Cincy 360 w/ Austin Elmore -- 10/29/24

Austin talks about the Bengals issues and if they are fixable, chats with Joe Danneman and Pat Brennan, takes your calls and TalkBacks, and more on ESPN 1530!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
About Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in part by Skyline Chile.
Stop by Skyline Chile for a three way or chee
Coney today.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Feeling good?

Speaker 1 (00:10):
It's Skyline Time. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
Hi, Hello and welcome in. Since he three sixty on
a Tuesday, No, I am not Tony Pike part time.
Pike is out again today. My name is Austin Elmore.
With you until three o'clock today. And you know what,
I'm gonna give Tony a pass on this one. If
you heard any of our show yesterday, you know that

(00:37):
the Big Fellow was struggling with his voice. A lot
of travel over the last couple of days, a lot
of talking over the last couple of days in Colorado,
down at the Holy Grail for the Bengals game yesterday, here,
and then another three hours on the Tony and Mo
Football Show. Big Tone's voice needs a break. It had
been betraying him over the last couple of days. So

(00:58):
Tone is taking a rest day. He plans on being
back tomorrow. We certainly will miss him for our normal
Tuesday show. We've got a lot to talk about. FC
Cincinnati won a playoff match last night one nil at
TQL Stadium. At two o'clock today, we're gonna check in
with Pat Brennan, who covers Fccincinnati for Cincinnati dot Com.

(01:22):
We'll talk to Pat get his takeaways from game number
one and a game that a lot of folks seem
to think looked a little bit like the old FC Cincinnati,
like the FC Cincinnati we expected to see at times
this year, and we'll talk to Pat and break down
all of that. You'll hear a little bit from Pat
Noonan coming up as well, as he was victorious last

(01:45):
night as the GAFFA for FC Cincinnati. At one o'clock,
as we do every Tuesday, Joe Danaman Fox nineteen covers
the Cincinnati Bengals, covers all sports really because he does it.
Alway's a jack of all trades, a Joe of all trades.
Joe Dana and will join us the Dean talking about
the Bengals, talking about the Bengals and trying to figure

(02:07):
out what exactly is going wrong, how exactly does it
get fixed, and where exactly do we go from here?
And that's kind of what I want to start with today.
We'll get into the World Series. The Yankees are down
three nothing to the Dodgers. We'll get into some other
baseball stuff. The Reds made a couple of moves yesterday.
We'll get into all that a little bit later on.

(02:29):
I also want to have a conversation about Jermaine Burton.
You'll hear from Zach Taylor a couple of minutes of
when he spoke yesterday. We've got football in the Nattie,
We've got talkbacks, we've got everything you can possibly imagine
coming up in the show today. And UH looking forward
to to breaking it all down with you. Five one, three, seven,
four nine fifteen thirty is the phone number. You can

(02:52):
also tweet it me at Audie Elmore A U T
y E L M O r E and I'll tell
you what the Twitter has been blowing up over the
last couple of days. We're gonna have a Jermaine Burton
conversation coming up in just a little bit. But I've
seen a lot of what I feel like are overreactions

(03:13):
to where the Bengals are at right now. I think
there was some frustration around what happened on Sunday because
of how well they started and how it looked like, Okay,
maybe they can finally get back on track. They'll beat
a good team, they'll beat a good team at home.
They'll just keep They'll find a way to win for
a third straight week, and then they've got a chance

(03:36):
to beat the Raiders at home and go into Baltimore
at five hundred. That was like the plan going into Sunday.
And after the first drive, you felt great about it.
Even after the second drive, you felt pretty good about it.
And they fell apart really in the second half of
that game and ended up essentially getting blown out. And
I keep waffling back and forth about how I feel

(03:59):
about that game and how I feel about the direction
of the franchise, because it seems to me, and I
know I briefly touched on this yesterday, it seems to
me there's two camps. There's everybody blamed Zach Taylor. It's
his fault, and there's everybody blame Mike Brown and Duke Tobin.
It's their fault.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
You know.

Speaker 3 (04:19):
I know it's not great sports talk radio to say this,
but the fact of the matter is, the truth is
in the middle. I have long defended Zach because I've
seen enough of the film and the players and the
stats to say this team with him can get to

(04:41):
where they want to go. And I always thought that
maybe Zach isn't the top two or three play callers
in the NFL, maybe he's not among the top two
or three elite coaches in the NFL, but he does
have an elite quarterback, and those two things meshed together,
I feel like is enough to overcome any of the

(05:04):
other shortcomings he may have or the team may have.
That's always kind of been my belief. When you couple
a good enough head coach with a great quarterback, you
can get the desired results. That's always been my mentality.
We've seen that happen over the course of time in
the NFL before, and I do look at the current

(05:29):
roster and think, I don't know that they're good enough,
but should they be? And if so, does that fall
on Zach. We've talked a lot about Frank Pollock in
the offensive line and how people have been calling for

(05:49):
his job for quite some time, and for the most part,
that unit has underperformed during his tenuere here. Well, most
would say that they are better now than they have
been at any point under Frank Pollock. From a pass
protection standpoint, I would pretty much agree with that. They

(06:09):
did and have dealt with injuries this year more than
they did at any point last year. Already, Orlando Brown
Junior missed most of the game, Trent Brown has done
for the season. Amarius Mims is starting at right tackle
as a rookie, and while I think Mims has held
his own, there have been other parts of the offensive

(06:29):
line that just haven't been there. For example, Pro Football Focused,
they rank thirty second in the NFL, dead last when
it comes to run blocking. And if there has been
one major issue with this offense so far, we talked
about it yesterday. Dan Horde said it in the post
game on these airwaves. They do not have a dependable

(06:52):
running game. It showed up, it showed flashes early in
the season, but that's gone away, and so or where
does it go? Like, how do you fix it? How
do you get it? Back? To me? That falls on
Zach Taylor, because clearly you have the personnel and the
ability and the scheme that has worked in the past.

(07:14):
Why is it not working anymore? Is that on Zach
to not get the most out of that run game.
Is it that Orlando Brown Junior hasn't been healthy? Is
it that other teams are making adjustments. The linebackers they
lead the team and they lead among the leaders in
the NFL in tackles, but to me are very inconsistent,

(07:35):
especially Jermaine Pratt. James Becher is the linebackers coach. Jordan
Kovaks is the secondary's coach for the Bengals. He's one
of two secondaries coach him and Charles Burke's coach corners
and secondaries. Those two positions have been atrociously bad for
this organization the last two seasons. Should they be fired?

(07:59):
Should their jobs be on the line. Loui an Arumo,
it felt like, for the first time, it feels like
in his tenure here we are questioning every decision he
makes because he doesn't seem to be making the right decisions,
whether it's not blitzing anybody against the chiefs or blitzing
too many people against the commanders. No real feel for

(08:23):
his personnel. And you look at some of the guys
that they have on paper, it makes sense for them
to have taken steps forward this year, and they have not.
Cam Taylor, Britt Dj Turner obviously lost Dax Hill for
the season. Von Bell looks worse than he's ever looked
Geno Stone. I can't find anything really great to say

(08:47):
about Genostone. That secondary has been a major issue. The
secondary is a even bigger issue when you're front seven.
When you're defensive line, cannot under any circumstances rush the passer.
Defensive line coach Mary and Hobby been here for a while,

(09:10):
not a lot of results. Bj Hill, I think, has
been a nice part of that and at times has
flashed this season. But again, inconsistencies across the board. There's
nobody on the defensive staff that I have a lot
of confidence in, not even Anarumo because it seems like

(09:31):
he's not pressing the right buttons. I have confidence in
Dan Pitcher on the offensive side of the ball. I
have confidence in Troy Walters, the wide receivers coach. I
have confidence in James Casey, the tight ends coach. Who
else do you really feel confident in on the offensive
side of the ball. So these are the things to

(09:53):
me that I point towards Zach and say, this is
your staff, and you are not getting enough out of
the talent that is currently on this roster. And when
you look and think about the elite coaches in the
National Football League. If you listen to this show at all, ever,
you know that I seem to never shut up about

(10:15):
Kevin O'Connell and about Matt Lafleur, and about guys like
Kyle Shanahan and Andy Reid, the elite offensive play callers
in the NFL. It feels like no matter who is
on the field, they maximize their potential and they are
able to do whatever they want or provide easy answers

(10:39):
and keep the offense moving consistently when those guys are
at the helm, and we've mentioned they did it. Kevin
O'Connell's doing it with Sam Darnold, and Matt Lafleour did
it for a chunk this year with Malik Willis, and
they've done a great job of developing Jordan Love. Like
those sorts of guys, it feels like they all ways

(11:00):
get the most out of their players, and I think
it would be a fair criticism to say that that
has been lacking here in Cincinnati. Now, I will say,
go back to a year ago when the offense had
to change, it had to adapt, it had to move
on from Burrow who was unhealthy. Yet they found a

(11:21):
couple of ways to win games when he was hurt.
They were fantastic when he was healthy, and then when
Jake Browning got here, they molded the offense. They had
one stinker against Pittsburgh, but they molded the offense to
him and put themselves in contention. And that is the
part that is frustrating for me is when I look back,

(11:41):
and I know people are tired of talking about the
Super Bowl year, But when I look back at twenty
twenty one and I look back at twenty twenty two,
I saw a team that for back to back seasons,
showed up in the biggest moments, made the biggest plays,
played well in the postseason, and was on the on
the brink of winning a Super Bowl one year, on

(12:03):
the brink of going back the next. And they just
weren't able to get it done in that second year.
But I felt like I saw enough over two seasons
to be like, Okay, yes, this organization has shifted. The
Super Bowl year was not a one off. Everything is fine.
This is who they are moving forward. That was my

(12:24):
belief in a way when Burrow went down last year
and they were able to keep it, you know, stay
in contention and make big plays against good teams. Think
about the win over Minnesota late in the year. Last year,
when they were able to win some of those big
games and stay in contention till the very end with

(12:46):
Jake Browning, who was an unrestricted or a restricted rights
free agent or whatever that was, I thought, Okay, this
is a sign of the culture and the staff and
the offense. It it only confirmed my belief that the
Bengals have the right guy and are still going down

(13:07):
the right path. But a three and five start this
year feels different because of the regression of certain guys
on defense, because the offense has struggled in recent weeks,
because the run game has disappeared, and yeah, there's been injuries.

(13:30):
T Higgins can't get on the field. There's a whole
bunch of hoopla about Jermaine Burton. But even at the
beginning of the year, when the offense was humming and
you saw this change in them being more multiple, it
again confirmed my beliefs that this is the team that's
on the right track, and this is offensively a team
that's going to be fine. But when I look at

(13:55):
it beyond the offense, and I look at it at offense, defense,
special teams, there is clearly some sort of disconnect this year,
it's not working. There's not the same attitude, and I
can't help but wonder how much did the Jamar Chase
contract situation, the t Higgins contract situation, the Trey Hendrickson

(14:19):
contract situation, how much of that played a role truly
in the attitude of this locker room. And is there
now a belief from the players inside the locker room
that the organization will not exhaust every option to win

(14:39):
A and B, will not take care of them as
players and people Because Jamar felt insulted, t Higgins asked
for a trade but showed up and played on the
franchise tag. Trey Hendrickson was basically told to take a hike.
We already gave you a pay cut. That on top

(15:01):
the well documented past of this organization when it comes
to those players and contract situations and not being at
the forefront of the creative capology and the necessary things
to do in the modern NFL when it comes to
player acquisition and contracts. And when you have three years

(15:25):
in a row, well, you have the Super Bowl year,
and then you have a tough loss in twenty two,
a tough season in twenty three, and a bad start
in twenty four When does the mutiny begin to form,
and if so, is it directed at Zach Taylor or
is it directed at the front office? Because I don't

(15:47):
think you can look at this organization and not say
they went for it, and they have gone for it,
and they are still going for it. From the moment
Joe got here to where we are now. It's my
belief that this team has tried, truthfully, tried to win

(16:09):
a championship. Their decision making in the draft at times
is questionable. Why they haven't signed players questionable. Not trading
for a guy or getting a pass rusher questionable, But
the amount of money that they have spent and the
effort that they have put into the roster, whether it

(16:30):
be a Sheldon Rankins or a Trey Hendrickson or a
DJ Reader or whoever it might be, over the last
couple of years, I cannot with a straight face say
they didn't go for it. It feels like they've gone
for it. It feels like they're trying truthfully. But then

(16:50):
you have the moments where DJ Reader walks away, you
have the moments where the Chase contract blows up in
their face. You have the moments where It's like, why
can't they go get a pass rusher, Why didn't they
do this? And how much of the Borough contract really
affects their decision making moving forward. All of the sudden,

(17:14):
those conversations about Mike Brown and the family and the
way that they approach roster building and the way that
they approach their business are bubbling back up, and I'm
wondering if I was drinking the kool aid a little
bit too much, if I had seen what happened in
the off season of twenty twenty and I had seen

(17:36):
what happened in twenty twenty one, and I had seen
what happened in twenty twenty two, and I had thought, Wow,
this organization really has changed. They went to back to
back AFC Championship games. They found a way to do it.
They're spending money in free agency, They've changed slightly their
draft philosophy, and when after a guy like Jermaine Burton,

(17:59):
where they tip woulden. But then there was always these
little moments where it's like, wait a minute, what's that
about the way they handled Jamar Chase's contract, the drafting
of Jackson Carmen, Joe Mixon. To an extent, there were
some question marks around, and it just makes me wonder,
and I don't like feeling this way. Was I drinking

(18:23):
the kool aid? Were we all made to be fools?
Was the plan for them really to go after it
for a couple of years and then once they signed Burrow,
that's it. The organization in the family has a reputation
for a reason because historically they have been cheap, and

(18:47):
historically they have been stubborn, and historically they do not
change their ways. They have changed their ways in certain
parts of this organization, and to an extent, I thought
that those signified a greater change deeper within. But now

(19:11):
I'm worried that I was wrong about that. Now I'm
worried that that really wasn't the case, And that is
a tough spot for me to be in as a fan.
I don't I've talked about this before. I don't really
let the losses get to me anymore. But for the

(19:31):
last two days I've had a pit in my stomach
thinking about this organization and seeing the chatter and seeing
the conversations and wondering is this window actually closing and
nobody's there to prop it up. Nobody's there to prop
it open. Was all of this really a farce and

(19:54):
Mike Brown and Katie and Troy are still going to
be them the same people that have I've had those
conversations talked about over and over and over again about
them and their belief towards roster building or has there
been actually a change? You know, Duke Tobin I don't

(20:16):
think has done a great job, but how much of
that has been impacted by Mike. It was my understanding
from what I was told that Mike wasn't doing as
much of the football stuff anymore, and that that was
part of the reason why they had been so successful
the last couple of years. But also, if that's the case,
then the crosshairs, to me go towards Duke Tobin and

(20:39):
him not being able to put together a couple of
good drafts. I know that the Bengals have invested in
different ways of player development, in different ways of player scouting.
They've put more money and effort into analytics than they
ever have in the past. They are open minded towards that,

(21:00):
but but it has not produced fruitful results. And now
everybody's sticking around. Everybody's standing around like that Spider Man
meme pointing at one another saying it's Mike or it's Duke,
or it's Zach, or it's Lou or it's Frank or
whoever it might be. And we're just in a tough
spot of like, is it really ownership? Is it Duke?

(21:23):
Is it Zach? Is it the coaches? Is it us
for believing that everything really had changed? And is this
the life that comes with high expectations? We're even with
a three to five record and a favorable schedule and
one of the best quarterbacks on the planet on October
twenty ninth, it feels like all hope is gone. That's

(21:45):
not a life I want to live. More to come.
Football in the Nattie is next. This is Sincy three
to six the ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 5 (21:53):
Then Nattie, brought to you in part by a door
and window company on the official home of the Mngos
ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
Welcome into Football in the Natti, Austin illmore with you today.
I went way too long in that opening segment, so
for that I apologize. But it is Football in the
Natty and I want to play a couple of minutes
for you of Zach Taylor from yesterday he gets into
a little bit of Jermaine Burton, gets into the third
down play call, the fourth down play call, and other stuff,

(22:25):
and it starts. The Bengals head coach with an update
on Orlando Brown Junior and t Higgins. Here's Zach Taylor
from yesterday's press conference.

Speaker 6 (22:33):
Yeah, it's gonna be similar as it was last week
for Orlando, you know, to see where the week takes us.
No worse off than it was going in just as
the game went, kind of got hit on it and
felt some discomfort where it was not as best interest
to keep playing. So we'll see where that goes during
the week. Same with Tea. You know, it's we'll just
take a day to day with him. There were some

(22:55):
things he was trying to do Sunday morning. At the
end of the day, I was just smart to to
limit that and series at this week so serious add
as the week goes day to day, I'd say both
are day to day.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
Yeah, what can.

Speaker 6 (23:10):
Be done to get more pressure defensively?

Speaker 3 (23:12):
I mean, if you had conversations with lou about.

Speaker 6 (23:14):
What's more, I mean yeah, I mean, yeah, there's there's
a lot of things we've tried. There's some things we've
done in previous games, and you know that's always that's
it's it's a challenge. You know, there's times when you're
pressure and if you don't get home, you thin out
the back end of the defense and you rush three
or four and you don't get home, and then you
know they got a hold up on the back end.
So something that we continue to evaluate constantly, you know,

(23:37):
trying to find ways to disrupt the other team's offense
and just keep working towards it with he and he setbacks.

Speaker 7 (23:44):
Is having any practice.

Speaker 8 (23:45):
Other things you can change of how much you.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
Practices or how you monitor.

Speaker 6 (23:49):
Yeah, we've done all that, you know. It's those are
things that we've always factored in and hydration, all the
things that that you can think of to help him,
and and he has done that as well, you know.
I think so it's just unfortunate that it happened, especially
in practice on Friday. But again he's he's going through

(24:09):
the rehab process and trying to do everything you can
to get on the field and help us.

Speaker 9 (24:13):
I think the difference that you see in just what
you guys were we're not able to do offensively without.

Speaker 10 (24:19):
Team stuff that he just like missing.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
That extra element, you know.

Speaker 6 (24:24):
I mean, yeah, he's a premier player in this league.
I felt like other guys were stepping up and we felt,
you know, the first half, we had three possessions, we
felt like we got in scoring range on all of them.
And then the second half came out the fourth possession
and did it and then got drailed on the fourth
and one, and then two plays later the ball got
tipped and picked. So there wasn't a lot where we

(24:45):
felt like, man, we're just not having any progress here offensively. Really,
I thought the guys stepped up to that. Mike Geseki
stepped up and made some really big time catches, and
I thought the backs did a nice job and some
of the check doowns getting some positive yardage. And so
Jermaine made a great play on the go route, you know,
and stepped up, and so there's there's more that he
can continue to do as well to help us. We

(25:07):
always love to have Tea out there because he makes
a lot of big plays for us. But I think
we're starting to see other guys step up as well,
and we've got a comfort level on them.

Speaker 11 (25:14):
That what happened to them when I believe it was
Jermaine came out of the field quick, and Joe wanted
to go.

Speaker 6 (25:20):
Yeah, So Joe, Joe could see that they were subbing,
and so he wanted to get on the ball and
trap him. And and with twelve guys on the field,
I had already started calling the next play in the personnel,
and so we were subbing based on what I was saying.
And so it's just too you can't communicate. Joe can't
communicate to me on what he's trying to do, and
so he it was just unfortunate he'd caught him subbing

(25:41):
as we were subbing. He didn't see that we had
already put someone on the field. And so the officials
did the right thing. And they have to as soon
as as soon as a single player on our sideline
steps on the field, they have to hold it whether
we sub or not. And so they made the right call.

Speaker 10 (25:54):
I thought.

Speaker 6 (25:54):
Overall, those officials did a good job. They were they
were some of the best communicators I've ever dealt with,
and they made the right in there. And I could
see his frustration because he couldn't see Germaine coming out.
There wasn't Jermaine's fault, it was we were calling them.
It was really nobody's fault. It just was unfortunate that
it caught that way.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
Do you expect for to see more playing time? Yesterday's
snapcount is the way enough.

Speaker 6 (26:15):
Yeah, continue to fight roles for him. I thought he
did a nice job on some of the things where
he got the ball directed towards him and some that
didn't even that were completions elsewhere, and so continue to
find ways to progress him along. It is a good thing.

Speaker 12 (26:29):
What didn't happen on the third and one?

Speaker 10 (26:31):
Was it that you didn't feel like.

Speaker 13 (26:32):
The offensive line guid enough push? Was it Zach Moss
not not making the right for me?

Speaker 4 (26:37):
Like?

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Why did that not work?

Speaker 6 (26:38):
The third and one run we had? I think there's
a lot of things that could have been done better,
you know, I think the whole thing together could have
been better.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
What what's your do you have regret over the fourth
and one?

Speaker 9 (26:49):
Yeah, call you mentioned that yesterday and what did you
feel like stand out most of you about why he
didn't like that?

Speaker 11 (26:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (26:55):
I think on fourth and one for the primary read
to be thrown behind I of scrimmage, and that's where
the ball should have gone with the play call, that's
not the best answer we can give our guys, And
so that's that's one hundred percent on me. Got to
give us a better answer. I like the decision go
for it. I think that point in the game we
needed to go for it and be aggressive in the moment.
There's got to be a better call there that I
can get us to. And so, yeah, one hundred percent

(27:17):
on me.

Speaker 3 (27:18):
There's Zach Taylor taking responsibility for the issues on Sunday. Listen,
nobody's perfect. I don't expect perfection from Zach Taylor, but
when the margin of error is so thin, you can't
make mistakes and do dumb stuff like that in those moments,
my question is, where's Joe Burrow and where's Dan Pitcher

(27:40):
saying hey, no, no, no, no, let's let's do something else here.
Let's not call that play. I mean, maybe because you
in a stupid way burned a time out on third
down before that, you didn't have a choice but to
go with the play that was called. But I just
think that's an as nine play. Zach knows it, Zach
regrets it. You also said in there, Jermaine Burton will

(28:01):
continue to see an expanded role. That's good news. Burrow
spoke highly of Burton postgame. We heard that yesterday on
the show. We talk a little bit about Jermaine Burton
coming up in the show later on as well. But
when we come back, Jay and Brandon and others are
on hold. Five point three seven four nine, fifteen thirty
is the phone number I invite you to call, make
your voice heard, your thoughts on the Bengals, where they

(28:23):
stand and where we go from here at three and
five with the Las Vegas Raiders coming to town on Sunday.
This is since he three to sixty. I'm astin Elmore.
Our one brought to you by our friends at Skyline Chile,
the official Chili of the Cincinnati Bengals, on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnati ZESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 5 (28:43):
You've been listening to Football in the Natti on the
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For Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

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It's off to his right, war shutto edge of the
eighteen into the box.

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Kubo is there.

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You got Kuba back across the mouth of the goal's
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Give me a sod strikes for the Orange and Blue
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Early in the second half. That was the call right
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Tommy g Asade with the goal. It was the only
goal FC Cincinnati needed one nil victor over New York
City FC last night, Round one of the best of three,
Game one of the best of three in round one

(29:49):
with the MLS Cup Playoffs, they will turn right back
around and play at City Field coming up in a
couple of days, and hopefully then FC Cincinnati advances to
the se round. More on that coming up at two
o'clock today. We'll talk to Pat Brennan from Cincinnati dot
Com about that. In the meantime, I want to talk
to you. Five point three, seven four nine, fifteen point

(30:11):
thirty is the phone number, and the phone lines are
open for the rest of our number. One before we
get to Joe Daneman at the start of our number two,
and we start with Jay in Cincinnati. Hello, Jay, what's
on your mind?

Speaker 11 (30:24):
Hey? Hey, what's going on? There's a couple of things
go on. One now, everybody in the Tri States remembers
when the Reds paid Joey Bottle all that money and
at Hams Tronto and the Bengals they go out and
they give Joe Burrow fifty seven. Don't you think every
aspect of that football team is gonna look different because

(30:45):
you look, I mean, they can't pay the top defensive
line and anymore now they and they need offensive help.
And on the other side, you got Trey Henderson. He's
always the one rushing about they need to upgrade at
that other defensive end. Don't get me wrong, Hubbard's halfway defense.
But he's not holding must of this year.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
Well, I think that's part of the issue, Jay, is
that they spent a first round pick on Miles Murphy
and he hasn't done anything. Cam Semple hasn't done anything.
One of the two of the guys that they drafted
over the last couple of years for that position to
now retired and out of football completely. They haven't hit
on any draft picks.

Speaker 11 (31:25):
Yeah, and they need to really start upgrading in their
wide receiver roles too. This Irwin guy and Joseph Odge,
those guys. They good slot guys, but they can't really
blow the top off the defense, so they need some upgrades.
And also you can't really overlook when Money Mack missed
that field goal.

Speaker 10 (31:46):
The Bengals had.

Speaker 11 (31:47):
The momentum and that really changed the dynamics of the game. Also,
when they took the momentum back, that momentum just they
was rolling. Everything was going good. He has to start
making those kicks and cut up.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
Yeah, Jay, I agree with you. Thank you for the
phone call. I said that. I think it's the most
overlooked part of the game on Sunday was that drive
prior to McPherson's miss when they had a chance to
score a big play, score on a big play and
it just didn't happen. They stalled out, didn't execute, missed
the block here, Joe missed a throw there, and then

(32:22):
Evan misses the field goal, and you could feel it,
if I know. There's been a lot of debate lately
about whether or not momentum is real and whether or
not momentum exists. Well, I believe it exists, and I
believe you can feel it in a stadium. And in
that moment, I felt the pendulum swing the other way
back towards Philadelphia, and then they were able to score
on that ensuing drive. So yeah, those sorts of things. Again,

(32:45):
I try not to repeat myself too much, but complimentary football,
it is a prerequisite for winning championships. The Bengals do
not do it. The defensive lines no good, the offense
is inconsistent, and the special teams has been a disappointment,
not great. Let's go to Brandon in Indianapolis. What's up, Brandon?

Speaker 4 (33:04):
Hey, Aten, how are you? I'm good man, I'm good too.
You guys do a great job. And thanks for giving
Tony and Tony take the day off where now it
needed it, didn't it. Yeah, But anyway, you know, I
think with the Bengals, I think we really expected better

(33:25):
expectations this year, and I don't know, something just not right.
It's something's just not click. And I don't know if
it's a locker room. I don't know if there's still
the servance and distractions about Chase not getting.

Speaker 10 (33:35):
What he wanted.

Speaker 4 (33:37):
The plein about it is. And I know Tony brought
this up a couple of weeks ago. Maybe we could
go do you think about trade and t Higgins? I mean,
I know this, I don't think the season's over yet,
but if you lose to the Raiders, you could probably
say coffin nails on the season. I mean, that'd be
the wrong way of saying coffin nails. But you can't
lose to the Vegas Raiders. But man, it's a serving
we haven't won at home. But then then you know,

(33:59):
it's like you see what the Sixers have done with
Joel NB, the Paul George and whatnot in those different sports,
but Joel Eb's not playing. I mean, you know that.
I just I know these guys want their money, and
I know we alwaysalk you should spend your money wisely,
but do you really want to pay te Higgins a
bunch of money He's gonna spend half of the time
on the shelf.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
Yeah, And I think that was a part of the
decision that to franchise Tag. I mean, I think that's
gonna be a part of Tea's story moving forward. I
don't know that there's gonna be teams somebody's gonna pay
him a lot of money, but it's never gonna be
the money that we thought he was on pace to
get at one point, because he's just injured too much
and these soft tissue injuries that have a way of
lingering can hurt him. When it comes to trading him,

(34:40):
you know, I think they have to seriously look at
the possibility of doing that. I don't think they will
a couple of reasons. Number One, if you're gonna trade him,
you have to because he's on a franchise tag. He
has to agree to a contract extension with that team,
so that seems unlikely. Number Two, the Bengals again compensatory
pick from him when he leaves, so they're already going

(35:03):
to get value from him no matter what, at least
in their mind's value for him from him. And number three,
I think they're going to beat the Raiders on Sunday
and be four and five and be close enough to
in their mind justify keeping him around and trying to
make the playoffs. And you know I can understand all
three of those, right.

Speaker 4 (35:22):
Well, you know, I just I don't think he'll be
here next year. I mean I don't. I could be wrong.
I don't think they're Bengals gonna resigned to you.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
No, I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (35:33):
Well, Austin, You're always doing a great job, and I
appreciate your professionalism and to talk back to everything you
guys do. I really love this show and you have
a blessed amen.

Speaker 3 (35:41):
Brandon, you too, Thank you, man. I really appreciate that.
That is Brandon in Indianapolis checking in and in Indianapolis
Anthony Richardson. Man, A lot going on there, isn't there?
Uh yeah, you know, the Higgins thing. I think one
of the concerns kind of to piggyback on the opening
segment that I have with Zach, and I'm slowly leaning

(36:05):
in that direction of being frustrated with Zach to the
point where it's like, come on, man, like it's indefensible.
And one of the issues is the offense without T.
Higgins is not as it's borderline inoperable, and that again
is part of the reason why I feel like the

(36:25):
Joe and Zach combination isn't necessarily going to work, and
that maybe they do need a different play caller or
a different head coach or a different voice or something
along those lines. That's why I'm leaning in that direction,
but you know when when the offense. I will say
this though, in the games without Higgins this year, he

(36:47):
got hurt on a Thursday and a Friday. The game
plan is already in essentially at those two times, and
then he gets hurt. It's hard to adjust that quickly.
That's an excuse that I'm making, but I do believe
it's fact. The problem is that the offense relies so
much on the top players in it, Jamar Chase and

(37:08):
t Higgins to win consistently one on ones. There's not
enough creativity to scheme those guys open at times. There
are plenty of times where it happens and the protection
breaks down, or Joe checks it down or gives up
on the play, or sometimes he's flushed out of the
pocket or whatever it might be. Like. You can search

(37:29):
through the film and find those moments where they win
and it should be a big play, but something happens
and it doesn't. There need to be more answers in
the offense for the quarterback. I think is the direction
that I'm going. And I think Joe, if we're allowed
to criticize Joe Burrow, he's playing out of his mind,
he's playing really well. There were two or three plays

(37:51):
on Sunday where he checked the ball down quicker than
he should have. He had the protection, he had the time,
he would have had Giseki on a wide open one,
would have had Chase on a wide open one, and
he got the ball out quick. And Joe's always talking
about finding completions, and that's great and that should be
part of what you do as a quarterback. But he

(38:15):
has not necessarily, in my opinion, fully functioned the offense,
and especially on Sunday, missed a couple of those. But
you cannot expect perfection. Nobody is perfect. There's just a
disconnect from top to bottom. And I truly feel that

(38:35):
the issues with the twenty twenty four Bengals are not
on the offense. Zach to me, is low hanging fruit.
He's an easy target. To me, it's the fact that
the defense, which sucked last year sucks again. There's been
no development, no progression on that side of the ball,
and as we know, Zach doesn't really spend a lot

(38:57):
of time over there. He's an offensive guy. He calls
the offense. So I put it on Ana Arrumo and
Betcher and Hobby and Kovacs and Burks and whatever other
guys they got on the defensive coaching staff their development.
When you spend as much draft capital as this team
has on defense and you are not getting that sort

(39:19):
of production that you need, especially when you are in
this part of the Borough contract, it can wreck a season.
And I feel like that's the biggest thing. I don't
think the offense is why they lost on Sunday. I
don't think the offense is why they've lost any games
this year, with the exception of the Patriots game. And

(39:41):
it blows my mind that so many people are calling
for Zach's job. I think there's legitimate questions. I'm willing
to say that, but blaming it all on Zach, to me,
that just doesn't seem right. We'll take a break and
be back. This is since he three to sixty, ESPN
fifteen thirty.

Speaker 14 (40:00):
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Speaker 5 (40:52):
Coverage starts Sunday morning at nine on ESPN fifteen thirty,
the official home of the Bengals.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
Since He three to sixty ESPN fifteen to thirty. A
few minutes from now, Joe Danavan Fox nineteen, we'll stop
by better known as the Dean from nineteen Joey D.
But we've got time for another phone call, and we'll
talk to a different Joe, Joe in Moro. Hi, Joe,
what's up? Hey?

Speaker 11 (41:25):
How's it going?

Speaker 3 (41:26):
Good man?

Speaker 16 (41:29):
I personally think everybody's just overreacting right now. I think
the Bengals are going to make the playoffs. I think
that they had some rough injuries at the beginning and
that you know, all they gotta do is win one
of the three between the two Steelers games in the
Baltimore Ravens game, and I think they'll win the rest.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
Why do you feel that way?

Speaker 10 (41:53):
Uh?

Speaker 16 (41:54):
Well, I mean Burrow is a lot better as the
season goes on, and the defense better as the season
goes on. I mean, every year, it seems like we
go through this process where we start slow and finish
almost undefeated at the end, like we win a bunch
of games in a row, and I feel like this

(42:15):
year's gonna be the same. I mean, we have a
great defense. I think, you know, it hasn't showed yet,
but I think we've got the pieces in place.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
Joe, did you hold on, Joe, did you just say
the Bengals have a great defense.

Speaker 16 (42:31):
I think it's going to be I mean.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
Why do you Why do you think that?

Speaker 16 (42:38):
Because I think we've got a lot of young guys
that are getting better every single week. Like I think
Jenkins is only getting better. McKinley Jackson's only getting better.
DJ Turner is only getting better. You know, I still
think that Battles, you know, gonna step up, you know,
as the gay season goes on.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
Yeah, I don't know, Joe quite Frankly, I have no
idea what games you're watching. I disagree with just about
everything you just said.

Speaker 16 (43:09):
I mean, that's fair enough. You can disagree with me
if you'd like. But I mean, it's happened multiple years.
I mean, you can't say that we haven't just hasn't
happened multiple years already.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
The defense has been terrible for two years in a row.
That the years that you're referring to the defense was
much better.

Speaker 11 (43:31):
Yeah, but we.

Speaker 3 (43:32):
Had veterans at that time, correct, and you don't have
them now. There's no veterans to lean on on this
team that have played well. Von Bell has been awful.

Speaker 16 (43:44):
Well, I know That's why I said I think Battles
getting better.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
He's not. He statistically is not getting better. That's the problem. Nobody,
None of those young guys are getting better.

Speaker 16 (43:56):
I mean, it's all about the players getting trust in
one another. I mean, a defense is all about doing
your job and trusting everybody else to do theirs. And
you know, obviously, when you've got a bunch of young players,
you know, they're they're going to try to do too much.
Like Miles Murphy on one play last week, he just

(44:17):
tried to do too much. I mean, he's a great player,
but he's trying to do too much. A lot of
these young players are just trying to do too much,
and that's you know, typical of a young defense. But
I feel like against the Giants and the Browns, you know,
they were starting to trust each other.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
You know, And then do you think it has any
anything to do with the fact that it was the
Giants in the Browns?

Speaker 16 (44:42):
I mean sure, yeah, I mean obviously Watson and Jones struggled,
but at the same time, like we were getting a
lot more pressure. Uh, it'll starting to get more pressure.
I see Rinkin starting to you know, get a push
more push in the ron. Miles Murphy's looking better every

(45:03):
week in my opinion. I mean, he's still trying to
do too much here and there, but he's he's really
stepping up. And the defensive line helps everything. If everybody
can trust the defensive line to do their job, everybody
else can just focus on their job. And that's I mean,
it's a trust game and that's all the beangals need
to do is trust each other.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
I mean, all right, Joe, I'm up against the clock.
I appreciate your phone call. Thank you, no problem. That
dude's been in the darkness doing IYU hosco with Aaron Rodgers.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Joe Danim's next ESPN fifteen thirty, Online at ESPN fifteen
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Speaker 2 (45:55):
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Speaker 1 (45:56):
Groups since E three to sixty about Cincinnati. I'm Cincinnati,
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Speaker 17 (46:06):
E all Day.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
Hi, Hello, welcome in our number two of since E
three to sixty. Here on ESPN fifteen thirty. Austin Elmar
with you today, with you until three o'clock, Tony back
tomorrow and talking now to our friend Joe Daniman, who
joins us every single Tuesday. Hi, Joe, how are you?

Speaker 2 (46:33):
I gotta tell you Austin the name part time Pipe
almost made me run off the road when I was
driving earlier.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
On It's been one of our favorite developments that our
our listeners have come up with because the guys just
never here.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Hey, Tony is listening our best to him. Boy, his
voice was was going on pretty quick Sunday morning when
I was driving into work to go to the game.

Speaker 10 (47:00):
Or he wouldn't be.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
There on Monday, but God love him, he was there.
He shot tried to play through it.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
I commend him for that, Yes I do too. I
give him a pass on today, but you know, just
in the in the spirit of the show, got to
rough him up a little bit. How do you explain
the Bengals?

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Okay, obviously it's nuanced, and I think I think the
conversation right now Austin is everybody trying to assign blame
right for a three and five start, and especially for
Sunday's performance where I think at one point after the
Bengals were up ten to three, they were outscored the
rest of the game thirty four to seven, and it
looked like a team of the fourth quarter who let

(47:41):
go of the rope and let Philadelphia do whatever they want.
And I think everybody right now at three and five
kind of has a feeling that we've seen enough of
this football team to have some measured thoughts on what
they are and what they project to be for the
rest of the season. And I think with the disappointment
of three and five, people are trying to assign blame,

(48:03):
and certainly, as you put it, the low hanging fruit
is to always blame the head coach, and Zach is
not without blame, but also is the front office. They're
there to blame with with the with the drafts, with
with the talent they acquired in the offseason, people they
handpicked to come back to Cincinnati and play with this team.

(48:24):
And then I also think, also, uh, you know, if
we're gonna blame the coaches, if we're gonna blame the
front office, I think there needs to be a finger
pointed at some player performances on Sunday as well. I mean,
Trey Hendrickson has been one of the best players in
the NFL and he was ghosted on Sunday by Fred
Johnson and hack tip to Fred Johnson, but a great
football game, but uh, you know, Trey Hendrickson doesn't usually

(48:46):
go an entire game with his his entire defense only
getting three pressures the entire game on jail. It hurts.
I challenge people to go back and look at one
play in particular, and it's the long has to Devonte
Smith's and look at the effort of Sheldon Rankins on
that play. Now, Sheldon's being double teamed out of the play.

(49:07):
But if you're a professional football player and the standard
is effort, the standard is that you play as a pro.
That effort on that play wasn't good enough. And he's
one of the guys they hadn't picked in the offseason
to come in and be a difference maker on the
defensive line. And this isn't the single out Sheldon Rankins.
But I think this goes back to the big issue

(49:29):
with the team is their ability now in this era
of paying Joe Burrow and going to have to pay
a Jamar Chase, of making smart decisions in free agency.
And this offseason felt like a complete whiff from the
front office, the way they dealt with Jamar, the way
things went with Tea, and then the people they targeted

(49:49):
and signed to help this defense. They're not any better
than they were last year. And then they saw last year.
Even Joe said it in his last press conference of
the year, He's like, even if I was healthy, this
was not that team. We were not going to be
a super Bowl contending team, and so they had an
off season to try to fix it, knowing Joe was
coming back and going to be ready, and he's done
his part this year. Just whether it's coaching, whether it's

(50:12):
front office, whether it's players, everybody is a signed blame.
But I still think the big, big black stain on
this season was an offseason that was a mess.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
Yeah, And that's the thing that I'm struggling with because
I do feel like they've tried and I do feel like,
you know, a couple of years ago, when you go
to the Super Bowl, in the AFC Championship Game in
back to back years, that's in no small part due
to the things that they did in the offseason that
were successful. Is that still going to be their mentality

(50:45):
moving forward if they have to shell out a lot
of money to Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Yeah, I think it's important in conversations like this to
be measured and to be clear headed and understand that, yeah,
if you're going to, you know, throw arrows and throw
rocks and criticize said that, also, there are times in
the front office should be praised for the way they
did attack that offseason, for the way they saw this
roster coming together with Joe Burrow and understanding what he

(51:13):
was by drafting Jamar Chase, and anybody can anybody can
draft Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase, right, I mean the
Bengals fell into that number one overall pick, greatest college
football season of all time. And then the next year
to have a top five pick and to have Jamar
Chase fall on your left. Anybody can get them. But
they did get them. And then they saw the window, right,
they saw the window of the Joe Burrow rookie contract

(51:35):
in the amount of money they could spend in free agency.
So hack Kip to the Bengals. They went for it.
They got to Mike Hilton's, they got the Cheetos, they
got the DJ Readers and the Bond Bells and the
Trey Hendricksons, and they loaded up this defense and that
was a major reason why the Bengals went to a
Super Bowl and then went to an AFC Championship the
next year. Now, the question is this, the question is

(51:58):
are they equipped in their front office now when they're
playing with one hand tied behind their back financially because
of the massive contracts they have to pay for a
quarterback in a wide receiver. Are they equipped to target
the right players in the draft, target the right players
in free agency? Still the holes with the right players.

(52:20):
So far, They've had one off season of trying to
do that in this new world of paying Joe what
they have to pay, and it wasn't good enough. It
was a whiff. And so yeah, I think they do
deserve credit for what they've built during the window where
they had Joe under a rookie contract. It's still to
be determined if they can do it in this new

(52:42):
world where they have to pay their top two stars
at market value and eat up so much of their tap.
So I'm skeptical. I think anybody should be skeptical that
they can do it because they've had one swing at
it and they missed. But they get another swing that's
coming off season, and I still think that's what this
team needs. Look, I think if you sat here right now, Austin,
it's almost November, the Bengals are three and five. If

(53:04):
you had one hundred dollars, would you bet it on
the Bengals going to the playoffs or finishing with the
losing record? I quite honestly think Lake at this point
right now, they're more likely to finish with a losing
record than they are to go to the playoffs the
way they looked on Sunday against Philadelphia, considering some of
the teams they still have to play. So this team
needs an off season. It's going to come, whether to

(53:27):
make the playoffs or not. And I don't think this
season is salvageable until they make the fixes they have
to make, and that would come in the off season.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
If they do look around and realize that they are
not equipped to enter the offseason and build around Joe
and Jamar with the amount of money that they are
going to pay them, do you think there will be
a commitment to find out or a commitment to figure

(53:59):
out how to get equipped to do that.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Yeah. And I think part of the problem too is
Bengals fans, and I know Bengals fans are sitting here
and here we are in year five of Joe Burrow,
and it feels like there's a fear amongst the fan
base that they're going to waste this elite talent that
comes along once in the generation. When you have this

(54:24):
combination of Joe Burrow, and Jamar Chase, and I think
I think the fear is that they're the front office
is not going to equip these guys with what they need.
Uh to your question, I think there's a lot of
a lot of players on this team. At some point
this season they need to take a long look at
and see what they've got. For example, let's start with

(54:45):
your main burden, right because let's all, let's all be honest,
let's tear the band aid off and talk about this
for real. T Higgins won't be a Bangal next year
unless there's a major upset, and so this team has
to find out what they have to do at wide receiver.
Is Jermaine Burton the answer? Do they have to use
a first round pick next year? Do they have to

(55:06):
make a splash and free agency? They've got what nine
games left here the rest of this season to see
what Jermaine is. And I'm not part of the hive
on Twitter that right now thinks that Jermaine Burton is
being blackballed and not giving every opportunity he deserves. He
will earn his opportunities. That's all he played in the
snaps he played Sunday against Philadelphia. I thought there was

(55:27):
a lot of good I really do, and I think
Zach echoed that on Monday in his press conference when
he said that he's probably going to see more snaps
going forward. So this is part of that process of
now investing in the guys you drafted, especially at that position.
So to answer your question, I still think obviously the
defense is going to be the big talking point for

(55:48):
this team and talent acquisition going forward. But we've seen
this team now without T Higgins in three games this
year and it doesn't look good. So if this team
is going to figure out what they are without Tea
going forward, they need to figure out if your main
Burton is that answer, or if they have to go
into this offseason targeting a high round draft pick. When

(56:09):
I say high round, I say first or second round
wide receiver, or making a splash and free agency. And
I think that has now become a major priority for
this team going forward.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
Bengals ownership and the player personnel department are often described
as cheap, as stubborn, and as stuck in their ways.
When you look at the examples in the past of
an Andrew Whitworth or a Jesse Bates or a DJ
Reader and maybe even in the future of a T.

(56:41):
Higgins and how they have allowed those players to walk
and they've continued to play at an elite level moving forward.
Can those sorts of situations actually change the perspective in
the philosophy of those in the front office when it
comes to team building.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
That's a great question. And you you would hope, you
would hope that the number of examples of players they've
let walk and has come back to bite them and
they have to watch them from AFAR play well with
wakes them up. And I know the Andrew Whitworth clip
was making its way around Twitter last night as I
was scrolling during timeouts of the Monday night football game,

(57:23):
and certainly what Jesse Bates. It always seems like Jesse
Bates plays his best games on the same day when
the Bengals defense plays its worst. Yeah, I would think
that should be a wake up call. And it's interesting
too because the philosophy, at least under Marvin, and we
know Marvin had unique say within the organization that maybe
even Zach doesn't have right now. In his time in Cincinnati,

(57:48):
Marvin was all about drafting, developing, rewarding that that was
their that was their philosophy, that was their blueprint. That's
how they did things that I don't know if that
is changed in recent years with what happened with you know,
obviously Andrew had had time under Marvin, but but Jesse
Bass happening under Zach and some of those players who

(58:10):
have walked and gone on to do great things. But
that's what this is supposed to be. And I think
two and to your point, you and I were talking
on Sunday about the development of players and these young
players they invest high draft picks in. And I've done
this on the show before. I won't I won't do
it again. But if you go back to the twenty
twenty three and twenty twenty two drafts, the Bengals knew

(58:31):
this was coming, right, They knew that Joe Burrow price
tag was coming. They knew that Jamar Chase price tag
was coming. That they had to invest draft picks over
and over and over again on defense. And they used
each of their first three round draft picks each year
on defensive players. And you can look at them. I
don't have to go through the names. For the most part,

(58:52):
they're misses. And the one hit, Cam Taylor Britt has
regressed this season. So the other question is, it's not
just it's not just the front office, it's not just
the scheme from the coaches, it's not just the performance.
It's also the development right of these players, These whose
young guys. They've invested draft picks in that they can
let these veteran guys walk because they're going to draft

(59:13):
their replacements and these guys are going to come in.
And it isn't it striking when Andrew Whitwork talks about
it that they drafted Cedric o'bwagi and Jake Fisher and
told him that they were going to be his replacement.
Does that not give you a peak right now, just
a little bit into their ability to scout talent and
get that right. And that to me would be the

(59:34):
biggest fear of the fan base. Like I said, anybody
can draft Joe, anybody can draft Jamar. When you have
those top five picks, you gotta win drafts in those
second and third round picks. Look at the Kansas City
Chiefs undefeated seven to zero. Their offense is mediocre, they're
okay right now, but ken of their eleven starters on

(59:54):
defense are people they drafted and people they developed. They
saw it coming. Same thing as the Bengals with Patrick Mahomes,
but they've done a much better job of targeting guys
that they can draft and develop and they develop them
into a championship defense.

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
Yeah. I mean, I'm just sitting I'm here. I'm sitting
here with so many different thoughts about like the direction
that this can go. I know, Lance McAllister said he
wrote something on WLW this morning that the Bengals are
closer to a rebuild than they are a super Bowl.
That's a sobering reality for a team that came into

(01:00:34):
this season with the expectation that they can win a
Super Bowl. And I just don't know. It's tough when
it feels like everybody can see it. You can see it,
I can see it, the fans can see it, and
yet there does not seem to be that commitment or
that understanding, or quite frankly, an attitude that they care

(01:00:57):
from the people inside the organization, primary in front office.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Well, the hard thing is, Austin we saw this in
the offseason when they were signing Von Bell and there
was all the vibes in Cincinnati right von Bell's back.
You know, the big hit on jujus Mith Schuster the
play in the eighty Championship that that was Von Bell
three or four years ago. And you know when you
get to the age he's at right now, you know
the athleticism, the speed that that stuff drops. Saw Oh,

(01:01:23):
Gino Stones, they're going to bring him in. Veteran guys
played a lot of football, and we've talked about this
on this show. The idea is that, oh, they're going
to get lined up better. The Bengals are going to
be much better in the thirty seconds leading up to
the play when they get everybody aligned. But it's what
are you doing the four to six seconds when the
ball is snapped and there's a play to be made
on the field. You saw it Sunday the Eagles the

(01:01:45):
deep ball, the one deep shot the Bengals took. You
had a tip pass and a safety who was able
to close ground and be there for a tip pass
and make a great play. Now you can say it's
a lucky play, but the fact that he was fast enough,
athletic enough, had the instincts to get there put himself
in that position on the flip side. Von Bell wasn't
good enough. They take him out of the game. They
put Jordan Battle in and Devonte Smith makes them look

(01:02:08):
like a novice trying to track a deep ball for
one of the biggest plays of the game. We saw
this in the offseason when they made the acquisition they
made Von Bell and Geno Stone to be your starting safeties.
Was not going to be good enough in twenty twenty
four NFL football. I'll admit I thought Sheldon Rankins was
a nice pick I thought this team a nice pickup.

(01:02:30):
I thought he needed somebody in the interior defensive line
to be a difference maker or the pass rush. Maybe
he could be the compliment to go with Trey Henderson.
Hasn't worked out, hasn't fit for whatever reason. But when
those are your big signings, those are the people you're
relying on. To me, it wasn't good enough, and I
understand their hamstrung by what they can pay Now to

(01:02:52):
your point about it might feel like there's this feeling
that the front office doesn't want to win. They went
all in. Yeah, you gotta get credit. They went all
in in twenty twenty one, and it paid off. They
went to a Super Bowl. The next year, they went
to the AFC Championship. So they understood what they had
and Joe and Jamar and what they could do with
them if they've built around them, So you have to

(01:03:13):
give them credit. If they're going to criticize them now,
I will never believe. I will never believe Mike Brown
and the front office doesn't want to win a championship.
From the conversation I had with him every year before
training camp starts, the man is passionate about winning a championship.
There's no doubt in my mind. I just wonder if

(01:03:35):
they're equipped enough from a talent evaluation point to find
the right people to fit at the right price tag
for the right positions at the right time. I just
wonder if they're able to do that now. Lastly, to
Lanti's point about rebuilding, when you're rebuilding with Joe Burrow
and Jamar Chase, you're in a great spot. You're only

(01:03:57):
a few players away. We understand that, and that's why
the word rebuild might be just a little bit too strong.
Retooling right, that has to happen. That has to be
the emphasis this offseason. They've got to get better on defense.
They have to be better about drafting guys that will hit,
and they have to be better about finding guys in

(01:04:19):
free agency that will be impact players. There is not
a single impact player on this defense outside of Trey Henderson.
That's the truth. At this point. There's no game changer,
there's no playmaker, there's no impact player. They've got one,
and someday he was taken out of the game for
whatever reason, didn't play well and you saw what happened.

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
Yeah, and I think rebuilds in the NFL happened very
very quickly, just the way you know it works. And
to have those two, as you mentioned, is obviously a
big deal. And yeah, to clarify, I mean, there's no
doubt in my mind that Mike and Katie and Troy
they want to win desperately. But do you want to
win to the point where you're willing to change your philosophy?

(01:04:59):
And the answer to that question to me was yes
a couple of years ago because of what you just
talked about, the way that they went all in. But
in order to be an elite franchise in the National
Football League, you have to be willing to do things
you're uncomfortable with. You have to be willing to evolve,
and you can't keep trying to force a square peg
into a round hole. It just doesn't work. You can

(01:05:20):
see that across the NFL where teams have shifted, and
I think that's one of the big question marks with
the Bengals. Joe, thank you so much for your time.
You're always way too gracious with it. Thank you for
stopping by. What can Bengals fans look forward to with
your coverage this week on Fox.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
Nineteen Big Week Wednesday night six o'clock, we'll be taping
Bengals now at Newport on the Levee, So we're doing
that six o'clock this coming Wednesday night. You want to
come down there, have a chance to meet some of
the players. And then Sunday the game is on our air,
so we will be going oh am nine to ten
am live pregame show at the stadium. Then the Bengals

(01:06:01):
have their one hour block of programming they produced on
our air ten to eleven. Then we go straight into
the Fox pregame show and then Bengals had won. So
you're looking at Bengals in NFL coverage from nine am
to four pm on Sunday on Fox nineteen.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
Have you ever met Terry Bradshaw.

Speaker 4 (01:06:20):
I have not, No, I have not.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
What about Kurt Menifee have not?

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
They don't leave the studio at When they do leave
the studio, it's you know, they go somewhere outside in la.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
I bet Kurt Minafee would be a good guy to
have a couple of beers with.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
He does seem like that. He can think on his toes. Man,
he's an impressive job.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
All right, Joe, thank you so much.

Speaker 10 (01:06:41):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
We'll talk to you next week.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
See Austin.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
That is Joe Daneman, the Dean Fox nineteen. A lot
of good stuff in there. Man, it's just a tough
spot for Bengals fans to be in. Talkbacks are next
ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Now your chance to win one thousand dollars enter this nationwide.

Speaker 5 (01:07:04):
Keywords coverage starts Sunday morning at nine on ESPN fifteen thirty,
the official home of the Bengals.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
All right, no, come on here, let me hear you
good wild oh world, Oh too, ah fruit.

Speaker 5 (01:07:23):
Let's listen to some tone bags, let's listen to the clouds.

Speaker 18 (01:07:32):
Get me a bundant Suprid Jakes.

Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
We hope those other.

Speaker 5 (01:07:39):
Two down her come backs run wm totally as Come on.

Speaker 18 (01:07:46):
Now, ohhing, come close, to the show.

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
Yeah we got hag right, Hello.

Speaker 5 (01:07:54):
Almost ours over tuck back shut?

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
Oh Rod's well, Rods, Well how about that Red Zip
might be winning off the field. We'll get into some
of their transactions coming up a little bit later on
Terry Francona down in the Dominican Republic hanging out with
Ellie Noelvie and Jamer were on that coming up in
just a little bit. By the way, Terry Francona was

(01:08:20):
at the Bengals game on Sunday. Not a great start
for the guy.

Speaker 19 (01:08:25):
A lot of talkbacks on the Bengals yesterday. I feel
like we didn't show enough love to the Bearcats. You know,
I'm getting older. I've got a daughter now. I can't
get out as much as I used to. So I'm
thankful Scott Saderfield let me dress up as a clown
sitting on my couch all day thinking that he was
gonna put together a winning game.

Speaker 3 (01:08:41):
Point Wow, wow, a Scott Saderfield shot.

Speaker 20 (01:08:45):
I don't know why I do this to myself. Every
week out of the Bengals lose a game on Sunday evening,
I'm mad as a horning. On Monday, it's over.

Speaker 21 (01:08:57):
Tuesday morning comes around, I'm digging out ways to find hope.
I'm digging out scenarios of how they can make the playoffs,
and here I am looking like a clown.

Speaker 3 (01:09:10):
No, no, no, no. That's the beauty of being a
sports fan. You find a way for your to convince
yourself that your team's going to win.

Speaker 22 (01:09:20):
We all know Martin Short, the comedian, and you know
his latest commercials him going through a bookstore and he's
pointing and going, didn't read that one, didn't read that one.
I just wonder when Zach's watching these five and two
and six and two teams and on TV scoring can't execute.

Speaker 9 (01:09:43):
That, can't do that, can't pull that one off?

Speaker 23 (01:09:50):
Mayor very well, maybe someone confirmed the line I'm seeing
of the Jets minus two versus just want to make
I don't need to go to the eye doctor or
anything like.

Speaker 3 (01:10:02):
Yeah, I saw that one. I think that is more
or less about the defense of the Jets. But since
Robert Salah has gone, they've got one of the worst
defenses in the NFL. So uh yeah, I would hop
all over Houston plus.

Speaker 24 (01:10:15):
Two Austin haink Hill Here, Henry, this is an appreciation
talk box. I'm changing gears because boy, I just appreciate
you and Tony and the whole team that puts this
show on every got dang day. And it's kind of
funny people calling Tony Pike a part timer, even just
in fun. I mean he's traveling the country and pulling

(01:10:38):
all nighters to cover our team. So on behalf of
Talkbox Nation.

Speaker 10 (01:10:44):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:10:45):
We say that about Tony because Tony would say that
about us.

Speaker 7 (01:10:49):
Hello, this is former President Reagan and we are my voice.

Speaker 25 (01:10:56):
It's just a too bad a shame to leave it.

Speaker 8 (01:10:59):
Talk back Today, Yawny, Jimmy Frinije. Here, I think that
the Bengals made an obvious mistake getting rid of Mixon.
And if you're going to get rid of Mixon, I
think you have to replace at least his production level.
Zach Moff never has produced on that level, so I'm

(01:11:20):
not sure where they saw the potential for mass to
be anywhere. But then you let Baltimore sign Derek Henry
for two million dollars, which ranks four hundred and sixty.

Speaker 3 (01:11:30):
I think it's a cap here.

Speaker 8 (01:11:31):
I think it's just as a massive miscalculat.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
Yeah, listen, I think getting rid of Mixon was not
a big deal, and I was glad that the Bengals
did it, and I knew that he would go to
Houston and fit right in and work perfectly in what
they do. The Bengals were trying to go in a
different direction offensively with his skill set compared to what
they wanted out of Chase Brown and Zack Moss. It

(01:11:55):
worked really well the first four weeks of the season.
In the last four weeks, it's stunk. I do not
think they miss mixing.

Speaker 17 (01:12:05):
Hey, Austin, it's Vinny, great job today. Appreciate you. You
know you just never stop. Man, You're the new Seg Dennison.

Speaker 11 (01:12:12):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:12:13):
I got a question, though, man, like, how do you
do it? How do you.

Speaker 17 (01:12:17):
Listen to talkbacks and while you're on the air and
then sabotage them.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
I left one yesterday.

Speaker 3 (01:12:23):
It didn't get played.

Speaker 17 (01:12:24):
Man. My whole day revolves around talkbacks. When I leave one, man,
I share it with my friends and family and then
they don't get played. I'm just depressed.

Speaker 3 (01:12:32):
Man. I can read them, they're transcribed on the page,
and sometimes if I don't think they're any good, or
are they're inappropriate, I won't play them. Sorry for the
double dip.

Speaker 23 (01:12:42):
But when it comes to the family, let's never forget
how many thirty one to one votes are presented to
the thirty two NFL owners and there's only one negative
vote every single time.

Speaker 3 (01:12:54):
Yeah, and you know, part of the thing that frustrates me.
I don't know if I should say it.

Speaker 25 (01:13:04):
Hey, Austin, I saw something on Internet, which you know
doesn't mean it's true. But Joe Burrow's four for four
on quarterback sneaks on fourth down and they're like, oho
for six on first downs to Chase, and they're like,
oh for ten on passes behind the sticks for a

(01:13:24):
first down. I don't know, go figure, No, the O
for six on first downs to Chase. I know that's
not true. I don't know about the other ones.

Speaker 13 (01:13:33):
Yeah, it's Adam Adams, Tony finally collapsed from exhaustion, and
look it's it's not you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
We were all.

Speaker 13 (01:13:42):
Drunk on the punch with the Bengals. But let's not
talk about losers and dumpster fires. Let's talk about FC
who won that match last night, very tough one. So
let's go hope they go to New York on Saturday,
close it out and rest those legs from the next
round of the playoffs.

Speaker 3 (01:14:01):
You are right, Adam, Thank you Austin.

Speaker 26 (01:14:04):
Great job to begin your show this afternoon with the Bengals.
You covered it perfectly from letter A down di z
Tony chlora septic gargoyle wash with their throat Loznes and
also gets some hauls cough drops men Thal two on
them to help numb the throat. Get well soon.

Speaker 3 (01:14:28):
Hear day there you go. Thank you, Jeff.

Speaker 10 (01:14:31):
Audie doing a good job.

Speaker 3 (01:14:33):
Brother, Thank you. Kevin Barnes the.

Speaker 27 (01:14:35):
Blame though, Yes, it's fair to say it starts with
Duke Tobin in the draft process, but doesn't The coaching
staff also get input on the players that they want
to draft. And the thing is when they get them here,
rather th they're hit or misses, it's up to the
coaching staff to try to coach them up and get
the most out of them. I do believe, and I think
that's where the fascination falls in with Burton.

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
We see the potential, we see the upside.

Speaker 10 (01:14:58):
We just want to see him play more.

Speaker 3 (01:15:00):
See what we got who the Yeah, I'm going to
address that in a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
TP fifteen off and Elball.

Speaker 15 (01:15:07):
There seemed to be at least a modicum of disconnect
between the level of talent and the level of execution. Well,
we got super dogs all over the field, but the
execution if so subpaw that it's resulting in losses. If
three winnable games, Boom, that's coaching, and that's the difference
between three.

Speaker 3 (01:15:26):
And five and six and two.

Speaker 15 (01:15:28):
Denver is five and three. Maybe two other people on
that team besides bon.

Speaker 3 (01:15:33):
Nick Boom, Patrick Sirtan and Jonathan Cooper.

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
Hey, it's Scott on a Tuesday. Lord, it's still early
for the Bengals.

Speaker 17 (01:15:42):
But if they lose this weekend to the Raiders, I
think that window will be shut.

Speaker 3 (01:15:50):
Yeah. I think the window has been shut for a
few weeks now. But day dja coming.

Speaker 28 (01:15:56):
Hey, Aten Mark from the Groove, I said it through
week ago.

Speaker 2 (01:16:01):
We kind of started putting it on the back burner.

Speaker 28 (01:16:04):
Because of how was the deef has played againt the
Giants and the Browns.

Speaker 3 (01:16:08):
But it is the.

Speaker 28 (01:16:09):
Giants and the Browns, And after what happened on Sunday,
I still think lou might be the problem. The defense
is not good and again they're not showing any progress.

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
It's just a joke anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:16:22):
Yeah, it just doesn't look like lou is pressing any
of the right buttons like he used to. Hey, out
is Joe from KC.

Speaker 29 (01:16:30):
The reason I blame Zach more than the front office
is I think the head coach has to have a backbone. Ultimately,
it all falls on him, right so as they're going
out in free agency, as they're drafting people, he needs
to be front and center saying yes or no, And
if it's a no, he needs to absolutely make his
voice heard and accepted. I just think so much of

(01:16:52):
it falls on him. And then with the personnel you
are given, you just got to know how to use.

Speaker 3 (01:16:56):
Them well, Joe. I know for a fact on a
couple of occasions where Zach has done that and outlined
thoroughly his thoughts, and that doesn't always translate to that
decision being made. Sometimes it does, and it has other
times it hasn't. And he can have a backbone, he

(01:17:16):
can stand up for what he believes in, he can
make his case. That doesn't mean that his bosses are
going to go through with it.

Speaker 30 (01:17:24):
Hey Austin, talk back matters guy, Hey, you're wrong today.

Speaker 3 (01:17:27):
I'm just going to tell you you're wrong.

Speaker 30 (01:17:29):
You said something about the Bengals and their defense and
all that stuff. The Bengals are twenty second in payroll
on their defense. I know they're not paying the defense.
They're putting all the money in the offense. And that's great,
but then you get what you get, and I don't
think they're talented enough on the defensive side. Coach wise,
I like a rumo, but I just think there's something missing.

Speaker 3 (01:17:51):
But I disagree with you anyway, have a great day.
Well that's kind of the point, is that there they've
got all these draft picks and young players that were
supposed to develop into make a step forward, and they haven't.
No one said they spend a lot of money on defense.
Everyone knows it's all going to the offensive side. That
was the outline of the plan. But now you've got
all these guys as you've spent draft capital on and

(01:18:12):
they're not working.

Speaker 31 (01:18:14):
Tony Audi, what up?

Speaker 32 (01:18:15):
Jacob Here Bengals fart of three and five, It's gonna
be a tough one to climb out. I feel like
they can only lose two more games just they even want.

Speaker 3 (01:18:22):
To try to make a wild card.

Speaker 32 (01:18:24):
H that's gonna be tough to do with the division
games left on the schedule. Not sure if it's time
to move te.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
I hate the scene go.

Speaker 32 (01:18:33):
But after watching somebody like the Zzo Jalari last night, man,
it would be great if the Bengals could land somebody
like that who they let's go.

Speaker 3 (01:18:41):
Yeah, that'd be great.

Speaker 9 (01:18:42):
They ain't gonna do it, hey, Audie double dip, deal
with it. Wow this Joe Collery head the Top Hour
number one said we had a great defense and we're
going to playoffs. That's the mentality of the fan I
have been talking about for the last six weeks that

(01:19:03):
they based all their hopes and dreams on the Bengals
what we used to be and not what we are currently.
It's crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:19:14):
Yeah, I mean, I disagree with the caller that we had,
but also you can't really go off the future. You
don't know what the future holds. You can only go
off the pass and there was enough there to believe
in what the future would be. But this year it
hasn't panned out. And that's a tough reality for fans
to deal with, and clearly Joe is not dealing with
that reality yet.

Speaker 10 (01:19:35):
Joe, you need to come out of the darkness.

Speaker 11 (01:19:37):
Don't know what you're watching.

Speaker 10 (01:19:39):
I agree with YACHTI.

Speaker 18 (01:19:42):
This defensive staff is a mess and some changes need
to be made.

Speaker 10 (01:19:45):
Should have been made before the season.

Speaker 33 (01:19:46):
There's a reason why he hasn't gotten a head coaching job.

Speaker 3 (01:19:49):
I think other general managers see it for what it is.

Speaker 33 (01:19:53):
When you got guys like Rex Ryan out there with
the punch you in the mouth mentality, a lot of
passion for his players and the game.

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
I'm all for it.

Speaker 10 (01:20:02):
Make a change.

Speaker 3 (01:20:03):
Okay, that's interesting.

Speaker 17 (01:20:06):
Hey Alston, it's Annie again. I'm a double dip man
one because you sabotaged me yesterday too. I'm discussed. What
are we talking about? Burton has got to be a
wide receiver of the future. This guy, why are we
giving him a pass? And and Zach Teller passed? The
guy can't learn the playbook? What are we talking about?

Speaker 34 (01:20:28):
We give he.

Speaker 17 (01:20:28):
Wasted another first round draft pick on a wide receiver? Man,
what are we freaking doing?

Speaker 10 (01:20:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:20:35):
Well, if Jermaine Burton wants to be the wide receiver
of future, where you got to do stuff to earn that.
I mean, keep in mind what Nick Saban said about
Jermaine Burton when he was drafted. It wasn't a very
glowing review and From what I've heard, Jermaine is screwed
up off the field over and over and over again,
and that's part of the reason why he's not getting
opportunities on the field. He's been cleaning some of it

(01:20:57):
up and that has led to more chances. But in
the NFL, you don't just walk in and get everything
handed to you, especially when you're a third round pick.
That's not how it works. And I'm not really giving
Zacha pass here. I'm not giving Jermaine pass.

Speaker 35 (01:21:15):
What's up? Brother, Artie mothm notut healthy. That guy just
said it without saying it. The Bengals need a GM.
You're talking about somebody to navigate the talent pool with
perse strings tide because of Burrows contract, because Chase contract
about to come.

Speaker 3 (01:21:32):
You need a general manager.

Speaker 35 (01:21:33):
They need a football person in here to look at talent,
evaluate talent, and pay talent on a better basis than
what they're doing now.

Speaker 10 (01:21:44):
Mo Out.

Speaker 3 (01:21:44):
I agree with you.

Speaker 7 (01:21:45):
Mo Yeah, I thought three four years ago the organization
had turned around, but yeah, not so fast. The Miles
Murphy pick. They needed to hit a defensive lineman with
that first round pick, and it's just not working out.
Cam Taylor Brets going backwards battles. Not as good as

(01:22:06):
I thought he was. I do right, Jermaine Burton, get
him out there as much as pop.

Speaker 3 (01:22:12):
All right, thank you, y.

Speaker 36 (01:22:13):
It's loveling. Happy Tuesday. It's up Austin, well done, holding
down the fort Well, Tony's taking his voice recovery day.
I am pretty impressed, though, I will say I am
impressed with what Moe and Tony did over the weekend
pulling that off. Not a lot of sleep in there,
and for what Dan Horde does basically every week for

(01:22:35):
that matter. Nice one by sec last night. Hopefully they
close it out Saturday in New York.

Speaker 3 (01:22:41):
Oude yitz, thank you and thank you to all of
our talkbackers. That's going to do it for our segment
today when we come back, some breaking NFL news for
football and the Nattie. We gotta get the Pat Brinnan
coming up as well. This is since he three sixty
on ESPN fifteen thirty. Brought to you by Cincey Shirts.
Go to Cincy Shirts dot com. Hi, Christ are like
a moneyback you sucking your wallet? Drush No, but don't fredd. Hey,

(01:23:06):
it's Maulager. Miss anything from my show or from SINCY
three to sixty. The good news is you can get
caught up by listening to what you missed on the
iHeartRadio app or on the podcast page of ESPN fifteen
thirty dot com.

Speaker 5 (01:23:18):
This is Football in the Nattie on the official home
of the Bengals Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:23:25):
Welcome back in football on the Nattie. Austin Elmore with
you on SINCY three sixty. No big breaking Bengals news today,
but two pretty notable pieces of information coming in from
the AFC South. Let's start in Indianapolis. The Colts have
announced that Joe Flacco will be the starting quarterback moving forward.

(01:23:47):
They are benching Anthony Richardson. Richardson was the fourth overall
pick in last year's draft and becomes the second quarterback
drafted in that draft to be benched. Bryce Young, the
number one overall pick, was benched already earlier this season
by the Carolina Panthers. If you remember, Richardson was two

(01:24:09):
for fifteen on Sunday and at one point subbed himself
out and said it was because he was too tired.
I have never understood the hype on Anthony Richardson. I
thought he sucked in college. I thought he would suck
in the NFL. He has and uh not surprising at
all to see his failures. He's just not a very
good player. Meanwhile, for the division favorite Houston Texans, their

(01:24:32):
big free agent acquisition Stefan Diggs has officially suffered a
season ending torn acl For Houston, Diggs is now out
for the season. He is on an expiring contract. He'll
be a free agent coming up in the offseason. So
tough scenes there for Stefan Diggs and the Houston Texans.

(01:24:53):
The big news out of the NFL so far today,
so Joe Flacco will start for the the Indianapolis Colts
on Sunday Night Football this week against Minnesota. All Right,
we'll take a break and be back. This is SINC
three to sixty on the Home of the Bengals, ESPN
fifteen thirty.

Speaker 5 (01:25:10):
You've been listening to football in the Natti on the
official home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
Hey, it's mal Cincy three sixty. Continues on ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 3 (01:25:40):
Sincy three sixty ESPN fifteen thirty. Austin Elmore with you
just a couple of minutes here and then we're gonna
switch over to some FC Cincinnati conversation. The Orange and
Blue victorious last night one nil over NYCFC, game one
of a first of or game one of the best
of three in the first round of the MLS Cup playoffs.

(01:26:02):
We'll talk to Pat Brennan from Cincinnati dot Com about that.
He was there, wrote about it, covers the team each
and every day. We'll see his reaction, and it was
a little interesting. There was not a sellout in that game.
A little bit tough for people to do it on
a Monday night for sure in the playoffs, but still
able to get the job done. Home field advantage for

(01:26:25):
FC to start this, and now they will go to
City Field where they will play the well, they will
play NYCFC at the home of the Mets. So we'll
talk to Pat about those his takeaways from that game
and how they match up moving into Saturday's matchup right
here on ESPN fifteen thirty. All right, so we'll get

(01:26:47):
to Pat when we come back. Orange and Blue, little
football talk on a Tuesday afternoon. You know, I think
I said multiple times that today was Monday. I think
I let that slip. I have a really hard time
with Mondays and Tuesdays. If you've noticed it all, I
always say, uh, yesterday on Tuesdays talking about Sunday. I

(01:27:12):
think I did that earlier. And I also accidentally said
earlier that Trey Henderson got a pay cut, but he didn't.
He got to pay raise.

Speaker 10 (01:27:19):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:27:20):
Yeah, just trying to fire the brain up a little bit.
This is what happens with no Tony. He really is
the glue guy. All right, we'll take a break, we'll
come back. This is since he three sixty on ESPN fifteen.

Speaker 1 (01:27:30):
Thirty, ESPN fifteen thirty, online at ESPN fifteen thirty dot com,
on your phone with the iHeartRadio app, and on hundreds
of devices like Alexa, Google Home, Xbox, and Sono's and
iHeartRadio's day.

Speaker 3 (01:27:45):
Shame Hey, Tony Pike with Tri State mens Health.

Speaker 1 (01:27:48):
This is Pinstation eastco Subs since e three sixty of
About Cincinnati from Cincinnati, spontered in part by Pinstation EASTCA Subs.
Handcrafted hot grilled subs, fresh cut fries and lemonade. It's
all about good taste. Penn Station East Coast Subs order
online today. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 3 (01:28:10):
Hi, Hello, welcome in final hour of since E three
to sixty Today. My name is Austin Elmore, with you
until three o'clock. Tony is out today nursing that voice
that has betrayed him, and he will be back tomorrow.
Looking forward to having the big fellow back. Looking forward
to talking to our next guest. He covers FC Cincinnati

(01:28:32):
for Cincinnati dot Com and does a great job doing so,
and was there last night at the Fortress on the
West End when FC Cincinnati won one nil over NYCFC
in game one of their best of three round one
matchup against NYCFC. Pat Brennan joins us. Now, Hi, Pat,
how are you.

Speaker 18 (01:28:52):
I'm doing great, Thanks a lot for having me on.

Speaker 3 (01:28:54):
Yeah, thanks for being here. Is it safe to say
that that's the FC Cincinnati last night we've been waiting
on seeing for so long, over the last couple of months.

Speaker 10 (01:29:03):
Yeah, yes, yes, that is such a good way to
say it.

Speaker 18 (01:29:09):
You know, there were the trend lines for this team
going into the postseason were pretty concerning, you know, goals
scored for FC Cincinnati going down, goals conceded going up,
and obviously they lost three or four coming down the
last bit of the regular season, but and then, and

(01:29:32):
then the one win they had in that stretch of
four games was against a Philadelphia Union team that didn't
make the playoffs.

Speaker 10 (01:29:39):
You just you just didn't know what to make of
FC Cincinnati.

Speaker 18 (01:29:43):
But you know, now there's a bit of a broader
context in which we can view that Philadelphia game because
it's it's coupled nicely now with last night's performance. And
what we've seen over those two games is timely goal scoring.
In most cases, Cincinnati benefited from a pretty awful own

(01:30:07):
goal by Philadelphia in that last game on October nineteenth,
but timely goal scoring and really good defense, really good defense.
They haven't conceded a goal since the third minute of
that Philadelphia match back on the nineteenth.

Speaker 10 (01:30:25):
So yeah, the defense was a big part of it
last night.

Speaker 18 (01:30:29):
But they also outshot NYFCFC twenty two to three.

Speaker 10 (01:30:35):
Which is pretty staggering.

Speaker 18 (01:30:37):
I mean, twenty two shots for that's about as wide
open and attacking as you could reasonably hope for given
what this playoff format is. So that was quite a Yeah,
I think you might have liked to have seen a
few more goals, but maybe another goal to make it
a little more comfortable to close out the win last night.

Speaker 10 (01:30:55):
But that's nitpicking. Great performance last night.

Speaker 3 (01:30:58):
Yeah, I know that Pat Lunan has been dealing with
a bunch of different stuff this season, and a bunch
of different lineups and all these different competitions, but it
seems like he's been kind of positive over the last
couple of matches the regular season going into the postseason
kind of specifically, what about the defense short up last
night that made them so effective.

Speaker 18 (01:31:21):
Well, so, you know, there are players on the field
who are obviously defenders by trade, you know, right backs,
center backs, but the defense and I like to Austin
as you probably know, I like to talk about soccer
in a way that is accessible to everyone, and it's

(01:31:44):
really you need all eleven players on the field defending
in most cases, it's not just the job of four
or five guys. And the way that players like Luciano
Acosta and some of the goal scorers getting is by
pressing what we call pressing, which is you know, it's
not unlike pressing in basketball. It's just applying more pressure

(01:32:07):
on the team, usually at their end of the field.
So that's a big part of it. The press was
really effective last night, New York City FC had trouble
playing out of their side of the field.

Speaker 10 (01:32:17):
That was good.

Speaker 18 (01:32:18):
But I think, you know, we've finally reached a point
now where FI obviously had to replace Matt Yasca and
Nick Acklan, who they lost to the season to injury.

Speaker 10 (01:32:31):
They replaced those players mid season.

Speaker 18 (01:32:34):
That's a hard thing to do for those new players
to come into that situation.

Speaker 10 (01:32:38):
It's a hard thing for seasons.

Speaker 18 (01:32:39):
Ninety sixisting players to colese with those guys.

Speaker 10 (01:32:43):
But now I think the relationships are formed, the partnerships
are there, and.

Speaker 18 (01:32:52):
It just it looks really smooth and really dominant. Last night,
I asked Roman Salentano, the FC Cincinnati goalkeeper, if it's
kind of my impression that the defense was that much improved?

Speaker 10 (01:33:05):
Was what he was.

Speaker 18 (01:33:06):
Seeing play out in front of him too, and he said, yeah, absolutely.
It's about the press with all even players in the
all ten excluding him.

Speaker 10 (01:33:18):
It's also the relationship those center backs. They're really all
on the same page right now. And I think it's
as simple as that.

Speaker 3 (01:33:27):
Pat, we're losing you a little bit, you're breaking up.
I'm gonna call you right back. Here and see if
we can get a better connection. Yeah. FC Cincinnati with
the win last night over NYCFC and defense has been
a big part of it and a huge reason for
why this team was able to turn it around and

(01:33:51):
win the game against New York City yesterday. Let's go
back to Pat, who I think is back with us now, Pat,
can you hear me?

Speaker 10 (01:34:00):
I can hear you? Fine, Yeah, I'm really sorry about that.

Speaker 3 (01:34:02):
That's all right. You got a little bit, you know,
I don't know what the right description is, but you're
back now. FC Cincinnati wins and Luciano Acosta played a
big role. This guy isn't a finalist for the MVP award.
Do you think that can be something that is kind
of motivating to him as we go into the playoffs?

(01:34:23):
Is he that type of personality.

Speaker 10 (01:34:26):
You're just checking one more time? You can hear me?

Speaker 3 (01:34:28):
Okay, right, I can hear you now?

Speaker 10 (01:34:30):
All right? Awesome? Awesome? Yeah, I don't you know, it
was interesting.

Speaker 18 (01:34:36):
I don't know if that is some I mean, look,
I think when you've gotten an MVP in your back
pocket already from last year, there's probably gonna be a
little bit of a factor. Been there, done that, like
I've already got mine. But I do think that was
an oversight. I do think players, elite players in any sport,

(01:34:56):
are always looking for.

Speaker 10 (01:34:58):
That extra edge to motivate them. I wouldn't be surprised
if it's motivating Luto Acosta right now.

Speaker 18 (01:35:05):
But i'll tell you what and for not he did
play a pivotal role in e f C.

Speaker 10 (01:35:11):
Cincinnati's goal last night.

Speaker 18 (01:35:13):
But I'll tell you when you know interview, he likes
to score goals.

Speaker 10 (01:35:17):
I think he.

Speaker 18 (01:35:18):
Would probably be the first person to tell you he
likes to score them more than assist them, even though
he's very good at both of those things, and those
are obviously very important tasks. And the smile on his
face in the locker room after the game last night,
you would have.

Speaker 10 (01:35:32):
Thought he scored a hat trick.

Speaker 18 (01:35:33):
I genuinely don't remember him being so happy for one
of his teammates being on, you know, being the goal
scorer and him having not scored in the game.

Speaker 10 (01:35:45):
So that was interesting. I noticed that immediately.

Speaker 18 (01:35:48):
So his head must be in the perfect place right.

Speaker 10 (01:35:53):
Now, is what I take away from that.

Speaker 18 (01:35:55):
And yeah, I mean, you know, that was an interesting
play last night. Have to give credit to Emil aside
the goalscorer too, because Luco hit that ball so hard
across the goal mouth and all Emil had to do
was you can look at it one of two ways.
All he had to do was probably get any part

(01:36:16):
of his body on that ball and it's going into
the net lightning fast, but there's also some pain involved
with that. So Luco crushed that pass across the middle
and Emil was there to basically tap it in. But
it was a really heavy play by Luco. And yeah,

(01:36:37):
you need moments like that if you're going to go
on a run in the postseason and any sport, it's
built on moments like that that are special. And I
won't be surprised when Luco is making an impact on
Saturday in New York.

Speaker 3 (01:36:53):
You mentioned the disparity in shots between fc and New
York and it really was like that all night where
FCQ was kind of keeping the pressure on them. What
was the big reason for that in your opinion, and
how do they turn that into a bunch of shots
and a lot of pressure into more than just one goal.

Speaker 18 (01:37:14):
That's a great question, I think, Yeah, I mean, well,
you know, I think in this playoff format, one goal
will do. It's it's not an aggregate scoring system. This
is a kind of a unique format.

Speaker 10 (01:37:29):
All over the world.

Speaker 18 (01:37:30):
This is unique compared to how other leagues across the
globe settled their championships in soccer.

Speaker 10 (01:37:36):
So one goal is good enough.

Speaker 18 (01:37:38):
You know, whether they won by one or five last night,
it counts the same in this format.

Speaker 10 (01:37:44):
So one goal was good enough, but you could.

Speaker 18 (01:37:48):
Like I said, I think more goals would have made
it easier to see out that game and a little
more comfortable, and you always want to give the fans
something to.

Speaker 10 (01:37:58):
Something more to cheer about.

Speaker 18 (01:38:00):
In fairness, f C Cincinnati, I think they were about
as close as you can be to getting that.

Speaker 2 (01:38:04):
Second goal without actually getting it.

Speaker 18 (01:38:06):
You know, Luca Orshano clients won off the post.

Speaker 10 (01:38:10):
There was some other great chances.

Speaker 18 (01:38:12):
U Yak Kubo almost scored around the twentieth minute, really
close chance. So it seems like they're knocking on the door.
And that's also a big improvement for this team. Kind
of a sustained pressure over the full ninety minutes. I
don't remember, you know, the last time the attack looked
that threatening. And this New York CITYFC team is no pushover.

(01:38:36):
You know n y CFC beat FC Cincinnati this month
October second, Yeah, so not that long ago. New York
is a solid team. They they you know, it's I
don't think it's a great matchup for New York City FC,
but in this series. But they're a decent team and
it was just very impressive the attack last night. I

(01:38:59):
think they're close to scoring more than one goal too.

Speaker 3 (01:39:02):
How important has it been, I know he's a finalist
for Newcomer of the Year. How important has Luca Orizano
been to this team and their success so far this year?

Speaker 18 (01:39:12):
Yeah, there's you know, it's hard to say that there
was one or even only two personnel additions for the
twenty twenty four team that kind of made this team.
It's really been a mix of probably four or five
new editions that have helped the team get to this
point and you know, log eighteen wins in the regular season,

(01:39:36):
which is fantastic. But Orishano is definitely, you know, you
could you could fashion an argument for him being the
most important acquisition for this team coming into the twenty
twenty four season. He's so skillful, he's so versatile. You know,
they brought him in as he could play midfield. He

(01:40:00):
could play left back to replace Alvarro Barrial.

Speaker 10 (01:40:03):
Fans might remember that name.

Speaker 18 (01:40:04):
He was a huge contributor last year, and actually they
were both both players were Argentinian. They were formerly teammates
at a club in Argentina, so there for a lot
of reasons, people thought that he would step in and
be kind of, you know, alv Ro Barrial two point oh, Well,
he's really been alv Ro Barrial three point oh, four

(01:40:26):
point oh. He once he found his footing at f
C Sinnati, and it did take time. Early in the season.
You could see, you could just see on his face
and the way he was playing.

Speaker 10 (01:40:38):
He was working it out in his head.

Speaker 18 (01:40:39):
Even when things weren't going perfectly, he was working it out.
He was getting there, and once he got there, you know,
the goals started.

Speaker 10 (01:40:48):
Flying in for him.

Speaker 18 (01:40:49):
He's great pushing the tempo, making f C Cincinnati not
just a team that can score both goals, but can
hit you hard and fast on the counter attack. And yeah,
Luca Orshano has been vital. He's actually technically he's here
on loan from Vasco to Gama team in Brazil. But

(01:41:12):
I think the conversations about c FC Cincinnati has the
contractual right to purchase his contract on you know, make
him a permanent f C Cincinnati player, so that.

Speaker 10 (01:41:22):
He wouldn't go back to Brazil.

Speaker 18 (01:41:23):
And I think Pat Newton and Luca both kind of
let slip in August that that conversation started a long
time ago. I think they like to play that stuff
closer to the vest. But FC Cincinnati would like very
much to keep Luca in this setup here, and I
think that's gonna happen. So EPC Cincinnati fans can enjoy

(01:41:45):
him for what he is right now.

Speaker 10 (01:41:46):
But also know that he's a young player.

Speaker 18 (01:41:49):
He'll probably be here in the future and there's kind
of more great stuff to come from him.

Speaker 3 (01:41:55):
Pat Brennan covers FC Cincinnati for Cincinnati dot Com. Does
a great job. Pat, thanks for making some time for
us here today. What's the best way for listeners to
follow along with your coverage?

Speaker 18 (01:42:08):
Yeah, Cincinnati dot Com is where all the stories go,
no matter what summoned up in the paper sometime, but
they're all on Cincinnati dot Com. And I love to
shot back with people on x slash Twitter, So there.

Speaker 10 (01:42:21):
We go, at pe Brandanq.

Speaker 3 (01:42:24):
Fantastic stuff. Pat, thanks so much. Man, have a great day.

Speaker 10 (01:42:28):
Yeah, thanks a lota, I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:42:30):
That is Pat Brennan, Cincinnati dot Com beat reporter there
since twenty sixteen and a lot of great coverage on
his Twitter at p brannan e n Q. I certainly
do recommend it. FC Cincinnati back in action on Sunday,
or excuse me, Saturday against NYC FC. We'll take a break,

(01:42:51):
we'll come back. Breaking NFL news coming to you when
we return right here on the Home of the Bengals,
ESPN fifteen.

Speaker 1 (01:43:00):
Now three sixty is back on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati
Sports Station.

Speaker 3 (01:43:15):
Welcome back since e three to sixty ESPN fifteen thirty.
My name's Austin Elmore. No Tony Today, Tones back tomorrow.
Moeggar coming up three to six this afternoon. You just
heard the promo. It's going to be a beat Ups.
Those Tuesday beat Ups shows with mo were always fun.

(01:43:39):
Looking forward to listening to that. Meanwhile, some more NFL
news is happening, some good, some bad, depends how you
view this. This is not good news for the AFC
North and really the rest of the AFC. The Baltimore
Ravens have traded for Carolina Panther wide receiver Deontay Johnson.

(01:44:03):
Deontay Johnson is now a Carolina Panther, and you might
be wondering, well, what was the compensation for a good
young player even though he's on an expiring contract. Well,
the Panthers and Ravens are swapping fifth and sixth round
picks in next year's draft, So and now my watch

(01:44:25):
is yelling at me my apologies. The Panthers are getting
the ravens twenty twenty five fifth round pick, and the
the Ravens are getting the panthers twenty twenty five sixth
round pick, So they're swapping fifths and sixth for Deontay Johnson.
Baltimore continues to do everything in its power to go

(01:44:50):
after the Super Bowl to make their team better. They've
got some issues still on defense and primarily when it
comes to rushing the passer. We'll see if they make
any moves there. But so far this year, Deontay Johnson
has been acquired by the Ravens. Amari Cooper has been
acquired by the Bills. Davante Adams has been acquired by
the Jets. DeAndre Hopkins has been acquired by the Chiefs.

(01:45:17):
Wonder what Duke Tobin's doing right now, don't you. And
while we're on the topic of wide receivers, I posted
this yesterday and I just don't I'm having a hard
time with this. I don't recall this ever happening. And
you can follow me on Twitter at Audiel Moore a

(01:45:38):
U T y E L M O r E. And
I asked the question because I know that not everybody
who listens to this show is as chronically online on
Twitter as I am, but there are a lot of
people who are. And I see when I'm on the
quote unquote Bengals Twitter, the constant obsession with Jermaine Burton

(01:46:01):
that this guy should be playing more, and he should
be doing this, and he should be doing this and
and and Jermaine Burton is being blackballed by the coaching
staff and all this other stuff. And I cannot remember
a rookie player with so much support than Jermaine Burton.

(01:46:23):
I don't know what it was about when they drafted him.
And maybe when they released the video and Zach being
is fired up, or maybe people watched his highlights at
Alabama and you thought, wow, this guy is going to
come in and be a game changer for this offense,
and then he wasn't and he hasn't been, and there's

(01:46:44):
been a lot of stuff for why hear Joe Daniman
earlier say he does not believe that Jermaine Burton is
being blackballed by the Bengals coaching staff. Joe is down
there every day, Joe covers this team, Joe talks to
these people, and there's no belief. But when you think

(01:47:05):
about the fact that this guy with this raw talent
and this ability that he has that can help the
Bengals and at times has helped the Bengals this year,
why he's not getting on the field. If he's that good,
why do you think it is that he's not getting
on the field, That would be my question. And I

(01:47:28):
do believe that he is going to be a contributor
for this team and he is trending in the right direction.
We heard Zach say that earlier today when we played
the press conference. And Jermaine got more snaps this week,
and obviously part of that is the fact that t
Higgins isn't playing, but there were more snaps, more opportunities,

(01:47:50):
he got targeted. He had a nice catch on a
forty one yarder. I think it's twice now he's had
a forty one yard reception. But there seems to be
this belief that the Bengals are not playing Jermaine Burton
because they don't think he's good enough. And the fans

(01:48:10):
are all saying he needs to be playing because clearly
he's a game changer and clearly he can open up
this offense even more, and to an extent that could
be true, he could have a special role on this offense.
But the Bengals drafted that guy in the third round

(01:48:30):
and Zach Taylor was fist pumping and excited like a
maniac when they made that selection. If you look at
those two pieces of information, those two facts, what makes
you think that the Bengals ever planned on getting Jamar
or Jermaine Burton to Cincinnati and not playing him. Clearly

(01:48:54):
there would then be factors as to why he can't
get on the field. And when andre Yosi Vash, who
I believe is a wonderful person, cannot get separation drops,
open passes, can't really excel on the field outside of
the scramble drill, why do you think it is that

(01:49:15):
he continues to get opportunities in Jermaine Burton doesn't. Why
do you think that is? Do you think the Bengals
just drafted the guy and said, all right, we're gonna
stash him away and we'll see what he can do
next year. That's not what this organization does. Maybe that's
what Marvin Lewis did years ago. That's not what Zach does,
That's not how they do this. So clearly there has

(01:49:37):
been a disconnect from the moment this guy got here
to where we're at now. Joe has said it. All
you have to do is read through the lines. Al
Michaels basically said it on television. The reps in training
camp have told you quite a bit. And I put
this out there yesterday. Why are people on this app

(01:49:59):
so obsessed with Jermaine Burton. I've never seen a Bengals
rookie outside of Burrow with an immediate cult like following.
And most of the responses have been, well, he's a
third round pick and he's going to be the guy
who takes t spot next year, so he needs the
draft or he needs the reps in the development. Well,

(01:50:21):
this year was never about Hey, this is going to
be the guy to replace Tea next year. This year
was always about who gives us the best chance to win,
because the Super Bowl is the goal. Now where we're
at here in October, sneaking up on November and at
three and five, and the playoff's a long shot and

(01:50:41):
this team probably not going anywhere. Maybe it makes more
sense to give Jermaine Burton more snaps and certainly as
the season goes along. But there's a reason why the
guy played so much in preseason and has played very
little now because he wasn't doing the right things off
the field to warrant legitimate looks on the field, and

(01:51:05):
when he did get on the field, he was unprepared
and did not adequately know or understand the playbook. It
doesn't take much to figure that out. And I was
thinking about this today, the things that Nick Saban said

(01:51:25):
about Jermaine Burton when he was drafted. I know we
played this in April when this pick came through. This
is from the ESPN broadcast from the night Jermaine Burton
was drafted. Right after they picked him. Here's a little
bit of that clip, including his head coach at Alabama,
Nick Saban.

Speaker 18 (01:51:46):
And now Nick Saban just passed Tom Osborne for the
third most picks by Common draft era.

Speaker 33 (01:51:54):
What do wet season is a tremendous competitive He's got.

Speaker 10 (01:52:00):
Great quickness, He's got really good speed.

Speaker 33 (01:52:03):
He can commit and out of a break he can
beat man the man. I mean, I really really like
this guy. The number one thing that he needs to do,
and I think emotional maturity is the best way to
say it, is do the right things all the time.

Speaker 10 (01:52:17):
He does the right things on the field.

Speaker 33 (01:52:20):
He knows the importance of what he has to do
on the field. He wants to be a player, that's
all he thinks about. Yeah, but you got to do
the right things in your life all the time so
that you can do the best things that you can
do on the field and be the best.

Speaker 10 (01:52:32):
You can be.

Speaker 3 (01:52:33):
Yeah, coach, I was going, that's Nick Saban talking about
Jermaine Burton. That was in April. It was six months ago.
Six months ago, we were having those conversations about Jermaine Burton.
You think that all of a sudden he just turned
it around everything's different. Probably not. I mean, it's been

(01:52:57):
pretty clear there's a slow ramp up process that's happening
right now with Jermaine Burton. He's slowly earning those reps.
But I just look at him not playing and it
mainly being his own fault for not playing, as another
chance for people to attack the coaching staff that I

(01:53:19):
don't necessarily think is warranted. This team, and part of,
you know, the conversation about them moving forward has been
their inability to hit on draft picks. I think most
people right now would still feel pretty good about this
current class, the rookie class this year. You feel like
that was a step in the right direction. Well, in

(01:53:41):
order to do that, the Bengals changed their philosophy on
some stuff. They drafted a guy that was injured, they
drafted a guy like Burton with off field issues. They
drafted dudes that they the typical athletic profile they haven't
been drafting. They've altered little bit, and maybe that's gonna

(01:54:01):
end up being very beneficial for them. We don't know yet.
But the constant obsession with Jermaine Burton should be on
the field is confusing to me, especially when the entire
conversation that I should say, most of the responses I've

(01:54:22):
gotten have been, well, he's gonna be the guy to
replace t Higgins, that's good, but is he helping the
team win right now? Can he do that? If he
had the trust of Joe and Zach, don't you think
he'd be on the field. And do you think that
these little snippets that get brought up in the media

(01:54:46):
and get leaked out in these rumors, do you think
people are just making that up or do you think
that comes from somewhere? That would be my question. We'll
take a break, We'll be back. Phone lines are open five, one, three, seven, four, nine,
fifteen thirty if you want to call in and be
a part of the Show'm Austin Elmore. This is since
he three to sixty on the home of the Bengals,

(01:55:06):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 5 (01:55:09):
ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Bengals.

Speaker 3 (01:55:16):
Since he three sixty ESPN fifteen thirty, I'm Austin Elmore,
Ben talking Bengals, been talking Little Jermaine Burton. Baltimore Ravens
made a move today. They acquired Deontay Johnson wide receiver
from the Carolina Panthers. Meanwhile, other wide receiver news to

(01:55:38):
Fon Diggs done for the season, Torn acl for the
Houston Texans, and some very sad news to report here
Tarverius Ward, the defensive back for the San Francisco forty
nine ers. They announced today that his one year old
daughter has passed away suddenly. So that is some terrible

(01:56:02):
news for Tarvarius Ward and his wife Monique, so certainly
prayers up for them. It's been a tumultuous season for
the San Francisco forty nine ers, and clearly that is
just an unimaginable pain for him. So a lot of
news good, bad, and ugly in the NFL today. We've
still got some time for phone calls before we get

(01:56:24):
into quick hits in the next segment. In the meantime,
let's do that. Let's talk to Brandon in Cincinnati. What's up, Brandon?

Speaker 10 (01:56:32):
Hey, how you doing?

Speaker 11 (01:56:33):
Man?

Speaker 3 (01:56:33):
I'm all right.

Speaker 37 (01:56:35):
First off, I just want to say respect and prayers.

Speaker 4 (01:56:38):
For the War family.

Speaker 3 (01:56:39):
Yeah, that's tough.

Speaker 37 (01:56:41):
I also want to say fans are probably so anxious
about Jermaine Burton because we have eyes and we can
see that he's fast and can get in and out
of breaks good hands, and they're probably just wondering, like, man,
what's going on with the rest. But and we also
see guys like Trent Irwin and Yoshi getting snaps and
can they help us right now? That's what we're thank you,

(01:57:04):
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:57:04):
I think it was interesting. Jamar said something last week.
He was asked how the wide receiver room is different
this year from years past, and Jamar said that there's
a lot more being asked of the young players. And
I think that's part of the transition to Dan Pitcher
as the offensive coordinator. And I just wonder if those
guys are better at the multiple positions in the entirety

(01:57:27):
of the playbook than Burton is, because you haven't really
seen him with as many of those shorter routes or
those inbreaking routes. It's been a lot of the deep
balls and deep balls only for Burton, And so that
would be my guess as to why we haven't seen
him as much, because those guys have kind of more
mastered those other positions and other routes route combinations in

(01:57:47):
the offense, that would be my guess.

Speaker 4 (01:57:50):
I did it.

Speaker 10 (01:57:50):
I did it.

Speaker 37 (01:57:52):
Just want to we want to unwrap that new Ferrari
man quit pulling out the camera.

Speaker 3 (01:57:57):
Yeah, I hear you. I think that's a great comparison
lectually with trittner Win and Brandon. Thank you for the
phone call. I get it. It just feels like there's
some some stuff there that it just not is adding up.
And I don't want this to say I don't believe
in Jermaine Burton, but I'm at this point I give
Joe and Zach the benefit of the doubt of like,

(01:58:18):
this guy hasn't done all the necessary things yet so
that they can trust him. And you know, maybe that's
gonna come with reps and maybe he needs to play
more and that's part of it. But uh, something to
keep in mind. Let's go to Georgetown, James is there?
What's up? James?

Speaker 4 (01:58:35):
Hey, what's up?

Speaker 34 (01:58:36):
Boston?

Speaker 3 (01:58:36):
Not a whole lot, man.

Speaker 34 (01:58:38):
I think that uh fans all to look at where
the Bengals are at and think, these other teams that
are successful, the Chiefs, the Bills, anything for that matter,
that's having success this year has something, some element that
they can point to and rely on at various different
points in the game.

Speaker 4 (01:58:59):
And I think, I look at the Bengals, they had none.

Speaker 31 (01:59:02):
They have, you know, nothing that they can rely on
and point to and say, Yep, we can get a
yard for offense, or we can get a stop on defense,
or we can even get a field goal.

Speaker 11 (01:59:14):
So yeah, it's a tough place to be.

Speaker 3 (01:59:18):
Yeah, I'm right there with you. And I think again
that to me magnifies the struggles of the run game,
like it seems like so often they're they're just not
on schedule, they're behind schedule. I think it's also part
of the reason why Zach at times has coach conservatively
because he doesn't want to give up a sack or
doesn't want to, you know, give up a h it

(01:59:41):
just like tries to push it up forward as much
as he can and then kick the field goal, and
then you've got that problem with the field goal. Team's
not doing well. You're exactly right. There's just nothing like
easy about it. And they've changed the offense a little
bit and that kind of has fizzled out, and you
saw a lot more of them going empty and just
I think they'd tried to go with what works, which

(02:00:01):
is Joe spread it out and just get the ball
out fast.

Speaker 4 (02:00:05):
Absolutely absolutely, I agree.

Speaker 3 (02:00:07):
I agree completely, James. Thank you for the phone call, man. Absolutely, yeah,
that is it's the thing, man, There's just it all
feels clunky. It all feels clunky off the field, on
the field, all of it. You know I thought about
this too. I can't help but wonder, and I know
I touched on this a little bit at the beginning

(02:00:29):
of the show. I can't help but wonder how much
the Jamar Chase thing maybe lingered more than we think,
and then lingered to the point of the locker room
not being in great shape, and Mike Hilton had talked
about it, and everybody keeps bringing it up. And then

(02:00:49):
they moved the press conference into the interview room because
there's so many reporters. That's obviously a recent development. And
Joe and Basic calling out the defense at one point
earlier this year. Joe kind of seems down, and the
jet that talked about having to be a leader, and
I just wonder how how much the locker room is

(02:01:13):
just frustrated and almost to an extent, turned on each other.
When the defense plays well, the offense doesn't. When the
offense plays well, the defense doesn't. Special teams is doing nothing,
and that nobody likes that because all those guys do
is the same stuff in practice every day. It's just like,
I get the feeling that the vibes are just not

(02:01:35):
great down there, and they got to find a way
to get out of that and winning usually will help
it or winning will cover some of it up, and
they haven't been doing enough of that, and that kind
of just puts them in a difficult situation. I think
that's kind of where they're at right now. Yeah, it's

(02:01:55):
just a tough situation. I know that that's not the
easy thing to say. I know that that's not you know,
the eight Sports talk radio. But it's kind of the
mess that we're in. And then when you you start
assessing the blame towards Zach or you assess it towards
lou or if you want to put it on Mike Brown,
or if you want to put it on Duke Tobin,
and it doesn't get better when teams across the league,

(02:02:17):
your counterparts, your rivals, are making moves to get better,
are making moves to compete, and this team doesn't seem
to do that. You know, it's interesting over the last
several years, the NFL trade deadline has kind of become
a thing. You know, years and years ago, no nobody
really got traded. There wasn't a lot of action on

(02:02:38):
the defensive or on the on the trade deadline, Like
it didn't. It kind of came and went and nothing
much happened. Now over the last three or four years,
it's hectic, it's chaotic. We're coming up on that deadline
a week from today. There's already been a bunch of trades.
There will be more. I think it's interesting that development,

(02:02:58):
that evolution in the NFL. The trade deadline has become
a thing, and it again makes you wonder, are the
Bengals going to be a team that's able to evolve?
Are they going to be a team that's at the forefront.
And I think one of the things that pisses me
off about the Mike Brown thing and the Brown family.
And this could be me just being cheesy and corny.

(02:03:18):
I don't know. But Paul Brown is nicknamed and widely
considered the greatest innovator in the history of professional football.
Football's greatest innovator. So much that he did was forward thinking,

(02:03:39):
so much that he did was advanced, was way ahead
of his time. Changed the game because of his innovative
approach towards it. He was not afraid of making mistakes,
he was not afraid of new things, and he was
willing to try it and it impacted the game forever

(02:04:01):
and ever. He was the first coach to film practices.
He came up with the forty yard dash, the face mask.
There's so much stuff that Paul Brown was the first
to do the helmet, radios, and he was a forward
thinking individual in all aspects of football. And it just

(02:04:21):
doesn't seem like anyone else in the family is like that.
Maybe Elizabeth is, and I feel like there maybe are
some elements of Paul and Elizabeth, But what impact does
she really have on the football team? Very little. The
fan experience is now relevant and up to par with
what it should be for an NFL team. She's figured

(02:04:43):
that part out. She deserves credit for it. Nobody gives
a damn If you don't win, though, and you keep
doing stuff like whiteout games and cool helmets and funny
videos on social media, you got to back it up
with victories on the field, because that's stuff will fall
flat very quickly. And victories on the field, to me,

(02:05:05):
are directly correlated with being able and being willing to
take chances off of it so that you can put
yourself in the right position to win. Take a break
to be back. Since he three to sixty ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 1 (02:05:19):
Bengals sign Cincy three sixty continues on ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati's sports station. It's time for Cincy three sixty quick
hits on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (02:05:31):
Yes, indeed, it is welcome back to Sincy three sixty.
I'm Austin Elmore. Tony out today. Tony will be back tomorrow,
by the way. Moeggar coming up next from beat Ups
Moen from three to six this afternoon. Not a whole
lot going on, but some Red's news. The Reds did
make a couple of transactions yesterday. They officially reinstated from

(02:05:56):
the sixty day injured list infielder Christian incarnassion Strand and
infielder Matt McClain note on him in a moment, and
they designated for assignment left hander Brandon lee Brandt and
infielder Ahmed Rosario. Rosario was all right for the Reds
when they acquired him. Meanwhile, Terry Francono went down to

(02:06:18):
the Dominican Republic. Red's posted a photo of him shopping
it up with jam Or Candelario, noel Vie Marte and
Ellie de la Cruz. Then recent news happening today Arizona
Fall League game. Matt McClain is playing, and he's playing
center field. Matt McClain starting at center in center, I

(02:06:42):
should say for the Reds fall league team, or I
guess his fall league team today. Something to keep an
eye out on is the Reds toy around with moving
Matt McClain and others to different positions to get their
bats in the lineup. All right, that does it for me.
Thank you so much for listening. If you missed anything,
you can check it out on the podcast page ESPN

(02:07:03):
fifteen thirty, dot com, iHeartRadio app, anywhere you get your podcast.
You can also follow along at Tony Underscore Pike fifteen,
at Audiolmore and at ESPN fifteen thirty for anything you
may have missed or want to follow along with. That
does it for me. Moegger is next. This has been

(02:07:24):
since e three to sixty on the Home of the
Bengals Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen.

Speaker 1 (02:07:28):
Thirty, ESPN fifteen thirty, online at ESPN fifteen thirty dot com,
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Speaker 12 (02:07:47):
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and I love being on the same team with all
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