Cincy 360 with Austin Elmore -- 10/8/25

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fall in the NATI Brought to you by Hey Duran
Window Company on ESPN fifteen point thirty, the official home
of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Ah.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
Yes, football in the Natty. Believe it or not. The
Bengals are still playing games, even after three consecutive losses,
and they're going to play this weekend at lambeau Field
against the Green Bay Packers, and it's probably gonna be
with Joe Flaccos starting at quarterback. More on that in

(00:35):
just a moment. If you were thinking, gosh, how did
the Joe Flacco news, How did that change the betting
lines in Vegas? How on earth you know how big
of a boost really is this from one Joe Flacco. Well,
they went from fourteen and a half point favorites green
Bay to fourteen point favorites, so at least half a

(00:59):
point by Joe Flaco. Joe, it was announced this morning
by the Bengals is going to be wearing number sixteen.
Number sixteen. Will Flacco wear his number fifteen already taken
by Charlie Jones, as is number five by t Higgins.
Earlier today, Joe's agent spoke with the media in Cleveland,

(01:23):
said quote, Joe loves Cleveland and understands what happened over
the last four weeks. He has really cherished his time
in Cleveland in Cleveland and looks forward to a new
challenge in Cincinnati. Joe is like any kid in America
who plays football. He would much rather be on the
field than on the bench. That is from Joe Linta,

(01:45):
the agent for Joe Flacco, and a little bit more.
Over the last couple of hours, more details have come
out about the Bengals search for a quarterback, and I
thought it was interesting what Ian Rappaport had to say

(02:06):
earlier this morning on Good Morning Football. Take a listen.

Speaker 4 (02:09):
You wondered what the Bengals and Chief of Personnel Duke
Togan would do over the last four to eight hours,
where would they find a starting quarterback? And minunderstanding is
they really canvass the league to try to find one.
Yesterday afternoon they sat around one. It was a rare
Intra Division trade. It was Joe Flacko going from the
Cleveland Browns to the Cincinnati Bengals. Essentially, it's Blacko and

(02:31):
a sixth to the Bengals and a fifth rounder. The
value there is about a sixth rounder which sounds about right. Flacko,
of course, had been the back of him, probably was
eventually going to be the three. If you're the Bengals,
you give Joe Flacco more weapons than he's ever had,
T Higgins and Jamar Chase, and you give yourself a shot.
Joe Burrow comes back in the middle of December. If

(02:52):
this team can just stay alive until then, Burrow will
be back. Flaco's led a team into the playoffs, says
back up before we will see.

Speaker 5 (03:01):
Who can do it again.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Ian Rappaport with a lot of music in the background
on Good Morning Football this morning. The part that I
found interesting there is that the Bengals apparently canvassed the
rest of the NFL looking for another quarterback. They canvassed
the NFL. Dan Graziano of ESPN reported that there were
conversations about Sam Howell in Philadelphia, about Drew Locke in Seattle.

(03:27):
I think he's with Seattle right now, but ultimately they
decided on Joe. Flacco also said that Russell Wilson and
Jamis Winston were never real options, as was Kirk Cousins.
We all know the money with Cousins. I get that's
not a real option. My question, why wasn't Jamis and
Russell Wilson? Why aren't those guys real options? Why aren't

(03:51):
those legitimate options for the Bengals? Does that make sense
to anybody? If you canvassed the league and you made
phone calls over the last twenty four to forty eight hours,
according to multiple sources across the NFL, and then according
to one of the more reputable sources, Diana Russini, you
didn't even check with the Giants about Russell Wilson and
Jameis Winston. How's that possible? That's very confusing to me. Listen,

(04:19):
I'm happy that they went out and did something and
got a quarterback, and I do think Joe Flacco can
be good enough for them to win games, especially considering
the teams that are on their schedule. But I do
feel like there is a there are other quarterbacks out there,
most notably maybe Jamis maybe Russell Wilson that can help

(04:40):
you win games quicker or more games than Joe Flacco.
Am I crazy in thinking that? I don't think so?
But it's fascinating that that's the one they settled on
and for them to do it inside the division with
the Cleveland Brown's, you know, basically a pick swap, which

(05:03):
is good because we know this team needs to spend
their draft picks and get players, so they weren't losing
a draft pick in all this, which is great. And
they moved back I don't know, roughly eighty spots something
along those lines. It will be once the draft order
gets finalized. It's not a big deal. It's a very
very little price to pay for quarterback play that will

(05:24):
at least be better than Jake Browning was. The corresponding
move was that they let Brett Rippan go. Not a
surprise there. That happened later on in the afternoon after
I was off the air yesterday. So Brett Rippin, what
was he doing this whole time? Like you signed Brett Rippan?

(05:45):
And I understand the Bengals legitimately thought going into the
season it was gonna be Joe Burrow, Jake Browning, Brett Rippan.
We never had to worry about Brett Rippon. Okay, well,
Joe gets hurt, we have Jake. We're fine. We don't
need to get anybody because surely Jake's not gonna get
hurt too. Okay, well, Jake didn't get hurt, but he's stunk,
and you couldn't go to Brett Rippin on Sunday. That's
where Zach lost me for a lot of different reasons.

(06:07):
That's where Zach lost me. The way that he continued
putting Jake Browning out there says to me, OKAYU is
Brett Rippin just like complete get completely unable to play
the position? Like if he gets the snap, will he
just turn and throw it to the opposite direction? Like
surely he can do better than Jake Browning, And yet

(06:28):
he kept putting Jake out there. But I do think
them trading for Joe Flacco is a win for Zach
Taylor because it is an acknowledgment by Duke Tobin and
those above that the roster isn't good enough and Jake
Browning isn't good enough, and at some point it's out

(06:50):
of the control of Zach Taylor. So you need to
go get a veteran quarterback who they think can get
here yesterday, which I assume he was here yes yesterday.
He'll practice today and assume he's going to start on
Sunday against the Packers, a team that he already faced
once this season. I guess that's the plan. Does anybody

(07:15):
feel incredibly confident in this No, I don't think so.
I don't know that you should. It's a desperate move,
but sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures, and that's
what we're going through right now with the Bengals. It's
gotten to that point with the quarterback play. Desperate times

(07:36):
now desperate measures. Joe Flacco when he takes the field
for the Bengals, assuming he's starting the game on Sunday
in Green Bay, will be forty years old, and at
that point he will become the oldest player in the
history of the Bengals franchise. That's kind of hard to believe,

(07:57):
isn't it? Forty years old? Is Joe Flacco playing drafted
in two thousand and eight, was his rookie season with
the Baltimore Ravens. That's hard to believe. That's unbelievable. He's
going to be the oldest player in franchise history, assuming
he starts and plays on Sunday against the Packers. Wild Uh.

(08:21):
We'll open up the phone lines at five, one, three, seven, four, nine,
fifteen thirty if you want to talk Bengals, if you
want to talk Reds. I gotta make fun of the
Reds and Nick crawl at some point. Number one, I
like doing it. Number two he said some stuff and
did some stuff that I find pretty funny when he
met with the media earlier this week. Also, if you

(08:44):
want to talk Bengals, if you want to talk Flacco,
whatever it might be, we'll open up the lines for
that as well. Five one, three, seven, four nine, fifteen thirty.
You can also tweeted me at Audiel more Au t
y E L M O R. This has been Football
in the Natty Hour, one of since he three to sixty,
brought to you by Skyline Chili, Home of the Bengals,

(09:05):
ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
You've been listening to Football in the NATI on ESPN
fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
This is from thirty.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Calls from He sends one the other way Wells truckball
team left field and gone Rawley's first of the playoffs
and it's eight to one Seattle.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
They are feeling it. Oh great pick right there.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
He literally has a shirt that says dump here home
my word. And he got the home run on the
Bounts for sixty one, number sixty one, though Way could
not have been scripted better.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
That's a.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
That is digitally placed by our cruise.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
About pretty cool moment last night in Detroit. The Big
Dumper went poo pooh, another home run for cal Raley.
Seattle beats Detroit after a lengthy, lengthy rain delay, and
that guy out there in left center field in Detroit

(10:15):
wearing the Big Dumper hitted here shirt multiple ready for
number sixty one, sixty two and others catches the home run.
That was really cool. That was the call on Fox
Sports one, Fox Sports two last night for Alds Game
three between Yes Game three between Seattle and Detroit. I'm

(10:38):
getting all the playoff series confused. And that that call
from the good folks on Fox Sports one is brought
to you by win Shulers Fantastic cheese spreads. Elevate your
taste game with wind Shulers cheese Spreads. I'll be looking
forward to having some win Shulers this weekend ahead of
Bengals Packers, and thankful for the win Shooler's call of

(11:02):
the day last night. In Major League Baseball, it was
a couple of really good games. Seattle ends up running
away with it over Detroit. Detroit made a little interesting
late in that game, but Seattle leads that series two
to one. Toronto was looking to sweep the Yankees and
finish it off at Yankee Stadium, but Aaron Judge went crazy,
had a big three run homer to tie things up,

(11:24):
then had a nice diving catch in right field. After that,
Yankees end up beating the Blue Jays to stay alive.
Toronto leads that series to one. Everybody plays today, both
the American League and the National League. The Phillies are
trying to stave off elimination at Dodger Stadium against the Dodgers,

(11:44):
as are the Cubs against Milwaukee. And then those two
games I just mentioned earlier, just a couple of minutes ago,
between Seattle and Detroit, Toronto and New York. Everybody plays today,
uh in Major League Baseball. Let's go to the phones
five one, three, fifteen thirty. If you want to call

(12:06):
in and be a part of the show. Let's go
to Newport. Let's talk to Calvin. Calvin, what do you.

Speaker 6 (12:10):
Got hey, Audie?

Speaker 7 (12:12):
How you doing?

Speaker 3 (12:13):
I'm all right, man, you.

Speaker 8 (12:14):
Know, I remember a couple of years ago the Colts
went with Jeff Saturday trying to dig in the well
for some fresh ideas, get some new coaching. Maybe after
after this week, maybe, uh, Tony just to have his
resume ready to go for Zach Taylor seat.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
Yeah, I mean it's not a bad idea. You might
as well.

Speaker 8 (12:34):
I'll talk to you later.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
Audio. All right, Calvin, thank you very much. Yeah, I
remember that was a that feels like a fever dream.
Jeff Saturday was the head coach of the Colts for
like ten minutes and almost almost got the job. I think,
uh that was a Jim Ersay special right there. Let's
go to Mark in Western Hills. What's up, Mark?

Speaker 9 (12:54):
You knew Austin. Yeah, I was kind of recording on
what you just saying about the quarterback situation here in
Cincinnati with Joe Flacco being named this quarterback for I
guess the rest of the season until Joe comes back.
But the one guy you mentioned that I don't really

(13:15):
feel what the health name was at all was Russell Wilson.
He's looked bad for five years now. He is not
the same quarterback he wasn't in the in the Super
Bowl years ago for Seattle. He can't get out of
his own way, he can't throw more than ten yards
and if he does, it's a lollipop. Now, I had

(13:39):
no problem with.

Speaker 10 (13:40):
Getting the other.

Speaker 9 (13:41):
Guy, and that's I think he could still play, but
not Russell Wilson.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, And you know, Tony and I had a debate
about that a week or two ago, or I kind
of said the same thing, and then I watched Jake
Browning play again and I was like, literally, anybody could
play the position better, even Russell Wilson.

Speaker 7 (14:06):
Like that.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah, yeah, Mark, thank you for the phone call. And again,
desperate times, desperate measures. I mean, Russ at least had
a game earlier this year where he for a moment,
looked like Russell Wilson from ten years ago. That was
against the Dallas Cowboys in like the second or third
week of the season, and it was like vintage Russ
and it's like, Okay, there's maybe something still in the
tank here for this guy. And then they got into

(14:30):
overtime and he threw a heat check up in the air.
It was an arm putt. Looked like Jake Brownie. But
he at least had the Giants competing in Dallas, which
may not be that hard of a thing to do,
but still he knew to throw the ball to his
best receiver, which was Malik Neighbors. He's since been hurt.
But that's what I'm trying to say, and I've reinforced

(14:52):
this point both yesterday and today. Jake Browning's play was
so unbelievably bad that you had to go go and
do something. And if things are heading in the direction
that they are, or that they sound like they are,
which is that Joe Burrow is recovering and at least
on pace. We don't know the timeline. We haven't got

(15:13):
an update on the timeline. I don't know if we
will get an update on the timeline. But we did
hear from Joe Daniman when he was on the air
with us earlier today or earlier this week yesterday that
Joe is in a walking boat that's an upgrade from
the scooter. If you can be competitive in the AFC
and there's even a fraction of a chance that Joe
Burrow comes back, you got to do something. And I

(15:34):
think that's where the Bengals mind is at right there.
Let's go to John in Boston. What up, John.

Speaker 7 (15:41):
Boston?

Speaker 11 (15:41):
Now, my condolences to Tony and to you on this
obviously idiotic decision. I've been in and out.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
Of radio for many years.

Speaker 11 (15:49):
And it's the worst business because a good man like
Tony who does a great job, and you do a
great job and they just get rid of you for
whatever reason. Some bean counter is looking at lines and
numbers and decides to let go of a good man
who does a great job. But I have the utmost
confidence that Tony's going to resurfas whether it's in Cincinnati
or somewhere else.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
He's a real talent. And then if he's listening, hang
in there, my friend. Yeah, well said John Days.

Speaker 11 (16:14):
Absolutely, thank you. As far as the quarterback situation with
the Bengals, jump ball Joe will make Higgins life a
lot easier because Joe Flackel will throw the ball down
on the field provided he has more than one point
three seconds to throw the ball. If the offensive line
he'd give him some time, so he'll make some plays,
and I think Higgins and Chase will be happy with

(16:36):
him going forward in terms of that he will put
the ball in their area code. He's not afraid to
lay it into tight coverage. He's got still a very,
very very strong arm at forty years old, So I
think this is going to be an upgrade. I would
have preferred James Winston because I get the feeling if
Winston was to come in and start six games, he
scored thirty or more points than three of them, and
probably less than ten points in three of them, but

(16:58):
he might win three games. No, nobody's a bigger twitk
or treat than James Winston, right, I mean the only
man in the history of football thirty touchdowns, thirty interceptions.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's pretty awesome in that situation.
And a couple of people say that about Flacco as well,
is that you know, there's peaks and valleys with that,
And my response to that is, I'd rather have some
peaks than all valleys. And I think we were in
the direction of all valleys with Jake Browning.

Speaker 11 (17:25):
Without question and the takeaway I'm going to have And
you know, I, despite being from Boston, I try to
be an eternal optimist. Is we go back to the
Instagram post that Joe Burrow put out a couple of
weeks ago, this game will break your heart see you
soon once soon.

Speaker 5 (17:42):
Makes me feel optimistic.

Speaker 11 (17:44):
Maybe he's even a head of schedule, as Joe Danmon
reported yesterday, like you just said he's in a walking
boot and on a cast and a scooter. His dad
had said that he's a quick healer. Just stay afloat
till late November. Maybe he comes back even sooner. And
this AFC is so wide open. Yeah, you know, I
could predict who's going to be in the super Bowl
at this point because it's going to change from week

(18:06):
to week. So just be optimistic that maybe Number nine
comes back even before that. I hope to come out
for the Patriots Bengals game on the twenty third of November,
and I'm going to keep hoping that that's gonna be
the case. I'm not going to come up to see
Joe Flacco play, but if Number nine is out there
on the field, he'll be out.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
There all right, John, thank you, I appreciate it. I
would love nothing more than Joe Burr to be ready
to go by then. Might be a long shot, but
you never really.

Speaker 10 (18:33):
No.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
Let's go to Blue Ash. Let's talk to Tim. What's up, Tim?

Speaker 5 (18:38):
I was going.

Speaker 12 (18:40):
My first stought is getting Joe Flacco is the best
thing that happened in this organization since we got Joe Barrow.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
Wow, that's how I praise Tim he's a super Bowl winner.

Speaker 12 (18:51):
I mean, we're elite now, probably at top of the league.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
Do you do you believe? Do you believe the words
you say? Tim? Do you really believe them? Explain? Explain
why why.

Speaker 13 (19:05):
Bill Flacco is an elite quarterback?

Speaker 3 (19:08):
Is he that's been the question about him for the
last fifteen years? Is he actually though he's elite? FPFP
comming there, he's an elite quarterback. We all know this. Yeah,
he's going to come in. He's going to get the
Bengals to probably.

Speaker 12 (19:24):
Nine wins, barely make the playoffs.

Speaker 11 (19:27):
Burl's going to come back Super bowls back on.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
You gotta think positive in this situation. Yeah, all right, Tim,
I appreciate that. Have Tim's all in, he's whacko for
Flacco as they like to say. Okay, all right, I
can appreciate that. Let's go to South Carolina and talk
to our friend Ned. Hello, Ned, Hey, how's it going.

Speaker 13 (19:49):
I I talked to you guys just before the season
started and said, I feel like the whole defense is
build on hope and hoping. Guys take the next step forward.
And man, they really made a gamble that Al Golden
was going to turn this defense around and as we're
seeing Lou and Roumo do an Indy might not have
been lose fault. And I just worry more about the

(20:11):
defense almost than anything, because I don't know how you
fix this defense in the next year or even two years,
unless you have another twenty twenty one free agency class
like we did back then. I just guys like Joseph Osai, Miles, Murphy,
cam Tale of britt Gino Stone, you know, Jordan Back.
There's just so many holes and I feel like guys

(20:34):
that are not any different than they were in the
past couple of years.

Speaker 3 (20:37):
And I just I.

Speaker 13 (20:39):
Don't really know where you go. And I guess, you know,
it drives me nuts that that Al Golden, you know,
with a smirk and a grin on his face, looked
at us and said, you know, we haven't been playing
well in the preseason because it's a vanilla defense. Well
he must be holding this good defense for the playoffs
because he's toldn't see it. So I don't know. I
guess I'm a lit the.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
Defense more than anything. Yeah, And I think that's it's
maybe been a bit of a distraction with the offense.
And it's also easy to make excuses for the defense
when the offense is turning the ball over as much
as they are, And I do think that's a fair excuse,
but I think your point is valid, dead and thank you.
I want to talk about that because you know, I
had said at the beginning of the season that the

(21:21):
Bengals offense might need to carry them through the first month,
month and a half while the defense gets its legs
underneath them, figures out the roles that Al Golden wants
them to play, figures out the different ways that he
wants to do things. And so now we're at that point,
we're pasted a month into the season. Can the defense
start to make some progress? Can it start to take

(21:44):
a step forward? Are we to that point yet? They
were okay against Detroit despite some of the issues that
the offense was having, but they weren't great. And Netta
is correct, it doesn't feel like anybody has taken a
significant step forward. Demetrius Knight, he's okay. He's a rookie,

(22:06):
kind of a mixed bag. Logan Wilson feels like he's
going in the opposite direction. Geno Stone is maybe no
better than he was a year ago, or no worse
than he was a year ago. He's just staying put.
Dax Hill still evaluating him after an ACL You feel
good about him, but h DJ Turner and Cam Taylor

(22:27):
Britt completely lost, completely lost. Don't know what to do
with those guys. Josh Newton can't seem to handle NFL
caliber wide receivers not going in the right direction. Barrett
Carter rarely gets opportunities. Shamar Stewart has been hurt. Miles
Murphy got his first solo Saxons twenty twenty three. Maybe

(22:49):
there's something there. I haven't hated everything I've seen from
Joseph Osai, so okay, maybe we're getting something from Jerry Montgomery,
that new defensive line coach. But overall, to Ned's point,
it doesn't feel like collectively as a group, there's a
step forward being had. And you can really help out
your offense if you're a better defense. You can really

(23:11):
help out your defense if you're a better offense. We
talk often about complimentary football. Are you able to play
that style of game? And I do think that the
Bengals believe that Joe Flacco in and of himself will
help the offense stay on schedule and not put the
defense in those predicaments. You look back to Flacco's season

(23:32):
this year, He's got two touchdowns and six interceptions, and
two of those interceptions came at the hands of the
Bengals in Week one. Both of them were on dropped,
tipped passes by Brown's receivers. Now, I'm not making an
excuse for Flacco, but I'm also saying, if you go
back and watch, those were two really good balls placed
in a good position in the Browns receivers failed him.

(23:56):
I don't know that there's a position or a position
group that Joe Flacco has been with in his long
NFL career more talented than the one he's walking into
right now with the Bengals wide receivers, and that in
and of itself, you feel like can elevate his play.
And if they're able to play that quick game, then

(24:18):
that can elevate the play of the offense as a whole,
maybe open up more in the run game, create chances
for Jamar Chase and t Higgins because the game plans
I don't feel like have been awful the last couple
of weeks, but the quarterback play has and it's easy
to see if you watch games around the league. It's
easy to see how different it is from a guy

(24:40):
who gets it and a guy who doesn't. And all
you got to do is go back and even look
at Joe against Cleveland, or Joe Burrow against Jacksonville early on,
or any other game in Burrow's career. You can see
the difference between a guy who is confident in his
ability to operate the offense and a guy who's not,

(25:01):
like Jake Browning was. And maybe coming into this week
on a short week of preparation, you dumb it down
a little bit and you simplify the offense for Flacco,
for the receivers, for everybody, and you just go out
and play football a little bit more relaxed. Maybe that's
part of the conversation as well. We'll take a break,

(25:22):
we'll come back. This is ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 6 (25:26):
This week, it will be a four quarter pad founder
when the Bengals try to slice through the packers. To
be honest, I prefer my cheese shred it, but eating
it does make me gussie. There will be no love
lost at Lembo Field, or will there. Sunday coverage begins
at twelve noon stream for free on the New and improved.

(25:47):
iHeartRadio app or ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of
the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
Since he three sixty ESPN fifteen thirty on Austin Elmore.
I have to ask my producer Drew a question, because
Drew is a Browns fan and has watched, to my knowledge,
every single Joe Flacco snap this season, including some of
them in person. Drew, what are the I can't even

(26:23):
say with the straight face. What are the Bengals getting
in forty year old Joe Flacco? From what you've seen
this year?

Speaker 14 (26:29):
You're gonna get a guy that looks really good in
his uniform, Paul handsome, forty year old man. Yeah, on
the quarterback playing front, I don't know. It's I think
the Bengals and the Browns offensive lines are are about
the same.

Speaker 13 (26:45):
Not very good.

Speaker 14 (26:46):
You're gonna have to I do agree with the sentiment
that this is the best weapons that he's ever he has.
They're far better than the weapons he had in Cleveland.
But I watched just about every snap of him his
start for the Browns this year, in the four games
that he started, and I think it was about the
third quarter of the Lions game where I was like,

(27:08):
I've seen enough. You know, we'll always have twenty three.
We'll always have that special time when he came in
off the couch and had a December to remember, remember
Jake Browning for the Cleveland Browns.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
So and I think he probably, you know, he wants
to play.

Speaker 14 (27:25):
Obviously, his agent said that when he talked talked to
the media about how grateful he is to Cleveland and
how like any kid, he would rather be playing. I
think he probably went to Andrew Berry in the management
with the Browns and said, hey, look, you know, if
somebody comes to call in and wants me to come play,
I would really appreciate if you guys made a move

(27:46):
like that. And I think that is I think the
Browns did right by Flacco in that case. And I
think that's kind of proven with the fact that they'd
made this trade with an inner division team.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
Yeah, I'm right there with you, and and uh, you know,
good for him him. You know that he gets a
chance to play, he gets to play, and who knows
he might come out. And his one win on the
year was against the Green Bay Packers. Now that was
a home He made about three pretty good throws in
that game one led him one led to one, led

(28:18):
to the game winning field goals.

Speaker 14 (28:20):
So and you know he's not He's not going to
be surprised at what he sees out there, even if
it's a team he's already seen this year once. Yeah,
you know, nothing's going to surprise him. He's seen it
all in his time in the NFL. So you at
least have that. And I agree with the sentiment of
a lot of Bengals fans is that, well, it couldn't
really get any worse.

Speaker 3 (28:39):
Yeah, and that that's just a fact. To be honest,
I really don't think it could be. I mean, I
know it's not actually a fact, but it is a
fact as far as I'm concerned, based off of everything
that that I have seen and heard about the way
that Jake Browning was playing the position was actually crazy.
I was. I was producing the show down the Hall
yesterday afternoon, it dawned on me. Rocky Boyman in two

(29:02):
thousand and nine played against Joe Flacco. Is that not ridiculous?
It's just crazy to think about. Well, was it?

Speaker 14 (29:11):
Like I forget it was Willy something blocked for him.
Moe was talking about this on his show yesterday Willy Anderson,
Willy and Mandel's Ring of Honor nominee. Correct, Yeah, Ring
of Honor. Remember he blocked for Joe flat He was
drafted in nineteen ninety six and blocked for Joe Flacco.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
Well, yeah, and they were pretty good with the Ravens
at that time. All right, good stuff. We'll continue the
conversation and try to make sense of things with our
guy John Sheeran. Next on ESPN fifteen thirty U s.

Speaker 15 (29:38):
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Speaker 16 (29:46):
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Cys Cincy Shirts since He three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati,
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Dation Shack Hi.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
Hello, welcome in to our number two of Cinty three
to sixty on ESPN fifteen thirty. I'm Austin Elmore. Coming
up in just a little bit, we'll hear from the
head coach of the Bengals, Zach Taylor, who is talking
to the media about Joe Flacco and getting set for
the matchup coming up this Sunday against the Green Bay Packers.

(30:29):
Our two is brought to you by Cincy Shirts, and
if you're thinking of Joe Flacco, you can go Cincy
Shirts dot com or any of their retail retail locations
and get there. Oh no, or excuse me, uh oh
better get Flaco T shirts now available at Cinti shirts
dot Com. Joe Flacco will start Sunday against the Packers,

(30:52):
according to Zach Taylor. John Sheeran joins us now from
A to Z Sports. John, when you hear that Joe
Flacco is starting a game for the Cincinnati Bengals in
the Year of Our Lord twenty twenty five, your reaction
is what well, I think.

Speaker 12 (31:06):
And when you're in any fever dream, you just kind
of have to just keep shugging along, right, You just
keep taking it one day at a time because I
can't describe what the last month has been.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
It's been crazy. Yeah. Uh, how does it is this
a good thing? Does it mean hope? Does it, at
least at the bare minimum, give Bengals fans hope that
they can compete this year?

Speaker 12 (31:27):
I think the hope is the fact that they were
willing to do anything at all, I think because they've
developed a reputation obviously for.

Speaker 7 (31:35):
Never doing in season trades.

Speaker 12 (31:37):
Of course, all three of them in their history have
come in the last five years under Zach Taylor. All
of them have been prompted by some sort of desperation
or something bad happens. Right, Carlo Dunlop get sent off
to Seattle because he blew up Khalil Herbert was brought
in because the fans were just dying for something when
Zach Moss went down and the offense needed some help.

(31:58):
And obviously now you you couldn't, like, you couldn't stay
with a straight face that you have any confidence in
Jake Brownie right, So like getting a new face in
their quarterback seemed very necessary, and it was a desperate move.
And I think that's just how you have to look
at it. Joe Flacco, there isn't a high probability that
he's for certain going to be better than Jake Brininge. Like,

(32:21):
that's just the reality of it. There is things to
like about Joe Flacco compared to Jake Brownie right, a
better arm, more experience, and you think that the ball
is going to get out quicker and at least to
the targets on a timely manner when Brown couldn't do that.
But will the results be any different? It's really tough
to say. But the fact that they're willing to do

(32:41):
anything at all, I think is relative to the Bengals
standards commendable. And I think that's if you want to
hang around on anything, if you're a Bengals fan, it's
at least that.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
Do you think that has an effect on the locker
room to say, okay, they are at least trying to
do something to help us out here. Do you think
specifically it has an impact on Jamar Chase and t
Higgins to put a little bit of a pep in
their step and maybe a jolt to everyone else. I
think so.

Speaker 8 (33:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (33:09):
I think we've seen it so many other times in
which they waited far too long to do anything of note,
and their willingness to stand by to stick by their
guys even when they're not playing well. It has derailed
some seasons in the past. And I think when you're
specifically talking about the quarterback, who is more important than

(33:31):
anyone else in that locker room? If there is faith
lost in that guy, and in this case it happened
to be Browning. It's really hard to galvanize the fifty
two other players there to show up every Sunday and
give it. They're all when they when maybe they don't
have trust in the decision makers, you know, doing what's
best for them. So I think there's all the respect

(33:52):
to who Browning is and the effort that he gave,
but also recognition that it just wasn't enough. And when
you're two and three, it's not. It's rarely a good
spot to be in. But this is a weird year
for the AFC. Specifically in two and three keeps you
somewhat alive, and if you're still holding out on the
hope that Joe Burrow could potentially potentially return in December,

(34:13):
getting someone who has at least a chance of being
better and keeping you afloat like that, that has to
mean at least a little bit of something to the
locker room and the leaders in there who are looking
to the coaching staff.

Speaker 7 (34:24):
For leadership above them.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
Let's rewind to Sunday's game against Detroit. It didn't feel
like the defense embarrassed themselves against a really good offense.
But it still didn't feel like a great performance. What
did you take away from the Bengals defense on Sunday
against the Lions.

Speaker 7 (34:41):
Yeah, it was a.

Speaker 12 (34:41):
Little bit similar to the game against the Vikings, obviously
the turnovers with standing, but you know, I think it
was worse when the Lions were given great field position
on multiple occasions, and that's unfortunately where a lot of
the points kind of ended up at. And I think
the pass rush was a bit promising. The Angles got
a big break without Taylor Decker playing the left tackle,

(35:03):
so Trey Henderson went up against the backup and he
did what Trey Henderson did.

Speaker 7 (35:07):
Miles Murphy even.

Speaker 12 (35:08):
Got us solo sack for the first time since he
was a rookie. So yeah, it's like any sort of
flash and promise from the pass rush, it always tends
to have a really good positive effect on the defense
as a whole. But yeah, I think we all came
into this game knowing that the lines were going to
score points regardless of the extra opportunities that the Bengals
are going to give them. They ended up scoring thirty five,

(35:28):
and I think thirty five again like a thirty seventy
Excuse me, because two points with the safety, but thirty
five for the defense, right, And I think that with
the context of how many times they were kind of
put in really bad situations knowing that they were probably
going to give up a round thirty, I think it
was pretty par for the course, which again, thirty five
points is a lot, but this is still relative to
the standards of.

Speaker 5 (35:47):
The Bengals defense.

Speaker 12 (35:48):
And I think they showed a decent amount of flash
throughout the game where it's like, Okay, they weren't too
completely bowled over by an offense that has the capability
of doing that.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
Talking to John Sheeran a weekly guest for us, and
moved him up a day for the second time already
this season, you aren't kidding, it's it's been a weird year.
What do you make of Al Golden, specifically in the
way he's deployed some of the players, like last week,
Logan Wilson has now one hundred percent of the snaps,
Demitrius Knight takes a step back, and maybe the young

(36:18):
guys aren't playing as much as we expected. How do
you how do you? I guess what is your takeaway
from the way that Golden has kind of used those
young players, specifically the young linebackers.

Speaker 12 (36:29):
Yeah, the linebackers are interesting. Like there was a lot
of promise about Brett Carter and he ended up out
snapping Oran Berks in this past game. Right and orin
Burgers have been getting a lot of trust as both
a blitzer and someone who can drop back into coverage, So.

Speaker 5 (36:42):
That was interesting.

Speaker 12 (36:43):
And you know, we talked about how Logan Wilson may
have to take a little bit of a step back,
and then of course he played one hundred percent steps
in this game. So the Lions are an interesting offense
to combat. They run a lot of twelve personnel, more
than most teams in the league. So the Bengals ran
a lot of five to two fronts, so they had
a lot of you know, four or three packages as well.
They only played like their third cornerback camp tay lerc

(37:05):
bred On and played like thirty five percent of the
snaps in this game. So it was a different It
was a different offense for them to combat, and it
required some different personnel. I don't have an issue with
getting Barreck Carter some exposure, especially when Mutrich Snite is
still getting his feet wet and you want to be
mindful of what you want.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
To do against some of these offenses.

Speaker 12 (37:23):
I think my focus was more on why was Miles
Murphy only getting thirteen snaps while Joseph Assig and Kim
Sample were playing more and dropping back in the coverage
probably more than they probably should have. So like that
is still a variable that I don't quite understand. It
needs to be some sort of an adjustment that he
needs to take into two account. But I think at
the very least he's been adaptable in some of these
ways to just adapting to which the next team that

(37:46):
he's going up against.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
Yeah, and looking ahead to Green Bay, a team that
I think is is similar to Detroit but maybe not
as loaded. When you think about this matchup Sunday, where
does your mind instantly outside of Joe Flacco being on
the field, how can the how do the Bengals and
Packers match up? In your mind? What's the most important part.

Speaker 12 (38:08):
I think their offense is not as consistent as maybe
it needs to be the Packers, but their receivers, I mean,
just going even back to the Rogers days, they create
such initial separation off of the snap and off of
the line. Romeo Dobbs does that better than most people

(38:29):
would have expected him to. I think at this point
in his career, they have weapons for Love, and Love
does a really good job of finding his guys on
some of these off platform throws, like he's got a
very live arm, and they separate really well and work
really well against man coverage. So obviously pressuring Love, I mean,
it's the same song and answer that every quarterback right now.

(38:49):
You get pressure in his face, you disrupt his rhythm
and all that stuff. But I think the onus right
now for the Bengals defense is to try to limit
how much inside separation these receivers can get. Specifically on
some of these slants. It works wondrous for that Packers
offense and their timing is impeccable, but it just does
such a great job of separating with their hands and

(39:09):
off the line. So that's something the Bengals quarterbacks DJ Turner,
Dax Hill, Camp Taylor great or jobsonon all he needed
to kind of be aware of, because I mean, their
passing game has the potential of every single week to explode.
It's not always consistent. I think sometimes we need to
disrept the timing on some of those routes. That's so
you can get the upper hand.

Speaker 3 (39:27):
What do you how do you explain Cam Taylor Britt.

Speaker 12 (39:33):
I can't honestly like this is this was the year
where everything needed to kind of click, and he took
it upon himself this offseason to be more accountable. I
think everyone knew that he wasn't his full self last
year when he was kind of, you know, feeling good
about where he was in his career. But he's in
the contract year and he's barely playing for a defense
that I'll be it's just not very good. So if

(39:56):
you if you can't start here and you're supposed to
be in the prime of your career, what.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
Does that say about where you're going to.

Speaker 12 (40:02):
Go from here. So it's it's really now or never
for him to just make the most of the opportunities
that he gets, because you're talking about someone who was
a potential extension candidate a year and a half ago,
and now you're wondering if he's going to get a
second contract as a starter anywhere in the league. Right
it's not just here, but like what he's doing right

(40:23):
now is impacting what his future opportunities will be for
the other thirty one teams so and they noticed that
they know that the Bengals defense is nothing really to
show for and he's not getting opportunities here. So it
could just be a situation where he's not he's just
not a fit within this team, regardless of who the
defensive coordinator is. And maybe he doesn't he doesn't need
a fresh start, but right now, it's just it's hard

(40:43):
to understand how he can't wrap his mind around what
the opportunities in front of him and how he can
he just can't keep.

Speaker 7 (40:48):
His head on straight.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
Talking about the Bengals offense, what do you expect it
to look like with Joe Flacco? What do you think
will be different about it against the Packers?

Speaker 12 (40:59):
Yeah, I think with Jake Browning, obviously you wanted to
go a little bit more under center than you do
with Joe Burrown, and Flacco has a lot of experience
and comfortability with that. He knows how to just turn
his back to the defense and operate play action. I
think right now this offense is the worst in the
league when they operate out a twelve personnel and that

(41:20):
was an emphasis that they wanted, and I think they
have to recognize that they have to recognize that they
don't have the personnel to fulfill the passing game that
they want. But maybe in addition of a new quarterback
who's going to make more rational decisions, would that be
the expectation, that'd be the hope. Maybe you can reinstitute
some of those plays that hadn't been very successful for you,

(41:40):
but a lot more under center, a lot more time.
I think, just the willingness to take advantage of these
one on one deep shots with a sense of timing
right where the balls is not floating there for the
safety or the quarnerbacks just pick off with these rights.
It's been really frustrated, I think for both Jamar Chase
and t Jiggins where they're getting the separation on they're
getting these opportunities that you know, the play calling hasn't

(42:02):
really been that bad in some of these cases, but
the balls is late or the balls floating, and that's
the expectations that a more lively arm in Flacco the
mistakes are going to get there right. Flago has never
been a perfect quarterback in that sense, but just a
better arm that gets the ball out in a more
timely manner, just to give these guys a chance. I
don't think the offense is going to change that much,
but I think you're gonna see a little bit more

(42:22):
rhythm for the quarterback who just kind of knows what.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
He's doing more. The other thing that stood out to
me looking at the snap counts from last week against
Detroit was the split between Chase Brown and Sama JP Ryan.
I thought there were some positives in the run game.
I think it has slowly but surely ticked up a
little bit over the last couple of weeks. Not great,
but slowly but surely ticking up. Does that, you know,

(42:47):
split and the carries mean anything to you, or do
you think there is some progress being made in the
run game?

Speaker 12 (42:55):
I think yeah, like you said, progress is very marginal.
It's not where it needs to be. I think with
Samaj and the opportunities that he's had, he's particularly made
the most of him. I think he's been running really
hard and getting yards up to contact, and I think
the blocking for him has been noticeably better compared.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
To Chase Brown.

Speaker 12 (43:12):
Obviously, the sample size as much larger with Chase Brown,
and this is still not a very good offensive line
in that regard, But I think the opportunities that Smaji
Pieran has had, they've just been slightly better and more favorable,
and that's kind of where you're seeing some of that
production a little bit. And I think also with this
past game with the score being so out of whack,
like I understood why p Runing saw the feel a

(43:33):
little bit more as they were just kind of in
that mode and you know, they almost try to keep
up and everything like that. But p Ran is someone
that you would still trust in obvious passing situations, so
it makes sense to get him on the field and
when the game script is still out of whack. So
that was kind of my thought process with the more
even snap splits and whatnot. But yeah, there still needs

(43:54):
to be a lot more work and just gaining space
for Chase Brown to do what he does because he's
just not been able to do that yet.

Speaker 3 (44:01):
John Shearon A is E Sports appreciate your time and
your flexibility. Where can people follow along with all you
got going on covering the Bengals.

Speaker 12 (44:11):
Yeah, of course it is the Sports dot Com, Backslash
Cincinnati and on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, wherever you get your
short form content. It is the Sports Cincinnati follow us there.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
Awesome, Thanks John, take it easy.

Speaker 7 (44:22):
Thanks.

Speaker 3 (44:22):
That is John Shearon, our guy, and UH hopefully gonna
stick with us the rest of the football season. Usually
every Thursday, but with the weird week this week and
me being out and Tony being gone, we're going to
uh move him up a day. And he was able
to do that, even though it was right in the
middle of the Zach Taylor press conference. I am appreciative

(44:43):
of John for that. Speaking of the Zach Taylor press conference,
with the temperature of things today and reading through some
of the talkbacks, I think it's probably best if we
don't do that today. Probably best if we don't do talkbacks.

(45:04):
I appreciate the passion, I appreciate the desire. I appreciate
and respect that it is an outlet for you to
have your voice heard, but I think we need to
be careful. That being said, I'm not gonna do talkbacks today.
I'm gonna come back and we're gonna play Zach Taylor's

(45:26):
press conference, which features an update that's not quite an
update on Joe Burrow, more information about Joe Flacco and
the plan for him and the Packers, and a whole
lot more that's next right here on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Now your chance to win one thousand dollars.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Brought to you in part by Blood Blight and by
Oakley Greens on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of
the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
Welcome back in two since e three sixty. Here on
ESPN fifteen thirty. I'm Austin Elmore. Just moments ago, Zach
Taylor was at the podium meeting with the media ahead
of this weekend's matchup with the Green Bay Packers, and
as you might imagine, Zach was asked about starting quarterback
Joe FLACCOH.

Speaker 17 (46:15):
Yeah, played him a lot, watch him a lot. Brings great,
great experience, great leadership. His style fits our style of
play too, So excited to get him out there. We'll
start him this week, so he's gonna take all the reps.
Get ready to go. I already spent a lot of
time meeting with us getting at speed, so feel really
good about where he's.

Speaker 18 (46:31):
At, being able to trade for him on Tuesday and
start on.

Speaker 17 (46:36):
I mean, I I don't know him personally, I've only
met him once before he came here. But no, his
game as well, I mean it's putt against some I
don't know how many times a lot of times, and
so very comfortable with his style concepts. He has been
good at things that fit us that we do a
lot of the terminology, there's a bunch of carryover, more

(46:57):
so than I would have anticipated.

Speaker 7 (46:58):
So I feel like we can get him have speak quickly.

Speaker 18 (47:01):
It was always a one time.

Speaker 19 (47:02):
Other things that Al mentioned was that, besides his great
arm strength, is the one who was spending the ball.
He's seen so much like quarterbacks. How much at this
point of the season.

Speaker 7 (47:14):
Does that help you sure?

Speaker 17 (47:15):
I mean, it's different than a young quarterback coming in
trying to learn a system and understand what a defense
is trying to do to challenge you. Now that he's
played Green Bay this year, so he's already gone through
a week of prep.

Speaker 7 (47:27):
So that's the nice part is.

Speaker 17 (47:30):
Now the communication and and the weekly rhythm is maybe different, unique,
but he's already prepared for this opponent, so he gets
a chance to refresh himself on that well. At the
same time just learning our system and our terminology and
our burbage and how we operate. Also knowing that he's
he's playing now, he hasn't played there this year, and
so the crowd and noise and all that stuff is different,
but at least he's got some experience pointing in them.

(47:51):
But yeah, one time before the Colts came here last year.

Speaker 18 (47:56):
In facts with us, you have to scale anything back
because he's only.

Speaker 10 (48:00):
A couple of days.

Speaker 17 (48:01):
We have to be mindful that he hasn't been here
off season training camp.

Speaker 7 (48:05):
The full scope of our system.

Speaker 17 (48:07):
But we're doing everything we can to hit everything we
can possibly hit with him so that we got enough
to go out there and win a football game.

Speaker 7 (48:14):
And so that's that's our objective is.

Speaker 17 (48:16):
Diver offense enough with Joe to be able to go
out there and operate and score points and and find
a way to win the game.

Speaker 20 (48:22):
Specifically, you're just looking at this and saying, hey, we
need to add Joe to the mix here.

Speaker 7 (48:28):
He's a great pastor.

Speaker 17 (48:29):
He's a great pastor, and again, we we've got to
expand all areas of our offense to be better, to
be able to efficient run the football, protect.

Speaker 7 (48:36):
All that kind of stuff.

Speaker 17 (48:38):
But the number one trait you're looking for is a
guy that can operate your system into the football and
Joe has always been a tremendous passer in this league
and have seen it, and so now we've got treminous
weapons that he can he can play around, and so
I'm excited to watch him.

Speaker 18 (48:52):
Doss that ended up on Flacco unfold Monday.

Speaker 17 (48:58):
Just let me know yesterday that that's where was at.
So obviously he asked my opinion of Joe, and I
was excited that if we were able to make it happen,
I'm all on board.

Speaker 7 (49:06):
That would excite me. And so then he just came
and said we got it done.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
Yesterday looked like, what time did he get here? What
were you guys able to do last night to get
ahead start?

Speaker 17 (49:15):
Well, we talked on the phone while he drove. We
had somebody to drive him, he and his wife from Cleveland,
and so we were able to send him the information
to study, talked to him on the phone as he
drove down, gave him a break, let him then come
in facility, and we got a chance to meet last night.

Speaker 18 (49:31):
And at this moment that's about a five hour drive.

Speaker 21 (49:34):
How long was the phone.

Speaker 17 (49:34):
Call, I'm not sure how long it was. We just
tried to cover all the base base pieces of information.
I mean, you'd like to knock out personnel and formations
and motions and the easy stuff and then when you
get in here, get the nuts and bolts. So probably
talked some run game last night, I think on the
phone too, got into the run game plan and just
the easy stuff that he knew, and it all sounds familiar,
and so he's he'll be ready to roll.

Speaker 18 (49:57):
It goes without saying that, you know, what you said
is true.

Speaker 21 (50:00):
It's beneficial for a guy who have already faced a
team just a couple of weeks ago. Why is that
so beneficial in it or like, in what ways has
that been.

Speaker 17 (50:08):
We've done seven weeks, seven days of prep already on
the team and got out there and played and felt
them and understanding what their their line feels like, understand
you know their their the basic cover structures and some
of the things that they tried to do to stress you.
So on top of studying our stuff and watching the tape,
usually the quarterback already knows your offense and so he's

(50:28):
just focused on watching the tape of the opponent.

Speaker 7 (50:31):
Now. At least.

Speaker 17 (50:31):
The one advantage we do have with with bringing Joe
Flacco in here specifically is he's watched tape for a week.
He's played this game he'll still need to do the
same thing because they played two games since then. But
at the same time, it's at least there's in the
back of his mind. Man, I've played these guys and
I have an understanding of how they try to attack
to him.

Speaker 20 (50:49):
Do you feel like trading for Flacco helps promote some
some hope and some confidence for the season.

Speaker 10 (50:55):
As a whole.

Speaker 17 (50:56):
I think everyone's just seen him been there, do that,
you know, and one of Super Bowl, and won a
lot of games and been successful in a lot of
different places, and so it's I can't speak for other people,
but when you bring a guy in here with that
experience and those skins on the wall, I think it's
it's significant and it can mean something to guys, But
they'd have to speak for themselves on that one.

Speaker 16 (51:16):
And then is there any update on Burrow and his
potential to return this season?

Speaker 18 (51:20):
And are these two things connected?

Speaker 17 (51:22):
I do not have any update on on Burroughes.

Speaker 18 (51:26):
Is this still move? Hopefully all get enough winds to
kind of keep off for as long as possible if
Joe k come back. How much of that credist process
you don't want?

Speaker 17 (51:34):
Yeah, our number one focus is winning every game we
can possibly win and go to the playoffs and go
deep in the playoffs. That is one hundred percent of
our focus, regardless of who our quarterback is. That is
that's what we're trying to do.

Speaker 19 (51:45):
Given Joe's age and maybe some of the mobility consurances
that come with and how do you as a play
caller and the architect of the offense work through some of.

Speaker 17 (51:54):
Those challenge Yeah, I mean, I can't speak for Joe
to say that mobility was ever his number one strength
dating back to when I would a coach against him
in twenty twelve and thirteen, I don't know that we
were ever worried about Joe breaking free for a fifteen
yard game. So I think his place style has been
his place all for a long time, and I'm perfectly
fine with that. Obviously, we got to do a great
job around him in the run game and protection and

(52:15):
all that kind of stuff. But he understands, he understands
our concepts already. It's a lot of things he's done,
some things he's called the same, So again, well we'll
do it suits him best. Ultimately, at the end of
the week, what are you not comfortable with? Are there's
some things we've called during the week that you know,
we should put on the shelf, which is never an issue.
We got plenty, so we'll have those conversations to the weekends.

Speaker 18 (52:38):
He was in the draft one year ago.

Speaker 7 (52:41):
Not real. I mean that stuff doesn't. It doesn't really.

Speaker 17 (52:45):
I mean there's been guys that obviously were before me,
I mean Aaron Andrews just before my time.

Speaker 7 (52:50):
So, uh, that that stuff doesn't. I don't put too
much that into anymore.

Speaker 18 (52:56):
To extend their careers as well as they have.

Speaker 17 (52:58):
I think really smart guys, really smart guys that take
care of themselves and.

Speaker 7 (53:03):
Can still throw. I mean, the arm matters.

Speaker 17 (53:05):
You know, some guys do lose, you know, some of
the arm strength as they go on in their career.
And he's one that I don't know, he'd have to
speak for that in terms of what he's lost, but
I know he's still got a lot of power and
there a lot of juice and understanding and when to
throw at the timing. And so I think that those
guys that have that above I mean, he definitely is

(53:27):
classified as above average arm strength, same with Aaron.

Speaker 7 (53:30):
Those guys have a chance to continue to play reaction.

Speaker 17 (53:35):
He seemed excited, you know, the first time I talked
to him, and so I know he was. He was
notified there obviously with their people, and but he seemed
genuinely excited when I spoke to him on the phone
for the first time, and when he got in here
and there you go, all conversations with Jake straightforward, and
Jake was great. Jake's been accountable every step of the way.

(53:55):
He's been understanding every step of the way, accepting for
any decision we want to make. Obviously, he wants to
continue playing and he's going to continue to work hard
to help our football team in any way possible. But
he understands our situation and the plan.

Speaker 18 (54:10):
Jakes the backup then the practice post.

Speaker 19 (54:12):
Yes to you, time to table some things to hammer.

Speaker 16 (54:19):
You have to plug him.

Speaker 18 (54:20):
What you're doing.

Speaker 17 (54:21):
We got twenty four hours in the day each day,
and so we're using every second of it to to
create the best plan. Obviously, we have a great understanding
of who he is and what his strengths are. So
as we were preparing this plan, you know, yesterday midday afternoon, Okay,
visit this or that. Well, I know he can do that,
so let's do that. So there's an element of it.

(54:43):
It's all things that we do. So when our receivers
start everything today, there's all things that we've had in
our plan and we've done and we can we'll continue
to do things that fit our strength is the team
and fit Joe's strengths. Y. Yeah, I mean that that's
that's why we like him and that's why we him
in because he fits what we do. And you don't
have to change much now. You just have to get

(55:05):
him up to speed with the full scope of what
we have.

Speaker 21 (55:08):
In oursal what's the most important quality and a guy
that it would enable him to learn an offense as
quickly as he needs to.

Speaker 17 (55:15):
Well, I think that the mental makeup obviously is critical
to be able to focus.

Speaker 7 (55:18):
In on what's important.

Speaker 17 (55:20):
I'm trying not to get him bogged down and things
that really aren't important that I can say to him
in the headset. I'm trying my best not to take
up his brain power and give him information that at
the end of the day he can hear once in
a headset understand what I'm trying to say. So I'm
just kind of picking what is important, what you want
to stress, what you want to put on his plate.

(55:40):
He's done a great job of taking everything in that
we've given.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
How much of a two way street is that?

Speaker 21 (55:45):
Like you, you know, showing him this is what we do,
as well as him coming back and saying, what about this?

Speaker 18 (55:52):
This is something I've tried.

Speaker 17 (55:53):
That'll get there at some point. You know, I don't
think he's there right now. He's just taking it all
in of what we want to do. And I always
like that die with the quarterbacks always, you know, that's
that's Oftentimes it can be a weekly conversation as we
get in a lot of times it's a Saturday conversation
as we tie up the plan so I can get
my thoughts in order during Saturday and Sunday morning before
I close the game.

Speaker 18 (56:14):
Walking for him the chances of Passion playing this week.

Speaker 17 (56:18):
Yeah, we open the return window. We'llee where he's at
in practices. We I won't make any predictions, but it
was time to get him back up there.

Speaker 18 (56:23):
If do you want him at Frank card or.

Speaker 17 (56:27):
I'm not going to project, We'll just we'll watch him
practice and see where he ends up.

Speaker 20 (56:30):
How quick you make the decision you find out the
trade is happening to Joe's going to start this week.

Speaker 18 (56:35):
Is that a conversation with him? And do you have
to collaborate or.

Speaker 17 (56:39):
That was probably the second sentence I told him, you know,
it's welcome to the club and you were ready to
start you on Sunday.

Speaker 19 (56:45):
Do you have any comparable experiences at your various stops.

Speaker 7 (56:49):
Well, bringing a guy in I had to play immediately.

Speaker 17 (56:54):
Now, bringing guys in that you're trying to teach the offense,
I mean that Mike White and John Clifford. You know,
last week we're in my office on Thursday night, you know,
as we're kind of doing a modified version of this,
you know, trying to get them up to speed and
anything over the past week they had questions on since
they got here. So I mean as a quarterback coach, yeah,
you're always dealing with guys that you're signing during the

(57:15):
season as practice squad or backups, and it's always your
job as a quarterback coach to get them ready as
quickly as possible, to do whatever job it is, and
spend extra time with them. So part of that's been
a little fun for me to be able to go
back to that, you know, and we've got a great
staff that does a great job picking up some slack,
or maybe I'm pushing some stuff off on other guys

(57:36):
that I can just focus on on making sure Joe
and I are in the same page as as we
get ready for the game plan.

Speaker 18 (57:41):
You mentioned you talked to him, you said, you're starting,
You hang up the phone.

Speaker 16 (57:43):
What do you do next with your next move after
you get a brand new starting quarterback?

Speaker 17 (57:49):
What was my I don't know. Yesterday I felt like
I said twenty four hours in a day. I think
there was thirty six hours and yesterday, so I don't recall.
I mean, we then kind of take the plan and
make sure there's nothing quirky in there that call, like,
we can clean some things up that maybe for a
new guy walking in the door it's not necessary. And

(58:10):
so just again nothing that's significant in any way, shape
or form in terms of us defeating Green Bay, but
just making sure everything sounds.

Speaker 18 (58:16):
Smooth, and then there'll be anything different about practice today, you.

Speaker 17 (58:19):
Know, Yeah, well we'll spend a little more time at
the end of practice, a little more time, not full
speed work necessarily, but just voicing some calls. I mean,
that's always the number one challenge you look at a script,
you look at an install, you say in your head
it all sounds easy, and then to say it out
loud can sound differently. The flow, the rhythm of calling
a play. Is this word part of the protection? Is

(58:41):
this a run tag? Is this a route concept? And
so just the flow of how the guys in the
huddle need to hear it.

Speaker 7 (58:47):
The cadence.

Speaker 17 (58:49):
Those are all things that he's experienced before, playing different teams.
Probably not the week of a game, but he's done
a great job handling so far. So we'll spend whatever
time is needed extra. I'm sure he's out on the grass.
Maybe not full speed physical work, but just some some
verbal stuff making sure we feel good about it.

Speaker 22 (59:06):
When you were talking to him on the drive, was
that assume where he could let.

Speaker 17 (59:12):
That was all I We just sent him some documents,
and I had the documents in front of me and we.

Speaker 7 (59:16):
I didn't feel that initially.

Speaker 17 (59:17):
I was thinking we'll FaceTime, and I thought that's a
little awkward to just stare at each other when you're
just having a conversation.

Speaker 7 (59:22):
So we just put on our speakerphone and talked that way.

Speaker 20 (59:25):
About just uh, just a physical time and.

Speaker 7 (59:31):
Extra extra air, extra extra bills or well, no, I mean,
I'm not going to tax Jamaranty. They're there.

Speaker 17 (59:39):
You know, we got to do a great job. I
am mindful. We do have a game next Thursday as well,
so you do have to be mindful with what we're
asking all of our guys to do physically this weekend
next week. And so I'm not gonna I'm not going
to overly tax Jamar and t If anything, I'm going
to make sure that they're they're good to go so
that I won't I'm not gonna do anything. If anything's

(01:00:00):
just standing and catching so they can feel feel the
power of this throw. And kind of the nice thing
about Joe's arm strength is different than a guy maybe
that's got to throw with a ton of anticipation, which
Joe throws a great anticipation, has got a little more
power to make up. So if he's not sure where
the guy is, he's got a little more juice to
make up for it. And put the ball on the

(01:00:21):
spot where the receiver can still have an attempt to go.

Speaker 21 (01:00:23):
Get the fact that you do go to Green Bay
and then have a short turnaround, does that put even
more If this is on the amount of work has
to get done this week in terms of installing every
Now you're.

Speaker 7 (01:00:32):
Focused on one game at a time.

Speaker 17 (01:00:33):
I just I only made that comment because you're asking
about the extra work with receivers, and I have to
be mindful of that from a physical standpoint. But we're
focused on this game, and we'll attack next week when
we get to next week.

Speaker 5 (01:00:46):
What has Michael Carson's mean Before the Cows came us,
you guys talked about you know how much respect you
had for him.

Speaker 18 (01:00:53):
What is he brought to Green Bay's defense?

Speaker 17 (01:00:54):
It's got well, it's a great defense number one, and
with Micah it used to be a great defense. And
and he does a great job affecting the passer. They
all do up front. That's that's a really good unit.
They're well Coach Hafley does a great job, Matt does
a great job. These guys are in sync with each other,
and they do a great job affecting the passer. So
Michael Parsons, obviously elite player in this league, got to

(01:01:15):
be very aware of him. They got other guys you
got to be aware of too.

Speaker 18 (01:01:18):
So big challenge for us, some major house. What's the
play for sports this week?

Speaker 17 (01:01:24):
Start back practicing individual. We'll see how much he can
handle today, see if we increase it tomorrow. But we'll
just take a day to day with him.

Speaker 18 (01:01:31):
Any other guys limited today tomorrow, you.

Speaker 17 (01:01:34):
Know, I'm just gonna be mindful of some of the receivers,
you know, and so just making sure that that limit
them for the week. They'll do some spot work and
then see where we're at.

Speaker 18 (01:01:43):
That's not necessarily.

Speaker 7 (01:01:46):
No no, no, no. Black Out played pretty well against
you in week one. What impression did he make on.

Speaker 17 (01:01:53):
You in that Well, I've always been impressed, you know,
and I think we've got an elite receiving corps that
will call met him very well. And so again he
throws the ball in time, throws it to the locations
supposed to be and again I'm always proud of the
way that Troy gets those guys, and that's a lot
of that. It's important to them do they understand the

(01:02:14):
locations and the timing and when the ball is going
to be out And they do a great job with
their communication with the quarterbacks in that way. So I
just think he's a really good fit with our style
of playing the guys we have.

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
Bengals head coach Zach Taylor, meeting with the media moments
ago and talking about the plan for Joe flaccohos that
it was the second sentence out of his mouth. Hey,
nice to meet you, Good to see you. You're going
to start against the Green Bay Packers. Joe, of course
started against the Packers just a couple of weeks ago
in a Brown's win over Green Bay. Zach told the

(01:02:47):
media that Flacco was driven down to Cincinnati. They sent
a driver up, or sent a car down, or however
you want to say. It was able to give him
the stuff and then drive him and his wife down
to Cincinnati and on the phone it basically install the
game plan and certain aspects of the Bengals offense with

(01:03:07):
Joe on the drive down about three and a half
hours from Cleveland to Cincinnati. That's pretty impressive and extremely impressive.
If Joe Flacco, who I know has seen and heard
and forgotten more football than most people know, if he's
able to retain that and actually be able to run
the offense like that's crazy impressive. It reminds me of

(01:03:28):
the stories of twenty twenty pre draft, when Zach was
installing the offense over Zoom with Joe Burrow when you know,
obviously before they drafted him and before they could meet
in meeting or meet in person, and all the buildings
were closed and all that. Really crazy to think back

(01:03:49):
on a time like that, and really crazy to think
on a time like this for the Bengals and Joe Flacco,
and Zach did mention that the fact that he played
the Packers recently is part to the equation, and I
do think that speaks to the urgency that Zach and
the organization feel towards this moment in time with the

(01:04:09):
Bengals season. I don't know that anybody, maybe even themselves,
expects to go into Green Bay and win on Sunday,
but you do feel like your chances of doing so
are better now than they were before, and ultimately that's
what matters. That's what matters. A couple of numbers on
Joe Flacca. I was reading about this earlier this morning

(01:04:32):
on The Athletic from Paul Danner Junior. I did say
this earlier. Joe Flacco will be the oldest player in
team history when he takes the field for the Bengals
on Sunday, at forty years old. Since he left Baltimore,
Joe Flacco has started thirty two games the Bank. His

(01:04:53):
teams are ten and twenty two. In those games, he
is ten and twenty two and thirty two starts since
he left Baltimore. Talk about his mobility. In those thirty
two starts, he has been sacked eighty times. That obviously
is the biggest red flag of any red flag when

(01:05:16):
it comes to Flacco. I don't even think it's his age.
I don't think it's his arm. I don't think it's
his ability to comprehend and operate the playbook. I think
it's his maneuverability in the pocket, especially when you have
an offensive line that has not performed at the level
necessary for even Burrow or Browning to play good football.

(01:05:37):
That's the big issue, and it's tough. That's never going
to be easy. The other part that I found interesting,
going back to our conversation with John Sheeran, was how
bad the Bengals have been in twelve personnel. Tony has
talked a lot about this over the course of the
season in the offseason, and the Bengals are kind of

(01:05:57):
really pushing that one running to tight end that personnel well.
Their EPA, which is expected points added when they run
the ball out of twelve personnel is minus zero point two.
That's twenty ninth in the NFL. When they run the

(01:06:17):
ball out of eleven personnel, one running back, one tight end,
it's plus zero point one. That's sixteenth in the NFL.
That's a significant swing because you're taking Drew Sample out
of the game and keeping someone else in the game.
Their EPA per pass pass out of twelve personnel is

(01:06:41):
minus zero point eighty five. That is dead last in
the NFL by almost sixty points. They are the Bengals
using twelve personnel at the thirteenth highest rate in the
league so far. So they are repeatedly going into this
well that it doesn't work for them. And I'm getting

(01:07:02):
these numbers from our friend Joe Goodberry on Twitter, who
we have as a friend of the show, and Joe says,
it's time to kill the twelve personnel experience experiment. It's
hard to anchor a large section of your playbook on
the worst player on your offense, and that obviously talking
about Drew Sample. So I wonder if you know, listen,
if we have access to these numbers, the Bengals also

(01:07:25):
got to know. And I do think that clearly there's
been something with the run game that's gotten a little
bit better. Maybe even with Flacco, there's more spread it out.
Get the ball out of the hands quickly, allow your
receivers to win. Work the underneath of the field, and
let's stop trying to fit something, you know, a square
peg into a round hole here, and maybe we can

(01:07:46):
unlock something. I hope that's that sort of self scouting
is happening within the building for the Bengals. We'll take
a break, we'll come back. This is Hour two, brought
to you by Cincy Shirts of Sincy three sixty on
the Home of the Bengals, ESPN fifteenth.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
You've been listening to Football in the NATI on ESPN
fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengalsky.

Speaker 15 (01:08:13):
Cincinnati, make us the number one pre set on your
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Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
Bengals did get some positive injury news earlier today with
the announcement that Lucas Patrick. You might remember him, the
man who was the starting guard in Cleveland for seven
snaps while the Bengals ran the ball well well. He
dealt with a calf injury, lower leg injury. He has
opened up his window to practice. The Bengals have opened

(01:08:56):
that up earlier today. It's a twenty one day window
that he's able to practice before he can come off
of R. I think he can come off of R anytime.
You might have to double check me on that. But
Lucas Patrick, who I think played pretty well at least
as a run defender or as a run blocker in
that first game and at points throughout the preseason, you

(01:09:19):
might be getting him back. And I don't think Jalen
Rivers has been atrocious. I don't think that he's been great.
I think he's a rookie playing with guys next to
him that aren't very good and it's not going to
be easy and also of course learning that quote unquote
strike technique by one Scott Peters. But either way, if
Lucas Patrick comes back and he's able to be anything

(01:09:40):
like he was at least in that first you know
series in Cleveland, I do think that will be a
boost to the Bengals offensive line and specifically that run game,
and so much of the offensive struggles come back to
the run game and going back to what I was
talking about with the twelve personnel and eleven personnel, if
they can find a way to be dependable running the

(01:10:01):
ball and less predictable in certain personnel groupings, that they
can find ways to run it. We saw some more
RPOs this past week against Detroit. I think a lot
more of those will have to happen to get the
run game going a little bit. It's gonna be a
big part of whether or not this team can effectively
run the ball, dependably run the football, and they're gonna

(01:10:23):
have to against Green Bay. Talk to John about their offense,
and Jordan Love is very much a Peaks in a
Valley's quarterback himself, but he's got weapons, and they've got speed,
and we know how bad the Bengals secondary is, and
on top of that, they don't have the best offensive
line in the NFL. But they have an effective run
game with Josh Jacobs. They've got speed, they've got power,

(01:10:46):
they've got really good tight ends and a great one
in Tucker Craft who might be having his breakout season
this year. So there's multiple ways that the Packers offense
can beat you, and you don't necessarily have to have
Jordan Love on his a game to do it. That's
one of the beauties of the Matt Lafleur offense. And
so with that, it even further magnifies the importance of

(01:11:10):
the Bengals being able to play complimentary football on offense,
being able to control the clock, being able to run
the ball, being able to establish drives and get your
defense off the field and give them some time to
get ready for what might be coming from Green Bay.
And complimentary football is not just offense and defense, it's
special teams as well. I did not think Bengals special

(01:11:32):
teams played well on Sunday against Detroit. Zach mentioned this
in his press conference on Monday. You know they starting
the drive on the forty one yard line Detroit was
at one point, you're basically almost already in field goal range.
With their offense, the kick returns have not been great.
There was a weird penalty on the on side kick.

(01:11:52):
Charlie Jones did not look like he was one hundred
percent trying to return kicks last week. Didn't really felt
like there was much juice, didn't really feel like there
was much jew in that position, so that I think
has to They have to play better as well, specifically
the kickoff and kickoff unit and punt unit. Ryan Rico
just kept blasting punts into the end zone last week.

(01:12:13):
At some point, you got to be able to pin
the opponent inside the twenty. You got to be able
to make him catch a ball rather than just letting
it go and letting it bounce into the end zone.
Forced them to at the bare minimum field the punt
or punt it out of bounds near the end zone.

(01:12:33):
He did not have a good day on Sunday, nor
did the kick and kick return teams on Sunday. What
else is going on? How about Jermaine Pratt? Did you
see this former Bengal linebacker and the man who broke
the curse with his interception of Derek Carr in that
wild card game in the twenty twenty one playoffs. He

(01:12:56):
was released by the Raiders earlier this week and this
morning signed a one year deal with guess who, the
Indianapolis Colts. That's right, Jermaine Pratt reuniting with old friend
Lou and Arumo in Indianapolis. There are reports out there
that several teams called interested in Jermaine Pratt, but he

(01:13:18):
settles on Lou Narumo and the Colts as he goes
to Indianapolis. Not a surprise there, I don't think so.
I don't think it's a big surprise, but either way,
that's the case elsewhere in sports I mentioned earlier. Major
League Baseball playoffs continue today. They get started in just
over an hour for the Tigers and the Mariners, Game

(01:13:40):
four in that set, with Seattle leading the series two
games to one. What else, Jerry Jones was fined two
hundred and fifty thousand dollars for flipping off a fan,
which I think is just a hilarious headline. Two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars for flip off a fan at

(01:14:01):
the game last week, and Jerry tried to say that
he meant to give him a thumbs up, but it
accidentally gave him his middle finger.

Speaker 5 (01:14:10):
What now.

Speaker 3 (01:14:12):
I don't know what it's like to be an old man,
and I'm sure there are things that you do that
you can't control, and there are the parts of life
that just aren't as easy as they used to be.
And Jerry Jones is an old man. But I think
for the most part, you can differentiate between the thumb
and the middle finger. Jerry apparently could not, and it's
going to cost him two hundred and fifty thousand dollars,

(01:14:34):
which to Jerry Jones is like twenty five cents, but
very funny to me that the NFL find him that
much money for flipping off a fan. Later on today,
Moegger in from three to six. He'll talk to us
just under an hour from right now for quick hits,

(01:14:55):
and after that it's the Bengals Game Plan Show, Dan
Horde Dave Lapham from six to eight this evening. They'll
be joined by Bengals wide receiver andre Yoshivash, So keep
an eye out for that coming up this evening right
here on ESPN fifteen thirty. When we get back, though,
we'll talk to James Rapine, and James generous with his

(01:15:18):
time today because I know he's working. As we speak.
He is at Bengals practice. Joe Flacco is there. He's
probably trying to get the certain you know, the video
portions of when he can and can't video practice, and
he got to do the interviews and all this other
stuff that James is working on. But James said, you

(01:15:40):
know what, if you need me at two o'clock, I
can do two o'clock. So I said, James, I need
you at two o'clock. He actually said two oh five.
That's why I'm killing time right now because I'm trying
to give him a couple of extra minutes. But that's
the case. So we'll talk to James, and then finally
I'll make fun of Nick crawling the Reds. Maybe not
make fun, but at least get to figure out the

(01:16:05):
path or the way forward for the Reds, at least
their plans moving into the twenty twenty six season and
what they plan to do and how they you know,
try to figure out the budget and all that. We'll
get into all that in hour three as well. Hour
two brought to you by Cincy Shirts. Go to Cincy

(01:16:26):
Shirts dot com, check out their retail locations and get
the gotta get Flaco T shirts available at their retail
locations and Sincy Shirts dot com. We'll take a break.
When we come back, we'll talk to James Rapine from
Allbengals dot com, Sports Illustrated, Locked on Bengals podcast The
Whole nine Yards. James joins us then on ESPN fifteen

(01:16:49):
to thirty. More than a few of our patients have been.

Speaker 15 (01:16:53):
This is Pennstation East Coast sub since e three to
sixty of About Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in part by
pennst eastco Subs, handcrafted hot grilled subs, fresh cut fries
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Speaker 3 (01:17:16):
You know, Penn Station not the only one that's all
about good taste. We're about good taste here too, at
Sincy three sixty. And that's why we talk to our
friend James Rapine, who is at the practice fields right
now adjacent to Peikur Stadium, with eyes on Joe Flacco,
the Bengals new starting quarterback. James, how is Joe looking?

Speaker 22 (01:17:40):
He looks like he's getting warmed up, Buddie and walking
out of practice now he's getting warmed up. He looks
exactly how you'd expect a franchise quarterback.

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
Pellow, a franchise quarterback to look when you heard that
not only are the Bengals acquiring Joe Flacco, but Joe
Flack is starting the game on Sunday against the packers.
What was your immediate reaction?

Speaker 22 (01:18:06):
What weird timeline are we in? You know, I think
that's the first one. Like it's a very unique situation.
I mean, I'm walking back right now from the practice
fields and I just see that the Joe Burrah parking spot,
and I'm like, how did.

Speaker 10 (01:18:20):
We go from Joe versus Joe week one to this?

Speaker 16 (01:18:24):
Right?

Speaker 22 (01:18:25):
Well, there's something that It's something the Bengals had to do.
They had to do something. And when I see the
name Sam Howell, for example, Well, I would prefer Joe
Flacco because I do think he's physically Like everyone's talking
about how he can't move when when was Jake Browning?
Michael Vick Like that was his pocket movement such a factor.

(01:18:45):
I think that Joe Flacco's arms is unique, and so
it gives them a chance, which, given how the last
three games have gone, all you can ask.

Speaker 10 (01:18:55):
For is a chance.

Speaker 3 (01:18:57):
Did Zach Taylor hint to how the offense might be
different with Joe Flacco than Jake Browning? Do you think
it's going to be a very vanilla version of the
offense considering the turnaround?

Speaker 22 (01:19:10):
I wonder that I think I don't necessarily think it
has to be because Joe has been there, done that,
and I think that gives him the edge over some
of these other options. Now, terminology wise, is it going
to be perfect on Sunday? It's not like there's just
no way to do that. But you're dealing with the
guy that has seen it all, that has played on

(01:19:32):
the biggest stages, that has been on the road countless times.
You know, I've played the Bengals here at pay Corpse Stadium,
what twenty times or so, So like, he is used
to road environments, loud crowds, all of those things. So
do I think that they can get by with it
and figure it out on the fly? I do, because
he's that experienced and comes with a good attitude in mindset.

(01:19:55):
So I don't think.

Speaker 10 (01:19:56):
That's going to necessarily be a major issue on Sunday.

Speaker 22 (01:20:00):
But whether or not that helps them in the win
lost columns.

Speaker 10 (01:20:03):
A whole nother story.

Speaker 3 (01:20:05):
That's the thing, because you're balancing, Okay, they did something
that's better than nothing, but do the Bengals plus Joe
Burrow equal hope? Well, Joe Burrow, I'm going to do
that a lot of me too.

Speaker 10 (01:20:21):
I typed.

Speaker 22 (01:20:21):
I literally just tweeted out something and type Joe Burrow
and realized that caught myself and put in Flacco like
it's it's going to happen because the Bengals are banking
on Joe again.

Speaker 10 (01:20:30):
It's just a different Joe. And uh yeah, I do
think there's hope.

Speaker 22 (01:20:35):
Now, this hope can fade very very fast. A couple
of weeks ago, there was hope that a Jay can
hold it down. We've been in this position before.

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
We're two and zero.

Speaker 22 (01:20:44):
He battled back, and we came back and handled handed
the Jags, which happens to be their only loss of
the year. Now, like that was the mindset with these
guys going into that Minnesota game, and well that didn't
work out, and then it didn't work out the next week,
and then it didn't work out the next time.

Speaker 10 (01:21:00):
So they.

Speaker 22 (01:21:02):
They're gonna rally around Joe Flacco. Whether or not that
gets huge results, we'll see. I will say this though,
it will be better. I'm confident in that, Like there
is no way. Like Jake Browning was so bad and
I hate this for him because he's a nice guy
and he was walking out probably three minutes before Joe

(01:21:23):
Flacco did for practice more I'll wait and then he's
walking out and that was probably.

Speaker 10 (01:21:26):
The loneliest walk ever because he knew who we were
waiting on. And it's like, man, it was so bad.
He missed Jamar wide open.

Speaker 22 (01:21:36):
And everyone blames the offensive line, but if you really look,
there were plays to be made the past couple of
weeks and they weren't made and that has to change.
Whether or not it will result and wins, I don't know,
but that part needs to change because the Bengals they
should still be an entertaining football team on offense, and
they've been anything but over the past three weeks.

Speaker 3 (01:21:56):
Do you think there were some positives to take away
from the offense as a whole, from the way that
they played against Detroit or do you feel like it
was just garbage time Detroit was injured and it just
kind of happened.

Speaker 22 (01:22:08):
Yeah, that it was that graverage time I barely counted.
I mean, I feel like the Lions were kind of sleepwalking.
You know, they knew early on in.

Speaker 10 (01:22:20):
This game what they were dealing with that.

Speaker 22 (01:22:24):
It just wasn't a true threat, and you didn't see
them go forward on fourth down. They were just kind
of going through the motions, even Dan Campbell, I thought
to an extent, you know, leading the way on the
way he does, it wasn't as aggressive. So yeah, I
think I didn't put a ton of stock in that,
And that's why a couple of weeks ago I was
on the look to find another option at quarterback, just

(01:22:47):
in case Jake doesn't work, so you have another option
because you can't turn to Brett Ripping. I wasn't calling
for Brett Rippon on Sunday.

Speaker 19 (01:22:57):
I was.

Speaker 10 (01:22:57):
You can't.

Speaker 22 (01:23:00):
Sure, and I think a lot of people were. But
I know how that would have looked too and it
wouldn't have been any better.

Speaker 7 (01:23:05):
And so that's.

Speaker 10 (01:23:07):
That's why this was a necessary move for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:23:10):
What about defensively because you know, I felt like they
were okay, they weren't great, The Lions were sleepwalking a
little bit. But were there any positives that you took
away from the defense that maybe they can use going
into Green Bay.

Speaker 16 (01:23:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 22 (01:23:26):
I think that's why this move makes sense to me.
So you can evaluate everyone like you may lead to
winning games and you're hoping you catch lightning in a
bottle and you get the twenty twenty three Flacco impact
where you go on a run here and you get
the better Joe Joe Burrow back with a chance at
making a playoff run. But regardless, this defense, I don't

(01:23:48):
even know how you evaluate him, because I think I'm
encouraged by what I've seen over the past few weeks.
But it wasn't great and they've been put in such
awful spots that it's really tough to blame them for
anything really, And I do think they lack game changers.
Outside of Trey Hendrickson, there's just notn't many guys that

(01:24:08):
are gonna all right, we need to.

Speaker 10 (01:24:09):
Play here, let's go make it.

Speaker 22 (01:24:12):
But let's see, well let's see if that's actually the case,
and let's see if the defense could come together when
they're not looking up at a deficit where this offense
just is incapable of overcoming it. So, yeah, I'm encouraged
by some of the things. I thought the pressure the
other day was a very real thing. They were solid
against the run, but again, I think the Lions were

(01:24:36):
kind of sleepwalking. And so before I put a ton
of stock in that, let's see it on a normal
game script. For maybe the Bengals get a lead in
the first quarter, maybe score.

Speaker 10 (01:24:44):
A touchdown in the first quarter or first half.

Speaker 22 (01:24:47):
It would be nice to see and evaluate this defense
in a normal game like setting, which we just haven't
seen since the Jacksonville.

Speaker 3 (01:24:55):
Game in Week two. I think it's fair to say
that the Bengals secondary, and specifically they're cornerbacks, are much maligned.
What do you what's the vibe from that group in
that corner of the locker room when it comes to
their performance. Obviously Cam Taylor Britt not playing well. I
think much was expected out of that group and they
aren't meeting that expectation. What's the feeling you get from

(01:25:19):
that secondary overall?

Speaker 22 (01:25:23):
I don't think the secondary has been, you know, dreadful.
I think that you're right, Cam Taylor Britt. It's been
tough for him. It's been tough for a secondary that
when you don't get any pressure up front, you're gonna
have to deal with that cover and cover cover. But overall,
like I was encouraged by DJ Turner the other the

(01:25:45):
other day, I think Dax Hill has played pretty darn
well considering the circumstances and considering the lack of pressure. Now,
is he a true Pro Bowl game changer? I haven't
seen that so I think he's a solid starting NFL
corner I have seen that, and so that's what's tough is.

Speaker 3 (01:26:05):
You can have.

Speaker 22 (01:26:05):
Multiple solid starting cornerbacks, but if they have to cover
for so long because the pass rush isn't getting home consistently,
or because you're down by a bunch of points so
you're not going to get the opportunity to make plays
on the ball, well, then.

Speaker 10 (01:26:19):
It's really tough to judge.

Speaker 22 (01:26:20):
So I think it's a mixture, a mixed bag because
you throw in Cam Taylor Britt and it's like he's
certainly underachieved at this point. But DJ Turner and Dax Sell,
the Michigan guys, I think you're a big Michigan fan.
They've impressed me for the most part this season.

Speaker 3 (01:26:36):
Yeah, and they don't even know what plays are coming.
So that's a big deal for them to be able
to take a step forward with that look ahead to
Green Bay. What's the biggest thing the Bengals have to
do defensively to slow down the Packers in your opinion?

Speaker 22 (01:26:55):
Man, you know they would say the general stopped the route,
and obviously you can't let Ash Jacobs go off.

Speaker 10 (01:27:02):
You tend to agree there, but to.

Speaker 22 (01:27:04):
Me, this is sort of got to be how they play,
Like in a normal game script, Let's say the Bengals
are in the game and it's ten to seven or
thirteen to ten.

Speaker 10 (01:27:15):
Or something like that going into third quarter.

Speaker 22 (01:27:17):
Create a little chaos, get after make Jordan Love throw
the ball earlier than he wants to, or hold the
ball longer than he wants to, and get a strip
sack or get a tackle for loss that puts them
behind the change the big plays like that, I think
that's sort of what they need, which is a high
variance because if you're not getting them, then you're gonna
give up a bunch of yards and you could struggle

(01:27:39):
at times. But like my ideal Bengals defense like that,
realistically would be a defense that's opportunistic, that cashes in
on their chances of making big plays and that could
lead to stops or turnovers and you go from there.
So I would say turnovers, You're gonna have to go
on the road and force multiple turnovers and give this
offense extra chances to get some momentum and get into

(01:28:02):
a rhythm on.

Speaker 3 (01:28:03):
The other side of the ball. Green Bay is very
good defensively, maybe the best defense the Bengals will face
this season or up until this point. Offensively, I know
that the bar is very low. It's maybe just don't
turn it over. But is there anything else that stands
out to you of like, Okay, this is a prerequisite
to having a successful offensive day.

Speaker 22 (01:28:27):
Yeah, it's so it's so simple, but like, just like,
what should the strength of the Bengals be? Like if
you went high level, like the.

Speaker 3 (01:28:37):
Strength of the Bengals, what is it throwing the ball?

Speaker 22 (01:28:42):
It's their weapons, right, And so like I'm sick and
tired of like like T Higgins, it's production this year.
It's like it's like T Wiggins, it's like some random
receiver that you've never heard of.

Speaker 10 (01:28:56):
And that's what it is. And that's not a knock
on tea. That's a knock on the offense. That can't
be the case.

Speaker 22 (01:29:02):
He needs to be a game changer. They paid him
to be a game changer. He's capable of being a
game changer. Obviously, that goes with Jamar Chase.

Speaker 12 (01:29:09):
But it isn't just those guys, Like.

Speaker 22 (01:29:11):
It's not like Jake was using Mike Sicki. Well, up
until the other day, Andre Yozabosh was on a note
card and like Chase Brown has had a down year
compared to where expectations were coming into this season, Like
everyone on offense is underachieved. So let your playmakers be
playmakers and if you can get to that, however you
do it, I don't care if it's under center, shotgun,

(01:29:33):
play action, quick screens, quick, get your guys in space,
beat balls with Flacco and the moon ball, Like, I
don't really care how but those guys got to touch
the ball early and often, because that's what's going to
carry you. If you're going to go on a run here,
it's going to be the offense. And that sounds insane
because they've scored thirty seven points in three games and
all four of their touchdowns over the last three games

(01:29:54):
came in garbage time. But that's their reality and I
think they know that, and that's why they went and
they got Joe Flacco because they needed someone that had
the arm, talent and had seen enough in this league
to get the ball to their playmakers. Because if they're
going to go on a run, their playmakers are going
to be the reason why, no.

Speaker 3 (01:30:11):
Doubt about it. James Rapine All all Bengals, Bengals talk
Cincinnati Bengals Talk. Run through the gambit here?

Speaker 10 (01:30:20):
What is it?

Speaker 3 (01:30:21):
You got me confused? I know, I do.

Speaker 10 (01:30:24):
It's all right, I know, I know.

Speaker 22 (01:30:25):
Locked on Bengals, Locked on Bengals, Cincinnati Bengals Talk.

Speaker 10 (01:30:31):
Boom, there you go. Three headed monster, all right, wonderful
head monster?

Speaker 22 (01:30:36):
What they call that? Joe Flacco, Jamar Chase and T Higgins.
The three headed monster.

Speaker 3 (01:30:41):
That is a monster. Indeed, James, thanks for making some
time for me today. Have a great day.

Speaker 10 (01:30:47):
You're the man.

Speaker 3 (01:30:48):
Appreciate your That is James Rapine from Bengals Talk dot com.
We'll take a break, we'll come back. We'll get into
the Reds and what Nick Krawl said when he met
with the media and what that might mean for the
Reds future. That's next. This is since He three to
sixty hour three, brought to you by Penn Station on

(01:31:08):
the hull of the Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 15 (01:31:11):
Now your chance to win one thousand and three sixty
is back on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 3 (01:31:37):
Welcome back, Since He three sixty ESPN fifteen thirty. I'm
Austin Elmore planning on talking to Moegor about twenty minutes
from right now, twenty five minutes from right now. He's
in this afternoon three to six for the mo Egger
Radio Show. After that'll be the The Bengals game Plan
Show with Dan Horden Dave Lapham. They will be joined

(01:31:58):
by Bengals wide receiver andre Yoshivash during the show. This evening,
let's switch gears to the Reds. We haven't talked that
much about them because we haven't known that much. I
think we all have a lot of opinions about the
direction the franchise needs to go. Those opinions are also
pretty much the same thing we've been saying about them

(01:32:19):
for the last several years, in the last several off seasons.
And so the end of the year press conference or
meet with the media happened earlier this week between Nick Krawl,
Brad Metter and the writers they cover the team and
Mike Petralia, our friend. He put together a list of

(01:32:40):
takeaways from that conversation. Now, I haven't seen a video this.
I didn't see that it was live streamed or anything.
I could be wrong. To my knowledge, there's no audio
of it, but Mike put the takeaways from it on
social media. The first one is that Terry Francona's staff

(01:33:01):
has been offered to remain in full for twenty twenty six.
I disagree with this. Now I have no problem with
Derek Johnson, and Derek has a role that's far beyond
just major league pitching coach. He's the director of pitching
for the organization. If there is one strength for this organization,

(01:33:22):
it has been their ability to develop pitchers. That is
a strength. It will be a strength of theirs going
into next season. They deserve credit for that. Derek Johnson
deserves credit for that. But I was told that I
should expect changes on this coaching staff going into next year,
and apparently that's changed. And the reason I disagree with

(01:33:47):
it is because many of the same issues that we
saw with this team this year were issues in the
David bell era and there were holdovers from the day
David bell Era. Colin Cowgill j R. House Freddie Benaviti's
Now Freddie seems like a lovely guy and is beloved

(01:34:10):
in the clubhouse and one of Joey Vado's favorite people
of all time. But Freddie is charged with the infield defense.
That's what he does. He coordinates that infield and works
specifically with those infielders. What is constantly a weakness for
this team enfield defense. The infield defense has been so

(01:34:30):
bad that they had to go and trade for a
Gold Glover. Ellie de la Cruz had an awful season
defensively his worst in a lot of different metrics. He
got better towards the end, but Ellie was not great.
Matt McClean was okay, but you saw the way he
performed in the playoffs wasn't wonderful. Spencer Steer was a

(01:34:51):
mixed bag. He would make these great diving plays but
couldn't dig a ball out of the dirt. The infield
defense never felt like it was strength unless the ball
was hit to key Brian Hayes, and then you felt okay.
I felt like they could use a breath of fresh
air when it comes to that, then we look at JR. House,

(01:35:12):
who does catching. Jose Travino comes in as a Platinum
Glove winner with his time previously in New York. I
don't know the numbers in front of me, so I
could be totally off on this, but did ever feel
like the Reds could throw out runners? Very rarely did
they throw out runners? Very rarely did defense feel like

(01:35:37):
a plus for Reds catchers, And I do think Travino
plays a role and Stevenson plays a role in their
ability to work with pitchers and develop pitchers, and I
think there's value in that. But also there is a
hole in the game, which is the Reds can be
run on because of their lack of arm at the

(01:35:58):
catcher position. To mention, JayR. House as a third base
coach more than once left you questioning his decision making
on whether or not to send a runner. Then you
go out to the outfield coach and first base coach,
Colin Cowgill. Colin played in the major leagues and by
all means a really cool guy, and I think this

(01:36:19):
guy might have the best case for staying, especially the
work he's done with TJ. Friedle, with Will Benson and
with noel Vie Martez the outfield coach. But still I
think there's questions about a lot of it. And I
was surprised to see that so much of the staff

(01:36:41):
was in. The entire staff was invited back in twenty
twenty six. I was a little surprised by that. What's
next on the list of takeaways, the young Arms coming
off of health issues, which would be Chase Burns, Rhet Louder,
Brandon Williams and others. Those will be managed closely early

(01:37:04):
on in twenty twenty six. Not a surprise, they said.
Ellie de la Cruz is in line to be the
shortstop again in twenty twenty six. As he continues to
address his defense. Nick Krawl was asked if there had
been any conversations about it, and he said not to
this point, so that to me leaves the door open

(01:37:24):
to they might have conversations about it. We talked to
Charlie Goldsmith last Friday and he said it will be
a conversation that was prior to the conversation with Nick
Krawl that we're referencing right now. I've always been, hey,
let Ellie be your shortstop, let him work through it
type of guy. But defensively, what he showed this year

(01:37:50):
made me think, and especially the way that noel Vie
Marte transitioned to the outfield, made me think maybe it
is best for Ellie to move to the outfield. I've
always thought that the ideal situation would be Matt McClain
moves to shortstop, Ellie moves to the outfield, you get
power and defense and you don't lose it in those

(01:38:13):
two big positions. But now that's all kind of thrown
into a tizzy because Matt McClain's not a guarantee. You
can't be taken seriously if you're Terry Francona and the Reds.
If you go into spring training in twenty twenty six
and Matt McClain is given the starting spot at second base,

(01:38:34):
why should he be given it? He did nothing to
earn it this year. You know, McClain talked about that
postgame of the Dodgers series in La saying, I know
it's probably hard to put my name in that lineup
at times. The dude has to prove something coming into
training spring training next year, wouldn't you think because salth

(01:38:57):
Stewart is going to get a shot, I would hope
Spencer Steer could play second if he really needed him to.
Gavin Lux is still there, although I don't know anybody
gets really fired up about his defense, but still, like
Matt McClain is a huge question mark. So it makes
moving Ellie a lot harder if you're going to replace

(01:39:17):
him with Matt McClain, who defensively would be fine, but
offensively is a complete sinkhole. There needs to be a
change there for McClain. And the other thing, too, is
is Ellie's got to decide what type of hit or
he wants to be. You know, I saw that almost
every Red's batter lost bat speed this year. I didn't

(01:39:40):
even touch on Chris Valaka. I'll give here. Listen, I'll
give Chris Balaka a pass because it's year number one
and I don't think he had a ton of talent,
and I do think it's too early to come to
a decision on Chris Valaka in his style one year
into his approach, so I'll give him a pass. I also,
I don't think it's entirely his fault because of the

(01:40:03):
way that Nick Crawl and Bradmetter are choosing to build
the team. It's their plan. He follows their plan, So
I don't put all the blame at the feet of
Chris Valka for their offensive struggles. But I was a
little concerned that, Hey, you couldn't get Matt McLain out
of that slump. Hey you took Ellie De la Cruz's
power away. Ellie has to decide what type of player

(01:40:24):
he wants to be. Does he want to be on base?
Does he want to steal bases? Does he want to
hit for average? Or does he want to hit for power.
He's a rare type of player that can do both,
but it seems like it's one or the other. So
can he tap into a consistency that allows him to
be both or can he choose one side and just

(01:40:46):
be that? And can the Reds let him be a
dude that hits for power? Maybe he strikes out more,
maybe you adjust the lineup. I don't know. Continuing on
the takeaways here, Matt McClain is looking forward to a
full offseason healthy after disappointing twenty twenty five Shocker. South
Stewart has a lot of room for growth and will
compete for the first base and third base spot. Quote

(01:41:08):
learning to grow his whole game first base, third base? Okay,
So why'd you trade for key Brian Hayes if you're
going to allow south Stewart to compete for third base?
I feel like Spencer Steers is a pretty good option
at first But okay, if you want to put sal there,
that's fine. If you move Spencer to the outfield, okay,

(01:41:31):
all right, I can see the vision a little bit there,
but again you're banking on health and production without depth. TJ.
Friedel is a solid candidate to return to center field,
as the team monitors his speed and legs to keep
him fresh. I do remember uh Crawl talking about this

(01:41:53):
and talking about the numbers for TJ. Friedle with his
speed and all that, maybe not being as can system
as they'd like and working on that. I've always felt
like Friedo would be better often in one of the
corner outfield spots. There was a time this year where
I was like, I don't know if I'd put Friedo
on center anymore as much I would just put Benson

(01:42:15):
out there and find somewhere else for Freedom to play.
But I get it, I get where they're at. Cees
remember him. Carlin Metter said he'll compete for a roster
spot first base and third base in twenty twenty six
spring training. Okay, good for Ces. Hope he finds he's
like Kyle Pitts. He's the Kyle Pitts of the Reds.
Every year we want to buy in and believe in.

(01:42:36):
Cees never shows it. Red's free agents are Emilio Pagan,
Nick Martinez, Miguel and Dujar, Austin Hayes, Scott Barlow, Zach Lttel,
Wade Miley, and Brent Suter. Barlow and Suitor both have options.
I would imagine the Reds will pick up the option
on Barlow. Don't know about Suitor. The only forty man

(01:43:00):
roster players set for the Arizona Fall League, as Red Louder.
We've known that noelvie Marte will continue to work on
right field in the Dominican Winter League. He played in
that league last year. Quote frequency of contact, end quote
in power is something that needs addressed, quote across the board,
all right. And finally, the free agent budget hasn't been

(01:43:25):
set yet, so they don't know how much money they
are they have to spend on players in free agency.
And you just mentioned, you just heard all those pitchers
that they have that are going to be free agents.
That's a major issue. The bullpen in and of itself,
is going to be a major issue. Number one, the

(01:43:45):
numbers for bullpen arms have skyrocketed. They're very very high.
The cost of bullpen arms have skyrocketed. And secondly, that
was what got the regend of the playoffs this year.
Right now, I I think it's like Santian and Connor
Phillips and one other guy in the bullpen, Graham Ashcraft.

(01:44:09):
Those are like your three to build around. They're going
to have to address that position and it's going to
be costly. So to me, all of this conversation from
this week basically turns to, Yeah, we're probably going to
run it back. We'll probably do what we've been doing.

(01:44:30):
I hope that's not the case. I hope they proved
me wrong. I hope they don't blame it on bad
luck and injuries. You know, the Bengals blamed last year
on bad luck and injuries, and they said, oh, we
run it back with mostly the same group, mostly the
same people will get better. Well, he had another injury,

(01:44:50):
and here you are, and it's not just bad luck,
it's bad players. Fired a coach, still got bad players.
Keep a coach still got bad players. Got to fix that.
This is a huge offseason for this ball club because
I don't think they're gonna play baseball in twenty twenty seven,

(01:45:10):
and I don't think Terry Francona is gonna manage beyond
this year. So it's either now or never for Terry
Francona and the Reds take a break, We'll come back.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 5 (01:45:21):
Still use Alexa. What's going on in baseball?

Speaker 1 (01:45:24):
Getting ESPN fifteen thirty from iHeartRadio.

Speaker 3 (01:45:35):
Since he three to sixty. ESPN fifteen thirty catching up
on stuff that I wasn't able to get to yesterday
with the Flacco news. And the other terrible news was
Andrew Whitworth on the Pat McAfee show yesterday or two

(01:45:57):
days ago, or however many days ago.

Speaker 10 (01:45:59):
It was.

Speaker 3 (01:46:00):
They were playing a game to figure out how ass
a team is, and the Bengals got brought up about
how ass are the Bengals. Well, here's how the former
Bengal Andrew Whitworth answered that question.

Speaker 5 (01:46:13):
I'm gonna go somewhat ass just because they don't have
Joe Burrow.

Speaker 10 (01:46:15):
That's fair.

Speaker 5 (01:46:16):
But I will say this, you could go watch the
last three plays of the game against the Cleveland Browns
in four minute offense where they're trying to secure the game.
Those three snaps are maybe the worst three snaps I've
ever seen a physical football from an offensive line of
trying to win out a game. The entire offensive line
is moving backwards those three snaps and the running backs
getting hit as he's taken handoffs. That told me that
if we don't have Joe Burrow and we got to

(01:46:37):
rely on running the football, we got a lot of
freaking issues. And I think that's what you see. Is
this all on Jake Brownie to do something. And I
don't think Jake Browning's built.

Speaker 3 (01:46:45):
That's Andrew Whitworth talking about the Bengals offense, and yeah,
that pretty much sums it up right, And to me,
I have said it many times. I know I sound
like a broken record. There is a lack of physicality
up front, and there is an inability to run the ball.

(01:47:06):
And the physicality thing is it's an attitude like you
have to have that. It has to be a part
of your attitude, a part of your mentality. And I
think part of what Scott Peters tries to teach with
the strike technique is more about finesse and more about
I don't know UFC type of fighting when sometimes you

(01:47:28):
got to get your pad levels low, get your hands
on somebody and control them. And I'm not gonna sit
here and pretend to be an expert on the strike technique.
Very few people are but there seems to be an
offense and an offensive line going in the wrong direction,
both physically and figuratively. I don't understand. Whitworth was also

(01:47:52):
asked about the Bengals offensive line in the second cut
that I have and Drew. I might be springing this
on you, but the second cut from Andrew, Whitworth talked
about where the Bengals should be spending more of their money.

Speaker 5 (01:48:07):
You know, I would like to see him spend it
in the offensive line room. That's where I think they
should spend a little more money.

Speaker 18 (01:48:11):
Hey, I've tried, though.

Speaker 22 (01:48:12):
We had a graphic last week about them drafting and
spending money and it just for something.

Speaker 5 (01:48:16):
We've been terrible at it. So that's the problem.

Speaker 3 (01:48:17):
So that is the thing.

Speaker 7 (01:48:18):
You get the wrong guys, wrong group.

Speaker 5 (01:48:19):
What is since twenty eleven that they've drafted an offensive
lineman and he's signed a second contract. I want you
to think about that. Fourteen years since they've drafted an
old lineman and he's actually signed a second contract.

Speaker 7 (01:48:30):
Is it scheme building evaluation?

Speaker 5 (01:48:32):
I think it's evaluation if you look at it. I'm
gonna throwing myself in the mix. Twenty eleven, since they
drafted a guy and he resigned a contract, and they've
let Kevin Zeitler and myself walk in free agency. So
if you can't draft an offensive lineman and then you've
let guys leave who continue to go elsewhere and win,
you clearly have an evaluation problem of the priority of
the position.

Speaker 3 (01:48:50):
That's great stuff from Andrew Whitworth, and it's good to
hear it straight from the horse's mouth, like this is
a dude who is a perfect example. And there are
several about how you have ruggled with offensive lineman. You've
gone through a bunch of offensive line coaches, You've not
been able to draft them. All of it is an issue,
and all of it is part of the reason why
you can't run the football. And you just had to

(01:49:12):
trade for a forty year old Joe Flacco because you
couldn't protect your franchise quarterback. At what point does Duke
Tobin wake up in the middle of the night with
a in a cold sweat, thinking, why aren't I protecting
my quarterbacks? How can I get better at the offensive

(01:49:33):
line and evalue any of the offensive line. At some point,
something's got to change, and they have tried, but it
doesn't work, so you got to keep searching for solutions.
We'll take a break, we'll come back. Quick Hits is
next on ESPN fifteen thirty from the schmid Heating temp.

Speaker 15 (01:49:51):
Since He three sixty continues on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati's
sports station.

Speaker 3 (01:49:58):
It's time for since He Quick Hits. We are looking
for Mo and we found him. Hello Mo, how's it going?

Speaker 7 (01:50:07):
You know what?

Speaker 3 (01:50:08):
It's not great? No, it's not great. I want to
be honest with you. Yeah.

Speaker 16 (01:50:11):
Not an awesome day. No, not an awesome couple of days. No,
you're looking for Moo.

Speaker 3 (01:50:20):
I'm looking for what do you want to talk about?
I mean we talked a little bit about on your yesterday.
Oh yeah, well let's start with your show this afternoon.
I don't think there's a total appreciation for what the Bengals.
The point the Bengals got to when they decided to
call and trade for Joe Flacco. What do you mean

(01:50:40):
by that?

Speaker 16 (01:50:41):
Do you understand this franchise, which values continuity more than
anything else, just asked a quarterback to show up on
Tuesday and start a game, not in December, not like hey,
we're playing out the string, but start a game where
they feel like it can turn around their season on Sunday? Yeah,
is there a full appreciation for what this I don't

(01:51:03):
think there is doing.

Speaker 3 (01:51:05):
I'm not sure there is. Yeah, how much of that
do you think? I've talked about this before because I
know it to be true. There is a care. The
people in that building care more than they ever have
about the outside perspective. Yeah. How much of that do
you think plays into a decision like that? And are

(01:51:25):
those two worlds beginning to collide when it comes to
football and the external opinion. I think that's a really
good question.

Speaker 16 (01:51:34):
I don't think they traded for Joe Flacco because they
heard the outside noise. I don't think they're that, you know, quick,
trigger happy, whatever it is.

Speaker 3 (01:51:41):
I think.

Speaker 16 (01:51:43):
They watched Jake Browning play and went, Okay, we got
to come up with something else. But I do think
they are more prone to adjusting to the public's temperature
than ever before. And I think you've seen that with
a lot of non football stuff. Right, that's the Ring
of Honor, Yeah, that's some of that stuff. But yeah,

(01:52:08):
they're aware of everything that is said and is written.
I didn't think that was the case twenty five years ago, right,
like I think there was a blissful unawareness to what
was being said and written. Now I think they're very
sensitive to it, and not so sensitive that they'll make
critical decisions based on what is said and what is written,
but they're aware of the temperature.

Speaker 3 (01:52:27):
Of the fan base. What do you have coming up
on your show today? We're going to talk about Tony
Pike like I did too. Yeah, I wish I was
sitting here staring at him. Yeah, me too. No offense, no,
no offense whatsoever. This is weird. I'm not gonna lie
to you. Yeah it is. It is strange.

Speaker 16 (01:52:48):
We're going to talk about Tony at the top of
the show. You know, you did a very good job
of outlining, you know, how you felt. And I would
be irresponsible if I didn't spend time at the top
of our show talking about Tony and what he's meant
to us here, what he's meant to you, what he's
meant to mean and uh and and so we're gonna spend.

Speaker 3 (01:53:06):
Some time on that.

Speaker 16 (01:53:07):
I don't know that we're done talking about Joe Flacco.
We have not yet discussed, at least on my show,
what was outlined for the Reds offseason by Nick Caral
and Brad Metter.

Speaker 3 (01:53:18):
Yeah, I just I just went over that a little bit. Yeah,
and my takeaway was, we'll try again next year. It
kind of felt that way.

Speaker 16 (01:53:28):
I will, I will admit, but I think the hardest
I think the hardest step to take in sports is
the one that goes from okay to really good. I
you know, they've this, this franchise is in a better
place than it was three years ago. I think that's undeniable.

Speaker 3 (01:53:44):
There is a core.

Speaker 16 (01:53:45):
I'm not sure the core is as big as it
should be, and I'm not sure anybody has faith in
them getting this to the next level. But I think
that the lead they have to make now is the
most difficult. How do you go from a team that's
in playoff contention to a team that's in champion and
Chip contention on a regular basis. So we're gonna spend
some time on that amazing sports talk radio topic. What's

(01:54:07):
the Have you ever gotten a speeding ticket?

Speaker 3 (01:54:09):
I haven't gotten one since two thousand and eight, but
from from nineteen ninety five or four nineteen ninety four
to two thousand and eight, I collected a lot of
speeding tickets. Really, Yeah, what was the most you ever
paid for a speeding ticket? Oh, probably like one ninety Okay,
I was gonna say I had like one hundred and
eighty dollars one one time. Yeah, Jerry Jones got fined
two hundred fifty thousand dollars for flipping the bird to

(01:54:32):
Jerry Jones. That's twenty five cents. But is that not
the funniest like ridiculous fine ever? Two hundred and fifty
thousand dollars And then Jerry said I meant to give
him a thumbs up.

Speaker 16 (01:54:45):
That's the that's the part to me. He should get
fined again for that crap a love. Yeah, like wait,
oh wait, you were Okay, you should be fine for
not knowing the difference between your finger and your thumb. Yeah, uh,
I get it. You can't have owners of teams flipping
off the customers. Not a good look. But the fine
does seem to be. Like, what is the most excessive

(01:55:06):
fine anybody has gotten for like injuring a player on.

Speaker 3 (01:55:08):
A football field? It's a good question. Yeah, what's the
most I don't know, it's probably in the fifties.

Speaker 16 (01:55:15):
I would get like you and I'm not talking like
they got suspended in miss game checks like fine that
a player god for putting another player in physical harms way,
and Jerry Jones got fined quarter of a mill for
chucking the bird? Is that the most expensive finger flip?

Speaker 3 (01:55:31):
I remember the fall time the Panthers owner was throwing
ice on people, Jerry no Tepper, Tepper, David Tepper, David Tepper.
So that's right. Didn't he go into a restaurant and
he was mad that they took the hat off of
some guy's head. Yeah, they're trying to establish.

Speaker 16 (01:55:44):
Dominant sandwich board or something that said like David Tepper's
a clown or.

Speaker 3 (01:55:48):
Something, Yeah, something along those. Yeah, did he get fined
for that? I think he did. I know he got
fined for the throwing the ice on somebody thing. Has
Mike Brown ever been fined That's a great question, And
if he has, we probably wouldn't know it. I mean,
the guest Mike Brown doesn't just flip off people. It
would be funny if like that was his thing though,

(01:56:08):
like that was his little inside joke, Like he walks
in every day and just flips Zach the bird and
they know, like that's their their boys, Like they're funny.

Speaker 16 (01:56:18):
Yeah, I mean I I know for a fact, you know,
sitting where he sits in his suite, especially at road
games where they can't control it. They're the fans who
have flipped him off. I've never seen any report of
Mike Brown reciprocated Jerry Jones. Did you watch the Netflix
thing on the if you for me, if like that's
your era of football you grew up in, It was

(01:56:39):
is really good, really well done.

Speaker 3 (01:56:40):
I came away from it appreciating Jerry Jones a little
bit more, a little bit, yeah, but understanding that I
think he felt like the mission was accomplished after they
won the Super Bowls. Yeah, and now he started turning
a profit and he did change from winner trying.

Speaker 16 (01:56:58):
To win to make money. So there were two things
I walked away from. I didn't realize that Barry Switzer
was as beloved by those players as he is. And
I didn't remember the depths of Michael Irvin's off field trump. Yeah,
like I knew he was in, you know, doing the
wrong things, so to speak. I didn't know they were
as called the White House. They called it, well, I

(01:57:21):
knew about that. I didn't know that this cop decided
to put a hit out on him. Yeah, it's on Netflix,
six parts. I think, yeah, maybe awesome, Like you're a
little bit younger than me, but if like you grew
up hating the Cowboys because of their teams in the nineties,
it's really really good.

Speaker 3 (01:57:37):
And also a reminder of how good Skip Bayless was
before he lost his mind on television.

Speaker 19 (01:57:41):
You know.

Speaker 16 (01:57:42):
It's interesting Paul Doherty talks about that because he knew
him as a writer and I knew him when you
would hear him. He was like the go to guy
to go on national radio shows to talk about the
Cowboys and he was excellent. Yeah, and if you ever,
like go to newspapers dot com and read his old columns,
awesome and then decided to go on TV become a
cartoon character. And by the way it worked out for him,

(01:58:02):
you did. But like on that show talking about the
Cowboys covering them, it's terrific. Yeah, it's really one of
the better, more well done sports docs you've ever seen.

Speaker 3 (01:58:12):
Without a doubt, that's Moegger. He's coming up next from
three to six. After that'll be Dan Horden Dave Lapham
for the Bengals Game Plan Show. I am out until
next Tuesday. Green Bay baby, going to Green Bay to
watch Joe Flacco and the Bengals. For you, Chad Brindle,
We'll be here on Thursday, Friday and Monday. You've been

(01:58:35):
listening to Sincy three sixty on the Home of the Bengals,
ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 15 (01:58:45):
Ky Cincinnati, make us the number one pre set on
your car radio and on the free, new and improved iHeartRadio.
AD Free never sounded so good, ESPN fifteen thirty

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