The Rod and Greg Show: Potential Government Shutdown; Protecting America's Churches; No Trust for Dems

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It looks like we're headed for a government shut down.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (00:03):
The President met with Schumer and Jeff Reeds this afternoon.
They walked out and said, WIM got a deal.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
Well, you know, I think America has become very fatigued
over this so called brinkmanship. It's happening so often now
until until we get I just it's fine, it's fine.
I don't I'm not saying it's fine, like I want
the members of the military not to be funded and
everyone else. But it's it's amazing that the Democrats were accusing,

(00:29):
you know, the Republicans who didn't want to agree to
a deal because it was too much, too aggressive of
spending in there, and and so the Republicans were looking
like they were going to do it, and it was
the worst thing. This guy was literally falling over the
callousness of the of the Republicans. Now that they're not
spending enough, especially healthcare for I legal aliens, they want
to shut it down. Now now it's still somehow the

(00:51):
Republicans fall.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Let them do that, So we'll talk about that. Of course,
we've got the shooting at a church of the True
Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints in Michigan yesterday morning.
We'll have the latest down that we have a little
bit more about the gunmen who carried out that mass shooting.
Charlie Kirk, suspected assassin back in court today and a

(01:12):
warning from the judge today. I thought that was very
interesting and we'll get into that. And speaking of church security,
what happened in Michigan yesterday raised a lot of questions
not only for the LDS churches around the country, but
also for any church around the country, because most of
them do not allow guns in their in their churches,
and that's going to raise a lot of questions. Greg,

(01:33):
there's a real debate going on now.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
There is, And you know, we were seeing the times.
The times have become very extreme. I've never really used
religious terms to describe politics, but I find it demonic
to celebrate anyone's murder without regard to their party affiliation
or opinion. We now find out that the condemning murder
I really is a political issue, and so we're living
in what I would call evil times. And so if

(01:56):
it's good versus evil, go look at those churches. The
churches are going to be I think more of a
topic or more, gaining more attention from a radical left
that has completely lost its way at best, Yeah, and
is demonic at worse. They're going to look at our church.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, well you can just think the last two incidents.
We had it at the Annunciation Church and school there
in Minneapolis and then one yesterday in Grand Blanc, Michigan.
And what do churches do by way of security? I mean,
there are some things they can do, but are they
going to have to put people with guns inside the
church build?

Speaker 3 (02:28):
Well, the worst person to ask whether how to how
to load up and how to protect a place, be
you're ecclesiastical leader. It's not where his head's at or
he or they're gonna they're not going to even think
about those things. But those things actually have to be contemplated.
And I'm sure that our church and it's it's plan
going forward, there's going to be some uh.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Some solution.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
You guys have to bring some solutions to the table,
and I think that'll that's going to happen.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
We'll see what happens. Let's get down, Like I said,
we've got a lot to get to and of course
we invite you to be a part of the program today.
Eight eight eight five seven eight zero one zero triple
eight five seven eight zero one zero on your cell
phone dial pound two fifty and say hey Rod or
leave us a talkback coming on our talkback line by
downloading the iHeartRadio app. All right, let's get to the

(03:13):
latest we have concerning the shooting there at Michigan. The
search for bodies is over. I think death toll is
what at four five if you include the shooter involved
in this. So what a tragic tragget story that was yesterday?

Speaker 3 (03:29):
It really was, and it's I mean, look, if you
know the details, most of our listeners, because they listening
to the show, they're wicked smart. They pay attention to things.
But if you're not aware of all the details. A truck,
a pickup truck, ram through the doorway adjacent to the
chapel itself while the sacrament meeting was going on. So
the meeting starts at ten. This happened at ten twenty five.

(03:51):
So this is when even the stragglers like the Hughes
family give come in, you know, after the sacrament. So
all my kids thought that you took sacrament in four years.
They had no idea there was a whole church inside
the chapel thing going on anyway, it was at a
time where you'd have to be aware of how the
church services are held, where you would have the most
people inside of that, inside that chapel, and then horrifically

(04:15):
rammed the truck through and then not only was he shooting,
but he set the building on fire. Yeah, and people
were trapped inside as well. So, I mean, I can't
it's hard to even describe in all honesty, but it
was someone that you know, it was targeted because there
was just too much knowledge, institutional knowledge of what would
be going on in that building and what time and

(04:36):
you know.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
Who and where.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
So the shooter has been identified if you don't know
by now, he's a forty year old military EVET. His
name is Thomas Jacob Samford. Interesting story about this greg
Two officers, one I think with the one with the
police department, the township police department. Another I think he
worked for the Wildlife Service in that area. They responded
within eight minutes and took him down very very quickly,

(05:01):
but still the damage had been fun done. The church
was a flame. I mean he used some sort of
accelerants to get that fire going. I'm not sure what
do you.

Speaker 3 (05:10):
See how much of that building is destroyed. It So
it's the steak center for that area, which is where
many you know where it's the bigger building of ward,
you know, chapels or congregations, and so it was that,
but there is a particular ward that meets there. But
that building is particularly large because it's a stake center
as well. Most of that building has been gutted completely
by that fire.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
It's gone, it's gone. Sanford was married, he had a
ten year old son. As we mentioned, he was a marine.
Interesting theory is the motive behind this was he had
a lot of animosity toward members of the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. As a matter of fact,
there's a city councilman who is out campaigning just a
couple of days before this and knocked on his door

(05:51):
and had a conversation with him. Said he was very friendly,
but he was very much against the Mormon religion. Now
I don't know what triggered that or what happened there,
but that's what we're getting.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Today, and is can we confirm was he did he
live in Utah at any time?

Speaker 2 (06:04):
I heard?

Speaker 1 (06:05):
So here's a lot more Committee or worked outa there
what we've heard as well, So we'll have to see
if we can confirm that. Now Charlie Kirk's assassin, Tyler
Robinson back in jail, are back in court today again
virtually basically as defense attorney was there listening to this case.
That's just part of the procedure. But I think what
was most interesting today was a comment at the end

(06:28):
of the hearings made by the judge. The judge's name
Tony Graff, and he basically laid out some conditions is
how he wants this upcoming trial, if there is one
to proceed.

Speaker 4 (06:37):
Justice demands that both of these principles, the rights of
the accused and the rights of victims, be honored without compromise.
I remained steadfast in my oath that I made fifty
six days ago to support and defend the constitutions of
the United States into Utah. I will carry out my
duties with fidelity, transparency, and partiality, treating every person who

(07:02):
appears before me with the dignity and respect they inherently
do because they are human beings. Let me be clear,
I will not put my finger on the scale of justice.
These proceedings will be open to the public, conducted in
accordance with the law, and handled with diligence and competence
to ensure that justice is never compromised. It is the

(07:26):
standing order of this Court that mister Robinson shall be
allowed to appear in person so he can fully engage
with his attorneys and participate in these legal proceedings. Council,
regardless of who is watching, whether it is the nation
or a single individual, we must fulfill our roles with integrity, civility,

(07:49):
and diligence. I encourage each of you to give your
very best to this case.

Speaker 5 (07:53):
Now.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
If that there is a district Judge Tony Graff, from
what I understand, Greg, there will be a hearing of
preliminary hearing on October thirtieth. That's pretty standard. I think
the defense of Tyler Robinson wants to see how much
evidence they have against Robinson in the shooting of Charlie Kirk.
Of course, the prosecution won't share all of it, but
enough to convince the judge to bind this over for trial.

(08:17):
So the next court date and he will be in court.
From what we understand I'm talking about, Tyler Robinson is
schedules for October.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
Thirtieth as a season the public defender. She has been
the public defender in San Diego as well as in Utah,
has been doing this for thirty years. And so someone
that they brought, I believe, out of state with having
experience here in the state of Utah to give this
defendant the strongest representation they can, so that I would

(08:43):
imagine that so that there's not appeals, because you'll see this.
Sometimes they appeal because they didn't get good counsel or
there was something wrong with the representation that the defendant had,
so they want to appeal based on that. So I
don't mind that he has a top shelf public defender.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
That be the case.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yep, that's the way the system works, all right, more
to come. It is the Monday afternoon edition of The
Rotten Gregg Show right here on Utah's Talk Radio one
oh five nine. Kayn or I Jimmy Kimmel. I'll mention
this just one time. Okay, did you see what happened
to his ratings? No, they've dropped seventy percent.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
When Jimmy Kimble's on the air and I don't see him,
is he really on the air?

Speaker 6 (09:21):
Really?

Speaker 7 (09:22):
Really?

Speaker 3 (09:22):
In my brain he's not. I know he hasn't been
on the air for a long time, but how much
would you say?

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Seventy percent?

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Of course?

Speaker 1 (09:28):
Seven zero.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
It was just it's like who shot Jr. If you
remember back in the day, a lot of viewers wanted
to see who it was. You don't see if he
was going to apologize or not. He didn't, and his
show's going to still stink. I think you're going to
see him get let go on no talent. I think
that could be that maybe that's a factor. We don't
want to misunderstood that it was. It was you know,
it was anything else, and that wasn't the president, it
wasn't free speech. You just are terrible. No one wants

(09:52):
to watch your show, and that's why we're going to.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Let you go.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Well, the shutdown summit apparently has failed to produce a deal.
The President met with a Shumer and Jefferies this afternoon
and they walked down and said Matt Liam got a deal.
So it looks like the government may be headed for
a shutdown. Let's talk more about it right now with
our next guest joining us on our any hour Newsmaker
line is Kurt Couchman. He's a senior fellow in fiscal
policy at Americans for Prosperity. Kurt, always great to have

(10:17):
you on the show. Are we headed for a showdown?

Speaker 8 (10:19):
Kurt?

Speaker 6 (10:19):
I think we're going to have a government shutdown?

Speaker 1 (10:22):
And why is that?

Speaker 8 (10:23):
Kurt?

Speaker 1 (10:23):
You sound pretty pretty solid on that assessment. Why is that?

Speaker 6 (10:27):
Well, Republicans have already passed a clean continuing resolution through
the House of Representatives. Only one Democrat voted for it there.
And in the Senate they brought that up for a vote.
It got Republican votes, but not enough to pass. It
takes sixty votes in the Senate. And then the Senate
Democrats put forward their proposal, which would include an extra

(10:50):
one point five trillion dollars in spending, a lot of
that for healthcare giveaways to insurance companies. And I think
ultimately what it comes down to is Democrats like their
base wants them to fight, and so they're going to
fight the government into a shutdown for some period of time.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
The thing that when we this is becoming so frequent,
I almost think that the American people are are are
taking debate less in terms of all the draconian narratives
that come around a government closure and certainly there are consequences,
But the way it's always been presented is it's always
a Republican's fault. Doesn't matter who the president is, Republican
or Democrat, doesn't matter who the who controls Congress, whatever

(11:29):
it may be. If the Republicans are in a position
to negotiate a budget and without their support, but the
government could shut down, it is always, without exception, the
Republican's fault. How is it that they can change and
change the narrative to always match up with it being
the Republican's fault. Why do we fall for this?

Speaker 6 (11:49):
Yeah, it's kind of an amazing thing, especially when you
look and see that Republicans have introduced a number of
pieces of legislation to make government shutdowns no longer possible.
Thunder Langford from Oklahoma teamed up with Representative Arrington from Texas.
They have a bill called the Prevent Government Shutdowns Act.
The Senate tonight is voting on Senator Ron Johnson Wisconsin's bill,

(12:10):
the Eliminate Shutdowns Act. So they are trying to make
shutdowns a thing that aren't possible because they were only
created in nineteen eighty by the Jimmy Carter administration saying
that a really old law meant something completely different from
what everybody thought that it meant up until that time. So,
you know, the process isn't good, it's not healthy. And

(12:31):
part of the reason is because you get all this
spranksmanship around government funding, which is supposed to be the
most basic duty of a legislature.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Kurt, have the Democrats back themselves into a corner on
this one, almost a no win situation for the Democratic leaders.

Speaker 6 (12:46):
Yeah, I mean I think so, and they're going to
cave at some point because they you know, there's an
impression that, you know, Democrats care a lot more about
government programs than Republicans, but that's not strictly true. I mean,
we've got defense is the most important job of the
federal government. About half of the spending that will be
delayed will be for defense. Another chunk that is for

(13:08):
homeland security and veterans affairs. But for whatever reason, there's
this perception out there. But Democrats are going to fight
for a little bit. They're going to satisfy their base,
and then ultimately they're going to vote to reopen the
government through November twenty first, because that's the legislation that
is available from the House that is sitting in the
Senate right now.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
You know, one of the narratives last week was from
the Trump administration is put a bow on it. You
guys all walk off the job or are not bringing
most of you back. We've been wanting to cut all
this employment does federal all of these federal jobs. This
is this is a perfect way to do it. Thanks
a lot Democrats. Is there any merit to that plan?
I love the idea. I think it's great, But that
just was that bluff or is that real? Or what's

(13:50):
the status of potentially being able to reduce federal employee
workforce with a shutdown?

Speaker 6 (13:55):
Well, the only thing I can say with certainty is
I guess we'll find out.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
That's very certain, very bold of me.

Speaker 6 (14:05):
Yeah, I mean, this administration has been testing the boundaries
of a lot of different things, and a permanent reduction
in force that the Director of the Budget Office at
the White House floated recently that's not been done in
previous shutdowns. Whether the courts would step in to say, no,
you can't do that, I guess we'll have to see.
But they're going to give it a go, and we'll

(14:26):
see what happens.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
That sounds like Doge without Doge to be really honest
to me, Kurt, I don't know if you've seen these stories,
but there are actually some federal employee unions out there
who are urging the Democrats to you know, shut down
the government even if they lose their jobs, just to
stick it to Donald Trump. Is it that bad in Washington?

Speaker 6 (14:47):
I mean, I've seen people say crazy things during my
time here in DC, and so it doesn't surprise me.
I mean, part of the reason why the twenty eighteen
to twenty nineteen shutdown ended is because a bunch of
air traffic trollers got sick quote unquote essentially a strike
but not calling it that. So yeah, we could see

(15:08):
similar dynamics like that playing out. I mean, what Democrats
are holding out for, largely is to keep massive subsidies
to health insurance companies going in health insurance coverage to
people that don't have legal status here, you know, llegal
aliens and all that, and all the fraud and abuse
and waste that goes on in healthcare because there's a
lot of people that aren't even eligible for these programs,

(15:30):
don't know that they're enrolled. It's a big mess that
a lot of that was cleaned up with the reconciliation
bill that passed earlier in the year, So they want
to roll that back. They want to keep Biden's COVID
tax credits for Obamacare exchange subsidies, you know, maximized, even
though the pandemic is long over. It's just ridiculous stuff.
And you know, some of that money certainly flows into

(15:52):
places that benefit Democrats. So I guess that's that's the strategy,
to just keep the money flowing to all their constituencies.
And you know, who cares about American taxpayers.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
So again, I know, you don't know, you don't have
a crystal ball. I think that what you saw with
net Yahoo meeting with the president today, Isn't there just
an overload? Isn't there just too many fronts for the
Democrats to really take on President Trump. He's moving on
so many significant issues where it's really capturing the American
people's attention. Does the work ethic and the big issues

(16:25):
that Trump takes on more broadly actually strengthen his hand
in these the government shutdown negotiations.

Speaker 6 (16:32):
Yeah, one thing that Trump administration has been doing is
just going like gangbusters and changing from one thing to
the next thing to the next thing. It is a
lot to keep up with. It's kind of exhausting, honestly,
and the fact that we even have to negotiate over
just continuing the funding for the government. Sender Langford put
it well that government shutdowns are a waste of time, money,
and energy. One you mentioned a little bit ago, the

(16:55):
you know, why can't Congress just do a budget and
get the job done? And actually that's exactly the right point,
because Congress doesn't do a budget right now. They do
twelve appropriations bills, supposedly separately, usually not, but those all
all together are only a quarter of spending and none
of the revenue, and so it only really involves one committee.
Most committees aren't involved, Most members aren't involved, don't feel

(17:17):
any ownership in the annual process, and that's a lot
of the reason why it breaks down every year and
then we get stuck with these omnibus spills right before
a holiday, because that's the only way to pass anything
that most members don't feel connected to.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Kurt. Thank you, Kurt Couchman from the Americans for Prosperity.
It looks like we may be headed for a government
shutdown mar Coming up on the Monday edition of the
Rod and Greg Show on Talk Radio one oh five
nine KNRS. Let me share some numbers with you, Greg
that I find startling. Since twenty twenty, nearly four hundred
Catholic churches have been vandalized or desegrated. The Family Research

(17:51):
Council says more than four hundred attacks on churches happened
in twenty twenty four. First Liberty reports at four hundred
and thirty and twenty twenty three amazing. And we've had
chapels of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day
Saints being attacked over the years as well.

Speaker 3 (18:07):
We have we've had that happen. It really, I think
we are living in times. It's one thing those instance
she described, they were kind of isolated.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
They weren't.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
There wasn't like a build up, It wasn't happening every week.
It feels like we're accelerating in a very bad direction
right now. And so I think if there's if it's
if it's good versus evil, and we feel that more
today than ever. I think our churches, I think places
of worship may be catching the attention of people that
have bad intentions.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
Well, what do we do about it? Joining us on
our nouns micro line is Carl Chen. Carl is president
of the Faith Faith Based Security Network. Joining us, Carl,
thanks for joining us tonight. Your thoughts on what happened
in Michigan with a chapel of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter day Saints yesterday.

Speaker 9 (18:53):
Oh listen, there is a very distinct and the direct
lesson learned here. I so much agree with the fact
that we need to have people present at the site
ready to defend. There needs to be people at any

(19:15):
major gathering who are ready to defend, and I mean
be intervention capable. So that does mean armed and train.
I absolutely believe the training goes with it. But here's
the issue that the LDS Church has is they issued

(19:41):
a rule and their Handbook two went into effect the
first week of August of twenty nineteen, and it states this,
and listen to this quote carefully. Churches are dedicated for
the worship of God and as havens from the cares
and concerns of the world. With the exception of current

(20:02):
law enforcement officers, the carrying of lethal weapons on church
for property concealed or otherwise is prohibited. So here's what
I would ask that specific church. How many law enforcement
officers did you have in there? Since you've told your
people that the only ones who can protect you are

(20:25):
law enforcement? How many did you have? And I suspect
the answer is none?

Speaker 8 (20:35):
Carl?

Speaker 3 (20:35):
What about physical how can you fortify? Let's and I
don't disagree with what you've just said. I think that
you're right, But what about the buildings themselves? Is there
a way to fortify a church? A church a place
of worship that doesn't feel like a prison, that doesn't
feel overly fortified, but could be stronger or learn from
the lessons we saw. I mean, I don't know how
you stop a truck from driving through a door, but

(20:57):
is there something that could be done by architecture or
by the facility itself? It doesn't feel like overbearing.

Speaker 9 (21:05):
Certainly, there's all kinds of things you can do to
harden the facility, and that would include, if you've got
enough budget dollars to do it, the ability to look
at those areas that are most susceptible to a vehicle
drive in and set up some barriers. I know some

(21:30):
of the ministries that I helped do that back in
the days when I was a consultant, we even used
flower pots and planters and we would do perennial plants
in those. And I'm talking something that's you know, three
four or five hundred gallons of dirt in a cement

(21:52):
pot with flowers in it, or in the winter with
evergreen little you know, trees of some sort. But we
would change out the plant material regularly for the season.
And you know, those placed strategically in front of a

(22:14):
door will at least keep a vehicle from coming through
that particular place. You know, there's other things you can
do with landscaping and with architecture that will will curb
that kind of thing. But here's the thing. The only
thing that will stop a killer is somebody who has

(22:40):
intervention capable means of stopping an attack. And you know,
it's getting worse. There's no question we're seeing more of
this there. This was a mass murder. A mass murder
is four or more killed in a single incident that
had never happened that an American faith based organization until

(23:04):
September the fifteenth, nineteen sixty three, in Birmingham, Alabama, where
four little girls died because some cowards planet dynamite just
outside the girl's restroom in the sixteenth Street Baptist Church.
Never happened one hundred and eighty seven years since since
the Declaration of Independence, one hundred and eighty seven years

(23:27):
had never happened. This one yesterday was the nineteenth mass
murder in the sixty two years since then. And there's
a way to stop it. There's a way to keep
the death count from going as high as it did yesterday.
And listen, the only way to stop it is to

(23:50):
have somebody at the site ready to intervene.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Well, let me ask you this, Carl, I mean, how
did church leaders reconcile? Well, you know, a churches should
be a safe haven, an opportunity to go and worship
as you want to worship, and putting a gun in there,
it just kind of goes against the belief of a
lot of people. I mean, how do you recommend people
reconcile this? Because there are going to be people who say,

(24:16):
we don't want guns in our church.

Speaker 9 (24:20):
There are people who cannot be reasoned with, and I
agree with you, there's going to be those people. At
New Life Church, we were the first church that ever
had a intentional designated team stop a killer after he

(24:41):
had started. That was on December ninth, two thousand and seven,
when he went down in our hallway. He went down
with three firearms and fourteen hundred rounds of ammunition, after
having posted a suicide diatribe that said, Christian amer America,
this is your Columbine. We had people quit the church

(25:07):
because we had the audacity to be carrying firearms inside
the building. We'd saved how many lives, I don't know.
We had about seven hundreds still on campus that day.
He killed two and we stopped him, and we had
people quit the church because we have the audacity to

(25:32):
carry firearms in the building. You can't reason with those
kind of people. Nothing is going to uncloud their eyes
from gun is bad. That's the only language they know.
Gun is bad. All guns are bad, you know, That's
the only only thing they can think.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
Charles Chin joining us. He is an official with the
protecting America's churches. He's with a faith based security network.
We'll talk about more of this and get your reaction
to this coming up in the five o'clock hour in
the Rod and Gregg Show.

Speaker 3 (26:07):
I want to hear from our great listeners, smartest listening
audience and all the land number eight eight eight five
seven zero eight zero one zero number to call. What
do you think do our churches need to have more
security present? We have a policy a church used Christ
Laturday Saints has a policy about not again if you
have a concil carry permit, you're not supposed to bring
your consal your gun into the churches. Should that be revisited?

(26:31):
You know a lot of questions, but how do you
make it safe good?

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Do you need to?

Speaker 1 (26:35):
And we want to hear from you eight eight eight
five seven eight zero one zero on your cell phone
dial pound two fifty and say hey Rod or download
the iHeartRadio up and leaves a comment on our talkback line.
We'll get to your comments coming up.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
We've been ground zero, I think for a couple of
national issues as in the last few weeks, and this
was this certainly is one where this happened, albeit in Michigan,
but it being an LDS chapel, a stake center, which
many of us will see in our minds, what kind
of size building that might be for that building to
be burned basically to the ground for the person to
ram through during a sacrament meeting when everybody in the buildings,

(27:12):
most likely in one room or one area. It's concentrated
that way. It does beg the question of what net
what should you do in moments like that. I thought
our guests had some really good ideas of how to
harden your facilities, whether it you know, blocking with ballasts
or larger planters. There's there's some things you can do
that way. I would have never thought of of a

(27:34):
truck running through the wall or door of a building
before this, but what he brought with in the inside
that truck is what torched that building so tragically. So
something we need to start to think about.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
What do you do? I mean the you you're well
aware of the efforts over the years when it comes
to guns and churches. The LDS Church Handbook basically says
not allowed, not permit unless it's law enforcement.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
That's right now.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
The law that we have doesn't even allow churches to
post outside your buildings, right a sign saying not allowed.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
Yeah, that's correct. So we were when I was in
the legislature. Now, look if the church has changed that position,
and I'm I'm working off of old information. It is
my belief that the church has this policy that even
if you're a conciled carry permit holder. You asked for
you not to bring your your gun into the building.
But if that's changed, i'd love to I'd love to know.
But my my thing is, back when I was in

(28:26):
the legislature, we thought it was self defeating to put
an advertise on the doors, don't bring in your gun.
This is a gun free zone. This is this is
advertising for the bad guys. Okay, this is like saying
you are totally free if you want to bring a
gun in here, because all we have is this little
fancy sticker we put on the window to stop you.
You have, you have, you have the run of the place.

(28:47):
And we thought that was self defeating. So we didn't
want to see those. If that was anyone's policy, we
didn't want to. We thought that's a that's a dangerous
policy to brag about.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
Well, well, our phones are lit up. We knew they
would be, because we do need to discuss this and how
do we make our churches safer in this country. Today
I listed the number of attacks on churches around the
around the country. For crying out loud, let's get to uh,
let's get to some of your calls let's talk to
Dwayne in Salt Lake City and Dwayne, what do you
say on this? What are your thoughts on this?

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Dwayne?

Speaker 10 (29:20):
Well, I was listening to gun Talk radio maybe six
weeks eight weeks ago, and Clark a potion said that
the church did not renew its statement and they're supposed
to every so often about not bringing guns into church,
and so he said it was a tacit nod to.

Speaker 11 (29:46):
It's not prohibited. And you know, it's a while back
that he said that. I don't remember exactly, but maybe
you should contact him and get and see, get his
scoop on it, and contact the church.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
We will, Dune. As a matter of fact, we have
smart he's so smart. We have Clark Opposion on with
us right now to talk about this. Clark, welcome to
the show. Your thoughts on what has happened and where
we're headed? Do you think, Clark?

Speaker 12 (30:15):
Yeah, I think this is up and coming. It's an
attack on Christians, but so yeah, the church's stance has
been one just from a church standpoint. The guns are
their their statement's guns are not appropriate in church now,
way back when, and I'm talking eighteen years ago, twenty

(30:35):
years ago, maybe more, and I was an that was
a There was still lobbying. There was a program called
or they were trying to get a petition signed, a
referendum safe to learn, safe to worship. And these were
the woke, hand ringing bedwetters out there that figured they
didn't want the guns in schools, and so they added

(30:58):
the churches onto it because they fured if the church,
the LDST it's the Church of Jesus Christ, the Saints
got behind it on that end, then it would pass
for the schools too, because it was a two for one.
And so we went up and met with the very
very high church authorities in the church office building and

(31:19):
I remember telling them I was there up there with
Charles Hardy and NRA and we said, you know, you
don't want a government the state telling you as a
church what it can and can't do. It's a friendly
government now, but do we remember Missouri Anyway, Long story short,

(31:40):
I think we came up with because we didn't want
them to get behind this effort, because we knew it
would pass instantly if it did. So we came up
with the Okay, we're going to allow churches to if
they choose to take advantage of a law that would
create the one of two places in the state where

(32:03):
private property, a sign on private property would have the
weight of law. That's a home or a place of worship.
And then we negotiated it down. It's basically a parking ticket.
It's an infraction, and you don't lose your permit for it.
Is what either, It's still a crime, don't get me wrong,
but anyway, so that's that's how it has gone.

Speaker 8 (32:26):
Now.

Speaker 12 (32:26):
The previous caller was correct. As I was looking, I
realized that they and the church has to update that
every February, the end of February every year with the
Bureau of Crimlin entification on that kind of a notice.
They hadn't done that, and I notified BCI and I
said you need to take to get off the website.

(32:47):
And to their credit, thirty minutes later that church restriction
for the other's church was off the website, but in
three hours it was back on because somebody at BCI,
they told me, contacted the church and said, you know,
we had to take it off.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
So so so yeah, so as of this point, guns
are not allowed in churches and chapels.

Speaker 12 (33:11):
Right, They're not allowed as long as in any church
or any place of worship that posts a sign reasonably
likely to come to your attention. Uh, that sign has
the weight of life if it has no guns. Now,
the church has taken the opportunity not to post a sign,
which you know, for one reason, they don't want to

(33:33):
see that as you're walking into worship see a gun
with a line through it or something. Some churches have.
But the church has taken the opportunity to post a
notice in a newspaper or tell BCI at the end
of February. I remember that they are doing that.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
I remember, I remember that the legislation to allow for that.
All right, it's not advertised.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
Thanks for that information. It really does helpless. Should we
go back to the phones. Let's do that.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
Yes, let's go to Kyle, who's been patiently waiting in
boundful Kyle, Welcome to the Rod and Greg Show.

Speaker 5 (34:00):
Hey, hey, guys, my first comment has something to do
with that. Actually, So those that are opposed, if I'm
not sure they'd be willing to put a gun free
home sign on their door. Yeah, so if they ever,
you know what I mean. So, so, really, the ones
that are uncomfortable with it, it's not necessarily that they

(34:21):
don't want the protection. It's just that they're afraid that
the guns kill people, which they don't.

Speaker 12 (34:28):
People kill people.

Speaker 5 (34:29):
And so my my feeling is as far as like
solving this problem, it needs to be on private meaning,
meaning that the bishop needs to maybe call somebody. I mean,
we're not going to sustain them as the you know,
the sharp shirt shooter in the ward or anything like that,

(34:50):
you know what I mean, but that the bishop can say, yes,
we're protected and nobody needs to know, kind of like
air marshals type of thing. I was a little concerned
to have this contacted member of my bishopric. He calls
me back today at lunch, he says, Kyle, I don't
want to reply in a text, but I just want
to want to let you know that we are taking
care of his award. And I said, you know what,

(35:13):
that's all I needed to know. I am totally fine,
and we do not need to know anything.

Speaker 13 (35:18):
More than that.

Speaker 5 (35:19):
We don't need to know who it is, how they're
trained or whatever. If we have people that are carrying
that's that's what's going to give me comfort in a
situation like that.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
All right, Kyle, thank you. I wonder how much of
that is going on, Greg, I think I really do wonder.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yeah, I need to. I think it is something it goes.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
It works against security to just build, you know, advertise
it everywhere. So I would think that those things can
be and should be handled where you're not telling the
bad guys what you're doing.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
Kind of a wink in Linad type thing. Maybe. All right,
we got a lot of calls on this, and we'll
get to them as the Monday afternoon edition of the
Rod and Greg Show rolls along right here on Utah's
Talk Radio one oh five nine Okay NRS. Result of
what happened tragically in Michigan yesterday, four people are dead
when a man drove his truck right through the front door,

(36:06):
open fire, lit the building on fire. Four people are dead.
He was taken down by two very quick acting law
enforcement authorities. But it does raise questions again about church security. Now,
the LDS church policy is basically that guns are not allowed,
not permitted in their buildings. But this lesure you're a
member of law enforcement. But what about this personally?

Speaker 12 (36:30):
Greg?

Speaker 1 (36:30):
I don't think they'll change it, but I think it's
a discussion worth having.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
And I don't know how well, it's enforced. I mean,
I think it's like a don't don't tell situation.

Speaker 5 (36:39):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
Let's go to our callers. Let's go to Chad in
South Jordan. Chad, thank you for holding. Welcome to the
Rod and Greg Show.

Speaker 14 (36:47):
Thanks for rowden citizens Hues.

Speaker 8 (36:48):
I appreciate you having me on.

Speaker 14 (36:50):
I think that the last caller was correct. Every person,
every bishop should have a person or two. One person
with a handgun is not going to beat a guy
with a rifle. You need have more than just one. Also,
the reason they don't want citizens who have concealed weapons
permits to carry in a church because will they act?

Speaker 8 (37:09):
Do they have the.

Speaker 14 (37:10):
Training to act, the ability? And you have to have
the mindset to actually jump in and shoot back or
take someone else's life.

Speaker 8 (37:18):
A lot of people wouldn't.

Speaker 14 (37:19):
Do that, and so I think that's why the policy
is the way it is.

Speaker 8 (37:22):
But I'm a.

Speaker 14 (37:22):
Retired law enforcement officer thirty six years. I carry my
gun every week to church.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
Chad, what do you? I mean, what do you think
about this? I mean you you make a lot of sense.
I mean, even people who do have concealed carrie, would
they use it to take someone down. What do you think, Jed.

Speaker 14 (37:38):
In my law enforcement career thirty six years, I had
people like one of them specifically was in a bank
robbery where the guy said, I have my permit, I
had my gun. He had a gun pointed at the tailer.
I just couldn't pull it out and shoot him. So
if they don't have that mindset to act, they're not
going to. So I think that's why you have to
have the training on top of a permit or law

(38:00):
enforcement experience, military experience, whatever the case is, in order
to make that.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
You know, that's a very good point.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
And he's a veteran what he was talking about. Let's
go to Mike in South Jordan. Mike, thank you for
joining us on the Red Rod and Greg Show. What
do you think about this? Churches in security?

Speaker 2 (38:18):
What say you?

Speaker 15 (38:22):
This is more of a tongue in cheap cheak type deal.
But I don't believe that it's a good idea to
have a sign on the outside the building that says
no gun for you zone. But what about posting the
title of liberty and putting a deal that says if
you have bad intentions, enter at your own risk.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Yeah, that's beware of the dog at your own risk.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Aware of the dog. Yeah, a barking dog. All right,
back to the phones. Let's go to provo here from
Roger tonight on the Rod and Greg Show.

Speaker 7 (38:54):
Hi, Roger, Hi, Yes, I wanted to make a point
here about the Church Handbook, you know, when he was
reading the uh that paragraph about it says, you know,
armed policemen or official policemen, but it says no lethal weapon.
There are lots of non lethal alternatives now that reincapacitate people,

(39:17):
So I mean that is a possibility.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
I I like that, Roger. I think that.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
I think Sean Handy show. I think Sean Handy endorses
one of.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Those glens Burn launcher or whatever they call him. Yeah,
there are.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Some non lethal ones.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
In my early days that taking an accidental breath of
some tear gas, I mean from a distance too. Boy,
that stuff is pretty mighty and powerful.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
Well, that goes right along with one one of our
talkback comments about the same thing.

Speaker 16 (39:44):
I find it interesting that the people who enjoy the
freedoms of the First Amendment would deny the freedoms of
those people who enjoy the Second Amendment to protect the
people who are trying to enjoy the rights of the
First Amendment. Don't you find that odd?

Speaker 1 (40:04):
It makes a very good point, doesn't think Greg?

Speaker 3 (40:06):
Uh huh. I mean you've got to say it in
first freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and then you
get your second Amendment.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Right right to protect yourself.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
I don't know that one should supersede the other. I
think they kind of work together in tandem in a
powerful way.

Speaker 13 (40:18):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
Now we have that comment.

Speaker 17 (40:22):
I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ, the
Latter Day Science and from now and I'm going to
be carrying one of those pepperball guns with me at
church at all times.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
Yeah, I'm telling you that.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
The stand of the uh Church of Jesus Christ would
be that on that it's not lethal.

Speaker 3 (40:40):
So I mean there's not a there's not a state
in the country that would that can't does prohibit you
by law from carrying that. And I'm telling you, if
it's done right, I mean I haven't seen it, but
it is, it will disable someone without killing them in
a way. They can't see, they can't breathe, they can't
do anything just out.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
It incapacitates them for sure. All Right, we've got more
of your calls in your comments coming up on the
Monday afternoon edition of The Rod Greg Show and Talk
Radio one five nine.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
Kayn Arras and let's go to Kirston and Mapleton. Kirsten,
Welcome to the Rod and Gregg Show.

Speaker 18 (41:12):
Hi, thank you. When I was a youngster, my father
had PTSD, but back then they called it shell shock.
I'm seventy two years old. He came into our sacrament
meeting one afternoon or early evening and threatened our bishop
and the congregation and you know, mortified the whole family.

(41:37):
We were sitting there just you know, off, just oh,
didn't know what to do. And a man came from
the back of the congregation and he came up to
my dad and he opened his suit coat and he
was wearing one of those host holster and small guns
right under his armpit kind of ye and he just

(42:00):
showed his showed it to my dad, and then he
took my dad and walked him out. And it could
have been a really bad thing, but because there was
a gun there, everybody was okay, and my dad got
the help he needed. He ended up repenting and doing well,
and two years before he died, he went through the

(42:23):
temple with my mother, which was a miracle and got
sealed to my sister and I and I just say,
don't ever give up on anybody. Guns are probably not
the best in church, but in that case, it was
a good thing. And I think those burner phones are
burner all whatever. Y. I think they're a good idea,

(42:47):
and they ought to have them on planes and schools
and everybody who can afford one should have one, and
you never know, you just never know.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, thank you for sharing that story here. So what
a story that was. But a lot of people are talking.
Maybe that's one way to approach it. They aren't illegal, no,
although we.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Have great listeners, smart listeners.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
One listener said, I don't know if I had one
of one of these paintball guns and a gunfight mine,
it seems like the odds are against you. So a
little cynism from someone who a listener who might know.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Yeah, yeah, if you're just joining us, we're talking about
guns and churches, this result of the tragic story coming
out of Michigan yesterday. Back to the phones we go.
Let's go to Randy in Pleasant Grove. Randy, how are you?
Thanks so much for joining.

Speaker 19 (43:33):
Us doing will thank you for the show and the
important discussion. I'm going to say this with deep respect,
full respect. Those highest step church leaders who make the
decision on this are blessed to have armed guards every
time they go out into public. They have men with

(43:54):
lethal weapons, guns that can shoot and kill to protect
their lives. Seems a little contradictory or unfair to say
that members of the church don't have that same right
to protect their life or to have someone there with
a gun who can protect their life when they themselves

(44:16):
enjoy that every time they go out in public.

Speaker 3 (44:20):
I thank you for the observation. I not that one. Yes,
I leaders of the church, hire leaders of apostles and
the prophet and the first presiency they do have. They
have a very a very good security detail, and Temple
Square is well protected as well. So there's there. They
take security very very seriously are the church does. So

(44:42):
that's an interesting observation. Let's go to Rob and Sandy. Rob,
thank you for holding Welcome to the Rod and Greg Show.

Speaker 8 (44:50):
Well, I just got to ask you, guys, what was
the last time you heard about a police station getting
shot up?

Speaker 3 (44:58):
Yeah? I can't recall. I can remember one getting burned
down during the George Floyd Rise.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
But no one's going in there.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Abandoned.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
But everybody's walking into a police station.

Speaker 8 (45:09):
We have heard that, Rob, I mean, how many people
gotta die? Are only going on like this revolution of
common sense? I mean, it's just that I don't understand
where this argument comes from anymore. Anyway, Thanks for.

Speaker 20 (45:24):
The call, guys.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
Thanks Rob. You know, look in times change. I mean
that's a long standing position, but I think that I
think there's going to have to be some addressing and
security if if things are going to continue to get
more violent, which it seems like we're in that phase
or the trajectory, maybe there's some decisions that have to
be made going forward. Do we have time for another customer,
Let's go. Let's go to Alex uh in Saratoga Springs. Alex,

(45:48):
Welcome to the Rod and Greg Show.

Speaker 21 (45:51):
Hi, thanks for having me on.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
Thank you.

Speaker 8 (45:54):
Uh.

Speaker 21 (45:55):
I would say that, you know, being one that believes
that our country was divinely inspired, and more specifically that
our constitution was divinely inspired, I don't think that our
our God would decry weapons in church after inspiring freedom
to self preservation in our constitution. And I think that

(46:20):
if they really want to take it seriously, make it
a calling in the church and require some sort of
formal training as part of that calling. There are other
callings that require similar activities to be done, you know,
specialized trainings. Make it a very specialized calling for you know,
active or retired law enforcement or others who have gone

(46:40):
through some sort of a professional course, and put them
in charge of physical security in each of the churches.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
That that's an idea that's been kicked around, Greg. There
are some people are saying there.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
My hunch is that because it's not one that's really
I don't hear anyone talking about it. I go back
to the don't ask, don't tell. I just think there's
probably chances are many members that are of the LDS
church that are I can still carry permit holders, that
do know how to use a firearm and may probably
already be carrying in a concealed way at church, and

(47:14):
there's just not a lot of discussion and a lot
of you know, there's no rule, no one's putting you
on the spot asking you, so you know, it might
be safer out there than we give credit.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
All Right, more of your calls and comments coming up
after this break right here on the Rod and Greg
Show and talk radio one oh five nine.

Speaker 5 (47:30):
K n R S.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
I'm citizen Greg Hughes and.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
I'm Rod urccent. We're getting your calls right now on
guns in churches eight eight eight five seven eight zero
one zero on your cell phone dial Pound two fifteen,
say hey Rod, or leave us a message on our
tuckback line. Let's go back to the phones and Salt
Lake City. We're talking with Eric tonight. Eric, how are you?
Thanks so much for.

Speaker 9 (47:49):
Joining us, Hey, guys, I'm good.

Speaker 8 (47:53):
Two quick points.

Speaker 13 (47:54):
The first one is that the handbook actually says that
if somebody were to be carrying a firearm, that the
first step would be to ask them to leave, and
that if they don't leave, then you would, you know,
go for the citations. But as long as they are
asked to leave first and they do leave, then no
citation should be should be issued.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Okay.

Speaker 13 (48:14):
So the second, the second thing is the law I believe,
and I think Clark said this earlier, that it has
to be posted. You have to know that you can't
carry in that building. And I don't know about you, guys,
but I've never once seen a sign on an LDS
chapel certainly not the one I attend that says firearms prohibited.

(48:34):
So how could we possibly know that that building prohibits
firearms when it's not posted anywhere.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
Eric is a good point, and I will tell you
that I remember being in the legislature when we dealt
with this. We allowed for a formal or a public
posting that would be made. But to your point, without
it being posted on the on the and the entrance
or anything like that, it wouldn't be reasonable to maybe
understand all the rules that you're getting in. And I
think maybe that's why it's not enforced on a first offense,

(49:04):
if someone were to discover that you had a firearm
on the premise, I think it just lowers the temperature.
I think it's it's it's there. But I've always been
concerned about the places that they were a gun free zone.
I think the bad guys love those signs. I think
that is the worst thing you could ever say to
I think it, yeah, And I think if your big
gun with a big circle and sting across it, you

(49:25):
think that there's some guy rdy to rob the place,
and they get to the door and went, oh, get look,
you're not a lot of guns in here. I guess
I gotta go. All right, well so close. I was
just about to rob the place. But they don't let
my gun in here. They tell the wrong people there's
no gun. Okay, let's go to Seawan and provo. Let's
go to Sean and Seawan. Welcome to the Rod and
Greg show.

Speaker 15 (49:46):
Thank you, pleasure to be calling again.

Speaker 9 (49:48):
Appreciate it, thanks for coming.

Speaker 14 (49:49):
So thank you.

Speaker 22 (49:52):
Someone related to the previous caller, as I understand, if
the statue requires one that it's documented policy, but two
that a periodic announcement is made so either in the
program or in a generally distributed email or pamphlet once
a year. So it doesn't necessarily have to be a
sign at the door, but it does have to become
a knowledge because it's distributed to the general population on

(50:14):
an annual basis. And we all know that part doesn't happen.
The way I've always interpreted is that the church is
setting it up so that you wouldn't face criminal prosecution
for violating the policy or the statute, but the church
will still be shielded from a liability point of view,
where they could say, yes, we can trespass you, and yes,
we did not say that you were allowed to do this,

(50:35):
so the liability carries with the person who violated the policy.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
Yeah, you know what, that sounds as reasonable as anything
I've heard, and I think, but I do know that
the Clark Kaposha mentioned this as well. One of the
places that if you want to see if a place
allows it or not, is that our Bureau of BC. Yeah,
they they have a list and it's on that list.

Speaker 8 (50:56):
Ye.

Speaker 9 (50:57):
All right.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
We've got a lot more to get to coming up
in our dumb three of the Roddy Greg Show on
this Monday afternoon right here on Utah's Talk radio one
oh five. Guy, can I stay with us? She need

(51:17):
to mention a big event up at Utah State tomorrow
evening the Turning Point USA event. Charlie Kirk, of course,
was down at UVU back on September tenth, was planning,
of course, to be a Utah State tomorrow and he
was assassinated. But the event will continue. Quite a lineup
scheduled tomorrow with Senator Mike Lee, the governor will be

(51:39):
there and you'll be there.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
You know this is going to join the first show
but from up in Logan, I'll coverning that event.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
I'll be joining remotely, but I'm going to be on
campus tomorrow. I thought it was so important for them.
This was already this this September thirtieth was always was
always on the marn it was on the calendar, but
they were returning to Utah undaunted with you know. And
I think that's important to continue the campus tours, but
particularly to come back to Utah. And I think that

(52:05):
they've had to move the venue to their basketball arena
because of the incredible demand and interest by students and
I and I'm glad to hear that. I'm glad to
hear that people are really looking to be involved. And
so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna just try
to get a bit of that pulse from students, what
they're thinking, how they're feeling, why they're going to the
event tomorrow. And as you mentioned, we'll have Senator Lee,

(52:27):
they'll be speaking, and even Jason Chased will be there.
And so we'll see who I can get in front of.
We'll see roaming reporter, citizen Hughes on the scene, We'll
see what happens.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Assignment. Man, don't screw it up. I know a lot
of pressure. Don't a lot of pressure. Don't screw it up?
All right, try it'll be interesting to see, Greg. I
think it was Virginia or Virginia Tech. I'm not sure where.
There was an event t a tp USA event last
week and there were protesters on the other side of
the street. I wonder if Aniel will show up at
up in Logan tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
I'm sure there'll probably be some miserables that a complain that.
I think that the numbers will be very lopsided.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
That's true, all right. I want you to be startled
by this. Are you ready for this? Because it will
shatter you. Polls show Americans don't trust Democrats on crime
in the economy. Shocking, isn't it?

Speaker 2 (53:17):
This is my shocked face.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Not well, let's find out why in some of the
reasons behind that. Joining us on our Newsmaker line this
hour is Nicole Russell, a columnist at USA Today. Always
great to have Nicole back on the show. Nicole, Welcome
to the Rod and Greg Show.

Speaker 20 (53:33):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
I tell you what, Nicole is such alarming information that
Americans don't trust the Democrats on crime in the economy,
how shocking.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
I know, right, So why is that the case?

Speaker 3 (53:47):
I mean, I mean, I think, I know, I think,
what is there anything that you saw in the polls,
the cross tabs that give maybe one issue that's bigger
than the rest.

Speaker 20 (53:58):
Sure, yeah, I mean I agree with you. I think
it seems obvious. But when you look into the data,
you look at the polls, it really does kind of
confirm what a lot of Republicans already know, and that
Trump really wins on big issues that Americans have cared

(54:19):
about for years. When Trump was running, it was clear
that Americans really cared about the economy, about immigration, and
about crime. Those are three of the top issues. And
so Trump has handled those issues not perfectly, of course,
but he has really boosted the economy in multiple ways.

(54:40):
The economy is doing really well, despite you know, some
bumps along the way. He's completely cracked down on the border,
and he's handled crime in his own way, you know,
with cities like Washington, d seeds, sending in the National Guard.
And so he's just winning on these big issues. And

(55:02):
that has translated to Americans looking at Trump and saying,
you know, they trust him a lot more than they
trust democrats.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
You know, Nicole, it just seems so obvious that Americans
want safe streets and they want a good economy. Why
can't Democrats realize that? I mean, what don't they see
that Donald Trump has seen?

Speaker 20 (55:24):
I mean I've been thinking about this for the last year,
ever since he won. I mean, it just it doesnt
seem so obvious. And I don't mean to sound simplistic,
but every time I cover this issue, every time there's
new data showing how happy Americans are with how things
are actually going. I think that it comes down to

(55:45):
a couple of things. The first thing is that I
think the Democratic Party overall does not have any leadership.
I mentioned this in my column, but they really don't
have any rising stars. The stars they did have Mala Harris,
she did not do well the stars that they you
know what I mean. I mean, her book, her memoir

(56:06):
really shows just she did worse than we thought. Things
were more of a mess than we thought. So if
you look at any other rising stars, let's say Governor
Gavin Newsom, he has single handedly destroyed the state of California.
You know, people are leaving in droves, Taxes are high,
regulations are awful for businesses. So Democrats just they don't

(56:31):
really have you know, even one person, let alone you know,
a handful of stars to kind of show them the way.
And then I think the the other issue is just
that they hate Trump so much that when Trump is
doing well on something, they just reflexively decide they're not

(56:53):
gonna They're not going to go that direction. So Trump
says he wants to solve crime, and instead of going along,
they say, like, oh what what crime? There's no problem
with crime. It just makes no sense.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
So you've kind of touched on it. But my question
was you're not seeing the pivot. There's usually a big
pivot when a party's going the wrong way and they
see that they're on the wrong side of an issue,
you'll see a pivot. They'll just miraculously see the light
of day. You're not seeing that. Is that because they're
base and by base, I mean they're the more radical
or more extreme Democrat wing of the party does not

(57:29):
have a problem with crime. They don't have a problem
with the lawlessness. They don't there's a there's a segment
of them that have more sympathy for the criminal than
the victim. Is would that be why you're not seeing
a leaders show up in the or or just see
the party pivot at all.

Speaker 20 (57:44):
Yeah, I do think that has to be it. I
agree with you there, you would you would think by now,
and they're struggling so much in the polls, they're struggling
so much when it comes to voter registration. The Democratic
Party is not gaining in any battleground states, and so
you would think they would pivot, but they're not. They
just seem to be going further in the opposite direction.

(58:07):
You see this with the New York City mayor race
and the popularity of Mamdani, who is just a straight
up socialist. I think that if they do care about
issues like crimes, they certainly don't want to solve them
in the way that a conservative would want to solve them.
So like when you take, for example, the New York

(58:30):
mayor race, anyone who lives in New York would say that, yeah,
it's very expensive to live there. Affordability is certainly an issue,
But the way that a conservative would go about trying
to solve that is very different from the way that
a far less progressive or a socialist would solve that.
So I think that's kind of why you're seeing this divide,

(58:53):
you know, grow larger and larger, and why do they
just never pivot back to any kind of common sense.

Speaker 14 (58:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Back in Nate, there was a freshman senator from the
state of Illinois named Barack Obama. He had a nice
creatiness pants and was a good orator. Do you see
anybody in the Democratic Party right now who could emerge
from out of nowhere the way Obama did?

Speaker 20 (59:17):
That's a good question. I love the way he framed Obama.
Obama had some great skills. Occasionally I find myself still
agreeing with him. I don't I normally would have said
Gavin Newsom before the last six months, Yeah, I think
I've posted it on Twitter. He has a charisma, he

(59:38):
has an appeal to him. I normally would have said
he's definitely someone to watch for. But the last few
months have shown me as his legislative body continues to
support far left policies that are really destructive to California,
I don't think he will appeal to even moderate Americans.

(01:00:02):
You know, I think I think he's got his base
there in California, and you see him kind of moving
to the middle. I think you can see that, Like
with this podcast, you know you mentioned Charlie Kirk earlier
and he had him on, but I don't I don't
think he's ever gonna appeal to more Americans. And so
to answer your question in a very long way, no,

(01:00:23):
I really, I really don't see an Obama coming up
right now. Maybe I'm blind. Maybe there is someone. I
hope it's not Mom, Donny.

Speaker 9 (01:00:31):
Yeah, I hope that's not the case.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
We're with you on that one.

Speaker 5 (01:00:34):
You don't any one.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Yeah, we're with you on that one, Nicole. And Nicole
has always great to have you on the show. We
know you're a busy person. We appreciate a few minutes
of your time.

Speaker 20 (01:00:42):
Thank you, Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Thank you on our Newsmaker line. That's Nicole Russell, a
columnist with USA Today. More coming up the Rod and
Greg Show with you on Talk Radio one oh five nine.
Kayn Ters, I don't get this, Greg, but you have
got teachers who we entrust with our children, who are
so the death of Charlie Kirk, and you read solid
comments and we'll talk about that at the bottom of

(01:01:05):
the hour. Some of the most disgusting things I've ever seen, and.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
These are in public forms.

Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
It isn't like you overheard them at the Denny's restaurant,
in the in the stall next door, at the booth
next next to them.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
These are things they want publicly stated.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
They they're putting it out there publicly that they're happy
that a man was murdered, and they're teaching our kids.
They're near our kids, and they think murder is always
something to celebrate.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
We'll talk about that at the bottom of the hour.
Right now, there is a new development tonight in that
tragic shooting at a church of Jesus Christ of Latter
day Saints Church yesterday in Michigan. The bishop of that ward,
his name is Jeffrey Schab, has now spoken about how
people are dealing with this. Listen to what he had
to say.

Speaker 17 (01:01:47):
I know the people around the world are praying for
our ward and our families, and I am so grateful
for that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
It is.

Speaker 19 (01:01:59):
The most.

Speaker 17 (01:02:01):
Significant time in my life where I have felt the
love and prayer of other people. It's been very inspiring
the amount of contact we've had with friends not of
our faith. As I returned home late last night, we
had dozens of notes and packages and meals and food

(01:02:24):
and treats waiting for us. Members of football teams, baseball teams,
basketball teams, music had reached out to make sure that
our family was okay.

Speaker 15 (01:02:37):
It was.

Speaker 17 (01:02:41):
Very humbling to see how much good there is in
the world today, and that above all, we are all
children of the same Father in heaven and we love
each other. As you might expect. Our members are quite
shaken in spirit and embody, and it hurts. I am

(01:03:08):
extremely grateful for a loving, heavenly Father and his son,
Jesus Christ. I know that they are aware of the
challenges that we are experiencing, and I know that through
our savior of Jesus Christ, we can find joy again.

(01:03:31):
I know that with his help there can be healing,
and I know as we focus on him, we can
have joy.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
I'll tell you what, Greg, As a result of what
happened at the Catholic school they're in Minneapolis, the attack
on Charlie Kirk, this attack on a LDS chapel in Michigan,
I get a sense that Christians around the world are
starting to come together and they're being very bold in
expressing their faith in God and Jesus Christ. And that

(01:04:00):
is exactly well. I think what Charlie Kirk encouraged us
all to do. Don't be confrontational, but don't be afraid
to be bold.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
As I was listening to that bishop from that that
ward where this happened, I did think of the memorial
with Charlie Kirk's where we had our highest, our president,
his cabinet members who were invoking the Savior and and
and and talking about their Christian faith and you just

(01:04:28):
you haven't heard it before. And I honestly think it's
always been America's secret weapon that have such a strong
point faith and to be a faithful people. Uh, and
that's always been our strength. But you feel like you
live in the secular world to see this emergence. And
you heard it in the bishop's his comments just now,
but you heard it in the Charlie Kirk memorial. I

(01:04:48):
think that's why evil will push and that's why I
think they'll try to quiet or chill people's feelings of
turning to the Lord in times that we're in. But
I do think that that there is something about people
to the Lord more and being more prayerful. And this
has come from me. I mean, if I'm saying this,
it must be getting through. Because I'm a Neanderthal. I've
been tracking my knuckles forever. But I tell you, if

(01:05:10):
I'm saying this is something's getting something's getting through to people, Well, what.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
I really like is be bold. You have being confrontational,
you have to be argumentative, but you can't express your
faith in Jesus Christ and in Heavenly Father and the
principles that you believe in. There's nothing wrong with that.
We've been too shy because you just pointed out we've
lived in this secular world. The heck with it. It's

(01:05:34):
time to just say we're done with this. We are
going to speak what we feel in our heart, what
we feel in our mind.

Speaker 3 (01:05:40):
You know I don't I wouldn't wish upon and I
don't want anything that's happened in our schools, the Catholic
school shooting, the murder, the terrible assassination of Charlie Kirk,
what happened at this chapel, LDS Chapel, Michigan. I would
never want any of these things to happen. But it
you could knock me over with a feather that the
response of this nation has been to come together and

(01:06:01):
to pray together, and to respond to that not in
a negative way and not in a violent way or
a way that you would be further away from your
from a spiritual you know, revival of this country, but
closer to a spiritual revival happening. I mean in twenty
twenty five, I just didn't see it coming, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
And the only thing I hope it continues. I hope
after a few months it doesn't fade away and we
get back to in our regular life. The strength is
going to be in seeing that continue. And I think
what you'll see tomorrow night up in Logan with a
TPUSA event and more of those events around the country.
I just hope and pray it continues and not be
afraid to speak. All right, we've got a lot to

(01:06:40):
get to. It is the Roden Gregg Show on Utah's
Talk Radio one oh five nine. Okay, and I I
don't know what's happened, Greg, but I remember, and you
prabay the same way years ago growing up, that teachers
had a lot of respect in their communities. Yes, now
ours did because I was taught by nuns, So yeah,
they didn't have been.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
Their knuckles still have the callouses.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
They're kind of rough, yeah knuckles, but teachers used to,
you know, generate some respect you know, we entrusted teachers
with the minds of our children, you know, and they
were oddys. But I don't know what has happened all
of a sudden. There are many teachers, not all of them,
but a lot of teachers out there who feel they
need to make political statements or be activists. Who gave

(01:07:24):
them permission to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
It's scary, and it's scary that they're saying things on
public forms that that are just I don't I think
would be a nightmare to any parent, and they don't see.
In fact, they're big, reetorious, freedmum speech. It's like, no,
I think you celebrating murder. Yeah, I guess I'm grateful
for freedom of speech because now I know who's around
my kid. But it's a deal breaker. It should be

(01:07:47):
an absolute deal breaker to any reasonably thoughtful person, especially
a parent or grandparent.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
Forget it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
You don't want anyone who's found some moral justification for
cold blooded murder to be near your kids.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
Keep away.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
Yeah yeah, Well, joining us on our Newsmaker line to
talk more about that as our next guest, Erica Simsey,
director of Outreach for Parents Defending Education. Erica, thank you much.
So much for joining us tonight? What do you make
of these teachers who apparently delight in murder?

Speaker 23 (01:08:15):
So when I think about this, like through the lens
of a former teacher, which I am, and also as
a parent, I have found these public displays of delight
over his murder to be not only totally jarring, but
to me they reveal a complete lack of fitness for
the job. So again, we're not talking about people who

(01:08:38):
had a private conversation and you know, said terrible things,
or you know, said they were happy that this happened.
These are adults who have custodial care of other people's
children during the school day, who thought it was appropriate
and acceptable to go on public platforms and celebrate his

(01:08:59):
assess fascination. I find it completely disqualifying. I am stunned
at all of the people that are making excuses for
this or defending it. And I'm thankful that none of
my kids teachers did that, because I don't know how
I could send them back into a classroom after discovering

(01:09:20):
something like that about their teacher. As I said to
you know, many people over the past couple of weeks,
because I've been really, really upset by this particular topic.
We're not talking about the cashier at Wendy's or my mechanic,
or the guide that's a sceptive or the person who
delivers our packages, right, We're talking about the people that
spend the day with our kids in a school system

(01:09:41):
that is compulsory and that assigns schools based on residential address.
I mean, it's like a sickening thought that I would
that you'd be expected to again sort of like hand
your kids over to somebody who's moral compass is so
broken that they the immediate aftermath of a political assassination

(01:10:02):
that all of their students, if they're middle and high
school probably saw with their own eyes. It's just totally disqualifying.
And the other thing that's kind of strange to me
is lots of kids and students really liked Charlie. Some
just looked up to him because they were really interested

(01:10:23):
in his politics or the things that he said, or
they felt that he could say things that they can't
they feel like they can't say. But for others, he
was more of like a religious figure. So it wasn't
even about the politics, right Like to them, it was
more that he was like a faith leader that they
looked up to, and then for some it was just
like a cool guy that was normal and that they
related to that showed up on their social media feeds

(01:10:43):
all the time. So like many of their students felt
a connection to this person and to them, It's okay
to basically say, I'm super happy that this person that
you looked up to and that you followed, and that
you liked and you admired was murdered right in front
of your eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
You know, Erica, you listed some of the really disgusting
posts that educators have put in. I'm reading through those.
I mean, I don't want to even read these over
the ear. They're that disgusting. How can anybody go as
low as some of these people.

Speaker 23 (01:11:15):
Have, I mean, again, it is incredibly upsetting and disturbing.
I really was not you know. I decided to go
through because I felt that people weren't understanding what we
meant when we talked about these posts. So I went digging,
and I wanted to actually pull up the exact words,

(01:11:38):
and then I the list was much longer, by the
way than the one in the article, but then I
scaled it down.

Speaker 20 (01:11:43):
To a reasonable number.

Speaker 23 (01:11:45):
But I really wanted people to have a sense, because
what they kept saying to me was, you know, it's
okay if they disagree with him. You know, why can't
they say they disagree with him? Why can't they criticize
his views? And I'm saying, that's not what I'm talking about.
I mean, I don't think it's ideal to be criticizing
someone's used the hours after they were just murdered on
live television. But that's different to me, right, disagreeing with

(01:12:06):
him or even getting the facts wrong about him, which
is happening a lot. That's not the same as saying
that you're happy that he was killed.

Speaker 14 (01:12:15):
You know.

Speaker 23 (01:12:15):
Here's and so I really did try to limit it
to celebratory posts on public platforms about his murder.

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):
I want to talk about how this harms our students
K through twelve are high ed even broader, and that
is that because he had such a draw with young people,
because my own adult twenty somethings kids knew him and
liked him more than I was even aware. And I'm
hearing that everywhere. The fact that you cannot bring it

(01:12:44):
up because there cannot be a discussion about how we
oppose murder, period, how you cannot, for just speaking, be
killed in cold blood, and that would be I think
a very important discussion to happen in our schools with
our young people in America. But you can't even have
that because you're afraid that some teacher is going to
revel in it or try to excuse it, so it

(01:13:05):
goes unmentioned at best. I mean, I think that's a
loss for our kids to not talk about our First
Amendment rights and how dangerous it is to for murder
to be wrong. I mean, I didn't think murder would
ever become a political issue, but here we are. Do
you think that that there should be a constructive conversation
in our schools that are young people about what happened
to Charlie Kirk?

Speaker 23 (01:13:26):
Yeah, it's interesting that you say that. I obviously with
younger kids, not really, but certainly with older kids. I
think that I think there's a lot now that needs
to be talked about, right. I mean, one is, nobody
seems to have an understanding of the First Amendment, including.

Speaker 6 (01:13:41):
The teachers themselves.

Speaker 23 (01:13:42):
And by the way, like I acknowledged in the piece,
that there is a tension here. You know, I keep
hearing from people that they shouldn't be fired because it's
free speech. They can say what they want. And of
course my argument against that is like I would like
to I would love to have that fight out in
the open because I would like to see the unions
of the ACLU publicly defend these abhorrent statements made by educators.

(01:14:05):
And again, and even if even if I lose that fight,
I want to have it because I think people need
to understand sort of what these teachers' unions are willing
to defend in twenty twenty five and what the ACLU
is willing to defend in twenty twenty five. Because again
to my earlier point, right, I'm not talking about this random,
you know, Amazon driver who says something vile online. I'm

(01:14:28):
talking about our kids teachers who reveal their lack of
fitness for the job by behaving in this way. And
so even if I, even if I lose, I just
really think it's a conversation that we need to have.

Speaker 1 (01:14:41):
First question again because of how and.

Speaker 23 (01:14:42):
By the way, the last thing I was saying, and
I haven't anyone to answer me this.

Speaker 20 (01:14:46):
The people that are arguing with.

Speaker 23 (01:14:47):
Me about how they don't think they should be fired,
I keep saying, you, guys, if Rachel Maddow or Van
Jones or AOC or Jimmy Kimmel were shot exactly the
same circumstances, right having a conversation on a college campus.
I just find it hard to believe that all these
same people would not be demanding that teachers who delighted

(01:15:08):
in that be fired.

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
Thank you, Erica. That's Erica Senzi talking about bad teachers.
And now they're you know their reaction to this. Greg
you read as she listed some of the post from
teachers and like I, like I told her during the interview,
I can't even read them on the air.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
No disgusting and they're that bad. And then just a
great mental exercise to know just how over the top
this is. Is you you take someone who's been murdered
in cold blood and you think, would you want to
go to that person that was murdered? Would you want
to go to their children and just go get right
close to them and say, I'm so happy your parent
was murdered, I'm so happy. Would you go and explain

(01:15:56):
to that child of that person that was murdered how
excited I did happy whatever celebration. Would you would you
do that? The answer is clearly no. I think even
the people celebrating online would say no. But then it
then it stands to reason, then don't then whire you
near my kids? Why would you say it to any child?
Why would you say to any student? Why would you
say to any person? If it's so bad that you

(01:16:18):
wouldn't want the person's child to hear you say it,
or you wouldn't want to express it to them, then
you probably shouldn't be saying it at all. And that
that gap and and understanding that's going on right now.
It's a it's it's worse than Trump arrangement syndrome. It's
because it's broader than just Trump. They're just they're crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:16:36):
I wonder how many of these teachers have been fired.

Speaker 2 (01:16:39):
Not enough, I'm going to tell you.

Speaker 3 (01:16:40):
I mean no, You got that guy that got caught
as a superintendent who lied about everything is educat his
educational background, everything, and you had people protesting that he
should still be there even though he was a total fraud.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
Amazing. All right, more coming up on the rod In
Greg Show and Talk Radio one oh five nine.

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
Okay, An, i'mizen Greg Hughes and.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
I'm right arquet you know I was just watching TV
as you were talking, not that I wasn't paying any
attention to what you were saying. Do you know what
starts on October seventh? What NHL? We're going to have football,
college and pro. I have the NHL, We're going to
have the baseball playoffs, and not far behind his NBA.
All at the same time, I love this time of year.

Speaker 10 (01:17:21):
NB.

Speaker 8 (01:17:21):
What.

Speaker 3 (01:17:21):
I don't even know what NB. I don't even know
what that sport is. But I've been seeing the exhibition
games for hockey, but I never pay attention to exhibition
hockey games.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
I'm waiting for the start of the season, but.

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
I'm excited October seventh, and I think the what they
call it the mammoth. I think October ninth is when.

Speaker 3 (01:17:36):
They start fun fun. I was gonna say, we went
to a game, we need to do that again. Yeah, well,
don't you give me that look. I feel the I
don't feel the look.

Speaker 1 (01:17:46):
I see the look because I had to hide because
of your reaction to things.

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
I'm a fan. I'm sorry you don't have a pulse.
I'm sorry you think you're going to know you're awake
when you go to a sporting of them pounds of
the glass. You better believe it if I have a
seat close enough to that as an honor of my
life to pound that glasses. Those guys are getting checked
right into it. It was so much fun.

Speaker 1 (01:18:04):
How were you this weekend? During the Ryder Cup.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
I was on till I.

Speaker 3 (01:18:08):
Got yelled at by all Quiembe. Everyone was mad at
me because they thought I was I was overreacting to everything.
I wasn't overreacting. America was, yeah, no.

Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
It was.

Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
I I think that the bay I I'm not gonna
go okay, But why everybody thought I got too upset?

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
How about Roy mcelroyan, the way he was treated by.

Speaker 3 (01:18:29):
Fans, So I look, I don't think that that's good.

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
They don't.

Speaker 3 (01:18:33):
But this is what drives me crazy. Justin Thomas, he's
like the Marshall for the whole day. It's like, hey, Justin,
why don't you win your match? Why don't you just
play golf? Let the let the real Marshalls do their jobbing,
do crowd control. Quit trying to tell everybody to stop
chanting against those guys. That's not your job. Get into
your job and win a match. I was, And then

(01:18:53):
I'll tell you that Justin Rose. He is dead to
me now. That guy was such a jerk. And then
somehow people twisted that against poor Bryce into Shamba and
his caddie. They were the These guys were playing head
games with the Americans, and I wasn't buying it. Okay,
I saw what they were doing anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
Seeing now I'm all wound up.

Speaker 1 (01:19:09):
Yeah, okay, we're leaving now.

Speaker 3 (01:19:11):
So you don't say the Europeans didn't win one single
matchup final day. They tied, that's all they could get.
Half points still lost.

Speaker 1 (01:19:18):
Yeah, that does look for us tonight, head out the
shoulders back. May God bless you and your family and
this great country of hours. We'll be back tomorrow live
at four. Talk to you then,

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