January 20, 2026 • 8 mins
Attorney Stuart W. Penrose of Minnillo Law Group joins us every week to discuss sports and the law. This week we discussed the wide-ranging college basketball point-shaving scandal and the legal ramifications for the people allegedly involved.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Station ESPN fifteen thirty twenty five from five o'clock. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty Moegger. We'll do sports headlines, of
which there aren't many here in just a bit. On Tuesdays,
we talk about the sports and the law with our
friend Stewart W. Penrose from Manilo Lawgroup. You can learn
(00:21):
more at manilolawgroup dot com. Last week we spend a
little bit of time on this the big college basketball
point shaving scandal, which has enveloped a lot of programs
at the low major and mid major level. It's pretty widespread,
the evidence seems to be pretty damning for everybody involved,
and so I wanted to ask questions of our legal expert.
(00:44):
Stewart is with us. It's good to have you as always, sir.
How are you doing great?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Most thanks for having.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Me ie O hands here. Yeah, we do, we do.
And so whenever I see federal indictment and I'm painting
with a very broad brush here, but whenever I see
federal and I think, uh, oh, ironclad case. One that's
hard to get out of. Is that assumption a fair
one that if I see federal indictment, you know what
the Feds don't lose, So the people who have been
(01:12):
indicted here are screwed. Is that a fair assumption, It's.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
It's not a dishonest assumption. The Seds don't bring weak cases,
but no kings is an automatic lock. I mean mo
generally speaking, when when when federal prosecutors final final charges
for uh, you know, wire fraud is typically after months
and sometimes years of investigations. You know, by the time
these the rest happen, they typically have one or more
(01:39):
cooperating witnesses, wire tasks, text messages, UH, there could be
betting records, bank transfers, So I mean their their batting
average is extremely high, and they're not going to go
in blindly, and it's with a lot of investigation and
usually a lot of concrete evidence uh before they bring
down these charges.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Can cases like this even be prosecuted at the state
and local level.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
State ten states prosecute sports biber bribery, gaming related fraud, conspiracy.
But the set step in when it's when best cross
state lines online sportsbooks are involved. I mean mode typically speaking,
if there are phones, text messages, apps, banking systems, those
tend to cross state lines. And you know, once you
(02:24):
cross state lines, it becomes a federal issue, and for prosecution,
you know, federal course preferred. There's broader jurisdiction, The penalties
are much harsher as well too, and they have more
resources and more investigative tools.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Uh, walk me through the specific charges involved here and
what what the people involved are potentially looking at in
terms of punishment.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Sure, well, first and foremost, I mean the court charge
here is wire fraud. And you know you might be asking,
you know, I hear the term all the time. You
know what's wire fraud? You know, essentially three elements. You know,
there's got to be a scheme to defraud, intend, to
decize and the use of interstate wires, whether those be
you know, phone calls, texts, apps, internet basically if you
(03:13):
use the phone, uh text or betting that to you know,
to rig outcomes or manipulating betting betting lines, that's wire fraud.
And that's and those are the accusations here. You know,
there are the charges conspiracy, money laundering, bribery, illegal gambling.
But you know, the wire fraud is the is the
main crust of it here.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So you have a lot of folks involved here. You
have a lot of current and former men's college basketball players.
What happens if the people name decide to cooperate with
the prosecution.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Well, the I'm sure most of the athletes will a
lot of times in the sex the cases MO when
there's big schemes, it's kind of a rate to the
prosecutor's office. Let's be honest here. The players are the
are the ponds and the system. They're the small you know,
they're the small people at the bottom of the totem pole.
It is certainly in their best interest to cooperate and
give information.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
If you cooperate, there can be reduced charges, drop charges,
There could be significant reductions in your sentence, sometimes no
jail time at all, particularly for these you know, for
these players, they're low level pawns, you know. The government,
you know, well, they they're going to get everybody. They
want to get the people at the top, you know,
first and foremost, those are the big fish at the
end of the day. So, uh, certainly folks are going
(04:26):
to want to cooperate and testify. And the sooner they
do and the more information they provide, uh, the lighter
that things are going to go for them.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
This is maybe a dumb question, will not be the
first one or a last one that I've asked. But
you you know, you can you can find evidence that
a that a college basketball player agreed to shave points
right if they're texting, you know, that sort of thing.
But can you actually prove that a player went through
Can you and a court of law prove that a
player wasn't trying his best to help his team win?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Well, they're going to use messages that the players have
sent to you know that the folks that they were
working with, and you know, my understanding from some of
the articles and some of the news that broke out
is you know that they talked to the conspirators and
the folks that were paying them. Hey, I tried doing this,
I tried doing that, And certainly their words can be
used against them. And I'm sure that there are ways,
(05:18):
you know, to try and improve that in court. I'm
sure that there are ways by you know, looking at
film and doing things besides just the messages. But when
you have messages and you have texts and emails that
are pretty damning, you know, it's it's not good for
the player.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, So the basketball players themselves, if convicted, what sort
of punishment, what kind of time are they maybe looking at.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Technically speaking, why or frog carries up the twenty years
in prison? I mean that said, No, I mean no
judge is going to look to throw a you know,
a pawn in this system, a college athlete in prison
for twenty years over this could prison time being the table,
Yes it can, but more than likely the you know,
these young kids, these young athletes are going to work
(06:02):
with the prosecution, work with the investigators with the aid
of their attorney, to give information and cut deals that
you know very well could keep them out of prison.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
So you obviously have a lot of folks who are
worried that this, with the proliferation of legal gambling, that
this is going to become kind of a common thing
that we have to deal with these stories all the time.
So could a judge, for instance, decide, you know what,
because I don't want there to be more cases like this,
I'm going to make an example of the athletes involved
(06:34):
here and have found guilty, punish them, for lack of
a better term, excessively in an effort to make an
example out of them.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
You could you could always have a judge go road
that said, there still are sent unseen guidelines. Most of
these players probably have little to know criminal records whatsoever.
There are still guidelines that you have. Whereas if you
have somebody in front of you with a long criminal
record that you know has more contact with the cord
(07:05):
and you know it's higher risk, you know that person
is likely to receive a longer sentence. It's probably unlikely
a judge goes rogue on a young college athlete here.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, makes sense. Stuart W. Penrose, Attorney, Manila Lawgroup dot com.
I have a feeling there's going to be more cases
like this, and so it's going to be good to
have you, as we say in the legal profession, as
you say in the legal profession on retainer. Awesome stuff
as always, Man, thanks so much, Thank you, Bo. That's
our guy, Stuart W. Penrose. You can learn more about
(07:35):
the Manila Law Group at Manila Lawgroup dot com. It's
eighteen away from five o'clock. Sports headlines involved basically this, uh.
There's a couple of college basketball games in the area. Tonight,
Miami is on the road against ken State. The RedHawks
looking for a twentieth consecutive victory after their overtime win
thrilling overtime win over Buffalo on Saturday. That game will
(07:59):
tip off to Ohio at seven o'clock tonight. Meanwhile, college
basketball in the area, Ohio State takes on Minnesota. Indiana's
on the road against Michigan Hockey tonight. The Blue Jackets
looked for a fifth consecutive victory, skating with and against Ottawa.
There you go, seventeen away from five o'clock five one, three, seven,
(08:20):
four nine. Fifteen thirty is our phone number. We will
grab a couple of phone calls when we come back.
On ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports station
Station ESPN fifteen thirty twenty five from five o'clock. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty Moegger. We'll do sports headlines, of
which there aren't many here in just a bit. On Tuesdays,
we talk about the sports and the law with our
friend Stewart W. Penrose from Manilo Lawgroup. You can learn
(00:21):
more at manilolawgroup dot com. Last week we spend a
little bit of time on this the big college basketball
point shaving scandal, which has enveloped a lot of programs
at the low major and mid major level. It's pretty widespread,
the evidence seems to be pretty damning for everybody involved,
and so I wanted to ask questions of our legal expert.
(00:44):
Stewart is with us. It's good to have you as always, sir.
How are you doing great?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Most thanks for having.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Me ie O hands here. Yeah, we do, we do.
And so whenever I see federal indictment and I'm painting
with a very broad brush here, but whenever I see
federal and I think, uh, oh, ironclad case. One that's
hard to get out of. Is that assumption a fair
one that if I see federal indictment, you know what
the Feds don't lose, So the people who have been
(01:12):
indicted here are screwed. Is that a fair assumption, It's.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
It's not a dishonest assumption. The Seds don't bring weak cases,
but no kings is an automatic lock. I mean mo
generally speaking, when when when federal prosecutors final final charges
for uh, you know, wire fraud is typically after months
and sometimes years of investigations. You know, by the time
these the rest happen, they typically have one or more
(01:39):
cooperating witnesses, wire tasks, text messages, UH, there could be
betting records, bank transfers, So I mean their their batting
average is extremely high, and they're not going to go
in blindly, and it's with a lot of investigation and
usually a lot of concrete evidence uh before they bring
down these charges.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Can cases like this even be prosecuted at the state
and local level.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
State ten states prosecute sports biber bribery, gaming related fraud, conspiracy.
But the set step in when it's when best cross
state lines online sportsbooks are involved. I mean mode typically speaking,
if there are phones, text messages, apps, banking systems, those
tend to cross state lines. And you know, once you
(02:24):
cross state lines, it becomes a federal issue, and for prosecution,
you know, federal course preferred. There's broader jurisdiction, The penalties
are much harsher as well too, and they have more
resources and more investigative tools.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Uh, walk me through the specific charges involved here and
what what the people involved are potentially looking at in
terms of punishment.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Sure, well, first and foremost, I mean the court charge
here is wire fraud. And you know you might be asking,
you know, I hear the term all the time. You
know what's wire fraud? You know, essentially three elements. You know,
there's got to be a scheme to defraud, intend, to
decize and the use of interstate wires, whether those be
you know, phone calls, texts, apps, internet basically if you
(03:13):
use the phone, uh text or betting that to you know,
to rig outcomes or manipulating betting betting lines, that's wire fraud.
And that's and those are the accusations here. You know,
there are the charges conspiracy, money laundering, bribery, illegal gambling.
But you know, the wire fraud is the is the
main crust of it here.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So you have a lot of folks involved here. You
have a lot of current and former men's college basketball players.
What happens if the people name decide to cooperate with
the prosecution.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Well, the I'm sure most of the athletes will a
lot of times in the sex the cases MO when
there's big schemes, it's kind of a rate to the
prosecutor's office. Let's be honest here. The players are the
are the ponds and the system. They're the small you know,
they're the small people at the bottom of the totem pole.
It is certainly in their best interest to cooperate and
give information.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
If you cooperate, there can be reduced charges, drop charges,
There could be significant reductions in your sentence, sometimes no
jail time at all, particularly for these you know, for
these players, they're low level pawns, you know. The government,
you know, well, they they're going to get everybody. They
want to get the people at the top, you know,
first and foremost, those are the big fish at the
end of the day. So, uh, certainly folks are going
(04:26):
to want to cooperate and testify. And the sooner they
do and the more information they provide, uh, the lighter
that things are going to go for them.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
This is maybe a dumb question, will not be the
first one or a last one that I've asked. But
you you know, you can you can find evidence that
a that a college basketball player agreed to shave points
right if they're texting, you know, that sort of thing.
But can you actually prove that a player went through
Can you and a court of law prove that a
player wasn't trying his best to help his team win?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Well, they're going to use messages that the players have
sent to you know that the folks that they were
working with, and you know, my understanding from some of
the articles and some of the news that broke out
is you know that they talked to the conspirators and
the folks that were paying them. Hey, I tried doing this,
I tried doing that, And certainly their words can be
used against them. And I'm sure that there are ways,
(05:18):
you know, to try and improve that in court. I'm
sure that there are ways by you know, looking at
film and doing things besides just the messages. But when
you have messages and you have texts and emails that
are pretty damning, you know, it's it's not good for
the player.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, So the basketball players themselves, if convicted, what sort
of punishment, what kind of time are they maybe looking at.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Technically speaking, why or frog carries up the twenty years
in prison? I mean that said, No, I mean no
judge is going to look to throw a you know,
a pawn in this system, a college athlete in prison
for twenty years over this could prison time being the table,
Yes it can, but more than likely the you know,
these young kids, these young athletes are going to work
(06:02):
with the prosecution, work with the investigators with the aid
of their attorney, to give information and cut deals that
you know very well could keep them out of prison.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
So you obviously have a lot of folks who are
worried that this, with the proliferation of legal gambling, that
this is going to become kind of a common thing
that we have to deal with these stories all the time.
So could a judge, for instance, decide, you know what,
because I don't want there to be more cases like this,
I'm going to make an example of the athletes involved
(06:34):
here and have found guilty, punish them, for lack of
a better term, excessively in an effort to make an
example out of them.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
You could you could always have a judge go road
that said, there still are sent unseen guidelines. Most of
these players probably have little to know criminal records whatsoever.
There are still guidelines that you have. Whereas if you
have somebody in front of you with a long criminal
record that you know has more contact with the cord
(07:05):
and you know it's higher risk, you know that person
is likely to receive a longer sentence. It's probably unlikely
a judge goes rogue on a young college athlete here.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, makes sense. Stuart W. Penrose, Attorney, Manila Lawgroup dot com.
I have a feeling there's going to be more cases
like this, and so it's going to be good to
have you, as we say in the legal profession, as
you say in the legal profession on retainer. Awesome stuff
as always, Man, thanks so much, Thank you, Bo. That's
our guy, Stuart W. Penrose. You can learn more about
(07:35):
the Manila Law Group at Manila Lawgroup dot com. It's
eighteen away from five o'clock. Sports headlines involved basically this, uh.
There's a couple of college basketball games in the area. Tonight,
Miami is on the road against ken State. The RedHawks
looking for a twentieth consecutive victory after their overtime win
thrilling overtime win over Buffalo on Saturday. That game will
(07:59):
tip off to Ohio at seven o'clock tonight. Meanwhile, college
basketball in the area, Ohio State takes on Minnesota. Indiana's
on the road against Michigan Hockey tonight. The Blue Jackets
looked for a fifth consecutive victory, skating with and against Ottawa.
There you go, seventeen away from five o'clock five one, three, seven,
(08:20):
four nine. Fifteen thirty is our phone number. We will
grab a couple of phone calls when we come back.
On ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports station
Mo Egger News
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