Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning, Welcome to Life Happens. Are you prepared?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
This is our weekly radio program where we address the
challenges we all face as we age. We talk about
aging as a lifestyle, the issues that must be confronted,
and the careful planning that's required to avoid crises in
the future. Life Happens will provide you with tools to
prepare yourself for events like retirement, protecting your income and assets,
planning to pay for nursing home or home care, special needs,
(00:24):
Wilson trusts, and planning for an untimely death.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Maybe even resolving.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Disputes outside of court, certainly inside of court. A Aaron
Connor from Pierre Connor and Strauss, joined by Frank Hemming
hi erin, Hello, Frank.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, it's been a little while. It has, shockingly, I'm
really glad you asked me to come on and talk
about the Knicks championship. Yes, the first championship they've had
since the seventies.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
They're not hanging a banner.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I read.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
No, I did see that. I think they're right to
do that.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I agree, but I was like thinking there's a chance
they might because it it's been this long.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well, you know, as a Yankees fan, when I see
the teams like hanging twenty thirteen wild card qualifier, so.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Like my team, yeah they do that.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I don't know, but I see stuff like that, and
I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Man, we don't have enough room for our championship, like
the actual championship.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Pennetts Championships only for ya Yankees.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
No, no, no, not that the you know, most recent years
have been great. Sure, that's where we're at. Yeah, No,
I think that's probably the right move. But I had
to had to throw that out there. Sure, because it's
been it's been a long time since they had even
the ability to think about whether they wanted to hang
a banner or not.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
That's true, you know, and the Mets are just becoming
I think the Kansas City A's, and that they're just
taking all the Yankee cast sauce right now. So I
mean that that's probably too far back for you to
know anything about it.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
No, but I get the reference. But I wouldn't have faded.
But I do know what you mean. Yeah, it was a.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Time when the A's were forbidden for trading with the
like a period like I think it was two years.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, like no more trades. Your trades are so bad.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah, well I'm gonna I'm gonna put my rose coloid
glasses on and say, you know, Clay Holmes has been
pretty good for us. Uh, Severino turned out to be
very good for us. So so maybe Devin Williams and
Luke Weaver will be will be fine for us. But uh,
if they're not, I'm sure I'm going to be hearing
about it. So it is what it.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Is, that's right.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
And I just want to say, Merry Christmas and happy
holidays to everyone, right, certainly if you celebrate Christmas, Merry Christmas,
Happy Hanukah, Happy Kwanza, happy Festivus, any anything else.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
That I may have missed, Yeah, to say, we're not
trying to play favorites if there's something we've missed, obviously,
happy holidays and best wishes to everyone listening to you,
your family and everyone in your life.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Right, and we will not be airing our grievances today, So.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
No Festivus today, right, So I have to tear this up.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, sorry, Frank, it's.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Fine, but you know we're all maybe as I shouldn't
say we all, like there's two men on this radio show,
so we may have not have purchased everything.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
We may have needed to have purchased. We may have,
we may not have.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I've been pretty good shape. Yeah, I always feel like
there's always more that I could have gotten or I've
gotten or whatever. But I think if you know, being
objective about it as much as I can, I think
I'm pretty good shape.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah. I'm not the guy who goes out on Christmas Eve.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
No, my dad was that guy. I mean, not for
a lot. He would always go get one or two
last things. I think I think like either his grandmother
or someone in the family farther back than like I
know kind of I think did that with him, and
I think it stuck with him throughout throughout the rest
of his life because I think he always would make
a thing of like I have to run out and
get something.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well, to be fair, it was also a time where
you just couldn't order everything well. Yeah, I mean I
wouldn't go on your phone and Amazon, you know. Yeah,
ire in two days.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Shout out to Jeff Bezos, You're welcome. Like, the fact
that you have such a good balance in your bank
account is partially because there's constant Amazon packages that at
my house just about every day, it seems like, so you're.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Welcome, so hopefully everybody's in good shape. But there are.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Gifts you can really give your people that aren't necessarily
gifts that they would think of.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Funerals, funerals, funerals, funerals, well, paying for funerals, Yeah, not
the gift of a funeral that that might be a crime.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yes, you would need a different type.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Of LA can't advise you to do that, yes, but
no prepaying funerals, that's what I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Sure that is certainly I wasn't going to start at
the end, but we can address that for sure. You know,
in my personal experience, after my grandfather died, my grandmother
pre planned her funeral, which made everything easier for everybody.
We knew what she wanted, right, It wasn't a debate
of whether this is what she wanted or not. There
(04:46):
wasn't a worry, which there can sometimes be, of who's
going to pay for it because they can't access her funds.
And you know, frankly, if you're grieving, the last thing
you want.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
To do is really deal with those details.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So having it done at a time, yeah, just from
a family standpoint, is a great gift.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yeah, and if if, if there's somebody else who's more
uh cost cost conscience in your life, you can lock
in that price, like I've had I've had other people
tell me that, like, you know, they'd rather get it
at today's price rather than ten years from now this
price or like whatever. So I don't think that's usually
the reason people do it, but there is maybe some
(05:24):
savings built into looking ahead, if you want to look
at it that way.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Well, in that regard, what I see is that people
who really there are don't get me wrong, there are
people who have an interest in science and may donate
their body for that purpose. But there certainly have been
people that do it because the cremation thereafter is free.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Yeah. So like if like the common one around this
area is albany Med, Right, so if you donate your
body to albany Med, typically they'll like, when they're done
doing whatever they're going to do, right, they will help
pay for the cremation and get the ashes returned to
the family or interred or whatever it is that's supposed
to happen with as far as I understand it.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, that's so. It happened with my great uncle. And
you know, I think six or eight months later, they
they got an urn and then they had some kind
of like graveside service or something. I'm personally, I know
people do this. I don't understand the cremation and then burial.
I feel like, if you're cremated, why I take up
the space?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
But hey, yeah you do you?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah, your choice is yours.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Sorry, not to not to make light of this, but
I just I had it in my head of do
they do they tell you that they're sending the ashes
in advance or like do you just go out to
the mailbox one day? And it's just.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So this was several years ago, but I'm sure that
there was a notification of something.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I'm sure there is. That's what I mean, Like this
is this is probably just being you know me in
my head, but.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
No understood what I mean.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
We've had stories of people finding like the box of
cremated yeah, or cremaines I guess they're called right in
a house where you know, and then having to deal
with it. Yes, So I'm I mean, unfortunately, we have
dealt with a lot of people in bad situations, right,
and we've just seen a lot of things that you
would think probably would never happen.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
But well, since we're on the subject, I always love
telling this story when we're doing seminars and things, and
I probably have said it on the radio because I've
been on the show enough. But like we have had
times like where people have passed right about now between
the holidays, and at least in the past, Albany med
when they went to make the donation, they were not
there to take them, so they were not going to
(07:31):
receive the bequest of the body for scientific purposes. So
the family had to then regroup and figure out what
Plan B was going to be because Plan A didn't
work or it wasn't possible.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Right, And that reason is that they are closed between
Christmas and New Year's. Yeah, so I always tell people
to please die accordingly.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yes, if you stuff to you, yes, yes, yeah. I
always generally tell people like, just come up with a
backup plan just in case, you know that maybe you
want to communicate to your family, just in case they
have that anario where your your plan, your you know
your a plan doesn't work that way, they don't have
to figure out what you would have wanted. You've already
given some direction to that.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
If you have a Dora you've taken care of.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So the other thing that this makes me think of
is the situation where from Medicaid perspective, right, yep, So
prepaying your funeral is an exempt.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Resource if it's irrevocable.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Correct, Okay, guess what everybody's going to pass away eventually.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Right, So depends to you, Well, depends what you ask,
if you ask the clients understood, But yes.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So you know, making it irrevocable isn't all that scary?
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Yeah, I guess. I don't think I've ever heard of
somebody that I've been working with, obviously in a non
medicaid context, that had a revocable arrangement that actually revoked it. Right,
I'm sure. I'm sure it's happened.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Sure it's happened.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
That's I mean, I'm just I'm not familiar with I think,
any cases where it has right.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
So, but so a lot of people made the mistake
that they don't have that in place ahead of time,
so they get down to their Medicaid asset limit or
below it, right, and then there isn't this money to
pay a funeral, right, I mean, so if you do
it correctly, you would pay this first and then still
(09:17):
keep your thirty plus thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, that's obviosually one of the reasons why, I think,
as strange as it sounds, that's why sometimes we advise
people not to prepay their arrangements, just to kind of
maybe figure out what they would want and maybe even
get it price quoted, just so they have an idea
as to the level of expense. But then if Medicaid
becomes necessary, if you have slightly more than your allowance,
(09:40):
then you can prepay the burial, the funeral, and the
other arrangements. That's a find transaction for Medicaid purposes, as
Aaron said, and then it gets you down below your
asset limit. You've now taken care of your arrangements, you
don't have to worry about where the money's coming from,
and then you're down below your Medicaid limit. So it
works really well in that context. People would rather just
(10:01):
get it taken care of upfront when they're healthy, just
because it's one less thing to worry about and that stuff,
and both scenarios are fine to work with generally on us.
It's just sometimes we will actually advise someone not to
do that until later.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Correct, you know, and some quirky things about that. Right,
there's no limit yep currently Right, some point in time,
I'm sure someone's gonna test that and it's gonna be
like Noboddy, sorry, we cannot shoot you into space as
an exact resource rights.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
But he puts seventy five thousand dollars in that burial arrangement,
that is that is something intense.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah, and maybe this goes along with the theme of
the gift of planning. Yeah, we've also had parents prepay
for children's burials.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yeah, that's It's always an interesting conversation to have because
I always try to put it this way. When we're
talking to families. Sometimes the advice we're giving sounds a
little strange, right, or you know, maybe not what you
were expressing. But a lot of it's just because when
you're sitting in the planning chair, we're not looking at
(11:11):
this the same way as family members are. Right, we
have to kind of look at it from a legal perspective,
from a monetary perspective, from a financial perspective. So you know,
to us, if you're going to put call it, fifteen
thousand dollars at risk by not doing anything in some ways,
like it makes more financial sense to spend some of
(11:34):
that money towards burial and funeral arrangements for family members
and things, because someone is deriving the benefit from that
rather than it just going to the nursing home or
going to the county or wherever it's supposed to go.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Ultimately, our job is to get you the most value
for what you have.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Right, And I think most people would agree that while
it may not have been the expense they thought they'd
be making, they'd rather do that than give it to
the count or give it to the nursing home or
give it to taxes or whatever. The advice is going against.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Exactly, So it may sound strange in the abstract, and
I try to tell people all the time to suspend
logic and you.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Know, get ready for disbelief.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
It's very wise advice, honestly, because a lot of it
doesn't really make a lot of sense or certainly logical sense.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
And again, our job is to guide you through the labyrinth, right,
because that's really what it is, planning labyrinth, the medicaid labyrinth, right,
whatever byzantine structure you want.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
To be well, I mean just to just to kind
of just use a you know, just use a kind
of a real life example. I went and I did
a seminar for a group of financial advisors earlier this week.
So they went to school for finance, I'm assuming, or
at least a related field, right, they are actively managing
people and their money and giving recommendations on how to
handle finances and doing some math right in math, all
(13:00):
the fun stuff. And I went in and I kind
of did a kind of like a hybrid seminar, if
you will, where we talked some about planning and the
things we talk a lot about on the show, and
then we did a pivot and then we talked about
what trust planning would look like for a married couple,
whether we use a revocable trust or near avocable trust.
And in my opinion, we didn't really get into the
(13:21):
weeds that much. But by the end you could see
that the wheels were turning and the heads were spending
a little bit of just there's a lot to digest
and there's a lot to take in, and it certainly
can get much more detailed and difficult to follow, you know,
if you want to ratchet that up. And that's going
to be the subject of another seminar, right, But it
wasn't that one or even the people that do this
(13:43):
for a living have sometimes hard time following everything absolutely well.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I think that's a good place to take a break,
because I think the next thing we want to do
is talk about the gift of planning. Sure, all right,
So this is Life Happens Radio. I'm Aaron Connor from
Pure O'Connor and Strauss, and we'll be back right after
the break. Welcome back to Life Happens Radio, brought to
you by Pierre O'Connor and Strauss. I'm Aaron Connor, joined
by Frank Hemmick. Still here, and we are discussing the
(14:09):
gift of planning since the holidays are upon us. If
you did not know that, no, you know, let your
panic set in. We'll give you a minute to get
a deep breath. Maybe need to get a paper bag,
but you may want to address some things.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
For that, just an idea, Ye, just.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Thrown it out there.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
One thing we often do see at this time, though,
is it's a time where families gather and a lot
of people now are spread all across the country or world.
Even we have several clients whose kids don't even live
in this country.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Yeah, I just I'm going to get the locations wrong.
But I just met with a mother and her son
and he's an only child and he has two kids,
and I think one is in Scotland or Ireland and
the other ones in Japan, if I'm remembering correctly. Yeah,
And I was like, man, right, either that's a long
trip home for the holidays or they're just they're just
(15:08):
not coming this year.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Right, So yes, I do remember.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I think one was like Morocco and Switzerland or something
like that, or Austria.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So maybe you don't see each other in person as much, right, yep.
And FaceTime is great or zoom or whatever other video call, right,
but in person you may see some things that you
can't cover up on a half hour phone call.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Yeah, I am. I can speak a little bit to this.
I mean, it was a long time ago now, but
when I was away at college, my dad was going
through cancer treatments and stuff. And I would talk to
my parents just about probably every day, or certainly every
two or three for sure, And there was a week
and there was a big difference sometimes when I would
(15:55):
go away and when I would come home a few
weeks or a few months later. And sure, and see
kind of what home was looking like for sure. Yeah,
And I wasn't far away, you know. I was only
an hour and a half away, which I hadn't been
home in a while, but I wasn't far.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Right, So yeah, that's that's important to know. And it's
really true because I've seen so many people mask for
short periods of time, maybe even a whole day. Yeah, right,
if they know what's coming, you'd be surprised with someone
(16:27):
with waning capacity or waning physical ability can can kind
of buck up to do. I don't know how it
was to say, yeah, no, I again, I my kids
can't buck up.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Well, I think I've said on the show. Look, I
lost both my grandparents in the past few months, and
a few months ago I was on the phone with
my grandmother and she was always very with it, you know,
from a capacity standpoint, and we were having just a
regular chat and we were talking about something. She asked
me something and I answered her, and then five or
ten minutes went by, and then she asked me the
(17:01):
same question again and I had to re answer it,
and it was like I had never answered it the
first time. And I'm not saying she wasn't forgetful. She
was in her nineties, so I mean, you know, but
that struck me as strange that that had happened. And
then I think the next time that we chatted, kind
of a similar thing happened. And then I remember talking
to my other family members and said, like, I think
(17:23):
we need to keep a closer eye on Grandma as
which as we can, because she's starting to act a
little differently on the phone. And you know, I see
this a lot in my job. Yes, And it's not
saying that she wasn't okay or couldn't be living on
her own or anything like that at that point, or
with my grandfather, it was just something that because they
were in Florida and we're in New York, right, we
(17:44):
couldn't just go around the corner and go check on them, right, So.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
It's it's true. I mean, I was lucky.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
My dad's father had heart failure four times before he died,
and one time he was loopy, like he talked to
my brother and I like we were in his one
of his elementary school classes, and he talked like about
how the teacher was mean, or you know, I put
a lot of it out of my head because it
(18:11):
was unsure, Like, it wasn't unpleasant in the moment, It
was just unpleasant to think that he might not be mentally.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
There, right, or that that that person that you knew
maybe now isn't that same person anymore.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
But that didn't last thankfully, Okay, So he did not
lose that capacity. And my grandmother, my dad's mom, never
did and my mom's mom frankly didn't live long enough
to really ever. So you know, my my grandmother's aunt,
as I mentioned before, though, basically lived forever, and she
(18:43):
was sharp yep, And but she was you know, she
would actively say my aunt's name.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Wrong God purpose right, right, I say, if I'm remembering
this story correctly, wasn't she doing this to like actually
kind of like poke fun at her and be just frankly.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
So maybe if.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
If doing things like that keeps you alive, I guess
I'll be alive for a long time.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah. I mean, it is showing capacity that you've decided
to like, right, it's not an accident, right, right. So
I mean there's one story in particular, I know you
cannot tell on the radio, but there have been times
in your litigation cases sometimes where you'll tell stories about
how someone will show that their capacity because like, they
make a really strange decision, right, But it doesn't mean
(19:27):
that it's that it doesn't show that they lack capacity.
If anything, it shows like they've made an active choice
to make this strange decision.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Right. Bad decisions in and of themselves isn't a lack
of capacity, right Exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
If someone knows they're making bad decisions, they can say, hey,
I want a guardian, Yes, because I am you know,
making bad decisions. But if they don't want a guardian,
bad decisions in and of itself isn't enough.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, I have I have several friends in my life
that I feel like routinely make interesting decisions. But that
doesn't mean that they require a guardian. It just means,
like I I don't think i'd want to have them
manage my money.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Well, yeah, I mean my friend that went to Jamaica
during the hurricane guardianship might be in the offing there,
but that's a different story.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Well, it's one thing to fly to a tropical location.
It's another to do it when you know a hurricane
is headed there.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yes, and it wasn't like the hurricanes suddenly took a
left turn right, it was like, but.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Anyway, I digress.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
They were okay. That's the moral of the story. Everyone
was okay because I remember going to you and asking you, like, hey,
that friend that like you lost content with during the hurricane, Like,
is he actually okay? And you said, yes, thankfully, he
and his spouse are okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
But so one of the things you might find is
that people are not as doing as well physically or
mentally as you thought.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Right, Yes, And.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
We see really a lot of that post holidays. We
unfortunately see a lot of deaths post holidays.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I've been doing this.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
A long time, and more people die it. Older people
die in January and February.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
It's just it's just what I see.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Yeah, I mean you were saying you'd be surprised at
how much they can kind of, you know, get themselves together.
I think same goes for physical things, right, Right, If
people have something to hang on for, I think they
tend to do it, or at least try to do it,
and the outcomes I'm sure are better. Right. So, if
you have it in your head that I really want
(21:31):
to get through Christmas and New Year's or whatever it
is that you're trying to get to you will, I
think have a much better chance of doing it correct.
And then once the holidays are over sometimes people say
I can't do it anymore.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, I think it In some ways that shows that
having things to look forward to matters too, because I
think when you are and maybe it's strong, but you're
trapped in the house, if you're not doing well, or
you're trapped in a nursing home, right, and you know
it's going to be not nice weather outside for the
foreseeable future, right, two to three months March is if
(22:08):
he had passed.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Right, we've had good, we've had bad, right, So.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
I do think that, and you know, I mean maybe
there's a family thing coming up that might help with that.
Maybe there's not, but it does happen. So it's important
when you're home to keep your eyes open.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I mean look in the fridge, right, is there enough food?
Is the food recent?
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Yeah? Right? Yeah, good point.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I mean going in the spice cabinet and finding old
spices is not proof of incapacity.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Okay, so we never we never used the human we had.
I I need to buy it more or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, no, something I mean, you know, we used to
give my grandmother a hard time. We'd be like this, whatever,
you know, something that was turmeric you haven't used since
nineteen seventy eight.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Time for it to go.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
So she wasn't good a visit anyway. No, No, but
you got you know, mold or clearly outdated things that
that that's much more of a difference.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, is the cleaning being kept up on? Is the
trash being kept up behind?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
And that was That's how my mom knew when we
went to visit my grandparents. Yep, when we went to uh,
when we went to the house and we came out,
she said, it doesn't smell clean in there. And I've
never once been in grandma's house in my entire life. Right,
it didn't smell clean in her house.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
So so when we come back, we're going to talk
about planning you can do. Right, So we've talked about
what you need to observe and what may indicate that
there is an issue. Well it issue spotting won't get
you very far in law school, and it'll help you,
but it's a good start, right, but you need to
get to the answers. So when we come back after
(23:48):
the news, we will talk about what you can do
to fix these things. I'm Aaron Connor from Peer O'Connor
and Strauss. This is life happens, and we'll be back
right after this. Welcome back to life happens. Right you
still Aaron Connor from Pire O'connorance Trousse, still joined by
Frank Kemming, also a pier O'Connor and Trousse.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yes, yeah, I hope so, I I jokingly said in
my seminary when we put the uh I put the
slide up with it. I saw the headshots on it
from the firm. Yes, that like part of me is
always like relieved when I put that up in my
my photos still there because I always feel like that
that would be a cruel way to like let someone
know that, like your time with the firm has coming
to an end.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
The other day, we're having problem.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
We have Keila Sentry right and on the doors and
we're having a problem, and I put my thing up
there and i'ment, yeah, yeah, and open the door. Yeah right,
And I was like, this is weird. You know, my
own part of this, I think I wouldn't know. And
then I just oh, the door's unlocked. The problem with
the system, Yeah, for it was.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
It was a weird like half hour forty five minutes
because I think Lou and I were not in the
part of the building behind the locked doors, and we
went to go into one of them, and the same
thing happened. You had to walk around to one of
the unlocked doors.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
So so we've been talking about things you may notice,
and you're looking for behavioral changes, right, physical changes in
the environment and in the person. Yes, right, And you know,
(25:26):
obviously we want planning done ahead of time.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
It's more ideal.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yes, the sooner you do it the better, yes, right.
And if you're doing anything different other than leaving things
to people equally, the sooner you do it the better,
especially okay. And then if you update it and do
it the same way, great, thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Just from a litigation standpoint, then you have a long
standing plan of you know, I don't like Johnny.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Right, right, Yeah, I mean, be consistently. If you've consistently
said you don't like somebody, it's a lot harder for
them to ever fight that you were being influenced or
that you weren't of your right mind, or you know,
whatever arguments want to be made as to why that
plan was not to be honored right.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Last minute things where someone is suddenly out. That's a
fact pattern that's going to generally lead to litigation much
more often.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Yeah. Yeah, I was telling you and lew at breakfast.
I'm reading a John Grisham book, which obviously is fiction,
but kind of the plot of the story is that
a guy dies and then right before his death, he
hands writes a will that cuts his children out, and
it's kind of the legal battle over it, right, And
it's like, well, sure, if you were supposed to inherit
millions of dollars in the day before your father takes
(26:38):
his own life, he writes a handwritten will that gives
you nothing, you might want to challenge that, right, So, so.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
You know, lots of problems in that scenario. Right, do
not handwrite your will, bad news, don't do it. Yeah, okay,
I don't like to be forceful on the radio, bad news, courtroom,
sure radio. Right, do not handwright your will.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Yes, see counsel, get good advice and do a will.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Do not print a will off the internet. Okay, No,
I feel like you're not being clear.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
I know my kids would say, I'm not sure. I understand. Yeah,
but don't do those things.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
I agree, Okay, but.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
First line of defense always power of attorney in healthcare proxy.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah. So can I tell a quick story?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (27:34):
So I program, No, it's not that long. I'm just
gonna give kind of the fact pattern of something that
I saw this week. So I had a consult with
his family, and older guy and his wife and his
friends called us because his one son lives in Texas
or something. And this gentleman ran into issues because I
(27:54):
think he was in a tree cutting a limb and
I don't know the mechanics of how it happened, but
I think he fell out of the tree essentially. Yeah,
and now he's paralyzed because of it. And they were
wanting to talk to us about doing some planning and
getting some Medicaid and all that good stuff. And you know,
one of the first things I had to ask was
do you have a power of attorney in a health
(28:15):
care proxy and will? And they didn't have any of it.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
So let me just add to the list of do nots. Yeah,
do not get on a roof if you're over seventy five. Yes, okay,
we've had that problem.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yes, So so you know, I'm not saying that it
was that they should have envisioned that he would have
been injured in that way, right, But stuff can happen.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I mean, we have a friend who's good friend's father
died when a tree fell on him that they were cutting, like,
died Yeah, yeah, I think he was in his fifties.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Yeah, that's that's allfol So, you.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Know, maybe think what you're doing, right, I mean, accidents happen, right,
that's what these documents are intended for.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yeah, for accidents, yes, agree with.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
That, you know, so they're there when needed.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yeah, I mean, thankfully, this gentleman is very competent. Still,
it's all physical issues he's dealing with, So he's well
enough to do documents now to help deal with the
issues they are now being confronted with. But if you
play that scenario out, how you know, X number of
times they might be dealing with a passing rather than
(29:27):
you know, a physical ailment, or he could have just
become just as disabled mentally as he currently is physically,
and that would that would be a much different perspective
as to how that's to be dealt with from a
legal perspective.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, I mean, and that's an important distinction, right, Physical
disability doesn't mean mental disability.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Yeah, yeah, right, And in this case, like I said,
he would, we had a very nice chat. He was
giving me all correct answers. He could he could, you know,
very easily talk about the things he owned and the
people in his life and who he trusted and what
he wanted. So there was really any doubt as to capacity.
But that doesn't always mean that that's the case. But yes,
(30:05):
to Aaron's point, just because you're physically disabled does not
mean mentally you you that you are.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
So in those situations, at least where the person has
mental capacity, we can still do documents, right, We can
still do not involve a court with a guardianship right, right,
which is a positive I do guardianship work.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
I don't want you to have to do a guardianship.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
No, I say it always is as a positive thing.
But you never want to meet Aaron in a guardianship
context because that just generally means that things have gone
wrong and they could get messy, and they could, they're
so and they're going to be more expensive than.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yes, they're absolutely going to be.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Then if then, if other things had happened, or other
steps had been taken, or other contingencies planned for. That's
just that's just the nature of the game.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Right, I mean a plan generally speaking, is going to
be a third to a fifth of what it's going
to cost to do that guardianship.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Yeah, that's that's that's probably banking to a degree that
there are no.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Fights, big fights, right, Like.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
If there are fights, that always gets worse from a
cost perspective.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
A garden.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yes, a contested guardianship could go into a six figure number,
right does it all the time?
Speaker 3 (31:17):
No?
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Absolutely not, but it can. It has so we we
don't want you to be in that situation. And to
get to that number to be cleared, there has to
be a lot of things at issue and a lot
of assets at risk.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
So, but it does happen.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Yeah, I mean part of the whole guardianship equation, if
you will, is obviously what's what's what assets are at stake?
And right, you know obviously the judge is going to
be very cognizant of that.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yes, there are very few cases where there's no assets
at risk end up being highly litigated because people have
to throw their own money at it, right, and you
know that may make sense to them, it may not,
so having that power of itttorney and healthcare proxy is critical.
The power of attorney is definitely the more complicated of
(32:06):
the two documents has to be done correctly.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
As we have probably said on the show a million times,
we will continue ad.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Infinite say we've had a million and one shows and
we've probably said that a million times.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Right, So don't print it off the internet and do
it yourself.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Don't do it, I agree, Just the likelihood of it
being done correctly, if that's the avenue you're taking, it's
just it's very small.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I haven't seen it.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
I say, I'm not sure that I have either, and
if I have, it's two or three times for the many,
many many documents that have come in like that that
are not good and not sufficient.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
It might be legally valid, but it wouldn't do what
you needed to do.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Yeah, that's the problem, right.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah, So that just is a fail all around. You know,
as we have often said, don't have your DWI lawyer
do your power of attorney either.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
And I always get I don't know, angry might be
the right word. Your your DEUI lawyer shouldn't be taking
that case honestly, at least in my opinion. I agree
they they're free to run their business as they don't,
get me wrong, But if you don't know what you're
doing from an attorney standpoint, you shouldn't be taking the case.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Well, I think when it happens not a defense of that,
I agree with you one hundred percent. Is that a
lot of people are solos, or they go to a
solo yes, right, or you know, two person law firm
and they not in a position to turn much business away.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Yeah, And I don't understand it.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
But that that doesn't mean it's a good decision.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Right because I've never excuse me, I've never practiced in
that area for a firm like that. So I do
understand from a business perspective how that might be something.
But on the other hand, you shouldn't be taking the
case if you don't really know what you're doing, right. No.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
I did maybe intern in law school with a solo
at one point, but that I have never been attracted
to that form of business. You know what, There's lots
of benefits to dealing with the firm, right, And I
think this is one of the things that people don't
again think about, is a.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Firm is likely to go on for a long period
of time.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
That's the hope, right, right, I.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Mean generally it may end up getting bought by a
larger firm or merging with a firm. That happens, right,
We're certainly not planning to do any of that, but
there's some place where your documents go.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
We've done the states for small time, small town attorneys.
I don't want to call them small time, but maybe
they were also a small time.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
But small time that kept wills in a barn, literally
in a bar.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I think I heard, I think I remember you saying that.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah, so you know, it gets difficult.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
We've had people whose attorneys have retired and they we can't.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Find the original will.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Yeah, that's not great.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
No, and it more often than not, the original will matters, right,
especially if it's not descendants.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah, and Frank, can you just clarify my lawyer talk.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I can, so, descendants per sturpies essentially just means equally
amongst your children. And if you have any of your
children pass away, their their chair, that child share goes
to their children, if they have any right.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
So if everybody's getting a quarter they pass away, they
have two kids, the two kids split the quarter.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Right, Right, that's the most common way people tend to
divide their assets. But I would never say it's the
right way to do it. The right way is how
you want to do it.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
It's certainly not the only way.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Yeah, that's the most common way people tend to do it.
Most people treat their family equally and they want everyone
to be on the same page and on the same
footing and things.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Right.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
That doesn't mean that's the right way to do it
for any one particular.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
And I often people want us to tell them what
to do, right, and we don't really do that. I
have to say, I don't know your children. Yeah, right,
you have to. But if there's a reason, I want
to know oftentimes what the reason is, right, yep. And
if it's this person hasn't talked to me in twenty years, Well,
(36:16):
if you don't you want to cut them out, great, Yeah,
if you don't want to, fine.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
It's your choice.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I probably would, but you know that's me.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Yeah. I had a very nice chat with a with
a former client just just a few days ago, and
she asked, what do you think I should do? And
I said, I can't answer that for you. It's not
my decision what you do. It's my decision to give
you advice and counsel regarding what you want to do. Right,
So why don't you tell me what you think you
want to do and then we'll talk about if that's
(36:43):
going to work, or if there are other other alternatives
or better ways to do it or whatever. But it's
not my job to tell you that, right.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
And you know, I had a long discussion about someone
who was not going to be.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Good with money.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
Yeah, which is important, pot beneficiary, important fact to know.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
This person evidently was once given twenty five hundred dollars
and then they quit their job.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Oh okay, okay, so there's some sort of lack.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Of reasonableness unless they have a lot of independent money themselves.
That was enough, That was enough? Okay, Yeah, hey, good luck.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yes, that's so we had to set up a different.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Type of how they were inheriting. Right.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
So that's the other thing people don't think of. It's
nice and neat to give everybody everything the same way. Right,
you got three kids, you're going to go a third,
a third, a third in trust for all of them outright,
to all of them.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Whatever. But that may not really be.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
The best idea, especially from people that have maybe financial
issues going on with either it's Deb's divorce, you know,
or just bad decision making ability.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Yes, I mean where Frank is mister medicaid, I might
be mister unit trust because I feel like I'm the
only one that really uses unit trusts a lot.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Yeah, I'm just trying to think of I mean, the
alliteration isn't as good, but it's not. But you know,
uncle unit trust sounds not great?
Speaker 1 (38:08):
No, no, so.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
We'll workshop it. Yeah yeah, but yeah, no, if anyone
in the firm enjoys a good unit trust, that would
be aaron.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
So just to explain what that means is and you
can set it up. So let's just say you put
one hundred thousand into unit trust. You set a number
that comes out every year. Let's say five or six percent.
Could be ten percent, but that would be high. Yeah,
depends on what your goal is, right, So let's say
it's six percent. That person gets six percent of the
(38:40):
one hundred thousand every year, six hundred thousand or I'm sorry,
six thousand. They get five hundred dollars a month. If
you want to do it annually, right, yep, you want
to that higher. But what a unit trust does is
it doesn't matter whether there's what the principal and income
is can be invested for total return, meaning that you
don't have to invest for income, right, you can invest
(39:01):
for growth and.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
It's just going to spit out the same amount every year.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Also makes life easier for the trustee because their discretion
is limited.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Yeah, they don't have to make any choices.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
There's always going to be what we call a hem
standard where you can get extra money health education, maintenance support,
but that's really more limited than it sounds, yes, and
so that's just something we like to keep in mind.
It's a way to help people and maybe not put
your kids at odds.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Right, when there's a situation where a unit trust makes
a lot of sense.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
I mean a lot of people might say, I want
my child or my grandchild or you know, my loved
one to get this money, but I just don't want
to give it to them all at once, right because
I'm afraid of what that will look like to them
if they have all this money just sitting in a pile. Right,
that's a good way.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
To do it, exactly, all right, we're going to take
our last break here, Well, we come back, we'll give
you some last ideas for your Christmas plan. I'm Aaron
Connor from Pierre O'Connor and Strauss, and we back right
after this Welcome Back to Life Happens Radio. Aaron Connor
still of Pier O'connorance Trous, Frank Hemming still of Pier o'connorance.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Trous here for the last segment.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
That's right, at least through this week.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Wow, that's very nice of you. Thank you so much
for the Frankly, if I may say that the security.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
I think Frank and I have a long time of
dealing with each other.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Yet to go, So yeah, I think that's all right though.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Yeah, I'm good with it.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah, we wouldn't have made it this long if that
probably wasn't gonna work out, That's right, I would.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Think, right, I got it about nineteen years left on
my plan, not that you're counting, you know, does go
through my what was always over twenty.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Frank, Yeah, yeah, oh right, I guess that's true, right.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Or it does kind of seem like a little bit
of a milestone.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Congratulations, I'm happy for you.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
You can retire in nineteen years.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Great, I mean that's just the goal I've set for myself,
the number, right, I think you got to have a number.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
I watch people and they're like and like, if you
don't really have a time, doesn't mean it won't can't change,
it might change.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Lou will probably never retire.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
Not completely or at least you know. Yeah, I kind
of believe it when I see it.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Yeah, I don't. I don't see it, and that's fine,
that's what he wants to do. I have no problem
with that, but I would like to be retired.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Yeah, at some point, I'm just going to be done,
I think. Yeah, it's even longer than you so well hopefully.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Right, Well you haven't been at it as long as that's.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
I'm saying, hopefully yeah right, But so yeah, at some point,
I just I think I'm just going to be done.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Right, I mean, well, you're essentially almost exactly ten years younger.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
Than me, that's yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah, so twenty eight is years, frank, or maybe you know,
thirty ish years whatever you want.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
To do whatever. Yeah, my wife had might have thoughts
about this.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
I'm sure she does.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
I don't know they're good or bad thoughts, but she
might have thoughts.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
About her well, don't forget that my wife will be
retired for probably ten years before I retire.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
So yeah, no, my my wife is a state employee
as well, and she's she's already said like, how how
much longer she has till she can get out? So
I don't know what she'll be doing. But I don't
think it'll just be sitting around retired. I can't see
that for my wife.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
But yeah, my wife is under ten years. I mean
it might not be nine. Yeah, I mean it's under
ten do you know what I mean? It might be
nine in change or.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
I mean, I don't know what the math is exactly,
but it's you know.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
Yeah, my wife's number is lower than mine. At least
you get to be out of her current job. Again,
doesn't means she doesn't find something else to.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Do, correct, So we digress.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
But maybe the gift of planning for yourself is having
a time when you figure out when.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
You said that's actually it's actually on point. Yeahh I mean,
I'd love to think that it's closer than it is.
But at the same time, like, don't wish your life away,
right right, right, Like I have some plans, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I got plenty of bad decisions to make between that.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
And just just you wait and see.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
So ultimately, I think the best plan you can make
for your loved ones.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Is to have a trust.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Okay, whether that be revocable or revocable is going to
depend on your situation.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
So I'm going to go back to I had a
nice chat with an elderly former client of ours and
so her husband passed away just about a year ago.
Because she told me we had just gotten passed to
think of the year mark and she just went through
probate for her husband, and she said, you know, I
might want to update my will, and I know lots
of people have said I should do a trust, and
(43:31):
I need you to tell me what to do. And
I said, I can't do that for you, but I
can give you advice and give you options, and then
you have to decide what you want to do exactly.
And we talked about, you know, changing maybe her beneficieries
a little bit, and some other thoughts she was having.
And then she said, well, what's the if you could,
you know, make this as easy as you can for me.
What's the easiest thing to do to make this easy
(43:54):
for my family? And I said, you should do some
type of trust, depending on what you want to accomplish
with a trust. And she said, why is that, And
I said, well, you just went through the probate process
with your husband's stuff. If you do, if all you
do is update your will, you are doing exactly the
same thing that you just did to your daughter when
something happens to you exactly So if you have no
(44:16):
problem with that, then updating your will would would be
a good step towards getting your affairs more in line
with your current thinking. If you do not want that
to happen to your daughter, then you should not just
do a will. You should talk with us about doing
a trust. We'll see what she says, because she was
going to think it over and talk to her daughter.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
So well, I can just say that when people come
in and we have to go through probate, it's not
it's not lovely, right. It might not be terrible. Yeah,
in some cases it is terrible. Someone's cut out, or
there's some problems, or there's a medicaid lean. Yeah, there's
some other kind of debt.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Right.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
The other scenario, you do more of these consultations in
this work than I do. But the other scenario that
it's probably less likely or at least if people are
taking our advice, hopefully it's not as bad as this.
But I envision there are probate cases that we have
and have seen and will take ones in the future
where literally everything is in the estate, right and you know,
whether it's a house or other properties, and you know
(45:17):
there were no beneficiaries, no co ownerships on things, and
literally everything is locked in the estate. So like you're
looking at all of these things and money and assets
and whatever, and there's no ability to use really any
of them to deal with the ongoing problems throughout the
probate process.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Yes, so when you do a trust, we don't have
to do that, right, And I always joke that your
kids can wait till the day after you're gone to
sell the house, right, which they technically could do. That's
not typically what happens, you know, But you don't need
to work on a court schedule. You can work on
your own schedule, and sometimes most of the time that
(45:52):
allows more ability to grieve. First of all, yeah, right,
because the probate process extends that. And if it's a
contest probate process, well then I don't know if you've
ever really get to grieve. Yeah, So all of those
are important things in life and you having a life.
(46:14):
People are often surprised how smooth the administration of a
trust can be if you haven't been through it. And
I'm sure I've said this several times on the air.
We predominantly have two types of clients. People whose parents
did everything wrong and the other said, people whose parents
did everything right. Yes, there's some blend in the middle, right,
(46:34):
but not a lot.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
Yeah, I would say that it's true.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
So if you've been through a disaster probate, you don't
want to put your beneficiaries your family through that.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
And I think to be fair because I I think
I want to be fair. I have had certain clients,
not many, but I have had clients or perspective clients
that I've talked to that said, so and so had
a trust, it was awful. I don't want to do that.
But then usually there's some differences between that situation plus
the one that we're probably pitching to them. Yeah, because like,
(47:05):
just for an example, I have seen irrevocable trusts that
I would say are not drafted very well and that
are very difficult to manage and deal with.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Sure, they are out there.
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Our trusts, I don't feel like are that.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
No at all, don't think so at all.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
But I could understand why maybe somebody has had that
experience and might have those feelings about it. But it
doesn't mean that things couldn't be differentiated between that scenario
and maybe the one that we're proposing.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
So I just finished a plan for people that moved
here from another state and they had a revocable trust
from that state. Okay, And I said, what's in this
revocable trust? Oh no, I said nothing great. And I said, okay,
So we have a person whose entire job is trust
(47:52):
funding coordination. Yep, Okay, your trust is already partially funded
because you just signed the deed putting your property into
the trust.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
You're already you're already doing better than you did.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Right.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
So I feel like when people think that a trust
didn't work out, it's because the funding wasn't followed up
on ninety five percent.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Of the time.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
Yeah, that's I would tend to agree. That's that's usually
the issue if there is one with a trust.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
So, and I will give Lou credit. This was Lou's
idea that we have a paralegal just dedicated to this
trust funding process, and it is important because the trust
is only as valuable as it is funded.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
Yeah, until you actually title things into the trust, move
things into the trust, however you want to phrase it,
because it's all it's kind of the same thing, right,
You just have a big stack of paper that you
probably handed a lawyer quite a bit of money to
give to you, but isn't actually doing anything for you.
Why do that?
Speaker 2 (48:49):
So we're coming up on the end of the show again.
Happy holidays to everybody, whether it's Hanka, Christmas, Kwanza, Festivus,
anything I've forgotten.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
And obviously safe traveling, you know, if you're traveling, whether
it's longer, it's close to whatever.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Weather it looks okay, yeah, you know, thanks so thankfully.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
No, No, that was me knocking on what No, big
storm's coming because I.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
As the older I get, the more I hate the winner.
But that's just me.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
I just don't like cleaning it up, that's right, that's
my thing.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Yes, So if any of these needs arise, please give
us a call at the office.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
It's five one eight four five nine. Consultation is free.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
We'll be happy to look at your situation and give
you a plan and tell you what that would cost.
You can also send an email to info at puro
law dot com. That's p I e r r law
dot com and we will have one more show before
the new year.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
So we will talk to you then.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Everybody, have a great holiday, Thanks very much, Aaron Connor,
Frank coming, Pierre O'Connor and Strauss
Good morning, Welcome to Life Happens. Are you prepared?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
This is our weekly radio program where we address the
challenges we all face as we age. We talk about
aging as a lifestyle, the issues that must be confronted,
and the careful planning that's required to avoid crises in
the future. Life Happens will provide you with tools to
prepare yourself for events like retirement, protecting your income and assets,
planning to pay for nursing home or home care, special needs,
(00:24):
Wilson trusts, and planning for an untimely death.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Maybe even resolving.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Disputes outside of court, certainly inside of court. A Aaron
Connor from Pierre Connor and Strauss, joined by Frank Hemming
hi erin, Hello, Frank.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, it's been a little while. It has, shockingly, I'm
really glad you asked me to come on and talk
about the Knicks championship. Yes, the first championship they've had
since the seventies.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
They're not hanging a banner.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I read.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
No, I did see that. I think they're right to
do that.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I agree, but I was like thinking there's a chance
they might because it it's been this long.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well, you know, as a Yankees fan, when I see
the teams like hanging twenty thirteen wild card qualifier, so.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Like my team, yeah they do that.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I don't know, but I see stuff like that, and
I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Man, we don't have enough room for our championship, like
the actual championship.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Pennetts Championships only for ya Yankees.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
No, no, no, not that the you know, most recent years
have been great. Sure, that's where we're at. Yeah, No,
I think that's probably the right move. But I had
to had to throw that out there. Sure, because it's
been it's been a long time since they had even
the ability to think about whether they wanted to hang
a banner or not.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
That's true, you know, and the Mets are just becoming
I think the Kansas City A's, and that they're just
taking all the Yankee cast sauce right now. So I
mean that that's probably too far back for you to
know anything about it.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
No, but I get the reference. But I wouldn't have faded.
But I do know what you mean. Yeah, it was a.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Time when the A's were forbidden for trading with the
like a period like I think it was two years.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, like no more trades. Your trades are so bad.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yeah, well I'm gonna I'm gonna put my rose coloid
glasses on and say, you know, Clay Holmes has been
pretty good for us. Uh, Severino turned out to be
very good for us. So so maybe Devin Williams and
Luke Weaver will be will be fine for us. But uh,
if they're not, I'm sure I'm going to be hearing
about it. So it is what it.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Is, that's right.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
And I just want to say, Merry Christmas and happy
holidays to everyone, right, certainly if you celebrate Christmas, Merry Christmas,
Happy Hanukah, Happy Kwanza, happy Festivus, any anything else.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
That I may have missed, Yeah, to say, we're not
trying to play favorites if there's something we've missed, obviously,
happy holidays and best wishes to everyone listening to you,
your family and everyone in your life.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Right, and we will not be airing our grievances today, So.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
No Festivus today, right, So I have to tear this up.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, sorry, Frank, it's.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Fine, but you know we're all maybe as I shouldn't
say we all, like there's two men on this radio show,
so we may have not have purchased everything.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
We may have needed to have purchased. We may have,
we may not have.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I've been pretty good shape. Yeah, I always feel like
there's always more that I could have gotten or I've
gotten or whatever. But I think if you know, being
objective about it as much as I can, I think
I'm pretty good shape.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah. I'm not the guy who goes out on Christmas Eve.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
No, my dad was that guy. I mean, not for
a lot. He would always go get one or two
last things. I think I think like either his grandmother
or someone in the family farther back than like I
know kind of I think did that with him, and
I think it stuck with him throughout throughout the rest
of his life because I think he always would make
a thing of like I have to run out and
get something.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well, to be fair, it was also a time where
you just couldn't order everything well. Yeah, I mean I
wouldn't go on your phone and Amazon, you know. Yeah,
ire in two days.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Shout out to Jeff Bezos, You're welcome. Like, the fact
that you have such a good balance in your bank
account is partially because there's constant Amazon packages that at
my house just about every day, it seems like, so you're.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Welcome, so hopefully everybody's in good shape. But there are.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Gifts you can really give your people that aren't necessarily
gifts that they would think of.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Funerals, funerals, funerals, funerals, well, paying for funerals, Yeah, not
the gift of a funeral that that might be a crime.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yes, you would need a different type.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Of LA can't advise you to do that, yes, but
no prepaying funerals, that's what I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Sure that is certainly I wasn't going to start at
the end, but we can address that for sure. You know,
in my personal experience, after my grandfather died, my grandmother
pre planned her funeral, which made everything easier for everybody.
We knew what she wanted, right, It wasn't a debate
of whether this is what she wanted or not. There
(04:46):
wasn't a worry, which there can sometimes be, of who's
going to pay for it because they can't access her funds.
And you know, frankly, if you're grieving, the last thing
you want.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
To do is really deal with those details.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So having it done at a time, yeah, just from
a family standpoint, is a great gift.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yeah, and if if, if there's somebody else who's more
uh cost cost conscience in your life, you can lock
in that price, like I've had I've had other people
tell me that, like, you know, they'd rather get it
at today's price rather than ten years from now this
price or like whatever. So I don't think that's usually
the reason people do it, but there is maybe some
(05:24):
savings built into looking ahead, if you want to look
at it that way.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Well, in that regard, what I see is that people
who really there are don't get me wrong, there are
people who have an interest in science and may donate
their body for that purpose. But there certainly have been
people that do it because the cremation thereafter is free.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Yeah. So like if like the common one around this
area is albany Med, Right, so if you donate your
body to albany Med, typically they'll like, when they're done
doing whatever they're going to do, right, they will help
pay for the cremation and get the ashes returned to
the family or interred or whatever it is that's supposed
to happen with as far as I understand it.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, that's so. It happened with my great uncle. And
you know, I think six or eight months later, they
they got an urn and then they had some kind
of like graveside service or something. I'm personally, I know
people do this. I don't understand the cremation and then burial.
I feel like, if you're cremated, why I take up
the space?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
But hey, yeah you do you?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah, your choice is yours.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Sorry, not to not to make light of this, but
I just I had it in my head of do
they do they tell you that they're sending the ashes
in advance or like do you just go out to
the mailbox one day? And it's just.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So this was several years ago, but I'm sure that
there was a notification of something.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
I'm sure there is. That's what I mean, Like this
is this is probably just being you know me in
my head, but.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
No understood what I mean.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
We've had stories of people finding like the box of
cremated yeah, or cremaines I guess they're called right in
a house where you know, and then having to deal
with it. Yes, So I'm I mean, unfortunately, we have
dealt with a lot of people in bad situations, right,
and we've just seen a lot of things that you
would think probably would never happen.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
But well, since we're on the subject, I always love
telling this story when we're doing seminars and things, and
I probably have said it on the radio because I've
been on the show enough. But like we have had
times like where people have passed right about now between
the holidays, and at least in the past, Albany med
when they went to make the donation, they were not
there to take them, so they were not going to
(07:31):
receive the bequest of the body for scientific purposes. So
the family had to then regroup and figure out what
Plan B was going to be because Plan A didn't
work or it wasn't possible.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Right, And that reason is that they are closed between
Christmas and New Year's. Yeah, so I always tell people
to please die accordingly.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yes, if you stuff to you, yes, yes, yeah. I
always generally tell people like, just come up with a
backup plan just in case, you know that maybe you
want to communicate to your family, just in case they
have that anario where your your plan, your you know
your a plan doesn't work that way, they don't have
to figure out what you would have wanted. You've already
given some direction to that.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
If you have a Dora you've taken care of.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
So the other thing that this makes me think of
is the situation where from Medicaid perspective, right, yep, So
prepaying your funeral is an exempt.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Resource if it's irrevocable.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Correct, Okay, guess what everybody's going to pass away eventually.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Right, So depends to you, Well, depends what you ask,
if you ask the clients understood, But yes.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So you know, making it irrevocable isn't all that scary?
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Yeah, I guess. I don't think I've ever heard of
somebody that I've been working with, obviously in a non
medicaid context, that had a revocable arrangement that actually revoked it. Right,
I'm sure. I'm sure it's happened.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Sure it's happened.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
That's I mean, I'm just I'm not familiar with I think,
any cases where it has right.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
So, but so a lot of people made the mistake
that they don't have that in place ahead of time,
so they get down to their Medicaid asset limit or
below it, right, and then there isn't this money to
pay a funeral, right, I mean, so if you do
it correctly, you would pay this first and then still
(09:17):
keep your thirty plus thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, that's obviosually one of the reasons why, I think,
as strange as it sounds, that's why sometimes we advise
people not to prepay their arrangements, just to kind of
maybe figure out what they would want and maybe even
get it price quoted, just so they have an idea
as to the level of expense. But then if Medicaid
becomes necessary, if you have slightly more than your allowance,
(09:40):
then you can prepay the burial, the funeral, and the
other arrangements. That's a find transaction for Medicaid purposes, as
Aaron said, and then it gets you down below your
asset limit. You've now taken care of your arrangements, you
don't have to worry about where the money's coming from,
and then you're down below your Medicaid limit. So it
works really well in that context. People would rather just
(10:01):
get it taken care of upfront when they're healthy, just
because it's one less thing to worry about and that stuff,
and both scenarios are fine to work with generally on us.
It's just sometimes we will actually advise someone not to
do that until later.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Correct, you know, and some quirky things about that. Right,
there's no limit yep currently Right, some point in time,
I'm sure someone's gonna test that and it's gonna be
like Noboddy, sorry, we cannot shoot you into space as
an exact resource rights.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
But he puts seventy five thousand dollars in that burial arrangement,
that is that is something intense.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah, and maybe this goes along with the theme of
the gift of planning. Yeah, we've also had parents prepay
for children's burials.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yeah, that's It's always an interesting conversation to have because
I always try to put it this way. When we're
talking to families. Sometimes the advice we're giving sounds a
little strange, right, or you know, maybe not what you
were expressing. But a lot of it's just because when
you're sitting in the planning chair, we're not looking at
(11:11):
this the same way as family members are. Right, we
have to kind of look at it from a legal perspective,
from a monetary perspective, from a financial perspective. So you know,
to us, if you're going to put call it, fifteen
thousand dollars at risk by not doing anything in some ways,
like it makes more financial sense to spend some of
(11:34):
that money towards burial and funeral arrangements for family members
and things, because someone is deriving the benefit from that
rather than it just going to the nursing home or
going to the county or wherever it's supposed to go.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Ultimately, our job is to get you the most value
for what you have.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Right, And I think most people would agree that while
it may not have been the expense they thought they'd
be making, they'd rather do that than give it to
the count or give it to the nursing home or
give it to taxes or whatever. The advice is going against.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Exactly, So it may sound strange in the abstract, and
I try to tell people all the time to suspend
logic and you.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Know, get ready for disbelief.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
It's very wise advice, honestly, because a lot of it
doesn't really make a lot of sense or certainly logical sense.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
And again, our job is to guide you through the labyrinth, right,
because that's really what it is, planning labyrinth, the medicaid labyrinth, right,
whatever byzantine structure you want.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
To be well, I mean just to just to kind
of just use a you know, just use a kind
of a real life example. I went and I did
a seminar for a group of financial advisors earlier this week.
So they went to school for finance, I'm assuming, or
at least a related field, right, they are actively managing
people and their money and giving recommendations on how to
handle finances and doing some math right in math, all
(13:00):
the fun stuff. And I went in and I kind
of did a kind of like a hybrid seminar, if
you will, where we talked some about planning and the
things we talk a lot about on the show, and
then we did a pivot and then we talked about
what trust planning would look like for a married couple,
whether we use a revocable trust or near avocable trust.
And in my opinion, we didn't really get into the
(13:21):
weeds that much. But by the end you could see
that the wheels were turning and the heads were spending
a little bit of just there's a lot to digest
and there's a lot to take in, and it certainly
can get much more detailed and difficult to follow, you know,
if you want to ratchet that up. And that's going
to be the subject of another seminar, right, But it
wasn't that one or even the people that do this
(13:43):
for a living have sometimes hard time following everything absolutely well.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I think that's a good place to take a break,
because I think the next thing we want to do
is talk about the gift of planning. Sure, all right,
So this is Life Happens Radio. I'm Aaron Connor from
Pure O'Connor and Strauss, and we'll be back right after
the break. Welcome back to Life Happens Radio, brought to
you by Pierre O'Connor and Strauss. I'm Aaron Connor, joined
by Frank Hemmick. Still here, and we are discussing the
(14:09):
gift of planning since the holidays are upon us. If
you did not know that, no, you know, let your
panic set in. We'll give you a minute to get
a deep breath. Maybe need to get a paper bag,
but you may want to address some things.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
For that, just an idea, Ye, just.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Thrown it out there.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
One thing we often do see at this time, though,
is it's a time where families gather and a lot
of people now are spread all across the country or world.
Even we have several clients whose kids don't even live
in this country.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Yeah, I just I'm going to get the locations wrong.
But I just met with a mother and her son
and he's an only child and he has two kids,
and I think one is in Scotland or Ireland and
the other ones in Japan, if I'm remembering correctly. Yeah,
And I was like, man, right, either that's a long
trip home for the holidays or they're just they're just
(15:08):
not coming this year.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Right, So yes, I do remember.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I think one was like Morocco and Switzerland or something
like that, or Austria.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So maybe you don't see each other in person as much, right, yep.
And FaceTime is great or zoom or whatever other video call, right,
but in person you may see some things that you
can't cover up on a half hour phone call.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Yeah, I am. I can speak a little bit to this.
I mean, it was a long time ago now, but
when I was away at college, my dad was going
through cancer treatments and stuff. And I would talk to
my parents just about probably every day, or certainly every
two or three for sure, And there was a week
and there was a big difference sometimes when I would
(15:55):
go away and when I would come home a few
weeks or a few months later. And sure, and see
kind of what home was looking like for sure. Yeah,
And I wasn't far away, you know. I was only
an hour and a half away, which I hadn't been
home in a while, but I wasn't far.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Right, So yeah, that's that's important to know. And it's
really true because I've seen so many people mask for
short periods of time, maybe even a whole day. Yeah, right,
if they know what's coming, you'd be surprised with someone
(16:27):
with waning capacity or waning physical ability can can kind
of buck up to do. I don't know how it
was to say, yeah, no, I again, I my kids
can't buck up.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Well, I think I've said on the show. Look, I
lost both my grandparents in the past few months, and
a few months ago I was on the phone with
my grandmother and she was always very with it, you know,
from a capacity standpoint, and we were having just a
regular chat and we were talking about something. She asked
me something and I answered her, and then five or
ten minutes went by, and then she asked me the
(17:01):
same question again and I had to re answer it,
and it was like I had never answered it the
first time. And I'm not saying she wasn't forgetful. She
was in her nineties, so I mean, you know, but
that struck me as strange that that had happened. And
then I think the next time that we chatted, kind
of a similar thing happened. And then I remember talking
to my other family members and said, like, I think
(17:23):
we need to keep a closer eye on Grandma as
which as we can, because she's starting to act a
little differently on the phone. And you know, I see
this a lot in my job. Yes, And it's not
saying that she wasn't okay or couldn't be living on
her own or anything like that at that point, or
with my grandfather, it was just something that because they
were in Florida and we're in New York, right, we
(17:44):
couldn't just go around the corner and go check on them, right, So.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
It's it's true. I mean, I was lucky.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
My dad's father had heart failure four times before he died,
and one time he was loopy, like he talked to
my brother and I like we were in his one
of his elementary school classes, and he talked like about
how the teacher was mean, or you know, I put
a lot of it out of my head because it
(18:11):
was unsure, Like, it wasn't unpleasant in the moment, It
was just unpleasant to think that he might not be mentally.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
There, right, or that that that person that you knew
maybe now isn't that same person anymore.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
But that didn't last thankfully, Okay, So he did not
lose that capacity. And my grandmother, my dad's mom, never
did and my mom's mom frankly didn't live long enough
to really ever. So you know, my my grandmother's aunt,
as I mentioned before, though, basically lived forever, and she
(18:43):
was sharp yep, And but she was you know, she
would actively say my aunt's name.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Wrong God purpose right, right, I say, if I'm remembering
this story correctly, wasn't she doing this to like actually
kind of like poke fun at her and be just frankly.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
So maybe if.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
If doing things like that keeps you alive, I guess
I'll be alive for a long time.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah. I mean, it is showing capacity that you've decided
to like, right, it's not an accident, right, right. So
I mean there's one story in particular, I know you
cannot tell on the radio, but there have been times
in your litigation cases sometimes where you'll tell stories about
how someone will show that their capacity because like, they
make a really strange decision, right, But it doesn't mean
(19:27):
that it's that it doesn't show that they lack capacity.
If anything, it shows like they've made an active choice
to make this strange decision.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Right. Bad decisions in and of themselves isn't a lack
of capacity, right Exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
If someone knows they're making bad decisions, they can say, hey,
I want a guardian, Yes, because I am you know,
making bad decisions. But if they don't want a guardian,
bad decisions in and of itself isn't enough.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, I have I have several friends in my life
that I feel like routinely make interesting decisions. But that
doesn't mean that they require a guardian. It just means,
like I I don't think i'd want to have them
manage my money.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Well, yeah, I mean my friend that went to Jamaica
during the hurricane guardianship might be in the offing there,
but that's a different story.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Well, it's one thing to fly to a tropical location.
It's another to do it when you know a hurricane
is headed there.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yes, and it wasn't like the hurricanes suddenly took a
left turn right, it was like, but.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Anyway, I digress.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
They were okay. That's the moral of the story. Everyone
was okay because I remember going to you and asking you, like, hey,
that friend that like you lost content with during the hurricane, Like,
is he actually okay? And you said, yes, thankfully, he
and his spouse are okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
But so one of the things you might find is
that people are not as doing as well physically or
mentally as you thought.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Right, Yes, And.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
We see really a lot of that post holidays. We
unfortunately see a lot of deaths post holidays.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I've been doing this.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
A long time, and more people die it. Older people
die in January and February.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
It's just it's just what I see.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Yeah, I mean you were saying you'd be surprised at
how much they can kind of, you know, get themselves together.
I think same goes for physical things, right, Right, If
people have something to hang on for, I think they
tend to do it, or at least try to do it,
and the outcomes I'm sure are better. Right. So, if
you have it in your head that I really want
(21:31):
to get through Christmas and New Year's or whatever it
is that you're trying to get to you will, I
think have a much better chance of doing it correct.
And then once the holidays are over sometimes people say
I can't do it anymore.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, I think it In some ways that shows that
having things to look forward to matters too, because I
think when you are and maybe it's strong, but you're
trapped in the house, if you're not doing well, or
you're trapped in a nursing home, right, and you know
it's going to be not nice weather outside for the
foreseeable future, right, two to three months March is if
(22:08):
he had passed.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Right, we've had good, we've had bad, right, So.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
I do think that, and you know, I mean maybe
there's a family thing coming up that might help with that.
Maybe there's not, but it does happen. So it's important
when you're home to keep your eyes open.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I mean look in the fridge, right, is there enough food?
Is the food recent?
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Yeah? Right? Yeah, good point.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I mean going in the spice cabinet and finding old
spices is not proof of incapacity.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Okay, so we never we never used the human we had.
I I need to buy it more or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, no, something I mean, you know, we used to
give my grandmother a hard time. We'd be like this, whatever,
you know, something that was turmeric you haven't used since
nineteen seventy eight.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Time for it to go.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
So she wasn't good a visit anyway. No, No, but
you got you know, mold or clearly outdated things that
that that's much more of a difference.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, is the cleaning being kept up on? Is the
trash being kept up behind?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
And that was That's how my mom knew when we
went to visit my grandparents. Yep, when we went to uh,
when we went to the house and we came out,
she said, it doesn't smell clean in there. And I've
never once been in grandma's house in my entire life. Right,
it didn't smell clean in her house.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
So so when we come back, we're going to talk
about planning you can do. Right, So we've talked about
what you need to observe and what may indicate that
there is an issue. Well it issue spotting won't get
you very far in law school, and it'll help you,
but it's a good start, right, but you need to
get to the answers. So when we come back after
(23:48):
the news, we will talk about what you can do
to fix these things. I'm Aaron Connor from Peer O'Connor
and Strauss. This is life happens, and we'll be back
right after this. Welcome back to life happens. Right you
still Aaron Connor from Pire O'connorance Trousse, still joined by
Frank Kemming, also a pier O'Connor and Trousse.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yes, yeah, I hope so, I I jokingly said in
my seminary when we put the uh I put the
slide up with it. I saw the headshots on it
from the firm. Yes, that like part of me is
always like relieved when I put that up in my
my photos still there because I always feel like that
that would be a cruel way to like let someone
know that, like your time with the firm has coming
to an end.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
The other day, we're having problem.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
We have Keila Sentry right and on the doors and
we're having a problem, and I put my thing up
there and i'ment, yeah, yeah, and open the door. Yeah right,
And I was like, this is weird. You know, my
own part of this, I think I wouldn't know. And
then I just oh, the door's unlocked. The problem with
the system, Yeah, for it was.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
It was a weird like half hour forty five minutes
because I think Lou and I were not in the
part of the building behind the locked doors, and we
went to go into one of them, and the same
thing happened. You had to walk around to one of
the unlocked doors.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
So so we've been talking about things you may notice,
and you're looking for behavioral changes, right, physical changes in
the environment and in the person. Yes, right, And you know,
(25:26):
obviously we want planning done ahead of time.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
It's more ideal.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yes, the sooner you do it the better, yes, right.
And if you're doing anything different other than leaving things
to people equally, the sooner you do it the better,
especially okay. And then if you update it and do
it the same way, great, thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Just from a litigation standpoint, then you have a long
standing plan of you know, I don't like Johnny.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Right, right, Yeah, I mean, be consistently. If you've consistently
said you don't like somebody, it's a lot harder for
them to ever fight that you were being influenced or
that you weren't of your right mind, or you know,
whatever arguments want to be made as to why that
plan was not to be honored right.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Last minute things where someone is suddenly out. That's a
fact pattern that's going to generally lead to litigation much
more often.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Yeah. Yeah, I was telling you and lew at breakfast.
I'm reading a John Grisham book, which obviously is fiction,
but kind of the plot of the story is that
a guy dies and then right before his death, he
hands writes a will that cuts his children out, and
it's kind of the legal battle over it, right, And
it's like, well, sure, if you were supposed to inherit
millions of dollars in the day before your father takes
(26:38):
his own life, he writes a handwritten will that gives
you nothing, you might want to challenge that, right, So, so.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
You know, lots of problems in that scenario. Right, do
not handwrite your will, bad news, don't do it. Yeah, okay,
I don't like to be forceful on the radio, bad news, courtroom,
sure radio. Right, do not handwright your will.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Yes, see counsel, get good advice and do a will.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Do not print a will off the internet. Okay, No,
I feel like you're not being clear.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
I know my kids would say, I'm not sure. I understand. Yeah,
but don't do those things.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
I agree, Okay, but.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
First line of defense always power of attorney in healthcare proxy.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah. So can I tell a quick story?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (27:34):
So I program, No, it's not that long. I'm just
gonna give kind of the fact pattern of something that
I saw this week. So I had a consult with
his family, and older guy and his wife and his
friends called us because his one son lives in Texas
or something. And this gentleman ran into issues because I
(27:54):
think he was in a tree cutting a limb and
I don't know the mechanics of how it happened, but
I think he fell out of the tree essentially. Yeah,
and now he's paralyzed because of it. And they were
wanting to talk to us about doing some planning and
getting some Medicaid and all that good stuff. And you know,
one of the first things I had to ask was
do you have a power of attorney in a health
(28:15):
care proxy and will? And they didn't have any of it.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
So let me just add to the list of do nots. Yeah,
do not get on a roof if you're over seventy five. Yes, okay,
we've had that problem.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yes, So so you know, I'm not saying that it
was that they should have envisioned that he would have
been injured in that way, right, But stuff can happen.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I mean, we have a friend who's good friend's father
died when a tree fell on him that they were cutting, like,
died Yeah, yeah, I think he was in his fifties.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Yeah, that's that's allfol So, you.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Know, maybe think what you're doing, right, I mean, accidents happen, right,
that's what these documents are intended for.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yeah, for accidents, yes, agree with.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
That, you know, so they're there when needed.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yeah, I mean, thankfully, this gentleman is very competent. Still,
it's all physical issues he's dealing with, So he's well
enough to do documents now to help deal with the
issues they are now being confronted with. But if you
play that scenario out, how you know, X number of
times they might be dealing with a passing rather than
(29:27):
you know, a physical ailment, or he could have just
become just as disabled mentally as he currently is physically,
and that would that would be a much different perspective
as to how that's to be dealt with from a
legal perspective.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, I mean, and that's an important distinction, right, Physical
disability doesn't mean mental disability.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Yeah, yeah, right, And in this case, like I said,
he would, we had a very nice chat. He was
giving me all correct answers. He could he could, you know,
very easily talk about the things he owned and the
people in his life and who he trusted and what
he wanted. So there was really any doubt as to capacity.
But that doesn't always mean that that's the case. But yes,
(30:05):
to Aaron's point, just because you're physically disabled does not
mean mentally you you that you are.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
So in those situations, at least where the person has
mental capacity, we can still do documents, right, We can
still do not involve a court with a guardianship right, right,
which is a positive I do guardianship work.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
I don't want you to have to do a guardianship.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
No, I say it always is as a positive thing.
But you never want to meet Aaron in a guardianship
context because that just generally means that things have gone
wrong and they could get messy, and they could, they're
so and they're going to be more expensive than.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yes, they're absolutely going to be.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Then if then, if other things had happened, or other
steps had been taken, or other contingencies planned for. That's
just that's just the nature of the game.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Right, I mean a plan generally speaking, is going to
be a third to a fifth of what it's going
to cost to do that guardianship.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Yeah, that's that's that's probably banking to a degree that
there are no.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Fights, big fights, right, Like.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
If there are fights, that always gets worse from a
cost perspective.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
A garden.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yes, a contested guardianship could go into a six figure number,
right does it all the time?
Speaker 3 (31:17):
No?
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Absolutely not, but it can. It has so we we
don't want you to be in that situation. And to
get to that number to be cleared, there has to
be a lot of things at issue and a lot
of assets at risk.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
So, but it does happen.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Yeah, I mean part of the whole guardianship equation, if
you will, is obviously what's what's what assets are at stake?
And right, you know obviously the judge is going to
be very cognizant of that.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yes, there are very few cases where there's no assets
at risk end up being highly litigated because people have
to throw their own money at it, right, and you
know that may make sense to them, it may not,
so having that power of itttorney and healthcare proxy is critical.
The power of attorney is definitely the more complicated of
(32:06):
the two documents has to be done correctly.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
As we have probably said on the show a million times,
we will continue ad.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Infinite say we've had a million and one shows and
we've probably said that a million times.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Right, So don't print it off the internet and do
it yourself.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Don't do it, I agree, Just the likelihood of it
being done correctly, if that's the avenue you're taking, it's
just it's very small.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I haven't seen it.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
I say, I'm not sure that I have either, and
if I have, it's two or three times for the many,
many many documents that have come in like that that
are not good and not sufficient.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
It might be legally valid, but it wouldn't do what
you needed to do.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Yeah, that's the problem, right.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Yeah, So that just is a fail all around. You know,
as we have often said, don't have your DWI lawyer
do your power of attorney either.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
And I always get I don't know, angry might be
the right word. Your your DEUI lawyer shouldn't be taking
that case honestly, at least in my opinion. I agree
they they're free to run their business as they don't,
get me wrong, But if you don't know what you're
doing from an attorney standpoint, you shouldn't be taking the case.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Well, I think when it happens not a defense of that,
I agree with you one hundred percent. Is that a
lot of people are solos, or they go to a
solo yes, right, or you know, two person law firm
and they not in a position to turn much business away.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Yeah, And I don't understand it.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
But that that doesn't mean it's a good decision.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Right because I've never excuse me, I've never practiced in
that area for a firm like that. So I do
understand from a business perspective how that might be something.
But on the other hand, you shouldn't be taking the
case if you don't really know what you're doing, right. No.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
I did maybe intern in law school with a solo
at one point, but that I have never been attracted
to that form of business. You know what, There's lots
of benefits to dealing with the firm, right, And I
think this is one of the things that people don't
again think about, is a.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Firm is likely to go on for a long period
of time.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
That's the hope, right, right, I.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Mean generally it may end up getting bought by a
larger firm or merging with a firm. That happens, right,
We're certainly not planning to do any of that, but
there's some place where your documents go.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
We've done the states for small time, small town attorneys.
I don't want to call them small time, but maybe
they were also a small time.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
But small time that kept wills in a barn, literally
in a bar.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I think I heard, I think I remember you saying that.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah, so you know, it gets difficult.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
We've had people whose attorneys have retired and they we can't.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Find the original will.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Yeah, that's not great.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
No, and it more often than not, the original will matters, right,
especially if it's not descendants.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah, and Frank, can you just clarify my lawyer talk.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I can, so, descendants per sturpies essentially just means equally
amongst your children. And if you have any of your
children pass away, their their chair, that child share goes
to their children, if they have any right.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
So if everybody's getting a quarter they pass away, they
have two kids, the two kids split the quarter.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Right, Right, that's the most common way people tend to
divide their assets. But I would never say it's the
right way to do it. The right way is how
you want to do it.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
It's certainly not the only way.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Yeah, that's the most common way people tend to do it.
Most people treat their family equally and they want everyone
to be on the same page and on the same
footing and things.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Right.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
That doesn't mean that's the right way to do it
for any one particular.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
And I often people want us to tell them what
to do, right, and we don't really do that. I
have to say, I don't know your children. Yeah, right,
you have to. But if there's a reason, I want
to know oftentimes what the reason is, right, yep. And
if it's this person hasn't talked to me in twenty years, Well,
(36:16):
if you don't you want to cut them out, great, Yeah,
if you don't want to, fine.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
It's your choice.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I probably would, but you know that's me.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Yeah. I had a very nice chat with a with
a former client just just a few days ago, and
she asked, what do you think I should do? And
I said, I can't answer that for you. It's not
my decision what you do. It's my decision to give
you advice and counsel regarding what you want to do. Right,
So why don't you tell me what you think you
want to do and then we'll talk about if that's
(36:43):
going to work, or if there are other other alternatives
or better ways to do it or whatever. But it's
not my job to tell you that, right.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
And you know, I had a long discussion about someone
who was not going to be.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Good with money.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
Yeah, which is important, pot beneficiary, important fact to know.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
This person evidently was once given twenty five hundred dollars
and then they quit their job.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Oh okay, okay, so there's some sort of lack.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Of reasonableness unless they have a lot of independent money themselves.
That was enough, That was enough? Okay, Yeah, hey, good luck.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yes, that's so we had to set up a different.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Type of how they were inheriting. Right.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
So that's the other thing people don't think of. It's
nice and neat to give everybody everything the same way. Right,
you got three kids, you're going to go a third,
a third, a third in trust for all of them outright,
to all of them.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Whatever. But that may not really be.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
The best idea, especially from people that have maybe financial
issues going on with either it's Deb's divorce, you know,
or just bad decision making ability.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Yes, I mean where Frank is mister medicaid, I might
be mister unit trust because I feel like I'm the
only one that really uses unit trusts a lot.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Yeah, I'm just trying to think of I mean, the
alliteration isn't as good, but it's not. But you know,
uncle unit trust sounds not great?
Speaker 1 (38:08):
No, no, so.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
We'll workshop it. Yeah yeah, but yeah, no, if anyone
in the firm enjoys a good unit trust, that would
be aaron.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
So just to explain what that means is and you
can set it up. So let's just say you put
one hundred thousand into unit trust. You set a number
that comes out every year. Let's say five or six percent.
Could be ten percent, but that would be high. Yeah,
depends on what your goal is, right, So let's say
it's six percent. That person gets six percent of the
(38:40):
one hundred thousand every year, six hundred thousand or I'm sorry,
six thousand. They get five hundred dollars a month. If
you want to do it annually, right, yep, you want
to that higher. But what a unit trust does is
it doesn't matter whether there's what the principal and income
is can be invested for total return, meaning that you
don't have to invest for income, right, you can invest
(39:01):
for growth and.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
It's just going to spit out the same amount every year.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Also makes life easier for the trustee because their discretion
is limited.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Yeah, they don't have to make any choices.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
There's always going to be what we call a hem
standard where you can get extra money health education, maintenance support,
but that's really more limited than it sounds, yes, and
so that's just something we like to keep in mind.
It's a way to help people and maybe not put
your kids at odds.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Right, when there's a situation where a unit trust makes
a lot of sense.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
I mean a lot of people might say, I want
my child or my grandchild or you know, my loved
one to get this money, but I just don't want
to give it to them all at once, right because
I'm afraid of what that will look like to them
if they have all this money just sitting in a pile. Right,
that's a good way.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
To do it, exactly, all right, we're going to take
our last break here, Well, we come back, we'll give
you some last ideas for your Christmas plan. I'm Aaron
Connor from Pierre O'Connor and Strauss, and we back right
after this Welcome Back to Life Happens Radio. Aaron Connor
still of Pier O'connorance Trous, Frank Hemming still of Pier o'connorance.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Trous here for the last segment.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
That's right, at least through this week.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Wow, that's very nice of you. Thank you so much
for the Frankly, if I may say that the security.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
I think Frank and I have a long time of
dealing with each other.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Yet to go, So yeah, I think that's all right though.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Yeah, I'm good with it.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah, we wouldn't have made it this long if that
probably wasn't gonna work out, That's right, I would.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Think, right, I got it about nineteen years left on
my plan, not that you're counting, you know, does go
through my what was always over twenty.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Frank, Yeah, yeah, oh right, I guess that's true, right.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Or it does kind of seem like a little bit
of a milestone.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Congratulations, I'm happy for you.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
You can retire in nineteen years.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Great, I mean that's just the goal I've set for myself,
the number, right, I think you got to have a number.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
I watch people and they're like and like, if you
don't really have a time, doesn't mean it won't can't change,
it might change.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Lou will probably never retire.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
Not completely or at least you know. Yeah, I kind
of believe it when I see it.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Yeah, I don't. I don't see it, and that's fine,
that's what he wants to do. I have no problem
with that, but I would like to be retired.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Yeah, at some point, I'm just going to be done,
I think. Yeah, it's even longer than you so well hopefully.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Right, Well you haven't been at it as long as that's.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
I'm saying, hopefully yeah right, But so yeah, at some point,
I just I think I'm just going to be done.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Right, I mean, well, you're essentially almost exactly ten years younger.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
Than me, that's yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah, so twenty eight is years, frank, or maybe you know,
thirty ish years whatever you want.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
To do whatever. Yeah, my wife had might have thoughts
about this.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
I'm sure she does.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
I don't know they're good or bad thoughts, but she
might have thoughts.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
About her well, don't forget that my wife will be
retired for probably ten years before I retire.
Speaker 3 (42:02):
So yeah, no, my my wife is a state employee
as well, and she's she's already said like, how how
much longer she has till she can get out? So
I don't know what she'll be doing. But I don't
think it'll just be sitting around retired. I can't see
that for my wife.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
But yeah, my wife is under ten years. I mean
it might not be nine. Yeah, I mean it's under
ten do you know what I mean? It might be
nine in change or.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
I mean, I don't know what the math is exactly,
but it's you know.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
Yeah, my wife's number is lower than mine. At least
you get to be out of her current job. Again,
doesn't means she doesn't find something else to.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Do, correct, So we digress.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
But maybe the gift of planning for yourself is having
a time when you figure out when.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
You said that's actually it's actually on point. Yeahh I mean,
I'd love to think that it's closer than it is.
But at the same time, like, don't wish your life away,
right right, right, Like I have some plans, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I got plenty of bad decisions to make between that.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
And just just you wait and see.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
So ultimately, I think the best plan you can make
for your loved ones.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Is to have a trust.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Okay, whether that be revocable or revocable is going to
depend on your situation.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
So I'm going to go back to I had a
nice chat with an elderly former client of ours and
so her husband passed away just about a year ago.
Because she told me we had just gotten passed to
think of the year mark and she just went through
probate for her husband, and she said, you know, I
might want to update my will, and I know lots
of people have said I should do a trust, and
(43:31):
I need you to tell me what to do. And
I said, I can't do that for you, but I
can give you advice and give you options, and then
you have to decide what you want to do exactly.
And we talked about, you know, changing maybe her beneficieries
a little bit, and some other thoughts she was having.
And then she said, well, what's the if you could,
you know, make this as easy as you can for me.
What's the easiest thing to do to make this easy
(43:54):
for my family? And I said, you should do some
type of trust, depending on what you want to accomplish
with a trust. And she said, why is that, And
I said, well, you just went through the probate process
with your husband's stuff. If you do, if all you
do is update your will, you are doing exactly the
same thing that you just did to your daughter when
something happens to you exactly So if you have no
(44:16):
problem with that, then updating your will would would be
a good step towards getting your affairs more in line
with your current thinking. If you do not want that
to happen to your daughter, then you should not just
do a will. You should talk with us about doing
a trust. We'll see what she says, because she was
going to think it over and talk to her daughter.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
So well, I can just say that when people come
in and we have to go through probate, it's not
it's not lovely, right. It might not be terrible. Yeah,
in some cases it is terrible. Someone's cut out, or
there's some problems, or there's a medicaid lean. Yeah, there's
some other kind of debt.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Right.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
The other scenario, you do more of these consultations in
this work than I do. But the other scenario that
it's probably less likely or at least if people are
taking our advice, hopefully it's not as bad as this.
But I envision there are probate cases that we have
and have seen and will take ones in the future
where literally everything is in the estate, right and you know,
whether it's a house or other properties, and you know
(45:17):
there were no beneficiaries, no co ownerships on things, and
literally everything is locked in the estate. So like you're
looking at all of these things and money and assets
and whatever, and there's no ability to use really any
of them to deal with the ongoing problems throughout the
probate process.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Yes, so when you do a trust, we don't have
to do that, right, And I always joke that your
kids can wait till the day after you're gone to
sell the house, right, which they technically could do. That's
not typically what happens, you know, But you don't need
to work on a court schedule. You can work on
your own schedule, and sometimes most of the time that
(45:52):
allows more ability to grieve. First of all, yeah, right,
because the probate process extends that. And if it's a
contest probate process, well then I don't know if you've
ever really get to grieve. Yeah, So all of those
are important things in life and you having a life.
(46:14):
People are often surprised how smooth the administration of a
trust can be if you haven't been through it. And
I'm sure I've said this several times on the air.
We predominantly have two types of clients. People whose parents
did everything wrong and the other said, people whose parents
did everything right. Yes, there's some blend in the middle, right,
(46:34):
but not a lot.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
Yeah, I would say that it's true.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
So if you've been through a disaster probate, you don't
want to put your beneficiaries your family through that.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
And I think to be fair because I I think
I want to be fair. I have had certain clients,
not many, but I have had clients or perspective clients
that I've talked to that said, so and so had
a trust, it was awful. I don't want to do that.
But then usually there's some differences between that situation plus
the one that we're probably pitching to them. Yeah, because like,
(47:05):
just for an example, I have seen irrevocable trusts that
I would say are not drafted very well and that
are very difficult to manage and deal with.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Sure, they are out there.
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Our trusts, I don't feel like are that.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
No at all, don't think so at all.
Speaker 3 (47:19):
But I could understand why maybe somebody has had that
experience and might have those feelings about it. But it
doesn't mean that things couldn't be differentiated between that scenario
and maybe the one that we're proposing.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
So I just finished a plan for people that moved
here from another state and they had a revocable trust
from that state. Okay, And I said, what's in this
revocable trust? Oh no, I said nothing great. And I said, okay,
So we have a person whose entire job is trust
(47:52):
funding coordination. Yep, Okay, your trust is already partially funded
because you just signed the deed putting your property into
the trust.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
You're already you're already doing better than you did.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Right.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
So I feel like when people think that a trust
didn't work out, it's because the funding wasn't followed up
on ninety five percent.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Of the time.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
Yeah, that's I would tend to agree. That's that's usually
the issue if there is one with a trust.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
So, and I will give Lou credit. This was Lou's
idea that we have a paralegal just dedicated to this
trust funding process, and it is important because the trust
is only as valuable as it is funded.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
Yeah, until you actually title things into the trust, move
things into the trust, however you want to phrase it,
because it's all it's kind of the same thing, right,
You just have a big stack of paper that you
probably handed a lawyer quite a bit of money to
give to you, but isn't actually doing anything for you.
Why do that?
Speaker 2 (48:49):
So we're coming up on the end of the show again.
Happy holidays to everybody, whether it's Hanka, Christmas, Kwanza, Festivus,
anything I've forgotten.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
And obviously safe traveling, you know, if you're traveling, whether
it's longer, it's close to whatever.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Weather it looks okay, yeah, you know, thanks so thankfully.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
No, No, that was me knocking on what No, big
storm's coming because I.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
As the older I get, the more I hate the winner.
But that's just me.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
I just don't like cleaning it up, that's right, that's
my thing.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Yes, So if any of these needs arise, please give
us a call at the office.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
It's five one eight four five nine. Consultation is free.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
We'll be happy to look at your situation and give
you a plan and tell you what that would cost.
You can also send an email to info at puro
law dot com. That's p I e r r law
dot com and we will have one more show before
the new year.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
So we will talk to you then.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Everybody, have a great holiday, Thanks very much, Aaron Connor,
Frank coming, Pierre O'Connor and Strauss
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