June 6, 2025 • 21 mins
Tony and Austin talk Reds and Bengals with Charlie Goldsmith on ESPN 1530!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Cinci Shirts Cincy three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati,
sponsored in part by Cinci Shirts. Cincy Shirts All Cincy.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
All Day.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Welcome to our number two of Cincy three sixty. Thanks
to Cincy Shirts, we got two Cinci Shirts gift cards
to give away in this hour, and I can tell
you again about the Cinci Shirts Skyline Chili beach Towel.
It looks exactly like a hot sauce packet in the
shape of a beach towel. Cinci Shirts dot Com limited
supply available. Go pick one up for yourself. As we
(00:40):
do on Friday afternoons, on this program, we get a
chance to talk to our good friend Charlie Goldsmith. That
is no different today, he joins us. Right now, what's up, Charlie, Tony,
how are you doing, Charlie? I'm great. How if we
look at today, on this date in twenty twenty three,
Lie de la Cruz made his reds Day. It has
(01:01):
been filled with so many unbelievable moments. How do you
categorize Ellie de la Cruz's tenure with the Cincinnati Reads
up to this point?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
He went from underrated, like he tried to describe how
there was this six foot five switch in and shortstop
prospect with power you've never seen before too, not that
he was ever overrated, but just the expectations thrust upon
him to immediately be playing at an MVP caliber level
and how that impacted him in twenty twenty three two,
(01:32):
I will say underrated again. Like Ellie was eighth in
MVP voting last year, he'd probably be in like the
ten to fifteen range this season. I think he just
needs more help around him. Are there areas where he
could be more dynamic this season where he could be
more consistent this season? Yes? But who is I mean
hole farmer Freddie Galavis Dekosar had some great years. Edgar
(01:56):
Atrio is the Red shortstop once Edgar Carreras.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Like that these Freddy Galvius.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
And the Red to have Ellie de Lacruz. Now, I'm
not worried at all about him maybe not reaching his
total peak this season. He just needs some more help
around him.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
When it comes to this season specifically, are there any
concerns about his defense? Because a couple of different metrics
would suggest whether it's outs above average or defensive run
save that he's just struggling. Is there anything we can
point to about maybe why that is or if that's
a concern moving forward.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
First, and then we'll kind of share a little known
fact here after this about the defense. It's really just
the consistency, Like he really does make all the plays
in practice. He really does implement the technique and all
that stuff. It's just when the lights are on and
you're not one hundred percent sure if the ball is
getting hit to you, he makes mistakes. That's a part
of it. There are probably five shortstops in baseball who
(02:55):
you feel fantastic about their defense. I still do think
Ellie makes up for the overwhelming majority of the plays.
I'm still seeing Elia probably the Red second best defender
behind Matt McClain, you know, even ahead of TJ. Friedel
because of the dynamic nature. He kind of is a
scheme changer too, with how he impacts relay throws and
(03:16):
all that little known facts. You know, where the cameras
are kind of pass the first base dugout, Yes, you
know what I'm talking about. It's a throw hit that
like netting that used to be out of play, awarded
an extra base that rule actually changed this year. So
now a throw specifically from shortstop is what that angle is,
(03:39):
goes over the first baseman's head and hits that netting
over by first based step, all still in play, so
that that change actually does help Ellie. It's kind of
not relevant to your question, but I just haven't heard
that discuss that has led to fewer extra bases allowed
on ell on Ellie de Lacruz high throws because of
(03:59):
that rule changing.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
What's the temperature right now of this team, Charlie, because
they've obviously had a little bit of a disappointing stretch.
They're they're thirty and thirty three. They're not going to
have Elie de la Cruz for this series against Arizona
when things go bad like they did against the Milwaukee Brewers.
What's the feel of this locker room right now when
you think about this clubhouse.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, some weeks way on you more than others. Some
weeks you look back, Oh, we're just hurt, We're just this,
We're just that. I think this past week, even though
Hunter Green and Austin he's hurt, this was one of
those weeks where the Reds really recognized the missed opportunity.
And what I keep saying about kind of the series
recently against the Cubs, both of them and then the
Bruis as well, was that didn't play that bad. There
weren't a ton of mischances. Maybe you know, two or
(04:44):
three total plays you'd want to have back, but they
weren't running downs consistently, they weren't facing all these great pitchers.
They played fine. And for kind of your average level
to be so far behind the two team or two
of the teams you're chasing in the division is a
cause concerned and it's a sign that the Reds have
to make significant les, you know, level up multiple levels
(05:08):
to kind of find those things they're chasing. But also
you saw like the chances the Reds are selling are
sellers at the trade deadline. Those just continue to increase
when you have games that just aren't good enough like
the Reds have had.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Obviously, the Hunter Green news is devastating for this team,
as it felt like he was getting back to form.
I know they're gonna they're they're viewing the MRI mentioned
the back pain starting the Terry Francona as well. How
concerning is it from a Hunter Green standpoint? When you
talk about re injuring that growing and what that looks
like going forward.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
My understanding even is that it wasn't like a re
injury or a restrain. It was nothing new that was
shown up on the MRI. But the fact that Hunter
is still dealing with symptoms from that injury, that he
did rehab for three weeks, and that he did do
a lot to put behind him. The fact that they
weren't able to kind of get all of that put
behind them call on a cause for concern. But I mean,
(06:01):
they're gonna have to make sure they do this right,
and that's what tire Francona keeps saying. So is that
a different approach, is that having Hunter do an even
more in depth set of rehab and strength training and
stuff like that, that might take a little longer. That's
a question I'm going to try to get answered this
weekend because they probably, excuse me, they probably put that
plan together kind of over the last two days, So
(06:24):
I'll be interested to learn more about that. But I
do not want to make sure they handle this, and
so that means that means Wade Miley in the rotation.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Well, previously they went to Chase Petty. Now they go
to Wade Miley. Neither have been wonderful. Why Miley over Petty?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
First of all, when earlier Wade wasn't ready? Wade wasn't
ready basically until this past week coming back from Tommy John,
Why Wade Miley over Chase Petty? I think it's a
pretty simple answer, right. We saw the last time Petty
was up, they had him available and avoided pitching him. Well,
that's a sign that they not to say that he
wasn't ready, but he showed he's got a lot more
(07:03):
that he has to work on. Petty's just twenty one.
Petty would be or Petty was I think the youngest
guy to make a start in the big leagues this year,
and he didn't even have a ton of minor league
experience under his belt over the course of his minor
league career. So I think you saw all that based
on where he was, based on what he was comfortable throwing,
what he wasn't comfortable throwing. We'll probably see Petty this summer,
(07:27):
just because that's how these things work. You know. Aaron
Wilkerson is kind of a journeyman in Triple A who's
kind of the other option as well. But Miley, I
know he looked bad on Wednesday. Now it was his
first out and coming back from Tommy John. But my
understanding is around the league there was interest from teams
who saw him as a starting pitcher. So it's not
like the Reds were the only team that's like Wade,
(07:47):
Miley is still a starting pitcher right now. He knows
how to compete, he knows how to more important to
eat some innings. And I don't know that he's gonna wow.
He's not gonna go wow anybody. But in terms of
what a guy who's essentially your ninth start is behind
the five, behind Brendan Williamson and Red Louder and Kurfin
Spires and a couple other guys as well. To have way,
(08:09):
Miley is your ninth guy. Well, that's just where there
you're at, right Charlie.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I know it's not his time for the Reds yet,
but the early returns on how good Chase Burns has looked,
give us a little of your thought on the progression
that he's making and where he ultimately ends this season
exceeding everyone's expectations.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
When you look at the commands, the aggressiveness, the ability
to just go out and compete, like pin your ears
back into defensive end term, but I think it applies
to your Chase Burns just notes how to pin his
years back and go after guys, and that really shows
up and kind of the approach you steve when you
watch him pitch, He's checked every box. They've been wowed
just by how the stuff looks. Now he's still pitching
(08:52):
once every six days, not once every five days. He's
still pitched only more than five innings once, so there's
work to do. Part of it is like the experience
of being a professional pitcher. It's so much different than
the experience of being a college pitcher. Even from a
schedule standpoint, you kind of the guy to understand what
his schedule looks like unless your Paul schemes. Now they
(09:13):
are keeping an eye on Burns is in case they
need him at some point this season, and hate me.
That leads the possibility and the opportunity open that Chase
Bern's could be in the Big League this season for sure. Uh.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
The conversation this week has come up about Austin wins
and the fact that this team has carried a third
catcher for now so long how do you view that
roster spot for the Cincinnati Reds. Is it going to
remain Austin Wins. Is there someone else that you have
your eye on, Maybe it's someone coming back from injury.
How do you view the end of this roster right now?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
It's funny you started this asking me or reminding me
that today was Eli's debut, when Ellie was going to
get called up. The plan was that he was going
to replace Jose Barrero on the roster. You know, makes sense, right,
just send a shortstop down, call Elli up. Ellie takes
over as the starting worked up. Well, Jose well, Nick
Senzela got hurt, and then I think Freedo was out
(10:06):
for a bit, and then guys kept getting hurt. So
Jose Berrero ended up on the active roster until like
I think like the middle of July or maybe late July,
and he wasn't planning and I remember looking around like, well,
Jose's still here. And that's kind of been what it's
been with Austin Wins. They've said it's not forever, this
wasn't the plan, but when you look at how many
injuries they've had and how guys in Louis and we
(10:27):
can talk about resigns. Guys in Louisville either aren't ready
yet or you know, Cees coming back from from his
rehab assignment. They wanted to give him some extra time
to make sure that his timing was down and he
wasn't going to slump like we saw here and Stevenson
when they were kind of rushed back. That's why they
didn't want to rush Cees back. And then for long
(10:49):
reasons that we can talk about another time, because of
mid round drafting strategy and low level player developments in
the farm system, things that they've really changed over the
last four years. But kind of the older guys who
weren't a part of that are the guys in Triple
A right now, and it's a gap in the farm system.
The depth isn't there eating you know, like Blake Dunn
(11:10):
and Jacob hurdabys didn't pan out the way that I'd
expected to his contributors this year, Reese, you saw, you've
seen the highs. You've also seen you know, he turned
a long way on that ball in Atlanta and that
was pivotal. You know, he made some base running mistakes.
He's he needs to become more of a clean baseball player.
He has the highs, but for as much as we
talk about the right needing to play clean baseball, they
(11:31):
want to see reestake steps in that area as well,
So then you get past that. That's where they're at
from a depth standpoint right now, So you need twenty
six guys. Wins has swung the bat when he's been
given the opportunity, so he's kind of kind of by
the fault, even though that might not be fair to him.
That's left him on the ross.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Why not more opportunities though? If he is swinging the
bat effectively, especially for a team that is so inconsistent
on offense.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
That would have to come as a designated hitter. Now,
all right, why do Austin Wins it? For Garrett Hampson,
great question one. You are seeing though, how they they
don't view Austin Wins as a as a dynamic bat obviously,
even though he has that four four hundred average, even
when he was like really hot in April and we're
(12:16):
all buzzing about Austin Wins, they didn't take away a
single start from Jose Travino, who's still caught two out
of every three days, and even give one single one
to Austin Wins. So that does show how they viewed
him on the depth chart compared to the other guys
in the twenty sixth man roster. Now compared to the
guys in Louisville, you know Lee by Jordan, Ivan Johnson,
Edwin Rios like they see more value, I guess and
(12:39):
Wins is that there? But but all right, when Cees
comes back, let's see what happens regardless. So even if
Wind doesn't stick on the roster, he has shown that
he should stick on somewhere, which is good for a
guy who signed minor league deals them back to.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Back to On the the injury front, Charlie, where do
we stand on I know we've we've gotten some progression
with Austin Hayes, and I've seen Jamer Candelario Cees. How
close are some of these players to getting back for
the Reds?
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Dave with the rehabit sent and guys left it uh
more vague than you know. For example, even you know,
David Bell last year would say we're gonna get this
guy this many FX, this many games and we'll call
them back up to the big league. They've been more
fluid with that this year, and again I think great
examples are they recognize they rushed the year. They recognize
that Stevenson wasn't quite where he needed to be to
(13:30):
hit the ground running. So I think they're probably making
a more player dependent based on what they're seeing now.
Christian certainly has the results, he's clearly ready to hit,
But do they want to get a guy who was
badly slumping some more time in triple A? That's exactly
been the case. You could make a similar argument with
Jamer Candelario because of how that he was hitting Austin Hayes.
I believe today there was a possibility that he's doing
(13:52):
some more work, that he'd be doing some more work
on his feet in terms of running. The foul ball
got him right on kind of that circle bone on
your ankle, if you guys know what I'm talking about,
and he just has to get comfortable exploding off that,
and they're kind of testing that out and building that
up and seeing how that goes. Franconas that it might
not be just the minimum ten days, but it has
(14:15):
been any long term concerned yet and he's he's been
making cogitive momentum. So those are the short term replacement
guys that they're uly looking at Charlie.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
From a Bengal standpoint, obviously, next week gets to be
that next stage of the offseason. But I have heard
players and some coaches have gone out of the way
to talk more about Jermaine Burton. I know it's not
as much because it's not as meaningful right now, But
does it feel to you like Jermaine Burton has taken
(14:48):
a couple steps forward in the eyes of his teammates
and coaches here in the off season.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
There are some changes that have happened in terms of
set up, in terms of everything he's got going on,
that put him in a better sp to be the
consistent guy of the Bengals need him to be. Now,
can he continue down that down that track? Of course,
nobody knows, and with the trust burned last year, the
Bengals are going to make sure he goes above and beyond.
But in terms of what is he shown, where we'll
(15:14):
just where he stands right now is if that if
the Bengals played the game today, that he'd be a
part of the game plan because of their lack of
options a kick returner, and then because of their lack
of pure outside down the field speed guys like I'm
a big believer in Yoshibash's game, but that speed down
the sideline is when he brings the table. Charlie Jones
(15:34):
hasn't shown anything outside in the NFL. Isaiah Williams, that's
where we are in the depth chart right now. So
like that's Tremaine Burton's spot, and that is something very important.
So there is an opportunity in a window there for
him to continue to step into a bigger role. He
probably would have that opportunity if they played the game today,
but he's got to continue to keep doing the right
things to make sure he's in that spot in September.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Do you have any other players in mind? And when
you talk about a player that is going to or
needs to step in a bigger role this season, do
you have any guys in mind outside of Burton for
the Bengals.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
I mean, the huge spotlight's going to be on the
offensive guards, guys who don't have long track records or
any track record in fair Child in terms of what
they can be in the NFL. I'm going to keep
pounding this hrum all summer. The Bengals are counting on
Shamar Stewart, and you know, contract stuff is what it is.
The Bengals are counting on from our stew are playing
impact snaps and making impact pressures in plays and giving
(16:29):
them a sort of edge that they need more of
on the defensive line as well. Big Folet on the
meteorous night. He's entering a huge year. And then I'm
very intrigued to keep following. Josh Newton inside outside will
even be a starter. I don't know where he's going
to play or even how much he's going to play,
or if you'll just be a rotation, but I mean
you use the word edge. The Bengals know that's what
(16:50):
they need more of. And if it's Newton or Good,
I could see him becoming the captain of this defense
this year. Now I don't know if he's there yet,
but that sort of presence is the type of you
want on the field. So guys like that and how
they carry themselves this summer, I'm excited to keep following.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Do you expect to see Jermaine Pratt and Trey Hendrickson
next week at Mandatory Mini Camp.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I've come all the way around on this with Jermaine.
I mean, this is a guy who made such a
big play against the Raiders, he started a super Bowl
for the Bengals. I don't understand why the Bengals kind
of haven't let him go. And now maybe that's because
Pratt recognizes that he won't get the contract he has
now with any other team, and if he gets traded,
well that's a way to save some face. But I mean,
(17:34):
the Bengals don't have Jermaine Pratt in their plans. I'm
also interested to watch Muma John Meadow like, that's an
interesting guy that is very intriguing to me this preseason press.
Not in their plans. Do I expect to see Jermaine
know Trey? I'm not in u It wouldn't be smart
for me to predict Trey Hendrickson's plans because those can
(17:55):
change very quickly, So I truly don't know. I don't
even know if Trey knows. And and I remember Jesse
Bates one said he just changed his mind one day
and showed up, and that'll probably be what happens with
Trey Hendrickson.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
But does the the fines that was it was made
a big deal about with Zach's text to Trey previously,
would that apply to Jermaine Pratt as well if he's
still under contract.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I don't know. I don't know. I'm sure you can
excuse them, and they clearly don't want to excuse them
for Trey because he's in their plans. Jermaine's not, would
M I truly don't know how that would work behind
the scenes, because that can really change team by team
in situation by situation.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Sure, Charlie last on my end here, we talked a
lot about the offseason, and Paul Deaner Jr. Talked about
it this week. Just the the urgency that has felt
like has been on display for the last couple of weeks.
Have you picked up on some of the urgency you've
seen with this team? Obviously that changes again next week.
That's a big part of the offseason, but does it
(18:56):
feel different with what you've watched, at least for a
little bit of this offseason program.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I still think the biggest change they're going to make
to try to start fast this year is by talking
about it. We'll see him in the preseason some too,
But how meaningful willows reps be? You know, it might
be more, but I don't know that those are going
to be high impact to really get kind of that
that rust off. I don't know that you can risk
doing that in the preseason, particularly with your stars, and
(19:24):
if your stars aren't pushing themselves, which you wouldn't want.
I don't want to see Joe Burrow, you know, trying
to escape a stack. I don't want to see Jamar
Chase trying to break multiple tackles. If that's not where
the Bengals are at. I don't know that the preseason
where you get that most value. So address you of
a problem, recognize you of a problem, talk about it,
put a spotlight on it, put a focus on it.
(19:46):
They've already been doing more each of the last three
years in training camp. I've tried to beat that down
or to hammer that home as well. They have amps
up what they've been doing. I guess the big thing is,
well they will they do more tackling live with the
ones during camp kunds A big question. That'll be the
thing I'll be monitoring well they you know, we'll come
to that decision this summer. But I do think the
(20:06):
biggest change they'll make is just talking about it more
as opposed to trying to become the Pittsburgh Steelers and
in the way that they structure this camp.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Charlie Man, thank you so much as always for your time.
You got so much going on right now. What's the
easiest way for listeners to keep up with what you
got going on with the Reds and the Bengals.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Charlie shockboard and you can find it on substacks. You
can find it on Fox nineteen The gold Standard Show
with Joe Daniman. And then I'm really excited about what
we've got building power Stacks, the podcast I do with
Brian and Schlaw. You know, yesterday we had a you know,
a really kind of deep dive into where they they're at,
deep dive into the rotation and the moving pieces. There,
(20:46):
a long conversation about TJ. Friedl I've really been enjoying
that project with Brian, and I hope you guys are
checking it out.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
You know, Brian on that podcast calls you Chuck a lot.
Have you considered coming up with a name for him,
you know, call him like Geez or something like that.
There's some sort of a nickname for him.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
People call him Geze hot take though, Like I'm very
much a call you what you are named type of guy.
I'm not a huge nickname guy, just like I'm not
a big like handshake guy, like in terms of like
your cake, like in terms of I'm a fifth pump guy.
I'm a first name guy. I'm more and more meat
potato than that way. Love it all right?
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Interesting?
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Good to Charlie Man, Thank you so much. Have a
great weekend, man, see you see you guys. Yes, Charlie Goldsmith,
the gold standard.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
I like eating potatoes.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I like the gold standard.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
That is a good idea. It's a good name, good name.
Gaze Geez. We need to reach out to Geze.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
We do.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
I don't think we've ever had him on.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Let's add him into the hopper, all right, talkbos are next?
Since he three sixty ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports station.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Hey Alexa, what's going on in the NFL?
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Getting ESPN fifteen thirty from iHeartRadio. When dealing with the issue,
This is Cinci Shirts Cincy three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati,
sponsored in part by Cinci Shirts. Cincy Shirts All Cincy.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
All Day.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Welcome to our number two of Cincy three sixty. Thanks
to Cincy Shirts, we got two Cinci Shirts gift cards
to give away in this hour, and I can tell
you again about the Cinci Shirts Skyline Chili beach Towel.
It looks exactly like a hot sauce packet in the
shape of a beach towel. Cinci Shirts dot Com limited
supply available. Go pick one up for yourself. As we
(00:40):
do on Friday afternoons, on this program, we get a
chance to talk to our good friend Charlie Goldsmith. That
is no different today, he joins us. Right now, what's up, Charlie, Tony,
how are you doing, Charlie? I'm great. How if we
look at today, on this date in twenty twenty three,
Lie de la Cruz made his reds Day. It has
(01:01):
been filled with so many unbelievable moments. How do you
categorize Ellie de la Cruz's tenure with the Cincinnati Reads
up to this point?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
He went from underrated, like he tried to describe how
there was this six foot five switch in and shortstop
prospect with power you've never seen before too, not that
he was ever overrated, but just the expectations thrust upon
him to immediately be playing at an MVP caliber level
and how that impacted him in twenty twenty three two,
(01:32):
I will say underrated again. Like Ellie was eighth in
MVP voting last year, he'd probably be in like the
ten to fifteen range this season. I think he just
needs more help around him. Are there areas where he
could be more dynamic this season where he could be
more consistent this season? Yes? But who is I mean
hole farmer Freddie Galavis Dekosar had some great years. Edgar
(01:56):
Atrio is the Red shortstop once Edgar Carreras.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Like that these Freddy Galvius.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
And the Red to have Ellie de Lacruz. Now, I'm
not worried at all about him maybe not reaching his
total peak this season. He just needs some more help
around him.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
When it comes to this season specifically, are there any
concerns about his defense? Because a couple of different metrics
would suggest whether it's outs above average or defensive run
save that he's just struggling. Is there anything we can
point to about maybe why that is or if that's
a concern moving forward.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
First, and then we'll kind of share a little known
fact here after this about the defense. It's really just
the consistency, Like he really does make all the plays
in practice. He really does implement the technique and all
that stuff. It's just when the lights are on and
you're not one hundred percent sure if the ball is
getting hit to you, he makes mistakes. That's a part
of it. There are probably five shortstops in baseball who
(02:55):
you feel fantastic about their defense. I still do think
Ellie makes up for the overwhelming majority of the plays.
I'm still seeing Elia probably the Red second best defender
behind Matt McClain, you know, even ahead of TJ. Friedel
because of the dynamic nature. He kind of is a
scheme changer too, with how he impacts relay throws and
(03:16):
all that little known facts. You know, where the cameras
are kind of pass the first base dugout, Yes, you
know what I'm talking about. It's a throw hit that
like netting that used to be out of play, awarded
an extra base that rule actually changed this year. So
now a throw specifically from shortstop is what that angle is,
(03:39):
goes over the first baseman's head and hits that netting
over by first based step, all still in play, so
that that change actually does help Ellie. It's kind of
not relevant to your question, but I just haven't heard
that discuss that has led to fewer extra bases allowed
on ell on Ellie de Lacruz high throws because of
(03:59):
that rule changing.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
What's the temperature right now of this team, Charlie, because
they've obviously had a little bit of a disappointing stretch.
They're they're thirty and thirty three. They're not going to
have Elie de la Cruz for this series against Arizona
when things go bad like they did against the Milwaukee Brewers.
What's the feel of this locker room right now when
you think about this clubhouse.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, some weeks way on you more than others. Some
weeks you look back, Oh, we're just hurt, We're just this,
We're just that. I think this past week, even though
Hunter Green and Austin he's hurt, this was one of
those weeks where the Reds really recognized the missed opportunity.
And what I keep saying about kind of the series
recently against the Cubs, both of them and then the
Bruis as well, was that didn't play that bad. There
weren't a ton of mischances. Maybe you know, two or
(04:44):
three total plays you'd want to have back, but they
weren't running downs consistently, they weren't facing all these great pitchers.
They played fine. And for kind of your average level
to be so far behind the two team or two
of the teams you're chasing in the division is a
cause concerned and it's a sign that the Reds have
to make significant les, you know, level up multiple levels
(05:08):
to kind of find those things they're chasing. But also
you saw like the chances the Reds are selling are
sellers at the trade deadline. Those just continue to increase
when you have games that just aren't good enough like
the Reds have had.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Obviously, the Hunter Green news is devastating for this team,
as it felt like he was getting back to form.
I know they're gonna they're they're viewing the MRI mentioned
the back pain starting the Terry Francona as well. How
concerning is it from a Hunter Green standpoint? When you
talk about re injuring that growing and what that looks
like going forward.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
My understanding even is that it wasn't like a re
injury or a restrain. It was nothing new that was
shown up on the MRI. But the fact that Hunter
is still dealing with symptoms from that injury, that he
did rehab for three weeks, and that he did do
a lot to put behind him. The fact that they
weren't able to kind of get all of that put
behind them call on a cause for concern. But I mean,
(06:01):
they're gonna have to make sure they do this right,
and that's what tire Francona keeps saying. So is that
a different approach, is that having Hunter do an even
more in depth set of rehab and strength training and
stuff like that, that might take a little longer. That's
a question I'm going to try to get answered this
weekend because they probably, excuse me, they probably put that
plan together kind of over the last two days, So
(06:24):
I'll be interested to learn more about that. But I
do not want to make sure they handle this, and
so that means that means Wade Miley in the rotation.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Well, previously they went to Chase Petty. Now they go
to Wade Miley. Neither have been wonderful. Why Miley over Petty?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
First of all, when earlier Wade wasn't ready? Wade wasn't
ready basically until this past week coming back from Tommy John,
Why Wade Miley over Chase Petty? I think it's a
pretty simple answer, right. We saw the last time Petty
was up, they had him available and avoided pitching him. Well,
that's a sign that they not to say that he
wasn't ready, but he showed he's got a lot more
(07:03):
that he has to work on. Petty's just twenty one.
Petty would be or Petty was I think the youngest
guy to make a start in the big leagues this year,
and he didn't even have a ton of minor league
experience under his belt over the course of his minor
league career. So I think you saw all that based
on where he was, based on what he was comfortable throwing,
what he wasn't comfortable throwing. We'll probably see Petty this summer,
(07:27):
just because that's how these things work. You know. Aaron
Wilkerson is kind of a journeyman in Triple A who's
kind of the other option as well. But Miley, I
know he looked bad on Wednesday. Now it was his
first out and coming back from Tommy John. But my
understanding is around the league there was interest from teams
who saw him as a starting pitcher. So it's not
like the Reds were the only team that's like Wade,
(07:47):
Miley is still a starting pitcher right now. He knows
how to compete, he knows how to more important to
eat some innings. And I don't know that he's gonna wow.
He's not gonna go wow anybody. But in terms of
what a guy who's essentially your ninth start is behind
the five, behind Brendan Williamson and Red Louder and Kurfin
Spires and a couple other guys as well. To have way,
(08:09):
Miley is your ninth guy. Well, that's just where there
you're at, right Charlie.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I know it's not his time for the Reds yet,
but the early returns on how good Chase Burns has looked,
give us a little of your thought on the progression
that he's making and where he ultimately ends this season
exceeding everyone's expectations.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
When you look at the commands, the aggressiveness, the ability
to just go out and compete, like pin your ears
back into defensive end term, but I think it applies
to your Chase Burns just notes how to pin his
years back and go after guys, and that really shows
up and kind of the approach you steve when you
watch him pitch, He's checked every box. They've been wowed
just by how the stuff looks. Now he's still pitching
(08:52):
once every six days, not once every five days. He's
still pitched only more than five innings once, so there's
work to do. Part of it is like the experience
of being a professional pitcher. It's so much different than
the experience of being a college pitcher. Even from a
schedule standpoint, you kind of the guy to understand what
his schedule looks like unless your Paul schemes. Now they
(09:13):
are keeping an eye on Burns is in case they
need him at some point this season, and hate me.
That leads the possibility and the opportunity open that Chase
Bern's could be in the Big League this season for sure. Uh.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
The conversation this week has come up about Austin wins
and the fact that this team has carried a third
catcher for now so long how do you view that
roster spot for the Cincinnati Reds. Is it going to
remain Austin Wins. Is there someone else that you have
your eye on, Maybe it's someone coming back from injury.
How do you view the end of this roster right now?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
It's funny you started this asking me or reminding me
that today was Eli's debut, when Ellie was going to
get called up. The plan was that he was going
to replace Jose Barrero on the roster. You know, makes sense, right,
just send a shortstop down, call Elli up. Ellie takes
over as the starting worked up. Well, Jose well, Nick
Senzela got hurt, and then I think Freedo was out
(10:06):
for a bit, and then guys kept getting hurt. So
Jose Berrero ended up on the active roster until like
I think like the middle of July or maybe late July,
and he wasn't planning and I remember looking around like, well,
Jose's still here. And that's kind of been what it's
been with Austin Wins. They've said it's not forever, this
wasn't the plan, but when you look at how many
injuries they've had and how guys in Louis and we
(10:27):
can talk about resigns. Guys in Louisville either aren't ready
yet or you know, Cees coming back from from his
rehab assignment. They wanted to give him some extra time
to make sure that his timing was down and he
wasn't going to slump like we saw here and Stevenson
when they were kind of rushed back. That's why they
didn't want to rush Cees back. And then for long
(10:49):
reasons that we can talk about another time, because of
mid round drafting strategy and low level player developments in
the farm system, things that they've really changed over the
last four years. But kind of the older guys who
weren't a part of that are the guys in Triple
A right now, and it's a gap in the farm system.
The depth isn't there eating you know, like Blake Dunn
(11:10):
and Jacob hurdabys didn't pan out the way that I'd
expected to his contributors this year, Reese, you saw, you've
seen the highs. You've also seen you know, he turned
a long way on that ball in Atlanta and that
was pivotal. You know, he made some base running mistakes.
He's he needs to become more of a clean baseball player.
He has the highs, but for as much as we
talk about the right needing to play clean baseball, they
(11:31):
want to see reestake steps in that area as well,
So then you get past that. That's where they're at
from a depth standpoint right now, So you need twenty
six guys. Wins has swung the bat when he's been
given the opportunity, so he's kind of kind of by
the fault, even though that might not be fair to him.
That's left him on the ross.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Why not more opportunities though? If he is swinging the
bat effectively, especially for a team that is so inconsistent
on offense.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
That would have to come as a designated hitter. Now,
all right, why do Austin Wins it? For Garrett Hampson,
great question one. You are seeing though, how they they
don't view Austin Wins as a as a dynamic bat obviously,
even though he has that four four hundred average, even
when he was like really hot in April and we're
(12:16):
all buzzing about Austin Wins, they didn't take away a
single start from Jose Travino, who's still caught two out
of every three days, and even give one single one
to Austin Wins. So that does show how they viewed
him on the depth chart compared to the other guys
in the twenty sixth man roster. Now compared to the
guys in Louisville, you know Lee by Jordan, Ivan Johnson,
Edwin Rios like they see more value, I guess and
(12:39):
Wins is that there? But but all right, when Cees
comes back, let's see what happens regardless. So even if
Wind doesn't stick on the roster, he has shown that
he should stick on somewhere, which is good for a
guy who signed minor league deals them back to.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Back to On the the injury front, Charlie, where do
we stand on I know we've we've gotten some progression
with Austin Hayes, and I've seen Jamer Candelario Cees. How
close are some of these players to getting back for
the Reds?
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Dave with the rehabit sent and guys left it uh
more vague than you know. For example, even you know,
David Bell last year would say we're gonna get this
guy this many FX, this many games and we'll call
them back up to the big league. They've been more
fluid with that this year, and again I think great
examples are they recognize they rushed the year. They recognize
that Stevenson wasn't quite where he needed to be to
(13:30):
hit the ground running. So I think they're probably making
a more player dependent based on what they're seeing now.
Christian certainly has the results, he's clearly ready to hit,
But do they want to get a guy who was
badly slumping some more time in triple A? That's exactly
been the case. You could make a similar argument with
Jamer Candelario because of how that he was hitting Austin Hayes.
I believe today there was a possibility that he's doing
(13:52):
some more work, that he'd be doing some more work
on his feet in terms of running. The foul ball
got him right on kind of that circle bone on
your ankle, if you guys know what I'm talking about,
and he just has to get comfortable exploding off that,
and they're kind of testing that out and building that
up and seeing how that goes. Franconas that it might
not be just the minimum ten days, but it has
(14:15):
been any long term concerned yet and he's he's been
making cogitive momentum. So those are the short term replacement
guys that they're uly looking at Charlie.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
From a Bengal standpoint, obviously, next week gets to be
that next stage of the offseason. But I have heard
players and some coaches have gone out of the way
to talk more about Jermaine Burton. I know it's not
as much because it's not as meaningful right now, But
does it feel to you like Jermaine Burton has taken
(14:48):
a couple steps forward in the eyes of his teammates
and coaches here in the off season.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
There are some changes that have happened in terms of
set up, in terms of everything he's got going on,
that put him in a better sp to be the
consistent guy of the Bengals need him to be. Now,
can he continue down that down that track? Of course,
nobody knows, and with the trust burned last year, the
Bengals are going to make sure he goes above and beyond.
But in terms of what is he shown, where we'll
(15:14):
just where he stands right now is if that if
the Bengals played the game today, that he'd be a
part of the game plan because of their lack of
options a kick returner, and then because of their lack
of pure outside down the field speed guys like I'm
a big believer in Yoshibash's game, but that speed down
the sideline is when he brings the table. Charlie Jones
(15:34):
hasn't shown anything outside in the NFL. Isaiah Williams, that's
where we are in the depth chart right now. So
like that's Tremaine Burton's spot, and that is something very important.
So there is an opportunity in a window there for
him to continue to step into a bigger role. He
probably would have that opportunity if they played the game today,
but he's got to continue to keep doing the right
things to make sure he's in that spot in September.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Do you have any other players in mind? And when
you talk about a player that is going to or
needs to step in a bigger role this season, do
you have any guys in mind outside of Burton for
the Bengals.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
I mean, the huge spotlight's going to be on the
offensive guards, guys who don't have long track records or
any track record in fair Child in terms of what
they can be in the NFL. I'm going to keep
pounding this hrum all summer. The Bengals are counting on
Shamar Stewart, and you know, contract stuff is what it is.
The Bengals are counting on from our stew are playing
impact snaps and making impact pressures in plays and giving
(16:29):
them a sort of edge that they need more of
on the defensive line as well. Big Folet on the
meteorous night. He's entering a huge year. And then I'm
very intrigued to keep following. Josh Newton inside outside will
even be a starter. I don't know where he's going
to play or even how much he's going to play,
or if you'll just be a rotation, but I mean
you use the word edge. The Bengals know that's what
(16:50):
they need more of. And if it's Newton or Good,
I could see him becoming the captain of this defense
this year. Now I don't know if he's there yet,
but that sort of presence is the type of you
want on the field. So guys like that and how
they carry themselves this summer, I'm excited to keep following.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Do you expect to see Jermaine Pratt and Trey Hendrickson
next week at Mandatory Mini Camp.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I've come all the way around on this with Jermaine.
I mean, this is a guy who made such a
big play against the Raiders, he started a super Bowl
for the Bengals. I don't understand why the Bengals kind
of haven't let him go. And now maybe that's because
Pratt recognizes that he won't get the contract he has
now with any other team, and if he gets traded,
well that's a way to save some face. But I mean,
(17:34):
the Bengals don't have Jermaine Pratt in their plans. I'm
also interested to watch Muma John Meadow like, that's an
interesting guy that is very intriguing to me this preseason press.
Not in their plans. Do I expect to see Jermaine
know Trey? I'm not in u It wouldn't be smart
for me to predict Trey Hendrickson's plans because those can
(17:55):
change very quickly, So I truly don't know. I don't
even know if Trey knows. And and I remember Jesse
Bates one said he just changed his mind one day
and showed up, and that'll probably be what happens with
Trey Hendrickson.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
But does the the fines that was it was made
a big deal about with Zach's text to Trey previously,
would that apply to Jermaine Pratt as well if he's
still under contract.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I don't know. I don't know. I'm sure you can
excuse them, and they clearly don't want to excuse them
for Trey because he's in their plans. Jermaine's not, would
M I truly don't know how that would work behind
the scenes, because that can really change team by team
in situation by situation.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Sure, Charlie last on my end here, we talked a
lot about the offseason, and Paul Deaner Jr. Talked about
it this week. Just the the urgency that has felt
like has been on display for the last couple of weeks.
Have you picked up on some of the urgency you've
seen with this team? Obviously that changes again next week.
That's a big part of the offseason, but does it
(18:56):
feel different with what you've watched, at least for a
little bit of this offseason program.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I still think the biggest change they're going to make
to try to start fast this year is by talking
about it. We'll see him in the preseason some too,
But how meaningful willows reps be? You know, it might
be more, but I don't know that those are going
to be high impact to really get kind of that
that rust off. I don't know that you can risk
doing that in the preseason, particularly with your stars, and
(19:24):
if your stars aren't pushing themselves, which you wouldn't want.
I don't want to see Joe Burrow, you know, trying
to escape a stack. I don't want to see Jamar
Chase trying to break multiple tackles. If that's not where
the Bengals are at. I don't know that the preseason
where you get that most value. So address you of
a problem, recognize you of a problem, talk about it,
put a spotlight on it, put a focus on it.
(19:46):
They've already been doing more each of the last three
years in training camp. I've tried to beat that down
or to hammer that home as well. They have amps
up what they've been doing. I guess the big thing is,
well they will they do more tackling live with the
ones during camp kunds A big question. That'll be the
thing I'll be monitoring well they you know, we'll come
to that decision this summer. But I do think the
(20:06):
biggest change they'll make is just talking about it more
as opposed to trying to become the Pittsburgh Steelers and
in the way that they structure this camp.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Charlie Man, thank you so much as always for your time.
You got so much going on right now. What's the
easiest way for listeners to keep up with what you
got going on with the Reds and the Bengals.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Charlie shockboard and you can find it on substacks. You
can find it on Fox nineteen The gold Standard Show
with Joe Daniman. And then I'm really excited about what
we've got building power Stacks, the podcast I do with
Brian and Schlaw. You know, yesterday we had a you know,
a really kind of deep dive into where they they're at,
deep dive into the rotation and the moving pieces. There,
(20:46):
a long conversation about TJ. Friedl I've really been enjoying
that project with Brian, and I hope you guys are
checking it out.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
You know, Brian on that podcast calls you Chuck a lot.
Have you considered coming up with a name for him,
you know, call him like Geez or something like that.
There's some sort of a nickname for him.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
People call him Geze hot take though, Like I'm very
much a call you what you are named type of guy.
I'm not a huge nickname guy, just like I'm not
a big like handshake guy, like in terms of like
your cake, like in terms of I'm a fifth pump guy.
I'm a first name guy. I'm more and more meat
potato than that way. Love it all right?
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Interesting?
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Good to Charlie Man, Thank you so much. Have a
great weekend, man, see you see you guys. Yes, Charlie Goldsmith,
the gold standard.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
I like eating potatoes.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I like the gold standard.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
That is a good idea. It's a good name, good name.
Gaze Geez. We need to reach out to Geze.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
We do.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
I don't think we've ever had him on.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Let's add him into the hopper, all right, talkbos are next?
Since he three sixty ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports station.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Hey Alexa, what's going on in the NFL?
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Getting ESPN fifteen thirty from iHeartRadio. When dealing with the issue,
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