December 14, 2025 • 8 mins
Clint got the opportunity to talk to Avatar director James Cameron ahead of the red carpet premiere of Avatar: Fire and Ash in Wellington, New Zealand. They talked about:
- The use of AI in cinema.
- Cliff Curtis' involvement in character designs.
- James Cameron's history with New Zealand.
- How he had the time to shoot the Billie Eilish documentary at the same time.
Avatar: Fire and Ash is in cinemas December 18 (New Zealand).
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
James Cameron. I was going to say, welcome to Wellington,
but actually I live here.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Where do you live? I live in Auckland.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Okay, welcome to Wellington, Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
The film is fantastic. Thank this week. And I thought
it was perfect.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
But I imagine that you are somewhat of a perfectionist with
these things. And I was interested in because it's out
there now, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
It's out of your hill. What was how late were.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
You able to make your final change to the film,
and and how close to submitting it was that change made?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Oh well, it's pride out of your called that fingers
basically is what happens. But right down to the very
last day before delivery, and when I washed it at
the premiere, I thought, dang, I should have I should
have mixed the music a little louder than that you
would there, right, Yeah, well I can still do it
for the video.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Oh okay, all right? Yeah for the DVD release.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Yeah, well, well there will be video. I mean it'll
eventually stream and all the other downstream stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Right.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
So yeah, when I saw it, there's a I don't
know if everybody will get the message from you before
for screens where you address the audience, and.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
You show how the live capture.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Work publicly, no publicly, strictly for press and media, so
that we have something to.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Is it okay to talk about it?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Absolutely, So it shows the live capture where and it's
quite incredible to see how, alongside the finished product, how
the actors emotions and faces are captured and translated.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
But you are also very clear about.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
The fact that there is no AI used in the
creation of that. Why is that important for you to
get across to people?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Historically on the previous two films, I've sort of hidden
the process. Yeah, and I did that on purpose because
I didn't want people to think, oh, it's people running
around and takes, you know what I mean, with a
little camera on their head, which is basically how it's done.
But I feel like it's now important that people understand
that it's not general of AI. It's actually done by
actors and it's a very meticulous and detailed process that
(01:56):
plays out over a period of months or even years.
And so this is all coming from human creation, from
human emotion.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Which I think people want right right now, and they
want to know that what they're watching is real and
what they're paying to see is real exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
It's like a provenance thing. You want that chain of
creation back to knowing that there's a human being behind it,
and when when something is filmed, for the most part,
you know that's that's a person, although these days it's
getting harder to know that for sure unless somebody you recognize. Yeah,
and so I just think that that that sort of
(02:32):
chain of creation, that chain of title back to real
human uh, real human artists, is critical.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I thought it was great and it really sort of
put the two together for me when I think, so
it was good.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I'm glad we're getting good feedback. But you can see
when Zoe does her thing or does way.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
It's explained to you, you can see it more.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yes, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So, yeah, that's great and I think if people can
say that, they should try and have a look at how.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
That is done as well.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I wanted to ask you why New Zealand because obviously
you could choose to live anywhere that you like, and
I imagine there are countries that would fight tooth and
now to have a production like this even made partly
in their country. Sure, why alter to New Zealand?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
For you?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Well, it's there's a lot of momentum to it because
I we came here on the first avatar and it
made sense with the rebate scheme and so on, and
it was a great experience. I love the crew. I
love the uh the artists, the artisanal artists that wet
a workshop for example, they created a lot of the
props and and uh, you know, set pieces for us.
(03:38):
I love working with the with the weather team. I
like just life here. I actually really like Wellington. It's like,
you know, Hurricanes fan. I'm not a sports guy, Phoenix
sports guy. I keep that. I keep that ram in
my brain available for the creative process. I I liked,
(04:00):
you know. I think what appealed to me here was
and I said this to my wife, Susie, It's like, honey,
we need to raise our kids in a place where
the values are a little more a little less materialistic,
and a little more based on on respect, which you know,
I'm not everybody in New Zealand is saintly obviously, but
(04:21):
there was a there was an overall value system here
that I appreciated, and I had first noticed it, by
the way, in nineteen ninety four, I came here on
my way to the South Pole. I came through christ
Church and I was flying to McMurdo and then up
to up to Pole from there and I thought, Wow,
this place is amazing, you know, not just not just
the scenery. Everybody goes for the scenery. It was amazing
(04:43):
at a kind of a human level.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
And I see your connection goes right back to the nineties.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Way back before Avatar. I made a promise to myself
that I was going to live here someday.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, well that's it.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yeah, it happened in fact, when Susie and I were
first getting serious. This is this is way back on
I think on Titanic, yeah, or after Titanic. Technically, I said,
you know, before we get too far, and so I
got to tell you I'm moving to New Zealand and
she was like okay. So I held her to that.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
God, I'm glad that it worked out. Let's not sport.
Then let's talk about New Zealand through the lens of film.
Who's your favorite Kiwi filmmaker.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Well, I'm very fond of Tiker's humor. Yes, I'm also
fond of the fact that he's very inclusive with indigenous culture,
like when he did reds Dogs and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
You know, you see a lot of the indigenous Sorry
to jump back to epotachtically, but yeah, there's a lot
of that reference in the film as well. It's a
lot of the motifs and that look definitely Pacific, but
almost Maui in there.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Sure. I think when I first came here it was interesting.
I wrote Avatar in ninety five. Yeah, I came here
in ninety four and I remembered a lot of the
Mari kind of word construction, and I, you know, cultural
appropriation was not a thing back then, so like, I'm
going to use some of these words and names and
(06:10):
not directly, not literally, but as an inspiration for the language.
And so then when we had to create a new language,
Paul Fromer, who was our linguist, came in on the
on the first film, and he started riffing on bits
of Native American syntax, bits of Polynesian pronunciation and syntax
and so on.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
A lot of it will look familiar to New Zealanders.
The tribal markings on cliff case obviously they're not Maudi,
but they.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
They're inspired by, as opposed to appropriated from. And I've
I've spent a lot of time talking to Cliff about this,
and I said, all right, at what point are we
honoring and celebrating and at what point are we taking something?
And he said, I can talk you through this, okay,
and he did. But you know, you know how I
(06:58):
got Cliff to be in the movie. I showed him
a picture of the character and with the with the
f full moco and everything, which was again just made up.
It was our own version of it. He said, I'm in.
I said, I said, do you want to read the script?
You said sure, but I'm in.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Is Clip your favorite? Kika?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Uh? He's the one I know the best and he
and I are close mates, So yeah, I would have
to say, yes.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
What's your favorite Kiwi film? O?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Tough One? Well, I quite like Cliffs the dark Horse.
I like The dead Lands, you know, I like the piano,
you know, I mean, I'm all over the place a
bad I've gotten gotten to be kind of mates with
with the you know Jane Campion and you know her
sensibility as well. It's just unique, you know. Kiwis are
(07:47):
just artistically highly unique.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Absolutely, it's idiosyncratic. Right. This is what Jenna I can
never do is be that idiosyncratic.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I can't even master.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Well, there's that I count.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, and we might even have time for one more question.
Are you a New Zealand citizen? Yes, you have citizenship?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Huh you do?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So you're you're one hundred percent of Oh my god,
I didn't even realize that.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
But the rest of my family is close behind me.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Last question before they kicked me out, my producer wanted
to ask, how did you find time to shoot the
Billie Eilish three D movie.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
And snuck away?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Do you ever a sleep?
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I just snuck away. I didn't even tell Disney that
I was doing it. I just snuck away for ten
days and went and shot it. Yeah, and we're still
doing it on time.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Well, congratulations on the film, James Cameron. People are going
to be blown away by this. I hope we're looking
forward to the big reg Habit premiere as well. No,
it's going to be wild Wellington.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, see if you ever have four.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Oh yeah, well we'll see, we'll see. I'm keeping my
options open.
James Cameron. I was going to say, welcome to Wellington,
but actually I live here.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Where do you live? I live in Auckland.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Okay, welcome to Wellington, Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
The film is fantastic. Thank this week. And I thought
it was perfect.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
But I imagine that you are somewhat of a perfectionist with
these things. And I was interested in because it's out
there now, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
It's out of your hill. What was how late were.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
You able to make your final change to the film,
and and how close to submitting it was that change made?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Oh well, it's pride out of your called that fingers
basically is what happens. But right down to the very
last day before delivery, and when I washed it at
the premiere, I thought, dang, I should have I should
have mixed the music a little louder than that you
would there, right, Yeah, well I can still do it
for the video.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Oh okay, all right? Yeah for the DVD release.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Yeah, well, well there will be video. I mean it'll
eventually stream and all the other downstream stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Right.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
So yeah, when I saw it, there's a I don't
know if everybody will get the message from you before
for screens where you address the audience, and.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
You show how the live capture.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Work publicly, no publicly, strictly for press and media, so
that we have something to.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Is it okay to talk about it?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Absolutely, So it shows the live capture where and it's
quite incredible to see how, alongside the finished product, how
the actors emotions and faces are captured and translated.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
But you are also very clear about.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
The fact that there is no AI used in the
creation of that. Why is that important for you to
get across to people?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Historically on the previous two films, I've sort of hidden
the process. Yeah, and I did that on purpose because
I didn't want people to think, oh, it's people running
around and takes, you know what I mean, with a
little camera on their head, which is basically how it's done.
But I feel like it's now important that people understand
that it's not general of AI. It's actually done by
actors and it's a very meticulous and detailed process that
(01:56):
plays out over a period of months or even years.
And so this is all coming from human creation, from
human emotion.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Which I think people want right right now, and they
want to know that what they're watching is real and
what they're paying to see is real exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
It's like a provenance thing. You want that chain of
creation back to knowing that there's a human being behind it,
and when when something is filmed, for the most part,
you know that's that's a person, although these days it's
getting harder to know that for sure unless somebody you recognize. Yeah,
and so I just think that that that sort of
(02:32):
chain of creation, that chain of title back to real
human uh, real human artists, is critical.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I thought it was great and it really sort of
put the two together for me when I think, so
it was good.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I'm glad we're getting good feedback. But you can see
when Zoe does her thing or does way.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
It's explained to you, you can see it more.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yes, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So, yeah, that's great and I think if people can
say that, they should try and have a look at how.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
That is done as well.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I wanted to ask you why New Zealand because obviously
you could choose to live anywhere that you like, and
I imagine there are countries that would fight tooth and
now to have a production like this even made partly
in their country. Sure, why alter to New Zealand?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
For you?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Well, it's there's a lot of momentum to it because
I we came here on the first avatar and it
made sense with the rebate scheme and so on, and
it was a great experience. I love the crew. I
love the uh the artists, the artisanal artists that wet
a workshop for example, they created a lot of the
props and and uh, you know, set pieces for us.
(03:38):
I love working with the with the weather team. I
like just life here. I actually really like Wellington. It's like,
you know, Hurricanes fan. I'm not a sports guy, Phoenix
sports guy. I keep that. I keep that ram in
my brain available for the creative process. I I liked,
(04:00):
you know. I think what appealed to me here was
and I said this to my wife, Susie, It's like, honey,
we need to raise our kids in a place where
the values are a little more a little less materialistic,
and a little more based on on respect, which you know,
I'm not everybody in New Zealand is saintly obviously, but
(04:21):
there was a there was an overall value system here
that I appreciated, and I had first noticed it, by
the way, in nineteen ninety four, I came here on
my way to the South Pole. I came through christ
Church and I was flying to McMurdo and then up
to up to Pole from there and I thought, Wow,
this place is amazing, you know, not just not just
the scenery. Everybody goes for the scenery. It was amazing
(04:43):
at a kind of a human level.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
And I see your connection goes right back to the nineties.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Way back before Avatar. I made a promise to myself
that I was going to live here someday.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, well that's it.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yeah, it happened in fact, when Susie and I were
first getting serious. This is this is way back on
I think on Titanic, yeah, or after Titanic. Technically, I said,
you know, before we get too far, and so I
got to tell you I'm moving to New Zealand and
she was like okay. So I held her to that.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
God, I'm glad that it worked out. Let's not sport.
Then let's talk about New Zealand through the lens of film.
Who's your favorite Kiwi filmmaker.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Well, I'm very fond of Tiker's humor. Yes, I'm also
fond of the fact that he's very inclusive with indigenous culture,
like when he did reds Dogs and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
You know, you see a lot of the indigenous Sorry
to jump back to epotachtically, but yeah, there's a lot
of that reference in the film as well. It's a
lot of the motifs and that look definitely Pacific, but
almost Maui in there.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Sure. I think when I first came here it was interesting.
I wrote Avatar in ninety five. Yeah, I came here
in ninety four and I remembered a lot of the
Mari kind of word construction, and I, you know, cultural
appropriation was not a thing back then, so like, I'm
going to use some of these words and names and
(06:10):
not directly, not literally, but as an inspiration for the language.
And so then when we had to create a new language,
Paul Fromer, who was our linguist, came in on the
on the first film, and he started riffing on bits
of Native American syntax, bits of Polynesian pronunciation and syntax
and so on.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
A lot of it will look familiar to New Zealanders.
The tribal markings on cliff case obviously they're not Maudi,
but they.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
They're inspired by, as opposed to appropriated from. And I've
I've spent a lot of time talking to Cliff about this,
and I said, all right, at what point are we
honoring and celebrating and at what point are we taking something?
And he said, I can talk you through this, okay,
and he did. But you know, you know how I
(06:58):
got Cliff to be in the movie. I showed him
a picture of the character and with the with the
f full moco and everything, which was again just made up.
It was our own version of it. He said, I'm in.
I said, I said, do you want to read the script?
You said sure, but I'm in.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Is Clip your favorite? Kika?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Uh? He's the one I know the best and he
and I are close mates, So yeah, I would have
to say, yes.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
What's your favorite Kiwi film? O?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Tough One? Well, I quite like Cliffs the dark Horse.
I like The dead Lands, you know, I like the piano,
you know, I mean, I'm all over the place a
bad I've gotten gotten to be kind of mates with
with the you know Jane Campion and you know her
sensibility as well. It's just unique, you know. Kiwis are
(07:47):
just artistically highly unique.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Absolutely, it's idiosyncratic. Right. This is what Jenna I can
never do is be that idiosyncratic.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I can't even master.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Well, there's that I count.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, and we might even have time for one more question.
Are you a New Zealand citizen? Yes, you have citizenship?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Huh you do?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So you're you're one hundred percent of Oh my god,
I didn't even realize that.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
But the rest of my family is close behind me.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Last question before they kicked me out, my producer wanted
to ask, how did you find time to shoot the
Billie Eilish three D movie.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
And snuck away?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Do you ever a sleep?
Speaker 3 (08:24):
I just snuck away. I didn't even tell Disney that
I was doing it. I just snuck away for ten
days and went and shot it. Yeah, and we're still
doing it on time.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Well, congratulations on the film, James Cameron. People are going
to be blown away by this. I hope we're looking
forward to the big reg Habit premiere as well. No,
it's going to be wild Wellington.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, see if you ever have four.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Oh yeah, well we'll see, we'll see. I'm keeping my
options open.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
The Brothers Ortiz
The Brothers Ortiz is the story of two brothers–both successful, but in very different ways. Gabe Ortiz becomes a third-highest ranking officer in all of Texas while his younger brother Larry climbs the ranks in Puro Tango Blast, a notorious Texas Prison gang. Gabe doesn’t know all the details of his brother’s nefarious dealings, and he’s made a point not to ask, to protect their relationship. But when Larry is murdered during a home invasion in a rented beach house, Gabe has no choice but to look into what happened that night. To solve Larry’s murder, Gabe, and the whole Ortiz family, must ask each other tough questions.