The "Program Changes" Edition

With all the issues Clemson has this season, will Dabo Swinney finally full embrace the transfer portal and push the NIL limits in Tiger Town? 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's time for Clemson Sports Talk with Lawton Swan.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Finally, Clemson Sports Talk has come back. Two drive time.
Hell everybody, and Swan back in the saddle once again.
It is the show that Shakes the South Lay and
Clemson Sports Talk for you each and every afternoon as
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(01:03):
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(01:24):
in the phone line. Again. Be a part of the
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the show The Shakes to South lambrought to you in
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com two two six seven one oh eight. That's two
two six seven one zero eight. All right out of
the gates on a Friday. Will Van Derbort, the Clemson Insider,

(01:47):
joins us here on the program. Will welcome in man,
how are.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
You I'm doing well.

Speaker 4 (01:51):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
How was your week off? And did you watch the
college football?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Uh? You know, it's always weird because I wish we
had more availabil you know, because we get a good
a good bit I think, by comparison, maybe the most
media outlets. But when you have that bye week, I
don't feel like writing about like Will Helt's first sack
and you know, his development. It's just like, I just

(02:16):
want to talk about the now because the now hasn't
been pretty. And you know, looking at this matchup this week, Will,
I mean there's a legitimate chance that Duke comes in
and beats Clemson in Death Valley for the first time
since nineteen eighty, which is just a wild stat.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, I think there's more than an legitimate I mean,
I think they got a really good chance just to
win this game. This is a not a good matchup
for Clemson in a sense of they got a quarterback
coming in who leaves the country in passing yards, guys
completing seventy percent of his passes, seventeen touchdowns with two interceptions,

(02:54):
and you know, you know, let's be honest, the Clemson
secondary isn't exactly be good. They're not giving you warm
fuzzy feelings, you know, coming into this game, especially after
what you saw against SMU. You know, so it's not
a good matchup. I mean, Clemson's gonna have to play
almost flawless on offense. And let's be honest, the offense

(03:15):
they played flawless all season. I mean they don't even
know how to block so on the offensive line. So, like,
you know, it's not a good matchup for Cumpson in
the sense of if Clemson was something that you felt
confident with from an offensive standpoint, then they would have
a chance in this game. Because Duke's defense is not
that good. They do some things, they try to scheme

(03:37):
some things. They got some very good defensive ends, but
they give up a lot of yards and you know,
and they give up they give up a lot of points.
And Clemson would would be able to move the ball
on them if it was like last year's Climpson offense.
But this year's Cumpson offense, we don't know who's gonna
show up and what they're gonna do, and so, uh yeah,
I'm just kind of interested to see, you know, how

(03:59):
this game turns out. As you mentioned, not only the
first time Duke can win since nineteen eighty. I'll give
you some other stats. Nineteen eighty against Clemson, but since
nineteen seventy one, Clemson has played Duke nine times on homecoming.
They're eight zho to one. Now, why did I say
nineteen seventy one. Well, Clemson's forty seven to four and
one on homecoming since nineteen seventy one. That's why I

(04:21):
mentioned that date. And then the other stat is they've lost.
They've won fifteen straight against Duke at home, and Duke,
which beat Clemson in twenty twenty three, has not beat
Clemson the consecutive games since nineteen sixty nine and nineteen seventy.
That's what's at stake from a history standpoint for Clemson

(04:42):
and Duke.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
This weekend, Will van der Board again with this year
on the program. He's on Twitter at Steeler Will, and
so with all of those numbers and notes kind of
out there, Will, I think the first thing that comes
to mind is what's it going to look like for
Christopher of Vezena and and I threw a poll question
out on all our social media channels and the reactions

(05:04):
were a mixed bag, but overwhelmingly people felt like he
deserved more opportunity. People are tired of kind of watching
kid club Nick fizzle and they want to see the
fresh new quarterback. But the problem is is that fresh
new quarterback might not be good enough to beat the
Duke Blue Devils either, And it all could snowball into

(05:28):
the case of where you don't make a bowl game
if you maybe don't roll with the best guy. Even
if a Zena is behind club Nick into mind's eye
of you and me and the coaches, is it okay
to turn the page a little bit more towards him
after what we saw against SMU.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
I think Clemson needs to play the best guy to
win because you still want to win and if they
do want any kind of postseason, they can't lose this game.
This game is huge for Clinton the standpoint of where
they could not possibly finish the season. And I think
you gotta have Kate Clubman. Now here's why now has

(06:08):
filmed on crystalher Zena many Diaz gone good coordinator. He'll
draw something up for Zena to give him to cost
to get turnovers, to confuse him. Whatever. If Zena is
in there, I think Clubnik gives you the best chance
if he's how healthy he is, and if he's he's

(06:28):
like you know, but godless is probable, So that tells
me he's playing, right, I mean, because you don't put
probable if you're not playing. Generally, probable is like ninety
five percent sure you're playing. So you know, I think
he's playing. Now, how much will chrystalher Zina play, I
don't know, We'll see because comeson might want to just
change things up on Duke a little bit and and
tries a little confusion with their with their starters and

(06:51):
I mean with their defender defensive players. So I don't know.
I say, Clubnik, if he's healthy, is your best option.
Because even if the Zena played above our expectations, I
want everybody to remember the first half because they had
nine possessions and scored seven points and I think they
had five three and outs and then one stripsack crumble

(07:16):
and you know during that time, so it's not like
they looked great early on. He got better in the
second half and looked good. They made some adjustments and
he got confident and threw the ball down field. But
many Diaz, if he sees Christmaler Presina in there, that's
what he wants because he's seen him on film. Now
he knows his weaknesses and he's going to try to
confuse him as much as he can. And one thing

(07:37):
they know about him is that he hangs on to
the football a little too long. And good thing, because
you'll wait for things open and downfield. But as you
guys know, you got to have that clock in your
head and get going, especially with the kind of defensive
ends they have, and then especially with how bad Punson
is on the offensive line. And I can't emphasize the
word bad enough. How bad that offensive line is.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Well, just thinking about all of those pieces that are
a problem this year for Clemson, it's shocking because of
how everybody felt about this team coming into the season.
And it's not like you lost a whole lot. What
in your mind is has made the difference just in
the performance of the offensive line. And and maybe that's

(08:25):
the real key, is that the offensive line has played poorly.
But it's essentially the same group.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 4 (08:35):
Now.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
One thing you know, and I think you know you've
heard this past week. Garrett Riley commented on it, talking
about how they have had they haven't really had any
continuity on the offensive line, they've had guys get injured,
and they've moved guys in and out. You know, the
best reserved guy with that, who's Elijah Thurman, has been
hurt pretty much all year and that's really kind of

(08:57):
set them back. Walker parks that that Bosweeney said the
other day, he's at best eighty five percent healthy, and
you know they barely can use him the last couple
of weeks. They used him for one play in each
of the last two games, so he really hadn't been available.
Harris Sewell, for some reason, has just taken a major
downgrade from where he was a couple of years ago.

(09:17):
If you remember that Notre Dame game. But Harshewell came
in and just looked so good against Notre Dame. And
now he's getting thrown down like a rag doll, Like
how many times do we see him falling at the
feet of his other offensive lineman because he's getting just
thrown to the ground by the you know, defensive tackle
or defensive end and just you know how embarrassing is that.
You know, I don't know what's happened there. And so,

(09:40):
you know, Blake Miller has not played up to his
caliber at all. He has so many miss assignments each week,
and it's it's just not it's not funny anymore. Yeah,
you know, and then uh and then you know, you know,
you look at you know, Tristan Lee has been in
and out of the lineup all year with an injury himself,
so there's been no continent on the left side. And
you've got to freshman who's got I think he's got

(10:01):
a ton of potential in Bradon Jacobs, but he looked
like a true freshman in the le SNU game. And
so that's the problem right there. I just named everything,
and it's not like, oh, all the guys that came
back last year have been one there the whole time
during this haven't. I think the problem what you discovered
is Clinton has no really good depth at all. Despite

(10:22):
what we were told in the off season, they didn't
have any depth on the offensive line, and it's really
come back to bite them during this season because they
just look back Colin Sadler, who's going to be out.
He's also out for this game. You know, he hasn't
looked good either, so they thought he was going to
be somebody that could count on. So it's been it's
been man, you pick whoever you want to say is

(10:45):
bad on that offensive line, and they're bad. Like that's
how bad it's been. It's like not one guy has
just been bad, It's been everybody across the board.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
Well, Van der Bort with a show on the program,
So Dabo Swyn he has been pretty pretty open about
the fact that he doesn't seem to be you know,
he's not willing to make a change at any point.
This year is going to be the end of year
evaluation like he always does, and I'm sure that's gonna
be the lingo that we're gonna hear from him eventually.
I wrote an article though about this Clemson offense in

(11:16):
Garrett Riley, and I labeled it as thin ice. Is
that where we are? I mean, is this salvageable at
all for Garrett Riley and your mind will or is
the ice already broken and this is just a matter
of wrapping up the season.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
I think it's already broken. I think, you know, last
year when he didn't get a raise or anything, he
kind of told you when the other coaches did and
he didn't, it kind of told you where they were.
It was kind of a all right, let's see what
you do this year? Can you put consecutive years together
and being good now? Unfortunately, for gett Riley, part of
his problem is how bad everything I just talked about

(11:55):
the gain. You know, quarterback hasn't played well, the office,
the line hasn't played well. So you know it's been
you know, not all of it is Garrett Riley's fault.
Some of it is, and obviously he question sometimes the
creativity of the play calling. But then again, is the
creativity of the play calling as bad as it is

(12:16):
because his players can't execute? You know? So how much
of it is the coach? How much of it is
the players? I always say, in this day and age,
now that you're paying players, you hold the jimmies, and
Joe's just as much responsible as you do the coaches.
And so I think though across the board, there's got
to be changes. It's got to be changes with players,

(12:38):
there's got to be changes with the coaches, and I
think Garrett Riley's one of those guys. I think, because
of how things have gone this season, you got to
put some fresh faces in place. I think that's what
Dabo needs to do. It's time to like he's going
to have to put some fresh faces in place and
new ideas in place. They kind of get the enthusiasm
back in the program because right now it's so obvious

(13:01):
it's not in there. I mean it is, it's very
obvious it's not in there. And I just think sometimes
it's not one person's fault. And I don't think it's
all get Riley's fault, but I think you got to
make a change just because you need to start over
and see if you can put some enthusiasm back in
the program.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
So from there will I guess we can talk about
some of the other potential changes. Maybe this program will
have some of that being perhaps kind of their philosophy
on recruiting and their philosophy on the transfer portal. I
talked at linked about that here on the program over
the past couple of days, you know, just trying to

(13:39):
fill some of this bye week, and not to mention
three decommits from the Tigers in just over a month
timeframe and two coming in the past seven days or so,
and I think about like how hesitant they are to
offer guys. And I talked about the value that you
have in being a player's first off, which is rare

(14:01):
for Clemson. That they're ever a player's first off or
because of their philosophy. I mean, is that something else
is Dablosweeney gonna finally have to look in the mirror
and say that the standards that he has held true
for fifteen seventeen years have to change in order for
Clemson to keep up.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
No, his standards as far as what they do and
how they evaluate. I don't think needs changed because the
culture is still important when you bring people in, you know,
and I use it to free agency. When you look
at the teams that have been successful in the NFL
over the years, it's just a handful of teams that
has consistently been successful. Obviously the New England Patriots, obviously,

(14:42):
the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Green Bay Packers, the Baltimore Ravens. Well,
pay attention to why those guys are successful because it's
the culture in the locker room is very important to
them and that they keep that thing the same no
matter who they bring in. And that is the case.
I think that is what dablished he still wants to do. Now,
what he has to do is go into the transfer

(15:03):
portal and be aggressive. He doesn't have to go get
twenty guys like Florida State does. But he needs to
get like eight, nine, ten guys and he needs to
use the portal to help immediately address issues they have,
which going into next year could be you know, a
wide receiver, could be quarterback obviously, it could be somebody

(15:24):
on the offensive line, maybe one or two guys on
the offensive line, definitely going to be a defensive end.
You know, maybe you go get somebody for the safety
positions in that corner. Those are the things they got
to go in and address, I think with the transfer portal.
But at the same time, you can still recruit the
guys that fit your thing. I mean, look at Duke

(15:45):
for example, they got nine guys on their team. They
went to the transfer portal and got and many das,
got nine guys that fitness program that fit the way
they want to do things on offensive defense, and all
nine of those guys are playing, every single one of
them or starting, so like that is kind of what
you got to do. Now, you're not going to hit
that every year, but you've got to hit the majority

(16:06):
of those and I think Clinston's got to play it
that way, but make sure they stay within what they
want to do from a culture standpoint, and then on
the recruiting standpoint. You know, it's it's kind of hard
to say because on one end, you want them to
go compete and go get the best players possible and
pay for and pay for it. But at the same time,
how much money do you want to invest when there

(16:28):
you could be investing money in a guide that's gonna
leave when you can invest that money on somebody else,
whether it's retaining somebody or somebody in the transfer portal.
So there's a fine line there on what you got
to do there with that evaluation with high school players.
But what I think you do have to change is
you have to change the way you handle high school recruiting.
Now I don't think high school recruiting is the number

(16:50):
one thing anymore. I think it's address your needs in
the transfer portal because that's like free agency. You can
take care of needs there and then you go to
the recruiting and handle Okay, let's try to get some
guys that we can develop, so we don't have to
always use the transfer portal so much. So it's a
fine line. I think every year, based on how the

(17:10):
team is and your roster, how you are rounding out
your roster. It's going to depend on how you use it.
Like Brad brown Ellen, the basketball team has done the
se last several years. You know, they change it year
to year, and I think that's what you're gonna have
to do going forward. I don't think there's one set
thing you do. I think you just based it from
year to year and I'll tell you go and attack
to build your roster.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Will have been to forard with us from the Clemson
Insider dot Com on Twitter at sealer. Will so sticking
with the portal. You know, given the change at Penn State,
getting a new head coach coming in there and the
connection that Tom Allen has back just being the defensive coordinator,
they're a season ago that that feels like the obvious
place where you might could go get some guys that

(17:52):
were young. And again I understand that that he wasn't
there for like four years and these aren't all his
guys that are on that roster, but man, that's like
easy pickings to go get some of those freshmen that
maybe came in a year ago at Penn State and
played for him.

Speaker 3 (18:07):
Yeah, or guys that he recruited to Penn State even
though he left Slimson, but he was recruiting last year
for Penn State, so you know, so yeah, there's probably
gonna be a couple of guys, one or two. Again,
it depends on what your what needs you need. And
I just gave you the list of players Crimp they
kind of need. That's what they need in the portal.
So you gotta think there's one or two of those

(18:28):
guys available that they can go pluck, you know, and
and they will. I think they will. I think Dabo's
gonna be aggressive in the portal this year because he
knows he has to. He's gonna lose. I think several
guys that are are in the top two, you know,
on the depth chart, are gonna leave and they're gonna
have to go get some guys to uh fill out

(18:49):
the roster. I think Clinton's gonna have more people leave
than probably they've had in the past. Now they're gonna
try to retain some of their startup players, but let's
be honest, who are there that you really want to
retain that's done anything. I mean, you got to think
Peter Woods and t. J. Parker are gonna go pro.
You're gonna lose the Monte k part. Maybe you want

(19:11):
to rechange the file on Green as a guy. I
think you single out, But who else will help you?
Maybe try to entice to keep him right so he
doesn't go pro. Maybe you say, hey, look, you know,
stay another year. Maybe you could be a first or
second round draft pick. You know, we're gonna give you
the money. Stay at Clemson. You know, you know Aston Hampton,

(19:31):
maybe because you still think that the feelings high for him,
you know, but who else?

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Who else?

Speaker 3 (19:37):
Who else on that team? You know? J Moore, I
guess you and Brian Westkill obviously, I think those are
obvious things in there. And obviously the freshman tight ends
are are definitely guys you want to get. But nobody
else you're really like saying, oh my goodness, we got
to make sure we keep him.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Hey, Will, I'll tell you what. Let me put you
on whold. We'll come right back. We'll finish this up.
This conversation up with Will Vanderboard right around the Bend
Rocket Roll in Clemson's sports talt logs Wine with You
on a Friday afternoon, Will van Derbort on the guest line. Will,
So we were talking about the situation with Clemson and
the roster management this off season and just trying to
get better. I'll let you finish your your thoughts on

(20:16):
that real quick, kind of.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
Just let's see with the chips fall, and then you
try to replace them with who you can either in
the transfer portal or through high school recruiting. The good
news about positions like wide receiver and running back, if
you do it right, you can go get a high
school player and a high school running back and high
school receiver and they can come in and contribute right away.
We've seen that, you know, two years last year with

(20:38):
TJ Moore and Brian Westcoat. So I think you know,
you kind of look at wide receivers like that and
maybe you don't have to address that as much in
the portal as you do those other positions that I mentioned.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Well, Will you mentioned TJ Parker and I've talked about
him on the program here. I'm thinking in the nil
era Will that it's possible, and I know his his
draft projection is still good, but his production has not been.
I could see it possible that he would want to
come back and prove himself because he can still make

(21:11):
good money playing collegiately. And that's something that couldn't happen
ten years ago.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
Is he gonna come back and play like TJ Parker
as a sophomore for a sophomore or is he gonna
come back and play like he's done this year? I mean,
I don't know if the money hasn't hurt him, so
like I thinking like he thought he's arrived. It's kind
of the I just don't see the want to and
TJ Parker that we saw the last two years. And

(21:37):
so I want to see if I do. If I
am Clemson and he says he wants to come back,
I'm gonna be honest with him and say, well, I
need to see more out of you. I need you
to make a commitment to me and show that you're
gonna play, because you know it's hard to go get.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
That money well, and and why does the NFL, you know, Like,
why would the NFL want to give him money if
the effort that you're gonna get when he makes money
is squadoosh. I mean, he has done nothing this year
to impact the games.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
That's correct, and the NFL is gonna see that. And
that's why I think his draft stock has slipped, and
it possibly could slip more. Now, let's see he's got
five games left. Let's see if he turns it on,
you know, these next couple of weeks. Because I mean,
if TJ. Parker could be the TJ Parker we know
he can be, he can be a difference maker for
Clemson on defense, he really can be, you know, and

(22:24):
it would really allow Will Hell, who now is getting
all the double teams. I don't know if you've noticed that,
but will help you all the dumble teams now not
TJ Parker. And so, like, you know, let's just be
honest that TJ. Parker, who's gonna have one on one opportunities,
could be TJ Parker. He's got a chance to dominate
and be really good, and then that will help his
draft stock go back up. But he's right now, I

(22:44):
just don't know. Maybe it's because he was worried about
this wedding that he just got married in. And my
question is, why in the world are you playing for
a wedding in the middle of a football season. TJ. Parker,
what are you doing? So, like, you know, I questioned that,
and I've had for the guy. Don't get me wrong,
you know you're happy for him and his wife. But man,
you could tell he was distracted or something because he

(23:06):
hadn't been the same player. So maybe now that that's
behind him, maybe we start seeing him be a better
football player in the weeks to come.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
TJ. Parker, the family man, getting after it now settled
down and married yea over the bye week again, will
Vanderbort with us here for a few more minutes. We'll
let's talk about coaching, and not Clemson coaching, but coaching nationally.
We saw Brian Kelly get fired down at LSU, and
that's a you know, he was a top twenty team

(23:34):
going into that game. They did get their doors blown
off by Texas. A and M. The thing I've been
saying here on the program all week, and I think
this is the beautiful fix to the buyout situation we coaches.
I said, you know, if you're LSU, go get your
former offensive coordinator jimbo Fisher. A and M is paying

(23:54):
him seven point two million dollars a year through twenty
thirty one. They have he has nothing in his contract
to mitigate, so it means if they pay him five millions,
A and M still on the hook for seven point two.
But he could take a dollar. He could take a
dollar to be the head coach at LSU and tell

(24:15):
their fan base, let's pour everything we've got that you
would pay me into our roster. And I think that's
where this game could change. And I would challenge Dabo
Sweeney further will to do something similar and say I
don't need eleven million. I can live off a two million,
and let's put nine million into our program. And I
think more coaches need to take that strategy. And I

(24:37):
think it would be a brilliant strategy on the LSU part,
LSU's part to let the team that walloped him pay
foot the bill for their coach for the next six seasons.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
Well you have, But Brian Kelly did that sort of
and didn't get so. I think he gave like a
million or a little bit more than a million right
his salary.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
But I'm telling you substantial, right, Like I'm saying these dabos.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
You're stuff about eleven million, right.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
I mean, can we we can agree, right, Davoswinga does
not need another eleven million dollars?

Speaker 3 (25:10):
Well, no, I mean Dabo Devo's like not a guy
that looked be honest. Dabo gave money for how many
years did he give money to his assistance before he
took a raise? And he's kind of done that the
last couple of years where he had Dabo hadn't had
a raise since what twenty twenty, uh something like that.
I mean, so I talk about a real raise, he's
got an extension talking about race. You know, where he
got more money. He's been making eleven point five forever,

(25:33):
you know.

Speaker 4 (25:33):
So.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
You know, but people say, hey, but people would say
the performance during that time has been where two point three? Am?
I right?

Speaker 3 (25:43):
Yeah? I mean you can make that argument. I mean
fans listening clinsive fans are rotten in the sense of
they've been spoiled. They got spoiled in the nineteen eighties,
me and you knew it. And then the nineties came
and we're like, oh man, that kind of like wow,
that changed. And then by the two thousands, you were
hungry for a championship again, right, And but then there's
this new fan base, the kids that are in their
mid twenties that never seen Clemson lose really, right, I mean,

(26:06):
ever since they've become fans, all they've seen is Clemson win,
and so they don't know anything. They sort of like
the way we were grown up right in the eighties
and all they knew was winning. And so they're kind
of spoiled a little bit because I know everybody says, well,
that hadn't done much since twenty twenty. Well, yeah they have.
They've won three ACC championships, They've gone to the concert

(26:27):
Ball playoffs twice during that time. You know how many
people would die? I betually. You know, you're just living
in there in Columbia. How much would that fan base
die for one conference championship and one Conegetball playoffs?

Speaker 5 (26:38):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (26:38):
Sure, yeah, you know what I'm saying. So Crimsons would
go like, oh, I haven't done nothing. Well, yes, he
hasn't done it to the level he did from twenty
fifteen to twenty. No, absolutely, he hadn't that level. And
that's where the fan base it's spoiled. But pay attention
to what you do have. And you do have three
conference championships in that time span, and there's a lot

(26:59):
of team that don't ever get that. And and Clymson's
playing a lot of big games and during that time span,
and they won a lot of games. So it's not
like they're sitting there going like they are right now. Now,
this team, Yes, it sucks, and now you're kind of
understanding what's really sucking is like, right, and so you're
three and four and you're just trying to beat Duke

(27:20):
to get the four.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
This is what's sucking, is like, No, you're right, No,
it's been bad.

Speaker 5 (27:25):
Will.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
I'll tell you what, man, we got another break coming
up here. We're gonna keep Will all he's he's on
a roll here today on a Friday afternoon, keep it
a lot right here on Fox Sports Radio fourteen hundred,
Clemson's Sports so Long the Swan, Will Vandiwoard on the
guest line. Hey, don't forget about Alumni Hall right there
on the corner of campus on College Avenue, downtown Clemson.
It's Alumni Hall for all your officially licensed Clemson merchandise, hats,

(27:46):
T shirts, Tailgate gear, more. Go check them out today
or online in Alumni Hall dot com. And hey, don't
forget it's not just if you go to Alumni Hall
dot com. It's not just Clemson gear. You can get
Tennessee gear. You can get Virginia gear. Clemson's having at
you know, season that's a little bit off tilt. As
Will mentioned, before the break. So maybe you've got a
Tennessee family member and you want to get them some gear.

(28:09):
Alumni Hall has it, But if you're in Tigertown, visit
their store right there. It's all Clemson all day long.
Alumni Hall where Tiger fans shop. All right, Well, you
were talking about Clemson football and uh, I think you said, uh,
you know, fighting or scrapping or whatever for a bowl
game against to beat Douke, to get to a bowl

(28:29):
game potentially and earn that it kind of tells you
how how bad you stink, but that these past years
that even didn't live up to the expectations of previous years,
aren't really close to be as bad as this one.

Speaker 3 (28:43):
What's happened prior to this the last four years is
not that. That's just not playing for a national championship
every year. So then you got to understand the differences,
and I think this season will help fans realize that
and what you are if you're a fan base, it's okay,
what can I do as a fan to help them
get there? Like Dado is trying to figure out how

(29:03):
he can get there. And one thing about Clemson fans
man that I'll say is. They're very loyal, right, and
they're very passionate. That's why i KA is always so big.
You know, there's South Carolina would love to have it pay.
They would love to have the fan base Clemson that
they don't have this they don't and if they proves
that every year, if you just look at the numbers
and compare the two booster clubs, Cson, if they kills

(29:25):
South Carolina's right, So the fan base, the passion for
Clemson fans is there. Now, you know, how is that
going to help NIO. I need to stop hearing some
of these Crimson fans stop saying, oh, I don't want
to pay in iol because we don't need to pay players.
Well do you need to stop that? Because they ain't
going nowhere? So your your job as a fan should be, hey,
let what do I need to do to help this

(29:46):
football program get back to where it needs to be.
That would be my answer of my question as a
fan if I was giving money to Clemson and it
ta because now I pay has absorbed, right, They've absorbed
all that and so now you can pay if pay
and also pay the nil and the collective. So if
I was a Clemson fans. That's how I would do it,

(30:07):
because that's what they did back in nineteen thirty four
when they formed I pay. The whole point of it
was what can we do to help Clemson football program
be one of the best teams in the country. And
that's still the same premise of why if T was made.
If T was made for Clinton football, it wasn't it made.
The other sports did just benefit from it, right, But

(30:27):
if PA was made for Clemson football, it was birthed
out of Clemson football. You know, nineteen thirty four they
lost to the Citadel at the Florence you know, in Florence,
South Carolina, and they just they got beat and you know,
Jervy and coach you can help me out there.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Listen, will you getting back in the thirties, buddy? You
Coach Riggs, I don't know, just.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
No, no, not Coach Riggs. It was I'm sorry, my brain,
I know this answer. Mandy went to Rice the famous
six coach before coach before Coach Howard, coach Neely, coach
Neely Neel Okay, and a lot of big wigs. They
sat in the car the parking lot in for South Carolina,
and that's where that's where if pay was conceived, right

(31:15):
there in a parking lot, because and what was the
purpose of it? Just Neely says, if you guys want
to win in football, you got to figure something out.
We got to do something if we want to win
a football that's the whole premise of it tech And
so I think Clempton fans need to get behind Diptay
and get by And I'm not doing this as a
commercial for IPTA and all, but that's where it starts.
If you can give, if you can give, that's how

(31:37):
the fans can help get this thing back on track.
Because right now Clemton could really, like you just mentioned,
and that's what started this whole thing, use the money
to help pay for some of these players and get
these big time players into Clemson.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Well, and I don't know what the donor bases look like,
but it's it's probably no surprise that you're starting to
see Vanderbilt in Indiana and Georgia Tech and schools like
that sit at the top. And I'm thinking Stanford is
going to be on a run at some point. I mean,
I mean the money that some of these schools have
by comparison, then not just Clemson, but South Carolina, et cetera.
I think it's immense all right, final thing, will the

(32:09):
Tigers are trying to continue a path towards a bowl game.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
I can't believe we're saying that it.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Starts tomorrow. They need to win badly. I mean, what
do you think will? I mean, can will they win tomorrow?
And ultimately do they make a bowl game?

Speaker 3 (32:29):
I think they can win tomorrow because Gooke's defense is
going to give them opportunities. If the offensive line can
just block like a you know, a decent college football
offensive line and give Kate Club mctime, guys are going
to be open. The receivers. I think Tristan Smith has
an opportunity to be a big time factor in this game.

(32:52):
You know, I think now that he's going to be
used more because the Bryant Let's go out. I think
you can see Tyler Brown can be a factor in
this game. Obviously, Duke's going to be concentrating on Antonio Williams,
a big guy. They're going to concentrate on TJ.

Speaker 4 (33:06):
Moore.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
I think you got to get the balls to the
tight ends. And the one you need more than anything
is you need Clemson's defense, especially that defensive line, to
play like it was supposed to play that. You know,
how you fix a bad secondary low, Yes, and they

(33:27):
got the dudes to do it. That's what drives me crazy.
They got the dudes to do it, and so but
they just can't. They've been inconsistent. And I think if
those guys who come out, TJ. Parker, Peter Woods will help.
If those guys can come out and play, then they're
going to give Clemson a chance on offense. Because I
think Clemson's offense, if it gets enough opportunities, can put

(33:51):
up some points tomorrow. So right now, though, if I'm
a betting man, I'm betting toward Duke to win this
game because Duke has just been more consistent throughout year,
and they obviously got the better quarterback, and so I
think that's why I give the Blue Devil's ditch.

Speaker 5 (34:05):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
Will Van Derbort will have a great week again. Check
out his work on the Clemson Insider dot com.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
All right, thanks Loud, appreciate Someboddy.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Will Van Derbort doing a little fundraising for IPTA right
here on the program. That was great. I was like
I felt like I was at ah I really felt
like I was at a sermon, you know, at a
church where at the Church of the Clemson Foundationalist, and
today we're gonna be preaching you from the Gospel of

(34:34):
Ip Tay, Like, oh man, yeah, it's tough, it's tough.
The the whole thing has changed. I think was so
disappointed though, is how poor Clempson is played and the
reality for fans. You know, I think the feeling is,
why can't you know, Clemson figure this out because other

(34:57):
programs clearly are other program have figured it out, and
for whatever reason, you know, maybe it's being hard headed
or just not willing to change. Dabos Sweeney, I think
this offseason, as much as he evaluates the staff, I
think he's gonna have to evaluate the man in the mirror.
Final segment of Our One right after this final segment
of Our One, coming up. Tommy Ballden, longtime Clemson head coach.

(35:23):
Always appreciate Coach balad He's been with us for nearly
a dozen years and his insight into college football about
as unique as anybody. He's given his ties to his father,
one of the great head coaches of all time, Bobby Bowden.
Down at Florida State. Of course, Bobby also coached at
West Virginia, and they honored Bobby Bowden last weekend up

(35:46):
at West Virginia. Rich Rodriguez, the former Clemson offensive coordinator
under Tommy Bowden, is back again in Morgantown. He's the
head coach there. What's all with Tommy Bowden. Then a
little bit, well, some news out from LSU. I kind
of talked about how the connection between Scott Woodward and

(36:08):
Less Miles not less. Oh, there you go. There's where
that brain kind of clicks at Jimbo Fisher. I mean,
at least I said the name of a LSU head coach.
Scott Woodward sent a letter to Tiger Nation saying this

(36:28):
with a heavy heart, but I also with my typical optimism,
that today is my last day serving as your director
of Athletics. I grew up a few miles from campus,
attended Catholic high school, and enrolled in the university that
would change my life in nineteen eighty one. My four
years as an LSU student were among the greatest of
my life. My career took me into government and public

(36:50):
relations before the opportunity to return to my alma mater
in two thousand to lead external affairs for the university.
Being back on campus each and every day was a
true honor. My journey would take me to Seattle and
to College Station before finally returning in twenty nineteen to
LSU and to Baton Rouge. Others can recap are opineal
my tenure and all my decisions over the last six

(37:11):
years as director of Athletics, but I will not. Rather,
I will focus on the absolute joy that LSU Athletics
brings to our states residents and to the Baton Rouge community.
I will cherish the incredible relationships I had built within
the university community and beyond our campus borders. And I
will finally remember the National and SEC championships for the
joy that they brought to our student athletes, coach of staff,

(37:34):
campus community, and our incredible fans. Our university will always
hold a special place in my heart and will never
be too far and I will never be too far
from LSU. Then that Michael josh and I wish the
Tiger's nothing but the best, Go Tigers, so Athletic director
Scott Woolward out at LSU. Woodward, of course, the guy

(37:56):
that engineered Jimbo Fisher's contract at Texas A and M
and engineered the contract for Brian Kelly at LSU, two
of the largest buyouts in the history of the sport.
One of the things, though, I did see, and I'm
not sure how accurate this is, but that based off
of how the LSU contract worked with Brian Kelly, I

(38:19):
read somewhere that it might have to be paid by
the citizens and not not by the university because Kelly
something along the lines of with the way it's set
up there in Louisiana, was you know, his final employment

(38:42):
or whatever you call it, is signed off by the governor,
something along those lines. So kind of a weird situation
developing there. Speaking of a weird situation, how about this
Mike Locksley, head coach at Maryland, talking about a visit
for one of the top rated prospects in the country,

(39:03):
Zion Eely, he was paid to visit South Carolina, and
Mike Locksley said, quote in my opinion, those guys, you know,
they get paid to go take those trips. Now, why
would I be mad for Zion to make five to
ten grand to go down to South Carolina. He's been

(39:25):
loyal to me and the program that we've created. I'm
not saying that's what happened, but you know, over the years,
for me, if I have a great communication with a kid,
I can operate out I I can't. If I have
great communication with the kids, I can't operate out of fear.
Now I don't know that locks is going to be
the head coach at Maryland next year outside of maybe

(39:47):
this commitment from Zion Eely. But the thing that happened
there that throws up the bid, the big red flo flag,
is that Mike Locksley mentioned the kid by name. Now
he didn't mention his last name, but I think it's implied.

(40:10):
He just called him Zion, And you can't talk about
a kid. That's like one of the rules. But I
started thinking about that this weekend, and you know what,
I think that's one of the dumbest rules in college
football the more I think about it. And here's why.

(40:35):
If nobody can talk about the kid, then if anybody
talks about the kid, it's a problem. And people would say, well,
that might be a competitive advantage for Mike Locksley or
anybody that talks about him, even if he's already committed
to Maryland. But I want to take it one step

(40:56):
further and flip the script completely and say to you this,
what if you could talk about any kid? What if
every coach could talk about any kid? Wouldn't that be like,
theoretically the exact same as nobody being able to talk

(41:18):
about a kid. Hear me out, My daughter's been doing
these math problems that are like no solution, one solution,
multiple solutions. Well, if if zero equals zero is your

(41:41):
final answer, right, it's infinite solutions. So why not just
make it where coaches can talk about these players and
not even worry about it. If Mike Loxley wants to
talk about Zion Elies, then so can Shane Beemer. And
how is that any different? If every coach can talk

(42:01):
about every player versus no coach can talk about no player. Like,
to me, that's infinite solutions. That is the exact same.
The only difference is in one scenario, coaches don't have
to worry about what they say and and we're all good.
In this situation, a coach says something like Mike Locksley,
and you could potentially get in trouble. That's stupid. You're

(42:23):
just saying a kid's name, Big deal, all right, Tommy
Bollen joins us around the band. Keep it locked.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
It's time for Clipston Sports Talk with Lawton Schwan.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
It is our number two. That's drivetime right here on
the Show that Shakespeare South Plant Clemson Sports Salt lo
on the Swine, ain't out with you? Tommy Bouton, former
Clympson Tiger Head coach, coming up on the program here
in our number two and again the Show That Shakespeare
South Playing, brought to you in part by our good
friends over at Mets Plumbing A Mets Plumb and die

(43:34):
com to six seven one o eight. It's two two
six seven one zero o eight. All right, all the
gates hour too. Tommy Bouten joins his coach. Welcome in.
It's Halloween. What was the best Halloween outfit or costume
you ever award as a kid back in the day.

Speaker 4 (43:51):
No, you know, I don't. It seems like every year
I was dressed the easiest possible thing, which is like
a hobo, you know, blue jeans and all that flad shirt.
And then as you got older, you know you did,
you dressed down as little as possible. But I remember
because I love sweets, so I remember the night. I

(44:11):
remember well, because of that, I'd make that candy last
as long as it could.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Oh man, no doubt. So what's your go to candy
bar today? What do you like? What's your favorite?

Speaker 3 (44:19):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (44:20):
You know those peanut Dutch chocolate covered peanuts, Eminem chocoaate pants. Yeah,
that's hard to be. I like sniffs Snickers. It's been
around so long. You just the combination, the combination of
stuff and the Snickers you can't go wrong with. I've
switched a butterfinger and several things, but Snickers. If you
had to pick one, you only get one to take

(44:42):
it to Heaven with you, it'd be Snickers.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Listen, you and I are of the same kind of
lane and candy. I like peanuts, Eminem's. I like a
mister goodbar, just the chocolate with the peanuts in it.
I'm good with that too.

Speaker 4 (44:55):
But oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I like just just a
little bit more, just a little bit more on the
Smogers board, like a little care of all and all
that stuff.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Oh that's awesome. Tobby Baldin with us here on the program. Coach,
it'll be the Tigers and the Blue Devils in Death Valley.
You were an assistant coach at Duke back in the eighties.
And speaking of the eighties, that's the last time Duke
won it Clemson back in nineteen eighty. Steve Spurrier was
actually the offensive coordinator for the Blue Devils back then.

(45:25):
When they came back, I think they scored twenty one
unanswered according to Tim Beray. And I look at this game,
and you face this Duke team in Death Valley. I
know it was more what's the right word, more frequent
before the league expanded, but man, this is probably the
first time in a long time it's really felt like
the Blue Devils had a legitimate chance to come in

(45:45):
and not just beat Clemson, but maybe beat them soundly.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
Well, well, you know, they're a lot more athletic, And
I don't know what happened when David Cutcliffe went there
that they somehow really really changed their personnel to be
a lot more athletic, especially on the defensive side of
the ball.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
I noticed that, And since I coached there, I'd always
kind of pay a particular attention to their their talent
level because it was so difficult back when I was
there recruiting. UH, the interest requirements. A lot of people
think Virginia Vanderbilt and Duke are all the same. They're
they're they're not you know, uh, Duke was a level
higher as far as the requirements academically, and it just

(46:27):
really ties your hand when you go out recruiting, your
your clientele, your personnel, your pool of talent is not
nearly as big. But they've changed that. So what you
were just saying, you know, this is the team is
fully capable of of of beating Clemson, beating Miami. They've
got defensive talent or well coach, they've got the cut
guy from Tulane.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
You know.

Speaker 4 (46:46):
Uh, yes, So yeah, you're right. They they're they're they're
a different Duke team than in the eighties.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Now. I don't know what the the the amount of
money that these schools all have. You know, you hear
things about endowments, but most of the time in endowments
utilize for the academic side of things, Like if you
look at Vanderbilt, but when you just kind of peer
at these polls right now with Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech, you know,
maybe Indiana where they sit, Duke having the season that

(47:15):
they're having, and there are other programs out there like
Stanford that are not having a great year that certainly
have a lot of money, But are we potentially in
a new, completely new era in terms of college football
with what teams have in terms of money that they
can put into their programs that maybe you couldn't you
couldn't shine it up enough at at Indiana previously, but

(47:38):
you line somebody's pockets with enough money, you can get
really good players. I mean, is this a change that
we're gonna see teams like this at the top or
at least in the conversation moving forward.

Speaker 4 (47:50):
I think you're seeing a different Duke alumni being untapped
that was untapped. For example, Duke has always had a
great academic reputation for years, and so getting rich, academic
minded alumnis contribute to the university building up there. You know,

(48:11):
they're like you said, they're endowment and all that that
mostly goes to the academics. Was no problem. All they've
had rich ex athletes, but they've never been successful. It's
an untapped resource now. Duke, Virginia, probably Vanderbilt is another
great example. Those guys have been sitting on their money.
Those rich alumni from Vanderbilt and Duke that had an athletic

(48:34):
background played a sport and been sitting on their money.
Now see success and they're letting it loose. And like
you just mentioned, I think you're going to see a
research resurgence would not be the right word, but I
think you're gonna see a really moved by the Vanderbilts,
by maybe the Virginia's, by the Dukes because they're fixed
to pumps of money. I don't know if the figures

(48:55):
accurate or not. You saw seven million for the quarterback
to Lane to go to Duke wouldn't surprise me. But
I think the point that you're making is yes, I
think we're six fixing to see a new wave of contenders.
And I don't throw Indiana in that group because indiana
academic requirements I don't think are similar to the ones

(49:17):
we're talking about.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
Tommy Bowden with us here on the program, and Coach,
I know you and I talk not only on the show,
but off the air as well, So if I if
I've already asked you about this, let me know and
we can move on. But you know, you see these
huge buyouts for guys like Brian Kelly, et cetera, and
I think about how much some of these coaches are

(49:39):
making today. You and I did talk about Kirk Signetti
in his ninety three million dollar contract. But are we
on the verge of a coach looking at a athletic administration,
as crazy as this might sound, and saying, hey, I'll
coach this team for one point five million, Just give
me time and put eight and a half into my program,

(49:59):
like into my team. Like, are we going to hit
a point where a coach says, I don't need more money.
I need the money to go to my roster.

Speaker 4 (50:07):
Uh, you know the schools that are that where you're
gonna be talking about maybe Florida and Alabama and Texas
and LSU. They're gonna always have both of them. They're
not gonna cut one in. And that's like Texas Texas, Texas,
A and M they're competitive and and if both both
coaches say, when football coach, you win ten games, and

(50:30):
Texas gives their guy an extension, and that just makes
A and M mad say, wait a minute, we got
more money in y'all. We're gonna give our guy raise
just because we got more money in y'all. So there
are still those schools out there, But I don't think
that now a school that might not have the financial
resources that what we're talking about could maybe present a

(50:51):
plan like you're talking about. But these are the higher
higher prior five schools. I don't think we'll ever get
to that. You know, we thought this dag On portal
and the nil money would kind of tap off, and
but it's it really has an NCAA is trying to
find ways for the university's given so much money. I
think a twenty million dollar cap by the universities, but

(51:12):
there's still other ways to get him money. So I
don't think we'll see that scenario you mentioned with a
higher top fifteen twenty schools. We might see it with
some of the lower group of five or Power four
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Do you think buyouts are going to be changed? I mean,
like I'll give you examples. So coach Fisher, who I
could make an argument, might be a perfect fit to
go back to LSU given their opening. Not to mention
the fact that he's going to be getting because if
they didn't have an agreement to mitigate or whatever in
his contract or whatever it's called, he's going to get
paid seven point two million from Texas A and M

(51:48):
until twenty thirty one. I think the date is even
if he gets a job that pays him more money,
Like I feel like he could go to LSU and
just tell them, hey, I need to make a whole lot.
But these contracts that these guys have, do you think
that's going to change?

Speaker 4 (52:05):
You know, I don't know, because the buyo is really
important for security of a coach, especially if he's turning
down jobs while he's there at that particular school. And
that was one of the biggest I don't know how
much personal we can get here, but you know with
one Arkansas call was coming after that next to the
last year. I know one of the things that Clemson

(52:28):
want to do is you know, taking my a buy
out to I think two and a half million down
to I think seven hundred and fifty thousand. I said, wait,
wait a minute, that's not very good, and Arkansas said, wait, man,
ain'ty problem for us. We'll make a four or five
million buy out. And the point I'm trying to make.
The point I'm trying to make is that whatever the
market value is, and if if one school doesn't do it,

(52:49):
another one will they say, Okay, we'll guarantee eighty percent
of your contact of your remaining contract or ninety percent
or one hundred percent or fifty percent. You know, if
you got to sign a seven year contract, get let
go after the first or second year, Hey, we'll guarantee
ninety eighty percent of the contract. I think there's always
gonna be schools that do that. So I don't think
it's gonna taper off right now anytime soon. But because

(53:12):
there's always the people got unlimited money. You know, there's
these like that guy in Texas, Texas buying all those players.
You know, you get one guy like that Lawton, and
you're you're in pretty good shape. Phil Knight in Oregon,
you know. So there's always gonna be a guy that
can come up with what the head coach needs to
sign him. And if his agent is pushing for eighty
percent of the remaining contract, then if you don't pay it,

(53:35):
somebody else will.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
The way they have escalated, I know you and I
did talk about that is it is wild. But anyway
you would, you would know best. You've been in that business.
Tommy Balden again hanging out with us here on a
Friday afternoon, and speaking of that business, I know everybody
you know knows that your dad had an influence on
your career. And one of the things I was thinking
about this week. You mentioned last week that you guys

(53:57):
were going up to West Virginia for them to honor
your file, and I started thinking about, like, who are
some of the other coaches that you would say definitely
had a huge impact on sort of the you know
who you became, maybe as an offensive coach or just
as a head coach in general, Like, who are some
of those other guys that kind of helped mold who
Tommy Bowden became as a coach in your opinion.

Speaker 4 (54:19):
Yeah, the guy offensively, I learned a lot off my father,
but I only spent two years, and I'm sure I
have mentioned him in the past. And you might be
familiar with a guy named Homer Smith. Are you familiar
with him?

Speaker 2 (54:32):
I know the name, but I don't worry.

Speaker 4 (54:35):
About He was offensive coordinator Alabama as when I was
there head coach, maybe aided. He was head coach of
a couple maybe one of the military academies somewhere else
had a UCLA offensive coordinator with for a long time,
Jane Stall's offensive coordinator, and then they won the national championship.

(54:56):
I learned more football off him in two years than
anywhere in my life. It was I was really two
short years. But what the West Coast offense fulfill read
things like that that I had not been had not
been familiar with. And my coaching career with my father
it is strictly another system, but he would be the

(55:17):
one guy you just really really learned a lot of football.
Just forever grateful for that guy. And you know, I've
learned a little something. Even with coach died for a
couple of years, you learned something. And Bill Curry for
a couple of years, you learned something. Gained Steve Sloan
that was the head coach at of Duke when I
was there, a good godly man, good coach. Uh. You know,
you learned a lot off him, and you know the

(55:39):
pressures of the profession and things like that. Of course,
not to mention my father, which kind of throwed him
off as a guy that would we just assumed. But
yet there's been several and I think most coaches are
like that. They draw from each coach and then take
what fits their personality and coaching style and then they
you know, then they they had and go well.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
And I think what's so unique about that, and whether
I'm talking with you or talking with Chad Morris or
whoever about it is how when you guys might go
visit a school, you know, you go in the summer
and you go work with the coaches at at Alabama
or you work with the coaches at Nevada and you
get you know, some pistol formation and some things that
you want to bring in. How that sort of evolves.

(56:22):
Its kind of like an amba, right, and and so
your playbook might be similar to mine, but you've got
some some branches of it that might come from somewhere else.
I just think it's I think it's fascinating to imagine
how the sport has kind of developed and how you guys,
maybe more than anything coach see the game compared to

(56:42):
you know, people like me who just cover it.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:46):
Yeah, Well it's like I said, there's a lot of
interchanging information between coaches. I know, I flew out for
saw C Bob Stops when I was at to clinchon
to my defensive coaches. I just want to see how
he operated defense of practice. And there were big and
turnovers at that particular time, we weren't getting them. So
try to go out there line, and there's other situations

(57:08):
like that where you go and try to get information.
I remember when I lost Alabama my last year. I
had a lot of respect for coach Saban has been
in the Crows and his ability to really really evaluate
a team where he had he had an off season,
he had six months to evaluate us. So I called
him the Sunday after our game. After we listen, I
don't play it. I don't recruit against you. Uh, get

(57:29):
any tendency, anything I'm doing wrong, any anything that you
had on me that I can you know that might
benefit me going on. You know, we talked a little bit,
so uh uh. You know, the coaches definitely do that
and share information they draw from from other people.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
And then I think the other thing too, I start
to at least notice, is when I was growing up,
at least, the majority of the football in the South
was pretty much you know, triple option kind of eye
formation stuff. And now what's old is new. It's not
from the I formation, but you're seeing more where you've
got you know, those RPOs, the kind of triple option

(58:06):
where they'll they'll dump it out to a wide receiver
out that's just in the line of scrimmage kind of
a screen. It's kind of a modified version of it all.
It's amazing how things it sort of comes full circle
at times.

Speaker 4 (58:18):
Well, it really is. And I remember I played a
game at the two Lane one year on television and
I go them off on Sunday, I'm doing work and
I get a phone call. Secretary said some guy named
Bill Walsh. Do you remember Bill Walsh?

Speaker 2 (58:30):
Right right? Yeah, yeah, but.

Speaker 4 (58:33):
He says the Sun guy Bill Walsh on the phone.
So coach Walsh what he says. I was up and
saw you play, and he says, how are you getting
the signals so fast? And he was just inquisitive and
wanted to know he'd seen us play and said, man,
I don't know how y'all doing this, and we're going
to huddle. You were kind of on the cutting edge
of all of that stuff, right, So they do call

(58:56):
and change information, ex change information, and it all kind
of goes around. But I think he was saying, you know,
there's some aspects of wing T in your offense. I said,
I didn't know that I knew what the wing T was,
but that was always something from the center was short,
quick motion back. A lot of misdirection behind pulling. We
had some of that, but he said, you know there's

(59:16):
an element. I see some element, said the wing t
you first time I'd heard that, But like you said,
it's it evolves and there's you know, some of this
RPO stuff. It's similar to some option stuff. How the
wishbone when you're doing it out of shotgun and just
expanding the field instead of doing in from tackle to
tackle doing your reading. You're reading outside with second level

(59:37):
defender sometime on the perimeter.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Final thing. Coach Tommy Ballen here with us, so talking
as an offensive coordinator, I know your sheet probably wasn't
quite as elaborate as what these guys have today. It
looks like a waffle house menu that's been you know,
plastered over, so it's not going to get damaged in
the rain. But how did you kind of organize that, coach?
And do you put a by play you ran? I mean,

(01:00:01):
how do you kind of keep up with that?

Speaker 4 (01:00:04):
Yeah, there's so many different ways to do and I
beat around my father so long as a young coach.
I just copied mirror as his play call sheet and
we used to meet with him as young ja I'd
meet with him on Friday nights. We'd go over to
the game planned about one or two in the morning
and kind of did the same thing. When I started
to become a head coach, I scripted my first twenty plays.

(01:00:25):
I went right down once. You know, just go down
them and then you might check one off it's good.
And then you have you know, you have a segment
of first and ten. You know, when you're backed up,
come off the gold line first and ten in the
red zone first and ten the free wheeling zone which
is out in the middlefield left hash right hashes. You
break it all down and have your calls, but there's
short yards. You have about four two point plays which

(01:00:49):
are not bad out in the field and win the
game on fourth and two. You need a good something.
You take one of your two point plays and you
could plug it in there, gotcha, But you also have
a short short yards out in the field. You know,
just every situation you could come up, and then you
self scout yourself to make sure you're not developing any tendensees.
After about four four games, most of them so some

(01:01:09):
of them now are a lot more complicated than the
things we just share.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
Final final question we got about a minute. How often
in a game would you go against the grain, meaning
you got to play that you felt like you would
call here. Would you say no, no, no, I'm gonna call
this completely different thing. Did that happen much or did
you always kind of stow?

Speaker 4 (01:01:25):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's just a field. But yeah,
there's you get a feel when they when as the
game goes, you know that you definitely do that. It's
at some point in time in the game say hey,
I remember I did that. This will this will shock them.
You know, this is my father was really really good
at that. That's how I kind of developed his reputation
going against the grain on some of his calls. I

(01:01:46):
think that's what you said. But yeah, and and and
if your defense head coach's defensive guy, he didn't like
act they don't like stuff like that. They're more hard nose,
run the ball, run three downs, punting. So he gets
an offensive coordinators year if he's sometimes a defensive minded
head coach. That's that scenario on the sideline. So often

(01:02:07):
important the comfort jones and the head coach offensive coordinator.
What's their background? Head coach is offensive line coach? Very
usually wrong? We run that ball and you know that's
those are sometimes easy to find.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
Coach safe travels the rest of your way to Tallahassee.
We'll talk to you next Friday. Hey man, that's great stuff,
isn't it. Oh that's awesome? All right, quick quick break.
We'll come back more here now number two long swan
back with you on the show The Shakes of south Land.
So that was Tommy Bowden for the break, and sometimes
I wish I had more time with him. But one

(01:02:40):
of the things I started thinking about, you know, Clemson,
the ACC now requires teams to put out their availability report.
I mean I like it. I mean Clipson used to
do this. This used to be pretty normal. It wasn't
released in three parts like this is. But you you

(01:03:01):
had a little report about who was out and why
and what was banging them up. But Kate club Nick
last night eight o'clock, the initial report comes out, then
a report will come out tonight, and then a report
will come out tomorrow. The official game they report and
Kay club Nick this week was listed as probable, which

(01:03:25):
obviously means you nunlikely to play. And there are a
number of names out that are certainly of significance, but
those aren't anything new, but probable with Kate not questionable,
probable more than likely he'll play, and the coaching staff

(01:03:47):
has talked about, you know, his snaps and the reps
and zena, et cetera, et cetera. But I started thinking
more and more like, Okay, this was an ankle injury,
and I never really went into addressing the fact that
he probably should not have been in the game at
that point anyway to potentially get injured, especially if you

(01:04:08):
consider that they said after the fact that he'd already
kind of been banged up a little bit anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:04:15):
But.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
A high if it's a high ankle sprain, and we
haven't really heard definitively like this is what it is,
but we know it's the ankle if it's something like that,
and he's not at one hundred percent, which no, first off,

(01:04:38):
let's acknowledge no player is at one hundred percent right now.
But if Caid's you know, I don't think he would
be playing if he was at fifty percent, right, So
we can agree here we think he's better than fifty percent.
I would imagine that to be you know, just playing

(01:05:01):
a game and feeling healthy. You would label yourself as
a player at one hundred percent when in reality you're
probably like ninety five. So let's talk about being somewhere between.
Like I think he's better than I think he'd be
better than seventy and less than ninety, so somewhere in

(01:05:23):
that range. But I bring that up just to ask,
like if he if his ankle's not one hundred percent
and he's a little bit banged up and he's having
trouble getting around, and I really think Christopher Vizin is
a better athlete than we've seen. To be honest, where

(01:05:48):
would k need to be for you to say, undoubtedly,
go with Vizena because a lot of you just say
go with Vizine Anyway, a lot of people have just said,
you know what, forget a bowl game. Now, I just agree.
I think there's some I think there's some power in
the statistics of the number of years Clemson has been
to a bowl game and qualified and been eligible for

(01:06:09):
a bowl game dating back to nineteen ninety eight. Obviously
they had a year where they didn't go to a
bowl that was more of a bowl band kind of
stupid in my opinion.

Speaker 4 (01:06:18):
But.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
Anyway, like, where would it have to be for you
as a coach or you would go, heykay, we're going
with Christopher. We don't think you're quite there. And I'm
not saying there's a writer or wrong answer here, but

(01:06:41):
I just feel like you have to consider Kate club
to get his ability to do what has made him
a weapon for Clemson at times, scramble out of the pocket,
pull the ball down, keep the ball. He has not
been the player that you expected this year. Dabosweeny will

(01:07:03):
not freely say that Kklebney's career would go down as
a disappointment, but I would absolutely put it there, and
I would put it there based off of the fact
that you know the expectations he did not. He didn't
set him for himself. You set him for him. Guys
like me took what we read and thought that he

(01:07:26):
was going to have a fantastic year. But I still saw,
I mean I still saw even in Game one, just
the happy feet and the unsteadiness kind of in the pocket,
the bouncing and nerves, and you still see it. He
looks like a he looks like a It's like a
dog that hadn't been trained yet, you know, he looks

(01:07:49):
like a a dog that still needs to go and
get trained. There's no doubt he reminded me of like
a lab puppy the first year he was on campus,
and even into year two still had some of those
lab puppy traits. And last year you thought he was

(01:08:09):
kind of mature and he's becoming And this was supposed
to be like old Yeller season. This was supposed to
be when you could count on him. This was supposed
to be when you could trust him. This was supposed
to be when you could be confident in the decisions
that he's making. He was supposed to be old Yeller.
But he's been more like that puppy when he arrived

(01:08:30):
than anything else. But how bad would that ankle need
to be for you to go, yeah, you know what,
maybe we'll go with CV. And if he went out
there and played, even if he said, now, coach, I
feel good because ultimately I think the player makes a call.
But then you, as a coach are looking at it
and watching it. At what point do you go, we

(01:08:50):
gotta go with Christopher Vizina. We just have to. I mean,
I think that's out there, and I don't think it's
completely impossible to believe that Clemson starts off well and
scores a touchdown or two with Kate in the game,
and they still pull him, looking at just his health

(01:09:11):
and say, hey, we'll ripe this thing with Bazina for
a little while and see how it goes. But you know,
a true changing of the guard giving Kate's status, I doubt.
But I think you'd be foolish to think that if
Cade's not at that ninety to ninety five percent range
where he just looks good, that you're not going to

(01:09:33):
see a good bit of Bozina tomorrow. And I don't
think it's bad that you're going to see some Boziina tomorrow, regardless.
I think it will be good. I think what will
be bad is if you don't That's what I really
think that will be bad if you don't see Christopher
Vissina tomorrow. All right, when we come back, we'll take
a look at the slate of games across the country.
We'll tell you where to lock in as you settle
in to watch college football tomorrow afternoon plus ESPN. Is

(01:09:57):
it going to be on YouTube TV? I'm not sure.
I'll tell you why when we get back. Clemson Sports
salt Lot and swan with you on a Friday afternoon
A three four five zero zero eighty six. So we'll
get to some games here momentarily, but don't forget about
our friends at Alumni Hall on the corner of Campus

(01:10:18):
lill College Avenue in downtown Clemson. It's Alumni Hall or
All for all your officially licensed Clemson merchandise, hats, T shirts, Telgate,
garmore go check her out today online at Alumni Hall
dot com. Don't forget to ask them when you're in
store about those Nike drive Fit polos that you know
I love, and learn more about their Alumni Hall rewards program.

(01:10:39):
It's Alumni Hall. We're Tiger fans. Shop now today. You're
gonna lock in on the World Series I would guess
at eight o'clock on Fox Blue Jays. With a chance
to win it all at home, I'll definitely have that
tuned in. We've got NBA action as well this weekend.
But if you're a YouTube TV subscriber such as I am,
you will know that the ESPN network of stations is

(01:11:04):
not available, meaning that tomorrow's game between Duke and Clemson
will not be on your YouTube TV, and so you
might say, well, what are my options there? Swannee It's
not great, Bob, if I'm being honest, not great. One
thing you can do is I was looking Sling TV

(01:11:27):
actually has something they are labeling the Weekend Pass for
nine n nine, and they know that people are looking
making a college football weekend just right on their page
college Football Tonight on ESPN and ESPN two watch with
the Orange day Pass of four ninety nine. So what

(01:11:48):
I'm thinking is tomorrow, and I do not know this,
but I think tomorrow they've got a one day pass
that you can get for four dollars a nighteiney non cent.
So for five bucks tomorrow you can get Sling TV
and streaming. I would also imagine that Fubu or foe Fubo.

(01:12:13):
Maybe Fubu Fubu was the clothing line, right. Fubo I
think also has the ESPN family, and they've got a
free trial available now if you just want to say
five bucks and try something a little bit different, it

(01:12:34):
looks like Fubo has ESPN. I'd have to double check
about the ACC network. Okay, I'm not one hundred percent
sure about whether they have the ACC network, but that
looks like an option for free. Looks like I'm not
for certain and then direct TV also has a streaming component,

(01:12:58):
and given the losses that they've had, they'll give you
a five free day trial, so you could do the
five free day trial on direc TV. Now after that
it's gonna be fifty bucks a month for Direct TV streaming,
but yes, there are some ways around it, so you

(01:13:19):
could do the five day free trials. You could do
some different outfits, whether that's Fubo, whether that's drect TV,
whether that's Sling TV, and for that matter, there's probably
there are probably some others out there that you could
dive into. But I think you could get the five
day trial on one, and if this contract dispute lasts long,
which I don't think it will, you could go get

(01:13:40):
another one. But I don't feel like it's my job
to try to negotiate this deal for these two bohemos.
I mean, I'm paying the seventy dollars a month or
whatever it is for my thing. You guys figure it out.
Don't bump the price upon me though, because I will
go to whoever else. Honest to goodness, is the only
thing keep me on YouTube TV right now year round

(01:14:03):
is how much my dad takes advantage of being a
part of my family because he has macular degeneration and
doesn't see very well. And the big TV that we've
got for him, the size of the the logos and
stuff on his screen, so he can see the games

(01:14:25):
and he can find them. It's so much easier than
any cable package. It just I mean, he can navigate.
My dad with limited vision navigates a Roku television like
like you can't imagine better than my kids. I'll tell

(01:14:45):
you that my dad can navigate it better than my kids.
All Right, games coming up tomorrow. Here's the schedule. Here's
where you want to lock in. Here's where you want
to sit down, chill out and take it all in.
There are some games tonight, including a top twenty five
Memphis team on the road at Rice. That's a seven
o'clock started on ESPN. Two North Carolina's at Syracuse at
seven thirty on ESPN. Not available to YouTube TV subscribers

(01:15:09):
currently now. Tomorrow at noon, Ohio State host Penn State.
That was supposed to be a great game. The Buckeyes
are an eighteen and a half point favorite. Then there's
Texas and the questionable arch Manning at quarterback. He got
injured in Texas's game with Mississippi State. They are hosting Vanderbilt.
They are three and a half point favorites in Austin

(01:15:32):
over the ninth rank Commodorees. Big game for Clark Lee
and the Commodores and Diego Poppy. I mean, if they
could win that on the road at Texas, I mean,
that's like beating Alabama a year ago. Quite frankly. Also
at noon, you've got SMU hosting Miami. The Hurricanes are
ten and a half point favorites on the road. Remember
Rhet Lashley was the offensive coordinator there at Miami, not

(01:15:53):
all that long ago. Just what a couple of coaches ago.
I guess hadn't been too many years though. Did he
go straight? I think he might have gone straight from
Miami to SMU. Then, obviously on the ACC network, Clemson
hosting Duke. The Tigers still three and a half point favorites.
Actually went back up, went up to three and a half.
It was down to two and a half yesterday, but
it did open at three and a half. You've also

(01:16:14):
got Florida and Georgia. The largest outdoor cocktail party. I'll
still call it that till the day I die three
point thirty on ABC UGA minus seven and a half
in that one, and of course the Gators already fired
Billy Napier, so a little changing of the guard on
the coaching staff there. At seven o'clock on ESPN, it'll

(01:16:35):
be Old Miss the Rebels hosting the Game Cocks. The
Rebels are eleven and a half point favorites in that one.
Then at seven thirty on ABC, a big matchup between
the Tennessee Volunteers fourteenth rank Volunteers and the eighteenth rank
Oklahoma Sooners. Tennessee favored by two and a half. Here's
the thing. People seem to have forgotten that John Mattier
had surgery on his hand. People seem to forget that

(01:16:59):
and wonder why the Oklahoma offense hasn't looked quite the same. Well,
that might be part of the reason the guy was injured.
I'm really rooting for the Sooners in this one, really
rooting because as good as things have gone for them
this year, I think another loss this would be their
third loss of the season. That's a tough fan base

(01:17:20):
to pacify. And I love Brent Vinables and what he
stands for, and I'm just afraid if they lose another game,
that they're gonna come after him again, because that's gonna
put him in the bottom They're already in the bottom
half of the SEC, but that's gonna put him down
in the the lower half for sure. Stay with us.

Speaker 5 (01:17:39):
What have you done for me lately? It's a fair question.
Just don't lose sight of the bigger picture. Don't forget history.
Lucky for us at Clemson, the answer to the questions
what have you done for me lately? What have you done?
Always are the same. We win.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
Some final segment on a Friday afternoon prediction time Clemson
and Duke Oh my goodness. I mean it's tough. Uh,
The unknowns around kid Klubnick, his health and even if
he was healthy, the way he's played, the unknowns about

(01:19:07):
how good and or bad the Clemson offensive line could play.
The unknowns and uncertainties about this Clemson Tiger defense and
who's gonna show up and how they're gonna play like
it's it's frustrating. Uh. This is a team that in
the past you didn't have to be concerned about how
they were gonna play. I remember that that was the thing, Dabos,

(01:19:30):
when you would always say, that's not who you play,
it's how you play.

Speaker 5 (01:19:33):
Well.

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
I'll tell you what feels like he was right, because
how they've been playing struggle bus struggle to cash in
on scoring opportunities, struggle to force turnovers, just just frustrating.

(01:19:56):
And from the Clemson fan perspective, I understand how frustrating
this season has been. You know, you gotta win the
turnover bal Tomar. If you want to win this game,
you gotta be able to rush the football. I think
you gotta be able to take advantage once you get

(01:20:18):
the running game going of some play action shots and
test their secondary quarterbacks. Gotta make sure he has time.
So you gotta have the offensive line do a good job.
And I'm not one hundred percent against doing some things
that maybe move especially if it's k Club, maybe move
the pocket a little bit. Clemson has not been good

(01:20:39):
this year, and it's gonna take an all out effort.
I would venture to guess that from top to bottom,
looking at Clemson's schedule so far, this is probably I

(01:21:00):
would say the third best team clemsones face just from
top to bottom, maybe fourth, maybe fourth, But there's a
chance this duke team is better than SMU I don't
think they're better than LSU or Georgia Tech. I know

(01:21:22):
they're better than Syracuse. And you know, the road doesn't
get any easier, like we said Latin, like we said
earlier this week, next week you host Florida State. And
while Florida State is a team that's three and four
and zero to four and the ACC and sure enough

(01:21:45):
could lose this weekend against wake Forest seven thirty on
the ACC Network, they have I think probably the second
most talent potentially the Clemson faces this year. Maybe third
might be behind LSU in South Carolina. But this feels

(01:22:09):
like a game that is a must win. If you're
gonna make a bowl game, you got to get to
four and four here. You need to be able to
present yourselves with two wins out of the final four
games to get to a bowl game. You can't go
to the final four games needing three wins. I don't
think Clempson's got three wins there. I'm not sure they

(01:22:32):
have two in this final five. Quite frankly, we'll see
if they can scrounge them. It starts tomorrow at noon
on the ACC Network. And you know, over the years,
the predictions I've typically gone with Clemson, but I just can't.
I gave them a shot a week ago. I wasn't
willing to. I wasn't willing to what's the word kind

(01:23:00):
of go against convention and give you two picks, one
if kid plays, one if he didn't. So I'm just
gonna give you the pick he assuming that Cad plays.
Let me tell you something. Will Van der Wart said
it best. T J. Parker, Yeah, I'm not sure what
the terminology was. Non factor and that's what he's been,

(01:23:22):
a non factor and Ki Clubnick's barely been a factor,
to be honest. I mean, Kay Clubnick had some moments
against no level competition in North Carolina and Boston College.
I don't think Limpson wins this game. I think they
can win it, but I don't think they'll win it.
They haven't proven to me that they really want to win.

(01:23:46):
It may not be how you play, it may not
be who you play, it's whether you want to play.
This team doesn't look like does not look like a
team that wants to play. So I'll take the Duke
Blue Devils to knock off the Tigers tomorrow. I don't
think either team gets in the forties. I'll go Duke.
Thirty one Clemson twenty three, so eight point loss at home.

(01:24:10):
I think Duke wins it. And it's more, it's not
about I don't think Clemson can win the game. It's
I haven't seen Clemson play like they want to win
the game. I believe Clemson is good enough to beat
Duke by twenty I believe that, but they haven't played
like that, and they've given me at this point, you know,

(01:24:34):
seven eight games, seven games in the season, going into
the eighth game. They haven't given me a reason to
pick them in this game, So I'm not I'll take
Duke to win it. Thirty one twenty three. All right,
we gotta get out of here. We'll be back on Monday.
Till they is always Y'll take care now and go Tigers.