August 15, 2024 • 10 mins
Tony talks with Bob Mangine from NovaCare about pectoral injuries, on ESPN 1530!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
He is back on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome back.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
It's Cincy three to sixty on ESPN fifteen thirty Cinnati
Sports Station. And we move along here in the third
and final hour of the Thursday edition thanks to our
friends at Penn Station, had an awesome conversation there with
James Rapene talking Cincinnati Bengals. Let's further a little bit
of the Cincinnati Bengal conversation with an unfortunate injury that
the Bengals are dealing with now with their first round pick,
Marius Mims.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Let's do so with the man that joins.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Us most Thursdays or Fridays from novacare also that trainer
for men's basketball at the University of Cincinnati. His name
is Bob Mangini's with us now.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Bob, what's up another day in paradise down here Americ
cat Land.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I love it. I love it, Bob.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
There were rave reviews coming out of Cincinnati training camp
for the Bengals around a Marius Mimes and then after
the first preame it was announced that he is going
to miss several weeks due to a strain pectoral muscle.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
And I know that we don't have.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
The the understanding of how severe this may be, or
the imaging or anything like that. But when you hear
a strain pectoral muscle, what challenges are presented with that?
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Well, I mean, again, the pectorial muscle at front muscle
in our chest wall is really really a critical muscle.
And you actually played with some guys in the offensive
line who had some shorter peck type injuries during your career.
Here again, when you're looking at an offensive lineman, depending
on severity, I mean, these things range from you know,
(01:47):
we've had a couple of guys tear it all the
way off to where you had to have surgical repairs.
Verse if you're just missing a couple of weeks, and
there's a good chance it's just a low level strain
or a min level strain. But with an offensive lineman,
just like a defensive lineman, you know you got to
push and pull. You know, your first angle of impact
(02:08):
is often not a good angle for your shores as
an offensive lineman, as the defensive defensive end or the
defensive lineman is trying to get around you. So you've
got to be able to push and pull and for
a peck muscle that's that's a high level or strain.
So you know, again you got to make sure that
you're really, really, really back strong in order to absorb
(02:32):
the forces that these big offense and defensive linements put
on each other. It's a tough position for a pet strain.
I mean, you can get a running back or even
a corner or safety back a little bit easier. You
can't alignment because they're not going to be pulling and
pushing on three hundred pounds people. So it can be
(02:53):
a significant injury and it also has a significant chance
of potentially reoccurring.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
That was going to be my follow up for a
a reoccurring standpoint. I'm thinking of a defensive end at
the size in which they play at the NFL, running
full speed and as a tackle, you're you're punching, you
are you are trying to decelerate that rusher immediately. You're
also dealing with twist games where you've got to grab
onto someone as they're going right or left and you
(03:18):
got to pull them back a certain way. From a
tackle standpoint alone, is this one of the hardest injuries
to have for that position, And as you mentioned, is
there a risk of a re injury if you don't
allow this to heal one.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
When you when you look at a peck injury and
an offensive what man is you just correctly pointed out
if you're if that defensive ends trying to get around
you and they speed rush and you go to reach,
Imagine you've got this long letter arm in your arm
reached out against a two hundred and eighty two and
(03:55):
ninety pounds speed rusher. You hit me very cautious. I mean,
there is that risk of repeat injury. And I don't
care if it's the high school level, the college level,
or the professional level. For an offensive lineman, the peck
is a critical bustle to stabilize the shoulder. So what's
your next concern is not just a repeat injury to
(04:17):
the peck, but the fact the peck is a stabilizer
for your main shoulder joint and if you if you
continue to irritate it, you can end up having something
damaged within your shoulder. Over the course of a season,
whether it's twelve games in high school or whether it's
you know, thirteen games in college or eighteen games in
(04:39):
the NFL, that's a lot of overload. And you know,
the big word we use now is the amount of
workload or overload that some of these kids have to
endure and on an offensive lineman, yeah, I'm really concerned
about a peck.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Injury from a training standpoint, when you go through a
peck injury and you're trying to get it back to
one hundred percent. I know rehab as a big factor here,
but is there a concern that comes along with that
of not being able to do as much upper body
lifting or the normal upper body lifting that you may
do when healthy. And if so, how long do you
(05:13):
normally kind of put aside to get back up to
full strength if you're not able to do the types
of lifts you want to do for a couple.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Of weeks, Well, you're definitely trying to modify your lifts.
You know you're not going to go right back to
the heavy bench or you know you're not going to
go back to heavy pushes from standpoint, even if standing
push off off of a standing rack, you know you've
got to modify. You stay within your pain range. I
always use pain range, you know, when I'm rehabbing a kid,
(05:44):
you know, making sure that what I do doesn't push
to a new level of pain or keep their pain going.
And the other issue becomes, you know, how much weight
to make control because you've got to get it back
to a sufficient amount of way to be able to
resist the force that's going to come out. This is
one of the areas whereas I get into the more
(06:05):
closest to the end phase, you know, I look more
at like piometric type exercise and you remember when we
would do ball tosses or overhead ball slams, those type
of things, because when you're doing a ball toss, it's
more mimicking that bang impact that's your point gets whenever
you're you're hitting somebody. So you know, I'm sure you
(06:27):
know in our program we have those worked into into
the rehab protocol, you know, as most physical therapists and
athletic trainers would, so that when it comes time to
actually re engage defensively to offensively, then you've got that
instantaneous impact load. You can't just do bench press, you
just can't do a push pull on a sled. You've
(06:49):
got to have some sort of impact load.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Bob, let me let me finish with this on this conversation.
A Marius Men's is a young player extreme upside. You
know the body heels a lot faster, He's going to
be eager to get back out there. The coaches are
probably assuming they are better with him out there, other
teammates are anticipating him getting back out there. How important
(07:12):
does the trainer's role become in a situation like this
to be the voice of reason because you do have,
at the end of the day, the athlete's best interest
in mind, and yes, they want to get back out there,
they want to help the team. But as a trainer,
this is where those conversations happen of making sure they're
back to full strength and seeing the much longer and
bigger picture for a career.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Well, Hereston, the main point I'll make is that it
takes a team. So the trainers working closely with the
strength coach, and the strength coach is working intently with
the sports science person, and the trainer is working closely
with the PT so that they're all collaborating. They're all
coming up with various tests that they can do with
(07:57):
the athlete to make sure that he's back to any level.
And again, it doesn't matter if it's a school kid
in a pet clinic. It doesn't matter if it's a
college kid here in our training room. You know, it's
a collaborative effort to make sure that the strength coach
feels like they've regained the strengthening, that the trainer feels
like they've got good joint control. And then you have
(08:20):
so much now in analytics with everything being filmed and
the amount of workload where you can judge their workload
on the field. You know, last week I was down
with the Jaguars with their staff, great staff with Jeff
Ferguson and Dreyevich, and we were sitting there talking with
some of their analytics people and what you can do
(08:41):
today compared to when you played and even went to
the NFL. The analytics are so much different on how
you can actually judge how much, how many plays do
you want them to go to, how many pass plays,
how many impact loads or so many pushloads. So it's
really cool the way that the uh the sports analytics
(09:02):
have evolved. You know, we we monitor our practices with
sports analytics with myself for coach Rachel, so that we
know how much load they spent with the kids. So
you know, yeah, you want to protect the kids. But
in today's world where we could get more numbers on them.
I think it's it's much safer than it was even
(09:22):
just five years ago.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Bob Manjean from the University of Cincinnati and UH novacare Bob.
Thank you so much. As always, I look forward to
uh to talking again next week. Enjoy the rest of
your week, have a great weekend.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Well, Tony, are you going up to Chicago for the games?
Speaker 2 (09:38):
No, no, I am, I don't. I don't make any
road trips.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Bob oh Man, come on Chicago, Tony. I know you
and Austin need to do road trips and do some
some road interviews and do it all by uh you.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Know calling now awesome, Just so you know.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Don't you guys live a shelter life.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
I didn't pay Bob at all to to say that.
That's just Bob what he thinks we should be doing.
Hopefully someone around here may be listening to that.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Yeah, well you guys are the experts.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Thank you, Bob. Thank you as always. We're talking again
next week.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
You're welcome.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
That's that's Bob Manjean. This is since he three p
sixty Thanks to our friends at Penn Station right here
on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station Fall
He is back on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome back.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
It's Cincy three to sixty on ESPN fifteen thirty Cinnati
Sports Station. And we move along here in the third
and final hour of the Thursday edition thanks to our
friends at Penn Station, had an awesome conversation there with
James Rapene talking Cincinnati Bengals. Let's further a little bit
of the Cincinnati Bengal conversation with an unfortunate injury that
the Bengals are dealing with now with their first round pick,
Marius Mims.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Let's do so with the man that joins.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Us most Thursdays or Fridays from novacare also that trainer
for men's basketball at the University of Cincinnati. His name
is Bob Mangini's with us now.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Bob, what's up another day in paradise down here Americ
cat Land.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I love it. I love it, Bob.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
There were rave reviews coming out of Cincinnati training camp
for the Bengals around a Marius Mimes and then after
the first preame it was announced that he is going
to miss several weeks due to a strain pectoral muscle.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
And I know that we don't have.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
The the understanding of how severe this may be, or
the imaging or anything like that. But when you hear
a strain pectoral muscle, what challenges are presented with that?
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Well, I mean, again, the pectorial muscle at front muscle
in our chest wall is really really a critical muscle.
And you actually played with some guys in the offensive
line who had some shorter peck type injuries during your career.
Here again, when you're looking at an offensive lineman, depending
on severity, I mean, these things range from you know,
(01:47):
we've had a couple of guys tear it all the
way off to where you had to have surgical repairs.
Verse if you're just missing a couple of weeks, and
there's a good chance it's just a low level strain
or a min level strain. But with an offensive lineman,
just like a defensive lineman, you know you got to
push and pull. You know, your first angle of impact
(02:08):
is often not a good angle for your shores as
an offensive lineman, as the defensive defensive end or the
defensive lineman is trying to get around you. So you've
got to be able to push and pull and for
a peck muscle that's that's a high level or strain.
So you know, again you got to make sure that
you're really, really, really back strong in order to absorb
(02:32):
the forces that these big offense and defensive linements put
on each other. It's a tough position for a pet strain.
I mean, you can get a running back or even
a corner or safety back a little bit easier. You
can't alignment because they're not going to be pulling and
pushing on three hundred pounds people. So it can be
(02:53):
a significant injury and it also has a significant chance
of potentially reoccurring.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
That was going to be my follow up for a
a reoccurring standpoint. I'm thinking of a defensive end at
the size in which they play at the NFL, running
full speed and as a tackle, you're you're punching, you
are you are trying to decelerate that rusher immediately. You're
also dealing with twist games where you've got to grab
onto someone as they're going right or left and you
(03:18):
got to pull them back a certain way. From a
tackle standpoint alone, is this one of the hardest injuries
to have for that position, And as you mentioned, is
there a risk of a re injury if you don't
allow this to heal one.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
When you when you look at a peck injury and
an offensive what man is you just correctly pointed out
if you're if that defensive ends trying to get around
you and they speed rush and you go to reach,
Imagine you've got this long letter arm in your arm
reached out against a two hundred and eighty two and
(03:55):
ninety pounds speed rusher. You hit me very cautious. I mean,
there is that risk of repeat injury. And I don't
care if it's the high school level, the college level,
or the professional level. For an offensive lineman, the peck
is a critical bustle to stabilize the shoulder. So what's
your next concern is not just a repeat injury to
(04:17):
the peck, but the fact the peck is a stabilizer
for your main shoulder joint and if you if you
continue to irritate it, you can end up having something
damaged within your shoulder. Over the course of a season,
whether it's twelve games in high school or whether it's
you know, thirteen games in college or eighteen games in
(04:39):
the NFL, that's a lot of overload. And you know,
the big word we use now is the amount of
workload or overload that some of these kids have to
endure and on an offensive lineman, yeah, I'm really concerned
about a peck.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Injury from a training standpoint, when you go through a
peck injury and you're trying to get it back to
one hundred percent. I know rehab as a big factor here,
but is there a concern that comes along with that
of not being able to do as much upper body
lifting or the normal upper body lifting that you may
do when healthy. And if so, how long do you
(05:13):
normally kind of put aside to get back up to
full strength if you're not able to do the types
of lifts you want to do for a couple.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Of weeks, Well, you're definitely trying to modify your lifts.
You know you're not going to go right back to
the heavy bench or you know you're not going to
go back to heavy pushes from standpoint, even if standing
push off off of a standing rack, you know you've
got to modify. You stay within your pain range. I
always use pain range, you know, when I'm rehabbing a kid,
(05:44):
you know, making sure that what I do doesn't push
to a new level of pain or keep their pain going.
And the other issue becomes, you know, how much weight
to make control because you've got to get it back
to a sufficient amount of way to be able to
resist the force that's going to come out. This is
one of the areas whereas I get into the more
(06:05):
closest to the end phase, you know, I look more
at like piometric type exercise and you remember when we
would do ball tosses or overhead ball slams, those type
of things, because when you're doing a ball toss, it's
more mimicking that bang impact that's your point gets whenever
you're you're hitting somebody. So you know, I'm sure you
(06:27):
know in our program we have those worked into into
the rehab protocol, you know, as most physical therapists and
athletic trainers would, so that when it comes time to
actually re engage defensively to offensively, then you've got that
instantaneous impact load. You can't just do bench press, you
just can't do a push pull on a sled. You've
(06:49):
got to have some sort of impact load.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Bob, let me let me finish with this on this conversation.
A Marius Men's is a young player extreme upside. You
know the body heels a lot faster, He's going to
be eager to get back out there. The coaches are
probably assuming they are better with him out there, other
teammates are anticipating him getting back out there. How important
(07:12):
does the trainer's role become in a situation like this
to be the voice of reason because you do have,
at the end of the day, the athlete's best interest
in mind, and yes, they want to get back out there,
they want to help the team. But as a trainer,
this is where those conversations happen of making sure they're
back to full strength and seeing the much longer and
bigger picture for a career.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Well, Hereston, the main point I'll make is that it
takes a team. So the trainers working closely with the
strength coach, and the strength coach is working intently with
the sports science person, and the trainer is working closely
with the PT so that they're all collaborating. They're all
coming up with various tests that they can do with
(07:57):
the athlete to make sure that he's back to any level.
And again, it doesn't matter if it's a school kid
in a pet clinic. It doesn't matter if it's a
college kid here in our training room. You know, it's
a collaborative effort to make sure that the strength coach
feels like they've regained the strengthening, that the trainer feels
like they've got good joint control. And then you have
(08:20):
so much now in analytics with everything being filmed and
the amount of workload where you can judge their workload
on the field. You know, last week I was down
with the Jaguars with their staff, great staff with Jeff
Ferguson and Dreyevich, and we were sitting there talking with
some of their analytics people and what you can do
(08:41):
today compared to when you played and even went to
the NFL. The analytics are so much different on how
you can actually judge how much, how many plays do
you want them to go to, how many pass plays,
how many impact loads or so many pushloads. So it's
really cool the way that the uh the sports analytics
(09:02):
have evolved. You know, we we monitor our practices with
sports analytics with myself for coach Rachel, so that we
know how much load they spent with the kids. So
you know, yeah, you want to protect the kids. But
in today's world where we could get more numbers on them.
I think it's it's much safer than it was even
(09:22):
just five years ago.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Bob Manjean from the University of Cincinnati and UH novacare Bob.
Thank you so much. As always, I look forward to
uh to talking again next week. Enjoy the rest of
your week, have a great weekend.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Well, Tony, are you going up to Chicago for the games?
Speaker 2 (09:38):
No, no, I am, I don't. I don't make any
road trips.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Bob oh Man, come on Chicago, Tony. I know you
and Austin need to do road trips and do some
some road interviews and do it all by uh you.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Know calling now awesome, Just so you know.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Don't you guys live a shelter life.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
I didn't pay Bob at all to to say that.
That's just Bob what he thinks we should be doing.
Hopefully someone around here may be listening to that.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Yeah, well you guys are the experts.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Thank you, Bob. Thank you as always. We're talking again
next week.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
You're welcome.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
That's that's Bob Manjean. This is since he three p
sixty Thanks to our friends at Penn Station right here
on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station Fall
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