Memories of the Erwin Center Part 4

Let's talk about more great concerts and events at the Frank Erwin Center and let's talk about artist's riders.....here's John Graham, Liz Land and Jimmy Earl with more stories.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
All right, it's Bob Pikett.Hope you enjoyed our podcast Memories the Frank
Urwin Center with John Graham, JimmyEarle and Liz Land. We've had so
much fun just talking about their Wincenter, and there may be some more episodes
in the future, I certainly hopeso. But now let's get back to
our conversation with John Graham and JimmyEarle and Liz Land talking about the writers.
The writers, you know what thewhat the artists would want whenever they

(00:22):
performed. Let's continue our conversation now. Any thing strange with the writers,
John, if you got all thecontracts, there has to be one entertainer
who you're going they really wanted thisin the writer. Well, what's funny
is that over the years those writersand there's two parts of a contract,
as Jimmy and Liz would know,there's sort of page one and two,
which is here's the money and who'shere's who gets the money, and then

(00:47):
the remaining seventy pages of the cookbookon putting on that event in whatever city
or whatever day of the week thereDoD So you've got all the catering and
all those kind of things. Now, one of the things that changed over
the years was used to be theyou come into town and you would either
the venue had provide catering or youwould go to some restaurant in town.

(01:07):
They would bring the catering. Inthe last particularly in the big tours the
last few years, they bring theirown own kitchen with them, so they
have the artist wants a certain kindof consistency as far as the food is
concerned in the show. And ifyou think about it, they're like an
army and they travel on their stomach, so they need to have that kind

(01:27):
of assurance and continuity. So youwould have these large kitchens that would set
up in the Irwin Center the lastprobably eight or nine years, where they
would prepare the meals on site.And that was one of the things that
changed over the years a great deal. But the only one that everybody ever

(01:47):
talks about. It seems to me. It was the old Van Halen rider
about the Brown m and Adam.That's why I'm bringing up was that really
true, because I know they playedthe heroin Center. Oh yeah, that
was absolutely true that I do havethat contract in that rider, and I
remember this was actually when I wasin Illinois, but I'm sure that there
was the same case wherever they went. And so they said, no brown
Eminem's. If there's brown Eminem's,it's bad, and uh, you know,

(02:12):
big type, you know, mustbe. If not, you know,
we'll cancel the show or something.And so we we did that.
We brought the goblets of Eminem's backstage, and lo and behold, there were
no brown Eminem's. And I hadto ask somebody, what's what's the deal
with the brown m and ms.Well, we were just trying to see
if anybody read the writer, andthat was the only reason for having them

(02:35):
to get in the brown Eminem's out. I said, really, I'm really
sorry to hear this, but wejust found out the guy that separated old
brown Eminem's out he was diagnosed withsyphilis. So I hope you guys are
okay. So that was nice,Jim Aye. And writers that you notice,
well that one that one is famous. There there are the writers over

(02:59):
the years became more sane, asI recall. You know, it used
to be kind of outland the statewant all of the fancy food and fancy
boots and all of that. Butthen I don't know, probably in the
mid eighties or late early nineties,the producers flipped that around to where they'd

(03:22):
have to pay for that, andand the writers changed substantially. You know,
they wanted a little less and whenthey have to pay for it,
it's it's it's it's not that bigdeal. But when they don't have to
pay for it, I mean soyeah, they'd have to have you know,

(03:44):
I remember Clarence Clemens. He hadto have this special caviat and this
special vodka and that kind of stoodout. And Dona Ross she would want,
uh, the Loure, the thirteenthCavosier. You know it's like,
where do you find that in Austin? Well, you go to you can

(04:10):
get it. Hg B. I'mtelling you stuff. Well you you go
to you know wasn't Specs even atthe time, whoever Glaziers. I guess.
Uh. You know, it's likefifteen hundred dollars a bottle, but
you can find it. But youwant to make people feel at home,
Well they want that, So Idon't know if that's one of those items

(04:30):
you negotiate or not. You know, look as a fifteen hundred bucks,
sez, you're killing me. Sothose are the kinds of things that have
changed. Riders became I think,much more simple, simpler, more and
more saying instead and true. Themoney became such a big issue because the

(04:57):
concert tickets, the cost of thesetours. In the beginning, in the
early eighties, a tour went outwith three, four, maybe five semi
trucks, that would be the biggestthing you saw. And toward the end,
I think we did a Kenny Chesneytour one time with thirty five sellers.
So when you see that that kindof production costs goes way up,
the expenses going way up, thefinancial side of that becomes a big item.

(05:21):
You If you mess up or something'snot right, then everybody loses a
lot of money. I used toused to tell the story that the artist
went from reading and trying to bein Rolling Stone magazine to reading and want
to be in Wall Street magazine WallStreet newspaper. So it moved from kind
of this so it's fun, sex, drugs and rock and roll. It's

(05:46):
probably still there, but the moneybecame such a big issue that you really
couldn't mess up to bad without derailingthe whole operation. I believe the money's
always been the focus of you knowwhy people do that. But I can
remember a time when the show wasa Cadillac in a U haul, yeah,

(06:10):
and you know, and then itbecame a Cadillac, a U haul
and a bobtail, and then therewas a bus and an eighteen wheeler and
it just keeps going. And alot of that has to do with the
technology. You know, it usedto be able to stack all the sound
because the buildings at that time couldn'tdidn't have the capacity to hang stuff from

(06:33):
the ceiling. And then as buildingsbecome more available to do that, then
the technology changes. And when thatchanges, you open up better site lines,
so then you get to sell moreseats and ask for more money.
And so it's a progression I thinkover time. If you look at how

(06:59):
how our industry again, and weare now totally I mean the bus parking
for the for the Moody Center,that's all underground. You don't even see
that anymore. All the trucks anymore, it's all underground, which is crazy
any any The entire financial the Iwas gonna say, the entire financial structure
of the concert and touring and recordbusiness changed when you could start downloading music.

(07:25):
The sales of records or albums,CDs and so on, that that
became less of an income stream forthe artist and they relied much more on
the touring side of things, thelive ticket and all that to make the
money. So that had to becomea bigger show, and you had to
provide a lot more to the fan, and the fan had higher expectations if

(07:46):
you've got to charge that kind ofmoney for an arts to go out,
you know, I mean, justlook at what Taylor Swift is doing out
there, stadium after stadium and theseare you know, it's a billion dollar
tour. And her last show atthe Irwin Center, which she had the
cast. I don't know how theypulled that off. I mean, it
was just an amazing shot. AndI think that was the same week I
think that McCartney was there. Imean production. I mean, when you

(08:07):
came to Eerwin Center, you knewthat you were going to see a show.
It just wasn't going to somebody's backyardand watch somebody with a guitar crazy.
Any any concerts canceled Earwin Center becauseof weather or anything like that,
do we have anything. I don'trecall anything to you. Yeah, there
was a Kenny Chesney. He didn'tcancel because of weather here, but it
canceled somewhere else. It was anice storm there that effected us, but

(08:28):
he was stuck here in a hotelroom. I remember that, Alpha,
I do remember that, and thatyou bring it up. Did the Globe
Trotter was canceled because of ice?Yeah? We had some weather issues with
some shows and events, But theone that stands out in my mind is,

(08:50):
uh, there's some There was severalthat happened, not not with us,
but it happened across the country relatedto COVID when Yeah, when they
shut down the country. You knownow that I mean that to me,
that was I mean the Irwinster.That was crazy. You guys are still
there working, but you couldn't promotea show. How did you guys handle

(09:13):
that? And John? You werealready gotten by that time, weren't you.
Yeah? I saw that coming.I got out of jail. Yeah,
he knew COVID was coming. Yeah, you're says, I'm out of
here. I'm out of here.I'll never forget that night. Chris Stapleton
was supposed to be a Canation.Yeah, that was our first That was
our first show in fact, wewere. We're in the process of moving

(09:37):
in and I I remember the daybefore I got several calls from Bob rue
about you know, what do youthink how when they start asking you questions
about, well, how much wegot in production? You know what's catering?
You know, that's when the flaggoes up here. Yeah, you
start saying, well, okay,and not looking good. Our staff was
actually there. Well. It's interestingbecause the catering bunch usually some of the

(10:05):
first people there, you know,to get the breakfast going for the stage
hands and everybody else. So Igot a text about four four in the
morning from one of the catering people, Hey, there's no trucks here,
and that's a dead giveaway. Something'shappening, something that's happening. And but

(10:28):
what happened was fed everybody breakfast andshut it down and put every you know,
save money from having a load inand stuff. But we did have
a lot of leftover had come back. I remember the last concert I saw
it there when Cinner. I rememberit was Stapleton that I saw the last
country act there. I remember going, wow, this will be the last

(10:50):
time that I'll ever see an actand going back, another big country moment
for me and John. I don'tknow, I don't think you were here
yet. I don't know if youwere here, Jimmy Arrow, But it
was a day that Poncho and left. He was number one. I think
I was still in college and Haggardwas playing the Irwin Center. Willie showed
up. Haggard did not know thelyrics to the song and had to read

(11:11):
him off a piece of paper.But also at that at that concert,
this is cool. I remember backthen they you could buy a VHS tape
of the actual concert, and Iflipped myself in the butt for not buying
that. Of course I was acollege kid, but you could do that.
Do you remember that you could buya copy of the show. I

(11:31):
was there for that. Yeah,And I'll tell you a story offline.
But the Merril Haggard was really reallygreat perform in my view, and he
was a little different, different,but he really could sing, and I

(11:52):
and right and and he and Williewere pretty dynamic together. But it was
pretty cool. The song was numberone in the country, and right there,
you've got it at the Irwin Centersinging and another show a kiss.
I remember, of course I sawKiss a bunch of times, but you
could get actually, you could geta download of that concert as you walked
out the door of the Irwin Center. To me, that was a cool
marketing thing. Yeah, that wasearly took. Yeah, the some of

(12:18):
the early Kiss shows I was tellingsomebody about this used to have have to
have fire trucks on standby. Really, yeah, just in case. Huh.
Yeah. They had so much pyro, you know, and it was
amazing you but you had to havea fire truck on standby. Wow.
John, when Garth played, didhe fly across to the stage or something?

(12:43):
When he played the Irwin Center,I don't recall that being part of
that. I remember seeing it inDallas, but I don't remember. But
he was always I mean, hewas the first couple of shows he did
there. That was of course,he was the hottest guy at the time
in music. And everybody wanted thosetickets. Yeah, they were like a
twenty five dollars ticket at the time, So they were and they were all

(13:07):
the same price, and it's sellingvery quickly. Yeahlly, twenty five dollars.
The only tickets had come back downat twenty five dollars. Now,
you know, even that'd be thetax and fees. Now you pay more
for a T shirt now than youwould for a ticket. That is so
true. Well, listen, Icannot believe that we've already gone over an
hour as we kind of shut thingsdown, no pun intended. But what

(13:31):
would you like to leave the podcastwith, Liz, Let's start with you.
Well, first of all, thankyou for having me. No,
thank you guys for coming out.I appreciate this, you know, listening
to everyone, I just I don'tknow that people really recognize what happens when

(13:56):
you go from like a basketball gameto a concert to a basketball game again.
But there's so much work that,so much work that happens overnight,
and it's just amazing that you know, the minute of basketball game is over
and you clear the building. You'vegot staff on hand ready to pick up

(14:18):
that court and move it out,clean the building. If you've got a
concert that next day, then you'vegot to and you have to build a
stage. You've got to do thatand just get the building ready and prepped
for the next show. And that'sthat's really so important to me that maybe

(14:41):
a lot of people don't recognize thatthere are so many people that do so
much work overnight, and Jimmy toldme that they are the heart and soul
of the operation. So and Inever forget got that, And when I

(15:01):
actually had to oversee operations, Irecognized how true is it? That was?
So that's what I'd like to leavewith today, John, I want
to go to Udex, but alsoI would like to know do you have
a time frame from when that bookis coming out? Well, I'm on

(15:22):
an episode nineteen right now. I'mprojecting out about thirty five episodes at least
for the first one. I haveconsulted with one of your own compadres,
Paul Wayland. He has published somebooks and so his name has come up
today and have a structure that Paul'sa great guy. Well, how's the

(15:43):
blanket coming alone? The what thequilt? All of the quilt? Well,
that's that's what Paul said, iswhen you want to try to figure
how to put this whole thing together, you throw all of your stuff down
the floor like a quilt, allof your chapters or your episodes, and
then you try to put it togetherin a way that makes sense. That's
what he called it. Yeah,when I look back on and it's not

(16:10):
far from one of this said becauseof the shows, the concerts, a
lot of people have those experiences.But what it took the organization. The
two people you have in the room, they're with you, not just people
I worked with, and you knowthem. You see him eight, ten,
twelve, fifteen hours a day sometimes, but they're lifelong friends. And

(16:30):
we made lifelong friends with the otherfolks that were there, made lifelong friends
with other people across the country fromthat experience, from being able to work
in a place like that. There'sonly about four hundred arenas and performing arts
centers of that size and nature,so you know people all across the country,
in fact, all over the world. And I know Jimmy became part

(16:51):
of a large organization as president ofam or IAVM as it's called now,
And you get to know people allover the world, and it's business.
And at the end of the day, what we were preparing, what we
made for people were memories, notjust for the audience, that we made
memories for ourselves. And if wecould have fun doing that, and you
can make a living doing it,and you get to know people that you

(17:12):
know for the rest of your life, and you can go into New York
and you can go to Miami orChicago. You're going to find somebody that
you knew or in the business.To me, that's uh, that's a
culture, and you you you wantto be part of a culture. And
that culture for me was at theRowin Center and I treasured that so much.

(17:36):
How about you, Jimmy, Well, thank you for doing this.
Thank you. This is uh,this is really really pretty neat and cool.
I like it. I got alot of people I like to think
and pay homies to. I wantto thank a guy by the name of

(18:02):
David de Wong who gave me anopportunity in this this industry before I even
knew it was an industry a longtime ago. And Dean Justice and Larry
Fontana and John Graham, all ofthese people have impacted my life in ways

(18:23):
that they don't even know it is. It is a really a close knit
family. Ah. I'm grateful foruh, my family and supporting me through
all of this, for for allthose years, and a grateful to the

(18:45):
university for having a foresight to builda place like that and for us to
have an opportunity to be a partof managing it and running it and being
the good stewards of it, notonly to build it, but the resources.
That's that's that's the kind of thingthat it's special and I remember,

(19:07):
we'll always remember. John eloquently said, it's memories that we make. We
don't only make them, we makethem for ourselves. I mean, there's
a lot of interpersonal things that havehappened over the years that you just treasure,
and a lot of people that youmeet and you become friends with all

(19:29):
over the world. It almost doesn'tseem like work until you look at your
watch and you've been there for fourteenor fifteen hours or years and your bodies
your body's going, hey, waita minute. But it's one of the
it's one of the highlights of mylife to have had the opportunity to be

(19:52):
with such a great group of peopleand have such great support during that time
and have a hell of a lotof fun doing it. Yeah. Yeah,
Well, I want to thank allthree of you for the great memories.
Liz, I think that you andI both graduated inside that building,
am I right? Yes, yeah, yeah, I forgot about that.
So, yeah, that's exactly thatwas the introverse. That's that's how we

(20:17):
So that's the connection the connection rightthere, many of us. Yeah,
well my children did. Yeah.Proud to be a Longhorn, Proud of
the Irwin Center. And I hopeyou enjoy these memories and listen. I'm
looking forward to reading John's book.I know I can't Chaffer's episodes, so
it's not a book. It's aquilt. It's a quilt. Thank you'

(20:40):
all both, Thank everybody, Thankyou, thank you, thank you,
Bob. It's great. Well that'sit. That wraps up our conversation of
memories of the Irwin Center. Specialthank you to John Graham and Jimmy Earle
and Liz Land and listen. Ifyou would like to hear more memories of
the Frank Urwin Center, I mean, my goodness, we all have memories
that place. The concert, it'sgraduations, adds and drops from me when

(21:03):
attending. Ut If you would liketo hear more memories there whin Center,
let us know, let me know. Of course, you can reach me
anytime. Bob Pickett at iHeartMedia dotcom. Thanks for listening.