Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
About Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in part by Cinci Shirts.
Cinci Shirts, All Cinci all Day. This is ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome back Cincy three to sixty thanks to Cinci Shirts.
Hour two on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Thanks
for listening along. You know what it is. It's time
to get with our guy, Charlie Goldsmith. Let's talk Cincinnati Bengals. Charlie,
what's going on? How are you hey?
Speaker 3 (00:32):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Charlie? Walk me through last night as pick seventeen is
getting ready to happen. I'm following along with what you're
talking about with your social media, your tweets, it felt
like the draft was falling pretty well for the Cincinnati Bengals.
Let's start with the actual pick at seventeen. Do you
view that the Bengals would have liked to move back
(00:55):
or were they wanted to get to the podium Misha
mar Stewart in your opinion, right?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
They see something in Shamar Stewart. What what I see
the vision as is the Bengals putting an immense amount
of value in number one pass Rusher and the idea
and the upside of that as a potential Trey Hendrickson replacement.
Like we've seen, we all understand how much a true
number one pass rusher can make up for a million
things going on in a defense. And outside of Abdul Carter,
(01:24):
Shamar Stewart was the only guy in this class who
had that. Plus he has the tools to set the
edge and do some real damage when teams run the ball.
Giving given Shamar Stewart some some short turbop side, but
you know, I had several guys high on my board.
You saw some some very smart front offices. Take those
guys and Derek Carmen and Malachi starts in Jahad Campbell.
(01:47):
What Stewart's short term impact, specifically from a production standpoint
is obviously going to be a huge question. I was
definitely surprised by the pick. It is a kind of
move you make if you weren't around for the last
three years and the team failed to develop defensive players
they drafted. Now, of course they've got the confidence that
they're going to be able to do that, and now
Al Golden, here you go. It's time to do everything
(02:08):
that they hired you to do.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
How do you make the case when you talk about
traits over production, because that is what Jamar Stewart is.
The production numbers weren't there. The traits are off the charts.
The raw athletics score everything you want a prospect to
look like and test like is there. The production is not.
How do you weigh those two?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Aw Golden brought this up to like, to me, traits
verse production isn't necessarily even the debate that we saw
because there weren't al Golden said this, There weren't guys,
all right, the guys who had a lot of stats
as a Roku and Mike Green. But we understand pretty
well that, especially last night, kind of what they confirmed
and reinforced was that size off the edge was something
that they felt like was very much a must, which
(02:54):
our Steward brings to the table. So like Malik Williams
or excuse me, mckel Williams had what five stats. It's
not like the guys Jalen Walker didn't have a ton
of sacks. It's not like it was a bunch of
guys with bulot of stacks. Derek Carmon was another guy
pressures more than sex. It was number one edge rush
potential theory idea concepts which take all that was a
(03:15):
grain assault for what you will. It was that versus
defensive tackle with medical conversations, you know, in terms of
injuries with Derk Carmen linebacker with medical conversations in terms
of injuries in Campbell and safety in Malachi starts with
some positional value conversation there. So it's not like they
picked him over a guy that looked like a slightly
(03:37):
less athletic version of Schamar Shwart who happened to have
more sacks, because that guy didn't exist in this draft.
They took Stewart over guys who they viewed as lesser
upside guys because they don't play as premium positions.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
We'll never find out, but do you feel like he
was at the top of their board? Because I wonder
a guy like Tyler Booker, who the Cowboys took if
he was available, would he have been on the list?
Walter Nolan, guys like that. Do you think Shamar Stewart
was the first option or do you think they would
have looked at a Tyler Booker or maybe even a
Walter Nolan or somebody else.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Here's where I keep coming back to. This is my
biggest Honestly, this is the most shocking part to me
about all this. The Bengals put so much value in
the person in face to face interaction in meetings. If
I had a nickel for every time they told us
about a guy who blew us away in the thirty visitor,
they went to the coach. The coach went to the
(04:32):
pro day to get this feedback and this perspective, and
all of these different opportunities that you have to get
real important face to face time, specifically with prospects who
are absolutely the cleanest, like Jamar Stewart isn't you know
from a production standpoint, I'd like to learn more just
kind of his perspective on that, And the fact that
one they only got eighteen minutes with him as combined
(04:54):
and didn't do anything to circle back with him, and
to the fact that it's not right. Sure, you know,
Walton Owen sounds great, but it's not like all the
guys who made the most sense on paper for the
Bengals went before Schmart Stewart. It's not like there was
some run on exactly what the Bengals needed that put
(05:14):
them in like a hit the panic button type of situation.
It's I don't get the sense they were shocked that
all of the top guys on a theoretical board were
off the table, and they again had to make a
panic move. So, if Stuart was always going to be
a guy high on your board, why didn't you do it?
You literally always do and get more FaceTime with him
(05:35):
before the draft?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, that to me was a question mark. And then
I look at the fallout afterwards. Pittsburgh lands Harmon, Malachi
Starks goes to Baltimore, the Philadelphia Eagles get Jahad Campbell.
Knowing now how the rest of the first round shaped
up on your board, how you viewed the draft? Did
you have any players that went after seventeen rated as
(05:56):
a better fit for the Bengals?
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Yeah, I Harmon, I'd start to I'd Campbell all rank
more highly. And now again I guess the Bengals perspective.
Obviously they have an opinion and the decision that they
stuck to having, you know, spend more time, you know,
a million more time on these guys than me when
you look at the depth and the access they have here.
Again with Harmon, the medical problems part of the conversation,
(06:20):
same with Campbell. But all right, let's say, like even
I they're they're dinged up and they miss four games,
they missed six games. Well, they're still going to be
every or close to every snap of defensive tackle, every
snap linebacker starters when they're ready, compared to Stewart, who
doesn't even have a window to be more than a
forty fifty percent snap guy in twenty twenty five. So
(06:43):
even with the injury conversation, you would have opportunities to
get guys who would impact you more in twenty twenty five.
And that cycles me back to my biggest overarching, number
one thing that I keep going back to. I think
the Bengals just think this rosters really really good attys,
and they're drafting like it's twenty twenty two, and that's
(07:05):
the type of team they have, and they have more
confidence in orin Bert's and Lucas Patrick. And we'll see
maybe maybe one of those guys not as much we'll
see the night based on a reach that they might
make it one of those positions. But I really get
the sense that they actually do feel really confident about
a lot of the players that we have more question
marks around. And that's why they took this bet on
(07:27):
Schamar because they didn't feel like we need this now,
and that's I think where you're seeing the disagreement between
the fan base and the team because the fan base,
you know, and myself I negative, I more negatively do
some of those players they haven't the roster currently. I
think the Pengles just really like that they have.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
How do you explain that difference, Like what could we
potentially be missing that they see that we don't about
how they view the players on the roster.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
You know, Oran Burkes started the Super Bowl right. You
can buck yourself into all these players if you wanted to.
Gino Stone really was coming on at the end of
last season, Lucas Patrick has done a lot of good
things in Green Bay or earlier in his career, and
Zack's close with Matt Lafluran, Like, you can tell yourself
a story about a lot of these players. I think
(08:19):
a big one, actually a real significant one, because I
think they think BJ Hill's gonna be a much better
pass rusher this season, and that's that's not where I'm
at with him, and I think bj still gets starter.
But again, I think there are a lot of those
differences that led to them not picking a guy who
was at one of their what I viewed, I think
we all viewed as massive positions of meat. I think
(08:41):
they might not view as many of those as directed
us do.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Going into rounds two and three tonight, Who do you
think fits? Who do you think could fall? How do
you expect the Bengals to approach the second and third
rounds tonight?
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Well, that's the beauty of it, Austin. When you don't
draft one of your biggest positions of need in round one,
you've got plenty of flexibility to drap biggest positions of
need in round two. So you know, obviously I took
defensive end off the board, but I'm not taking any
other position off the board. At defensive end what their
fifth biggest need in my evaluation coming into this draft.
So you're still kind of in it best player available
(09:18):
at position of need because you haven't failed really any
of your positions in need yet. And as tier that
separates itself to me is Safty nickimin worry linebacker who
who I think even morey will be off the board.
But then linebacker Curson Schwessinger, safety Davir Walks, guard Kate Ratledge,
guard Jonah seven a I think any of those guys
will be a run pretty quickly to the podium. Pick
(09:39):
after those guys, I'm training back and I'm not even
asking for much. If i can pick up an extra
fourth or an extra fifth, I'm heavily considering that. When
you look at what I see to be a significant
drop off after those guys tonight and after those guys,
really you are just reaching for whatever need you feel
like is the biggest. If you're you're past those five guys,
(10:00):
can you feel that, why that is your biggest need?
To just go get Danny stuff in or do something
like that, because there is a pretty significant drop off
half the position the need for the Bengals in my information,
after those five guys.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Charlie dan Horde yesterday said that the biggest hole in
his opinion on the roster is guard. If you miss
on guard tonight, do you run the risk of a
guard tomorrow to slot in or do you have to
revisit someone on the free agent market to identify as
someone that can come in and upgrade that position.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Well, first, if they don't get ratleig A in my information,
like we heard Dak say, let's get through the draft
and then we'll readjust for agency. I'm calling Brandon Shurf
in between the second and third rounds if I don't
land Ay Ratleig or join a savn AA. I feel
very confident that they will land a guard tonight. And
it's not just the guard. It's a guy who's listed
as a center in a lot of places in Jared Wilson.
(10:54):
It's two guys listed at tackle in a lot of
places in Ami Trappello and Charles Grant, who who there
are some different areas where they have crossover to projectable
scheme fits out of position change for each of them.
So I don't get something. But again, you know, you
went into the shoup saying the Bengals need to get
(11:15):
a guard round two, but there are still don't you know?
Because of what they haven't done as safety at linebacker
and a guard as well. Doesn't make it as much
of a guarantee that it felt like because they didn't
address one of those three positions in the first round.
So yes, guard guarded their biggest need, but they've got
so much else to do as well that that to me,
(11:35):
it's not as much of a lock as it was
that they take a garden round two.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Lastly, anything tonight that would shock you that that this
team does or does not do that that you would
walk away and and have serious questions about.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Well, we're probably gonna be entering is the McKinley Jackson
zone is what I call it. And now you know,
I don't know if you fall if you follow my work,
you know I do like what McKinley Jackson did last season.
But when the Bengals drafted him, it was, man, that's
a reach for a guy that analysts projected to go
in the six round one. And then you sew the
Bengals response to that being well, you know, there aren't
(12:09):
many guys with that body type available in this draft
and and you know, so that made it more of
a premium finding, and they talked themselves into Jackson being
the third roup picking again he had a nice risky season.
It was a reach in a desperate position of need.
Like what I'm kind of worried about happening tonight, whichuse
the Bengals didn't fill a need yesterday for the short term,
even though Stewart will play, But they didn't fill one
(12:31):
of the biggest needs is that they'll enter the McKinley
Jackson zone. Like I said, once you get past kind
of that top five I have available today, I might
just take the guy who I think is the position
you're least set up at. And you know, if you
get to around three and you're still in that mindset
and you're even more in that mindset, that could lead
to the Bengals selecting a player that we even talked
(12:53):
about as a day too often a significant reach again,
a Mckiinley Jackson zone type move. That's kind of what
I'm worried about tonight for the But on the bright side,
there are some strong options like I mentioned in the
second round, but we'll see again Shimore start to be
a number one pass rusher in the NFL. But selectium
certainly has an impact on your draft strategy going forward
(13:14):
for a team that only has six picks.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Charlie, you mentioned following along with all your work. What's
the easiest way for listeners to follow along with everything
you got coverage wise for the Cincinnati Bengals and everything
you're doing with the Cincinnati Reds.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Easiest way, Charlie chuckword dot substack dot com breaking it
all down.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Charlie, you're the best man I hope you enjoy the
UH the night tonight, enjoyed the draft weekend, and look
forward to talking again soon.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Thanks Charlie, You two guys appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
There he is, Charlie Goldsmith, crushing it as always as
it pertains to the Cincinnati Bengals. Your talkbacks next, with
a chance to win a Sinci Shirts gift. Called on
the line Cincy three to sixty thanks to Sinci Shirts
on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Now your chance