Talking Golf 8-5-24

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Talking Golf at TPC Wisconsin is on the air. Far
Talking Golf is brought to you by American Family Insurance,
TPC Wisconsin, Oak Park Place, Wild Rock Golf Club Simbric,
Mercedes Benz of Madison, also University Ridge Golf Course, Ridge

(00:23):
Top Exteriors, Cleary Building Corp. And Nevada Bobbs. Now from
the new home of TPC Wisconsin in Madison, here are
the hosts of Talking Golf. Member of the Wisconsin Golf
Hall of Fame, the legendary Dennis Tizziani, longtime Madison sportscaster
Paul Brown, and Wisconsin sports veteran and state wide radio

(00:45):
host Mike Hellerer.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
And we welcome you to TPC Wisconsin in Madison. Mike
Keller on the desk here, I'm joined by Dennis Dizzioni
and Paul Brown as we welcome you in to another Monday.
The Olympics wrapped up with a golf finish yesterday. Wow,
isn't that something I don't know where everybody sits on
tennis and golf being in the Olympics and things of

(01:11):
that nature. But Scotty Scheffler and watching the emotion of
him on the metal stand representing his country and with
a gold medal was something to never forget.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
That was outstanding in something that you're going to see
for a long long time.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Oh yeah, I mean it was so good that the
video of him video there and.

Speaker 4 (01:31):
Oh yeah, but you know, foreigner live. I can't believe
it's so good.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
You know, he's not a foreigner, he's.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
You know, you're talking about the guy that fell off
the cart heard himself now.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Oh yeah. I try not to pay attention to what's
going on there. Oh yeah, yeah, And there was a
little bit more on that. You know, we would look
at that tournament. John Rahm had a chance, so you
were talking about had a chance, and his fortunes have
gone down dramatically since he the PGA Tour, enjoyed, the
Live Tour, not played nearly as well. He had a

(02:04):
chance yesterday in the Olympics to win gold. It did
not happen. But that's part of part of the conversation.
We get to this time of year. It wasn't for
Olympic golf, we wouldn't have paid much attention to golf
this weekend because just it falls off a little bit. Certainly,
we've talked about the calendar.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
Mike and Rory McElroy really enjoyed it too. The comments
that he made, for an example, talking about this is
one of the greatest things in golf and where he
had a lot of fun playing in that event.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, and I think that is I think the tennis
players that got to do the Olympics this weekend and
the golfers that did it, it's a renewed obviously. I think,
and have said this many times in sports. I think
the greatest honor you're going to have in sport is
to represent your country.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Obviously you've heard that many times from Mark John and
in so many other hockey players that have been able
to put on the American colors in the Olympic Games
and to see how that has played.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
Maybe these two tours will come together finally.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
But you negotiate something. Keep Dennis out of the negotiation.

Speaker 4 (03:17):
Rind of that guy who's pushing it now. He says
that if they don't start playing better on the live tour,
he's going to cut out paying the money.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
There we go, what is that? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (03:29):
I had heard that.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Let's go on to uh something a little bit more
genteel and we bring in Kathy Heart Thinking Above par
Is the podcast, and Kathy has become a close friend
with your daughter Nikki Tizziani and and was here for
a while a week or so back. I got a

(03:50):
chance to be introduced in Kathy, thanks for spending a
little time with us.

Speaker 5 (03:55):
Oh, well, thank you so much for having me. I'm
excited to talk.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
With you all. I'll share a little In said. I'm
out for a walk one of the days that Kathy
was in town, and it was Monday, a week and
a half ago and or whatever that was two weeks ago,
and Nicky and Kathy are in front of me, but
I don't know who Kathy is. So we got in
here and I saw Bobby later in the day. I said, Bobby,

(04:18):
who is your mom walking with this morning? And she
told me it was Kathy Harton And I said, well
she what does she do well? Motivational stuff? I said,
I thought so because they were giving each other high
fives while they're walking a few times, so I'm sure
there was motivation. But part of what you do in
the motivational world and in golf psychology is to talk

(04:40):
about the game and your podcast, which has entertained me.
Now for the last week and a half or so
because I've become a listener and got a lot to
catch up on. One of them that you talk about
is telling yourself believable positive things when you're on the
golf course. So a lot of us talk to ourselves
negatively on the golf course, and then if we are

(05:02):
going to talk positive, maybe it's an unrealistic So give
me your sense of what you like or how you
kind of work with golfers to tell themselves good things,
but believable good things, the seven out of ten level
good things.

Speaker 5 (05:19):
Yeah, So a lot of times, you know, I positive affirmation.
People will go out there and say words that sound great.
They sound like I want to be a great putter,
or I can birdy the last four holes you know
coming in. But your brain, if it's not believable, will
call bs basically I'm that thought, and it'll spit it
out so it becomes useless. I have personal experience from this.

(05:41):
I played golfer a living and I used to tell
myself because putting was one of the parts that I
struggled with. I used to tell myself probably four million
times that I'm a great putter. But the problem was
is that I didn't believe it. I called BS that
in my brain called BS on the thought, so it
didn't have any traction. It sounded wonderful and I would
love to have had that, but because it wasn't believable

(06:02):
on a scale of one to ten. You know, if
I said how believable was that at that time? Had
I known to do that right at that time? If
I said how believable was I were given like a one.
I was just totally not believable to me. I just
wanted to have that thought, and I was thinking that
positive affirmations were going to be a really good thing
for me. And the biggest thing that I help people

(06:23):
with now is finding thoughts that are useful and believable
to you, because if they're useful and believable to you,
then they're going to gain traction. Then you're going to
start looking for evidence that it's true. And I use
on a scale of one to ten, if you can
get it to a seven. So often we'll say things
that you know, I believe that I can finish well
when maybe we haven't seen evidence that we've done it

(06:44):
in the last few tournaments. And you say that, and
I asked the question how believable is that If you
get it to a five or six, then it's really
not going to gain a lot of traasal. We want
to have that connection between a thought that resonates with
us from a feeling standpoint, So I work with players
who come up with different phrases that can become more believable.

(07:06):
So we might have to say I'm open to believing
that I can finish well, or I finished well in
the past, it's possible I can finish well again, and
just a small shift like that, then you can get it.
If you can get into a seven or above and
you repeat it like a dog on a bone, I mean,
you can't just say at once and let it go.
Then you're going to start to look for evidence of

(07:27):
that when you go out and play, because your brain
wants to look for things that you say. So if
you say, for instance, don't hit in the wall while
that's a megats really got us out because that's basically
what we're doing. That's about attension where we put our attentions.
But if you say I never I suck and I
never play well, or I always three potter, I always

(07:47):
have a blow up hole, your brain is going to
come down seventeen. If you haven't had a blow up hole,
it's going to tell you it's time to have a
blow up hoole.

Speaker 6 (07:58):
You're due.

Speaker 5 (07:59):
So be careful and cautious about the things that we say,
because our brain's going to want to look for evidence
that it's right.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
Kathy, Mike filled me in and this morning on the
fact that you were going to be on. So it
was my first exposure when I went to your website.
And I know that mentally, I have a lot of
problems coming down the pike when it comes to golf.
And one of the things I spotted was your mental
test right where you can take the questions and answer

(08:28):
the questions and it gives you a score.

Speaker 4 (08:31):
I scored a twenty eight. I scored at twenty eight.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
It sounds like I can use a lot of help,
but you can help me, right, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (08:40):
For sure, I think you're coachable.

Speaker 7 (08:43):
Yeah, I mean yeah, there's things that there's lots.

Speaker 5 (08:46):
Of evidence that we can all find as golfers that
it's part of it's mental. So you and most people
skip this because we're trained to just work harder, hit
more balls. You know, that's my mentality. I thought I
would just outpractice and for me to get better. If
I had a problem on the golf course, that maybe

(09:06):
it was indeed actually mental, I didn't know it. I
just thought that I had to go to the range
or take more lessons. And you know, the answer was
never at the bottom of the masket range balls for me.
So the way that people can decide if it's mental
or if it's physical is the simplest test that this
isn't the test that you're referring to. That was more
about just the emotions that I quit low quiz I have.

(09:27):
But the simplest test to know if you can do
some mental work is that if you can do it
on the range and you're in a relatively calm place,
most people are. Some people get a little freaked out
or to put pressure on themselves in the range, but
for the most part, people can do it on the range,
but they can't do it on the golf course. If
you can stripe it on the range, you're hitting it
really pure and you're hit these beautiful shots, and you

(09:47):
have to golf course and a different person shows up.
That is not your golf swing. That is your brain
getting in the way of your talent. So you own
the talent, but you just can't take it out to
the golf course. That's mental and the other way, and
it's worth working on because you know you have all
the skill and you just can't produce it. It's not
about getting local falls. It's about figuring out how to
manage your mind around the game of golf. And it's

(10:09):
really about managing your thoughts and your emotions so you
get yourself back into that place of playing relatively calm,
certain or confident, and that's available to people whether you're playing.

Speaker 7 (10:20):
Well or not.

Speaker 5 (10:20):
Most people don't think that they're waiting to hit good
golf shops before they could be calm or certain or confident,
and that's not sure.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
That's not the way it works, Kathy. I'm interested in
all of the stuff that you're talking about. I want
to go back to the first one about the positive
affirmation elements, because I know there's one thing that I'm
really good at out on the golf course, and that
is telling myself over and over again about how I

(10:46):
can't hit the fairway out here at the course that
we play. But I'll say that if ALTI in all
fourteen times, I'll say it to myself twelve times, I
don't ever hit this fairway. So that's one of the
things you were talking about, is the positive app a.
You got to be able to do it and then
be to tell yourself as many times as you would
say to yourself, I really stink at this, I'm not

(11:08):
good at this. So you were talking about repeating it
as often as you might repeat the bad things that
you say to yourself on the golf course.

Speaker 5 (11:18):
Yeah, it's just a game of repetition, but it's a
it's a game of repetition if you have that belief
attached to it. So you believe so strongly that you
can't hit a fairway, you stand over a shot, you're
a little tentative, or you're nervous, or you have a
lot of doubts, you hit a crappy shot off the tee,
you don't hit the fairway, and you go, see, I
can't hit a fairway. You know, anytime, anytime you say

(11:38):
to yourself when you're playing golf, see or here we
go again, you have a thought error that you want
to examine. And so that's that's something that awareness will well, well, well,
let me back up. It becomes this vicious loop that
is really hard or challenging for people to shift of.
But because you have this belief that you can't hit

(11:58):
the fairways, then you go out, you stand over the shot,
not in a place where you can make your best
wings or think clearly, you miss the fairway, and then
you give yourself more evidence to the thought that you have.
And so you've got to break that cycle and that loop.
And that might start with finding things that maybe you're
not maybe it's not true that you can't hit the fairways.

(12:19):
And one of the ways that I would challenge you
is if you went to the range. This is where
we can get we can get our expectations and check
about what we actually can do. Because so often in
the case that you're talking about right now, especially drive
people will go out with the expectation that they should
hit fourteen fairways if four of them are par threes, right.

(12:40):
So they get pissed off when they miss a couple
of fairways. But take them to the range and have
them hit ten drivers just so for easy masks. I
hit ten drivers in between two imaginary posts that are
the whisp of a fairway, and show me how many
you can hit if you can only hit five out
of ten with no danger or hazards that are freaking

(13:01):
your brain out, then your expectation should be to hit
fifty percent or seven fairways. And that's where we end
up getting super frustrated, getting in our own ways because
our expectations don't match reality.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
'tis how much of this is involved in coaching? You
knew I was going to bring in on this because
obviously you've lived as a coach for a very long time,
and all players are wired a little bit differently, so
some need to be smacked a little bit and some
needed to be padded a little bit. How much is
what Kathy's talking about play into what you did as
a coach.

Speaker 4 (13:35):
Well, what she's talking about is all true, but I
also know this. To play good golf, you have to
be really smart or really stupid, and in between is
what you're talking about. This in between somebody who's really
smart can do all this stuff. Somebody stupid, it doesn't
make any difference. They'll just keep on going and they
can handle the rejection that goes on on our course. Okay,
and that's what I see. What she's talking about is great,

(13:57):
it's great from a deal here, but you know what
comes first, confidence or good shots?

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (14:02):
Either one, right, fundamentals come first. Learn fundamentals and you
hit good shots. And because when you're playing on playing
on the range and playing out there are two different things, right,
two different things. But you have to be able to
playing golf is playing golf. And that's what I said.
You know, some of the best players I know, I
mean I just think of Samsony people like that, and

(14:26):
you know, I mean they had no clue about this
mental thing.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Sure, yeah right, yeah, well.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
But today today is different because you've got people now
who can really think. Now when I'm dealing with especially
on the guys, that was not a problem. The girls
was a different story. Now, it's it's about affirmation. It's
about giving positive things. It's about two pats on the
back and one slap on the butt, you know that

(14:52):
type of thing. So there's a psychological part to you
know that they have. So it's a big part of
what's going on, what she's talking about, to go through that.
But you know, it just takes, like I said, you
to play this game really smart or really stupid, you know,
one of the two.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
But Dennis, what do you do for people that want
to try and get better then or what advice can
you give them to potentially become better in that area?

Speaker 4 (15:17):
Oh, you got to find out where are they making
the mistake. I mean it's difficult to go ahead out
on the course and you're hitting drivers and you don't
know what the hell you're doing. Well, you got to
get the fundamentals right and that'll give you the good shot,
and then a good shot gives you confidence. That's my strategy.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah, And Kathy, you were just talking about taking them
to the range and if somebody's sitting five out of ten,
maybe they should be hitting some four irons off the tee.
I think is where Dennis is going to that. You know,
if you're going to play, play the right t's and
do some of that. Kathy, I want to I want
to bring you back to the joy of the game
because you had a podcast talking about your dad as
he got older and he lost some of the joy

(15:57):
in the game. But he was playing a golf course
not have been suited for him and he joined a
new one. Right. That was part of that podcast, and
it was a shorter So joy can come back to
the game as you age, even if where you've played
most of your life. Maybe that doesn't work as well
for you, or you're not playing the right tees. Can
you expound on that a little bit?

Speaker 5 (16:18):
Yeah, the story I was telling, so, my dad was
a golf ro He just passed away at the end
of June, and he just lived and breathes golf and
it was a very good golfer, competitive golfer. But he
was golf pro and then owned golf courses and he's
loved He played pretty much every single day. But as
he got older.

Speaker 8 (16:36):
He.

Speaker 5 (16:38):
Wasn't enjoying the game as much because he didn't move
his teas. And then to move his tees from the
course that he was playing, he would have meant going
up to something that might have been labeled the ladies teas, right,
and so that was his ego is not going to
allow that to happen. So he started playing less golf
and not enjoying his experience out there as he was
losing distance, and so he ended up puitching golf courses

(17:00):
to it. And this is in Florida, that's right. This
is in southwest Florida. Some of those golf courses are
suited a little bit more for the older population where
the team markers. You know, my brother his name is
double Hart, and so he played on the tour for
a long time. And my dad would tell Dudley and
I and he goes, you're gonna love this golf courses
is like the most amazing golf course. You guys are
going to have to join it. And we went out
and played, and Dudley and I looked at each other

(17:22):
like what is happening? Because it was really a mickey
mouse golf course. We could we lost like six balls
easy just by hitting it into the condos and into
into trouble or through fairways, and there wasn't one hole
that we could really hit drivers off of. But it's
designed for people who don't hit as far, don't go
as side as far as sideways right, so it's said

(17:42):
to them the fairways team really wide. So anyway, it
brought the joy back to the game because he changed
his perspective about and he changed the situation so that
he could find fun again and play the middle of
tey markers, you know, relative to the sets that they had.
So it's important to find especially as we're getting older.
If people get older and they start noticing that maybe

(18:03):
they're not hitting it as far, or they're not they're
not as they used to be in life. It's just
not worth arguing with that part of it. It's about
finding the joy and what you actually can do at
that moment that your experience on the golf course is
more enjoyable. Because if you're going to decide to spend
a lot of time playing the game of golf, it

(18:23):
really is about the time that you spend out there
being enjoyable. And it's about shifting your mindset and sometimes
your circumstances in this case, so that you can get
that done.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
Keavy, what do you do to change the mindset and
the confidence level of people in terms of getting them
to accept the fact that they don't play as well
as they used to and that type of thing.

Speaker 5 (18:45):
Well, that's about shifting your identity about yourself, right. So
we have a story coach. I coach people from you know,
CEOs and doctors and trial lawyers to you know, I
got a guy's a big deal in the Wall Street.
To people who are former professional golfers or college players
or even really really good athletes in other sports, and

(19:07):
they struggle with their identity of themselves as far as
what their expectations on who they think they are relative
to playing the game of golf. And so if you
go out, let's say, if we're talking about somebody who
played college golf and really was very successful, and now
they're shooting, they're shooting, you know, much higher numbers. They
don't want to go out and play because they don't

(19:28):
like how the game makes them feel. It makes them
feel like they're not as a story that they create
about a number. And it's always about shifting and understanding
no matter who you are, whether you're the Wall Street
guy who wants doesn't think that his scores matches reputation,
or if it's the college player who doesn't think their
scores people are expecting them to shoot scores they played

(19:50):
when they played college or professional golf. It's important to
remember that numbers are neutral. So a score is neutral.
You are not your golf scorer. Your identity is not
your golf score. Us the number, and as players can
start detaching from a number meaning something about them, allowing
them to create a story about themselves, which usually sounds
like I suck and I'm not good enough, then then

(20:11):
they're going to be able to enjoy the game more
but if you're going to go out and shoot eighty five,
and eighty five is going to make you beat the
craft out of yourself at the end of the day,
and you're going to shame yourself for shooting eighty five,
then what's going to happen is you're going to tee
off and put so much pressure on your golf game
not to shoot eighty five, and you're wondering why you're
having a hard time relaxing on the golf course, Because

(20:32):
how you get to feel and how you get to
talk to yourself is based on a number and a score,
and so it's about changing and shifting really your identity
about yourself and making sure that you understand that numbers
are neutral, scores are neutral, and it doesn't mean that
we don't want to play well. I'm not saying that
it's about not It's about going out there and perhaps
shooting a number that you don't like, but making it

(20:54):
neutral about who you are. You still get to talk,
you know, well, to yourself and feel good about yourself
even if you didn't perform the way you wanted to
do on that day. And if you're you know, we
we sign up as golfers to stand up on the
tea box any day and and anticipate being disappointed, frustrated,
pissed off, upsets, having anxiety, having worry, being excited. And

(21:18):
if you that's that's available to us when we play golf.
You can have seven emotions on one hole. So if
we're not willing to have that experience, then you're being
you know, you're you're going to struggle playing the game
of golf. So that's going to happen. It's just about
how what you make the numbers mean about you at
the end of the day.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Kathy, really good stuff. I appreciate that that Nikki put
us in touch with you. And what about this word handicap,
the handicap?

Speaker 4 (21:42):
Yeah, well, why don't you play your handicap? Well, take
a score net your handicap. I shot sixty nine today, you.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Know, take your net score at my point, Yeah, she's.

Speaker 7 (21:55):
She's okay, Well listen, Sis, I'm coming into the member guests.
I have words to say with you.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
We'd like to record that. I might want to record.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
That, Kathy, can you just give us a sample of
what you're.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Going to tell? Maybe not to be in the commercial bridge, Kathy.
For those who want to uh to maybe take advantage
of listening to podcast or seeing some of your other work.
Let me give you a moment to promote what you do.

Speaker 5 (22:29):
Oh yeah, So my podcast is called Think Above. Party
can get on any of the platforms that you listen
to podcasts on. You can also find the link in
my bio on my Instagram which is Kathy heart Would
and then my website is also Kathyheartwood dot com and
so you can find more information about that there. I
have so many people who get back to me. I

(22:51):
give so much content free content on my podcast that
so many people get back to me about how they've
gotten so many great results. So I always encourage people
to start there. If you want to take the work
a little bit, peper to contact me.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Very good and we can't wait to sit in on
your conversation with Tis this weekend.

Speaker 5 (23:08):
Okay, I'm sure more than one by.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah, right, Kathy, Thank you appreciate it.

Speaker 7 (23:15):
Okay, thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, Kathy joining us. We're going to visit with Gary Demodel.
That'll be a conversation of a different sort when we
come back. As we continue with talking golf at TPC Wisconsin.

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We're back.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
Along with the Mike Keller, Dennis Disiyanni, and I'm Paul Brown.
And joining us now is Gary Demonto, the senior writer
for Wisconsin dot Com. And Gary, I know you're a
guy that loves golf. You had to thoroughly enjoy what
happened at the Olympics and taking a look at the
reaction of Jeffler. That was pretty genuine about playing a

(27:03):
sport where you win for the country you're from. That
was a highlight of that thing.

Speaker 14 (27:09):
Yeah, it was great. You know, Scotty, what a year?
He said. You know, I think last week or the
week before, we talked about Player of the Year, and
I said, I think I was on record of saying
Xander self Lee should win it with the two majors.
But I think the Olympics flips that script and puts
Scottie back on top. Because he won a Master's, he
won a players Championship, he won four other tournaments, and

(27:32):
now he won a gold medal. Pretty hard to top that.
I mean, he's had a phenomenal, phenomenal year and that
it was great to see his reaction as the star
spangled banner in national anthemos Blaita. He was weeping up
there on the stand. You love to see that emotion
come out of somebody who so obviously loves what he's
doing and you know, loves his country and loves everything
that he represents. It was cool.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah. I think we saw that in tennis too with Djokovic,
and we saw and we've seen it in other sports
of that aren't just considered Olympic sports. So you know,
the next time we get significant golf this year, it
will be for some who pay attention to the FedEx

(28:14):
and the Charles Schwab Cup, but also then the President's Cup.
But we're looking at a month and a half away
from some of that, so it was good to see
Olympic golf. Let me ask you. You had mentioned about
Eddie Langert. He died recently started Taylor Made Golf and
was head pro at Oneida in Green Bay. What are

(28:35):
your reflections on his contributions? Tis, Did you know.

Speaker 4 (28:40):
Eddie very well? But he didn't start Taylor Made.

Speaker 15 (28:44):
Well.

Speaker 14 (28:44):
He and Gary Adams did.

Speaker 4 (28:46):
No, Gary Adams did and and Eddie Eddie took a
spin off of that. But Gary Adams was the person.
In fact, Gary Adams used to stay with me in
my house when he was selling for PGA, and he
said to ask me one day, he says, hey, I'd
like to have you be an investor in my company.
Can you give me fifty thousand? Of course, fifty thousand

(29:08):
back then was like fifty billion. But it was Gary
Adams and uh, what's the name of the what's the
name of the the wedge? What do they call the wedge? Anyway,
that's na that that's named after his h his clubmaker,

(29:28):
you know, you know, but Eddie was a spin off
of that, and there's another set of club irons that
he had and I I know, yes, I know him
very well. It was Eddie was he was the president
of the PGA when he asked me if I would
like to be on one of the one of the
officers way back. Why, I'll tell you what. He was

(29:51):
really a good player and a great any great person.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yeah, Eddie was. Yeah, I know him really well. But Gary,
your reflections on on Eddie Lane.

Speaker 14 (30:01):
Yeah, you know, I never met him. I heard so
much about him, you know, as I covered golf over
the last couple of decades, And just about two months
ago I reached out to him to try to interview him,
and his son got back to me and said he's
he's probably not in good enough shape to do an interview.
We're hoping that he you know, he was ill or
I'm not sure what was going on with him, but

(30:23):
his son said, we're hoping that he kind of recovers
from what he's got and that he'll be able to
do an interview with you here in a few weeks. Well,
obviously it didn't happen, and it's my great regret that
I didn't get to talk to Eddie and you know Dennis,
obviously he's right. Gary Adams founded Taylor Made and it
was his club, but he brought Eddie langerd on very
early in the process. And I know they went down

(30:45):
to the PG Show in nineteen seventy nine and they
had like no money left. They were out of money,
and they won a golf bet with Evil Knievel of
all people, and as part of that, as part of
winning the bet, Evil caneval to sign an autograph at
the Golf Show, which wasn't much of a golf show
back then, but so was. He signed autographs and that

(31:07):
drew the club pros to Eddie to Taylor Made his
little booth, and they wound up doing one hundred and
fifty thousand dollars worth of business because of that bet
that they went with Evil Knievel. So that's really what
God Taylor made going. And of course, you know Gary
Adams was the inventor of the club and everything. Dennis
is absolutely right about that, but it was it was
Eddie who was the marketing teamius sort of behind it.

(31:29):
He was a marketing whiz and he's the one who
gave all the names to the clubs, a tour spoon,
the chrome ball or whatever they call it, the ball,
but it was that was all his his stuff. I
really wish I had got a chance to talk to
him before he passed.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah. I met with a couple of guys over the
last few weeks that have made a tour around the
state and played some of these golf courses that you
get to play, like going Toledo and you know, obviously
Aaron Hills and here it is. We've said this many times,

(32:06):
but the idea of maybe making that tour around the
state to play at Century World and Mammoth and Liedo
and TPC. You can't go wrong with all of the
great golf that's offered here, and it's not all private.
You can find your way around.

Speaker 14 (32:24):
Oh absolutely, I mean the golf it's you know, all
the magazine ratings have shown that Wisconsin is the best
state in the nation for public golf. Now, you know,
New York and Californias and states have more esteemed you know,
private clubs, but but for public golf, I mean, we're
we're number one in the nation right now. The word
has been out for some time and people are starting

(32:45):
to flock here. And it's not just it's Century World,
it's the Sand Valley, the colder stuff of Sonya Aaron Hills.
But you know after that, there's another thirty or forty
courses that are you know, really great, great public golf courses,
Wild Rock Trappers to Troy Burn. You can go on
and on and u And the great thing about it
is if you know, people come to our state to

(33:07):
put on a trip, and if they organize it right,
I mean, it's only an hour or two drive between
all these courses. It's not like you're in a car
for four or five hours trying to get from one
place to the next. So I sound like an underbashed
cheerleader for Wisconsin golf, but hey, it's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Yeah, And I'm curious because you kind of Dennis does too.
You have hear to the ground of things that are happening,
but it you know, most of the stuff has happened
near Sand Valley in recent is there are there other
projects that are you guys listen and know what's going on.
Is there some fun stuff maybe percolating in the state
or we are we at a level now that they're

(33:45):
in a whole ton more gonna happen?

Speaker 14 (33:48):
Well, right now, there's not. Oh go ahead, Dennis, No,
you go ahead.

Speaker 4 (33:52):
You're a big shot. I want to tell you one
more Gary Adams.

Speaker 14 (33:58):
Story because oh yeah, you.

Speaker 4 (34:00):
Know, Gary Adams is the founder and the person behind thing.
I know where you're going with this other guy, but
Gary Adams is the guy. But I'll tell you one
story really quick. You know he had cancer of the
neck or the of something there esophagus. Yeah, Gary did,
and he's gone for a while. Well, he was recovering.

(34:22):
So one day he called me and he said he'd
like to have lunch with me, and he's going to
take his mom. So we met over here in a
deal and he says he started out by saying congratulations
on winning those big tens and I thought, jeez, that
was three years ago. He has been not a touch
for sure. So we got into what he was doing

(34:44):
with his cancer thing, and he says, you know, I
got this thing, he says, And I was on the
operating table and this big light was there and I
got to see this light and the next thing I knew,
he said, I was sliding down this banister, he says,
And I was in a sho box like a I
was in a shoe box like a foot joy box,
he says. I was sliding down and I got to

(35:05):
the end and I heard a voice saying I'm not
ready for you yet. And I was cured when I
got out of there. And that's something, there's something you
can write about any The other boy is really a
good boy. He was a he was a good player

(35:26):
and he was a good friend too, and and you're
right about that. I saw some of the clubs that
he made which were off brands of what he was
talking about, but they were all takeaways of the Wilson model.
The Wilson Club was the WESD Club, and uh, they
were all takeaways of that. But the marketing was another thing.
Then he sold it to French, France someplace. Who'd he

(35:48):
sell that to? Tailor Made?

Speaker 14 (35:51):
Yeah? It was a company from Europe.

Speaker 4 (35:53):
Yeah, yeah, he sold that to Europe. So now we
got Titleist is over there, and that's over there. We
got all these company but he's over there in Europe.
You know.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
Anyway, you got your You got your like you Mike
was talking about. You guys are involved. You got your
nose to this base about it, so to speak, and
get some insight into what's going on. Do you hear
anything from your perspective that's changing between LIV and the PGA,
I mean anything. You don't hear much about it right now?

(36:25):
Maybe there's nothing to.

Speaker 14 (36:26):
Report right now. I don't think there is. I haven't
heard anything really for months now. They seem to be
at a standstill. I know they're both working on schedules
not only for next year but the year after. So
are they going to ever come together? I think they
have to at some point, but I haven't heard any
any news about any any further talks or anything that

(36:48):
they're getting closer to anything.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
It's too bad. It harms the entire game. That it's
separate entities, without question. Gary from Wisconsin Dot Golf. Gary Dematto,
always appreciate you being here. We'll look forward to the
next time we visit next week.

Speaker 14 (37:04):
Thanks so much, Gun.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
Thank you Gary, Gary Demono, Wisconsin dot Golf. I want
to make sure I say that right because there's a
different website that it's unrelated, but it is. Yeah, they do.

Speaker 4 (37:16):
Without that group, you know, with the information that's being
given out here, we don't know what the hell's going on.
They follow all these kids, all these kids that they
rate and stuff like that. Fabulous, what's going on. I
don't know anyplace else that has something like this. Hey,
one note from your brother. He better not be listening
because everything everything he said, one note from your brother.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
Larry was up in Monoco with this past weekend. They
played mona Monocula Country Club and he was talking about
the State Open is going to be held up there,
and he goes the fairways. He was surprised how wide
the fairways are up there public and he said some
of the young guys are going to go up there
and have a field day.

Speaker 4 (37:57):
With a question with that golf, it's a beautiful course. However,
it's really nice and there's something you're not going to stop.
Well that guy that hits at three hundred and twenty
thirty yards. I don't care where they play, you know,
they're just gonna We got a guy here played our
fifth toll second hole, you know, our second home. You
really want to try this in two to go over
that box?

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, well, I'll.

Speaker 4 (38:18):
Tell you what. He's seventeen years old and he hit
a five iron on his second shot on the ground.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
Wow, five iron. And you got a guy in the
pro shop, a guy named Mike. Yeah, yeah, he's a
good shot sixty three at the ridge, oh yeah, yeah,
twenty nine, but he missed the three foot for front.

Speaker 4 (38:35):
Twenty eight front.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
That's a pretty good score from Well.

Speaker 4 (38:39):
He's here for he's picking up things. You know, he's
when we're giving lessons and stuff, and he played on
some of these tours. But again it's that same deal.
We come back here. You get the physics right because
mentally he's got the stuff, and you know, he teaches
here and he does a good job with the juniors
and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
So missed a three footer for a twenty eight over there,
that's a good school.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Speaking of teaching, Travis is in next going the lesson
t As we continue on Talking Golf at TPC Wisconsin.

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Speaker 3 (42:20):
At TPC Wisconsin here at Madison along with Travis Becker,
who's Director of Golf at TPC. I'm Paul Brown, PGA
Junior League. This thing started a number of years ago,
as I understand it, Travis. Somebody scribbled on a sheet
of paper an idea and now it's taken off for

(42:40):
young people who want to play golf. And depending on
what state you're in or taking a countrywide, there's over
about a half a million people over the years that
have been involved in this thing. Give us the quick
background on what this is.

Speaker 19 (42:54):
Sure it's here at TPC Wisconsin. We focus on the
thirteen and under kids. There's also another program under the
PGA Junior League for seventeen and under. We've had our
success with the younger kids. But what it is is, basically,
it's a way for kids to get together in a
team atmosphere and play golf.

Speaker 4 (43:15):
They kind of took it from Little League Baseball.

Speaker 19 (43:17):
So the kids on your team actually wear golf shirt
jerseys with a number with a number in their name
on the back of it. Typically you are playing a
scramble format. It would be a two person team and
you're taking on other teams within your area. So for example,
here we play against some of the Madison golf courses,

(43:38):
private and public. We travel to Janesville, we travel to Beloit,
we actually travel to Green Bay and the kids play
nine holes and two different formats. One format for kind
of the younger kids's match play, so every three holes
is worth a flag they call it. And the older
kids we play an aggregate score, so out of the

(43:58):
four teams that we have, we get take the three
lowest of the four score. So it's more like getting
them ready for high school golf.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
Yeah, and you talk about that format and the scramble.
I like that because both hit a drive for an example,
but then at that point you get a chance to
hit different shots, right.

Speaker 4 (44:16):
Correct, It's a little less pressure on the kids.

Speaker 19 (44:18):
So you got two kids tee and off and they
pick the best shot, then they both get to hit
from that location. They keep repeating that procedure into the
golf balls hold. It's fun when they're playing match play
because now they're playing against two other kids, and then
they learn the match play rules with giving putts to
each other and not really playing against the course, but

(44:39):
playing against their opponents. And then as they get better
and more advanced and they make their way up onto
the all star team, we call it they play where
they have to hold everything out and it's an aggregate
but still a scramble format.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
And you can progress in this and you can go
all the way to the championships, right.

Speaker 19 (44:56):
Correct, Yeah, this is a a national program. Let's run
through the PGA of America here in Wisconsin. I couldn't
tell you how many teams there are, but there's got
to be over one hundred PG Junior League teams coming
in mid August here all the all star teams will
get together. So typically, if you're in a league with
four other golf courses, you would pick your best eight

(45:18):
players between the four courses and they would represent your
league to play at the Section Championship, which is going
to be this year held that pleasant View on August eighteenth.
They'll have the twenty seven holes. There's going to be
three matches on each each are I'm sorry, I'm gonna
messing that up a little bit. There's going to be
the twenty seven holes, there's gonna be three winners, and

(45:40):
the winners from each one of those will then play
at University Ridge in the afternoon for to basically represent
the state of Wisconsin in the Midwest Regional.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
And we have a new member here at TPC. His
name is Joel Pavelski. If that rings a bell with
anybody that follows hockey, he was a badger. He also
spent about eighteen years or seventeen in the National Hockey League.
He's a plus two golfer who finished second in the
celebrity tournament out in Lake Tahoe. And I understand he

(46:10):
has a young son that's starting to follow in his footstops.

Speaker 4 (46:13):
Huh, we do it.

Speaker 19 (46:14):
Nate is on our team and he hits it a
mile for a thirteen year old, really good player. We
actually have three pretty good hockey players on that team.
We've got another young man by the name of Brooks
Souter whose dad is Ryan, who also played with Joe,
and then Max Toffaker, who Luke was very well known
in the hockey world as well. So we've got three
hockey players and we're trying to convert them into golfers.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
And talk about the success that you've had with the program.

Speaker 19 (46:41):
Yeah, I've been fortunate to be part of this for
a little over ten years now, and I've got to
take three teams that have gone on to win the
state championship and represent Wisconsin at the regional None of
them have ever made it past that point. We're hoping
that maybe this is a different year. This year, we
do have another good team where we think we will
contend for that state title again. But it's you get

(47:03):
to go play golf courses in cog Hill. We've played
in Illinois. Our regional is Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Illinois.
So that's who we will be facing.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
If somebody's listening to this and they got a son
or a daughter that they wait a minute, I think
he or he could be part of this. How do
they get involved in this?

Speaker 19 (47:21):
Yeah, So we start this program in early May and
typically the beginning of the year we have five or
six practices where all the practices are done on course,
so it's all about them learning how to play and score.
And then June, July, and August is all the matches
and it's usually one almost every weekend either Saturday or

(47:41):
Sunday where we're either playing here at home against the
team where we're going on the road and traveling. So
to you know, if anyone's interests open to members and
non members, they can contact us through our website TPC
Wisconsin dot com. Just go to the Golf Academy portion
of the website, fill out a inquiry and we'll follow
up with you.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
You know, what seems kind of cool about this is
the camaraderie, building friendships, competing, learning that you can't be
successful all the time, and this kind of it seems
like a great learning experience for young people.

Speaker 4 (48:14):
It is great.

Speaker 19 (48:15):
I've had a few kids, even Ryan Beck, who is
one of our assistant professionals. He was on one of
my teams on the thirteen and under that won a
state championship, and obviously he fell in love with the
game at a very young age and now is making
it a career where he's getting into the business. There's
other kids that play college golf right now that we're
on our junior league teams, and they still tell me
stories about junior league, so it definitely makes a good

(48:38):
imprint on them.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
You have a big circle of things that you're involved
with in terms of golf and instruction in the academy
and that kind of thing, but this one might be
kind of special, isn't it because of the young people.

Speaker 4 (48:49):
It is.

Speaker 19 (48:50):
It's the kids. It's awesome working with them, it's great
working with the families. It's just it's a great thing
to be a part of any pro out there. You're
not doing PGA Junior League. I highly recommend you start
doing it. Any kids that have a little bit of
interest in the game, I recommend this could hook them
for good.

Speaker 4 (49:09):
Well, good luck.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
Hopefully you can bring some championships back right Thank you.

Speaker 4 (49:14):
We hope.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
So that's Travis Becker and this is TPC Wisconsin and
we talk about the PGA Junior League. If you want
just contact Travis and the group out here at TPC.
We'll be back after this time out. This is TPC Wisconsin.

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(52:01):
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Speaker 9 (52:20):
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Speaker 2 (52:30):
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Speaker 10 (52:32):
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Speaker 2 (52:41):
Back with you on talking golf at t TPC Wisconsin
and Madison. I'll get it right. Bobby Stricker joins us
here on what will be our final segment tonight. Bobby,
you are in Wichita. Last week we talked about it.
We need a couple updates, out of which tollgo and
then I got a title this question. But let's talk
about the tournament last week. First.

Speaker 15 (53:02):
Yes, I just got back yesterday.

Speaker 21 (53:05):
It was tons of fun, really hot in Kansas right now.

Speaker 7 (53:08):
Really no played.

Speaker 21 (53:11):
I played well, I made the cut, played a really
nice first round shot one under, and then did not
play super well the second.

Speaker 7 (53:22):
But made the cut.

Speaker 21 (53:25):
Yeah, and didn't really play the best on the weekend,
but took a lot of positives. I guess I'm trying
to I played a really nice round yesterday and then
made an eight. Uh so it was two under, made
an eight on my fifteenth hole, struggled with the whole
all week but finished strong. So just had really one

(53:47):
bad hole. But yeah, last tournament of my of my season,
and I had a ton of fun.

Speaker 4 (53:54):
Though.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
You're going to transition now and Q School. This is
what it's been about. You wanted to get your game
and the condition that you wanted it to be to
go out to Q School. So give us a sense
of that calendar a few weeks off, but it is
next for you.

Speaker 4 (54:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 15 (54:11):
So actually, when I was in Kansas, I ended up
fitting the woods that I was waiting on, the driver
three wood five woods that I was waiting on.

Speaker 21 (54:21):
And my mom was awesome and ended up sending them
to me in Kansas. So I really really wanted to
play with those woods in like a tournament setting, just
under pressure. You just make different swings when you're in
a tournament rather than being home and have a ton
of balls to hit. Obviously, so I actually got to
play this last tournament with my new woods, which was huge.

(54:44):
I just I literally played my first round on Thursday,
was I hadn't hit them yet, and I just wanted
I wanted to do it, and I'm really glad that
I did that, And so definitely need to work on
them though, and don't know if they're like quite ready.
I hope in the next two weeks I have two
weeks home here that I can kind of get them

(55:04):
dialed a little bit more. But yeah, just gonna spend
a lot of time out here at TPC. My dad
is also home and my teacher, so just work with
him on some things. I have some things that I
really want to work on that I struggled with at Kansas,
like forty yard web shots for example, like the awkward

(55:25):
like thirty forty yards that usually it's you know, into
a part five where you're trying to make birdie or
you were in trouble and chipped out of the trees
and now you have to get up and down from
thirty yards, you know, So it's kind of an important
yard is whatever way you you're you know, you're playing it.
So I have things that I want to work on

(55:46):
but I know these two weeks are.

Speaker 5 (55:48):
Going to go buy really fast.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Well, it's so exciting and fun to watch your progression,
and you know it's it's uh last week in fact
all summer. I know the polls on this too. I'm
just looking up the website to follow the leaderboard daily
when you're playing in one of Anaka's tournaments, just to
see how you're doing. And we'll be doing the We'll

(56:11):
be doing the same thing in a couple of weeks
down the road with Q School, and we'll talk before then,
but we wish you all the best as you work
through to that endeavor.

Speaker 21 (56:19):
Thank you guys so much.

Speaker 7 (56:21):
I appreciate you guys.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Thanks Bobby, Bobby Stricker joining us. We'll talk a little
bit longer next week about the preparation with Steve, her
dad and Grandpa. Maybe a little bit too about getting
ready for Q school coming up later this month. Our
thanks to Kathy Hardy joined us earlier, Gary Tomato, Bobby
Stricker and Travis as well. That's another edition of Talking Golf.

(56:43):
We'll do this again next Monday night. Talking Golf from
TPC Wisconsin in Madison,