January 20, 2026 • 41 mins
Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us to discuss the changes other AFC teams have made and the changes the Bengals haven't, Dan Pitcher's future, Orlando Brown's present and future, and whether Nick Lachey's tweets are actually news.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Right now at Mulllegger on Twitter thanks to share Facts
Credit Union. I am thrilled that you are here, thanks
to Chad Rendell for pinchitting yesterday. If you had a
free day weekend, hopefully you enjoyed it. Weeks off to
a good start. Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic is here.
Later on, we'll get to Elie Dela Cruz and Tito
Francona and the Reds offense, and we'll talk to Miami
(00:22):
and Kent State point shaving with our guys Stuart W.
Penrose from Manila Law Group, and of course thoughts on
the college football Playoff national championship tilt last night won
by the Indiana Hoosiers. If you're an IU fan and
IU grad, congratulations, it's the coolest story in sports history.
We'll get to all of that a little bit later on,
but Paul's here from the Athletic and the Growler podcast.
(00:46):
How is it going?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It's going great.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Do you know when I was in college I did
a thesis on point shaving in college basketball?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Really yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
It was sparked because I thought that the leading scorer
for OU's basketball team was shaving points and I wanted
to try I expose it. Yeah, that was not the
case as far as I could tell, although I have
my theories. But I did learn a lot about the
history of point shaving and Headache Smith and Kentucky from
back in the fifties. Of course, now you can fill
ten times as many books just in the last couple
(01:16):
of years compared to what there was then. But if
you want to know any more, I've got I've got
lots of background.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Here is the thesis available? Is it published? Is it
something I can access? I mean, I hope did you
mention your Did you mention the OU player by name?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I would like not to say his name, but if
you look up the leading scores from two thousand and
one to two thousand and three at Ohi University, you
could probably figure out.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Wow, so you could be my point shaving guy. I mean,
is that the beat you want?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
At this point? I might take it understood, But yeah, no,
I'm here for whatever you need a.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Little bit later on, I'm gonna I'm going to tell
you the move. I wish the Bengals weren't a position
to make little tease that is set. No not, But
in that instance, maybe I peaked your interest.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yes, I am interested in that.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Perhaps the audiences as well. There's a lot of stuff.
We got a lot to get to. Yah, let's start
with the striking contrast, which is something we talked about
a little bit on your podcast this morning. So the
Buffalo Bills they got Josh Allen. Josh Allen's an MVP quarterback.
Josh Allen's an A lister, Josh Allen's a star. He
is one of the faces of the league. The Buffalo
(02:28):
Bills haven't won a Super Bowl with him, so they
said to the coach, thanks for everything, deuces seeya. The
Baltimore Ravens have a two time MVP quarterback, Lamar Jackson
bona fide star right this year. Maybe not himself, perhaps
more physically compromised than he was letting on. He did
miss games, but Lamar Jackson is a star. He was
paired with a coach who was quickly hired by the
(02:51):
New York Giants, a guy who might be in the
Hall of Fame one day. But the Baltimore Ravens said,
we can't wait anymore. See you, John Harball. Thanks enjoy
New Jersey. The Cincinnati Bengals have a quarterback like that.
Granted not been an MVP, but he has played in
a Super Bowl. But he's been an MVP finalist twice,
two time comeback Player of the Year, bona fide star
has a claim to the title of best quarterback in
(03:13):
the sport. And the Cincinnati Bengals said, we're cool, Zach,
You're good. You two are together. That contrast to me
is striking absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I mean, it's been interesting.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
You have the AFC had this this thing going with
Mahomes and Reed and Zach, Taylor and Burrow and Harbaugh
and Jackson and of course Allan and McDermott. I mean,
for the longest time these were that wasn't changing. And
I even right before at the end of this season,
we were talking about how interesting is when you look
at the coaches about how these quarterbacks have kept their
(03:45):
coaches connections going. Really, whatever's been going on there, there's
no doubt about it. What is happening now in the
upheaval in the league and the ten open jobs and
the high profile coaches that have left now with franchise quarterbacks,
it only does what everything seems to be doing. The
(04:06):
theme right now is okay, you want to be your
team continuity.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
That's the thing. This is it.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
That pressure could not be more on everything to happen
this year because you're just not going to get now.
Who knows, it's the Bengals, so whatever, it could go
on forever, but like it does, it does really feel
like this time like this is it. I mean, this
is your It's either you can do it or you're
going to be like the rest of these And the difference,
(04:34):
I will say when you analyze what's happening here one
coming off a year where you didn't have Burrow for
the whole time, so who knows what it looks like.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
But that said, I.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Think your job ends up being so much about managing
your quarterback relationship and managing up This job has since
Marvin Lewis showed up day one been about managing and
helping everything get as much done as you can and
deal with all of that. I think Zach Taylor has
a good relationship obviously with ownership to still be here
(05:10):
at this point. Yeah, and obviously with Joe Burrow to
still be here at this point. I think those are
the two things that John Harbaugh and Sean McDermott did
not have and it cost them now for whatever reason.
How much should that matter. We can all debate that,
but if you're asking me the difference in this particular moment,
I think that got those guys and at some point, yes,
(05:33):
you have to win. They were there, you know, longer
than Zach's been here. But it's understood at this point.
I mean, you only get so many shots when you
have the franchise quarterback, when you have him in full
But yeah, that man, the pile. It just keeps keeping
everything that's happening, everything that has happened in recent years,
the conjecture from Joe, the movement in the league, a
(05:57):
division that now will have all new head coaches around
the AFC and upheaval. It's just Zach Taylor and Andy
Reid are the only guys that have really been around here.
All of the continuity that they're selling and bringing back,
and the support statement. Everything that has happened since the
season has ended has pointed.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
To extreme pressure cooker.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Of twenty twenty six season.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
And this is it, man, because otherwise you're going to
go the same way that the rest of the league
is going.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
We will see ultimately what the result of the coaching
searches in the three AFC North Cities are. But is
there a world because I think there is where the
Bengals are considered AFC North favorites before the season.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah, well because who I mean, Pittsburgh is not a
good job. No, Pittsburgh is a great job theoretically in
a you can keep this job for a long time.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
But all of those coaches had almost immediate success. So
when I say, all, let's talk about Kawer and Tomlin,
they lived off the instant success they had.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yes, that's part of it. And also when you take
that job, I think you're the reason that it was time.
There is it's hard reset time in Pittsburgh. They got
to figure out a way to say the rosters old,
the quarterback situation needs to get a long term solution.
If you're if you're cutting ties, if the Tomlin move
happens now, that is you know, let's reset the game. Okay,
(07:21):
And so that's not a great job. How is a
new per new coach gonna mesh with Lamar Jackson and
both like, I don't know, it's obviously not going to
be Cleveland that you're gonna be so so yeah, I
mean I don't to this in this moment. They should
be yes, this should be. It is setting up for
them to make their run. I mean, it's this is
(07:44):
this is what you ask for, and so yeah, can
you should they? Yes, they should be favorites to win
the AFC North from the get go, which does what
only adds more pressure. Again, like all of this, all
of this is that it's all this one pie. This
is what it all is. It's like, okay, twenty twenty
six or all bets are off with absolutely everything happening internally.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I was watching people fight on the internet, and I'm
as I've gotten older, I'm more of a watch people
fight than I am jump into the fray I enjoy sometimes,
not that often, but I was watching people fight about
Mike Tomlin, fighting over whether or not he would would
take the Bengals job if it comes open next year.
And the one person was making the argument that there's
(08:30):
no way that Mike Tomlin would want to work for
the Brown family. And I thought about that, and I said,
you know, these are two family run franchises. And when
I read stuff out of Pittsburgh, or when I listen
to shows like this out of Pittsburgh, it sounds like
the Bengals are being talked about or I read some
of the same things I read about the Bengals that
outdated facilities and mom and pop franchise and stubborn and
(08:54):
obstinate and set in their ways and frugal to a fault.
This is not a conversation about Mike tomlell. But you
talked about the Steelers job. I believe this. Say what
you want about the prestige of that franchise and what
the Steelers historically have accomplished. Those two franchises have more
in common at the ownership level than I think people realize.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
The biggest thing that differentiates the two of them is
the history.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, I mean, at this point, if you want to
look back in the last fifteen years, the last ten years,
in the recent history, the franchises have operated similarly. They've
had similar problems. Mike Tomlin is going through the same
thing now that Marvin Lewis went through. I mean, it's
very very similar paths. They have a similar ownership group
that is adjusting and trying to figure out how to
(09:45):
act and survive and sustain in an NFL world that
is changing what ownership looks like around them. For better
or for worse right, and I just I think there's
adjustments in that. I think there is a lot more similarities.
I think you're exactly right, but the history and the
respect that comes with what they have been and and
(10:05):
I think a way that they go about certain things,
but they do things that they this is the Steeler
way that I unequivocally do not agree with in terms
of the money they spend to older players, right, the
heavy lean into like just defense all the time and
not realizing it's an offensive league, and in the churning
of the quarterback situation. Like, there's a lot of stuff
(10:26):
that they do that they have always done that I
don't necessarily agree with the same way. They would be
things that you would look at the way the Bengals
do it that that the normal NFL franchise is not
going to agree with. In that respect, I think you're right,
Like they operate in distinct kind of unique ways, their
own unique ways, but unique ways to the bigger NFL landscape.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Watching people fight on the internet, if you do it
in small doses, can bring an amount of joy to
you that I think is rare when you when you
when you go online.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, yeah, I think I like it most when you
do jump in that is kind of yes, no, because
you it's clearly reluctantly, but it's clear also that you
have a joke so good you just have to get
it off. Yeah, you know, you're like, I just I
you know, it's not in your best interest. Like every
(11:19):
time I see you do it, I'm like, he knows
he shouldn't do this right now. Yes, but you're like,
but the joke's too good. Yeah, get passed on the joke.
And that's what I respect about you. When you got
the good joke, you're willing to get it off no
matter what the fallout could be.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
We have finally found something you respect about me. So,
Dan Pitcher is a valued member of the Cincinnati Bengals,
yet they may let him leave for the same job.
This doesn't make any sense. We'll talk about it when
we come back. Paul Danner Junior's here from The Athletic
and the Growler Podcast. Follow him at Paul Danner Junior.
The latest edition of The Growler Podcast released just a
(11:54):
short while ago. Seventeen minutes after three Paul's here till four,
We are here toll six on SPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station twenty two minutes after three o'clock. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty on Moeger. Thanks for listening. Paul Dayner
Junior is here from The Athletic and the Growler podcast.
He has written about the list of possible cat casualties,
(12:19):
and we're going to get to that here in a bit.
Go read it at the Athletic dot com. Let's spend
some time on Dan Pitcher. Okay, you're big on Dan Pitcher, man.
You think Dan Pitcher should be interviewed by all these
teams who need a head coach was interviewed by one. Yeah,
you're a big Dan Pitcher guy, right, you are?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I feel I should be. I know where it's going.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah. The Bengals like Dan Pitcher. Yes, they value Dan Pitcher.
I think Dan Pitcher is key to their success. They
view him as an important part of the organization. So
why then would they let him leave for a lateral move?
Interviewing with the Buccaneers to be their offensive coordinator. He's
the offensive coordinat now I know the answer is, well,
(13:02):
he wants to call plays? Cool, why not just let
him call plays here? Then?
Speaker 3 (13:09):
So I don't think it's that simple. Oh, I don't
think it's as simple to say he wants to call plays, Okay,
I mean, we've seen plenty of coaches get hired that
didn't call plays. I think, and this is me. Dan
has never said this to me, but this is my
observation on the way things are going. I can only
(13:30):
imagine a frustration with the last two head coaching cycles
for him. I think there has always been a shroud
of discredit around coaches underneath Joe Burrow or are in
the orbit of Joe Burrow. Burrow's doing this right, coaches
don't get much credit. I haven't gotten much credit for
anything here, maybe rightfully, so I don't know. I'm not
(13:52):
really here to differentiate that perception is reality.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Does Brian Callahan's lack of success in Tennessee don't help?
It certainly doesn't help, but it doesn't run to the degree
that I fear it might.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Maybe some, But I think I think there is a
degree Dan wants to be a head coach, as anyone
in his position would sure, and I think there is
some degree of maybe getting out from the shadow of
Joe Burrow into a different offense, into a different atmosphere,
and showing off things there could be helpful to your career,
(14:27):
and Zach Taylor and this staff would say, we don't
want to stop you from seeing what your you know,
progress in your career can be look into it, right,
especially with the acknowledgment that if he did, they have
a easy one to one potentially available in Frank Callahan.
(14:50):
But that's my point is I don't think they want
to be restrictive of what Dan feels like is maybe
the best path for him to get to his career
goal of telling you, no, you're here now, you can't.
I don't want you going anywhere else. You're here, don't
try to find what you might think is best for you.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And by the way, there's I'm sure a lot of
organizations that would operate that way, perhaps this one in the.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Past, one has in the past.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
I think in certain situations, in certain times, if you
feel like any one of these things are true, you
can't advance when you're in Cincinnati because of everything. You
can't advance because you don't call plays. You can't advance
because of the shadow of Joe Burrow. You can't advance
because you just can't stay in that position for too
many years, Like the League turns over for a reason,
(15:40):
you either get promoter or fired.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
If you're in there too long, it becomes why are
you in there that long?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Okay, So I think there is a not wanting to
let him feel like he doesn't have a chance to advance.
Go see what you can do, make see if that
is a better job for you, right, and then come
back and let's see what what you think is the
final decision for you.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
I don't think they want to feel like he should
feel restricted being in this position. I think that's part
of it. So it's more than just I want to
call plays. Obviously that's gonna be a portion of this
because he doesn't, and that's you know, if we're gonna
call him the non play calling, oh see whatever. But
I think it's about career growth and the path to
(16:25):
what he wants most and not wanting to restrict that
in somebody that works for you is a big part
of this.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
So Dan Pictuer, if he leaves, obviously they could just
bring back Brian Callahan, which sounds great, But what if
Brian Callahan gets a job somewhere else and Dan Pittrick
gets a job somewhere else. Yeah, Well, that's then what's playing.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah, it's a terrible scenario. They would figure that out.
There's a list, I mean, there's always you always have
a list that you compile in every off season and
some downtime pete network of people that you know they're
not I mean, yeah, the timing.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Is tricky here.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yeah, in terms of what there's but the timing is
tri tricky for everybody in the entire league right now
with this many jobs and this many staffs being put
together and disassembled and trying to get read like this
is something that we haven't seen in the league in
a little while where you're gonna have this much movement.
So yeah, everybody's sitting in here trying to watch the
(17:23):
timing of things. I think Brian Callahan would like to
come back here as a number one landing spot. I
think he's interested in a lot of different things, but
this one certainly makes the most sense for Zach Taylor.
It certainly makes the most sense in a world where
they are so they're just they're so pot committed to
(17:45):
continuity at this point, like to use poker terms like
this is it like they're in there's no getting out
of the continuity train.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Now, if that's what they're doing, that's their angle.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
So you're not gonna like go away from that in
the offensive coordinator position, assuming you can you can make
the timing work. That is, you know, the I guess
the tricky part of that. And if Brian gets a
better opportunity, which very well could happen, but you know,
they certainly hope that it doesn't. I think there's a
thought that this is the best opportunity for the Bengals
and for him if it came to that at all.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Sure, but is there any validity to the idea that, Okay,
if you want to escape Joe Burrow's very large shadow,
for lack of a better way of putting it, call
the plays next year, bring out something in this quarterback,
in this offense that maybe we haven't been able to
tap into nearly as much, and the credit will come.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
No, he did that?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yeah? What else?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
What happened in twenty twenty four? Dan Pitcher came in,
took over Jamar Chase won a triple crown. They were
doing things they hadn't done before. They evolved in a
nice way, right, And what did he get?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
No head coach interview?
Speaker 1 (18:55):
It wasn't calling place. People love to fixate on the
call and place thing.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I mean, that's fine, is it something?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
I don't think that's the only I think that's how
everybody gets hired.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I mean, there's not like.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
It's silly for us as fans to fixate on that.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I think.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
So when it comes to any coach, you know, because
you've heard it with Eric b Enemy for instance, right, well,
it doesn't call plays right, and so like the public
perception is.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
That works against I think it's a piece of the pie.
I do not think it's anywhere near the most important part.
I think being able to lead. I think understanding how
to connect with people. I think understanding how to properly
build a culture, what winning actually looks like, like all
of that stuff. You know, it's sort of like I mean,
to me, it's kind of like when you crush the
baseball manager for the decisions they make with their bullpen.
(19:43):
And I don't mean that as a joking way, but
I want to see you It's like, so much of
being a baseball manager is just managing the personalities through
one hundred and sixty two games and getting people liking
coming to work and all that stuff. Right, But what's
most seen by fans and complained about is that happens
in game decision making that blows up in their face.
(20:03):
Right now, that is a part of your job, but
it is not the biggest part of your job. And
I think in the way that they do it here,
I it's not like he has no say in the
calling of plays and the execution of all of that.
But yeah, again, that's part. But I understand that. Yeah,
you're would you love if that was Also, if you're
(20:25):
an owner and you're looking at your head coach candidates,
you'd love to have every single one of those thirty
boxes checked if one of them doesn't call plays. You know,
maybe the box is bigger for some than others, but
it's one of many boxes you would love. Everybody would
love their resume to have every box checked.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
They don't all.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Okay, maybe that's one that he feels like he needs.
Maybe the shadow of Joe Burrow is what he feels
like he needs. Maybe he just wants to know what's
out there right.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Maybe he just won't to see if he can make
a little more money. Maybe he likes the sun. Okay,
Like I don't know, there's lots of reasons. Maybe he
too is sick of losing. Maybe there's lots of reasons
why you would consider looking into your other options elsewhere.
And I think it's fine that they would sit there
(21:12):
and say, go look into what you can get and I.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeahs on a human level, I I greatly appreciate that,
especially in a year where there's a lot of a
lot of pressure on this staff to win. I can
appreciate them saying, look, if what's best for you is
taking a lateral move, so to speak, because you think
that's best for you, We're not going to get in
your way. Like, I think that's cool as hell.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I mean, Dave Canalis Liam Couhn to the last two
successful coordinators in Tampa became head coaches after one year.
Dan might have been able to get that job before
and instead right, and so maybe there's a regret in
there with Tampa or other places. Let's see, I mean,
(21:55):
let's see how that all plays out. I'm just saying,
like I understand and looking at that gig. Yeah, if
you want to be a head coach and saying that
could be a nice step there for me, that's not lateral.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
So what you do is you let him go coach
the Bucks and then when the Bengals go eight to
nine next year, Dan Pitcher come back. I mean you're
do you not think that ultimate continuity moved? I mean
that would certainly.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Be on the table.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
I mean, who knows, right, I just I don't necessarily
believe the Bengals are going eight to nine next year.
Before anybody gets mad at me, well but I mean
it's on the table.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Sure is there a number that's not?
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, they're not.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
It's like this year like a high number. Maybe.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
So they went six and eleven. That's as bad as
it's ever gonna get. They're never gonna lose clip that
tarian clip it. They will never do. This year was awful.
This is as crappy, as miserable, as unfunny Bengals season
as has happened in my life. They still stumble their
way to six wins. They will never with Joe in
(23:03):
the Joe Burrow era. This is my bold hot take.
If you want to go, they'll never win fewer than six.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
As long as he's healthy all year.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
You're accounting for Joe Burrow not missing more than a month.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Okay, if he doesn't play a game, you know it's
preseason injury, and if Joe Burrow plays half the games,
they will still win five. I'm sorry, they will win
more than five. Yeah, it's not a very high bar
to clear.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
No, I don't see many worlds where if Joe Burrow
plays during a season that they go under five hundred
or less in games where he's the starter and finishes like.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I'm with you on that. I just you know, I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
So there are numbers, in my opinion, that are off
the table, the ones below six.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah, I don't take those off. No, I mean because
I we don't know that Joe will be healthy three
of us six years he has any inability to handle
his injury. I get injuries when they have happened. It
is twenty six away from four o'clock. So you have
your list of guys the Bengals could move on from,
(24:14):
and I'm okay if they don't move.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
On from any of them. But there's one that I
wish they were in a position to. We'll talk about
him when we come back. Sports headlines as well. Paul
Danner Junior is with us till four o'clock. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station Sports headlines are a
service of Kelsey Chevrolet Home of Lifetime powertrain protection and
guarantee credit approval from their family to yours for life
(24:38):
kelseyshev dot Com. Tonight, the nationally ranked and undefeated Miami
RedHawks hit the road to battle Kent State. The Golden
Flashes have one loss in MAC play this year. They
lost by two to Central Michigan. Travis Steel's team looking
for a season opening twentieth consecutive victory. Tip Off is
at seven o'clock tonight. What else do we have? We
(25:00):
have a college basketball in the area. The Indiana Hoosiers
visit third rated Michigan, and Ohio State will host Minnesota
Hockey this evening. The Columbus Blue Jackets, who have won
four consecutive games, skate against the Ottawa Senators. If the
Jackets lose, the rules say they have to fire the
head coach because they fire head coaches like every other week.
(25:20):
Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and the Growler podcast
is here. I wish we could have podcast the last
conversation we were having off air.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
No, that's okay, we probably don't need to do that.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
By the way, I can tell you how long. Miami's
unbeaten streak is gonna last. Okay, they're gonna have their
heartbroken on Valentine's game. They have their heartbroken on Valentine's Day.
Wow goes into Oxford.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Probably not. They're actually not.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Very good this year. No, we've got more point shaving.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
It's possible they might need to bring back the leading
scorer from two thousand and one through three.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
You you did the list of possible cap casualties, possible
cat cuts, and on those list of players, there was
no one that I was like dying to move on from.
There were players that if they moved on from, I
would find replaceable. TJ. Slayton's one of them, right. I
view him if he's on the team next year, okay.
And if they said we're done, okay, Oron Burks, if
(26:18):
the Bengals said we can find somebody better than Oron Burks,
I'd go cool. And if he was on the team
next season, that's fine too. The one that's interesting to
me is Orlando Brown. And this is why I wish
the Bengals had a better defense, because I would love
to look at him and go, you know what, we're
going to get out in front of a drop off
(26:40):
and because he wasn't awesome this past year. But at
the end of the season, he said, Okay, given all
the other stuff they have to fix, let's just leave
well Enough alone at left tackle and hopefully we get
through the season with the same offensive line, bring back
Dalton Reisner, hopefully Orlando Brown plays at the same level
he did in twenty five twenty six, and you live
(27:01):
with it and then you move on. I wish they
could get out in front of that, but they they're
not equipped to because of all the other issues they
have to fix. That to me is one of the part.
What's one of the dominoes when you have a defense
that's that bad that you can't look at Orlando Brown
and say, you know what, we're gonna prioritize left tackle.
Maybe do it a year early, move on from them,
(27:22):
sign up a suitable replacement, and use your first round
draft choice on that position. You can't do that because
of how bad they are on defense. Yeah, that's the challenge.
And I've been you know, going through a very very close.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
To the mock off season sheet Well it's coming.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Oh, it's very close.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
But that's as I've gone through it and been like
doing my versions of it. That's the one I come
back to a lot of like, you just can't add on.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
You can't.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
You gotta know that you would be able to get better,
and then you also could be taking the chance of
playing a draft pick over there. There's just a lot
of variables. Whereas it's it's team. Million dollars against cap
is a big number. But he's also you know, when
you talk about tackle money, it's not that pick. No,
(28:08):
I mean he's he's he's not paid average annual value
in the top twenty.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Theymore. I mean it's and.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
That's probably a fine level that he plays at. Like
I think, I think it's fine. They do need to
be getting out in front of it in thinking about
the future, and my take on this has been offensive
tackle should be on the table in round one. I'm
not saying you would do it, but it certainly should
be on the table. There's very few that should be
off the table at that point. But somewhere in your
(28:36):
first three picks, you need to come away with a
tackle that could potentially be your tackle of the future.
I know that's scary because the ghost of Cedric awayHe
and Jake Fisher but like, but you have to do that, Like,
you just have to do that. But he's got to
be able to play if needed this year. Yeah, well
that's the point. It's your Look, anybody you pick in
the first three rounds should be able to be a
backup and be able to play if called upon. That's
(28:58):
what a first, second, or third round pick needs to be.
Now you're gonna be with tackle, Sure, there's chances that
you take in that, but I mean, if they're worth
that pick, they should be able to take on that
responsibility of being OT three okay and so, and potentially
be more than that going forward. There's I mean, there's
plenty of tackles that that play and have played on
(29:18):
good teams and had success. So that to me is
what the approach has to be. And that's not even
speaking about Orlando's level of play at all. If you
have any tackle entering the last year of his contract,
you better know what's going on next year. That position
is too hard to flip on the fly to all
(29:39):
of a sudden be able to just be like next year, say,
oh what are we going to do here? No, they
have to be preemptive about that regardless. So to me,
that's on the table. Yes, I agree. You would love
to be in a position where if that was your
only issue and you had extra money, you could go
get a different guy or get younger, or there's not
a ton out there.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
But like because it's.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
There's not a lot of offensive man, right that teams
are that are really good. The team's just letting me
out there on the open market. So it's scarce anyway,
But there are names that you could find an answer there.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I just feel like with him, and I hope this
isn't the case. And by the way, he's not even
thirty yet, he gets talked about like he's, you know,
thirty four years old. I think he turns thirty during
camp next year, so.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
And keeping him around could be an option. But I
think you'd want to see him play better this year
than he did last year. And and so my fear is.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
I could see a scenario where next season Orlando Brown
plays poorly, just sure the way it's trending. Sure, and
when he does, you go, man. I wish they could
have avoided this, but they can't. Like they can't. I
don't want whatever's behind Doort number two at left tackle,
but I wish the team was good enough to go,
you know what, everything else is pretty set. Let's let's
(30:57):
definitively use the tenth overall pick on a left tackle,
or let's find a suitable replacement and free agency to
pair with the tenth overall pick. And they just, to me,
can't do that because of all the other stuff they've
got to fix. And so what you're hoping for is
that Orlando Brunt plays at the level that he did
this year, and hopefully that happens, and if so, I
(31:18):
think we'll be okay with it. But I could see
a world where he doesn't, and you go, man, now
it's a liability. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Well, And I think one of the more interesting free
agency things to look at is what is their aggression
level at their third tackle position, Like, what is it
a replacement because they need a swing tackle, so it's
some you know, bargain two three million dollar guy whatever, journeyman,
or is it a little bit more of an aggressive
(31:45):
push into a higher salary range for somebody who could
be there in case things don't go well with with
Orlando Brown and try to take than feeling pigeonholed to
get an offensive tackle in the first three round or
first or second round or whatever, and play curious to
see how that plays out if they view that as
(32:05):
something that they should prioritize. My gut says that they won't,
but it's certainly possible.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah. I just as I was going down the list,
I was wrestling with do I really want Orlando Brown
on the team next year? And I've arrived at the
do I do that? I do do again? I just
wish the team was better that I can kind of
afford to go. You know what, Let's let's get out
in front of this now, because I think ideally, if
(32:34):
your organization is humming on all cylinders, that's what you do.
You move on from players before they have that sudden
drop off. And I fear by mid November, we're gonna go,
Holy hell, this is what the sudden drop off looks like.
Maybe that doesn't happen. Maybe he has a great year
in him, and that would be unsurprising as well. But
when you look at the offense, it's Riisner, it's maybe
(32:55):
a third wide receiver, and it's something at left tackle.
I wish you could make that a bigger priory, but
you can't, cause the defense. You may have heard not
very good.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Yeah, I's there's no doubt. But I mean, if you're
talking about using pick ten or forty one on a
tackle and you get to November and it's not very good,
that's the point where you make a change there anyway,
with a with a top pick.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
When you see a tweet from Joe Burrow, do you
assume he's been hacked?
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
First thought you assume you try to figure out if
it's really him. Uh, well, where does your mind go
when you see that Joe Burrow has decided to jump in? Like?
I enjoy Twitter, I really do. I use it to
amuse myself and to promote myself. I enjoy Twitter. I
don't necessarily know that. I understand after that app has
(33:44):
been around for seventeen years, why somebody would suddenly decide,
you know what I'm gonna do. Today's the day, Today's
the day I'm gonna jump in. And so I am.
I am fascinated by the mindset here is this. You know,
Joe Burrow only has something to lose on Twitter. There's
no thing for him to gain. It's Joe Burrow, right,
trying to gain the favor of the officials that I guess,
(34:05):
so so when I'm looking at the timeline and I
see a tweet from Joe Burrow. There are very few
times there's an audible reaction for me based on a
tweet that and it wasn't what he tweeted about. It
was like only hell, he remembered his password.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yes, which is maybe the most impressive part. And that
photographics true, Yes, remember all that stuff. No, do you
think he's a two.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Way authentication guy?
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:29):
I think he okay, cares about security. Okay, if I
was Joe Burrow, I wouldn't have.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Twit three four way authentication. There should be I think
probably more. Yeah, No, I think so. I think here's
the thing. I mean, I looked down and I did
the first hacked. Sure, right, gotta be And then it's like, okay,
maybe not what's going on?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Then I was just staring. I was kind of squinting.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
I have a we have a rule, like, let's let's
try not to have the phones out at the dinner table,
and normally I don't, but like, if I get a
bunch of buzz, I'm like, I'm just a quick peek.
And then I did the I was literally just leaning down,
staring to the point of my wife being like, what's wrong?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
What are you staring at?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I was?
Speaker 2 (35:08):
I think Joe Burrow tweeted. I'm not totally sure why
or how, but yes, uh that was.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
That was fairly stunning. I mean, I'm gonna go. I'm
gonna go with trying to get on the officials nice side.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
What do you believe is more newsworthy a Joe Burrow
tweet or a Nick Lache tweet.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Don't do this?
Speaker 1 (35:30):
This has been your thing. Don't do this has been
your thing.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Do you think a Joe Burrow tweet? Yes? I mean,
come on, are you I know what you're trying to
do here?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Do you disagree?
Speaker 3 (35:43):
You're trying to elicit reaction and you're gonna clip me
on this camera right here, and it's gonna.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Get You've already done that for your own podcast.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Yes, I don't want to do it anymore. I just
don't want to do it anymore.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Would you get in trouble?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
No? No, no, I didn't get in trouble. I just don't.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
I don't want to. I don't want leche Hive after me.
Apparent in twenty twenty six, clear this was not about Nick.
You shoudn't make it abundantly clear about people making Nick
tweets news. Yes, it's not news. How Joe Burrow anything
he does or says his news fair. There is a
lache hive like there's only rat like, I get it.
(36:20):
If you tweeted blind people, Okay, I don't even know.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
What that is?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
There are I don't is that? Is that a show
that he's on. Yeah, that's the show that he's on. Yes,
So you you went viral for and what you're viral Okay,
what your take was basically is just because nickolasche tweets
about the Bengals doesn't mean it's news. And there are
outlets who treated that like news. Yes, and your commentary
(36:46):
was about those outlets. Yeah right, yeah, let's be better.
Let's be better as a news outlet.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
It's clooney or nobody.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Fine, So, but that was your point. What I what
I am skeptical of is the suggestion that there are
people so passionate about Nick Lachet. Nothing against Nick, who
is a very nice man. Uh has had a very
good career, good for him, lives a charm life, good
for him, But there are people so attached to him
(37:14):
that they came after you.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
I mean, as much as anybody comes after anybody on Twitter,
it's hard to tell. I was being come after a
lot at that point. Yeah, so it kind of blended
in I think in the woodwork. But yeah, no, yeah,
there was some of there's some of that. But I
mean it's okay, okay, it's okay, it's it's fine. Everybody
has their things and didn't maybe they didn't agree.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
With my thoughts.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Well, I'm sure there are folks, namely at the publications
you were referencing, that didn't agree with you to get
some pushback from them.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
No, a media, they can't feel media few, they can't feel.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Good about it. Oh, come on, I was hoping for
a media feud.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
I mean I don't. I don't want one.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
No I do, I mean I don't want to be
in it. But as again, as an observer of chaos
an absurdity, yes, a good media feud would be awesome.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Yeah, we always has something real to feud over.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
No, that's who wants to do that? All right? Well,
has the leche or what do they call themselves?
Speaker 2 (38:07):
I don't. I don't know that.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
There were just some people that were that that showed
up and just felt like I didn't need this right.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Now, That's all. Okay, I get I understand that.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
I don't know they had names.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
They were Willingship probably is. I just don't know, all right,
I said, I think there's something about this that you're
not telling me. I don't think there is Nick's brother
come after you. He's in town, isn't he.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
It's just when people show up and you're mentions and
be like, you know, at the defense of Nickoliche that's all.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
But did they understand you weren't coming after Nick Lache?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
People never There's been a lot of misunderstanding. I feel
like happening, That's all, And I can't. I can't do
anything about that. Okay, what other people have misunderstood things
that have been said?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I can't. I'm just letting you know what happened. You asked.
I brought this up. I knew this is gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I'm enjoying you see them uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
I am uncomfortable. It makes me. You can go to
one of your breaks.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Paul Dan Junior, you could read his work at the
Athletic dot com. When does the mock the mock Off
seasons out of us Thursday soon?
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Yeah, hopefully hopefully spreadsheet. It's currently just going through the
last edits in the different levels of I've done the spreadsheet.
I don't know that you're gonna love it this year. Really,
some years you feel tortured, very yes, and I think
it might be closer to that this year than really. Yeah,
I was surprised because you want to do like I want.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
I wanted to do more.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
So my overhaul is not as possible as I.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Don't know, maybe it is. Maybe maybe you will come
away feeling differently. I my prediction, if I'm handicapping this
is that you'll come away and say that was frustrating. Okay,
that's my prediction. We're going to talk about a couple
of times. Here's my request. I don't know how this
works on the internet, but what for those who don't
know the mock off seasons a spreadsheet where you basically
(39:55):
build the roster, cut players, add free agents, draft, you know,
you the roster when the geno stone drop down when
I click on it and I click cut could could that?
Could a sound be incorporated? Could it be like when
you send a congratulations text in like balloons and.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Fireworks go off? Yeah? You know that's not a cut.
That sound that you get when you send, well, it's
not a cut. I guess not sign it would be
not bringing them back.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
I might have to create a whole separate dropdown. That's
just you have decided not to re sign Genostone.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
When you send an email. At least for me, if
I send an email on my phone use an outlook,
it sends a sound effect. Yeah, sometimes I will have
to send an email that I get a great amount
of pleasure out of sending. I love that sound. Yes,
I want I love that sound, and I want that
to be on the spreadsheet when I decide to not
(40:49):
bring back Genostone.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Maybe I can call it. Maybe I can give it
like a name like the mow Egger non re signing,
like you sponsored not re signing. Yes, you know Stone, sure, Moeger.
Decision to not re sign Genostone is what I'll put
it there in the drop down.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Ass So that's okay with that. Absolutely, that's later this week,
all right. Paul Danner Jinorita's worked the Athletic dot Com.
It was I thought it was outstanding.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
We got a lot of good stuff. Dan Pitcher play
calling Orlando Brown and Nicholas Chay. We can't beat it perfect,
just the way I drew it up.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Hopefully this is the last run for the nickolasche com It.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Will be, I promise. The Growler podcast available where you
get your podcasts, including YouTube and follow Paul Paul. It
is four minutes away from four o'clock. This is esp
at fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports station
Right now at Mulllegger on Twitter thanks to share Facts
Credit Union. I am thrilled that you are here, thanks
to Chad Rendell for pinchitting yesterday. If you had a
free day weekend, hopefully you enjoyed it. Weeks off to
a good start. Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic is here.
Later on, we'll get to Elie Dela Cruz and Tito
Francona and the Reds offense, and we'll talk to Miami
(00:22):
and Kent State point shaving with our guys Stuart W.
Penrose from Manila Law Group, and of course thoughts on
the college football Playoff national championship tilt last night won
by the Indiana Hoosiers. If you're an IU fan and
IU grad, congratulations, it's the coolest story in sports history.
We'll get to all of that a little bit later on,
but Paul's here from the Athletic and the Growler podcast.
(00:46):
How is it going?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It's going great.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Do you know when I was in college I did
a thesis on point shaving in college basketball?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Really yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
It was sparked because I thought that the leading scorer
for OU's basketball team was shaving points and I wanted
to try I expose it. Yeah, that was not the
case as far as I could tell, although I have
my theories. But I did learn a lot about the
history of point shaving and Headache Smith and Kentucky from
back in the fifties. Of course, now you can fill
ten times as many books just in the last couple
(01:16):
of years compared to what there was then. But if
you want to know any more, I've got I've got
lots of background.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Here is the thesis available? Is it published? Is it
something I can access? I mean, I hope did you
mention your Did you mention the OU player by name?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I would like not to say his name, but if
you look up the leading scores from two thousand and
one to two thousand and three at Ohi University, you
could probably figure out.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Wow, so you could be my point shaving guy. I mean,
is that the beat you want?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
At this point? I might take it understood, But yeah, no,
I'm here for whatever you need a.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Little bit later on, I'm gonna I'm going to tell
you the move. I wish the Bengals weren't a position
to make little tease that is set. No not, But
in that instance, maybe I peaked your interest.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yes, I am interested in that.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Perhaps the audiences as well. There's a lot of stuff.
We got a lot to get to. Yah, let's start
with the striking contrast, which is something we talked about
a little bit on your podcast this morning. So the
Buffalo Bills they got Josh Allen. Josh Allen's an MVP quarterback.
Josh Allen's an A lister, Josh Allen's a star. He
is one of the faces of the league. The Buffalo
(02:28):
Bills haven't won a Super Bowl with him, so they
said to the coach, thanks for everything, deuces seeya. The
Baltimore Ravens have a two time MVP quarterback, Lamar Jackson
bona fide star right this year. Maybe not himself, perhaps
more physically compromised than he was letting on. He did
miss games, but Lamar Jackson is a star. He was
paired with a coach who was quickly hired by the
(02:51):
New York Giants, a guy who might be in the
Hall of Fame one day. But the Baltimore Ravens said,
we can't wait anymore. See you, John Harball. Thanks enjoy
New Jersey. The Cincinnati Bengals have a quarterback like that.
Granted not been an MVP, but he has played in
a Super Bowl. But he's been an MVP finalist twice,
two time comeback Player of the Year, bona fide star
has a claim to the title of best quarterback in
(03:13):
the sport. And the Cincinnati Bengals said, we're cool, Zach,
You're good. You two are together. That contrast to me
is striking absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I mean, it's been interesting.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
You have the AFC had this this thing going with
Mahomes and Reed and Zach, Taylor and Burrow and Harbaugh
and Jackson and of course Allan and McDermott. I mean,
for the longest time these were that wasn't changing. And
I even right before at the end of this season,
we were talking about how interesting is when you look
at the coaches about how these quarterbacks have kept their
(03:45):
coaches connections going. Really, whatever's been going on there, there's
no doubt about it. What is happening now in the
upheaval in the league and the ten open jobs and
the high profile coaches that have left now with franchise quarterbacks,
it only does what everything seems to be doing. The
(04:06):
theme right now is okay, you want to be your
team continuity.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
That's the thing. This is it.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
That pressure could not be more on everything to happen
this year because you're just not going to get now.
Who knows, it's the Bengals, so whatever, it could go
on forever, but like it does, it does really feel
like this time like this is it. I mean, this
is your It's either you can do it or you're
going to be like the rest of these And the difference,
(04:34):
I will say when you analyze what's happening here one
coming off a year where you didn't have Burrow for
the whole time, so who knows what it looks like.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
But that said, I.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Think your job ends up being so much about managing
your quarterback relationship and managing up This job has since
Marvin Lewis showed up day one been about managing and
helping everything get as much done as you can and
deal with all of that. I think Zach Taylor has
a good relationship obviously with ownership to still be here
(05:10):
at this point. Yeah, and obviously with Joe Burrow to
still be here at this point. I think those are
the two things that John Harbaugh and Sean McDermott did
not have and it cost them now for whatever reason.
How much should that matter. We can all debate that,
but if you're asking me the difference in this particular moment,
I think that got those guys and at some point, yes,
(05:33):
you have to win. They were there, you know, longer
than Zach's been here. But it's understood at this point.
I mean, you only get so many shots when you
have the franchise quarterback, when you have him in full
But yeah, that man, the pile. It just keeps keeping
everything that's happening, everything that has happened in recent years,
the conjecture from Joe, the movement in the league, a
(05:57):
division that now will have all new head coaches around
the AFC and upheaval. It's just Zach Taylor and Andy
Reid are the only guys that have really been around here.
All of the continuity that they're selling and bringing back,
and the support statement. Everything that has happened since the
season has ended has pointed.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
To extreme pressure cooker.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Of twenty twenty six season.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
And this is it, man, because otherwise you're going to
go the same way that the rest of the league
is going.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
We will see ultimately what the result of the coaching
searches in the three AFC North Cities are. But is
there a world because I think there is where the
Bengals are considered AFC North favorites before the season.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah, well because who I mean, Pittsburgh is not a
good job. No, Pittsburgh is a great job theoretically in
a you can keep this job for a long time.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
But all of those coaches had almost immediate success. So
when I say, all, let's talk about Kawer and Tomlin,
they lived off the instant success they had.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yes, that's part of it. And also when you take
that job, I think you're the reason that it was time.
There is it's hard reset time in Pittsburgh. They got
to figure out a way to say the rosters old,
the quarterback situation needs to get a long term solution.
If you're if you're cutting ties, if the Tomlin move
happens now, that is you know, let's reset the game. Okay,
(07:21):
And so that's not a great job. How is a
new per new coach gonna mesh with Lamar Jackson and
both like, I don't know, it's obviously not going to
be Cleveland that you're gonna be so so yeah, I
mean I don't to this in this moment. They should
be yes, this should be. It is setting up for
them to make their run. I mean, it's this is
(07:44):
this is what you ask for, and so yeah, can
you should they? Yes, they should be favorites to win
the AFC North from the get go, which does what
only adds more pressure. Again, like all of this, all
of this is that it's all this one pie. This
is what it all is. It's like, okay, twenty twenty
six or all bets are off with absolutely everything happening internally.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I was watching people fight on the internet, and I'm
as I've gotten older, I'm more of a watch people
fight than I am jump into the fray I enjoy sometimes,
not that often, but I was watching people fight about
Mike Tomlin, fighting over whether or not he would would
take the Bengals job if it comes open next year.
And the one person was making the argument that there's
(08:30):
no way that Mike Tomlin would want to work for
the Brown family. And I thought about that, and I said,
you know, these are two family run franchises. And when
I read stuff out of Pittsburgh, or when I listen
to shows like this out of Pittsburgh, it sounds like
the Bengals are being talked about or I read some
of the same things I read about the Bengals that
outdated facilities and mom and pop franchise and stubborn and
(08:54):
obstinate and set in their ways and frugal to a fault.
This is not a conversation about Mike tomlell. But you
talked about the Steelers job. I believe this. Say what
you want about the prestige of that franchise and what
the Steelers historically have accomplished. Those two franchises have more
in common at the ownership level than I think people realize.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
The biggest thing that differentiates the two of them is
the history.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, I mean, at this point, if you want to
look back in the last fifteen years, the last ten years,
in the recent history, the franchises have operated similarly. They've
had similar problems. Mike Tomlin is going through the same
thing now that Marvin Lewis went through. I mean, it's
very very similar paths. They have a similar ownership group
that is adjusting and trying to figure out how to
(09:45):
act and survive and sustain in an NFL world that
is changing what ownership looks like around them. For better
or for worse right, and I just I think there's
adjustments in that. I think there is a lot more similarities.
I think you're exactly right, but the history and the
respect that comes with what they have been and and
(10:05):
I think a way that they go about certain things,
but they do things that they this is the Steeler
way that I unequivocally do not agree with in terms
of the money they spend to older players, right, the
heavy lean into like just defense all the time and
not realizing it's an offensive league, and in the churning
of the quarterback situation. Like, there's a lot of stuff
(10:26):
that they do that they have always done that I
don't necessarily agree with the same way. They would be
things that you would look at the way the Bengals
do it that that the normal NFL franchise is not
going to agree with. In that respect, I think you're right,
Like they operate in distinct kind of unique ways, their
own unique ways, but unique ways to the bigger NFL landscape.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Watching people fight on the internet, if you do it
in small doses, can bring an amount of joy to
you that I think is rare when you when you
when you go online.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, yeah, I think I like it most when you
do jump in that is kind of yes, no, because
you it's clearly reluctantly, but it's clear also that you
have a joke so good you just have to get
it off. Yeah, you know, you're like, I just I
you know, it's not in your best interest. Like every
(11:19):
time I see you do it, I'm like, he knows
he shouldn't do this right now. Yes, but you're like,
but the joke's too good. Yeah, get passed on the joke.
And that's what I respect about you. When you got
the good joke, you're willing to get it off no
matter what the fallout could be.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
We have finally found something you respect about me. So,
Dan Pitcher is a valued member of the Cincinnati Bengals,
yet they may let him leave for the same job.
This doesn't make any sense. We'll talk about it when
we come back. Paul Danner Junior's here from The Athletic
and the Growler Podcast. Follow him at Paul Danner Junior.
The latest edition of The Growler Podcast released just a
(11:54):
short while ago. Seventeen minutes after three Paul's here till four,
We are here toll six on SPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station twenty two minutes after three o'clock. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty on Moeger. Thanks for listening. Paul Dayner
Junior is here from The Athletic and the Growler podcast.
He has written about the list of possible cat casualties,
(12:19):
and we're going to get to that here in a bit.
Go read it at the Athletic dot com. Let's spend
some time on Dan Pitcher. Okay, you're big on Dan Pitcher, man.
You think Dan Pitcher should be interviewed by all these
teams who need a head coach was interviewed by one. Yeah,
you're a big Dan Pitcher guy, right, you are?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I feel I should be. I know where it's going.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah. The Bengals like Dan Pitcher. Yes, they value Dan Pitcher.
I think Dan Pitcher is key to their success. They
view him as an important part of the organization. So
why then would they let him leave for a lateral move?
Interviewing with the Buccaneers to be their offensive coordinator. He's
the offensive coordinat now I know the answer is, well,
(13:02):
he wants to call plays? Cool, why not just let
him call plays here? Then?
Speaker 3 (13:09):
So I don't think it's that simple. Oh, I don't
think it's as simple to say he wants to call plays, Okay,
I mean, we've seen plenty of coaches get hired that
didn't call plays. I think, and this is me. Dan
has never said this to me, but this is my
observation on the way things are going. I can only
(13:30):
imagine a frustration with the last two head coaching cycles
for him. I think there has always been a shroud
of discredit around coaches underneath Joe Burrow or are in
the orbit of Joe Burrow. Burrow's doing this right, coaches
don't get much credit. I haven't gotten much credit for
anything here, maybe rightfully, so I don't know. I'm not
(13:52):
really here to differentiate that perception is reality.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Does Brian Callahan's lack of success in Tennessee don't help?
It certainly doesn't help, but it doesn't run to the degree
that I fear it might.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Maybe some, But I think I think there is a
degree Dan wants to be a head coach, as anyone
in his position would sure, and I think there is
some degree of maybe getting out from the shadow of
Joe Burrow into a different offense, into a different atmosphere,
and showing off things there could be helpful to your career,
(14:27):
and Zach Taylor and this staff would say, we don't
want to stop you from seeing what your you know,
progress in your career can be look into it, right,
especially with the acknowledgment that if he did, they have
a easy one to one potentially available in Frank Callahan.
(14:50):
But that's my point is I don't think they want
to be restrictive of what Dan feels like is maybe
the best path for him to get to his career
goal of telling you, no, you're here now, you can't.
I don't want you going anywhere else. You're here, don't
try to find what you might think is best for you.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And by the way, there's I'm sure a lot of
organizations that would operate that way, perhaps this one in the.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Past, one has in the past.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
I think in certain situations, in certain times, if you
feel like any one of these things are true, you
can't advance when you're in Cincinnati because of everything. You
can't advance because you don't call plays. You can't advance
because of the shadow of Joe Burrow. You can't advance
because you just can't stay in that position for too
many years, Like the League turns over for a reason,
(15:40):
you either get promoter or fired.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
If you're in there too long, it becomes why are
you in there that long?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Okay, So I think there is a not wanting to
let him feel like he doesn't have a chance to advance.
Go see what you can do, make see if that
is a better job for you, right, and then come
back and let's see what what you think is the
final decision for you.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
I don't think they want to feel like he should
feel restricted being in this position. I think that's part
of it. So it's more than just I want to
call plays. Obviously that's gonna be a portion of this
because he doesn't, and that's you know, if we're gonna
call him the non play calling, oh see whatever. But
I think it's about career growth and the path to
(16:25):
what he wants most and not wanting to restrict that
in somebody that works for you is a big part
of this.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
So Dan Pictuer, if he leaves, obviously they could just
bring back Brian Callahan, which sounds great, But what if
Brian Callahan gets a job somewhere else and Dan Pittrick
gets a job somewhere else. Yeah, Well, that's then what's playing.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah, it's a terrible scenario. They would figure that out.
There's a list, I mean, there's always you always have
a list that you compile in every off season and
some downtime pete network of people that you know they're
not I mean, yeah, the timing.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Is tricky here.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yeah, in terms of what there's but the timing is
tri tricky for everybody in the entire league right now
with this many jobs and this many staffs being put
together and disassembled and trying to get read like this
is something that we haven't seen in the league in
a little while where you're gonna have this much movement.
So yeah, everybody's sitting in here trying to watch the
(17:23):
timing of things. I think Brian Callahan would like to
come back here as a number one landing spot. I
think he's interested in a lot of different things, but
this one certainly makes the most sense for Zach Taylor.
It certainly makes the most sense in a world where
they are so they're just they're so pot committed to
(17:45):
continuity at this point, like to use poker terms like
this is it like they're in there's no getting out
of the continuity train.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Now, if that's what they're doing, that's their angle.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
So you're not gonna like go away from that in
the offensive coordinator position, assuming you can you can make
the timing work. That is, you know, the I guess
the tricky part of that. And if Brian gets a
better opportunity, which very well could happen, but you know,
they certainly hope that it doesn't. I think there's a
thought that this is the best opportunity for the Bengals
and for him if it came to that at all.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Sure, but is there any validity to the idea that, Okay,
if you want to escape Joe Burrow's very large shadow,
for lack of a better way of putting it, call
the plays next year, bring out something in this quarterback,
in this offense that maybe we haven't been able to
tap into nearly as much, and the credit will come.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
No, he did that?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yeah? What else?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
What happened in twenty twenty four? Dan Pitcher came in,
took over Jamar Chase won a triple crown. They were
doing things they hadn't done before. They evolved in a
nice way, right, And what did he get?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
No head coach interview?
Speaker 1 (18:55):
It wasn't calling place. People love to fixate on the
call and place thing.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I mean, that's fine, is it something?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
I don't think that's the only I think that's how
everybody gets hired.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I mean, there's not like.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
It's silly for us as fans to fixate on that.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I think.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
So when it comes to any coach, you know, because
you've heard it with Eric b Enemy for instance, right, well,
it doesn't call plays right, and so like the public
perception is.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
That works against I think it's a piece of the pie.
I do not think it's anywhere near the most important part.
I think being able to lead. I think understanding how
to connect with people. I think understanding how to properly
build a culture, what winning actually looks like, like all
of that stuff. You know, it's sort of like I mean,
to me, it's kind of like when you crush the
baseball manager for the decisions they make with their bullpen.
(19:43):
And I don't mean that as a joking way, but
I want to see you It's like, so much of
being a baseball manager is just managing the personalities through
one hundred and sixty two games and getting people liking
coming to work and all that stuff. Right, But what's
most seen by fans and complained about is that happens
in game decision making that blows up in their face.
(20:03):
Right now, that is a part of your job, but
it is not the biggest part of your job. And
I think in the way that they do it here,
I it's not like he has no say in the
calling of plays and the execution of all of that.
But yeah, again, that's part. But I understand that. Yeah,
you're would you love if that was Also, if you're
(20:25):
an owner and you're looking at your head coach candidates,
you'd love to have every single one of those thirty
boxes checked if one of them doesn't call plays. You know,
maybe the box is bigger for some than others, but
it's one of many boxes you would love. Everybody would
love their resume to have every box checked.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
They don't all.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Okay, maybe that's one that he feels like he needs.
Maybe the shadow of Joe Burrow is what he feels
like he needs. Maybe he just wants to know what's
out there right.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Maybe he just won't to see if he can make
a little more money. Maybe he likes the sun. Okay,
Like I don't know, there's lots of reasons. Maybe he
too is sick of losing. Maybe there's lots of reasons
why you would consider looking into your other options elsewhere.
And I think it's fine that they would sit there
(21:12):
and say, go look into what you can get and I.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeahs on a human level, I I greatly appreciate that,
especially in a year where there's a lot of a
lot of pressure on this staff to win. I can
appreciate them saying, look, if what's best for you is
taking a lateral move, so to speak, because you think
that's best for you, We're not going to get in
your way. Like, I think that's cool as hell.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I mean, Dave Canalis Liam Couhn to the last two
successful coordinators in Tampa became head coaches after one year.
Dan might have been able to get that job before
and instead right, and so maybe there's a regret in
there with Tampa or other places. Let's see, I mean,
(21:55):
let's see how that all plays out. I'm just saying,
like I understand and looking at that gig. Yeah, if
you want to be a head coach and saying that
could be a nice step there for me, that's not lateral.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
So what you do is you let him go coach
the Bucks and then when the Bengals go eight to
nine next year, Dan Pitcher come back. I mean you're
do you not think that ultimate continuity moved? I mean
that would certainly.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Be on the table.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
I mean, who knows, right, I just I don't necessarily
believe the Bengals are going eight to nine next year.
Before anybody gets mad at me, well but I mean
it's on the table.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Sure is there a number that's not?
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, they're not.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
It's like this year like a high number. Maybe.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
So they went six and eleven. That's as bad as
it's ever gonna get. They're never gonna lose clip that
tarian clip it. They will never do. This year was awful.
This is as crappy, as miserable, as unfunny Bengals season
as has happened in my life. They still stumble their
way to six wins. They will never with Joe in
(23:03):
the Joe Burrow era. This is my bold hot take.
If you want to go, they'll never win fewer than six.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
As long as he's healthy all year.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
You're accounting for Joe Burrow not missing more than a month.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Okay, if he doesn't play a game, you know it's
preseason injury, and if Joe Burrow plays half the games,
they will still win five. I'm sorry, they will win
more than five. Yeah, it's not a very high bar
to clear.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
No, I don't see many worlds where if Joe Burrow
plays during a season that they go under five hundred
or less in games where he's the starter and finishes like.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I'm with you on that. I just you know, I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
So there are numbers, in my opinion, that are off
the table, the ones below six.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah, I don't take those off. No, I mean because
I we don't know that Joe will be healthy three
of us six years he has any inability to handle
his injury. I get injuries when they have happened. It
is twenty six away from four o'clock. So you have
your list of guys the Bengals could move on from,
(24:14):
and I'm okay if they don't move.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
On from any of them. But there's one that I
wish they were in a position to. We'll talk about
him when we come back. Sports headlines as well. Paul
Danner Junior is with us till four o'clock. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station Sports headlines are a
service of Kelsey Chevrolet Home of Lifetime powertrain protection and
guarantee credit approval from their family to yours for life
(24:38):
kelseyshev dot Com. Tonight, the nationally ranked and undefeated Miami
RedHawks hit the road to battle Kent State. The Golden
Flashes have one loss in MAC play this year. They
lost by two to Central Michigan. Travis Steel's team looking
for a season opening twentieth consecutive victory. Tip Off is
at seven o'clock tonight. What else do we have? We
(25:00):
have a college basketball in the area. The Indiana Hoosiers
visit third rated Michigan, and Ohio State will host Minnesota
Hockey this evening. The Columbus Blue Jackets, who have won
four consecutive games, skate against the Ottawa Senators. If the
Jackets lose, the rules say they have to fire the
head coach because they fire head coaches like every other week.
(25:20):
Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and the Growler podcast
is here. I wish we could have podcast the last
conversation we were having off air.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
No, that's okay, we probably don't need to do that.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
By the way, I can tell you how long. Miami's
unbeaten streak is gonna last. Okay, they're gonna have their
heartbroken on Valentine's game. They have their heartbroken on Valentine's Day.
Wow goes into Oxford.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Probably not. They're actually not.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Very good this year. No, we've got more point shaving.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
It's possible they might need to bring back the leading
scorer from two thousand and one through three.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
You you did the list of possible cap casualties, possible
cat cuts, and on those list of players, there was
no one that I was like dying to move on from.
There were players that if they moved on from, I
would find replaceable. TJ. Slayton's one of them, right. I
view him if he's on the team next year, okay.
And if they said we're done, okay, Oron Burks, if
(26:18):
the Bengals said we can find somebody better than Oron Burks,
I'd go cool. And if he was on the team
next season, that's fine too. The one that's interesting to
me is Orlando Brown. And this is why I wish
the Bengals had a better defense, because I would love
to look at him and go, you know what, we're
going to get out in front of a drop off
(26:40):
and because he wasn't awesome this past year. But at
the end of the season, he said, Okay, given all
the other stuff they have to fix, let's just leave
well Enough alone at left tackle and hopefully we get
through the season with the same offensive line, bring back
Dalton Reisner, hopefully Orlando Brown plays at the same level
he did in twenty five twenty six, and you live
(27:01):
with it and then you move on. I wish they
could get out in front of that, but they they're
not equipped to because of all the other issues they
have to fix. That to me is one of the part.
What's one of the dominoes when you have a defense
that's that bad that you can't look at Orlando Brown
and say, you know what, we're gonna prioritize left tackle.
Maybe do it a year early, move on from them,
(27:22):
sign up a suitable replacement, and use your first round
draft choice on that position. You can't do that because
of how bad they are on defense. Yeah, that's the challenge.
And I've been you know, going through a very very close.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
To the mock off season sheet Well it's coming.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Oh, it's very close.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
But that's as I've gone through it and been like
doing my versions of it. That's the one I come
back to a lot of like, you just can't add on.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
You can't.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
You gotta know that you would be able to get better,
and then you also could be taking the chance of
playing a draft pick over there. There's just a lot
of variables. Whereas it's it's team. Million dollars against cap
is a big number. But he's also you know, when
you talk about tackle money, it's not that pick. No,
(28:08):
I mean he's he's he's not paid average annual value
in the top twenty.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Theymore. I mean it's and.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
That's probably a fine level that he plays at. Like
I think, I think it's fine. They do need to
be getting out in front of it in thinking about
the future, and my take on this has been offensive
tackle should be on the table in round one. I'm
not saying you would do it, but it certainly should
be on the table. There's very few that should be
off the table at that point. But somewhere in your
(28:36):
first three picks, you need to come away with a
tackle that could potentially be your tackle of the future.
I know that's scary because the ghost of Cedric awayHe
and Jake Fisher but like, but you have to do that, Like,
you just have to do that. But he's got to
be able to play if needed this year. Yeah, well
that's the point. It's your Look, anybody you pick in
the first three rounds should be able to be a
backup and be able to play if called upon. That's
(28:58):
what a first, second, or third round pick needs to be.
Now you're gonna be with tackle, Sure, there's chances that
you take in that, but I mean, if they're worth
that pick, they should be able to take on that
responsibility of being OT three okay and so, and potentially
be more than that going forward. There's I mean, there's
plenty of tackles that that play and have played on
(29:18):
good teams and had success. So that to me is
what the approach has to be. And that's not even
speaking about Orlando's level of play at all. If you
have any tackle entering the last year of his contract,
you better know what's going on next year. That position
is too hard to flip on the fly to all
(29:39):
of a sudden be able to just be like next year, say,
oh what are we going to do here? No, they
have to be preemptive about that regardless. So to me,
that's on the table. Yes, I agree. You would love
to be in a position where if that was your
only issue and you had extra money, you could go
get a different guy or get younger, or there's not
a ton out there.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
But like because it's.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
There's not a lot of offensive man, right that teams
are that are really good. The team's just letting me
out there on the open market. So it's scarce anyway,
But there are names that you could find an answer there.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I just feel like with him, and I hope this
isn't the case. And by the way, he's not even
thirty yet, he gets talked about like he's, you know,
thirty four years old. I think he turns thirty during
camp next year, so.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
And keeping him around could be an option. But I
think you'd want to see him play better this year
than he did last year. And and so my fear is.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
I could see a scenario where next season Orlando Brown
plays poorly, just sure the way it's trending. Sure, and
when he does, you go, man. I wish they could
have avoided this, but they can't. Like they can't. I
don't want whatever's behind Doort number two at left tackle,
but I wish the team was good enough to go,
you know what, everything else is pretty set. Let's let's
(30:57):
definitively use the tenth overall pick on a left tackle,
or let's find a suitable replacement and free agency to
pair with the tenth overall pick. And they just, to me,
can't do that because of all the other stuff they've
got to fix. And so what you're hoping for is
that Orlando Brunt plays at the level that he did
this year, and hopefully that happens, and if so, I
(31:18):
think we'll be okay with it. But I could see
a world where he doesn't, and you go, man, now
it's a liability. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Well, And I think one of the more interesting free
agency things to look at is what is their aggression
level at their third tackle position, Like, what is it
a replacement because they need a swing tackle, so it's
some you know, bargain two three million dollar guy whatever, journeyman,
or is it a little bit more of an aggressive
(31:45):
push into a higher salary range for somebody who could
be there in case things don't go well with with
Orlando Brown and try to take than feeling pigeonholed to
get an offensive tackle in the first three round or
first or second round or whatever, and play curious to
see how that plays out if they view that as
(32:05):
something that they should prioritize. My gut says that they won't,
but it's certainly possible.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah. I just as I was going down the list,
I was wrestling with do I really want Orlando Brown
on the team next year? And I've arrived at the
do I do that? I do do again? I just
wish the team was better that I can kind of
afford to go. You know what, Let's let's get out
in front of this now, because I think ideally, if
(32:34):
your organization is humming on all cylinders, that's what you do.
You move on from players before they have that sudden
drop off. And I fear by mid November, we're gonna go,
Holy hell, this is what the sudden drop off looks like.
Maybe that doesn't happen. Maybe he has a great year
in him, and that would be unsurprising as well. But
when you look at the offense, it's Riisner, it's maybe
(32:55):
a third wide receiver, and it's something at left tackle.
I wish you could make that a bigger priory, but
you can't, cause the defense. You may have heard not
very good.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Yeah, I's there's no doubt. But I mean, if you're
talking about using pick ten or forty one on a
tackle and you get to November and it's not very good,
that's the point where you make a change there anyway,
with a with a top pick.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
When you see a tweet from Joe Burrow, do you
assume he's been hacked?
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
First thought you assume you try to figure out if
it's really him. Uh, well, where does your mind go
when you see that Joe Burrow has decided to jump in? Like?
I enjoy Twitter, I really do. I use it to
amuse myself and to promote myself. I enjoy Twitter. I
don't necessarily know that. I understand after that app has
(33:44):
been around for seventeen years, why somebody would suddenly decide,
you know what I'm gonna do. Today's the day, Today's
the day I'm gonna jump in. And so I am.
I am fascinated by the mindset here is this. You know,
Joe Burrow only has something to lose on Twitter. There's
no thing for him to gain. It's Joe Burrow, right,
trying to gain the favor of the officials that I guess,
(34:05):
so so when I'm looking at the timeline and I
see a tweet from Joe Burrow. There are very few
times there's an audible reaction for me based on a
tweet that and it wasn't what he tweeted about. It
was like only hell, he remembered his password.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yes, which is maybe the most impressive part. And that
photographics true, Yes, remember all that stuff. No, do you
think he's a two.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Way authentication guy?
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:29):
I think he okay, cares about security. Okay, if I
was Joe Burrow, I wouldn't have.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Twit three four way authentication. There should be I think
probably more. Yeah, No, I think so. I think here's
the thing. I mean, I looked down and I did
the first hacked. Sure, right, gotta be And then it's like, okay,
maybe not what's going on?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Then I was just staring. I was kind of squinting.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
I have a we have a rule, like, let's let's
try not to have the phones out at the dinner table,
and normally I don't, but like, if I get a
bunch of buzz, I'm like, I'm just a quick peek.
And then I did the I was literally just leaning down,
staring to the point of my wife being like, what's wrong?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
What are you staring at?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I was?
Speaker 2 (35:08):
I think Joe Burrow tweeted. I'm not totally sure why
or how, but yes, uh that was.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
That was fairly stunning. I mean, I'm gonna go. I'm
gonna go with trying to get on the officials nice side.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
What do you believe is more newsworthy a Joe Burrow
tweet or a Nick Lache tweet.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Don't do this?
Speaker 1 (35:30):
This has been your thing. Don't do this has been
your thing.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Do you think a Joe Burrow tweet? Yes? I mean,
come on, are you I know what you're trying to
do here?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Do you disagree?
Speaker 3 (35:43):
You're trying to elicit reaction and you're gonna clip me
on this camera right here, and it's gonna.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Get You've already done that for your own podcast.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Yes, I don't want to do it anymore. I just
don't want to do it anymore.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Would you get in trouble?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
No? No, no, I didn't get in trouble. I just don't.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
I don't want to. I don't want leche Hive after me.
Apparent in twenty twenty six, clear this was not about Nick.
You shoudn't make it abundantly clear about people making Nick
tweets news. Yes, it's not news. How Joe Burrow anything
he does or says his news fair. There is a
lache hive like there's only rat like, I get it.
(36:20):
If you tweeted blind people, Okay, I don't even know.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
What that is?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
There are I don't is that? Is that a show
that he's on. Yeah, that's the show that he's on. Yes,
So you you went viral for and what you're viral Okay,
what your take was basically is just because nickolasche tweets
about the Bengals doesn't mean it's news. And there are
outlets who treated that like news. Yes, and your commentary
(36:46):
was about those outlets. Yeah right, yeah, let's be better.
Let's be better as a news outlet.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
It's clooney or nobody.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Fine, So, but that was your point. What I what
I am skeptical of is the suggestion that there are
people so passionate about Nick Lachet. Nothing against Nick, who
is a very nice man. Uh has had a very
good career, good for him, lives a charm life, good
for him, But there are people so attached to him
(37:14):
that they came after you.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
I mean, as much as anybody comes after anybody on Twitter,
it's hard to tell. I was being come after a
lot at that point. Yeah, so it kind of blended
in I think in the woodwork. But yeah, no, yeah,
there was some of there's some of that. But I
mean it's okay, okay, it's okay, it's it's fine. Everybody
has their things and didn't maybe they didn't agree.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
With my thoughts.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Well, I'm sure there are folks, namely at the publications
you were referencing, that didn't agree with you to get
some pushback from them.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
No, a media, they can't feel media few, they can't feel.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Good about it. Oh, come on, I was hoping for
a media feud.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
I mean I don't. I don't want one.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
No I do, I mean I don't want to be
in it. But as again, as an observer of chaos
an absurdity, yes, a good media feud would be awesome.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Yeah, we always has something real to feud over.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
No, that's who wants to do that? All right? Well,
has the leche or what do they call themselves?
Speaker 2 (38:07):
I don't. I don't know that.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
There were just some people that were that that showed
up and just felt like I didn't need this right.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Now, That's all. Okay, I get I understand that.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
I don't know they had names.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
They were Willingship probably is. I just don't know, all right,
I said, I think there's something about this that you're
not telling me. I don't think there is Nick's brother
come after you. He's in town, isn't he.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
It's just when people show up and you're mentions and
be like, you know, at the defense of Nickoliche that's all.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
But did they understand you weren't coming after Nick Lache?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
People never There's been a lot of misunderstanding. I feel
like happening, That's all, And I can't. I can't do
anything about that. Okay, what other people have misunderstood things
that have been said?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I can't. I'm just letting you know what happened. You asked.
I brought this up. I knew this is gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I'm enjoying you see them uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
I am uncomfortable. It makes me. You can go to
one of your breaks.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Paul Dan Junior, you could read his work at the
Athletic dot com. When does the mock the mock Off
seasons out of us Thursday soon?
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Yeah, hopefully hopefully spreadsheet. It's currently just going through the
last edits in the different levels of I've done the spreadsheet.
I don't know that you're gonna love it this year. Really,
some years you feel tortured, very yes, and I think
it might be closer to that this year than really. Yeah,
I was surprised because you want to do like I want.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
I wanted to do more.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
So my overhaul is not as possible as I.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Don't know, maybe it is. Maybe maybe you will come
away feeling differently. I my prediction, if I'm handicapping this
is that you'll come away and say that was frustrating. Okay,
that's my prediction. We're going to talk about a couple
of times. Here's my request. I don't know how this
works on the internet, but what for those who don't
know the mock off seasons a spreadsheet where you basically
(39:55):
build the roster, cut players, add free agents, draft, you know,
you the roster when the geno stone drop down when
I click on it and I click cut could could that?
Could a sound be incorporated? Could it be like when
you send a congratulations text in like balloons and.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Fireworks go off? Yeah? You know that's not a cut.
That sound that you get when you send, well, it's
not a cut. I guess not sign it would be
not bringing them back.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
I might have to create a whole separate dropdown. That's
just you have decided not to re sign Genostone.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
When you send an email. At least for me, if
I send an email on my phone use an outlook,
it sends a sound effect. Yeah, sometimes I will have
to send an email that I get a great amount
of pleasure out of sending. I love that sound. Yes,
I want I love that sound, and I want that
to be on the spreadsheet when I decide to not
(40:49):
bring back Genostone.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Maybe I can call it. Maybe I can give it
like a name like the mow Egger non re signing,
like you sponsored not re signing. Yes, you know Stone, sure, Moeger.
Decision to not re sign Genostone is what I'll put
it there in the drop down.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Ass So that's okay with that. Absolutely, that's later this week,
all right. Paul Danner Jinorita's worked the Athletic dot Com.
It was I thought it was outstanding.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
We got a lot of good stuff. Dan Pitcher play
calling Orlando Brown and Nicholas Chay. We can't beat it perfect,
just the way I drew it up.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Hopefully this is the last run for the nickolasche com It.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Will be, I promise. The Growler podcast available where you
get your podcasts, including YouTube and follow Paul Paul. It
is four minutes away from four o'clock. This is esp
at fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports station
Mo Egger News
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