October 28, 2025 • 15 mins
Today on the pod we were lucky enough to talk to music legend Butch Vig! He told us about being the drummer for the band Garbage, and also chatted about producing Nirvana's "Nevermind".
Don't forget you can watch Garbage live at the Auckland Town Hall when they're here on December 3rd!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Good a. It's Jerry here from the Heidechy Breakfast, just
letting you know that if you're listening to the podcast
but didn't know that we also do a live radio show,
we do. And if you're wondering how to find out
what frequency to listen to us in your area, just
takes north or South as an Island to three four
eight three and we'll let you know. And now let's
get on with the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Let sandel.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Garbage are playing in Auckland on Wednesday, the third of
December at the Auckland Town Hall and Garbage found a
drummer and producer, a legendary Butcher Bak joins us.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
But where in the world are we talking to you today?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Well, good day, gentlemen. I'm in Salt Lake City in
the heartland of the United States. So we have four
shows to go in the US run and then we're
home for a few days.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Then we go to Mexico.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
The shows have been fantastic, but Sureley and I have
been battling the Lurgi for about three weeks, so the
shows have still been great, but it's it's hard to
when you get a sinus infection or a head cold.
Hard to get rid of on tour man.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Yeah, well, this is going to be. One of my
questions was how do you because you're playing so many
gigs even before you get over here, then there's international travel.
What do you do in between to make sure that
you can, you know, keep trucking on.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, and more sleep. I have to say,
the shows have been incredible on this run.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Part of that, I think is because Shirley's talking about
this on stage every night that this is probably one
of the, if not the last, sort of headline tour
we're going to do. So I think fans are coming
out because they want to see us do our own show.
We're not quitting touring, but I don't you know, we're
doing a forty show run and it's just it's quite
a slog. We've been out since September first, and it's
(01:54):
not the shows, it's just the travel just completely wears
you down. So every night it feels like in some
of the cities like it might be the last time
we play there. So the fans have just been fantastic,
and as I said, Shirley's been on fire every night.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
The shows have been excellent.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
But you have been incredibly successful in your music career.
You don't have to be touring if you don't want
to be touring. I imagine what keeps you playing and
what do you prefer doing. Do you prefer spending time
in the studio nowadays or you still get that kick
from being on stage.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I do get a kick from being on stage. You
get this adrenaline rush that you don't really get in
the studio. I mean that being said, I prefer being
in the studio. I've always been a studio rat.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Every day I walk in to.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Record, whether it's with a garbage or if I'm producing
someone else, something new happens or some detours happen, and
it's always unpredictable and I just love it. But playing
live is something I've been doing in band since I
was fifteen or sixteen years old, and I and I
still love that too. Like I said, there's this connection
(03:04):
with an audience that you can't get anywhere else. You
can't get it on a zoom call or on a
TV broadcaster in the recording studio, but it happens when
you're on stage in front of an audience, and it's
still very very addictive.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Yeah, I suppose it's that part of it. So obviously,
like you said, the travel wheezy down, but does the
gig itself actually throw you back up a bit?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Every night?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Sometimes a half hour before we go on, we're all like,
oh my god, how are we going to play a show?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
We're all dead tired.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
And then you walk out right, you know, right before
you go on, and you hear the roar of the
crowd and the adrenaline just goes goes through the roof
and we're on stage for an hour and forty five
minutes and it's just it's fantastic.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
I ask your question, You've probably been asked a million times,
and the answer is often with bands a little liss
then you think it's going to be what garbage? Why
did you name the band garbage?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Well? I used to tell this story, you know, when
we are the band.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
We looked in the book of rock names and there
were only two names left Hoody and the Blowfish and
Garbage and Garbage.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
But we need to be finished playing. You're obviously on
a high. Are you a drinker? Hew? Do you wind down?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Ah?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I mean, you know, I like to drink wine, particularly
so many blocs that's been sort of my go to
jam after shows.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
But it's hard, man.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
The adrenaline stays with you for two or three hours,
and at least on this run, we pretty much get
on the tour bus around midnight and we drive to
the next city, and I'm usually sitting up, sometimes watching
a movie or listening to music until two or three
in the morning until I can fall asleep.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
So and it's it's that way for a lot of people.
Surely is the same way. She's all wound up and
can't sleep, so we're we're very sleep deprived. That's what
happens when you go on tour.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Yea plenty of good wine over here, but I think
you're gonna appreciate it. Do you travel around much when
you're on the road or is it basically just off
to the next gig. Do you get to say much
of the places you're in.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
On a day off?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
We do, you know, We're we're all foodies in this band,
so we try to find great restaurants to go to,
whether it's for lunch or dinner. I walked around today
and went to a museum, stopped in there for like
an hour, and looked around in Salt Lake.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
It's a beautiful city.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
But some days I have plans to do that right,
and then you wake up in a hotel room and
just you just lay there. I turn on CNN and
I just veg you out for a couple hours until
we have to get up and go to sound check.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Butch, obviously you produced one of the greatest albums of
all time. There's no doubt about that. Never Mind. When
was the last time you sit down and put it
on and listen to it? And it's entirety.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
I don't really put the album on unless I'm listening
to a new test pressing of a mass Dream or
some of the box sets that Nirvana have released over
the years.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I'm involved with that in.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
The in the in the the sound and the final
selection of the songs as the producer. But I hear
it all the time on the radio and clubs, people
walking down the street.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
It's, you know, never Mind Us everywhere.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
It's one of those records that just has infiltrated the
universe in a good way, and everywhere I go. I
was in line getting a coffee this morning, there was
some girl with a Nevermind T shirt.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I'm standing in front of me, and I wanted to say,
do you know that I produced that RecA? But I didn't.
I did, but I was not.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
I was not awake enough to actually get into a conversation.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Is it any of that you hid in the sipmarket
or anyway that annoys you? Is there anything that would
you change now?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Well?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
No, I mean that the one thing that is sort
of annoying. If we uh go to a club, if
we sometimes after a show or whatever, we'll go to
a bar, right and if the manager whatever recognizes me,
sometimes they put Nevermind on because they think I want
to hear it and I don't really want to. Or
(07:15):
they'll put Garbage on too, and so it's like and
then I feel self conscious, you know, because.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Okay, they know I'm here, they're playing the record. But
at this point, I mean, it's all it's all good.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
That the record changed my life, and I wouldn't have
been able to start Garbage if I hadn't had this
success with never Mind, So it's all it's all good, karma.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
I was writing a thing that apparently some of the
people in the band was saying that it was maybe
recorded or produced too well, like too slick?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Was that a thing that was bullshit. They had to
say that after they sold twenty million records. When we
finished their record, they were over the moon. They couldn't
believe how fantastic it sound. If you listen to it,
it's not overproduced at all. It's bass drums, a couple
double track guitars, Kurt's vocals double tracked. It's raw. It's
(08:09):
very very raw recorded basically live. It sounds city. But
as a punk band, if you sell twenty million records,
you can't say, oh man, I'm so happy we've had
this success. You have to disown it. And that's what
they did. They had to disown never mind. At the time, did.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
You know you were making one of the greatest albums
of all time at the time.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
No, I mean I knew that the band was really
tight and focused. I knew I was capturing great performances
and the songs were just super hooky. But at the
time we thought, maybe this will be as big as
a Pixies record, you know, sell five hundred thousand copies,
because we're all huge Pixies fans, and I think it's
so like, in two weeks it sold five hundred thousand copies,
(08:50):
So it kind of it just completely blew away all
of our expectations.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
It's city four years old, and it's quite remarkable to
think that. You know, in two thousand and one, Mountain
Sergeant Pippers would have been thirty four years old. In
two thousand and one and never Mind's thirty four years old.
Does that weed you out?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
It's weird because it doesn't feel that long ago to me.
Time sort of gets weirdly compressed to me. In the
studio and touring, everything kind of runs together. It's all
about making music, whether it's recording my own stuff or
producing someone else. So it's very bizarre. I don't seem
to have a realistic aspect of how time has passed,
(09:36):
so everything seems closer to me than as distant as
it actually is. It's very strange. I'm not sure why
that is.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
That's sort of all happening at the same time. How
did the life change after that album come out?
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Well, I went back to Madison, and the first thing
that happened is I started getting calls from all the
labels and in r people who wanted me to produce
a band. You know, they thought that I had some
magic button or some magic potion I could inject into
a band and they would be as big as Nirvana,
and of course there was only one Nirvana. But it
was great because it opened up a lot of doors
(10:14):
for me. And I just mentioned this before. At the
point I did Nevermind in Siamese Dream in Sonic Youth,
I had done so many rock records and punk rock records.
I was getting burned out in that. I was tired
of guitar, bass and drums, and that's why I started Garbage.
And I would not have been able to start Garbage
if I hadn't had that success with never Mind.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
That's interesting because I've met Sally before. She's Scottish. Everyone
else is American. How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, very strange. You know, we started Garbage.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
The idea of Garbage just do conceive in me working
on music and sort of using the approach that I
did on these remixes that I did with Beck and
Nine Inch Nails and you two, where we incorporated a
lot of different rhythms and electronic and beats and chopped
up guitars and things. That was sort of the template
for our sound. But we didn't have a singer. And
(11:08):
then Shirley saw Angelfish on on MTV's one hundred and
twenty Minutes on Sunday night, and he happened to tape
the show on his VHS, you know, his DVR, and
brought it in the next day and said, I think
this singer could be good. We should see if she'd
be interested in doing a track with us. And we
listened to the song, which is called Suffocate Me, and
(11:30):
what I loved about it is that she sang it
really low and understated, unlike a lot of the alternative
singers at the time who were really emo, really screaming,
singing hard, really pushing their vocals. Surely did the opposite,
and that's why we called her.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
You would with so many people, butcher of the year's
amazing legends of music in the studio, tell me, who
is there anyone who's really stood out to you?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Oh man, I'm so lucky.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I've worked with incredibly talented artists and musicians. I mean,
Kurt was obviously an incredibly talented songwriter, you know, very conflicted,
you know, had these terrible mood swings, but he had
so much talent.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
He was just like he was a.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Natural melodicist, much like someone like Paul McCartney. I really
hit it off with Billy Corgan as difficult as Billy
could be. You know, we both respected each other a lot,
and we pushed each other hard. I pushed him really
hard and he pushed me right back. And we set
the bar really high when we went into record Siame's Dream,
(12:38):
and that was probably one of the hardest records I
ever made. But I'm really I think it turned out fantastic.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
How do you decide the SAT list on a Garbage tour?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Good question.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Usually we let Shirley kind of pick what she wants
to sing.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
I mean, we all have input into it.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
But on the recent tour, in fact, there are recent tours,
we're trying to play songs in this set. You know,
a lot of our singles that have been on the radio,
like Cherry e Lips and only Happy When It Rains.
But she's also trying to pick songs that lyrically are
saying something right now that the world is pretty crazy
(13:19):
at the moment. It's very crazy here in the United
States and it is everywhere actually, So she tries to
pick songs lyrically that I think make people think, like
a song like Cherry Ellipse or a song like bleed
like me. The trick is to keep breathing that have
something to say that can resonate with people sort of
(13:43):
on a personal level, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Well, we're looking forward to seeing when you come to
New Zealand. You're playing at the Auckland Town Hall, which
is a cool venue. Some people say it's got some
of the best acoustics of any music hall in the world.
People like a lot of classical musicians liking it to
the music Varian and v inn It's that square, kind
of rectangular box vibe. So really looking forward to you
guys coming down here. Thanks so much, but it's been
(14:06):
a great pleasure.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to haven't been in New Zealand
since pre COVID and I'm coming down there with my
wife who's never been to New Zealand. And we're getting
there a couple of days early so we can just
sort of travel around.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
We're going to go to some wineries and things.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
And my favorite wine in the entire world is the
Kiwi wine.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Gray Wacky saw Many in blanc.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
The Kevin Judd. Kevin Judd is the winemaker.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Years ago he was at Cloudy Bay, which is like
the first sort of Sawny and Blanc I discovered.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
And I invited Kevin and his crew or they're.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Coming to the show, so I'm hoping we'll be hoisting
a glass of Gray Wacky before we take the stage.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Oh you're a good man, Butch, and thanks so much
for your time this morning, and best of luck with everything,
good luck with the rest of the tur and look
forward to seeing you.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
In New Zealand. Cool. Thanks guys.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Happy when it rains, I'm only happy when it complicated.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
I know, I know you can't appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I'm only happy whin it ras
Good a. It's Jerry here from the Heidechy Breakfast, just
letting you know that if you're listening to the podcast
but didn't know that we also do a live radio show,
we do. And if you're wondering how to find out
what frequency to listen to us in your area, just
takes north or South as an Island to three four
eight three and we'll let you know. And now let's
get on with the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Let sandel.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Garbage are playing in Auckland on Wednesday, the third of
December at the Auckland Town Hall and Garbage found a
drummer and producer, a legendary Butcher Bak joins us.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
But where in the world are we talking to you today?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Well, good day, gentlemen. I'm in Salt Lake City in
the heartland of the United States. So we have four
shows to go in the US run and then we're
home for a few days.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Then we go to Mexico.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
The shows have been fantastic, but Sureley and I have
been battling the Lurgi for about three weeks, so the
shows have still been great, but it's it's hard to
when you get a sinus infection or a head cold.
Hard to get rid of on tour man.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Yeah, well, this is going to be. One of my
questions was how do you because you're playing so many
gigs even before you get over here, then there's international travel.
What do you do in between to make sure that
you can, you know, keep trucking on.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, and more sleep. I have to say,
the shows have been incredible on this run.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Part of that, I think is because Shirley's talking about
this on stage every night that this is probably one
of the, if not the last, sort of headline tour
we're going to do. So I think fans are coming
out because they want to see us do our own show.
We're not quitting touring, but I don't you know, we're
doing a forty show run and it's just it's quite
a slog. We've been out since September first, and it's
(01:54):
not the shows, it's just the travel just completely wears
you down. So every night it feels like in some
of the cities like it might be the last time
we play there. So the fans have just been fantastic,
and as I said, Shirley's been on fire every night.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
The shows have been excellent.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
But you have been incredibly successful in your music career.
You don't have to be touring if you don't want
to be touring. I imagine what keeps you playing and
what do you prefer doing. Do you prefer spending time
in the studio nowadays or you still get that kick
from being on stage.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I do get a kick from being on stage. You
get this adrenaline rush that you don't really get in
the studio. I mean that being said, I prefer being
in the studio. I've always been a studio rat.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Every day I walk in to.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Record, whether it's with a garbage or if I'm producing
someone else, something new happens or some detours happen, and
it's always unpredictable and I just love it. But playing
live is something I've been doing in band since I
was fifteen or sixteen years old, and I and I
still love that too. Like I said, there's this connection
(03:04):
with an audience that you can't get anywhere else. You
can't get it on a zoom call or on a
TV broadcaster in the recording studio, but it happens when
you're on stage in front of an audience, and it's
still very very addictive.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Yeah, I suppose it's that part of it. So obviously,
like you said, the travel wheezy down, but does the
gig itself actually throw you back up a bit?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Every night?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Sometimes a half hour before we go on, we're all like,
oh my god, how are we going to play a show?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
We're all dead tired.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
And then you walk out right, you know, right before
you go on, and you hear the roar of the
crowd and the adrenaline just goes goes through the roof
and we're on stage for an hour and forty five
minutes and it's just it's fantastic.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
I ask your question, You've probably been asked a million times,
and the answer is often with bands a little liss
then you think it's going to be what garbage? Why
did you name the band garbage?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Well? I used to tell this story, you know, when
we are the band.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
We looked in the book of rock names and there
were only two names left Hoody and the Blowfish and
Garbage and Garbage.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
But we need to be finished playing. You're obviously on
a high. Are you a drinker? Hew? Do you wind down?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Ah?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I mean, you know, I like to drink wine, particularly
so many blocs that's been sort of my go to
jam after shows.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
But it's hard, man.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
The adrenaline stays with you for two or three hours,
and at least on this run, we pretty much get
on the tour bus around midnight and we drive to
the next city, and I'm usually sitting up, sometimes watching
a movie or listening to music until two or three
in the morning until I can fall asleep.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
So and it's it's that way for a lot of people.
Surely is the same way. She's all wound up and
can't sleep, so we're we're very sleep deprived. That's what
happens when you go on tour.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Yea plenty of good wine over here, but I think
you're gonna appreciate it. Do you travel around much when
you're on the road or is it basically just off
to the next gig. Do you get to say much
of the places you're in.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
On a day off?
Speaker 3 (05:15):
We do, you know, We're we're all foodies in this band,
so we try to find great restaurants to go to,
whether it's for lunch or dinner. I walked around today
and went to a museum, stopped in there for like
an hour, and looked around in Salt Lake.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
It's a beautiful city.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
But some days I have plans to do that right,
and then you wake up in a hotel room and
just you just lay there. I turn on CNN and
I just veg you out for a couple hours until
we have to get up and go to sound check.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Butch, obviously you produced one of the greatest albums of
all time. There's no doubt about that. Never Mind. When
was the last time you sit down and put it
on and listen to it? And it's entirety.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
I don't really put the album on unless I'm listening
to a new test pressing of a mass Dream or
some of the box sets that Nirvana have released over
the years.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I'm involved with that in.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
The in the in the the sound and the final
selection of the songs as the producer. But I hear
it all the time on the radio and clubs, people
walking down the street.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
It's, you know, never Mind Us everywhere.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
It's one of those records that just has infiltrated the
universe in a good way, and everywhere I go. I
was in line getting a coffee this morning, there was
some girl with a Nevermind T shirt.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I'm standing in front of me, and I wanted to say,
do you know that I produced that RecA? But I didn't.
I did, but I was not.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
I was not awake enough to actually get into a conversation.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Is it any of that you hid in the sipmarket
or anyway that annoys you? Is there anything that would
you change now?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Well?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
No, I mean that the one thing that is sort
of annoying. If we uh go to a club, if
we sometimes after a show or whatever, we'll go to
a bar, right and if the manager whatever recognizes me,
sometimes they put Nevermind on because they think I want
to hear it and I don't really want to. Or
(07:15):
they'll put Garbage on too, and so it's like and
then I feel self conscious, you know, because.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Okay, they know I'm here, they're playing the record. But
at this point, I mean, it's all it's all good.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
That the record changed my life, and I wouldn't have
been able to start Garbage if I hadn't had this
success with never Mind, So it's all it's all good, karma.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
I was writing a thing that apparently some of the
people in the band was saying that it was maybe
recorded or produced too well, like too slick?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Was that a thing that was bullshit. They had to
say that after they sold twenty million records. When we
finished their record, they were over the moon. They couldn't
believe how fantastic it sound. If you listen to it,
it's not overproduced at all. It's bass drums, a couple
double track guitars, Kurt's vocals double tracked. It's raw. It's
(08:09):
very very raw recorded basically live. It sounds city. But
as a punk band, if you sell twenty million records,
you can't say, oh man, I'm so happy we've had
this success. You have to disown it. And that's what
they did. They had to disown never mind. At the time, did.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
You know you were making one of the greatest albums
of all time at the time.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
No, I mean I knew that the band was really
tight and focused. I knew I was capturing great performances
and the songs were just super hooky. But at the
time we thought, maybe this will be as big as
a Pixies record, you know, sell five hundred thousand copies,
because we're all huge Pixies fans, and I think it's
so like, in two weeks it sold five hundred thousand copies,
(08:50):
So it kind of it just completely blew away all
of our expectations.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
It's city four years old, and it's quite remarkable to
think that. You know, in two thousand and one, Mountain
Sergeant Pippers would have been thirty four years old. In
two thousand and one and never Mind's thirty four years old.
Does that weed you out?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
It's weird because it doesn't feel that long ago to me.
Time sort of gets weirdly compressed to me. In the
studio and touring, everything kind of runs together. It's all
about making music, whether it's recording my own stuff or
producing someone else. So it's very bizarre. I don't seem
to have a realistic aspect of how time has passed,
(09:36):
so everything seems closer to me than as distant as
it actually is. It's very strange. I'm not sure why
that is.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
That's sort of all happening at the same time. How
did the life change after that album come out?
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Well, I went back to Madison, and the first thing
that happened is I started getting calls from all the
labels and in r people who wanted me to produce
a band. You know, they thought that I had some
magic button or some magic potion I could inject into
a band and they would be as big as Nirvana,
and of course there was only one Nirvana. But it
was great because it opened up a lot of doors
(10:14):
for me. And I just mentioned this before. At the
point I did Nevermind in Siamese Dream in Sonic Youth,
I had done so many rock records and punk rock records.
I was getting burned out in that. I was tired
of guitar, bass and drums, and that's why I started Garbage.
And I would not have been able to start Garbage
if I hadn't had that success with never Mind.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
That's interesting because I've met Sally before. She's Scottish. Everyone
else is American. How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, very strange. You know, we started Garbage.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
The idea of Garbage just do conceive in me working
on music and sort of using the approach that I
did on these remixes that I did with Beck and
Nine Inch Nails and you two, where we incorporated a
lot of different rhythms and electronic and beats and chopped
up guitars and things. That was sort of the template
for our sound. But we didn't have a singer. And
(11:08):
then Shirley saw Angelfish on on MTV's one hundred and
twenty Minutes on Sunday night, and he happened to tape
the show on his VHS, you know, his DVR, and
brought it in the next day and said, I think
this singer could be good. We should see if she'd
be interested in doing a track with us. And we
listened to the song, which is called Suffocate Me, and
(11:30):
what I loved about it is that she sang it
really low and understated, unlike a lot of the alternative
singers at the time who were really emo, really screaming,
singing hard, really pushing their vocals. Surely did the opposite,
and that's why we called her.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
You would with so many people, butcher of the year's
amazing legends of music in the studio, tell me, who
is there anyone who's really stood out to you?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Oh man, I'm so lucky.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I've worked with incredibly talented artists and musicians. I mean,
Kurt was obviously an incredibly talented songwriter, you know, very conflicted,
you know, had these terrible mood swings, but he had
so much talent.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
He was just like he was a.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Natural melodicist, much like someone like Paul McCartney. I really
hit it off with Billy Corgan as difficult as Billy
could be. You know, we both respected each other a lot,
and we pushed each other hard. I pushed him really
hard and he pushed me right back. And we set
the bar really high when we went into record Siame's Dream,
(12:38):
and that was probably one of the hardest records I
ever made. But I'm really I think it turned out fantastic.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
How do you decide the SAT list on a Garbage tour?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Good question.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Usually we let Shirley kind of pick what she wants
to sing.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
I mean, we all have input into it.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
But on the recent tour, in fact, there are recent tours,
we're trying to play songs in this set. You know,
a lot of our singles that have been on the radio,
like Cherry e Lips and only Happy When It Rains.
But she's also trying to pick songs that lyrically are
saying something right now that the world is pretty crazy
(13:19):
at the moment. It's very crazy here in the United
States and it is everywhere actually, So she tries to
pick songs lyrically that I think make people think, like
a song like Cherry Ellipse or a song like bleed
like me. The trick is to keep breathing that have
something to say that can resonate with people sort of
(13:43):
on a personal level, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Well, we're looking forward to seeing when you come to
New Zealand. You're playing at the Auckland Town Hall, which
is a cool venue. Some people say it's got some
of the best acoustics of any music hall in the world.
People like a lot of classical musicians liking it to
the music Varian and v inn It's that square, kind
of rectangular box vibe. So really looking forward to you
guys coming down here. Thanks so much, but it's been
(14:06):
a great pleasure.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to haven't been in New Zealand
since pre COVID and I'm coming down there with my
wife who's never been to New Zealand. And we're getting
there a couple of days early so we can just
sort of travel around.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
We're going to go to some wineries and things.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
And my favorite wine in the entire world is the
Kiwi wine.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Gray Wacky saw Many in blanc.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
The Kevin Judd. Kevin Judd is the winemaker.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Years ago he was at Cloudy Bay, which is like
the first sort of Sawny and Blanc I discovered.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
And I invited Kevin and his crew or they're.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Coming to the show, so I'm hoping we'll be hoisting
a glass of Gray Wacky before we take the stage.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Oh you're a good man, Butch, and thanks so much
for your time this morning, and best of luck with everything,
good luck with the rest of the tur and look
forward to seeing you.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
In New Zealand. Cool. Thanks guys.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Happy when it rains, I'm only happy when it complicated.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
I know, I know you can't appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I'm only happy whin it ras
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.