2025 Design So Far

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Homer Modeling Show, brought to you by
Edge Construction Online. Edge Construction Company dot com. That's all
one word, Edge Construction Company dot com. Great website resource
to learn more about edge construction. Of course they've got
some links there, Facebook, Pinterest.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Also hows h o u z z. It's a great website.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
I've been thinking about doing some remodeling, gets some ideas
and on over to edge Construction Company dot com. You
can see recent projects on the website and also use
that link to house and you'll see even more projects there.
Really good place, a good place to get things started.
Joining us in studio this morning is Mike two Week,
owner of Edge Construction.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Mike, how you been great?

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Sean's good to see you.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
And uh mentioned number six O eight six three six
three three four three that number six three six.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Edge How long have you had that? I know we
talked to one that was a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
I stumbled over that that you've had that number for
a while now, and I think, what was it your
son that that figured out the because it's it's very
like three three four three is very it's a it's
it works out well, it does.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
And yeah, it works. I think it was.

Speaker 4 (01:02):
I think it was not me for sure, it was
one of the boys that the idea.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, it's a good number six of eight six three
six three three four three that number six three six edge.
I've been talking this week about remodeling kitchens, but we've
also got and this is part of kitchen remodels, any
type of remodel. You brought in scope, a scope of work.
And this is not a thin uh, you know, two
page front and back. This is I can't if you

(01:28):
can hear it on the air. There's a lot to this, Mike,
let's just really quick. There is, but I think it
all it when you get through it. Yeah, it makes sense.
But yeah, what we're talking about the scope. But if
you look up scopes online, they're like one page and.

Speaker 4 (01:40):
Yeah, you know they've got a few details in there,
you know maybe And uh, a scope is really to
me very important because it's it's just that that track.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
To run on. But it's also like a legal document.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
You can tie it to your contract and uh gives
a homeowner just going okay, if the scope says this,
why is why did this not happen? Or why did
this happen?

Speaker 2 (02:04):
All I need is these first two paragraphs.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
And it starts out and as the nice thing is
again Mike brought in, brought in a one from a
job a couple of years ago, and it starts out
with a nice overall products project summary that really kind
of lays out what what this and obviously gets into
much greater detail in the following pages. But those first
two paragraphs that are that are in these scope of

(02:29):
works really do tell a lot about about what's going
to be happening with a remodel they do.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
And that basic description.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
Is just what it says, and like you'll see a
similar like our kind of theory is our contract a contract,
portion of our agreement is fairly simple. It's going to
have a basic description like this like that, in fact,
that might be cut and pasted from the original contract
in a project summary, but it gives a basic idea

(03:00):
as to what it is. It says it takes care
of a little bit of work and says probably reiterates
we're gonna we're gonna buy by the codes we're gonna
uh build at least to industry standards and or the
manufacturers written instructions. So like it's there's there's lots of
rules that that happen with these things. I think in

(03:22):
terms of like you know, for homeowners, they probably thinking, well,
I don't need to know the manufacturer's rules or the
industry standards. And where a lot of times that comes
into play is maybe on a flooring choice. So I'm
gonna pick on the l vps and I'll be l
e t's a little bit the uh, the vinyl plank flooring.

(03:45):
We've had this product for quite a while now, and
we've learned its strengths and weaknesses. And on h there's
a lot of those l e ps that we won't
sell anymore because they they expand and contract too much.
And and if you look at the manufacturers information on
those products that haven't done so well, they might be

(04:05):
they might have a lot more rules. Okay, it's and
I think it's because of those failures, because they're saying, well, okay,
we started off saying you've got to have a quarter
inch around that whole floor for a texpanding contract. I've
noticed in the past years, so some of those manufacturers
will say, now you need a half inch around that floor,
and you're thinking, wow, how do I hide a half
inch gap around the outside of this floor. Well, there's

(04:27):
ways to do it, but that's still not a guarantee
that it's going to work. But it gives a manufacturer
recourse to say, well, you installed it wrong or and
you know, homeowers install a lot of this stuff themselves.
And I know it's not exciting to read those those
rules that to manufactures after these products, but we actually
read them, we try to understand them.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Electrical fixtures, that's.

Speaker 4 (04:49):
Another one where we're you know, have you bought light
bulbs lately violation.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
It's been you know what ever since we went over
to LEDs a couple of years ago. No.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
Yeah, Well, if you went out and wanted to refixture
your house, you know, I wanted to put up new
fixtures in your house, you're going to realize that there
are ten billion different light bulbs now and they are
not all created equal, They're not all meant for every
fixture there's there's and the only way to know what
to get now is either you know, get some help

(05:18):
from your supplier or somebody like us or electrician. But
it does take a little research to figure this stuff out.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
It's it's when we talk to about you know, the
changes as far as what the what the guidance is,
and you mentioned light bulbs as well, is you know,
I think about the regular screwing light bulbs, simple enough,
but then you start thinking about like light fixtures with
like like thin little pieces that have like an LED
strip maybe in them, or or or a circular and

(05:46):
getting those the right size.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
There's a lot.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
There's a lot to that, and when you've got to
go through the project summary, kind of understanding that that
what what's being installed is not only up to code,
but also meeting these these guidelines, that's important. The other
area two that I find I'm fascinating Mike is is
being very clear in the in the scope of work
of what's excluded, what are the what are the areas

(06:09):
that that we're not going to be doing, And that's
that's very important. It seems kind of like why would
you have to do that, but it really helps the
homeowner understand what exactly is going to be done with
the project summary, but also what's not part of this project.

Speaker 4 (06:25):
Well, and as you go through this design process, there's
you might have started off with the idea that some
of these areas out now that are excluded that might
have started off in the original scope. So like when
you're when you're going through design, you're going, Okay, we've
got to maybe we need to cut back somewhere. Okay,
we're going to cut back over here. So that's one
reason to have those exclusions. Another really practical reason is,

(06:49):
you know, the people that we send to your house
to do demo, we're part of that design process and
aren't going to have this memorized Okay, which stuff where
we stop? And if we if we don't have it
written down somewhere that they can find, right, they get
in bike trouble with the designers if they don't read

(07:09):
that and take out some flooring that they should have
left in or or demo a door that should have
been left in, or or some trim or whatever it is.
So that that needs to be written down for both parties.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Really and with that and with that project exclusions as well,
I mean we're with this in general. Is the scope
of work is this being for for the folks on
the ground at the at the project Are they referencing
this as their like?

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Is is this out there on location with them as well?

Speaker 4 (07:38):
It is very much on location. And uh, some of
it is uh, you know, our designers have put a
lot of effort into this scope, right because they went
through this long design process, and you want to kind
of legisplate at all. You want to you want to
have you want to answer all the questions in advance
in the scope of works.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
So if you don't do this, or if if.

Speaker 4 (08:00):
Our people don't refer back to the scope of work,
that means a lot of phone calls back to busy
designers going hey what about this?

Speaker 3 (08:07):
What about this?

Speaker 4 (08:08):
When the designer then says, hey, read your scope.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
It's in there.

Speaker 4 (08:13):
What There's times I go, I didn't see it in there,
and they're like, you know, two minutes later, going it's
right here on this page, and I'm going, okay, you
got me.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
So it is.

Speaker 4 (08:22):
It is referred to a lot, and there's there's there's
some things we're gonna get to you later on when
we when we and and I can explain what why
it's probably written in our scope and handle the way
it is, and it's it's because of a past problem.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
And we'll get into too, yeah, not only written, but
also pictures, which you think pictures, oh yeah, they really
are helpful too. So we'll get into that I do
want to ask you too about demolition, waste management. The
idea and I know a big thing and we probably
actually start talking about some of that right now, is
like waste management and like where this stuff that's created
during demolition, having a plan in place of how are

(08:58):
we going to get this from here to there? And
and in the meantime, where's it going to be stored?
Is it going to be on site off site? Those
type of things. Those are not little little things. These
are really important, vital and I'm noticing they do take
up a fair amount of the of the actual first
couple of pages talking specifically about waste management and demolition.

Speaker 4 (09:18):
Yeah, and and uh, you know, home owners a lot
of times will when we're in the design process, if
they're if they want to participate, or they they're you know,
they want to help with the budget, they'll ask you
can we demo stuff? Well, it's a complicated question, okay,
It's it's not like on TV where somebody hands somebody
a sledgehammer and you start taking off.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
If only it was.

Speaker 4 (09:40):
We should just build some walls in our shoulder, but
let people smash them apart. I mean, there's a lot
of a lot of ways to do this. So I'll
give you an example. So, uh, if we are demoing
a tub in a bathroom, Okay, and I I tell
u somebody that's newer to say, Okay, we're gonna demo

(10:02):
with the tub. We need to cut back the drywall
so we get the tub. About that all sounds very logical.
I'll give you a little trick that that we do
so that the corner where the where the wall meets
the ceiling is more work to rebuild in a drywall
fashion than if we If we make that cut three

(10:23):
inches down, now we preserve the corner. It's a much
easier fix. Okay, And this would be much easier fixed
for anybody. Corners and corners and dry are much tougher
to do, especially if you don't have the experience. Takes
a different set of tools and skill set. And so
just down wing in a really nice straight line a
few inches down is a way to to to sort

(10:47):
of save yourself a bunch of work later usually makes
no difference on the quality of the demo.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
If you read through.

Speaker 4 (10:57):
The demo on this job, it's going to talk about
temporarily disconnecting probably some ductwork, some electrical. Maybe we've got
a brace an upper floor to demo wall. So it's
demoing cabinets. Okay, that's easy, that's not really that much cost.

(11:18):
What happens after those cabinets come out? Are they going
to the dumpster, which means they've got to be knock
flat and put in the dumpster? Are they gonna Are
they gonna go to somebody else's house. Sometimes we find
good homes for these cabinets that come out if there's
any life left in them, or we take them to
someplace like the restore.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
So that's that all should.

Speaker 4 (11:35):
Be laid out in a demo plan, And a lot
of times when homeowners look over this demo plan, they'll go,
you know what, I think we're gonna staut of this one,
maybe get involved in some other way.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
I used to have that Hollywood view of demo is
like I'm like, oh, he's going there with the sledgehammer,
And having done the show with you for for a
number of years now, I've realized, never in a million
years am I going to be in charge or hand
any type of demo, Because that's a portant.

Speaker 4 (12:01):
Is going to say if you have a whole bunch
of tile floor and you really want to tear that out,
we are gonna let you. That's like one of the
worst jobs in construction.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Oh, that's that's good.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
That's good.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, if if they're very eager to let you do something. No,
there's a reason for.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
You to take that chimney down, no problem, No, I uh,
We're definitely gonna help you.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Let you know what you're talking this morning with Mike
two Week, owner of EDGE Construction online Edge Construction Company
dot com. That's all one word, Edge Construction Company dot com.
Top number six the way six three six three three
four three that number six three six edge. We talk demolition.
What about the waste management and dealing with everything that.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Is created there?

Speaker 1 (12:42):
There's got to be there absolutely has to be a
plan in place for that.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
Doesn't there there does So. I routinely see work happening
around town.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
We're a.

Speaker 4 (12:54):
Contractor, will park a big dumpster in somebody's front yard
for three months or so six months or something, and
I think, Okay, that's not something I want to do.
We want to we want to be able to hand
that handle that waste in the first uh, for the
first go around, like maybe up to drywall a lot
of times if we're doing if we're doing a kitchen

(13:15):
or a bathroom model, we might have a dumpster there
for one or two days, because after that point, it's
not like something's going in it every day. It's it's
a lot of times we'll we'll bring in, say a
dump trailer, if we need. If we got a heavy day,
we're gonna need to get a bunch of stuff out
of there. I think it's kind of tacky to leave
that dumpster out there. I think it's like, you know,

(13:37):
it's messy, it gets through a windy stuff can blow
out of there. Neighbors get you know, feisty about that.
If we're working downtown, by the way, there's a lot
of jobs where we can't even have a dumpster. There's
just no place to put it. These smaller houses kind
of in the isthmus there, there's not much parking much less,
you know, getting a three permit to put a dumpster
on again, you know, you you don't want to. You

(14:00):
don't want to make enemies of your neighbors. We're trying
not to ruin the system down there for parking as
much as we can, even though we're gonna have some
some vans and trucks down there. But oh, I was
going to mention too on the demo side, probably about
half of the cost the budget number on demo is
getting rid of the way. So it's dumpster costs, which

(14:22):
I don't know if you've noticed or got a dumpster lately,
that that has gone up quite a bit. We need them,
and I understand it. I mean we don't. We can't
tell them what to charge us, but it's got to
be a bigger budget number, so that's in there, or
or hauling stuff away, you know, for homeowner to take
out a kitchen and go, Okay, I want to get

(14:42):
this thing over to habitat, you got to have a
truck and trailer or vans. There's some way to get
that over. And the horsepower, I mean, some of these
things are pretty heavy, and so like I said before
that demo.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
Is demo is not really the TV version very often.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
And also where ultimately, where where to go with it?

Speaker 1 (15:00):
I know I'm talking with people doing just cleanups like
around town, and like I'm like, we pick up all
these garbage, where do you go with those garbage bags?

Speaker 2 (15:09):
And that's a big thing too.

Speaker 4 (15:10):
It is you know, there's other things too in there,
like getting rid of old appliances. It's not like you
can just put them on the curb anymore and have
somebody pick them up.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
I don't think. If it is, we were.

Speaker 4 (15:22):
Not aware of it. There are appliance recyclers in town.
We know that process. We can get them there. We
actually have somebody that comes to our shop. We sort
of pile up, for lack of a better term, we
make a pile of metal and probably about once a week.

Speaker 3 (15:37):
Actually they were there a couple of.

Speaker 4 (15:39):
Days ago picking up load of metal and it gets recycled,
it gets handled.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
So we're trying to.

Speaker 4 (15:45):
Keep the things out of the out of the town
dump that we can.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
There's obviously a lot of things. Oh.

Speaker 4 (15:52):
By the way, construction waste generally gets recycled even at
the dump. So if our stuff, if we have a
dumb gets picked up on our model site, it's going
to the dump. They have a huge it's kind of interesting, actually,
they have a huge building out there that that we
dump in.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Uh. It gets loaded on.

Speaker 4 (16:10):
A conveyor and ground up and and then somehow get
separated with with magnets and blowers and blah blah blah
into a few different products, and and so a lot
of that stuff does get recycled. It doesn't just get
buried out.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
There are the guys using like those rubber made those
roughneck uh trash cans, like load things up on site
and bring them to their truck.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
We do we do that, you know.

Speaker 4 (16:33):
They're like I said, Uh, we want to make sure
that our if if we bring a plumber in, we've
got to have a place for them to We've got
to have a plan to do with the garbage from
from when we get into the finishes. For sure, we
just bring stuff back. I mean, our guys are are
leaving our shop in the morning and and and coming
back every night.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
It's it's fairly easy as.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
Long as they stand on top of it, uh to
have a clean job site and not have the dumpster
and and just deal with the trash every day. So
there's quite a bit of time actually figured into a
modeling budget for cleanup and getting rid of the trash.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
For people that don't don't know. By the way, we
spent probably half hour before the show talking about the
importance of keeping things clean.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
It is.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
If you had a chance to talk to Mike about
about techniques and ways to. Obviously the carpentry is something
he'll definitely give you an an expert view on. But
also keeping things clean and neat is is a really
important thing.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
And neither of us like a mess. Show. Now we
learned something about show everything.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yes we do. It's a great day.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
If you haven't checked out the website recently, head on
over edge Construction Company dot com. All one word edge
Construction Company dot com. Speaking of neat and clean. That
website is very very user friendly and really really convenient
to check out the projects at Edge Construction Company. Of
course got the website Edge Construction Company dot comp. Number
six so eight six three six three three four three
that number six three six Edge.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
We'll talk more scope of work.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
We will do that next as the Homer Modeling Show
with Edge Construction continues right here on thirteen ten Dollibu
iv I. This is the Homer Modeling Show brought you
by Edge Construction, the website Edge Construction Company dot com.
All one word Edge Construction Company dot comic off number
six the way six three six three three four three
that number six three six Edge talking about scope of work,

(18:13):
and Mike brought in a sample from a job they'd
done a couple of years ago kind of walking through it,
and I didn't think we'd talk as much demolition as
we did. But it's it's a fascinating part of the process,
and it's actually obviously a very important part of the process.
There's a lot more to it though than I ever
thought of. And one of the things too, I hadn't
thought of is like, let's say that there are things

(18:35):
that want to be kept, like there maybe there's a
ceiling fan, or there's a particular fixture that I either
want to repurpose or I want to as part of
the remodel, I want to reinstall after as part.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Of the new remodel.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
It gets into detail here about like where, like who
it's going to be kept and preserved like those type
of things, and what to keep.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
It's spelled out here as well a little sup.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
Where we're going to put it, yes, right right?

Speaker 4 (19:03):
So, uh, we we have to do that stuff because
it's so when you get in demo mode, when the
when the the gang gets in demo mode and hasn't
read this like this one looked like they had maybe
bought a new toilet in the last years before we
do this or like, hey, we don't really need any
to well, it means we've got to put it somewhere

(19:23):
where it's not going to get wrecked, it's not gonna
be in the way, and we're gonna have to remember
that that is going back to make sure all parts
are there. Same with this one had a vanity and
a and you mentioned a ceiling fan, and so I
don't know what it is with the ceiling fans. It
seems like when we go in, they're they're never in
the right location. Like, uh, they were built and a

(19:45):
builder said, Okay, we think the dining room table is
going to go here, and maybe they got a smaller
table or a bigger table or put it in a
little different spot. And so a lot of times we're
moving those it's it sounds worse than it. It's not
really that big a deal. We're so used to doing
it that we want it to look right and so
but yeah, those those pieces and parts and and a
lot of times that that appliances can fall in the

(20:06):
same category if we're preserving Uh, I don't know, it
could be any it could be a fridge and a
dishwasher or so we've got to be able to put
that stuff somewhere where it's not going to get wrecked.
Our people also need to take good pictures of this
so that we know that.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
Throughout the process.

Speaker 4 (20:24):
Uh, you know, if there was damage or if they
had a scratch of a dent on it before we start.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
Uh we didn't. We didn't actually put that dent in there.
It was there.

Speaker 4 (20:31):
We can show that and it's amazing what you can
what you can do there with your cell phone camera.
And we we have actually our scheduling program, which it's
another way for our people to look at the scope
because we can post files on there and plans so
they can they can put pictures on there. They and
go like, okay, we're going to get some in progress pictures.
And that's where a lot of that stuff comes from.

(20:52):
That shows up on the website or on How's that shows,
you know, how the how the cake was baked.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
You know the I get what's funny, and I get
I've got to bet you've seen a million of these.
I've seen YouTube videos of it. Ceiling fans. You're mentioning
how they're always in the wrong place. It feels like
that's one of those projects that people think they can
do themselves, and they'll have like just like a regular
lamp and like, oh, we'll just put a ceiling fan
up there, and not realizing those darn things are heavy,
and over time they go and I've seen video of

(21:22):
them just dropping down. I've got to guess a number
of And we're going to talk rough carpentry and and
and a future segment, but I've got to guess more
than a couple of times you guys have removed a
ceiling fan only to find out that had you guys
not removed it sooner or later, it was going to
remove itself.

Speaker 4 (21:36):
Yes, And uh, and I don't know why this is
something that you know, I've been around this for a
long time, haven't seen Dale. We have a master electrician, Dail.
He's on our on our part of Edge, and he
will show me things that where they were wired wrong
but working. Oh and that happens more often, I think.

(21:57):
And and now as you get to there's there's progressions
of all these products. So like we've got you know,
big box store version, which is not always the best.
I mean, for if you ask for a master electrician,
they're gonna go, well, I can wire it. It's a
much different experience than wiring something from one of the
lighting stores. Now you're gonna you're gonna pay more, but

(22:19):
you're getting a better fixture. I know, it's all about
the end product. We can still make that look good.
It's not when we do it all the time. It's
just if you're a homeowner thinking, well, this looks easy,
and sometimes maybe it is. I don't know, but but
I think there's more to it sometimes than you think.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
I think, Yeah, I think that's an too.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
Unfortunately, we often learned the hard way that there is
more to it. If you if you've got a ceiling
fan that you installed and it has low and high,
but that medium never comes on, there's probably something with
the wiring. And I know somebody who had that problem
and you can ignore it. You know that's not happening. Yeah,
I hear electriccities completely fun. No. As we talked this
morning with Mike Twog, owner of Edge Construction, we'll talk

(23:00):
about ways to make was part of the remodeling project,
ways to make things more more sturdy and of course
install them properly. We'll get into rough carpentry. We'll also
talk about which is an area that you may not
think a lot about is moisture and moisture in the
wrong spot is a bad, bad thing. We'll talk about
that part. Mechanicals and other things have worked through a
scope of work with Edge Construction. Don't get me a

(23:21):
been to the website recently. Head on over their Edge
Construction Company dot com. It's all one word at Edge
Construction Company dot com. Telph number six oh eight six
three six three three four three that number six three
six Edge.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Of course, Edge.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Construction brings you the Homer Modeling show right here on
thirteen ten doubleu ib A. This is the home remodeling
show brought to you by Edge Construction online. Edge Construction
Company dot com. It's all one word Edge Construction Company
dot com. There're toep number six O eight six three
six three three four three that number six three six
Edge talking this week about scope of work and where
that fits into a remodel and what an important document

(23:54):
this is. And next couple things they're probably going to
touch on relatively quickly Mike and roughcarpentry. This is not
the most glamorous part of modeling, but this kind of
the stuff that holds it all together, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
It is?

Speaker 4 (24:08):
And if you're you know, it becomes We put some
general things in this one because we always put blocking
for cabinets or replace damage materials, because it's more for
a homeowner, because if you watch TV and there's been
a leak in the past, and that's a chance for
the builder come and go, hey, we found a problem

(24:28):
and it's going to cost more money. Well, it's an
assurance basically that if we find damage material we generally
can tell there's clues to this before we even start,
and so we know we're going to replace that stuff
and our people never have to call me and go,
I found a problem.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
Should I fix it? It's like yes, the answer is yes,
fix it.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Did you ever find out by the way you talk
about blocking, do you ever find cabinets that were not
we're hung on walls that didn't have proper on.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
The other side?

Speaker 4 (24:57):
Yeah, you know, there are a lot of things that happened. Uh,
in the the last i'd say seventeen years whatever, you know,
the magic number was we're you know, we have the flippers, right, Uh,
a lot of people were flipping houses that weren't really
qualified and and the flippers' mentality for for a lot
of people is just turn and burn right, we're gonna

(25:19):
throw stuff up and then uh, and then it's really
basically the next person's problem. And so we routinely find
cabinets that were just screwed to drywall, not to stuzzs.
We're obviously no blocking. I was held up for a
while and and maybe maybe maybe didn't hold up. Maybe
that's why we got to call it. I don't remember,
but yeah, it's it's lots of ways to go wrong there.

(25:41):
And again there's there's it's a sliding scale of how
the right way to do things right. You ideally, when
you're hanging cabinets, you always want to be into something
really structural, and h if we peel the wall apart,
we know we're hanging cabinets, we know we we know
where we need blocking. We know we're where we've got
to have some them structural to tie into.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
I think I've told you the story before. But the
house we rented before we bought our house, it was
a it was a newer it was like a four
plex and.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Nice enough place.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
But the cupboard above the refrigerator I had put stuff
my Pizazz pizza oven, which was one of the greatest
inventions ever I remember I set it up in there
and all of a sudden, like the cabinet went and.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
Fell off, it ripped.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
They had simply screwed right through the through the back
like cardboardy picture of wood.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
They just like, what the heck is?

Speaker 4 (26:34):
Well, you know how how cabinets are?

Speaker 2 (26:38):
Are they cleats or how do those get hung?

Speaker 3 (26:40):
Like?

Speaker 2 (26:40):
What? U?

Speaker 4 (26:43):
The boy?

Speaker 3 (26:45):
The rabbit hole is the better?

Speaker 4 (26:48):
You know? You know, if for for a good installer,
you can take kind of the lower end of the
scale of cabinets and solid and and not have too
many problems, it's going to look pretty good. Uh now
at last as long as a really good cabinet.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
No, it's not going to But.

Speaker 4 (27:04):
As you slide up the scale like and you have
like we've been doing this a long time and cabinets
we buy, we want we want a cleat, right, we
want to built in cleat in that cabinet so it
doubles or triples up the back with of the material
in the back of that cabinet. So we're screwing through
that cleat to the to the structural part of the
wall to a stud or a block. And there's some

(27:26):
sketchy thing, I mean, like Okay, you're you think about
what you're doing, right, You're you're putting a Most cabinets.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
Are particle board.

Speaker 4 (27:34):
I don't really like that their particle board is heavy
without even putting something in there.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (27:41):
Most people don't realize that apply with cabinet. Okay, it's
it's apply. It is a better product, but it's also
about half the weight. So and my mind is stronger,
better hands, moisture better. You know, over the years, over
a twenty year lifespan or thirty year lifestan or longer
of cabinets, it's going to take on moisture in the summer,
it's gonna shed it in the winter. Uh. Plywood, I

(28:03):
think is much more stable product. So yeah, we want
all those things. If I had a choice of cabinet
to buy, I want great cleanings, you know in the
back of it to attach to the wall. I want
a nice strong cabinet. I want it as strong as
it can be.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (28:16):
Not not a super heavy cabinet that its own weight
is going to cause a problem.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
Uh. So there are there are those things to think about.

Speaker 4 (28:24):
Talking this morning, I can't withstand the possess which do
you still have?

Speaker 3 (28:28):
This?

Speaker 1 (28:28):
By the way, I do you still have one? That
is when when my wife is away. That's how mad
and I make she for some reason, I don't. I
think it's a brilliant invention. She seems to have some
type of adversarial relationship with it, like there is a
chance I'll check the cupboard and she may have thrown
it out on me.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
But I think.

Speaker 4 (28:45):
The pizza evan knows she doesn't like it exactly.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
There'shing you mentioned moisture, by the way, and uh, and
it is kitchens, bathrooms. I think we think a lot
about about moisture in that, but in general, moisture is
not any room in your house, not your friend, is it.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
It's not?

Speaker 4 (29:02):
And uh, you know, okay, a bath. Everybody knows that
there can be moisture problems, right, You've got sort of
connection points in this bath where a toilet can. In
a real hot summer with one hundred percent amidity, you
see moisture forming on the outside of the toilet. A

(29:22):
lot of times that stuff is rolling down into your
floor system and weakening the floor. And pretty common fix
is when you when you peel apart the floor on
a bath that's been in for a while, you're gonna
find some rot around where the toilet was, in front
of the in front of the tub, You're going to
find some rot because if your kids are anything like
my grandkids, it's party time.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
When you get in there.

Speaker 4 (29:44):
Yeah, there's water kind of going all over and I
don't care what system you have to stop it.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (29:50):
I think we do a lot better now with the
tile floors because we actually have a membrane underneath there
and we try to waterproof it as much as we can.
It doesn't mean you can have three inches of water
or not do anything about it, you know, and not
have a problem. But you know that there's always an
end of that tiel, right, and if if water makes
it out to the edge of the wall and gets
underneath and into the floor system and even just seeps places,

(30:11):
it causes a problem. There's another way to have a
water problem, and that is from basically vapor that comes
in from the outside of your house. And and that
is another rabbit hole. When we have a real cold
winter like we've had some some uh this one, I
think we had some twenty blow days. Generally warm moves

(30:32):
towards cold, but when it gets blow zero, cold starts
to push push back and comes inside the house, where
warm and cold meat you can have moisture form. The
code says that when you build these houses, you're supposed
to have a plastic sheet on the inside, which in
my mind is okay. It makes sense to a lot

(30:53):
of people because of air infiltration, Like we don't want
air rushing.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
Into the house.

Speaker 4 (30:57):
That causes other problems. But uh, that plastic sheet can
trap that moisture in there. And now this this house
has no place to dry out. So sometimes we tear
apart walls. We find that kind of stuff. How do
we fix it? Well, first off, when we work on
your house and we put the plastic up on the inside.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
There's a super easy fix here.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
It's a product called membrane, like your brain in your head,
membrane has a variable permeability.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Am I going? Am I going? Too deep down?

Speaker 2 (31:26):
The little you're getting there? But no, I'm curious, So
what is so?

Speaker 4 (31:28):
What? So?

Speaker 3 (31:29):
What?

Speaker 1 (31:29):
What?

Speaker 3 (31:29):
The theory is? Right? Uh?

Speaker 4 (31:31):
If you're if you get moisture in the wall from
vapor or anything else, Uh it it it opens up. Okay,
and let's kind of air move back and forth in
there and you walk, You're you're walking dry out when
when they're when it's really drying there that closes right
up and stops all the air infiltration. So it's a
pretty cool product, not very expensive, uh, and it's an
easy fix.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
What what's interesting too, is we talk about these these
different steps of the scope of work.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Is having that stuff included.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
Is like, well, where is exactly is you know when
it comes to some of that some of the insulation
and uh and moisture barriers, where's that stuff going to go?
And what to expect The other area too, Mike, that
is that is very very important and maybe not always
thought about. Is a term that that we probably bring
up every week on the show, which is mechanicals because

(32:19):
they're an important part of of everything that you're remodeling.
We talk mechanicals, we're kind of talking about the things
that make the stuff go electrical heating, water, sewage, all
that stuff.

Speaker 4 (32:30):
Yeah, it's a it's a lot of things you can't see.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
Yeah. Uh. So there's there's this one.

Speaker 4 (32:40):
This one details what the panel looks like, which is
we're an electrical contractor, so we're worried about that.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (32:45):
If we come in and we're going to do a
kitchen that's over like ten years old, believe it or not.
The codes are different back then, and we've got to update.
We've got to bring things up to snuff, or the
inspectors will be.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
Mad at us.

Speaker 4 (32:57):
So like, uh, it generally means adding two, three, four
new circuits to that kitchen. Now things need dedicated circuits.
I mean it means like if we're gonna if we're
gonna serve a a microwave or or whatever, it's gonna
be a fridgeer, dishwasher. We want a home run. We
want to we want one while you're going back, we don't.
We don't want a bunch of other things coming.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
Off of that.

Speaker 4 (33:20):
And there's it's really detailed in the code on how
you're supposed to treat those things. So we're gonna have
some general things in there, but we we want all
of the little jobs that they do. So if you
look at our scope, a lot of it is gonna
be dealing with the mechanical side of things. It's gonna
it's gonna list all the all those little jobs that
we have to do.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
So yeah, you av it's pages.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
I mean we're talking pages, but it's and it's it's
every little detail, and it's it's it's actually, you know,
you start going through it, you're like, oh, I the
USB port location. I mean that's it's it gets it
gets really really deep in that.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
And do you have any usbl let's And I do.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
I think I I I it's probably been ten years,
maybe because you had write you and I were talking.
I don't think we talked on the show about it,
but you would talk to me about a particular product,
and I think I ordered them that day, and yeah,
I've had them every is that that those are You
guys do a lot of like to the point that
it's almost standard.

Speaker 4 (34:14):
It it's become a standard, right there are places in
a kitchen like that you can't put them because of code,
but they work great. I actually think it's a better
way to charge your stuff than using the charger that
they send you. Some of those charges they send you
will overcharge and heat up your your your phone or
your computer. So if you can use the SBO loveser,
that tech has really come a long way and it

(34:36):
really does a great job.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
Oh really, it's that's it.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
They look cool too, by the way, it looks very
you know, it's got a very modern look to it
like that. Overly you think of those bricks, they just
look kind of as like this a nice little yeah.

Speaker 4 (34:47):
Oh, speaking of which, by the way, we had a
new thing to show up in our showroom.

Speaker 3 (34:51):
It's it's uh.

Speaker 4 (34:52):
I saw it in the shows maybe a year ago
or two years ago, and it's where you can charge
through your countertop.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
Oh you have I talked about this.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Don't know if we talked about it on the show.
We've talked about it off everything. Yeah, let's talk about.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
So the theory is in a in a stone countertop.
That's why.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
That's how we can show it. They We router out
a section of the countertop, like maybe an eight by
ten or six x ten in space, and a charging
system gets mounted on the bottom side of that and
you can lay anything out of anything rechargeable on it,
from a laptop to your phones, any anything in this

(35:30):
area and it will it will charge through the countertop.
So it's no cords, no not to look at that.
You can actually to find it. It's not like you
even need it marked out. You slide your phone across
when it senses that it'll you can have it light
up underneath it. Just slide up to perimeter and you
can have different colors. It's super cool, super cool thing,

(35:51):
and I think we're starting to offer it right now.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
I can see why folks are definitely want to talk
about that. Speaking of really cool things that they can
do at Edge Construction, but thinking about doing a Kitchener model,
Homer model, any space. They'd love to talk with you
at Edge Construction some really really cool stuff. Ort telf
number six O eight six three six three three four three.
That's six three six Edge. You learn more online Edge
Construction Company dot com. That's Edge Construction Company dot com.

(36:15):
We talked about some of the pretty pictures that are
included in the scope work. We get the details on
those for Mike next. As the Homer Modeling Show with
Edge Construction continues here on thirteen ten Wuiva. This is
the home Modeling Show brought to you by Edge Construction Online.
Edge Construction Company dot com. That's all one word Edge
Construction Company dot Com. Telephe number six O eight six
three six three three four three that number six three

(36:36):
six Edge and Mike. We're only a few pages into
the scope of work. This may be something we're gonna
need to bring back a couple more times. Because we've
talked about kind of the the bus. All of this
is kind of part of the business side of it,
but the really detailed business of it. This stuff here
and I start looking at we get into some of
the pictures and kind of showing what the products are

(36:57):
that are going to be installed. And aside from being
like super detailed down to like part numbers and that
like layout patterns and things, there's really no room for error.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
And it's very very clear what you're putting in.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
I'm guessing this is very intentionally overly detailed for very
good reason, isn't.

Speaker 3 (37:16):
It It is?

Speaker 4 (37:17):
And you know, here's I'll give you a great example.
So on the first page of the where we get
into the pictures, we're talking about the inside. We're talking
about intre your doors and door hardware. And we just
had a job recently where okay, the doors came and
they were right, the door handles were right. And this

(37:38):
one shows a color picture a brush, a nickel lever doorknob,
and one of our guys calls up and said, you know,
are the hinges came in black? And it's obvious that's wrong.
And so because they could look at the scope, they
figured it out. Now our supplier had the scope too,

(38:00):
and they've made a little mistake, and there's you know,
but it's not it's as long as we catch the mistake. Really,
it's it's really embarrassing if you're a modeler and you
and the homeowner brings it up at the very oll, right,
because now we've got to order a new product.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
You know, there's a process. So it's it's uh.

Speaker 4 (38:17):
All the trim colors and styles and color pictures. It's
when this stuff is getting loaded up at a supplier
and put it on a truck and brought out. You know,
it's sort of a everybody's sort of disconnected, right, Like
nobody has a if you're a spplier, you don't have
a view of the whole job. And so like if
you grab the wrong stack of trim, you're you know,

(38:38):
it can happen. So we don't want our people installing
that wrong stack at trim. Now we've got triple the
work to get back to zero. So and also I
think for a homeowner, if if you're buying something right
and all you've got is that general description of what
the job is, you don't have all those pieces and
parts spelled out. I don't know how comfortable I would

(39:00):
be being in that position and not being able to
say this is exactly what I'm getting. I looked at
a contract of a friend of mine out of the area,
and we you know, it's too far for us to
do the work. But they said, well we're getting I said, well,
what kind of windows are you getting? Well, Anderson's, I said, wallow,
what your contract doesn't tell me what what style of Anderson.

(39:22):
There's Anderson one hundreds, There's Anderson four hundreds, there's there's
you know, you can go up from there, you can
go to triple panes. I'll check back. Well, my you know,
Ramler says, they're Anderson four hunters. Says, well, ye, he
said that, but it's not in your contract. So if
I was you, I would just have them make a
note in your contract, because then if the wrong thing
shows up, everybody knows.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
It's it's interesting that it's interesting when you mentioned that too,
is because like you go down to like part numbers
and that stuff. The other thing too that I just
kind of and this is this is day to day
for you. But I guess something I'd never thought about
is which way is the door? Open like I would
never think that, but literally it's spelled out in here
which left hand, right hand is bypassed door by the way,

(40:04):
What does that mean?

Speaker 4 (40:05):
Yeah, it's a closet door where the where they're on
hardware that's kind of sliding up behind each other.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah, for people that don't know.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
If you work with Mike, when you get your scope
of work and you have an a door, install it.
It'll say exactly not just the size and everything, it'll
also tell you which way the door is going to open.
And that's the type of detail we're talking about it. Yeah,
that is, that is and that's you mentioned some of
the pictures as well. And not only is it good
to it gives you a reference to to verify, not
just because it happens. Sometimes you'll open a box it'll

(40:32):
say it's one thing you open up and you're like,
this is the right picture, and yeah, it.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Was packaged strong.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
The other think it gives is like the layout for
things like like flooring tile kind of how those tiles
are going to be placed. And that's got to be
for for your tile guys specifically. It's got to be
a great thing because there's no question about what are
these things supposed to look like because again with a tile,
you can do different different.

Speaker 4 (40:58):
You can and it's really it'd be a huge Sometimes
we may wait a while for these products to some
of those tiles. We might have waited six weeks to
get those those tiles, and we, uh, so what would
be We have a straight lay, which is where they are,
stack lay where they're all the joints slide up. We've

(41:18):
got bricklay, which is where where it sort of splits.
We have one we called thirds where that's the joint
staggers a third of the length of the tile. So
all that stuff should be laid out on there. It's
so easy to make a mistake, like like you were saying.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
Yeah, And.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
As we go through this, are people sometimes very surprised
when they see this. I know, obviously you guys at
edge construction talk quite a bit with folks and kind
of go over the stuff.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
But I know you and I have talked about this before.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
I was surprised and I actually started to dig into
this is just how how much goes into it. Are
people generally surprised by the amount of detail that are in.

Speaker 4 (41:53):
These I'm not sure. I think they probably are a
little bit. But what I think from a Homer standpoint,
you're you're just thinking that, Okay, I went into business.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
With these people.

Speaker 4 (42:02):
I trust that they're going to get it right, and
when it goes wrong, then it's time to look back and.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Go Okay, I thought we talked about this.

Speaker 4 (42:10):
So I think that's where the real appreciation for the
scope comes, because this should be I think it's a
level of comfort for a home owner. I hope it
is because you're signing a contract and whether it's ten
grand or one hundred thousand dollars, it's a lot of money,
and so you want to get it right the first time.
You don't want I see lots of jobs where later

(42:33):
on people are going, well this isn't really what I ordered,
but it wasn't too bad, you know, it's not too
far off, and we ended up accepting it, or or
maybe the maybe the remoler offered him something in lieu
of changing it, because it's so much, so painful to
change it, and so we're trying to trying to stop
all those problems before they happen.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
That's yeah, changing is no is not is no walk
in the park. That's for you want to get it right.
And that's the importance is we talked with Mike about
the plan, the design and the process. It's a really
good day to get in talking to that Edge Construction,
or head on over to the website Edgeconstruction Company dot
com dolin number six so eight six three six three
three four three that number six three six edge. Of course,
Edge Construction brings you the Homer Modeling Show here on

(43:12):
thirteen ten Wibi