Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
We're back on the Rob Devils Show, Ben Darnell Live
from the Bone and Joint Institute.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I guess, I guess.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
We're going on nine years. The Bone and Joint Institute
has been open. Right since it opened, We've been here
and now we're joined by one of the best specialists here.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I'm gonna screw his name up again, Doctor Zoe.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yes, doctor Okay, I usually call you doctor zoo animal.
That's the second accepted pronunciation. All right, doctor Zoe, spine surgeon.
And we were just talking about this, all right. I'm
gonna go back a little bit though, with Peyton Manning.
Yes for surgeries in eighteen months, What were they doing
(00:47):
in his neck? And why didn't he have like feeling
or control over his throwing arm.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yeah, so he likely had a discarnation, a cervical discarnation,
and then you know, without obviously and as images, we
wouldn't know exactly what his pathology was. It is my
understanding that he had a pinch nerve in his neck.
So the pinch nerve is where the spinal canal is
narrowed and if it can't affect someone's strength and can
(01:16):
cause numbness and tinkling, it's one of the most common
conditions that we treat in our office. So in Peyton
Manning's case, obviously he went through all the conservative treatment,
physical therapy, you know the hanging machine that you talked
about back in the days that you attraction machine, likely
in an injection, but I think he was probably having
some weakness in his arm. So he ended up having
(01:39):
what we call a posture foramnonomy. So it's a procedure
where you make this small, very small incision and you
can take off some of the bone spurs and her
needed this to relieve the pressure on that nerve. And
it's a motion preserving type of surgery, so it has
a relatively quick recovery period.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
So he had that done. Unfortunately, his symptoms did not
improve over the year.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
That's why he ultimately underwent a fusion surgery where he
made we made the surgeon made a small incision in
front of his neck and relieve the pressure that way.
So that's the the that's sort of the short version
of exactly what happened to him and could I mean
he was still able to go back and play in
the NFL. There's a few players in the NFL I
(02:26):
know there's a UCLA player who got drafted last year.
He had a fusion in his neck. He was a linebacker,
if I'm not mistaken, So there are. It's not an
uncommon scenario now where patients can have these small surgeries
and still go back to a successful playing career.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
How much does that affect your mobility when you have
a fused spine?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Yeah, so you know, it sounds scary, and then it's
one thing that you know, as a surgeon, we always
tried to assure the patient, you know, in a cervical spine,
if you have one level of fusion, which is what
he had, and that's what most people end up having,
is that the loss of motion is actually only about
realistically four to seven degrees per level, and most patients
(03:16):
with a one level fusion, in my experience, when they're
all said and done and healed, they really have no noticeable,
appreciable subjective loss of range of motion. The key is
that the more levels you fuse, you know, so if
you have a three to four level fusion, which some
patients really do need for severe nerve compression, then the
(03:37):
loss of mobility is a lot more appreciable. But in
his case, you know, I don't believe he actually, like
most patients of mine and one the one level fusion
that I don't think they ever complain about loss of mobility.
Some patients say that after the years, they know they've
had surgery, but they don't really actually realize they've had
the surgery.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Yeah, talking to doctor Steves.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Oh, he's a spine specialist here at the Bone Joint Institute.
All right, let's talk about a bulging disc and treatment
surgery and does sometimes that involve even the robotics and
helping do the operation.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yeah, so a bulging disc is a very common MRI
finding number one. So you know, most patients don't know
that if there's been studies done that if you're the
age above on average thirty five forty and above, if
you just put a one hundred patients into a MRI scanner,
a lot of them, half of them would have findings
(04:33):
of bulging disc. Right, So it's not a very specific
interesting right next to you there go I have, Yeah,
I've never had. But in patients who have symptoms and
they can have pain, they can have a pinch nerve,
they can have numbness and tingling that's going down the legs.
A few examples you know in a sports world Tiger Woods.
(04:56):
You know recently Matthew Stafford who had a vulging disk
Tiger Woods.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I mean, I'm sure you guys know he has.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Had extensive low back surgery since at seventh yes, direct, yeah, yeah,
so he I believe the chronicity of how his injury
came about was that he had a L five S one,
which the lowest disc in your back. He had a
herniated disc. He had one surgery to remove the herniation,
to unpinch the nerve, so to speak, and then ultimately
(05:26):
he ended up having a fusion at that level. So
anterior fusion, and the one of the downside and of
having a fusion is what we call in our business
adjacent level disease. So once you fuse something, you change
the biomechanics of how the spine behaves. All the pressure
gets redistributed to the levels adjacent or next to the
(05:49):
level that's fused. So he ended up breaking down having
a discarnation and degenerative disc at the L five S one,
the level above which is at L four and five.
I know I read recently he had a disc replacement
placed at AL four and L five, which is very
different than a fusion. Is that there's been there's been
(06:10):
studies to show that if you preserve the motion at
that level, it lessens the stress at the at the.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Next level above.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
So hopefully, you know, it can provide him with pain
relief but also a little bit longer longevity in terms
of his you know, quote unquote plain career or plane golf.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
So the bulging disc, let's go back to that.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
So let's just say fifty percent of people do MRIs
are going to be like, correct, Oh yeah, Rob, you
got a bulging disc and you're back, and we need
to do surgery. I mean, so now they've done studies
and you're you're looking at these and going, well, this
is actually becoming a common issue. What are some other
things other than surgery? Maybe if I'm forty five fifty,
(06:52):
I'm a golfer, but I'm in a little bit of pain,
but not enough to where I think I need surgery.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
What do I need to do? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I think conservative treatment when it comes to spine is
is honestly still the number one thing I tell my
patients to do physical therapy, which involves core strengthening work
on your mobility.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
If your golfer work on your swing.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Right, you can come right here motion lab. You can
get rehab right here at the bone joint Institute.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
And then you know, if you do have a lot
of pain, like for example, ssiatic pain from a pinch nerve,
there's studies to show that getting injections have and can
help relieve the pain and decrease the risk of you
needing surgery.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
So there are.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Alternative options in terms of outside of surgery to help
you to improve and have a better quality of life.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
And does Lebron have siatic nervous Yeah, that's why he's
sitting on the bench.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Yeah, and he'd well, good question.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Can we get this guy? Bet?
Speaker 3 (07:51):
But yeah, believe it or not, like people with bulging discs,
and you know, you guys, we said sitting, sitting is
actually a very uncomfortable position. Yeah, patient with degeneratives and
then you know that, Yeah, so sitting actually increases the
intro disco pressure basically puts more pressure on that disk
than any other position. So you know, Ben can probably
(08:13):
give us a more personal.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
So like standing actually is a lot more comfortable, so
he stands a.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Lot yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Yeah, better got in a little catcher squad from time
to time. Just get the knees lubricated. But yeah, the city,
the driving, like I've done a couple of drives to
Indiana and back. Oh yeah hours, right, that that will
be what puts me over. I'd rather play thirty six
holes of golf and swing as hard as I possibly
can and ruin my back than drive twelve hours because
(08:43):
of my back.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
So that's a very classic symptoms what we call disco
genetic pain, so pain emanating from the.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Disc itself, the bulging disc.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
So patients with that, with that issue oftentimes have a
really tough time sitting, and then they would hallmark is
that they can't really bend forward, so like you may
be the world's strongest person muscle wise, but you can't
really feel strong enough in your back to bend over
pick up like, you know, two gallons of milk, because
your back just does not feel secure enough to do that.
(09:14):
And sitting can be very difficult, and driving for a
long distance is very difficult. Sometimes that can trigger actually
a little bit of psiatic pain. And then usually patients
I tell I warmed patients.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
That if you're going to go for a long drive.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
If you have.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Issues in your back, you've got to plan your drive
so you can get out and move around.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
And that helps him to relieve the pain.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
That's why Matthew Stafford can still play because he's running
a run instead of sitting.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
I want to ask you what you brought up to
because like there's always every three months, I'm sure, especially
for back pain, there's a new contraption out there on
the market that you can spend thousands of dollars on
to relieve this back pain once and for all. And man,
did Matthew Stafford really spend some money on his new
contraption A mortal Chamber? Now you were describing this too.
(09:58):
We never saw this before. We brought it up on
the internet right before we came back from break. It
looks like a Shay's Lange Share. Yeah, like a Cha's Laune,
but all infrared and like very uh, what's the what's
the running sci fi movie that we like from the eighties?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Running Man? Running Man? It looked like something out of
Running Man.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Oh one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
And then you know, I, I uh, it interested me
because you know it's yeah, I've personally just came across this.
It's called a im mortal therapy. Again, like, I'm not
promoting this thing. I have never been inside. I just
simply looked it up.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
Now, well, let me give people the backstory as well.
We were worried that Matthew Stafford wasn't going to play
this season. He had lower back pain to start camp,
never even really played camp. I thought, all right, he's
just faking it because he doesn't want to do camp anymore.
He's one of these older guys that is a skipping camp.
But no, he has legit back is However, MVP caliber.
Right now, Rams are looking good, Stafford's looking good. So
(10:53):
whatever this thing is, it looks like it's worthing to.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Be a little psychological too. Well.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Having having a nakua to throw the BA to probably
helps him out a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Sure we didn't have it last week, but you are correct.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah yeah, but I mean, like that's some of that.
I it's it's one hundred and sixty thousand dollars that
I think they I think they got either they got
one for them or But like you know, if if
the listeners have anything interest, you can look it up.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
It is.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
What does it do so there's a few things supposedly.
Again I'm not a salesperson. I'm just you know, regurgitating
what I've read. It's a it's a red light therapy
plus elect low pulse, electromagnetic magnetic therapy and vibro acoustic therapy,
and you're hooked up onto a like a what do
(11:41):
you call it oxygen thing gives you molecular hydrogen.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I love this, all of this. Yeah, well I want
thirty minutes.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
I mean, like, if you just look at that picture
on your computer, I'm sure you will go find a
place that has that and just sit there.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
But it's very interesting.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I mean, the whole premise of that machine, I assume
is to you know, lower the inflammation, help the body
to recover. I mean, I think the technology is there's
some studies out there to support the efficacy of this.
But like, you know, just like anything, I'm a surgeon,
but we know that surgery is very only for limited individuals,
(12:20):
you know, very limited a few patients, and there are
patients who are looking for alternative to surgery that want
to prolong their life, prolong their career. I mean, like
we're probably at the infancy of some of these non
surgical techniques to help patients with neck and low back pain.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
I know they do dry needling here and things like that.
Are there any like ancient things that you've studied over
your medical career where you like acupuncture, dry needling, things
like that can actually relieve some pain.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yeah, I mean I think I think outside of that,
I mean, I don't know off the top of my
head in terms of things that can be helpful, but
I do think dry needling acupuncture can be very helpful.
I mean the premise of that is to help improve
local circulation and help to decrease the pain.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And I think you both swear by we've had the air.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
We love it really.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Oh wow, yeah, yeah, No, they do a great job
here and then they can not every therapist does dry leap,
but if you find a good one man like I've
had some patience swears by them. You know, they they
do fantastic in terms of getting relief, getting the pain relief.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
All right, this is the dumb question of the day
from yours truly, doctor Stephens, Joe, the authority around here
of all spinal orthopedics.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
What is the disc? What the hell are we talking about?
Slipping disc? Bulging disc. What actually is a disc in
your back?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Yeah, So the way the purpose of the disc is
to is basically the shock absorber you know for your back.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
So, but it's not like cartilage, right, It's not like
a bone.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
It's actually a it's sort of like a pillow in
between each vertebra that absorbs allows your body to cushion
the stress. Now, if you look at structurally, there is
basically two parts. One is called the anulus fibrosis, which
is sort of the tough outer ring.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Then there's a.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Nucleus propulsis, which is a more of like a gel
like structure that actually provides the support. So and there's
attaches to the vertebra at the one above and below
with a layer of cartilage, so that there's one disk
in between each vertebra. So, for example, in the lumbar spine,
there is lumbar number one, two, three, four five and sacrum,
(14:37):
so in between each one there's a supporting disc. And
then you know, the most common areas where patients have
problem is L four five and L five S one
And I tell patients part of the reason why is
that's the lowest part of your spine. Tints where all
the pressures go. And it's very similarly in your neck.
You know, you have seven vertebra so C five, six
(14:59):
and C six them. That's the most common areas patients
have neck issues, and that's where the most commonly worred
patients end up having surgery for those But like you know,
it's it's I I equate a disc to a car
shock absorber.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
So if you have a faulty.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Disc in your back, you know, just like give them
really bad shot absorb in your car. You go over
some bumps, it's not going to feel very good. But
like you know, unless you get to a point you
can't really drive a car. Then I tell patients doing
surgery for that disc, it's probably not not a great idea.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I know you got a patient upstairs.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
You're always great with the time stuff like that, so
we really appreciate you doctor.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
I just want to give a shout out to all
the guys at the Bone and Joint Institute and hard
for a hospital for their hard work. My wife had
to come to the er over the weekend and they
took great care for and.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Everything.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Okay, everything is good, everything's good, But I you know,
I like to thank the men and women who work
in the hospital.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Awesome for that, so do I
We're back on the Rob Devils Show, Ben Darnell Live
from the Bone and Joint Institute.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I guess, I guess.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
We're going on nine years. The Bone and Joint Institute
has been open. Right since it opened, We've been here
and now we're joined by one of the best specialists here.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I'm gonna screw his name up again, Doctor Zoe.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yes, doctor Okay, I usually call you doctor zoo animal.
That's the second accepted pronunciation. All right, doctor Zoe, spine surgeon.
And we were just talking about this, all right. I'm
gonna go back a little bit though, with Peyton Manning.
Yes for surgeries in eighteen months, What were they doing
(00:47):
in his neck? And why didn't he have like feeling
or control over his throwing arm.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yeah, so he likely had a discarnation, a cervical discarnation,
and then you know, without obviously and as images, we
wouldn't know exactly what his pathology was. It is my
understanding that he had a pinch nerve in his neck.
So the pinch nerve is where the spinal canal is
narrowed and if it can't affect someone's strength and can
(01:16):
cause numbness and tinkling, it's one of the most common
conditions that we treat in our office. So in Peyton
Manning's case, obviously he went through all the conservative treatment,
physical therapy, you know the hanging machine that you talked
about back in the days that you attraction machine, likely
in an injection, but I think he was probably having
some weakness in his arm. So he ended up having
(01:39):
what we call a posture foramnonomy. So it's a procedure
where you make this small, very small incision and you
can take off some of the bone spurs and her
needed this to relieve the pressure on that nerve. And
it's a motion preserving type of surgery, so it has
a relatively quick recovery period.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
So he had that done. Unfortunately, his symptoms did not
improve over the year.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
That's why he ultimately underwent a fusion surgery where he
made we made the surgeon made a small incision in
front of his neck and relieve the pressure that way.
So that's the the that's sort of the short version
of exactly what happened to him and could I mean
he was still able to go back and play in
the NFL. There's a few players in the NFL I
(02:26):
know there's a UCLA player who got drafted last year.
He had a fusion in his neck. He was a linebacker,
if I'm not mistaken, So there are. It's not an
uncommon scenario now where patients can have these small surgeries
and still go back to a successful playing career.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
How much does that affect your mobility when you have
a fused spine?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Yeah, so you know, it sounds scary, and then it's
one thing that you know, as a surgeon, we always
tried to assure the patient, you know, in a cervical spine,
if you have one level of fusion, which is what
he had, and that's what most people end up having,
is that the loss of motion is actually only about
realistically four to seven degrees per level, and most patients
(03:16):
with a one level fusion, in my experience, when they're
all said and done and healed, they really have no noticeable,
appreciable subjective loss of range of motion. The key is
that the more levels you fuse, you know, so if
you have a three to four level fusion, which some
patients really do need for severe nerve compression, then the
(03:37):
loss of mobility is a lot more appreciable. But in
his case, you know, I don't believe he actually, like
most patients of mine and one the one level fusion
that I don't think they ever complain about loss of mobility.
Some patients say that after the years, they know they've
had surgery, but they don't really actually realize they've had
the surgery.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Yeah, talking to doctor Steves.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Oh, he's a spine specialist here at the Bone Joint Institute.
All right, let's talk about a bulging disc and treatment
surgery and does sometimes that involve even the robotics and
helping do the operation.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yeah, so a bulging disc is a very common MRI
finding number one. So you know, most patients don't know
that if there's been studies done that if you're the
age above on average thirty five forty and above, if
you just put a one hundred patients into a MRI scanner,
a lot of them, half of them would have findings
(04:33):
of bulging disc. Right, So it's not a very specific
interesting right next to you there go I have, Yeah,
I've never had. But in patients who have symptoms and
they can have pain, they can have a pinch nerve,
they can have numbness and tingling that's going down the legs.
A few examples you know in a sports world Tiger Woods.
(04:56):
You know recently Matthew Stafford who had a vulging disk
Tiger Woods.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I mean, I'm sure you guys know he has.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Had extensive low back surgery since at seventh yes, direct, yeah, yeah,
so he I believe the chronicity of how his injury
came about was that he had a L five S one,
which the lowest disc in your back. He had a
herniated disc. He had one surgery to remove the herniation,
to unpinch the nerve, so to speak, and then ultimately
(05:26):
he ended up having a fusion at that level. So
anterior fusion, and the one of the downside and of
having a fusion is what we call in our business
adjacent level disease. So once you fuse something, you change
the biomechanics of how the spine behaves. All the pressure
gets redistributed to the levels adjacent or next to the
(05:49):
level that's fused. So he ended up breaking down having
a discarnation and degenerative disc at the L five S one,
the level above which is at L four and five.
I know I read recently he had a disc replacement
placed at AL four and L five, which is very
different than a fusion. Is that there's been there's been
(06:10):
studies to show that if you preserve the motion at
that level, it lessens the stress at the at the.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Next level above.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
So hopefully, you know, it can provide him with pain
relief but also a little bit longer longevity in terms
of his you know, quote unquote plain career or plane golf.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
So the bulging disc, let's go back to that.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
So let's just say fifty percent of people do MRIs
are going to be like, correct, Oh yeah, Rob, you
got a bulging disc and you're back, and we need
to do surgery. I mean, so now they've done studies
and you're you're looking at these and going, well, this
is actually becoming a common issue. What are some other
things other than surgery? Maybe if I'm forty five fifty,
(06:52):
I'm a golfer, but I'm in a little bit of pain,
but not enough to where I think I need surgery.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
What do I need to do? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I think conservative treatment when it comes to spine is
is honestly still the number one thing I tell my
patients to do physical therapy, which involves core strengthening work
on your mobility.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
If your golfer work on your swing.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Right, you can come right here motion lab. You can
get rehab right here at the bone joint Institute.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
And then you know, if you do have a lot
of pain, like for example, ssiatic pain from a pinch nerve,
there's studies to show that getting injections have and can
help relieve the pain and decrease the risk of you
needing surgery.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
So there are.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Alternative options in terms of outside of surgery to help
you to improve and have a better quality of life.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
And does Lebron have siatic nervous Yeah, that's why he's
sitting on the bench.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Yeah, and he'd well, good question.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Can we get this guy? Bet?
Speaker 3 (07:51):
But yeah, believe it or not, like people with bulging discs,
and you know, you guys, we said sitting, sitting is
actually a very uncomfortable position. Yeah, patient with degeneratives and
then you know that, Yeah, so sitting actually increases the
intro disco pressure basically puts more pressure on that disk
than any other position. So you know, Ben can probably
(08:13):
give us a more personal.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
So like standing actually is a lot more comfortable, so
he stands a.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Lot yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Yeah, better got in a little catcher squad from time
to time. Just get the knees lubricated. But yeah, the city,
the driving, like I've done a couple of drives to
Indiana and back. Oh yeah hours, right, that that will
be what puts me over. I'd rather play thirty six
holes of golf and swing as hard as I possibly
can and ruin my back than drive twelve hours because
(08:43):
of my back.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
So that's a very classic symptoms what we call disco
genetic pain, so pain emanating from the.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Disc itself, the bulging disc.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
So patients with that, with that issue oftentimes have a
really tough time sitting, and then they would hallmark is
that they can't really bend forward, so like you may
be the world's strongest person muscle wise, but you can't
really feel strong enough in your back to bend over
pick up like, you know, two gallons of milk, because
your back just does not feel secure enough to do that.
(09:14):
And sitting can be very difficult, and driving for a
long distance is very difficult. Sometimes that can trigger actually
a little bit of psiatic pain. And then usually patients
I tell I warmed patients.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
That if you're going to go for a long drive.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
If you have.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Issues in your back, you've got to plan your drive
so you can get out and move around.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
And that helps him to relieve the pain.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
That's why Matthew Stafford can still play because he's running
a run instead of sitting.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
I want to ask you what you brought up to
because like there's always every three months, I'm sure, especially
for back pain, there's a new contraption out there on
the market that you can spend thousands of dollars on
to relieve this back pain once and for all. And man,
did Matthew Stafford really spend some money on his new
contraption A mortal Chamber? Now you were describing this too.
(09:58):
We never saw this before. We brought it up on
the internet right before we came back from break. It
looks like a Shay's Lange Share. Yeah, like a Cha's Laune,
but all infrared and like very uh, what's the what's
the running sci fi movie that we like from the eighties?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Running Man? Running Man? It looked like something out of
Running Man.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Oh one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
And then you know, I, I uh, it interested me
because you know it's yeah, I've personally just came across this.
It's called a im mortal therapy. Again, like, I'm not
promoting this thing. I have never been inside. I just
simply looked it up.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
Now, well, let me give people the backstory as well.
We were worried that Matthew Stafford wasn't going to play
this season. He had lower back pain to start camp,
never even really played camp. I thought, all right, he's
just faking it because he doesn't want to do camp anymore.
He's one of these older guys that is a skipping camp.
But no, he has legit back is However, MVP caliber.
Right now, Rams are looking good, Stafford's looking good. So
(10:53):
whatever this thing is, it looks like it's worthing to.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Be a little psychological too. Well.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Having having a nakua to throw the BA to probably
helps him out a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Sure we didn't have it last week, but you are correct.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah yeah, but I mean, like that's some of that.
I it's it's one hundred and sixty thousand dollars that
I think they I think they got either they got
one for them or But like you know, if if
the listeners have anything interest, you can look it up.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
It is.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
What does it do so there's a few things supposedly.
Again I'm not a salesperson. I'm just you know, regurgitating
what I've read. It's a it's a red light therapy
plus elect low pulse, electromagnetic magnetic therapy and vibro acoustic therapy,
and you're hooked up onto a like a what do
(11:41):
you call it oxygen thing gives you molecular hydrogen.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I love this, all of this. Yeah, well I want
thirty minutes.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
I mean, like, if you just look at that picture
on your computer, I'm sure you will go find a
place that has that and just sit there.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
But it's very interesting.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I mean, the whole premise of that machine, I assume
is to you know, lower the inflammation, help the body
to recover. I mean, I think the technology is there's
some studies out there to support the efficacy of this.
But like, you know, just like anything, I'm a surgeon,
but we know that surgery is very only for limited individuals,
(12:20):
you know, very limited a few patients, and there are
patients who are looking for alternative to surgery that want
to prolong their life, prolong their career. I mean, like
we're probably at the infancy of some of these non
surgical techniques to help patients with neck and low back pain.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
I know they do dry needling here and things like that.
Are there any like ancient things that you've studied over
your medical career where you like acupuncture, dry needling, things
like that can actually relieve some pain.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yeah, I mean I think I think outside of that,
I mean, I don't know off the top of my
head in terms of things that can be helpful, but
I do think dry needling acupuncture can be very helpful.
I mean the premise of that is to help improve
local circulation and help to decrease the pain.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And I think you both swear by we've had the air.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
We love it really.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Oh wow, yeah, yeah, No, they do a great job
here and then they can not every therapist does dry leap,
but if you find a good one man like I've
had some patience swears by them. You know, they they
do fantastic in terms of getting relief, getting the pain relief.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
All right, this is the dumb question of the day
from yours truly, doctor Stephens, Joe, the authority around here
of all spinal orthopedics.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
What is the disc? What the hell are we talking about?
Slipping disc? Bulging disc. What actually is a disc in
your back?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Yeah, So the way the purpose of the disc is
to is basically the shock absorber you know for your back.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
So, but it's not like cartilage, right, It's not like
a bone.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
It's actually a it's sort of like a pillow in
between each vertebra that absorbs allows your body to cushion
the stress. Now, if you look at structurally, there is
basically two parts. One is called the anulus fibrosis, which
is sort of the tough outer ring.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Then there's a.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Nucleus propulsis, which is a more of like a gel
like structure that actually provides the support. So and there's
attaches to the vertebra at the one above and below
with a layer of cartilage, so that there's one disk
in between each vertebra. So, for example, in the lumbar spine,
there is lumbar number one, two, three, four five and sacrum,
(14:37):
so in between each one there's a supporting disc. And
then you know, the most common areas where patients have
problem is L four five and L five S one
And I tell patients part of the reason why is
that's the lowest part of your spine. Tints where all
the pressures go. And it's very similarly in your neck.
You know, you have seven vertebra so C five, six
(14:59):
and C six them. That's the most common areas patients
have neck issues, and that's where the most commonly worred
patients end up having surgery for those But like you know,
it's it's I I equate a disc to a car
shock absorber.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
So if you have a faulty.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Disc in your back, you know, just like give them
really bad shot absorb in your car. You go over
some bumps, it's not going to feel very good. But
like you know, unless you get to a point you
can't really drive a car. Then I tell patients doing
surgery for that disc, it's probably not not a great idea.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I know you got a patient upstairs.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
You're always great with the time stuff like that, so
we really appreciate you doctor.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
I just want to give a shout out to all
the guys at the Bone and Joint Institute and hard
for a hospital for their hard work. My wife had
to come to the er over the weekend and they
took great care for and.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Everything.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Okay, everything is good, everything's good, But I you know,
I like to thank the men and women who work
in the hospital.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Awesome for that, so do I
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