October 29, 2024 • 21 mins
Austin talks Bengals with Joe Danneman from FOX 19, on ESPN 1530!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Sincey three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in part
by Cincy Shirts. Cincy Shirts, All Cincy, all Day. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hi, Hello, welcome in our number two of since e
three to sixty. Here on ESPN fifteen thirty. Austin Elmar
with you today, with you until three o'clock. Tony back
tomorrow and talking now to our friend Joe Daniman, who
joins us every single Tuesday. Hi, Joe, how are you?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I gotta tell you. Austin a name part time pipe
almost made me run off the road when I was
driving earlier on.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
It's been one of our favorite developments that our our
listeners have come up with, because the guys just never here.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Hey, Tony is listening our best to him. Boy, his
voice was was going on pretty quick Sunday more when
I was driving into work to go to the game,
and I figured he wouldn't be there on Monday, but
God loved him. He was there a shot. Ye tried
to play through it.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I commend him for that, Yes I do too. I
give him a pass on today, but you know, just
in the in the spirit of the show, got to
rough him up a little bit, how do you explain
the Bengals?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Okay, obviously it's nuanced, and I think I think the
conversation right now Austin is everybody trying to assign blame,
right for a three and five start, and especially for
Sunday performance where I think at one point after the
Bengals were up ten to three, they were outscored the
rest of the game thirty four to seven. It looked
like a team of the fourth quarter who let go
(01:44):
of the rope and let Philadelphia do whatever they want.
And I think everybody right now at three and five
kind of has a feeling that we've seen enough of
this football team to have some measured thoughts on what
they are and what they projected being for the rest
of the season. And I think with the disappointment of
three and five, people are trying to assign blame, and certainly,
(02:07):
as you put it, the low hanging fruit is to
always blame the head coach, and Zach is not without blame,
but also is the front office they're there to blame
with with the with the drafts, with with the talent
they acquired in the offseason, people they handpicked to come
back to Cincinnati and play with this team. And then
I also think, also, uh, you know, if we're gonna
(02:29):
blame the coaches, if we're gonna blame the front office,
I think there needs to be a finger pointed at
some player performances on Sunday as well. I mean, Trey
Hendrickson has been one of the best players in the NFL,
and he was ghosted on Sunday by Fred Johnson and
hack tip to Fred Johnson. But a great football game,
but uh, you know, Trey Hendrickson doesn't usually go an
(02:50):
entire game with his his entire defense only getting three
pressures the entire game. On Jalen Hurts, I challenge people
to go back and look at one play in particular,
and it's the long pass to Devonte Smith's and look
at the effort of Sheldon Rankins on that play. Now,
Sheldon's being double teamed out of the play. But if
(03:11):
you're a professional football player and the standard is effort,
the standard is that you play as a pro. That
effort on that play wasn't good enough. And he's one
of the guys they hadn't picked in the offseason to
come in and be a difference maker on the defensive line.
And this isn't the single alt Sheldon rankins, but I
think this goes back to the big issue with the
(03:32):
team is their ability now in this era of paying
Joe Burrow and going to have to pay a Jamar Chase,
of making smart decisions in free agency, and this offseason
felt like a complete whiff from the front office, the
way they dealt with Jamar, the way things went with Tea,
and then the people they targeted and signed to help
(03:53):
this defense so not any better than they were last year.
And then they saw last year. Even Joe said it
in his last press conments of the year. He's like,
even if I was healthy, this was not that team.
We were not going to be a super Bowl contending team.
And so they had an off season to try to
fix it, and knowing Joe was coming back and going
to be ready, and he's done his part this year.
Just whether it's coaching, whether it's front office, whether it's players,
(04:17):
everybody is a signed blame. But I still think the big,
big black stain on this season was an offseason that
was a mess.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, And that's the thing that I'm struggling with because
I do feel like they've tried, and I do feel like,
you know, a couple of years ago, when you go
to the Super Bowl in the AFC Championship Game in
back to back years, that's in no small part due
to the things that they did in the offseason that
were successful. Is that still going to be their mentality
(04:48):
moving forward if they have to shell out a lot
of money to Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, I think it's important in conversations like this to
be measured and to be clear headed and understand that. Yeah,
if you're going to throw arrows and throw rocks and
criticize said that, also, there are times in the front
office should be praised for the way they did attack
that offseason, for the way they saw this roster coming
together with Joe Burrow and understanding what he was by
(05:17):
drafting Jamar Chase, and anybody can anybody can draft Joe
Burrow and Jamar Chase, right, I mean the Bengals fell
into that number one overall pick, greatest college football season
of all time, and then the next year to have
a top five pick and to have Jamar Chase fall
on your left. Anybody can get them. But they did
get them, and then they saw the window, right, They
saw the window of the Joe Burrow rookie contract and
(05:38):
the amount of money they could spend in free agency.
So hack Kip to the Bengals. They went for it.
They got to Mike Silton's, they got the Cheetos, they
got the DJ Readers and the Von Bells and the
Trey Hendricksons, and they loaded up this defense and that
was a major reason why the Bengals went to a
Super Bowl and then went to an AFC Championship the
next year. Now the question is this, The question is
(06:01):
are they equipped in their front office now when they're
playing with one hand tied behind their back financially because
of the massive contracts they have to pay for a
quarterback and a wide receiver. Are they equipped to target
the right players in the draft, target the right players
in free agency, still the holes with the right players.
(06:23):
So far, They've had one off season of trying to
do that in this new world of paying Joe what
they have to pay, and it wasn't good enough. It
was a whiff. And so yeah, I think they do
deserve credit for what they've built during the window where
they had Joe under a rookie contract, It's still to
be determined if they can do it in this new
(06:45):
world where they have to pay their top two stars
at market value and eat up so much of their taps.
So I'm skeptical. I think anybody should be skeptical that
they can do it because they've had one swing at
it and they missed. But they get another swing that's
coming offseason. Think that's what this team needs. Look, I
think if you sat here right now, Austin, it's almost November,
(07:05):
the Bengals are three and five. If you had one
hundred dollars, would you bet it on the Bengals going
to the playoffs or finishing with a losing record. I
quite honestly think like at this point right now, they're
more likely to finish with a losing record than they
are to go to the playoffs the way they looked
on Sunday against Philadelphia, considering some of the teams they
still have to play. So this team needs an off season.
(07:28):
It's going to come, whether to make the playoffs or not.
And I don't think this season is salvageable until they
make the fixes they have to make, and that would
come in the off season.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
If they do look around and realize that they are
not equipped to enter the offseason and build around Joe
and Jamar with the amount of money that they are
going to pay them. Do you think there will be
a commitment to find out or a commitment to figure
(08:02):
out how to get equipped to do that.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Yeah. And I think part of the problem too is
Bengals fans And I know Bengals's fans are sitting here
and here we are in year five of Joe Burrow
and it feels like there's a fear amongst the fan
base that they're going to waste this elite talent that
comes along once in the generation when you have this
(08:27):
combination of Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase And I think
I think the fear is that they're the front office
is not going to equip these guys with what they need.
Uh to your question, I think there's a lot of
a lot of players on this team. At some point
this season they need to take a long look at
and see what they've got. For example, let's start with
(08:48):
your main burden, right because let's all let's all be honest,
let's tear the band aid off and talk about this
for real. T Higgins won't be a bangaled next year
unless there's a major upset, And so this team has
to find out what they have to do at wide receiver.
Is Jermaine Burton the answer? Do they have to use
a first round pick next year? Do they have to
(09:09):
make a splash and free agency? They've got what nine
games left here the rest of this season to see
what Jermaine is. And I'm not part of the hive
on Twitter that right now thinks that Jermaine Burton is
being blackballed and not giving every opportunity he deserves. He
will earn his opportunities. That's aught he played in the
snaps he played Sunday against Philadelphia. I thought there was
(09:30):
a lot of good I really do, And I think
Zach echoed that on Monday in his press conference when
he said that he's probably going to see more snaps
going forward. So this is part of that process of
now investing in the guys you drafted, especially at that position.
So to answer your question, I still think, obviously the
defense is going to be the big talking point for
(09:50):
this team and talent acquisition going forward. But we've seen
this team now without T Higgins in three games this year,
and it doesn't look good. So if this team is
going to figure out what they are without Tea going forward,
they need to figure out if Jermaine Burton is that
answer or if they have to go into this offseason
targeting a high round draft pick. When I say high round,
(10:13):
I say first or second round wide receiver or making
a splash and free agency. And I think that has
now become a major priority for this team going forward.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Bengals ownership and the player personnel department are often described
as cheap, as stubborn, and as stuck in their ways.
When you look at the examples in the past of
an Andrew Whitworth or a Jesse Bates or a DJ
Reader and maybe even in the future of a T.
(10:44):
Higgins and how they have allowed those players to walk
and they've continued to play at an elite level moving forward.
Can those sorts of situations actually change the perspective and
the philosophy of those in the front office US when
it comes to team building.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
That's a great question, and you you would hope, you
would hope that the number of examples of players they've
let walk and has come back to bite them and
they have to watch them from afar play well with
wakes them up. And I know the Andrew Whitworth clip
was making its way around Twitter last night as I
was scrolling during timeouts of the Monday night football game,
(11:26):
and certainly what Jesse Bates. It always seems like Jesse
Bates plays his best games on the same day when
the Bengals defense plays its worst. Uh yeah, I would
think that should be a wake up call. And it's
interesting too because the philosophy, at least under Marvin, and
we know Marvin had unique say within the organization that
maybe even Zach doesn't have right now. In his time
(11:49):
in Cincinnati, Marvin was all about drafting, developing, rewarding. That
that was their that was their philosophy, that was their blueprint,
that's how they did things that I don't know if
that has changed in recent years with what happened with
you know, obviously Andrew had had time under Marvin, but
but Jesse Bays happening under Zach and some of those
(12:12):
players who have walked and gone on to do great things.
But that's what this is supposed to be. And I
think two and to your point, you and I were
talking on Sunday about the development of players and these
young players they invest high draft picks in. And I've
done this on the show before, I won't I won't
do it again. But if you go back to the
twenty twenty three and twenty twenty two drafts, the Bengals
(12:33):
knew this was coming, right, They knew that Joe Burrow
price tag was coming. They knew that Jamar Chase price
tag was coming. That they had to invest draft picks
over and over and over again on defense, and they
used each of their first three round draft picks each
year on defensive players. And you can look at them.
I don't have to go through the names. For the
(12:54):
most part, their misses and the one hit Cam Taylor
Britt has regressed this season. So the other question is,
it's not just it's not just the front office, it's
not just the scheme from the coaches. It's not just
the performance. It's also the development right of these players,
these these young guys. They've invested draft picks in that
they can let these veteran guys walk because they're going
(13:16):
to draft their replacements and these guys are gonna come in.
And it isn't it striking when Andrew Whitwork talks about
it that they drafted Cedric obwayhe and Jake Fisher and
told him that they were going to be his replacement.
Does that not give you a peak right now? Just
a little bit into their their ability to scout talent
and get that right, And that to me would be
(13:37):
the biggest fear of the fan base. Like I said,
anybody can draft Joe, anybody can draft Jamar. When you
have those top five picks, you gotta win drafts in
those second and third round picks. Look at the Kansas
City Chiefs undefeated seven to zero. Their offense is mediocre,
they're okay right now, but ken of their eleven starters
(13:57):
on defense are people they drafted and people they developed.
They saw it coming same thing as the Bengals with
Patrick Mahomes, but they've done a much better job of
targeting guys that they can draft and develop and they
developed them into a championship defense.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah. I mean, I'm just sitting I'm here. I'm sitting
here with so many different thoughts about like the direction
that this can go. I know, Lance McAllister said he
wrote something on WLW this morning that the Bengals are
closer to a rebuild than they are a Super Bowl
That's a sobering reality for a team that came into
(14:37):
this season with the expectation that they can win a
Super Bowl, And I just don't know. It's tough when
it feels like everybody can see it. You can see it,
I can see it, the fans can see it, and
yet there does not seem to be that commitment or
that understanding, or quite frankly, an attitude that they care
(15:00):
from the people inside the organization, primarily in the front office.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Well, the hard thing is, Austin we saw this in
the offseason when they were signing Von Bell and there
was all the vibes in Cincinnati right von Bell's back.
You know, the big hit on jujus Mith Schuster, the
play in the eighty championship that that was Von Bell
three or four years ago. And you know, when you
get to the age he's at right now, you know,
the athleticism, the speed that that stuff drop saw, Oh,
(15:26):
Gino Stones are going to bring him in. Veteran guys
played a lot of football, and we've talked about this
on this show. The idea that oh, they're going to
get lined up better, the Bengals are going to be
much better in the thirty seconds leading up to the
play when they get everybody aligned. But it's what are
you doing in the four to six seconds when the
ball had snapped and there's a play to be made
on the field. You saw it Sunday the Eagles, the
(15:48):
deep ball, the one deep shot the Bengals took. You
had a tip pass and a safety who was able
to close ground and be there for a tip pass
and make a great play. Now you can say it's
a lucky play, but the fact that he was fast enough,
athletic enough, had the instincts to get there put himself
in that position. On the flip side. Von Bell wasn't
good enough. They take him out of the game. They
put Jordan Battle in and Devonte Smith makes them look
(16:11):
like a novice trying to track a deep ball for
one of the biggest plays of the game. We saw
this in the offseason when they made the acquisition they
made Von Bell and Geno Stone to be your starting safeties.
Was not going to be good enough in twenty twenty
four NFL football, I I'll admit I thought Sheldon Rankins
was a nice pick I thought this team a nice pickup.
(16:33):
I thought he needed somebody in the interior defensive line
to be a difference maker, or the pass rush. Maybe
he could be the compliment to go with Trey Henderson
hasn't worked out, hasn't fit for whatever reason. But when
those are your big signings, those are the people you're
relying on. To me, it wasn't good enough, and I
understand their hamstrung by what they can pay now to
(16:55):
your point about it might feel like there's this feeling
that the front office doesn't want to win. They went
all in. You got to give them credit. They went
all in in twenty twenty one and it paid off.
They went to a super Bowl the next year, they
went to the AFC Championship. So they understood what they
had and Joe and Jamar and what they could do
with them if they've built around them. So you have
(17:16):
to give them credit. If you're going to criticize them now,
I will never believe. I will never believe Mike Brown
and the front office doesn't want to win a championship.
From the conversation I had with him every year before
training camp starts, the man is passionate about winning a championship.
There's no doubt in my mind. I just wonder if
(17:38):
they're equipped enough from a talent evaluation point to find
the right people to fit at the right price tag
for the right positions at the right time. I just
wonder if they're able to do that now. Lastly, to
Lance's point about rebuilding, when you're rebuilding with Joe Burrow
and Jamar Chase, you're in a great spot. Yeah, you're
(18:00):
only a few players away. We understand that, and that's
why the word rebuilt might be just a little bit
too strong. Retooling, right, that has to happen. That have
to be the emphasis this offseason. They've got to get
better on defense. They have to be better about drafting
guys that will hit, and they have to be better
(18:21):
about finding guys in free agency that will be impact players.
There is not a single impact player on this defense
outside of Trey Henderson. That's the truth at this point.
There's no game changer, there's no playmaker, there's no impact player.
They've got one, and someday he was taken out of
the game for whatever reason, didn't play well, and you
saw what happened.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah, And I think rebuilds in the NFL happened very
very quickly, just the way you know it works and
to have those two, as you mentioned, is obviously a
big deal. And yeah, to clarify, I mean, there's no
doubt in my mind that that Mike and Katie and
Troy they want to win desperately. But do you want
to win to the point where you're willing to change
(19:01):
your philosophy? And the answer to that question to me
was yes a couple of years ago because of what
you just talked about, the way that they went all in.
But in order to be an elite franchise in the
National Football League, you have to be willing to do
things you're uncomfortable with. You have to be willing to evolve,
and you can't keep trying to force a square peg
into a round hole. It just doesn't work. You can
(19:23):
see that across the NFL where teams have shifted, and
I think that's one of the big question marks with
the Bengals. Joe, thank you so much for your time.
You're always way too gracious with it. Thank you for
stopping by. What can Bengals fans look forward to with
your coverage this week on Fox nineteen.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Big Week Wednesday night, six o'clock, We'll be taping Bengals
Now at Newport on the levee, So we're doing that
six o'clock this coming Wednesday night is going to come
down there, have a chance to meet some of the players.
And then Sunday the game is on our air, so
we will be going o nine to ten am live
pregame show at the stadium. Then the Bengals have their
(20:04):
one hour block of programming they produce on our air
ten to eleven. Then we go straight into the Fox
pregame show and then Bengals had one. So you're looking
at Bengals in NFL coverage from nine am to four
pm on Sunday on Fox nineteen.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Have you ever met Terry Bradshaw?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
I have not. No, I have not.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
What about Kurt Menefee?
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Have not? They don't leave the studio, at least when
they do leave the studio, it's you know, they go
somewhere outside in.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
La I bet Kurt Menefee would be a good guy
to have a couple of beers with.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
He does seem like that. He can think on his toes. Man,
he's an impressive job.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
All right, Joe, thank you so much. Man. We'll talk
to you next week.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
See Austin.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
That is Joe Daneman The Dean Fox nineteen. A lot
of good stuff in there, man, it's just a tough
spot for Bengals fans to be in. Talkbacks are next
ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Now your chance to win a thousand dollars. Enter this
nationwide keyword on our website, deposit. That's deposit. Enter it now.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Hey, it's my legger.
Sincey three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in part
by Cincy Shirts. Cincy Shirts, All Cincy, all Day. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hi, Hello, welcome in our number two of since e
three to sixty. Here on ESPN fifteen thirty. Austin Elmar
with you today, with you until three o'clock. Tony back
tomorrow and talking now to our friend Joe Daniman, who
joins us every single Tuesday. Hi, Joe, how are you?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I gotta tell you. Austin a name part time pipe
almost made me run off the road when I was
driving earlier on.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
It's been one of our favorite developments that our our
listeners have come up with, because the guys just never here.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Hey, Tony is listening our best to him. Boy, his
voice was was going on pretty quick Sunday more when
I was driving into work to go to the game,
and I figured he wouldn't be there on Monday, but
God loved him. He was there a shot. Ye tried
to play through it.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I commend him for that, Yes I do too. I
give him a pass on today, but you know, just
in the in the spirit of the show, got to
rough him up a little bit, how do you explain
the Bengals?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Okay, obviously it's nuanced, and I think I think the
conversation right now Austin is everybody trying to assign blame,
right for a three and five start, and especially for
Sunday performance where I think at one point after the
Bengals were up ten to three, they were outscored the
rest of the game thirty four to seven. It looked
like a team of the fourth quarter who let go
(01:44):
of the rope and let Philadelphia do whatever they want.
And I think everybody right now at three and five
kind of has a feeling that we've seen enough of
this football team to have some measured thoughts on what
they are and what they projected being for the rest
of the season. And I think with the disappointment of
three and five, people are trying to assign blame, and certainly,
(02:07):
as you put it, the low hanging fruit is to
always blame the head coach, and Zach is not without blame,
but also is the front office they're there to blame
with with the with the drafts, with with the talent
they acquired in the offseason, people they handpicked to come
back to Cincinnati and play with this team. And then
I also think, also, uh, you know, if we're gonna
(02:29):
blame the coaches, if we're gonna blame the front office,
I think there needs to be a finger pointed at
some player performances on Sunday as well. I mean, Trey
Hendrickson has been one of the best players in the NFL,
and he was ghosted on Sunday by Fred Johnson and
hack tip to Fred Johnson. But a great football game,
but uh, you know, Trey Hendrickson doesn't usually go an
(02:50):
entire game with his his entire defense only getting three
pressures the entire game. On Jalen Hurts, I challenge people
to go back and look at one play in particular,
and it's the long pass to Devonte Smith's and look
at the effort of Sheldon Rankins on that play. Now,
Sheldon's being double teamed out of the play. But if
(03:11):
you're a professional football player and the standard is effort,
the standard is that you play as a pro. That
effort on that play wasn't good enough. And he's one
of the guys they hadn't picked in the offseason to
come in and be a difference maker on the defensive line.
And this isn't the single alt Sheldon rankins, but I
think this goes back to the big issue with the
(03:32):
team is their ability now in this era of paying
Joe Burrow and going to have to pay a Jamar Chase,
of making smart decisions in free agency, and this offseason
felt like a complete whiff from the front office, the
way they dealt with Jamar, the way things went with Tea,
and then the people they targeted and signed to help
(03:53):
this defense so not any better than they were last year.
And then they saw last year. Even Joe said it
in his last press conments of the year. He's like,
even if I was healthy, this was not that team.
We were not going to be a super Bowl contending team.
And so they had an off season to try to
fix it, and knowing Joe was coming back and going
to be ready, and he's done his part this year.
Just whether it's coaching, whether it's front office, whether it's players,
(04:17):
everybody is a signed blame. But I still think the big,
big black stain on this season was an offseason that
was a mess.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, And that's the thing that I'm struggling with because
I do feel like they've tried, and I do feel like,
you know, a couple of years ago, when you go
to the Super Bowl in the AFC Championship Game in
back to back years, that's in no small part due
to the things that they did in the offseason that
were successful. Is that still going to be their mentality
(04:48):
moving forward if they have to shell out a lot
of money to Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, I think it's important in conversations like this to
be measured and to be clear headed and understand that. Yeah,
if you're going to throw arrows and throw rocks and
criticize said that, also, there are times in the front
office should be praised for the way they did attack
that offseason, for the way they saw this roster coming
together with Joe Burrow and understanding what he was by
(05:17):
drafting Jamar Chase, and anybody can anybody can draft Joe
Burrow and Jamar Chase, right, I mean the Bengals fell
into that number one overall pick, greatest college football season
of all time, and then the next year to have
a top five pick and to have Jamar Chase fall
on your left. Anybody can get them. But they did
get them, and then they saw the window, right, They
saw the window of the Joe Burrow rookie contract and
(05:38):
the amount of money they could spend in free agency.
So hack Kip to the Bengals. They went for it.
They got to Mike Silton's, they got the Cheetos, they
got the DJ Readers and the Von Bells and the
Trey Hendricksons, and they loaded up this defense and that
was a major reason why the Bengals went to a
Super Bowl and then went to an AFC Championship the
next year. Now the question is this, The question is
(06:01):
are they equipped in their front office now when they're
playing with one hand tied behind their back financially because
of the massive contracts they have to pay for a
quarterback and a wide receiver. Are they equipped to target
the right players in the draft, target the right players
in free agency, still the holes with the right players.
(06:23):
So far, They've had one off season of trying to
do that in this new world of paying Joe what
they have to pay, and it wasn't good enough. It
was a whiff. And so yeah, I think they do
deserve credit for what they've built during the window where
they had Joe under a rookie contract, It's still to
be determined if they can do it in this new
(06:45):
world where they have to pay their top two stars
at market value and eat up so much of their taps.
So I'm skeptical. I think anybody should be skeptical that
they can do it because they've had one swing at
it and they missed. But they get another swing that's
coming offseason. Think that's what this team needs. Look, I
think if you sat here right now, Austin, it's almost November,
(07:05):
the Bengals are three and five. If you had one
hundred dollars, would you bet it on the Bengals going
to the playoffs or finishing with a losing record. I
quite honestly think like at this point right now, they're
more likely to finish with a losing record than they
are to go to the playoffs the way they looked
on Sunday against Philadelphia, considering some of the teams they
still have to play. So this team needs an off season.
(07:28):
It's going to come, whether to make the playoffs or not.
And I don't think this season is salvageable until they
make the fixes they have to make, and that would
come in the off season.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
If they do look around and realize that they are
not equipped to enter the offseason and build around Joe
and Jamar with the amount of money that they are
going to pay them. Do you think there will be
a commitment to find out or a commitment to figure
(08:02):
out how to get equipped to do that.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Yeah. And I think part of the problem too is
Bengals fans And I know Bengals's fans are sitting here
and here we are in year five of Joe Burrow
and it feels like there's a fear amongst the fan
base that they're going to waste this elite talent that
comes along once in the generation when you have this
(08:27):
combination of Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase And I think
I think the fear is that they're the front office
is not going to equip these guys with what they need.
Uh to your question, I think there's a lot of
a lot of players on this team. At some point
this season they need to take a long look at
and see what they've got. For example, let's start with
(08:48):
your main burden, right because let's all let's all be honest,
let's tear the band aid off and talk about this
for real. T Higgins won't be a bangaled next year
unless there's a major upset, And so this team has
to find out what they have to do at wide receiver.
Is Jermaine Burton the answer? Do they have to use
a first round pick next year? Do they have to
(09:09):
make a splash and free agency? They've got what nine
games left here the rest of this season to see
what Jermaine is. And I'm not part of the hive
on Twitter that right now thinks that Jermaine Burton is
being blackballed and not giving every opportunity he deserves. He
will earn his opportunities. That's aught he played in the
snaps he played Sunday against Philadelphia. I thought there was
(09:30):
a lot of good I really do, And I think
Zach echoed that on Monday in his press conference when
he said that he's probably going to see more snaps
going forward. So this is part of that process of
now investing in the guys you drafted, especially at that position.
So to answer your question, I still think, obviously the
defense is going to be the big talking point for
(09:50):
this team and talent acquisition going forward. But we've seen
this team now without T Higgins in three games this year,
and it doesn't look good. So if this team is
going to figure out what they are without Tea going forward,
they need to figure out if Jermaine Burton is that
answer or if they have to go into this offseason
targeting a high round draft pick. When I say high round,
(10:13):
I say first or second round wide receiver or making
a splash and free agency. And I think that has
now become a major priority for this team going forward.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Bengals ownership and the player personnel department are often described
as cheap, as stubborn, and as stuck in their ways.
When you look at the examples in the past of
an Andrew Whitworth or a Jesse Bates or a DJ
Reader and maybe even in the future of a T.
(10:44):
Higgins and how they have allowed those players to walk
and they've continued to play at an elite level moving forward.
Can those sorts of situations actually change the perspective and
the philosophy of those in the front office US when
it comes to team building.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
That's a great question, and you you would hope, you
would hope that the number of examples of players they've
let walk and has come back to bite them and
they have to watch them from afar play well with
wakes them up. And I know the Andrew Whitworth clip
was making its way around Twitter last night as I
was scrolling during timeouts of the Monday night football game,
(11:26):
and certainly what Jesse Bates. It always seems like Jesse
Bates plays his best games on the same day when
the Bengals defense plays its worst. Uh yeah, I would
think that should be a wake up call. And it's
interesting too because the philosophy, at least under Marvin, and
we know Marvin had unique say within the organization that
maybe even Zach doesn't have right now. In his time
(11:49):
in Cincinnati, Marvin was all about drafting, developing, rewarding. That
that was their that was their philosophy, that was their blueprint,
that's how they did things that I don't know if
that has changed in recent years with what happened with
you know, obviously Andrew had had time under Marvin, but
but Jesse Bays happening under Zach and some of those
(12:12):
players who have walked and gone on to do great things.
But that's what this is supposed to be. And I
think two and to your point, you and I were
talking on Sunday about the development of players and these
young players they invest high draft picks in. And I've
done this on the show before, I won't I won't
do it again. But if you go back to the
twenty twenty three and twenty twenty two drafts, the Bengals
(12:33):
knew this was coming, right, They knew that Joe Burrow
price tag was coming. They knew that Jamar Chase price
tag was coming. That they had to invest draft picks
over and over and over again on defense, and they
used each of their first three round draft picks each
year on defensive players. And you can look at them.
I don't have to go through the names. For the
(12:54):
most part, their misses and the one hit Cam Taylor
Britt has regressed this season. So the other question is,
it's not just it's not just the front office, it's
not just the scheme from the coaches. It's not just
the performance. It's also the development right of these players,
these these young guys. They've invested draft picks in that
they can let these veteran guys walk because they're going
(13:16):
to draft their replacements and these guys are gonna come in.
And it isn't it striking when Andrew Whitwork talks about
it that they drafted Cedric obwayhe and Jake Fisher and
told him that they were going to be his replacement.
Does that not give you a peak right now? Just
a little bit into their their ability to scout talent
and get that right, And that to me would be
(13:37):
the biggest fear of the fan base. Like I said,
anybody can draft Joe, anybody can draft Jamar. When you
have those top five picks, you gotta win drafts in
those second and third round picks. Look at the Kansas
City Chiefs undefeated seven to zero. Their offense is mediocre,
they're okay right now, but ken of their eleven starters
(13:57):
on defense are people they drafted and people they developed.
They saw it coming same thing as the Bengals with
Patrick Mahomes, but they've done a much better job of
targeting guys that they can draft and develop and they
developed them into a championship defense.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah. I mean, I'm just sitting I'm here. I'm sitting
here with so many different thoughts about like the direction
that this can go. I know, Lance McAllister said he
wrote something on WLW this morning that the Bengals are
closer to a rebuild than they are a Super Bowl
That's a sobering reality for a team that came into
(14:37):
this season with the expectation that they can win a
Super Bowl, And I just don't know. It's tough when
it feels like everybody can see it. You can see it,
I can see it, the fans can see it, and
yet there does not seem to be that commitment or
that understanding, or quite frankly, an attitude that they care
(15:00):
from the people inside the organization, primarily in the front office.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Well, the hard thing is, Austin we saw this in
the offseason when they were signing Von Bell and there
was all the vibes in Cincinnati right von Bell's back.
You know, the big hit on jujus Mith Schuster, the
play in the eighty championship that that was Von Bell
three or four years ago. And you know, when you
get to the age he's at right now, you know,
the athleticism, the speed that that stuff drop saw, Oh,
(15:26):
Gino Stones are going to bring him in. Veteran guys
played a lot of football, and we've talked about this
on this show. The idea that oh, they're going to
get lined up better, the Bengals are going to be
much better in the thirty seconds leading up to the
play when they get everybody aligned. But it's what are
you doing in the four to six seconds when the
ball had snapped and there's a play to be made
on the field. You saw it Sunday the Eagles, the
(15:48):
deep ball, the one deep shot the Bengals took. You
had a tip pass and a safety who was able
to close ground and be there for a tip pass
and make a great play. Now you can say it's
a lucky play, but the fact that he was fast enough,
athletic enough, had the instincts to get there put himself
in that position. On the flip side. Von Bell wasn't
good enough. They take him out of the game. They
put Jordan Battle in and Devonte Smith makes them look
(16:11):
like a novice trying to track a deep ball for
one of the biggest plays of the game. We saw
this in the offseason when they made the acquisition they
made Von Bell and Geno Stone to be your starting safeties.
Was not going to be good enough in twenty twenty
four NFL football, I I'll admit I thought Sheldon Rankins
was a nice pick I thought this team a nice pickup.
(16:33):
I thought he needed somebody in the interior defensive line
to be a difference maker, or the pass rush. Maybe
he could be the compliment to go with Trey Henderson
hasn't worked out, hasn't fit for whatever reason. But when
those are your big signings, those are the people you're
relying on. To me, it wasn't good enough, and I
understand their hamstrung by what they can pay now to
(16:55):
your point about it might feel like there's this feeling
that the front office doesn't want to win. They went
all in. You got to give them credit. They went
all in in twenty twenty one and it paid off.
They went to a super Bowl the next year, they
went to the AFC Championship. So they understood what they
had and Joe and Jamar and what they could do
with them if they've built around them. So you have
(17:16):
to give them credit. If you're going to criticize them now,
I will never believe. I will never believe Mike Brown
and the front office doesn't want to win a championship.
From the conversation I had with him every year before
training camp starts, the man is passionate about winning a championship.
There's no doubt in my mind. I just wonder if
(17:38):
they're equipped enough from a talent evaluation point to find
the right people to fit at the right price tag
for the right positions at the right time. I just
wonder if they're able to do that now. Lastly, to
Lance's point about rebuilding, when you're rebuilding with Joe Burrow
and Jamar Chase, you're in a great spot. Yeah, you're
(18:00):
only a few players away. We understand that, and that's
why the word rebuilt might be just a little bit
too strong. Retooling, right, that has to happen. That have
to be the emphasis this offseason. They've got to get
better on defense. They have to be better about drafting
guys that will hit, and they have to be better
(18:21):
about finding guys in free agency that will be impact players.
There is not a single impact player on this defense
outside of Trey Henderson. That's the truth at this point.
There's no game changer, there's no playmaker, there's no impact player.
They've got one, and someday he was taken out of
the game for whatever reason, didn't play well, and you
saw what happened.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah, And I think rebuilds in the NFL happened very
very quickly, just the way you know it works and
to have those two, as you mentioned, is obviously a
big deal. And yeah, to clarify, I mean, there's no
doubt in my mind that that Mike and Katie and
Troy they want to win desperately. But do you want
to win to the point where you're willing to change
(19:01):
your philosophy? And the answer to that question to me
was yes a couple of years ago because of what
you just talked about, the way that they went all in.
But in order to be an elite franchise in the
National Football League, you have to be willing to do
things you're uncomfortable with. You have to be willing to evolve,
and you can't keep trying to force a square peg
into a round hole. It just doesn't work. You can
(19:23):
see that across the NFL where teams have shifted, and
I think that's one of the big question marks with
the Bengals. Joe, thank you so much for your time.
You're always way too gracious with it. Thank you for
stopping by. What can Bengals fans look forward to with
your coverage this week on Fox nineteen.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Big Week Wednesday night, six o'clock, We'll be taping Bengals
Now at Newport on the levee, So we're doing that
six o'clock this coming Wednesday night is going to come
down there, have a chance to meet some of the players.
And then Sunday the game is on our air, so
we will be going o nine to ten am live
pregame show at the stadium. Then the Bengals have their
(20:04):
one hour block of programming they produce on our air
ten to eleven. Then we go straight into the Fox
pregame show and then Bengals had one. So you're looking
at Bengals in NFL coverage from nine am to four
pm on Sunday on Fox nineteen.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Have you ever met Terry Bradshaw?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
I have not. No, I have not.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
What about Kurt Menefee?
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Have not? They don't leave the studio, at least when
they do leave the studio, it's you know, they go
somewhere outside in.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
La I bet Kurt Menefee would be a good guy
to have a couple of beers with.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
He does seem like that. He can think on his toes. Man,
he's an impressive job.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
All right, Joe, thank you so much. Man. We'll talk
to you next week.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
See Austin.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
That is Joe Daneman The Dean Fox nineteen. A lot
of good stuff in there, man, it's just a tough
spot for Bengals fans to be in. Talkbacks are next
ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Now your chance to win a thousand dollars. Enter this
nationwide keyword on our website, deposit. That's deposit. Enter it now.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Hey, it's my legger.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Intentionally Disturbing
Join me on this podcast as I navigate the murky waters of human behavior, current events, and personal anecdotes through in-depth interviews with incredible people—all served with a generous helping of sarcasm and satire. After years as a forensic and clinical psychologist, I offer a unique interview style and a low tolerance for bullshit, quickly steering conversations toward depth and darkness. I honor the seriousness while also appreciating wit. I’m your guide through the twisted labyrinth of the human psyche, armed with dark humor and biting wit.