Talking Golf 5-27-24

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Talking Golf at TPC Wisconsin is onthe air for Talking Golf is brought to
you by American Family Insurance, TPCWisconsin, Oak Park Place, Wild Rock
Golf club Simbric mer Cities, Benzof Madison, also University Ridge Golf Course,

(00:22):
Ridge Top Exteriors, Cleary Building Corp. And Nevada Bobbs Now from the
new home of TPC Wisconsin and Madison. Here are the hosts of Talking Golf.
Member of the Wisconsin Golf Hall ofFame, the legendary Dennis Tizziani,
longtime Madison sportscaster Paul Brown, andWisconsin sports veteran and state wife radio host

(00:45):
Mike Callander from TPC Wisconsin and Madison. Welcome to our Memorial Day show.
I'm Paul Brown, along with DaveMcCann or, engineer Mike Keller, and
Dennis Tizziani. Yeah, welcome youto TPC and guys, what have you
got to slate here for the holiday? Well, we'll start with this because

(01:10):
I know how much Dennis has alwaysbeen a proponent of military service and those
who have served right, and sotoday's one of those days where you get
to really pay honor to those whopaid an ultimate sacrifice for us to some
people won't agree, but to livein the greatest country on the planet.

(01:30):
And we've met a lot who havegone before us, who have allowed these
opportunities to go play golf on aMemorial Day and to celebrate how great we
are as a country. You're waitingfor me, Yeah, oh no,
I really, as you know,I am the proponent of that. Every
time those airplanes go over a saluteand a guy looks at me, what

(01:52):
are you doing, I said,I'm going to tell you what, buddy.
I feel so good to have thisprotection going by me all the time.
I feel good about it. ButI have a number of people that
we know. We do a numberof things. You know. A long
time ago, not that long ago, we had this reading disability thing,
and we had a young lady herewhose daughter was in that class, and

(02:15):
she called me up one day tellingme about it, and her question was
how long does the scholarship last,because we had to pay for that.
I said, well, as longas it takes your daughter to read.
And she cried on the business ofdoing stuff for those people to go over
there and get shot, you know, to do the service and stuff.

(02:35):
Wow, what a deal anyway,I can't say enough about him. I
appreciate every bit of that business ofservice. Yeah, it's a wonderful day
and everybody should remember that aspect ofit. On our show, we've got
Mario Tiziani, Dennis's son, who'sgoing to be joining us momentarily on the
show. Brandon Urstill is going tobe on. He's in charge of the

(02:59):
Willness Center. You're at TPC,and we're going to talk about some of
the things that you should do physicallyin terms of trying to perfor get better
and more conditioned to play golf inthat type of thing. Bobby or Bobby
Stricker pardon me, she is onher diary segment. She's going to talk

(03:20):
about chipping. So we're going toget that. And you got Gary Demorrow.
Yeah, Harry Tomato will be hereabout twenty minutes after the hour,
and Dennis will have tough questions forthat's the icing on the And what's our
hot topic for today? Well,I want to talk about pace of play,
because pace of play we've seen thedramatic changes in Major League Baseball over

(03:40):
the last two years. Put ina pitchclock, make sure the hitters don't
get out of the box. PGA, to her not necessarily is in a
bad place, but I think theycould maybe benefit from more active enforcement of
the clock or maybe not. Iwant to get some opinions around the table,
and we'll get to that a littlelittle bit later. But Mario is

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now with us, Mario Tizzan whoplayed over the weekend and the PGA Tour
champions event. But we want tostart with this. Welcome Mario to the
program. And first of all,congratulations, you are going to be one
of the inductees in the Wisconsin Hallof Fame next year. Congratulations, thank

(04:23):
you. Yeah, pretty pretty exciting. I didn't really expect it. I'm
not I don't know, I'm notsure that I feel I'm you know,
hopefully I can. I feel likeI could do a little more and maybe
solidify that. But I appreciate it, and obviously the board feels that way.

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You know. I think the mostexciting thing for me is, you
know who my family is in there, my dad, my uncle, my
brother in law. So that's that'spretty special. I think hopefully for all
of us, you know, it'spretty cool. You guys could get your
own wing. I know, hereally doesn't belongs. I look at that

(05:04):
group, and uh I look atwhat Mario's done. You know, I
know he's my son and stuff it, but he really deserves to be in
her and uh by what he's doingon the Senior Tour now to represent represent
himself, Wisconsin, obviously, theuniversity, all those things, those are
all good things. Mario. Fromfrom the outside looking in, it appears

(05:28):
that you've had two kind of separatecareers your young golf career. Then you
took care of some business side ofgolf for many many years. But now
that resurgence for you on the ChampionsTour. You lived the life. But
how would you describe your two separatekind of golf careers that you've had as
a player? Yeah, pretty different, Obviously I did. I did a

(05:55):
lot of good things all the waythrough my childhood, through high school,
through college. After college, probablyunderachieved, but at the same time,
you know, I did a lotof good things, not great, but
a lot of good things. Andbut I think I think I was maybe
outside my skis in terms of justmentally being ready to do all, you

(06:19):
know, at a high level,and so I stepped away for reasons I
don't know. I I essentially justfell out of love with it, and
I had other things that we're pulling, and it's a selfish lifestyle, and
I wasn't prepared to, you know, have it be all about me.
So I stepped away and did someother things and and learned a lot managing

(06:42):
players, and it was very evidentto me. I felt like I was
looking in the mirror a lot withthe guys I was managing and trying to
help climb climb that mountain. Andso I was fortunate. Not everybody has
the opportunity to get another crack,and so I took advantage of what I
had and took what I learned,which was really just slow down. Yeah,

(07:06):
I just you know, everything wasmoving so fast and and I'm I'm
probably a d D as it isanyways, so it's moved extras past and
and I just needed to slow down. And and I think that's what I've
been fortunate to do is just kindof reflect on and and what I've learned

(07:28):
in the game and out of thegame before being able to kind of put
that forward, and with what I'vedone on the Champions Tour, which I
don't think it's anything exceptional, butI've again, I've done a lot of
good things, and I don't thinkI'll ever be elite out there. I
mean, I I've watched those guys. They're they're you know, like Steve
every single week, Like I don'tthink anybody realizes how great that is,

(07:50):
how he finishes up there every week. It's it's very hard, but I
think I could pick off a winhere or there. I think I'm that
type of player like that. Idon't think I'll ever be e laite.
I embraced that, but I've beenable to kind of learn a lot and
apply that now moving forward in myfifty Mario, looking at that and moving
forward at the same time. Thebalancing act, h you're an agent,

(08:16):
you're a board member and the mFAM and them FAM tournament, you're a
golfer, you're a caddy, you'rea father, all of those kind of
things. How do you put intoperspective and as maybe that whole picture changed
a little bit for you and you'rethinking as you're down the road, I'm
pretty focused on the golf side ofit right now. I've been working really

(08:39):
hard at it, trying to getbetter, But I also think that all
the other things helped me do allthe other things. Well, you know,
I'll go back to what I've learned. I don't know that you can
be one hundred percent on one thing, and I think it can be counterpard

(09:00):
active. Maybe not all the time, but I think it could be counterproductive,
and you have to step away andget into some other things. So
I think they all all of thosethings. While it seems like I'm super
busy, I compartmentalize it, andI have my time to do those other
things, and then I also havemy time to practice and and focus on

(09:20):
that. So I think they helpeach other. Mario, when you jumped
back in to play full time hand getting all the champions to her opportunity.
You talked previously in this conversation aboutkind of falling out of love with
the game. What was the impetusthat allowed you to re embrace it and

(09:41):
to have the passion for it,Because obviously you talked about being a selfish
life. You have to have thepassion for what reinvigorated you to get back
to playing now at this level.Yeah, I think just a decade out
of it, I underachieved and itwas it was an opportunity to, like
I said, go back and provethat I did that. So I think

(10:05):
that was the drive to go backand kind of prove it to myself nobody
else that that I could that Icould do great things. Great things meaning
you know, compete, compete towin. I mean, that's that's why
we do it at our core,you know, we want to win,
and so I felt like I hadan opportunity to go do that. So

(10:30):
you know, that's that's that's that'swhat it was. That's kind of how
I fell back in love with it. I just felt like I learned a
lot and wanted to give another track. We were talking to Mario Tiziani joining
US tie fifty one this weekend ata major in Michigan. I know that
you guys were there together. Bobbywas over at Caddy and for Steve,

(10:52):
so that's you had some family timethis last week in the tournament as well.
Uh, all in all a goodweek. How do you view a
week like that? Yeah, No, I mean it wasn't It wasn't great.
I still pull the positive. Idid a lot of good things.
I did a lot of bad thingsthat I'm not proud of, but you

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know, it was it was amajor it was. It was a tough
course. And I always say,you know, majors expose you. I'm
looking forward to the US Open herein a few weeks because they do you
expose you. I mean they theymake it very evident on where you where
your deficiencies are in your game.You can't fake it. And you know,

(11:37):
uh, you know, I've playeda couple of US Opens. I
think my dad played for Like,you leave those pretty humbled. Typically they
just yeah. So it was.It was a tough golf course. It
showed me again what I need towork on, and uh, you know
it's I stay patient. I thinkI had three holes left before I was

(11:58):
ready to jump in the lake.But that so, Mario, how how
does it work? What would youhave to do to become a regular on
the Champions Tour? Is it likethe top thirty six or how does all
of that work? Yeah, it'sthe top thirty six. It's pretty complicated

(12:18):
process. You know, where Ifinished last year, I'm essentially I get
I'm getting in everything, but uh, you know, top thirty six at
the end of the year is whenyou can pretty much, you know,
plan your schedule. Where I finishedat forty six, you know they told
me going in based on where everybodyelse finished. Look, you're gonna you're

(12:41):
gonna essentially get into everything. Soto answer your question, thirty six is
is you know the hard number?Any forty one, forty two is is
a real safe and in top fiftyfour is you know decent? So Mario,
you're gonna You're gonna played this weekdown in Des Moines and then uh,

(13:03):
the FAM Championship and then you soyou're playing. You're playing a lot
of golf, aren't you. Yeah, yeah, I am. There's weeks
off in there too, and youhave to be careful to rest and all
that. But but I'm excited.I mean, actually, I literally feel
every week that it's gonna happen.It hasn't, but every week I go

(13:24):
in with a good attitude and I'mdoing a lot of good things. You
know. It's just most of itfor me is nerves. It's frustrating because
I know it's it's a little bitage related, but you know, I
just I don't. I don't.I'm not as comfortable as i'd like to
be sometimes, you know, butit's it's part of the deal, is

(13:46):
part of the fun. I'm findingout a lot about myself and and what
makes me play well and not playwell. So, like I said,
every week, every week I'm excitedand and I'm happen. So I'm waiting
patiently. Yeah, Dennis, I'mgoing to bring you into this. Don't

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want to make it uncomfortable. Butevery time we talk about Steve's game,
You've got some thoughts on Steve's games. What do you see in Mario's game?
But Dad, there's a different deal. There's a different deal. You
know that. What he's not talkingabout is that in our family, in
the teaching, you know, itwas faith, family, education, golf
that was the priorities. And whathe did is he gave up his golf

(14:31):
to take care of his family.Has two beautiful daughters, very good,
very successful. But what he's nottalking about is he made a decision to
take care of that family that froma dad's perspective, is probably the greatest.
Nikky did the same. You gottwo kids that did the same thing.
That's what they did. And thesecond thing is is that he came
at a time. You know,I didn't spend enough time. I wish

(14:52):
I could have spent more time withhim. You know, he's in Minneapolis
and stuff, and I spent moretime out with with Steve than I with
my own son. Yeah, sothat's a take back. But those are
the two items that business of Iwasn't able to go ahead to give him
one hundred percent of my time.And the other is is that he did
what he's supposed to do, tookcare of his family. Mario one final

(15:15):
one. Then we're gonna let yougo. Tpcuh. Obviously you're an integral
part of that as well. I'dbe curious what your impressions of the course
are. I know you haven't playedit a lot, and what do you
think the tour players are going tothink of this layout once they get an
opportunity to play it. I thinkit's great. I mean, obviously I'm

(15:39):
biased. He did a great job. The decision to do it and do
it all in from my dad isit was, you know, incredible.
I mean, he's never done anythinghalfway and I'm glad. I'm glad we
did it how we did it.I think it's magnificent. I think I
think it's a great challenge. Ithink the guys on the Champions Tool will

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we'll like it a lot, youknow, they'll they'll pick it apart somehow,
but you have to drive it well. Uh, you know, there's
high shot qualities. But you knowwhat, if you hit good shots,
you can you can make you canmake Bertie. So I think that's all
you can ask. Uh, youknow, get rewarded for good shots.

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And if you don't hit a goodshots, then you should you should pay
for it. So I think they'regonna love it, and I'm excited to
get get the feedback. Hey,Mario, it's good to visit with you.
Thanks for spending some time with us. Continued success, good luck in
Des Moine this week. Uh,and we'll look forward to chatting again soon.
Thank you, guys, appreciate it. Sure. Mario Tizziani joining us

(16:48):
on the program. So family wasover there when we talked to him last
Monday. They were out having youknow, a couple of margarita's and then
they're at the ice cream store.And I mean in that in that great
and the great thing that they getto do, very fortunate, but it's
been earned that when they're doing stufflike that, family is still part of
it. Well, it's everything.They're very well ground in both He's Steve
and Mario very much so. Andthat's a proud thing from my standpoint.

(17:11):
I mean, success on a touris great. All that is good,
but when it boils down to whenthat's over with, yeah, that's what
you have left is those siblings.And you've said this when we talked about
it last summer, when when Nickyqualified to play in that tournament out West,
that she gave up her game,you know, to raise kids and
just you know, beat on thebag at times for Steve, and Mario

(17:33):
did the same thing. Well,they're great support people, you know,
but they're very bright in their ownthing. They're very well grounded. I
mean, even though they in supportpositions Steve, I mean Mario now being
an agent for Steven, and that'sa proud thing from a family from my
father's standpoint, very good. Webetter take a break there because we got

(17:53):
Gary Demato coming up. We'll wayback after we take this time out at
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fall Brown and is Tissy Honey withyou? Were welcoming there? In

(21:15):
to motto President of the National GolfWriters Association of America, Gary, I
want to dive into the deep endof the pool out of the gates here,
I want to talk about the GraysonMurray story, at least briefly.
It's a tragic story. It goesagain to the concept of mental health is

(21:38):
a part of life and it playsa significant role. And in this case,
I know that that storyline has beenfront and center on the PGA tour,
a lot of conversation about a lotof honor paid to Grayson Murray.
But what a tragic story. Yeah, I really said, I just found
out about it when everyone else ita couple of days ago on social media,

(22:00):
when everything sort of broke, thenews broke, and at first we
didn't know, you know, exactlywhat happened, how he died, and
then his family confirmed that it wasa suicide, which is just just a
tragic set of circumstances there. Andyou know, Grayson had been very open,
you know, he went earlier thisyear in Hawaii and was very open
about his struggles with mental health,with depression and alcoholism, and you know,

(22:26):
really seemed to have turned a cornerand had been sober for I guess,
you know, many months. Buthe just goes to show you just
never know, right, And that'swhy so important to hold your loved ones
close and pay attention to whatever littlesigns that might be out there. We
just had Mario Tizzioni on the showGary and we were talking about his success

(22:48):
on the Champions Tour. It's aunique story, isn't it. What he
has done from being a very successfuljunior and young player and then stepping away
from playing the game for a fairlydecent period of time and now jumping back
in and essentially playing the full scheduleon the Champions Tour. Very unique story.

(23:10):
Not many guys have a story evenremotely similar to that. I mean,
you know, very good player,as you mentioned in his younger days,
and you know, got on aPGA tour for a year and played
pretty well there but couldn't keep hiscard. And then you know, got
involved in the business end of golfand wasn't a sports agent, still is
and most notably for his brother inlaw, Steve Stricker. And you know,

(23:33):
after about a decade away from thegame, came back and played,
you know, as good as he'sever played, really. I mean.
And the thing is when you lookat Mario and I always tell him this,
and I seen he looks like he'sabout thirty five years old, fifty
three or fifty four. And speakingof Mario, I just got a text
from him. He was, Idon't know if I'm breaking this news or
if you guys have already talked aboutit, but he was elected last week

(23:56):
into the Wisconsin dellfall of team.So happy for him. And we'll have
a story on Wisconsin Diugulf later inthe week about Mario and the other inductees.
Gary One other aspect of on thePGA tour, what do you think
the final outcome of the Scheffler situationis going to be? You know,
it sounds like sounds like there's anoverreach or or at least you know,

(24:19):
some of the charges were we're ginnedup a little bit. I think.
I think that's what the general perceptionsthat's coming out as now. I can't
imagine he's going to be convicted ofa felony. I think the charges are
probably going to reduce and he'll probablypay a fine. I mean, that's
just my opinion. I don't knowwhat's going to happen, but it sounds
like when you hear the mayor andthe people and Louisville talk about what happened,

(24:42):
they thought that maybe the charges wereexcessive. And knowing Scottie a little
bit, I mean, I don'tknow him well obviously, but I've been
around him a little bit and hurthim on many occasions talk and he is
the most level headed, down theearth guy that you'll you're going to find
on the PGA too. And Ican't imagine he did anything intentionally that was

(25:03):
against what the police were telling himto do. If there was some confusion,
he probably thought he was doing theright thing. He might have been
getting conflicting directions from different people.So yeah, I don't think it's going
to mount to much more than aflying person. Talking to Gary Tomato,
let me ask you about major championshipsand tournaments played in Wisconsin. Not a
major, but we have the AMFAMChampionship at University Ridge a week and a

(25:26):
half down the road that we'll movehere in a year. But when they
changed the calendar, Gary, theytook essentially took the men's side of major
championship play out of rotation for Wisconsin. Do you believe that that is indeed
the case that bringing a major backinto the state of Wisconsin on the men's

(25:48):
side of the PGA tour is goingto be difficult, If not impossible,
I wouldn't say impossible. I thinkit's going to be difficult. I think
we're going to definitely get our shareof USGA championships. Stan Valley's getting four,
We've got the Women's Open at AaronHills next year, and Central World
is going to get a couple downthe road. So there's gonna be stuff
coming here, big stuff, importantstuff. But as far as a men's

(26:10):
major, gonna be tougher. Onereason is that, especially when you look
at the US Open, it's scheduledout about twenty years now, with only
one or two years that aren't filledyet, So that's going to be tough.
And then when you talk about thePGA Championship coming back to Whistling Straight,
it's not that the weather would behorrible. I mean, they played
in Louisville and it rained the wholeweek basically, but it's just at the

(26:33):
course. It's tough to get thatcourse ready by mid May for a major
championship. So for the infrastructure,right, all the build ups in the
infrastructure, Yeah, they'd have tobuild it out starting in you know,
basically late winter, So it's goingto be tough. But I wouldn't say
impossible. All right, let's talkone of the topics I wanted to touch
on his pace play. We've seenit. Is there a problem at all

(26:55):
in pace of play? It's kindof been off the front page on the
tour, but baseball went to thepitch clock and the hitter's clock. We
see it in all of the othersports. Is golf being a good place
as far as pace in your world? No, it's not, really,
hasn't been for a long time,and I'm not sure it ever will be,
because you know, the finds meanvery little to the players who are

(27:18):
making you know, when you're talkingabout guys now, especially with the inflated
numbers and the prize money in personsgoing up and up and up. You
know, a five or ten orfifteen thousand dollars fine doesn't hurt these guys,
you know. The only thing thathurt will make them sit up and
take notices is strokes, you know, adding strokes on. But it is
a problem, and I think it'sa problem mostly because young people coming into

(27:41):
the game are used to, youknow, a quicker way of life and
immediacy and everything they do, andI think younger people don't want to watch
five and a half hour rounds andcertainly don't want to play six hour rounds.
Dennis, I want to bring youinto this right now as being a
former owner and the current owner ofTPC and that kind of thing. But

(28:03):
you've been in the golf business allyour life. Let's take it down to
the regular foursome of people that play. You guys talk about the foursome has
the priority on the golf course.What about when you've got a twosome behind
it, maybe a threesome. Howdo you look at what are the priorities
and pay and play in terms ofregular rounds of golf? Well, you

(28:25):
know, playing over four hours along time and it has to be controlled
that way. Players have to moveup in order to play. They always
want to play the hardest positions thattakes a lot of time. Foursomes have
priority, But then again, inour place here, we're watching very close

(28:45):
to make sure we let these peopleknow, let faster players go through.
You know, it's something you shoulddo. Although the person that's playing as
a single or a twosome better understandthat you don't have a free round to
go get in your cart and goaround and play in two and a half
hours. That's not going to work. So on a private basis, we
can talk about that to our membership. Public is a different story. Sure,

(29:07):
that's a hard thing to do todo that on a public situation,
but here we're making them aware ofthat they do have priority, but you
let the person go through. Also, you know, we have a way
of communicating via GPS and the likeback to our pro shop that if there
is an issue out there to callthat chop and we're on top of doing

(29:29):
it. One of the things wesell here is, you know, is
availability and service. Those are thetwo things availability. But to get around
in less than four hours you playmore than that, it's a difficult thing
to do. So we want tomake sure from our standpoint of sales,
effort is playing faster. Gary,I'm going to take it back to the
tour just for a second, froma pace of play standpoint on the tour,

(29:51):
would they consider the radical change ofactually having a countdown clock on the
course that travels with the group asthe playing What are they what are they
considering in order to make a changeand to speed up the process. Well,
I don't know that they're considering muchright now. I mean, they've
got so many things to worry aboutbeyond pace of play, although that is

(30:11):
a concern, certainly is. Butyou know, I think it's time,
it's beyond time that they looked atthat, because you look at the TV
ratings, they're all down. Youlook at you know, just the pace
of play in general, and howlong it takes PGA tours to play around
the golf. Something should be donebecause the next wave of young people and

(30:33):
golfers coming up isn't going to youknow, follow golf and follow golfers who
are playing that slow. So Ijust think something, you know, it's
high time that something is done.I'm not whotly my breath. I guess
I'm crossing my fingers, but notonly my breath that something's going to be
done. So really good stuff,Gary Demando. Thanks, we appreciate you
being here. Happy Memorial Day.We'll see you out at University to Ridge

(30:56):
in about a week and a half, so it'll tart you next Monday.
All right, thank you, Gary. All Right, we'll take a break.
We're going to hear from Brandon Firstel, who is the director of Fitness
here at TPC Wisconsin. But it'snot just here talking about golf fitness and
how they the two relate to oneanother. That comes up one week come
back, I'm talking golf. TPCWisconsin in Madison. Watch some of the

(31:18):
greatest names in golf history, includingtournament hosts Steve Stricker, at the American
Family Insurance Championship at University Ridge GolfCourse Friday June seventh through Sunday June ninth.
Tournament week includes an exciting concert featuringthree time Grammy Award winning Train on
Friday, June seventh at Bryce Stevensfield. Proceeds support the Steve Stricker, American
Family Insurance Foundation and the American FamilyChildren's Hospital. Get your tickets at AMFAM

(31:42):
Championship dot com. That's AMFAM Championshipdot com. University Ridge has been the
proud host of the American Family InsuranceChampionship since twenty sixteen. We've enjoyed working
with the American Family team to createnine years of magical moments at Universe Ridge.
Open to the public and consistently consideredone of the best values in the

(32:04):
country, University Ridge is d placefor golf in southern Wisconsin. Book your
tea time up to ninety days outonline at University Ridge dot com. Play
with the Badgers and the Pros PlayUniversity Ridge. When you are a loved
one could use a helping hand,turn to the caring team of experts.
In senior living at oak Park Place. This is Paul Brown And when I

(32:27):
needed someone to help me navigate seniorliving for my wife, I called oak
Park Place. They were with meevery step of the way, from the
first call through a move in day. Choose a community that promotes independence when
you want it, assistance when youneed it. Oak Parkplace Senior Living.
Visit oak Parkplace dot com to learnmore. Why drive an ordinary car when

(32:50):
for the same monthly payment you couldbe driving something extraordinary Aaron Perkins, General
Managers in Brick European. Imagine yourselfbehind the wheel of a Mercedes, benz
Out or Porsche. More safety,performance and luxury and way more fun and
getting more costs less than you think. Zimbrac European makes leasing affordable. Discover
the value for yourself. Stop inand test drive in Mercedes, benz Audi

(33:12):
or Porsche Today. Visit zimbrag Europeanand find out why leasing the car of
your dreams makes so much sense.TPC Wisconsin offers fantastic facilities for the whole
family. They not only provide memberswith eighteen holes of an elite golfing caliber
challenge, but an Olympic sized swimmingpool, spacious accommodations for family gatherings,
weddings, corporate business meetings, anda variety of programs for the junior golfers.

(33:37):
Question is are you up for theTPC Wisconsin fantastic facilities? Now's the
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Build your dreams today at Clearybuilding dotcom Talking golf along with Mike Keiller,

(34:25):
Paul Brown, and with us isBrendan Firstell, who's the strength and
conditioning coach at the Wellness Center hereat TPC. First of all, Brandon,
welcome to the show. Quick backgroundon him. Certified and Coordinating Specialists,
Titleist, Performance certified golf fitness Instructor, earned his Masters at Carol University.

(34:47):
He is also a coach there atinvolvement with the University of Wisconsin.
So just very quickly wrap that backgroundup and tell us a little bit about
your experience. Yeah, So,initially I was in college strength conditioning,
and I had some experiences at Carol, at UW Madison, and a couple
other schools, one in Kentucky,went in Michigan. But my goal was

(35:10):
to first be in college strength conditioning. But after I was around that realm
for a little bit, you startto realize that there's not a lot of
work life balance. It's a lotmore work, a lot less life.
And so as I got into that, I started to find more passion in
the private sector working with middle school, high school athletes, and so I

(35:30):
started to transition a little bit moreinto working with every single sport you can
think of. And then as Iwas at pre Athletic Club, which was
one of the places I was atprobably the longest I met Travis, and
I started getting more into golf.I golfed when I was in high school
on the team, didn't really golftoo much of college, but then started
diving a lot more into the golfstrength conditioning world and really found out a

(35:53):
passion for it to be able totry to improve myself and then help others
get improven as well, get faster, more mobile, and so pretty much
just dove head in, started toget a lot more on the golf side
and kind of tailed away a littlebit more from some of the other sports.
Brinton, let me ask you aquestion. So the title is strength
and conditioning coach in the world atgolf thirty years ago, that didn't exist.

(36:15):
Yeah, so how has that changed? And what have you learned that
the fitness is different than golf fitness? They could, yeah, are combined
in some ways, but not atall ways. Yeah, We'll say in
fitness there's a lot of different sectorsyou can get into. There's powerlifting,
there's bodybuilding, there's CrossFit, whichis a little bit of everything. I

(36:36):
would say back decades ago, alot of people just did what they knew,
which was more of the bodybuilding.The Arnold Schwarzenegger type workouts, and
they didn't necessarily have as much intentionon working on speed power mobility. So
I think that's been one of thebiggest changes within performance and golf performance,
where there's a lot more intention ontrying to get your body to move for

(36:57):
the requirements of your sport, forthe demands of your sport, rather than
just I'm going to see how muchweight I can curl and get my biceps
as big as possible. So whenyou go to the normal gyms you still
see that a little bit where peopleare usually doing body building type workouts.
Golf fitness is a combination of prettymuch everything where we want to use power
lifting movements to get strong. There'sa little bit of bodybuilding aspect in it
as far as if you have aninjury, then you want to start to

(37:22):
be able to create some better armorfor your body, but usually trying to
spend a lot more of your timeon just moving better and then trying to
get faster. A little bit earliertoday, I was talking with Dave O
Leschak, who's the vice vice presidenthere at TPC, and Dennis Tizziani,
who's a long time golfer, andwe were talking about those things, and

(37:42):
they describe the physical part of thegame of golf this way, and you
mentioned a little bit of it.Speed and strength. They want to move
faster, the golfer to move faster, and mobility and range are in motion
the key factors and they I askedDennis, what are the key body arts
that you use in the swing?And he said, yeah, there's five

(38:02):
of them. What is the anklefor the right hander, would be the
left ankle, the hip, thepecks in the abs, the shoulder,
and the arm. You said,those are the key ones yep. And
so how do you work on thoseor what would you do for someone coming
in to say, I want toget better? Yeah, in terms of
physical fitness. So first step isgoing through an assessment to know exactly where

(38:27):
where your limitations might be. There'sa Titleist Performance Institute has their own assessment.
There's exercises I like to add injust to be able to get a
big picture of how your body movesin relation to the golf swing. But
to break it down, usually there'sfour main rotary centers of the body.
There's the neck, there's the trunk, there's the shoulders and the hips and
so first, I like to lookat those four key points. If you

(38:49):
can't rotate, you can strain forstrength, but it's really not going to
make much of a difference within yourgolf swing as much as working on mobility
first to get your body to movethe way it should, opening up those
roatary centers, and then starting toadd on strength and power on top of
that. So usually we'll go throughan assessment first to see if there's anything
that we need to open up,which for majority of people, you need
to open up at least one ofthe road. Recenters hips are usually a
big one, shoulders as well.Once we start to be able to work

(39:13):
on a mobility for golf, thenthat's where we can start to be able
to move into exercises that'll help withour golf performance. Vertical jumping doing a
chest pass with the medicine ball.Those are the two biggest power exercises that
have science BACSS too to have carryover into your swing speeds. So essentially,
the higher you can jump and thefarther that you can throw a medicine

(39:35):
ball, the faster you're going tobe having the potential to be able to
swing a club. There's a lotof different things we can work on as
well. But looking at the thethe pecks, our pressing motions are very
very important. Lower body squatting motionsare very important, and then we just
layer in push pull lower body.At least you want to work on your
squatting, your lunging, your hinging, and then working on core with your

(39:59):
rotation and in relation to golf too. We're talking with Brandon Ferstal, strength
and conditioning coach at TPC Wisconsin.I asked you this off the year,
Osky on Yeah, shorter answer onthis. I guess the difference between fitness
and golf fitness is is that golffitness encompasses a little bit of everything within
within training. Yeah. So alot of people go to the gym they

(40:22):
just want to focus on just thestrength aspect. They don't really put too
much time into the mobility. Butfor golfers, a lot of us have
the goal for longevity. We wantto golf in a decent shape for as
long as we possibly can. Andso you'rer yep, So biggest thing is
just trying to be able to train, to be able to make sure that
our body is moving the way itshould as a human. First and then

(40:44):
we start to layer in a lotof this these different like golf specific motions
that have carry over into swing speed, carry over into increasing range motion in
some of the areas that Paul mentioned, some of the big rotary centers,
and then just layering progressions on topof that so we can always continue you
do adapt, you know, Ithink about what you're saying, and you
take my age, and I'm inmy seventies and I have a bad hip.

(41:07):
Yeah, and it's really a problem. I have very little hip turn.
Is there a possibility that potentially youcould increase it a little bit and
make it a little better, orare there situations where you just can't do
anything right that type of thing.I would say, I've never come across
someone that hasn't been able to seesomewhat of measurable results, even if it's

(41:28):
opening up a couple degrees of rangeof motion. Hips are usually a big
one that if you have stiff hips, it's really going to affect your golf
swing as far as your efficiency,but it's usually going to lead to a
little bit of lower back pain.That's one of the biggest indicators of having
low back pain is having a lackof hip internal rotation. So if you
haven't been doing a lot, nowdoing something is really going to help out.

(41:50):
And a lot of times if youhaven't really been doing too much,
then just five minutes a day,ten minutes a day can really end up
getting your results very very quickly.Mike, he's given me a little encouragement.
Ye vote for you, yea,even left handers, even left handers.
Very good. Let's we'll wrap itup, Brandon. We appreciate you
spending some time with us. Yeah, fitness is a big part of this.

(42:10):
It's changed dramatically in the last quartercentury. Glad to have you on
board. And then it's good tovisit with you. Yeah, yeah,
great to be here. Thanks forhaving me. Very good. We continue
with talking golf from TPC, Wisconsin. In a moment, your golf game
need to pick me up. It'sone stop shopping only hit in the battle
O. Joel and his crew canequip you, dress you, teach you.
And here's the best part. Newerused club shoes, bags, carts,

(42:31):
apparel, balls, you name itand they got it. Isn't that
right, Joel? Your game,your store always at the best price.
Watch some of the greatest names ingolf history, including tournament hosts Steve Stricker
at the American Family Insurance Championship atUniversity Ridge Golf Course Friday June seventh through
Sunday June ninth. Tournament week includesan exciting concert featuring three time Grammy Award

(42:52):
winning Train on Friday, June seventhat Bryce Stevensfield. Proceeds support the Steve
Stricker American Family Insurance Foundation and theAmerican Family Children's Hospital. Get your tickets
at AMFAM Championship dot com. That'sAMFAM Championship dot com. Now is the
time to take the sharp drive toWildrockgolf Club. It experience Championship golf in

(43:13):
the heart of Wisconsin. Located inthe Wisconsin DALs, this Herdson frimemasterpiece offers
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Secluded in sheltered from the outside world, Wild Rock is unlike any place you've
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(43:34):
time online today at Wildrockcolf dot com. Wildrockcolf dot com. Hi, It's
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Are you in need of some rehabilitationto get you back on your feet
after a fall or surgery? Thisis Paul Brown with Oak Park Place.
Make a call to oak Park PlaceRehabilitation to develop a customized plan with their

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Visit oak Parkplace dot com to learnmore. TPC Wisconsin is the total People

(44:42):
center offering you and your family atotally enjoyable experience that includes a challenging eighteen
whole layout, a good variety ofprograms for junior golfers inndoor and outdoor tennis,
athletic performance center, swimming pool,luxurious locker room, and spacious accommodations
for family gatherings in wa TPC Wisconsin, a total people center, and a
complete game for the whole family.For membership details called chicksaw eight two four,

(45:07):
nine, one thousand. Your golfgame need to pick me up.
It's one stop shopping only in theBatta bab. Joel and his crew can
equip you, dress you, teachyou. And here's the best part.
Newer use club shoes, bags,carts, apparel, balls, you name
it and they got it. Isn'tthat right, Joel? Your game,
your store, always at the bestprice. We continue on talking golf from

(45:29):
TPC Wisconsin. I'm Mike Keller.Travis Becker is the director of instruction here
at TPC Wisconsin, and let's talkabout fitting. It's something that is always
part and parcel to this game.It's grown in so many different ways over
the course of time. So Iwant to ask one of the basic premise
concepts. Somebody says, my wife, for instance, I'm not good enough

(45:52):
to be fitted for clubs. Mike. The concept of that, I'm sure
you deal with on a regular basis. What's the answer to the question that
says, I don't think I'm goodenough to be fitted. Anybody can benefit
from a club fitting, whether youare a beginner, you've never touched the
club before. No, there's someinstruction. We need to get some of
the basics down and make contact witha golf ball. But sometimes that lady

(46:15):
is playing with her husband's cut offclubs that are way too long, too
stiff, too heavy, and shegoes out and struggles with that and doesn't
like the game. Where we getsomething a little bit lighter, a little
more loft, and all of asudden, the success starts to happen.
So it's good for anyone. Ifyou are a golfer, you must get
fit. Does it change so otherpeople? I'll give you another scenario that

(46:37):
I'm sure you answer on a regularbasis. If I'm gonna take lessons from
you and you're gonna effectively kind ofchange some of the things I'm doing this
swing, shouldn't we wait until we'redone doing the lessons before you fit me,
because otherwise will I have changed myfit based on swinging it better or
differently. We don't see that changehappen a whole lot. It's kind of

(46:59):
like a fingerprint. Unless you hitone hundred and fifty balls seven days a
week, you may change it enoughwhere we have to tweak something. But
the change comes from a junior playerwho is growing getting stronger, or a
senior player who may be getting alittle bit weaker with age and not swinging
like they used to, or theirbody is a little bit tighter, not
as flexible. Changes in the equipmentthat take place. We talked about this

(47:22):
a couple of weeks ago on putterfitting. So you do all elements right,
so you start. You can fitto the putter, and you can
fit to wedges and irons and utilityclubs and to rescue clubs and the driver
in three wood right all through thebag, all through the bag. A
typical bag fit would take us aboutfour hours to walk someone through it.
We recommend two to three appointments becauseit's a lot of balls in four hours.

(47:45):
But we look at all different aspects. You know from the shaft,
to the length, the lie,the head design, the set makeup what
kind of golf ball you're playing prettymuch from start to finish. Even grip
size right and obviously putter. Itnot just the grip size, but it's
the grip shape because there are manydifferent ways. Everything else is grip size

(48:06):
because the makeup of the the gripon all other clubs is uniform. Correct.
We look at a couple things forgrip. We'll we'll measure the hands
when we start with that, welook at ball flight. We can put
a bigger grip on for somebody thatmay miss to the left or a right
handed player, or a smaller gripthat's someone may miss to the right to
help them release their hands a littlebit faster. We also look at there's

(48:28):
people with hand disabilities with our rightisare maybe sore wrist. A little bigger
grip may benefit them as well.Is it different from somebody says, okay,
I want to get I want toneed new wedges. Can you do
a fitting for wedges? Wedges fittinggoing to be different than your core iron,
your four through nine or four throughpitching wedge. Will that be different?

(48:49):
Yes, it will. During thewedge fitting, we'll we'll match up
some of the specifications from the ironfitting. We will take the length and
probably match that up. Li anglecould change a little bit because in a
bunker you move your feet into thesand and the club becomes a little bit
more upright. We look at howyou interact with the turf, so there's
there's different grinds on the wedges.There's different bounces whether you're a picker of

(49:13):
the golf ball or you're a bigdivot taker, or what kind of conditions
you play on if it's soft orfirm or a little bit of everything we
have. Sometimes people put a mixtureof bounces in their bag based on different
situations that they're coming across with agolf ball. So I was out with
somebody playing last Friday, and I'vetalked to you about getting fitted for a

(49:34):
five wood seven with something to stemthe gap, because there are gaps in
people's games in yardages that they don'tthey'll say it. You'll hear them say
it, I don't have a clubfor this, or I can't hit my
five iron here, so I endup hitting my seven iron even though it's
not the right distance. So thereare gaps to fill in in fittings right
in the set makeup. Correct.We do what we call a club calibration

(49:55):
where you'll go through every club inyour bag to make sure we're not duplicating
anything or making sure that there's nottoo big of a gapping where it's twenty
yards or more between two particular golfclubs. So in that that's all part
of it. It used to be, well, at least to my knowledge,
it used to be that people wouldthat were getting fitted would make sure

(50:15):
that they were getting fitted for theirwedges or their their woods, especially driver
three wood, because it's there's animportance to that part of the game.
Totally different on well, I mean, I did ask you that wedges different
than irons, Iron is different thanDriver three wood. But is the fitting
totally different on the woods the longclubs? It is, well, in

(50:37):
the driver is the different fitting thanthe long game fitting with the highbreds in
fairway woods. So driver we're looking, you know, to maximize your ball
speed, your launch angle, yourspin rate, and your dispersion. The
irons were doing the same. We'realso looking more at the d sun angle
so you can hold the green wedges. We're looking at a lot of the
spin rate so that ball is controllable. So all of the fittings are different.

(51:01):
When you walk through the process,it's eye opening, and you know
ninety nine percent of the people arethought they should have gotten fit years ago,
the ones that are starting out todo it. How often does it
change? So somebody gets fitted fromyou three years ago, is there is
there a change three years later?I suppose it depends on where they are
on their growth cycle, life cycle. If they're getting older, significantly older,

(51:24):
how does that change? I wouldsay some There are slight changes.
You know, some of the clubmanufacturers specifications from standard change year to year.
But I just fit a guy thatI fit fifteen years ago and the
only thing that changed he went alittle bit lighter on the shaft and a
little softer flex, but the lengthand the lie all stayed the same.

(51:45):
The set makeup change where he didn'tneed a three and a four iron anymore.
He started his set with a fiveiron. Travis, I'll finish with
this For those who want to doa fitting. You don't have to be
a member at TPC to be partof the lesson process or the fitting.
So how do they go up aboutit. The easiest way to find us
is either call the Golf Shop hereat TPC Wisconsin two four nine one thousand,

(52:06):
or you can go directly to ourwebsite TPC Wisconsin dot com and look
under the Golf Academy page and fillout an inquiry. All good stuff.
We continue more with talking Golf ina couple of minutes right here from TPC
Wisconsin. Watch some of the greatestnames in golf history, including tournament hosts
Steve Stricker, at the American FamilyInsurance Championship at University Ridge Golf Course Friday

(52:28):
June seventh through Sunday June ninth.Tournament week includes an exciting concert featuring three
time Grammy Award winning Train on FridayJune seventh at Bryce Stevensfield. Proceeds support
the Steve Stricker, American Family InsuranceFoundation and the American Family Children's Hospital.
Get your tickets at AMFAM Championship dotcom. That's AMFAM Championship dot com.

(52:49):
Why drive an ordinary car when forthe same monthly payment you could be driving
something extraordinary? Aaron Perkins, GeneralManagers in Brick Europeans. Imagine yourself behind
the wheel of a Mercedes Benz outPorsche more safety, performance and luxury and
way more fun and getting more costsless than you think. Zimbrac European makes
leasing affordable. Discover the value foryourself. Stop in and test drive a

(53:10):
Mercedes, benz Audi or Porsche today. Visit zimbrag European and find out why
leasing the car of your dreams makesso much sense. University Ridge has been
the proud host of the American FamilyInsurance Championship since twenty sixteen. We've enjoyed
working with the American Family team tocreate nine years of magical moments at University
Ridge. Open to the public andconsistently considered one of the best values in

(53:35):
the country. University Ridge is dplaced for golf in southern Wisconsin. Book
your tea time up to ninety daysout online at Universityridge dot com. Play
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(54:00):
to take that first step and learnmore, turn to the experts. At
Oak Park Place. You'll meet acompassionate team who will help residence fine purpose
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Visit oak Parkplace dot com to learnmore. Crapes. Do you spend

(54:23):
more time searching for your ball thanactually playing well? Listen up. Clary
has the perfect solution for you.The Clarygolf Getaway is the perfect addition to
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(54:44):
Hi, I'm showing Clary. Weall need a little getaway, so
why not go for the green witha new Clary building. If you're a
golfer who likes a challenge, considerbeing a member at TPC Wisconsin. The
course provides you with a very challengingeighteen who layout that makes you before you
hit your next shot. After yourround, you can relax at the completely

(55:04):
renovated clubhouse. The new facility includesthree restaurants, tennis courts, driving range,
and programs for juniors, plus othergreat amenities. Are you up for
the TPC Wisconsin Challenge? For detailson becoming a member six oh eight two
four nine, one thousand, andwe're back at TPC Wisconsin along with Mike

(55:45):
Keller and Dennis Dizziati. I'm PaulBrown.'tis We've got a little time
to fill in a couple of things. We're going to go back. I
want to go back, just brieflyto the foursome situation in terms of talk,
looking at the local level, howyou can speed up the game.
Dennis, there's ways you can dothat. For an example, if you're

(56:05):
in a cart, don't park thecart on this side of the green.
Park it around the side or aroundthe back. If you've got to force
the play ready golf ready golfs.In other words, if Mike is hitting
and I'm over on the other sideof the fairway, get over there and
get in position. As soon asMike hits, then I hit. That
kind of thing is there are otherthings you can do to speed up the

(56:27):
game well, from a maintenance standpoint, don't make it so hard, you
know, get you don't need toput the pins in places, especially now
green speed and everything else that's takenup. You take a look what's happening
even here now ten and a halfeleven people are staying longer on the green
Putton more times. You know,I'm not saying reduce the speed or anything,

(56:51):
but make it so it's a littlebit, but make our people aware
of it. But I think youneed out on the course people to move
people along, because I that's what'sgoing on here. To go off to
the side. One guy's watching lookingfor balls, looking for his ball,
and there's three guys up here lookingfor balls. Well, you burned up
five minutes looking for you have tomove along, so you got to keep
those moving on. But the distanceis another story. People want to play

(57:15):
from all the way back. Ijust left the guy here. Now you're
going to play, he says,Yeah, I'm gonna play from the twos.
Well, there's no way right sixtyeight hundred yards. Where's he going
with that? You know? Sodistance is one thing anything, Mike,
Yeah, I mean I think thegame has always been about people understanding etiquette

(57:37):
and also understanding when it's their turnto play, right, you know,
and there's too much time spent.Oh is it my turn? No,
it's your turn, No, it'smy turn. Just go ahead, ready,
ready, if you're ready to go, go. You don't have to
have the honor system on the teaunless you're playing for money or playing a
game. You know the honor systemon a tee. If you're to the
tee, tee it up, let'sgo. You don't have to wait for

(57:58):
the person that had the power ona lene told to play first. One
other subject we want to cover herebefore we end the Memorial Day show.
Dennis on your behalf, you decidedto do something. There's an opportunity for
people to come if you're not amember and play golf here at TPC Wisconsin.
You can come as a foresome.The foresome cost is one thousand dollars,

(58:22):
but it's a donation to the GolfFoundation of Wisconsin, correct and that
money the proceeds go to different groupslike the inner city, the rural,
and the competitive girls golf academies,plus the Golfer give Back program. And
here's some of the specifics on howyou can put together a forsome. Get

(58:43):
yourself and three other players and come. It's tax deductible. They're only sold
as a forsome. There's a limitof one per person you can purchase at
one time, and there's a limitednumber of tea times available. If anybody
out there is listening or watching onYouTube and you'd like to play it.

(59:04):
Details called Travis Becker or Kelsey atTPC Wisconsin at six eight two four nine
one thousand. They'll give you allof the details. There's limited times available.
What a great concept. It's adonation to a five oh one C
three and you're gonna play around ofgolf while you're just just by making the
donation. The donation is it's agood it's going to have an impact.

(59:27):
So it's a really good deal forDave McCann along with Mike Keller, Dennis
Tizziani. I'm Paul Brown. HappyMemorial Day for you and your family.
And that's talking golf for now,and we bid you farewell from TPC Wisconsin in