October 1, 2025 • 10 mins
With Week 4 of the NFL now in the books, the Houston Texans stand at 1-3 following their victory Sunday over Cam Ward and the Tennessee Titans. Now heading into Week 5, the Texans face a critical opportunity to secure a win against the Baltimore Ravens, who may be without their star quarterback under center, Lamar Jackson. Surprisingly, standing at 1-3 to start the season, both teams desperately need Sunday's win over the other to boost their chances of making the playoffs before hopes are far-flung. Possibly not to suit up on Sunday in regards to a hamstring injury, Sean and Dan discuss how crucial it is for the Texans to try to pull out of Sunday with a victory over the Ravens, with the chance to combat their disappointing start to the season.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Some one, three, two, one, two, five, seven ninety is
the number to get in.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
What do you got, uh sitting here thinking if you
were a the way the Texans have played sans a
few quarters, offensively for the most part, right, defensively, y'all,
I'll take them That defense travels. Okay, they got to
tackle better in the run game. But they're fixable, right
because they're really good. Matter of fact, I haven't even
looked at the statistics after this, but there's got to
(00:24):
be a case that they're giving up about as minimal
points as anybody in the league is.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Right now. I want to.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Say, somebody did say what the tail of the tape
is in terms of what the Ravens do as opposed
to what the Texans defensively do. I think the Ravens
were like, that's not even close. Thirty second and something
in the Texans were number one.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yeah, I knew they were.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
They're there right now overall, just because especially in points,
they've got to be there because nobody's off. They're getting
beat by teams that aren't even scoring a lot. Yeah,
they get beat so and they're giving up points. That's right, tons,
that's right. So you take that to to Baltimore. The
way the defense so it travels, I'm not worried about them,
especially backup quarterback. While Cooper Rush can win, your game
plan can be scaled down because you do not have
(01:04):
to Your practice becomes a lot, I don't want to
say easier. It becomes a lot mentally simpler because you
don't have Lamar Jackson's feet.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Well, there's that, but I mean it's also though too.
I mean you were talking about away for the offense,
is they go they're banged up.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Oh, that's my next point.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
If you were a big point about this is with
the way your own team's playing offensively, there is no
better time to get the Ravens than now. Now, if
Lamar Jackson was playing, and you were telling me a
couple of those defensive players were going to be back healthy,
fully healthy this week in Baltimore, now, I'd say after
having their ass handed to him by a couple of
good teams, I'd say you might be running into a
(01:39):
hate to use the phrase of a hornet's nest or
a buzzsaw, because they are going to because they realize
they are treading on thin ice as.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Far as playoffs go. They lose this they're one and four.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, and guess what, and guess what the Steelers win
and what they're four and one, and the way they're
playing right now, they're playing like the best team in
the division. And Rodgers looks like Aaron Rodgers. So you
do not want to do this now. And then they're
not conceding with Rush because Cooper Rush did some good
things as a back up with the guy and we
seen Carson Wentz. Backups are putting up a few numbers
in different places, and especially ones that have been in
(02:12):
the league, and Cooper Rush will understand what they're trying
to do.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Now.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
It ain't gonna be easy. It wouldn't be easy for
Lamar Jackson against this defense. But during your practice week,
you don't have to defend the full field. Now in
the quarterback run game I'm talking about, Coop Rush ain't
beating you with his feet. Now, may he may buy
a little time. You know the point he is not
beating you with his feet. It's gonna be ball out
on time. All those things you're trying to get accomplished,
so this is a good time to get them, especially
(02:39):
when that quarterback's not playing. So now you got two choices.
You can go in there and say, oh, Lamar's is
not playing and take a sigh of relief. Or you
better go in there and say we are one and
three and a one and four loss and a Colts win.
We're not winning the division. It's just too and Jackson
Jack's quite better than you could have ever thought. Yeah,
and to be honest with you, I thought Liam Cohen
(03:02):
feels like he just wants to be a bro with
the guys. And then and now they're winning. Listen, I
may think he's cheesy, but out that doesn't matter. What
matters is can you coach xes and o is, can
you lead? And are your players buying in? If they're
buying in, nobody else is oh, well we've seen that
movie before under franchises, so this is huge. But there's
no time they've ever played the Baltimore Ravens in there
(03:23):
in the last I don't know they never wont to right.
But every time about where you go in you say, whoa,
there's no time going in where you feel like where
you should be the favorite. It should be Now offensively,
people look and say, man, you're off your your injury,
the way you're playing on offense, doesn't even give you
an advantage over the way that deef. I mean, however,
many injuries on there and now it's it's equal. But
(03:45):
you've never run into the Ravens in the last decade
a less physical team and a morphiness team than them.
Defensively right now, with these injuries, they're not good. Look
at the numbers. They're getting gashed. So if you want
to get right, this would not normally be a game
you'd say, I'm going to get right. This would be one, dude,
you better grind it out. It's gonna be a fistfight
and a slug fest, and you better bow your neck
and realize if you've come out of this and you
(04:07):
win twenty three to twenty, enjoy the hell out of
it because it's gonna be hard to come by. Now
this one. You can hang forty in there building on
that defense right now. Now, I'm not sure this offense
can yet say, but this is the first time that
they've gone to Baltimore in a decade where I would
have thought or longer or I would have thought, yeah,
(04:27):
and you've got a chance to hang on this defense
because normally it's like just if you turn it over
that you've got no shot, and so but this is
one I'm thinking you shouldn't go in there fearing it
at all, and you should go in there saying I
can get right. This is usually not a get right team.
This is usually a grinded out team, meaning the Ravens.
This is a good time, But I wouldn't overlook a
backups who's wants to make a difference with the way
(04:51):
that offense is playing. Baltimore's offense isn't exactly tearing it up.
I would like to see that they're capable with their bandwidth.
But now Cooper Rush will nowhere to throw it, and
that's a big part of it. But advantage Texans quite
frankly on both sides of the ball. And you ain't
saying that much this year.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Now, and we'll see if they are able to actually
live up to said expectations used throughout Because I do
have a concerning this game, concern about the Texans, Yes, yes,
very much.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Do you are you? I mean, how concerned? What's the
level of concern?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I would say it's probably about an eight out of ten.
Eight out of ten, Yeah, that's where you're at, right
with this? Well, I mean, okay, we'll do it now.
You wanted to save it, Yeah, yeah, and we'll save
the the Joe and Dana. But you know, just because
we're rolling on this, we'll go with it. Look at
Carolina in year one. Did you go in the Carolina
thinking you're going to lose that game?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Well, that came out of a bye week too, well,
two weeks, so there you go, right, all right?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
So against a team that there's an inferior opponent, a.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Struggling rookie quarterback which it wasn't necessarily about Bryce Young
that day, Frankie Luvo and that defense they handled you
all right. Last year at home against Tennessee. Did you
think that Will Levis was going to be able to
gas you? And did you think that Will Levis was
going to be able to crush you the way he did?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
My man, that was a hard one to take.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Well, but my point is you've got a really good
offensive coordinator over there, and Todd Munkin and oh, by
the way, you've got Dereck Henry who's not having a
really good year by his standards. That don't you think
he wants to get going against a team that against
Tampa Bay A couple of weeks ago did not stop
the run well whatsoever. So I just I get what
you're saying about no Lamar and being banged up on defense.
(06:33):
It's one hundred percent not because this is a team
that's also fighting for their season and a head coach
that's been there for damn near twenty years embarrassed early
on a thousand, and they're on their home field. So
I just I think that every bit in every fiber
of Demiko Ryans and his staff this week has to
be do not take this team.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Lightly, because listen, hardball is going to He's going to
play that you guys have been humiliated card mm hmm,
we all have. I mean not to dog his team,
but he's going to ride that pony and I would too,
and he's going to ride the We're hurt, we're banged up.
Everybody's questioned us, our quarterbacks out, what are you guys
going to do? They're going to Walton here thinking that that, oh,
this is going to be an easy one because oh
(07:14):
they're banged up and we're not playing good on defense.
We struggled on offense. We're one and three, but we'll
go find out and he's going to test their character. Man,
I'm just telling you, and let's not forget if I'm
them Cooper Rush thrown at twenty twenty. I am doing
everything I can. Derek Henry's getting forty carries. I'm dead serious, he's.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Going to look like, dude, Tennessee, when's the last time
they stopped Derek Henry anywhere?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Exactly so?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
And you saw if they a couple of years ago
they did. Yeah, but most of the time, dude, he is.
He's the for running backs, He's the the wide receiver
for the Colts. What was uh, Martin Harris I t
Y Hilton. I was gonna call him t I Hilton.
T Y Hilton dominated the Texans. He had a career
(07:59):
against them. One is and one is sometimes about right.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
So there you go.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
See he had a career against the Texans him every
time he came, he had a career. His career was
damn near elevated by his performance against the Texans and
Derrick Henry. You got to wear them out because you
know now that the threat is last day. Should just
Derrick Henry right now has to be the focus. Now
you gotta quid lay in the ball on the ground.
But they are going to test their front seven round
(08:25):
the ball they are, which the dangerous part is you
keep doing that. They're going to take some play action
shots down the field with Coop Rush, knowing that you
lose the bandwidth of Lamar Jackson's feet.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
So, oh dude, I'm.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Just saying, if you're the Texans, this is a great
time if you're prepared, This is a great time to
get the Ravens because if they get fully healthy and pissed,
you probably don't want to play him in December. You
probably don't. This is a good time because I don't
see that the Ravens being a four and thirteen team,
at some point their pride's going to kick in. So
and it may very well because he's going to preach
the we're an underdog. I don't know what the if
(09:00):
they're an underdog in their building, but it's going to
be pretty close. The people are talking about we we're
the ones who are desperate right now. Yeah, two desperate teams,
they really are. Say what you want, but desperation does
kick in this early. I'm asxious to see how both
teams deal with it. But I wouldn't take Baltimore's toughness
for granted. Even though physically they're they're awfully finesse.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
This year, well, I mean it has shown in the
first few weeks, no doubt Buffalo able to come back
and beat them. And then last week, I mean, the
Chiefs are looking like the Chiefs that we expected them
to look like. And yeah, Texans one and a half
point favorite on the road.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
When's the last time a one in three team waltzed
into Baltimore? I don't care if it's a text anybout
a one and three team went into Baltimore. They play
in Baltimore. Correct, Yes, I was gonna say, Man, hopefully
I'm not wrong. Next weeks on the road, they play
in Baltimore. When's the last time a one in three
team went into Baltimore as the favorite? I'll bet you
(09:56):
you haven't seen that since Lamar Jackson's been the quarterback.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
No, I mean, I I can't even maybe maybe like
the early years.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Last decade, ain't no way you could. If it is,
I'd be shocked. I talk I'm tom about not talking
about undefeated team. I'm talking about a one in three
team on the road coming into your building. And you're
a super Bowl candidate supposedly and they're favored, I'd keep
an eye on that line if you're a better Over
the next few weeks, it's.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Gonna be interesting to see if there's any movement, especially
if the Sharps, say Texans on the road. I'm not
so sure, but hopefully they are able to pull it
off on that Sunday. We'll continue to talk to them
also too. As I mentioned Dana Brown Joe spot of
meeting with the media yesterday. Was it these guys fault
that this did not go well in twenty twenty five
(10:44):
for the Astros. What you hear from both of those
guys to determine for yourself right here, Sean Salisbury Show
Some one, three, two, one, two, five, seven ninety is
the number to get in.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
What do you got, uh sitting here thinking if you
were a the way the Texans have played sans a
few quarters, offensively for the most part, right, defensively, y'all,
I'll take them That defense travels. Okay, they got to
tackle better in the run game. But they're fixable, right
because they're really good. Matter of fact, I haven't even
looked at the statistics after this, but there's got to
(00:24):
be a case that they're giving up about as minimal
points as anybody in the league is.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Right now. I want to.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Say, somebody did say what the tail of the tape
is in terms of what the Ravens do as opposed
to what the Texans defensively do. I think the Ravens
were like, that's not even close. Thirty second and something
in the Texans were number one.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yeah, I knew they were.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
They're there right now overall, just because especially in points,
they've got to be there because nobody's off. They're getting
beat by teams that aren't even scoring a lot. Yeah,
they get beat so and they're giving up points. That's right, tons,
that's right. So you take that to to Baltimore. The
way the defense so it travels, I'm not worried about them,
especially backup quarterback. While Cooper Rush can win, your game
plan can be scaled down because you do not have
(01:04):
to Your practice becomes a lot, I don't want to
say easier. It becomes a lot mentally simpler because you
don't have Lamar Jackson's feet.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Well, there's that, but I mean it's also though too.
I mean you were talking about away for the offense,
is they go they're banged up.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Oh, that's my next point.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
If you were a big point about this is with
the way your own team's playing offensively, there is no
better time to get the Ravens than now. Now, if
Lamar Jackson was playing, and you were telling me a
couple of those defensive players were going to be back healthy,
fully healthy this week in Baltimore, now, I'd say after
having their ass handed to him by a couple of
good teams, I'd say you might be running into a
(01:39):
hate to use the phrase of a hornet's nest or
a buzzsaw, because they are going to because they realize
they are treading on thin ice as.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Far as playoffs go. They lose this they're one and four.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, and guess what, and guess what the Steelers win
and what they're four and one, and the way they're
playing right now, they're playing like the best team in
the division. And Rodgers looks like Aaron Rodgers. So you
do not want to do this now. And then they're
not conceding with Rush because Cooper Rush did some good
things as a back up with the guy and we
seen Carson Wentz. Backups are putting up a few numbers
in different places, and especially ones that have been in
(02:12):
the league, and Cooper Rush will understand what they're trying
to do.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Now.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
It ain't gonna be easy. It wouldn't be easy for
Lamar Jackson against this defense. But during your practice week,
you don't have to defend the full field. Now in
the quarterback run game I'm talking about, Coop Rush ain't
beating you with his feet. Now, may he may buy
a little time. You know the point he is not
beating you with his feet. It's gonna be ball out
on time. All those things you're trying to get accomplished,
so this is a good time to get them, especially
(02:39):
when that quarterback's not playing. So now you got two choices.
You can go in there and say, oh, Lamar's is
not playing and take a sigh of relief. Or you
better go in there and say we are one and
three and a one and four loss and a Colts win.
We're not winning the division. It's just too and Jackson
Jack's quite better than you could have ever thought. Yeah,
and to be honest with you, I thought Liam Cohen
(03:02):
feels like he just wants to be a bro with
the guys. And then and now they're winning. Listen, I
may think he's cheesy, but out that doesn't matter. What
matters is can you coach xes and o is, can
you lead? And are your players buying in? If they're
buying in, nobody else is oh, well we've seen that
movie before under franchises, so this is huge. But there's
no time they've ever played the Baltimore Ravens in there
(03:23):
in the last I don't know they never wont to right.
But every time about where you go in you say, whoa,
there's no time going in where you feel like where
you should be the favorite. It should be Now offensively,
people look and say, man, you're off your your injury,
the way you're playing on offense, doesn't even give you
an advantage over the way that deef. I mean, however,
many injuries on there and now it's it's equal. But
(03:45):
you've never run into the Ravens in the last decade
a less physical team and a morphiness team than them.
Defensively right now, with these injuries, they're not good. Look
at the numbers. They're getting gashed. So if you want
to get right, this would not normally be a game
you'd say, I'm going to get right. This would be one, dude,
you better grind it out. It's gonna be a fistfight
and a slug fest, and you better bow your neck
and realize if you've come out of this and you
(04:07):
win twenty three to twenty, enjoy the hell out of
it because it's gonna be hard to come by. Now
this one. You can hang forty in there building on
that defense right now. Now, I'm not sure this offense
can yet say, but this is the first time that
they've gone to Baltimore in a decade where I would
have thought or longer or I would have thought, yeah,
(04:27):
and you've got a chance to hang on this defense
because normally it's like just if you turn it over
that you've got no shot, and so but this is
one I'm thinking you shouldn't go in there fearing it
at all, and you should go in there saying I
can get right. This is usually not a get right team.
This is usually a grinded out team, meaning the Ravens.
This is a good time, But I wouldn't overlook a
backups who's wants to make a difference with the way
(04:51):
that offense is playing. Baltimore's offense isn't exactly tearing it up.
I would like to see that they're capable with their bandwidth.
But now Cooper Rush will nowhere to throw it, and
that's a big part of it. But advantage Texans quite
frankly on both sides of the ball. And you ain't
saying that much this year.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Now, and we'll see if they are able to actually
live up to said expectations used throughout Because I do
have a concerning this game, concern about the Texans, Yes, yes,
very much.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Do you are you? I mean, how concerned? What's the
level of concern?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I would say it's probably about an eight out of ten.
Eight out of ten, Yeah, that's where you're at, right
with this? Well, I mean, okay, we'll do it now.
You wanted to save it, Yeah, yeah, and we'll save
the the Joe and Dana. But you know, just because
we're rolling on this, we'll go with it. Look at
Carolina in year one. Did you go in the Carolina
thinking you're going to lose that game?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Well, that came out of a bye week too, well,
two weeks, so there you go, right, all right?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
So against a team that there's an inferior opponent, a.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Struggling rookie quarterback which it wasn't necessarily about Bryce Young
that day, Frankie Luvo and that defense they handled you
all right. Last year at home against Tennessee. Did you
think that Will Levis was going to be able to
gas you? And did you think that Will Levis was
going to be able to crush you the way he did?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
My man, that was a hard one to take.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Well, but my point is you've got a really good
offensive coordinator over there, and Todd Munkin and oh, by
the way, you've got Dereck Henry who's not having a
really good year by his standards. That don't you think
he wants to get going against a team that against
Tampa Bay A couple of weeks ago did not stop
the run well whatsoever. So I just I get what
you're saying about no Lamar and being banged up on defense.
(06:33):
It's one hundred percent not because this is a team
that's also fighting for their season and a head coach
that's been there for damn near twenty years embarrassed early
on a thousand, and they're on their home field. So
I just I think that every bit in every fiber
of Demiko Ryans and his staff this week has to
be do not take this team.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Lightly, because listen, hardball is going to He's going to
play that you guys have been humiliated card mm hmm,
we all have. I mean not to dog his team,
but he's going to ride that pony and I would too,
and he's going to ride the We're hurt, we're banged up.
Everybody's questioned us, our quarterbacks out, what are you guys
going to do? They're going to Walton here thinking that that, oh,
this is going to be an easy one because oh
(07:14):
they're banged up and we're not playing good on defense.
We struggled on offense. We're one and three, but we'll
go find out and he's going to test their character. Man,
I'm just telling you, and let's not forget if I'm
them Cooper Rush thrown at twenty twenty. I am doing
everything I can. Derek Henry's getting forty carries. I'm dead serious, he's.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Going to look like, dude, Tennessee, when's the last time
they stopped Derek Henry anywhere?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Exactly so?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
And you saw if they a couple of years ago
they did. Yeah, but most of the time, dude, he is.
He's the for running backs, He's the the wide receiver
for the Colts. What was uh, Martin Harris I t
Y Hilton. I was gonna call him t I Hilton.
T Y Hilton dominated the Texans. He had a career
(07:59):
against them. One is and one is sometimes about right.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
So there you go.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
See he had a career against the Texans him every
time he came, he had a career. His career was
damn near elevated by his performance against the Texans and
Derrick Henry. You got to wear them out because you
know now that the threat is last day. Should just
Derrick Henry right now has to be the focus. Now
you gotta quid lay in the ball on the ground.
But they are going to test their front seven round
(08:25):
the ball they are, which the dangerous part is you
keep doing that. They're going to take some play action
shots down the field with Coop Rush, knowing that you
lose the bandwidth of Lamar Jackson's feet.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
So, oh dude, I'm.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Just saying, if you're the Texans, this is a great
time if you're prepared, This is a great time to
get the Ravens because if they get fully healthy and pissed,
you probably don't want to play him in December. You
probably don't. This is a good time because I don't
see that the Ravens being a four and thirteen team,
at some point their pride's going to kick in. So
and it may very well because he's going to preach
the we're an underdog. I don't know what the if
(09:00):
they're an underdog in their building, but it's going to
be pretty close. The people are talking about we we're
the ones who are desperate right now. Yeah, two desperate teams,
they really are. Say what you want, but desperation does
kick in this early. I'm asxious to see how both
teams deal with it. But I wouldn't take Baltimore's toughness
for granted. Even though physically they're they're awfully finesse.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
This year, well, I mean it has shown in the
first few weeks, no doubt Buffalo able to come back
and beat them. And then last week, I mean, the
Chiefs are looking like the Chiefs that we expected them
to look like. And yeah, Texans one and a half
point favorite on the road.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
When's the last time a one in three team waltzed
into Baltimore? I don't care if it's a text anybout
a one and three team went into Baltimore. They play
in Baltimore. Correct, Yes, I was gonna say, Man, hopefully
I'm not wrong. Next weeks on the road, they play
in Baltimore. When's the last time a one in three
team went into Baltimore as the favorite? I'll bet you
(09:56):
you haven't seen that since Lamar Jackson's been the quarterback.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
No, I mean, I I can't even maybe maybe like
the early years.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Last decade, ain't no way you could. If it is,
I'd be shocked. I talk I'm tom about not talking
about undefeated team. I'm talking about a one in three
team on the road coming into your building. And you're
a super Bowl candidate supposedly and they're favored, I'd keep
an eye on that line if you're a better Over
the next few weeks, it's.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Gonna be interesting to see if there's any movement, especially
if the Sharps, say Texans on the road. I'm not
so sure, but hopefully they are able to pull it
off on that Sunday. We'll continue to talk to them
also too. As I mentioned Dana Brown Joe spot of
meeting with the media yesterday. Was it these guys fault
that this did not go well in twenty twenty five
(10:44):
for the Astros. What you hear from both of those
guys to determine for yourself right here, Sean Salisbury Show
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com