Talking Golf 8-11-25

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Golf at TPC Wisconsin is on the air. Talking Golf
is brought to you by American Family Insurance, Oak Park Place,
Wild Rock Golf Club, Mercedes Benz of Madison, TPC, Wisconsin University,
Ridge Golf Course, Ridge Top Exteriors, Southern Italy Imports and

(00:20):
Novada Bob's Now, here's your foursome for Talking Golf. Wisconsin
Golf Hall of Famer Dennis Tizziani, Wisconsin Broadcaster hall of Famer,
Paul Brown, Wisconsin premier golf reporter Gary Demato and host
of his daily statewide sports talk show, Mike Keller.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Come in. We got a couple of these left tonight
and one week from tonight, just two more golf shows
remaining in Talking Golf for the season on Mike Keller,
Paul Brown, a dense Tizziani. They're worried about something else
right now, sharing text messages and.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
I'm just looking at his text messaging.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
That'sans in to show. Come on, I got a real
you guys in justin Rose one Round one tournament one
of the FedEx playoffs yesterday at TPC South Wind just
outside of Memphis, Tennessee. That was a great golf playoff
holes They played the eighteenth twice and I guess I've
never noticed this before before. We welcome in our first guest.

(01:21):
They moved they cut a new pin when they played
the third playoff hole, they moved it to a different
spot on the green. And I guess I just had
not seen that before. I mean, is that have you
seen that before, Dennis, where they cut a new hole location?

Speaker 4 (01:35):
No, not a playoffs, not that it makes a difference.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
It probably doesn't know, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:39):
But I don't know why. You know, maybe just because
they were used.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
To well and and at that playoff they decided that
they were going to play the same hole over and
over and over again, and after the second time, they
decided to recut the pin. By the way, on the
show today, in our second segment, Gary Demato will join us,
and then we will talk with Mario. Is he Annie
who had Top thirty five finished over the weekend as well.

(02:05):
He'll join us. Then, Paul, you get to introduce our
first guest.

Speaker 6 (02:07):
Is he on?

Speaker 3 (02:08):
We have Steve with us, very good. Steve Winsloff is
with us, who was part of the design team. Steve
Stricker also involved in that 'tis as well. Steve Winsloff,
one of the premiere guys in the country that does this. Steve,
Welcome to the show. We appreciate you coming on here. Steve.

(02:30):
The course isn't even two years old yet at this point,
but you were up here a couple of days ago
or a week or so ago and looked at it.
What's your evaluation of what you see and does it
fit the image of what you projected it would wind
up being.

Speaker 7 (02:47):
Yeah, I appreciate you having me on. Thank you very much.
As always, I was glad to get a chance to
get back up there to see you see Wisconsin. Last
time I was there was during the tournament weekly midweek actually,
and I mean, I think it's great to watch any
facility go from you know, the transition that it's made

(03:10):
from what it was into what it is and a
year later host a p Bay Tour champions event. That's
not a not an easy feat to undertake. And I
commend you know, Dennis and the whole team Eric Leonard
and being able to one prepare the golf course for
the membership and to ultimately get it ready to have

(03:30):
hosted the the American Family Insurance Championship, which from everything
I understand was a was a great week, and then
get a chance afterwards to come back and just sort
of take a look at it, see how the golf
course has recovered from the event, and ultimately take some
of the information that we learned from just watching the

(03:50):
event and getting feedback from some of the prospective players
and going around with Steve and talking about some additional
potential modifications a little cosmetic surgery, nothing major.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
Before we talk about the modifications. What overall was the
reaction that you've heard from wherever your sources are, be
it players, people in golf, how the word is spreading whatever.

Speaker 7 (04:18):
Well, the primary source of my feedback that I received
was in person with players, going around soliciting feedback from
from players, and it was overwhelmingly positive. There wasn't actually
a negative comment to be found, either by myself or
Steve that I'm aware of. And I've been doing this

(04:41):
for twenty eight years and make a living making you know,
little modifications or trying to get architects to you know,
to understand the nuance of how the game is played
at our level, and it's a challenge trying to blend
the architectural side with the you know, with just the functionality.
I didn't, you know, not push the envelope too far,

(05:02):
and it was extremely satisfying to have the players express
nothing but positive feedback from their time there. And that
was during the weekend, even even post tournament.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
Talking to Steve Winslof, one of the lead designers here
along with Steve Stricker. Steve, it's Mike Keller. Let me
let me ask you about you got to quote when
the course opened saying that in terms of how it
will play, it'll play like a southern United States coastal club,
obviously right here in Dane County. Is that how you
feel now, because now we're looking at two years later,

(05:37):
and how does a golf course evolve over that period
of time two years now, just over two years ago
it opened.

Speaker 7 (05:45):
Yeah, I mean, really what we're striving for in the
game of golf in general. You know, the way the
game of golf was originally conceived was more of a
ground game than how it's evolved early and a lot
of Scottish links courses are still played that way. That's
the way. It's just the ground and the grasses help

(06:05):
to help promote that when you transition out of that
locale and and start moving around, you know, different countries
and different states within the US. You know, it's hard
to find sites and ultimately be able to do that.
And here we started on a swampy site. I'll call
it swampy at that time. You know, obviously it's surrounded

(06:26):
by by beautiful Cherokee marsh, you know, and uh, it
just just wants to try to revert back that way
so to be able to to modify that and rectify
that condition and be able to find you know, a
great glacier sand underneath the underneath that peat moss that
was there and put that back on the surface to
create firm conditions to allow a game to be played

(06:48):
that way, you know, by those who choose to play
it is great and that hand helps handle all the
foot traffic, cart traffic, maintenance equipment, you know, and and
the way the golf courses are played and maintained today.
And one of the main things that that Steve promoted,
you know, in this design process that he wanted to

(07:09):
bring to the membership into his membership is ground game
around the greens complexes themselves and you know, runoffs coming
off the greens into these closely mown areas surrounding the
greens and the type of recovery shots that can be
played at both the professional level and the amateur level,
and those closely mown areas typically play more challenging for

(07:35):
the professional golfer because there's so many different ways they
can execute that recovery shot and really helps promote different
opportunities for the amateur golfer as well as they can
put it, they can hit a three wood, whatever they can,
they can you know, help recover from those areas as well.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Steve, I think that you kind of jumped me on
my next question, but let me ask about the collaboration
on the Green complex. Is it Steve Stricker certainly wanted that.
Then how do you work in design collaboration? We're talking
about three four years ago or further than that, going
back in time to make sure that your expertise and

(08:12):
his desire come together and are congruent in what you
want to get.

Speaker 7 (08:18):
Yeah, it's just spending a lot of time with him
and talking about differing clubs that he's played, courses he's
played that at the effect of what he was trying
to create, what's prevalent, and I can analyze that and
understand that take the information that we have, statistical information,
we've had feedback that we've gotten from from other courses

(08:39):
that have been built and have been played on the
various tours to understand those nuances, Like there's a certain
certain degree of slope coming off of a green that
if it's too steep, you're there's really only one type
of recovery shot and that's over that slope onto the
putting surface.

Speaker 8 (09:00):
But if the.

Speaker 7 (09:00):
Slope is long enough, gentle enough, then you can bump
a shot into the slope and release onto the putting surface.
There's different ways to hit that recovery shot. If it's
too soft, then basically anybody can just put up the
slope as well. So he's just trying to go through
through his mind of where he's played and different attributes

(09:21):
to different courses that he wanted to try to project
their at Deep Sea Wisconsin.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Steve, I remember a couple of years ago when we
had you on the show, and obviously the actual course
construction hadn't been begun at that particular point, and I
remember asking you a question and what kind of a
course is it? And that type of thing, and you
said number one. As we were landlocks or we had
to rebuild it within the confines of what we had.

(09:48):
And you said two things about it. One is you say,
made many many golf courses in America. You said, they
have a whole or two where you just grip it
and rip it, don't worry about it. And number two
is you're going to have to think on every shot.
And at the time I thought, hmm, that's kind of interesting.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
You know what he achieved that.

Speaker 7 (10:18):
Thanks, Yeah, you know, one of the things there is is, yeah,
we you know, we went into the permit process with
a few few sort of bigger thoughts about how to
sort of potentially reroute the golf course, recreate the marshes
and wetland areas. You know, ended up where we did,
which was, you know, sort of sticking with more of

(10:39):
what was existing out there and and enhancing those existing wetlands,
which meant and the golf corridors for the most part,
stayed where they were, and those golf corridors were relatively
sort of straight golf corridors, So the whole still today
Peter Green are relatively straight, but features that you can

(10:59):
put in between the two points, you can help to
create sort of a fair way that moves left to right,
right to left, sometimes both different directions to get a
player to think about hitting a left to right t
shot or right to left approach shot. And it's just
the features that you can build into that ground plane
to try to help change some of the straight straightness

(11:21):
of the existing corridors out there.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Tis let me ask you a question on the evolution
of a golf course. This golf course is literally two
years and ten days old from the time it opened.
Golf courses evolve over time. How will this evolve?

Speaker 4 (11:37):
Well?

Speaker 5 (11:39):
I like what Steve and Steve are doing. Yeah, they're
coming together and putting these little tweaks together. But the
greatest part about it is that you know, every time
Steve would come out here, it cost.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Me fifty grand with Steve.

Speaker 5 (11:54):
Between west Off and Steve. Now they got to figure
it out where Steve's fan. So if I kind of
like it, I kind of like it the way it is.
But some of the little tweaks that we're doing now
are going to be really good. And they've already made
some major tweaks on this thing. But if you know,
to move three hundred and fifty thousand cubic yards of

(12:15):
dirt and get it to look like this phenomenal. We
had all this rain. Other courses in the area were closed,
some aren't going to open up till Friday. We had
carts out yesterday yesterday, right after it rained. So they
did a phenomenal job in taking this thing. And the

(12:36):
other part is is that and I kind of feel
bad about this. Friends of Cherokee Marsh and those people
that we did this work for. These people did a
phenomenal job and containing the water, making sure it comes
back here water leaving water to clarity level is better
than it was in nineteen sixty eight. That the administration,

(12:59):
those people here never once, never once said anything positive
about why we started this to begin with, which was
the environmental concept. And when we talked to Steve, Steve,
to Steve Winslow, he did this work up in Blaine
very much the same. And I'm opened that somewhere along

(13:20):
the line before too long all the people that are
affected by what we've done here come out and say
what a good job was done.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
Good luck with that way, by the way, I know it,
I know it, I know Steve. If you can, and Dennis,
what are the small tweaks you're talking about you mind.

Speaker 4 (13:36):
Talking about it. We're not going to tell you.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
We're not telling us.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
Maybe Steve will tell us. Maybe Steve will tell you.

Speaker 5 (13:43):
Well, number one on whole, Number one, I'm we're going
to take the mounds on the right and reduce them
so it's more of a straight fairway shot there.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
Yeah, well.

Speaker 7 (13:57):
Where time landing areas.

Speaker 5 (14:00):
Yeah, we get over to number six, we're talking about
putting another T in in front of the existing back
t's short of the water. It'll be about thirty five
yards shorter, which would be pretty good, and positions such
of the fairway, even though it works out, opens up better.

Speaker 7 (14:20):
Number twelve, increasing the setup flexibility just through the width
of the water body between our championship te's and the
number t's right.

Speaker 4 (14:30):
Number twelve, this is the one.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
A lot of people are interested in number twelve right now.

Speaker 4 (14:35):
Waiting to hear we're going to widen the water so you.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
Can't just for you, they're going to move the left
handed t's further back ball.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
But no, seriously, a lot of golfers, right, a lot
of golfers have questions.

Speaker 4 (14:49):
We want to take out the trap on the right.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
That's not what they're talking about they're talking about the
number three T. For a lot of people, it's difficult
to hit it across the water.

Speaker 4 (14:58):
Then hit it short. I know, I know, the hell's
a problem.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
Were they were hoping to hear that there might be
a tea? They just move up to move up to
the five T. About twenty got to carry it.

Speaker 7 (15:10):
There's two more I think, more options.

Speaker 5 (15:13):
And we're thinking about I think we're thinking about doing
something with the bunker on the left.

Speaker 7 (15:19):
Maybe we're still going back and forth now, but the
main thing is is we'll create Yeah, the premise behind
these modifications actually is is you know where we may
have gone just a little too far in the design
and just dialing it back just a little bit, making
a little bit more playable. And so the twelfth eliminating
the right bunker hiding the fairway. So when you do

(15:42):
make it across the creek, you gotta the water target
to land into.

Speaker 4 (15:46):
Just hit it short. That's one hundred and eighty hours.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
But what you need to do is extend that number
three and t abot ten yards up toward the water.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
Just move up the four. That's a whole different hole.
Number thirteen. You know it's not made for left handers.
That's the problem, you know, you know number thirteen. We
want to put a bunker in the back left hand
corner kind of right across from the more of a
vision bunker more.

Speaker 7 (16:14):
Than any back left green screen side bunker for a
for a left for the back left pen.

Speaker 4 (16:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (16:19):
Yeah, that'll be pretty good. And there's one more now
I had it before and I forgot about it happens.

Speaker 7 (16:24):
To be on you know, you want me to refresh
your memory?

Speaker 4 (16:28):
Which after thirteen what after third three holds later.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
We talked about sixteen sixteen.

Speaker 5 (16:37):
Yeah, we're going to fix the bunkers on the left
to make them a little bit wider.

Speaker 7 (16:42):
Yeah, we're gonna we'll actually widen the approach a little
bit more. As Steve watched shots from his piers get up,
you know, try to get up on that putting surface
the way he was canted, just felt they need a
little bit more room up there. So again another player
friendly little modification.

Speaker 4 (17:00):
Good.

Speaker 5 (17:01):
We'll be the plan for the next rays of two
hundred bucks a month.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
Oh is that what you're doing? Boy?

Speaker 4 (17:09):
I'll get so many texts on.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
That one listener feedback and three two one.

Speaker 5 (17:15):
This will be pretty these are pretty good. You know,
we're really touching it up and it's scared. It's it's
really going to it's there's a big benefit to our
member average player, because you know, it's not a course
for everybody.

Speaker 4 (17:30):
Yeah, it is kind of.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
Trying to tell you that every time we talk about it.

Speaker 5 (17:34):
Well, I'm telling them what this one guy told me.
You know, Steve has a guy played here in an
outing here yesterday or this past weekend, and he numbers
his golf balls one through twenty five.

Speaker 4 (17:48):
No, no he didn't. He was. He lost twenty four
last year. This year only lost fifteen.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Oh he got better.

Speaker 4 (17:55):
Well, these guys are unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
Ste Steve's love. Let me finish with it. Just a
sense of when you were back on site when that happens,
and that happened obviously earlier this spring. The sense of
pride you have on a project that you could get
to revisit for years, to come to come back and
see what was in the imagination and the creativity, and

(18:18):
then to see it being played and being enjoyed and
to revisit How cool is that for you?

Speaker 7 (18:24):
Oh, it's awesome. And that's that's you know, that's why
we do. What we do in the golf course design
businesses is you know, put put take, take one hundred
and two hundred acres of land and put a recreational
sport on it that people can go out and enjoy
the outdoors. You know, in that area of Madison, you know,
it was great, you know, old Cherokee Marsh area surrounding it.

(18:46):
And just to be able to see, you know, when
I first worked in Blaine, that Minnesota that Dennis had
just mentioned, I did understand growing up in South Florida,
the dynamics of the outdoor life to people who live,
you know, in the upper parts of the United States,
and to see how it how it is, and they
all love the outdoors. It doesn't matter sometimes where there's

(19:08):
winter time, they still like the outdoors and go sit
in ice chalet and go fishing. Now that doesn't quite
entice me. You haven't quite ticed me yet the winner
up that way. But to see everybody you know enjoying
the outdoors out there, that's what it's all about. And
you know, and it's tough when you look at what
we do is we're taking literally and thinking about every
square foot of this case. Here one hundred and fifty

(19:30):
some odd acres and trying to think about how to read,
contort from what it was, and repurpose it strategically. You know,
sometimes it's not easy to do. You get hopefully, you know,
you hope you get most of it right. In this
case here, I think we got a lot of it right.
It was actually just that PPC Sawgrass today out with
Davis Love going around the golf course there, and he
talked to me how much he really liked it. And

(19:52):
you know the feedback actually, you know that we got
for we actually got some feedback from him on that
first hole from what he you watch from his PRORAM
guess when he played in the program, So he gave
some of that feedback to Steve there is leading to
the modification on the first hole.

Speaker 4 (20:09):
Mister Hiller, right, I'm very positive.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
I believe.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
So it's your show, Steve, with golf in the future,
as you look in your crystal ball and look at
it from the design standpoint of golf courses, what do
you see as one of the biggest challenges you will have?
And I will use as an example number two here,
which is a par five. Apparently within the last week

(20:35):
somebody hit a drive and a pitching wedge on a
par five. What does that do to designing golf courses
of the future.

Speaker 7 (20:46):
Makes you again think about how you contour the ground,
you know, and it's hard sometimes when you've got constraints left,
constraints right, how vertical you can go and you don't
want to make it over the penal, you know, and
the fact that they you know what they've hopefully scored

(21:07):
a hopefully you know, with those two shots versus part it.
But yeah, that's but that's what the game of golf
is about in the end, is the dynamics of the
highs and the lows, you know, between evil opportunities and
the par five and you know, bogie's and risk rewards,
and we wanted that par five there to to give
you a little bit more risk in going for it,

(21:29):
which it does. But you know, the dynamic is hard,
and especially in the world that that I live and
you know, working and watching the best players in the
world execute their skill set. But yet know that when
they leave the week after, you you know, the regular
amateur golfers returned back to that golf course and you've

(21:50):
got to try to find the balance between the two.
It needs to be fair and playable and enjoyable for
the business purpose of the venue. But yet you know,
try to exact a challenge for the best players in
the world. And the way I like to focus on
it is actually on the agronomics side that you know,

(22:11):
there's certain pendulums that you can push, and if you
push the design too far, then the agronomics can't go
too far. Otherwise you go off the cliff. But if
I take the design tone it back a little bit
and you let the agonomics can ebb and tide with,
they can peak when the best players in the world
are there, and then you can dial it back a

(22:32):
little bit for the amateur guess and make it more playable.
So to me, that's sort of my design philosophy I
try to take and preaches don't push the design to
the edge because then there's very little flexibility and what
you can do with the aconomics side of it.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Steve, what a pleasure to visit with you again. Thanks
for jumping in with us on this Monday night, and
we'll look forward to the next time we get to
do it.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
Thanks Steve.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Steve Winslow, one of the course designers here at TPC Wisconsin.
It did open. It opened two years and ten days ago.

Speaker 5 (23:08):
That crazy is there's some different there's some different things
that are happening with this course. It's a tournament course. Yeah,
the senior tournament is a nice tournament, but it's not
the tournament. And I think what you're going to see
coming forward is the quasi approached of a different type

(23:32):
of event that would be here. Cannot do it now,
but I'll tell you what over the next ten years.

Speaker 4 (23:40):
Yeah, it'll be a different type of deal.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
That's called the radio teas for a golf course right there.
And I don't know when we get to pay off
the teas, but it's not maybe we get coming up next.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
Maybe we'll get our jobs back.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (23:54):
Maybe the operative word was maybe maybe is right.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
Gary Demato is set to join us when we come
come back. This is talking golf at TPC Wisconsin.

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I've said that for years my statewide daily talk, so
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Gary Dematto from Wisconsin Dot Golf joins us. Well, Gary,
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(27:40):
in your pocket.

Speaker 8 (27:43):
I did go to the I did go to the
range and practice, and it's a move that Dennis taught
me that's going to take some time, I think, to
become sort of ingrained or natural. It feels feel strange
when I do it right, but that's probably alway should
because I've been doing it wrong for so long. And
went out and a couple of days ago and played
pretty good until the last three holes, I kind of

(28:05):
ran out of steam. But I definitely see some progress
and I'm really happy about that.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
Gary, let me ask you the current question. The southeastern
Wisconsin just had incredible record historic reigns over the last
three days, and my guess is that there are a
bunch of golf courses in the southeast corridor around Milwaukee
that are really having to dig out.

Speaker 8 (28:34):
Yeah, for sure, I mean, we have to put this
in perspective. First, there are people who have lost their
homes everything in their homes, or people who have been
had to be rescued from floodwaters, way more important than
what happens to a golf course. But having said that, yeah, yeah,
like the devastation to the golf courses, to a bunch
of them in southeastern Wisconsin is just it's indescribable. If

(28:56):
you go to Wisconsin dot Golf and go to the
sweet Spot column, we've posted a sort of a gallery
of photos from around southeast from Wisconsin some of the
flood damage on these courses, and some of them are
just I mean underwater.

Speaker 13 (29:10):
I mean.

Speaker 8 (29:12):
It's hard for me to believe that some of these
courses would be ready to be played in a week
or two. I think it's going to take some time
to get all the water out of there and get
the turf back so that it's you know, it's not
just completely soaked.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
'tis? The golf community is always taken care of one another.
I'm sure you've gone through significant storm damage historically here
and and I've seen others have to deal with it.
How can they help one another in the golf course
community as to what's going on in the Milwaukee area.

Speaker 4 (29:45):
Well, it's already happening.

Speaker 5 (29:46):
You're getting golf superintendents because of their association. Well, share workers,
we'll share equipment, and some of these head people will
make a trip down to go ahead and to augment
the decisions that are it made. But it's a pull
together that group, the Grease Pretendants Association. Very good group.

(30:06):
It's too bad though that I'm hearing that there are
nobody in the agronomy school at the university. So something
isn't right now this whole deal, you know, And you know,
I look at that and I'm saying, just a matter
of time before you know, I guess that.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Can more damage be done in a storm like this
with the rains or in a significant winter is one
of a greater concern in the golf course industry.

Speaker 5 (30:37):
No, not in the wintertime, because you know that the
ground temperature gets down below forty eight, nothing's growing. It'll
happen in the spring. However, if in fact you have
snow late and the snow repell or the snowmall preventive
that you put on wears out, then you may get some.

(30:58):
But you know, the nice part about grass rows back, sure,
and that is the thing here. But you know, when
you do water damage like this, you know you're really
ruining that grass of an opportunity to grow back. But
back to your question, this group Green superintendents, I mean,
we have them contacted here and make sure that golf

(31:22):
is taken care of. That's number one, and they really
have that. It's amazing, even though they are big and
there's agronomy big in their golf courses, how much they're
geared towards golf in general as a as a as
a sport.

Speaker 4 (31:37):
Gary.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
I heard on one radio station out of Milwaukee, and
I cannot confirm this, but they talked about the fact
that eight courses over there were underwater.

Speaker 4 (31:47):
Is that even close to being true?

Speaker 8 (31:50):
I think it's probably more than that, Paul. You know
they're throw out Monomine falls, throw Waukeshaw into Milwaukee, and
then you know east towards the lake. Just really devastation
in terms of flooding. Wisconsin Country Club. We're supposed to
have a semi finals and final of the Milwaukee District

(32:10):
Golf Association matchic Play Championship. They got twelve and a
half inches of rain and they had obviously had a postpone.
But you're seeing double digit inches of rainfall in some
of these areas and rivers overflowing, and it's just it's
been catastrophic, and I just I feel for the people
who are struggling now, who have lost all their possessions

(32:32):
and flooded basements and cars, you know, being completely submerged.
It's just it's amazing what's happened here in the last
few days.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Gary, let me finish on this, and I know that
you had sent me a note on a couple of
things that we were talking about. You've spent some time
up at Sand Valley and talked about playing Lido, and
it appears it sounds like they're not anywhere near being
done on the number of courses and the expanse of
that development. How far can they go?

Speaker 8 (33:03):
You know, that's a really good question. I think you know,
the demand is going to dictate, Mike, you know how
much golf they build. But they own fifteen thousand acres
right now, we're just under fifteen thousand acres. You can
put a lot of golf courses on fifteen thousand acres.
And not only that, but Michael Kaiser told me that
their goal is to own one hundred thousand acres in
the central sand Bear until Wisconsin, and he's talking about

(33:26):
five or six more golf courses, which would bring the
total to you know, ten or eleven golf courses, which
would make it one of the biggest golf resorts in
the world right here in central Wisconsin. And he also
told me he wouldn't be surprised if other developers come
in that part of the state and build you know,
resource golf because they're surrounded by two million acres of

(33:46):
sand and we all know that it's you know, sand
is the best you know, terrain and topography to grow
grants on and to build golf courses on. So I
think there's going to be a lot in twenty five years,
we're going to see a lot more golf in that
part of the state.

Speaker 5 (34:01):
Does that surprise you, No, not at all, especially when
you get a guy like that that has the vision
the financial capability to do that. However, you know, you
have to be a little bit careful of number of
people to keep it going. They are not going to
get all the business, and there's only so much of

(34:22):
that that's going to happen. And the other side is,
as you go further north, you know, June, July, August,
and September. Here you go sixteen weeks trying to make
a living. Now, the big item there is he sells
and where you make the money is in the rental
property where people are staying.

Speaker 4 (34:41):
Sure, and there's no question about that that the.

Speaker 5 (34:45):
Courses are like a bag pile, right, and a bag
pile that everybody comes with the place to stay. But
he's a friend, and uh, he's probably one of the
best golf course developers that I've talked to over the years.
Uh yeah, and he uh and he's really good, you know,
there's just no doubt about it, you know. Uh, Jack Guardian,

(35:08):
Jack Guardian's another one. These are great guys from a
possible for doing that. And so I'm sure that he's
looked at it. He's not stupid by any means, a
very bright guy that he'll get it. But you know
people are it's maybe you're gonna quit going up sure
forty three and and come on over here. Maybe next thing,

(35:30):
you know, you're gonna get the water and stuff like that.
But uh, it's what's really good about it is it's
picked up all the courses around him because people come there.

Speaker 4 (35:40):
Well, why don't we do it?

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yes, other places to do, right, Gary, We will check
him with you again one final time a week from
now and then Paul Brown. Paul doesn't even know this,
but but we're gonna pick a Tuesday in September and
have you come here, and Paul Brown and you and
I will go out and we'll even invite Dennis right
on the cart to laugh at us a little bit.

(36:02):
Play around golf again.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
I get a stroke ahole.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
Here we go.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
I get a stroke hole, right, I get a stroke hole.

Speaker 4 (36:09):
The cheating is already.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Happy goodness. Yeah, thank you. We'll talk to you next week. Mario,
Mario Tizzioni is hanging in the wings. He'll be on
with us when we come back. This is talking golf
at TPC Wisconsin.

Speaker 11 (36:23):
Thank you Wisconsin for supporting the twenty twenty five American
Family Insurance Championship. This year's events debuted a new team
competition and a new location at TPC Wisconsin. Congratulations to
the winning team of Darren Clark and Thomas Bjorn. The
pair shot thirty two under over the fifty four whole event,
securing the team title with a final round score of
seven under sixty four. Mark your calendars for the twenty

(36:44):
twenty six American Family Insurance Championship, which returns to TPC
Wisconsin June fifth through the seventh. Stay up today on
all things AMFAM champ at AMFAM Championship dot Com.

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Back on, guys, O the time. It's so good. I
imagine our next guest has heard some of the things

(39:40):
we just heard during a commercial.

Speaker 4 (39:41):
He's not surprised.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
Why anything is.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Dad, Mario Tiziani. Mario, thanks for spending time with us.
You can imagine what a commercial break is like here
with your dad.

Speaker 16 (39:51):
I only imagine, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Yeah, we'll take it no further. Appreciate you spending some
time with us, always paying attention to what you're doing
on tour. Sixty eight, seventy three, seventy two over the weekend,
a finish at a time for thirtieth give us a
sense of where you are in your game as we
get this deep into the month of August. And if

(40:16):
if a weekend like that pleases you, disappoints you, leaves
you wanting for more, how do you how do you
come out of a weekend like that?

Speaker 16 (40:26):
Yeah, no, I'm not super happy. It was uh yeah,
you know, my game has been pretty good. I've kind
of found a way to kind of mess it up
here and there, but I guess that's golf. But I'm
doing a lot of good things. I'm not I'm doing
a lot of the kind of the little easy things

(40:46):
not well, making a lot of bogies with you know, wedges,
things like that, which which is not In fact, I
made a triple last week with it.

Speaker 13 (40:57):
It was a.

Speaker 16 (40:58):
Pitching wedge actually, So yeah, I'm doing some things like
that that are not not leaving a good taste in
my mouth. But at the same time, I'm doing some
good things too. So yeah, I'm I'm excited to play
again this week. I'm up in Canada, and you know,
I played well here last year. And hopefully put it
all together. But yeah, I think it's it's close. It's

(41:19):
I feel like it's close.

Speaker 4 (41:22):
Mario.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
You've been around pro golfers for a long time now
in your career playing and that is a caddy and
that kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
Is it.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
Do any of them intimidate you? Or have you been
around long enough to just deal with it? How is
it not only having been a caddy but now as
a player in terms of the competition and the players.

Speaker 16 (41:43):
No, I'm not intimidated at all.

Speaker 8 (41:47):
No.

Speaker 16 (41:47):
I enjoy playing with the guys and and my game
stacks up to anybody out there really when I'm playing well,
and you know they're not judging I'm not judging it. It
doesn't you know, it doesn't really work like that. Okay, No,
I'm not intimidated at all. I know that my my
good golf is as good as anybody when it's there.
It's just not there as much. I've played with a

(42:10):
lot of great players, and no, I'm not intimidated at all.

Speaker 8 (42:14):
I don't.

Speaker 16 (42:15):
I don't haven't. We're talking about that.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
We were talking about that before the show a little bit,
and your dad mentioned that, and he said, you're there's
no question. With the answer to that, there was no question.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
I wasn't here for that conversation, but I might have
guessed that too. When you get pairings, are there certain
pairings that you get more excited for. I don't know
how much a conversationalist you are when you're playing competitive rounds,
but are there certain players that you enjoy being around
on the golf course more?

Speaker 8 (42:52):
Uh?

Speaker 16 (42:52):
Yeah, there is. You know, I'm a fan of the game, right,
So I've played with on Hell Cabrera again. Last week,
I played with him probably five or six times, and
he's one of the best players I've ever played with.
And I and I didn't see him in his prime,
but he's he's really good and just the way he

(43:14):
plays the game. He hits it hard, he's got great hands,
he's aggressive, he's a heck of a good guy. I
really like playing with him. I just he's just he's
a bit of a swashbuckler and he just plays hard
and and gets the ball in the hole and he
has bad shots, but he's fascinating guy to play with.

(43:37):
I mean, I just think he's he's literally one of
the best best golfers I've ever played with. And I
love playing with him, and and you know there's other
guys too that played great, but for whatever reason, I
really like playing with him. I just think he's really
really good at golf.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
I saw your your brother in law, Steve, working a
little bit with Nikki this morning, and we're all been
pulling for him. I know he had a procedure and
is moving better. How much conversation have you had with
him and the struggles away from the game this summer
for him.

Speaker 6 (44:16):
Yeah, I have.

Speaker 16 (44:17):
I had a lot, you know, the last since he
got that surgery on Tuesday, and I haven't seen him
in person, but just in his his voice, how much
different it is since the surgery, how much happier he
is already. I mean, he's a positive guy as we

(44:38):
all know. But me, even at the Anthiam Championship, he
just yeah, you could tell he just wasn't himself and
it was a drag and he didn't want to be
out there only because he couldn't play up to his potential.
I shouldn't he didn't want to be out there. He did,
he wanted to be out there, but he wanted to
be at his best and he just wasn't and he
couldn't and I think, yeah, I think just he's he

(45:01):
was frustrated, and yeah, he just seems so much better
since Tuesday. Already just excited to be kind of mobile,
a little bit more mobile and feeling feeling better just
a week week after the procedure.

Speaker 3 (45:16):
Mario, you're involved with Steve as his representative and that
type of thing. You've got a successful career outside of playing.
Now you're playing, Uh, how's the balance of that going?
And uh, do you any have any future thoughts on
where this goes?

Speaker 4 (45:33):
This whole thing?

Speaker 16 (45:36):
Yeah, I wish I knew you know this. This golf
part is, you know, there's not there's not much of
a of a of a crystal ball. Really, they kind
of you know, the way the tours run, you have
to play well to play next year. And and really,
I mean even if I won, I really only have
next year. So they really don't They really don't give

(45:58):
you much of a much of away. So yeah, I'm
just playing, having fun. I'm trying to do the best
I can. I'm working hard, and you know, we'll see,
we'll see what happens. I mean, I need to get
going a little bit. I don't know how much more
I'm going to get in, So yeah, I've got every
week's important and who knows, you know, it could be
could be all done at the end of this year,

(46:20):
but it is what it is, you know. I just
I can only only take care of what's in front
of me and and you know, my play and where
I finish will dictate what happens next year.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
Mario. It's interesting and curious as to your response on this.
We we dovetailed the Scotti Scheffler's comments a few weeks
ago at the Open Championship and had a little bit
of that conversation with Nicky and then with Bobby and
your dad has weighed in on not letting the game
of golf define you, which is really difficult for all

(46:57):
of us, whether you're a nine handicap or or you're
playing on the PGA Tour champions to not let the
game define you. How difficult is that as a process
for somebody that kind of does it for a living.

Speaker 16 (47:12):
Yeah, I think it's hard. I mean, this is all
we've really done, right, is golf, And I don't I
don't think that I'm concerned of how people see me
as a golfer, But like myself, it's how I define myself.

(47:33):
I think you know how I play, and you know
how I stack up against everybody else is how I
define myself as a golfer. And you know, if I'm
successful or not now as a person, you know, I
don't it doesn't define me as who I am as
a person, right for sure. I don't know if I'm

(47:53):
answering a question, But yeah, I think it's hard to
just just say, you know, what I finished thirtieth, You know,
it doesn't matter. I I'm pissed and and I want
and I'm better than that, and I want to work
hard and I want to you know, I want to
get to the next week and I can't wait for Friday,
and I want to compete, and and because because you
work hard and you know what's in there, So for

(48:16):
me to wake up every day, like yeah, my golf
defines what I'm doing. It's what I'm working on. So
it's kind of like you work hard at the job
if you're if you're not making any money, it kind
of defines you, doesn't it.

Speaker 6 (48:29):
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, I work in radio, but I mean
I wouldn't say, you know, as a human being, I don't.

Speaker 16 (48:39):
I don't show up if I finished in last place.
I'm not I'm not houring into the next site wondering
how people think of me. I don't care about that,
you know, that's I just hopefully everybody's beyond that.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
I don't know if I'm a wonder house, but yeah,
I know you have. I just wonder how alterate competitive people,
how you fill the void when the competition that you've
lived for so many years goes away. And I wonder
that with a football player, when they step away from
the game, can they fill the void in business and

(49:13):
development and things that they get into because you've spent
your whole life competing physically in a game that we play,
and then, yeah, definition kind of goes away. Sometimes when
they leave the game or their retiring in other sports.
They do it much earlier in life than you do.

Speaker 16 (49:29):
Yeah, yeah, and I did, And I didn't play for
ten years, and I guess I filled it.

Speaker 8 (49:35):
I didn't.

Speaker 16 (49:35):
It wasn't my goal, but you know, I competed. I
competed it to sign players, and I competed with trying
to identify talent, right like some of these guys thought
they could identify talent. They've never keeed it up, and
it was interesting to you know, I think I've I
just felt like I saw in tangibles better. I just

(49:56):
felt like I was better at it. And so I
guess I filled that void with competing on that side
of it. And and then of course, like you know,
in negotiations, competing, you know, whether it's an equipment equipment
contract or whatever it was. I mean, I guess you
just you just figured it out. In business, you compete,

(50:18):
you know. But I like this a lot better. I
mean this, I know, I know I'm good at and
it's frustrating not to not to show it honestly as
much as I feel like I should. And you know,
it's there's guys that are up there every single week,
and I and I, you know, I racked my brain
to figure out why I'm not one of those guys.

(50:41):
I'm not, and I'm okay with it, but you know,
I really I hope I get more time because I
if I can figure it out, I think I could
be a top player.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
Mario. It's always good to have a chance to visit
with a lot. We'll be watching from Canada this week
and continued. Good luck to you and we'll talk again soon.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
Thank you.

Speaker 16 (51:03):
Yeah, thanks for having me on.

Speaker 4 (51:05):
Thanks Mario, take.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Care of Mario Chiziani joining us. Well, we got one
more segment to go up to, probably combine it into
one segment because we've we've talked a lot with our
guests tonight, probably more than we have it any other time.
So we'll come back wrap things up here in a
couple of minutes talking golf at TPC Wisconsin.

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Isn't that right, Joel, Your game, your store always at
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Speaker 11 (51:37):
Thank you Wisconsin for supporting the twenty twenty five American
Family Insurance Championship. This year's events debuted a new team
competition and a new location at TPC Wisconsin. Congratulations to
the winning team of Darren Clark and Thomas Bjorn. The
pair shot thirty two under over the fifty four whole event,
securing the team title with a final round score of
seven under sixty four. Mark your calendars for the twenty

(51:58):
twenty six American Fan Only Insurance Championship, which returns to
TPC Wisconsin June fifth through the seventh. Stay up to
date on all things AMFAM champ at AMFAM Championship dot Com.

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Speaker 7 (54:21):
Isn't that right?

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Joel?

Speaker 10 (54:22):
Your game, your store, always at the best price.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
Back with you one final time tonight and then one
more week to go on talking golf for the five season.
Can you believe it? Dennis, We're almost done. You're almost
done with us. Then we go into renewal talks.

Speaker 4 (54:44):
Thank goodness.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
It talks of next year twenty twenty six six old.

Speaker 4 (54:48):
We got a lot of yeah, lots of stuff going
for that.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
So they'll take them about that three months to decide.

Speaker 4 (54:55):
That'll be really cool baby, in a new.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
Place, in a new place, we might go over to
the the practice area.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
It's right, well, what is uh?

Speaker 2 (55:03):
And then let's in our ninety seconds we have left.
Let's get a little update on what's going on at
the practice area of the new indoor facility, which will
be fully operational here, well it is for many, but not.

Speaker 5 (55:14):
We need two stalls to be completed, completed meaning putting
the turf in, so they're there today and tomorrow it'll
be done. And we've got the sidewalk and to go
in not this week but next week and then it's
the fire lane turnaround and we're ready to go. So
we're going to be in good shape, you know, come November.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Yeah, when there's no flies, there's gonna be a lot
going on over there for members at TPC Wisconsin to
be able to enjoy a winter that has a lot
of golf in it.

Speaker 5 (55:43):
Oh yeah, Well those track men and stuff like that
is pretty good. And I know they're talking about a
league and stuff like that, so it'd be interesting things
to go. And has its own liquor license, so it's
a whole separate.

Speaker 4 (55:54):
Entity over there and really cool. You know what's going on.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
We'll looking forward to it. You're gonna come back and
do this next week on our final show or that.

Speaker 5 (56:02):
Might be back okay, all right, you know, we'll see
what let us know, we'll see what happened, let us
know if not, let.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
Us know if we're back for next year, and then
we'll decide if next week it'll be aut we'll have
the review after after next.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
Year, and then two weeks from now, the week after
the final show, that'll be our Left Hander Show. Two
weeks from.

Speaker 4 (56:21):
That's when it'll be uh, no TV, no lights, and.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
No radio, no radio. That's our Left Hander Special. Two
weeks from now, tune in for that one. We'll be
back one final time. Next week. It's Talking Golf at
TPC Wisconsin.

Speaker 11 (56:37):
Thank you, Thank you, Wisconsin for supporting the twenty twenty
five American Family Insurance Championship. This year's events debuted a
new team competition and a new location at TPC Wisconsin.
Congratulations to the winning team of Darren Clark and Thomas Bjorn.

(56:59):
The pair shot thirty two under over the fifty four
whole event, securing the team title with a final round
score of seven under sixty four. Mark your calendars for
the twenty twenty six American Family Insurance Championship, which returns
to TPC, Wisconsin June fifth through the seventh. Stay up
today on all things amfamchamp at AMFAM Championship dot com.

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Speaker 15 (57:49):
Sculpted by glaciers, played by champions, The University of Wisconsin
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You can reserve of your next round directly at University
Ridge dot com. Not enough time for golf? Enjoy our
excellent selection of Wisconsin golf merchandise, find tune your game
at our world class practice facility, or grab a bite

(58:10):
and drink at the w GRIW. Put University Ridge on
your calendar in twenty twenty five and play where the
Badgers Play. That's University Ridge golf Course.

Speaker 3 (58:19):
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Speaker 3 (59:20):
TPC Wisconsin is the Total People Center, offering you and
your family a totally enjoyable experience that includes a challenging
eighteen whole layout, a good variety of programs for junior golfers,
indoor and outdoor tennis, athletic performance center, swimming pool, luxurious
locker room, and spacious accommodations for family gatherings and weddings.

(59:40):
TPC Wisconsin a total People Center and a complete game
for the whole family. For membership details called Chicks oh
eight two four nine, one thousand,