April 11, 2025 • 18 mins
Tony and Austin talk Reds and some Bengals with Charlie Goldsmith on ESPN 1530!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From Cincinnati, sponsored in part by Cincy Shirts. Cincy Shirts
All Cincy, all Day. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome back, Cincy three to sixty. ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station. Thanks for joining us. We're a service of
Cincy Shirts. Check out Cincy shirts dot com. They got
the Charlie Goldsmith shirt on there. They're also going to
help give us away a gift card coming up later
in talkbacks best talk back of the Week's gonna get
a gift card. Speaking of our guy, Charlie Goldsmith. He
joins us now to talk some Reds and maybe little Bengals.
(00:38):
What's up, Charlie, Tony? How you doing, Charlie? Is anyone
from the Bearcats reached out about any remaining eligibility you
may have. They are looking for guards currently in the portal.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
You know, here's actually a little known fact. I was
more of a four even a small ball five year wow. Really,
so my brother's like six, two big guys. I grew
up learning how to play the post, and so it
was kind of I was kind of like a fun
change of pace defender for the best guy ever guarded
was David Johnson. Who you know ended up being a star.
(01:10):
Not I think he did not quite a star, but
had a really nice career at Ohio State on the
football team they beat us by twenty But I guarded him, man,
I can down.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I could see you like the big fundamental goose.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Egg you So, I mean his role on that team.
It was with the twenty sixteen stomach team that was
a squad shut out Sam Martin. You know I ended
up being at Cincinnati. The offense ran through him. I
swear to god, he might as well have been Steph
Curry with how difficulty was to stop. So David was
more of a dirty warning eye on that team. Obviously
an incredible athlete, but they had two real lights out guard.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Unbelievable, Charlie, this is just going off the rails right now.
Sam Martin is currently on my even Dale rectal rec
team squad. Wow, he's our guard.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
He's and again if he's not as good now I'm
looking bad. But for our level with where we were at,
he was. I really maybe the most respect for any
guy I went up against, competitive wise, the way he
ran that offense and the way he played.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Love this. You certainly you talk about respect let's just
transition that to Hunter Green's game right now. A lot
of respect for Hunter Green, but we had Joe Daniman
on the show earlier the week in the week and
he said, when you get Charlie back on, you've got
to pose the question to Charlie which happens first, Ellie
de la Cruz is gonna win an MVP or Hunter
(02:26):
Green is gonna win a cy Young.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah, I've changed my tune on this at this point.
Last year, I would have definitely said Ellie, but Hunter
building off of what he did last year, and even
more impressive, growing and improving off what he did last year.
Like I mean, you guys know how high I am
on Ellie de la Cruz. But Ellie's adjustments heading into
twenty twenty five have been suntle. They haven't quite shown
up yet. He'll be fine, he'll have a great season.
(02:51):
But Green's adjustments and improvements entering twenty twenty five they
slappy in the face. You look at the you just
look at the build of his upper body, how he slimmer,
how that helps him be you know, not better shape,
but better endurance, and how that shows up late in games.
You see the added confidence in the splitter. When the
Reds kind of came back from spring training, the first
(03:12):
thing anyone said to me was trying to make sure
you look out for how much Hunter's slaughter has improved
this season, and that's obviously on display. I mean, these
improvements with Hunter just flappy in the face. If he
stays healthy and makes thirty starts, which isn't guarantee at all,
I'd have no doubt that Hunter would be a top
five or maybe higher in the cy Young voted.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
If we weren't talking about how good Hunter has been,
we can also talk about how good Brady Singer and
Nick Lodolo have been early on for this team. What
do you see that leads to the most success for
those guys.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Let me start with this, like Lodolo has become criminally underrated.
Like you know, even as recently as last year, you'd
have people making real arguments, real smart baseball people that
they'd rather have Nick Lodola than Hunter Green. Now the
leap the Hunter has made since then, you don't hear
that as much. But whenever Nick Lodola has been healthy,
he's been really really good to borderline great. If you
(04:06):
just look at that sample of starts. What's been so
impressive to me about Nick Lodolo was earlier in his
career when the breaking ball wasn't snapping with two strikes,
he kind of got not frustrated, but it just kind
of wouldn't be as sharp of a day for him.
It would be more of a run of the mill start.
His breaking ball is not even on yet, he's doing
what he's doing because of the way he's moving his
(04:29):
sinker around the zone. And then this change up that
has really blossomed and become a ground ball pitch, which
is a brand new element in Nick Lodolo's game, which
gives him a whole nother level of efficiency. And then
things another old fashioned, old school pitcher as well, who's
a good guy to have as you know, your number
four in this red rotation, I mean, this is a
playoff quality rotation. They've just got to hit.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
When you look at the possible return of Andrew Abbott,
how much can he help? And the next step you
think that maybe he needs to take in his development
to continue being successful.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
The one game the regularly haven't been in was that
Sunday in Milwaukee where just a bad day for Spired
on top of Terry Francona and not showing overwhelming confidence
pulling spire. I believe that was early in the fourth inning.
So if you're a place too with the guy and
Andrew Abbot, who has just been a solid, steady pitcher,
even though he hasn't gone on another run yet, like
(05:25):
you went on as a rookie. Abbo's a guy who
if he can get back to establishing that fastball at
the top of the zone, it'll really click for him.
And kind of something we forget too with Abbot is
and this is a true story. When the Reds named
Hunter Green an All Star, he was a replacement for
the All Star Game last year. They called us in
(05:45):
they told us they were naming another All Star. I
remember having a conversation with someone in that moment that, oh,
is it Abbot or Green? Because Abbot's stats at that
point were actually even tick better with Hunter Greens. And
you can make the case that Abbot at that point
was having a better season as a whole, and then
the shoulder injury kind of led to him dropping off
and stating away and then going on the IL. But
when out of Telvey, I mean, that's the kind of
(06:07):
season he was having last year. Definitely a guy they
really believe in.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
From a health standpoint, between Austin Hayes and Tyler Stevenson
and Matt McClain and others, where do things stand as
we talk here today from an injury standpoint and hoping
to get this roster back to us as close to
full strength soon as possible.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Hayes started a rehab assignment last night. I guess the
game got rained out. He probably wouldn't need to play
too much. I'm sure he'd love to be activated by
the time the Bengal the Red Faces former team in
Baltimore next week. That McClain, that will be an important
update that we get today. They've gone out of their
way to talk about slight precautionary not too concerned. But
(06:47):
for McClean, who one of his defining aspects is he's
a very tightly wound athlete and that's where his power
comes from. But it's also led to the hamstring, the
oblique soft tissue conversation that have come up over the
course of his career. Today will be an important update
just seeing how he's respond how he's responding based off
that Stevenson, he got that great MRI, but he barely
(07:10):
had a spring training. He's going to need to ramp
up he pitches to need to play on a rehab assignment.
Another important one too, Spencer Steer looking a lot better
at the plate, but he's still not quite zipping it
from a throwing progression standpoint, so probably still some more
time before we see him in the field.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Time that you spent it at spring training. Charlie. Everyone
that I've talked to has gone out of their way
to talk about how good Austin Hayes looked at spring training.
Do you second that as well? Were you blown away
at the production before the injury? For Austin Hayes, the.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Power in the opposite field power was something I didn't
quite recognize he had. Now maybe I should have, because
kind of an under the radar, under the hood stats
thing is Austin Hayes. I believe the number is would
have hit twenty eight home runs in twenty twenty three
had he been playing in Great American Ballpark. He was
probably the biggest victim of what they called the Waltimore Get.
(08:04):
It's kind of a bad pun not the Green Monster,
but a really far back, really deep left field sense
that was such a big deal that like pre agents
didn't want to sign in Baltimore because they knew they
wouldn't be able to hit homers there, And I mean
that took away a whole lot of opportunity for has
to hit for power. Baltimore has actually moved the fence
back in because of kind of how how dumb it
was and how much it was negatively impacting kind of
(08:26):
everything going on with their team. So he did truly
show the signs of that power in Baltimore. But even still,
like I mean, when he walks in the room, he's
not a guy you I mean, he kind of looks
like a TJ. Friedel who you know can hit for
some power to or you know, you know Jacob Hurdaby's
type and Herdebee is a great athlete, but he's not
a home run hitter. And then you watch him make
(08:48):
contact and he does some real damage. That's why Hayes
is the guy who even in just spring training, went
from a potential platoon player to the everyday clean up guy.
And again, this Red team needs to spark, and you know,
it's a lot of hope right now, obviously, but they're
hoping that hay brings it to him.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Through the first two weeks of the season. How do
you assess the performance of Terry Francona as the Reds manager.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Terry Francona is being Terry Francona, and you're seeing defining
traits that include patients, that include not shaking things up,
that includes lineup consistency, sticking to guys in the spots
that he believes him and having an explanation for why
guys are in those spots. Now, there have been a
lot of decisions that that are definitely a shock to
(09:36):
the system. And you know, a lot of decisions that
I mean again, maybe you or I would have done differently.
I don't know that matters. I think the I think.
Another thing you're seeing is how much Terry Francona is
the opposite of David Bell from an in game decision standpoint,
how heavily. And this isn't bad at all, It's just
different philosophy. David one re lot on analytics, two was
(09:58):
willing to make changes more quickly from a big picture standpoint,
and three David and I didn't even realize this until
after he was gone. David actually was one of the
most aggressive again that's not good, that's not bad, but
aggressive game decision makers that you'll see like David would
do the equivalent of going for it on fourth down
a lot terry Frank Conan would punter or take the
(10:18):
points a lot Not good, not bad, just difference. And
I think that the shock in the system there is
why that leads to so much conversation. Frank Cona's approach.
His idea is it's the kind of thing that plays
out over the long haul. You see benefits as a
post for one specific instance, one moment, those two small
example size and there have been missed opportunities that have
(10:39):
been left on the table, certainly in these games out
of Lli hitting second side, you know, use your bench
more aggressively in certain spots with pinchhinting opportunities. But he's
doing what he believes in and it's the kind of
thing because it's a patient approach you can only really
evaluate over time.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Do you also think that part of it is he's
continuing to learn about the team and about the players
and what they're good at in certain situations, and and
that will give him an idea of things to come
over the course of an entire season. Like he's still
learning this roster.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Do you think from a pitching side, I think no,
because DA Derek Johnson is so heavily involved there from
a hitting side. Like it's funny, you know, he spent
on springs training learning this roster, this roster that had
McClain and Stevenson and Hayes on it. There were flaws
in the roster right now, and that gives limitations to
the manager. Now, does that mean Blake dun should be
(11:35):
hitting second against right handed pitching? Probably not, But I
think again it's not like he and that was one
of the big flags in Cleveland actually, like even when
he was there forever like he picked the wrong guys.
He in the front office and they let a lot
of really talented players walk or go who were like
fringe guys who ended up breaking out after Cleveland kind
(11:55):
of gave up on them. Like think Will Benson, except
that Will Benson would have would have stuck in, stayed
in that consistent role. It's too early yet, It's probably
not enough overall track record and talent on the roster
to evaluate which guys he's putting in which spots, But
certainly from an analytical perspective, a lot of these moves
have come up a surprise just from an in game
(12:16):
decision making pinchating lineup construction standpoint.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
I've heard some say recently that this disparity between Triple
A in the big leagues is as big as it's
ever been. We saw Will Benson obviously struggle, and that's
not an easy assignment going up against Justin Verlander. But
have you heard that Do you agree with that assessment?
Speaker 3 (12:38):
It's like very very very obvious. It's like one of
those things that everyone just kind of says and agrees upon,
is a fact that that disparity is as big as
it's ever been, like because of pitching injuries taken away
from the quality of pitching in Triple A in the
minor leagues that are now you're allowed to have fewer
players on your minor league rosters, so you want to
(12:59):
keep the young guys in the organization. So there's this
like tier of say thirty year olds. Like perfect example
is I guess that's not as much because he's a
position player, but like same idea, Nick Senzel is playing
in Mexico right now. Ten years ago, Nick Senzel would
have been in Triple A because there were more spots,
and you'd have a thirty year old in that spot
(13:19):
in your organization. That's even more true on the pitching side.
A great example to explain this is like Nick Martini
in twenty twenty four last year, he was lost to
start the season. There had thought he figured some stuff out,
and they sent him down to Triple A and he raped,
but he didn't because that was kind of a mirage
what was going on in Triple A. That's an example
of how you can't really know what to expect from
(13:40):
both from both Benson and Marte going forward, for sure.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Charlie Austin asked about kind of evaluating Terry Francona through
this early part of the season. If I said the
same thing with Elie de la Cruz, what would be
your answer. We saw a great start, a little bit
more of struggling lately, a couple of airs in the field.
How do you evaluate what the supers been able to do?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Ellie's fine, He's going to be fine. He's had some
missed opportunities. He'd like to see him deliver more and
some tight spots. He'd like to see him maybe take
a little more of an on base and or on approach.
Maybe it's a realistic conversation. Is Lle seeing what's going
on and trying to really be the spark for the
first time in his career, kind of embracing being the
guy in the lineup, And maybe that approach is not
(14:25):
having a negative impact that's showing up in the way
he's approaching me that beat. Maybe that's all true. But
you know, for not one second is there any concern
about Ellie. He's going to be fine. It's maybe just
seeing more what his role is on this team based
on the construction of this team right now. But again,
Elie de la Cruz is going to be just fine.
Of all the things to worry about, that's not one.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
As we sit here, just to switch gears for a question,
I know the draft is coming up fast. Have have
you settled in on a position that you think the
Bengals are going to attack with that that first round
pick or are you still kind of up in the
air with a couple different ones.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, then working through the process of setting my board
this week, I'm pretty much close to Donk for the
first round perspective. What my big focus is is because
this defense still hasn't improved is finding playmaking and instincts
and aggressiveness on the defense in round one. So like
I'm gonna have linebacker jo Hot Campbell ranked really high,
even though I never have a live backer ranked is high.
(15:21):
I do think his pass rush value adds some added
opportunities and added reason to make that pick. The reason
I have him ranked over safety Malachi Starts. U's another
versatile piece that could step in right away day one
is your free safety and then also kind of grow
into that full time post role over the course of
his career. Defensive tackle Derek Carmon most pressures of any
(15:45):
interior player in the FBS last year, just a sturdy
know what you're going to get prospects looking for playmakers
there is my focus. You can also take advantage of
how deep dishrafted on the defensive line by addressing your
needs at line backer, safety, and guards on day one
and two and expecting a realistic contributor to fall to
(16:05):
you on the line later in the draft. The big
question is are they drafting for twenty twenty five or
twenty twenty six. You know, if they're drafting for twenty
twenty six, they definitely need to take an Edgdrusher earlier.
If it's drafting for twenty twenty five, well, they don't
know who their starters at linebacker is safety are going
to be? Of course you need a guard. They are
about five. I see is fixed between day two and
day three. So it'll be fine. The Bengals will be fine.
(16:28):
They'll stick to their board in round one and then
some depth helps them out on the defensive line in particular.
For sure.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Before we let you go, Charlie, our Revivefitnessystems dot Com
poll question today, which do you have more faith in
the Bengals defense or the reds offense?
Speaker 3 (16:48):
The Red Dolphins has Elie de la Cruz, and it
should have Matt McClean singh, and I think that they
also have an identity of base running and athleticism. The
Bengals defense is just still a complete wild card. And yes,
I like Logan Wilson. Trey Hendrickson's great, and I guess
he's probably the closest comp to Ellie in this analogy.
Maybe Wilson's more of a Spencer Steer, but aside from that,
(17:09):
it's a bunch of guys who had rocky seasons, a
bunch of guys the Bengals look to sign or draft
over and are probably still looking to do so. If
they draft over them, it'll be a lot of rookies.
I do still think that when this Red Dofhense is
fully healthy, you know more what to expect from that group.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Charlie, you're the best man.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
I know.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
You've got a lot of stuff going on right now.
What's the easiest way for folks to follow along with
everything Red's, Bengals and everything else related.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Today on Charlie's Shockboard, we've got our deep dive into
the Safeties and how the draft class impacts with the
Bengals and Al golden impact for the Bengals approach could
be there. And we also just dropped a power Stacked
podcast yesterday, me and brigen jus Law breaking down Hunter
Green breaking down Cher Francona's philosophy as well. That's been
a really fun project to get going.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Charlie, you are the best man. Have a great weekend.
We'll talk again next week. Thanks Charlie.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
See you guys.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
There He is Charlie Goldsmith covering the Reds, covering the Bengals. Awesome,
awesome stuff as always from Charlie. Now we'll turn to
you with a listener. Your talkbacks next. Thanks to CINCI
shirts at Cincy three sixty on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Hey Alexa
From Cincinnati, sponsored in part by Cincy Shirts. Cincy Shirts
All Cincy, all Day. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome back, Cincy three to sixty. ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station. Thanks for joining us. We're a service of
Cincy Shirts. Check out Cincy shirts dot com. They got
the Charlie Goldsmith shirt on there. They're also going to
help give us away a gift card coming up later
in talkbacks best talk back of the Week's gonna get
a gift card. Speaking of our guy, Charlie Goldsmith. He
joins us now to talk some Reds and maybe little Bengals.
(00:38):
What's up, Charlie, Tony? How you doing, Charlie? Is anyone
from the Bearcats reached out about any remaining eligibility you
may have. They are looking for guards currently in the portal.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
You know, here's actually a little known fact. I was
more of a four even a small ball five year wow. Really,
so my brother's like six, two big guys. I grew
up learning how to play the post, and so it
was kind of I was kind of like a fun
change of pace defender for the best guy ever guarded
was David Johnson. Who you know ended up being a star.
(01:10):
Not I think he did not quite a star, but
had a really nice career at Ohio State on the
football team they beat us by twenty But I guarded him, man,
I can down.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I could see you like the big fundamental goose.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Egg you So, I mean his role on that team.
It was with the twenty sixteen stomach team that was
a squad shut out Sam Martin. You know I ended
up being at Cincinnati. The offense ran through him. I
swear to god, he might as well have been Steph
Curry with how difficulty was to stop. So David was
more of a dirty warning eye on that team. Obviously
an incredible athlete, but they had two real lights out guard.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Unbelievable, Charlie, this is just going off the rails right now.
Sam Martin is currently on my even Dale rectal rec
team squad. Wow, he's our guard.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
He's and again if he's not as good now I'm
looking bad. But for our level with where we were at,
he was. I really maybe the most respect for any
guy I went up against, competitive wise, the way he
ran that offense and the way he played.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Love this. You certainly you talk about respect let's just
transition that to Hunter Green's game right now. A lot
of respect for Hunter Green, but we had Joe Daniman
on the show earlier the week in the week and
he said, when you get Charlie back on, you've got
to pose the question to Charlie which happens first, Ellie
de la Cruz is gonna win an MVP or Hunter
(02:26):
Green is gonna win a cy Young.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah, I've changed my tune on this at this point.
Last year, I would have definitely said Ellie, but Hunter
building off of what he did last year, and even
more impressive, growing and improving off what he did last year.
Like I mean, you guys know how high I am
on Ellie de la Cruz. But Ellie's adjustments heading into
twenty twenty five have been suntle. They haven't quite shown
up yet. He'll be fine, he'll have a great season.
(02:51):
But Green's adjustments and improvements entering twenty twenty five they
slappy in the face. You look at the you just
look at the build of his upper body, how he slimmer,
how that helps him be you know, not better shape,
but better endurance, and how that shows up late in games.
You see the added confidence in the splitter. When the
Reds kind of came back from spring training, the first
(03:12):
thing anyone said to me was trying to make sure
you look out for how much Hunter's slaughter has improved
this season, and that's obviously on display. I mean, these
improvements with Hunter just flappy in the face. If he
stays healthy and makes thirty starts, which isn't guarantee at all,
I'd have no doubt that Hunter would be a top
five or maybe higher in the cy Young voted.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
If we weren't talking about how good Hunter has been,
we can also talk about how good Brady Singer and
Nick Lodolo have been early on for this team. What
do you see that leads to the most success for
those guys.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Let me start with this, like Lodolo has become criminally underrated.
Like you know, even as recently as last year, you'd
have people making real arguments, real smart baseball people that
they'd rather have Nick Lodola than Hunter Green. Now the
leap the Hunter has made since then, you don't hear
that as much. But whenever Nick Lodola has been healthy,
he's been really really good to borderline great. If you
(04:06):
just look at that sample of starts. What's been so
impressive to me about Nick Lodolo was earlier in his
career when the breaking ball wasn't snapping with two strikes,
he kind of got not frustrated, but it just kind
of wouldn't be as sharp of a day for him.
It would be more of a run of the mill start.
His breaking ball is not even on yet, he's doing
what he's doing because of the way he's moving his
(04:29):
sinker around the zone. And then this change up that
has really blossomed and become a ground ball pitch, which
is a brand new element in Nick Lodolo's game, which
gives him a whole nother level of efficiency. And then
things another old fashioned, old school pitcher as well, who's
a good guy to have as you know, your number
four in this red rotation, I mean, this is a
playoff quality rotation. They've just got to hit.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
When you look at the possible return of Andrew Abbott,
how much can he help? And the next step you
think that maybe he needs to take in his development
to continue being successful.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
The one game the regularly haven't been in was that
Sunday in Milwaukee where just a bad day for Spired
on top of Terry Francona and not showing overwhelming confidence
pulling spire. I believe that was early in the fourth inning.
So if you're a place too with the guy and
Andrew Abbot, who has just been a solid, steady pitcher,
even though he hasn't gone on another run yet, like
(05:25):
you went on as a rookie. Abbo's a guy who
if he can get back to establishing that fastball at
the top of the zone, it'll really click for him.
And kind of something we forget too with Abbot is
and this is a true story. When the Reds named
Hunter Green an All Star, he was a replacement for
the All Star Game last year. They called us in
(05:45):
they told us they were naming another All Star. I
remember having a conversation with someone in that moment that, oh,
is it Abbot or Green? Because Abbot's stats at that
point were actually even tick better with Hunter Greens. And
you can make the case that Abbot at that point
was having a better season as a whole, and then
the shoulder injury kind of led to him dropping off
and stating away and then going on the IL. But
when out of Telvey, I mean, that's the kind of
(06:07):
season he was having last year. Definitely a guy they
really believe in.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
From a health standpoint, between Austin Hayes and Tyler Stevenson
and Matt McClain and others, where do things stand as
we talk here today from an injury standpoint and hoping
to get this roster back to us as close to
full strength soon as possible.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Hayes started a rehab assignment last night. I guess the
game got rained out. He probably wouldn't need to play
too much. I'm sure he'd love to be activated by
the time the Bengal the Red Faces former team in
Baltimore next week. That McClain, that will be an important
update that we get today. They've gone out of their
way to talk about slight precautionary not too concerned. But
(06:47):
for McClean, who one of his defining aspects is he's
a very tightly wound athlete and that's where his power
comes from. But it's also led to the hamstring, the
oblique soft tissue conversation that have come up over the
course of his career. Today will be an important update
just seeing how he's respond how he's responding based off
that Stevenson, he got that great MRI, but he barely
(07:10):
had a spring training. He's going to need to ramp
up he pitches to need to play on a rehab assignment.
Another important one too, Spencer Steer looking a lot better
at the plate, but he's still not quite zipping it
from a throwing progression standpoint, so probably still some more
time before we see him in the field.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Time that you spent it at spring training. Charlie. Everyone
that I've talked to has gone out of their way
to talk about how good Austin Hayes looked at spring training.
Do you second that as well? Were you blown away
at the production before the injury? For Austin Hayes, the.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Power in the opposite field power was something I didn't
quite recognize he had. Now maybe I should have, because
kind of an under the radar, under the hood stats
thing is Austin Hayes. I believe the number is would
have hit twenty eight home runs in twenty twenty three
had he been playing in Great American Ballpark. He was
probably the biggest victim of what they called the Waltimore Get.
(08:04):
It's kind of a bad pun not the Green Monster,
but a really far back, really deep left field sense
that was such a big deal that like pre agents
didn't want to sign in Baltimore because they knew they
wouldn't be able to hit homers there, And I mean
that took away a whole lot of opportunity for has
to hit for power. Baltimore has actually moved the fence
back in because of kind of how how dumb it
was and how much it was negatively impacting kind of
(08:26):
everything going on with their team. So he did truly
show the signs of that power in Baltimore. But even still,
like I mean, when he walks in the room, he's
not a guy you I mean, he kind of looks
like a TJ. Friedel who you know can hit for
some power to or you know, you know Jacob Hurdaby's
type and Herdebee is a great athlete, but he's not
a home run hitter. And then you watch him make
(08:48):
contact and he does some real damage. That's why Hayes
is the guy who even in just spring training, went
from a potential platoon player to the everyday clean up guy.
And again, this Red team needs to spark, and you know,
it's a lot of hope right now, obviously, but they're
hoping that hay brings it to him.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Through the first two weeks of the season. How do
you assess the performance of Terry Francona as the Reds manager.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Terry Francona is being Terry Francona, and you're seeing defining
traits that include patients, that include not shaking things up,
that includes lineup consistency, sticking to guys in the spots
that he believes him and having an explanation for why
guys are in those spots. Now, there have been a
lot of decisions that that are definitely a shock to
(09:36):
the system. And you know, a lot of decisions that
I mean again, maybe you or I would have done differently.
I don't know that matters. I think the I think.
Another thing you're seeing is how much Terry Francona is
the opposite of David Bell from an in game decision standpoint,
how heavily. And this isn't bad at all, It's just
different philosophy. David one re lot on analytics, two was
(09:58):
willing to make changes more quickly from a big picture standpoint,
and three David and I didn't even realize this until
after he was gone. David actually was one of the
most aggressive again that's not good, that's not bad, but
aggressive game decision makers that you'll see like David would
do the equivalent of going for it on fourth down
a lot terry Frank Conan would punter or take the
(10:18):
points a lot Not good, not bad, just difference. And
I think that the shock in the system there is
why that leads to so much conversation. Frank Cona's approach.
His idea is it's the kind of thing that plays
out over the long haul. You see benefits as a
post for one specific instance, one moment, those two small
example size and there have been missed opportunities that have
(10:39):
been left on the table, certainly in these games out
of Lli hitting second side, you know, use your bench
more aggressively in certain spots with pinchhinting opportunities. But he's
doing what he believes in and it's the kind of
thing because it's a patient approach you can only really
evaluate over time.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Do you also think that part of it is he's
continuing to learn about the team and about the players
and what they're good at in certain situations, and and
that will give him an idea of things to come
over the course of an entire season. Like he's still
learning this roster.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Do you think from a pitching side, I think no,
because DA Derek Johnson is so heavily involved there from
a hitting side. Like it's funny, you know, he spent
on springs training learning this roster, this roster that had
McClain and Stevenson and Hayes on it. There were flaws
in the roster right now, and that gives limitations to
the manager. Now, does that mean Blake dun should be
(11:35):
hitting second against right handed pitching? Probably not, But I
think again it's not like he and that was one
of the big flags in Cleveland actually, like even when
he was there forever like he picked the wrong guys.
He in the front office and they let a lot
of really talented players walk or go who were like
fringe guys who ended up breaking out after Cleveland kind
(11:55):
of gave up on them. Like think Will Benson, except
that Will Benson would have would have stuck in, stayed
in that consistent role. It's too early yet, It's probably
not enough overall track record and talent on the roster
to evaluate which guys he's putting in which spots, But
certainly from an analytical perspective, a lot of these moves
have come up a surprise just from an in game
(12:16):
decision making pinchating lineup construction standpoint.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
I've heard some say recently that this disparity between Triple
A in the big leagues is as big as it's
ever been. We saw Will Benson obviously struggle, and that's
not an easy assignment going up against Justin Verlander. But
have you heard that Do you agree with that assessment?
Speaker 3 (12:38):
It's like very very very obvious. It's like one of
those things that everyone just kind of says and agrees upon,
is a fact that that disparity is as big as
it's ever been, like because of pitching injuries taken away
from the quality of pitching in Triple A in the
minor leagues that are now you're allowed to have fewer
players on your minor league rosters, so you want to
(12:59):
keep the young guys in the organization. So there's this
like tier of say thirty year olds. Like perfect example
is I guess that's not as much because he's a
position player, but like same idea, Nick Senzel is playing
in Mexico right now. Ten years ago, Nick Senzel would
have been in Triple A because there were more spots,
and you'd have a thirty year old in that spot
(13:19):
in your organization. That's even more true on the pitching side.
A great example to explain this is like Nick Martini
in twenty twenty four last year, he was lost to
start the season. There had thought he figured some stuff out,
and they sent him down to Triple A and he raped,
but he didn't because that was kind of a mirage
what was going on in Triple A. That's an example
of how you can't really know what to expect from
(13:40):
both from both Benson and Marte going forward, for sure.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Charlie Austin asked about kind of evaluating Terry Francona through
this early part of the season. If I said the
same thing with Elie de la Cruz, what would be
your answer. We saw a great start, a little bit
more of struggling lately, a couple of airs in the field.
How do you evaluate what the supers been able to do?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Ellie's fine, He's going to be fine. He's had some
missed opportunities. He'd like to see him deliver more and
some tight spots. He'd like to see him maybe take
a little more of an on base and or on approach.
Maybe it's a realistic conversation. Is Lle seeing what's going
on and trying to really be the spark for the
first time in his career, kind of embracing being the
guy in the lineup, And maybe that approach is not
(14:25):
having a negative impact that's showing up in the way
he's approaching me that beat. Maybe that's all true. But
you know, for not one second is there any concern
about Ellie. He's going to be fine. It's maybe just
seeing more what his role is on this team based
on the construction of this team right now. But again,
Elie de la Cruz is going to be just fine.
Of all the things to worry about, that's not one.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
As we sit here, just to switch gears for a question,
I know the draft is coming up fast. Have have
you settled in on a position that you think the
Bengals are going to attack with that that first round
pick or are you still kind of up in the
air with a couple different ones.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, then working through the process of setting my board
this week, I'm pretty much close to Donk for the
first round perspective. What my big focus is is because
this defense still hasn't improved is finding playmaking and instincts
and aggressiveness on the defense in round one. So like
I'm gonna have linebacker jo Hot Campbell ranked really high,
even though I never have a live backer ranked is high.
(15:21):
I do think his pass rush value adds some added
opportunities and added reason to make that pick. The reason
I have him ranked over safety Malachi Starts. U's another
versatile piece that could step in right away day one
is your free safety and then also kind of grow
into that full time post role over the course of
his career. Defensive tackle Derek Carmon most pressures of any
(15:45):
interior player in the FBS last year, just a sturdy
know what you're going to get prospects looking for playmakers
there is my focus. You can also take advantage of
how deep dishrafted on the defensive line by addressing your
needs at line backer, safety, and guards on day one
and two and expecting a realistic contributor to fall to
(16:05):
you on the line later in the draft. The big
question is are they drafting for twenty twenty five or
twenty twenty six. You know, if they're drafting for twenty
twenty six, they definitely need to take an Edgdrusher earlier.
If it's drafting for twenty twenty five, well, they don't
know who their starters at linebacker is safety are going
to be? Of course you need a guard. They are
about five. I see is fixed between day two and
day three. So it'll be fine. The Bengals will be fine.
(16:28):
They'll stick to their board in round one and then
some depth helps them out on the defensive line in particular.
For sure.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Before we let you go, Charlie, our Revivefitnessystems dot Com
poll question today, which do you have more faith in
the Bengals defense or the reds offense?
Speaker 3 (16:48):
The Red Dolphins has Elie de la Cruz, and it
should have Matt McClean singh, and I think that they
also have an identity of base running and athleticism. The
Bengals defense is just still a complete wild card. And yes,
I like Logan Wilson. Trey Hendrickson's great, and I guess
he's probably the closest comp to Ellie in this analogy.
Maybe Wilson's more of a Spencer Steer, but aside from that,
(17:09):
it's a bunch of guys who had rocky seasons, a
bunch of guys the Bengals look to sign or draft
over and are probably still looking to do so. If
they draft over them, it'll be a lot of rookies.
I do still think that when this Red Dofhense is
fully healthy, you know more what to expect from that group.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Charlie, you're the best man.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
I know.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
You've got a lot of stuff going on right now.
What's the easiest way for folks to follow along with
everything Red's, Bengals and everything else related.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Today on Charlie's Shockboard, we've got our deep dive into
the Safeties and how the draft class impacts with the
Bengals and Al golden impact for the Bengals approach could
be there. And we also just dropped a power Stacked
podcast yesterday, me and brigen jus Law breaking down Hunter
Green breaking down Cher Francona's philosophy as well. That's been
a really fun project to get going.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Charlie, you are the best man. Have a great weekend.
We'll talk again next week. Thanks Charlie.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
See you guys.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
There He is Charlie Goldsmith covering the Reds, covering the Bengals. Awesome,
awesome stuff as always from Charlie. Now we'll turn to
you with a listener. Your talkbacks next. Thanks to CINCI
shirts at Cincy three sixty on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Hey Alexa
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