April 22, 2025 • 23 mins
Tony and Austin talk Reds and Bengals and NFL Draft with Joe Danneman from FOX19 on ESPN 1530!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Since E three to sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored
in part by Cincy Shirts. Cincy Shirts all since.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
E all day.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Welcome back Hour two since E three sixty ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Thanks to our friends at Cinci Shirts.
Thank you for listening along. Hour two in the second
day of the week means Joe Daneman is standing by
ready to join us from Fox nineteen.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
He does so now, Hi Joe, how are you?
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Tony? No wwe roth spoilers. I've heard it was an
excellent show last night. Haven't watched you know what? I
was convinced to watch by a bunch of people at work.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Oh is this.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Show on HBO Max called The Last of Us?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (00:50):
I am not a zombie person. I've never watched any
zombie shows. People have convinced me to watch this show.
They've told me that approaching Game of Thrones level good.
I'm a bit skeptical right now, but that's what I
watched last night instead of Raw, So as of now
I'm not fully caught up on any re.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
For what it's worth, the Last of Us is the
single greatest video game I've ever played.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Yes, I've heard the same.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Now I've only seen the show up until last night episode,
so it's a good show.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Are you through season one?
Speaker 4 (01:30):
I'm through season one. I'm caught up. I'm there, man,
I'm all the way caught up. And there's a lot
of zombies. I can tell you now. I would spoil
anything else.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I was told that that season two, episode two was
up there as one of the top episodes from series
in the past.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
You know how it goes though, when people build things
up and they tell you how great it is. And
I live with Game of Thrones on this pedestal that
can't be touched, and people told me this approach Game
of Thrones. Now good episode. Yeah sure, but man, let's
let the goat lie fair and the goat right now?
Is goot Game of.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Throne, Sir?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I have to ask.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
We go from the highs and lows often in the
sports world, from twenty four runs with the Cincinnati Reds
on Sunday to zero through seven innings last night, and
a lot of that is not just on the Cincinnati Reds,
but you tip your captain Max Meyer, who was absolutely fantastic,
but in the Grand scheme of things. How do you
(02:31):
view the game to game highs and lows from your
standpoint of covering a team through one hundred and sixty
two and seeing trends and different things that happened, but
understanding there's such a long way to go. How do
you view what the last two games for the Reds
were like from a high and a low?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
All right, let's unpack this here, And I fall back
on one of the great quotes that Dusty Baker used
to always say, and I say this often to people
to get excited about one result from one game, get
down another result from another game. It's momentum in baseball
is only as good as tomorrow's starting pitcher. And you
saw the difference Sunday in Monday in Baltimore, in Miami.
(03:10):
And my take on this team has been this, And
I said this Sunday night when talking with Jeremy Rowle
on our New Cincinnati Sports show on Fox nineteen about
that plug, I said this, I think this team is
too outcome dependent based on who they face on the mound,
that when they face a bad picture, they absolutely hammer
(03:33):
bad pitchers. When they faced competitive to very good pictures,
you're seeing a team that right now isn't hitting well
enough in those situations. And I can run down the line.
Here you go Baltimore. Right Friday night, they threw a
tomato can. He was bad. Saturday they threw a rookie,
he was bad. Sunday they threw a guy that was
nearly my age. He was terrible. And so the Reds
(03:55):
hammered these guys and they won this series in Baltimore.
But you go back and look at the pitchers the
Reds have faced this year that have a real baseball card,
right and that real success in the major leagues. And
you just name them the Logan Webbs, the Nathan Valdi's,
the Jack Lyders, the Bryce Millers, and now Max Meyer,
who looks like a breakout guy. And I know I'm
naming very good pitchers, but each of those pitchers seem
(04:18):
to baffle the Reds in their own way. And so
right now, when you play what twenty three games so
far in one hundred and fifty two game season, I
don't know what kind of a sample size you need
to say right now, but right now, it's just it
looks like a Red team that when they face elite
pitching can sometimes be overwhelmed, and when they face bad pitchers,
(04:39):
they look like a playoff team. And I think that's
going to be how it plays out for the rest
of the season. And I'll make this last point too
on the Reds offense that if you would have said
twenty three games, end of the season, look at the
stat lines of Austin Hayes, Gavin Lux, and Jose Travino,
and if you look at those stat lines, he would say,
oh my gosh, this is the first place team considering
(05:00):
everything else that's around him. At what point does that
not become as sustainable as it currently is with these
guys hitting at the level they are right now. So
when those guys eventually drop off a little, and maybe
Austin Hayes doesn't, maybe Austin Hayes hits like a cleanup hitter,
and maybe Gavin Lux takes a new role in Cincinnati
and goes out and hits two ninety and there's a
(05:20):
really good gap to gap guy for this team. And
Jose Travino gives the Reds an option behind Tyler Stevenson.
But if they don't, if they do revert back to
what we think they might be, then you're looking at
an offense that might be in some trouble in the
later part of the season unless unless Matt McClain and
Ellie and TJ. Freed can carry this offense and Spencer
(05:42):
Steer two, which I'm sure we'll talk about.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
You mentioned you know what Hayes and Lux and Travino
have done. You could also throw in what the starting
pitching had been and you say, yes, that's a surefire
first place team in the NL Central. They've wasted a
lot of that. Let me I'll ask you because it
seems to be that Okay, ja Mercandle bad place, not
a good hitter. He's been out of the lineup two
(06:04):
days in a row. There seems to be more indictment
there than Okay, Spencer Steeer is hitting one twenty five,
Matt McClain is hitting two twelve.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
How long do you allow.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
It to go before you become more concerned with players
that this organization is counting on to be great. How
long do you give it before it becomes worrisome and
concerning the way you're seeing them approach at bats.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Yeah, I think each player is a case by case basis.
My concern level for Matt McClean is zero. I think
he's the best hitter on the team, just just a
naturally talented hitter, and I think that will will prove
itself as the season goes on. I'm not worried about
Matt McClain. If he's healthy, he's going to hit. My
(06:50):
concern level for him is zero. Jamer Candelario is alarming,
and it's well documented. He starts to heat up as
this season starts to as the season starts to change
into May and June. So we'll see if that changes.
But I do think it's very interesting now that he
hasn't played two consecutive days, as as Terry Francona tries
(07:12):
to kick start this team. But yeah, my level of
concern on Jamer candela Ario was very high, especially considering
the money they're paying him. Spencer steered and we've talked
about him on this show. You know, there's a difference
between worry and concern, and I'm concerned. You know, we
talked about that he hitting the bad luck last year,
that he was hitting the ball hard, it was just
(07:33):
going right at people when he's still finished with decent
power numbers. Here we are twenty three games into this
and we understand what he's coming back from, what he's
dealing with, and he's still hitting so so low in
the low one hundreds, and there's no power and there's
no driving in of runs. My concern level for Spencer
Steer is high. He's a very talented hitter. We know
(07:56):
that when he's right, he's one of the best hitters
on this team, one of the best run producers in
the National League Central. But after twenty three games, how
can you look at him and see the way he's
played and not be concerned that he isn't right, that
the shoulder is somehow affecting him and the way he's
hitting at the plate. So no concern for me. With McClain,
(08:17):
I think you're seeing maybe a bit of phasing out
of jam Or Candelaria, which is interesting considering how much
he's making. But I am very concerned about Spencer Steere
and not just the numbers, but the way it looks
in more of the analytical numbers that he's just not
hitting the ball as hard as he was last year,
And to me, that's concerning going forward, considering what we
(08:40):
know about his shoulder.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Before we move on to the Bengals here, Joe how
do you how do you summarize the first twenty three
for Lie de la Cruz. We talked a lot about
spring training being more selective, not swinging and missing as much.
Now he's second in Major League Baseball in strikeouts. We've
seen the airs that have become a problem. But yet
he does stuff like make the catch on Sunday and
(09:03):
the home runs and the stuff at the ballpark that
you have a chance to see each and every given night.
How do you summarize Ellie's twenty three game start to
the season.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
So I did a radio hit with a radio station
in Baltimore on Friday, and they asked me the same
question about Ellie de la Cruz, and I told them
that when you go to a game and they're going
to see Ellie de la Cruz, a lot of the
folks in Baltimore who were going to the game, we're
going to see him for the first time. I said,
you're probably going to see this guy do something you've
never seen before on a baseball field. And the guy
(09:35):
goes and hits the ball at the top of the
wall for a home run and then makes like Superman
and takes a diving catch in the infield like he did,
so I feel justified in the spectacular moments that make
Ellie de la Cruz kind of the unicorn here in Cincinnati.
I think we're watching guys with growing paints that we
just have to deal with and you just have to
grow through. And I think we have to understand too
(09:57):
the pressure that's on Ellie day la Cruz, not just
from the people who watched the red and talk about
the Reds. We all expect him this year to be
an All Star, and maybe even maybe it's unfair that
we talk about this guy that he should start creeping
into MVP conversations even at such a young age. But
I have to think how hard it might be for
(10:17):
a guy like him who has internal pressure, not from
internally inside him, but from inside the organization, right, I mean,
the organization has put a lot on this guy to
play shortstop, to hit third, and to have a team.
I don't want to say the team is built around him,
but this is the Elle window, and it's talked about,
and the guy's a human being and he understands the
(10:39):
pressure that's on this team and subsequently on him as
a young player to be one of the aircraft carriers
for this organization, and that's a hard thing for a
young guy who's still trying to figure out his game,
who's still trying to iron out the edges of his game.
So I think you're gonna see moments like this where
he's taking too many pits, where he makes errors in
(11:01):
the field. That's all part of a young guy figuring
it out. I think Ellie just we just have to
understand with him, he's going to go through growing pains
and we just kind of have to wait it out
before he becomes a full fledged MVP candidate that we
think he's going to be at the future.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
As we switch gears to to NFL Draft Week and
Thursday night, what this means obviously for the Cincinnati Bengals,
had an opportunity to get in the locker room yesterday,
talked to some players. We heard from Duke Tobin, heard
from Zach Taylor. Any huge takeaways that you took from
yesterday as it relates to maybe this week and going
forward for the Bengals.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Yeah, here we go, right, this is a big week
for the Bengals. This is and let's not try to
dance around this. This is an absolutely massive week and
a massive draft for the Cincinnati Bengals because of what
happened in free agency. When you hear Duke Tobin talk
yesterday and he talks about a guy who said free
agency went well, said they added a starting level nose tackle,
(12:02):
the linebacker was starting experience, an interior offensive lineman was
starting experience, and that they don't imagine this draft is
going to be full of guys they plug and play
as starters. It kind of feels now a little bit
like I'm watching Moneyball, though, the way the Reds approached
Excuse me, the Bengals approached free agency. Look, I get it,
(12:23):
Jamar t Joe that they make a ton of money. Look,
we can't dance around that too, But it kind of
felt like the Bengals went into free agency and didn't
do as much as we hoped they would do, and
that the draft week would be massive for this team.
So here we are now, just two days away and
(12:43):
curious how the Bengals are going to approach this draft.
I maintained all along the only way this team's going
to rebuild its defense is through the draft. But when
you talk to and listen to Duke Tobin, Zach Taylor
and they even talk inside the locker room. I think
you're looking at an organized who expects a lot of
these young guys who are already on the roster to
(13:03):
be the difference makers, the guys to make the jump.
And I know that might be frustrating the Bengals fans,
but you can name them. It's the Chris Jenkins and
McKinley Jackson's and the Jordan Battles, and the DJ Turners
and the Josh Newtons and Dax Hill coming back from injury.
These are guys Miles Murphy that they're relying on and
are comfortable relying on to make the kind of jump
(13:26):
to take this team from a defense that kept him
out of the playoffs to a defense that can pair
with an offense and win a championship. I'm skeptical, and
that's why this draft feels so massive for me and
for the Cincinnati Bengals because of what I perceived to
be holes on the defense that they can't fill with
guys who are already on the roster. So it's going
(13:48):
to be fascinating. It's an absolutely massive week, a huge
draft for a ready made Super Bowl contending offense that
needs a defense to add some talent and get some
guys who can be difference makers, because I don't think
there's enough right now in that locker room for this
team to win a Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Do you think that correlates to number seventeen being a
defensive player or is there any scenario that you can
see unfolding where they would draft offense, Because you know,
if they were to draft offense with number seventeen, the
pushback would be very loud. But do you see any
scenario that they could address something offensively at number seventeen?
Speaker 4 (14:29):
It would be loud. But let let me ask you this,
and let me ask all the Bengals fans listening to this.
If the Bengals invested on a stud interior offensive lineman
or even an offensive tackle they can move inside to
better protect Joe Burrow. What in Cincinnati sleep comfortably at
night knowing the Bengals are doing everything they can to
(14:49):
protect Joe Burrow. It's see, you have one job, right,
You've got Joe Burrow. Now make sure Joe Burrow can
do his job by being protected. So I think there's
a world that does exist where if the Bengals were
the draft and offensive line, and I think people would
be okay with it. There's a buzz about Colston Lovelin, right,
and you can blame James Rapine for that, right. And
(15:10):
I think it's a great thing to talk about and
a fun thing. And you know, it's have all the
weapons in the world, right and just try to outscore everybody.
That's fun. That's great. That that's not going to win
you as Super Bowl. It's like Kevin Poster and Draft Day.
The piece of paper in my pocket would say draft
defense no matter what, and not just in the first round.
(15:32):
I'm saying at least five of the six picks, if
not four of the six picks, have to be defense.
They have to keep taking swings to get playmakers, to
get difference makers. The guys in the in the room
yesterday talked about the importance of what Al Golden's telling
them that bald disruption is one of the main pillars
(15:53):
of what he wants to do defensively. How many guys
on that team are bald disruptors right now currently in
the lock? Not enough, There's not enough. The Bengals have
to find ways to keep taking swings to add talent
and add difference makers to the defense. Because I don't
think there are enough in the room right now.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
We've seen them change their stance on a lot of
things the last few years. Do you think the amount
of money that they have invested in the Big Three
changes the way that they value the guard position because
they've never historically valued it. Does that change now that
you've spent so much money on the other parts of
the offense.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
It's interesting, right, because you know, you can have all
these great gadgets, but if the car doesn't turn on right,
you can't take the car out of the highway. If
Joe Burrow doesn't have time to pass, he can't use
all these weapons. And you know, with this idea, often
of guard is it a non premium position, But it
feels like a premium position here, Yeah, in Cincinnati, just
(16:52):
because it's never been addressed correctly by the Bengals, and
there's a chance here to tie. To add the final
stone and the final infinity stone to an unstoppable offense
would be an offensive guard that they can step in
and play at an elite level, because then you have
pretty much everything you need for this offense to be
(17:15):
one of, if not the best offense in the NFL.
But at the same time, it's hard to say when
you have just the one hole on offense compared to
just so many holes on defense. But yeah, I see
your point where it's look, we've invested so much money
and all these other parts, why would we not invest
the money in the one last part. We need to
(17:37):
make sure all the other parts can function correctly. And
that's what's fascinating to me about this draft. It's like
the one piece that's missing for them on offense, but
the so many pieces they have to fix on defense.
Speaker 5 (17:49):
I also wanted to read for you a quote from
Duke Tobin and see if maybe you could translate it
for me.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Is that all right? Quote?
Speaker 5 (17:58):
I don't think our team of right now as we
sit a bunch of rookie starters. Uh, does that mean
they're going to like draft projects and high upside guys.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
It's interesting you say that because that's the exact same
quote that's currently sitting in my notes app on my phone.
It's it's worded interestingly right the way the way he
said it. It's worded very Duke Tobin like. But my
takeaway from you is this is what I said earlier,
(18:30):
that that this team is banking on massive leaps from
the so many young players on defense they already have
look at seventeen. If that guy's not stepping in right
now and being a difference maker in year one, that
that's a mess yep. That the Bengals aren't good enough
right now defensively to add a guy for a red
shirt year. So whatever it is, even if he plays
(18:52):
offensive guard, that the Bengals are drafting that guy to
be a starter, so to to his to his quote, yeah,
looking for six starters and not looking for four starters,
but they better be getting one starter at least in
the first round and maybe another guy on Day two
that can step in right away and help this team
in week one of the current season because this window
(19:16):
of Burrow, Chase, and Higgins can't afford red shirt years
of guys getting up to speed and being difference makers
in a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
I feel like it's just the former quarterback in me
that I feel like there's a legitimate argument, as you mentioned,
to secure offensive guard, because this thing doesn't derail if
they miss out on a DTACKLE. It doesn't derail if
they miss out on a d ND. This derails if
number nine can't play and in the back of my mind.
(19:45):
That's why I hold Guard to such a higher spot
than I do the other positions. And I wish it
would have been addressed from a free agency standpoint. But
with that being said, and what you've been able to
gather at this point, do you have do you have
a lean?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Do you have a yield?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Do you want to go on record on Tuesday of
who the Bengals are taking on Thursday?
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Oh yeah, okay, let's do it. Let let's stamp it here,
Let's let's throw it down. Can I go position.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Outstanding?
Speaker 4 (20:19):
I'm gonna go position instead of names, I believe. Okay, fine, fine,
but it's gonna be lame because everybody's saying Walter Nolan.
And the problem is when when you when you read
so many people, when you look at so many mock drafts,
your brain kind of tricks itself into thinking that's the guy.
But I did that last year with the Marius Mims
(20:40):
and it turned out to be a Marius Mims. I
read so many places that a Marius Mims checks every
box for what the Bengals want, and that's where they went.
Walter Nolan, to me, feels like the person to bring it.
The Bengals only have four defensive tackles. Okay, there's only
four on the roster. It's gotta get guys who can
play that position. And Walter Nolan to me because I
(21:02):
was down to Nolan and Harmon. There's been some information
that Harmon might have some medical concerns, and it seems
like I tossed up with every single player of the
week of the draft. So I will say Walter Nolan.
But let me say this. Let me say this. In
round two. I am currently standing on a table literally
(21:23):
in my basement. Xavier watch Safety out of Notre Dame.
How Golden makes it happen. The Bengals fixed defensive tackle.
They fix safety in the first two rounds of the
twenty twenty five NFL Draft.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
So then they win the AFC North right bookt in
the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
It I've wrote all of these things down. It's obviously
a big week. What do you have going on this
week for your your guys draft coverage and everything else?
Speaker 4 (21:55):
So this is really cool on Thursday night and Friday nights.
So a rounds one, two, and three, when the pick
comes in, even if we're not in news, if it
happens at nine five, whatever night, we are cutting into
programming to bring you Zach Taylor and whatever coordinator speaks.
Their press conference is live on Fox nineteen now the
(22:17):
Thursday night and Friday night. We had some pushback in
an internal meeting, like are we really going to cut
into a UFL game on Friday night? Oh yeah, so
you can see Zach Taylor's live reaction the rounds one, two,
and three on Fox nineteen. Now.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
How many UFL teams can you name?
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Zero? And we have them on our air every Friday.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Marting smart because you're.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
You're Isn't Birmingham a team?
Speaker 5 (22:46):
I think so? And then I think the the Memphis
Showboats are being coached by Jim Turner right now? How
about that Ken wizen Hunt resigned and Jim Turner took
over coaching waiting You know this already. I hate Jim Turner.
That's why I just keep tabs on him.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
But we love you. We love you, Joe Daniman. Thank
you for joining us. We appreciate you and look forward
to catching up next week.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
See Joe always, gentlemen. Bye.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
There he is Joe Danneman from Box nineteen. We got
a break talkbacks next ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
A service of SINSI shirts now
Since E three to sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored
in part by Cincy Shirts. Cincy Shirts all since.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
E all day.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Welcome back Hour two since E three sixty ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Thanks to our friends at Cinci Shirts.
Thank you for listening along. Hour two in the second
day of the week means Joe Daneman is standing by
ready to join us from Fox nineteen.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
He does so now, Hi Joe, how are you?
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Tony? No wwe roth spoilers. I've heard it was an
excellent show last night. Haven't watched you know what? I
was convinced to watch by a bunch of people at work.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Oh is this.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Show on HBO Max called The Last of Us?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (00:50):
I am not a zombie person. I've never watched any
zombie shows. People have convinced me to watch this show.
They've told me that approaching Game of Thrones level good.
I'm a bit skeptical right now, but that's what I
watched last night instead of Raw, So as of now
I'm not fully caught up on any re.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
For what it's worth, the Last of Us is the
single greatest video game I've ever played.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Yes, I've heard the same.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Now I've only seen the show up until last night episode,
so it's a good show.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Are you through season one?
Speaker 4 (01:30):
I'm through season one. I'm caught up. I'm there, man,
I'm all the way caught up. And there's a lot
of zombies. I can tell you now. I would spoil
anything else.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I was told that that season two, episode two was
up there as one of the top episodes from series
in the past.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
You know how it goes though, when people build things
up and they tell you how great it is. And
I live with Game of Thrones on this pedestal that
can't be touched, and people told me this approach Game
of Thrones. Now good episode. Yeah sure, but man, let's
let the goat lie fair and the goat right now?
Is goot Game of.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Throne, Sir?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I have to ask.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
We go from the highs and lows often in the
sports world, from twenty four runs with the Cincinnati Reds
on Sunday to zero through seven innings last night, and
a lot of that is not just on the Cincinnati Reds,
but you tip your captain Max Meyer, who was absolutely fantastic,
but in the Grand scheme of things. How do you
(02:31):
view the game to game highs and lows from your
standpoint of covering a team through one hundred and sixty
two and seeing trends and different things that happened, but
understanding there's such a long way to go. How do
you view what the last two games for the Reds
were like from a high and a low?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
All right, let's unpack this here, And I fall back
on one of the great quotes that Dusty Baker used
to always say, and I say this often to people
to get excited about one result from one game, get
down another result from another game. It's momentum in baseball
is only as good as tomorrow's starting pitcher. And you
saw the difference Sunday in Monday in Baltimore, in Miami.
(03:10):
And my take on this team has been this, And
I said this Sunday night when talking with Jeremy Rowle
on our New Cincinnati Sports show on Fox nineteen about
that plug, I said this, I think this team is
too outcome dependent based on who they face on the mound,
that when they face a bad picture, they absolutely hammer
(03:33):
bad pitchers. When they faced competitive to very good pictures,
you're seeing a team that right now isn't hitting well
enough in those situations. And I can run down the line.
Here you go Baltimore. Right Friday night, they threw a
tomato can. He was bad. Saturday they threw a rookie,
he was bad. Sunday they threw a guy that was
nearly my age. He was terrible. And so the Reds
(03:55):
hammered these guys and they won this series in Baltimore.
But you go back and look at the pitchers the
Reds have faced this year that have a real baseball card,
right and that real success in the major leagues. And
you just name them the Logan Webbs, the Nathan Valdi's,
the Jack Lyders, the Bryce Millers, and now Max Meyer,
who looks like a breakout guy. And I know I'm
naming very good pitchers, but each of those pitchers seem
(04:18):
to baffle the Reds in their own way. And so
right now, when you play what twenty three games so
far in one hundred and fifty two game season, I
don't know what kind of a sample size you need
to say right now, but right now, it's just it
looks like a Red team that when they face elite
pitching can sometimes be overwhelmed, and when they face bad pitchers,
(04:39):
they look like a playoff team. And I think that's
going to be how it plays out for the rest
of the season. And I'll make this last point too
on the Reds offense that if you would have said
twenty three games, end of the season, look at the
stat lines of Austin Hayes, Gavin Lux, and Jose Travino,
and if you look at those stat lines, he would say,
oh my gosh, this is the first place team considering
(05:00):
everything else that's around him. At what point does that
not become as sustainable as it currently is with these
guys hitting at the level they are right now. So
when those guys eventually drop off a little, and maybe
Austin Hayes doesn't, maybe Austin Hayes hits like a cleanup hitter,
and maybe Gavin Lux takes a new role in Cincinnati
and goes out and hits two ninety and there's a
(05:20):
really good gap to gap guy for this team. And
Jose Travino gives the Reds an option behind Tyler Stevenson.
But if they don't, if they do revert back to
what we think they might be, then you're looking at
an offense that might be in some trouble in the
later part of the season unless unless Matt McClain and
Ellie and TJ. Freed can carry this offense and Spencer
(05:42):
Steer two, which I'm sure we'll talk about.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
You mentioned you know what Hayes and Lux and Travino
have done. You could also throw in what the starting
pitching had been and you say, yes, that's a surefire
first place team in the NL Central. They've wasted a
lot of that. Let me I'll ask you because it
seems to be that Okay, ja Mercandle bad place, not
a good hitter. He's been out of the lineup two
(06:04):
days in a row. There seems to be more indictment
there than Okay, Spencer Steeer is hitting one twenty five,
Matt McClain is hitting two twelve.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
How long do you allow.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
It to go before you become more concerned with players
that this organization is counting on to be great. How
long do you give it before it becomes worrisome and
concerning the way you're seeing them approach at bats.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Yeah, I think each player is a case by case basis.
My concern level for Matt McClean is zero. I think
he's the best hitter on the team, just just a
naturally talented hitter, and I think that will will prove
itself as the season goes on. I'm not worried about
Matt McClain. If he's healthy, he's going to hit. My
(06:50):
concern level for him is zero. Jamer Candelario is alarming,
and it's well documented. He starts to heat up as
this season starts to as the season starts to change
into May and June. So we'll see if that changes.
But I do think it's very interesting now that he
hasn't played two consecutive days, as as Terry Francona tries
(07:12):
to kick start this team. But yeah, my level of
concern on Jamer candela Ario was very high, especially considering
the money they're paying him. Spencer steered and we've talked
about him on this show. You know, there's a difference
between worry and concern, and I'm concerned. You know, we
talked about that he hitting the bad luck last year,
that he was hitting the ball hard, it was just
(07:33):
going right at people when he's still finished with decent
power numbers. Here we are twenty three games into this
and we understand what he's coming back from, what he's
dealing with, and he's still hitting so so low in
the low one hundreds, and there's no power and there's
no driving in of runs. My concern level for Spencer
Steer is high. He's a very talented hitter. We know
(07:56):
that when he's right, he's one of the best hitters
on this team, one of the best run producers in
the National League Central. But after twenty three games, how
can you look at him and see the way he's
played and not be concerned that he isn't right, that
the shoulder is somehow affecting him and the way he's
hitting at the plate. So no concern for me. With McClain,
(08:17):
I think you're seeing maybe a bit of phasing out
of jam Or Candelaria, which is interesting considering how much
he's making. But I am very concerned about Spencer Steere
and not just the numbers, but the way it looks
in more of the analytical numbers that he's just not
hitting the ball as hard as he was last year,
And to me, that's concerning going forward, considering what we
(08:40):
know about his shoulder.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Before we move on to the Bengals here, Joe how
do you how do you summarize the first twenty three
for Lie de la Cruz. We talked a lot about
spring training being more selective, not swinging and missing as much.
Now he's second in Major League Baseball in strikeouts. We've
seen the airs that have become a problem. But yet
he does stuff like make the catch on Sunday and
(09:03):
the home runs and the stuff at the ballpark that
you have a chance to see each and every given night.
How do you summarize Ellie's twenty three game start to
the season.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
So I did a radio hit with a radio station
in Baltimore on Friday, and they asked me the same
question about Ellie de la Cruz, and I told them
that when you go to a game and they're going
to see Ellie de la Cruz, a lot of the
folks in Baltimore who were going to the game, we're
going to see him for the first time. I said,
you're probably going to see this guy do something you've
never seen before on a baseball field. And the guy
(09:35):
goes and hits the ball at the top of the
wall for a home run and then makes like Superman
and takes a diving catch in the infield like he did,
so I feel justified in the spectacular moments that make
Ellie de la Cruz kind of the unicorn here in Cincinnati.
I think we're watching guys with growing paints that we
just have to deal with and you just have to
grow through. And I think we have to understand too
(09:57):
the pressure that's on Ellie day la Cruz, not just
from the people who watched the red and talk about
the Reds. We all expect him this year to be
an All Star, and maybe even maybe it's unfair that
we talk about this guy that he should start creeping
into MVP conversations even at such a young age. But
I have to think how hard it might be for
(10:17):
a guy like him who has internal pressure, not from
internally inside him, but from inside the organization, right, I mean,
the organization has put a lot on this guy to
play shortstop, to hit third, and to have a team.
I don't want to say the team is built around him,
but this is the Elle window, and it's talked about,
and the guy's a human being and he understands the
(10:39):
pressure that's on this team and subsequently on him as
a young player to be one of the aircraft carriers
for this organization, and that's a hard thing for a
young guy who's still trying to figure out his game,
who's still trying to iron out the edges of his game.
So I think you're gonna see moments like this where
he's taking too many pits, where he makes errors in
(11:01):
the field. That's all part of a young guy figuring
it out. I think Ellie just we just have to
understand with him, he's going to go through growing pains
and we just kind of have to wait it out
before he becomes a full fledged MVP candidate that we
think he's going to be at the future.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
As we switch gears to to NFL Draft Week and
Thursday night, what this means obviously for the Cincinnati Bengals,
had an opportunity to get in the locker room yesterday,
talked to some players. We heard from Duke Tobin, heard
from Zach Taylor. Any huge takeaways that you took from
yesterday as it relates to maybe this week and going
forward for the Bengals.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Yeah, here we go, right, this is a big week
for the Bengals. This is and let's not try to
dance around this. This is an absolutely massive week and
a massive draft for the Cincinnati Bengals because of what
happened in free agency. When you hear Duke Tobin talk
yesterday and he talks about a guy who said free
agency went well, said they added a starting level nose tackle,
(12:02):
the linebacker was starting experience, an interior offensive lineman was
starting experience, and that they don't imagine this draft is
going to be full of guys they plug and play
as starters. It kind of feels now a little bit
like I'm watching Moneyball, though, the way the Reds approached
Excuse me, the Bengals approached free agency. Look, I get it,
(12:23):
Jamar t Joe that they make a ton of money. Look,
we can't dance around that too, But it kind of
felt like the Bengals went into free agency and didn't
do as much as we hoped they would do, and
that the draft week would be massive for this team.
So here we are now, just two days away and
(12:43):
curious how the Bengals are going to approach this draft.
I maintained all along the only way this team's going
to rebuild its defense is through the draft. But when
you talk to and listen to Duke Tobin, Zach Taylor
and they even talk inside the locker room. I think
you're looking at an organized who expects a lot of
these young guys who are already on the roster to
(13:03):
be the difference makers, the guys to make the jump.
And I know that might be frustrating the Bengals fans,
but you can name them. It's the Chris Jenkins and
McKinley Jackson's and the Jordan Battles, and the DJ Turners
and the Josh Newtons and Dax Hill coming back from injury.
These are guys Miles Murphy that they're relying on and
are comfortable relying on to make the kind of jump
(13:26):
to take this team from a defense that kept him
out of the playoffs to a defense that can pair
with an offense and win a championship. I'm skeptical, and
that's why this draft feels so massive for me and
for the Cincinnati Bengals because of what I perceived to
be holes on the defense that they can't fill with
guys who are already on the roster. So it's going
(13:48):
to be fascinating. It's an absolutely massive week, a huge
draft for a ready made Super Bowl contending offense that
needs a defense to add some talent and get some
guys who can be difference makers, because I don't think
there's enough right now in that locker room for this
team to win a Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Do you think that correlates to number seventeen being a
defensive player or is there any scenario that you can
see unfolding where they would draft offense, Because you know,
if they were to draft offense with number seventeen, the
pushback would be very loud. But do you see any
scenario that they could address something offensively at number seventeen?
Speaker 4 (14:29):
It would be loud. But let let me ask you this,
and let me ask all the Bengals fans listening to this.
If the Bengals invested on a stud interior offensive lineman
or even an offensive tackle they can move inside to
better protect Joe Burrow. What in Cincinnati sleep comfortably at
night knowing the Bengals are doing everything they can to
(14:49):
protect Joe Burrow. It's see, you have one job, right,
You've got Joe Burrow. Now make sure Joe Burrow can
do his job by being protected. So I think there's
a world that does exist where if the Bengals were
the draft and offensive line, and I think people would
be okay with it. There's a buzz about Colston Lovelin, right,
and you can blame James Rapine for that, right. And
(15:10):
I think it's a great thing to talk about and
a fun thing. And you know, it's have all the
weapons in the world, right and just try to outscore everybody.
That's fun. That's great. That that's not going to win
you as Super Bowl. It's like Kevin Poster and Draft Day.
The piece of paper in my pocket would say draft
defense no matter what, and not just in the first round.
(15:32):
I'm saying at least five of the six picks, if
not four of the six picks, have to be defense.
They have to keep taking swings to get playmakers, to
get difference makers. The guys in the in the room
yesterday talked about the importance of what Al Golden's telling
them that bald disruption is one of the main pillars
(15:53):
of what he wants to do defensively. How many guys
on that team are bald disruptors right now currently in
the lock? Not enough, There's not enough. The Bengals have
to find ways to keep taking swings to add talent
and add difference makers to the defense. Because I don't
think there are enough in the room right now.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
We've seen them change their stance on a lot of
things the last few years. Do you think the amount
of money that they have invested in the Big Three
changes the way that they value the guard position because
they've never historically valued it. Does that change now that
you've spent so much money on the other parts of
the offense.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
It's interesting, right, because you know, you can have all
these great gadgets, but if the car doesn't turn on right,
you can't take the car out of the highway. If
Joe Burrow doesn't have time to pass, he can't use
all these weapons. And you know, with this idea, often
of guard is it a non premium position, But it
feels like a premium position here, Yeah, in Cincinnati, just
(16:52):
because it's never been addressed correctly by the Bengals, and
there's a chance here to tie. To add the final
stone and the final infinity stone to an unstoppable offense
would be an offensive guard that they can step in
and play at an elite level, because then you have
pretty much everything you need for this offense to be
(17:15):
one of, if not the best offense in the NFL.
But at the same time, it's hard to say when
you have just the one hole on offense compared to
just so many holes on defense. But yeah, I see
your point where it's look, we've invested so much money
and all these other parts, why would we not invest
the money in the one last part. We need to
(17:37):
make sure all the other parts can function correctly. And
that's what's fascinating to me about this draft. It's like
the one piece that's missing for them on offense, but
the so many pieces they have to fix on defense.
Speaker 5 (17:49):
I also wanted to read for you a quote from
Duke Tobin and see if maybe you could translate it
for me.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Is that all right? Quote?
Speaker 5 (17:58):
I don't think our team of right now as we
sit a bunch of rookie starters. Uh, does that mean
they're going to like draft projects and high upside guys.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
It's interesting you say that because that's the exact same
quote that's currently sitting in my notes app on my phone.
It's it's worded interestingly right the way the way he
said it. It's worded very Duke Tobin like. But my
takeaway from you is this is what I said earlier,
(18:30):
that that this team is banking on massive leaps from
the so many young players on defense they already have
look at seventeen. If that guy's not stepping in right
now and being a difference maker in year one, that
that's a mess yep. That the Bengals aren't good enough
right now defensively to add a guy for a red
shirt year. So whatever it is, even if he plays
(18:52):
offensive guard, that the Bengals are drafting that guy to
be a starter, so to to his to his quote, yeah,
looking for six starters and not looking for four starters,
but they better be getting one starter at least in
the first round and maybe another guy on Day two
that can step in right away and help this team
in week one of the current season because this window
(19:16):
of Burrow, Chase, and Higgins can't afford red shirt years
of guys getting up to speed and being difference makers
in a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
I feel like it's just the former quarterback in me
that I feel like there's a legitimate argument, as you mentioned,
to secure offensive guard, because this thing doesn't derail if
they miss out on a DTACKLE. It doesn't derail if
they miss out on a d ND. This derails if
number nine can't play and in the back of my mind.
(19:45):
That's why I hold Guard to such a higher spot
than I do the other positions. And I wish it
would have been addressed from a free agency standpoint. But
with that being said, and what you've been able to
gather at this point, do you have do you have
a lean?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Do you have a yield?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Do you want to go on record on Tuesday of
who the Bengals are taking on Thursday?
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Oh yeah, okay, let's do it. Let let's stamp it here,
Let's let's throw it down. Can I go position.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Outstanding?
Speaker 4 (20:19):
I'm gonna go position instead of names, I believe. Okay, fine, fine,
but it's gonna be lame because everybody's saying Walter Nolan.
And the problem is when when you when you read
so many people, when you look at so many mock drafts,
your brain kind of tricks itself into thinking that's the guy.
But I did that last year with the Marius Mims
(20:40):
and it turned out to be a Marius Mims. I
read so many places that a Marius Mims checks every
box for what the Bengals want, and that's where they went.
Walter Nolan, to me, feels like the person to bring it.
The Bengals only have four defensive tackles. Okay, there's only
four on the roster. It's gotta get guys who can
play that position. And Walter Nolan to me because I
(21:02):
was down to Nolan and Harmon. There's been some information
that Harmon might have some medical concerns, and it seems
like I tossed up with every single player of the
week of the draft. So I will say Walter Nolan.
But let me say this. Let me say this. In
round two. I am currently standing on a table literally
(21:23):
in my basement. Xavier watch Safety out of Notre Dame.
How Golden makes it happen. The Bengals fixed defensive tackle.
They fix safety in the first two rounds of the
twenty twenty five NFL Draft.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
So then they win the AFC North right bookt in
the Super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
It I've wrote all of these things down. It's obviously
a big week. What do you have going on this
week for your your guys draft coverage and everything else?
Speaker 4 (21:55):
So this is really cool on Thursday night and Friday nights.
So a rounds one, two, and three, when the pick
comes in, even if we're not in news, if it
happens at nine five, whatever night, we are cutting into
programming to bring you Zach Taylor and whatever coordinator speaks.
Their press conference is live on Fox nineteen now the
(22:17):
Thursday night and Friday night. We had some pushback in
an internal meeting, like are we really going to cut
into a UFL game on Friday night? Oh yeah, so
you can see Zach Taylor's live reaction the rounds one, two,
and three on Fox nineteen. Now.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
How many UFL teams can you name?
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Zero? And we have them on our air every Friday.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Marting smart because you're.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
You're Isn't Birmingham a team?
Speaker 5 (22:46):
I think so? And then I think the the Memphis
Showboats are being coached by Jim Turner right now? How
about that Ken wizen Hunt resigned and Jim Turner took
over coaching waiting You know this already. I hate Jim Turner.
That's why I just keep tabs on him.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
But we love you. We love you, Joe Daniman. Thank
you for joining us. We appreciate you and look forward
to catching up next week.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
See Joe always, gentlemen. Bye.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
There he is Joe Danneman from Box nineteen. We got
a break talkbacks next ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
A service of SINSI shirts now
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