How Your Phone Spies on You & WiFi 7 Explained

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
How your phone and car are spying on you. The
new website that reveals the best Internet in your area
based on real life speed tests. Walmart sells an Apple
laptop directly for the first time and it's quite the deal.
Plus your tech questions answered. What's going on rich Damiro

(00:21):
And this is Rich on Tech broadcasting live from Los Angeles.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Coast to coast.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
This is the show where I talk about the tech
stuff I think you should know about. It's also the
place where I answer your questions about technology. I believe
that tech should be interesting, useful, and fun. Let's open
up those phone lines at triple eight Rich one oh one.
That's eight eight eight seven four to two four one
zero one. Give me a call if you have a

(00:47):
question about technology. Guests this week, we've got a couple
of them, as we typically do. We're going to talk
to doctor Scott J. White, Associate Professor and director of
the George Washington University Cybersecurity Program. He's going to talk
about the security concerns with TikTok Kashmir. Hill, technology reporter

(01:10):
at The New York Times, is going to explain how
our cars spy on us and Dwight Silverman, freelance tech
columnists for the Houston Chronicle, will join to explain what
you need to know about why five seven. Well, this
whole debate over a TikTok band got me thinking just
how much data are our phones collecting on us? Yes,

(01:33):
we know they monitor things like our location. They know
exactly where we are, but how is that information shared
and what else do they collect? Now to find the
answer for this, I went to the app privacy policies
that both Apple and Google freely post online. These are
pretty much meant for developers because they are supposed to
disclose the types of information they collect using their apps

(01:55):
and the categories they fall into. And these categories are
quite revealing. So of course we know that Apple and
Google will allow the collection of location data, including your
precise or your approximate location. Now you've probably seen this
message when you first open an app. It says, hey,
do you want to share your exact location or do
you want to share your approximate location?

Speaker 2 (02:14):
I always choose approximate.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Now, some of these apps have gotten pretty slick and
they won't even function unless you say precise, So of
course you have to go back and try precise and
then they'll work, so be on the lookout for that now.
Both platforms, of course, can collect personal information like your name,
your email address, your phone number, also financial information, payment details,
and with Google there's even a category for purchase history.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Not sure what that one's all about.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Now.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Health and fitness obviously a growing area. Many of us
are using our phones to count steps, work out, even
monitor sensitive health conditions that we may have. This, as
you might expect, is a treasure trove of information. Apps
can also scan through photos, videos, and even audio files
if we give them the permission. You might have noticed
with the latest version of iOS it asks you, hey,

(03:01):
do you want to give access to all of your
photos or just some of your photos?

Speaker 3 (03:05):
Why?

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Well, because it turns out that some apps we're sort
of looking through pictures for information that might help them
GPS data. Where you took these pictures, where you go
very often the people in the pictures. Now, what you
tap inside apps and how you use these apps.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Is also recorded.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
So every tap that you make inside an app, a
developer can see where did you navigate to, what did
you tap on first, what did you tap on second?
All this information is collected and potentially up for grabs
also the device identifiers, So what kind of phone are
you using, what size screen are you using, what your

(03:43):
phone is yours, what type of platform are you on?
All of this diagnostic data is collected as well. Now Google,
of course has They both have this thing like kind
of a nutrition facts label I call it for their apps.
So when you're looking at the app to download, look
for that little box. It will show you some of
these things that an app is collecting. And if you

(04:06):
look at that, you'll realize why online marketing is such
a booming business, because they are collecting as much as
they can. Now here's where the two platforms differ. Apple
sort of parses out an entire category for sensitive info. Now,
this is what apps might want to collect on race, ethnicity,
sexual orientation, pregnancy disabilities, religious beliefs, your union membership, your

(04:31):
political opinion, and more. Google does not separate this information out.
It lumps it into the much more harmless sounding personal
info category. Google also has a separate category for messages.
This will allow apps to read your email, your texts,
and your other messages. Apple lumps this one in with
a much more harmless sounding user content. Yes, apps can

(04:53):
read your email and your texts and your other messages. Now,
for some reasons, this may be a use case scenario.
Say on Android, you download a third party app that
you want to use for your text messages. That's why
they would have to read it. But they also might
just say, hey, we want to read your texts, and
if you give them that ability, they could. Both platforms

(05:13):
have categories that let apps tap into your web browsing history,
although I'm not exactly sure how that one's used because
I feel like that should be pretty well guarded.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
But that's an interesting one.

Speaker 4 (05:23):
Now.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
On Android, any old app used to be able to
see a list of other apps that you had installed
on your phone, but now they've limited this again. These
two platforms have gotten much more strict with these permissions
because they've realized they've been abused over the years. Apple
does not allow apps to look at your list of
other apps. That's pretty nice. Apple sandboxes things, which means
apps really can't see.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
What other apps are doing.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
Both platforms, of course, have a category for contacts, which
allow an app to see even personal details like how
often you contact someone, how long you talk to them for,
and your call history. So yes, your app could no
particular people that you call and how long you call
them for. They also have a course calendar access that

(06:06):
could be useful for travel journaling and health apps.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
But you could see how this could be abused.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Apple's policy has some interesting new categories due to products
like the Vision Pro. This includes environment scanning. So I
realized this when I was using the Vision Pro that
wait a second, this thing could see all around me.
It can see my entire image of my house or
wherever I'm using this. So environment scanning collects image detection

(06:33):
of the user's surroundings along with head and hand movement.
Think about that for a bit. All this sounds pretty scary,
and yes, in many ways it is. These are some
eye popping data points that go way beyond just your location.
In reality, I think it's actually a good thing that
Apple and Google have these categories because the more specific

(06:53):
these categories get, the better it is for us as consumers,
because we can say, yeah, you can do this with
my phone, but my hand movement information rather or not
you have that information. So as consumers, we need to
be hyper aware of the permissions and app asks. For
don't just download an app without looking, and don't just

(07:13):
flip through all of those little screens that say, hey,
can we have permission of this? Can we have permission
of that? Everyone wants to speed through and just get
to the app. Look at what those screens are asking you.
They are very important.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
Now.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Apps want to know about us as much as possible
because the more they know, the more they can target
us with better marketing or of course monetize this data.
A lot of these apps share this data with third parties.
They sell this data. So why do you think an
app wants to get really popular, Because hey, we've got
information on one hundred million people.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
That is very valuable information.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
And by the way, these people that are buying this information,
they're mixing it with other databases so they can get
a really good picture of who you are. So ideally
an app can collect our information to run properly, but
it would not sell this information to someone else, or
it wouldn't share that information to someone else. So again,
check those App store listings. Both Apple and Google have
some information about this on the App store listings. That's

(08:08):
what you want to check. Now here's the other thing.
Here's the big takeaway. Get your pencil on paper out. Now,
I'm just kidding. You don't have to. You can just
hear this and you can go for the link on
the website. You can check on your phone to see
which apps are using which permissions, and you can revoke
these even after you've installed apps. So on the iPhone,
you can go into Settings and then Privacy and Security,
and you're going to see a whole bunch of categories

(08:29):
like contacts, calendar, microphones. Tap one of those categories and
you can see all the apps that can tap into
this stuff. So for Instagram, if you're not recording stuff
with your microphone on Instagram, take away the ability for
it to tap into your microphone. Same thing with Facebook.
It just makes sense if you don't need those things
to have access to that. On Samsung's same thing, you
can go into Settings, Security and Privacy and they call

(08:52):
it Permission Manager, and you can tap into categories including
body sensors, call logs, or location. Once again, you can
tap an app to change its permissions. On the pixel,
same thing, go into Settings, Security and Privacy, Privacy Permission Manager. Yeah,
you see how they kind of hide these things down
many many ways. You can tap into a category to

(09:13):
see which apps have access there. Again, tap an app
to change its permissions. Hopefully, just by being aware of this,
you will understand how much data about you flows through
your phone, and you will help stop at least some
of that flow if these apps do not need it.
And by the way, I think that phone models, instead
of the iPhone fifteen and the Pixel six Pixel seven,

(09:34):
they should just call every phone model double o seven,
because it's basically a little spy in your pocket. All right,
Coming up on today's show, I've got the website that
reveals the best internet service provider in your area. But
first it is your turn your calls coming up next
that eight eight eight rich one oh one. That's eight
eight eight seven four to two four one zero one. Also,

(09:55):
if you want links to what I just mentioned, sign
up for my newsletter search rich on Tech newsletter. Sign
up and you can get information about what I just mentioned.
My name is rich Dmiro. You are listening to rich
on Tech. Welcome back to rich on Tech. Rich DeMuro
here hanging out with you talking technology at triple A

(10:16):
rich one oh one. That's eight eight eight seven four
to two four one zero one. Website for the show
rich on Tech dot tv. And if you want more
information about what I just talked about. It's all in
the newsletter. Just search rich on Tech newsletter and you
can sign up.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
In a moment, I'll tell you about the new website
that helps you find the fastest internet in your area
based on real life speed test data. But first let's
go to Shelley in Seal Beach. Shelley, you're on with Rich.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
Hi.

Speaker 5 (10:49):
Thank you for taking my call.

Speaker 6 (10:50):
Rich.

Speaker 5 (10:51):
Yeah, I am an Apple use all my all my
devices are Apple compatible. I have been using an iMac
since they came out. The one that I have now
is twenty sixteen. I do keep them on the software updated. However,
the hardware is complaining. Now I need to get another

(11:15):
computer just because I need the hardware, and I decided
I want to get a laptop. I do not know
what laptop would be recommended. Also, I need a recommendation
for a printer that would be compatible with the laptop
that you recommend. I want an all function laser printer,

(11:39):
and that it'll have a theater a theater, and that
it'll have a color. Was that too much? Did you
get all that?

Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah? I think so.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
You want a laptop to replace the iMac, So you
want to stick with Apple.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
I take it right correct.

Speaker 5 (11:53):
All my devices our Apple, so they all think everything sync.
I want to keep it that way.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
What are you doing on the computer. Do you need
to use it for a home.

Speaker 5 (12:05):
I use well, I use the Microsoft that is compatible
with AMPLE. I also use pages and.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Any video editing.

Speaker 5 (12:22):
Video editor. No, I don't use. I don't use video editing.
The videos that I use I take on my iPhone
and then you're transferred to the computer, okay, and then
I keep I keep the external hot drive along with it,
so if anything happens, everything is in the cloud.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
Well, it sounds like a MacBook Air is probably what
you need. And they just yeah, they just came out
with new ones a fifteen inch and a thirteen inch, So.

Speaker 5 (12:49):
I personally how much how many inches?

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Thirteen in thirteen and fifteen, So I personally would go
with the fifteen inch because I have a thirteen inch
laptop and I really can't deal with it. It's the screen
is just way too small. And now here's the thing.
Are you moving this laptop from your house ever? Are
you taking it on the go, like outside or like travel?

Speaker 5 (13:08):
Reasons that I want the lamp, I like, the desktop
is just comfortable to use, and I've been using it
since for one hundred years. However, we need to go
someplace or I need service on it, I cannot. I
cannot move it. So I do want the laptop because
it is portable.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Well here's the thing. Okay, so you're gonna pay a
premium because of the laptop. You're gonna get less ports
on it, you're gonna get less specs, You're gonna get
just less for your money because it is portable. So
I would say, if you don't need that portability, then
go with another iMac. But I think you're in luck
because this this MacBook Air just came out with the
new chip.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
It's the M three chip.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
And you're telling me your last computer lasted eight years.
So that tells me that if you get even the
base model of this computer, which you know is about
you know, let's say it's twelve hundred dollars, let me
look how much it is exactly. But I'm book MacBook
Air fifteen, So i'd say the MacBook Air fifteen starts
at twelve ninety nine. Are you in education or anything

(14:07):
like that? Do you get any sort of discounts?

Speaker 2 (14:09):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (14:09):
So perfect, she'll get a little discount. Don't forget to
shop at the Apple Education store. But basic specs on
this are, you know, for twelve ninety nine, you get
eight gigs of memory and two fifty six gig hard drive. Now,
Apple likes to play a little bit of games with
their with the lowest end because it has a good
price that's advertised at twelve ninety nine. Personally, I think

(14:31):
everything gets better when you go one step up with
the Apple products. So it's fifteen hundred dollars that'll get
you more hard drive, and it may be a faster
hard drive too, I believe. Now, I personally would upgrade
that memory to sixteen because eight at this point is
kind of getting a little bit low for a laptop.
So I think the base specs you want is sixteen

(14:53):
five twelve.

Speaker 5 (14:54):
That's sixteen gigbytes, sixteen sixteen bit memory.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Sixteen gigs of memory yep, and then five hundred and
twelve gigabytes of hard drive. I think that's what undred
and five, yeah, twelve, five hundred and.

Speaker 5 (15:07):
Twelve, five hundred and twelve.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
And then sixteen gigs of memory.

Speaker 5 (15:11):
Now that's what five hundred and twelve.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
That's the M three chip, which is going to give you, Uh,
that's their latest chip. This is the same laptop that
I'm about to purchase. So I think that's a great Now,
that's one way of doing it. The other way to
do it is if you don't want to spend that much.
If you don't spend feel like spending fifteen hundred dollars,
there is a new Mac or a new computer for
sale at Walmart for six ninety nine. Now, that is

(15:34):
going to be a computer that's a couple of years old,
so it's it is aging a little bit. But if
you just want to save money, I don't think you
should go that route. Because you've kept your computer for
eight years. So if you do the math on this
computer and you keep it for another eight years, even
if you're spending fifteen hundred bucks, that is still a
fantastic deal.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
You know.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
That's you know, two hundred dollars a year. So I
think that's a great way to go for it. Now,
for the printer, I would just go with a lazy
Jet from HP. I would check Wirecutter for that, see
what their latest recommendation is.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
But I'm pretty sure that.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
HP is pretty much the game in town when it
comes to the color laser printers. So and they most
of them have that, you know that little thing you
want to the feeder on the top. So, Shelley and
Seal Beach, thanks so much for the call today. Appreciate it.
Good luck with the new laptop, and I think you're
gonna like it a lot. Let me tell you about
this before we go to break. Here there's a new

(16:29):
speed test performance directory directory from Oukla. They're known for
doing the speed test. Everyone goes to speed test dot
net to do a little speed test to see how
fast their internet is. Well, now they've got they've taken
all that data on the back end, and now you
pop in your zip code on this website and it
will tell you all of the providers in your area,
if they have information on them, and the actual speeds

(16:50):
that people are getting from these internet service providers. Because
a lot of times the advertisements you see on TV
are mostly for the download speed. But this will show
you the upload and the download and the latency, which
is the time it takes from when you click a
link to something actually happening on your computer.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
The lower the number, the better.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
You might even discover a provider in your area that
you weren't aware of, So the website speed test dot
net slash performance check it out. I'll link it up
on the website rich on Tech dot tv. Coming up,
we'll talk TikTok and a potential ban on the rich
On Tech Show. Welcome back to rich on Tech. Rich

(17:30):
Demiro here hanging out with you, talking technology at triple
eight Rich one O one eight eight eight seven four
to two four one zero one. You can find me
on social media at rich on Tech. I am on X,
I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook, and I think I'm
on TikTok, but I don't really post there, which brings

(17:52):
us to our next segment, TikTok. You have no doubt
heard that the US is trying to ban this thing.
This is a very popular app, one hundred and seventy
million users. It's based out of China, which I guess
is the concern with the US. And so far, the
House has passed a bill unanimously to ban this or

(18:15):
really divest it. We'll get into the details in a
second here, but now it's headed to the Senate, where
we don't know if it's going to pass or not.
And then the President has also said that he probably
will support this. So this is a very real thing
and to talk about it. Let's bring on doctor Scott J. White,
Associate Professor and Director of the George Washington University Cyber

(18:36):
Security Program and Cyber Academy.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
Professor. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 7 (18:42):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 8 (18:43):
It's my pleasure to be here.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
So let's talk about TikTok. This has been the topic
du jour here for a while. We heard this, I
mean I remember covering this a couple of years ago,
like I think it was during the pandemic, or right
before the pandemic, there was a big to do about banning.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
This didn't happen. What's different this time around?

Speaker 8 (19:04):
Yeah, I think, you know, it's a good question. I
think there's a lot of things that are different. I
think from our last election. You know, we had a
fair election in the United States, but it was it
was brought up by the intelligence community that there was
definite interference from China and Russia, and that interference really
came in the way of using social media, which both

(19:26):
of those countries are very good at being propagandists in
the worst possible way. So I think we're very cognizant
of the power that these organizations TikTok can have on
kind of manipulating people's decision making. But I think here specifically,
I think when you start looking at you know, China

(19:47):
being a surveillance society, it's the most surveiled society in
the world. You know, with the social credit system, you
could you could jaywalk across the street. Your picture gets
taken by a camera on the street, it's digitized, your
name comes off on a central database, and you lose
points automatically, you know, no judicial procedure. This is the

(20:10):
fear in a liberal democracy, and I think these are
things that we have to be concerned of in a
never shrinking world of liberal democracies.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
So we've got the app collecting data on you know,
millions of American users, and it's collecting the same data
that you know, many other apps like Instagram and Facebook
and obviously these other apps on the same platforms are collecting.
But what's different about TikTok. What are they doing differently
as an app? Is it the fear of the connection

(20:39):
to China.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
Well, I think, yeah, I agree with you. I think
that's part of it.

Speaker 8 (20:43):
I mean, if you look at Chinese national intelligence law, specifically,
I recommend Article seven ten and Article fourteen. It makes
it very clear that all private sector companies must work
with the intelligence services. There are no warrants for acquired
it's a phone call or it's an automatic you will

(21:03):
share your database with us. And again in you know,
you like to think that, you know, the Internet is
a democratizing force and you know really shouldn't be used
as an intelligence gathering tool. But I think to your point,
I think the scary stuff and we look, it's true
that you know, Snapchat, necks and the rest of these
do keep data, but TikTok keeps the most amount of

(21:28):
data or tries to glean the most amount of data.
If we think of it in football analogy, you know
we're starting, you know, Facebook X is starting on the
fifty yard line, and you know the the Chinese are
starting through TikTok in the red zone. So, I mean,
they just collect so much information. And the information they're

(21:48):
going after is biometric face prints, retinal scanning, voice print identification.
That is really deeply technical.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
So when I upload a video to talk, it's scanning
my voice to understand to make a fingerprint of my voice.

Speaker 8 (22:06):
You're absolutely correct, that's exactly what's happening. They're also scanning
your face and even your retina, So theoretically you could
be anywhere in the world if the Chinese are eaves
dropping through their surveillance system, they will pick up your
voice print identification.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Is that documented? Is that? Like, where's that coming from?

Speaker 3 (22:24):
Oh, that's the way they do business.

Speaker 8 (22:25):
Yeah, I mean, that's all part of the surveillance society.
And we know what's happening because they're doing They've already
done it with their own people.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
We know what's occurring.

Speaker 8 (22:34):
Their social credit system is the basis of it.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
Now, here's what's interesting because I you know, you know,
it's it's one of these things where a lot of
people have made a living on TikTok, a lot of
you know, there's been a lot of stars born out
of TikTok. I mean there's you know, Justin Bieber, I mean,
didn't he come from TikTok? I mean so many of
these YouTube Pubo said, well, you know what I mean.
But there's a lot of people that, you know, come
from this. So obviously there is a lot at stake here.

(22:57):
It's not just like, hey, let's get rid of this thing.
Like small businesses have gone viral on this. So, but
when I was in China, I remember that I couldn't
use almost any social network based in the US over there.
I couldn't use Twitter, I couldn't use Facebook, I couldn't
use Instagram.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
It was a pain.

Speaker 8 (23:14):
So and you probably used a VPN and even the
use of VPNs. Now they're they're starting to block those.
You're correct, and the fact is that you know, our
social media sites are not allowed in China, and as
an American traveling in China, as you say, to attempt
to connect to your social media even through a virtual

(23:37):
private network is difficulty. Beginning to corrupt that system as well.
So they're not playing fair. They're incredibly hypocritical in the
way they do business. It's you know, will allow will
allow this to occur in the United States, but not
at home. H And that's not democracy. So I think
we have to understand exactly what the Chinese Communist Party

(23:57):
is doing here. They're not a friend of the United
State and they're not a friend of democracies.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
What does this mean for other Chinese based apps? If
you look at the top ten list of apps, I mean,
Timu is a huge app.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
It's growing.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
It had a Super Bowl ad and you know, I
get a lot of questions from people saying, hey, Rich,
is this safe for me to shop on? You know,
you get a thing that maybe ten dollars on Amazon,
it's thirty nine cents on Timu, So yeah, you're right.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Is that next?

Speaker 8 (24:24):
Well, Timo is very interesting, isn't it, because you know,
it's the fastest growing app of its kind through like
Google Play or Apple Store. But if you look at it,
it's kind of fundamentally on the based on the social
credit system because in addition to the low prices that
you talked about, Rich, it also gives freestuff to people

(24:50):
who promote their app. So the more you use it
and the more you disseminate that app to your friends,
the greater credits you back. And it kind of it's
a creepy way reminds me of their their kind of
social credit system that if you play their game, you
will be rewarded for it. And and you know, so yeah,

(25:15):
it's I It's something we're gonna have to also look
out for because the information you're supplying through your purchases
is also collected by the Chinese government.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
So if this ban goes through.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
If this passes the Senate and goes to the President,
president signs it, they've got to do either divest this
this company to an American company, or just goes away
like uh TikTok is saying, that's probably what's going to happen.
Does this have bigger implications for the US's relationship with China?

Speaker 8 (25:42):
Well, I think that any policy decision that that the
United States makes that uh, you know, places China at
a perceived or real disadvantage, will have some type of
consequences to it. Look, I mean, as I say, the
Chinese system is not a capitalist system. They don't have
free and open elections. They you know, they don't have

(26:03):
a free judiciary or an independent judiciary system. So you know,
again you're getting a communist dictatorship. Basically, are they going
to dictate to a sovereign liberal democracy? And I think
we're just going to have to be prepared to take
a few shots other countries have. We're just gonna have
to prepare if we believe in democracy and through capitalism

(26:25):
in a fair market system. If we believe in it,
then we have to show it. Look, we've taken apart
large companies before. Just look at Bell, you know, Bell,
Bell Atlantic, Bell Pacific. It's not uncommon to take large
multinational companies and diverse them. So asking TikTok to be
purchased by an American company, fine closure doors will have

(26:48):
the next day, you'll have an American competitor ready to
start up and meet that market need.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
All right, we're going to leave it there. Doctor Scott J.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
White, Associate Professor and Director of the George Washington University
Cybersecurity Program and Cyber Academy. You want to make a
prediction is this going to happen?

Speaker 6 (27:06):
You think it's going to be very interesting.

Speaker 8 (27:09):
I always said, you know, which is the political party
that's going to make that many young people upset? I
think the Senate is going to hold it. I don't
think it's going to make it through the Senate in
a quick amount of time. So even if it does,
it may be the next election before we see that happening.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
Well, it certainly has a lot of people talking about
it and a lot of people wondering if something like
this can happen. But again, like I said, I think
it was three or four years ago that we were
talking about this same exact thing, and it seemed like
it was imminent, so we'll continue to watch it. Doctor
Scott J. White, how can folks learn more about your
cybersecurity program?

Speaker 8 (27:46):
Going to our website at the George Washington University College
or professional Studies. All right, we'll be happy to answer
any questions about the program.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Thanks so much for the insight, really interesting conversation. Eighty
to eight rich one oh one eight seven four to
two four one zero one. Coming up, We'll take more
of your calls and I'll tell you about the Roku
data breach. What you need to know. You are listening
to rich on Tech. Welcome back to rich On Tech.

(28:20):
Rich Tomuro talking technology with you at triple eight rich
one oh one. That's eight eight eight seven four to
two four one zero one. Bobo's playing a little Beatles today.
Watched a movie last night called Yesterday. Don't want to
give away too much of the movie, but I think

(28:41):
this is common knowledge. But basically it's a world where
the Beatles were forgotten, I guess. And anyway, it's just
a very interesting little movie. Like we only got halfway through.
Of course I fall asleep, but that's just because I'm tired,
not because the movie was bad. I tried to stay up.
But it's a really good little movie. So if you
have it, it's it's old, it's not like from twenty nineteen.

(29:02):
But if you're looking for something to watch, like last night,
and I've talked about this before on the show, you
sit down and it's like the amount of streaming services
and the amount of shows, and the amount of reviews
and the amount of opinions out there, it's just too much.
And so I get this decision paralysis where I just
can't make a decision on what movie to watch. And

(29:24):
I've even gotten to the point where I'll start it
and I'll be like, wait a second, let me, I'm
rethinking my decision. Let me try something else, and then
it just ruins your Friday night. So anyway, just pick
something to watch it. I think you'll like that one.
Let's go to Adam in Los Angeles. Adam, you're on
with Rich.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
Hi. Rich.

Speaker 9 (29:42):
I love your program. Thank you for all the great
advice that you've given other than to me. But I
had a question about So I'm fifty four, I work
at home. I do contracting work, compute a lot of
computer work, and I have of a business computer from
my employer, but I want to buy my own personal

(30:04):
computer because I do some side work from there. And
I am wondering about the difference between what they call
those larger tower pieces and the desktop PCs. So I'm
wondering about what's the difference that I can't find anywhere
that explains the difference between those.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Well, you call the right place, because I will explain.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
So it's funny, I just when you're talking, I realize
that we used to have sort of a third form factor,
Like right now everything is pretty much a tower, but
there used to be that like sort of flat desktop,
remember where you put the monitor, like.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
That giant monitor on top of that. But now most
of are are.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Either like a mini desktop, like a mini tower, or
I guess they sometimes they can go either way. They
can go flat on their side, or they can go
up and down, or you have those giant tower PCs.
And of course, if you know any gamers in your life,
they're the ones that always have the giant tower PCs.
And the reason for that is mostly power and expandability.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
So if you have a.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Big giant PC that has you know, a lot of
storage and space inside, you can add the peripherals that
you want, you can add the cooling that you want,
you can add more hard drives, you can add more
graphics cards, whatever you need to put in there. You
can pop this thing open and put those things in,
and it also looks pretty cool. So when you talk

(31:29):
about a smaller computer, these you know, these profile or
these slim line PCs, and of course down to a laptop,
there is not as much expandability, there's not as much power,
and you know they're gonna be quieter, they're gonna be
just just a smaller, more you know, power efficient kind
of thing. So it depends really what you need to do.

(31:51):
So are you doing any kind of like drafting work
or like architects stuff or anything that requires like a
lot of computing power.

Speaker 5 (31:58):
Not really.

Speaker 9 (31:59):
I am doing mostly working on a on a web
software or input information for a contractor that I work for,
and also from home, it's just typing documents, opening PDF
documents and reviewing items. So it's not it's not I

(32:20):
don't think I need heavy processing power for that portion,
although I will use it also to watch to stream
movies from Netflix and things, you know, in my off time.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Well okay, so but All the things you're talking about
are not You're not adding like a graphics card. You're
not adding like external a lot of different peripherals to
this thing. Like you're not going to be adding extra
fans or anything like that.

Speaker 9 (32:46):
No, No, I don't intend to see.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Okay, So I think you'll be fine with a with
you know, a smaller computer. I think the main thing
for everything that you're talking about, you want to get
good specs. And we were talking about this a little
bit earlier. You know, the specs that I think or
the baseline at this point for computers is you know,
sixteen gigabytes of memory, if not more, especially on a
on a desktop, you can do that for cheaper than

(33:09):
a laptop. You know, a nice size hard drive, you know,
maybe a five, twelve or terabyte if you want. But
the good news is with a with a desktop, you
can just add what you need later on, you know
with us B, so if you need more hard drive
you can add that. Usually with memory, some of the
computers you can pop them open and add. Sometimes it's

(33:29):
actually sort of attached to the motherboard if it's a
if it's a really inexpensive computer. But I think for
what you're talking about your needs, I think you'll be
fine with one of these computers that's kind of an
all in one. I always recommend Costco if you just
need a computer that's an all in one that has
pretty good specs.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
Costco.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
If you have a membership there, they generally have a
pretty good system and it's usually one or two, but
it's a it's a it's a very It's like you
get a little bit more for your money there than
you would get anywhere else.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
But I would look around. I don't think if.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
You're not building your own computer, you know, you don't
need all these uh this, these extras because if you're
not expanding it down the line, the stuff that you're
talking about is pretty much just basic computer work where
you're you're working on documents, you're watching movies, you're streaming.
But you do want decent specs for that stuff. So also,

(34:22):
you know, check out the process or that you're getting.
You know, you don't want to go with something like
a three, like a Core you know, Core I five,
maybe a Core I seven. You want something that's going
to be you know, that's gonna have some room to
breathe if you want to use this thing for a while,
but that's what I would do, and just you know, again,
go with the most the best specs that you can afford.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
I think is the best way to do that, and
I think you'll be fine. You know.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
The thing is with a lot of these computers, like
the dream goal of companies is to have what's called
like you know, almost like a dummy PC, where like
the PC is actually not doing anything, like there's almost
no process power whatsoever except just to run the Internet,
and then everything is taken from the cloud. And so
that's been kind of the dream of companies because it's

(35:10):
much easier to manage things in the cloud than it
is on a local system that needs to be updated
every couple of years. So good question, Adam, Thanks for
the call and appreciate the kind words too. Let's see
Roku data breach. Fifteen thousand accounts effected, so not a
ton of accounts here, but here's what you need to know.

(35:30):
The main takeaway here is that you should not be
reasoning your passwords. So Roku had a data breach between
December twenty eighth, twenty twenty three, and February twenty first,
twenty twenty four. So if you had an account and
something seems a little off, This might have happened to you.
So what happened was this was a credential stuffing, which
means the bad guys found these usernames and passwords somewhere

(35:55):
else on the open web, and then they tried them
on the Roku accounts and a bunch of them worked,
three hundred sixty three of them.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
And so what did they do.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
They got into these Roku accounts and they immediately purchased stuff.
They tried to subscribe to things, which I think is
really weird. So you're this is your goal as a
as a you know, online cyber criminal. You're trying to
subscribe to HBO Max on someone else's credit card. Like really, okay,
I mean, good for you, but it's kind of weird.
But Roku said they took a media action to secure

(36:23):
the affected accounts, which basically means they sent a reset
password email to those accounts and canceled any unauthorized subscription.
So check your credit card if you have anything that
got there from Roku. This might have happened to you,
and don't reuse your password. This is when it goes
bad when they find it and they use it on
a different website. You are listening to rich on Tech.

(36:48):
Welcome back to rich on Tech. Rich Demiro here hanging
out with you, talking technology at eighty eight rich one
oh one eight eight eight seven four to two four
one zero one one. I've got my kilt on Happy
Saint Patrick's Day weekend. One of my favorite meals of

(37:13):
the year corn beef and cabbage, and last year was
a bust. We made it and it was not good.
So this year we need to redo that and make
sure that it is good. But it's up in the
air at this point. So anyway, let's uh eight eight
eight rich one on one eight eight eight seven four
to two four one zero one.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Let's go to uh. Let's see Wayne in your Belinda. Wayne,
you're on with rich Hi.

Speaker 10 (37:41):
Rich, thank you for your show.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
First of all, hey, thanks for listening.

Speaker 10 (37:44):
Yeah, I got the I fall ten and the eleven
they both sixty four gigabye. So I do have a
sumto and I don't know how to tangle or empty
the stories.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Ah, okay, well it's a little tricky on the iPhone.
You have to have you plugged the what kind of
what kind of connector do you have on your iPhone.

Speaker 10 (38:09):
I have the Lightning Yes, oh you do?

Speaker 2 (38:12):
You have the newest one. Okay, so you've got the
Lightning and then what kind of thumb drive do you have?
Is it lightning?

Speaker 4 (38:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (38:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (38:18):
They both like yes, okay.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
So you plug it in and nothing happens. You open
up the files app and what happens?

Speaker 10 (38:24):
Uh? They have me downloaded the apps, which it's I
bought my amzone way back.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
And what app do they have download? Is it sand disk?

Speaker 10 (38:35):
No, it's not stand up brand, I think? Okay, so
they're swing into no external I'm the USB back at forth.
Kind of confused me. So there's the reason I call you.
And also possibly next maybe I need to operate to
find a larger storage. Bigger storage and battery life. The

(38:58):
battery life, there's really I also have the iPhone thirteen
a life.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Well okay, so just to look at the battery life
real quick. You can go into Settings battery and check
your battery health and see if that's okay, if it's
you know, if it's giving you trouble that it'll tell
you if the battery health is normal or not, and
if you're having issues with the battery life, which by
the way the iPhone has pretty incredible battery life. I

(39:26):
would check and see what is running down your battery.
So for me, I can see I've got Instagram using
up most of my battery, my home screen X and
then Chrome and then Google Photos background activities. So if
there's something on that list that is eating up all
your battery, you can go through and get rid of that. Now,
when it comes to offloading stuff from the iPhone to

(39:49):
the thumb drive, it's kind of tricky because there's not
really like a simple way to do that on the iPhone.
There are some apps that can help, the ones that
I know of that work with this. Now, you said
you got a third party thumb drive, so the only
way that you'd be able to move things over is
to kind of drag and drop them onto that drive.

(40:09):
So you can plug that drive into your into your iPhone.
It has to be formatted a special way for it
to show up on the iPhone, So according to the
Apple support website, you can format it as APFS, mac
OS extended, or an x fat or a fat thirty
two or a fat. My kids would laugh at the uh,

(40:32):
you know, at these hard drive descriptions. But once you
have it in those it would be able to would
be able to see those, you know, would be able
to recognize that. And then when you want to actually
put stuff from your phone onto that drive, you can
go into something like photos and select a whole bunch
of stuff and then copy it that way. But that's

(40:55):
going to be kind of tricky. So you would you would,
you know, select a bunch of photos and then you
can files and you would kind of look and see
like where you're saving it, and I would browse to
that actual little thumb drive.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
That's going to take you forever. That's not going to
be very easy.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
So the programs that I recommend the sand disc I
expand they have their own little app that will help
take pictures from your phone and put them off to
the drive. Pn Y also has that. So otherwise, if
you're if their app is not working that they gave you,
you're kind of out of look because you're you're at
the mercy of that app. So I would make sure

(41:30):
you gave the appropriate permissions to that app so that
it can look through these files and it can look
through the photos. But this is what happens when you
take a chance on a you know, on a random
brand name that you don't really know if it's going
to work if you get it on Amazon, So check
to make sure that the drive is formatted in the
proper format. That's what I would do first, and then
maybe uninstall this app, reinstall it and see if the

(41:54):
things will migrate over there. The other thing you could
do is use a third party program, something like Amazing,
which I really like, and that will help you look
at your phone in a much easier way. So there's
also I mean, you could connect your phone to a
computer and you can drag the photos over that way.
You can connect it to a Windows computer. I mean,
there's many ways you can do this. You can use

(42:15):
an app like Amazon Photos. It all depends on what
you want to get off of this phone onto somewhere else.
But I agree it is it is. It is an
issue because it's not the easiest thing to do. But
once you know how to do it and just tinker
a little bit, you should be able to do it.
Thanks for the call, Wayne, appreciate it. Let's go to

(42:35):
Robert in Roseville, Michigan. Robert, you're on with Rich.

Speaker 11 (42:40):
Hey, how you doing.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
I'm doing fantastic.

Speaker 11 (42:43):
I have never downloaded TikTok. But my question is is
this if it was created because I had an inkling
that they had created it the well, the purpose of
spying in the first place, But once it's on your phone,
and of course there's going to if I had created it,
I would create an algorithm where it would root itself

(43:07):
into the operating system of the phone. And even if
you remove the app, the phone is still infected. And
if you get another phone and synk the new phone
to it, it's also infected.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Well, that is a valid concern I know, and a
lot of people travel to China, people do have a
legitimate concern of the phone or device that they're using.
If you're connecting it to a network over there, you
are you are somewhat at risk with that device. Now,
I will say I do think that number one when

(43:41):
it comes to the iPhone, Robert, unless TikTok is really
really sly in how this thing is programmed, the iPhone
is nearly sandboxed with apps, so that means that apps
that are installed on the iPhone really can't access the
deep memory systems that they would be required to access

(44:02):
to do something like you're talking about now.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
On Android it is a little bit different.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
It can't access a lot more, although that's getting more
sandboxed as well, And so I do think these are
valid concerns. But I guess the bottom line is, you know,
if you downloaded TikTok at some point to your phone,
is your phone infected? Is it ruined forever? I don't
think so. I don't think that the app is that
nefarious as it is today, you know, as it stands.

(44:29):
But I will say that if there are people that
are deleting TikTok off their phone or getting rid of it,
TikTok does have some options. They do have a way
to download your data. So if you're curious what data
they have on you, they do allow you to request
a copy of that TikTok data. Now most of the
large tech companies are allowing this these days, and people
look into this stuff and it is pretty interesting. Like

(44:51):
I remember Facebook people were downloading their Facebook history and
they were kind of their eyes were open to how
much information Facebook has. TikTok says your may include but
it is not limited to your user name, your video history,
your comment history, and your privacy settings. That all sounds
pretty boring, but you know it could be interesting. So
you can go in the TikTok app, press profile menu,

(45:15):
settings in privacy account, download your data, and then request data. Now,
if you want to delete the TikTok app from your phone,
if you're worried about this thing, you can delete the app,
but that doesn't delete your account.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Remember these are two different things.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
When you delete an app on your phone that does
not delete your account, you still have to go in
and delete your account. So you would have to open
up the TikTok keep calling it tiptop TikTok app. Go
into the menu and settings in privacy under account there
is a deactivate or delete account, so you can deactivate
or delete the account. Robert, I do think it is

(45:49):
you know, there are valid concerns here, and I think
so much of this stuff that's happening around TikTok, there
is some concerns that are rooted in reality. And I
think these concerns are with all of the phones and
all of the apps that we have on our phones,
and then some of it is rooted in we just
don't know, and I think it's kind of wild to

(46:09):
imagine that something would be banned because we just don't know,
but that seems to be what is happening here? Eighty
eight rich one oh one eight eight eight seven four
to two four one zero one. Website for the show
richon Tech dot TV. There you can go to get
links to anything I mentioned on the show. If you
want to get my newsletter rich on Tech Newsletter, just

(46:33):
search it up on Google. You should get the first
link and you can sign up for the newsletter. And
today in the newsletter, I talked about just all of
the information that apps can collect on our phone. There
is a lot of it. All right, We'll have more
of your questions coming up after this. Plus I'll tell
you why Airbnb is banning security cameras in certain places,

(46:55):
and I'll tell you why Walmart is selling a MacBook
Air for its cheapest price yet you are listening to
rich on Tech. Welcome back to rich on Tech. Rich
DeMuro here hanging out with you Talking technology. Phone line
is eight eight eight rich one oh one eight eight

(47:16):
eight seven four to two four one zero one. If
you are in the market for a new MacBook Air
and you don't need something that is the latest, greatest,
and you don't want to spend a whole lot of money,
Walmart has a MacBook Air for six hundred and ninety
nine dollars. This is the first time that Walmart has

(47:37):
sold an Apple maclaptop directly. They've sold them on the
website in the past, but it hasn't been directly from
Walmart like it's been a third party listing. So they're
selling the base model M one MacBook Air online and
some stores will get it in store for six hundred
ninety nine dollars. That is fifty dollars cheaper than the

(48:00):
previous cheapest price on this laptop. So during the holidays,
this MacBook Air M one was basically seven hundred and
fifty dollars. I'm trying to figure out when this came out.
Let's see launch date. It's a couple of years ago,
this November twenty twenty, so it's about four years old.

(48:21):
But you know, here's the thing. The Apple products, especially
the M one chip, is really powerful. So I have
no problem recommending this if you're doing just simple things
like surfing the web, maybe some photos, maybe lightlight video editing.
It's basically an iPhone in a computer, so anything you
can do on the iPhone, you'd be able to do

(48:41):
on this thing. So six hundred ninety nine bucks. It's
in brand new condition, so again not a bad deal.
And this is kind of the start. I mean, Walmart
is a huge retailer and Apple is a very popular market,
so putting those two together, they're going to sell a
lot of these things. Airbnb is banning indoor security cameras,

(49:04):
so no more indoor security cameras in any listings globally,
regardless of the location of the camera, the purpose, or
even if it's on the listing. And if you have
an outdoor camera, those have to be disclosed before booking,
and you can't have those looking to the indoor spaces.
So you can't have like an outside camera that's looking
into the living room with the windows. And if there's

(49:26):
an outdoor area that comes with an expectation of privacy,
you can't have a camera there either. The example they
gave was sort of like an outdoor shower. If you're
at like an Airbnb that has that, you couldn't put
a camera there. I mean that makes sense. Also, noise
decibel monitors. Did you know that a lot of airbnbs
have these things? They monitor the noise level in the

(49:47):
airbnb so that the owner can figure out if there's
a party going on, because parties are also banned at airbnbs,
like big old house parties. You can have your friends
and family, maybe you know a couple people over, but
you can't have a giant, you know, rager. So those
are allowed in common spaces, but they also must be
disclosed on the listing and they can't record or transmit
sounds or conversations, so you can't say, well, I've got

(50:10):
this little two way speaker set up and I'm just
listening in for the sound level.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
No, no, no, you can't do that. It has to
be a decibel monitor.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
The updated policy takes effect on April thirtieth of this year,
so I think that's you know, I know, I understand
the need to monitor your place and keep it secure,
and video door bells and things like that are still fine,
and external cameras are still fine, but it's like it's
really it became this thing where like everyone that's staying

(50:39):
at an Airbnb is wondering if there's a hidden camera
in there, and that's concerning, and you definitely don't want
to be I don't know, it's just you want to
have privacy, but you also want to have protection for
your place. So Airbnb's got to ride these lines and
that's the that's the new reality there. Let's go to Mike.
Mike is in Riverside, California, Mic around with Rich.

Speaker 6 (51:03):
Hey, Rich, I'm a Christian.

Speaker 12 (51:04):
Was listening at the very beginning of your show with
the TikTok controversy.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
Sure, what makes you think that Instagram.

Speaker 6 (51:12):
And Facebook and the other.

Speaker 12 (51:14):
Social media apps they all sell our data to third parties?
What makes anybody think that China doesn't buy them from
third parties?

Speaker 1 (51:25):
And they probably do, and like everyone does, and so
I think that that is a valid concern, and that's
kind of why I went through the beginning of the
show to explain that, like, all these apps are collecting
very similar data, but the difference I think with China
number one, they've got it directly. And again it's a
country that you know, we're frontemies with and so that's

(51:45):
part of it. But also it's the compliance issue too.
So like our expert was saying, you know, these companies
that are based in China, if there's an issue, there's
no procedure they say, hey, you got to do this,
and they have to comply. We're here in the US.
We've seen example time and time again where these big
tech companies don't comply and they and they secure the data.

(52:08):
In fact, Apple and a lot of these tech companies
have been sort of what they've been doing with their
data is they've been encrypting it and throwing away the
key so that nobody has it. And that's smart because
well for them, because it takes them out of the mix,
right when someone says when they let's say, let's say
you got a ring video doorbell, and you end to

(52:28):
end encrypt that and nobody can access that except you,
And so if someone wants that video like Ring, couldn't
even hand that over because they don't have the key
to that. And so that's not what they're doing by default.
But you have the option as the owner of that
camera to do that, and that we're seeing that more
and more where the encryption levels are getting higher, which
is also kind of scary because there are some you know,

(52:49):
actual valid concerns of why we may need to tap
into some of this info. But as for Facebook and
you know, Instagram and all these other companies, I am
sure there's a ton of data flowing that way.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
I'm sure there's a lot of money being exchanged.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
But American companies are doing the same thing to us,
where you know, when you walk into a grocery store,
they know who you are, they know what you're buying,
they know what you watched on TV, they know what
you served on your phone, and they're mixing all those
things together to come up with a pretty good idea
of if you're going to walk into that store and
buy kitty litter or if you're going to buy diapers.

Speaker 6 (53:20):
And yeah, a real quick second question, why wasn't there
big up for when when my granddaughter and grandson we're
walking around with.

Speaker 12 (53:32):
Pokemon about fifteen years ago, which was totally a Chinese government.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Uh, Pokemon the game, the one that everyone's walking that
is they actually licensed that. That's actually a US company.
That's Niantic, which is spun out of Google. So that
is as far as I know, that's completely Niantic is is.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Yeah, that was spun out of Google.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
So now the interesting thing about Niantic is actually what
their mission was and why they came up with these
these things. And if you look at what Niantic's done
over the years, everything has to do with AR and mapping.
Their whole mo was collecting data about the US. They
were by people walking around. They were getting real life
and they still are real life information and live information

(54:19):
about the world around them, which could all be monetized.
Great question, Mike and Riverside, Thanks so much for the call.
Eighty to eight rich one on one. Coming up, we'll
talk about how your car is spying on you? Is
everyone spying? What's happening here? You're listening to rich on Tech.
out with you. The website for the show richon Tech

(54:40):
dot TV. The phone number eight eight eight rich one
O one eight eight eight seven four to two four
one zero one. Joining me now is Kashmir Hill, technology
reporter for the New York Times.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Welcome to the show. Cashmere.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
The headline this week automakers are sharing consumers driving behavior
with insurance companies. So explain how our cars are spying
on us?

Speaker 13 (55:15):
Yeah, So, cars today are essentially computers on wheels. You know,
they are usually Internet connected if you've turned on connected services,
and they have all kinds of sensors and cameras in them,
and so they can collect a lot of information about you.
I mean there's nice things about being Internet connected. You
can turn it on and off remotely, but it does

(55:36):
mean that your car can spy on you, and that
is what has happened to a lot of drivers, but
particularly those who drive a car made by General Motors,
which I'm sure you know if you're in one, but
you know Chevrolet, Cadillac, Corvette, Camaro GMC. If you have

(55:56):
one of those cars and you're enrolled in a program
called smart Drive, then your information is being collected how
far you drive, when and where you go on trips,
you're breaking your acceleration, you're speeding, and it is being
sold to data brokers who are sharing it with insurance
companies and that.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
Might make your ray go off.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
So okay, So there's a lot to unpack here because
there is so First off, the connected cars. So I
was at a data conference years ago and they had
a bunch of reps from different car companies, and one
of the car makers said to me when I asked,
I said, you know, because why is this company at
a data conference, right? And they said, oh, the amount
of data that we collect from your car is people

(56:38):
would be amazed if they knew about it. And I said, wait,
what like, you're collecting data on my car and they said, yeah,
and so some of that is going back to the companies,
like the car companies, and they're not really sharing that,
but this is where they are actually sharing it without
us knowing.

Speaker 4 (56:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (56:55):
I mean so a lot of the car companies have
in the last couple of years put a service center
app that's called driver Scoring or driver Feedback, and in
the case of General Motors it's called Smart Driver, and
it's a way for you to to to basically like
hear whether you're a good driver or not, and it'll
tell you, you know, be gentler on the brakes or

(57:15):
you know, uh, don't don't be so rough on your accelerator.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Like it's like a report card for how you drive exactly.

Speaker 13 (57:23):
And with General Motors they made it really fun, like
you could get digital badges like break.

Speaker 14 (57:28):
Genius and speed Limit Hero.

Speaker 13 (57:31):
But what was in the fine print with some automakers
like Honda in Kia, but not so much with General Motors,
is that once you turn this feature on, your data
was actually going to either Lexus Nexus Risk Solution or
another another data broker called Barrisk, and they in many
cases were the one that were giving you the score.

(57:54):
They were like running the program, but to you it
just looked like your automaker was doing it.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
So it's like a credit report for your driving, for your.

Speaker 14 (58:01):
Yeah, it's exactly.

Speaker 13 (58:02):
And and in the case of General Motors, some people
said they didn't even turn on Smart Driver, they didn't
enroll it if they don't understand how they were enrolled
in it, like it may have happened at the dealership,
you know, when you're going through all that paperwork and
the you're signing lots of things that maybe it got
turned on then.

Speaker 14 (58:17):
But once it was turned on, these data brokers were
getting your data. And then insurance companies go to these
data brokers, like when you're.

Speaker 13 (58:23):
Trying to get quotes for auto insurance or renewing your policy.
These are who the intern companies go to to figure out,
you know, how they should should price your policy.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Oh wow, And so they get this information and they
notice that you're a heartbreaker or a speeder, and then
all of a sudden, your insurance price goes up.

Speaker 4 (58:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (58:46):
I mean that's the way I discovered this story is
that I decided this year I really want to look
into what it means that cars are connected now and
that are so much data is kind of leaving our cars.

Speaker 14 (58:55):
And so I was hanging out in car forums online.
It's a there's a lot of people talking about their car.

Speaker 13 (59:01):
Online, and I was seeing these reports from people who
drove like Chevrolet Bolts and Camaros and Corvettes that their
insurance was going up by like twenty percent, fifty percent,
sometimes doubled. And when they'd asked the insurance agent why,
the agent would say, it's your Lexus Nexus report. You
should go pull it and so you can request this

(59:22):
under the Fair Credit Reporting Act.

Speaker 14 (59:24):
And when they would get the report from Lexus Nexus,
it would have hundreds of pages of every trip they
had taken in their car over the last six months.
And they were just astounded. They had no idea that
that was there. And when they looked at who shared it,
it was General Motors.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
That is so wild.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
The interesting thing here to me is that we've seen
ads on TV for these insurance company programs where you
would install something in your car or use your phone
as kind of a intermediary where it monitors you're driving
to give you a better rate on your insurance. Right
like if you only drive a certain amount or if
you're a safe driver. And people have been pretty hesitant

(01:00:05):
to sign up for those programs, I would assume, so
to have this done in kind of a roundabout way
where you're not even realizing that you're enrolled in that
is even worse.

Speaker 14 (01:00:15):
Yeah, that's those kind of insurance programs.

Speaker 13 (01:00:17):
It's called usage based insurance, and those have been around
for at least a decade now.

Speaker 14 (01:00:22):
And you do it very knowingly.

Speaker 13 (01:00:23):
You know, you'd get a dongle and you plug it
into your car, or you download a smartphone app and usually, yeah,
you get a discount on your premium. And the thing
is that I talked to this one professor for the
story and he was very in favor of usage based insurance.
He said, when people sign up for these programs, the
impact on safety is enormous. People who know they are

(01:00:45):
monitored are better drivers.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
Yeah, that makes sense, But.

Speaker 13 (01:00:48):
The problem with what General Motors and these other automakers
are doing is that the people didn't realize that they
were being monitored and how they drove was going to
impact their insurance. So you don't get that that kind
of benefit to public safety.

Speaker 14 (01:01:02):
You just have these people getting charged more.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
I mean in one way, you're getting the real life
picture of how these people drive, and it makes sense
that they would have to pay more if they're an
aggressive driver. But on the flip side, if people do
truly mine their manners when they are knowing they're being monitored,
then that's better for everyone because of the safety aspect.

Speaker 13 (01:01:24):
Yeah, and then there's this other question of how reliable
is this data that's kind of being siphoned from our car?
The drivers I talk to and everybody overestimates how good
a driver they are. So the people I talked to said, hey,
I'm a safe driver. You know, I am not overly aggressive.
I have not been in an accident, like you know,
I do speed sometimes, I mean who honestly, who doesn't.

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
You know?

Speaker 14 (01:01:49):
I do break sometimes. I have fun if I'm alone
on the road.

Speaker 13 (01:01:53):
But they said, you know, generally that they weren't aggressive drivers,
and they were. They were upset that they're their insurance
rates were going up when it wasn't based on, you know,
that they'd gotten an accent or done something that really
should justify the insurance going up.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
What were the car company's response to your questions? What
did GM say about this?

Speaker 4 (01:02:14):
So?

Speaker 13 (01:02:14):
GM said that people consent to this program, that they
felt that they were doing this with the full awareness
of drivers.

Speaker 14 (01:02:24):
And you know, I said, you're not.

Speaker 13 (01:02:26):
You know, I'm talking to these drivers who didn't know
this was happening, some drivers who didn't even enroll in
Smart Driver. And what they said is that people opt
in three times. The first time is when they enroll
in on Star, which is the Connected services suite for
GM cars, said, the second time is when they turned
on Smart Driver, which they did either in the app
or at the at the dealership. And the third time

(01:02:50):
is when what I was talking about earlier, when they're
shopping for insurance. Generally an insurance company will tell you,
you know, we would like to request third part Aready
reports about you. And when those people said yes to that,
they may not have realized it, but that was kind
of opening opening the door to all of this this

(01:03:11):
telematics data like flowing over to the insurance company. So
GM said, you know, we don't think we're doing anything wrong.
We think this helps people to be bad drivers. Yeah,
I was surprised, and they also said they and I said, well,
where do you disclose it? Like I actually have a
Chevrolet bolt which is made by GM, and so I
downloaded the my Chevrolet app, I connected my car to

(01:03:32):
the app, and then I looked at the enrollment for
smart Driver and all it said was like develop better
driving habits, like get digital badges. It didn't say anything
about Alexis Nexus and Barisk are going to get all
your driving data.

Speaker 14 (01:03:45):
And I said, where is this disclosed to people?

Speaker 13 (01:03:47):
And the spokeswoman pointed to the privacy policy for on Start. Yeah,
everyononder and then I she says, it's under third parties data.

Speaker 14 (01:03:58):
We share a third party.

Speaker 13 (01:03:59):
So I go read that and it's like, yeah, sometimes
GM has has, you know, deals with third parties like
Serious XM. You know they're in your car and they're
going to get data for your car. And it didn't
say anything about Lexus Nexus or Varus or how this
is going to go to insurance company. So there was
a class action lawsuit filed this week. I suspect the
Federal Trade Commission is investigating. I do think there's going

(01:04:22):
to be consequences for how they are running this program.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
Okay, real quick, I've got about thirty seconds. What do
you think someone does to check if they're in one
of these things?

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Or what should they do.

Speaker 13 (01:04:32):
Yeah, So check your app if you have a connected
car app, see if this thing is turned on, and
go to Lexus Nexus, go to Varis. You can actually
request your consumer file and you should definitely do that.

Speaker 14 (01:04:43):
And CEEFA is you're driving data leaking out there?

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
All right, Cashmere Hill, technology reporter for the New York Times.
I'll link up the article on the website rich on
tech dot tv. In the show notes, thanks so much
for joining me today. Appreciate it.

Speaker 14 (01:04:56):
Oh my pleasure.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
All right, eighty eight rich one on one eight eight
eight seven four to two four one zero one.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Give me a call if you have a question about technology.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
Coming up next, I'll tell you about the new social
media scam where people are losing a lot of money.
You are listening to rich on Tech. Welcome back to
rich on Tech. This is the tech show where I
talk about the tech stuff I think you should know about.
It's also the place where I answer your questions. Phone

(01:05:25):
lines are triple eight rich one oh one eight eight
eight seven four to two four one zero one eight
eight eight seven four to two four one zero one,
the website richon tech dot tv, and don't forget to
sign up for a newsletter. Just search Rich on tech
newsletter on uh Google and you should find it. Let's

(01:05:49):
go to Mike in Royal Oak, Michigan. Mike, you're on with.

Speaker 7 (01:05:54):
Rich another one in Michigan.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
Yeah, we must have a good station there.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
Nine times there we go.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Thanks, thanks for listening there.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
It's a very it's a good station. And I came
across you a little while ago. I gotta tell you,
I really enjoyed the show. It's very informative. You explained
things very simply, and it makes me take on more
tasks than I think I was available to do.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
Well, keep talking, Mike, I appreciate it. Just keep going.
We have another hour, so I'll let you take the floor.

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
Kidding, I'll tell you this. I went on your website
and the notes that you take from every uh all
of your shows are real helpful. Because I was actually
going back. I was able to go back to a
couple of things that you talked about, and I've been
able to use those to my business.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
So perfect.

Speaker 3 (01:06:48):
Really, it's it's a great it's a very uh useful.

Speaker 7 (01:06:54):
Show.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
Is that is the goal.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
The entire goal is to be helpful, and I'm so
glad that you are figuring that out and other people
as well.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
So what can I help you with today?

Speaker 3 (01:07:05):
Well, I am a newbie technology wise, and my sister
has an old Galaxy G seven G. She uses it
as a phone and also through our business for she
takes a lot of photographs and videos. We own a
jewelry store, a jewelry store, okay, and we're always putting
pictures off and she's always taking several photos, doctoring them

(01:07:25):
so we can put them up on Facebook and so forth.
The phone's got to be five six years old. There's
sixteen gigabytes on an internal storage. I went through and
I would periodically pull all the data or all the photos,
the images, what I could. I would jump it out
of her treate on her PC to clear it up

(01:07:46):
because right now internally it's fifteen point one gigs are
used to run the phone.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
Oh wow, and only has sixteen gigs total. Yeah. Oh,
so you're always running up against the clock there.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
Yeah. So what I did is I pulled everything off
the phone that I could that were but videos or
or photos. I put them on the SD card on
it or pulled them off the phone. I went through
and cleared the cash on every one of the apps
in there, some of them that I knew of. I
was able to either uninstall or clear the data on them,
or just do a four stop. And right now.

Speaker 15 (01:08:20):
What I'm planning on doing is removing the context apps
and then sending the phone back to factory spects, because
I was told that maybe when she jammed all those
photos and stuff in memory, it might just be constantly
filled and it won't be able to clear that through
the cash.

Speaker 3 (01:08:35):
What would you suggest, Well.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
In the in the long in the longer term, I'd
suggest you probably got to get a phone with more memory.
In the short term, does this take a memory card?

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
Do you know?

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
It has an SD card? But nothing can go on it.
It's all, you know, nothing transfers over, it's all stuck
in the internal.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
Okay, well there there should be.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
Gosh, it's been a while since I used a phone
with a with a with an SD card. But you
should be able to set the default on the camera
to where it saves to save to the.

Speaker 3 (01:09:10):
That is on that photos and videos go to the
s Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
Okay, so photos and videos go to the SD card,
right the other stuff stays on the internals. In that case,
I mean the with the system memory taking or the
system settings taking up fifteen gigs on a sixteen gigabyte phone.

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
That's wild. And I'm looking here.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
So if you go into settings and then you go
into whereas it here, I just had it settings device
Care and then it says storage, that'll give you, you know,
if you're using an Android phone is specifically Samsung Settings
and then device care and then storage. That will give

(01:09:52):
you an idea of what is taking up your storage.
So these Samsungs do a really good job of this.
I think on iPhone it's a little bit trickier because
they try to, you know, make this stuff a little
bit tougher to find. But on Samsung is really easy.
So I can see I've got forty seven percent used
right now. It gives me a breakdown of videos, images,
installation files, audio files, documents, compressed files, apps, system. Now

(01:10:15):
my system takes up sixteen gigabytes just like you said,
other files and then trash and then there's so and
then there's some things underneath that will that you can do.
So you can delete the trash, which on my phone
is three gigs. Unused apps. You can uninstall apps that
you haven't used in thirty days, duplicate files you can
get rid of those, and then large files. So that's

(01:10:37):
one way of kind of going through and seeing if
there's anything you've missed. I think, Mike, you're on to
the right You're onto the right kind of path with
reformatting that phone to see what you can do. Because
what I would do is, if you want to keep
using this phone, just reform at it, you know, factory
reset it. That'll get everything back to the factory. You've

(01:10:57):
got that SD card in there to take the picture,
So if you're using this phone primarily as a camera
to take pictures of this jewelry, then if the photos
are going to the external memory, you're going to be
just fine. But I would not install any new apps
on this phone. I would not do anything extra on
this thing because you're already out of memory before you
even start. So in the long term, I'd probably look

(01:11:20):
at maybe getting a device that has a little bit
more storage, just because this is an older device and
it definitely seems like you know that's an issue. But
if you're only using it to take pictures, like I said,
then I think you're going to be just fine by
factory resetting it and then just you know, setting it
up from scratch and making sure that you don't install

(01:11:40):
anything new and making sure that the photos go to
the external memory card. Or you can install if you're
like an Amazon Prime member, you can install their Amazon
Photos app and all your photos can go there and
then you can just delete the photos once they go there,
and that's free unlimited photo storage. If you're an Amazon
Prime member, that's Amazon Photos.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
The other thing you do.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
Google makes a great app called the Files by Google App,
and so I would download that on this device and
use that before you format it just kind of see
you can clean up your phone. They've got a lot
of different things on there to help you clean up
your phone. And that is made directly by Google. It's
called Files by Google. And the way you can tell
it's the official one, look at the publisher.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
It should say.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
Google LLC when you look it up in the Google
Play Store. Because there's a lot of cleaner apps, there's
a lot of helper apps, but you want to get
the one that is directly by Google. Mike, thanks so
much for the kind words there in Royal Oak, Michigan.
Appreciate it and hopefully you can get that sorted out
eight to eight rich one on one eight eight eight
seven four to two four one zero one. Find me

(01:12:45):
online at rich on Tech. I'll take more of your
calls and tell you about this social media investment scam
that actually has a lot of victims.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
Coming up next, well.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
Come to another hour of rich on Tech. Rich DeMuro
here hanging out with you, talking technology at eight and
eight rich one O one eight eight eight seven four
to two four one zero one. The website for the
show rich on Tech dot TV. I'm talking about the

(01:13:20):
newsletter a lot. You can subscribe just search on Google
rich on Tech Newsletter because number one, I love it.
I love having that direct connection to you to give
you all of the stuff that I talk about on
a weekly basis, all the things I present on TV,
on the radio, my best tech tips, and you know,
just everything all in one place. And it's a really
good resource for that. So sign up and you can

(01:13:43):
get that direct your inbox, and it's very easy to
sign up for. So just go to the website and
and or search on Google rich on Tech Newsletter and
you should be able to do just that. And I'm
putting a lot of effort into it. That's my main thing.
Right now, it's just a you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
Know, all these social media company are great.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
You know, I've got Facebook, I've got Instagram, I've got Twitter,
but it's very discombobulated, and I feel like when I
sit down and just create that newsletter every week, it's
all of like the main things I think you should know,
kind of like this show. Isn't that what I say?
This is the tech stuff I think you should know about.
That's really what I'm doing my newsletter as well. But
it goes even further because I'll you know, it's all

(01:14:21):
the links and things just a little like today, I
was using this website and I was like, oh, I
should include that in the newsletter. And it's just a
handy little website stuff like that. Let's go to uh Tom,
Let's see here.

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
Line four. Tom is in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. Did I
say that right that? I had to look it up.

Speaker 1 (01:14:41):
I I have seen this name a million times and
I didn't know how to pronounce it.

Speaker 4 (01:14:46):
That's French. Clear Water there we go?

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
Is there clear water? There? There is very nice? Well,
what can I help you with?

Speaker 13 (01:14:54):
So?

Speaker 4 (01:14:54):
I've got an old motor role with DROI turbo.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
Oh, one of my favorite you know. I okay, sorry
I interrupted you on.

Speaker 4 (01:15:02):
That as hands down on the best I ever used.

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
I switched to Android from an iPhone because of the
artist helt me think about this. I'm trying to remember.
That was the first phone that had turn by turn
GPS navigation through Google Maps, and so I went out.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
I waited in line to buy that phone. Anyway, keep going,
phenomenal phone.

Speaker 4 (01:15:20):
And it took a beating, but anyways I got. I
got a Doge wallet on there, like the old Doge wallet,
like before Dolage was anything. It's got about a half
or five hundred thousand Dolge in it. But I've got
a pattern lock on it. And I don't want to
get into the reason why I would put a pattern
lock on it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
Well back in the day that we did, that's what
we did. We put pattern locks.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
So you're talking five hundred thousand doze coins is at
fourteen cents about seventy thousand bucks.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
Does that sound about right someplace in there?

Speaker 5 (01:15:53):
Ye?

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
Oh my gosh. And big cod Crypto in general has
been just on fire recently.

Speaker 4 (01:16:01):
So last month it's just it's just breathed.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
I mean, you're talking one month for dose up sixty
six percent, one year, ninety seven percent up. Now we're
talking fourteen cents for a coin. But still this is
if you've got so many.

Speaker 4 (01:16:18):
Of them for all of it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
Oh my gosh, okay, so wait, this phone is locked
and you can't access this.

Speaker 3 (01:16:24):
I can't access I forgot the pattern.

Speaker 4 (01:16:27):
I forgot the pattern. And it's the old dodwallet that
you'd never registered. So there's no name on it, there's
no email addressed to it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:33):
Oh my gosh. Okay, so uh, let's see. So this
is a droid turbo, so there is there, there may be,
and there may be.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
One way that you can do this.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
So number one, if have you tried a bunch of
different patterns and does it lock you out after a
certain point?

Speaker 10 (01:16:52):
Yeah, and it.

Speaker 4 (01:16:53):
Gets and I haven't. So the last time I did it,
I got to the pattern number nine where so it
was going to factory reset next and I haven't tried
unlock it now in like six months. Okay, there is
a safe start mode on it, but I can't get
it to go into it. But even if I could,
I don't even know if that safe start has you know,
if I'm able to act as the map or the app.

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
No, the safe start well, yeah, a safe yeah, but
you'd still need to unlock the phone.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
It doesn't just go into it. You'd still have to
unlock it.

Speaker 4 (01:17:21):
And that's yeah, but I can't get it to go
into that anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:17:23):
Right, and then the other things are obviously to you know,
all the other solutions would be to just format it
to get it, you know, you know, back to factory,
but that would ruin this, uh situation. So the only
thing is that I'm just looking up some information here.
So back in the day, Google used to let you
reset your pattern with certain versions of Android, so version

(01:17:46):
four point four and older. Now, this is the motoroladroid,
you said, and according to.

Speaker 3 (01:17:52):
That on there.

Speaker 4 (01:17:54):
Yeah, and I know Deak what you're talking about. But
the problem is my Google account doesn't recognize that bone.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
Your Google account.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
So when you try so, so you've gotten the message
where it says forgot uh and log and recover with
Google account and it won't let you recover.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
Yep, oh gosh, it's.

Speaker 4 (01:18:12):
Not It's not listed on my account anymore. Is that
being an active?

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
Okay, Well, here's what you have to do.

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
You've got to go on chat ebt and you've got
to say, I've got a pattern I need to unlock
on this phone. Give me the top most popular patterns,
the first uh, the first one hundred most popular patterns,
and you have to try five of those a day.

Speaker 2 (01:18:34):
This is your job.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
This is your full time job, because once you get
to nine, it's gonna say, you know, we got to
reset this phone.

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
But you have you have to really did you set
up this phone?

Speaker 4 (01:18:48):
I did? I did, and you know what I I
never so I actually never put a never put a
lock on any of my phones ever.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
But you did for this one because you had the
doze on it. You wanted to secure it.

Speaker 4 (01:18:58):
No, that's actually and that's not might even put the
lock on there. I actually had opened up my house
to some unfortunate people. Will leave it at that, and uh,
like they were, they started stealing some of my stuff,
so I threw a lock on it. Oh well, you
know while I was waiting to get them out of
the house. And then in between that, I bought a

(01:19:19):
new phone, and I just never never thought about it
until you know, doats took off. I knew that doage
was on there. I completely forgot I ever put the
pattern lock on it oh like four years later like
dogs started scream. Then I goes like, all right, what
do I do? Now?

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
Well, here's the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:19:35):
So I'm kind of joking about the chat GPT stuff,
but I do think you need to try a couple
of patterns that you think might be it. Because I'm
looking at this little icon on the website, and I'm
looking at the pattern screen, which was very prominent and
Android for a very long time, and I can remember
like some of the patterns that I used to use,
Like when I visualize it, I'm like, oh yeah, I
used to use this kind of like pattern. So you know,

(01:19:57):
stare at the screen, see if you can come up
with something and try a couple and just when that
thing unlocks, you're you're gonna have a u a very
interesting reaction.

Speaker 2 (01:20:05):
So make sure you have a camera recording yourself.

Speaker 4 (01:20:07):
But you know, I know there's gotta there's gotta be
a way because I mean, I know, like like the
government or the police department or the FBI, they have
to have a way to bypass.

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
Well there, okay, so there is a there is a device.
Oh my gosh, I'm trying to remember what it's called.
The gray uh said gray scale. Oh my gosh, hold on,
it's a device that they use to unlock phones. Hold on,
so yes, there is something. Uh, oh my gosh, they
used it. Uh gosh, I gotta remember what the name is.

(01:20:42):
It's not coming to me, but it's something gray. It's
like either gray lock or gray great device to unlocked phones.
I've got a great key. There you go, so uh,
there you go, great key, and you may be able
to find one of these things are somehow Now these
are sold I think to law enforcement, but this is

(01:21:05):
you know, that's just have you heard of that before?
All right, So Tom, you got to do your homework.
Check out great key. I don't know, make some friends
with the uh, with the law enforcement in your area.
See if they have one of these things and give
them a cut. If they can unlock this.

Speaker 2 (01:21:18):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:21:18):
I don't know if that's how it works, but uh,
look up great key, try the coach. But I feel
for you, and in having this on the show, maybe
someone by you know, will email me and be like, rich,
this is how you do it, and I will pass
it on to you. So Tom, good luck with this
with this And I feel for you, but I mean

(01:21:39):
you had good taste in phones.

Speaker 4 (01:21:42):
One of the best cameras I've ever used.

Speaker 2 (01:21:45):
Thanks for the call today.

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
I appreciate it, and please keep us updated because that's
that's one of the wildest things I've heard. But the
takeaway when you set up an account, and I know
that Tom mentioned that there is no sort of way
to save this, but there are things called covery keys,
and especially if you're setting up crypto. Here's what we
all do, and I've been guilty of this. You set
something up really fast and you just flow, you fly

(01:22:08):
through all those screens that are like, hey, do you
want to do this? You want to do this, you
want to do that, here's the recovery code, and you
just say whatever, I'm never gonna need that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:14):
But when you see.

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
Something that says do you want to you know, especially
when you set up like two factor authentication or a password.
You know, password resets are pretty easy to do, but
some of these accounts have a little bit stronger protection,
especially when you set up that two factor authentication, and
the only way to get access to that account if
you forget your two factor, or you lose that device,
or you somehow lose access to that code is something.

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
Called a recovery code.

Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
So if you ever get if you ever presented a
recovery code, sometimes it'll even give you like a PDF
print out. It's like, print this out, keep it in
a safe place. That is the only way you'll be
able to get back into your accounts. Eighty eight rich
one oh one eight eight eight seven four to two
four one zero one. Coming up, I'll tell you about
this social media investment scam. I'll tell you how Google

(01:23:01):
Chrome is stepping up security. And we're going to talk
about Wi Fi seven. You're probably going to be hearing
more about it. We've got great guests to explain what
we need to know about Wi Fi seven. You are
listening to rich on Tech. Welcome back to rich on Tech.

(01:23:21):
I just wanted to comment real quick on the last
caller in, uh, Michigan or Wisconsin rather, or wasn't Michigan.

Speaker 2 (01:23:29):
I don't know. They were both nice.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
But you know when people say that they like this show,
the funny thing is this show there's nothing to it.
It's me doing the tech show that I want to
listen to. I just want to listen to the tech
news of the week, the interesting stuff to know what
I missed. I want to hear, you know, the common
issues people are having so I can avoid them, or
when I run into that, I can understand it. And

(01:23:55):
I just you know, it's just smart and interesting and
that's it. And then have guests that like I learned
from that's it. There's no magic formulation to this show,
and so I'm glad that you know, people are taking
a liking to it. But it's very very easy. It's
just the show I want to listen to. And believe me,
that's you know, that's it's pretty simple. Let's go to
Gary in Irvine.

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
Gary. You're on with Rich.

Speaker 7 (01:24:19):
Hi, Rich, how are you doing?

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
I am doing fantastic. What can I help you?

Speaker 7 (01:24:22):
As I have a Windows ten machine and there's about
eighteen three hundred emails on there, and there's about six
people that have sent me some like legal documents and
that I need to move out of there and put
them into a folder or a file or something and

(01:24:43):
then erase the rest of them. And I was wondering
how I would go about doing that without trying to
lose any of the documents on the way. I know
it's pretty simple and I'm not too savvy at this,
but if you could give me some direction, that'd be great.

Speaker 1 (01:24:58):
Are you using Outlook? How what's the email program? Is
it like a proprietary program?

Speaker 7 (01:25:03):
The email is through Cox Cable?

Speaker 1 (01:25:06):
Okay, so is it a web mail program then yeah, okay,
So what I would do is I would get this.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
So I don't know if Cox has.

Speaker 1 (01:25:15):
The ability to sort by attachments, Like you basically need
to do a search by anything that has an attachment.
So for instance, on Gmail, if you go into the
search bar, you click has attachment, then it will start
to show you all the emails that has have an attachment.

(01:25:36):
Now are these emails from a specific person?

Speaker 7 (01:25:39):
They're from like six different people, and they're basically all
lawyers and some title company people that I need to okay,
keep those.

Speaker 1 (01:25:49):
I mean, it's this is not very tough to do.
It's just it could be a little time consuming, but
it's it's pretty simple. So I would first off, go
to the website, go to the webmail site and find,
you know, get the six people's email addresses, put them
in a little notepad document, and then what you want
to do is you want to paste their email into
the search bar. And so once you paste it in there,

(01:26:09):
that should give you a list of all the emails
that they've sent you. Now it could be hundreds, could
be thousands, whatever. But then you want to narrow down
by a search filter, and you want to filter by
has attachment, and if they allow you to just narrow
down even more by just PDF or something like that,
you can go that route. And then once you do that,
you should if you say there's six documents or eight

(01:26:30):
documents that you need, you could just go ahead and
manually download those.

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
So that's one way.

Speaker 1 (01:26:34):
That's the easiest way, that's going to be kind of
like the most straightforward using the tools you already have.
Now you can also use external tools. So for instance,
you can get like a program that downloads all of
these email attachments. And so there are some programs that

(01:26:56):
will download all of these email attachments for you, and
you may have to pay for them, but you know,
I would look for something like a mail attachment downloader. Okay,
So that's one option, and so you go in there,
you put your email in there, and it will help
you download all of the attachments from that email account.

Speaker 2 (01:27:16):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
Now, the one I'm looking at here is a free
for personal use. It's completely free. So this is I'll
put this in the list show notes. But it's called
gear Mage Mail Attachment Downloader Free Edition, and you basically
put in your email address and it will go in
and it'll find all the attachments and it will download them.

(01:27:37):
And it looks like there are filters as well, so
you can put in the filters for the email addresses
that you want to get those attachments from. And then
there's also Email Attachment Extractor software and so that's similar
to what I just mentioned, but that's separate software. Or
it may be a plugin, but I don't think the
plugins will work for you. So I think it's going
to be either a manual job or you're going to

(01:27:59):
get one of these programs to help you do it.
I personally would look at this Mail Attachment Downloader program.
This looks like it works pretty well. The only main
thing you have to be concerned about is privacy because
you do have to hand over your your credentials to
this email account to this downloader, so just you know,
make sure that it's legit. But i'll put that in

(01:28:20):
the show notes. I think it's possible to do. I
think it's it's you know, it's a little bit of
a Saturday project. But I think these programs will make
it pretty easy.

Speaker 2 (01:28:28):
Does that help?

Speaker 7 (01:28:30):
And then and then also yes it did help. Also
their cuts is changing over their email service. I guess
to Yahoo. Okay, yeah, hopefully that I was going to
get this done before they did it, because I know
something's going to happen and lose everything.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
Yeah, I would, I would switch it. I would if
you can.

Speaker 1 (01:28:52):
I always recommend that you use like a third party service,
so if you can, since you're going to be switching this,
you might want to just download all these email and
then switch to something like a Gmail or an Outlook
or something like that, because or you can do you know,
you can go on a website and pay you know,
twenty bucks and get your own email address. But you know,
I might just go with Gmail because it's a lot easier,

(01:29:13):
and you could you can have Gmail go in and
fetch all these emails from there as well, So it
might be it might just be easier to get to
get rid of this because the problem with having the
Cox email is that you know what happens when you
get rid of this, like how long do they give
you to continue using that email after you're done paying
with their service, But it sounds like you've got quite
the job ahead. I think focus on the email attachments first,

(01:29:37):
and then you know, when they do make that switch over,
there may be an opportunity where they say, hey, here's
how you can download all your emails from this service,
and maybe just download them and be done and switch
to something like Gmail. Great question, Gary, I'll link up
the tools that I mentioned on the website. Rich on
tech dot TV. This is show sixty three, so just
look for the notes for show sixty three. All right,

(01:30:00):
real quick before we go to break here. Google Chrome
has a new they're stepping up their real time privacy protection.

Speaker 2 (01:30:08):
So when you click a URL on Google Chrome.

Speaker 1 (01:30:10):
Instead of checking the site every half an hour, they're
now checking it in real time. So they say this
is going to block twenty five percent more phishing attempts.

Speaker 2 (01:30:19):
Basically, if you're using Google Chrome, that's a good thing.

Speaker 1 (01:30:21):
All right, Coming up, we're gonna talk why FI seven.
What you need to know you're listening to Rich on Tech.
out with you, talking technology website richon tech dot tv.
You can find me on social media. You guessed it,

(01:30:43):
Rich on tech. Dwight Silverman is a freelance tech columnist
for the Houston Chronicle and UH recently he wrote about
why five seven this is the newest, latest, greatest flavor
of Wi Fi and you're probably gonna be hearing a
lot of it in the upcoming weeks and months, So
I thought it'd be a good idea to kind of

(01:31:03):
give you a little bit of information about it. So
let's bring Dwight on and talk about WiFi seven. Dwight,
welcome to the show.

Speaker 16 (01:31:10):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:31:11):
Rich So your second time on the show, so welcome back.
And how are things going there in Houston? So you
were full time for many many years, you did a
column you wrote, you had this like I'm sure very
strict deadline for your column and now your freelance which
is probably a little bit nicer.

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
So how are things going.

Speaker 16 (01:31:31):
Things are going great. I'm still doing that same column.
I left for about twenty minutes to work for Forbes
and decided not I didn't want to do that, so
I retired and I'm doing this weekly still. My editors
would still tell you that I have a pretty strong deadline,
and this particular piece on Wi Fi seven actually ran

(01:31:56):
in Jared Newman's Advisorator newsletter. Oh okay, okay, I had
done I had done a version of it for the Chronicle,
but this one is much more detailed. It's a paid newsletter,
but I pay for it. To me, it's worth it,
and it's the kind of newsletter I would do if
I was doing one myself.

Speaker 1 (01:32:15):
Yeah, Jared does a great job. He's been on the show.
I think he's actually been on the show the most
out of anyone. So let's talk about Wi Fi. So
what is WiFi seven?

Speaker 16 (01:32:23):
First off, so, Wi Fi seven is the next generation
of the Wi Fi protocol. It's what most people who
have Internet in their homes allows it to come to
their devices wirelessly. It has been for the past several years.
It's getting it has gotten much more robust, much faster.

(01:32:47):
In the In the newsletter piece I wrote, I start
out talking about Wi Fi five, and then six and
then six e. And the important thing about Wi Fi
six to six E is that Wi Fi six boosted
speeds and made things much more reliable. Wi Fi six

(01:33:09):
E tacked onto, kind of bolted onto Wi Fi six
a whole new frequency, these six gigahertz frequency, and this
allows for much faster speeds, much faster, much faster connections.

(01:33:30):
But the one problem with it is is that both
the five gigaherts and the six gigahertz bands don't have
much range. So modern Wi Fi today has still keeps
that old two point four gigahertz frequency around. It travels far,
but doesn't isn't as fast. Wi Fi seven takes everything

(01:33:52):
that's in six and six E and then makes it
just that much better. It has two particular feeatures that
make it much more reliable, that make it better when
you have a lot of devices in your home, and
makes it easier for you to roam from one part

(01:34:12):
of your house or your business to another.

Speaker 1 (01:34:16):
So you do think there will be a noticeable difference,
because you know, I feel like we hear how Wi
Fi just keeps getting better, and then people still have
dead zones and you know dropouts.

Speaker 16 (01:34:26):
Well, and it's you know, for those people who have
dead zones and dropouts probably have not investigated some of
the latest technologies. So, for example, mesh network routers such
as Amazon's Eero or TPE links Deco set up pretty
much eliminate dead spots when you set them up properly.

(01:34:49):
In the case of in the case of Wi Fi seven, yes,
there are still these multiple router mesh network systems. But
what's interesting about Wi Fi said it is, because of
its new features, standalone routers will actually work pretty good
and you may not even need these more expensive mesh networks.

Speaker 2 (01:35:09):
So that's good to hear.

Speaker 1 (01:35:10):
So even if you just like if you have a
smaller house like let's say like a thousand square feet
or something like that, you may not need to get
the mesh network to get two of those access points,
which is kind of nice.

Speaker 2 (01:35:21):
That'll save some money.

Speaker 1 (01:35:22):
Yes, okay, so Wi Fi seven, So when you are
doing your kind of investigation of this, what did you notice?
Did you notice that this was better? Like, did you
notice you get faster speeds and things, And do people
need to rush out to upgrade to this or is
it something to kind of be aware of.

Speaker 16 (01:35:39):
At this point, I would say, you don't have to
rush out to get Wi Fi seven right now unless
you're in a particular unless you have a particular scenario,
most people could get along just fine with Wi Fi
six at the moment. Wi Fi six E is great
if you have a lot of devices in your house

(01:36:02):
and they support Wi Fi six y. This is always
critical and and you have the need for a lot
of speed, you know, for gamers and for people who
do you know, multiple video streams at the same time.
That's where Wi Fi sixy and with the six gigahertz

(01:36:24):
band comes in. With Wi Fi seven, what happens is
it has this key feature called multi link operation or
m l O if I can throw an acronym out there,
and what this does. You know, as I mentioned earlier,
you have these three bands two point four, five and
six gigaherts and they typically have acted separately. Your device

(01:36:47):
connects to one of them. With Wi Fi seven, it
can connect to multiple bands at once. Yes, And so
what happens is if you are let's say that you
are you're in a particular spot and you've got a
really good signal, and you have a Wi Fi compatible
device like a laptop, computer or a smartphone, and you're

(01:37:10):
doing something really bandwidth intensive. You may be using more
than one.

Speaker 2 (01:37:16):
More than one frequency, so it's almost like bonds those
together almost.

Speaker 16 (01:37:19):
Yes, and so but what also happens is if you
get up and you move and you move into another room,
it easily decides well, I think five would be better
here than six, and so it'll switch you over at
six and is much more intelligent about doing that. So
it's a It makes the router a lot smarter. Another

(01:37:42):
thing that helps with it is that it has the
channels that your phone talks on in each of these
In each of these frequencies, a channel is like a
little section of the frequency that you get to use
with your device. The channel is twice as big with
Wi Fi seven. So you know, like in Jaws where

(01:38:05):
they said we're going to need a bigger boat for
Wi Fi, this is the bigger boat.

Speaker 2 (01:38:09):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:38:10):
So it sounds like it's it's promising. But here's the thing.
I feel like people are just hearing about Wi Fi
six E and now we have Wi Fi seven. So
do we, like, I mean, do we just skip Wi
Fi sixy or you know what? What supports Wi Fi seven?
Is there any device that even supports this, like a
laptop or you know phone?

Speaker 2 (01:38:31):
Yes?

Speaker 16 (01:38:32):
Yes, The most recent Samsung Galaxy phones support it wo
as well as the S twenty three support it. They'll
support it with an update. The one plus twelve that
just came out it supports Wi Fi seven. There are
a handful of laptops, mostly gamer laptops that support it.

(01:38:53):
Right now, the iPhone does not. The iPhone fifteen Pro
and Promax support six E, and probably with the iPhone
sixty and they'll all support six E. It's not clear,
of course, with Apple in the future, it's always murky
what they'll do, but it is it's possible that you

(01:39:15):
may see Wi Fi seven in the pros, but I
suspect what will happen is that all of them will
get six E. The thing to keep in mind about
Wi Fi seven is that, just as is always the
case with a brand new Wi Fi protocol, the routers
are really expensive. They first started appearing last year after cees,

(01:39:38):
and the early ones you know, approached one thousand dollars
or more. Now they are much more reasonable. I mean,
you can find some that run around the three hundred
dollars range. But that means, of course Wi Fi six
is now less expensive. Wi Fi six E routers are
coming down. Personally, I knew that that seven was coming.

(01:40:00):
I wanted to get a mesh network system for my home,
and I chose Amazon's Eero six E pro routers and
have two of those, and they're great and I probably
will be completely happy with those you know, for years
to come, and so you know, it fit the price
point for me. It's fast enough, it covers my house well,

(01:40:24):
so I don't need Wi Fi seven yet and probably won't.
But the good news is is that if you are
the type of person who prefers to rent your router
and modem or a combination known as a gateway from
your internet provider, there's a good chance within the next
year or so, Wi Fi seven will come to you

(01:40:46):
from their equipment.

Speaker 1 (01:40:47):
Okay, all right, Dwight, We're gonna leave it there. Dwight Silverman,
tech columnists at the Houston Chronicle. What's the best way
for folks to follow you these days?

Speaker 16 (01:40:56):
Best place is probably on threads and that's thread dot
threads dot net slash at d Silverman. If you just
search for d Silverman on any social network, I'm there,
except for X.

Speaker 1 (01:41:09):
All right, excellent, Thanks so much for joining me today.
Appreciate it, so thank you for having me. If you
see Wi Fi seven, you know, it depends what you need,
but it's something to know about for the future. All right,
coming up, we're going to do the feedback segment and
I'm going to tell you about this social media investment scam,
plus some other things I still need to get to
before the show ends, so we'll come right back. You're

(01:41:32):
listening to rich on Tech. Welcome back to rich on Tech.
Rich Demiro here hanging out with you talking technology.

Speaker 2 (01:41:42):
Richon Tech.

Speaker 1 (01:41:43):
Dot tv is the website you can find me online
at rich on Tech. So there's this new social media
investment scam. I don't think you're going to fall for it,
but I want to tell you about it just so
you're aware. So this pops up as it looks like
ads on Facebook and other social media networks shows billionaire investors,

(01:42:03):
investors like Bill Ackman, Kathy Woods, Steve Cohen, and the
ads lure you into a WhatsApp group where you're encouraged
to invest in penny stocks. Now I get it. People
want to make money, people want to invest in things,
but don't do this and don't fall for this. Of course,
these are pump and dump schemes. Now, these real investors

(01:42:26):
have told Facebook about this, they report the scam ads.
Facebook takes them down, and what do you think happens?
New ones pop up immediately victims. This is why I'm
telling you this because I can't. You would think that
nobody would fall for this, but they do. Victims have
lost and estimated three point two million dollars, twenty nine

(01:42:48):
victims three point two million dollars. And the reason why
they're falling for it is I guess they use deep
fake videos and personal touches. And so that's why I'm
telling you this, because these scams are going to get
tougher to understand because of AI.

Speaker 2 (01:43:06):
So be aware of this stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:43:07):
And again, it's something that gets you money really fast.
It's probably too good to be true. The Apple Sports
app got its first update.

Speaker 2 (01:43:18):
Remember this app.

Speaker 1 (01:43:19):
This is Apple's very simple sports app. You pop in
the teams that you like, and it tells you when
they're playing, gives you scores, and a lot of people
when it first came out last month were like, rich,
where's basketball, Where's baseball?

Speaker 2 (01:43:32):
Where's NFL?

Speaker 1 (01:43:34):
And Apple said, look, we're going to add these sports
as the season starts. So Baseball is now on there,
March Madness is on there. And so if you haven't
downloaded this Apple Sports app, it's just called Apple Sports.
It's very simple, it's free if you have an iPhone.
It's a nice way of kind of keeping track of
your favorite teams, and it tells you when they're playing

(01:43:54):
in the upcoming games and the past games, and there
is betting information on it. You can't bet through the app,
but you can see what the odds are. You can
turn it off in the settings if you disagree with that.
Google Io is happening. They announced the date for their
IO twenty twenty four. This is their big developers conference.
It's happening May fourteenth through fifteenth, and this usually happens

(01:44:16):
at the Shoreline Amphitheater in Mountain View, California, which is
where it's happening this year. I've been, I think, to
almost all of these in past years, except for the
years they didn't happen with the pandemic. It's always a
great time. They do a good job. I think that
Google is in a very precarious place, which is a
funny thing to say for a company of its size.
But I'm telling you the AI stuff, it didn't take

(01:44:39):
them by surprise, but I think it might. It might
have surprised them with just how fast these AI tools
from other companies have taken off. Now, Google has their
own flavor of AI called Gemini, and I think that's
probably the least known AI out of any of these.
If you ask someone, hey, what's an AI tool, they're
probably going to say chat GBT. Now that's a company
that came out of nowhere, and this is a huge company. Now,

(01:45:01):
So what do we expect from Google Io? Android fifteen updates?
New Pixel devices Pixel eight a that is their budget
pixel device, Maybe a new foldable phone, the Pixel Fold two,
and maybe a new tablet. They announced all those three
things last year at the event, and we saw new
ones last year, so we'll probably see new ones this

(01:45:23):
year as well. And I thought this was interesting, this
new Pew research study about how teens and parents view
screen time. So the main takeaway seventy two percent of
teens feel peaceful without their phones, but forty four percent
feel anxious when they don't have their phones nearby. And

(01:45:44):
I don't think that's just teens, that's probably adults too.
Have you ever gotten that like ghost vibration where you
think your phone is giving you a notification and you
kind of feel your pants, pocket or whatever. You look
at your phone, there's nothing there. It's like we're all like, oh,
waiting for that next notification. Half of parents looked through
have looked through their teen's phone. About forty percent of

(01:46:06):
parents and teens regularly argue about phone time. I don't
even have a teen, and we're arguing about screen time.

Speaker 2 (01:46:13):
This is the best part.

Speaker 1 (01:46:14):
Forty six percent of teens say their parent is sometimes
distracted by their phone during conversations. Yes, this has happened
to all of us. You're at dinner, their watch gets
a notification or their phone gets a notification, and that
sly kind of look to the side while you're talking
to someone.

Speaker 2 (01:46:31):
Yeah, it's annoying.

Speaker 1 (01:46:31):
It's annoying for teens that are trying to talk to
their parents when they actually do take the time to
talk to them.

Speaker 2 (01:46:37):
Thirty eight percent of.

Speaker 1 (01:46:38):
Teens say they spend too much time on their phone,
and seventy percent of teens believe smartphones provide more benefits
than harms their age group. Forty two percent say it
makes it harder to learn good skills. Now, this is interesting.
My wife was telling me yesterday she works with teenagers
and the smartphone is the connector. And I know that

(01:46:59):
sound strange, but when these teens that didn't know each
other got together, what do they want to do? They
want to swap socials and they want to say, hey.

Speaker 2 (01:47:08):
What are you on?

Speaker 1 (01:47:09):
You on Instagram, you on TikTok, you on Snapchat, And
that's how they keep up with each other. When I
meet someone out and about, like someone at a conference
or whatever, I will basically say, hey, what do you
on Instagram? And I'll follow them on Instagram because guess what,
I'm going to keep up with them, and I'm going
to remember that I met them because I keep seeing
their pictures pop up. This is the way things happen nowadays.

Speaker 2 (01:47:32):
So I get it.

Speaker 1 (01:47:32):
If you don't have a phone, you're kind of at
a disadvantage. And finally, Krig is introducing compostable k cups.

Speaker 2 (01:47:41):
So you know, k cups get a lot of.

Speaker 1 (01:47:42):
Grief because they're convenient, but you throw out a lot
of plastic and they're tough to recycle. So they have
developed a new compostable coffee pod called the k Round.
It's made from things that break down me throw them
in the ground. The problem is they're only compatible with
the new Kurrig Alta coffee maker.

Speaker 2 (01:48:01):
I'm assuming Alta because of ground.

Speaker 1 (01:48:04):
But the good news is this new coffee maker is
backwards compatible with traditional ca cups.

Speaker 2 (01:48:09):
So these are coming out later this year. They're going
to test them.

Speaker 1 (01:48:13):
I think this is a great thing because I always
feel a little bit guilty when I'm using that CA cup,
even though I love the CA cups. I mean, think
about the first time you discovered the CA cup. The
convenience of just popping this thing into a coffee maker
and making fresh coffee. And you know, I go back
and forth. On the weekends, I will brew a full,
full pot with coffee ground grounds, and then during the

(01:48:33):
week I will use the cake cups because they're convenient
and they're quick. So I think it works both ways.
And I'm not one of those people that peels off
the thing and recycles. I know people like plant plants
and them and stuff. But now it'll get a lot easier.
All right, a little feedback here, Jeff says, I have
a couple of suggestions for the callers that said they're
going overseas and needed an international hotspot.

Speaker 2 (01:48:54):
How about Google Fi.

Speaker 1 (01:48:55):
You can work for free in one hundred countries free
for seven days.

Speaker 2 (01:49:00):
Rich Such a great show, Jeff. All right, Jeff, I
like that. All right. That music means that's going to
do it for the end. Of the show.

Speaker 1 (01:49:06):
If you can find links to everything I mentioned on
the website, go to richon tech dot tv. For the
show notes. Find me at rich on tech. Thanks so
much for listening. Thanks to everyone who makes this show possible.
My name is rich Demiro. I'll talk to you real
soon

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