Rod Arquette Show w/ Greg Hughes: The Fall of the Chevron Deference; Congressional Candidate Stewart Peay

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
How are you. Everybody welcome toWingan Wednesday. I'm Rod Arquette along with
I'm Goose Citizens, great citizen.Do you realize that in less than two
weeks now, we have a primaryin the state of Utah and in fifteen
days, Joe Biden and Donald Trumpwill go at it in the first presidential
debate. It's happening at Yes,it's it's it's come. It's coming through

(00:23):
quickly. I mean, we're we'reyou know, we're in June of the
big, the big feared twenty twentyfour election year. I think in Utah,
the primaries are sneaking up on us. Ballots arrived two weeks ago,
I guess ten days ago, andso people are voting. You know,
there's a there's a spike and peoplelike turn those ballots around very quickly.
They and then then it tapers offand it's it's quiet, and then there's

(00:43):
another wave right before there before theelection. Yeah, so people there's some
that want to get it done realquick, and then there's other and then
I pretty high percentage, but andthen everybody kind of waits and sees listens
to everyone before they make a finaldecision. Yeah. Yeah, Well it's
yeah. I've got my ballots home. You have, you got yours?
I got mine at home. TheHughes family has five registered voters. We
are voter harvesting in the Hughes home. Right now. We are going to

(01:06):
talk about they are all legal.We are all legal. We all have
chane of custody. And if Iwas required by a lot to have every
one of these kids take thrown in, we would do it. There you
go, there you go. Allright, We've got a heck of a
show lined up for you today here. In a few minutes, we'll talk
about the passing of Jerry West andI have a prediction on what's going to
happen. As a result of thatprediction, we're going to analyze the debates.

(01:26):
I was able to moderate one ofthe debates. Yes, by the
way, thank you. It wasreally good like you. It was usually
have a face for radio, butyou actually had a face for TV.
It was, as much as itpains me to give you this compliment,
you did a phenomenal Well, thankyou. We'll talk about the debates.
Stuart pay who is a candidate inthe third congressional district. I don't know
much about Stuart do you know muchabout Stuart pay I know he was the

(01:49):
Utah County or Republican chair and UHRepublican chair from Utah County, and he's
been involved in politics and grassroots politicsfor a long time. And I think
he's related to the Romney somewhere online. I think it's a by marriage or
something, but there's a there's aconnection there somewhere. But yeah, he's
That's why you interview him. Sowe can do more on this a little
bit later on. Oh, thisis going to be fun. Are you
going to share your stories with usabout being disciplined in school? See,

(02:13):
this is what happens, folks whenyou tell me these stories, tell me
stories, and he outs me.Well, I'm going to help you on
this one. But we're all talkingabout would traditional discipline like a whack on
the fanny change what's going on inour schools today. I'm just hypothetically,
if you were in seventh grade andwe're paddled three times from this behavior,
just just to just grab a scenarioutof thin air, if that happened,
would that would be Would that bea good thing or a bad thing?

(02:35):
Well, fifty four year old citizenUS says it's a good thing. Okay,
So now all right, Well we'llget into that a little bit later
on as well. We'll talk speakingof schools, how are they going to
implement the new Sensitive Materials law thatwas passed when it comes to school libraries.
State Representative Ken Ivory will join uslater on as well. So as
always, great show, and ofcourse we want you to be a part
of it. Eight eight eight fiveseven O eight zero one zero eight eight

(02:58):
eight five seven oage girl one zeroor on your cell phone dial pound two
fifteen and say hey Rod. Wealso we also and I know you're excited
about this, Greg have tickets totuck her Carlson. Oh, I can't
wait. Tucker Carlson will be hereon September seventh. Glenn Beck is going
to be joining them at Delta Center. We have some tickets we're going to
be giving away. Plus we're ifwe can make this all happen. We

(03:20):
can't give them details yet, butwe may have something very special planned for
that night for yes. Yeah,yeah, we can't tell you what it's
going to be, but you're puttingdown what you're saying you can't yet.
Yeah, we so we'll do that, and we've got Lagoon tickets to give
away. You're really Father's Day isSunday? This Sunday? Yes, wow,
does your obviously your family doesn't goall out for Father's Day? Well,

(03:44):
who knows. I don't know.I'm the beneficiary of all this good
will, So we'll see what happens. My wife's always been a sweetheart.
On Father's Day. She goes waytoo far. It's embarrassing. It makes
you feel awkward. I would notfeel awkward at any of it. There
is no such thing as an embarrassmentof riches with me. Okay, just
just foist it all on me,just bring just keep giving me gifts.

(04:05):
Yeah, all right, all right, now I want to bring this story
up today. Jerry West, greatNBA player, I mean, champion,
took him years to beat to beatthe Celtics, and kept on losing to
the Celtics. And this guy,yeah, yeah, this guy by then
of Wilt Chamberlain showed up and startedplaying for the Lakers, and guess what

(04:28):
happened. They started beating the Celtics. And he was a great coach,
a great administrator, passing away today. He was eighty six years old.
Yeah, that's not. You knowwhat in today's age, I saw that
agent. I thought, that's notas that's not that old. Well,
I'm getting closer to a younger Yeah, but I've got a prediction to make

(04:48):
now. Jerry West, known asa great player, great coach, right,
great coach, great administrator, greatgeneral manager, has done a lot
of great things for basketball over theyears. It it's his image that is
on the NBA logo. Yes,okay, I'm gonna make a prediction.
I think now that he has passedaway, it'll be a year or two,

(05:09):
but I bet the NBA changes thatimage. And here's why they will
put the image of a black playeron their logo. Yeah, you know,
am I wrong in that? Now? I hate the analysis, but
I think it's dead on and Iand I because the NBA has become so
woke and where you've seen some maybeequilibrium happening in the NFL, where you
have some teams that are saying we'renot going to get all into this.

(05:30):
You got the NHL with their playerssaying a lot of this is outside the
sport. We want to play thisgame. NBA doesn't seem to get any
of these memos. They don't seemto. They seem to be going as
well as they can. They gota great contract with China for TV contracts
there, so they got they gota great customer in China. I think
that what you're saying is probably true. In fact, it's such an iconic

(05:50):
logo that in the in the alertsthis morning I got announcing that that Jerry
West had passed away, it mentionedin so many of them that it's his
image. This image is in theNBA logo when he was a star player.
Uh huh. And you know that'snot a bad thing, and I
would have never thought that that wouldbe something that you would need to change.
But when you brought it up,I'm going, yeah, how did

(06:11):
it last this long? If I'mbeing honest, Well, well, you
know, the NBA is dominated byblack athletes, very talented athletes out there,
and my guess is somewhere down theline, there's going to be an
activist out there, Greg that says, you know what issuld represent the players,
the the the the race of theplayers involved in the NBA today.
I just I don't know, Isee it coming and I don't know who

(06:33):
they put on there. Doctor J. Michael put on there use the Michael
come fly with you know, theygive him the logo there. But the
identity politics, you just I justkeep thinking that everybody's trying to find some
normalcy and you're seeing some corporations thatare just trying to get out of this
space as well. But I don'tthink the NBA is like like minded that

(06:55):
way. I think they'll they'll keeppushing it and you'll see that that logo
change necessarily, because again, theUnited States is a nation of immigrants.
Identity politics is probably the most efficientway to turn us against one another when
you're a nation of immigrants, andthat's what the left is seeking to do.
They're not trying to build anything,they're trying to break it down.
Well, and you make a goodpoint. Of all the leagues out there,
probably the NBA is the most woke. Is that fair to say?

(07:18):
Oh? I think so that's myMaybe maybe the NFL behind them, Yeah,
the NFL. You brought us theNFL. You know about Pride Month,
there have been a number of teamswho said, Nope, we're going
to play that game. Well yeah, and they had sideline gear and there's
all these they went. There's alot of social causes, And I would
argue woke causes that you found inon the sidelines of NFL games, in

(07:39):
the in the coaches gear, thesidelines they have to wear. Yeah.
And you're hearing now from a lotof these teams their ownership and in Pittsburgh
that I followed, even the coachTomlin, who's known to be kind of
a social justice warrior, at leaston a free time, he's he's saying
what you heard Jerry Jones from theCowboys say a couple of years ago.
We're are our businesses football. We'regoing to play football. And in the

(08:01):
case of the Dallas Cowboys, theyhave players with foundations. They invested invest
in their players and their foundations,they invest in their community. They they
do that. But when it's timeto play football, it's about football.
And that's the beginning, middle andend of it. And now you're seeing
a lot of teams, Steve Pittsburghone of them, Cincinnati, Cleveland,
Dallas, Kansas City Chiefs. You'reseeing a lot of teams that are making

(08:24):
the same having the same statement.We're done with the social causes and the
messages. This is football. We'regoing to We're here to play yeah.
Yeah, we play football social causesoutside, we support those. I think
Jerry Jones would spot on. Idon't agree with much of Jerry Jones does
anymore because I'm a Cowboys fan.But he said, we invest in their
foundations. That's the way we supportthese ef That's the way to do it.

(08:45):
It is if it's real, that'show you do it. If you
want to do something more than checka box or just virtue signal, you
do what they did do. Youinvest in your players foundations and you try
to make a difference with them inthose efforts. And so if there was
a close race between Roger Goodell andthe NFL and you know Stern in the
NBA, I think the NFL maybeby because the owners themselves are slowing down

(09:05):
in that on that path, butthe NBA seems like four steam ahead.
All right, All right now,the Utah Debate Commission wrapping up their series
of debates prior to the primary comingup in less than two weeks now,
coming up, Greg and I willtalk about that and break it down for
you. That's coming up. Itis wing Man Wednesday right here on Utah's
Talk Radio one oh five nine kNRS. What do you make of the

(09:26):
debate so far, you know,kind of interesting things that are happening with
the debate. I think there's alot to be drawn, a lot to
a lot of conclusions you can thatcan be drawn from the debates with the
big but the big question in mymind is how many people actually get to
watch them or yeah, listen tothat debate between the two candidates or in
well seconds or two. But thenwhere you have to night or tonight,

(09:46):
you have what five in the thirdstories five and it's you know, this
is where I mentioned this to theDebate Commission. I said, you probably
need to make this one an hourand a half one hour. I mean
when I hosted the debate on Monday, the between Kobe Jenkins and Celeste molloy,
we got in greg thirteen or fourteenquestions, which is pretty tonight with
five candidates, I think they'll belucky to get in six. Yeah,

(10:09):
maybe seven, I agree, Andthat's not a good scenario for me.
Having been a candidate and participated indebates. You want those hard questions,
I do. You want hard questionsthat really distinguish you between yourself and other
candidates. There's a lot, youknow, the media buys are all fluff,
right. They didn't tell you exactlyis it's all those things. And
what you did a good job ofdoing is you've been listening to these candidates,

(10:31):
you've been interviewing them on your program, so you were able to ask
the next question. You already knewwhat the answer to the fluff question.
You know that going in. Youdrilled in and you went a little bit
deeper into those next questions that wherethe debates ought to go. But if
you have five tonight, good luckgetting to that level. That'll be tough
to do. A couple of thingsall over. What did you think of
trends stags and his closing argument inthe debate because he brought up, you

(10:54):
know, a question about John Curtisand his investing. We had Trent on
yesterday and he defended doing it inthe last minute, and he says,
because it never came up during thedebate, I had my my closing statement,
and I was going to use thatclosing statement to bring up an issue
that I think people are concerned about. They're concerned about we send people back
to Congress, back to the Senate, back to the House, and they

(11:16):
become millionaires. People are going,what gives That's not the intent of what
we're doing here. Now that notthat John Curtis has done that. Those
are the allegations against him, butthere's been some reporting out there saying maybe
he is doing a little bit ofthat. So to that specific question,
because it's been national news that thesemembers of Congress, and you would and
you just look at the national publications, the are at least drilling down on

(11:39):
the amazing returns that members of Congressare able to get when they invest in
stocks. It's double digit returns.You see Congressman Curtis, he's in the
top five all the time. Soit's a it's a nationally covered story.
We haven't really seen it as apoint of discussion or debate up in the
US Senate race up till now.Should be, So it should be,
and if it's not asked, it'sI think it's appropriate to bring up how

(12:01):
do day traders? How do peoplethat wake up every single day and this
is their career never see the returnsthat these members of Congress are saying,
like, you should just quit thiswhole house gig in Congress or Senate and
just be a day trader because you'regetting thirty percent return or whatever it is.
I think that commentis to come upwith what I what was fun?
But you know you could say thatbring me up at the end where you

(12:22):
can't like have a retort or youcan answer. I know that Congressman Curtis
took offense to that and felt thatit was a low blow, that it
was done in a time where theshow was ending, and he did he
couldn't reply, so and it isa felony. If you're inside trading,
you're not allowed to do it.So I think he deserves an answer.
But if you've never heard it comeup and it is such a I think

(12:43):
I really question, Yeah, broughtit up. I want to know.
Now. You may have seen thepictures, the still photos of after it
was over, he went over andsaid something to Stags. I want to
know what he told Stags like you'reawesome, You're so good. Highly doubt,
but maybe someone knows what he said. But I haven't seen anything.
I would love to know what JohnKurr has sent to trends taggs after that

(13:07):
was over. Look, I've beenaround, I've known John Kers for a
long time. I've I've interact withhim quite a bit. I really know
well his chiefest staff, Corey Norman. But I would suspect it had something.
It would revolve something around a cheapshot, or you didn't give me
a shot, that was a lowblow, something like that. But again
that how that question hasn't Rod comeup more in this election cycle. I'm

(13:30):
a little confused because again it getsnational attention in terms of his top rated
returns amongst members of Congress. Now, the one question that I did ask
during our debate, I haven't seenall the others. I'm not sure if
this question came up, but youraised a point about it is a question
about do you support Donald Trump?Yes, now you know, and I
asked. I asked both Colby Jenkinsand Celeste Maloy event and they said yes,

(13:54):
I don't know, but I understand. Did it come up in the
governor's debate last night? It didnot, And I thought it was unusually
it was conspicuously absent from the poolof questions because it wasn't just yours.
This this question came up in theSenate race, and this come this question,
and I would predict it'll come upagain tonight in the third District debate,
and and the reason it comes upis it's the easiest question to ask

(14:16):
and seems to be the hardest questionfor candidates to answer, why because they
can't read the room if you lookat So I saw this as a candidate
before, and my support of Trumpis easy for me to share because I've
been for people and I saw youin a debate. I think it was
a woods Cross High school where allthe candidates were rest I think you were
the only one who said yeah,yeah, I said, it's not even

(14:39):
it's not even hard to ask.I mean, because you'll see in the
Super Tuesday, we had fourteen statesthat had primary Republican primary races, and
other than the one state that NikkiHaley won, the states she fared the
best in of the other of theof the other thirteen was the state of
Utah, where she I think Trumpwon by fourteen points, So all the
other states he was winning by twentyprints or more. This was the closest

(15:03):
margin of the states that Trump won, So it meant that Utahn's were really
to some with some measurement voting forNikki Haley. What I've seen, certainly
if you tune into some of theseof the local media here in Utah is
Utah nice still doesn't like Trump inany way. And a lot of these
candidates don't know if the delegates orthe people that the audience of which they're
in which they're speaking to, whatthe how they feel about Donald Trump.

(15:24):
And they don't want to make anyonemad. It's like, where are they
going? So I can lead themthere? That is why it's a hard
question, and that's why that questionshould be asked every single time, not
just to know if they support thepresident or not, which he is the
nominee, and that should be avery easy question to answer. But if
you can't answer a hard question,if you just reframe it or dodge it
or answer it in a way thatyou leave the listener and to not be

(15:46):
sure what you just said, that'sthe level of leadership or the degree of
leadership you're getting from that person aswell. But why ask it in the
governor's race, because I would youknow what you know? I understand asking
Congress and it because they have tosupport the president and what for legislation comes
through? Why ask getting the governorsright now? I think asked, well,
yeah, I asked that question.Why do you need to ask.
It's it's incredibly relevant for the fiftygovernors of this of this country to know

(16:11):
where they stand on this president,and especially if it's of your own party.
But governors have a direct relationship probablythe strongest conduit of communication with a
presidential administration, and you know inthe president themselves. So where Spencer Cox,
Governor Cox has been a long timecritic of President Trump, back in
my days when I was Speaker andhe's a lieutenant governor. He has had

(16:33):
and he's not been quiet about that. So I don't know that that's even
a hard question for him to answer. But with his history of how he
has never really been supportive of Trump, and I think I think he's tried
to in the twenty twenty race.I think he was expressed support, but
I think that it wasn't asked becauseI think and is I think it's a
hard question for him to answer.Potentially, Well, look, I think

(16:57):
that that I don't know how youdon't ask that ques question. I don't
either, because again, easiest questionto answer or easiest question to ask,
hardest question for some to answer,knowing that he's been a longtime critic,
it would be an opportunity for GovernorCox to really establish Hey, water under
the bridge, I'm all in,he's a nominee. I'm there or not.
You'd want to if if the answeris I support the president, you

(17:18):
probably want that question to be broughtup. The fact that it wasn't,
and it's weirdly not it's being askedof every other debate. I found that
to be an outlier. All right. Now, when we come back,
speaking of the debates, there isa debate involving the five candidates for the
third congressional district tonight. We'll talkwith one of them coming up next right
here on wing Man Wednesday. Rightnow, joining us on the program is

(17:41):
Stuart pay He's a candidate for thethird congressional district. Here and I'll tell
you what Today's a unique day tobe interviewing a good candidate like Stuart Pay
live, because sir, it isgame day today for you. You have
a very you have a debate comingup and probably one of the toughest ones
with how many candidates be on thatstage joining you for this debate. Welcome

(18:02):
to the program, sir, Now, thank you, it's great to talk
to you guys. And I appreciateyou having me, and you're right,
Greg, it's you know, debatesare tough enough just getting your ideas and
your thoughts out there. But youknow, we're gonna have to be elbowing
for room tonight. And although it'sbeen a really you know, the other
debates, the other forums we've hadhave been really nice. It'll be interesting

(18:23):
to see if if it changes alittle bit tonight with everybody fighting for our
time. Stewart, with so manypeople in a campaign, what are you
trying to do right now to differentiateyourself from the other four candidates in the
race? What are you saying,what are your proposal? What are you
doing different Well, so there's afew things I think, Number there are
a few things that just differentiate me. Number One, I'm the only person

(18:45):
in this race that grew up andwent to school on the Loasach front.
I'm the only veteran in this race, and I'm the only one and I'm
the only one that's worked this entireprofessional Well, I'm the only one that
grew up and lived his whole lifehere. The only times I've been gone,
we're on my mission. And whenI served in I rack the United
States Army. So I've really focusedon you know, my unique background,
my unique biography, and also wehave some great endorsements. You know,

(19:07):
we've got the endorsement of Centerment,renew Stewart and a lot of other great
leaders. So we've been doing twothings. You know, We've been focusing
on what I've done and on youknow, the support we've received from other
people in the party. So youalso, was it twenty nineteen Utah County
Republican Party voted for you to bethe chairman of the county party. Is
that right? That's right. Iwas a party chat from twenty nineteen to

(19:32):
twenty twenty one. So Rod's heardme say this and the listeners have.
It's the toughest job in politics interms of you know, you've got grassroots,
you've got donors, you've got candidates. It's a it is a proving
ground for sure. So let meask you this, Stewart. As you
get on the stage and you're gonnahave five candidates on the stage, it's
a tough place to make your Idon't know how many questions you're actually going
to get to with that many,but what on the policy issues? So

(19:53):
I hear that you're homegrown. Ihear that, and thank you for your
service as a veteran. What aboutthe policy issues that you I think really
strike a quarter or a difference betweenyou and four other candidates for the same
race. So you know, I'llbe honest, Greg, I think I
don't think there's a lot of lightbetween us on a lot of the issues.
I think on immigration, I thinkon healthcare, I think on spending.

(20:15):
You know, there's a lot ofsimilarities, but I think there are
some differences on things like Ukraine.Like I mentioned, I'm the only as
the only veteran, I actually serveda mission in Saint Petersburg, Russia.
I spent part of my time asan intelligence officer studying the Russians. I
actually worked in Russia the summer afterVladimir Putin came to power. So I've
got a very unique perspective on that. I think I've probably been the most

(20:36):
aggressive leaning into it about you know, how we should support the Ukrainians.
I believe we should give them weapons, we should give them ammunition, we
should give them the intelligence they need, because I think it's a lot better
for us to be aggressive on theinternational stage when it's not our boys when
it's not our girls out there fightinga war. This time, the Ukrainians
can do it. We can paythem to do it, or we can
give them the weapons to do it, and I think that works out very

(20:57):
well. Also, one thing I'veReadgie, I'm not sure has come out
as well from some of my opponents. This has been an intelligence bonanza for
us. We've learned a lot abouthow how the Russians all fight, how
they see things in a course onforce fight. And finally it's allowed us
to injured or to uh to updateor yeah, update our weapons manufacturing,

(21:18):
which is something that kind of felloff in the last decade or so.
On wing Man Wednesday, right now, we're talking with Stuart Page. Stewart
is a congressional candidate in Utah's thirdcongressional district. He'll be on the debate
stage tonight. Stuart, I'm gonnaI'm going to steal this question from Greg
because I think it's a pretty goodquestion. But Greg and I have been
talking about this with the slim majorityor slim minority that you have in Congress,

(21:40):
and that may happen again after theelection in November. You know,
I, Greg and I have talkedabout that every member of the House is
more powerful probably than they ever havebeen because of those slim majorities. They
have a lot of sway, doyou recognize that and how would you use
that to benefit the constituents and thethird Congressional District. No, I've thought

(22:02):
about that many times, and youknow, it's kind of humbling, and
yeah, well, it's just humblingto think that the inputs you have.
And I think, I think whatyou have to do to succeed in Congress
is you have to build coalitions.You have to work with people. I
had the opportunity a couple of monthsago to travel back to Washington, D
C. Me with some congressmen thatare veterans, and I talked with them

(22:22):
about how you build coalitions, howyou succeed in Congress. And I think
that's how you do it. Asyou start making I hate to use the
word friends, making allies that youcan build with that you can work with
on different issues. And I thinkthat's how you do it. And you
know, you start out with morepower than you've ever had before. But
to really push for change and tobuild majorities and to build coalitions, it
it takes working away from being oneand working to being one of a team

(22:47):
or to be a leader of ateam. Stuart, I don't know.
I think this question will you'll getthis question in debate. It's come up
with in every debate, with theexception maybe one. It seems for me
the quite easiest question to ask andfor some can's the hardest question and the
answer. But in regards to DonaldJ. Trump, have you supported that
President Trump and in the past electionsand do you plan to support him and

(23:07):
vote for him in this coming twentytwenty four election. Yeah, I voted
for him in sixteen and twenty andyou know, he's the only thing that
stands between us and four more yearsof the specter of inflation out of podal
spending and bad immigration policy. AndI'm not the type of I want to
be, the type of Republican orReagan type of Republican where like I say,

(23:30):
we build teams, we work together, we look at the positives.
You know, I'm not one ofthese angry Republicans. I'm one that believes,
like Reagan did, that our bestdays are in front of us and
that we have to work to havecom those things. Stuart has been great
having you on the show. Thankyou for joining us, and good luck
on the debate tonight. Hey,thank you, gentlemen, and have a
great day, all right. Thatis that is Stuart pay He is a

(23:52):
candidate in the third congressional district,you know, and he's on the debate
stage. I think it's on atsix o'clock tonight. We have a lot
of good candid in all these races. No one has brought that up,
but there are some really really goodcandidates. Yeah. And here's the thing
is that you know it when itis a debate like this and you prepare
for this, I mean you're you'relooking at the questions and and and there
has to be And you heard someof the answers that he shared with us

(24:15):
about what what's the difference because andhe was honest about look for a lot
of us in a Republican primary,there's not a lot of daylight. And
that's that's a very accurate, Ithink assessment of the of these candidates.
But what is the difference because thereneeds to be if you're going to vote
for one over the other. Thefact that he's getting ready for that and
he can even call into your programand have an interview on the game day
where you have that happening in aboutan hour and fifteen minutes. I think

(24:37):
I think it's it's exciting. It'san exciting time for these candidates, and
folks, I encourage you to watchwatch these debates. That my biggest fear,
rod is that you know you canbe the best candidate in the world,
but if no one knows, itjust doesn't actually matter. And so
the best way beyond the mail,the digital ads, the traditional ads,
to really know what you're getting outof these candiates is the listen to these

(25:00):
questions. They're not allowed to takeany notes up there, they're not allowed
to take any cheat sheets. Theygot to come up there with nothing.
They can have their phone, andthen they got to answer your questions honestly
and forthrightly or not and then useit and then use the voter get to
decide. And so I hope thatpeople take advantage of the opportunity to hear
these candidates answer the questions post.Yeah, well, we still have two

(25:22):
more candidates. We'll be talking tothem. John Dougal and Mike Kennedy will
be on the show on the comingdays and then next week following we'll have
the Senate candidates son before the primaryvote, which is now less than two
weeks away. I'm telling you,with all the candid that are running,
how you're fitting them all in withall the segments, it's a it's a
I think this is harder on youthan the candidates personally, I think so

(25:44):
well, thank you for your consideration. You were an event last night.
You were telling me that there area lot of people an event last night.
They kind of like wing Man,A lot of people. I had
people come up and they love Wroughtour catch show and they and wing Man
Wednesdays is a show they liked aswell. Is a feature? Really?
Yeah? It was good good goodfeet got fun to get it in different
uh you know settings, it's it'sit's and it seems to be consistent.
Rod kind of be you're kind ofa big deal. I mean your front's

(26:08):
that front and a conservative voice.Yes, it's people like it. All
right, We've got to two pairof tickets. Tucker Carlson salt Lake said,
September seventh, Saturday Night. Whata date night that is? That
is September two, because we gotcollege football, NFL sports turning all right,
before we go to the break.Uh. And when we're we're going

(26:30):
to talk about school discipline in thefive o'clock hour for a little bit,
we may have to have you sharea story or two. I've got one
I can share. Remember the Democraticlawmaker who, in trying to delay a
congressional vote pulled a fire alarm,Yes, a school, remember that,
Remember that story. His name isjab Jamal Bowman. Okay, well,

(26:52):
I haven't got for final numbers,but apparently he is headed for defeat good
in a primary there is are you? How are you having been a principal
of a school pull a fire alarmto try and delay a vote and then
try it and then lie about itin the recording the video cameras show that
he did it outright. That wouldbe just that would be just desserts for

(27:15):
him to lose prime. Well,he is facing a Democratic opponent by the
name of Georgia Latimer. And thelatest poll, recent poll by Emerson College
on the vote coming up on thetwenty fifth, Bowman trails Latimer by seventeen
points. Seventeen points. That isjustice, baby Man, good luck,
get your principal job back. Nowthat you now that everybody knows that you

(27:37):
pull the fire alarm. You don'tknow. That was the stupidest thing in
the world. It is. Andthen let's say you didn't do it when
you can see him pull it likeyou could see him doing it. Well,
remember his initial excuse, I didn'trealize it was a fire alarm.
I know. Remember that once again, this does not bode well for your
principal employment, you know, becominga principal. Again, that's if you
don't know the difference. It's it'sprobably one of those basic skills you have

(28:00):
to have in a public school.Well, apparently he could. You know,
latest poll they vote here in twoweeks, but he's down seventeen boys.
Oh, a lot of ground ball. We'll be better off a lot
of ground America. There are severalimportant decisions about to be handed down by
the Supreme Court, probably the endof this month. One of them is
known as the Chevron Difference, aninteresting case which really could change the way

(28:22):
things are done and really affect businesshere in the US. We'll talk about
that at the bottom of the hour. But there was a story Greg and
I came across today talking about coulda return to traditional discipline save our public
schools? The number one, well, not the number one complain, but
maybe the top complaints Greg, Ihear from teachers all the time is they
can't discipline students anymore. If astudent gets out of hand, there's not

(28:47):
a whole lot they can do.No, and it's it is a problem.
It's a growing problem. As whetherit's kids they're in schools where there's
their parents are working a lot andthey might whatever the circumstance maybe, or
the helicopter parents who are just soprotective they don't want their kids to be
disciplined or held to uh expectations.Uh. It's it's made the environment in

(29:10):
our in our classrooms one where theteachers don't have a whole lot of ways
to motivate or hold students accountable.Therefore there's a lot of chaos. Yeah,
yeah, and I wonder what I'mwhat can teachers do anymore when it
comes to discipline? Can you kickthem out of the class? Can you?
That's the problem. I've heard thisso in knowing that we talked about
this this morning, I spoke withsomeone who's who's who's relative. As an

(29:33):
administrator, a top administrator at apublic school, their only lever that they
feel they have when things are gettingso out of hand and interrupting the educational
experience, is to suspend or expel. Yeah. Well, I got to
tell you something. If I andme as a kid, hey, you
expel me, put a bow onit, I would not I know,
words would come sweeter to my ears. Then you can't come back here.

(29:56):
That would have been like, okay, well I wish I knew that earlier.
Yeah, I was a feral child, basically my mother's single mother's working
all the time. I was outin the wild baby, so you ran
wild and free. Yes, yeah, I can only say that now as
a parent of adult children. Yeah. Yeah, you don't want to say
that in front of your younger you'reyounger. I mean I used to get
this line from my from my parentswhen I come because I went eight years

(30:17):
of parochial school. The nuns canbe the next level. Yeah, yeah,
the nuns can be pretty tough.Well, I'd come home and I'd
complain to my mother. I said, Mom, the teacher hit me today
because I did this, and shealways said she should have hit you harder.
Yes, you know, mom,Mom bailed me out here. Mom,
No, you know I felt thatthese teachers in my school. And
I didn't go to a private school. This was a public school in southwest

(30:38):
Pennsylvania. But they believed in paddling. They believed in it something that I
did. I did not. Yougot Would you like to share your story?
Well, if I can qualify it, if there's enough type so yeah,
so sure, Yes. I asa kid, I was a bit
of a you know, a bitof a trouble maker. It's hard for
people to believe you're Abel, Yeah, citizen Hughes when he was you know,

(31:00):
junior high Hughes probably uh, Idon't know, probably got into trouble.
But anyway, I had a teacher. I got paddled three times in
the seventh grade by three different teachers. Wow, now what you can expect
from me out of those teachers thatpaddled me A very well behaved kid.
Okay, I figured it out.I got the program pretty quick per teacher.
Sadly, not overall my classes,but those that knew how to get

(31:22):
my attention. And then one day, one of the times, and again,
as I read this about how studentsare interrupting the educational experience, I
hate to admit that I was probablyone of these kids and I was horsing
around and I was back talking theteacher and I deserve to be paddled as
a looking back. Now, wellhe'd had enough, mister bitner, So
he's going to send his geography class. And I'm getting paddled. And the

(31:45):
policy was that they had to havea teacher with them to witness it.
And they take me into this roomand the door's open, and it's right
across from our cafeteria and there's astudy home there. So there's like my
peers that are in the city hallthat you're getting. They see the teacher
with the paddle, the other teacherand me walking in. Okay, they
know what they can't see me.But I have to hold onto a chair
and then whack, I get hit, and he asks do you want another?

(32:06):
And I don't say a word becauseit hurts so bad, and so
I'm just holding a second whack andI am telling you I can feel the
tears welling in my eyes, andhe asked, you want another? I
don't say a word. Hits mea third time, and I think to
myself, as a seventh grader,this man's not stopping until I answer his
question. So I said no,okay, and that you sound like yes,

(32:27):
yes, So it sounds like aseventh grader that's crying that his peers
in the cafeteria heard the plaintive no. And I don't know what was worse,
the paddling or the abuse of myfriends and people that heard me they
know as I was fighting back tearsand crying. But again, that might
sound extreme to a lot of listeners, but I got to tell you,

(32:47):
for a kid like me, wheremy mother's working all the time and you
know you're you're not taking your academicsvery seriously, there are ways that you
can hold students accountable, or thatI believe that you should. And in
the article that brought up this topic, in the schools and urban environments where
they have had so much chaos,they have held people to sitting up straight
and answering questions. They are seeingthese kids that are being prepared for and

(33:13):
attending college and rates and numbers they'venever seen before, even while being criticized
at the same time by people thatwant to be soft and they don't want
these kids to be held accountable.So you got the three wax. You
know what happened to me? Doyou have any stories. I'll tell you.
I will open up the phones tohear your stories. But like I
said, I went to parochial school, and I think it was in fourth
grade. Maybe we had a nun. Her name was Sister Mary of Peace.

(33:38):
We all called her Sister Mary ofWar. Yes, okay, that's
how we refer to it. Butyou could not chew gum in her class?
Yes, well guess what I waschewing gum in her class. So
you know what she made me do. Take the gum, put it on
the end of my nose, goin the corner, kneel on these concrete
floors and stick my nose to thewall and don't budge. So I was

(34:01):
there. You know, it feltlike I was there for eighteen hours.
Yes, but I think course twodays. But that was a discipline I
got. And you know they didn'tcare. Let me ask you, did
you chew gumming? Sister Mary aworst class? Ever? Never again?
Never again? I learned, neveragain. Those epiphanies were mine as well

(34:22):
as the seventh grader. After Iwas paddled it did I learned that I
needed to shape up. So myquestion would be, I think our question
is to our listeners today we'll openup the phones to a couple of questions.
What do you think about returning traditionaldiscipline? I don't know how you
define that, Greg, whatever thatis to the schools, would it make
a change. And maybe they've gota story to share about what a certain
teacher man to thee. I hope, I just haven't bore my soul.

(34:45):
And everyone's just judgy and they think, oh, he's just right. Well
yeah, well I'm learning. Youwere a bad kid. I mean,
every time you come in here,we talk about things you were a It's
why when I you're a rascal.Man. If COVID came when I was
a kid, I'd be like,I can't taste anything, I can't smell
every single day. I yes,I would have just I would have rode

(35:06):
that horse all the way. Ihad never been darkening the door of that
school again, all right? Eighteight eight five seven eight zero one zero,
or on your cell phone, dialpound two fifteen and say hey,
Rod, would you support the returnof traditional discipline or schools today? I'm
not sure how you would define that. And do you have a story you'd
like to share about the worst disciplineyou've ever faced? Maybe you get here

(35:30):
maybe no judge, No judge,we're gonna judge you. If you're a
rascal, you've got discipline. Wecertainly understand that. All right, more
coming up your calls eight eight eightfive seven o eight zero one zero,
or on your cell phone dial poundtwo fifty and say, hey, Roud,
what do you think this author meantby traditional discipline? Greg? What
is traditional discipline? It's not thediscipline I've just described her that you did

(35:50):
from Yeah, that's that's that's stillthat's that's still too disciplined for this.
This is a So they're the modelthey use. And by the way,
a lot of them kept using thepractice, but it was being maligned as
and it it's sad because they weresaying it was racist and it was a
bit as as it was at thesame time producing good students ready for college
like in grand numbers. But butthey did. They call it like a

(36:14):
money system where you earn points ordollars for good behavior, you lose them
for bad behavior. And at theend of the school at the school week,
there's a party that you can participatein if you're they say eighty five
percent of the students have enough oftheir behavior dollars to do it. They
get you can dress down and theyhave uniforms at this it's a charter school,
but they have these uniforms that youcan wear, a T shirt if
you made so much, and somethings you could buy at their store.

(36:37):
Why are we paying people to behave? Yeah? I know that's what I'm
like. This sounds soft and it'scalled hard. This is called this is
called being strict. It sounds likesoft as a pillows talk to me.
I don't understand it, but Idon't know if that would have been enough
for me. I'm grateful for uh, you know, having I mean they
had, they would paddle if youor they had. In school, suspension
was so much worse than out ofschool. Out of school was like get

(36:58):
out of jail free card. Yeah, I didn't mind. In school you
had to sit in his room andyou had to have your whole days work
in front of you, and youhad to sit in one room the whole
day. Man, I might havehad a d D. And as a
kid, I might have. Youknow, as adult looking back, that
was jail. That that was notsomewhere I wanted to be. Or they
sent you to the library. No, I got trouble there I got.
I got in that school. Youdid not get into trouble, No,

(37:22):
I got. That's one of thereason I got paddled once. One of
the lighter paddles that I didn't mentionwas that I got my study hall.
Teachers say, if you get kickedout of the library, you getting paddled.
I got kicked out of the library. I was being too loud.
Yeah, you got to be quieta library. Do you ever do the
the spitballs with the straws? Wouldyou stop? I already told you the
story about this. This is mythird example of my paddling. You take

(37:44):
a little spitball the different and ifyou hit them, it's well mine,
I was not. I was notheld back by the straw or its size.
I really creates a spitball by justchewing on a lot of paper and
throwing it at the screen. Didyou spit it or throw it? Throw
it at during a movie with asubstitute teacher? And so I got a
lot of tro's another one, youcovered the screen with spitballs? Well,

(38:07):
yes, but it was so Iwas. There was a there was a
response that that was a substitute teacher. I did that for that class,
and when the teacher came back andheard, I got paddled. So with
the principal as the witness on thatone. So yeah, yeah, that's
kind of that was kind of theway bait. Look again, I flew
straight after that boy. Yeah,well even with the substitute teacher. So

(38:30):
it was all seventh grade. Allthese stories came from my seventh grade year
and then you know, and thenyou grew up. No, but I
got better. I didn't caught.I just get so No, it was
good. That's why I, honestly, all in all sincerity, I do
think that having consequences to behavior isimportant and I think that I that my

(38:52):
school helped me understand that. Andin some home environments where you don't have
a strong parntal a presence or parentsthat to parent home or something like that,
these accountability measures do help you learnthat there's actions and then there's consequences
to those. Well, I think, Greg, one of the toughest jobs
in America today is being a teacher. Yeah, because if you if you

(39:13):
have a kid acting up in aclassroom, I don't know what the rules
are anymore. Can they can theykick them out? Can they yell at
them. I mean, these kidsare so soft anymore, they are you
don't want to upset them, andthey're what can you? What can you
do to these kids? This iswhat's going to scare I think should scare
everyone, whether you're a parent oryou're just hoping that this generation that's being
taught are going to be able tokeep society going. It's that I'm hearing

(39:37):
teachers that say that the kids probablyhave a smart or smart mouth like I
was, but there's not one thingthey could do about it. They can't
do anything about it. And theycan't they can't suspend them or expel them
or anything like that. And sothat leaves educators and administrators are a few
options and that and then all thatends up doing is interrupting the education experience

(39:59):
for all the students. Well,now I know you you moderated a couple
of panels, was it last weekor yeah? Yeah? The other side
of the other side Academy, whichis a great organization. Yes, I
mean I mean the team people,but they they have a different approach responsibility,
that's right, that it all comesdown to being responsible. They take
there's individuals that they're about to goto the clink because they've been bad that

(40:21):
the judge is going to sentence them, and they will suspend that sentence and
have them serve time at the otherside of academy where this is a much
longer program, uh, and thereare jobs and responsibilities and employment attached with
us. So you might see anotherside academy moving van where they do landscaping,
and these individuals instead of sitting ina jail or whatever the penalty is,

(40:42):
they go there and they learn,they want to learn a work ethic
and there is zero tolerance for fortheft or for or for I mean,
they just they really do have somestrong expectations. The opportunities are limitless.
You can actually stay as long asyou want, really really you can.
And but there's there's high expectations,high accountability, but the rewards if you
go to the other side academy.So we did this panel there and so

(41:05):
a lot of the discussion around homelessnessand around what's going on. Is it
getting better out there? Is itgetting worse? It didn't matter what political
stripe you were, you were paintedwith, it didn't matter what you thought.
Nobody thinks things are getting better outhere in America or in Utah.
And so then the begs the questionwhy, And it really gets back to
whether it's these public schools we're talkingabout, or even people experiencing homelessness or

(41:27):
you name it. If there isno accountability at any point. If you
if you were to give a urinetest and you fail, they're told they
can't tell you you failed, theyhave to thank you for coming in.
Well, as counterintuitive as that sounds, the rationale behind that is we want
them to know we care and wewant them to so that but what the
what the person who just did thatfailed that drug test knows is there's then

(41:50):
I'm fine. I can come here, I can enjoy whatever it is,
the meals, whatever, and Idon't have any there's no expectations I actually
have to meet. And that's thathas been proven to not be a best
practice. Now, the question Iwould have greg if you're a parent,
would you want a stranger a teacherto hit your child? No, if
they're acting up in school, it'swhy what do you do in that regard?

(42:13):
So I think I would suspect alot would not. They did in
my in the school I was in, you had to have another faculty member.
You had to have somebody that wherethey're watching with it. But but
I I don't know in twenty twentyfour, I don't know if you could
get back to that. The reasonI brought up some of the examples of
no excuses in this in this discipline, traditional discipline and accountability is because they're
not talking about what I'm talking aboutin terms of paddling. But I got

(42:35):
to tell you, I your mothersaid I wish she had she should have
hit your heart hit. I didn'thave. My mother wasn't on the side
of me. She wasn't pro me. She's never What did you do to
get yourself in that situation? Andwhy are you doing that? You know?
Because and I'm adding to my mother'sstress. And I could see it
as a kid that when when thatwas going on, and so I personally
would tell you I would be okaywith it. Well, the question I

(42:59):
have, Greg is the parents usedto be on the side of the educator,
yes, and now the parents areon the side of the child.
What changed? And here's the well, and this is what happens. Are
you are on the side of thechild, when you're on the side of
the teacher, because you know thatthat the teachers in that school is doing
their level best or trying to teachyour kid, and and being on your
child's side is to be on theside of those that have expectations for your

(43:22):
child. And I think that thosethat that and I look, I was
an education chair for a number ofyears when I served in the House,
and there were two narratives that werepretty dependable. You had parents that would
come to testify that would say thatthis school is failing my child. And
then you would have teachers and administratorsthat come and say, these kids are
are ignored basically at home, andthey become hungry, and they're and they're
cold in the wintertime, and weget kids that are unprepared to learn because

(43:45):
of the conditions at home. Andsomewhere in the middle lies the truth.
Right, it's not all the school'sfault, and it's not all the parents'
fault. There's a there's a blendin everyone's unique lives. But I think
that holding kids accountable in school andexpecting them to not be interrupting the education
or the teaching that's going on inthe classroom, I that would have been
intuitive just not long ago in mymind, and now we have to explain

(44:06):
why that's yeah, good thing.Yeah yeah, And again, like I
said, I don't know what teachersare allowed to do anymore. I mean,
can you kick a kid out ofclass? Can you take their cell
phone away? Which I understand isone of the big issues for a lot
of teachers nowadays, a lot ofgood and we are saying every kid is
a bad kid. I mean,we've got some really good kids here in
this state of paralyzes the good kids. Yeah, yeah, the panalizes the

(44:28):
good kids when the teacher constantly hasto discipline or ask a student to shut
up, or whatever the cads maybe. And I've never been in a
classroom. I have a son whois an educator. He was in a
classroom for a long long time,you know, and the thing that bothered
him more than anything. Okay,near the end of the term, Okay,
kid hasn't done any of his work. Yeah, he's going to fail
the class if he doesn't do hiswork. Who comes in and tries to

(44:52):
save the child? The parent?The parent, and you get to do
all this makeup, Like I didn'tget to make up an entire semester of
work to make up for the mistassignments and failed tests that you seem to
be able to do even right nowin our schools. But like I love
to hear from the audience or ourlistening audience, is what what do you
think it means to hold kids accountable? And does anyone want the kids paddled?

(45:14):
Like me? I think these littlelittle rug rats need to get paddled
with the bat. But it taughtyou, you learned it idea. That's
why I say I'm I was,I became. I became convinced you became
who you are today. I knowI can. Hey, it was three
d paddle three times to be convinced. Yes, I did three. I
had to does take three three oneschool here all right, more coming up.

(45:37):
It is wing Man Wednesday right hereon Utah's Talk Radio one oh five
nine k n r S. Thereis a you know, number of key
decisions coming down from the US SupremeCourt before their session ends in June.
One of them involves the Chevron deferencecase. Now, what this basically does,
from what I understand, Greg,is Congress passes a bill and then

(45:58):
it's up to the bureaucrats to interpretit. And you don't enforce the policy
of the bill, and it's gottencarried away. I mean, it's of
course, yeah, of course he'sgot carried away. So I want to
talk. I want to bring onour next guest. Her name is Brand
Depeche. She's looked at this.She's the energy and environment reporter at the
Washington Examiner. Brand, how areyou welcome to a Wingman Wednesday with Rod

(46:20):
ri Keett and Greg Hughes. Thanksfor joining us tonight, Hey, thanks
so much for having me on allright, could you explain me much better
than I did what the Chevron deferencecase is all about, Briand sure.
So, the Chevron deference is actuallythis forty year old Supreme Court precedent that
basically gives wide authority or deference ratherto the administrative agencies federal agencies when they

(46:45):
are interpreting laws passed by Congress.So the Inflation Reduction Act is actually one
great example, because when members passthe law, they don't see, they
don't fine tune, you know,every small detail of it. And so
then agencies come in like Treasury,like EPA, and they sort of qudify
it further, you know, determiningwho's eligible for tax credits, for example.

(47:07):
And basically by overturning this, theywould actually empower federal courts and judges
to make these decisions. Here's whatit does. It does so I used
to be a state lawmaker, andso it would really be impossible in my
mind to have a bill that isso prescriptive that it would not require any
administrative rules to be attached to it, so that you could see that the

(47:29):
bill and its legislative intent that watergets the end of the row. So
I would suspect that there has tobe some role for the administration that that
would be in charge of enforcing alaw or seeing that a law, a
bill was passing the law would work. That there would have to be that
existence. But like everything, andyou note in your article that like this,
these fishermen in Maine have to payan observer to watch them seven hundred

(47:51):
dollars a day, which many timesis more than their making as they're trying
to fish. Tell me, yousay that there is a judge judging by
the questions, It looks like thisthe Supreme Court made curtail or overturn the
forty years of precedent. If theywere to curtail let's say they don't say
that every Let's say that they aren'tnot going to say that every bill has
to have every jot and tittle ofhow something works. But what would a

(48:15):
curtailed regulatory power look like in yourmind? Basically? Gosh. So,
Chevron as it stands requires a sortof a two part legal test be administered.
Judges must first determine that the statutein question is sort of broad and
it lacks intent, which most statutes, of course do as you pointed out,

(48:37):
they don't get really in the smalldetails, which would be impossible for
members of Congress to get anything pastif that were the case. And then
they must determine that the agency isthen acting and reasonable what's called reasonable interpretation
of that law. So short ofChevron, if it were to be curtailed,

(48:57):
we would likely see a little bitmore tojudicial I don't want to say
activism, that's not quite the rightterm, but we would see federal judges
sort of acting more in a wayto interpret the law, which supporters of
or I guess those in opposition toChevron, have sort of long argued,
is the job of the courts tointerpret the law, you know, rather

(49:19):
rather than agencies. Yeah, Brian, you point out would the EPA in
Interior Department be really affected by thischange if if in fact it does come
across from the Supreme Court, wouldthey they be the two agencies really impacted.
I think we would see a lotof agencies impacted, quite frankly,
just given it is the most widelyused or widely cited administrative law or legal

(49:44):
president in circulation today. I thinkthere's like nineteen thousand citations of it in
legal text. So yeah, wewould see probably a lot of agencies affected,
but EPA Interior would be huge.Most sort of closely watched is blm'sublic
Lands Rule. They updated their multipleUse framework earlier this year to include conservation

(50:07):
on the same footing as fossil fuelsand other things under their public Lands Rule
or multiple use framework. So wewould likely see a challenge to that almost
immediately. And I spoke to folkswho said that, you know, without
sort of this chevron thumb on thescale as it were, you know,
we may well see courts ruling againstInterior and striking down this this proposed change.

(50:32):
So here's my question, because Ireally I don't we here in the
state of Utah, particularly on issuesof land and Bureau of Land Management.
We will we will find ourselves beinglitigated against as a state by environmental groups
quite often. In fact, it'sit's it's kind of one of the tools
of the trade. So going tothe judges more often doesn't bring me at
least to any kind of comfort.Would there be any environment where where the

(50:57):
legislative branch of Congress, I wouldhope would want to not be so overly
prescriptive, but put enough legislative intentin there that the administrative rules would not
depart from what they're trying to accomplish. Would you see a higher focus on
what those bills would say or isdo you really think that this just destines
these issues less to the regulators andmore to the courts. Yeah, well

(51:20):
one would one would hope that that'sthe case, right, And I think
that that Congress is actually admittedly,and you can ask anyone, I think
they discuss this at length and oralarguments. This January Congress has admittedly gotten
pretty lax in what sort of detailsthey include in their bills. Oftentimes they
will leave them purposely vague, leavingreally a lot of room some argue way

(51:43):
too much legal room or room forthe for the agencies to step in and
intervene in. You know, we'veseen cases where the agencies will you know,
issue really really tight standards that youknow, one could argue may actually
run a foul to the intent ofthe law. But you know, these
judge just you know, don't wantto be the one intervening. They're wary
that, you know, it couldbe appealed and be struck down. So

(52:07):
yeah, that is certainly something towatch, and I do think Congress is
also closely closely watching for this decisionto come down as well. Going to
be an interesting ruling from the SupremeCourt before the end of the term.
Brand thank you for joining us tonight. Thanks so much for having me.
Thank you for your work. Allright, thank you. It's going to
be interesting, Greg. I mean, you know, the complaint we're hearing

(52:29):
all the time. The federal governmentis growing, getting larger and larger,
and the rules and their regulations arejust choking people. Ron I can't tell
you how many times when I wasa lawmaker in legislative leadership where I would
sit with opposing parties on a givenbill, whether it was stream access and
fishermen with the private property rights ofa private property owner. And I would
say, and that's just one exampleof so many where they both sides feel

(52:52):
like the courts are going to bringthem relief that the legislative process is not.
And I would say, I promiseyou, I've seen all the time
that these attorneys, no matter howconfident you feel in your case, when
you leave your fate and judge,you have no idea. It's best to
have this resolve legislatively, where youcan work and hammer out that deal.
The problem with Congress and why thislooks like if the Chevron deference is curtailed

(53:15):
or whatever happens, that it bringsmore business to the courts, it's because
Congress has no backbone. They don'twant to write laws that have specific meaning.
They want it to be purposely vagueso they can't be criticized for what
they're passing. It's pathetic. Yeah, very good point. All right,
we've got a couple of calls we'regoing to get to here in just a
minute. They want to talk aboutschool discipline. We'll be doing that coming

(53:36):
up here on wing Man Wednesday inUtah's Talk Radio one oh five nine k
and R as discipline. If webrought it back in our schools, would
it make our schools better? Wewant to find out from you. Let's
go to Zaane in Ogden to night. He has an opinion on this.
Zaane. Welcome to wing Man Wednesday. Hey, thanks for having me Rod,
You're welcome your thoughts on this.Ye. So yeah. When I

(53:59):
was I mean, I'm probably partof the younger demographic of your radio show.
I'm thirty. When I was inschool, my dad would every time,
you know, he'd go in tomeet the new teacher for the school
year, he'd always say, youknow, if he if he's not paying
attention or he's being disruptive, goahead and just give him a flip on
the back of the head and he'lllift and right up. And that was

(54:19):
always I always viewed that as avery or back then I hated it obviously,
but now looking back at it,I think it's the perfect discipline for
in school, for a teacher,because it's something quick and efficient that grabs
a student's attention without embarrassing. Thatwas always my thing is I don't think
you should embarrass the student and callthem out, you know, remind them

(54:45):
that they're doing something they shouldn't bedoing and move on with the lesson.
Yeah, I love that, zayingsounds like your dad's a little wise man
on the back of the head.Zane, Thank you. Let's go to
James and Tuilla tonight here on wingMan Wednesday. Hi James, how are
you? My whole thing with thisis very simple to be consistent because kids

(55:07):
can smell can smell you know,bs form a mile away. As long
as you're consistent with kids and youand they can they can't see right through
you, You're fine. When itcomes to discipline. When you're not when
you're not fair, or when you'renot fair or making it difficult for the
kid, that's when the kid willshow disrespect. They can see right through

(55:29):
you. Yeah, Yeah, goodpoint. The kids are smart and it
goes back to that accountability level.And if you don't see that uniformly applied,
then you're then you're going to arguethat you're you should be an exception
like the ones you you watch.Yeah, well, kids are smart.
They'll play one side against the otherall day, and a teacher may be
upset and they'll try and plead theirkids to a principal and the principal may
go along with the kid all ofa sudden, man, you've got problems.

(55:52):
And look, it's it's not abashing on kids. I mean,
this is these are kids. That'sbut that's why we have kids right right
there, they're they're learning all thisstuff, and then it's it's that critical
moment where where accountability probably will getthem further in their lives, learning it
and responding to it then even later. So I think that it's not meant
to say that all kids are rottenand they need to be punished. It

(56:13):
really is how do you give themlife skills that help them in the moment
with their classroom but also going forward. Yeah, yeah, I mean you've
got to help these kids out.And you know it's like like my mom,
like my mom my wife said sayyes to your children as much as
you can, but sometimes you've justgot to say no, that's right.
Well, look you know what the'ssaying. And I've had my I've had

(56:36):
one of my kids, one myoldest ones, Sophie. She's the smartest.
No, sorry, I'm just kiddingother kids. No, I told
her a long time. I've toldall my children this, that love is
free and trust is earned. Okay, I've said this, and I've said
it to all of them, andSophie's repeated back to me as an adult
that stuck with her, which Ifeel fortunate. But what I was trying
to say, what I told herwas trust. You got to earn that,

(56:58):
and it comes from whether you makeyour curfews, what your grades look
like, what you how you behaveand that's that's how you earn trust.
It's very similar to what I said, you your your your trust tank becomes
fuller. Every time you do somethingthat you should be doing. You make
a mistake, that trust tanker isout the way, and you're screwed.
Man. My kids are not angels. And I find out my Sophia gets

(57:21):
older, she starts telling me how, like you know, the trust I
earned, like some of it mightnot have been deserved, like she was
under my nose, that there wasa little bit of a horse play.
Which they are my kids, right, what am I supposed to like?
They are? They have my DNAand you set such a fine example.
Well not the example I trick them. They thought I was an angel.
Okay, I just told them Iwas so good. Well, like I
said, I just I just feelso sorry for teachers because I don't know

(57:45):
what what position they're in anymore whenit comes to discipline, and there's not
In fact, I don't know ifthey even can do anything anymore. Yeah,
you know, and look there isI heard this saying. There was
a guy that was going around givingthe speech, and he was he had
been an administrator in a in athey call Title I schools where majority of
the students fit within the level offederal level of poverty. And he said,

(58:05):
look, if you graduate from highschool and you get a full time
job and then you get married,and you do it in that order college
they call it. In that order, graduate from high school, get a
full time job, then get married. Your percentage in the United States of
America was over ninety percent that youwould live you would not live in poverty

(58:25):
by that poverty standard. You wouldnot live in poverty if you did it
that way. That that standard andthat that combination, that formula in that
order was said to be racist.It was said to be discriminatory. Welcome
back our number three of Wigman Wednesdayhere on Talk Radio one oh five nine
can arrests with Rod our Kid andcitizen Greg Hughes. All right, now,
the state of Utah is about toimplement you know, some people call

(58:49):
it book banning, but it isn'treally basically looking at books that you know,
people determine are inappropriate for school libraries. And I don't think see anything
wrong with that, do you?I don't think wrong with it. No,
And in anybody that's trying to makea fuss over it would not be
able to repeat or or or recitethe books that are we're talking about and
and and what polite society or platecompany? Well, how many people have

(59:14):
tried to read lyrics? Are readlines from these books in front of school
boards? You can't say they gabblethem down like you can't say that here.
Oh so please put it in thekids library or in their cashroom.
But you can't say that. Youcan't say that. Well. The man
behind all of this and State RepresentativeKen Ivory, a good fan of the
show. Always great to have himback on. Ken, How are you

(59:34):
welcome to wing Men Wednesday? Hello, gentlemen, I'm doing great, great
summary. Oh my, is thisis this Jay Golden Kimball or is this
Ken Ivory? What's going on here? Well, we won't keep you too
long again. I'm worried you mayyou may fade on us if we don't
get through this quickly. Yes,real, great, guys, just don't

(59:59):
know what happened to the boy.Wow. I think you guys summarized it
extremely well. This is about protectingchildren, and nobody says limits on children
smoking or drinking, or driving,or going to war or using tanning beds
or meat slicers. There's no humancry about reasonable limits. And here,

(01:00:23):
like you said, Greg, thisis material you can't read on the air.
There was a TV show that hadall the moms come in and they
tried to read the material, andeven with the bleaps, you could tell
how just boulder it is. Sowe're at the point now that they're going

(01:00:45):
to get the list of the booksalready removed by August fifth that goes out
to all the Elias and any materialthat's been removed by three elias as get
this being criminally indecent and pornographic,that's what we're talking about. We're talking
about materials that are criminally indecent andpornographic. Any of those that have been

(01:01:09):
removed by three school districts already,they're out statewide. So we're speaking with
a represent Ken Ivory, a sponsorof this bill that is really trying to
get these vulgar pornographic bill books outof the away from in the presence of
children. And I think you articulatedit well where limits and reasonable limits that

(01:01:29):
we place on what kids are doingis not new, It's not new policy.
It's an interesting concept where you havea number of these school districts,
if they all concur then that it'scriminally, you say, and legally pornographic
it. So let me ask youthis. There was in the school board
meeting state school board meeting where theywere looking at it, putting administrative rules

(01:01:52):
around the bill that you've passed sothat this can be implemented. State school
board member Carol Lear laughed, joked, mocked it. A school board member
I tried to say, this isn'tactually funny, this is a serious topic,
of which she corrected her colleague who'sa member of the school board,
to say, this is not serious. This is not and I hope we
get sued. Is what were thewords that she used? Tell me,

(01:02:14):
Representative, when you hear a responselike that about your bill from a state
school board member, what is CarolLear, as a school board member missing
that she thinks is so funny aboutthis topic. You know, Greg,
just a few months ago there wasa young high school student sexually abused in
the classroom at West Jordan High School. Because we have studies, all sorts

(01:02:39):
of data that we know when yousexualize the environment, you increase sexual abuse,
and we're sexualizing this type this attitudesexualizes the environment for children, and

(01:03:00):
you know, the harms and damagesare well known. In fact, Greg,
in twenty nineteen, the state schoolboard put out a piece that said
protecting students from the harmful effects ofpornography in schools. And sadly, people
like Carolyner have actually scrubbed that fromthe website now, but they know this

(01:03:23):
is harmful to the brain development.It actually affects the physiology, It affects
the relationships, It affects their emotional, social, even the physical development.
This is harmful material and that typeof attitude is so dangerous, I believe

(01:03:45):
to children. And sadly parents havedealt with that all over the state when
they come up and they say,I want to protect my child, I
want to have the choice in myfamily over whether or not my child exposed
to material that you can't read onthe radio, that can't be shown on
TV, can't be posted on socialmedia. I want the ability to decide

(01:04:10):
and protect my child. And peoplelike that laugh and mock and shown them.
That's why it came to be statelegislation. But great to your point,
this type of material has been inthe Criminal Code as criminally indecent since
at least two thousand and seven.This is not new. What is new

(01:04:31):
is endangering children and this cavalier attitudethat we expose children to all sorts of
sexualization. And then there was atalk by Neil Maxwell to the Salt Lake
Rotary Club in nineteen seventy eight andit was called the prohibitive cost of a
value free society. He said,you can't afford a society that does not

(01:04:57):
put reasonable limits, especially on thedevelopment of children. Ken Ken, what
about those that are you look,you know, kids who are struggling with
their their gender identity or their theirsexuality. You know, are struggling and
they need to go somewhere to geta hold of information to help them understand
what's going on. That's why thesebooks need to be in schools. How

(01:05:19):
do you respond to that, Ken, You know, that's a great question.
Rob. This is not about anyof that. It's about the graphic
depiction description of sex acts and sexorgans in the state of sex acts doesn't
have anything to do with talking aboutLGBTQ relationships or transgender issues. But it

(01:05:46):
deals with graphic depictions, descriptions ofsex acts and set and body parts.
Then it doesn't matter who's having sexwith whom. And you know that's where
you get all of these arguments thatpeople bring up. But you mentioned trying

(01:06:09):
to read material. When I wasin the House committee, one after another,
the UEA, the Utah Library Association, the superintendents, the school boards
got up and opposed the bill oneafter another, and they said, this
is not that bad. He's blowingit out of the port. I said,
okay, fine, let's read justone of the things that's in many

(01:06:29):
of the schools around Utah. AndI read about four words. None of
them were bad words, none ofthem words you couldn't read on your show.
But I read about four words.And the minority leader, because I
have Jack point of order, Ihave Jack. We know where he's going
with this, and I don't wantto hear that. Wow, So it's
too offensive for the very people thatwanted in the schools, but they allow

(01:06:56):
it for children. This is likewe've slipped through some wormhole that we adults
protect children period. Speaking with KenIvory, represent Ken Ivory on a bill,
a critical bill that he has passed, and now we're into the administrative
rule process of getting this bill putinto action related to pornographic legally pornographic material

(01:07:18):
that is finding its ways into ourschools and the number of school districts that
identify that. When you get towhat is the number representative of school districts?
Three? I think yeah, threedistricts, right, Ken, Three
schools districts got it and so andthen so that would be the way it
comes out. Just I just thirtyseconds representative. Where where do parents fit

(01:07:42):
in in this equation in terms ofwhat they see or what they may come
across with their with their kids asstudents in the school. Is there a
role that they play that can helpbring attention to or have books scrutinized that
may may fit in the definition thatyou have of legally pornographic or harmful to
children. Oh my goodness, Greg, thank you for that question. Yes,
this bill came from parents and grandparentsthat were at their wits end.

(01:08:08):
They went to their schools and theirschool boards and they were treated just like
you described. They were mocked.It was condescending for many of them,
and they just simply disregarded their concernsto protect their children. This gives parents
their voice back. This allows parentsin areas where maybe their school district is

(01:08:31):
completely disregarded and they want to sexualizethe school as much as they can.
Well, we're going to have aminimum standard, and that's what this is.
This is a minimum standard statewide.Just like we have a minimum standard
for you don't drink it to yourcertain age, you don't drive it or
smoke to your certain age. Wehave a minimum standard for criminally indecent pornographic

(01:08:57):
material statewide. There's still so muchmore to do, guys, because the
idealization of crimes and sex and drugsand self harm and f words all over
the pages. Those are still inbooks, and with all the good books
in the world, to think thatwe have to have that on limited school

(01:09:18):
shelves is really a sad commentary.We need to be engendering and instilling in
our children the good, the clean, the pure, the powerful, the
positive, so that they have thatself restraint to self govern and be active,
contributing in society. Not appealing tothe basest, lowest interest in sexual

(01:09:44):
desire. History throughout the age justtells us that burns up young people.
And sadly, we have people onthe state school board that are willing to
just burn children up with sexual loss. That's adults protect children. One of
the great things about the bill,as it says, it prioritizes protecting children
overall other concerns. So parents,you take this legislation, go to your

(01:10:10):
school board members, go to yourschools and challenge materials they're offensive because you're
going to help parents around the entirestate. You sure are, Ken,
Always great to have you on theshow. Hopefully your voice gets better,
Ken, You take care of yourselfall right, Thanks, thank you,
Ken. We're doing great. Nicerepresent state representing Ken. Tough tough day

(01:10:31):
for I mean, he said hefeels great. Voice was tough. It
is and it used to be.Criminals used to beat up the kids.
The inmates that were assaulting kids.As soon as the criminals found out inside
of the jail, they beat theguy up. At least beat him up
or worse. And now we gottahave we got to have snickering in your
state school board. If you're tryingto get this filth out of the out
in front of kids, they can'tfind it anywhere else. That's why they

(01:10:54):
need it in schools. Really.All right, more coming up here on
wing Man Wednesday and Utah's talk,right, He'll one five nine can rs.
President Biden supporters view prioritizing family andmarriage far less important for society than
former President Trump supporters, according toa new study from Pew Research. Yeah,
because they're probably not married, they'reprobably single, selfish and self entitled.

(01:11:17):
There you go. I'm telling youthis poll Rod, It just says
everything to me that nineteen percent ofJoe Biden voters say society benefits from marriage
and having children. Nineteen percent ofJoe Biden voters, So eighty one percent
of people don't think it's important.Are you kidding me? I mean,
I've never seen an indictment of aparty and a president more than something that

(01:11:40):
says nineteen percent of Joe Biden votersbelieve that society benefits because of marriage and
having children. Wasn't that like abipartisan sentiment like kind of like we all
were arguing for families and for marriage. Isn't marriage and family the bedrock of
any society. How do you havea society, greg without family and marriage.
You don't, You simply do not. I mean, the Trump supporters

(01:12:03):
three times more likely than Biden's supporterswhen it comes to this issue, and
they stay, society is better offwhen you have marriage and let people get
married. I did not grow upin a traditional nuclear family. It was
it was not ideal. And Ican say honestly that that my life and

(01:12:23):
I would have been raised better ifI did have two parents in a home
and a stay at home mom.That would have been a better way.
I do not think that, andI love my mother, But single parenthood
versus two parents and a family,I don't even think it's worth arguing in
terms of what's healthier for the childgrowing up. But if you look at
the voters of Joe Biden, theythe jury's out or not out. They've

(01:12:44):
decided it's not it's not benefiting societyto have marriage and that within that marriage
have children. Well, there's Thesurvey also looks greg and has found sharp
differences between voters and the nation's decliningbirth rate. Europe is experienced what has
happened when you have a declining birthrate, they don't have enough workers anymore.
Goes to fill the jobs. There'snot that what they call it the

(01:13:06):
replacement ratio or something like that,something like that. And here in the
United States, apparently those on theleft and supporters of Joe Biden says,
maybe we don't have children. Nota big bob. Well here's let me
just give it. So Utah isahead. We're seeing our children per adult
starting to shrink, but we areprobably a generation ahead of the national average.

(01:13:27):
So we still have more children percapita than other states. What that
has done for the state of Utahin terms of its economic strength is that
it gives us that emerging workforce thatyou talked about, Rod. It gives
you an infrastructure of how your economywill grow because you have people. I
was when I was the Speaker ofthe House, got to speak with other

(01:13:47):
Speakers of the House of other statesand Wisconsin. Their big challenge was that
they were an older population of astate. And he would he was a
Republican. He say, I'm asupply sider. I want to bring as
much manufacturing into Wisconsin's possibly can't.I just don't have the employee because I
don't have it. It's like,and I'm thinking of my head, Well,
that's not Utah's problem. We haveplenty of young people that can work
in these fields and do this,and that's an advantage, that's an infrastructure.

(01:14:10):
That's an advantage to any society tohave a strong birth rate inside their
state. That's why we're doing betterthan a lot of other state Right now.
We've slowed down a little bit.We're having as many children as we're
used to have. But still,I mean, we're kind of holding up
one end of the bargain here orhere in the state of Utah. And
we are. And then when youadd the interest rates going up and what
the Democrats are doing by way ofinflation. But then when it doesn't include

(01:14:32):
housing, but then when you talkabout interest rates going up, that does
impact housing. Those variables are harmingour young people and making it so that
even though we have this strong infrastructureof young people in Utah, how are
they to live here and stay hereif they can't afford to live here.
Well, and it's you would haveknown this, Greg and the legislature isn't.
The appeal to many outside businesses tomove into the state is that we

(01:14:56):
have a young population for the mostpart, well educated for the most part.
Many of them can speak a differentlanguage because of the LDS church and
there and the missionary program. Imean, those are attractive features and we
can't lose that if we want tostay ahead of the game exactly right.
And our delivery of education, Imean, even our institutions are higher learning.
If you look at what the costis for that, it's it's manageable

(01:15:18):
versus how much it costs in otherstates. So it is a big draw
for the economy to grow and forthose businesses to arrive here. But I
got to tell you that if weif we let the current trajectory go where
we're just trying to shoehorn everyone intothis four county valley of the Wahsatch Front,
there's not enough room, there's nosprawl, there's not enough room with

(01:15:39):
the mountains. So the cost ofliving cannot continue to go up with the
quality of life going down. Andus believe that our young people are going
to be staying there, We're goingto spend tax payer money and our families
are going to grow up and they'regoing to We're going to be exporting our
emerging workforce out of Utah. Thispoll that the Joe Biden voters don't think
that marriages and kids inside those marriagesmatter. It is. It is the

(01:16:00):
worst and it is the worst approachgoing forward that I can imagine. And
it's set in a nutshell here.All right, I want to go to
a call real quick before we goto a break. We have a caller
on. They want to go backand talk about discipline in the school from
Provo Tonight wants to join us hereon the wing Man Wednesday. Tim,
thank you very much for joining us. You're welcome. I just wanted to

(01:16:23):
say that when I was in thesixth grade, I was a class town.
I was always in trouble, youknow, getting sparried by the principal.
I like you, Tim, You'regood. All your stories reminded me
of myself. So we had anolder substitute come in for a few days
and she put up with me forthe first day or so and then she

(01:16:44):
uh, I interrupted, and shesaid, Okay, when we're in the
class, this is my time.Resas and lunch are your time. So
if you interrupt me, does itmatter, doesn't matter who it is.
If you interrupt, you're I'm gonnatake a minute of your time. So
she, uh, you know,I made a joke. She put a
little check mark on the board andupon about the stink guy from a couple

(01:17:09):
of kids, and made another joke, another check and then three or four
check marks up there. My jokeswere not funny. When the bell rang
for lunch, bell rang for lunch. Uh, shot on everyone, you
owe me four minutes and I hadto sit there for four minutes and it
seemed like four hours with everybody staringat me. And from then on that

(01:17:30):
class was dead silent. She beautiful, you know, teach away and there
was you know that really really worked. It sounds like, yeah, letting
the other kids do the disciplining forher. Wow, I'll tell you what.
That's a beautiful story. I loveit. I absolutely love it.
It's like missed her Hands from anothermovie where he had his time and Jeff

(01:17:51):
Spacoli was taking his time, sotaking it bright but no that thank you
Tim for calling in and sharing thatexample. So the no paddles involved,
and yet you're still scarred by thatNo, I'm not scarred at all.
But I just don't want people tothink that, oh, we can't be
tough on the kids are expectings fromthem, because there are ways to be
tough. Yes, and now Ithink Tim just that that teacher that was
a genius way to do it.It really is all right wing Man Wednesday

(01:18:14):
continues right here on Utah's Talk Radioone O five nine k nrs. Freddie
Gray, who writes for the DailyMail, which is a very good website,
Daily Mail UK, by the way, said it's impossible to deny that
Joe Biden is increasingly loopy. Yeah, that was the headline in the story
today. Now the New York Postwrote, pray Biden will freeze, slur

(01:18:39):
and stumble his way to defeat intwenty twenty four US and he can't take
four more years of this. No, I want to give you an example.
Okay, Biden yesterday after we haven'teven talked about Hunter. Now,
yeah, we didn't. You knowwhy, because it's like it's like a
jaywalking charge. When the guy's beenyou know, all this foreign influence and

(01:18:59):
all those things he's done that haveactually been you can connect to the president
when he was Vice President that nobody'stalking about. This gun charge is just
small ball. Here's why I likeabout it. No longer can Biden refer
to Donald Trump as a convicted felon, Well he can, but he has
a retort that will come back prettyquick. Yeah, all all Donald needs

(01:19:21):
to say is hunter. Yeah.And he keeps saying Donald Trump had a
fair trial. Well, he's alreadyin being quoted as saying that his son
did not receive one. So well, I want to play a couple of
sound bites he after the conviction washanded down, the President Biden went to
the a gun safety conference talking aboutgun violence. All right, here's an

(01:19:42):
example of Joe Biden decomposing as hegives this speech. Instead of trying to
stop our ban on ghost gun kitschthat contain these commit crimes, their work
alike helders to stop it. Whatdid you just say, I just don't
know. They're working like hell tostop it. Yeah, I just we
don't know. And he told anotherwhopper. We've heard this before. No

(01:20:06):
longer the Vice President. I becamea professor at the University of Pennsylvania.
Before that, I taught a constitutionallaw class, and so I talked to
the Second Amendment. There's never beena time that says you can own anything
you want, and never you couldn'town a cannon during the Civil War.
I'm sair to think about it.How much have you heard of this phrase?

(01:20:29):
The blood of liberty cross your though? Give me a break. First
of all, he never taught aclass at the University of Pennsylvania. Okay,
they paid him a million dollars forhis name, right, And apparently
I understand that during the Civil Waryou could own a cannon. Yeah.
I was gonna say, you'd belucky if he could get one. But
I don't think there was any prohibition. There was no prohibition. Just because
they didn't how one, didn't meanthey couldn't. Yeah, he couldn't be

(01:20:51):
Yeah. No, he is justsliding everything. Did you see him freeze
up at the Juneteenth celebration that theyhad at the White House the other day?
All these people are around him dancing. Yeah, well, he just
looked lost. But here's what Iwill say, why this is so dangerous.
It's not that he's so disoriented andconfused that he's harmless. What gets
worse with a president like this isthat at least you had, even with

(01:21:14):
Barack Obama. The man knew thatwhatever was going on in his administration,
history was watching and there would bean account And so some of the worst
ideas are the most aggressive agendas.Even he would be careful because his name's
attached to it. Where you havea president that doesn't know what day it
is, let alone that his name'sattached to whatever is going on. You
want to talk about faceless bureaucrats thathave endless power, you do in this

(01:21:35):
situation because there's no Biden legacy tobe protected by the President himself, and
so they get to run amuck withno accountability because we don't know who they
are that are actually running this country. It's a bad combination. How much
more obvious can it be to theDemocratic Party Greg that Joe Biden is failing
and he's losing it. I meanthe way he walked the may you know,

(01:21:57):
we were talking him before the breakabout him at this juneeenth celebration at
the White House the other day,and he froze, He paused, he
liked froze. He didn't know whatto do, And I mean, it
is becoming so obvious. He's indecline. He's eighty one years old and
people age differently, and just inthe three years since he's been president,
you can see that decline. Heis not the same Joe Biden that beat

(01:22:18):
Donald Trump back in twenty twenty.He's not great. So yeah, And
here's the thing is that you'd askyourself if you're even if you think you
have the magic mail and ballot marginand in your big cities, you have
to be able to sell to theAmerican people that this candidate actually did win.
Okay, And it's getting harder andharder for people to even imagine that

(01:22:40):
Biden could run, let alone serveanother four years. So that prospects.
But why aren't we hearing it fromDemocrats. Well, there's a tweet that
came out that I want to sharewith you, kind of repeating what I
had already said. But that's fine. I think it's good to hear people
who look at it the same way. But this is it. Well,
you've argued, you've argued all year, you don't think he's going to be
the nomin And actually this observation isa little more surgical in its observation,

(01:23:03):
and it's saying there's a sweet spotwhen the Democrats would replace Joe Biden as
the candidate, and that would notbe during a primary where they would have
other candidates running against them. Itwould not even be during the convention,
which is where I had thought you'dsee a broker convention. Well, Kamala
Harris might argue that she should bethe one if he's going to drop out.
Interestingly enough, between August twenty thirdand September tenth, those days so

(01:23:29):
just after the day after the conventionwhere he's nominated, and up until September
tenth, the Democrat National Committee,it's committee members can elect. If Joe
Biden were just saying I'm out,I can't do it, folks, I
got the as I got the nomination, but I'm done. I'm done,
you would have an elite group ofDNC party members Democrat National Committe they could

(01:23:50):
vote for his replacement. And sothe person who's saying says, look for
this sweet spot between August twenty thirdand May tenth, or sorry, September
tenth, where the DNC two hundredodd people could decide who that replacement is.
So you're not bothered with primaries oreven a broker convention of national delegates.
The DNC party elite. They woulddecide that seems to be on brand.

(01:24:13):
And the person says, if that'sthe case, and that's how you
could see maybe a Michelle Obama ora Susan Rice emerge as the nominee.
So would what would happen with Kamalain that case? Would she be out
as well? I think they can. I think that the DNC, the
Democrat National Committee, if the presidentwere to say I'm dropping out, all
bets are off, that's not aticket anymore, and they could decide what
that ticket would look like and whethershe stays on. Is it fair to

(01:24:35):
equate this greg with you know somefamilies have had to go through this.
Okay, have an elderly parent andyou make the decision to take the car
keys away. Yes, that's notan easy decision to bank. I mean
a card to a lot of peopleyoung are old is kind of their independence.
That's right. They can go whereverwhenever they want. And as you're

(01:24:56):
a if you've been a parent andyou have an elderly parent, you know,
and you have to go to himand say, mom, dad,
we're concerned about your safety. We'veseen you drive. We just we can't
let you have the keys anymore.So for the Democratic Party, is this
like taking the keys away from JoeBiden. I mean, Joe Biden right
now is the most powerful man inthe world, and you're trying to take

(01:25:17):
the keys away from Yeah, andyou know those moments of clarity which he
has, however he gets there.I don't think they're long enough for them
to not be able to be topersuade Joe Biden, if they haven't already
Joe Biden their team that they arenot going to win this race, that
there isn't any version and if theydon't want Donald Trump to be the next
president of the United States, they'regoing to have to think long and hard.

(01:25:40):
But what's interesting is that won't happen. I think it makes sense until
that sweet spot of those dates fromthe August twenty third to September tenth,
until you get into that window,because having the Democrat National Committee members,
so there's a party elite make allthe decisions, would be very on brand
for the Democrats right now. Youknow, they like to say we're saving
democracy while they're the one that areripping apart our institutions. I really think

(01:26:01):
that the party elite picking a replacementticket is is a real scenario. You
have been saying in the past,you're concerned, why isn't the party or
the Biden campaign pivoting? That's right, they don't want going toward the middle.
And maybe maybe this part of theplan. It is I think I
think it builds the case for whyhe can't, he shouldn't continue on.
And but there's timing. Timing iseverything with this. And it's true anytime

(01:26:26):
you've seen elections come, you've seenthere's been unpopular positions or negative polls,
which we have plenty of, andyou know, the approval rating at a
historic low for Biden, you wouldsee a massive pivot. You'd see an
ankle breaking pivot. It's never happened, and you and you have it forced.
It begs the question why, yeah, well that does it for us
Tonight We'll be back at do yourealize let's see, Yeah, it's over.

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