"Insure your Love, Ensure Your Legacy!", Hosts: Lou Pierro, Bob Vandy, and Dave Kopyck

February 8th, 2025.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
And good morning everyone. Welcome to Life Happens Radio. We
are here this morning to talk with a couple of
old friends and some familiar faces and names radio.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Not the faces.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Well, well, longtime friends. Let's let's rephrase excuse me, your honor,
you must be talking.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Let me rephrase that.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
So we have today a discussion, and it's a very
relevant discussion. I hope you stay with us for the hour,
and I hope you join us every Saturday morning now
at nine o'clock. We're on at nine am, as opposed
to eleven, which was our old time, and we're very
happy to be here today.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Carry over from the last show. We had David.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Kopekn with us a couple of weeks ago, and we
thought it was just a phenomenal discussion. So we invited
Dave back, and we invited one of our old amigos
to one of the three amigos from the old days,
mister Bob Vandy. Good morning, Bob, Good morning, Lewis, and
good morning Dave.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Good morning. I was thinking this morning. It's funny you
say that. I was thinking this morning. How long have
I known you guys? It's third years.

Speaker 4 (01:01):
When he said, when he said old he wasn't kitting Dad.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
You're the only guy at Eddie that has an aged
talk't about how the hell you're doing it.

Speaker 5 (01:10):
That's why I got my checkers on my website.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, well, you know, I didn't ask him yet, but
he probably just came from the gym I did to
get here, and David, that's how you do it.

Speaker 5 (01:19):
Yeah, No, you're right, You're right.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
You get into the gym every morning, and uh boy,
you stay young a little bit. So we're here today,
folks to talk about financial planning and long term care
planning and they go hand in hand as we age.
As we like to say on the show, we talk
about aging and look at what the risks are as
we go through life. And we're lawyers at pier O'Connor

(01:42):
and Strauss. I practice law. I've been doing it forty
years and I've watched my clients struggle with the challenges
of care as we age long term care. How do
you protect your your nest egg? How do you protect
all the things that David and his crew were talking
about on the prior show. Building up that wealth, building
up those assets, that's good offense, building your portfolio, your

(02:06):
four oh one Kira your outside investments, your annuities. But
then when it comes time that you need care. And folks,
if we live long enough, what are the odds Bob.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
Well, depends which statistic you look at, but better than half.
Let's put it that way.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
We'll need something and the care today, and we're going
to talk in detail about it, and we'll talk about
some cases that we've been working on, some things that
we've been doing.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
But the cost of care.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
If you want to go out and find somebody to
take care of your mom or yourself in your home,
you're going to pay something in the order of thirty
five to forty dollars an hour to get service.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Right now, do the math, folks, If you need.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Eight hours a day, ten hours a day, ten's a
good When I can do that math, that's three hundred
and fifty dollars a.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Day times three sixty five. We're talking about big numbers.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
And if you need twenty four to seven care and
you need to pay it privately, it's over two hundred
fifty thousand dollars a year. Who is prepared for that,
who has built up enough income to pay two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars a year? And nursing home costs
are right about there, you know, seventeen eighteen thousand dollars

(03:18):
a month for a nursing home who has built up
their nest egg and Bob, you are with advisors insurance brokers.
Talk a little bit about what you do and what
you've done and the career that you've had in helping
people plan for this.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
I appreciate it, Lou, and great to be back with you.
Good to be back in the studio, Dave, Good be
on here with you. Yeah, we're we like you, Lou,
have been doing this a long time. The firm was
founded back in nineteen ninety one ninety two, and when
it was founded, it was actually founded as an insurance
broker's firm, meaning we have a ton of different insurance
carriers whose products that we make available to people like

(03:55):
Dave Kopek and insurance agents and financial advisors out there,
so when they're doing their financial planning for their clients,
they can take off the shelf the product that's the
most appropriate fit for that client situation. And we started
as specifically a long term care planning firm and a
long term care insurance brokerage firm.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Known as New York Long Term Care brokers. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:15):
And in fact, our timing was good because that was
right around the time that that little thing called the
New York State Partnership for Long Term Care came out.
And I think you might want to talk about that.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
We have a policy sitting in my hands here that's
a partnership policy, and we're going to talk about how
that worked. You can't buy it anymore, but if you
have one, we'll talk about how it's working now. But
more importantly, how the marketplace has evolved. But continue, Yeah, no,
no problem.

Speaker 4 (04:40):
Yeah, it's the market has, let's say, evolved, that's for sure.
And I say that with a smile on my face,
or at least a half smile. As things have progressed,
products have become more varied in terms of those that
fund the types of solutions that you were describing about. Hey,
how do I not only play offense with the type

(05:00):
of things that Dave and his firm do, but then
how do I play defense?

Speaker 2 (05:03):
I guess it's Super Bowl weekend. We can use the
hand why not?

Speaker 4 (05:06):
And when it comes to playing defense, how do I
have a pot of money that I can tap into
to offset at least some of those costs that you
were describing that absent any planning could lead to some crisis.
Work that needs to be done that you do every day.
We want to make sure that people put themselves in
the best possible position they can.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
And David, this goes hand in glove with what you're
doing as a financial advisor because you have to look
at the clients not just today, but five, ten, twenty, thirty,
forty years from now. What is their financial future going
to look like? So you work with people like Bob
to make those coverages available. Just talk a little bit
about how that fits into the overall financial plan.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Well, it's probably the biggest turtle, Lou that we face
this financial advisors is when you bring the topic up,
it's almost like, you know, they start gagging at the
conference table. I mean, are really most people don't even
want to talk about it long term care planning. The
ones that do talk about it typically the ones that
have had history, that have it, you know, life experiences.
You know, like you say in your advertisement your promotion,

(06:09):
life happens, I happen to be a caregiver my wife
and I for six and a half years.

Speaker 5 (06:13):
I know that you were in the same situation. I
believe with your mom.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yep, eight years. It's not a fun trip. It's not
a fun trip. And if you don't understand it, you
better understand it real quick because those numbers that you
just gave out are staggering. When you've got to start
paying those bills and you and I and Bob. No,
most individuals are uninsured or don't have the capability of
paying those types of bills.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah, when the client sits down and someone and it
doesn't happen, Oh, let's find a nursing home. A lot
of times it just gets thrust upon you. In the
case that I'm going to mention, it's not even a
local nursing home. You go through the hospital, they tell
you that you have to discharge. They don't really give
you a discharge plan. They give you a list of

(06:59):
nursing homes.

Speaker 4 (07:00):
Pick one and they're low discharging and saying, oh, by
the way, you can't go home, yes, because you can't
be on.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Your own correct. Correct.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
So home is where everyone wants to be. We'll talk
about that and how to plan for that. But in
many cases it's we cannot discharge you home. It is
an unsafe discharge. There's no help in the home. You
can't find people to hire. And that's one of the
problems that we have in today's world. And we're going
to discharge you. And oh, by the way, to get
into that nursing home, you've got to give them a
full financial disclosure. You have to open up the kimono,

(07:32):
as we say, and show them everything you've got. And
your first check is going to be about thirty five
thousand dollars because that's one month plus a month of security.
And when the client sit down and say I just
wrote a check for thirty five thousand dollars and I'm
gonna have to write checks every month for seventeen five
hundred dollars every month for the next how many years?

Speaker 2 (07:56):
That's painful. That is painful.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
If you're not prepared for that, that aha.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Moment is not a happy one.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
No, it's a staggering It's a staggering amountain. I've seen people.
I've told you last time I would throw it. There
was a lot of tiers at the conference table for
what was transpiring, what was going to happen. But this
is what I You know, you and I both know,
and my Bobby understands this too. Your zip code is
extremely important where you're going to live in retirement because
certain states and certain counties have different rules and regulations

(08:26):
as far as assets that are protected from a long
term care. And you better know what that zip code
and that geographic location you're going to live in and
the type of services that are provided, because if you don't,
you could really be in a whole lot of hurt.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
And we're going to talk a little bit about a
profession that has kind of grown up sprung up in there.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
It's interesting.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
We've had an agency locally that I that I helped
start several years ago called ever Home Care Advisors. And
these are they used to be called geriatric care managers.
Now they're called life care coordinators, but they help people
navigate in the neighborhood in which they lived there.

Speaker 5 (09:03):
So well, you know, I was going to ask you
real quick, and we got to go to a break.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
But the thing is is that with technology today, loop
and cameras and all the gadgets and gizmos that are
currently out there, I would imagine that that's accelerating as
far as the protection that you can provide.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Oh yeah, absolutely, And that this group ever Home has
a product called Viva Links that we've been developing over
the years and it's kind of hitting the marketplace and
we're out in different places. You'll see it more and
more and more as care has to evolve because you
don't have the human hands with the number of hours
that are available to take care of people, so you

(09:38):
have to supplement that and improve and enhance the care
that can be given. And technology and AI, believe it
or not, are all playing in on this. But when
people start looking at Okay, I'm on a block that
has a city bus line, so I have a home
health agency that has aids that can take a city
bus to service me in my house. But I live

(10:00):
a mile from that and there is no bus line,
and that agency says, no, I cannot service your case.
It gets down to that granularity, block by block, house
by house, what's available. So having professionals come in and
bob the one benefit in a long term care insurance policy.
I just wanted to highlight they have a care coordination

(10:21):
benefit in most of those contracts and just talk a
little bit about that and how that works well.

Speaker 4 (10:27):
One of the things we're talking about, Lou is the
fact that when this comes up. We're in crisis mode.
You know a lot of times it is you know,
mom is in the hospital and has just been told
that she's going to be discharged, but she can't go
home because she can't be on her own for any
number of either physical or emotional or cognitive reasons. So

(10:47):
you're in that crisis mode when the family then has
to step in. And I'm using this as an example
of course family has to step in. We don't intuitively
know what are the next steps. Where do I go
to find that proper caregiver to help mom out? And
so the care Coordination benefit is intended to help with
exactly that. Okay, I've got this policy, and it's going

(11:09):
to pay X amount of dollars per day or per
month to help offset the financial part of what we
were talking about. But that's all well and good. Where
do I go? I don't know what home care agency
to call. So the care Coordination benefit is there to
help guide them and give them a resource to help
point them in the right direction to find appropriate care.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
And that's one of the things that ever Home provides,
and there are other agencies that provide that. But the
good thing about it and these policies.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
We'll talk a little bit.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
About long term care insurance now because it's on the table.
They have something called an elimination period and which explain, explain,
explain it.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
To me, Bobby, Yeah, how does that work?

Speaker 4 (11:46):
I don't know who thinks of these these terminology pieces
that we put in policies. The way that I liken
it to a deductible, it's essentially a deductible. Think about
your homeowner's insurance, where Okay, my homeowner's insurance is going
to kick in after I pay X five dollars, thousand
dollars whatever you're deductible on your homeowners assurance might be
x percent of your value of your home more often

(12:07):
here lately, So it's really like that. It's how much
do once I've triggered benefits, once I've I've met the
qualification guideline for that long term care insurance policy. Typically
it's thirty or ninety days or the most common. Sometimes
you'll see one hundred days, sometimes you'll see twenty days.
Those are the most common ones, and that's the number
of days that typically I have to pay out a

(12:28):
pocket before the policy will start kicking in. And there
are two variances there. There's there's one called a calendar
day elimination period. It just gets better, I know, it's
so exciting. And then there's a service day elimination period. Now,
the service day is the one where I actually have
to pay out of pocket and substantiate to the insurance

(12:48):
carrier that I've paid.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
That number qualified expense.

Speaker 4 (12:51):
Qualified expenses for the thirty days or the ninety days,
and every day that I pay that I write a
check is one tick mark that reduces that ninety down
to zero.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
And you can't pay cash now, which a lot of
people do. They've hired an AID and they bring them
in and they're paying them cash under the table, and
the person doesn't.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Want to go on the books, so now what he'd do?

Speaker 4 (13:11):
Yeah, that's I mean, they you have to have standardization
obviously in these types of contracts. So yeah, it has
to be generally speaking, and their different policies have different wording,
but it typically has to be somebody who is working
within a home agency environment, home care agency environment. Some
policies will allow some flexibility there, you know, without digging
into the weeds too much. But the other type of

(13:32):
elimination period, which is actually better is calendar day elimination period.
And that simply means that I don't necessarily have to
write a check for every day once I've met the
qualification guidelines. The calendar, the big red X is on
the calendar start and every day that goes by from
that date that I've substantiated that I meet the criteria,
they put the big red X on the calendar.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
So it brings up an interesting point, and that is
that this is a sixty page contract and it takes
a lawyer to read the contract and to parse out
the terms because as you said, there's no standardization in
some of this, and you have to really read what
that contract requires and what it provides. In a good
combination of an elder law attorney and a care coordinator

(14:18):
can put this to work for you and get these
benefits started because people struggle.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
Well, and the other part of it, and I think
you may talk about this with the case that we
were talking about before we came on air, is sometimes
people have a reluctance to actually get the clock going.

Speaker 5 (14:32):
They absolutely they don't want to want Bobby, That's.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
That's a good one to break on.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Because I want to jump back into the end of that,
and we're going to take a short break and come back.
I have David Kopick, Bob Vandy, I'm Lou Piro. This
is a discussion you don't want to miss if you're
thinking about long term care. We're going to talk about
the marketplace today life insurance products that cover long term
care and all the creative things that you can do
in your financial in your legal plan, with your insurance

(15:03):
plan where life happens.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Radio every Saturday morning, nine am on.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
WGY will be right back care insurance, insurance and having
a policy that covers this risk ninety days, which is
a very common elimination period. And if you're paying two
three hundred dollars a day, you're on the hook for
ninety days, So be prepared to pay that out of
pocket before you get to your policy.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
But you mentioned it, Bob.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
People have these contracts that they've been paying on for ten, twenty, thirty,
forty years, and now they have an issue. Someone's just
gotten a diagnosis, they need home health care, they need
help bathing, dressing, you know, all the things that the
activities of daily living. And they say, well, you know,
I'm not going to file my claim yet. I'm just
going to hunker down and pay it privately because I
might need.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
The policy later. Just talk a little bit about that nonsense.

Speaker 4 (15:53):
Well, it's it's kind of human nature as well. It
boils down to lou but it's it's not what you
want to do. Once you have determined through typically through
your health care provider, your doctor, a nurse, a nurse practitioner,
medical social worker, once you've determined that it looks like
you probably do qualify for benefits, start the clock, start

(16:14):
the clock, get it going. In fact, even if you're
not necessarily paying out a pocket right now for care,
you kind of want to make the insurance company aware
of it. Better to have it and not need it
than need it and not have it. Now, you were
describing earlier loud, the situation where you know what happens
to go into the nursing home, for example, I'm there

(16:34):
for X number of years. Statistically speaking, more often than not,
I'm not going to be in the nursing home for
five or ten years. Statistically speaking, care either in a
home environment or in a nursing home environment, it's two
and a half to three years. But that's the average.
You never know what side of average, you're going to

(16:55):
be on right. So let's say that I am average
and I do need care for two and a half years,
but I waited to get my policy going. You don't
want to do that. You never know what the future
is going to hold, So you want to get the
clock ticking and put the insurance company on notice and
be ready to take the benefit from the policy, even

(17:15):
if you feel like maybe you don't quote unquote need
it today.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah, one more question on that, and then I want
to turn a Dave because you sound like you have
some experience here too, David. When you're on home care
and you don't need the full homecare benefit, Let's say
have three hundred dollars a day of home care benefit,
you only need one hundred dollars a day.

Speaker 4 (17:32):
What happens to the other two hundred stays in the
pot of money. Typically, now, it depends on the type
of policy you have. There's two different ways that the
policies will pay benefits. One is called reimbursement, and as
the name indicates, it would reimburse me in your example,
lou it would reimburse me that hundred bucks a day.
But the other, if policy benefit is two hundred and fifty.

(17:53):
The other one hundred and fifty doesn't evaporate. It stays
in my policy to potentially be used later on. So
you stretch itch.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
And it's more than three years or six years or
whatever the benefit is, it could last ten years.

Speaker 4 (18:04):
Correct Now. The other type is called indemnity or cash indemnity.
I like and love and in that instance, no matter
what you're paying out of pocket, whatever your daily or
monthly benefit is, that's what gets paid. And if it's
more than what your actual cost of care is, you
can do whatever you want with the difference.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
And Dave, when you got excess cash flow coming in,
what do you do with it?

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Well?

Speaker 5 (18:25):
I usually try to have some fun.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Well, in this case you might be limited.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
But if you have money coming in on an indemnity
contract and you have three hundred dollars a day coming in,
you only need two hundred, you bank the other one
hundred and you set it aside and it's cash. Yeah,
it's your money to use however you want to use it.
So indemnity contracts are absolutely the way to go when
you're buying. If you have the choice, shop for an
indemnity contract. But David, this human nature. This tendency to

(18:54):
want to just keep that policy in your pocket not
use it.

Speaker 5 (18:57):
It is well, it really boils down to a couple
of things.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
I think fear and anxiety and acceptance of this is
where I am at the stage of my life, and
a lot of people don't like to think that things
are not as good as it used to be. And
you look in the mirror and you start saying to yourself,
is that you know as the grim reaper going to
show up around the corner in a very short period

(19:25):
of time. I mean for me, for me personally, because
I've dealt with this with so many people. I've been
doing it for so long, pre imposed retail. I think
it basically typical typically and symbolizes an impending death that
you know, I'm on my way out the door, and
it's powerful, and I think people are fearful of that,

(19:46):
and they're going to stretch it as long as they
can to basically say, you know what, I don't need
it because I'm going to get better. I don't need
it because I'm not as bad as you think I am.
Because I've seen it. I can't tell you how many
times I've seen this.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, I have the classic case.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
Women came into my office with her mom and the
mom's in a wheelchair, and they came in for a
legal consultation and I started talking to them about asset protection,
trust and setting assets aside and getting mom on Medicaid
and getting home care. And she said, and we've been
considering canceling this insurance contract. I said, what insurance contract?
It is like an hour into the console, what insurance

(20:21):
contract would that be? And she pulls out a New
York State partnership policy that mom had been paying on
for thirty years. And they were saying, well, she can't
afford the premiums anymore, so we're going to just let
the contract lapse. And I said, okay, so here are
the six things you told me Mom can't do. She's
eligible for a benefit on that policy. And what happens

(20:43):
when you file a claim for benefits, Bob to your premium.

Speaker 4 (20:46):
The premiums go away. There's a waiver of premium benefit
in almost every long term care insurance contract that says
if you're on claimed, you don't have to pay premium.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
So here's someone with mom in a wheelchair thinking this
contract isn't worse.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
Bobby can I interact and interject something, Yeah, I apologize
for over you.

Speaker 5 (21:06):
I don't know if.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
That's true or not, because my understanding is that if
you're getting home care, the premium stops if you're going
into a facility with some of the policies, but if
you're receiving home care, the premium doesn't stop.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
Again, it depends on the policy day. Most policies will
waive it if you're receiving care, but there could be
policies that depending on the type of care you're receiving it,
there might be a distinction.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
The ones I've seen.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Partnership policies waive the premium as soon as the claim
goes in, so people in that situation say, well, I'm
going to just not pay the premium and I'm not
going to file the claim. Now the claims for USS
Bob is no.

Speaker 4 (21:44):
Picnic, no no it h And where the part of
the challenge comes in is and this is where it
gets to the contract language.

Speaker 5 (21:53):
Right.

Speaker 4 (21:53):
There has been some standardization loose, especially since ninety six
and HIPPOC came out, but it's.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Still a contract.

Speaker 4 (22:00):
It's still not a picnic to read through the thing,
and it can be very confusing, there's no question about it.
But that standardization is there such that if you meet
the criteria. The challenge that we have is that we
see it as mom needs help. Mom needs help, so
I should be able to tap into this long term
care policy, but you do. There are specific requirements. Generally speaking,

(22:22):
part of that standardization is I have to be unable
to perform at least two of those ADLs activities of
daily living the bathing, eating, dressing, toileting, transferring, and continents.
Or I have a cognitive impairment, so maybe I've got
early on set Alzheimer's, or maybe I just have Alzheimer's.
The trigger there is do I represent a danger to

(22:43):
myself or others? And the analogy that I often use
is it's one thing if I put the keys in
the freezer and I forget they're in there. It's another
thing if I forget the pot of boiling water on
the stove. That's a problem. The keys in the freezer.
Contrary to what we may think, not so much about them.
I did that last well, you know, let me just
tell your keyser in the freezer.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Day you came in and you needed to make that
drink really really that's right there.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
They are you just throughrab the ice cubes.

Speaker 4 (23:09):
So the point there is, yeah, the contract language is
important and you've got to make sure that you meet
that qualification. And as part of the claims process, that's
where a lot of the frustration comes from sometimes loop
and that's.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Where care coordinators are so valuable because they know how
to read the contract, they know how to talk to
your doctor, assemble all of your medical records, and in
many of the policies, you need a written plan of
care for home cost of them to get the benefits,
and a qualified professional. And the people in these companies
like ever Home are physical therapists, occupational therapists, are ins masters,

(23:43):
and social work. They're licensed professionals who can write that
plan of care and help you collect your benefit. So
those are the things that people think about when they
have policies. We're going to come back after the break
and talk about what you should be looking for today.
If you want to protect that nest egg, if you're
building for retirement and you want to play a little
bit of defense, you could hire Steve Spagnola and try

(24:05):
to stop.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Zax eagles, or you can.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
You can hire somebody to look at the right insurance
product like Dave Bob and look at putting in place
protection for you and your family.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
We'll talk about it when.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
We come back after the news brought to you by
piero'connor and Strauss, and I just want to give the
law firm a little plug here.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Some educational events that are coming up real soon.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Monday and Tuesday of this coming week, we do something
called Medicaid Mondays and it has become a very well followed,
let's say, educational event. It's a thirty minute webinar every
second Monday of the month. Frank Heming, our Medicaid partner,
chairs that group and I do it with him, and
Aaron Connor does it with him, and we bring in guests.

(24:50):
All of the issues that you have to deal with
in Medicaid are covered one at a time for thirty
minutes on a very intense basis. So we're looking this
Monday coming up February tenth, at twelve noon at.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Solo Seniors, what happens.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
You know, we deal a lot with married couples and
you have one spouse as a caregiver and one spouse not.
But there are people out there that don't have anybody
close by that need to bring people in to help,
just serve as power of attorney, service, healthcare agent, service trustee.
How do they bring a plan together when they don't
have the family that is in many other people's plans.

(25:30):
So there's a whole group social networks now of solo seniors.
They all different names for the groups. One name that
I don't terribly like Elder Orphans. They called himself that
I think somewhat satirically, But it's important to think about
how to plan when you're alone, when you're on your own,

(25:52):
how do you make sure you have the structure in
place legally financially to plans. So twelve noon, Frank Heming
myself will be tearing these issues apart and putting them
back together again for you in thirty minutes. You can
sign up at any time on pyrolaw dot com go
to the events tab, or you can call the office
five one eight four five nine twenty one hundred and

(26:13):
on Tuesday, February eleventh, we have our quarterly Trust Administration Workshop.
So this is the inner workings of a trust, opening
up the hood, seeing how it all works. And that
is twelve to one thirty on Tuesday, February eleventh.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
I hope you can join us.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
It's at trustcoll Bank Center that's at sixth Metro Park Road,
right off Wolf Road, and you can sign up again
pyrolaw dot com Events four nine twenty one hundred if
you want to call Trust Administration Workshop if you have
a trust and you're struggling with tax returns and accountings
and all the things that need to be done, or
you're thinking about a trust and you want to know

(26:49):
how much work it's actually going to be. This is
the program for you. Ninety minutes, very intense. It's myself
in Gretchen Gunther, who's a CPA with Tell Beecker and
Schirmante former professor and practicing accountants, so she's very good
at teaching all the tax aspects of trust. So join
us Tuesday twelve to one thirty for the Trust Administration Workshop.

(27:10):
Monday at noon for the Medicaid Monday Workshop. Thanks and
back to our conversation here Bob Vandy of Advisors Insurance
Brokers and David Kopeck. Dave, you do this show, your
show two hours and then another hour and here you
are again with us. Thank you for joining us. I
do appreciate you sticking around, and your perspectives are really

(27:33):
good because you've been doing this a while and you're
on the financial planning side. When people all come to
you and say, oh, I'm you know, I want to
make sure I get the best market returns.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Great, that's all good.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
I want to have the best financial products. I want
to pay the least amount of tax possible. Great, we
can work on an investment plan that has tax deferral.
And do they ever come to you and say, oh,
I'm really worried about if I go to a nursing home.
Does that come up with in your world?

Speaker 3 (28:00):
Very rare, A handful a handful of And it's like
I said at the beginning of the show, it's typically
people that have had an event in their life or
there's smoke in the basement. They're looking for a policy
because they know that there's trouble coming down the road.

Speaker 5 (28:15):
Yeh, Bob knows this, and you know this also.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
You know there's been an event that has happened, a diagnosis,
and they know that they're going to need some care.
But I think Bob understands this, and you understand that,
you know, the long term care policy product has changed
so dramatically in just the last ten years. Bob worked
on a case I'll just go through this real quick

(28:41):
where we had a guy that had four hundred thousand
dollars in an annuity that was specifically set up.

Speaker 5 (28:46):
For long term care.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
I went to Bob and Melissa at Advisor Insurance Group.
We've developed a plan with this product called care Matters,
and he ended up walking out the door by just
repositioning the assets to a product that gave one point
two million dollars from day one, dollar one all the
way up to one point six million, as he ages,
and it's for two people, for two people, and the

(29:09):
only thing that he had to do is some basic
underwriting and transfer of assets. And he's got long term
coverage that started at four hundred and within a few
months it ended up being one point two million dollars
and it covers not only himself but his wife. And
guess what the greatest part of this, as Bobby knows,
it's cash ye monthly cash benefit.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
And we have the leading expert here on the line
with us, David, and that's mister Bob Vandy. So, Bob,
this marketplace, as we said, I gave it a very
generous term has evolved long term care insurance itself, I
would probably put in the disintegrated column.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
There used to be twenty companies in New York.

Speaker 4 (29:51):
In New York, I think we topped out at about
twelve or thirteen, okay, but still a lot, a lot
fuller than it is today. We've basically got one carrier
down in the brokerage space. And then there are a
couple of career companies, career life insurance companies that have
a product that's not available in the brokerage space.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
You have to go to that company to get it right.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
And I can mention those Northwestern Mutual New York Life Correct,
I think are the two that that are left correct.
Mass Mutual has dropped there. They've dropped in New York.

Speaker 4 (30:20):
Ye in the brokerage company that the good news is
the brokerage company that's still active in New York and
throughout the country as Mutual of Omaha. So a mutual
company which means it's owned by the policyholders. They do
a great TV show, Wild Kingdom used to that. Still
it's still on a resurgence.

Speaker 5 (30:37):
Yeah, I believe you guys, agent, Are you guys, agent?

Speaker 2 (30:41):
What do you mean you guys as Jim wrestles the wild, I'll.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
Wait here camera. But it's kidding aside. They're they're a good, conservative,
Midwest mutual company. So if we're gonna have one company,
that's a great company to have. But as Dave refers
to in the evolution that you refer to, Lou is
that more and more we're seeing products that tied together,
typically life insurance and long term care together, and that

(31:10):
in fact, I know what Dave is talking about. Unfortunately,
that specific product he's alluding to is not yet available
in the state of New York. They're trying to get
it approved, which is a challenge in itself.

Speaker 5 (31:20):
That's a disclaimer. These people were in floridabyt Y.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, I'd talk a little bit about that for our listeners.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
New York is a hard place to do business for
a lot of things, but specially insurance products.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
It is.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
The DFS, the Department of Financial Services in New York,
is very, very, very very did I mention very consumer protective,
which is a good thing, but from a doing business standpoint,
it's very challenging for insurers. We often refer to it
as kind of a forty nine to one environment. There
are a lot of products like the one that Dave
is referring to, where I can get it in forty

(31:52):
nine other states, but for some reason, the state of
New York has an issue with it. And the sword
that they fall on anytime we have conversation with them
is that they're protecting consumers, which we're all for. But
you can't tell me that a product is great for
forty nine of the fifty states. And there's just something
about New York that makes it so unique that it
just seems to get bogged down in the process.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
And people play this a little loose.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
I think some agents, Oh, if you meet me in
my Massachusetts office, I can sell you the Massachusetts product.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
How do those rules work and how close to the
line are you comfortable?

Speaker 4 (32:29):
Well, we're we don't get comfortable with that. I mean,
it's you got to make sure that you're doing things properly.
And there are some agents or advisors. Every once in
a while somebody will say, well, can't we meet at
the diner across the border in Massachusetts or Vermont or
New Jersey or wherever it might be. And most of
the carriers have really tightened the screws on that type

(32:50):
of behavior. There's if there is a legitimate business purpose.
For example, if you have a second residence, like if
I'm a New York resident, but I have a home
in Florida.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
Right there, Most.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
Companies, depending on the product, will allow you to as
long as everything takes place in Florida, the application is
taken in Florida, the policy is delivered in Florida, you
should be able to get the Florida product, with some exceptions.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
Yeah, So those protections in New York are very valuable.
The partnership was one of the most protected policies in
the market pace. It had consumer protections everywhere in that
partnership contract. So, folks, if you have a partnership policy.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Do not let it lapse. It's gold. Do not let
it lapse. It is like gold.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
Appreciating it at what percentage, David, eighty some percent over
the last years.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
It's the thing though, with the partnership, and I think,
you know, I have my own personal opinion on this,
and it might be different from you and Bob. I
think they failed as New York State because I never
thought that it would dissipate and go away and there
wouldn't be any more partnership programs available. I think it
was something that New York State and the insurance company
should have found some kind of a remedy in order

(33:57):
to continue, because it had so much benefit for the
people that needed those types of policies.

Speaker 4 (34:03):
Yeah, you're not going to get any argument with me
on that one. Well me either were minded on that.
Then again, this a lot of this has to do
with with the Department of Financial Services and the interaction
between it and the Department of Health where the medicaid
folks are located, and the seeming lack of synergy, if
that's the right way to put it.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
But I agree with you.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
And what happened, I think partly for New York is
all the other things in long term care, the interest
rates and the inability to invest in other types of
assets that they couldn't earn enough money on their reserves.
But in New York they had so many protections on
these policies, minimum dollar values, minimum inflation protections. Five percent
was the initial requirement in the partnership, and you can't

(34:45):
buy five percent in most places anymore because it just
doesn't reflect market realities. And those contracts became so expensive
and they couldn't be changed. Yeah, so the carriers had
You know, I don't blame the carriers for this, because.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
There was no meta of the mines.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
There was no Okay, let's modify it, let's let's bend
it to shape the current marketplace.

Speaker 4 (35:06):
Well that you're right, and the carriers wanted to have
that flexibility, There's no question. In fact, I served on
a what was called the Medicaid Redesign Team or the
Partnership Redesign Team. We had a couple of meetings down
in all but Ney to talk about this very issue
of are we just too restrictive. It took a long
time to get an additional inflation option down to three

(35:28):
and a half percent, which became very, very popular.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
For good reason. Loom breaks the cost down. The inflation
writer was a third of the big meal. It was
a big bill, you know, Bobby.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
But even if they just did the dollar for dollar yeah,
you know, which you could probably get into more detail
than I can. I mean, that made all the sense
in the world too. Buy a pool of money. At least,
you know, you got some protection. It might not be
the full, but at least you got a band aid
for something that could possibly come down the.

Speaker 4 (35:54):
Road without question, and I suppose we could bat it
back and forth.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
What we don't have.

Speaker 4 (35:58):
I think for our listeners, the key is, you know,
that's all well and good, but I don't have a
partnership policy, So so what do I do? Does that
mean I don't do anything because the partnership is virtually
non existent at this point, and I think the main
takeaway is no, you still have options.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
So I'm going to the problem.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
The problem is, and I'll just say this real quickly,
the problem is is that most financial advisors, and this
is in general terms, do not really care about long
term care coverage. Okay, they they manage money, Okay. I
used to get a lot of chuckles from guys that
I worked with a Dean Winter that.

Speaker 5 (36:29):
I was now out.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
You know what, do you got a leisure suit and
a white belt and a white pair of shoes and
you're outselling insurance?

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Now?

Speaker 5 (36:36):
Yeah, right, exactly.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
But Dan Bouchard and Kevin Johnson and Bob Vandy and
that whole team that was at New York long Term
Care Brokers at the time educated me how important it
was to have this type of protection. Then I lived
it for six and a half years. Then I lived
it for six and a half years and out Now
I'm a disciple.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
You got religion, and anybody that's a caregiver and goes
through this and is facing all of these Oh my god,
what do I do? Mom's in the hospital. We have
to discharge it. Now, we got to talk to the
nursing home. Now, we got to fill out the financial affidavit.
You're just in a in a current that's taking you
over the waterfalls, and you just have nothing to latch
onto these policies. Okay, I can get a care coordinator.

(37:17):
I can have a benefit, and there's no waiting period
for that. There's no elimination period. The care coordination is
available immediately. So you've got a benefit for you know,
maybe two three thousand dollars in your policy.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
I'll go out and hire one of these folks to
help you put the care plan together. You don't even
have to pay it out of pocket. It's in your policy.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
And so that's a benefit that my clients are going
to be using, is the care coordination benefit, because it's free.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
It's money in your contract that.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
You can just tap and get professional guidance through this
whole process. One thing that comes up, Bob, and I'm
probably the last partnership issue. You got unlimited asset protection
in this partnership, but if you moved across the border,
you don't. And people think, well, I don't have if
I move, I don't don't have any coverage.

Speaker 4 (38:01):
But how does that work? They do have some they
do and actually Deve alluded to it. There are before
things kind of went away. As it relates to the partnership,
you had two types of asset protection in the policies
that were being offered. Originally it was all total asset protection,
meaning I use up the benefits in my policy, I

(38:21):
could then apply for what's known as Medicaid extended coverage
and all of my assets would be protected. I wouldn't
have to spend down any of my assets. And then
as part of the evolution we talked about, there was
the possibility of buying a what's known as a dollar
for dollar asset protection policy, which is Deve alluded to.
It didn't give me full asset protection, but I had

(38:43):
an amount of asset protection equivalent to whatever my policy paid.
So if my policy paid out three hundred thousand dollars
of benefits over the lifetime, and then the policy ended
because it ran out of benefit. I could then apply
for Medicaid extended coverage and I would only need to
spend down my assets in exis of that three hundred
thousand dollars. So both were good. Total was much better, obviously,

(39:05):
but both were good.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, in my case, there's a five hundred thousand dollars
pool of money yep, three years of nursing home coverage,
six years of home healthcare coverage, but the total pool
is five hundred thousand dollars. So in this case, you know,
children are not local, so if something happens and mom
needs to move to another state, then you have to
have that five hundred thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
That is your asset protection benefit.

Speaker 4 (39:26):
Correct, And that's the portability is what we're talking about here,
which didn't exist before.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
I don't remember the year.

Speaker 4 (39:32):
I'm gonna I would mess up the year, but the
portability basically said that, Okay, you take your total asset
protection policy in New York and you move to let's
say Florida. Florida allows dollar for dollar asset protection. So
what the portability states like Florida said was Okay, New Yorker,
come to Florida. You can use your policy benefits anywhere
in the country and sometimes even internationally. You can use

(39:54):
your policy benefits anywhere in the country, and if you
exhaust the benefits, you can apply for Medicaid extended coverage.
But even though you can't get the total asset protection
like your policy said, because you're no longer a New
York resident, you can at least get the dollar for
dollar asset protection that Florida provides as part of the
port of building.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
So in the long term care world, you had the
partnership with asset protection, but you didn't need to buy
that partnership policy. And I did seminars with New York
long term care brokers for years and years, and we
did them together. Here's the legal side of the plan,
here's the financial side of the plan, insurance size. And
when you put the two together, you get partnership because

(40:34):
we do a trust called a Medicaid Asset Protection Trust
that takes the assets off the table, just like a
partnership policy would. And the reason I like that was
because all partnership policies are reimbursement. We like the indemnity contracts,
so we would counsel our clients to buy an indemnity
policy where you get cash and you can apply that cash.

(40:56):
You don't have to go through all the hoops every
month justifying the hours of care and the certification of
the provider. You get cash, you can buy whatever is
available to you in your local market, in your home,
and at the same time you can do the asset
protection planning and get the Medicaid backup for that. So
you get the insurance contract upfront with cash, and you

(41:16):
get Medicaid on the back end with the Medicaid asset
protection trust. To me, that was better than partnership.

Speaker 4 (41:22):
Yeah, it was a round two or version two if
you will. Two point oh. I guess you could call
it partnership two point oh. And you're right. And it's interesting, Dave,
like you're mentioning with the financial advisors, I would say
that a lot of times they're not comfortable with it.
I mean, if they're focusing on asset management or investment management,

(41:43):
or maybe they're even holding themselves out as being a
financial planner so to speak. It always surprises me that
the insurance seems to take that back seat, because I
don't know how you can project that you're a financial planner,
and you're developing financial plans for people and not have
the protection component to it.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
That's about what we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
I'm going to tell you something, and I've had you
on my show before. It turns my stomach when I
hear financial advisors talk about the only reason that Bob
Vandy is recommending an insurance product is because of the
big fact commission that you're making.

Speaker 5 (42:17):
It turns. It turns my stomach.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
I get it. I get it.

Speaker 4 (42:20):
That's another show and then we could we could rip
that one up too. I agree with you and my
line because I have a lot of people call me
up or come up to me at the seminar and say, well,
I don't believe in in life insurance.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
I said, it's not a religion. It's a financial product.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
And if you can replace that death benefit by saving
during your lifetime, and if you die next year, how
are you going to save enough to put that money
back in where your family needs it. It's a financial
product that has so many uses, and now it's being
used more for income tax planning.

Speaker 5 (42:51):
You have accumulation policies. It's a tool loo in the toolbox.
It is, and that's all it is.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
And if you want to use that tool, grade if
you don't, let's move on to the you know, the
other tool. It's simply you know, there was a gentleman
that Bob and I both knew, and he says, I
don't care what you call it. You can call it
bag of apples, or you can call an insurance. Whatever
it is, it's going to solve the problem. Do you
want me to call it bag apples? And does that
make you feel more comfortable?

Speaker 2 (43:14):
That's a perfect point. We're gonna take another short break,
this last one.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
We're gonna come back round out the discussion and talk
about some of these products that are out there, how
to integrate them into your financial plan, how to put
that long term care right on and what that really costs.
Does it add a lot to the premium? And we'll
be back right after this short break. You know, the
Chiefs and the Eagles probably the everybody thought Detroit was
going to be the team this year, but Washington took

(43:40):
them down.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
The Eagles took Washington down hard. And the Eagles look good.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Man that offensive line with Sequon behind it, my former giant,
but they look good. Kansas City just seems to have
the magic and the way to win. What's your prediction, Bob?

Speaker 4 (43:55):
My prediction is, let's go Zach. I know Zach's prediction. Boy,
I feel like it might be Philadelphia's year. I think that.
I think things are lining up for them.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
You're right.

Speaker 4 (44:12):
I mean I frankly, I didn't think Kansas City would
get this far.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
I really didn't.

Speaker 4 (44:16):
And there are some Bills fans out there that would
probably say they shouldn't have gotten this far. But I
like Philly tight game. Well, I think what was the
spread point in a half last time I saw it?
I like Philly, David, what's your team?

Speaker 5 (44:31):
I'm with Bobby. I think Philadelphia.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
I think say Kawon Barkley is the the missing piece
that they haven't had.

Speaker 5 (44:37):
A guy. He's got all sorts of records rushing.

Speaker 3 (44:40):
If he has just a fraction of the game that
he's possible happening, he's I think he's going to be
the difference.

Speaker 5 (44:47):
In the game. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Both both teams play at a very high level. The
thing that has impressed me over the last six years,
and they're in their fifth Super Bowl in six years.
They've won the last two, so they would be three
peating Andy Reid is a freaking genius. I mean, he
puts a team on the field and he has plays
coming out of the playbook that you haven't seen in
fifty years.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
And he's able to execute.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Those plays in key situations and just get that first
down or get that touchdown when they need it. You
have my homes in the pocket. But the guy that
I think is going to make a difference, We'll see
if he can game plan this for for Philly is
the defensive coordinator. And I've been following him since he
was the Giants defensive coordinator, Steve Spagnolo. So I'm going
Chiefs in a last minute field goal.

Speaker 4 (45:33):
And we and we met that guy if you remember correctly, Yes,
Zach Harrison.

Speaker 5 (45:37):
Zach didn't his mic didn't his microphone just go out?

Speaker 2 (45:41):
I think I think.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
If I were you, Lou, I wouldn't buy walk by
his door to the studio.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
I went to school in down near Philadelphia, and all
my friends and all my friends from Lee High are
down there, and I'm on the text chain with him,
and it's a frenzy and I just pop in every
now and then and something through bobb a grenade in there.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
So it's fun.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
But let's get back in talk about the current marketplace.
And Dave, you have a financial advisor. I know you
work with Bob. What are the products that you're looking
at for your clients that are really attractive right now?

Speaker 3 (46:15):
I think the only ones that Bobby and I probably
consistently is the Link Benefits. And I can't tell you
the last time I did a traditional policy because the
thing that you hear consistently, Lou, you know this, if
I don't use it, I lose it. With the Link Benefits,
there's a combination of life insurance and long term care.
You can add the velocity that you want. You work

(46:36):
with your team to draft the legal documents and the
trust and you're in pretty good shape. Statistically, you're in
pretty good shape. So I'm in the camp that the
link benefit is the secret sauce the long term care planning.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
I'm with you one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
And you can sell that product at much, much, much
younger ages because people in their thirties need life insurance.
They have income replacement is a key use of life insurance.
And I worked with a company and Bob, you were
kind of involved in some of that. The Hertford I
worked very closely with their home office when they were
developing and launching their product, which was the Link Benefit product,

(47:13):
and the actuaries were startling in terms of the cost
of that rider, which was deminimus next to the life
insurance cost. And we figured out a way to hold
that policy and trust, which.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
We still have. We call it the Parental Protection Trust.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
And so just talk a little bit about that policy
and those policies, what's on the market and what you're seeing.

Speaker 4 (47:32):
Well, it's interesting you mentioned Hartford. They were the ones
that were first out of the gate. They were with indemnity. Yeah,
with indemnity. That product is actually still around. Hartford was
actually purchased by Prudential. Yeah, and Prudential brought that ride over.
They called the bar rider the Benefit Access rider, and
it's basically that original Hartford policy and rider where I

(47:53):
can get a life insurance policy at a very competitive.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Cost that will last the death benefit will last for
the rest of my life types of life insurance. But
this is like a guaranteed universal life correct.

Speaker 4 (48:03):
Correct, it's I'm not buying it to build up cash
value insurance, yeah, permanent term insurance. I'm not looking for
cash value, which there are legitimate reasons for at times.
But this is all about the death benefit and the
long term care benefit, or in this case, what they
call chronic illness benefit comes in the form of me
being able to accelerate that death benefit early. I have
a half a million dollar policy. That essentially means I

(48:25):
have a half a million dollar pool of money that
I can tap into if I have a chronic illness
and I want.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
To two percent a month still kind of the standard.

Speaker 4 (48:33):
One or two or four percent a month, depending on
the product on the contract.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're the one Hartford was two percent
at the time, right, And so that's ten grand a
month cash yep, tax free yep.

Speaker 4 (48:44):
And there are different versions. You can dial it different ways.
As Dave alluded to, and he's referring to something a
little different with the linked benefit products. They don't build
as much death benefit, but they have a separate pool
of money for the long term care benefit.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
So both of those are pretty exciting. And Dave, we
have a minute left, I'm going to give you the
last word.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
Well, I just think that, you know, I think that
this is great when three separate entities can come together
and talk about a topic that's probably on everybody's mind.
You know, I applaud that you do this because I
think it adds a lot of good information to your listeners.
And you know how much respect I have for Bob
Bandy and you, and I just think that hopefully people

(49:25):
this will motivate them to take action.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Yeah. So now we have forty seconds left, so it.

Speaker 4 (49:34):
Let me do this. Let me take ten of those seconds.
If you had, if any of our listeners had one takeaway,
get together with your financial advisor, get together with Dave,
do a review. Yeah, look at where you are now,
think about where you want to be. I agree with
Dave taking Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
And we offer a comprehensive consultation, and we look at
the reason I have this I'm holding this long term
care partnership policy is I ask for everything, and I
review everything, and I reviewed the contract with them at
the meeting to get them started. So, whether you started
on the financial planning side or you started on the
legal side, sooner or later, they have to come together

(50:08):
and your financial advisor, your attorney, your accountant, all should
be working together for your best interest. And we try
to bring that to you here every Saturday morning on
Life Happens Radio, Thanks for listening today. Hope you can
join us again next week. We will be back with
Super Bowl results. Fly Eagle Sly, There you go.