July 6, 2019 • 9 mins
The first major earthquakes hit Southern California since the launch of an early warning app for people who live in Los Angeles. Robert de Groot of the USGS explains what went as planned and where there is room for improvement.ShakeAlertLA AppiOS: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/shakealertla/id1445922632Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.app.shakealertla&hl=en_US
USGS on Twitter:https://twitter.com/USGS_ShakeAlert See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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USGS on Twitter:https://twitter.com/USGS_ShakeAlert See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
What's going on. I'm rich damiro This is Rich on
Tech Quick Hits. Joining me today is Robert de Gruzzi
is the Shake Alert National Coordinator for the Earthquake Science
Center at the USGS. Robert, thanks so much for joining
me today.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
So tell me what it's been like for your team
for the past seventy two hours, because there's been a
lot of seismic activity in the southern California area.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
It's been pretty incredible. We've had this sequence of a
magnitude six point four and on July fourth, and magnitude
seven point one last night, plus many thousands of aftershocks.
So it's been a very interesting time for us. And
in my particular role, I work with the earthquake Early
Warning program for USGS, and so that's been another interesting
piece of the entire operation for us.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So, the early warning system. We've heard talk about this
in California for many years. Tell me, so the main
component that's different this time around is that a lot
of average people had this shake alert la app so
is that new this time?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
The shakeload real quick early warning system is being implemented
in California, Oregon, and Washington, and so the USGS's role
in this whole process is to actually detect the ground
motion out in the field, to move that information to
a processing center and make these shake alerts the information
about the event available for delivery. And so the piece
(01:21):
that most people are asking about now is the City
of Los Angeles has recently released shakeload LA and app
where they deliver shake alerts to the residents of Los
Angeles County.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And so they're tapping into your system basically to deliver
those alerts.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
So how different are those two systems? Are you know,
passing along that information to them or I mean because
this took a while to implement, for yes, the regular volts.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So the USGS is the source of the shake alerts.
And what we do is we we we issue them
and everybody that is connected to us delivers them on
our behalf. So we we basically produced the information and
then we handed off to people to deliver and the
City of Los Angeles the shakewoad LA app is one
of those ways that we get the message out to people.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Okay, so there's been some talk about a shake or
LA app and I've been kind of a vocal you know,
a vocal I've been talking about it on Twitter a
lot because I was surprised that I did not get
an alert for the first earthquake, and then for the
second one, I didn't get it. What happened in this
scenario here, So part.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Of the information that we make available for delivery is
an estimation of how much the ground is going to shake,
And it turns out with both earthquakes, the initial information
that we sent out the estimates gave the shaking level
in Los Angeles County it was below a certain level.
It was below a certain threshold where we would not
(02:51):
have passed or the Shake with LA app would not
have passed along that information to the residents of LA County.
So it's more about what the settings are for Shake
loord LA and when they deliver the message that we produce.
So we produce the messages. They just didn't deliver it,
and that's not at the fault of the City of
Los Angeles. It was an agreed upon threshold to deliver
(03:14):
those messages.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Mainly because if you had a lower threshold, you might
get these messages all time.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
That's right. So there's that delicate balance between sending messages
and for us, the basic idea is to only deliver
messages to people who may experience potentially damaging shaking. And
what we mean by that is stuff starts falling off
shells or walls, or the shakings where people can't stand.
That's where we want people to really know. In many cases,
(03:43):
if you just feel an event, you'll be getting a
lot of those types of messages. So we want to
make sure that we're not over alerting people.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
And in the city of LA for this instance, there
wasn't really damaging shaking. It was more of a feeling
of shaking, and that's the delineation.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yes, in the County of Los Angeles, the initial estimation
of shaking in Los Angeles County was below that that
that potentially damaging shaking level. We've been doing some modeling
on that ever since last night, and it's it's likely
that there could have been in Los Angeles County. So
we're looking into this and trying to figure out a
way to basically strike that happy balance.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
And I saw that you guys did do an update
for the app overnight and you said on the app,
or at least on a tweet, that you lowered the
threshold from a I think it was a four to
a three or five four.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah. So what's really important to really mention is that
the shakela la app is managed and developed by the
City of Los Angeles, and we're providing them a lot
of advice. And my understanding of what they did last
night is that on the shakeload la app there's a
feature where you can look at recent earthquakes, and what
(04:55):
they did was is they moved the recent earthquakes that
you see on the screen from the magnitude four two
magnitude three, so there would be more events shown on
those maps.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Okay, And how much of a heads up should we
expect from the early warning system?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
So the shakeleariers quick early warning system should be able
to provide people with seconds to tens of seconds of
warning before shaking arise at their location. And what we're
telling people is is that if you feel shaking, don't
wait for the alert drop government hold on. The opposite
also is important that if you get the alert, don't
wait for the shaking drop government hold on. So it's
(05:32):
either the shaking or the alert that will tell you
to take that action.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Are there any limitations of this system at this point?
Like can it get better? In the future.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
It's absolutely getting better all the time. And I think
this is why working with the City of LA is
so critical, because there is the sort of technical infrastructure
part of it that the USGS is improving all the time.
But then there's also the delivery side. We're trying as
much as possible to reduce the times between when we
(06:00):
make the alert available for delivery and when that message
is actually you know, ends up in someone's hands in
they're on their phone or wherever else.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
And what about folks outside of LA County or City
of Los Angeles, Like will this app work for everyone?
Or are there other resources that people should be aware of?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
So the the app actually works for all residents of
Los Angeles County. So even though the City of LA
is producing the app, everyone in LA County would potentially
receive a shake alert. And there are other parallel, parallel
programs that are being put together projects for building apps,
but those are still in testing mode. It's really the
(06:41):
City of La app that has taken things to this
place where they're actually sending out alerts to people in
LA County.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Are there any other resources you recommend in general, like
do we follow a certain Twitter account? I know, there's
a bunch of earthquake apps on you know, the app stores,
and are those any good?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
So most of the apps that you'll see online are
the apps that subscribe to the same information from the
USGS about events that have already happened. With distinguishes Shake
Alert from all the other types of programs that are
out there is that we are providing some time potentially
sometime before shaking rise at your location. So there really
(07:21):
isn't anything other than shake La that's out there that's
operating in this capacity in La County. Now, there are
a few other apps that are are being developed. There's
one called quick Alert, which is being developed by a
company called Early Warning Labs, which is based in Santa Monica,
but that's also in testing mode. That's really pretty much it.
If people want to keep updated with the Shake Alert
(07:45):
earth Quick Early Warning system, we recommend they follow our
Twitter feed at and the addresses at USGS underscore shake Alert.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Anything else that folks should know about these, I mean,
because it's definitely an interesting time in southern California, know
where you just I mean, rarely do you feel the
ground shaking two times in two days and three days?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
You know, absolutely, And you know this, this is the
largest shaking that we felt in this region in about
twenty years, and so we're learning a lot from this earthquakes.
So there's a lot to learn about earthquakes from these events.
But what's also critical too, is that this is the
way that we're going to learn how to improve the
earthquake early warning system. I mean, it's one thing to
(08:26):
do stimulated earthquakes, it's one thing to do modeling, but
to actually have the real earthquakes, have the real events
and see what they do, it'll it'll give us that
insight we need to make an even better system so
people should not be alarmed the fact that things happen
the way they did this time. This is actually a
stepping stone to a much better shake with system, and.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
We feel like the APP is going to be in
a better position at this point for another alert in
the future.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yes, we're actually having discussions with folks at the City
of Los Angeles this week to make further changes.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Okay, Great Roberts Grout from Shake Alert, the Shake Alert
National coordinator for the Earthquakes Time Center at USGS. Thanks
so much for joining me today. I know you have
a busy weekend. Here it's a Saturday, and I know
it's a holiday weekend, so very interesting timing for these earthquakes.
But I guess they're not on anyone's particular schedule. Huh.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
That's right, yep, that we're here whenever they happen.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
All right, Thanks so much for listening to the show.
If you found this podcast useful, be sure to subscribe.
Just search Rich on Tech in your favorite podcast app.
Immrich Chmiro. I'll talk to you real soon.
What's going on. I'm rich damiro This is Rich on
Tech Quick Hits. Joining me today is Robert de Gruzzi
is the Shake Alert National Coordinator for the Earthquake Science
Center at the USGS. Robert, thanks so much for joining
me today.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
So tell me what it's been like for your team
for the past seventy two hours, because there's been a
lot of seismic activity in the southern California area.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
It's been pretty incredible. We've had this sequence of a
magnitude six point four and on July fourth, and magnitude
seven point one last night, plus many thousands of aftershocks.
So it's been a very interesting time for us. And
in my particular role, I work with the earthquake Early
Warning program for USGS, and so that's been another interesting
piece of the entire operation for us.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So, the early warning system. We've heard talk about this
in California for many years. Tell me, so the main
component that's different this time around is that a lot
of average people had this shake alert la app so
is that new this time?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
The shakeload real quick early warning system is being implemented
in California, Oregon, and Washington, and so the USGS's role
in this whole process is to actually detect the ground
motion out in the field, to move that information to
a processing center and make these shake alerts the information
about the event available for delivery. And so the piece
(01:21):
that most people are asking about now is the City
of Los Angeles has recently released shakeload LA and app
where they deliver shake alerts to the residents of Los
Angeles County.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And so they're tapping into your system basically to deliver
those alerts.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
So how different are those two systems? Are you know,
passing along that information to them or I mean because
this took a while to implement, for yes, the regular volts.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So the USGS is the source of the shake alerts.
And what we do is we we we issue them
and everybody that is connected to us delivers them on
our behalf. So we we basically produced the information and
then we handed off to people to deliver and the
City of Los Angeles the shakewoad LA app is one
of those ways that we get the message out to people.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Okay, so there's been some talk about a shake or
LA app and I've been kind of a vocal you know,
a vocal I've been talking about it on Twitter a
lot because I was surprised that I did not get
an alert for the first earthquake, and then for the
second one, I didn't get it. What happened in this
scenario here, So part.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Of the information that we make available for delivery is
an estimation of how much the ground is going to shake,
And it turns out with both earthquakes, the initial information
that we sent out the estimates gave the shaking level
in Los Angeles County it was below a certain level.
It was below a certain threshold where we would not
(02:51):
have passed or the Shake with LA app would not
have passed along that information to the residents of LA County.
So it's more about what the settings are for Shake
loord LA and when they deliver the message that we produce.
So we produce the messages. They just didn't deliver it,
and that's not at the fault of the City of
Los Angeles. It was an agreed upon threshold to deliver
(03:14):
those messages.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Mainly because if you had a lower threshold, you might
get these messages all time.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
That's right. So there's that delicate balance between sending messages
and for us, the basic idea is to only deliver
messages to people who may experience potentially damaging shaking. And
what we mean by that is stuff starts falling off
shells or walls, or the shakings where people can't stand.
That's where we want people to really know. In many cases,
(03:43):
if you just feel an event, you'll be getting a
lot of those types of messages. So we want to
make sure that we're not over alerting people.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
And in the city of LA for this instance, there
wasn't really damaging shaking. It was more of a feeling
of shaking, and that's the delineation.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yes, in the County of Los Angeles, the initial estimation
of shaking in Los Angeles County was below that that
that potentially damaging shaking level. We've been doing some modeling
on that ever since last night, and it's it's likely
that there could have been in Los Angeles County. So
we're looking into this and trying to figure out a
way to basically strike that happy balance.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
And I saw that you guys did do an update
for the app overnight and you said on the app,
or at least on a tweet, that you lowered the
threshold from a I think it was a four to
a three or five four.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah. So what's really important to really mention is that
the shakela la app is managed and developed by the
City of Los Angeles, and we're providing them a lot
of advice. And my understanding of what they did last
night is that on the shakeload la app there's a
feature where you can look at recent earthquakes, and what
(04:55):
they did was is they moved the recent earthquakes that
you see on the screen from the magnitude four two
magnitude three, so there would be more events shown on
those maps.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Okay, And how much of a heads up should we
expect from the early warning system?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
So the shakeleariers quick early warning system should be able
to provide people with seconds to tens of seconds of
warning before shaking arise at their location. And what we're
telling people is is that if you feel shaking, don't
wait for the alert drop government hold on. The opposite
also is important that if you get the alert, don't
wait for the shaking drop government hold on. So it's
(05:32):
either the shaking or the alert that will tell you
to take that action.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Are there any limitations of this system at this point?
Like can it get better? In the future.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
It's absolutely getting better all the time. And I think
this is why working with the City of LA is
so critical, because there is the sort of technical infrastructure
part of it that the USGS is improving all the time.
But then there's also the delivery side. We're trying as
much as possible to reduce the times between when we
(06:00):
make the alert available for delivery and when that message
is actually you know, ends up in someone's hands in
they're on their phone or wherever else.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
And what about folks outside of LA County or City
of Los Angeles, Like will this app work for everyone?
Or are there other resources that people should be aware of?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
So the the app actually works for all residents of
Los Angeles County. So even though the City of LA
is producing the app, everyone in LA County would potentially
receive a shake alert. And there are other parallel, parallel
programs that are being put together projects for building apps,
but those are still in testing mode. It's really the
(06:41):
City of La app that has taken things to this
place where they're actually sending out alerts to people in
LA County.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Are there any other resources you recommend in general, like
do we follow a certain Twitter account? I know, there's
a bunch of earthquake apps on you know, the app stores,
and are those any good?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
So most of the apps that you'll see online are
the apps that subscribe to the same information from the
USGS about events that have already happened. With distinguishes Shake
Alert from all the other types of programs that are
out there is that we are providing some time potentially
sometime before shaking rise at your location. So there really
(07:21):
isn't anything other than shake La that's out there that's
operating in this capacity in La County. Now, there are
a few other apps that are are being developed. There's
one called quick Alert, which is being developed by a
company called Early Warning Labs, which is based in Santa Monica,
but that's also in testing mode. That's really pretty much it.
If people want to keep updated with the Shake Alert
(07:45):
earth Quick Early Warning system, we recommend they follow our
Twitter feed at and the addresses at USGS underscore shake Alert.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Anything else that folks should know about these, I mean,
because it's definitely an interesting time in southern California, know
where you just I mean, rarely do you feel the
ground shaking two times in two days and three days?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
You know, absolutely, And you know this, this is the
largest shaking that we felt in this region in about
twenty years, and so we're learning a lot from this earthquakes.
So there's a lot to learn about earthquakes from these events.
But what's also critical too, is that this is the
way that we're going to learn how to improve the
earthquake early warning system. I mean, it's one thing to
(08:26):
do stimulated earthquakes, it's one thing to do modeling, but
to actually have the real earthquakes, have the real events
and see what they do, it'll it'll give us that
insight we need to make an even better system so
people should not be alarmed the fact that things happen
the way they did this time. This is actually a
stepping stone to a much better shake with system, and.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
We feel like the APP is going to be in
a better position at this point for another alert in
the future.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yes, we're actually having discussions with folks at the City
of Los Angeles this week to make further changes.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Okay, Great Roberts Grout from Shake Alert, the Shake Alert
National coordinator for the Earthquakes Time Center at USGS. Thanks
so much for joining me today. I know you have
a busy weekend. Here it's a Saturday, and I know
it's a holiday weekend, so very interesting timing for these earthquakes.
But I guess they're not on anyone's particular schedule. Huh.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
That's right, yep, that we're here whenever they happen.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
All right, Thanks so much for listening to the show.
If you found this podcast useful, be sure to subscribe.
Just search Rich on Tech in your favorite podcast app.
Immrich Chmiro. I'll talk to you real soon.
Host
Rich DeMuro
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