Talking Golf 9-9-24

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Talking Golf at TPC Wisconsin is on the air for
Talking Golf is brought to you by American Family Insurance,
TPC Wisconsin, Oak Park Place, Wild Rock Golf club Simbrit
mer Cities, Benz of Madison, also University Ridge Golf Course,

(00:23):
Ridge Top Exteriors, Cleary Building Corp. And Nevada Bob's Now
from the new home of TPC Wisconsin and Madison. Here
are the hosts of Talking Golf. Member of the Wisconsin
Golf Hall of Fame, the legendary Dennis Tizziani, longtime Madison
sportscaster Paul Brown, and Wisconsin sports veteran and state wide

(00:44):
radio host Mike Hallender.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well, we welcome you into TPC Wisconsin in Madison, and
we've only got two more of these tonight and one
more and then the well, the golf season doesn't go away,
but the Talking Golf season and goes away until next spring.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
The guy in the middle has wound up tonight. I'm
not sure exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, Well, we're going to settle him down because we're
going to talk about one of his favorite topics here
out of the gate course conditions. I about to talk
to you about green speeds. We have this conversation a
while ago about what the ideal is. And I don't
know what the ideal is, but I know this. Green
speeds have changed generationally. You know, you can look at

(01:28):
some of the videos from Palmer and Gary Player, and
you know Ben Hogan and those greens were slow. These
greens today are vastly different. Where do you come down
on the idea of green speeds? And I know there
are a lot of variables involved.

Speaker 4 (01:45):
Well, you've got to have it a green speed so
that the every pot's a straight putt, only the ground
makes it go crooked, right, Okay, So you have to
have a speed so that when it takes the movement
on the ground, that it goes and somehow you'd have
to be in that oh ten to eleven range. That's

(02:08):
a normal type of deal. And the grasses are such
today that you could do that. Back then you couldn't.
And if you looked at the style of putting back then,
it was very risty.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
Sure, yeah, yeah, you hit the back of the ball.

Speaker 4 (02:27):
Today, you don't hit the back of the ball. You
put the ball out, put the potter on square, and
you roll the ball.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Of question. Because one of those country clubs fifteen, twenty
twenty five years ago. There's some old country clubs that
are in and around Madison with poe that has grown
into those greens, and those were always very nice. What
did what do you think of that? Well, you pops here.

Speaker 4 (02:51):
But you have those old greens that we're talking about
do not have the undulations that we have now.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Sure you know so well.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
You could get away with slow greens. But the big
item that's different today is the type of grass is different.
The type of grass can withstand difference in heat and
humidity of one hundred and fifty degrees. In other words,
this pole that you get, if you have humidity of

(03:23):
ninety and heat of seventy, you can lose that green
in four hours turns purple. And so the greens today
make it such that you can. Then the other side
of the coin is the ball goes much higher today
than it did then, very much low right to left.

(03:44):
If you took a look at the old style clubs,
they have long hozzles on them. The longer the hozzle,
the more the sweet spot moves to the hozzle. Because
they used to play knock it down and turn it in. Sure,
knock it down as you're always on the inside. Today,
all the weight is out towards a toe, so you

(04:07):
can hit it sweet spot out further and it ball
goes higher so you can get away. A lot of
things have changed, and the greens today so much better
and so much there's actually less maintenance involved, but cutting heights, a.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Little bit more science involved, but less daily maintenance.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
Go ahead, Paul Dennis. There was a big article in
Golf Digest about fast greens and I kind of broke
this down into three different kind of discussion points and
the summary of the article. The speed of the greens
can be a point of pride for the club. It
can also be a point of how people judge quality.

(04:56):
The faster the greens, the better the course. Do you
go along with any of that?

Speaker 4 (05:00):
Absolutely not. Why, well, the faster the greens doesn't mean
that it's a better course. I think there has to
be a green that you can get by, and one
of the big greens. One of the big reasons on
green speed is if they're too fast and people are
three putting, the round of golf gets a half hour longer.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Sure, yeah, yep.

Speaker 4 (05:23):
And you've got to get the greens down so people
can two pot and the balls are going to run,
you know, run sideways.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
Actually, that's another point of the article. It did say
that fast greens can make the game slower and less interesting.
More slope or tilted greens are harder to hit into,
and if you flatten the greens, your position in the
fairway is less important. Softening greens in the name of
speed has impacts beyond putting. What may that be?

Speaker 4 (05:51):
Well, that whole thing about is you've got old style
courses that don't have new style greens, and you get
some courses that are trying to be a new style.
So you've got an old style course with fast greens.
That's no good.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Okay, Yeah, well I have a question about that. I
want to go back to the pride and what golfers
like to play, all right, so hear me out on this.
A generation ago, I worked at a golf course which
was then called the Springs, and the greens out there
would roll at about nine and I don't think that's

(06:30):
ever changed. They're eight and a half or nine. There
are slow greens. Some people, some golfers with lower handicaps,
single digit, low teen handicaps, don't want to play a
golf course whose greens are that slow? Is that a
fair way.

Speaker 4 (06:44):
To look at Sure, don't go to that course, right, Yeah,
that's a nice part.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
But in order to draw people you want, it depends
on who you're trying to draw to your golf course
at some level.

Speaker 4 (06:54):
No, people now are trying to get their games like
they see on TV. Sure not the way it was
in Hogan era in those deals. So you know, if
you want to go to a course that you think
you can be a great putter by having to take
a backswing or a full back swing, yeah, have it.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
So when the redesign happened here to change from Cherokee
to TPC, you change the greens dramatically. There wasn't a
whole lot of slope in the older greens. There wasn't
a whole lot of undulation on those greens, and off
the greens did not have a green complex where you
could put from off the green. I think that's one
of the most significant changes here.

Speaker 4 (07:33):
Why well, the greens that were here were push up greens,
different than the way we do them now. Gravel stone
stand yea topsoil sand again, so there's different stratus of
how that works. So that we can maintain them, not

(07:54):
have compaction, not have thatch. All those things where never
thought of about it before. And if you had adverse conditions,
you lost the greens. I mean where I grew up,
you know, July and August the greens turned brown. You
know that's not the way it works today. You know,

(08:15):
when you build a green like we did here, you
build a green and it has various locales on that
green for pin settings. Okay, and not only that, but
the area around the greens, the surrounds. The surrounds are
part of the green structure. When you take here, we

(08:37):
put the mounds on after the greens were in, so
the greens were never part of the surrounds. They were
part of the green structure. So when you come up
to the green here, you take a look at where
the surrounds are. Oh, it's going to come off the surrounds,
that's one thing. And then you have to find out
the topography of where you're at. I mean, if you're

(08:58):
playing in Arizona, there's a mountain up there, chances are
the ball is going to not break up to the mountain. Here,
from one end to the other, there was a one
foot drop from the north side to the south side,
so it was flat but very uneventful. You know.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, on the greens here they used to putting right.
It used to be called Cherokee streat. We have people right.

Speaker 4 (09:21):
Now that are saying they put way better today. The
hardest putt to make is a straight putt, you know,
forget the hole now. The other thing is is that
in order to use the whole hole, you have to
have the speed that the whole hole will accept. The
speed the faster you are that you shrink the hole.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Right right, those are the lipouts and the balls that
will right. You know.

Speaker 4 (09:47):
There's an old saying, never up, never in. I have
a saying, just up, just in, because you use the
whole four inches and you can do that. When you
can do.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
This, I got one off script, Paul, unless you want
to stay here for a minute.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
Uh no, go ahead, okay?

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Geese all right? Golf course not just here, but golf
courses in this part of the country. It will struggle
and maybe in all parts of the country with geese.
How does that get remedied? What do you do and
is there a process with which to do it? And
remember wearing live radio.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
So I.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
Well, we had this conversation with DNR. Okay, not to
mention any names or everything. And it's a problem because
we have the goose poop everywhere. Yes, And my comment
is this, I have members who have to play through
that poop. Then they go and they take their shoes
off and put it in there in the locker. No, no, Trump.

(10:46):
And then they go to the store to buy groceries
and they put the groceries right next to the poop shoes.
I have a problem with that. What are we going
to do? The answer was shoot them?

Speaker 5 (10:58):
No.

Speaker 4 (10:58):
I don't understand why we couldn't anyway. Here, you shoot
the deer, but the deer don't jump up and hit
the airplanes. Right now, that's a kind of a radical
way to shooting, you know.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:12):
Now we have here some devices that we put on
the edge of our waterways, and when the goose sees it,
it looks like there's two eyes looking at them. Okay,
remedied our problem considerably. We still have some here. But
the other thing is is that the dog.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Sure, some places have gone to dogs historically, and then
you got the.

Speaker 4 (11:37):
Dog running around. What we do is kind of train
our workers just to keep agitating them and get them
off the fairways. If nothing else, but that business along
the side really really really worked for us here.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
Didn't you put something on the teas too that didn't
smell them very well?

Speaker 4 (11:55):
Now that was on the on the flowers. Oh okay,
we put that there and worked to a little bit
so that plus these little gadgets we got that are
on the side of the edges of the deals where
they look at them as if they're a predator of
a sort.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Sure, and they're gone, but it's an issue.

Speaker 4 (12:14):
It's a it's a problem, but not it's not nearly
what it was here. Yeah, since we've been doing this
when we early in the year is everywhere, but since
that time it's gotten better.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, well I was hearing. I don't know like what Steve,
If Steve likes really fast greens, or what Mario likes.
I don't know if speed is a if they have
a favorite condition to play.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
In this article did talk exactly about that. Good players
love fast greens because the faster the greens, the fewer
the whole location, which makes it easier to take and
make those twelve footers. Missing greens on the wrong side
isn't as punishing to them.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
I didn't understand that part. If you miss the green
on the wrong side with fast greens, why would that
be less punished punishing on their next shot? Like if
you short side a green, If you miss the green
and you're short sided on a fast green, aren't you
in more trouble than you would have been on a
slower green if in.

Speaker 4 (13:13):
Fact it's grass. Sure, if it's like we have.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Now where you can put it, Yes, here you can put.

Speaker 4 (13:19):
But now people are getting smarter. Let's take a three
wood or a four wood or your fairwy wood, choke
down on it and use that same putting stroke. Now
what that is is that three wood's the heaviest club
you got in your bag, heavier in your driver. That's
where all the weight is. So now I've got something
that has weight at the bottom and I can do

(13:42):
my putting stroke and get it up no problem at all.
So already we figured out, or if it's been figured
out here, how that can happen.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
I've got one more for you. They also said that
in some cases, fast greens can be an ego thing.
You go along with that at all, Well, I've.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Wait a second for the golf course ego thing or Okay, yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:05):
Yeah, we yes, it's something, but really, I mean, what
about the game of golf. You know, you have to
be able to make a reasonable stroke so that when
you put it your verbiage is.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
In whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 4 (14:21):
You know, you have to have the ability to dye
the ball in the hole. And when you're talking about
those old style greens, yeah, you better hit a dead
center or it's not going in.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, and now on the really fast greens, play slows
down more three putts, sometimes four putts, yeah, because there
are sometimes there aren't those good pin placements to put
a cup on a really fast green. If you put
it in the wrong spot, you're gonna have a lot
of people members or guests who come into play. They're

(14:54):
going to look at you and say, how did you
put the pin there? On fourteen?

Speaker 4 (14:57):
Yeah, you get over eleven? You got to p problem? Yeah,
right over eleven. It's a problem now is here? It's
level all the time because you cut the green in
the morning and you roll them so they're eleven until
about one o'clock. Sure, then we roll them again to
maintain the eleven throughout the whole day.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
But as we get in the fall. Depending on the conditions,
greens get faster.

Speaker 6 (15:21):
No.

Speaker 4 (15:22):
Well, you know if if the verify and do all
those things and you reduce the friction, because the friction
is the is the is the grass. You can reduce
the friction and it goes faster. You can put sand
on it, which then brings the level up, So you're
reducing the friction. There's all those little tricks to go

(15:45):
in and do it, but consistency to your members, to
your players is extremely important. You can't have ten one day,
twelve another day.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
Well, I mean you you you have played through these
changes in green technology and through the changes in green speed.
What did you prefer eleven?

Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yeah, that's why they're eleven.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
You know there's a lot of boats here, but only
one colleague one counts. Yeah, Mike, remember TPC what it
stands for. No, I know his is private clothes.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
Well, eleven works, and the members here like it that
I can come here and I know I'm going to
get the same green speed every day all day.

Speaker 5 (16:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:28):
So that when you practice your stroke, you know, I
don't want to vary the backstroke short head at the distance. Yeah,
because really the object is you never hit the ball
on the back. If you hit the ball, you're consistently
going to be a poor buttter. You want to put
it on square and then really make the putter head
go forward and roll the ball. That's how you do

(16:51):
it well.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
And we've talked about this before, but I would I
would guess your average putting lesson when somebody says, hey,
can you come look at my stroke? The time that
you spend on with somebody on the green average is
about four and a half five minutes.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
Well, if first of all, I checked the grip, I
check the grip in about seventy percent of the people
that I teach the grip's on crooked. The grip of
the club correct, Okay. Then I tell him to grab
the club, take a grip Okay. Then I put it
in a release position and it's this way or that way.
So you got to get their hands on correct. Once
you do that, then you start talking about do you

(17:27):
believe do you believe that the longer the blade can
stay square to the ball towards the ball, the more
accurates you're going to be, Well, yeah, do you believe
that shoulders make the plane?

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (17:41):
Well yeah, so should straight shouldn't.

Speaker 4 (17:44):
Your shoulders then move the same way as But do
you believe every puts a straight putt? Yeah, only the
ground makes it go crooked. So I have to find
a place that I can put the ball to a
point that the ground turns the ball. When the ground
turns the ball, the hole gets this big.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
But you get bad speed, you shrink this drink. So
now we're back is remember when I said bad speed.
So speed is important. So let's find a speed that
you can put that you can consistently get that good
role eleven.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah, And he also talks about the will to putt right,
the will the fact that you I can make this putt.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
Well, that's you know, that's part of the deal here.
You gotta you will it in. But to have fundamental
what comes first? Confidence are good shots? Yeah yeah, neither.
Fundamentals comes first. Then you make putts and then you
get confidence.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:40):
I mean that's how that works, you know. Go round
to around with my girl Kathy y Yeah, and she
finally realizes that what she's talking to is somebody that
has a problem. Yeah, I'm talking to somebody who wants
to make butts. Yeah, they don't have a problem, so different.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
But there's a lot of people that have a problem.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Oh yeah, you're looking at two of them right here.
Maybe not the guy in the middle, but the other two.

Speaker 4 (19:07):
Keet those fundamentals. Yeah, you're gonna work on that. You know.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Gary Demato's hanging in the wings. He's at that Hickory tournament. Yeah,
today and tomorrow, so we'll ask him what's going on there.
Gary Tomato, he is with Wisconsin Dot Golf and he'll
join us on the other side. By the way. Bobby
Stricker in here later and Travis has a golf lesson
in between as we continue talking golf at TPC Wisconsin.

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Speaker 3 (22:37):
Welcome back Wisconsin along with Mike Keller, Dennis Tuziani, and
I'm Paul Brown. And joining us now is Gary Dematto,
who's at Kenosha Country Club where the US Hickory Open
golf tournament is going on. And Gary, you said, a
couple of weeks ago you were really looking forward to
this and first impressions of that.

Speaker 6 (22:58):
Event, well, it was like taking a time machine and
coming out of out of the capsule and it's nineteen
twenty eight. Because everyone dresses in period outfits, you know,
knickers plus fours for the guys, and neck ties and
long sleeve shirts and for the women, you know, skirts

(23:19):
and blouses, and it was really interesting. I watched him
warm up. I watched a guy named Paolo Querici from Switzerland.
He played on the DP World Tour for thirteen years
and he plays exclusively now Hickory golf. I mean, he
doesn't even play regular golf anymore. Fifty six year old guy.
I watched him hit twenty shots in a row with

(23:41):
a niblic which is a wedge one hundred year old niblic,
and he hit every shot sixty yards within five or
six feet of each other. So it was pretty impressive.
I can't wait to see what the scores are. You
know who wins this thing tomorrow. It's because it's a
pretty cool golf.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
I'm curious, Dennis, did you ever wear plus fours the
knickers ever? Not once at one time in your life?
Never happened.

Speaker 4 (24:04):
No, But I'll tell you a story.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
I like stories.

Speaker 4 (24:08):
There's a there's a fella here, Oh what is his name?

Speaker 3 (24:12):
Steve Zimer? Are you talking about?

Speaker 4 (24:14):
No, there's a good player played in knickers all the time,
old time guy.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
Okay, you know I'm talking about No, I don't, oh smith.

Speaker 4 (24:22):
No, No, really old and uh I played with him
down in Florida. Yeah, and we hit balls and he
was hitting the raybells. But then we want to take
a picture. Him and I Rich Klark take a picture
and he was in regular pants and he made a statement.
He says, Now, Oh, I just got to tell you guys,

(24:43):
that picture can't go anyplace because I have a one
hundred dollars bet with my buddy that would never be
caught on the golf course without without knickers on.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
How about you, Gary Demono, have you ever donned the
plus fours?

Speaker 4 (24:58):
I'd like to see that.

Speaker 6 (25:00):
Yeah, I don't know if you'd want to see that.

Speaker 4 (25:02):
I have never I'd like to see that. You'd like
to see him in that skirt?

Speaker 9 (25:05):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, well that's skirt.

Speaker 6 (25:08):
I saw a couple. I saw a couple of kills
out there today. They had a bad bake paper. But
I would definitely, you know, with my hairline, I would
definitely consider wearing one of those newsboys.

Speaker 5 (25:19):
Yeah, that's as.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Far as I go.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Well, Paint Stewart's the last one that did it consistently
on the tour, had the contract uh with with the
National Football League, but he was I believe he would
be the last one that consistently. I know the Bryson
Schambeau went with the plus fours for a little bit.
But the last one that did it at any length,
unless I'm wrong, Gary would have been Pain.

Speaker 9 (25:40):
No.

Speaker 6 (25:41):
I think you're right. And you know, another interesting thing
about Pain is that all his leather shoes, you know
he wore those little fancy wingtips, are really beautiful, like
alligator leather shoes, all made by a guy named Paul
Raddit in uh in Pewaukee. All the shoes for those
you know, four or five six thousand dollars, there's a
leather shoes for some of those guys.

Speaker 5 (26:03):
Stuff.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, So that that tournament is going on? Is it tomorrow?
Is the second and final round? Am I right on
that you are?

Speaker 6 (26:11):
It's thirty six old tournament. There's an open division, and
then there's flights, and then there's a women's division. There's
only twelve women who entered the US US sickly Open.
But I tell you what these guys and women can play.
I mean the playing the course at about sixty two
hundred yards in the open division, which doesn't sound like

(26:31):
you know, it's not doesn't sound like a lot compared
to today's courses, but you better remember Hickey Hickory drivers
by about twenty percent shorter than you know. The matter and.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
Equipment, Gary, I don't know if you are you from
the oiler with Steve Seimer.

Speaker 5 (26:48):
It does, but I don't know what right.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
He was a member here at Cherokee for many years
and uh, Dennis, he's an outstanding player. In fact, I
don't know the exact total, but he's won something like
twenty tournaments. He's a state champion, yeah, and he's won
some national stuff too. And he's dead serious about what
do they.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Use on the greens? How is that putter? Different gear?

Speaker 4 (27:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (27:14):
The equipment has to be pre nineteen thirty five or
authentic replica clubs that are approved for you. So there's
actually a guy who goes around and looks in all
the bags and make sure that the equipment is, you know,
is legitimate. And so the putters are you know, wooden
shafted putters with these big wooden heads or else the
real small like blades that sure, gosh, you know, I

(27:37):
can't imagine petting with one of those things. But these
are one hundred and twenty year old putters that they're using.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
Tis what was that like when you're butting with those
what he did there?

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Did you ever seriously play seriously did you ever play
it a lot with hickory stuff in your day?

Speaker 2 (27:55):
No, no, per simmon for Simon.

Speaker 4 (27:59):
Yeah, but you know Hickory. I'll tell you what the
hard part about hickory is, it has a lot of
radio torque. Sure, it's very difficult because it twists. Not
only twist, but it bows down. So that's a real
hard thing to do. And you'll see those guys here.
You won't see too many high shots.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
I wondered if did they control the stiffness of the
hickory shafts back in the day or were they essentially
you got what.

Speaker 4 (28:26):
You got, You got what you got? Yeah, you know,
but it's the head. Sure, all those clubs have long hozzles. Yeah,
so that the sweet spot is very close to the neck, permit.
What's made that club a turnover and that's where it
comes low and run. In old time courses, you'll notice

(28:49):
don't have too many traps in front of the group.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
You had to wind those hozzles. What was that material?
You know, you know what I'm talking about with it
thick to skinny as it went up the shaft with
the and it would come loose and start to unravel
down near the head on the hozzle.

Speaker 4 (29:05):
You mean the thread. Yeah, yeah, well you know the winding.
That's something that you know, I learned to do a
long time ago because you wound that. See it's different now. Yeah,
you put the by the head, stick the shaft in.
You don't pin it anymore. You glue it.

Speaker 5 (29:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah, stage a different deal. Gary. Let me ask you
about what's uh, what's coming up by We've talked about
this a couple of times because obviously we have the
fall golf season on the high school uh end of
things with the with the girls in collegiate golf. But
from a coverage standpoint, is that what we're is that

(29:45):
the season that we're in until we wrap.

Speaker 6 (29:48):
Yeah, you know, basically high school girls golf and college
golf mostly. Now, I know the Bad Women had their
invitation or in the middle of their invitational, and I'm
going tomorrow to Aaron Hills. They've got a U Women's
Open preview. We're going to get a first look at
the course, which I'm looking at the seat here and
it says it's going to play at sixty eight thirty
five thirty five yards for the women next year, So

(30:12):
we'll get a look at the you know, the setup
for the US Women's Open. I'll be writing about that.
And then next week I'm off to Alabama to play
the Alabama Golf Trails five days. So it's good to
get away.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
You've got such a tough.

Speaker 6 (30:26):
Five days.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
Yeah, he's really got a tough job.

Speaker 4 (30:29):
He does.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
He does. Hey, I do want to ask you this.
We've got one more show next week, but maybe I'll
go deeper into that. But as we wind down in
this golf season, Wisconsin Dot Golf doesn't stop doing what
you guys do. What is what does an off season
look like? What kind of coverage do you do at
the site, and what can we look forward to as
you get to some of that off season.

Speaker 6 (30:52):
Yeah, well, we get busy in the winter putting out
the yearbook for the WSG with the annual Yearbook, and
that takes quite a bit of time to do, and
then you know, it's it's a time for us to
kind of collect our breath and maybe do some enterprise
and feature stuff that we don't get a chance to
do from you know, May through September with all the
tournament golf we cover, so you know, course stuff features

(31:13):
profiles of people, some enterprise stuff so we get to
put on different hats in the in the fall and
winner and do some fun stuff too.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, that's great. Well next week, well on our last one,
we're gonna want to hear about your your trip. All right,
back next monday. Will you be back next monday? Can
we talk again?

Speaker 6 (31:33):
No, yeah, we can talk, but I'm actually leaving the
day after that.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Okay, yeah, okay, Well we'll be busy with you next monday. Yeah, Gary,
thank you, always appreciate it. Thanks Thank Gary Tomato, president
of the National Golf Writers Association of America and with
Wisconsin dot Golf and if you haven't gone to the site,
go to the site. It's fantastic coverage of all things golf,
but all things golf here and in Wisconsin. You won't

(31:58):
find a better place for that. Bobby Stricker is in
the house. She'll join us in a bit. We're going
to hear from Travis Becker, the director of instruction. When
we come back. It's stalking golf at TPC Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1 (35:15):
Well, you were talking.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Off from TPC Wisconsin, Mike Keller and Travis Beckery. He's
the director of instruction here at TPC Wisconsin in Madison.
Before we get into a little bit of a lesson,
te let's talk about accomplishment, because your junior team has
just come off some very good successes, which also leads
to another opportunity rolling forward, give us an update.

Speaker 5 (35:37):
Yes, we came off the Section championship that was played
at Pleasant View, a couple weeks ago where one hundred
and sixty eight kids from around the state participated in this.
It was about twenty five teams, so roughly eight teams
played on each nine holes. Pleasant View has twenty seven holes.
The winners from each nine then got to go play
had to had to head in the afternoon at University

(35:59):
Ridge to determine who is the Section championship and TPC
Wisconsin was fortunate enough to come out with the victory.
Our team played very good.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
They shot nine under par.

Speaker 5 (36:08):
Well, that's pretty cool, and the kids are super excited
and I'm super excited. And we get to represent the
state of Wisconsin at the Midwest Regional which will be
held at Lake Geneva this year. We'll be competing against
teams from Indiana, Michigan, and Illinois.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Very cool. Well, it's the culmination of a lot of
work all summer long and kids who are into it
and teachers who are into it as well. So congratulations
and good luck at Lake Geneva.

Speaker 5 (36:33):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Let's talk about lesson. Let's talk about setups, because we
talk about grips all the time, and grips it's the
fundamental core, but so is this setup and that's ball position,
your feet, your shoulders, your hips, all of those things.
So let me start with some different scenarios. Let's talk
about being in a greenside bunker. What is the traditional setup?

(36:54):
What are your lesson keys to setting up at a
green side bunker?

Speaker 3 (36:57):
Sure?

Speaker 5 (36:58):
Even so, to help you prepare before your setup when
you're walking into the bunker, a couple of things you
want to do before you even address the golf ball.
One is evaluate the sand.

Speaker 4 (37:07):
Is it soft? Is it firm?

Speaker 5 (37:09):
Yeah, that's gonna take a place on how you're gonna
set up that club face position.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
All right.

Speaker 5 (37:14):
Then you want to look at your lie. The better
the lie, the more you can open the face. The
worse the lie, the more you're gonna close the face.
After that, you check the lip of the bunker. And
then I like to look at the length of the shot.

Speaker 3 (37:25):
So all of those.

Speaker 5 (37:27):
When I have a good idea, let's just say it's
a good lie and it's somewhat soft sand. When I
go in for my setup, I'm gonna open the club face.
Make sure that the blade the face is still pointing
at the flag. You can take your body and slightly
open it.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
Okay, you're gonna let.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
Me let me interrupt there, because on the normal shots,
we're gonna be square. You want your your feet and
your hips and your shoulder square to your target line.
But when you talk about bunker and opening the club
face in order to make it look at the flag,
you've got to open your feet and your hips and
your shoulder to.

Speaker 5 (37:57):
That correct So the good rule of thumb. The more
you open your face, the more you want to open
your body. Secondly, is the ball position. You want to
make sure that the ball is slightly forward of center,
So we want to strike the sand first. The sand
is what moves the golf ball. Another key component to
setting up in the bunkers. Get a little wider stance
and make sure you dig your feet in. Usually I

(38:19):
want to dig my feet in about the same depth
as the sand that I want to take during the shot.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
Okay, all right, so then let me ask This might
not be part of this, but I'm going to ask
it anyway. Once you open up your stance to that target,
the more open club face, the more open your stance.
Are you swinging on your body line? Are you swinging
to your stance so you're swinging square to the stands
or are you still swinging at the target?

Speaker 4 (38:44):
Great question.

Speaker 5 (38:44):
You're swinging down your body line, okay, so the club
face will deflect the sand towards the flag. But when
you swing your body line, you're changing a couple other
things in the swing, like your attack angle. So the
more left I swing, if I'm a right handed player,
that's going to create a little steeper attack, which in
the bunker is going to help me hit that ball
a little higher, a little softer, and a little more
spin on it.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
All right, setting up to different pitch or chip shots
in and around the green. So now there's a really
great short area here at TPC Wisconsin, and you'll see
I've seen you out there with students, adults and kids,
and you have different setups using the bounce on wedges.
How do you how do you change the setup for

(39:26):
a different type of shot near a green, especially in
close mown areas that you have a lot of out here.

Speaker 5 (39:32):
Sure, so again you're looking at the lie. I usually
start every short game shot with a look at taking
a good look at that lie because that's going to
play a key part to how I'm going to prepare
that club presentation. So if it is a little tighter
lie and I want to take some of the bounce
off of the club. I may feel like it's getting
a little closed, the ball's getting a little bit further

(39:53):
back in the stance, the handle, you're pushing a little
bit more forward towards your lead hip and then hand pruss.
You're going to squeeze the club a little tighter with
your lead hand to use the leading edge of that
club and just knowing that type of setup is going
to make that ball come out low with a little
bit more run on it.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
So we'll see people do that. And I think there
are two big fears that players have when they get
in that position, is to blade it or to chunk it.
And when you do press your hands forward, you do
bring in the leading edge. How do you coach that
you do?

Speaker 5 (40:24):
So a great question again, but leading edge again, it's
going to dig a little bit more and it's going
to run. So get your weight set up a little
bit more on that left foot and you're really making
sure that you hit the ball first. Just going opposite
of that, going to the softer pitch shot or a
shot where I can use the bounce. Remember, bounce is
usually your friend. And it acts as forgiveness. So to

(40:46):
set up for just a normal pitch shot, I want
to get that ball maybe a little more middle of
my stance. I want to get the shaft more vertical,
straight up and down. Maybe a little more pressure in
my right hand, a little more pressure still in my
left foot, but that'll encourage you to use that trailing
edge and use the bounce. It'll come out a little
bit higher and a little bit softer.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Two other setup conversations to have quickly. One is putting
setup and what those checkpoints are when you're on the green.
To set up to make a putt.

Speaker 5 (41:13):
Yeah, I always start with the eye line, making sure
that my eyes are right on top of the golf
ball or slightly inside. Ball position is usually going to
be two inches off your front foot, so slightly forward
of center to promote an upward attack on that golf
ball stance with typically around twelve inches. And then the
grip is huge two, where you want to get the

(41:33):
putter grip more in the palm of the hands and
out of the fingers, and trying to get your lead
arm on the same plane as the shaft so it'll
feel like you're lifting the heel off the ground slightly.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yeah, and it is a lot of people have gone
to different grips, claw, things of that, but the setup
still remains the same. Basic core of making putts is
to set up the same But that right hand move,
whether you're going cross handed, right hand claw, those are
still based on a proper setup.

Speaker 5 (42:03):
Correct you Still again, as long as the grip is
in the palms, that's the big thing. In our hands
are in balance with the blade. That's if you want
to go left hand low or you want to go claw,
all of that's fine. As long as the hand hands
are in balance.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
With that club face last one. Then the setups that
you're looking for for your t shot driver, long club
in your hand. That again the core principles of setting
up prior to the shot.

Speaker 5 (42:28):
Yeah, with the driver, this will be your widest stance.
The wider the stance, the shallower attack angle you're going
to have. So if you tend to pop the driver up,
try getting the stance a little bit wider. You want
to position that ball off of your front foot heel
or your your lead armpit. That's a good starting point.
The other thing that's going to change a little bit
with the driver is you're going to have a little
bit more tilt to the right are away from your fairway.

(42:51):
All of that's to help you launch that ball.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
All good stuff.

Speaker 9 (42:55):
You know.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Getting better at these things takes little advice and a
little coaching, which is what you can do out here
at TPC Wisconsin. You don't have to be a member.
Just contact you through the website.

Speaker 5 (43:08):
Yes, TPC Wisconsin dot com is the easiest way to
get ahold of us. Or you can call six oh
eight two four nine, one thousand perfect.

Speaker 7 (43:15):
We will come back. More talking golf coming up after this.
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Speaker 1 (46:16):
Isn't that right?

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Speaker 3 (46:26):
And we're back here at TPC Wisconsin on a Monday
night along with Mike Keller, along with Dave McCann, Dennis Tizzianti.
I'm Paul Brown and joining us is Bobby Stricker. Bobby, welcome.
I saw an article recently about you and your dad,
and your dad said you're like a sponge. You're learning

(46:46):
about the game and a little bit about the idiosyncrasies
of golf. What are you learning about the idiosyncrasies of golf?

Speaker 18 (46:55):
Is that the same interview that he told the whole
entire world that I don't clean my room too.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Did you see that one I had that I had
that down?

Speaker 2 (47:04):
Sorry as yeah, but that.

Speaker 19 (47:06):
That one came out after this one.

Speaker 20 (47:08):
So he was really nice to me, and then he
was like, is it true, you know, Mike, Okay, maybe
wouldn't be the first.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
Room. Yeah.

Speaker 19 (47:24):
I don't really listen to that. No, I don't listen
to him.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
What are some of the mediosyncrasy?

Speaker 19 (47:30):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (47:31):
I I am.

Speaker 18 (47:33):
I am a sponge. I I've been that way like
my whole sporting life. I just I pick things up
really quickly, which is a very cool thing when you're
learning something new and you want to like quickly like
get it.

Speaker 19 (47:50):
I mean, my grandpa tells me the same thing.

Speaker 18 (47:52):
I work with him too every once in a while,
and it's yes, I can, I can change bad habits quickly.
But you know, recently, I've also realized that it's I
can work out of really good things and develop bad
habits really quickly. So yeah, I I guess I don't

(48:17):
really know how to answer the question. I it's just
it's there's so much to learn in the game, and
I don't know if you ever really learn everything, Grandpa,
I don't really know if you really ever learned anything.

Speaker 19 (48:28):
I think that's why we all love it so much.

Speaker 4 (48:30):
Yeah, because you know it goes on forever.

Speaker 18 (48:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (48:34):
I can remember talking to Sam Snead and he told
me that in a round of golf, he hits the
most seven shots that he thinks are perfect. Oh.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
Sure, yeah, Sam Sneid, just striving for one.

Speaker 6 (48:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
So let me ask you about tournament prep when you
don't have tournaments in between. I'd like to ask you
about that, Dennis, because you're gonna go about what seven
weeks between six weeks between Q school one?

Speaker 5 (49:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (49:06):
About that? Yeah, and no tournaments in between, because there
are no tournaments for you to play in. So how
do you challenge yourself to be tournament ready if you
don't have anything in between?

Speaker 3 (49:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 18 (49:16):
Really good question. Uh, it's staying sharp. I've been at
the range a lot these first couple of weeks. I
will probably and then I played nine holes today for
the first I haven't played holes in probably a week
and a half, so I wanted to work on some things.
And I feel like that's also very important when you

(49:38):
have a big chunk. It's like I had some key
parts of my golf swing that I just wanted to
kind of hone, you know, change and just work on
a little bit. But today I went out on the
golf course and I have to get in that mode again.
Sure it's yeah, it's staying competitive, getting other plays like
I'll play coming up here with We got a lot

(49:59):
of of young like PGA tour guys that are trying
to make it on the tour, their Q schools coming up,
so I know a lot of them are kinda come,
you know, in the next couple of weeks and hang
around here.

Speaker 19 (50:11):
So and playing with boys, it's also completely different.

Speaker 18 (50:16):
And I mean you're trying to impress them one into
you're trying to hang and and they're very good players.
So yeah, playing money games, sure, yes, and competitive that
that was what.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
I was going to go to tis. Some players over
the course of the history of golf have stayed sharp
for tournaments by playing for money when they're not playing
in tournaments, a little gambling on the golf course because
you get into uncomfortable modes which can replicate what a
tournament does. I don't know if you have thoughts, Dennis

(50:48):
on what you do with that long gap between the
first Q school and the next to be tournament ready.

Speaker 4 (50:56):
I think that you can't. It's impossible to maintain that
high level of golf for a long period of time.
You have to give it up and then you have
to start over again. Well, then when you start over again,
you go back to the fundamentals that got you to
this point and you become actually a little bit stronger
each and every time, sir. But you got to get

(51:18):
to a point and you can stay two to three
weeks for the most part at that level. After that
kind of goes down, and where you make a mistake
is when you stay out there and you do all
the deals. Then it gets in your head.

Speaker 18 (51:34):
Now we got a little bit of a probally, Yeah,
that's very accurate.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
Well, I've been.

Speaker 18 (51:44):
There, and it's exhausting trying to keep it at that level.
Like you almost not really weird to even say out loud,
but you almost want to like like I feel like
I'm in that kind of lull falling down whatever you
just said. Now you're like kind of in a and
then when you start to get closer to that time
you want to be peaking. Then you want to be

(52:05):
peaking for me in this case, you know, October fifteenth.
So it's like, Okay, I have this time to maybe
not hit at my best and maybe you know whatever,
and then hopefully in the next coming weeks, you know,
you start to that trend starts to.

Speaker 4 (52:21):
Well, metabolism rate changes, sure, it changes every time every day,
and during this time here to be able to go
ahead to do the give up things one cup of
sugar one. So you start developing that type of discipline.

(52:44):
It's the discipline that gets you there, because you know,
I have another way of finding where I want to be.
I've got this friend that I can be with. Yeah,
and as long as I'm there, Yeah, everything's okay.

Speaker 3 (53:04):
Yeah, I think we're almost out. A time went kind
of fast here.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Well, I got caught up in the storytelling.

Speaker 3 (53:14):
Amen, and I'm gonna have.

Speaker 4 (53:15):
To come in and ask me about the friend.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
I was a little worried about asking about the friend.
Who is the friend?

Speaker 4 (53:22):
Someday I'll tell you, Oh, you.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
Know, that's not going to go on the air. What
about all of our listeners.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
Though, because they wouldn't get it, Gobby very quickly?

Speaker 3 (53:36):
What can you do from a conditioning point of view?
You got this time off and that kind of thing,
and what do you do basically just very quickly.

Speaker 18 (53:44):
Yeah, in the gym. I I have been getting back
into the gym a little bit. Also another area that
you just don't want to like because I am working
on a lot of swing things. So you don't want
to be sore and then not be able to, you know,
be able to do the thing that I really actually.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
Need to do.

Speaker 18 (54:02):
So just stay in and shape a out of walking.
But really I'm just enjoying the time.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
At home right now.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
Yeah, there you go, There you go, Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
Yeah, Mom and Grandma making good food exactly.

Speaker 19 (54:14):
Yeah, great dinners and we have a great dinner.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Yeah, we'll come back with our final thoughts in a moment.
This is talking golf at TPC, Wisconsin.

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Speaker 2 (57:30):
All right, final segment with you on talking Golf from
TPC Wisconsin, Dennis. We only have about a minute and
a half left, but I want to further the conversation
about how you keep like how Bobby will keep her
games sharp because she does go about seven weeks between
Q school one, the pre qualifier and the one that
she'll play in Florida in the middle of October. You're

(57:54):
again just to reiterate your kind of thought on how
you stay sharp, tournament sharp when you're not playing tournaments.

Speaker 4 (58:00):
Well, she's got to what she is doing. You gotta
cut back, you gotta let her go. Then you got
to start over. And that's what she's doing now. Football games, Yeah,
you know, going into your sister play, have a life. Yeah,
and then all of a sudden, you get to wake
up one day and they say, wait a minute, we
got to get going.

Speaker 5 (58:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:20):
And the first time it comes uh uh, second time,
uh uh yeah, third time maybe right then you know
you're on your way, but you can't go too early.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Yeah. Well, and I don't know if that's we saw
a little bit of that from Steve over the weekend,
and I would guess that this coming weekend in in
the Dakotas that maybe the game is sharper.

Speaker 4 (58:44):
Well. We had this discussion those first two days, not
making pots and everything else, and you know, I could uh,
I could see that there was just a happenstance that
he went there to play.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:56):
And then the comment was, but we're getting ready for
next week.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Uh huh five under Yeah.

Speaker 4 (59:03):
So you know those little triggers. Sometimes you need somebody
that you can have confidence and to give you that trigger.
So it's not it's not what you say, it's when
you say it.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
Yeah that makes her Yeah, really good stuff. We're gonna
do this one more time. Our final talking golf of
the season is one week from now, and Bobby will
be back with us. We'll get in a little bit
more of what she's got coming up into that Q
School rounds coming up in Florida in the middle of October.
Steve will have played, maybe he'll jump back in and
Gary Demonto will do all of that next week. Appreciate

(59:36):
you guys being here with us. We'll do it again
next Monday night. Talking golf from TPC, Wisconsin in Madison,