September 26, 2024 • 16 mins
Tony and Charlie discuss the Bengals defense, the running game, Joe Burrow's leadership and more!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Cinci Shirts since e three to sixty about
Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in part by Cinci Shirts. Cinci
Shirts All Cinci all Day. This is ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
All Right, welcome back our number two starting on what
is a Thursday but feels like a Friday. I'm not
in tomorrow, so our normal Friday lineup has moved up
to today and that means to kick off the second
hour is our guy from Cincinnati dot Com covering the
Cincinnati Bengals, Charlie Goldsmith. Charlie, what's up man?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
How are you doing? Tony?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Charlie?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Good? Not great, because the Bengals are staring zero to
four right in the face right now with a trip
to Carolina looming. Let's start with the defensive side of
the ball. You know it hasn't been good enough. I
know it hasn't been good enough. Everyone knows it hasn't
been good enough. The question I have for you, how
does it get better?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I mean, the only path towards it getting better is
guys coming back from injuries playing at a level that
either we haven't seen from them yet, like Miles Murphy,
or at a level where they've shown in short flashes
of over the course of their careers. It's like gods
like Sheldon Rankins and DJ Hill. But I don't know
that it would be a fair expectation for them to
come in and play, you know, at a borderline Pro
Bowl level, which is what this Bengals defense defense would
(01:19):
need to save itself. And ultimately, I think the only
pass forward for this team is for a Burrow and
Chas and Higgins to keep putting up thirty three points
a game. I don't see the Bengals having the tools
overall to consistently perform like an above average defense because
they're tackling, because they're line to their pass rush. Some
schematic stuff is just not working. It was a like
(01:42):
Week three was one of those games we'll remember when
we look back at the big picture of the Bengals defense. Charlie.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
If if the defense is struggling as it is, and
you have a Jordan Battle and you have a DJ
Turner and others that aren't getting snaps and aren't getting
playing time, is that a way that you could see
them trying to find a combination that works. If what's
out there right now isn't working and you're zero and
(02:10):
three and you don't have the time to be patient
and bring guys along slowly. Do you need to do
something drastically and get other guys more meaningful snaps?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Well in the defensive line, I think we're gonna see
that Jenkins was fine. He'll always struggle against double teams.
But I noticed him a couple times as a run stopper,
maybe not as a pass rush. We'll see more of him,
We'll see more Murphy and Jackson, Cedric Johnson. I mean
it was just two weeks, so they were playing kJ
Henry over him, so I didn't know that he'll be
a big part of the schematic solution for the pass
rush and then going to the back end of the defense,
(02:41):
you know, by putting DJ Turner in at corner. I
don't know that you're getting any younger, you're getting any
more upside. Cam and Dax have been fine. They've allowed
too many big plays, but they've made some plays as well.
The interesting one to me is Jordan Battle and von
Bell Vaughn looked like a guy who was limited in
practice all week with the back end, which he was,
(03:02):
and you specifically noticed that with the way Zach Ertz
created separation pretty quickly by changing directions. Also, Vaughn didn't
quite have the same I don't want to say power,
but kind of a power that he'd usually have, kind
of standing off the ball as a linebacker, which you
usually see him to do against run first team. So
(03:22):
definitely a concerning game from Vaughn. The communication wasn't all
there either, But because of the back injury and because
they've spent the last four months building a defense built
around Vaughn's communication, I think it's probably too soon to
switch that up. Vaughn was a good enough player last year.
I'd give him some more time before you flipped that page.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
It felt more concerning to me because we did see
such an effective game offensively right We saw the offense
move the ball in the air. Joe Burrow looked to
be as good as Joe Burrow can be right now.
The defense ran or the offensive line created holes they protected,
the running game ran up for six point two year
or to carry. The sobering fact is they still lost
(04:02):
the game. But in that loss you do find things
you can hang your hat on. One of them through
three games being not only the Running Game, but Chase
Brown and I know Chase Brown is still not getting
the majority of the carries, but how impressive has he
been for you as a running back. It just looks
like he hit the holes differently than any other running
back that I'm watching.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
It ties into a bigger point too, like for the
first time in years, the NFL has to respect the
Bengals under center offense with what they do with Chase
Brown in particularly, like you mentioned the way he hits
hold of the acceleration. They have a really nice play
action play where Brown kind of scats out and catches
it check down on kind of a designed to play.
It's kind of a screen without the leading blockers, and
(04:44):
Brown's able to make stuff happen with stuff like that
you're seeing. Teams have to respect it, the thread of
the play action more because of what the Bengals have
done in the run game schematically, the visions played out,
you know, they're the most multiple they've ever been. More
under center, more play action, more motion, all the that
we said, you know in April, you know the Bengal's
gonna do this, so they're going to do that. Well,
(05:05):
they're doing it. And it was a terrible day by
Burrow in week one. Week two was a beautiful game plan.
Week three was you know, what should have been a
lights out performance, taking out two or three red zone plays,
which you know is notable to bring up as well.
But on the whole, it's an offense that's doing its part.
And you know, like you said, always, Burrow, Higgins and
Chase have been enough. And the fact that they weren't
(05:27):
enough last week despite them all playing at their usual,
you know, top high end levels. You know, that's what
makes last week lotmost concerning.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, that's where I'm concerned, because the conversation was, well,
the offense is going to be so elite that they'll
just outscore teams, and the offense was elite, they didn't
get the job done. We have seen some of the
red zone issues, and those red zone issues are magnified
when special teams hasn't been elite yet for this team.
But how do the Bengals go about finishing these drives
(05:56):
with touchdowns instead of field goals?
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Yeah? Played great on Monday. You know, he put pretty
well against the Chiefs as well. I put most of
it on Burrow. The fact that he wasn't on the
same page as Zack Moss on that one kind of
rollout check down play where you know Moss wasn't aware
for the ball and Burrow has to already have that
track record in that connection down with Moss so he
knows where to be. Then there's the deep ball in
(06:21):
the back line the Higgins. I still don't know what
happened on that slanty Yoshivash where it looked like Burrow
was forcing a ball into double coverage behind Yoshivasha. There's
some sort of communication issue there. Again, even if Yoshi's
the one who made the mistake, that goes back to
Burrow in the expectation that you guys have to have
this thing firing on all cylinders. And then even dating
back to last week, you know the player in the
(06:42):
red zone where he should have run, but instead he
throws the ball to Trenton Urwin hits his face mask
and he should have caught that pass. But man, that
would have been a lot easier if Burrow just ran
the ball. So Burrow's playing at like a top eight
quarterback level. Obviously, you know you've seen him perform at
a top two quarterback level, and now with all the
concerns the Banks are facing, you need him at a
(07:03):
top two quarterback Levele for still playing great. But that's
part of the feel of the week too. It's not
like they're just blaming the problems on the defense. It's
wait a second, the offense. We's got to get some
stuff cleaned up too.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Let's talk about Joe Burrow a little bit more, because
there's the meeting right after the game where Joe Burrow
and Zach Taylor go into the room together, and if
it's my opinion, I think it's just a message to hey,
we're we need to present the unified front. We need
to be together. I question because I've been on winning
teams and I've been on a really bad NFL team,
and I know that culture and negative culture is a
(07:36):
real thing when you're not winning games. Joe Burrow has
openly talked about leadership, and he talked about it in
length yesterday of he's never really had to be that guy,
but now it feels like he does have to be
that guy. How difficult is that, in your opinion, for
Joe Burrow to essentially change up a lot of who
he is and who he's been for much of his career.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Yeah, Burrow is a guy who's typically has saved up
his cards, his chips from a leadership perspective for very
specific moments, like the most famous ones. Before the Titans
game in the playoffs in twenty twenty one, he gave
the famous I'm tired of being the underdog speech, and
that carried a lot of weight because that's how Burrow
approaches this. This is speculation knowing these guys. I wonder
(08:20):
very strongly if what happened in the secret meeting with
him and Dak was either Dak asked Burrow, can you
address the team? Or Burrow as Dak, can I address
the team? It felt like one of those moments. The
states of where the Bengals stand now felt like the
type of moment where you see being a rare occasion
where Burrow stepped up in that way he typically saved.
(08:42):
And you know, two more guys all mention you know
Captain's on the defense, von Beljermaine Pratt. I think they're
great leaders. Von Bell turned around the Bengals defense. Pratt
is secretly like some of the most important brains of
the operation that's made the Bengals defense what it was
when it was at its best. But in the body
language after plays needed to be better, like Louis and
Rumo once presented a package to the team, presenting the
(09:04):
good body language after bad plays and the pointing and
the shrugging and the what's going on that you saw
is not what I'm used to seeing for two very
strong culture guys and two captains of that defense.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So if that's the point, and again the locker room
is a conversation point at this who, in your opinion,
who are the biggest leaders or the go to leaders
on this team? Because I made this statement earlier in
the week, and again I'm not around this team, but
I thought that Joe Mixon and Tyler Boyd and DJ
Reader were those types of players They're gone. Who are
(09:40):
the leaders in this locker room that when things get
hard like they are right now, can help steady the
ship a little bit?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah? I know that for a fact, like this week
where the Bengals are now, this would be a DJ
Reader week. There were moments like this where Reader was
the guy like, We've got to get this together. This
isn't the standard. The leader was very much that type
of presence that the entire team, offense, special teams listened to.
He had that about him. Now, I don't want to
make this about DJ Reader, and I thought about making
(10:09):
this about DJ Reader and then I turned on his
Lion's tape and he's playing fine, but it's not I
don't think DJ Reader having him instead of Sheldon Rankins
would be what would fix the problem with the Bengals
are at right now. I understand moving on from a
guy at that stage of his career coming off that
significant of an injury, but from a present standpoint, you're
missing him. Who the leaders are in the Bengals team
(10:31):
they voted. They did a good job with the captains
this year. Burrow, carris Key and Key and Chase definitely
have that presence, even though they don't have the captain's title.
Just as you know, the best players on the team,
the guys are always looking to and you know one
and week two we weren't too thrilled with Chase's body
language and all that. And then on defense again, you
look at the captains. You look at you know, Sam Hubbard,
(10:53):
you look at Von Bell and Jermaine Pratt and you
know Sam's grindn't didn't look like a guy who was
running comfortably last week. Jermaine and Vaughan I mentioned. You know,
Logan and Mike Hilton are in that category of guys
who definitely have leadership roles even without a captain title,
but you feel strong about their leadership. But definitely it's
one of those moments where these things get tested. Charlie.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I know the odds are against them because historically what
the numbers say. But at zero to three and what
you've seen from the offense and the defense at this point,
and knowing that they have the fourth easiest schedule remaining,
how do they get back into contention? How do they
get themselves back into the conversation. I know Joe Burrow
talked about not even thinking about it, and he's worried
(11:35):
about practice this week. But bigger picture for you, where
do you have things at?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
I mean, they have nothing to gain this week if
they beat the Panther, it almost would be better if
the Bengals were playing a good team this week. You
can hit that type of wing, you could go forward,
you could move on, put it behind you. Well, obviously
you lose this week, the season's over and if you
win this week, you'll be saying, well, CAROLINEA is terrible.
They beat You know Andy Dialton, who had his moment,
but isn't the type of quarterback they give team a
(12:00):
lot of confidence when the defense goes well against So
for those reasons, kind of to get into foll cliche mode,
stack wins. Try to survive until you get to a
moment you could have that rallying point, whether that would
be one over the Ravens or you know, the Steelers
or you know, maybe some uh, you know. Even the
schedule isn't that tough, so they don't even have that
(12:20):
many chances to get those kind of program wins that
any team needs over the course of the season. So
I mean it's kind of you gotta win, everyone's got
to play better, you gotta wait until you get healthy.
And it's the most cliche stuff, but we're pretty much
back to the basics for a Bengals team with that's
at its lowest points since twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Super Bowl aspirations and again that changes if you just
get to the dance, do you do you have the number?
Do you think it's ten? Do you think it's eleven?
That that gets you in by the time the season's over.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
I want to bring that point up to the whole
Super Bowl aspirations thing like we're talking about the young defense,
and I get it. Got to give the kids time.
You know, their careers are far from over yet on defense,
but you needed them making plays now because now your
Super Bowl expectations are being impacted because the kids weren't
ready to make an impact on defense. Say the exact
(13:08):
same thing last year. The kids, you know, they were
even a year younger. But you know, the chief side,
young guys steping into those roles. When they played the
Chiefs last week, Tamarry Conner, who you know is their
equivalent of maybe a Jordan Battle were one of those
young guys on defense made some of the plays of
that game, and it even cost the Bengals in twenty
twenty two, and they were just one more play away
from beating the Chiefs and maybe even one of those
(13:29):
rookies on special teams could have made a difference on
special teams in that game, in the AFT title game.
So super expectations on one timeline and the Bengals young
core on defense is on a different one. That's where
they're at. You know, at this point, just sneak in
and hope Burrow gets hot. But even if they sneak in,
I'm not talking about this like a super Bowl team.
I'm talking about this like an underdog team if they
(13:50):
did make the playoffs, even though you have Burrow, the
Bengals are just at a different point right now based
on what we've seen and what they've shown.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
How frustrating does that become when you do essentially go
back in for another year of t Higgins And it
felt like they were trying to build up for the
biggest opportunity, whin T Higgins and the rest of this
roster were complete. If things go the opposite direction and
things don't get better, do you look to have to
And I know it's a conversation for another day, but
do you have to look at possibly moving t Higgins
(14:20):
during the season if things don't get better.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I'll tie this into a similar point and then I'll
answer the question like what you're seeing and again like
the season's not over. But the fact that they're even
heire has cost them with this year was supposed to be.
Clearly there was a misunderstanding of the root issues of
some problems. I was told, we all were told that
if they just got smarter safety, the defense would be fined,
and that wasn't true. You know, we were told that
(14:46):
if you bring Higgins back, this is a super Bowl
caliber roster. It looks like right now, I don't know
anyone would say that that's true. You know, we're told that,
you know, with Sam Hubbard coming up, and they were
still high on JOSEPHO say they'd be getting enough product
from the Edgdresser position, And that's just not true. So
the way they've built their roster was making debts and
(15:06):
making decisions that haven't worked and are taken away from
what this core is now. Higgins, I mean, on paper,
would be the thing to do if you're completely out
of it. I'd be worried about the message that would
send a borrow. So you'd have to be way. You
have to be like two and six for me to
even consider it. It's just not what the Bengals do,
you know, even when they need a guy at the deadline,
(15:27):
or even when they were completely out of it in
twenty nineteen, it's not what they do. They'd have to
be really, really far out of it for I think,
I mean, you can consider it, but the fact that
we're having this conversation shows how far off the mark
they were as they evaluated this team. Over the off season.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Charlie, you're the man. Thank you so much for moving
around the schedule getting this in today. Have a great
weekend and we'll talk again next week. Buddy, Hey, Tony,
All right there he is. That's Charlie Goldsmith Cincinnati dot Com.
We are in a hour two just getting things started here.
Your talkbacks when we come back on the Home of
the Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. A service
(16:03):
of our friends at Cincy shirts
This is Cinci Shirts since e three to sixty about
Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in part by Cinci Shirts. Cinci
Shirts All Cinci all Day. This is ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
All Right, welcome back our number two starting on what
is a Thursday but feels like a Friday. I'm not
in tomorrow, so our normal Friday lineup has moved up
to today and that means to kick off the second
hour is our guy from Cincinnati dot Com covering the
Cincinnati Bengals, Charlie Goldsmith. Charlie, what's up man?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
How are you doing? Tony?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Charlie?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Good? Not great, because the Bengals are staring zero to
four right in the face right now with a trip
to Carolina looming. Let's start with the defensive side of
the ball. You know it hasn't been good enough. I
know it hasn't been good enough. Everyone knows it hasn't
been good enough. The question I have for you, how
does it get better?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I mean, the only path towards it getting better is
guys coming back from injuries playing at a level that
either we haven't seen from them yet, like Miles Murphy,
or at a level where they've shown in short flashes
of over the course of their careers. It's like gods
like Sheldon Rankins and DJ Hill. But I don't know
that it would be a fair expectation for them to
come in and play, you know, at a borderline Pro
Bowl level, which is what this Bengals defense defense would
(01:19):
need to save itself. And ultimately, I think the only
pass forward for this team is for a Burrow and
Chas and Higgins to keep putting up thirty three points
a game. I don't see the Bengals having the tools
overall to consistently perform like an above average defense because
they're tackling, because they're line to their pass rush. Some
schematic stuff is just not working. It was a like
(01:42):
Week three was one of those games we'll remember when
we look back at the big picture of the Bengals defense. Charlie.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
If if the defense is struggling as it is, and
you have a Jordan Battle and you have a DJ
Turner and others that aren't getting snaps and aren't getting
playing time, is that a way that you could see
them trying to find a combination that works. If what's
out there right now isn't working and you're zero and
(02:10):
three and you don't have the time to be patient
and bring guys along slowly. Do you need to do
something drastically and get other guys more meaningful snaps?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Well in the defensive line, I think we're gonna see
that Jenkins was fine. He'll always struggle against double teams.
But I noticed him a couple times as a run stopper,
maybe not as a pass rush. We'll see more of him,
We'll see more Murphy and Jackson, Cedric Johnson. I mean
it was just two weeks, so they were playing kJ
Henry over him, so I didn't know that he'll be
a big part of the schematic solution for the pass
rush and then going to the back end of the defense,
(02:41):
you know, by putting DJ Turner in at corner. I
don't know that you're getting any younger, you're getting any
more upside. Cam and Dax have been fine. They've allowed
too many big plays, but they've made some plays as well.
The interesting one to me is Jordan Battle and von
Bell Vaughn looked like a guy who was limited in
practice all week with the back end, which he was,
(03:02):
and you specifically noticed that with the way Zach Ertz
created separation pretty quickly by changing directions. Also, Vaughn didn't
quite have the same I don't want to say power,
but kind of a power that he'd usually have, kind
of standing off the ball as a linebacker, which you
usually see him to do against run first team. So
(03:22):
definitely a concerning game from Vaughn. The communication wasn't all
there either, But because of the back injury and because
they've spent the last four months building a defense built
around Vaughn's communication, I think it's probably too soon to
switch that up. Vaughn was a good enough player last year.
I'd give him some more time before you flipped that page.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
It felt more concerning to me because we did see
such an effective game offensively right We saw the offense
move the ball in the air. Joe Burrow looked to
be as good as Joe Burrow can be right now.
The defense ran or the offensive line created holes they protected,
the running game ran up for six point two year
or to carry. The sobering fact is they still lost
(04:02):
the game. But in that loss you do find things
you can hang your hat on. One of them through
three games being not only the Running Game, but Chase
Brown and I know Chase Brown is still not getting
the majority of the carries, but how impressive has he
been for you as a running back. It just looks
like he hit the holes differently than any other running
back that I'm watching.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
It ties into a bigger point too, like for the
first time in years, the NFL has to respect the
Bengals under center offense with what they do with Chase
Brown in particularly, like you mentioned the way he hits
hold of the acceleration. They have a really nice play
action play where Brown kind of scats out and catches
it check down on kind of a designed to play.
It's kind of a screen without the leading blockers, and
(04:44):
Brown's able to make stuff happen with stuff like that
you're seeing. Teams have to respect it, the thread of
the play action more because of what the Bengals have
done in the run game schematically, the visions played out,
you know, they're the most multiple they've ever been. More
under center, more play action, more motion, all the that
we said, you know in April, you know the Bengal's
gonna do this, so they're going to do that. Well,
(05:05):
they're doing it. And it was a terrible day by
Burrow in week one. Week two was a beautiful game plan.
Week three was you know, what should have been a
lights out performance, taking out two or three red zone plays,
which you know is notable to bring up as well.
But on the whole, it's an offense that's doing its part.
And you know, like you said, always, Burrow, Higgins and
Chase have been enough. And the fact that they weren't
(05:27):
enough last week despite them all playing at their usual,
you know, top high end levels. You know, that's what
makes last week lotmost concerning.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, that's where I'm concerned, because the conversation was, well,
the offense is going to be so elite that they'll
just outscore teams, and the offense was elite, they didn't
get the job done. We have seen some of the
red zone issues, and those red zone issues are magnified
when special teams hasn't been elite yet for this team.
But how do the Bengals go about finishing these drives
(05:56):
with touchdowns instead of field goals?
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Yeah? Played great on Monday. You know, he put pretty
well against the Chiefs as well. I put most of
it on Burrow. The fact that he wasn't on the
same page as Zack Moss on that one kind of
rollout check down play where you know Moss wasn't aware
for the ball and Burrow has to already have that
track record in that connection down with Moss so he
knows where to be. Then there's the deep ball in
(06:21):
the back line the Higgins. I still don't know what
happened on that slanty Yoshivash where it looked like Burrow
was forcing a ball into double coverage behind Yoshivasha. There's
some sort of communication issue there. Again, even if Yoshi's
the one who made the mistake, that goes back to
Burrow in the expectation that you guys have to have
this thing firing on all cylinders. And then even dating
back to last week, you know the player in the
(06:42):
red zone where he should have run, but instead he
throws the ball to Trenton Urwin hits his face mask
and he should have caught that pass. But man, that
would have been a lot easier if Burrow just ran
the ball. So Burrow's playing at like a top eight
quarterback level. Obviously, you know you've seen him perform at
a top two quarterback level, and now with all the
concerns the Banks are facing, you need him at a
(07:03):
top two quarterback Levele for still playing great. But that's
part of the feel of the week too. It's not
like they're just blaming the problems on the defense. It's
wait a second, the offense. We's got to get some
stuff cleaned up too.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Let's talk about Joe Burrow a little bit more, because
there's the meeting right after the game where Joe Burrow
and Zach Taylor go into the room together, and if
it's my opinion, I think it's just a message to hey,
we're we need to present the unified front. We need
to be together. I question because I've been on winning
teams and I've been on a really bad NFL team,
and I know that culture and negative culture is a
(07:36):
real thing when you're not winning games. Joe Burrow has
openly talked about leadership, and he talked about it in
length yesterday of he's never really had to be that guy,
but now it feels like he does have to be
that guy. How difficult is that, in your opinion, for
Joe Burrow to essentially change up a lot of who
he is and who he's been for much of his career.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Yeah, Burrow is a guy who's typically has saved up
his cards, his chips from a leadership perspective for very
specific moments, like the most famous ones. Before the Titans
game in the playoffs in twenty twenty one, he gave
the famous I'm tired of being the underdog speech, and
that carried a lot of weight because that's how Burrow
approaches this. This is speculation knowing these guys. I wonder
(08:20):
very strongly if what happened in the secret meeting with
him and Dak was either Dak asked Burrow, can you
address the team? Or Burrow as Dak, can I address
the team? It felt like one of those moments. The
states of where the Bengals stand now felt like the
type of moment where you see being a rare occasion
where Burrow stepped up in that way he typically saved.
(08:42):
And you know, two more guys all mention you know
Captain's on the defense, von Beljermaine Pratt. I think they're
great leaders. Von Bell turned around the Bengals defense. Pratt
is secretly like some of the most important brains of
the operation that's made the Bengals defense what it was
when it was at its best. But in the body
language after plays needed to be better, like Louis and
Rumo once presented a package to the team, presenting the
(09:04):
good body language after bad plays and the pointing and
the shrugging and the what's going on that you saw
is not what I'm used to seeing for two very
strong culture guys and two captains of that defense.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So if that's the point, and again the locker room
is a conversation point at this who, in your opinion,
who are the biggest leaders or the go to leaders
on this team? Because I made this statement earlier in
the week, and again I'm not around this team, but
I thought that Joe Mixon and Tyler Boyd and DJ
Reader were those types of players They're gone. Who are
(09:40):
the leaders in this locker room that when things get
hard like they are right now, can help steady the
ship a little bit?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah? I know that for a fact, like this week
where the Bengals are now, this would be a DJ
Reader week. There were moments like this where Reader was
the guy like, We've got to get this together. This
isn't the standard. The leader was very much that type
of presence that the entire team, offense, special teams listened to.
He had that about him. Now, I don't want to
make this about DJ Reader, and I thought about making
(10:09):
this about DJ Reader and then I turned on his
Lion's tape and he's playing fine, but it's not I
don't think DJ Reader having him instead of Sheldon Rankins
would be what would fix the problem with the Bengals
are at right now. I understand moving on from a
guy at that stage of his career coming off that
significant of an injury, but from a present standpoint, you're
missing him. Who the leaders are in the Bengals team
(10:31):
they voted. They did a good job with the captains
this year. Burrow, carris Key and Key and Chase definitely
have that presence, even though they don't have the captain's title.
Just as you know, the best players on the team,
the guys are always looking to and you know one
and week two we weren't too thrilled with Chase's body
language and all that. And then on defense again, you
look at the captains. You look at you know, Sam Hubbard,
(10:53):
you look at Von Bell and Jermaine Pratt and you
know Sam's grindn't didn't look like a guy who was
running comfortably last week. Jermaine and Vaughan I mentioned. You know,
Logan and Mike Hilton are in that category of guys
who definitely have leadership roles even without a captain title,
but you feel strong about their leadership. But definitely it's
one of those moments where these things get tested. Charlie.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I know the odds are against them because historically what
the numbers say. But at zero to three and what
you've seen from the offense and the defense at this point,
and knowing that they have the fourth easiest schedule remaining,
how do they get back into contention? How do they
get themselves back into the conversation. I know Joe Burrow
talked about not even thinking about it, and he's worried
(11:35):
about practice this week. But bigger picture for you, where
do you have things at?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
I mean, they have nothing to gain this week if
they beat the Panther, it almost would be better if
the Bengals were playing a good team this week. You
can hit that type of wing, you could go forward,
you could move on, put it behind you. Well, obviously
you lose this week, the season's over and if you
win this week, you'll be saying, well, CAROLINEA is terrible.
They beat You know Andy Dialton, who had his moment,
but isn't the type of quarterback they give team a
(12:00):
lot of confidence when the defense goes well against So
for those reasons, kind of to get into foll cliche mode,
stack wins. Try to survive until you get to a
moment you could have that rallying point, whether that would
be one over the Ravens or you know, the Steelers
or you know, maybe some uh, you know. Even the
schedule isn't that tough, so they don't even have that
(12:20):
many chances to get those kind of program wins that
any team needs over the course of the season. So
I mean it's kind of you gotta win, everyone's got
to play better, you gotta wait until you get healthy.
And it's the most cliche stuff, but we're pretty much
back to the basics for a Bengals team with that's
at its lowest points since twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Super Bowl aspirations and again that changes if you just
get to the dance, do you do you have the number?
Do you think it's ten? Do you think it's eleven?
That that gets you in by the time the season's over.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
I want to bring that point up to the whole
Super Bowl aspirations thing like we're talking about the young defense,
and I get it. Got to give the kids time.
You know, their careers are far from over yet on defense,
but you needed them making plays now because now your
Super Bowl expectations are being impacted because the kids weren't
ready to make an impact on defense. Say the exact
(13:08):
same thing last year. The kids, you know, they were
even a year younger. But you know, the chief side,
young guys steping into those roles. When they played the
Chiefs last week, Tamarry Conner, who you know is their
equivalent of maybe a Jordan Battle were one of those
young guys on defense made some of the plays of
that game, and it even cost the Bengals in twenty
twenty two, and they were just one more play away
from beating the Chiefs and maybe even one of those
(13:29):
rookies on special teams could have made a difference on
special teams in that game, in the AFT title game.
So super expectations on one timeline and the Bengals young
core on defense is on a different one. That's where
they're at. You know, at this point, just sneak in
and hope Burrow gets hot. But even if they sneak in,
I'm not talking about this like a super Bowl team.
I'm talking about this like an underdog team if they
(13:50):
did make the playoffs, even though you have Burrow, the
Bengals are just at a different point right now based
on what we've seen and what they've shown.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
How frustrating does that become when you do essentially go
back in for another year of t Higgins And it
felt like they were trying to build up for the
biggest opportunity, whin T Higgins and the rest of this
roster were complete. If things go the opposite direction and
things don't get better, do you look to have to
And I know it's a conversation for another day, but
do you have to look at possibly moving t Higgins
(14:20):
during the season if things don't get better.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I'll tie this into a similar point and then I'll
answer the question like what you're seeing and again like
the season's not over. But the fact that they're even
heire has cost them with this year was supposed to be.
Clearly there was a misunderstanding of the root issues of
some problems. I was told, we all were told that
if they just got smarter safety, the defense would be fined,
and that wasn't true. You know, we were told that
(14:46):
if you bring Higgins back, this is a super Bowl
caliber roster. It looks like right now, I don't know
anyone would say that that's true. You know, we're told that,
you know, with Sam Hubbard coming up, and they were
still high on JOSEPHO say they'd be getting enough product
from the Edgdresser position, And that's just not true. So
the way they've built their roster was making debts and
(15:06):
making decisions that haven't worked and are taken away from
what this core is now. Higgins, I mean, on paper,
would be the thing to do if you're completely out
of it. I'd be worried about the message that would
send a borrow. So you'd have to be way. You
have to be like two and six for me to
even consider it. It's just not what the Bengals do,
you know, even when they need a guy at the deadline,
(15:27):
or even when they were completely out of it in
twenty nineteen, it's not what they do. They'd have to
be really, really far out of it for I think,
I mean, you can consider it, but the fact that
we're having this conversation shows how far off the mark
they were as they evaluated this team. Over the off season.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Charlie, you're the man. Thank you so much for moving
around the schedule getting this in today. Have a great
weekend and we'll talk again next week. Buddy, Hey, Tony,
All right there he is. That's Charlie Goldsmith Cincinnati dot Com.
We are in a hour two just getting things started here.
Your talkbacks when we come back on the Home of
the Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. A service
(16:03):
of our friends at Cincy shirts
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