May 6, 2025 • 25 mins
Rafael Stone & Ime Udoka Discuss Rockets Heading Into Offseason
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Uh, this is for both of you guys. There's a
decent amount of lineup data that suggests that this team
has performed better without Jalen Green on the court this season.
How do you how much do you incorporate that kind
of data into your decision making process moving forward, be
it roster construction, coaching decisions, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Yeah, that's a really flawed question.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
So like we have, there's there's there's there's great data
that we have and we use. But and I can
one of my you may would know one of my
favorite things, and I tell them when when when when
when when we have a new when we have new
coaches joined my my one of my favorite things to
tell them is I can make data say whatever I
wanted to say. And uh, and so you know, I think,
(00:46):
you know, we we heavily use it, but but we're
very careful to try and really parse it out. And
I would say that I would say that that that
that some of our very best lineups include him and
so uh so so that that that piece by itself,
I just think that's just yeah, that's just that's just
(01:06):
not correct.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Knowing what you know, now, what would you have done differently?
Or what would your approach have been differently this season,
just knowing what you know now about how it played out,
about how it played out, Yeah, the season, how the
season played out, Like what would you have done differently
knowing what you know now coaching jam?
Speaker 5 (01:28):
You know, for me, I think it went pretty appropriately
to the way we wanted it to as far as
you know, like I said, that's being consistent and avoiding
losing streaks and growing guys at the right pace. And
and so you know, the injuries happened, and you you
get these different lineups out there, and obviously a man
starts to start when Jabari goes down for a while,
and and so yeah, I wouldn't say many things differently.
(01:53):
We have versatility and depth to kind of withstand everything,
and we showed that the like I said, the rough
stretch was for going down until guys kind of grew
up and grew into that role. And so I think
it just made us better going into the playoffs and
down the stretch of the season by some of the
things happening unintentionally made us a more well rounded team.
It's not his reliant. So yeah, you know, we still
(02:16):
have some games we felt we gave away and you
win fifty two and shut it down toward the end
of season. That's a good problem to have. But with
a little more whatever it is shooting finishing games and
game situations, I think you can get in the sixty
range and so played out decently. To me, obviously, the
end of season is a sour taste that we're gonna
feel us the rest of the offseason.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Express for both of y'all from each perspective.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
Cam express a couple of times, just like his unsureness
of what his role was on this team, did you
have any special conversations with him?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Do you have to do this offseason? What was his role?
Speaker 5 (02:52):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
What does he have to do to change his role? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (02:57):
I was a little cut off guard by that as well,
because we've had in depth conversations with Cam probably more
than anybody, and so you know, I'm pretty clear with
what is going to get you on the court and
what's going to help you sustain a role, and so yeah,
I'll leave it at that as far as that, but
plenty of conversations are very clear with what's needed, and
(03:18):
you know, opportunities are there and not always taking advantage
of or you know, other guys step up and play
a little better at times, and you're looking for that
consistency there. And so we'll we'll have our exit meetings.
We had about five or six yesterday, and we'll catch
the other guys before they leave town and reiterate a
lot of points, but a ton of potential there is
just the consistency is the main thing, and he knows that.
Speaker 6 (03:41):
And this is for the both of you.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
I'm how important is the theme of continuity in this
product that you've built over the last two years.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
And moving forward.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I mean, I think all things being equal, continuity is great,
you know, sometimes they're not equal, and like, like we
made a big addition to our team this year and
Steven Adams, like we obviously we acquired him at the
trade deadline last year, but he wasn't playing, and I
think I think we all believe that that was really
really helpful addition. And so I think continuity for continuity's
(04:14):
sake isn't isn't isn't what we're trying to achieve. But
I do think, like, especially given we have so many
young players that we think are internally improving, I think,
you know, I think it's easier, it's easier for players,
it's easier for people to improve and to feel good
in situations that they're comfortable in.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So continuity helps with that.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
And uh, I think from a coaching perspective, like you
don't you know, you're not You're not trying to bring
somebody in a up up to speed. And obviously there
are guys who are just so high IQ that they're
just it's all really quick.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
But but there's lots of effective players.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
It takes time, and so the more the more continuity
you have, the less you have to do some of that.
So again, all things being equal, new it he is great,
but you know, the goal ultimately is to build a
championship team.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And if we think.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
That there's a move or a series of moves that
make it more likely we will be that, then we
would ignore continuity and we'd do those moves.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
Yeah, I would say for me anyway, it's you know,
we talked about going into your two and the goals
and understood that everybody was gonna be much better in
the second year, so we kind of hit the ground
running as far as that to this point. On the
addition that Steven was there, and I think it really
was a big part of us jumping out the way
we did this year, you know. And so that continuity
(05:39):
is good, no doubt. But you've seen teams make a
lot of moves and they feel like they need to
get over the hump, and donscience is added or Butler's added,
and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But we always
felt comfortable about what we had here and that we
take this step this year.
Speaker 7 (05:55):
So for both of you, is there anything that you
learned about individual players or just the roster in total
by playing the Warriors seven straight games and just kind
of seeing the ways that they attacked you when you
had their full attention for two and a half weeks.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
You know, I don't.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I think we learned a lot about our I think
it's it's less what we learned and more it's a
learning opportunity. That's how I think about it, which is
like the grind of a series is different from the
regular season and the intensity like what like just this
is a compliment to emy that My favorite thing about
(06:33):
this team is I felt from the beginning of the
year to the end of the year, we were the
hardest playing team in basketball. And that's that's really a
testament to him and his staff and obviously to our
players as well. But but that'll get you over in
the regular season in a way, it won't get you
over in the playoffs because everybody plays hard in the playoffs,
(06:54):
and so getting our guys to to realize that, like
not getting them to realize that, how them having the
opportunity to feel what that's like. I just think it's
a tremendous learning opportunity, and some of it we picked
up on the fly. We for sure improved through the
course of those seven games, but I think the bulk
of that opportunity is to come where they get a
(07:16):
chance to reflect on it and incorporate it and work
through the summer and work through next year. So that's
that's more how I think about it.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
An experience for me is a big thing for our
young guys going through it for the first time, and
you know, how fast can we adapt to it and
next time we're in the playoffs, since it's hit the
ground running from game one, not you know, take a
step back, and I think we kind of found our footing,
you know, midway through the series, but let go some
opportunities early that I think with the with the series
(07:47):
under your belt, a hard fought series, you can kind
of reflect on and go back on those lessons that
you've learned, and so I think our guys will be
better for it, no doubt.
Speaker 8 (07:57):
In regards to them men. Just being in the gym
with him every day. How would you quantify his growth,
particularly the offensive end, and what's possible for him on
that end? Rupell, What was it like for you he
seeing the guy that you were really high on but
unto this rising star throughout the year.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
Yeah, I mean he's an extremely hard worker, a grinder
like all of our guys are. You never had a
complain about that of guys not putting in the work,
and so he views himself as one of the best,
if not the best, at what he's trying to be
and there's no real ceiling for him. He's going to
continue to ascend like that. But the understanding he catches
(08:34):
on very quickly, and once he does some things, he
applies it and kind of puts it in his memory.
Banking just his versatility, as you know, he's much different
We use in much different ways than what he did
his whole career, and he's adapted to all those things
very well, and so ultimate Soss army Knife. You put
him in any position one through five, he guards one
through five. He has played and gives us a ton
(08:56):
of luxury and versatility to have a guy like that.
But yes, guy's limit, no ceiling on what he wants
to be and the work he puts in.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Ha showed that.
Speaker 9 (09:06):
This is for both of you.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Guys.
Speaker 10 (09:08):
What did y'all like about the identity of the team
this year?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, I mean, I think.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
One one of the lessons I've learned in my current
role is that there there's a lot of there's a
lot of ways to win in the NBA, and there's
there's there's different organizations have been successful doing different things.
And one of the best ways to win in the
NBA is just getting obscenely lucky and lucking into player
(09:43):
X who elevates everyone around him, or something like that.
But when you're when you're trying to build something, I
guess the biggest lesson I've learned is that having a
clear direction that fits the organization's personality is really important.
And I guess for our organization that one hundred percent
(10:06):
starts with Tillman and then and then it's and then
it's me, and then it's our coach, and then it's
our players, and and it's but it's not it's not
like four people or fifteen people or whatever. It's really
there's like I don't know, one hundred of us or
(10:27):
ninety of us or something that interact on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
So taking that back to the team.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
And everything, what I would say is that like, there's
different ways you can win, and there's different ways you
can lose. You can you can win a game by
making every three pointer and playing horrific defense and never
getting a rebound. You can win a game never making
a three pointer and playing the world's best defense and rebounding.
I'm I'm my personality, just me. I'm way more comfortable
(10:58):
trying to win and version and two of that than
version one and and if I can, I personally, I'm okay.
If I feel like we left it all on the table,
I can. I can lose and be okay. I struggle.
I struggle if I if I feel like we're we're
soft or not or getting out worked. Going all the
(11:22):
way back to the first time we met and spent
time together, for me in Emay, that was that was
something I felt like we kind of bonded over and
it was for sure something I thought was gonna end
up being important to him, and obviously it has.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
It is important to him.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
And so the way this team kind of in year
two has taken that on is something I really like.
And I think we have an identity and I think
it fits Tillman's identity, and if it's mine and if
it's emails, and if it's our players, and I think
that's that's a good that's a good basis, a good
(12:00):
holding block from which we can build.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Did all.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
What do you like? I mean that it is a
lot of what he said, and that was from day one,
where the competitiveness and effort and you know, all those
things were there from day one, and especially for a
young team and a team that had lost a lot,
and so that's where you start with. And we've built
it from there. And so I think guys have gotten tougher,
(12:29):
and guys have pulled each other up, and you know,
all rubbed off on each other as far as that
edge and toughness, and you start with that and then
you get to the skills, you get to IQ, you
get to all the other areas where we need to
grow and continue to build and learn, but the foundation
is set and we knew get we know we give
ourselves a really good chance on a nightly basis because
of that. And so message was you you come in
(12:51):
with this effort and this competitiveness, you'll win three out
of four games.
Speaker 7 (12:54):
That was our goal.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
We said, you know, seventy five percent of your game
seventy seventy five percent is doing that all night basis.
And we've done that from day one. And so we
saw the competitiveness, scuffles, scuffles and scratch, you know, all
the things from last year. And I think we've only
increased that as guys have grown and will continue to
when they get more confident, more physically stronger and all
(13:16):
those things, and bodes well for us going forward. That
that's late and now we kind of work on everything else,
the skill the skill sets IQ and just continue to
grow as a group.
Speaker 6 (13:27):
Question for both of you, as you look back on
the series, what is your assessment of what Jalen did
in that series? How do you balance that with what
you saw over the course of a long season, and
perhaps what are the next steps for him to take
as a player To become the player that I'm sure
you would like him to become.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
You know, Jalen didn't have the series that he wanted
to have, but we didn't. But I think, you know,
it's it's a little bit of a double edged sword
in terms of trying to evaluate it, because they their
goal going into the series was to take him out,
and that was obvious, and and I think I think
(14:07):
they talked about it. I didn't actually listen to what
they said afterwards, but people told me what they said,
So like, who knows, I think they talked about it.
We're not a team built around any one player offensively,
whether it's Jalen or Albren or a man or Fred.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
And so.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
If your if your goal is to take out one
of our players, in theory, what should happen is that
our other players should just punish it. And he may
frequently talks to the guys about inviting double teams hit
the guy like and and you're the sacrificial lamb.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
And so you know, in some games we punished it.
In some games we.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Didn't, you know, and one of in one of the games,
we ended up with great spacing and we were able
to like punish it with him, that's maybe unsustainable, but
but yeah, I would just say that, like, uh, we
for all of our guys, like we want them to
learn and everything else, but it's not you know, one
playoff series doesn't define a player. But also I think
(15:10):
in particular with him and that, yeah, like if if
a team's going after you like that, they're going after
you like that, and then then it's it's a team
game for a reason. And I'm confident that if we
want to take any one player out, we can and
will on any team in the NBA. And so it's
just the repercussions of that that that impact the winning
(15:33):
or losing.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
That's how I think about it.
Speaker 5 (15:35):
And more of the same where he really improved as
far as that, you know, it's a compliment to him
that teams will go after and to that extent, and
he saw it throughout the season, had you know, some
practice at and we got better at it. But the
main thing is obviously getting the ball to the playmakers
behind it and not turning it over, and at times
(15:56):
he struggled with that early in the season and he's
really improved there. To Rafel's point, we made him pay
at times and then at times it worked in their
favor vice versa with them when we took carry out
at times and Peyton hurts us down the stretch, but
a lot of other guys miss white them shots and
we win those going away. And so the more practice
and confidence you have with that in him just you know,
(16:18):
being the decoy at times like I mentioned, and so
there are opportunities that you still will have with that.
And the more stops we can get, the more we
could play in transition to avoid those is good for
him and good for us. But you know, he went
through some growing pains, no doubt. I think physically getting
stronger to absorb contact on some of his drives when
he has the advantage, or finishing at the rim when
(16:40):
he does get the driving lane, all those things. There
are things we talked about with him going into the
offseason and able to use him off the ball a
little bit more. And you got to get a little
bit stronger as far as that, because they took him
out of some of those actions where they couldn't trap,
and so some areas for him to grow obviously, some
areas for us to use him a little bit better.
But when he does face those, we have enough talent
behind express see a really good passing big like Alpi
(17:02):
that should punish that every night.
Speaker 11 (17:06):
Tari and Jabari both missed some time with injuries this season,
but we're able to make an impact still. You may
how do you evaluate their development this season specifically? And Raphel,
how likely do you think it is that those two
sign extensions.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
Yeah, for me, obviously, Jabari going down, he came back
really good and adapted to the role we brought him
back in, which was coming off the bench, and so
you know, you slid them in and there, and we
were a different team but better in some ways. Obviously
the shooting wasn't there the starting unit, but his versatility
and am End's made that a seamless transition. I think
(17:43):
he was ultimate professional. Came back and handled it well
and even showed, you know how much we missed him
while he was gone. You know, he plugged a lot
of those gaps when he came back, whether it was
starting at or playing at the four, starting at the
or playing the three or the five at times, and
with a double big lineup, he was really good there.
Tari's different obviously, you know, it's like the continuity of
(18:03):
him playing every night but he had to be conscious
of that and getting him to the end of season
as well. And so there are some things with the
young guy that you want to see growth wise, and
I think the fact that he couldn't play a nightly
basis you know, that's that's a tough one for him,
especially as competitive as he is. And so you know
you didn't mention Fred as well, you know, being out
(18:24):
with the injuries and how that hurt us and affected us,
but how it helped the team overall. And so those
two continue to show growth, you know, I would say overall,
they have a lot of things to work on it
like like everybody, and they know that and that's what
this big off season is for.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
So sorry, I was gonna say, I know you said
you wanted me to comment on their free agency status,
which is.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Their extension eligible. We will talk.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I'm not going to comment on any of our negotiations,
but they're very important parts of what we do and
we have and they're they're just they're really really both solid,
solid guys like they're they're I love those guys. I
actually like it's probably already come across. But this team
(19:17):
as a whole, like the group of guys too that
you you know, to come in every day and.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Work with is is just great. It's just great.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
And yeah, I thought, I thought both Tari and Jabbari
in particular, really hard years with injuries and and just
growing up, growing pains of various sorts, and they just
they both handled it so well. I'm I'm yeah, I'm
very appreciative of them and their effort and and very
(19:48):
excited about where, you know, the direction I think they're
both headed.
Speaker 12 (19:54):
Uh, this question is for Raphael. You have an opportunity
to talk with Tilman a lot later on in see
you later on in the season and during the playoffs
and after the playoffs. I know he leads the basketball
stuff up to you, but what is his vision move
moving forward going into next season and how does he
currently see the roster constructed?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I mean, I think it's, you know, we're aligned.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
It's the visions, the visions, the one I've laid out
to you, which is we're you know, I don't know.
I think I like no one believed me, but I
think like four years ago, I was like, we're gonna
be really young, and I think I used words like excited.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I never used words like.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Winning like like, you know, we we you know, we
knew what we were in for, and he knew what
he was in for and and you know, and we're
we're not there, like the goals to build a championship
team and we clearly we're not a championship team this year.
So we're all we're all still in it. But but
he's completely bought in. Uh you know, I'll just speak
(20:52):
on his behalf, like I know this is his favorite
team he's ever had. Just again, kind of a lot
of it is what I just said, which is he
also has an opportunity to be around our guys day
in and day out, and they're good guys, and I
think he appreciates them not just for the players they are,
but for the people they are. And yeah, he's just
very bought in on this group and seeing and thinking
(21:14):
that this that this group can get us, can get
us to where we want to go.
Speaker 13 (21:20):
You're right, you did say excitement. We tried to get
you to give us a number and you wouldn't, So
I remember that. Imay, you've been around basketball a long time.
What do you do in terms of evaluating yourself and
your staff? Is that process to say where are we
what can we work on?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
What's that process for you?
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Yeah, I mean before the season starts, we do a
full season recap of obviously our coach was the treat
We get together and look at the previous season and
look at areas of growth improvement across the board. We
check the numbers and you see how we use guys,
how we develop you guys. Everybody has a different role
obviously with the coaching staff, but reflecting on myself and
(21:58):
looking at areas of growth, that's always a big thing.
And that obviously starts much before we get together for
coaches retreat and so yeah, it's always ways to improve.
And that's what that was a message to the team
yesterday and after the game was I have to come
back better. The staff does as well, and all of
you guys as well, and so it's not just physically
mentally all those things. Yeah, it's overall growth. It's not
(22:22):
pointing in fingers that we miss shots. It's did we
get the right shots? Did we use you guys the
right way? And you know, target areas to be better
at and or be number one in, and we hit
some of those this year. We've been really good at some,
but we can always be a lot better, and so
different ways to grow and learn and kind of lean
(22:43):
back on experiences. To your point, I've been seeing a
lot of things and been around for a long time,
and anything we can implement to make our team better
and things run more smoothly.
Speaker 8 (22:54):
You mentioned not being at a championship level.
Speaker 7 (22:57):
What do you believe is the first or what is
the first step you will will take to get to
that level?
Speaker 8 (23:02):
What do you what more do you feel like you
all need to get there?
Speaker 2 (23:05):
We're gonna work hard over the summer and everybody's gonna better.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Then we'll see where we're at. Like, that's that's the
one thing I know will happen. Yeah, the rest we'll see,
but but I know that will happen. And we have
the vast bulk of our rotational minutes are being played
by players that I believe in my soul will be
way better next year than they were this year because
that's the point of their career that they're at. So
(23:29):
I think we'll see what you know, we'll see what
that brings.
Speaker 9 (23:37):
All Right, that was the press conference, Boyd. There was
not a whole lot of we're gonna listen to phone
calls I mean they're going to but certainly from two
days after the defeat of the team, it was we
love our core, we love our nucleus, we love our
group of eight that were our rotation guys trust the process.
(24:00):
So it sounds like that's probably what they're gonna go with.
I'll stick with my gut feeling from earlier. There's no
earth shattering superstar move, but maybe a rotational player. So
maybe we should not get into a deep seated conversation
about the certain member of the Milwaukee Bugs or the
certain member of the Phoenix Suns.
Speaker 10 (24:17):
Probably not, or any members of the Phoenix Suns.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Let's say that happens.
Speaker 10 (24:21):
Let's say they re signed Steven Adams, they restructure Fred
van Vliet, and they keep their lottery pick. How you
feeling about next year?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
I'm feeling good.
Speaker 9 (24:32):
But the the hangover of Jalen, it's the hangover that
James Harden has Now is that James?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Is that going to be a.
Speaker 9 (24:40):
One year issue for Janlin in the playoffs or is
it for James Harden? At least he at least he'd
get your ten assists. But the curtain, not the curse,
but the the aura of James in important games.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
That hasn't changed. He's been on Link fifteen years.
Speaker 10 (24:55):
Yeah, And I mean it's just the I would say
that right now, the fan base, as far as their
support for Jalen Green is an all time low. And
then just feeling the way that this series went, I'm
feeling is it's probably as pessimistic as I have about
his career, about him his blossoming career.
Speaker 9 (25:14):
So he said, Rafel did, what is this team gonna
be like next year? And he said this, this, this
is They're all gonna be better. They're gonna work hard,
which they are gonna do. They've never been adverse to
working hard. I've seen him myself. Yes, But I think
there's one thing that has to change next year
Uh, this is for both of you guys. There's a
decent amount of lineup data that suggests that this team
has performed better without Jalen Green on the court this season.
How do you how much do you incorporate that kind
of data into your decision making process moving forward, be
it roster construction, coaching decisions, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Yeah, that's a really flawed question.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
So like we have, there's there's there's there's great data
that we have and we use. But and I can
one of my you may would know one of my
favorite things, and I tell them when when when when
when when we have a new when we have new
coaches joined my my one of my favorite things to
tell them is I can make data say whatever I
wanted to say. And uh, and so you know, I think,
(00:46):
you know, we we heavily use it, but but we're
very careful to try and really parse it out. And
I would say that I would say that that that
that some of our very best lineups include him and
so uh so so that that that piece by itself,
I just think that's just yeah, that's just that's just
(01:06):
not correct.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Knowing what you know, now, what would you have done differently?
Or what would your approach have been differently this season,
just knowing what you know now about how it played out,
about how it played out, Yeah, the season, how the
season played out, Like what would you have done differently
knowing what you know now coaching jam?
Speaker 5 (01:28):
You know, for me, I think it went pretty appropriately
to the way we wanted it to as far as
you know, like I said, that's being consistent and avoiding
losing streaks and growing guys at the right pace. And
and so you know, the injuries happened, and you you
get these different lineups out there, and obviously a man
starts to start when Jabari goes down for a while,
and and so yeah, I wouldn't say many things differently.
(01:53):
We have versatility and depth to kind of withstand everything,
and we showed that the like I said, the rough
stretch was for going down until guys kind of grew
up and grew into that role. And so I think
it just made us better going into the playoffs and
down the stretch of the season by some of the
things happening unintentionally made us a more well rounded team.
It's not his reliant. So yeah, you know, we still
(02:16):
have some games we felt we gave away and you
win fifty two and shut it down toward the end
of season. That's a good problem to have. But with
a little more whatever it is shooting finishing games and
game situations, I think you can get in the sixty
range and so played out decently. To me, obviously, the
end of season is a sour taste that we're gonna
feel us the rest of the offseason.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Express for both of y'all from each perspective.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
Cam express a couple of times, just like his unsureness
of what his role was on this team, did you
have any special conversations with him?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Do you have to do this offseason? What was his role?
Speaker 5 (02:52):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
What does he have to do to change his role? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (02:57):
I was a little cut off guard by that as well,
because we've had in depth conversations with Cam probably more
than anybody, and so you know, I'm pretty clear with
what is going to get you on the court and
what's going to help you sustain a role, and so yeah,
I'll leave it at that as far as that, but
plenty of conversations are very clear with what's needed, and
(03:18):
you know, opportunities are there and not always taking advantage
of or you know, other guys step up and play
a little better at times, and you're looking for that
consistency there. And so we'll we'll have our exit meetings.
We had about five or six yesterday, and we'll catch
the other guys before they leave town and reiterate a
lot of points, but a ton of potential there is
just the consistency is the main thing, and he knows that.
Speaker 6 (03:41):
And this is for the both of you.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
I'm how important is the theme of continuity in this
product that you've built over the last two years.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
And moving forward.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
I mean, I think all things being equal, continuity is great,
you know, sometimes they're not equal, and like, like we
made a big addition to our team this year and
Steven Adams, like we obviously we acquired him at the
trade deadline last year, but he wasn't playing, and I
think I think we all believe that that was really
really helpful addition. And so I think continuity for continuity's
(04:14):
sake isn't isn't isn't what we're trying to achieve. But
I do think, like, especially given we have so many
young players that we think are internally improving, I think,
you know, I think it's easier, it's easier for players,
it's easier for people to improve and to feel good
in situations that they're comfortable in.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So continuity helps with that.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
And uh, I think from a coaching perspective, like you
don't you know, you're not You're not trying to bring
somebody in a up up to speed. And obviously there
are guys who are just so high IQ that they're
just it's all really quick.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
But but there's lots of effective players.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
It takes time, and so the more the more continuity
you have, the less you have to do some of that.
So again, all things being equal, new it he is great,
but you know, the goal ultimately is to build a
championship team.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And if we think.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
That there's a move or a series of moves that
make it more likely we will be that, then we
would ignore continuity and we'd do those moves.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
Yeah, I would say for me anyway, it's you know,
we talked about going into your two and the goals
and understood that everybody was gonna be much better in
the second year, so we kind of hit the ground
running as far as that to this point. On the
addition that Steven was there, and I think it really
was a big part of us jumping out the way
we did this year, you know. And so that continuity
(05:39):
is good, no doubt. But you've seen teams make a
lot of moves and they feel like they need to
get over the hump, and donscience is added or Butler's added,
and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But we always
felt comfortable about what we had here and that we
take this step this year.
Speaker 7 (05:55):
So for both of you, is there anything that you
learned about individual players or just the roster in total
by playing the Warriors seven straight games and just kind
of seeing the ways that they attacked you when you
had their full attention for two and a half weeks.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
You know, I don't.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I think we learned a lot about our I think
it's it's less what we learned and more it's a
learning opportunity. That's how I think about it, which is
like the grind of a series is different from the
regular season and the intensity like what like just this
is a compliment to emy that My favorite thing about
(06:33):
this team is I felt from the beginning of the
year to the end of the year, we were the
hardest playing team in basketball. And that's that's really a
testament to him and his staff and obviously to our
players as well. But but that'll get you over in
the regular season in a way, it won't get you
over in the playoffs because everybody plays hard in the playoffs,
(06:54):
and so getting our guys to to realize that, like
not getting them to realize that, how them having the
opportunity to feel what that's like. I just think it's
a tremendous learning opportunity, and some of it we picked
up on the fly. We for sure improved through the
course of those seven games, but I think the bulk
of that opportunity is to come where they get a
(07:16):
chance to reflect on it and incorporate it and work
through the summer and work through next year. So that's
that's more how I think about it.
Speaker 5 (07:25):
An experience for me is a big thing for our
young guys going through it for the first time, and
you know, how fast can we adapt to it and
next time we're in the playoffs, since it's hit the
ground running from game one, not you know, take a
step back, and I think we kind of found our footing,
you know, midway through the series, but let go some
opportunities early that I think with the with the series
(07:47):
under your belt, a hard fought series, you can kind
of reflect on and go back on those lessons that
you've learned, and so I think our guys will be
better for it, no doubt.
Speaker 8 (07:57):
In regards to them men. Just being in the gym
with him every day. How would you quantify his growth,
particularly the offensive end, and what's possible for him on
that end? Rupell, What was it like for you he
seeing the guy that you were really high on but
unto this rising star throughout the year.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
Yeah, I mean he's an extremely hard worker, a grinder
like all of our guys are. You never had a
complain about that of guys not putting in the work,
and so he views himself as one of the best,
if not the best, at what he's trying to be
and there's no real ceiling for him. He's going to
continue to ascend like that. But the understanding he catches
(08:34):
on very quickly, and once he does some things, he
applies it and kind of puts it in his memory.
Banking just his versatility, as you know, he's much different
We use in much different ways than what he did
his whole career, and he's adapted to all those things
very well, and so ultimate Soss army Knife. You put
him in any position one through five, he guards one
through five. He has played and gives us a ton
(08:56):
of luxury and versatility to have a guy like that.
But yes, guy's limit, no ceiling on what he wants
to be and the work he puts in.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Ha showed that.
Speaker 9 (09:06):
This is for both of you.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Guys.
Speaker 10 (09:08):
What did y'all like about the identity of the team
this year?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, I mean, I think.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
One one of the lessons I've learned in my current
role is that there there's a lot of there's a
lot of ways to win in the NBA, and there's
there's there's different organizations have been successful doing different things.
And one of the best ways to win in the
NBA is just getting obscenely lucky and lucking into player
(09:43):
X who elevates everyone around him, or something like that.
But when you're when you're trying to build something, I
guess the biggest lesson I've learned is that having a
clear direction that fits the organization's personality is really important.
And I guess for our organization that one hundred percent
(10:06):
starts with Tillman and then and then it's and then
it's me, and then it's our coach, and then it's
our players, and and it's but it's not it's not
like four people or fifteen people or whatever. It's really
there's like I don't know, one hundred of us or
(10:27):
ninety of us or something that interact on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
So taking that back to the team.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
And everything, what I would say is that like, there's
different ways you can win, and there's different ways you
can lose. You can you can win a game by
making every three pointer and playing horrific defense and never
getting a rebound. You can win a game never making
a three pointer and playing the world's best defense and rebounding.
I'm I'm my personality, just me. I'm way more comfortable
(10:58):
trying to win and version and two of that than
version one and and if I can, I personally, I'm okay.
If I feel like we left it all on the table,
I can. I can lose and be okay. I struggle.
I struggle if I if I feel like we're we're
soft or not or getting out worked. Going all the
(11:22):
way back to the first time we met and spent
time together, for me in Emay, that was that was
something I felt like we kind of bonded over and
it was for sure something I thought was gonna end
up being important to him, and obviously it has.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
It is important to him.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
And so the way this team kind of in year
two has taken that on is something I really like.
And I think we have an identity and I think
it fits Tillman's identity, and if it's mine and if
it's emails, and if it's our players, and I think
that's that's a good that's a good basis, a good
(12:00):
holding block from which we can build.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Did all.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
What do you like? I mean that it is a
lot of what he said, and that was from day one,
where the competitiveness and effort and you know, all those
things were there from day one, and especially for a
young team and a team that had lost a lot,
and so that's where you start with. And we've built
it from there. And so I think guys have gotten tougher,
(12:29):
and guys have pulled each other up, and you know,
all rubbed off on each other as far as that
edge and toughness, and you start with that and then
you get to the skills, you get to IQ, you
get to all the other areas where we need to
grow and continue to build and learn, but the foundation
is set and we knew get we know we give
ourselves a really good chance on a nightly basis because
of that. And so message was you you come in
(12:51):
with this effort and this competitiveness, you'll win three out
of four games.
Speaker 7 (12:54):
That was our goal.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
We said, you know, seventy five percent of your game
seventy seventy five percent is doing that all night basis.
And we've done that from day one. And so we
saw the competitiveness, scuffles, scuffles and scratch, you know, all
the things from last year. And I think we've only
increased that as guys have grown and will continue to
when they get more confident, more physically stronger and all
(13:16):
those things, and bodes well for us going forward. That
that's late and now we kind of work on everything else,
the skill the skill sets IQ and just continue to
grow as a group.
Speaker 6 (13:27):
Question for both of you, as you look back on
the series, what is your assessment of what Jalen did
in that series? How do you balance that with what
you saw over the course of a long season, and
perhaps what are the next steps for him to take
as a player To become the player that I'm sure
you would like him to become.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
You know, Jalen didn't have the series that he wanted
to have, but we didn't. But I think, you know,
it's it's a little bit of a double edged sword
in terms of trying to evaluate it, because they their
goal going into the series was to take him out,
and that was obvious, and and I think I think
(14:07):
they talked about it. I didn't actually listen to what
they said afterwards, but people told me what they said,
So like, who knows, I think they talked about it.
We're not a team built around any one player offensively,
whether it's Jalen or Albren or a man or Fred.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
And so.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
If your if your goal is to take out one
of our players, in theory, what should happen is that
our other players should just punish it. And he may
frequently talks to the guys about inviting double teams hit
the guy like and and you're the sacrificial lamb.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
And so you know, in some games we punished it.
In some games we.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Didn't, you know, and one of in one of the games,
we ended up with great spacing and we were able
to like punish it with him, that's maybe unsustainable, but
but yeah, I would just say that, like, uh, we
for all of our guys, like we want them to
learn and everything else, but it's not you know, one
playoff series doesn't define a player. But also I think
(15:10):
in particular with him and that, yeah, like if if
a team's going after you like that, they're going after
you like that, and then then it's it's a team
game for a reason. And I'm confident that if we
want to take any one player out, we can and
will on any team in the NBA. And so it's
just the repercussions of that that that impact the winning
(15:33):
or losing.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
That's how I think about it.
Speaker 5 (15:35):
And more of the same where he really improved as
far as that, you know, it's a compliment to him
that teams will go after and to that extent, and
he saw it throughout the season, had you know, some
practice at and we got better at it. But the
main thing is obviously getting the ball to the playmakers
behind it and not turning it over, and at times
(15:56):
he struggled with that early in the season and he's
really improved there. To Rafel's point, we made him pay
at times and then at times it worked in their
favor vice versa with them when we took carry out
at times and Peyton hurts us down the stretch, but
a lot of other guys miss white them shots and
we win those going away. And so the more practice
and confidence you have with that in him just you know,
(16:18):
being the decoy at times like I mentioned, and so
there are opportunities that you still will have with that.
And the more stops we can get, the more we
could play in transition to avoid those is good for
him and good for us. But you know, he went
through some growing pains, no doubt. I think physically getting
stronger to absorb contact on some of his drives when
he has the advantage, or finishing at the rim when
(16:40):
he does get the driving lane, all those things. There
are things we talked about with him going into the
offseason and able to use him off the ball a
little bit more. And you got to get a little
bit stronger as far as that, because they took him
out of some of those actions where they couldn't trap,
and so some areas for him to grow obviously, some
areas for us to use him a little bit better.
But when he does face those, we have enough talent
behind express see a really good passing big like Alpi
(17:02):
that should punish that every night.
Speaker 11 (17:06):
Tari and Jabari both missed some time with injuries this season,
but we're able to make an impact still. You may
how do you evaluate their development this season specifically? And Raphel,
how likely do you think it is that those two
sign extensions.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
Yeah, for me, obviously, Jabari going down, he came back
really good and adapted to the role we brought him
back in, which was coming off the bench, and so
you know, you slid them in and there, and we
were a different team but better in some ways. Obviously
the shooting wasn't there the starting unit, but his versatility
and am End's made that a seamless transition. I think
(17:43):
he was ultimate professional. Came back and handled it well
and even showed, you know how much we missed him
while he was gone. You know, he plugged a lot
of those gaps when he came back, whether it was
starting at or playing at the four, starting at the
or playing the three or the five at times, and
with a double big lineup, he was really good there.
Tari's different obviously, you know, it's like the continuity of
(18:03):
him playing every night but he had to be conscious
of that and getting him to the end of season
as well. And so there are some things with the
young guy that you want to see growth wise, and
I think the fact that he couldn't play a nightly
basis you know, that's that's a tough one for him,
especially as competitive as he is. And so you know
you didn't mention Fred as well, you know, being out
(18:24):
with the injuries and how that hurt us and affected us,
but how it helped the team overall. And so those
two continue to show growth, you know, I would say overall,
they have a lot of things to work on it
like like everybody, and they know that and that's what
this big off season is for.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
So sorry, I was gonna say, I know you said
you wanted me to comment on their free agency status,
which is.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Their extension eligible. We will talk.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I'm not going to comment on any of our negotiations,
but they're very important parts of what we do and
we have and they're they're just they're really really both solid,
solid guys like they're they're I love those guys. I
actually like it's probably already come across. But this team
(19:17):
as a whole, like the group of guys too that
you you know, to come in every day and.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Work with is is just great. It's just great.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
And yeah, I thought, I thought both Tari and Jabbari
in particular, really hard years with injuries and and just
growing up, growing pains of various sorts, and they just
they both handled it so well. I'm I'm yeah, I'm
very appreciative of them and their effort and and very
(19:48):
excited about where, you know, the direction I think they're
both headed.
Speaker 12 (19:54):
Uh, this question is for Raphael. You have an opportunity
to talk with Tilman a lot later on in see
you later on in the season and during the playoffs
and after the playoffs. I know he leads the basketball
stuff up to you, but what is his vision move
moving forward going into next season and how does he
currently see the roster constructed?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I mean, I think it's, you know, we're aligned.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
It's the visions, the visions, the one I've laid out
to you, which is we're you know, I don't know.
I think I like no one believed me, but I
think like four years ago, I was like, we're gonna
be really young, and I think I used words like excited.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I never used words like.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Winning like like, you know, we we you know, we
knew what we were in for, and he knew what
he was in for and and you know, and we're
we're not there, like the goals to build a championship
team and we clearly we're not a championship team this year.
So we're all we're all still in it. But but
he's completely bought in. Uh you know, I'll just speak
(20:52):
on his behalf, like I know this is his favorite
team he's ever had. Just again, kind of a lot
of it is what I just said, which is he
also has an opportunity to be around our guys day
in and day out, and they're good guys, and I
think he appreciates them not just for the players they are,
but for the people they are. And yeah, he's just
very bought in on this group and seeing and thinking
(21:14):
that this that this group can get us, can get
us to where we want to go.
Speaker 13 (21:20):
You're right, you did say excitement. We tried to get
you to give us a number and you wouldn't, So
I remember that. Imay, you've been around basketball a long time.
What do you do in terms of evaluating yourself and
your staff? Is that process to say where are we
what can we work on?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
What's that process for you?
Speaker 5 (21:36):
Yeah, I mean before the season starts, we do a
full season recap of obviously our coach was the treat
We get together and look at the previous season and
look at areas of growth improvement across the board. We
check the numbers and you see how we use guys,
how we develop you guys. Everybody has a different role
obviously with the coaching staff, but reflecting on myself and
(21:58):
looking at areas of growth, that's always a big thing.
And that obviously starts much before we get together for
coaches retreat and so yeah, it's always ways to improve.
And that's what that was a message to the team
yesterday and after the game was I have to come
back better. The staff does as well, and all of
you guys as well, and so it's not just physically
mentally all those things. Yeah, it's overall growth. It's not
(22:22):
pointing in fingers that we miss shots. It's did we
get the right shots? Did we use you guys the
right way? And you know, target areas to be better
at and or be number one in, and we hit
some of those this year. We've been really good at some,
but we can always be a lot better, and so
different ways to grow and learn and kind of lean
(22:43):
back on experiences. To your point, I've been seeing a
lot of things and been around for a long time,
and anything we can implement to make our team better
and things run more smoothly.
Speaker 8 (22:54):
You mentioned not being at a championship level.
Speaker 7 (22:57):
What do you believe is the first or what is
the first step you will will take to get to
that level?
Speaker 8 (23:02):
What do you what more do you feel like you
all need to get there?
Speaker 2 (23:05):
We're gonna work hard over the summer and everybody's gonna better.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Then we'll see where we're at. Like, that's that's the
one thing I know will happen. Yeah, the rest we'll see,
but but I know that will happen. And we have
the vast bulk of our rotational minutes are being played
by players that I believe in my soul will be
way better next year than they were this year because
that's the point of their career that they're at. So
(23:29):
I think we'll see what you know, we'll see what
that brings.
Speaker 9 (23:37):
All Right, that was the press conference, Boyd. There was
not a whole lot of we're gonna listen to phone
calls I mean they're going to but certainly from two
days after the defeat of the team, it was we
love our core, we love our nucleus, we love our
group of eight that were our rotation guys trust the process.
(24:00):
So it sounds like that's probably what they're gonna go with.
I'll stick with my gut feeling from earlier. There's no
earth shattering superstar move, but maybe a rotational player. So
maybe we should not get into a deep seated conversation
about the certain member of the Milwaukee Bugs or the
certain member of the Phoenix Suns.
Speaker 10 (24:17):
Probably not, or any members of the Phoenix Suns.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Let's say that happens.
Speaker 10 (24:21):
Let's say they re signed Steven Adams, they restructure Fred
van Vliet, and they keep their lottery pick. How you
feeling about next year?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
I'm feeling good.
Speaker 9 (24:32):
But the the hangover of Jalen, it's the hangover that
James Harden has Now is that James?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Is that going to be a.
Speaker 9 (24:40):
One year issue for Janlin in the playoffs or is
it for James Harden? At least he at least he'd
get your ten assists. But the curtain, not the curse,
but the the aura of James in important games.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
That hasn't changed. He's been on Link fifteen years.
Speaker 10 (24:55):
Yeah, And I mean it's just the I would say
that right now, the fan base, as far as their
support for Jalen Green is an all time low. And
then just feeling the way that this series went, I'm
feeling is it's probably as pessimistic as I have about
his career, about him his blossoming career.
Speaker 9 (25:14):
So he said, Rafel did, what is this team gonna
be like next year? And he said this, this, this
is They're all gonna be better. They're gonna work hard,
which they are gonna do. They've never been adverse to
working hard. I've seen him myself. Yes, But I think
there's one thing that has to change next year
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