The Power of Diversification

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:22):
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their telephone number six so eight four four two five
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(01:04):
their number six oh eight four four two five six
three seven and joining us this week CJ Class along
with Josh Stirling.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
CJ.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
How are you doing this morning?

Speaker 2 (01:13):
I'm doing great. Sean, how are you?

Speaker 1 (01:14):
I'm doing great? Also, great to talk with you, Josh,
welcome back to the program. Good to talk to you
as well.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
Good morning, Sean, good to be back.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
And we've we've got an exciting conversation ahead with CJ
and Josh. We're gonna be talking about really important topic
which is diversification, and we're going to get into a
lot of the details about and why it's so important
to be diversified with CJ and Josh. We'll do that
this morning on the program. Don't forget, as mentioned, phone
lines are open if you've got a question six oh
eight three two one thirteen ten. That's six oh eight

(01:44):
three two one thirteen ten. Our cool feature of the
program is the Class Quiz Question Week. Your chance to
win a fantastic prize this week, no exception, our friends
from Class Financial have provided a twenty five dollars gift
card to Jersey Mike's for the winner of the class
quiz question leak you'll tell it. We'll tell you all
the detail else on how you can win a little
bit later on in the program. Little tip, doell listen
closely oftentimes bolt the question and answer come up during

(02:06):
the program. And before we start talking diversification, let's actually
look back to last week's program CJ and get the
question answer to last week's show.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, well, thanks everyone for listening to the show on
a weekly basis. We hope you enjoy it and certainly
that you are learning things along the way. And we
do this little fun coloss Quist question of the week,
and we did one last week, and congratulations to our
winner from last week. It was actually Donna of Madison,
and she correctly answered the following true or false question.

(02:36):
In twenty twenty five, we will see the highest number
of Americans reaching the traditional retirement age of sixty five.
We asked was that true or false? And Donna was
correct in saying that is true. In twenty twenty five,
an estimated four point one to four point two million
Americans will be reaching the age of sixty five.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
Pretty crazy, Wow, that is really cool. And we talked
quite a bit in depth. If you missed any part
of that program, don't think you can always listen back
at Cossfinancial dot Com. That's COSS k l a as
Financial dot Com. As mentioned today, we're going to be
talking about a critical topic for every investor in that
of course, is diversification. And if you've been, of course
watching the markets this year, you probably heard the news

(03:17):
of some sharp jobs. CJ and Josh, let's kind of
get into this. What can you tell us about the
recent market noise and how this relates to diversification.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, that's right, Sean. So there's been quite a bit
of a reaction in the markets here recently, well, I
should say just general volatility in the markets. Well, whether
it be linked to tariffs or now. I know this
morning we have the tax bill that passed the House
and I think it needs to go into the Senate now.
But this a lot of this just causes uncertainty and volatility,
and sometimes that uncertainty is good. We come to find

(03:50):
out that whether it be a tax bill or something
like that increases the expectation of corporate profits and other cases,
like in the case of tariffs, it was bad and
in the market dropped right away but we're going to
be talking today about when when we run into situations
like this and when we feel the market's trading, we
can often feel powerless, and it can make people feel

(04:12):
almost like investing is gambling. And that's dangerous because as
soon as you get in your brain the idea that
investing in the markets is like gambling at a casino,
you can quickly convince yourself that it's a bad idea, right,
because for those who don't know, gambling a lot is
a bad idea. And so we're really here to talk
about no, no, no, no, you aren't powerless against this. And

(04:34):
so there's a concept of personal risk tolerance. There's a
concept of financial capabilities and risk tolerance. And then what
Josh is really here to talk today to us today
about is one of the greatest ways to mitigate that
risk of uncertainty and the volatility in the markets is
through diversification. So for those who don't know, I mean
on the show Malia Quavis and I did this show

(04:54):
for the better part of a decade. Malia has kind
of slowly shifted out, and now Eric Schwartz, the one
who is kind of doing it with me on a
weekly basis for the most part, but every once in
a while we love digging into the well of the experience,
knowledge and talent of our team, and that is why
Josh is on today. Josh is a chartered financial analyst.
He is also our chief investment officer here at Class Financial.

(05:18):
He and his team oversee about seven hundred million dollars
of client assets and portfolio management, security selection, rebalancing, all
of that. So he is a wealth of knowledge and information.
But Josh, would you just kind of help us understand
what's going on here with the markets recently and what
insights do you have?

Speaker 3 (05:37):
Yeah, thanks, c Jay and I agree. At the start
of the year, we saw a bit of turbulence as
the US stock markets went through kind of a volatile
time period, and we've been discussing this with clients. We
frequently remind them that their portfolios are not just invested
in the S and P five hundred, but are instead
fully diversified. And I mean at the beginning of the year,

(05:59):
you'd see all these headlin come out about the different
news pieces that CJ was talking about, and then those
would be followed by, oh, the Nasdaq is down a
three percent today, four percent today five percent, and we
had some of the most biggest drops in the market
in a one day time period, and then the very
next day you'd see it shoot right back up. And

(06:20):
this volatility just creates uncertainty not only for the markets,
but for individuals who are investing their money for their retirements.
I mean, you look into your four o one K
and you're worried that it's going to drop because the
news is telling you that it's going to be down.
But something really interesting happened this year, and it's really

(06:40):
about the power of diversification. These headlines are talking about
how down everything's going to be, but then you actually
you go look at your four oh one K, or
you call class financial, you take a look at what
your portfolio has been doing here to day, you might
be a little surprised. So, for example, during the first
four month period start to twenty twenty five, while the

(07:01):
SMP five hundred was down five percent, one of our
most popular portfolios that we have, which holds sixty percent
globally diversified equities and then forty percent fixed income, that
was actually up about one percent. And when we're talking
to individuals, they're shocked by that news because that's not

(07:21):
what they've been told, and it's really really helpful to
kind of have that power of diversification there. I mean,
even looking back during the worst time period that we
could pick out out of that four month time period
to start the year, the diversified portfolio at its worst
was only down five percent. We compare that to the
S and P five hundred, it was down nearly fifteen percent.

(07:45):
So we're going to dig into why this works, why
we believe in the power of diversification, as we kind
of dig in here exactly.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, and as Josh is saying, diversification is one of
the most powerful tools in investing. As a matter of fact,
some people in finance say it's the only free lunch
in investing. But I will just warn you for as
much as that is a hard truth, a hard fact,
it is just one of the most powerful tools in investing.
Is this idea of diversification. The number of articles that

(08:17):
I read that try to convince investors that that is
not true is mind boggling. You'll hear articles like the
death of the sixty forty, why the sixty forty doesn't
work anymore, and why bonds are a terrible investment and listen,
if you're deep into the academic side of this business,
like Josh and I are, you can understand the subtleties

(08:37):
of what people are getting at here. Right. If you're
a long term investor, stocks are going to win the
day over almost any ten year rolling time frame period.
End of story. But listen, most people aren't just long
term investors. They need some short term money. And then
other people can't tolerate the risk of the markets, and
so it is just so critical for you to work

(08:59):
with somebody or your to become educated on why diversification matters. So, Josh,
why don't we start with some definitions. What exactly is diversification?

Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, well, great question, Ceejay. Diversification is about spreading your
investments across different asset types to reduce risk. The securities
in exchange commission are known as the SEC defines it
as the practice of spreading money among different investments to
produce risk. It's like that old saying, don't put all

(09:32):
your eggs in one basket. The benefit of diversification is
the possibility of more predictable outcomes with less variation over time.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
Talking this Morning with CJ. Closs and Josh Sterling. They
are our retirement planning professionals from Class Financially. I want
to ask you a little bit about more about that
in just a moment. But in the meantime, you having
a chance, check out the website classfinancial dot com. That's
coss Klaasfinancial dot com. Telephone number for Class Financial their
office right here in Madison, sixtoh eight four four to
two five six three seven. Don't forget no charge for

(10:05):
that initial gets to know your appointment dech loss Financial.
It will be complimentary to you again their number six
oh eight four four two five six three seven. So, Josh,
as you mentioned, you talk about diversification and how it
helps reduced risk, but let's talk about what exactly is
risk in the context of investing.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
Yep, that's an excellent point, Sean, thank you. We should
define the other part of diversification, so risk in investing.
It's another really important concept. The Financial Industry Regulatory Authority
also known as FINRA defines risk as any uncertainty with
respect to your investments that has the potential to negatively

(10:45):
impact your financial welfare and in investing. Really, what that's
talking about is to invest in stocks or bonds, and
risk is the chance that that value goes down, or
they don't pay a dividend, or they don't pay you
back your interest payments, or your principle things like that.
And while risk within the context of investing can get

(11:07):
a little complex, we can all at least assess and
accept various risks in our everyday lives to kind of
provide a little correlation there. So, like the risk of
driving a car or even just simply walking across a
busy street, we accept that risk in our lives every
single day. But thankfully in investing we do have the

(11:28):
power to choose how much risk we want to take on,
and diversification is a critical part in managing that risk.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah. No, And to Josh's point, you know, you think
about risk of driving a car and then you weigh
it against the benefits of getting to places faster, right,
And don't mishear me, Not everybody assesses this risk the
same way, but most human beings, at least when you
go out on the belt line, you would assume it's
most human beings who can drive choose to drive, even

(11:58):
though they know it is probablyrobably one of the most
risky things they do. Every single week. Let me repeat that,
probably one of the most risky things that adults do
every single week is get into their car and go
drive on the belt line. And it's dangerous. I mean, listen,
I don't know about you, but when I drive down
the belt line there's people sometimes going one hundred miles
an hour, you know, buy me on the left. I go, WHOA,

(12:18):
what is happening? So very risky, but I choose to
accept that risk because of the potential benefits. Listen, Investing
is no different. When you invest, it is not a guarantee.
Just like when I get in my car. It is
not a guarantee that I will show up at work safely.
It's a high probability, but it's not a guarantee. That
is the risk. So Josh, this kind of sets the

(12:39):
stage nicely. So diversification is essentially a way to help
reduce the sharpest edges of market volatility. But it's not
just about owning a mix of stocks and bonds. There's
diversification within each of those categories of stocks and bonds
as well. So starting with diversification in stocks, how does
that work within the stock market?

Speaker 3 (12:59):
Yeah, absolutely so. I think it's really important to just
break down what a stock is because I think sometimes
to your comment earlier, a lot of people look at
the stock market and think, oh, it's just gambling, that's
all it is. It's just a gamble. But that's not
really what it is. Owning a stock is as simple
as owning a small piece of a larger company. You

(13:23):
essentially then get the right to own dividends in the
future from that company, or if the company grows, you
get to have a part of that growth in the company,
and there is no obligation to pay you dividends or
return the money you invested. That's the risk of owning
a stock. But that reason again for investing, is the

(13:47):
trust in the company that that company is going to grow,
they're going to create profits, and they're going to grow
your value in ownership. And while we like to see
that individual stock level, we see that happening in the
overall stock market over the long run of time, over
and over and over again. Now, owning a single stock

(14:09):
is quite risky because you're essentially putting all your faith
into the success of just one company. But when you
then go and you own a diversified mix of these
companies ten one hundred or even thousands of stocks. You're
helping to spread out that risk significantly, that just one
company isn't going to completely derail your investing rationale and

(14:33):
all your planning. So globally, there are about fifty eight
thousand publicly traded companies. Over the long run, the global
stock market generally trends positively, but individual companies can absolutely
face setbacks or even fail, and diversification helps protect against
those outlayers. It's also important to consider the different types

(14:57):
of companies that you own. Some companies focus on reinvesting
their profits to drive long term growth. Think about technology
companies like Facebook or Meta. You've got Netflix, but others
might pay dividends. Those are going to offer a more
immediate but traditionally stable return. Think of it kind of

(15:18):
like an interest payment that comes out to you on
a quarterly basis. These different approaches help adds diversification directly
into your portfolio by having different types of companies in there.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Talking this morning with CJ. Closs and Josh Stirling, our
retirement planning professionals from Class Financial. You can learn more
online Class financial dot com. That's coss k l a
A S Financial dot com. They're teleph number six O
eight four four two five six three seven. No charge
for that initial get to know you appointment Tech Loss Financial.
It will be complimentary to you again that number six
oh eight four four two five six three seven. And CG.

(15:53):
I know, CJ. I know you want to You want
to get in on this as well, don't you.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah, yeah, no, obviously I love this topic. For those
who have listened for a while, we've we ever once
want to get to talk about investing and kind of
the importance of staying the course and so very passionate
about this. But Josh, you're just kind of talking about,
you know, value of diversification within different companies, so basically
increasing the number of stocks that I own inside of
my portfolio. But you know, correct me if I'm wrong.

(16:18):
But it's not just about the number of companies that
I own, but also about their size and the industries
that they represent. So like I don't want to be
all in banking or just all in technology, so I
would assume that diversification is about size and industry and
other things besides just the number.

Speaker 3 (16:34):
Is that right, Yeah, that's that's right, That's exactly it.
There are so many different elements that come into diversification
within just the realm of stocks, and one of the
really important things that I think a lot of people
forget about is geographic diversification. The US is an incredible
force in the stock market, but there are international stocks,

(16:58):
both with developed countries like over Europe or developing countries
or emerging markets as well, and the US and international
stock markets often perform differently based on their economic and
political landscapes. For instance, the last twenty years have seen
this incredible US outperformance, but there absolutely have been periods

(17:21):
of time where international stocks have led the way multi years.
So looking at the S and P five hundred for
the US and then also looking at the MSCIEF Index
for the international stocks, both have had their own bouts
of strong returns and volatility, but at different times. When

(17:41):
we combine these different stocks, they can be a buoy
to the portfolio, as one may be more positive when
the others down, or vice versa. Looking at a simple example,
this is not the way that we would allocate our portfolios,
but just as a brief example, here the first ten
year annualized return since nineteen seventy for the S and

(18:04):
P five hundred alone was down about three percent, whereas
if we took a portfolio that's made up of fifty
percent SMP five hundred fifty percent that international market, well,
that would have only been down about one point seven percent.
That's almost a fifty percent reduction in poor performance during
a turbulent stock market. And when somebody is being invested

(18:28):
in these markets for a long, long period of time,
typically ten years or longer, the power of being able
to minimize the down markets, the pain that you might
experience being invested in the market is a big deal.
Combining these different markets really can help smooth out the
returns over a long period of time.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Great insight talking this morning with Josh Stirling and CJ. Closs.
They are our retirement binding professionals from Class Financial talking
this week about diversification. Talked about stocks will get into bonds.
I know there's a couple of people go on saying,
what about Well, we'll get into that in just a moment.
In the meantime, you've bent over to the website Class
Financial dot com. Head on over there now, or when
you get into the office that website COLSS financial dot

(19:08):
com that's k l aa S Financial dot com. They're
TELPHO number six o eight four four two five six
three seven. No charge for the initial gets to know
you appoinment tech COSS Financial. It will be complementary to
you again their number six oh eight four four two
five six three seven. We'll continto our conversation with CJ
and Josh and take your call next as Money in
Motion with COSS Financial continues right here on thirteen ten.

(19:30):
Wib I join this morning by CJ. Closs and Josh Stirling.
They are our retirement planning professionals from Class Financial. You
can learn more online the website class financial dot com.
That's COSS k l a A S Financial dot com.
TELPHO number six oh eight four four two five six
three seven. Don't forget no charge for that initial gets
to know you appointment tech Loss Financial. It will be

(19:50):
complementary to you again their number six oh eight four
four two five six three seven. Talking this week about diversification,
talking to those that first segment about stocks and let's
let's move over then to bonds. What do we need
to know their CJ.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, so, you know a lot of times people say,
how do you guys talk about investments when you can't
guarantee a return and truth be told. I mean, you
could buy a CD A certificate or deposit at a
bank and it's FDIC insured and you could know what
your return is going to be with a pretty high
degree of certainty. But I'll just be frank with you,
even nothing in life is guaranteed. Even even in like

(20:28):
CFP textbooks and different things that we study, they'll say, well,
there is this concept of the risk free rate, which
is often just linked to you know, like government treasuries
of the United States. But even then you go, but
what of the United States, like got wiped off the
face of the earth, is that then guaranteed? Listen, everybody,
if you don't know that, there's no guarantees. You know

(20:49):
in the world. You can get as close as you
possibly can through insurance companies or government products, but there
are no guarantees. So ultimately you have to think about
investing through the concept of expected returns. What is my
expectation of both risk aka volatility and return over long
periods of time. So the reason I bring this up

(21:11):
is because when you think of investing through expected returns,
the expected return of a globally diversified equity stock portfolio
is significantly greater than the expected return of any diversified
bond portfolio. I don't care what bonds you own. So
often people will say why would you ever invest in bonds?

(21:32):
That just seems silly, and to be quite frank, the
answer is because the variance of outcome year to year
in a bond is much tighter on average than the
variance in outcome of a stock. So said another way,
I may expect a nine percent return of stocks over
a ten year timeframe, but I could be up or
down thirty percent in any given year on that number,

(21:55):
Whereas I may only expect a return of five percent
on bonds, but my variance of outcome in any given
year might be more like, you know, eight to ten percent.
So you see the idea bonds provide more consistency, and
of course, given that we're a retirement planning firm, bonds
also offer consistent income because it's kind of like a CD.
You buy it over a period of time, and then

(22:16):
they make interest payments to you while you own that bond. Okay,
there's just kind of like a quick and dirty But
bonds are essentially loans that you, the investor, make to
companies or governments in exchange for regular interest payments and
the return of your principle. They come in many forms.
So there's US treasuries I mentioned before, there's corporate bonds,
there's mortgage backed securities. There's even things called high yield

(22:39):
or junk bonds, which are just lower rated bonds. They
also have different maturities kind of like a CD that
range from thirty days to thirty years. Yes I did
say thirty years. And these bonds certainly have their own
set of risks, like there's interest rate risk, there's reinvestment
rate risks, there's credit risks, but they generally provide more stable,
predictable returns and side which is why we often see

(23:02):
them inside of older clients' portfolios or retirees portfolios, or
more specifically portfolios that need to provide a payment in
the future, so whether it be income or like a
down payment on a home. And the stability from these
bonds really come from the obligation from the borrower. So

(23:22):
whether it be a company or government it they have
to make payments to you as somebody who supplied them
with the money. As a matter of fact, think of
it this way. Everybody a bond is much like a
company going to a bank and asking for money to
build a building, and the bank says, no, we'll give
you half the money, but we don't want to give
you the rest. And they go, okay, I'll just go
to the public and I'll issue them one hundred thousand

(23:45):
dollars pieces of paper. They give me one hundred grand,
I give them a piece of paper that says in
ten years, I'll give them back one hundred grand, and
I will give them interest payments. So when you are
purchasing bonds, you are purchasing the debt of either a
corporation or of a government entity or a municipality. So anyways,
the next time that the borrower tries to raise funds

(24:07):
for new projects or something like that, you can understand
it is often the bond that you are purchasing when
they're trying to raise funds from a borrower. So anyways,
there's a little bit of a primer on what are bonds,
But I know, Josh, you have more to say on
this topic.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
Yeah. So the bonds, of course provide that more predictable income,
don't have the same types of risks as stocks. So
the reason why we engage these in the overall portfolio
is that power of diversification. Typically you'll hear about this
quite a bit that when stock markets are down, when
there's fear in the market, people will push money to

(24:43):
safer assets things like cash or bonds or US government treasuries.
Of course, so those typically will be a good booy
during down markets, and we find this when we're working
with clients. We always encourage individuals to work with us
over a law period of time in investing. And when

(25:03):
you have that long period of time in investing, that's
when you get the power diversification. When you're putting it
all together, so you can get the power of that
global stock market, that engine to the entire investment experience.
That's going to drive a ton of growth in your portfolio.
I mean, since nineteen thirty seven, in a sixty forty portfolio,

(25:27):
your equity part of it drives about eleven percent of
that return in your portfolio. And that's a powerful, powerful thing.
But not all of it is going to be inside
the stock market, because of course there's volatility there, and
so those bonds are there to help stabilize during those
down markets. And it's really powerful because your investment team

(25:49):
like COSS Financial, we come in and we help manage
that risk over time. When the stock markets down we
see an opportunity for rebalancing, we come in we provide
that assist since we help rebalance and make sure that
individuals have their right risk profile so that they have
the correct expected to return over time. And it's just

(26:10):
a really powerful thing when everything can come together to
work well give a more predictable and smooth experience for
our clients and retirees.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Well put in talking this morning with Josh Stirling and CJ. Closs.
They are our retirement planning professionals from Class Financial. The
website class financi dot com. That's Class klaas financial dot com.
Great website to learn more about Colss Financial. And I'll
sign up for the weekly market Pul's newsletter right online.
They're telphone number six oh eight four four two five
six three seven. No charge for that initial get to

(26:40):
know your appointment at Loss Financial. It will be complementary
to you again. They're number six oh eight four four
two five six three seven. We'll take it down the
home stretch and do the Class quiz question the week
next as money in Motion, we have Class Financial continues
right here on thirteen ten Do Wuiba talking about diversification
this week with CJ. Closs and Josh Sterling. Of course
they our retirement playing professionals from Class Financial website Class

(27:03):
financial dot com. That's coss k l as Financial dot com. So, Josh,
it sounds like kind of the diversification isn't just a
single strategy, but really a combination of strategies, whether it's
within stocks, bonds, other asset classes. Am I right, is
kind of really about managing risk while still participating in
kind of the overall market.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
Absolutely, there's a lot of parts, a lot of pieces
to this, but just as we discussed earlier, kind of
the takeaway from this entire conversation, a well diversified portfolio
can lead to a smoother investment experience overall, and that
can help you stay the course even when we have

(27:45):
down or challenging markets.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah, well, thanks, Josh, I appreciate you jumping on and
talking to talking to our listeners kind of about diversification.
And one final point I'll mention as it relates to
investing that we didn't have time to talk about today
is your time. Your time in the market really does matter,
So a lot of people get drawn to the markets
because they hear that something's going way up and it

(28:10):
sounds exciting and they want to get in on the deal.
But you really need to understand what certain money is
for and what your timeline is. Obviously, if you're young
and you have a retirement account or for one g
at work, you probably have a long time to invest.
But if you're just taking money that's in a checking
or savings account and dumping it in one stock and

(28:31):
you expect to have that money available for a down
payment on your first home you're going to buy in
two years, probably not a great idea. So that's where
we come in. This is where Josh and the investment
team comes in to really help us assess how much
risk can this person tolerate, both both quantitatively, so that's
the idea of like the stability of their finances and

(28:52):
then qualitatively in terms of their personal risk tolerance. So
thanks Josh for jumping on with us talking about risk
tolerance and kind of time horizons and everything, and thank
you everybody for listening.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
That really good stuff and great to have both CJ
and Josh along this week. Good news, great news for
you if you've got questions. Class Financial makes it really
easy to start that conversation. Of course, you can learn
more online the website class financial dot com. That's closs
k l aas financial dot com. Even better, great day
to give them call a Class Financial telephone number six
oh eight four four two five, six three seven. No

(29:26):
charge for that initial get to know your appointment Tech
Loss Financial. It will be complimentary to you again their
number six oh eight four four two five six three seven.
You want to hold on to that telephone number now
because it's time for the class quiz question the week
works like this, just a moment to ask you the
class quiz question the week. You'll then have thirty minutes
from in today's program to call the Class Financial office
right here in Madison at six oh eight four four
two five, six three seven. If you are the first

(29:48):
call with correct answer to when, this week's prize which
is a twenty five dollars gift card to Jersey Mikes.
This week's class quiz question the week is this true
or false? Diversification is about spreading your investment across different
asset types to reduce risk. Is that true or is
that false? Telephone number six oh eight four four two five,

(30:08):
six three seven First call with correct Hanson win this
week's prize. Don't forget as well. That's class Financial office
right here in Madison again that number six oh eight
four four two five six three seven CJ Josh. Great
chatting with both of you, guys. Have a great day,
thanks Sean, Thank you Sean. Take care guys. Doctor Marty
Greer joins us next here on thirteen ten. Wuib I