Talking Golf 8-12-24

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Talking Golf at TPC Wisconsin is on the air farm
Talking Golf. He's brought to you by American Family Insurance,
TPC Wisconsin, Oak Park Place, Wild Rock Golf Club, Simbrick,
Mercedes Benz of Madison, also University Ridge Golf Course, Ridge

(00:21):
Top Exteriors, Cleary Building Corp. And Nevada Bobbs. Now from
the new home of TPC Wisconsin in Madison. Here are
the hosts of Talking Golf.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Member of the Wisconsin Golf Hall of Fame, the legendary
Dennis Tizziani, longtime Madison sportscaster Paul Brown, and Wisconsin sports
veteran and Steve Wife radio host Mike Callander.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
And we welcome you into TPC Wisconsin in Madison. I'm
Mike Keller, Dennis dezionies here. Paul's taking a nap. Actually,
Paul's not feeling very good. He's he got taking a
night away.

Speaker 4 (00:57):
You had to have no left handers.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
All left hand this week, it's an all right handed
show today. Gary Demado will join us in a bit
in about twenty minutes. We'll visit a little bit later
on with Travis director of instruction here, and then we'll
talk with Bobby Stricker later in the show. There was
a unique scenario that played out on the PGA Tour yesterday.
We were just talking about it briefly on air or

(01:21):
off the air before we started. Matt Kocher is trying
to maintain an exempt status on tour. He wasn't in
the running to win a tournament yesterday, but they didn't
blow a horn. They told them before they teed off
on the last hole that the sun has already set,
so it's up to you individually, and he's the only one.

(01:43):
He marked his ball after his t shot and came
back and played this morning part of one hole. Yeah,
and stuck around. But the reason was he's trying to
maintain status on the tour to be exempt, and moving
up a spot or two in the standings would have
done that.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
If he makes the putt. I think he moved up
on time, right, But that's the gig, you know. I mean,
he felt that he had to do it.

Speaker 5 (02:08):
But really yeah, I mean, god ba.

Speaker 4 (02:12):
But you know that's the deal. He's one of the
nicest guys you'll ever meet your life. Got a great family,
nice guy. I hope he does good. What is he
forty six? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (02:22):
He's out there a little bit now and and uh
so he'll be.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
He'll be forty six. Let's see, that means forty seven.

Speaker 5 (02:31):
Wild forty years or so forty came out here.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
I want to talk a little bit about some bigger
picture stuff, but uh, you had a member guest out
here at TPC Wisconsin over the weekend, and it's something
that you've been if you're in the golf world. Member
guests are a big part of what a club does
each year. It was your first is TPC Wisconsin and
a pretty good showing, full field obviously, and a lot

(02:57):
of people that had a lot of fun.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
They really liked it. You know. The course sells its itself,
you know. But then again, the service. I looked at
all our you know, the top level people there were
servicing them. The food was great, they went a round fabulous,
which was good, you know. I mean, you don't take
no five hour rounds playing right away. Uh you know.
I like the fact that I went out there for
about two minutes and I found about ten balls.

Speaker 5 (03:21):
You know, well that's gonna happen.

Speaker 4 (03:22):
They were out there for that. But I got about
three or four calls today from members. They really liked
it and look forward to next year. We're going to
do Friday and Saturday next year, not Saturday and Sunday.
So they liked that idea. But they really had a
good time. There were some good uh there was. There
was a fabulous.

Speaker 5 (03:43):
Winner there for Yeah, that's what I understand.

Speaker 4 (03:45):
Flight number flight number one.

Speaker 5 (03:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Uh, our guest last week Kathy and your daughter Nikki,
and they won the first flight.

Speaker 4 (03:54):
They did, you know, why are you doing this? Why
do we have to play the same teas? Why is this?
There was those two in the other one. Oh so
before they went, I said, well, I think next year
what we'll do probably is men only you know.

Speaker 5 (04:05):
Oh there you go.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
You should have seen Kathy.

Speaker 5 (04:09):
She was giving me the eye, you know.

Speaker 4 (04:12):
And because she can't get over you the business of
giving me all this stuff. And I said, look, you
either have to be really smart really stupid. Oh she
didn't like that. Here they come right now. It's funny.
Oh yeah, yeah they really are something.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
And and Nicky was playing in a term but that
Kathy was caddying for her today in Illinois.

Speaker 4 (04:33):
She's an alternate to get in, which was it's pretty good.
I'm glad to see that she's playing, not always rooting
for either Steve or the girls that she's playing, which
is really that's great.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
I want to have a little bit of a conversation.
You know how much I respect your golf knowledge. I
don't always agree with some of your opinions on golf,
but I respect your golf knowledge.

Speaker 5 (04:54):
It's problem we yes, it is we have in my world.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
In sports talk, we talk about coachs greatest of all times,
all the time. And one of the things I do
with quarterbacks in the NFL is somebody will say, well,
look at all the Super Bowls one and I always say,
this isn't an individual sport.

Speaker 5 (05:12):
Golfits tennis is.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
So when we talk about greatest of all times, I
would think that the argument.

Speaker 5 (05:17):
Is easier in golf. So here are.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
The most wins among tour players all time, and then
how many majors they wont. The most wins ever on
a PGA tour. Sam Snead eighty two total tournaments one
and seven majors over thirty years.

Speaker 5 (05:35):
Tiger is eighty two and fifteen.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
Jack was seventy three, fewer tournaments one but more majors
at eighteen. How do you value like now We talk
about this all the time. You measure money one and
people measure money one. That's the best player on tour,
But we're talking about the greatest player who has played
a who's your greatest player?

Speaker 5 (05:55):
And what criteria do you use?

Speaker 4 (05:57):
I look and see those people who did he play against? Yeah,
I mean Sneid had to beat about two or three people.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
Sneid is nineteen thirty six to nineteen sixty five. Those
are the years he won tournaments at speed was thirty years.

Speaker 4 (06:08):
He was good. There's I spent a lot of time
with him. I spent a lot of time with him
in the locker room talking about his grip, how he
did his grip. And there was a time when I
watched him go out to hit balls. He played for Wilson.
So the Wilson salesman brought down some clubs for him
and he hit no. He said, no, this is I
told you they're D four. This is a D three.

(06:33):
Now hitting balls. You know, a swingweight is the weight
of a half a paper dollar bill. I mean he
could tell that. He could, so it was good at it.
But then again he owed to play a few people.
Tiger Tiger Woods had to play lots of people.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
Tiger wins from nineteen ninety six to twenty nineteen. As
a twenty four year span, he wins eighty two times
fifteen majors. Jack did it from sixty two to eighty six.
Over twenty five years. Jack has the nineteen runner ups
along with the eighteen major championships.

Speaker 5 (07:04):
Is so between Jack and Tiger.

Speaker 4 (07:07):
That's it. I think that's the end of it. But
Tiger's he's the guy.

Speaker 5 (07:11):
Tiger is the guy, best player.

Speaker 4 (07:12):
And when you talk about just golf, now, when you
add in what happens off the course, it's a different deal,
family life and all that sort of stuff. Different story.
Jack phenomenal, Yeah, he was, But Tiger woods by far.
If you just take golf, and I say by far,
there's nobody really close to him, even today when he goes.

(07:33):
You watch when he's swinging today, it's probably from an
instructor's standpoint and watching all the fundamentals. Even though he's
got a bad this and a baddad still it's the
best ever.

Speaker 3 (07:44):
And of the players that are in it now, the
only one who's active that's on this list of the
top eleven winners of all time is that other Lefty.

Speaker 5 (07:55):
You don't like so much Phil.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
Phil Mickelson, And I'm just cure as to you've watched
all these guys play Phil just on golf, now, not
on the other stuff, but just on golf.

Speaker 5 (08:06):
Where would he stack.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
Up on this list that includes Hogan and Palmer and
Byron Nelson, Billy Casper, Walter Hagen, Carry Middlecough, Tom Watson
In the bottom of that, you take.

Speaker 4 (08:17):
Away as Potter he had nothing. Yeah, that was his gig.

Speaker 5 (08:22):
He's also contemporary with Tiger, right, so he's hard for
him to win majors with Tiger out there.

Speaker 4 (08:28):
So he's not as good.

Speaker 5 (08:29):
Okay, Yeah, well he's not as good.

Speaker 4 (08:31):
Agree, And there's the other side of the coin where yeah,
I don't like the other side because the greatest of
all time means the greatest individual. Also, you got to
put that all together. Although we did. We happen to
have this guy here who won everything from day one.
I mean, you won an Open by how many strokes?

(08:52):
He won the Masters shot what at what age?

Speaker 3 (08:55):
And we don't talk, we don't count them, talk about
them often. But they also, like Jack and Tiger, both
won his amateurs the highest level. I mean, they were
the best golfer in America before they started casting checks.

Speaker 4 (09:09):
A lot of these other guys had real jobs, though.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, well that's all they knew, right, because there wasn't
the money on the tour.

Speaker 5 (09:16):
Actually, they probably made.

Speaker 4 (09:17):
More, if that's all you ever did. I mean there
were times when they make a guy that's close to home.

Speaker 5 (09:22):
Steve Stricker, Yeah, I've heard of that, dude.

Speaker 4 (09:25):
Yeah. No, he's really good. I mean he's really good.
But that's all he's ever done. Right, if that's all
you've ever done, you can put one percent of your
thought into that. Come on, you're going to be all right. Jack.
His dad, of course had the grocer, not grocery store,
but what do you call it? He had pharmacy at
the pharmacy, and he's a member there at this course.

(09:45):
And you know he had to bet one of the
best instructors all his whole life, so he knows nothing
but good fundamentals. But again, there's another guy. One putt,
one putt. They could put it, you know, Tom Watson. Yeah,
the key to their games were putting.

Speaker 5 (10:02):
Right.

Speaker 4 (10:02):
Tiger was a good putter, but you know, he wasn't
as good a putter as those guys. Nicholson probably one
of the better ones.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
Where does imagination come in to how great a player
is because they have to they have to create something
when they have to scramble. That's what I'm talking about,
imagination around the greens when they're in a little bit
of trouble. Obviously, you can watch clips of the great
highlights of Tiger hitting from impossible spots and hitting incredible

(10:32):
shots in and around the green, but from the fairway
as well.

Speaker 5 (10:35):
How much does imagination play in everything?

Speaker 4 (10:38):
You know, let's go back to a guy like Steve
If you ever watched what he does when he makes
caricatures out of matchsticks?

Speaker 5 (10:46):
Yeah, yeah, the hell ever know about that?

Speaker 4 (10:48):
But you watch that, so there's a different clue, you know.
And we used to go out and we used to
work on the shark game and stuff. If I do
this over here and do that, what the hell did
you come up with that?

Speaker 5 (10:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (10:58):
But you know that was what he did. Imagination is
a big deal. But then again we're back. Is that
all you did?

Speaker 5 (11:04):
Sure?

Speaker 4 (11:05):
That's all they did?

Speaker 5 (11:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (11:06):
Was that stuff? Arnold Palmer? You know you did other things? Yeah,
and there's some other players you mentioned under that, other
things that they did in left. That was not the
only thing.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
Yeah, when I go through that list, these are the
top eleven. Sam Sneid in tournaments one Sam Snead, then
Tiger than Jack Hogan, palmer Bybran Nelson, Billy Casper, Walter Hagen, Mickelson,
Kerry Middlecoff doesn't get talked about as much. And then
Tom Watson and Watson and Middlecoff both won thirty nine times,

(11:37):
Middlecough three majors, Watson eight majors. Those are the top
eleven winners of all time. But you talk about many
of those guys in that era that's talking about playing
in the forties fifties, they weren't making purse money. They
were making some money probably on the golf course, gambling
or you know, things of that nature.

Speaker 4 (11:55):
But or somebody was a sponsor Shirtlis, Yeah, and I played.
Nicholas was the leading money winner one hundred thousands. Yeah,
I mean you get a hundred thousand if you can
get out of your car in the parking lot. Now, well,
money has a lot to do with some of these guys.
You take a look at what happened George what's his name,
Bethe Fie, Jordan Speth, Jordan Speith, what happened to him?

(12:19):
And what happened to this guy and this guy? All
these good young players. But you see all of those guys,
I take a look at him. They were all fundamentally
bad issues.

Speaker 5 (12:29):
Sure. Yeah, But the other guys.

Speaker 4 (12:32):
We talk about Palmer, Yeah, his dad was a pro.
So you know Nicholas at Jack what's his name is
beat his teacher all the time. Yeah, you know, Steve
Stricker and somebody watching. So he doesn't know anything but
the right thing. Yeah, some of these other guys, you can.
I changed the club and I changed my swing and

(12:54):
I did this and what are you doing?

Speaker 5 (12:56):
Yeah? And you may disagree with this, but I've always thought.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
Also, years ago I interviewed Jack Nicholas about young players
coming up, and he said the real test. There are
great players, naturally born. They work at it all the time.
But he said some of the real tests is when
they get married and have a family, and now they
don't spend as much time on the grind, working on
the game, being at the game. Single mindedness is what
you're talking about. Were they only that?

Speaker 6 (13:21):
Was?

Speaker 4 (13:21):
That's where I was going with Jordan Speed. They got
a family, Yeah, wife and a family, isn't that the
right thing? I mean really sure, faith, family, education, then golf.
But the fact is, you know, I mean, you know
they they you know, they all have soar backs. Yeah,
they fell off their wallets.

Speaker 5 (13:39):
Yeah, you know what I say.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
I mean they win so much money. Oh yeah, I
mean speed is never gonna have to worry about dollars. No,
I mean, justin Thomas, not gonna have to worry about money.
But when we talk about a lot of these players,
if they weren't winning golf tournaments, which was enough to
get them by, they they had to get a job.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
There was another thing. They had a long conversation with
a Palmer, a number of versage about one at his
office and what about that? Because I asked him about
this question. Hell, you do this, you know, steady. I
believe everything has energy. Yeah, And what I had the
ability to do is I would take a look at
that acorn. I'd take a look at that bird. I
knew there was energy, and I would suck all the energy.

(14:18):
I cut all of them, and I put it and
I would hold him inside me. I had the ability
to take all this energy and put it inside of me.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
That was what he was telling me about Palmer was
one of the first guys that went on and got endorsements.
I mean it wasn't the first, but he connected to
companies and the business of that, of that part of
endorsement money on the tour. I think he was among
the first to really take advantage.

Speaker 4 (14:44):
Sky's the limit. He does not do anything, fly his
own airplane. I mean you think about all of this,
right though. Yeah, and you know, I mean they don't
have any parameters. And if you can play like that. Now,
we've got some young players that play here the same way. Yeah,
I mean, yeah, they just you know, they're not a
They won't tell you how good they are, but they'll
stand there and listen to you for a little while.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Last one on this this is a little bit of
an offshoot. But when you identify one of these great
young players, but you see, like you talk about flaws
and swings like Jordan Speedthad, do you want to correct
that fourteen to fifteen year old who is just so
but he does he's got a bad elbow, or he
puts his something in the wrong position. At what point
do you leave them alone? Or at other points you say, no,

(15:28):
we let's fix this now.

Speaker 4 (15:29):
So you want to we don't compromise. Yeah, what's the
right thing to do? Not who's right? Yeah, you know
our circle is round, sir, and a line is straight.
We can't have an argument about that. So you know,
I mean we judge the ball by shape and trajectory,
and when that happens, you go to your hands and

(15:49):
the path is the other issue. The third thing, well,
that's the relationship of your shoulders to the light and
impact governed by your footwork. Guys, what is all that?
So you teach them the footwork. You know, there's five
radial torque pieces on your core. See these young guys
know about that. Here's what we try to get them
to do. I can't be with you when you're playing

(16:10):
in a tournament. You better be able to fix yourself.
So you become your own best teacher. You know they
said that about Steve. You went over here and he
did this. Well, all he did was go over. You
don't know anything else but the right thing. Just keep
doing the right thing over and this is what it does.
And you know, it produces an action and you have

(16:32):
to get physically right and then along you know what
comes first? Confidence or good shots?

Speaker 5 (16:41):
Good shots helps the confidence.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
Well, fundamentals comes first, cause the fundamentals will give you
the good shots, and then you get the confidence. So
you see, we're going right back to the physics will
give you the feel. The field won't give you the physics.
So this instruction thing and that's when you see all
you Well, you go go down the top fifteen kids
and the junior boys. Where do they come?

Speaker 5 (17:03):
Ten of them are right here, Yeah, a bunch of
them right here.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
Oh yeah, they're right here. Well there's one out here today.
Dad wants to join the club. Why is that? Well,
you know, I live up here in the forest, and
I want my son to be in the same place
as Builder Box or Hotman. Yeah, well you see what
I'm saying. They want to be in here, and the
kid pushes to get that. Isn't that great that I
say that we have the place for that. And then

(17:27):
when winter time comes it even gets better. Then you
go inside and then you go track men and all this,
so they know exactly what it's right. I mean, I
just got a text back from hot me. We just
one again up in Lake Arrowhead. I shot even and
then I shot two. Wonder he says, But you know,
when we put it. I made putts today. He said,
you know, you know, you know there's things that you

(17:51):
can't have an opinion on. Yeah, and there's facts in
putting that you can't have an opinion on.

Speaker 7 (17:57):
And so.

Speaker 4 (17:59):
There, and you know, now he's going to be recruited
by here Wisconsin. There you go. And that's really what
we're looking. Especially on the women's side. We got a
number of those. We got girls here. I mean this
one girl, she's a sophomore now, she shot three under.
Gonna want to be a senior here at Wisconsin. She
shot seven under. Made a hole in a while. I

(18:20):
mean here, I don't care if you're playing from one
hundred yards out to shoot seven under. But you see,
you look at them and they look at you different,
a whole different confidence level, a whole different way to
compete mentally with men. You know what I'm saying. It's
totally different. All these and some of the women we

(18:40):
have here now it's amazing.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Well, I got some pretty good role models that are
out here as well, from Mickey and Bobby and Izzy
that the Stricker clan is pretty good.

Speaker 4 (18:51):
I talk enough tonight.

Speaker 5 (18:52):
You're good. You're good. Gary Demoto is going to talk.
In a couple of minutes.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
We'll we'll welcome in Gary Demato from Wisconsin dot Golf.
He'll join us on the other side. Talking golf continues
at TPC Wisconsin. Your golf game need to pick me up.
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Speaker 5 (22:03):
Is that right, Joel, Your.

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I'm back with you at TVC Wisconsin on my color
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My right.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
Baul Brown is off tonight. He'll be back with us
next Monday night. Is the hope and the plan. Gary Tomorrow,
Wisconsin Dot Golf joins us on the line, and Gary,
I want to begin with Chiechie Rodriguez because Bobby, okay,
all right, I want to begin with with the Chichi Rodriguez.
We lost him in recent days, and you've got a

(22:41):
couple of pretty good stories and connections to Chichi.

Speaker 15 (22:46):
Yeah. Back in nineteen seventy eight, when I was in
my first couple of months as a young reporter in Freeport, Illinois,
Chichi Rodriguez and Andy North came to Rockford to do
a golf exhibition. And this was like a week after
Andy won the US Open. And you know, give him
credit for showing up, you know, at a clinic in Rockford,

(23:10):
Illinois about places. But I watched CHEECHI hit shots and
he was very entertaining. You know, this is back in
the day when guys could really work the ball with
the equipment they had, and he was hitting these you know,
low stingers and then high shots, and you know, he
used a five iron, and he hit every shot in
the book, you know, low, high fade, a cut, a draw.

(23:32):
And then he put down two balls and he made swings,
two swings in quick succession, and hit a high fade
and a low hooked, and he was trying to get
the balls to hit in midair. Of course, that's probably
one in the one in a million shots, but they
actually came pretty close. I mean they were probably within
ten or fifteen feet of each other. But it was
so much fun. He was such a great showman and

(23:52):
a great entertainer and a really good player. People forget
he had a pretty good record. He won eight times
on the PGA Tour and twenty two times on the
Senior Tour. Fun to watch him play golf, that's for sure, Dennis.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
You you had some chee Chi Rodriguez stories as well.

Speaker 4 (24:09):
Or he was out there, you know when I played.
And there was one interesting thing that his right heel
was always off the ground, off the ground at address
and he was one of the first guys that I
saw consistently hit at three hundred yards with a wood club.

Speaker 5 (24:30):
Really, no, he's only four foot big.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
He's four foot you know, nothing to him, but he
was he was he was good, but he was a
good person. That's what I liked most about it. You know.
You can always tell when I look at some of
the other big shots and when they see him, they
get their arm around. They were shaking hands or smiling.
They enjoyed being with him. But he another family guy Cuba.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
Yeah, you know, lost buckle and finish after a made
putt was pretty entertaining to.

Speaker 4 (24:58):
Give you that he'd give you that is, put the
sword and and stuff like that. But that foot in
the air was always something, you know when you think
about him. And it wasn't too long after that. Who's
the Who's the English guy?

Speaker 16 (25:10):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (25:11):
You know sem on TV? Now he won the couple
of masters. Anyway, neck Faldo, Nick Falder does that same thing, sir. Uh,
they he does a little bit of the He does
a little bit of the same thing. Now his right
heel is up off the ground. Funny thing.

Speaker 15 (25:33):
Why would they do that?

Speaker 17 (25:34):
Then?

Speaker 4 (25:35):
Well, they made sure that they didn't sway to the right.
Because if you if you're, if you're, if you're gravitational
center your belly button, if it moves laterally on the
way back, it has to move laterally on the way forward,
You're screwed. It's got to stay in that spot, so
it becomes the center of a circle. Did you ever

(25:55):
try making a circle and you move the you can't
move the center work. It wasn't gonna work. So that
made sure that that didn't happen. And they both and
if you'll take a look and you watch them, you'll
see that they didn't have any problem. It looks like
they start back with their hips to the right. So
we knew that that if you have a big hip,

(26:17):
have another hip turn going forward, and if you aren't
going back and forth, and you make that, then your
pecks and abs stay locked down your shoulders. So they
had the I don't know if they knew what I'm
talking about, but they certainly worked for them.

Speaker 7 (26:31):
Gary.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
In our opening segment tonight, we talked about goats in
the world of golf, and I listed off the top
eleven tournament winners on the PGA Tour of all time.
Sam Sneed won the most eighty two, not the most majors.
He won seven majors. Then Tiger also as the eighty
two and fifteen majors. Jack was seventy three and eighteen.
Then Hogan, Palmer, Byron Nelson, Billy Casper, Walter Hagen, Michelson, Kerry, Middelkoff,

(26:56):
and Watson. Those are the top eleven all time. If
I'm asking Gary Demato, who's the greatest of all time?

Speaker 5 (27:02):
Who is it? And what's the important criteria for you?

Speaker 15 (27:07):
That's this a lot, And here's my answer. Jack Nicholas
was the greatest champion of all time and Tiger Woods
was the greatest player of all time. I split those
two into champion and player. I don't think anyone's ever
played the game like Tiger, and I don't think you
know anyone's and certainly no one's ever been greater in
major championships than Jack. You know, besides the eighteen e one,

(27:29):
he finished second nineteen times. And I remember my boss,
who was a big Tiger Woods fan, when I planned
that stat out to him, Gary Howard, the former sports
editor of the Journal Sentinel. He said, well, see that
just shows Jack couldn't close the deal and I'm like,
are you kidding me? He was first or second thirty
seven times in major championships. I think he could close
the deal. But but you know, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (27:52):
I had a theory that he would never ever go
ahead and do something that was sixth straight, that was
gambling in the last nine home. He waited for the
other guy to lose the tournament and then he took over.

Speaker 5 (28:05):
Yeah like that idea, Well, yeah.

Speaker 4 (28:07):
You know, I mean it didn't change. That's what he did.
You know, he was not that great of a shark,
a wedge player, yeah, but from the tee and long irons, yeah,
and putting, yeah, are you kidding me?

Speaker 5 (28:19):
It's great, It's amazing. We've talked about that.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
I want to get Dennis's thought on this, but we've
talked about this many times. You watch old you watch
the old film highlights of that age of golfer, and
on the putting green, they do it in a way
that you wouldn't teach today, Dennis, because they really use
their use their hands and wrists because the greens were slow.

Speaker 4 (28:41):
Right. But I've never seen I've never seen so fundamentally
poor putting strokes as I'm watching on TV today, except
for the women watch some of those strokes. Yeah, they're
very good. You know you can tell that they they're
rolling the ball, not hitting the ball. I can't believe
how many. Yeah, the fundamentals that are poor. You know,

(29:03):
when you get a big when you get a big handle,
you're telling me you're taking your hands out or play, Well,
what the hell is your feel?

Speaker 5 (29:11):
Right?

Speaker 4 (29:12):
Feel is in your You're going to take your feel out?
So what are you gonna do? Well, you're gonna arm
and shoulder? What is that? Yeah, but when you're going
back to this flippy wristed type deal. They did that,
but the putter always led to the left and then
they followed. And you're right, it was different kind of
if they had to do that now they'd all be
chipping them.

Speaker 16 (29:35):
It is.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
We get into this time of year, Gary, and I
know that the girls golf season for schools will begin
here shortly. Uh, but the summer golf tournament season is
close to an end. So what's the what's the busyness
right now with Wisconsin dot Golf?

Speaker 5 (29:55):
What are you and Rob working on?

Speaker 15 (29:56):
Yeah, well Rob's at the US Amateur right now in
the minnesot To Following Garrett Jones who unfortunately had a
tough first round today, said eighty one, and he's tied
for two hundred and ninety first so he's got a
lot of ground the makeup. It's gonna be tough for
him to make the cut. But then next week, you know,
the State Open, the premier tournament in our state after

(30:18):
the MFAM Championship, and you know, there's gonna be a
great feel for that. And it's had a great club,
Monoco Country Club. Never been there and I can't wait
to see it.

Speaker 5 (30:29):
Yeah, that's that's fantastic.

Speaker 15 (30:31):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
You know, we always appreciate you jumping in here, hope
all as well, and we'll look forward to visiting again
next week.

Speaker 15 (30:37):
All right, guys, thanks, thanks so.

Speaker 5 (30:39):
Much, Thank you, Garrett.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
So, I want to go back to the risk thing
because you wouldn't. You don't teach that hand movement anymore.
But were the club faces doing what you fundamentally want
them to do, then no.

Speaker 4 (30:55):
The club face doesn't work. You got to work the
club the blade. You know, here we go back to
this again. You believe about you can't have an opinion
on the fact. Okay, do you believe that the longer
the blades stay square? To the ball and the way
to the ball, the more accurate you're going to be. Yes,
it has to stay square on the other side too,
so I have to stay square. So you can't do
you believe that shoulders make the plane? Yeah, oh you do, well,

(31:19):
I believe what you but they do make the plane correct. Well,
the plane in putting is your line. So shouldn't your
shoulders work, you know, on the line, not around to
the left or wrong the right. When you go to
the end of your putter stroke and you take a
look at your putters open to the line?

Speaker 7 (31:36):
Yeah, what is that?

Speaker 4 (31:37):
That means you've got to put it square to the line.
How did it get open to begin with? Did you
do with your hands? Did you do with your shoulders?
How did you do that? So you know? And the
other is you never hit the ball. You put it
on square and then you roll the ball, which means
the putter has to go first. The putter head goes first,
not your arms, not your hands. The putter head goes first.

(32:00):
So now we go back to this flippy thing. Right,
that's what they were doing. We can do that. You
just don't you do it. Don't change that right wrist.
It's got to stay the same. No wrist break to
the right. The blade will stay square to the line
depending on how close you are. The further you're away,
the toe goes first. The closer you are, the heel

(32:21):
goes first. We want to get it so they both
go the same, and that's judged by the distance you
are from the ball. People say, oh, your eyes are
over it. That's an old but that's why you're doing it,
so that the blade stays square all the time. And
if you look at it, oh boy, my heel went
back first. Oh, then your heel must go back to

(32:43):
the left. That's how it stays square. For some people listening.
Just put your putter on the baseboard of your house,
take your grip, go to the right. How's your putter? Oh,
it better be square, but then then go forward. It
better stay square. Now and watch how this works. Oh,

(33:04):
so it's not rotation right and left, it's rotation left
and right. Yeah, that's how it works. So that's a
little bit of the putting thing.

Speaker 12 (33:14):
You know.

Speaker 4 (33:14):
There's a lot to it. And don't call me because
I'm not going to give you a lesson.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
Okay, especially those left handers might be We're going to
talk with Travis, the director of Instruction. That happens on
the other side, so stick around for that as we continue.

Speaker 5 (33:31):
It's Talking Golf at TPC Wisconsin.

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Crapes.

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Speaker 3 (36:46):
Back with you on Talking Golf, Blake Keller and the
CEO of Instruction at TPC with content.

Speaker 5 (36:51):
Is that the proper title?

Speaker 7 (36:52):
And I just give you a I like it. I
like it. That sounded really good.

Speaker 5 (36:56):
Travis Becker is here.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
We're going to talk about instruction, But here's the cool thing.
At TPC Wisconsin, you have built a short game area
which is adjacent to the golf shop area across the
road from the full driving range practice team. So the
short game area just opened up. So I'm curious as

(37:18):
to how players that go over and use that. How
can they best benefit from using an area like this
that is designed specifically for the short game.

Speaker 16 (37:29):
Sure if, just like any other area of your game,
you like to have a game plan. So if you're
going to work on your wedge play, first thing I
would start with is my technique making sure I have
the correct setup ball position, I'm making good contact with
the golf ball. Am I trying to hit a more
of a chipping technique or a pitching technique. So that

(37:51):
would be the starting point, just making good contact second
part of it. Once I have that, I go into
a plan of learning to use different clubs roll ratios
where I can get the ball on the green quickly
and have it roll to my final destination. So just
going through and using maybe your wedges, maybe a pitching
wedge of nine iron, even an eight iron, get the
ball on the green and pay attention to how far

(38:13):
is the carry to roll distances? After that, maybe working
on trajectory control and this now we're looking at the
bounce of the wedges. So if I have a condition
that's a little softer, maybe a little fluffy of grass,
and I want to apply more bounce to the wedge,
I typically would move the ball position a little forward,
pull the handle of the wedge back towards my belly

(38:34):
a little bit more, which is going to create a
little higher loft and a little more bounce on the
bottom of the wedge. Or I could get on some
tight lies, or I want to take some of the
bounce away and position the ball a little further back
in my stance and lean the handle a little bit
more forward. So that would be another phase of your
game to work on. And then bad lies that are
new short game complex. You can hit any type of

(38:56):
short game shot that you're interested in, but you don't
always have the fairway line when you're on the golf course,
So burying the ball in some of the rough and
learning to hit low running shots and high soft shots.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
Yeah, it was one of the things I was going
to go to next. Is that the cool really one
of the cool things about a short game area as
opposed to a practice tea where you're hitting off of
you know, really good grass or mats or whatever that
is is you can vary you're you know, you can
sit on a little bit of an uphill, a side hill,
a thick grass. The short mode area adjacent to the green.

(39:31):
You have the green complexes here at TPCU Wisconsin in
some other places.

Speaker 5 (39:35):
Allow for putting off the green a lot. You can
do that.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
So there's a lot of variances to what you can
practice at the short game area.

Speaker 16 (39:41):
There is you can use pretty much every club in
your bag, but just going through the situation and trusting
it so when you are on the golf course you
can you can pull that off.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
Yeah, the bunker. There's also bunker play over there, And
I'm curious. I know it's not just a short game
they are a fairway bunkers too. But what's the biggest
most common mistake that players will make when they're in
a green side bunker? Like, just from an audio standpoint,
what you can do to at least give somebody a

(40:11):
leg up on the things that they tend to do
most often wrong in a bunker.

Speaker 7 (40:16):
The first thing is they walk into the bunker. Fearful. Sure, Yeah, they're.

Speaker 16 (40:21):
Telling themselves, do not chunk it, do not fitness and
they're looking on the other side of the green. So
number one, have a plan? Yeah, or do I want
that ball to land? But from on the radio, how
can I best describe a bunker?

Speaker 4 (40:34):
You know?

Speaker 16 (40:34):
Set up wise, you're gonna maybe get your feet a
little wider. You're gonna dig your feet in the sand
and get comfortable there. Ball will be slightly forward a middle.
The most important thing is hitting that impact spot right
behind the ball. So you're looking about an inch to
two inches behind the ball, and that's really you're trying
to hit that spot and accelerate the sand out of
the bunker.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
Because people are you talk about being fearful, that that
fearfulness projects itself when you see somebody take the swing
and they slow down and right after the ball they
stop right and you have to finish that swing and
trust that you're not going to hit a house, correct, right,
I mean you you have to trust that you're going
to hit the sand.

Speaker 7 (41:14):
Yes, you have to. You have to have confidence.

Speaker 16 (41:16):
Yeah, focus on that spot behind the ball, accelerate through it,
finish high. Just try to feel like you're hitting the
sand out of the bunker.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
I want to take you back to that carried to
roll ratio. The first time i'd read about that scene
that learned about that was from Harvey Poenix's little book
talking about hitting it under a bench and to use
a seven iron not always using wedges.

Speaker 5 (41:40):
You can you.

Speaker 3 (41:40):
See really good players that gain an understanding of getting
the ball on the ground and rolling out sooner can
many times be an advantage. But some of that depends
on your lie. Is it a short cut pin a
far cut pin? So how do you end up, other
than doing a playing lesson, how do you end up
teaching somebody to say, hey, this is one of those

(42:01):
times where you might want to hit an eight iron
and get it rolling sooner and let it roll out.

Speaker 5 (42:07):
That carried a roll ratio.

Speaker 16 (42:09):
Yes, I would say ninety nine percent of the time
the ball rolls in the hole. So if we can
get that ball rolling quicker instead of trying to fly
it with our lob wedge and landed in the hole,
you're gonna have better chances. Secondly, when you're using a
little less loft, you don't have to make as big
of a swing right. That means less things can go wrong.
So you play your percentages. Typically your sand wedge, however

(42:30):
far that flies. In your chipping technique, that's how far
it's going to roll. It's called the one to one ratio. Yeah,
your pitching wedge is typically a one to two. It's
going to roll twice as far as it flies. Your
nine irons are one to three, you're eight iron a
one to four, etc.

Speaker 5 (42:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
So I was watching one of the teachers on staff
here TPC, Wisconsin working with somebody on Saturday because the
short game area just opened and a lot of golfers
struggle with tight lies. We want the ball in a fairway,
we want the ball in the short grass. But you
put a wedge in somebody's hand and you have a
twenty yard shot or a fifteen yard shot to the

(43:05):
whole tit. Lies can be intimidating as intimidating as a bunker.

Speaker 7 (43:10):
They can.

Speaker 16 (43:10):
You have to you know that contact point has to
be precise. Again, might not be a bad option to
putt it if you can. You know, the rule of
thumb is if you can putt it, put it. If
you can't putt it, you chip it. Can't chip you
a pitch it. But even that's where maybe using a
hybred is another alternative there. We also you could move
in a little closer to the ball and stand the
handle up a little more vertical. The toe of the

(43:33):
club will do more of a sweeping action. So if
you have a shorter shot on a tighter lie, that's
another thing to try and practice.

Speaker 5 (43:40):
Okay, so I want to go one more here.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
I want to go back to the idea of putting
from closely moan off the green, because you just said,
putt it when you can. But we don't see a
lot of tour players do that. We saw that in
the US Senior Open a year ago up at Stevens Point,
where the winner did that all weekend long. But how
do you decide what's the best advice you can give

(44:04):
a golfer to determine whether they should chip or putt
off the green.

Speaker 16 (44:08):
I think a lot of it has to do with
that particular player when they walk up there. What are
they confident in doing If they feel like this, I
could yip this.

Speaker 7 (44:17):
One, or I'm gonna chunk it or thin it. Go
to the putter.

Speaker 16 (44:20):
If you feel very confident and you're a great wedge player,
then I would say use your wedge and chip it.

Speaker 7 (44:25):
So again it's player dependent.

Speaker 5 (44:26):
Is there some age element in there too?

Speaker 3 (44:29):
I've noticed my hands aren't as confident around the green
with short chip shots as I've gotten older, as opposed
to putting.

Speaker 5 (44:37):
Is there an age element there is?

Speaker 7 (44:39):
You know, I definitely see it with my students.

Speaker 16 (44:41):
You know, some of the older gentlemen may start to
have a little bit of the yips in there, and
if that's the case, you use the Texas wedge, yeah.

Speaker 7 (44:48):
You know, and put it.

Speaker 16 (44:48):
But that's a mental thing that you got to overcome
and work on that tempo and rhythm.

Speaker 5 (44:54):
Very good, Travis, We appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Next week we're going to talk about the success of
the and your program that's going on here because you've
got a tournament that you will have been at today
in Green Bay when by the time this error is
that will be taken care of. So Travis, thank you.
We will come back and talk with Bobby Strucker. I
believe when we come back talking golf at TPC Wistuns, your.

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Speaker 3 (48:26):
Funny to watch the the interactions between Bobby and Grandpa
here on the set. Bobby Stricker now joins us on
talking golf on this Monday night. We've only got less
than a half a dozen shows left this season, kind
of moves away, Bobby. Let's let me talk about who
you root for first before we talk about you, because

(48:47):
little sister had a pretty good week last week, and
I know that you all root for one another, and.

Speaker 5 (48:52):
That must have been fun.

Speaker 17 (48:54):
Yes, yeah, I got to watch her play pretty much
her full round the first day they played black Hawk,
and then didn't go watch her at Nacoma.

Speaker 22 (49:02):
She hung in there.

Speaker 17 (49:03):
It was a hard day, I think it was like
really windy, kind of a.

Speaker 5 (49:05):
Fall fall weather day.

Speaker 17 (49:08):
And then got to see her play like eleven holes
at black Hawk again on the last day. She played
so nice. Yeah, yeah, she.

Speaker 5 (49:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 17 (49:17):
I'm always so impressed by her. She she hangs in there,
gets out of those like slumps in a round so well.
And then just like when and especially black Hawk, like
coming down the stretch, those are kind of some awkward holes,
like you have short, short par fours that are kind
of awkward off the tea, she ended up making a

(49:38):
really nice par save. I always forget what hold that
one fourteen? And then next hole played the whole.

Speaker 22 (49:46):
Perfect fifteen No No fourteen sheep made a really long
par anyway, just played them really nice and like you
have people around, I mean we had a bunch of
our family was there.

Speaker 17 (50:00):
Just the way that she handles that too, Like that
nerves I know how it feels, Grandpa, And it's just
it's cool when when.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
You're playing and Grandpa's around or obviously your dad's with you,
has been with you at times when you're playing. Is
having family there relaxing, reaffirming? Does it sometimes make you
more nervous?

Speaker 22 (50:21):
How does that play really depends? I'd say it changes.

Speaker 17 (50:25):
Yeah, yeah, ess Actually, I mean like Grandpa doesn't get
out to watch like us play competitive rounds a lot
because just because we're not, like it's weird. I'm never
home to play in competitive rounds. By play in the
State Open, he's there, so it's like one of those
things that like, Okay, he showed up and he's here
for like the one time that he gets to watch

(50:45):
me play this year. So it adds a little bit
of nerves. Yeah, it's different with my parents, Like no,
I don't get nervous and playing in front of my
mom and dad, but I would say it depends. I
know she did talk about having grandpa there that it's
just like you want to show grandpa what we're doing
play well, So we love having him around.

Speaker 4 (51:05):
You know when she made that put you know it
wasn't a cart, but my grandma. Yeah, so we drove by,
and we drove by Nikki Steve, I drove right by
and I said, what a putter. It's like your mother.
It was really cool.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
Yeah, you got a little putting lesson today, about two
minute lesson. Give me a sense of what that's like
because most of us think, okay, we're going to get.

Speaker 5 (51:32):
A lesson, and you do.

Speaker 3 (51:33):
You have your book a lesson with somebody who's going
to be forty five minutes or an hour or whatever
that is. But grandpa here gave you about a two
minutes on the putting green today.

Speaker 5 (51:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 17 (51:42):
My my golf lessons do not they they're not like that.
If they're with my dad or with my grandpa. It's
just like I need help, can I can come to
the range right now? And one of them is like, yes,
I can, or today. And this has happened a lot,
especially with putting. Grandpa hangs out here obviously at the
club and you can see the putting green and he
just comes out and yes he did. It was literally

(52:02):
probably five minutes.

Speaker 4 (52:03):
Well it wasn't bad to begin with. I mean, she
does make putts, but there is a way you know
that you can't argue with which we sid there's some
things that you can't have an opinion in the fact,
circle straight around in a line of street. I mean,
that's the way it works. But no, she makes a lot,
but I know that if she put it better, she'd

(52:24):
score better. Yeah, because she plays from tee to green
really good, but like anything, just starting out, never played
golf competitively until the last few years. But now, which
is a good thing because I tell her, you know,
I look at some of these foreign girls. They're done
playing at twenty two to twenty three. They're burnt out.
They had enough. Their parents been banging on them since

(52:46):
they've been fifteen years old. Well, she's just getting going.
She's twenty five and just getting going, you know. So
we got a positive thing working there.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Yeah, and you're you're running up now on the calendar,
getting pretty close to going out west and your opportunity
at Q school, And I know that that's uh, Everything
that you've kind of worked at this summer was designed
to move you to where you're going to be right now.
So that's you're feeling good about where you are.

Speaker 17 (53:11):
I would think, Yeah, I leave in Sunday, so less
than a week now. Yes, I I played today, played
really nice. I just I am trusting that I'm peeking
at the time. I shot seven under folk.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
Yeah, I hear that, I hear that's he that's pretty good.

Speaker 5 (53:32):
Yeah. Yeah, well I played by myself.

Speaker 17 (53:35):
I texted one of my friends and he was like,
you played by yoursel or. I said, I played by
myself and he was like, that doesn't count. Nobody was,
but no, I'm super pumped to go out there. I'll
go out there with my dad on Sunday and yeah,
play next Thursday.

Speaker 5 (53:52):
Yeah, very good.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
And and uh, you've integrated the new equipment that we've
talked about over the last few weeks and that feels
good too.

Speaker 17 (54:00):
Yeah. So while to get used, Yeah, yeah, I got
to play. I explained that. I think last week I
got to play with the new Woods in a golf
tournament last week, and yeah, I definitely saw some things.
We ended up realizing that the shafts in my driver
and my utility were the same, and then my three
wood in my five wood were different than my driver

(54:20):
and my utility. The driver and the utility were stiff,
and then the other ones were had a little bit
more flex. They were like stiff flex, I think is
what they're called. And when I would hit my three
wood in my five wood, it would it would react
in a way that it was showing more flex uh
and just harder to control. And it was weird because
I would hit my driver and then hit my three wood.

Speaker 5 (54:42):
You know, it's just yeah, you don't want them to.

Speaker 17 (54:43):
Beat My dad was My dad was confused by that. Anyway,
got new stiff shafts. Got to play them today and
I'm loving them now. They're all the same, and hopefully
they'll they'll work next week.

Speaker 5 (54:56):
We've got about thirty five forty seconds left.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
But let me just ask you, what's what's in front
of is he? And how excited are you for what
she's going to begin?

Speaker 5 (55:05):
Going to the u w R question?

Speaker 17 (55:07):
I mean, yeah, she is so pumped. I'm so well,
first all, my little sister. I'm so proud of her
and what she's accomplished, how she handles herself, the way
that she prepares. And yeah, she starts in literally like
two weeks, which is nuts. I'm so excited for her
because I know what she's going going to start and

(55:28):
go through.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
And you've lived that, I mean and in recent so
and to see her start on that travel, it's pretty cool.

Speaker 5 (55:34):
He rocks.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
Yeah, you fantastic, Well you rock, Go get them next week.
All right, We're all rooting for you, praying for you,
cheering for you.

Speaker 5 (55:42):
Thank you. All right.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
Bobby Stricker joining us. Decided to skip out on dinner.
Her food's getting cold.

Speaker 5 (55:48):
Go back over there.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
We'll come back and wrap things up in a moment.
This is talking Golf at TPC Wisconsin.

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Speaker 6 (57:55):
Hi, I'm showing Clary. When you construct a clarybuilding, you
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proud of. One thing to be aware of is when
it's golf season, our team has a tendency to switch
to golf lingo on the job sete.

Speaker 5 (58:10):
Him.

Speaker 6 (58:11):
You better take a mulligan on that rest assured you
are still getting the best quality.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
The best Hey.

Speaker 6 (58:17):
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If you're a golfer who likes a challenge, consider being
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(58:46):
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Speaker 5 (59:02):
So we'll give you our final thoughts here before we
wrap it up. Hey, I hope Paul.

Speaker 3 (59:06):
Feels better and rejoins us on set next week. That's
what you said, right, You wanted Paul back here next week.

Speaker 4 (59:12):
Pretty good? This week we might give him a break,
might give him a break.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Well, isn't that what you told him when you gave
him a lesson? Take two weeks off and then.

Speaker 4 (59:18):
Quick man, he's getting better though, Oh he is good. Yeah,
he's getting better.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
No, m he's listening. You know, he probably heard that.
We'll be back here and do this all again next week.
Just a handful of shows remaining in this golf season.
A big thank you to Gary, Tomato and Bobby for
joining us over here in Travis as well. We'll talk
to you next week next Monday Night, talking golf at
TPC Wisconsin,