January 14, 2025 • 36 mins
Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us the Bengals' search for a defensive coordinator, the list of free agents and which ones will and won't stay, a player who should win an award that could be named after Mo, Trey Hendrickson's future, and how Mike Tomlin and Russell Wilson are the new Marvin Lewis and Andy Dalton.
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Podcasts of The Mo Egger Radio Show are a service of Longnecks Sports Grill.
Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Enter this nationwide keyword on our website.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Money.
Speaker 3 (00:03):
That's money. Enter it now. This is Paul Dayner Junior
and Moe Egger in studio talking all things Bengals and
general NFL topics on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station. No,
we haven't run that thing since August. What's up. Good afternoon.
I'm Allegar and this is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank you
(00:24):
for listening. I hope you having an awesome Tuesday. Paul
Danner Junior is here. We're in studio this afternoon. After
a football seasons where the shows on Tuesdays at Buffalo
Wild Wings, which we miss sorely and hope you back
to doing next football season. We are back in studio today.
Paul is here at the Athletic dot Com, the Growler
(00:46):
Podcast and on x at Paul Danner Junior. It's it's
good to have you. It's good to be here. I
wish the Bengals were playing, but the last few weeks
got weird with you and I because of the holidays,
because of the Bengals playing on Saturdays, and it got weird,
and so it's it's just it's nice to have you back.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Here with me in studio. This feels like home base.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
You know, it's like, let's start over, Let's get back
to our foundational roots here in the studio and just
get just get back to normal.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
And you know, mu's more normal than how do you
fix all this?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
That's right, Yes, there is a there is a comfort
level that I have in trying to fix all the
Bengals issues. Yeah, there's many, Well, there's a lot. And
you wrote a lengthy rundown of some of the decisions
the Bengals have in front of them regarding their own
free agents not named T Higgins, which is a category
onto itself, and I want to get to that a
little bit later on. Let's start though, with the search
(01:41):
for a defensive coordinator. It's ongoing, it's ongoing. Yeah, when
do you think Smoke will emerge from the venue originally
known as Paul Brown Stadium to tell us that they
have hired a DC. I don't think when Notre Dame's
done planned. That feels like that would be a point.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
You know, we've talked about a few of the known
connection candidates here and ones that they would want to
talk to, and it certainly would seem that Al Golden
would be somebody that they would want to talk to.
Here's the thing, here's you know, when we are trying
to pin down a timeline, which has been hard to
pin down, sure, but in general, I think here's the Bengals.
(02:21):
Believe it or not, they're the domino. Okay, the defensive
coordinator market is not really gonna move with anyone until
the Bengals move because they're the one that the top candidates,
or at least the top of the Bengals list, will want. Now,
maybe other ones that they're you know, guys that they're
not interested in, you know, maybe those guys will sign
(02:43):
elsewhere first. But I think from the group, if you
think you have a chance at the Bengals gig, you're
not moving until you know you've been told explicitly you're
not getting it. I don't think, and I think that's
to their advantage. They're not gonna move quickly thinking they're
gonna miss out on somebody. That gives them time to
wait on the people that they want to talk to,
whether it's NFL assistants that are still in the playoffs,
(03:05):
whether it's somebody who's in the college football playoff, whether
it's anybody who they have on their radar that they
just want to make sure that they talk to to
check that box.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I think they can do that.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I don't feel like they need to rush, and so
for that matter, I think it's kind of open ended
a little bit. But I don't think they wanted to
drag on forever. But I think, you know, a week
or two probably feels like you start closing in, you know,
pretty closely.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yeah, we've seen some bigger names become a part of
the conversation, like Matt Eberfluss. Yeah, which as long as
he's not in charge of any sort of game management.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
It's what I said when we did the original list,
So he's not going to have to make any game
management decisions.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
You know, you worry about his.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Reputation taking a hit a little bit with players what
happened in Chicago, But whatever, man, you go back and
you look in the basic of his defense coordinator work,
where three of the four years in Indianapolis he had
a top ten defense and points allowed, and that's what
got him that job. And he held onto that job
for reasons that he was liked within the building. And
so you worry about that, But he's not doing any
(04:05):
you know, he's not gonna be over here trying to
make game management decisions at all. He's just he's just
gonna be taking care of the defense with head coaching experience.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
So yeah, that would I like that.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
And then I'm reading about Don Wink Martindale.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Don't worry about Don Wink Martindale.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
We're good. I don't want I don't want him.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
To be the I don't see Wink being in the mix.
I don't want him to be the guy I don't
think he's gonna be, because.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Then I'm gonna have to take back all the mean
things I said about him when he talked about Joe
Burrow not.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yet being in these Burrows show up in the Krusty
Krab sweatshirt the first day he's on the job, Like, look,
there there was there was some some ill will between
these coaching staffs, and specifically over some of the stuff
that was going on with Wink Martindale. So yeah, I
don't I don't put it much stock into into his
(04:47):
name being.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Should we put any stock into a Dejon Anthony's TikTok?
Speaker 1 (04:50):
No? Did? How much stock did you have in it? Before?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I didn't know it existed?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
In stock.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
So, so here's the friend that I was. What day
was that last week? Whatever day it was, it was right.
It was right before I got set to either come in,
or maybe it was one of the days I did
the show from home. Anyway, I took a pause to
eat lunch in my kitchen and empty the dishwasher, which
is the one household chore that is mine that I
(05:16):
am assigned to because my wife hates doing it, And
so I'm in the middle of doing that that I
equally do not like, but it's mine, and I'm emptying
the dishwasher and a friend of mine text me and goes,
who's the new DC, And I'm like, I don't know.
So I start scrambling furiously you and all the other
folks who cover the team, and then finally I stumbled
(05:37):
upon Dejon Anthony has tipped that it's going to be
shocking who it is. And I'm like, all right, do
I have to spend any energy on this? Anytime on this?
And so I had to spend some Did you have
to spend any Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, I mean you gotta at least check and make sure,
like this isn't just some player who accidentally fell into
some knowledge and didn't know what to do with it,
like he was playing on fourth and sixteen, you know
what I mean, Like, is that what happened here? And No,
I think, you know, whatever, whatever that was one who cares? Okay, Two,
(06:13):
I don't, you know, I don't think that there's it
could have been a name. Hey, somebody's in the mix
and you're the next thing, you know, you're on TikTok
saying you're gonna be surprised to it, not having any
real clue about how any of this works. So no,
I don't. I don't put much stuck into it. It
was a real thing in the moment because you had
to try to figure out like is this just some
(06:33):
dumb thing that happened, you know, like this this happened
every the off season, so you were just immediately reminded
how instufferable the off season can and it's like this
stuff happens and you got to like.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Follow it for a day.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah you're like, ugh, no, I don't want to do this,
but yeah, no, I you know, it's not really much
of it.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
And I was trying to figure out on our show.
First of all, the problem with this was I started
to go down the day Jehn Anthony rabbit hole, and
then I forgot that I had only emptied half of
the dishwasher. So when my wife came home, I had
to explain to her I didn't finish because of Dejon
Anthony's TikTok.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, that's a tough one. That's not where you want
to be.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
No, it questions your ability to be the person responsible
for loading and unloading the dishwasher, honestly, but it.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Does set the stage for an off season where you
know who's going to be spotted at the Kenwood mall. Uh,
who just landed at CVG, Who's out to dinner? Like, man,
God love you.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, and you haven't even gotten into who said a thing?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, a trade request or the problem we even gotten
into any any of that world.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
By the way, how did you acquire that?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Did you acquire it because you proved to be good
at it at Look? Are you like a meticulous dishwasher loader?
Because there's like two kinds of people, people that are
very militant about the structure and then people who sort
of loaded like you know, mefed out raccoon or something
like that. I kind of am like that, but I'm
willing to do it, and I feel like that causes
(08:01):
a little you know, you can have problems in there.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Yeah, for whatever reason, my wife does not like that
particular chore.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I also dislike it because no dishwasher that I have
ever owned actually dries the dishes.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
And the most annoying thing in.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Life to me is if you have a bowl in
the top racket it still has water and you pull
it out and the water it spills on your foot.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Like that is my pet peeve in life.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
But I think with my wife it's like, look, I
can count on you to do maybe three things.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
This is one of them. Yeah, can you just do this?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, So it's kind of become This morning, I'm getting
ready to leave. My wife was off today home and
there's the green light on the dishwasher, and it's like, man,
before I go. So right after I was done texting
with you, I'm like, before I go, I better empty
that thing.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yeah, I have a really weird thing. I'm not sure
what this says about me. One of my one of
the most soothing sounds that I feel like I ever
hear that I enjoy most is a quiet house at
night with nothing but the dishwasher running.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
I like the sound of it running, Like when you
go up to go to bed and that's he's turn on.
It's running overnight or whatever, and I hear it. I'm
like it just it makes me feel calm.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
It gives me anxiety because when I wake up in
the morning, that's what I'm gonna have to do.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And I don't like it. That's fair.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
That's why I like. I buy a lot of paper plates.
Like we're going into areas the audience doesn't care. I
buy a lot of paper plates. Yeah, so we use
the diswasher less, so I just spend less time emptying
it because I genuinely don't like that.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I'm pro paper plates. Yeah, I'm for sure. Is this
what happens when we're not at a bar having to
have this is what happens when the defense is No,
this is too much comfort in studios. The defensive coordinator search,
to me, is boring. I'm gonna be painfully honest with you.
It's not that it's not important. What about the offensive
line coach search where you really won't know any of
the names.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Yeah, is that one. Here's here's what I'll ah. I
can tell you the defensive coordinator will be aggressive and
the offensive line coach will be intense.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
It'll be intense. Yeah, he'll be He'll be a real
football guy.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Uh, were you surprised? I guess he has added Atlanta
to his list where you at least somewhat surprised that
there wasn't maybe a a little bit more DC interest
in Lou.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I think there's I mean, I think there is.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I mean a couple when you've got enough Indy and
Atlanta's happening, and I would imagine he'll pop up as
more movement happens, right, I mean, you've got it's still
kind of stagnant until the head coach. Things start to
start moving, and so then you can see you can
see Lou sneaking in. I think he'll I think he'll
end up, you know. I think he'll end up with
(10:25):
a DC job, And I think he'll probably have talked
to four or five.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Teams when it's all said and done.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Really, I feel like that that's kind of the buzz
out there around him right now. I just think he's
well respected. And we talked about this like it doesn't
mean that either side is wrong. You know, the Bengals
needed to move on. They need a fresh voice, They
needed a change. But it wasn't because Lou suddenly became
a terrible coordinator. It just it just there's a stale
(10:53):
factor that was happening there. And I think a lot
of teams look at what Lou has been able to
do and see it as, look, you need somebody that
can game plan in the playoffs. We've watched this guy
do it with the right components. We feel like we
have the personnel that can fit him. This could be
a match and you could make it work. So you've
always felt like he's still a good coordinator. I'm not
(11:14):
stunned at all, even if even back in the middle
of the season when things were going terribly, I remember
us talking about it and the point was, yeah, they
got to move on. But I feel like he's still
gonna be a defensive cordator next year. Like it just
feels like there's just too much respect for what he
did and too much knowledge of how things just here
just kind of became untenable.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
I feel like among the many missteps I've made in
my life is not studying to become a defensive coordinator,
because it kind of feels like once you're in the
club you're in. I was thinking about that watching the
Steelers on Saturday Night with Tara Austin, and I'm like,
that's just one of those dudes. He'll probably coordinate defenses
for like nine teams by the time he's done it.
Just wink Martindale. Like these guys that just sort of
(11:55):
hop scotch around the league and maybe they go get
a college job. But defensive coordinators, it sort of feels like,
as long as you still want to work, there's a
team that'll go, yeah, we'll let you coordinate the defense.
And so I feel like Lou is in the club
and it's a hard club to get kicked out of.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
You know, Defensive coordinators and defense this as a whole.
They're kind of like kickers. Yeah, Like they're volatile, yes,
you know, like one year they're great and used and
it's just all working, and the next year it's just
not working for whatever reason.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Why.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
You're kid, you're or you're Evan McPherson, right, and you
go from the tub. And but once you're in it,
when you're one of these veteran kickers, you're never just
sitting at home not getting a call, you know, like
Will Watts is always gonna get a call, right, Okay,
no matter no matter what's going on. I mean I'm
not I'm actually a surprise Jim Breeze doesn't get more calls, right,
I mean, how many game winning kicks do you got
to make?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Right?
Speaker 1 (12:45):
You know?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
And so like, once you're in there, I feel like
that is it's one of those things you've proven you
can do it, You've proven you're capable, and those markets
are just so unstable from year to year that it
just induces change and people just want comfort. They want
knowledge that you're gonna show up and know what the
heck's going on and not be totally overwhelmed, which makes
(13:06):
it hard to be rising defensive coordinator candidate guy. Right, Yeah,
and those guys tend to end up being really good,
Like you see a lot of big time success stories
and they quickly become the next round of head coach candidates.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
But teams are scared. It's a bigger risk.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And I think it's the interesting aspect of this discussion
when we sit here and talk about names like, you know,
whether we're talking about Wink Martindale or Eberflus or whoever.
These people that have done it before, Versus Jim Leonard
from Denver or Christian Parker is only thirty two from Philadelphia,
but he's the hot, up and coming thing on the defense,
which there's a risk in that, and you get a
(13:45):
risk being too cute trying to make the perfect play,
or just give me somebody that knows what they're doing
and can coordinate the fifteenth ranked defense. And I feel
like that's gonna be an interesting situation, not who it is, necessarily,
but which side of the coin is that Bengals landouts.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
What I enjoy most about like the first two weeks
of the season because it's it's it's like it's like
when you run into former co workers, right and you're.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Like, oh yeah, he's working over there on Channel twelve
now right, Oh yeah, okay, and you see like they'll
show on the sideline there's uh I'm trying to think
of a good example that there's Tarrell Austin right there,
there's Matt eberflush, there's there's.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Vic Fangio, Like, oh yeah, that guy's the coach of
the Broncos. Okay, they'll show him in the box and
then the kyron will have his name and it's like
I was wondering what happened to that guy? Yeah, and
so like defensive coordinators, it just so, we'll do that
with lou next year, and then whoever the Bengals higher
will do that with that guy in four or five
years when we decide and he's no good and some
other teams are like, yeah, we'll take him. Can't wait?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, waiting for Tarol Austin to be the latest time
that he takes the fall right, Pittsburgh, Right, Yeah, defense
falls apart. Well, I'm sure it's Tarol Austin's fault, of course,
same way it was here and then he backed somewhere else,
and you know, it's just it's it's the nature of it.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
All right. So the smart should I wager on Al
Golden being the guy? I'm a wager if I had
to bet on one man. There's a lot of variables
with Al Golden. I mean, I think he makes sense,
but he would be expensive. He has to not want
to do something else in college. I mean, I imagine
some if there's a college head coach or some sort
of a rays that he wants to get there.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Does he even want to come to the NFL? Does
he want to.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Stay at Notre Dame. Like, there's a lot of variables
with that to happen. There's just the connections are there obviously.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah, all right, well, but I.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Wish I wouldn't wager on it, but I do think
I you know, you'll see something, okay.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Like Tuesday morning after Notre Dame loses to Ohio State.
In the title gay, uh.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I'm not saying I'm not saying.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
That it is nineteen minutes after three o'clock. Go read
Paul's Piecethathletic dot com about the Bengals in their own
free agents. Someone to spend a few minutes on that.
When we come back. He's here till four, We're here
till five thirty. Kentucky Basketball bumps us out of the
way a half hour early. My name is Maulwgger. Glad
you are with us today on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 6 (16:06):
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Speaker 3 (16:58):
Thank you so much for listening today, Paul Dander Juniors
here until four o'clock. Go to the Athletic dot com
Paul as this is an annual exercise running through the
list of Bengals free agents, and as you pointed out, T.
Higgins is sort of a category unto himself. Yeah, I
wrote it last week. I started.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I started like doing the normal exercise that I do,
and I got about four words into starting Tea, which
last year became a four part series obviously, and I
was like, okay, stop, this is its own thing. So
I wrote I think about fourteen hundred words on Tea
last week as sort of the entire state of where
that stands, which is to say that it's wildly complicated.
(17:42):
But the other way everybody else is up there now,
which you know what's interesting going through it. You take
Tea out of the equation there and there's not a
lot to like fret about. There's not a lot to
get all been out of shape buck where the last
two years, yes, they have been very very much of
the core of those Super Bowl teams have been up
(18:03):
for debate and whether you're gonna resign them. And we've
seen this mass exod this that you know, these players
that we're still now talking about and reiterating every time
people complain about the state of the Bengals. But this
year's not as much that you know, and I think
there's decisions there and there's guys, you know, WHI talking about
j Hill and Hilton and there's players, but I feel
like it's it's not what it was where you're feeling like, man,
(18:26):
they're gonna be lettings. They have so many decisions to
make on how they're gonna let all these people walk.
Maybe it's not really like that. And if there's one,
you know, silver lining to some of the clouds that
are out there right now.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
So I agree with you, and you're right, But I
do think there are a couple of guys who are interesting.
There's also somebody. I want to give an award to.
One guy who's interesting to me is I bet if
you would have asked most fans where did Mike Hilton
rank in Pro Football Focus is grading of corners, they
would have said middle of the pack, lower part fourteenth.
(18:58):
Now I know that's based on the role that they
carved out for him as the season went on, where
he was great blitzing off the corner and great against
the run. I was dismayed. I say this here every week.
I do not want to give away your content, but
I was dismayed to a degree at how unlikely you
think it is that he comes back, Because I think
there's a role for him on the field and also
(19:20):
in the locker room.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yes, so I think he is. You're right fascinating because
I think there's two sides to this. I think internally,
they have to look at this defense and say, look,
the saving grace is gonna be all of these young
corners developing under some new coordinator who comes in with
(19:43):
a fresh voice that is kind of known for developing
young players, maybe specifically under you, whether Dax Hill, Cam Taylor,
Britt DJ Turner, Josh Newton, all those guys add in
a couple more of whatever. But I think inevitably and
they've got a lot of guys that can play the slot,
and theoretically it's like that was supposed to be Dax
Hill's job in twenty twenty five for a couple of
years now. So that said, you need them to take ownership.
(20:10):
You need them to feel, in Bolden, this is my team,
this is my secondary. It's our time is now. And
it's really hard for them to look at it that way.
If Mike Hilton's still there and this isn't a knock
on that team had like three dudes that can make
plays on defense last year and he was one of them,
(20:30):
and he made a ton of them, and he made
himself money and proof he still has value in this league.
And if you use him the right way and you're
blitzing him all the time and you're aggressive with him
off the edge and maybe you figure out ways to
pick your spots in terms of maybe it is taking
them off fielding, third down, whatever, talk about that that
there's real value with Mike Hilton still. Clearly he's so
instinctive and such a good player there. That said, though,
(20:52):
if you're worried about the entire room feeling like this
is my group, this is my team, you kind of
have to let Mike Hilton walk. And that's a hard
decision to make because on the other side of it
is everything I just said and people that love Mike
Hilton and understand what he is as a core of
you know, the team and the fabric. But at some
(21:15):
point you got to move it on. And when you're
having a new coordinator coming in and all this new
feel that you want to have, it felt the reason
I popped his percentage down. It felt a little out
of place to still have him around. And that's not
about Mike Hilton. Yeah, like that, that is not about
Mike Hilton, the player that is about the Cincinnati Bengals defense.
(21:35):
The situation, I think that's what makes it a really
hard decision, and amongst the hardest on that entire list.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
You had him a twenty five percent. Yeah, that's the situation.
I genuinely want you to be wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I genuinely think that the future and the immediate future
for this defense is going young and really leaning into
the young players, specifically in the secondary, and again adding
more that can take this thing over. And it's just
it's hard to do that until you clear the deck.
(22:09):
You see that with like when they had to get
rid of Carlos Dunlap and Geno Atkins for Sam Hubbard
to feel like a leader and a captain. You know,
like this happens all the time. You just you kind
of have to clear that deck. And I feel like,
but you had Sam Hubbard and you knew he could
be a captain. You're replacing Mike Hilton with Dax Hill
and Cam Taylor Britt and Josh Newton and DJ Turner.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
You're right, like they're in a bad place mode.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
But I mean, like, you know, the Carlos Dunlap thing
kind of got sideways.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
At the end.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
But like you, you knew what you had in Sam Hubbard.
You knew at least you know who. You maybe didn't
know how good of a player he was going to become,
but you knew, Okay, here's a guy, this is a dude,
this is a bye and this is a culture guy.
This is a future captain.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
You knew.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Can I say that about any one of those other
corners right now.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Not with the certainty you could about saym Hubbard. But
I think there's real belief in those guys in terms
of the people that they are, how much it matters
to them, and the confidence that they can play with
if it feels like they've been given that confidence, you know.
An example of this on the flip side is what
happened at Safety this past year with Jordan Battle. I
(23:18):
feel like when they brought Von Bell back, it really
beat Jordan Battle up mentally to be like, they don't
even see me as the guy, and these are young
kids that need that confidence. Rookie season, yes, it felt
like he had earned the right, not earned the right,
but it felt like it was his time in year
(23:39):
two to be the guy. Okay, And then they brought
in Von Bell and they put in this former captain
over top of him, and so what happened He kind
of lost all his momentum and felt like, man, they
don't even see me as a young kids can be
affected and confidence can go one of two ways. And
if you aren't clearing the space for these guys to
(24:02):
dive headfirst into this being their time and their career
and there's no one in front of you now, then
you can stunt their growth. And I think that's that's
a position that you find yourself in right now with
this team, is which which side do you want to
go in the proven playmaker and the guy who's been
such a good player and a guy in something you know,
or clear the runway and hope these guys.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Run I want to have I want to I'm late here,
so I'm going to break in. But there's one more
pending free agent that I want to discuss, and then
we have to create an award. You know, we have
the Mulger Award. Yeah, during training time winner Andre Yoshi,
and we've determined Andre can't win it anymore. Okay, well
that'll that's a topic for July. But there's another award
I want to hand out and maybe we'll name it
(24:44):
after the person we're going to give it to. We'll
get to that when we come back. He's Paul Danner,
Junior at the Athletic dot Com and The Growler Podcast.
Here till four o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 7 (24:56):
SINCY three sixty with Tony Pike. We want to move on,
have to keep going and Boston Elmore.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I think you should contind let me keep going down.
Speaker 7 (25:04):
Sincy three sixty Tomorrow at twelve News on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 5 (25:11):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. Traffic from the.
Speaker 6 (25:16):
UC Health Traffic Center. Don't let injury slow you down.
The UC Health orthopedics and sports medicine experts can help
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Speaker 3 (26:04):
Xavier looking to make it two straight wins as they
take on Eric Dickson in the Phalandeva Wildcats a game
from Cintas Center at seven on seven hundred I'm sorry,
six thirty. Tip off on seven hundred WLW. Tonight on
ESPN fifteen thirty, we have Kentucky and Texas A and
m Pregame coverage starts at five thirty. Miami's at Northern Illinois,
Ohio State Battles Wisconsin, Indiana will host Illinois. The Columbus
(26:29):
Blue Jackets, looking for a fifth consecutive win, take on
the Philadelphia Flyers tonight. Paul Danner Junior is here from
the Athletic dot Com. Is there any Bengals news today,
I mean today. No, don't put in the headlines.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
No, I don't think there's anything any news today. Okay,
not in the most newsy time.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
No, no, not just waiting to find out till that
doin drops. Yeah, coordinator search one more on your list
of free agents, which folks should go read at the
Athletic dot Com. Reading your blurb on Mike Kasiki means
I'm he's not a tight end.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
He's not.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
I mean that was. They didn't use him as such, right,
Like the biggest misnomer, I think that's the word you use.
The biggest misnomer is that guy is a tight end?
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, right?
Speaker 3 (27:14):
And so he was a productive wide receiver for the
Bengals this year.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
He was when T Higgins was not on the field,
he was the clear by a long way number two option.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
So there's a strong case that could be made for T.
Higgins to be on the team next year, which we've
talked about occasionally occasionally, And there's a very strong case
that you could look at Mike Kasicki's body of work
and want that guy back next season.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Can they have both? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:41):
And can one basically be the replacement for the other?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I think I think it's it's a couple aspects to it. One,
if T goes, you have to bring back Kasiki and
now a little more affordable. But you have to because
you know that he was really what helped keep them
afloat without Tea this year, and they got They were
really creative and and as good as it gets at
(28:07):
finding ways to use the weapons that they have and
and make it all fit together. Whereas you know, a
lot of teams I think looked at Kasiki and really
focused on what he couldn't do as a as a.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Blocker or whatever.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
They really focused on what he did well, and they
just leaned into that all the way, and that was him.
I think it ended up at nine percent about of
in line snaps, yeah, which was the most, the least
amongst tight ends.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
The second number would have gone down if Eric All
would have stayed health right.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Second second least in the NFL was Mark Andrews at
almost twenty percent. So again that was just like, this
guy's a receiver. He's a really good receiver. Let's use
him as a big body receiver. And he kind of
developed and evolved into the Tea replacement when T was out.
So I think that's the part of it. But there's
no reason they can't bring them both back. You know,
something that stuck out to to me about Kasiki when
(28:57):
we were talking to him at locker cleanout day was
in pointing out like, look, I mean, I'm not gonna
say it's all about the money, but I did kind
of miss a couple of contracts the last couple of
years while I was dealing with whatever happened at the
end of Miami and the non usage in New England.
So he is looking to make up for lost time
a little bit and will. But will other teams see
(29:18):
the value in what he did here? Will they be
willing to pay him? Where does his market end up?
And I think that's I think you can have both.
I don't know they will end up with both, but
you can't. You certainly can, but they you know, he's
bringing him back certainly far down the list of priorities
when you start talking about the defense and the guard
(29:38):
play and all the other stuff.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
We also forgot about my guy Eric Hall. I didn't
forget about Eric, but it's interesting if you talk about
like the least talked about player in the second half
of the season, as we discussed guys who could have
an impact next year, Like who did love everything they
saw from Eric Hall?
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (29:54):
What he was healthy? Now back to back significant knee
injuries makes you have some pause. But like when I
watched that guy play, I said it to you, like
that's a dude, Like that's a guy.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
He changed.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
He changed the way they constructed their offense. And I
think a lot of the issues that you saw happen
with them in the run game and in short yardage
and them just leaning all the way into throwing at
every single snap essentially a special second half a season
was a direct result of losing air call. They were
willing to lean into that run game more.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
When he was there.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
They were getting great stuff out of him and out
of it, and it was allowed them to creatively, you know,
find space on the ground with an offensive line that
wasn't exactly plowing open enough holes. And so if you
bring him into the equation again, if with the medical
being a big part of this, how how effective is
he going to be?
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Can he stay healthy?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
If you can do that, it's it's a game changer
for the way they could operate. You could make an
argument at that point then if you could get another
air call type in this draft, you go out there
and become a twelve personnel team as a reaction if
you were to lose teague, Okay, you could come out
there and say Eric All and a first or second
round tight end and put those guys both out there together,
(31:09):
and and now now you're kind of cooking a little
bit more of a power team off of what you're doing.
All of that would be a reaction to the one
main thing that everything starts with, which is the trio
technically of t Jamar and Joel the other one.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
And this is if you asked. If you asked, I
think more casual fans to name the players that have
been here since Zach Taylor's first game. They'll they'll mention
Sam Hubbard, and I think they'll mention Jermaine Pratt, and
they might have to think for a second. They'll go
Drew Sample. Most won't say Travion Wins. This dude has
played in the NFL for six years. As you pointed out,
(31:47):
he has managed only sixty two carries. This guy is
my hero. You can name the award after me. Work
for a long time in the same place and accomplish
nothing to go like legitimately, this could be the Mulleger
Award Part two. Right, Hey, this dude is I give
it up to this guy twenty seven years old. He's
made a nice chunk of change for himself. He has
managed to avoid injury. He has made no real impact.
(32:11):
The guy could walk into most sports bars in town,
no one have any idea, and I applaud this. I
think he hasn't gotten in trouble. He hasn't said the
wrong thing, he hasn't cried about playing time. He's done
nothing stupid in a game. There's been no nothing against
the guy, but no Dejon Anthony moment where he's got
to live down this awful mistake on the field, like nothing.
Six years, he's made almost five and a half million dollars,
(32:33):
He's got his health. He can go play in the
NFL somewhere next year. Maybe it's with the Bengals. This
is the sort of thing that should be celebrated. I'm
the guy that so I love longevity. But if you
could accomplish longevity and also accomplish little else, which is
basically my career in a nutshell, awesome.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
I feel like Trevion's kind of like the company culture higher.
You know, it's like, look a great dude. Everybody likes him,
shows up on time, does everything the wrong the right way,
nice guy. Not super sure what his impact is around here,
Yeah it does. But people really like him, yes, and
he really is a good dude. You should just keep
him around. He's such a nice guy and like makes
(33:11):
everybody feel better, and and you just kind of you
just kind of want to root for a guy like that.
You know.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
That's that's what trade yard is. Yere six male, six.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Years like and I guess in the back of my
mind I knew that, but it wasn't until I read this,
and I'm like, six years, sixty two carries. He's been
been active for the overwhelming majority of those games, right, Yeah,
like awesome.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
I want him back?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Made me your favorite Travan Williams kickoff return, can't I
want him back? Seven years?
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I want to row it?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Ye, how long can it go? Average ten carries a season,
let's go. I'm rooting like hell for this guy during
training campus is gonna be all I'm talking about. Who's
Who's Trayveon? Gotta fend off? Who's Trayvon gotta fend off?
To be the third running back and never play.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I don't know if he's gonna be back. I don't
feel good about it. I feel like, I mean, six
was asking a lot. I mean, okay, he got the
six the bank. You and I have joked about this
in the past. They have two type of press releases
for when they release a player. There's the sort of
like single line or in some cases, multiple paragraph quick statement.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
With no quote from coach, owner, anybody else. Travon Williams,
I want Mike Brown, I want Duke Coben, I want
Zach Taylor. I want all of his position coaches, because
he's had multiple Give me a teammate or two, give
me a Burrow quote. This should be celebrated. I need
a thank you video on at Bengals. It's gonna be
hard to show moments. I've got grant you that, Yeah,
(34:33):
but they've got to have, you know, a few still
shots of him standing on the sideline cheering for his teammates. This,
this is the sort of thing that should be celebrated.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
I think you should be quoted in it. You should.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
It should be a whole portion of the press release
just talking about the Trevion Williams Award. How it's been
amazing to actually watch him grow into this role.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah. How he's been a.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Motivator for you know what player, what number he wears.
But I'm gonna get his jersey thirty two. Yeah, I'm
gonna get. He's my new favorite, my third favorite all
time Boomer Blake, Trayvon Way, my free all time favorite Bengals.
You play in this day and at that position, that
position where they're constantly churning and looking for guys.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Every sixth round pick running back is like worth a
pick where the flyer they becomes, somebody send them all off.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
God love you. This is amazing, amazing, what an amazing career.
All right, I uh, I want to spend a few
minutes on a four part series. You could do this
coming off season. Okay, you've got an idea. I think
it's a pretty obvious idea. And then can we talk
about the Steelers a little bit?
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
You just want to take some shots at Mike Tomland
on you yeah, Marvin Tomlin, yes, Marvin yeah, absolutely, and
uh and Russell Dalton Yes.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Eleven away from a four o'clock ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty traffic from the.
Speaker 6 (35:54):
UC Health Traffic Center. Don't let injury slow you down.
The uc Health Orthopedics in Sports Edison experts can help
keep you moving. Schedule a same day appointment at UCHealth
dot com. There's a few problem arias to watch out
for as you make your afternoon commute. There's an accident
on Paddock Road between Tennessee Avenue and Nordwood Lateral Expressway,
and beware of an accident on Infirmary Road at Pinnacle Road.
(36:17):
Police on the scene. Watch out for delays in that area.
There's still a few problem areas causing some delays to
you after word commute. Watch out for that disabled vehicle
that has the right lane blocked on seventy one seventy
five southbound after Buttermilk Pike Police on the scene. Watch
out for delays. There's also an ongoing accident on Infirmary
Road at Pinnacle Road. Police on the scene there as well.
That disabled vehicle is finally cleared on six seventy five
(36:39):
northbound at Wilmington Pike on Monjre Jones with traffic.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
This report is sponsored by Staple Stores
Enter this nationwide keyword on our website.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Money.
Speaker 3 (00:03):
That's money. Enter it now. This is Paul Dayner Junior
and Moe Egger in studio talking all things Bengals and
general NFL topics on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station. No,
we haven't run that thing since August. What's up. Good afternoon.
I'm Allegar and this is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank you
(00:24):
for listening. I hope you having an awesome Tuesday. Paul
Danner Junior is here. We're in studio this afternoon. After
a football seasons where the shows on Tuesdays at Buffalo
Wild Wings, which we miss sorely and hope you back
to doing next football season. We are back in studio today.
Paul is here at the Athletic dot Com, the Growler
(00:46):
Podcast and on x at Paul Danner Junior. It's it's
good to have you. It's good to be here. I
wish the Bengals were playing, but the last few weeks
got weird with you and I because of the holidays,
because of the Bengals playing on Saturdays, and it got weird,
and so it's it's just it's nice to have you back.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Here with me in studio. This feels like home base.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
You know, it's like, let's start over, Let's get back
to our foundational roots here in the studio and just
get just get back to normal.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
And you know, mu's more normal than how do you
fix all this?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
That's right, Yes, there is a there is a comfort
level that I have in trying to fix all the
Bengals issues. Yeah, there's many, Well, there's a lot. And
you wrote a lengthy rundown of some of the decisions
the Bengals have in front of them regarding their own
free agents not named T Higgins, which is a category
onto itself, and I want to get to that a
little bit later on. Let's start though, with the search
(01:41):
for a defensive coordinator. It's ongoing, it's ongoing. Yeah, when
do you think Smoke will emerge from the venue originally
known as Paul Brown Stadium to tell us that they
have hired a DC. I don't think when Notre Dame's
done planned. That feels like that would be a point.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
You know, we've talked about a few of the known
connection candidates here and ones that they would want to
talk to, and it certainly would seem that Al Golden
would be somebody that they would want to talk to.
Here's the thing, here's you know, when we are trying
to pin down a timeline, which has been hard to
pin down, sure, but in general, I think here's the Bengals.
(02:21):
Believe it or not, they're the domino. Okay, the defensive
coordinator market is not really gonna move with anyone until
the Bengals move because they're the one that the top candidates,
or at least the top of the Bengals list, will want. Now,
maybe other ones that they're you know, guys that they're
not interested in, you know, maybe those guys will sign
(02:43):
elsewhere first. But I think from the group, if you
think you have a chance at the Bengals gig, you're
not moving until you know you've been told explicitly you're
not getting it. I don't think, and I think that's
to their advantage. They're not gonna move quickly thinking they're
gonna miss out on somebody. That gives them time to
wait on the people that they want to talk to,
whether it's NFL assistants that are still in the playoffs,
(03:05):
whether it's somebody who's in the college football playoff, whether
it's anybody who they have on their radar that they
just want to make sure that they talk to to
check that box.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I think they can do that.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I don't feel like they need to rush, and so
for that matter, I think it's kind of open ended
a little bit. But I don't think they wanted to
drag on forever. But I think, you know, a week
or two probably feels like you start closing in, you know,
pretty closely.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yeah, we've seen some bigger names become a part of
the conversation, like Matt Eberfluss. Yeah, which as long as
he's not in charge of any sort of game management.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
It's what I said when we did the original list,
So he's not going to have to make any game
management decisions.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
You know, you worry about his.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Reputation taking a hit a little bit with players what
happened in Chicago, But whatever, man, you go back and
you look in the basic of his defense coordinator work,
where three of the four years in Indianapolis he had
a top ten defense and points allowed, and that's what
got him that job. And he held onto that job
for reasons that he was liked within the building. And
so you worry about that, But he's not doing any
(04:05):
you know, he's not gonna be over here trying to
make game management decisions at all. He's just he's just
gonna be taking care of the defense with head coaching experience.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
So yeah, that would I like that.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
And then I'm reading about Don Wink Martindale.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Don't worry about Don Wink Martindale.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
We're good. I don't want I don't want him.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
To be the I don't see Wink being in the mix.
I don't want him to be the guy I don't
think he's gonna be, because.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Then I'm gonna have to take back all the mean
things I said about him when he talked about Joe
Burrow not.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yet being in these Burrows show up in the Krusty
Krab sweatshirt the first day he's on the job, Like, look,
there there was there was some some ill will between
these coaching staffs, and specifically over some of the stuff
that was going on with Wink Martindale. So yeah, I
don't I don't put it much stock into into his
(04:47):
name being.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Should we put any stock into a Dejon Anthony's TikTok?
Speaker 1 (04:50):
No? Did? How much stock did you have in it? Before?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I didn't know it existed?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
In stock.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
So, so here's the friend that I was. What day
was that last week? Whatever day it was, it was right.
It was right before I got set to either come in,
or maybe it was one of the days I did
the show from home. Anyway, I took a pause to
eat lunch in my kitchen and empty the dishwasher, which
is the one household chore that is mine that I
(05:16):
am assigned to because my wife hates doing it, And
so I'm in the middle of doing that that I
equally do not like, but it's mine, and I'm emptying
the dishwasher and a friend of mine text me and goes,
who's the new DC, And I'm like, I don't know.
So I start scrambling furiously you and all the other
folks who cover the team, and then finally I stumbled
(05:37):
upon Dejon Anthony has tipped that it's going to be
shocking who it is. And I'm like, all right, do
I have to spend any energy on this? Anytime on this?
And so I had to spend some Did you have
to spend any Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, I mean you gotta at least check and make sure,
like this isn't just some player who accidentally fell into
some knowledge and didn't know what to do with it,
like he was playing on fourth and sixteen, you know
what I mean, Like, is that what happened here? And No,
I think, you know, whatever, whatever that was one who cares? Okay, Two,
(06:13):
I don't, you know, I don't think that there's it
could have been a name. Hey, somebody's in the mix
and you're the next thing, you know, you're on TikTok
saying you're gonna be surprised to it, not having any
real clue about how any of this works. So no,
I don't. I don't put much stuck into it. It
was a real thing in the moment because you had
to try to figure out like is this just some
(06:33):
dumb thing that happened, you know, like this this happened
every the off season, so you were just immediately reminded
how instufferable the off season can and it's like this
stuff happens and you got to like.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Follow it for a day.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah you're like, ugh, no, I don't want to do this,
but yeah, no, I you know, it's not really much
of it.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
And I was trying to figure out on our show.
First of all, the problem with this was I started
to go down the day Jehn Anthony rabbit hole, and
then I forgot that I had only emptied half of
the dishwasher. So when my wife came home, I had
to explain to her I didn't finish because of Dejon
Anthony's TikTok.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, that's a tough one. That's not where you want
to be.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
No, it questions your ability to be the person responsible
for loading and unloading the dishwasher, honestly, but it.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Does set the stage for an off season where you
know who's going to be spotted at the Kenwood mall. Uh,
who just landed at CVG, Who's out to dinner? Like, man,
God love you.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, and you haven't even gotten into who said a thing?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, a trade request or the problem we even gotten
into any any of that world.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
By the way, how did you acquire that?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Did you acquire it because you proved to be good
at it at Look? Are you like a meticulous dishwasher loader?
Because there's like two kinds of people, people that are
very militant about the structure and then people who sort
of loaded like you know, mefed out raccoon or something
like that. I kind of am like that, but I'm
willing to do it, and I feel like that causes
(08:01):
a little you know, you can have problems in there.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Yeah, for whatever reason, my wife does not like that
particular chore.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I also dislike it because no dishwasher that I have
ever owned actually dries the dishes.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
And the most annoying thing in.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Life to me is if you have a bowl in
the top racket it still has water and you pull
it out and the water it spills on your foot.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Like that is my pet peeve in life.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
But I think with my wife it's like, look, I
can count on you to do maybe three things.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
This is one of them. Yeah, can you just do this?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, So it's kind of become This morning, I'm getting
ready to leave. My wife was off today home and
there's the green light on the dishwasher, and it's like, man,
before I go. So right after I was done texting
with you, I'm like, before I go, I better empty
that thing.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yeah, I have a really weird thing. I'm not sure
what this says about me. One of my one of
the most soothing sounds that I feel like I ever
hear that I enjoy most is a quiet house at
night with nothing but the dishwasher running.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
I like the sound of it running, Like when you
go up to go to bed and that's he's turn on.
It's running overnight or whatever, and I hear it. I'm
like it just it makes me feel calm.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
It gives me anxiety because when I wake up in
the morning, that's what I'm gonna have to do.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And I don't like it. That's fair.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
That's why I like. I buy a lot of paper plates.
Like we're going into areas the audience doesn't care. I
buy a lot of paper plates. Yeah, so we use
the diswasher less, so I just spend less time emptying
it because I genuinely don't like that.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I'm pro paper plates. Yeah, I'm for sure. Is this
what happens when we're not at a bar having to
have this is what happens when the defense is No,
this is too much comfort in studios. The defensive coordinator search,
to me, is boring. I'm gonna be painfully honest with you.
It's not that it's not important. What about the offensive
line coach search where you really won't know any of
the names.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Yeah, is that one. Here's here's what I'll ah. I
can tell you the defensive coordinator will be aggressive and
the offensive line coach will be intense.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
It'll be intense. Yeah, he'll be He'll be a real
football guy.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Uh, were you surprised? I guess he has added Atlanta
to his list where you at least somewhat surprised that
there wasn't maybe a a little bit more DC interest
in Lou.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I think there's I mean, I think there is.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I mean a couple when you've got enough Indy and
Atlanta's happening, and I would imagine he'll pop up as
more movement happens, right, I mean, you've got it's still
kind of stagnant until the head coach. Things start to
start moving, and so then you can see you can
see Lou sneaking in. I think he'll I think he'll
end up, you know. I think he'll end up with
(10:25):
a DC job, And I think he'll probably have talked
to four or five.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Teams when it's all said and done.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Really, I feel like that that's kind of the buzz
out there around him right now. I just think he's
well respected. And we talked about this like it doesn't
mean that either side is wrong. You know, the Bengals
needed to move on. They need a fresh voice, They
needed a change. But it wasn't because Lou suddenly became
a terrible coordinator. It just it just there's a stale
(10:53):
factor that was happening there. And I think a lot
of teams look at what Lou has been able to
do and see it as, look, you need somebody that
can game plan in the playoffs. We've watched this guy
do it with the right components. We feel like we
have the personnel that can fit him. This could be
a match and you could make it work. So you've
always felt like he's still a good coordinator. I'm not
(11:14):
stunned at all, even if even back in the middle
of the season when things were going terribly, I remember
us talking about it and the point was, yeah, they
got to move on. But I feel like he's still
gonna be a defensive cordator next year. Like it just
feels like there's just too much respect for what he
did and too much knowledge of how things just here
just kind of became untenable.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
I feel like among the many missteps I've made in
my life is not studying to become a defensive coordinator,
because it kind of feels like once you're in the
club you're in. I was thinking about that watching the
Steelers on Saturday Night with Tara Austin, and I'm like,
that's just one of those dudes. He'll probably coordinate defenses
for like nine teams by the time he's done it.
Just wink Martindale. Like these guys that just sort of
(11:55):
hop scotch around the league and maybe they go get
a college job. But defensive coordinators, it sort of feels like,
as long as you still want to work, there's a
team that'll go, yeah, we'll let you coordinate the defense.
And so I feel like Lou is in the club
and it's a hard club to get kicked out of.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
You know, Defensive coordinators and defense this as a whole.
They're kind of like kickers. Yeah, Like they're volatile, yes,
you know, like one year they're great and used and
it's just all working, and the next year it's just
not working for whatever reason.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Why.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
You're kid, you're or you're Evan McPherson, right, and you
go from the tub. And but once you're in it,
when you're one of these veteran kickers, you're never just
sitting at home not getting a call, you know, like
Will Watts is always gonna get a call, right, Okay,
no matter no matter what's going on. I mean I'm
not I'm actually a surprise Jim Breeze doesn't get more calls, right,
I mean, how many game winning kicks do you got
to make?
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Right?
Speaker 1 (12:45):
You know?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
And so like, once you're in there, I feel like
that is it's one of those things you've proven you
can do it, You've proven you're capable, and those markets
are just so unstable from year to year that it
just induces change and people just want comfort. They want
knowledge that you're gonna show up and know what the
heck's going on and not be totally overwhelmed, which makes
(13:06):
it hard to be rising defensive coordinator candidate guy. Right, Yeah,
and those guys tend to end up being really good,
Like you see a lot of big time success stories
and they quickly become the next round of head coach candidates.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
But teams are scared. It's a bigger risk.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And I think it's the interesting aspect of this discussion
when we sit here and talk about names like, you know,
whether we're talking about Wink Martindale or Eberflus or whoever.
These people that have done it before, Versus Jim Leonard
from Denver or Christian Parker is only thirty two from Philadelphia,
but he's the hot, up and coming thing on the defense,
which there's a risk in that, and you get a
(13:45):
risk being too cute trying to make the perfect play,
or just give me somebody that knows what they're doing
and can coordinate the fifteenth ranked defense. And I feel
like that's gonna be an interesting situation, not who it is, necessarily,
but which side of the coin is that Bengals landouts.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
What I enjoy most about like the first two weeks
of the season because it's it's it's like it's like
when you run into former co workers, right and you're.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Like, oh yeah, he's working over there on Channel twelve
now right, Oh yeah, okay, and you see like they'll
show on the sideline there's uh I'm trying to think
of a good example that there's Tarrell Austin right there,
there's Matt eberflush, there's there's.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Vic Fangio, Like, oh yeah, that guy's the coach of
the Broncos. Okay, they'll show him in the box and
then the kyron will have his name and it's like
I was wondering what happened to that guy? Yeah, and
so like defensive coordinators, it just so, we'll do that
with lou next year, and then whoever the Bengals higher
will do that with that guy in four or five
years when we decide and he's no good and some
other teams are like, yeah, we'll take him. Can't wait?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, waiting for Tarol Austin to be the latest time
that he takes the fall right, Pittsburgh, Right, Yeah, defense
falls apart. Well, I'm sure it's Tarol Austin's fault, of course,
same way it was here and then he backed somewhere else,
and you know, it's just it's it's the nature of it.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
All right. So the smart should I wager on Al
Golden being the guy? I'm a wager if I had
to bet on one man. There's a lot of variables
with Al Golden. I mean, I think he makes sense,
but he would be expensive. He has to not want
to do something else in college. I mean, I imagine
some if there's a college head coach or some sort
of a rays that he wants to get there.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Does he even want to come to the NFL? Does
he want to.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Stay at Notre Dame. Like, there's a lot of variables
with that to happen. There's just the connections are there obviously.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah, all right, well, but I.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Wish I wouldn't wager on it, but I do think
I you know, you'll see something, okay.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Like Tuesday morning after Notre Dame loses to Ohio State.
In the title gay, uh.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I'm not saying I'm not saying.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
That it is nineteen minutes after three o'clock. Go read
Paul's Piecethathletic dot com about the Bengals in their own
free agents. Someone to spend a few minutes on that.
When we come back. He's here till four, We're here
till five thirty. Kentucky Basketball bumps us out of the
way a half hour early. My name is Maulwgger. Glad
you are with us today on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 6 (16:06):
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Speaker 3 (16:58):
Thank you so much for listening today, Paul Dander Juniors
here until four o'clock. Go to the Athletic dot com
Paul as this is an annual exercise running through the
list of Bengals free agents, and as you pointed out, T.
Higgins is sort of a category unto himself. Yeah, I
wrote it last week. I started.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I started like doing the normal exercise that I do,
and I got about four words into starting Tea, which
last year became a four part series obviously, and I
was like, okay, stop, this is its own thing. So
I wrote I think about fourteen hundred words on Tea
last week as sort of the entire state of where
that stands, which is to say that it's wildly complicated.
(17:42):
But the other way everybody else is up there now,
which you know what's interesting going through it. You take
Tea out of the equation there and there's not a
lot to like fret about. There's not a lot to
get all been out of shape buck where the last
two years, yes, they have been very very much of
the core of those Super Bowl teams have been up
(18:03):
for debate and whether you're gonna resign them. And we've
seen this mass exod this that you know, these players
that we're still now talking about and reiterating every time
people complain about the state of the Bengals. But this
year's not as much that you know, and I think
there's decisions there and there's guys, you know, WHI talking about
j Hill and Hilton and there's players, but I feel
like it's it's not what it was where you're feeling like, man,
(18:26):
they're gonna be lettings. They have so many decisions to
make on how they're gonna let all these people walk.
Maybe it's not really like that. And if there's one,
you know, silver lining to some of the clouds that
are out there right now.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
So I agree with you, and you're right, But I
do think there are a couple of guys who are interesting.
There's also somebody. I want to give an award to.
One guy who's interesting to me is I bet if
you would have asked most fans where did Mike Hilton
rank in Pro Football Focus is grading of corners, they
would have said middle of the pack, lower part fourteenth.
(18:58):
Now I know that's based on the role that they
carved out for him as the season went on, where
he was great blitzing off the corner and great against
the run. I was dismayed. I say this here every week.
I do not want to give away your content, but
I was dismayed to a degree at how unlikely you
think it is that he comes back, Because I think
there's a role for him on the field and also
(19:20):
in the locker room.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yes, so I think he is. You're right fascinating because
I think there's two sides to this. I think internally,
they have to look at this defense and say, look,
the saving grace is gonna be all of these young
corners developing under some new coordinator who comes in with
(19:43):
a fresh voice that is kind of known for developing
young players, maybe specifically under you, whether Dax Hill, Cam Taylor,
Britt DJ Turner, Josh Newton, all those guys add in
a couple more of whatever. But I think inevitably and
they've got a lot of guys that can play the slot,
and theoretically it's like that was supposed to be Dax
Hill's job in twenty twenty five for a couple of
years now. So that said, you need them to take ownership.
(20:10):
You need them to feel, in Bolden, this is my team,
this is my secondary. It's our time is now. And
it's really hard for them to look at it that way.
If Mike Hilton's still there and this isn't a knock
on that team had like three dudes that can make
plays on defense last year and he was one of them,
(20:30):
and he made a ton of them, and he made
himself money and proof he still has value in this league.
And if you use him the right way and you're
blitzing him all the time and you're aggressive with him
off the edge and maybe you figure out ways to
pick your spots in terms of maybe it is taking
them off fielding, third down, whatever, talk about that that
there's real value with Mike Hilton still. Clearly he's so
instinctive and such a good player there. That said, though,
(20:52):
if you're worried about the entire room feeling like this
is my group, this is my team, you kind of
have to let Mike Hilton walk. And that's a hard
decision to make because on the other side of it
is everything I just said and people that love Mike
Hilton and understand what he is as a core of
you know, the team and the fabric. But at some
(21:15):
point you got to move it on. And when you're
having a new coordinator coming in and all this new
feel that you want to have, it felt the reason
I popped his percentage down. It felt a little out
of place to still have him around. And that's not
about Mike Hilton. Yeah, like that, that is not about
Mike Hilton, the player that is about the Cincinnati Bengals defense.
(21:35):
The situation, I think that's what makes it a really
hard decision, and amongst the hardest on that entire list.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
You had him a twenty five percent. Yeah, that's the situation.
I genuinely want you to be wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I genuinely think that the future and the immediate future
for this defense is going young and really leaning into
the young players, specifically in the secondary, and again adding
more that can take this thing over. And it's just
it's hard to do that until you clear the deck.
(22:09):
You see that with like when they had to get
rid of Carlos Dunlap and Geno Atkins for Sam Hubbard
to feel like a leader and a captain. You know,
like this happens all the time. You just you kind
of have to clear that deck. And I feel like,
but you had Sam Hubbard and you knew he could
be a captain. You're replacing Mike Hilton with Dax Hill
and Cam Taylor Britt and Josh Newton and DJ Turner.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
You're right, like they're in a bad place mode.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
But I mean, like, you know, the Carlos Dunlap thing
kind of got sideways.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
At the end.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
But like you, you knew what you had in Sam Hubbard.
You knew at least you know who. You maybe didn't
know how good of a player he was going to become,
but you knew, Okay, here's a guy, this is a dude,
this is a bye and this is a culture guy.
This is a future captain.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
You knew.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Can I say that about any one of those other
corners right now.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Not with the certainty you could about saym Hubbard. But
I think there's real belief in those guys in terms
of the people that they are, how much it matters
to them, and the confidence that they can play with
if it feels like they've been given that confidence, you know.
An example of this on the flip side is what
happened at Safety this past year with Jordan Battle. I
(23:18):
feel like when they brought Von Bell back, it really
beat Jordan Battle up mentally to be like, they don't
even see me as the guy, and these are young
kids that need that confidence. Rookie season, yes, it felt
like he had earned the right, not earned the right,
but it felt like it was his time in year
(23:39):
two to be the guy. Okay, And then they brought
in Von Bell and they put in this former captain
over top of him, and so what happened He kind
of lost all his momentum and felt like, man, they
don't even see me as a young kids can be
affected and confidence can go one of two ways. And
if you aren't clearing the space for these guys to
(24:02):
dive headfirst into this being their time and their career
and there's no one in front of you now, then
you can stunt their growth. And I think that's that's
a position that you find yourself in right now with
this team, is which which side do you want to
go in the proven playmaker and the guy who's been
such a good player and a guy in something you know,
or clear the runway and hope these guys.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Run I want to have I want to I'm late here,
so I'm going to break in. But there's one more
pending free agent that I want to discuss, and then
we have to create an award. You know, we have
the Mulger Award. Yeah, during training time winner Andre Yoshi,
and we've determined Andre can't win it anymore. Okay, well
that'll that's a topic for July. But there's another award
I want to hand out and maybe we'll name it
(24:44):
after the person we're going to give it to. We'll
get to that when we come back. He's Paul Danner,
Junior at the Athletic dot Com and The Growler Podcast.
Here till four o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 7 (24:56):
SINCY three sixty with Tony Pike. We want to move on,
have to keep going and Boston Elmore.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I think you should contind let me keep going down.
Speaker 7 (25:04):
Sincy three sixty Tomorrow at twelve News on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 5 (25:11):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. Traffic from the.
Speaker 6 (25:16):
UC Health Traffic Center. Don't let injury slow you down.
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Speaker 3 (26:04):
Xavier looking to make it two straight wins as they
take on Eric Dickson in the Phalandeva Wildcats a game
from Cintas Center at seven on seven hundred I'm sorry,
six thirty. Tip off on seven hundred WLW. Tonight on
ESPN fifteen thirty, we have Kentucky and Texas A and
m Pregame coverage starts at five thirty. Miami's at Northern Illinois,
Ohio State Battles Wisconsin, Indiana will host Illinois. The Columbus
(26:29):
Blue Jackets, looking for a fifth consecutive win, take on
the Philadelphia Flyers tonight. Paul Danner Junior is here from
the Athletic dot Com. Is there any Bengals news today,
I mean today. No, don't put in the headlines.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
No, I don't think there's anything any news today. Okay,
not in the most newsy time.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
No, no, not just waiting to find out till that
doin drops. Yeah, coordinator search one more on your list
of free agents, which folks should go read at the
Athletic dot Com. Reading your blurb on Mike Kasiki means
I'm he's not a tight end.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
He's not.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
I mean that was. They didn't use him as such, right,
Like the biggest misnomer, I think that's the word you use.
The biggest misnomer is that guy is a tight end?
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, right?
Speaker 3 (27:14):
And so he was a productive wide receiver for the
Bengals this year.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
He was when T Higgins was not on the field,
he was the clear by a long way number two option.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
So there's a strong case that could be made for T.
Higgins to be on the team next year, which we've
talked about occasionally occasionally, And there's a very strong case
that you could look at Mike Kasicki's body of work
and want that guy back next season.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Can they have both? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:41):
And can one basically be the replacement for the other?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I think I think it's it's a couple aspects to it. One,
if T goes, you have to bring back Kasiki and
now a little more affordable. But you have to because
you know that he was really what helped keep them
afloat without Tea this year, and they got They were
really creative and and as good as it gets at
(28:07):
finding ways to use the weapons that they have and
and make it all fit together. Whereas you know, a
lot of teams I think looked at Kasiki and really
focused on what he couldn't do as a as a.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Blocker or whatever.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
They really focused on what he did well, and they
just leaned into that all the way, and that was him.
I think it ended up at nine percent about of
in line snaps, yeah, which was the most, the least
amongst tight ends.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
The second number would have gone down if Eric All
would have stayed health right.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Second second least in the NFL was Mark Andrews at
almost twenty percent. So again that was just like, this
guy's a receiver. He's a really good receiver. Let's use
him as a big body receiver. And he kind of
developed and evolved into the Tea replacement when T was out.
So I think that's the part of it. But there's
no reason they can't bring them both back. You know,
something that stuck out to to me about Kasiki when
(28:57):
we were talking to him at locker cleanout day was
in pointing out like, look, I mean, I'm not gonna
say it's all about the money, but I did kind
of miss a couple of contracts the last couple of
years while I was dealing with whatever happened at the
end of Miami and the non usage in New England.
So he is looking to make up for lost time
a little bit and will. But will other teams see
(29:18):
the value in what he did here? Will they be
willing to pay him? Where does his market end up?
And I think that's I think you can have both.
I don't know they will end up with both, but
you can't. You certainly can, but they you know, he's
bringing him back certainly far down the list of priorities
when you start talking about the defense and the guard
(29:38):
play and all the other stuff.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
We also forgot about my guy Eric Hall. I didn't
forget about Eric, but it's interesting if you talk about
like the least talked about player in the second half
of the season, as we discussed guys who could have
an impact next year, Like who did love everything they
saw from Eric Hall?
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (29:54):
What he was healthy? Now back to back significant knee
injuries makes you have some pause. But like when I
watched that guy play, I said it to you, like
that's a dude, Like that's a guy.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
He changed.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
He changed the way they constructed their offense. And I
think a lot of the issues that you saw happen
with them in the run game and in short yardage
and them just leaning all the way into throwing at
every single snap essentially a special second half a season
was a direct result of losing air call. They were
willing to lean into that run game more.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
When he was there.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
They were getting great stuff out of him and out
of it, and it was allowed them to creatively, you know,
find space on the ground with an offensive line that
wasn't exactly plowing open enough holes. And so if you
bring him into the equation again, if with the medical
being a big part of this, how how effective is
he going to be?
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Can he stay healthy?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
If you can do that, it's it's a game changer
for the way they could operate. You could make an
argument at that point then if you could get another
air call type in this draft, you go out there
and become a twelve personnel team as a reaction if
you were to lose teague, Okay, you could come out
there and say Eric All and a first or second
round tight end and put those guys both out there together,
(31:09):
and and now now you're kind of cooking a little
bit more of a power team off of what you're doing.
All of that would be a reaction to the one
main thing that everything starts with, which is the trio
technically of t Jamar and Joel the other one.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
And this is if you asked. If you asked, I
think more casual fans to name the players that have
been here since Zach Taylor's first game. They'll they'll mention
Sam Hubbard, and I think they'll mention Jermaine Pratt, and
they might have to think for a second. They'll go
Drew Sample. Most won't say Travion Wins. This dude has
played in the NFL for six years. As you pointed out,
(31:47):
he has managed only sixty two carries. This guy is
my hero. You can name the award after me. Work
for a long time in the same place and accomplish
nothing to go like legitimately, this could be the Mulleger
Award Part two. Right, Hey, this dude is I give
it up to this guy twenty seven years old. He's
made a nice chunk of change for himself. He has
managed to avoid injury. He has made no real impact.
(32:11):
The guy could walk into most sports bars in town,
no one have any idea, and I applaud this. I
think he hasn't gotten in trouble. He hasn't said the
wrong thing, he hasn't cried about playing time. He's done
nothing stupid in a game. There's been no nothing against
the guy, but no Dejon Anthony moment where he's got
to live down this awful mistake on the field, like nothing.
Six years, he's made almost five and a half million dollars,
(32:33):
He's got his health. He can go play in the
NFL somewhere next year. Maybe it's with the Bengals. This
is the sort of thing that should be celebrated. I'm
the guy that so I love longevity. But if you
could accomplish longevity and also accomplish little else, which is
basically my career in a nutshell, awesome.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
I feel like Trevion's kind of like the company culture higher.
You know, it's like, look a great dude. Everybody likes him,
shows up on time, does everything the wrong the right way,
nice guy. Not super sure what his impact is around here,
Yeah it does. But people really like him, yes, and
he really is a good dude. You should just keep
him around. He's such a nice guy and like makes
(33:11):
everybody feel better, and and you just kind of you
just kind of want to root for a guy like that.
You know.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
That's that's what trade yard is. Yere six male, six.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Years like and I guess in the back of my
mind I knew that, but it wasn't until I read this,
and I'm like, six years, sixty two carries. He's been
been active for the overwhelming majority of those games, right, Yeah,
like awesome.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
I want him back?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Made me your favorite Travan Williams kickoff return, can't I
want him back? Seven years?
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I want to row it?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Ye, how long can it go? Average ten carries a season,
let's go. I'm rooting like hell for this guy during
training campus is gonna be all I'm talking about. Who's
Who's Trayveon? Gotta fend off? Who's Trayvon gotta fend off?
To be the third running back and never play.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I don't know if he's gonna be back. I don't
feel good about it. I feel like, I mean, six
was asking a lot. I mean, okay, he got the
six the bank. You and I have joked about this
in the past. They have two type of press releases
for when they release a player. There's the sort of
like single line or in some cases, multiple paragraph quick statement.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
With no quote from coach, owner, anybody else. Travon Williams,
I want Mike Brown, I want Duke Coben, I want
Zach Taylor. I want all of his position coaches, because
he's had multiple Give me a teammate or two, give
me a Burrow quote. This should be celebrated. I need
a thank you video on at Bengals. It's gonna be
hard to show moments. I've got grant you that, Yeah,
(34:33):
but they've got to have, you know, a few still
shots of him standing on the sideline cheering for his teammates. This,
this is the sort of thing that should be celebrated.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
I think you should be quoted in it. You should.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
It should be a whole portion of the press release
just talking about the Trevion Williams Award. How it's been
amazing to actually watch him grow into this role.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah. How he's been a.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Motivator for you know what player, what number he wears.
But I'm gonna get his jersey thirty two. Yeah, I'm
gonna get. He's my new favorite, my third favorite all
time Boomer Blake, Trayvon Way, my free all time favorite Bengals.
You play in this day and at that position, that
position where they're constantly churning and looking for guys.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Every sixth round pick running back is like worth a
pick where the flyer they becomes, somebody send them all off.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
God love you. This is amazing, amazing, what an amazing career.
All right, I uh, I want to spend a few
minutes on a four part series. You could do this
coming off season. Okay, you've got an idea. I think
it's a pretty obvious idea. And then can we talk
about the Steelers a little bit?
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
You just want to take some shots at Mike Tomland
on you yeah, Marvin Tomlin, yes, Marvin yeah, absolutely, and
uh and Russell Dalton Yes.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Eleven away from a four o'clock ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty traffic from the.
Speaker 6 (35:54):
UC Health Traffic Center. Don't let injury slow you down.
The uc Health Orthopedics in Sports Edison experts can help
keep you moving. Schedule a same day appointment at UCHealth
dot com. There's a few problem arias to watch out
for as you make your afternoon commute. There's an accident
on Paddock Road between Tennessee Avenue and Nordwood Lateral Expressway,
and beware of an accident on Infirmary Road at Pinnacle Road.
(36:17):
Police on the scene. Watch out for delays in that area.
There's still a few problem areas causing some delays to
you after word commute. Watch out for that disabled vehicle
that has the right lane blocked on seventy one seventy
five southbound after Buttermilk Pike Police on the scene. Watch
out for delays. There's also an ongoing accident on Infirmary
Road at Pinnacle Road. Police on the scene there as well.
That disabled vehicle is finally cleared on six seventy five
(36:39):
northbound at Wilmington Pike on Monjre Jones with traffic.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
This report is sponsored by Staple Stores
Mo Egger News
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