The "Chapel Bill" Edition

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Each time for Clipson Sports Talk with Lawton Swan.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Finally, Clipson Sports Talk has come back two drive time.
Hello everybody, and Swan back in the saddle once again.
It is the show The Shakes of South Lane Clipses
Sports Talk for you each and every afternoon as you
make your way around the great state of South Carolina
and beyond, listening to us on incredible radio stations like

(01:04):
Fox Sports Radio fourteen hundred, the villains heard around the
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and brought to you in part by our good friends

(01:25):
over at Matt's Plumbing Matt's Plumbing dot Com two two
six seven, one oh eight. Hit that number eleven. No,
we sent you all right out of the gates on
a Friday. Will Van Derbort, the Clemson Insider, joins us,
Willy V. How are you, buddy.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
I'm good man, I'm good. Just got into Chapel Hill
right when you texted me, So yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Let me ask you, this will a week away from
what we've seen the first four weeks of the season.
Was the bye week a positive experience for you? Or
are you anxious to see this team back on the field.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
I wouldn't say it was a positive experience. I would
say it was more, uh, you know, because there's a
lot going on. I'm sure you've heard some of the
same things I've heard going on. And you know, as
far as like you know Davos, you know, he's he's
he's he's making sure people are awake over there, if

(02:23):
you will, and and so you know, so yeah, I'm
exious to see what transpires. As we do know Sheldon
Lewis transferred last night, tells me that they're probably going
to make some changes because here's a guy who played
a lot in the first four games and so he's
deciding to transfer, which tells me he's not a part
of the changes. And that's kind of what you get

(02:44):
out of that. So I'm interested what from a defensive standpoint. Now,
you figure something's going to be different, right, so I
wonder what's going to be different from an offensive standpoint?
And and then did Davos messages and get across and
and these guys you know, gonna take it to heart
if you will, you know. And so I thought Peter

(03:08):
Woods was interesting. You know, we got him last week. Yeah,
this week, I thought the messaging was interesting with Kate
Klubnick and those guys. So that just put a couple
of his leaders up in front of the media, and
you know, those are the guys he trusts obviously to
you know, relay kind of what the team's feeling, the thinking.

(03:28):
So we'll see man to answer your question, yeah, I'm
kind of anxious to see what Tomor's gonna be. Like.
I think that's the best.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
Way to say it.

Speaker 5 (03:35):
You know.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
I thought that was an important takeaway from the conversation,
and I brought this up a couple of times this
week from what Matt Luke had to say and what
intrigued me about it is and I think Matt Luke
makes a valid point, Like I get it where this
team is one and three, YadA, YadA, YadA, like everybody
understands that. But Matt Luke essentially said that, you know,

(03:57):
winning masks the errors that you make in a game.
It's when you lose that people really go back and
look at every single little thing that you did wrong.
Do you feel that way after kind of going through this,
I mean, because it's really been Will, if we're being fair,
about ten twelve years since you've had to really go

(04:19):
through Clemson football with a fine tooth comb the way
you have in the first four games of the season.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
I mean, I understand what he's saying, and he's correct,
but the difference is what you just said. They're not
winning games. So there's a reason they're not winning games
and they're one and three because there's more mistakes. And
it's not that they didn't make mistakes when they were
winning all those games. They did, but the reason you're

(04:48):
losing all those games is because there's more and generally
the teams and Dabo's right, the game comes down to
three or four plays, you know, especially when you play
the close games now, the games like you know Syracuse, No,
you got punched in the mouth and you just didn't respond.
I'm sorry, that's why you lost that game. And that
game was just they weren't prepared to play, and you

(05:09):
blame that on everybody. But the other games were down
to three or four plays, and you know, and I
know fans don't like to hear that, but it's the truth.
And you know, I'll use the example, you know, for
my Steelers last week. You know, Peyton Wilson chases that
guy down, Jordan Addison down on the eighty one yard
pass right down the sideline late in the game and

(05:31):
he tackles them at the one yard line with about
three to oh one to play in the game. Now,
that play was huge because it took the Vikings another
three plays and needs another minute fifty eight seconds off
the clock in a game where time was everything, and
that play ended up winning the game for the Steelers
because they scored, yes, but they ran out of time

(05:54):
later in the game, and they didn't have enough time
where if he doesn't make that tackle, then there's still
three minutes to go in the game, and there's a
whole other minute of time they have, which will have
been more than enough time to go down to keep
a field goal.

Speaker 6 (06:05):
Right.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
So that's the kind of stuff the coaches are talking
about from the play and you know, it's just one
play here or one play there, and that's what the
coaches mean, especially in these close games. And you know, Clemson,
just when you make mistakes repeatedly over it really magnifies that.
And that's what's happened, and that's why they're one and three.

(06:26):
It's not just that they're making a mistake here or
there and then finding a way to win. You. They're
making a lot of mistakes and they're finding a way
to lose. And that's the difference in the two and
so I know what he's saying, but what he's saying
like also has the caveat Like Coach Luke, they're making
way more though than normal, and that's why we're noticing well.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
And that is something that I brought up as well,
Like it's it's one thing if you have a play here,
a play there.

Speaker 6 (06:52):
But part of the reason I agree totally, like it's.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
A multitude of issues that have kind of led everybody
down this path. The other thing that I think we
could take away, by the way, that's Will van Dervoort
from The Clemson Insider on Twitter at Steeler Will hanging
out with us.

Speaker 6 (07:08):
The other thing that concerns me.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
I don't know if that's the right word Will, but
I do find myself a little bit intrigued by the
fact that Will help kind of continues to be the
defensive end that's run out to talk for that group,
and you haven't heard much from TJ.

Speaker 6 (07:30):
Parker.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
I mean, do you think this is just Parker recognizing
that he hadn't put up the numbers, regardless of who's
blocking you, regardless of the scheme. I mean, great players
make plays, and we just haven't seen that from him.
Do you think this is an effort by Clemson to
kind of keep him out of the media, or do
you think this is maybe some of his choice.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
I think the combination of both. I've been around the
block long enough to know. I mean, players don't talking
to the media. They don't very few like to talk
to us, and so I can see where TJ is.
I mean, TJ probably don't want to talk to us,
and I don't say it necessarily has anything to do
with them playing bad, you know, I think it's just
he just probably doesn't like talking to the media, because

(08:16):
most don't. And but with that saying, he's very good
with the media when he does talk to us, and
so that's you know, I do enjoy when we do
get TJ, because he's pretty open guy. But I think also, yeah,
the coaches probably also don't want him to talk because
they'd rather him focus on football things and worry about that. So,

(08:36):
you know, it's it's you know, it's either it's that.
You know what is it the apple of orange or
whatever you call it, you know, the chicken or the
egg where you're looking for. You know, it can be
one or the other. But I think it's a combination
of both. I don't think there's anything to read into it. TJ.

(08:57):
Parker knows seeing getting it done. Can That's definitely he say.
The coaches know, and they have. They have told him that.
I could tell you that with most certainty. And so
you know, it's time for him to decide, like does
he want to be a high NFL draft pick or
does he want to be a mid round draft pick? Yeah,
I think that's what it's kind of where he That's

(09:20):
how I'm challenging him. If I'm Chris Rump, That's how
I'm challenging him, Like, dude, do you want to be
a high round pick? Do you want to be a
middle round pick?

Speaker 6 (09:26):
It's your choice, Listen.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
I can make the argument will that he's lost more
in his potential in the NFL than he's made in
ni L this year, right like this year for him
financially has been a negative in the bottom line.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah, and I don't know what his total nil compensation
would be. I got an idea, but I won't I don't.
You know, I won't share that. That's nobody's really business
but his. But I could tell you you're absolutely one
of correct because he would be a top ten pick
and no nil rems share. Money that he's making now
is gonna measure to what a top ten pick in

(10:09):
the NFL gets. And and right now, you know, even
last week, he was still being dubbed the top ten pick.
So he's still getting enough praise for scouts because of
his ceiling that he can make some money. But he
needs to start working. You know, he's acting like he's
in his second contract in the NFL and he's playing

(10:30):
on a team that's not gonna play in the super Bowl.
That's what he's acting like. Well, and so like, you know, dude,
you're trying to get your rookie contract and you're trying
to show these guys you could play in the league.
You need to start showing it, like not you don't
show this effort until you're in your thirties, you know,
And that's kind of what it's like. You know, he's
kind of like, ah, man, it's a sixteen game season

(10:52):
or zero to three. I don't know, man, I think
I'm just gonna I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna wrap
this up. You know what I'm saying that he's like,
that's how it's like he's playing right now. He's been
a no show. I mean, look at the stats. It
just this is a guy who's top ten in sacks
last year in the country. He was top ten and
tackles for lost in the country. Last year he led
the country in stripsack fumbles. Where did that go? It's

(11:17):
the same guy? Where to go?

Speaker 2 (11:21):
It's something to watch. Speaking of the same guy, and
where'd that go? K klubnick I put together an article
on our website about the quarterback situation, and I'll pose
the question to you. How many drives this weekend does
kay Clubnick get that are inefficient or ineffective before they

(11:42):
go to Christopher or Vizena? Would you take the If
I set the over under at three, would you take
the over or the under?

Speaker 3 (11:51):
I would take the over. I and I just don't
think you're gonna see Christmasina plan cause I think you
would already have seen him if he was gonna play,
because let's be honest, it's not like he's played great
this last month for the season. At any point, Davo
could have put Zena in and he didn't. So and

(12:12):
let's let's use what we do know, right. So remember
back in twenty twenty one when Wimpson went to Pitt
and Dabo. You know, DJ wasn't playing well and Davo
took him out right and they put a guy in
that wasn't ready, clearly wasn't ready, and and it showed.

(12:37):
And then the next next drive they put who younger
laid back in right. Well, that's my coincidence, you know
what I'm saying. Like, you know, if Davo thought Dizina
was ready, he would already put him in. So that's
telling me Davo's learning from his own mistakes. I'm not
gonna put a guy in who's not ready. I'd rather

(12:57):
go with the guy who's least. This is what I
all I got. He's my best choice. I'm gonna go
with him. So I think right now that's I would
say it's over. And I'll be stunned if I see
Christopher Zine at all?

Speaker 6 (13:11):
Okay, you do know, you do know how that's gonna
play with our listeners? Not great?

Speaker 3 (13:16):
Like I understand, yeah, and I understand it. I mean,
these are conversations I've had with other people, you know
already this week they've asked that same question, you know,
off there just talking. Yeah, and I'm like, you know
when you I mean, come on that. Look how many
times he could have put him in at any point.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
In those first four games, Chris Denzil It would Hunter
Helm's Trent Pearman. I mean, is there anybody else that
plays if Cad plays poorly the first couple of drives?

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Well, if you said, if you said all along, Christopher
Zina is your second choice and it's not closed and
you're not putting him in, well that tells you the
distance between CAD and CV and the distance between CV
and everybody else. So what it tells me just I

(14:08):
don't know. Now, I don't have a magic I don't know.
I'm not like sitting in the meetings and I don't
This is just me will vander Or speculating here. Okay,
it tells me that probably Crimson's gonna have to go
to the portal next year to get a quarterback. That's
what it tells me.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Okay, well, I mean, I'm sure with all the writing
and everything that you're doing, you probably didn't have a
chance to read what I wrote.

Speaker 6 (14:28):
But that's what I said.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
If you don't see Christopher Zina, it's got to be
a portal situation again. Will Van Dervoort, the Clemson Insider
on Twitter at Steeler Will, Okay, So, I mean that's
basically I mean, what I'm hearing, Will, is that after
all of the pomp and circumstance of a reset and

(14:49):
this week and you know, getting back and being a
few plays away, if this group still struggles. What I'm
hearing you say is that Dabo Sweeney, who has threaded
you know, the things the eye through the needle in
his career at Clemson, is just gonna drive this thing
like the Titanic into an Iceberg.

Speaker 6 (15:10):
Just this is this is the direction we're going.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
I I I if that, if that happens, Will, I'm
gonna be honest, I'm gonna be blown away on Monday
when I walk in here to do this show.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
Yeah, I mean, Dabo's not gonna drive this thing into
the Iceberg. But I do think Dabo is very firm
on He's still putting the best players out there. Wow,
And you know, and so especially at the quarterback position,
that's a different light.

Speaker 6 (15:38):
But TJ.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
Parker, if he's not doing up to you could throw
Jaheen Lawson out there. And because of the way Parker's
been playing, yeah, and the way Shaheem is playing, there's
no drop off, right, But obviously there's a clear drop
off at quarterback. And that's that That's why you you
he's sticking because dude, you're watching the same thing I'm saying.

(16:00):
The fans out there are seeing pretty much the same thing.
I'm saying. Kate clubbings after the yips, that's what's going
on here. I think he has the yips. I think
it's a psychological thing. And I don't know, because you know,
you read some of the quotes. I think he was
in the Athletic they had a story of Cade and
they talked about you know, they talked to an AEC
coach and Ation's coach talking about the things he saw

(16:21):
with the TV. He's like, he looks like a first
year quarterback, Like he's not decisive, he's late getting the
ball out, or he's not even throwing it at all.
These are all things I'm seeing with my own naked eye.
I didn't need a scout or another a SEC coach
to tell me that I'm looking at it with my
own eyes. I see it on the game day. I
see it in the old twenty two's when I watch it,
like he's struggling right now, and you're not, you're not,

(16:46):
you know, And I don't know why he's struggling. And
that's what everybody's saying. They don't really understand why he's
struggling because this is the guy last year who let's
let's do let's reverse it, And everybody's like, oh, well,
they didn't play nobody in those games, dude, they ain't
play nobody yet other than LSU. Like, okay, so what's
the difference. He was tearing these teams up last year?

(17:07):
He should like last year's Kate Clubnick would have tore
Syracuse up. How bad you saw Syracuse defense last week?
He saw a Duke did to him? Yeah yeah, yeah,
so think about that, Lawton. Like last years Kate Clubnick
would have tore that Syracuse defense up. Okay, So what happened?

(17:28):
Why is he digressed? What's going on there? I only
think I can explain if the yips, because man, he's
looking at TJ. Moore wide open. I mean, just like
this is I'm using an example in the Syracuse game
where he tucks in. He looks like he's gonna run
an end route, you know, does a little quick turnaround,

(17:48):
goes back outside. Dude, he is so open. If he
catches the ball and stride, he's running for these thirty
or forty yards or maybe a touchdown. Kate's staring at
him and didn't throw the ball to him at all
back the other way. Why something's up? Dude, He's not
trusted himself at all.

Speaker 6 (18:07):
Remember in Tin Cup when he made him look so ridiculous.
Maybe that's it.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Put a black shoe on one foot, you know, Maybe
give him a old school punters face mask with Yeah,
old school punters face masks with just one bar.

Speaker 6 (18:22):
So he goes there, he goes, coach, I look ridiculous. Hey,
just throw the football.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
Just throw the football, you know, get your mind off
of whatever your mind's on. And I don't know what
it is, man, I don't know if the pressure of
him being like people saying he was a number one pick,
and he was prayed with her and the Heisman if
all that coming into the season just really got on
his head. And so and here's the thing, And I
heard this again the other night in preseason practice. I

(18:48):
had people telling me and they told me the other
night the same thing. Different people. They look like the
twenty sixteen, eighteen nineteen teams in practice in the preseason.
Like you're sitting there like this team is gonna roll.
They're gonna go, what the heck happened? I mean, that's

(19:08):
why I don't get like it. So it verified to
me Dabo wasn't just spinning doing a spin machine in
the preseason like Dabo was seeing the same thing. So
we were hearing Dabo tell this, and then I was
hearing insiders telling me this. Okay, people that's been to
practice and seeing practice telling me how good this team
looks and we haven't seen it at all. Why what's

(19:32):
going on? And it's not just Kate. I know everybody
wants to blame Kate because if Kate fixes this problem,
that does help a lot of things. There's no doubt
in my mind's on that. But it's not just Kay
Kate and that needs to be, you know, hashed out here.
It's the entire it's the offensive line. Dude, they're horrible.
They're not doing what they're supposed to do. They're like
miss assignments everywhere or doing the wrong assignments.

Speaker 6 (19:54):
No, I agree, Hey, Will, we gotta hit a quick break.
We'll come back. We'll follow up on that with Will
Vandrbart right after this.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
Back at it on a Friday, Will Van der Will,
you're talking about missed assignments on the offensive line.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
You know you got you got an all American, supposedly
all American right guard four, your starter. He's blocking the
read guy on a red call. What are you doing?
You know? Why is that happening? Is that miscommunication? Is
that case fault? Is that his fault? What's going on there?

Speaker 6 (20:18):
Right?

Speaker 3 (20:18):
You got a tight end running in motion when the
defense already has six people in the block and he's
bringing an extra tackler into the block. What are you doing?
You know, I mean what you know, what are we
doing here? We've got six guys in the box already
and you're bringing a seventh guy in. What are we doing?
You know that on the play call or is that

(20:40):
on the player I think it's the player, because why
in the world would the play caller call for the
guy that go in motion and try to block a
guy that has nothing to do with the play and
bring another guy in when they're in man, right, Those
are things I'm talking about. Those are things that just
make you say, what, why is Sammy Brown trying to
be Superman? Just do your job, dude. You don't have
to play over You're overplaying yourself. You're overextending yourself. You're

(21:03):
you're running yourself out of places like you know, why
is he doing that? You know, there's just too many
guys that are thinking too much. And that's what's going
on these first four weeks. It has.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
It's been a mystery wrapped in in enigma, just trying
to figure out all of the different moving parts. I mean,
at this point, honestly, will I think you would say,
outside of running back with Adam Randall and punter with
Jack Smith, this team.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
Is this as you're worried about?

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah, it's I mean, it's pretty much underperformed across the board.
I guess the good news is we could turn our
attention real quick to North Carolina. Is the fact that
the Tar Heels are not a very good football team.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
They're not. They're going to start Max Johnson I heard
tomorrow for the game. That's interesting because he's not a
very mobile quarterback. So if you're Pumpston Tom Allen, what
should you do? He should bring the blitz every play, right,
I mean, just breached. And you know this is not

(22:10):
don t team that They're not good on offense at all.
They've been outscored eighty two to twenty three. And they
are two games against powerful opponents, you know, including what
forty eight to fourteen beat down by TCU in Chapel Hill.
And so they went to Central Florida and Frost's team
beat them thirty four to nine, held them to nine points.

(22:33):
They only beat Charlotte twenty to three. Their best gome
work against Richmond, you know, which is an SCS team.
So they just haven't played well all year. And you
got an opportunity. If you're Clemson, if you're as good
as you say you are, okay, or at least as

(22:54):
good as we all thought you were, you know, you
go up there and take care of business tomorrow. But
I'll be honest with you, I don't trust them to
do that. Because I thought they should have take care
of business against Syracuse, because I didn't think Syracuse, even
though Syracuse was better with their starting quarterback offensively, but
Syracuse showed me against Duke they're exactly who I thought

(23:14):
they were on defense right, and they Clinton couldn't get
the ball and end zone against them, had a lot
of yards but didn't get the ball and end zone.
And then you know, we saw what we saw against Troy,
we saw we saw against Georgia Tech well, you know,
and we saw we saw against LSU. One thing they
definitely need to do tomorrow being that North Carolina's also

(23:35):
a team that gets off the slow start. They need
to go out there and not be down thirteen to
nothing before they decide to wake up and play football.

Speaker 6 (23:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
No, look anything positive for this team. I mean I
would say, whether you win or lose the toss, hope
you get the ball first. I think putting this team
out there on defense has been bad because teams are
just going right down the field and sort of set
the tone. And I know the games are won and
lost like a few plays away. But if we're being honest,

(24:06):
Georgia Tech, that opening drive, they go right down the
field and turned it over on downs. I think that
kind of got lost in the wash of how that
game concluded, and that.

Speaker 6 (24:15):
Just further proves just how.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
Uncompetitive, I'll say it, uncompetitive this team has been in
a lot of respects.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Yeah, that's a great point. When you look at a
game like that, you got an opportunity. Would you say
to me when a coach says I'm putting my defense
out first, she's saying, that's my strongest unit, right, And
he's like, they're gonna set the tone for us for
the day because Clemson won the toss in that George
Tech game and deferred and they allowed him to go

(24:46):
right down the field.

Speaker 6 (24:47):
Yep, you know.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
And it's like, Okay, this was supposed to be the
strongest unit and they were supposed to set the tone
for you and they didn't. Instead, they set the tone
for Georgia Tech, right like you said. And George didn't
up going up thirteen nothing later on in the game.
So like, so, yeah, you're right, I think they need
to do something positive. I think you're right. I've said
the same thing you said. You know what you hope

(25:09):
is North John against the ball in the first or
Clinton wins the toss and takes the ball. I think
Clempson needs to be out there first. I think the
offense needs to go down there and do like they
did against Texas last year, go down to score right away,
right and kind of said that let everybody know you're
here to play. And I think that's what we tell
North Carolina. Oh boy, they're here to play. This isn't
the same Clempston that we've seen on film. You know,

(25:32):
if I'm Bill Belichick and his coaching staff and I'm
looking at this Clinton team, can you imagine what he's
thinking himself, because he sees the talent. Bill Belichick's a
pro coach. He knows Peter Woods talented, he knows PJ.
Parker's talented, he knows Kate Clubs's talented, and these wide
receivers are talented. He's probably looking at himself and looking
at his coaches and saying, how on the heck is

(25:53):
this team one and three? You know, with all this talent,
it's mind boggling. And you know that's the crazy thing
about it. And so yeah, I think, get the football,
go down the field. Score You're up seven to nothing.
And by the way, Clemson hasn't scored on the opening

(26:14):
drive suits that Texas game. If I'm not mistaken. Yeah,
And if you go back and look at last year
and Clemson scored on the first drive, Look how good
they were when they didn't score on the first drive,
Look how bad they were. I think they lost every
game when they didn't score in the first drive. And
what have we seen so far this year when they
haven't scored on the first drive?

Speaker 6 (26:31):
Not great? Not great.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Will Van der Vort on Twitter at Steeler, Will Rights
for the Clempson for the Clemson Insider, Will Buddy always
appreciate you, my.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Man Lowton, Thanks, man, appreciate you having me.

Speaker 6 (26:45):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
That's Will van Dervort hanging out with us here on
a Friday afternoon eight O three four five zero zero
eighty six text line phone line. Again, don't forget about
our friends in Alumni Hall on the corner of campus
on College Avenue in downtown Clemson.

Speaker 6 (26:59):
That's Alumni Hall for all.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
You're officially licensed Clemson merchandise, hats, T shirts, tail gate
gear and moore those sweet Nike drive fit polos that
I love so much. Check them out online at Alumni
Hall dot com or get to their site through our site,
and then when you make your purchase online, as long
as you go through our site, anytime you go back,
we'll get credit for that. Again, it's Alumni Hall where

(27:21):
Tiger fans shop. All right, We appreciate will Vanderbort giving
us some extra toime. We'll be right back with more
Clemson Sports Talk as we roll along on a Friday afternoon.
Clemson Sports Talk, lo and swan with you again on
a Friday afternoon, A three four five zeros your eighty six.
Still trying to rest the vocal cords a little bit here,

(27:44):
and I really hope this weekend helps. It's kind of
been weird. Like I say, like I told you, I
don't feel sick. I just I can tell that the
vocal cords have a little something going on. I've been
doing the regimen. Qualk says, I've been doing the regimen anyway,
speaking to William Qualkinbush, we talked with him on Monday.

(28:05):
We'll dive into some of that conversation right here on
a Friday afternoon.

Speaker 4 (28:09):
I'm doing great. Uh A night, Well, I say, I'm
wrestful open date. Actually, my wife busted me because she said,
you're you're like miserable. I was like, yeah, I'm watching
a Ryder Cup. But every one of these other football
teams was like they're having fun, and I watched Cleon
so uh that's my That's how I open they went
is watching everybody else have fun except America and and that.

(28:31):
You know, I thought I didn't think it was gonna
be like that. I thought it was gonna be a
little better. Uh, but uh, I think I overestimated my
ability to relax. How are you?

Speaker 6 (28:40):
I'm good man.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
So look, I'm excited the clemsones back on the grid iron,
regardless of how it's been, because I do think we
saw so much good football this weekend. Like it it
It just kind of gave me a glimmer of hope, right,
kind of like when you buy a lottery ticket, there's
there's the chance that you might win. What do you think,
I mean, could this thing just snap back into place, qualk,

(29:03):
or is there just so much I guess kind of
out of place that it's gonna take a while before
we see the Clemson team that people prepare us for
from a national perspective.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
Yeah, that's a great question. I do think, you know,
to your point about hope, one thing that I was
confronted with this weekend is the power of hope. Like
my baseball team is Cincinnati Reds. We don't made the
playoffs in a full season in twelve years, and we're
going on the road to the Milwaukee Brewers, the team
that we haven't won a series against in three years.
We've lost thirteenth straight series, six straight there. But a
lot of time we don't win any games against the Brewers,

(29:36):
and we end up winning the first two. We lost
the closer there, but so to the Mets. And so
you know, I'm clinging to hope, just a little bit
of hope that things are gonna turn out right, even
if logically it doesn't seem like you're in a good place.
Hope drives you to the TV or to the game.
For sporting events, the United States and the Ryder Cup,
same thing on Sunday. There's no reason world to think logically,

(29:57):
the United States is gonna have a positive experience or
any of the fans in the United States gont have
positive experience. And yet it took until like the very end,
what was it like formatches left before the Europeans actually clinched,
and when it was all sudden done to the United
States was one point away or one and a half
points away from from the Ryder Cup. It would have
been a historic comeback. And it's hope that drives us.

(30:19):
And so you know, it doesn't have to logically work
for you to sort of activate that sense in you
that you just are gonna be hopeful. And I gotta
be honest, I saw nothing this weekend that makes me
think logically that Clenson is gonna have a great season.
Not a thing. I watched a lot of offenses have
fun moving the ball. Watch a lot of run games

(30:40):
that look like they're moving it. I watched a lot
of bad teams that make offense look fun. I watched
a lot of sidelines have really good body language, a
lot of good adjustments from coaching staffs, et cetera, et cetera.
Watch a lot of players making plays, quarterbacks giving their
receivers a chance, receivers paying the quarterback off. Watched a
lot of offensive lines that were playing really well, and
I've I feel like we're not saying any of that.

(31:01):
So there's that. But you know, on the other hand,
I saw a lot of parody. And because I saw
a lot of parody, I was able to sort of
convince myself that Clinton is just like a month away.
They're just a good month away for putting themselves right
back into these conversations. I mean, think about this. If
you have a good month of October, you're sitting at
four and three, and you've got some tough games, but

(31:24):
it will likely may it you played at least reasonably well.
And so yeah, I would I would say there's a
chance that comes back around because of what I said
this week that I've rediscovered the power of hope as
a sports fan, and in fact, the necessity of hope.
So there's for stone drive you insane.

Speaker 6 (31:40):
Well, I will say this.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
I mean, I think if you taught rosters, this team
ought to be not just competitive against everybody, they should
beat the majority of the teams that they still have
to play. The question is can they turn that on?
And what makes me really concern that maybe they can't.
Qualt is what we saw do do to Syracuse and
the fact that wake for should have beaten Georgia Tech.

(32:04):
To me that just and I tweeted this out. I
don't remember my exact verbage on it, but that furthered
my concern about the fact that the Clypson just hasn't played hard,
Like they haven't given effort. And that's probably the biggest
concern that I still have, is what is it gonna
take for these guys? Like I know the statement was
made by I think it was Peter Woods he said

(32:26):
something or Khalil Barnes, one of the two said, Hey, look,
if you weren't playing for all you had, when you
know we had something to fight for, then what do
you Why wouldn't you fight now or whatever? And I'm
kind of like, why would you? Like I kind of
see it the opposite way of the way he kind
of put it out there. I mean, what do you
think about that? Like, can this group harness the the

(32:49):
intestinal fortitude that it takes to turn that momentum given
the fact that they've already got three losses.

Speaker 4 (32:55):
Yeah, it's a good question because you know, let's have
a conversation with somebody that's not a he's not a
sports fan, but he is. He's a trainer and so
he does a lot of like he deals a lot
with mental toughness and physical toughness in people. And the
one thing that he pointed out is one of the
things that's happened is you know, the as he says,
the game has gotten a little softer. Like he said,

(33:16):
he used to watch football, but he doesn't watch as
much anymore because it makes it mad because the game
has gotten softer. And as the game has gotten softer,
is created more entitlement. It's created more of a sense
of like whining. And I guess it all goes back
to the entitlement point. But he said, you know, a
lot of the mental and physical toughness is it's not
there if you're sitting down watching a football game. And

(33:39):
you know, I did start to think about it. When
when things are going poorly, Okay, when things are goot
poorly in your life, the thing that you default to
is your most deeply ingrained habit. Like when you're having
a bad day, the thing that you default to is
your most deeply ingrained habit. That's how addictions get started
in a lot of ways. So that's what exacerbates addiction,
is that when you have a bad when you have

(34:00):
a bad experience, when you when you're in need of
something emotionally, that you just default to your most deeply
ill belief or your most deeply held conviction, or your
most deeply held value or your most deeply held habit.
And right now in college football, you have the transfer portal,
you have nil, you have all these other things. What
are the deeply held values that are like fostered over

(34:23):
a period of years that are just that that you
opt into Because like when you and I understand that
a lot of these players are three and four years
you know, they're three and four years old, you know
in the program, But like when everybody around you is saying,
you know, just get to the end of the year
and then make your choice. When you do a one
year things, it's not a four year process anymore. It's
a one year process, and so you don't have these

(34:46):
deeply held beliefs and values that you can sort of
look back on. I think we're going to be seeing
more two and ten, three, nine, four and eight out
of nowhere because you have individual groups of people that
are thinking about where they're going next.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
With a quick BREAKY come back with more here on
a Friday afternoon final segment of our number one to
show the shakes of south Land Clemson Sports Talk. Going
back to our conversation with Will Van Dervoort for a
minute kind of shocking right to think about his comments
that he doesn't think that Clemson will go to Christopher

(35:25):
Vezena in this game, regardless, regardless. And look, if that's
the case, if club Nick's not a dude, so to speak,
And that was when you use that phrase, he said,
if club Nick ain't a dude, we ain't winning. Dude's

(35:48):
got to be dudes. This is big boy football. Remember
those quotes. Well, if club Nick's not a dude, Okay,
let's talk about this for a second, because I think
there's something to this. If Klubnick is not a dude,
with all the pieces that you have, Okay, this is

(36:11):
what's really scary about the Christopher Vizena situation. If he
doesn't play tomorrow, if k Clubnick struggles. I think that
a backup quarterback surrounded by a talented group doesn't need

(36:33):
to be as good as a starting quarterback to still
deliver victories. Right, you just have to come in and
take over for a quarterback that t have a rough
start to a game. And you weren't the number eight

(36:54):
overall recruit in your class because you weren't good enough,
in my opinion, at least.

Speaker 6 (36:59):
To be a a backup of substance. I'm not asking
you to be the starter.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
I'm not asking you to assume that role, but can
you come in and give us a scoring drive? Can
you give us a spark? I think listen, I'm gonna
have to say that with what will said, I disagree.

Speaker 6 (37:27):
I disagree.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
I think if kde Klubnik struggles early two series three,
at the most, the problem with three series is this,
if you go three series in before you switch to
your quarterback. The problem that I have with it is
the fact that it could be a situation where it

(37:51):
gets a little late in the first half, Like I'd
really prefer to be able to run my starter out
there struggle Bus two series. Hey, you're on the bench
for series three, and we're gonna see We're just gonna
see if Christopher Vezina can put the key in the ignition.

(38:14):
It's kind of like driving an old stick shift and
some of you guys don't even know anything about that.
You're too young. I don't even know if you can
get a car anymore with a stick But we're just
gonna put him in. We're gonna see if he can
get this thing, you know, started, without choking it down.
Because Kate in fairness, you've mostly just choked us down.

(38:37):
There was a hill in my hometown called Fullard Park Hill,
and Fullard Park Hill. When you're learning to drive and
you have a stick it feels like you're going up
a wall vertically. And I understand that it's not that tall,
like it's not that steep, but it felt that steep
when you were fifteen years old driving a nineteen nine

(39:00):
any Ford Ranger and you were sitting on that hill
in traffic and you couldn't afford to have that vehicle
roll back at all. Well, Christopher, if Cad continues to
struggle to get up Fuller Park Hill, buddy, we're gonna

(39:23):
need you to hop in and give it a whirl.
If you spend the tires a little bit, that's okay.
I mean, for that matter, even if the local police
department pulls you over for spinning your tires, you could go, hey, sir,
I was just just learning to drive this stick shift.

Speaker 5 (39:40):
Here.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
I apologize that I burnt those tires, but I burning
my tires is better than rolling into that car behind me, officer.
And so from there I would say, look, all bets
are off. If Kate Klubnik plays poorly and Christopher Vezina

(40:06):
does not go in the game, all bets are off
for the season because I don't know when, where, why,
how Clemson would ever go to a backup unless Kai
Klubnik just physically was knocked out of a game, right, well,
we got to go to a backup because kid's injured.

(40:27):
If the drop off between your starting quarterback and your
backup who's been in the system for three years is
the starter's got to be injured. But when you're asked
about the backup you say you trust him and you
don't play him. That sounds like you don't trust him.
And I really, at this point with kay Klubnick, do

(40:50):
not care how much you know, how much, how many,
how many deposits he's made into the emotional bank account
of Clipson Tiger fans with positive plays. If he struggles
early this weekend against North Carolina, there is no reason, none,

(41:15):
that you don't go to Christopher Versina. Let me ask you,
if you don't go to Christopher of a Zena, what's
the worst thing that can happen?

Speaker 6 (41:26):
If k Clubnick struggling, you lose.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
If you go to Christopher of a Zena and you
give him a chance. What's the worst thing that can happen,
You lose. So there's to me no reason not to
at least put Zena out there, because you've really only
evaluated Christopher Zina based off of practice. And you know

(41:55):
what I've seen in my career, guys who are practice
players and guys who are game players. Maybe Vaxina is
just a gamer. Maybe you throw him out there and
he starts bawling, but at least you gotta do it
at some point to see I think they have to
give him a shot this weekend. All right, quick break,
Tommy Balden joins us on the flip side.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
It's time for clips and sports talk with Lawton Swan.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
It is our number two. That's drivetime right here on
the show that shakes the Southland, Clemson Sports Salt Lot
and Swan hanging out with you.

Speaker 6 (43:08):
Of course.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Our number two brought to in part by our good
friends over at Mets Plumbing mets Plumbing dot com. Two
two six seven one oh wait give him a call
today two two six seven to one A wait, that's
Mets Plumbing online at mets plumbing dot com.

Speaker 6 (43:24):
All right.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Typically here in our number two on a Friday, we
have Tommy Bowden on the show, but haven't been able
to catch up with coach Bowden today. I did exchange
text with him and was hopeful we'd be able to
get him on in this hour. If we can, we'll

(43:46):
go to him. If not, Hey, that's okay too. We'll
we'll press through here on a Friday afternoon. Again, college
football galore, but but one of the stories that came
out over the past couple of days and I haven't
had a chance to get to it. So with Coach

(44:08):
Bowden being out today for a little while, at least
we can touch on this. The Big Ten discussing a
two billion dollar private capital deal. According to sources, that
deal would infuse two billion dollars into the league and
its schools. Sources told ESPN yesterday. The discussions include a

(44:37):
ten year extension of the league's grant of rights through
twenty forty six, which would ensure long term, long term
stability for the Big Ten. According to sources, the private
capital deal and granted rights extension have been discussed for
months and presented in multiple forms. EEL and the grant

(45:00):
of rights extension would also be a distinct blow to
the outside entities attempting to form super leagues around.

Speaker 6 (45:08):
College football or college sports.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
Dear, I say so, this will be an interesting development
to follow out of the Big Ten again, big money
potentially coming into the world of college football. But we'll
turn into the guest line. Tommy Bowden joins us here
as he always does on a Friday afternoon. Glad we
could get connected, coach, welcome in.

Speaker 6 (45:29):
How are you doing good?

Speaker 5 (45:31):
Down? And now? I was in Mobile last week, I'm
in Atlanta this week. More practice in football by the grandsons.

Speaker 6 (45:39):
Now what do the what do the grandkids call you?

Speaker 3 (45:41):
Are you?

Speaker 6 (45:41):
Are you a Paul Paul? Are you a pap Packe.

Speaker 5 (45:45):
I hate to say this because this is not this
is not the image I want to reflect. Uh oh,
but they call me grumps. Oh g r u MPs grump.
Why my daughter in law did that? She was a
Twennessey graduate. I know why we beat them in that
Bowl game. Never forgiven us.

Speaker 6 (46:03):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
I like it all right, tell me about with us
here on the program today, Coach. I was just talking
about there was a report I'll get your thoughts on it.
There was a report from ESPN that a private equity
group and the further we get into you know, this
nil revenue share era. I'm sure we're going to hear
more about it, but a private capital deal that could

(46:26):
potentially infuse two billion dollars into the Big ten. I
mean when you were coming up and when I was
growing up watching it, I mean, college football just felt
a little bigger than high school football, you know what
I mean, And now like it has really changed. When
you're start to have these types of conversations a guy
who I don't know if I want to label you
a college football purist, but I mean somebody that kind

(46:49):
of grew up around it the way you did.

Speaker 6 (46:51):
What do you make of all of this?

Speaker 5 (46:55):
You know, football is just going back even a little
bit before my time, football a sport played by football
players as a that was a part of the college experience,
what the college experience it was. But now it has
become the college experience. And uh, it's just totally the
emphasis going so much on money, you know, which you

(47:18):
got to take into consideration a little bit. But we're
just becoming instead of being more of a microcosm of
high school, we're becoming more like the NFL. And it's
just slowly grown in that direction, but deals like this,
any kind of had an assistant coach come office. The
first thing he had said, you know, coach, it's it's
not the money. It was always the money. And two

(47:41):
billion dollars there's a lot of money, and it gives
them some financial security.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Dabo Swingey this week, coach shifting to the Clemson Tigers
with you called Clemson struggles quote a coaching failure, and
he said, look, I'm pointing of thumb at me, not
a finger at everybody else. And he talked about how
you know those guys needed to improve. I mean, when
when you have watched this team, do you feel like
most of this does fall on the coaches?

Speaker 5 (48:08):
I don't. I don't. I don't have access to the
film like he does. You know, and he walks through
and practice and see what's each position coach is coaching
that he watches the tape. He says, hey, is that
happening on tape? I don't have access to that. Obviously
he does, and he's under the UH impression right now
there's more of a staff now. I think it is.

(48:29):
Anytime you take a team as talent as them and
you lose to a UH. This particular case Georgia Tech
and Syracuse who you have better players in then you
have it has to go to coaching, which could be
involved on and how you you know, how you motivate
them technique that you're teaching or plays it or defenses
that you're calling. So uh but yes, that's uh. I

(48:50):
hate to be in that staff meeting because when he
wasn't on the radio, wasn't on TV. I promise you
that uh, Wrath rolled downhill pretty quick and it wasn't
about all and it wasn't about all in the states.
He was making which he's hired those guys for a
reason they do. And I after I've watched it, there
is an area there because they're more talented, they're losing

(49:13):
to less talented teams. And you know, it happened to
me and that's why I'm not there.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
Tommy Boalden with us here on the program talking about
this Clemson Tiger football team as they get ready to
head up North Carolina to take on Bill Belichick and
the North Carolina tar Heels, and you know.

Speaker 6 (49:29):
Talking about college and pro football.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
That's the other thing too that it really felt distinct
and different and still to some degree does the offenses
a little bit in the NFL and college, but I
do feel like there has been a little bit more
of a kind of e merging between the two styles.
It's been rough for Bill Belichick. Obviously, he's I guess,
the most decorated coach. I don't know where you'd kind

(49:52):
of rank him among the greats, but he's got to
be one of, if not the greatest, in terms of success.
But they have really struggled at North Carolina this year.
How difficult do you think that transition might be? And
I know you didn't coach in the NFL, but how
difficult do you think that transition might be for a
guy to go from that NFL game, even though now
the players are making some money, but still it's it's

(50:13):
it's quite a different game in terms of recruiting and
management of the team, et cetera.

Speaker 5 (50:19):
Yeah, and you mentioned management right there of the team.
I think that would be one of the most difficult things.
He could have a lot of input x's and o's wise,
especially in offense in the NFL, but he couldn't. Now
he's got to rely completely on his staff offensively, which
is a little bit different the environments than he's been

(50:41):
in and so I think that would be more one
of the heart of things recruitings you got. There's so
much involved the recruiting aspects you could do, but the
just the the you have to lean so heavily on
your assistance that do the coaching that have college experience
because he had none. The only thing is really and

(51:02):
that was when I played Nick Saban, I said, yes,
the biggest thing, if you remember my press conference before
the game, was that Nick had spent so much time
in the pros where you don't recruit. All you do
is watch film twenty four to seven, and if you're
have any tendencies, you better self say out. You said,
they're going to know all your tendencies. And to me,
with Bilichick having an open date, that would be the

(51:22):
thing in his favor would be the be able to
put a hat on exactly what Garrett Riley's doing. And
then also Tom Allen on defense.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
You know the other thing too that I think really
makes a difference, and kind of watching some of clemson struggles,
I've thought about this quite a bit. Like in the NFL,
if you're struggling at a position, say your cornerbacks are
having a tough year, you can go trade for somebody, right,
like you can in season go fix an issue or

(51:53):
a player that gets injured. The collegiate model doesn't present
that option. And yet we're still kind of dealing with,
you know, players who are maybe being paid people think
they're underperforming, and these coaches can't really do anything. It's
kind of wild, right, They can't do anything to go
out and improve the team in the middle of the season.

Speaker 6 (52:12):
They just have to ride this thing out.

Speaker 5 (52:16):
Oh yeah, if you've got to, he said, Just say,
if you've got a defensive back of corner, a cornerback
that's underperforming, and you do you know, in the second
team there's a lot of separation. You have to find
ways to give him help over top of the safety.
And of course anytime you do that, you have a
few more weaknesses or create more space in the tackle box,
you know, with linebackers and all that getting the safety

(52:36):
out of any kind of run support thing. So not
only does it affect you, like like you're talking about,
you really have to us some of your schemes. You
can't go get another one, You can't go get another
corner and like say, trade for one is not one
t come in next week, so you really so then
you have to start making adjustments defensively or offensively. You know,
if you're running backs aren't productive and they're not performing well,

(52:58):
and you try to all of a sudden lie more
on your wide receivers in passing games, then you really
hurt yourself scheme wise and getting out of sync with
having rely so much on passing games running games. So
it affects you a lot more than just a talent
you put on the field. It affects your scheme defensively
and offensely when you've got underperformers and you don't have
the quality back up behind them.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Tommy Bowden with us here on the program on a
Friday afternoon, as he has been for about twelve years now,
spending time with us talking about the Clipson Tigers.

Speaker 6 (53:26):
It's hard to.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Believe Tom's fun when you're hanging out with his coach,
so we do appreciate it. I want to ask you this.
A lot of people have speculated that if Kate Klubnick
struggles in the first couple of drives at North Carolina,
that Dabo Sweeney and the coaching staff should give Christopher
Vezena the backup quarterback and opportunity. There are other people

(53:49):
that don't think Sweeny'll do it, that they don't think
he'll move away from ki Clubneck regardless because they believe
Vezena can't cut the mustard. Maybe is the terminology you
might say. My question to you would be this, we
really haven't seen enough of a Zena to know for sure.
And you might say, well, they see him at practice.

(54:10):
But if you ever been around, because I think this
exists guys that play better when the lights are on
in the game than they might at practice. And if
you don't ever run him out there, maybe Zina could
do it.

Speaker 5 (54:23):
No, Yeah, you're you're right. You know, there are some
guys that just when the lights come on in the state
and they perform at the level that that and their
focus is a lot stronger than what it is in practice.
That's just in their DNA. It might have been seventeen
years of being in athletics and being allowed allowed to
do that, you know, But there are some guys that

(54:45):
can do that, and quarterback is a position that it
can And like you said, you know, sometimes lawman baseball,
you can take a picture a great pitcher and he's
just not on he doesn't have it, he doesn't have
his stuff, and you got to you got to sit up,
You got to bring another guy. And then all of
a sudden, he goes out next day and he pitches good.
And sometimes quarterbacks are like that, they're better if you
have to sit them down. And I think I brought

(55:05):
up example last week with what my father has to
do with Charlie Ward a little bit and some of
his other guys he's had. Yeah, I got in Casey
Weld and it was second the Heisman, and then another
Winky who won the Heisman. You know sometimes I remember,
I think Winky one time, through a lot of their steps,
you had to sit him down for just a you know,
series or two or half a game. And uh, sometimes
that's and it's not that you don't have confidence in

(55:26):
the guy, but there's the way you have. You have
to articulate that and uh to the quarterback and to
the team so the team doesn't lose confidence. And if
he comes if he sits out and comes back in.
But uh, that that could be done. It all depends
on what kind of conversations they've been having a kid.
But I don't think it shows a lack of confidence.
Him because that's done in the NFL is done and

(55:47):
other sports like baseball, and sure he's been done in college.
So when you sit a guy down and just let
him look from Regathers thoughts and get him refocused.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
And then I would get kind of I guess piggyback
and off of that, you know, this is also a
situation where fans, you know, text my program and say, well,
why didn't we go get this other player?

Speaker 3 (56:09):
Right?

Speaker 2 (56:09):
Like they see these other guys that are performing that
transferred to the other school to a new school, and
and my answer is pretty simple, like those guys weren't
going to come to Clemson because the perception was right,
they would have been behind kay Klebnick. So it's really
a yeah, if you're starting quarterback doesn't perform and you

(56:31):
don't believe in your backup, you're in a pretty bad
spot in this day and age because the good backups
are transferring to places they can play exactly.

Speaker 5 (56:41):
They yeah, the quote you can't tap the depth like
you used to have when my when my father was
there and he had seven fourth year juniors start for
ten years, and anyone fourteen straight top five finishes. Those
that doesn't happen more they're not there.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
And uh then.

Speaker 5 (56:57):
Then also we discussed a little bit last week and
would know better than anybody is your offensive scheme allowing
him to be productive? That's what unless you look at
the tape and which Dabo does and Garrett Riley, you know, yeah,
I can remember Steve Spurr having Danny Wirfel and you're
talking about a quarterback on the Heisman did not make
it in the NFL, but he was a product of

(57:17):
the system. Coach Perry had a system in where you
didn't have to have a really strong arm, but it
was a system. And I think we've as we've discussed
later on your show some point in times, you say
he is our system allowing him to perform at a peak.
And you have to have the film knowledge that Dabbo
and Garrett have and practice looking at practice that we
don't have to make that decision.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
Tommy Balden with us here for a few more minutes
on a Friday afternoon, as we get you home from
work today talking about this Clemson Tiger football team. So, coach,
if it were you, I mean, and I know it's
a kind of risk reward deal, you had to go
to a backup quarterback right up at North Carolina when

(58:02):
Woody Danceler got hurt, and I think what Willie Simmons
went in the game.

Speaker 5 (58:05):
And Willie Simmons came in, had a great game, had
a great game.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
Now that was that was because of an injury. But
I think after that game you said Woodrow probably could
have come back in, but you saw a hot hand
right and you went with it. And I think you
passed four touchdowns, yeah.

Speaker 5 (58:23):
You know, and he came and just he had a
great game. And you know, like I say, sometimes you
don't know until the guy gets out there under the
lights with fans, with that kind of pressure, you just
don't know how to perform. And the hardest decision I
had to make as a coach and player was when
I had to put in Charlie Whitehurst as a true freshman.
All right, rich hirt, true freshman.

Speaker 6 (58:44):
I think you true freshman.

Speaker 5 (58:46):
He's true freshman, true true freshman. And I had to
call Willie him and telling the son, I got to
make a change, killing me now, and Willie ared, he
calls me all the time. We talk all the time.
Anytime he takes a job or does this, or makes
a staff decision. We always talk, so yeah, but Charlie
was never known that had to make that decision and
Willie and guys, I don't know. I was really close

(59:08):
to Willie, and I don't know if Cage's any closer
to Dabbo than I was to Willie. Isn't. But sometimes
you got to do that. Charlie came in and played great,
and that never gave us the neighbor gave us the job.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Well, Dabo Sweeney final thing coach, he actually mentioned when
you hired him. He said that, you know, all of
that kind of was happening around the time you guys
played Texas Tech, which was just a brutal game. And uh,
I think it was Don Munson, Don Munson, Yeah, it
was on the radio show. Don Munson said to Dabo
Sweeney in that moment, he said, man, after that ballgame,

(59:39):
Charlie Whitehurst deserved all of the thirteen years he got
as a backup quarterback in the NFL, because that was
a that was a rough day for him down in Orlando.

Speaker 5 (59:48):
Yeah. I think I called his parents or talked to
his parents after games and I apologize to him. I said, boy,
he just I did, and I was here it. I said, man,
that just wasn't He just took a beating. Now he's
just terrible, terrible performance. And that was one of those dabblers.
David said, there's nobody's fault but mine. We just won't prepare.
But yeah, that was we didn't do anything on offense
or defense. But yeah, he took a he just got

(01:00:10):
beat to a fault. I saw his mom and dad,
so I said, man, I'm sorry, he took a beating.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Well, it also turns out, you know, you give something
like that a little bit of time, and you've realized
that that team had what Wes Welker on it. I
think uh turned out to be a pretty good NFL
wide receiver. What was that Cliff Kingsbury maybe was there?

Speaker 6 (01:00:31):
Quarterback?

Speaker 5 (01:00:32):
I think yeah, I think he was a quarterback. You
and Leech was at his prime, right, Yeah, he was
a little he was a little ahead of the game
and things he was doing offense for defenses, kind of
like when I went to Tulane, we were a little
bit ahead of defenses, and Leach with his offense was
a little bit ahead of defenses, and he just he
was the way ahead of us. And just have a
really poor performance defensively.

Speaker 6 (01:00:52):
Man, Yeah, those were the days.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
Tommy Bowden, Tommy Polden hanging out with us here, grumps, right,
is that what it is?

Speaker 5 (01:01:00):
Grumps? Yeah, Hey, don't tell anybody.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
We always appreciate you, Enjoy the grandkids, enjoy the college
football this weekend.

Speaker 6 (01:01:09):
Tell Ryan and his wife.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
We said hello and Linda, and we always appreciate you
guys being a part of the.

Speaker 6 (01:01:14):
Program they have.

Speaker 5 (01:01:16):
His ed origin would say, go Tigers, a.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Little head order on there. Yeah, I hate to bring
up the fifty five to fifteen loss. That was it,
fifty five to fifteen. Let me check I was there.
I was there fifty five fifteen Clemson Texas Tech. Uh yeah,
oh yeah, fifty five fifteen, December twenty third, two thousand

(01:01:41):
and two.

Speaker 6 (01:01:42):
That was a rough one. That was a rough one.
But they did.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
They had Wes Welker. You didn't know that at the time.
When Wes Welker was doing something, nobody was like, Hey,
I was Wes Welker. Yeah, he's going to be a stud.
He's gonna be one of the great wide receivers for
ten years in the NFL. All right, we'll hit a
quick break here on a Friday afternoon again, keep it
a lot right here on Fox Sports Radio fourteen hundred

(01:02:07):
the Midlands, and of course you can hear the show
The Shakespeare south Land anywhere in the world on the
iHeartRadio application. Stay with us Clemson Sports Talk again. Back
with you on a Friday afternoon. Lawton Swan Clemson at
North Carolina tomorrow noon kickoff up in Chapel Hill. Full

(01:02:29):
coverage of that over on Clemson Sports dot com. So,
as I mentioned earlier, still trying to rest the vocal
cords just a little bit. For those of you joining
us here an hour number two, we'll jump into a
portion of our conversation we have with William Qualkinbush on Monday,
and I asked qualk I said, look, man, I think
with what Dabo Sweeny's done, it would be very rare

(01:02:53):
that he would get fired from his job at Clemson.
I think he pretty much can decide when he wants
to go regardless outcome. Here's Williamqualkin Bush kind of giving
his thoughts on it as well.

Speaker 4 (01:03:06):
Yeah, I mean, this is this is silly. I mean
right now, look, I mean if you have four four
and eighths or three and nins or whatever. You know,
then all bets are off. But one bad no, no, no,
and we're not a bad year. It's not a bad
year yet, it's not a good year. And it's not
gonna be a good year. They went eight in a

(01:03:28):
row and go nine and three. It's not gonna be
a good year. He's wasted a month. You played like
crap for an entire month of the season. It's not
a good year. But didn't had to be a bad year,
devils when he's not getting fired for not a good year. Now,
I do think that in this era, and I think
I've said this to you and I've said this on
my show, I know that there's legitimate donor fatigue. I've

(01:03:50):
felt it in the stadium at times with the reaction
that people had to certain things, both during the game
and then in toimehouse and things like that, where it
just feels like there's donor fatigue where Clinton doesn't have
the donor base that Ohio State and Alabama and Georgia
and State's and Michigan, Texas the state schools have to

(01:04:11):
be able to just raise all the money that they
want and then if somebody can't do it, they just
go to the next person. A lot of these resources
are are i will say tapped out, but a lot
of them are expecting some return on investment here and
they're not getting it. And so I do think there's
less patients now. From that standpoint, I think it's understandable
patients because you not only have you have you have

(01:04:32):
institutional money that is now going and pay players, but
you have you have fans, donors, boosters, corporate sponsors, whatever,
who are also in the vote of paying these people.
And so they want to return on investment both at
their own uh you know, in their own cash register,
but also in terms of what they see and the
value that they get on the field. And when you're

(01:04:53):
not getting it, it leads to discontent. You know. Mike
Gunny was like Oklahoma State through and through and they
fire Sam Pittman Arkansas through and through, had a couple
of good years in there, they fired him. So I
won't say never, but definitely not right now. I mean,
if somebody's putting up twelve to one dablish twenty yards
this year, right now, they're just trying to take your money.

(01:05:13):
That's all that is. They're just trying to take your money.

Speaker 6 (01:05:15):
And they will gladly do that again on Twitter at
Qualt Talk.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
So before we turn to a question about overtime collegiately,
the two former assistant coaches that are active actively coaching
right now are combined eight and one this season with
Brent Bevinnables at Oklahoma and Tony Elliott at Virginia. I
would say that's also not helped out what's going on

(01:05:39):
in Tiger Town. But I'll ask you, what are your
thoughts on those guys in the job that they've done
so far this season?

Speaker 4 (01:05:45):
Well, now I would agree with that, but we have
to be careful with this because when you say that,
the Clenson people, Clenson people are still not thinking about this.
In twenty twenty five. We can't talk about programs anymore, Swanny,
we talk about teams. Tony Elliott and bren Vinables had
had had teams that put him on the hot seat.
Dallas Sweet has not had bad teams, and so yes,

(01:06:06):
I agree with you. This year they've got quarterback right.
The addition of quarterback and offensive coordinator and the tier
and Arbuckle has been great for Brinvitables, and he has
done the work to build the defense that we knew
he would eventually build at Oklahoma. That's not a shocker. Virginia.
Same way, they had two quarterbacks that were back and forth.
Calandria was the one and then the other guy was

(01:06:27):
the high floor guy. I can't remember his name, but
I mean it just never really worked. So now you
portal in a dynamic older quarterback and Shamler Morris that's
won some quarterback jobs but just has been hurt all
his career. Now he's playing great. The defense still is
not very good, and so like, I don't think Virginia
is gonna have some kind of great.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
Great year.

Speaker 4 (01:06:46):
Materiers are pro Oklahoma. Let's see what this looks at
the end. I think Buffo's are very good. Well, I
say this is trying to act like because Virginia has
good quarterback play and they're scoring whatever, that they're just
on an upward trajectory, or Oklahoma would Breadventables is on
an upward trajectory. Oklahoma and Renvnables first three years with
like six wins, ten wins, six wins, So like, if

(01:07:08):
they go ten wins here, it doesn't mean they're gonna
keep winning ten games. I think that paradigm of like
good program back program is gone. We can't think about
it like that. It's a good team, bad team and
every season and the strength of your program is just
what your floor is, which is kind of what we're
about to finding with Clinson, right, is this a program
where the floor is literally like eight and four, seven
and five or is the floor much lower than that?

(01:07:30):
And so I do think that like that's how that
when we talk about program, I think that's a better
way to look at it. But within that, you just
have to hit on so many things year over year
that you have a competitive team and when you have
a comptitive team, you have to take advantage of it.
And so far Brent and Tony have done just that
at Oklahma Virginia.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
You know what, before I go to my final thing,
I do want to say, and I agree with you
on this, like if you have a great quarterback, like
the fans are to go up, why didn't we go
get somebody from the portal to be the quarterback? They
start naming all these and they would like to see
I can't think of a school quall that had a
legit quarterback that went out and brought in another one.
Like if you've got a guy that you believe is legit.

(01:08:10):
You don't go get somebody else and just pay them
to do nothing.

Speaker 6 (01:08:13):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
Another thing too, this is this is one of my
pet peeves. Well, first of all, these are two of
my pet peeves in one. I'll do this separately. Number
one is people are like, well, look at all these portals. Okay,
which Clemson starter in February, January, December, even May? Which
Clemson starter? Would you jeopardize losing by bringing somebody in

(01:08:33):
from the portal who is good enough to start? Not
a deaf guy. That's a different conversation. We're talking about
starter caliber. Would you lose Kate club Nick to bring
in Uh, you know, I don't know Taylor Morris, No,
not in January? You wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
And I would argue where you wouldn't. Yeah, And I
would argue Chandler Morris isn't coming. If that's the case, right,
that's correct, Like Channel Morris is not gonna go. Yeah,
I'll come to Clemson and sit behind Cad. You're not
getting that guy.

Speaker 4 (01:08:57):
Listen, Clemson is Clemson is they are because the very
good players that everybody thought were very good have not
been very good. That's why Clemson is where they are.
Clemson is not where they are because they had a
bunch of holes and didn't fill them or they counted
on freshmen. Were their holes on Clemson's or alster yet?
Could they've used the safety yes, could they've used a
hunning back, yes. Could they maybe use an offensive line

(01:09:20):
or two, yes, But it's not like they had a
million holes, and the holes were the reasons they weren't
bringing in another portal receiver outside of Trisian Smith. There's
no way they weren't bringing in a tight end. They
weren't bringing in a defensive tackle, right, they weren't bringing
in a linebacker or court. They just weren't gonna do
that because those weren't the issues. The issues are the
players you have aren't playing well, the guys that anybody

(01:09:42):
in the nation would have taken.

Speaker 6 (01:09:44):
Again, that's William Qualkinbush with us.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
We'll come back, We'll here were we will hear excuse
me pet peeve number two from quot right after this,
Lawton Swan Clemson's sports so called a Friday again. Don't
for you, don't forget about our friends in alumni hall,
on the court or a campus on college Avenue of
downtown Clemson. It's Alumni Hall for all your officially licensed
Clemson merchandise, hats, t shirts, He'll get Gary Moore, don't

(01:10:07):
forget about those sweet Nike dry Fit polos that I love.
Tell them Swanny Sincha. And if you want to go
to their website, it's simple Alumni haul dot com. Or
when you're on our site at the bottom of a
ton of stories, you will find a link. You click
that link and then we'll get credit when you make
your purchase online. It's Alumni Hall where Tiger fans shop,

(01:10:27):
all right. William Qualkinbush was on the program earlier this
week and he was giving us a couple of his
pet peeves about the belief of you know, when you're
looking at a guy performing well, people thinking you could
just plug that guy in and you're not gonna go
out and get guys if you've got a stud at
the spot anyway, or guy you expect to be a stud.

(01:10:49):
And Clemson expected K Club to be a stud. National
pundits expected K Clubny to be a stud. He hasn't been,
not this year, and so people are like, well, what
if we had Chandler Morris. But it's not that simple either, Qualk.

Speaker 6 (01:11:02):
You gave us.

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
Your pet peeve number one on this situation, drop that
dime on pet peeve number two.

Speaker 4 (01:11:11):
Pet peeve number two is well, this quarterback's good in
that system. So if we just bring him in, we
just get the copy and Pasi stat's in our system.
And I gotta be honest, when I'm looking at Clemson,
I'm looking at what I would consider to be a
year's long systemic problem. So I don't think it's even
cut and dry at Cade by himself is the issue,
and that if you just plug a different player in there,

(01:11:32):
even Shamler Morris said, they're gonna be placed to be made.
I think this is a systemic issue with Clemson dofense
that's gonna dramatically lower the ceiling for whatever quarterback is
in here.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
So well, Qualk, I hope you have a little more
time because we're gonna be up against a break and
I do want to get to another thing.

Speaker 6 (01:11:49):
So I'm just connecting the dots.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
I was decent at that back in the day, you know,
the old connect the dots and color stuff. It sounds
to me like you really feel like the main issue
right here is Garrett Riley in this offense, or Garrett
Riley specifically, I think.

Speaker 4 (01:12:06):
The system itself, see you not. I'm not saying Gary Riley. Okay,
I do think the component pieces all working right, but
I don't want to put it on gar right. I
think it's his responsibility. But like I think the running
back position stinks. I mean, even a ran playing eighty
snams against Syracuse, why is no other running back capable
of running the ball against Syracuse? Whild wide receivers are

(01:12:28):
teamly dropping passes and not very tough. Why is the
offensive line busts and assignments? I mean, it's everybody. It's
everybody across the board. So I don't even think it's
a simple as saying it's Garret Riley's offense. I think
it is a cleansing offense, systemic problem, that it's five
years old, that we are just now a sort of
understanding that you can trade out every component part you

(01:12:49):
can think of, and when it still looks the same,
that you've got an issue with the machine itself. And
so I just think that's the logical read on the situation.
I don't think just firing Garrett, I only bringing somebody
in and not doing a deep, deep, deep self examination
of what else needs to be six. I think you're
just asking for more of the same.

Speaker 6 (01:13:08):
So there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
That's our time with William qualkin Bush again from earlier
in the week A three to four to five OO
zero zero eighty six. That is the text line and
the phone line if you ever want to get in
on the program, and again follow us on all of
our social media accounts. All right, so Major League Baseball
postseason play. We got a couple of minutes here at

(01:13:29):
the back end of the show, so you know what,
want we dive into some of what we've seen over
the past few days. Of course, Tuesday night, or excuse me,
Wednesday night, the Dodgers swept their series with the Reds
eight to four. They won that series two games to none,

(01:13:50):
and then the other three games all went to game three.
So last night was the deciding night, and the Detroit
Tigers on the road at Cleveland came away with a
six' three victory to. Advance you also had The cubs
hold on against The padres three to. One cubby fans

(01:14:13):
were sweating just a little bit in THE Nl Wildcard,
series and then in the Final Al Wildcard. Series The
yankees last night shut out The Red sox for nothing to,
advance so the playoffs are officially. Set things will get

(01:14:34):
going with the top seed in The National, league The
Milwaukee brewers hosting The Chicago, cubs the four. Seed that's
a two toh eight start On saturday ON tbs AND Hbo.
Max then will flop back over to or FLIP i
guess back over to The American league at four oh

(01:14:55):
eight as the fourth Seeded yankees go to top Seeded
toronto take on The Blue. Jays then back in The
National league at six thirty eight On, saturday it'll be
the second Seeded phillies hosting the third Seeded dodgers ON
tbs And TRUE, tv and then at eight thirty eight
over in The American, league the second Seeded mariners and

(01:15:17):
the sixth Seeded. Tigers so those are your matchups. Again
in The National league it's the number one Seeded brewers
and the four Seeded, cubs the second Seeded phillies versus
the third Seed, dodgers and in The American league it's
The Blue jays versus the four Seeded yankees and the
second Seeded mariners versus the sixth Seeded. Tigers The tigers

(01:15:38):
were the only lower seed to, Advance so that's what
you're looking at as The wildcard round has, concluded and
we now move into The Divisional series of, baseball and
all four divisional championships get underway On. Saturday so if

(01:16:01):
you're a baseball you, know if you're a baseball, guy
it's gonna be a busy. Day it's gonna be a
busy day with college, football busy day With Major league.
Baseball if you like, Sports saturday is gonna be a
good one. Again, ah, three, four, five zeros are eighty.
Six we're gonna have a break here coming up and

(01:16:22):
we'll put a big old bow on the show. Again,
fantastic fantastic week on the. Program we really hope you
enjoyed our conversation earlier earlier this week with Former clemson offensive,
coordinator former head coach AT smu and At Arkansas Chad.
Morris and don't forget Coach morris is with us each

(01:16:43):
and Every, wednesday and don't forget his, Son chandler and
The Virginia cavaliers in a big. GAME i Think, virginia you,
know is another one of those teams that can do
some more favors For clemson because because Of ginia Faces
louisville and The tigers face The cardinals as. Well now

(01:17:04):
there comes a point Where Tony elliott's success becomes an,
issue right like it could be maybe.

Speaker 6 (01:17:10):
It's virginia that holds you.

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
Out but until that's the, case you just root For
tony to help cause a little. Chaos calls a little,
chaos Mister, elliott all, right win a quick, Break we'll come.
Back we'll put a bowl on The friday edition of
the show That Shakespeare South lane right after, this stay with.

Speaker 7 (01:17:27):
Us what have you done for me? Lately it's a fair.
Question just don't lose sight of the bigger. Picture don't forget.
History lucky for us At, clemson the answer to the
questions what have you done for me? Lately and what

(01:17:48):
have you?

Speaker 6 (01:17:49):
Done always are the. Same we.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
Win final segment on A friday Afternoon Clemson Sports, Talk

(01:18:47):
low and Swad our prediction on The clemson In North carolina.
Game that matchup again set for noon tomorrow up In
Chapel hill.

Speaker 3 (01:18:58):
ON.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
Espn, LOOK i, mean the past couple of weeks have
been all about the critiques Of clemson and the concerns
around the, program, frustrations no doubt out there for everyone.
Personally you, KNOW i think some of What Davos sweeney

(01:19:20):
has said is, correct And Will Van dervoort reiterated, it
AND i, agree like you are realistically just a few
plays away from being a really good football. Team the
problem is amongst, those really you, know those misplays that
would have made the, difference are many more that maybe

(01:19:44):
didn't make a huge difference in the. Outcome but it's
like death by a thousand, cuts and that's What clemson
has really got to clean. Up you, KNOW i Think
dabosweeney is probably shocked that this is where this team.
IS i think that without getting better over the rest

(01:20:06):
of the, season you'll see a pretty significant overhaul of
the coaching. Staff AND i think there's positives and negatives with, that,
Right like the positives are some new, energy.

Speaker 6 (01:20:17):
Some new, blood maybe even some old.

Speaker 2 (01:20:20):
Ideas you, KNOW i know a lot of people continually
talk About Jeff scott being in The upstate and wanting
to maybe bring him, in meaning that maybe you go
back to some of what weren't. BEFORE i, mean who
knows where these these you, know how these changes.

Speaker 6 (01:20:35):
Go BUT.

Speaker 2 (01:20:39):
I think just for me personally as we sit here
going into this game Against North, CAROLINA i just want
to see this team, compete you, know be, competitive fight, man,
fight give one hundred and ten. Percent it's the worst

(01:20:59):
start since two thousand and. Four and to put to
put that into, perspective that's just a couple of years
AFTER i. Graduated that's just a year after my wife
graduated From. Clemson and we've got a child that's getting
ready to go to college pretty soon.

Speaker 6 (01:21:21):
And another one that's going to be in high.

Speaker 2 (01:21:23):
School so it has been a long time SINCE i
Think clemson fans have had the call shows and text
shows like mine and really complain about the. PROGRAM i
think eight was probably the year, where you, know When

(01:21:43):
Tommy bowden's final season at three and three and losing
that wake, like there were some big moments. There there
were some big moments where decisions had to be, made
where changes that take time took, place and and it did.

(01:22:10):
It did you, Know, Clemson it wasn't a blink to
get to the, mountaintop, right there was a steady. Climb
there was a steady. Climb and earlier this, week when
we were talking about offenses and, offenses you, know not

(01:22:32):
being stagnant and growing and And Chad morris talked about
like kind of the, ascension the plateau and then how
quickly you can actually fall and then you have the
death so to speak of business and and. Everything AND
i think what scares a lot of people is that
they feel Like clemson is certainly in that downward decline

(01:22:55):
and how does this program avoid the you, know the
death aspect of it. All and you have ups and,
downs you have ups and. Downs how do you turn that?
Momentum you've pretty much been a huge favorite in all
of your games outside of THE lsu, game and you've

(01:23:18):
underperformed beyond a shadow of it. Out so what Does clemson?
Do how do they? Play and maybe more than, anything
this coaching, staff for me And Dabo sweeney acknowledging.

Speaker 6 (01:23:37):
Like not in front of a.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
Microphone If caid's not playing, well acknowledging it with the
backup and even if it's a, drive you Give zena
one drive and if The zena can't do, it you
go back To. Cade that's, okay and when and If caid,
listen If caid can't get over, that if that's the

(01:23:58):
thing that Breaks. Caid then he's not cut out to
be a next level quarterback, anyway because he knows he's
not performing up to the. STANDARD i Think clemson is
gonna win this, game but, PEOPLE i feel really ridiculous
with any PREDICTION i. Make the offense is not scored a,
Lot i'm gonna lean in that they'll get four touchdowns this.

(01:24:19):
Weekend i'll Take clemson to win it twenty eight to
ten final. Score it is a big question mark, too
that NEEDS i need to raise my. Voice twenty eight
to ten final. SCORE i have no. Clue no. Clue
that's my best. Guess all, right we'll talk about it On.
Monday until, then as, Always i'll take care now and Go.

Speaker 6 (01:24:41):
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