January 6, 2026 • 42 mins
Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us to discuss the decision the Bengals have made to bring back both Zac Taylor and Duke Tobin, a decision Paul says is for the best.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
All right, it's up four minutes after three. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty. I'm Molegor, thank you for listening. We
are back in studio after a twenty one week run
at Oakley Greens and hope to be back there later
on in twenty twenty six. We're back in studio for
what feels like the first time in forever. So happy
(00:24):
to have you with us. I have not had time
to do a show preview video, but when I do,
it'll be a service of share Facts Credit Union.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
There is a lot going on.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Our friend Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and the
Growler podcast is here in studio with me. There are
only a few things to talk about, not the least
of which is Nick Lachey's reaction to what the Bengals
have decided to do in relation to their front office
and head coach.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Don't start it off that way, mo, don't do this.
Don't don't.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
This is already gonna be a long, a long hour, okay,
with a lot of ins and outs and a lot
of emotions.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Don't make me start off on the Nick lache rage. Okay.
I don't want to. I don't want to. You want
you want other people's rage, because I've got it. I'm
fine with.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Whoever the rage comes from. Actually, at this point, I
know there's plenty of it. That's totally fine.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Uh, it's awesome to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
It's good to be here. A lot going on. I
do miss Oakly Greens. I do miss Oakly Green.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It was very nice. It was three minutes from my house.
I was very appreciative of getting to go there all
year long. And I do love the studio. It was
nice to be here. There have food here, there, we
do it. I don't know who the food is from,
but I'm told it's smelled good. I'm told it's great.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, I don't know. Well, well let's get started. Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
You have you've written a piece that has stirred the masses. No,
it's really popular. It is really popular. I want folks
to read it. The headline though, reads Bengals keeping Zach
Taylor Duke Tobin is right move, even if it's maddening
for fans.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
The premise. I would.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
I think it's important that people read the story. Yes,
I don't think it's what a lot of people think
that it is. It is about the unique nature of
this organization and this point in time and where they
are at, and how different that is from just changing
(02:19):
it up like you would at really thirty one other
places in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I've had a lot of people that I've seen.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I did initially put the AirPods in and go listen
to some mindful meditation, because you know, I'm really bad
at resolutions. I'm trying to have more clarity and calm
in the new year. And that was probably the wrong
take to take on this story if I was going
to do that. But I did go in and see
a lot so of what people are very passionately understandably saying.
(02:47):
This is not about that people's anger and frustration is
misplaced or wrong, or that they shouldn't want change, or
that there aren't times where it absolutely would make sense.
And it's a very valid that is not really the
point of this. People don't know Jacksonville. Look, Jacksonville, just
did Lee Cohen in the Young GM change. If you
(03:09):
would like me to put a picture of shod Khan
next to Mike Brown and ask if you can tell
what the difference is with these two owners I can do. So,
It's so much about the circumstance of Cincinnati, and there
is a bit of a devil that you know, situation
in terms of people that know how to find ways
(03:33):
to work around the unique nature of ownership here, and
that there would be an adjustment period for anybody coming
in from the outside and figuring that out. And this
year is so important. There's enough going right to build
around and you can you can weaponize some of the
(03:54):
continuity to make up for mistakes that have been made,
many of which rightfully be called fireable fences, but you
can make up for that. You're in a good enough
place right now. There's so much on the line with
Joe Burrow, the offense that you have in place, and
more importantly, the absolute simplicity of this offseason. Don't make
(04:16):
it more complex than it needs to be around here,
because that is when you run into problems. We've seen
that in recent off seasons. Complexity has been a big
time issue for them to handle.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
It is simple.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
So the idea of adding a bunch of complexity over
what is a simple situation.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Fix the damn defense is really to me.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
I think where so much of this starts is just
take these people and have them go fix the defense
and use that as the way to go ahead rather
than bringing in unforced complexity a little bit into and
then say do you trust them to get all of that?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Right?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Okay, that's where it's It's not saying that they're not there,
shouldn't be on deck, that this in three hundred and
sixty five days might not feel very different, or that
there wasn't even that media would have been better to
do it last year, right like that. It's this point
in time right now is where I think just going
(05:18):
forward with it, in the nature where everything sits, it
was the better move. And I understand why people would
be very very mad about that.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
So this was published this morning and then you had
to go into a bunker.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, it just felt better to do that, I understand.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
And you turned off your ads or you weren't checking
social media. I thought what I would do is just
to give you maybe a little bit of your your
audience feedback, because the beauty of the Athletic is you're
allowed to comment, right. It's a subscription based website, and
so oftentimes there are some very good and meaningful discussions
that folks have in the comments. Actually, and I thought,
(05:53):
what I would do is read, over the course of
the next hour, read some of the comments to you. Yes,
charting with this one by R P P. Paul, I
love you. Your content is top notch, but this is
one of the hottest pieces of garbage you have ever written.
Not a lot of context there, Well, there's more. I
(06:14):
mean I could read the whole paragraph. Okay, it's a
good start. Yeah, that's fine. Then you know he or
she goes on to make a bunch of points about
the team. They finish it with love you, Paul, great writers,
huge fan. Now go burn this article. I appreciate that.
We just want people to read. Here's here's one we
have every subscriber. Here's one from Michael R. Hope you
(06:37):
get a nice bonus from Mike Brown for carrying in
the water.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Wow. See, I would. Here's here's a point that I
would make.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I feel like there is a lot of people being like, oh,
this is straight.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Out of Katie.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
The premise of the thing is that they can't handle this.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Right, yes, yes, The premise is that do not ask
the owner's ship here to try to do something this complicated.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
It's actually the opposite of that, and I don't. I don't.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
You know, it's fine, Like what however you want to
read it or view it or view me as I
was called propaganda Paul today.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
That's fine. I don't. I'll enjoy the nicknames, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
The point is that the inability to handle a very
complex off season is the entire premise right here.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
It's this is not out of ownership's printer, right. That's oh.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
I said it to you on the Growlary today that
this premise, your premise is a damning indictment against this organization.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
And I think that's how it should be taken. Yeah,
I mean, that's kind of where it's coming from. I
in that I think that the people that are in
there now understand how to operate in a franchise that
everyone listening knows is just different than everywhere else. And
I'm sure sure in that building they would say that
doesn't say that it's right or wrong or whatever like
(08:04):
they can we can debate that, but it is different.
And so the people that know how to work with
the different and have had success with that at points
in time, even though they haven't been recent would have
a better chance at in this spot than somebody knew
coming in.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
That's sort of the point. Well, Ryan C. Would disagree.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Ryan writes, this is a very bad take from the
best beat writer.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
In the game. Hey, I'll take that. So you know,
at least people are acknowledging that they like you, they
read you, they.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Follow at least those are the ones that you chose.
They like your work. But there's there's a level I
think there's disappointment here. Yeah. I appreciate that we have
Victor H who says, clearly Paul has been compromised. Paul,
Paul blink twice. If you could hear me. Yeah, I'm okay.
I think I'm okay.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
I understand it's very unpopular and maybe poorly time.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Can I ask you about a couple of things you
mentioned in the article. Yes, the word disconnect, So you're
write about there were lessons learned during the defensive transition
debacle of this past year, a disconnect between the staff
and personnel personnel department on what Golden needed and the
front office's ability to deliver it.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Now, I know there is a.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Huge desire by a lot of fans and certainly people
in the organization to talk about what's next. I guess
this is my question with that specifically, is how do
you have that disconnect?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
How do you not flesh that out during the interview process.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
How in the process of vetting Al Golden and making
the decision that he is going to be the defensive coordinator,
which the timing was Jankie because of Notre Dame in
the college football playoff, How before you hire him, before
he moves into his office, how does not everybody get
on the same page with regard to what they have
to do with his side of the football.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
How do you not have deals done for Jamar Chase
and Ti hig How do you not have a decision
on Trey Hendrickson. How do players constantly complain about communication
and make trade requests and voice public frustration every single year?
How are you constantly in hold ins and holdouts? And
(10:18):
this is it's a symptom of other things that we
hear in other places. It just feels like somewhere in
that mix, whether it was dealing with the receivers at
the same time, whether it was miscommunication over what they
actually planned to do in free agency, whether it was
just being unable to execute what they thought the plan
(10:40):
was going to be and having to settle and being
surprised at the settling whatever that was. Yeah, that was
a disconnect in the execution of what I don't think
it wasn't discussed.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Or fleshed out.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I think the execution of it went off the rails
in a complex offseason. When we talked about last year
about how it was one of the most challenging, complex
offseasons that this team had had and most important because
of the nature of all the different things they had
going on and hanging in the balance with Joe wanting
all those guys in the stadium and the deals and
Trey Hendrickson and like, plus fixing the defense and a
(11:17):
new coordinator. It feels like in retrospect and it felt
like in the moment, it feels like one too many
things is on their plate right now and they're not.
And I think that's a big part of what the
disconnect I'm referring to is something I don't know who's
at fault. I don't really care to be honest, it's
it's all of them are responsible for coming together and
(11:37):
finding a way to execute a plan that feels like
it played out, And I don't think anyone can say
that that was executed and played out correctly.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Well, John Jay here would say, like others have said, Paul,
I really love your work and content. You're simply one
of the best there is, but this is just terrible.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Cool, all right, So there's a lot and I want
to stay on time today, which we never do.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
But there's a lot to get to here.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Read Paul's piece the Athletic dot Com all the comment
they have a comment.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yes, the comments are great.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, this might be a new feature as we get
into the off season, or maybe like once a month.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I'll have a hard time having a more unpopular column
than this one, though. Yeah. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I don't know what you could do to top this one.
But you know what, Actually, there is a guy hang on,
hang on, hangout?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Did you find one?
Speaker 4 (12:28):
No?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
No, no no.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
So I like what this person said. This is Junior
G going to take the opposite side here and say, well,
I think Paul is wrong in his analysis. I'm glad
we have a writer who won't always do the easy
thing and agree with the fan takes all the time.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Thanks. I appreciate that. I just it's the way I
feel about it.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Knowing what I know, about the organization in terms of
what do we talk about all the time, though you
say it to me all the time from a fan perspective,
you want to win next year, you want to win
the Super Bowl. I'm telling you, in my opinion, their
best chance to win the Super Bowl next year is
through this method. And people are probably going off the
(13:10):
road hearing that. But for everything that we just talked
about and explained, adding the complexity does not give them
a better chance of winning the super Bowl next year.
In the fallout from that not happening is obviously significant
in what is turning into the ultimate pressure cooker season
next year.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
You know who's not going off the road, Cam Taylor
Britt because he apparently already did that that spending the
week in jail. It is seventeen minutes after three o'clock.
Read Paul's work the Athletic dot Com. Catch the latest
episode of the Growler podcast as well.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
He's here till four.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
We're here till six on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati sports station.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
It is twenty two minutes after three o'clock.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Cincinnati's most popular sports writer, Paul Danner Junior, is here
from the Athletic I tweeted out the link a few
minutes ago. If you don't know what we're talking about,
it it's a piece. Well take it from a Clifford
w Here who writes, gosh, mister, you sure right pretty?
Speaker 1 (14:13):
I like that one a compliment.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
So the word complex is used a lot, right, like,
let's not make the off season more complex than needed
because on surface level, on a surface level, what they
have to do is really easy. Fix the defense. Now,
that sounds easy as we saw last offseason. Eh, you know,
don't put it past them to screw it up. I
(14:36):
guess one of the things I wonder, and one of
the things that I think a lot of people wonder,
is how will they make it more complex than they
need to be? Because that feels like it's the Cincinnati
Bengals mo to make things more difficult than they need
to be. And you talked about Chasin Higgins and the
soap opera that both of those contract issues became the
(14:57):
Shamar Stewart thing this offseason, Trey hendrickson any number of things,
and we talked on the Growler today. For me, the
litmus test is Dalton Reisner, Like you got a guy
who plays a position you've had a hard time filling.
He's pretty good. He wants to be here. Just get
it done, don't don't add another wrench to the off season.
(15:18):
And so I guess what I wonder, maybe not so
much with that situation in particular, I wonder what things
are they going to do this offseason to get in
their own way, to get in the way of doing
what should be Again, not easy, but it's easy. It's
easy to understand what they have to do to fix
the team, whether or not they do it. What do
(15:40):
they do to complex to make as I'm doing right now?
What do they do to make the simple more complex
that it needs to be?
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Well?
Speaker 3 (15:46):
It usually comes back to negotiations gone wrong in communication, right,
That's where a lot of this typically stems from.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
We've heard that word a lot from players.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
So I look to the two things that you would
think are on their plate DJ Turner, Dax phill Right,
extensions that would need to be done that they would
like to get done. You'd love to have that, Probably
something you do before the year starts to set. Theoretically
that we've talked about this, don't let this play out.
Don't let these guys see free agency get ahead of it,
(16:19):
if you can get it, get in there now, if
you could, or will it go by what we've seen
happen a lot of times here where it gets dragged
out into training camp. Next thing, you know, we're referencing
how Holden's and hat Watch and DJ Turner is offended
by the you know, a low ball offer, doesn't feel
(16:41):
like they value them, and we're back down the Jesse Bates,
the t Higgins, the all of these roads that we've
been down every single off season. It feels like right
like so it's an ability to get those things stand
up because also, you know, you're gonna think they're gonna
want to have money set aside for that. That would
take away from maybe spending more on free agency, and
(17:05):
maybe there would be an unwillingness to do things with
say like Joe Burrow's contract to what we don't want
to do for money or make things make some of
the contracts they do have work to have more money
in free agency or void years that they've usually reluctant
to use even though they have. Sporadically, things like that
(17:27):
can get in the way. Things like that can make
it harder, and you just want you want the quiet
training camp, Yes, and they just haven't had enough of those.
And I guess they had as close to one as
they can this year and saw what happened. But you
still had so much of a very distracting off season,
with Trey being the most notable aspect of that. Trying
(17:48):
to have everybody happy on board. Some of the positivity
that you guys heard Zach Taylor talk about in these
exit meetings that he had carry over, well, you can
lose that in contentious negotiations with guys that are viewed
as what the core they want to go forward with
on this defense, the ones they actually like that are
(18:09):
worth investing it. I wonder about that. I don't know
where that's gonna go. We'll see, but that's where I
would start.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Can't wait to see what they do to make my
job easier in May. So like for what we do.
The slow times are February, right, you're kind of post football,
pre baseball, and then you kind of get the newness
of the baseball season behind you in the draft and
you get to May in June. I had no such
issues the last couple of years. Coming up with things
(18:43):
to discuss has been very easy because the Bengals have
always given put you know, stuff on a platter for me.
The objective should be, let's make mo work this year.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Let's make him.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Sit down some days during the off season and stare
to the heavens and go, huh, what do we talk
about as it relates to the Bengals that And now
the Reds could have something to do with that, obviously
if they're good this year.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
But still, let's make Moe's job hard.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
The last few years, Duke Tobin, this front office, this
ownership group, and a number of players have made the
job very easy because they create these distractions. They create
these soap operas. They create these series of circumstances that
feel like they could get in the way of a nice,
quiet offseason, in particular one this year where it's it's
(19:29):
paramount to use Joe Burrow's word, that they put themselves
in a position to win big well.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
And you know, the other thing would be, what does
that free agency week feel like? You know, I mean,
is it quiet again? Is there a we believe in
our guys? And there's a few small additions that don't
exactly change the nature of linebacker or safety or the
defensive line or whatever or and that has everybody wondering
(19:58):
what the heck's going on? Are they just really running
this back. I don't necessarily think that will be the case,
but there is going to be. You said it, Joe
Burrow said it. It's of paramount importance that that thing
feels impactful in some kind of way, whether whatever that is.
I mean, it doesn't have to be in signing free agents.
It can be in doing other things, but like, it
(20:19):
has to feel a real effort to bring quality level
of play up a level at safety, at linebacker, on
the defensive line, all over the place. And if you
don't do that and you just say, well, we saw progress,
then you run into trouble because now the rest of
(20:41):
the building, those players are like, we're really doing this,
you know, And you don't want that, like try to
keep everybody on board and believe in and having confidence
in the movies that you made and excited. You want
that excitement as the team enters camp in the season
and all those things.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Well, excitement is not exactly what I read in the
comment for Matt Kay, who writes spoken like a guy
who wants to be greeted warmly and have a nice
front row seat at Friday's press conference. Duke Tobin's gonna
talk on Friday. Yeah, we're gonna talk about that next.
Look forward to it on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
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This report is service of Kelsey Chevrolet, Home of Lifetime
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yours for life kelseyshow dot com. Jamar Chase has been
named the Bengals twenty twenty five MVP by the Cincinnati
Chapter of the Pro Football Writers of America.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Congratulations to Jamar.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Cam Taylor Britt is in jail for five days because
of he pled guilty to reckless driving and driving with
a restricted license in Hamilton County Municipal Court. He was
immediately sentenced. He was given two sets of tickets in
twenty twenty five. First came in June when Cincinnati police
said he was driving a twenty twenty two Dodge Charger
(22:35):
recklessly with five occupants in the car and four street
Second set of tickets came in September, police said he
was street racing on Joe Knucks Allway.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
He shouldn't do that. Cam Taylor Britt in jail for
five days. Have you ever Have you ever done street
racing beforema? No? No, never, never had an appeal to me.
Never quite understood street racing.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
If I was going to do street racing on Joe
knuxall Way between a whole slew of establishments and Great
American Ballpark is probably not where I would street race.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
No, No, I feel like there's some places in the
country maybe when you.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Decide a street race and you go, okay, we need
a place. Where do you want to go? Let's go
over there by the Holy Grail, Like that's what are
we doing sitting in jails?
Speaker 1 (23:21):
What we're doing?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
College basketball? I don't know if they'll show this game
in jail. It's UC West Virginia. Game tips off at
seven o'clock on seven hundred WLW. Miami tries to stay
undefeated as the RedHawks host Western Michigan. Dayton takes on
George Washington Hockey Tonight. The Blue Jackets skate at San Jose.
Paul Danner Junior from the Athletic and the Growlar podcast
(23:43):
is here. Duke Tobin's going to talk on Friday. This
is unprecedented as far as I'm concerned. I can't recall
a situation like this where the season has ended and
without him sitting up there with a coach that has
been hired.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
He has answered questions from you guys.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Do you think this is Duke raising his hand going okay,
here I am or you do do you think he
is being pushed to the podium by the people that
he works for.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I think it's more push than than stepping up. But
I think there's a recognition that it was necessary. I think,
you know, this time last year, we were very vocal
and critical over the fact that they didn't do it.
This time last year, I think that's kind of where
(24:31):
this started. It gained steam during the year when it
was like people want to hear from him over what's
gone on.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And let's be clear about this. It's not like you
guys haven't asked for him.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
No, this has been going on.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
But I think it's been the it's the timing, and
it's because it's not like he also hasn't talked. I
think there's maybe some misconception out there that like Duke
doesn't know, Like it's just about the timing of it. Normally,
this period of discussion happens in Mobile, Alabama at the
Senior Bow when you're three or four weeks removed and
you know you're not in all the media is here, right,
(25:05):
there's only so many people being stream live, right, there's
none of that stuff going on. It's it's it's much
more out of sight. You're outside of out of mind.
You're kind of a dead period in the schedule, and
it's easy in Mobile to you're you're flipping forward, you're
looking forward. You're not having to answer for what happened.
And when you don't talk since before you know, a
(25:27):
mock turtles suit before camp starts, well there's never a
chance to answer for the questions that play that the
where the answers played out over the course of the season,
it felt there was that never existed, and that's kind
of what we've been wanting. And so I I do
I commend the Bengals for doing it, though I know
it's late and it feels like it should have been
happened there, maybe it should be more whatever, But I
(25:49):
do commend them for offering this transparency to their fans
through us or whatever. But like I I, that's what
it's a It's not about us, right, It's about people
want these answers from And we have to ask Zach Taylor,
who can't answer that, right. And so if the timing
of this is what this is about, But yeah, I
think it's the recognition of the need for transparency and
(26:13):
a little bit of accountability from him.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Do you think this launches us into a new era
of transparency and accountability where Duke Tobin speaks more frequently.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Not necessarily. I think this is a one of them
test balloons. Maybe I don't know see how it goes.
This is not a this isn't a precedent, This isn't
like every year now this is going to happen. I
don't think that's the case. But I would agree that's
certainly been my contention for a while. I think it's helpful.
(26:46):
I only think it's fair if Joe Burrow has to
answer the questions, if Jamar Chase has to get up
to answer the questions, Zach Taylorzach Taylor has to get
up there and answer the questions, and oftentimes they are
answering questions that should be directed towards the person putting
the roster together, then yeah, I think that that should
at least happen once in in that particular timeframe. So yeah,
(27:10):
I think that's fair. I don't I don't know what
will happen, and I don't know anybody knows for sure
what will happen in terms of precedent.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
I just know that they're doing it now.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I appreciate the fact that he's doing it, whether it's
him raising his hand and saying I'll do it or
them telling him he has to.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
I don't know that he can say anything on Friday
to make me or any other fan feel any better.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, I don't know that.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yeah, I don't know that there's some thing that he's
gonna say that's just gonna make it click for everybody, Like, yeah, yeah,
you know what I mean. I just think people just
it's the same reason that I've said said that this
is necessary. People just want to understand the perspective. Yeah
(27:52):
they want to be mad too, but that's fine. But
I just think it's it's it doesn't help anybody when
I think people don't feel like they under nderstand your
view of what went wrong, and they do what they
assume ineptitude and that's not the case. Like, I know
that that's painted that way, but I just think there's
an assumption of that when you're not able to offer
(28:12):
the transparency and an explanation that people want to hear
from your point of view.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Well, in your piece, you use the term trial balloon
your lead balloon piece, because that's what it's gone over
with the athletic. You wrote about new opportunities to learn
about miscommunications, right, and look, every season provides opportunities to learn.
You learn about your team, you learn about your coat,
you learn about the process, learn about the league, learn
about your opponents. I guess the two things I'm interested
(28:41):
in and I don't necessarily need a show. I don't
need an apology I don't need fireworks. I do think
the perspective of Duke, given his position, is interesting, and
so given that this went so poorly, I would want
to know your perspective why did this go poorly? I
(29:03):
don't know that he could say anything that makes me
go okay, great, great, okay, Well that wasn't so bad,
but all right, like you, you were in charge of
this roster. This roster underperformed, and one part of the
roster that underperformed, I think we thought coming into the
season was likely not going to be all that good.
So give me your perspective on why this went sideways.
And then the other one would be what did you learn,
(29:25):
whether it be about the team, the coach, your relationship
with Zach, how you have to communicate, how you have
to be on the same page with all of the coaches?
What did this season? What lessons did this season provide you?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Yeah, it's a question that I think poorly asked yesterday,
trying to talk about how can the continuity that you
guys have had be different?
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Now?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah, like what are those lessons? And it's the main
question we all have. How do you do things differently
with the same people?
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Right?
Speaker 3 (29:54):
How can those lessons and how can the continuity that
you have now be a weapon to where maybe it
hasn't been enough in the past. And I think Zach's
answer was that you know, they have more continuity now.
That meant that's when he started talking about the year
two of out Golden and the pieces that are in
place and just bringing everybody back and they haven't necessarily
(30:15):
had this much continuity before and that can lend itself
to more success and clarity. But yeah, I would want
to know. It's fine to hear that from one set.
I want to know what the other side feels about
that too, about how the same people can work better
together going forward and why that is you know, a
solution to believe in and whatever the answer there the
(30:35):
answer is. But yeah, I think that's what everybody wants
to know, is how do you make how do you
make this thing produce different results with the same people.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
A couple of other things.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
In the coming weeks, You're going to do the list
of pending free agents, and you always assign a percentage.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Yes, in the process of writing there right now.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
As to the odds, you know that each guy is
going to sign, So I look forward to that what
of all of the and I'll make it about pending
free agents, but also players from the twenty three class
that have a year left on their deal or a
guy like Dax Hill as well. Which player represents the
most difficult decision?
Speaker 3 (31:16):
I think BJ Hill is an interesting one. They could
move on from BJ and they have to take on
like seven and change and dead money and save almost
five in the cap, which is, you know, not a
lot of money in the big picture of it, but
when you're trying to figure out how to reorganize the
(31:38):
defense and how much do you want to kind of
run it back and how much do you want to
take a chance on new players and that do different things.
BJ is was a really interesting guy, and that you know,
he was a captain, which we know doesn't really mean
anything on defense. We particularly learned that like, but he
was a captain and he was playing all year. He
played hurt. They were using him in a weird way
(32:01):
in that he wasn't really used as a pass rusher.
He was using an early down run stopper, which I
don't know how much that fits who he is. I
think there's still value in him as a player, but
can you get better for that money that you would save. Also,
I don't think there's I think there's some internal belief
in Chris Jenkins, but there's big time question mark around
(32:23):
whether he'll ever be a guy yeah right now. Like
I quite famously felt better about Miles Murphy than I
last year than I than I do about Chris Jenkins
right now.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I just I don't You.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Got to see a lot, I think from him to
feel like he's going to get there, and so you
need an insurance on that under the assumption you're also
bringing in more players of his position.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
So how they view that if they want to.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Totally get out of that game and change, I think
is going to be maybe a little bit indicative of
what direction the offseason goes. He has a two million
dollar roster bonus in the fifth day of the league
year that will kind of can maybe give us a
clue on what their decision has been rather than waiting
it out until camp or whatever. So I think that'll
(33:05):
be an interesting one. But I like BJ Hill in
the b.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
J Hill role.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
In the BJ Hill role, yes, so the reserve yea
or rotational defensive tackle can do different things. They've constantly
asked him to do too much since Larry Ogan Joey
left and so yeah, but but is that what is
that worth can they I just think that's gonna be
an interesting one to watch.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
I expected you to say, Joseph, I.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Just don't think he fits what he's gonna get what
they need like they like you have Shamar Stewart, you
have Miles Murphy, you have like two's and.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
He's a two.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
And he's gonna be paid like paid, like maybe more
like a one because he dictates in free agency and
he's had an injury history, He's got this risk thing.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Like I just I think someone will.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Pay Joseph, and he's played well enough to get it.
I just don't know that what that costs what they
need fits here, And so for that fact, I feel
like more than likely will go. It's just a matter
of that. It's not that he's a bad player, it's
(34:19):
just where they're at. I think they could get They
probably feel like they could get somebody better that does.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Fit them better for that amount of money.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
This is maybe a stupid question. It's not the first
one that I've asked. We're in the coaching cycle and
there's a lot of underwhelming names for what it's worth.
Lou An Romo is going to get a shot to
interview with the New York Giants for their vacancy and
the Titans. And the Titans, I'm looking at the ESPN
on Sunday morning during their pregame show, and they're throwing
(34:48):
up all these names of guys who could get a
chance to interview, and there's some retread to it. Man,
So the Bengals offense is good. Dan Pitcher's been here
for a while. Is it remotely surprise that somebody hasn't said,
let's give him an interview.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
I thought it was more than remotely surprising last year
and they went six and eleven, and I get it,
you know there, So it's hard. If you need, you
usually need to win. But you know, Brian Callahan, when
they had to play with the backup quarterback, got his job.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, I think it's I have not.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
I think it's there's there's a partial nature of the
just people just give Joe Burrow all the credit.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
I have not for the life of me. Do you think.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Callahan's failure in Nashville hurts Pitcher as a prospective head
coach while the team is Maybe I mean it doesn't help.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
It certainly doesn't help. I'd like to think of them
as different people. I don't think you can just lump
them together as you know, Burrow's kids. I don't think
that's fair. I don't think it's definitely not fair to Dan.
I have been surprised at how little he's gotten because
his background is different, Like Brian's background was quarterback guru,
(36:06):
so if you're taking a quarterback, you need to get
your quarterback situation fixed. He was the guy and it
didn't go well, get fired for cam mooreon ever really
even started playing and whatever. It's just a different story.
But pitches a much broader background in his background in analytics,
in scouting, is much more of an all encompassing head
(36:26):
coach type background than even Brian's was. And so that's
where I feel like I'm surprised more teams aren't intrigued
by that when he also brings the quarterback and the
offense stuff with him. So that's yeah, I don't will
see how that plays out, but yeah, you're right, I
mean in those names. That's the other, you know, less
discussed portion of the conversation that we had with my
(36:49):
piece is that this ain't a Ben Johnson Mike Rabel year.
I mean, it's different if that's sitting out there. If
Ben Johnson's sitting out here wants to come coach Joe
Burrow or Mike Rabel's like, let's do it, then then
maybe you're having different conversations. But that candidate doesn't exist.
I mean, the Bengals aren't the only ones that sat
(37:10):
okay Indy, I felt like I saw my guy zat
Kiefer for US wrote the Indie story on why they
decided to stand Pat with Shane Steichen and Chris Ballard
felt like he wrote the same story I did not
as pand.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
I haven't read the comments, but I can.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
It's fine, it's much more explanatory, but there's a new
ownership situation whatever.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
That's not the only one.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Lot of places stood Pat that maybe you would have
thought changes could have happened, and so that I think
that's also partially response to just the lack of big
time candidates that happened to be out there this year.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Is this the least popular piece you've ever written? Probably?
I mean, I don't know, man, I'd have to think
of something the top it. I knew it.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
I said, I told, I said to my editor yesterday, Dave,
I said, I said, we might break the angry comments
effort tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
I'm not trying to.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
I was like, I just feel like I want to
say this, and I know it's gonna probably be taken
the right way, the wrong way I mean and just
and obviously be poorly timed and the wrong topic.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
At this moment.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
I sat down this morning at ten minutes after nine o'clock.
I had taken my daughter to school, made a cup
of coffee, did a few things, and I sit down
at my desk in my office to you know, start
on the day. And the very first thing I see
is the tweet right from you sending out the piece.
And I wanted to just text you. We'd be like, oh,
thank you, thanks, one more thing, one more thing. Did
(38:41):
you guys want to laugh at Zach Taylor when he
was whining about the game being stopped on Sunday?
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Not really well, I was more I was actually more
interested in the logistics of the fact that it truly
wasn't discussed to just write, what are we gonna do
if you were, as an as an officiating crew going
to stop the game? How does that not when you
knew they did talk about Miles's record in the pre
(39:10):
ninety minute before the game meeting, right, and you didn't say,
we'll probably stop the game. So even mention that, like,
to me, I was much more interested in just the
logistics over than the fact that he was whining about it.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
So I was wondering about the logistics, but I was
wondering about it from Zach's perspective because we were doing
our show on Sunday morning, and I asked, kind of
just rhetorically, like if he breaks the record, is there
going to be a pause in the action? Like not,
we allowed a stage and let's bring him a car
and shower him with gifts like forty one ninety two,
But like, there's there have been records that have fallen,
(39:44):
and granted usually the player is performing at home, but
records that fall and they pause the game to acknowledge it.
If I'm wondering that at nine thirty in the morning,
shouldn't Zach Taylor be wondering that at nine thirty in
the morning enough to say to one of the officials, Hey, guys,
if he gets the sack, what happens. Yeah, So then
at least he can plan if our guy gets sacked
(40:05):
and it's Miles Garrett, here's what's gonna happen. So I
pin that on Zach. Yeah, and an example of his
lack of preparation for the moments.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Fair.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Yeah, I mean I I would assume that the I mean,
I don't know who the hell knows I would have.
I've never been in one of those meetings specifically. I
do know that they discussed Miles Garrett situation. But yeah,
if it wasn't said like are you going to stop
the game and we're in a two minute drill? M
m uh, yeah, that is probably on him as well.
But you would think the officials think that they're supposed
(40:35):
to be on top of that. I don't whining about it.
I mean I was so over the season at that point,
like whatever, does anybody care about what happened in this game?
Speaker 2 (40:43):
No.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Only it mattered in that game was that Joe Burrow
was healthy. That's what I put on social media.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
And he and they they had they coached and played
like it like they were in that game trying to
keep him healthy. And I don't have any problem with
that that personally, if not only that could have gone
wrong if I wrote it before the game even started.
The only thing that can go wrong today doesn't have
to do the winning, losing.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Any of it. None of it matters.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
The only thing that matters is does Joe Burrow walk
off this field healthy?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
I was watching though a local television station on Sunday night,
and one of the people on this local television station
referred to the loss as a heartbreaker.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Oh really, uh, it really was tough.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
You just want to be seven and ten, I guess
so you can't six and eleven. It just feels so
much worse. Thank you as always, Thank you? Are there
any more any more comments that you didn't get into
any more nicknames?
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Really? Just this is from Andy W. Really disappointing article, Paul.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
This is a take that is incredibly myopic and misguided,
which is ironic considering the content is about how enacting
change would be a short sighted decision.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
That wasn't as good as the other one that called
it hot garbage. Yeah, I'm sure they're a pilot up.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
I'm sure you know you have the thing there where
like you have to hit load comments, there's more. I
do that like three times and I'm like, all right,
I got stuff to do. I can't do this all day,
but there were There's a lot there.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I know there is. I know there is.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Repaul's piece at the Athletic dot com. Make sure you
leave a comment and listen to the Growlar podcast as well.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
We'll see you next week.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
It is a five away from four o'clock. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati sports station.
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
All right, it's up four minutes after three. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty. I'm Molegor, thank you for listening. We
are back in studio after a twenty one week run
at Oakley Greens and hope to be back there later
on in twenty twenty six. We're back in studio for
what feels like the first time in forever. So happy
(00:24):
to have you with us. I have not had time
to do a show preview video, but when I do,
it'll be a service of share Facts Credit Union.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
There is a lot going on.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Our friend Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and the
Growler podcast is here in studio with me. There are
only a few things to talk about, not the least
of which is Nick Lachey's reaction to what the Bengals
have decided to do in relation to their front office
and head coach.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Don't start it off that way, mo, don't do this.
Don't don't.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
This is already gonna be a long, a long hour, okay,
with a lot of ins and outs and a lot
of emotions.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Don't make me start off on the Nick lache rage. Okay.
I don't want to. I don't want to. You want
you want other people's rage, because I've got it. I'm
fine with.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Whoever the rage comes from. Actually, at this point, I
know there's plenty of it. That's totally fine.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Uh, it's awesome to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
It's good to be here. A lot going on. I
do miss Oakly Greens. I do miss Oakly Green.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It was very nice. It was three minutes from my house.
I was very appreciative of getting to go there all
year long. And I do love the studio. It was
nice to be here. There have food here, there, we
do it. I don't know who the food is from,
but I'm told it's smelled good. I'm told it's great.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, I don't know. Well, well let's get started. Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
You have you've written a piece that has stirred the masses. No,
it's really popular. It is really popular. I want folks
to read it. The headline though, reads Bengals keeping Zach
Taylor Duke Tobin is right move, even if it's maddening
for fans.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
The premise. I would.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
I think it's important that people read the story. Yes,
I don't think it's what a lot of people think
that it is. It is about the unique nature of
this organization and this point in time and where they
are at, and how different that is from just changing
(02:19):
it up like you would at really thirty one other
places in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I've had a lot of people that I've seen.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I did initially put the AirPods in and go listen
to some mindful meditation, because you know, I'm really bad
at resolutions. I'm trying to have more clarity and calm
in the new year. And that was probably the wrong
take to take on this story if I was going
to do that. But I did go in and see
a lot so of what people are very passionately understandably saying.
(02:47):
This is not about that people's anger and frustration is
misplaced or wrong, or that they shouldn't want change, or
that there aren't times where it absolutely would make sense.
And it's a very valid that is not really the
point of this. People don't know Jacksonville. Look, Jacksonville, just
did Lee Cohen in the Young GM change. If you
(03:09):
would like me to put a picture of shod Khan
next to Mike Brown and ask if you can tell
what the difference is with these two owners I can do. So,
It's so much about the circumstance of Cincinnati, and there
is a bit of a devil that you know, situation
in terms of people that know how to find ways
(03:33):
to work around the unique nature of ownership here, and
that there would be an adjustment period for anybody coming
in from the outside and figuring that out. And this
year is so important. There's enough going right to build
around and you can you can weaponize some of the
(03:54):
continuity to make up for mistakes that have been made,
many of which rightfully be called fireable fences, but you
can make up for that. You're in a good enough
place right now. There's so much on the line with
Joe Burrow, the offense that you have in place, and
more importantly, the absolute simplicity of this offseason. Don't make
(04:16):
it more complex than it needs to be around here,
because that is when you run into problems. We've seen
that in recent off seasons. Complexity has been a big
time issue for them to handle.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
It is simple.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
So the idea of adding a bunch of complexity over
what is a simple situation.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Fix the damn defense is really to me.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
I think where so much of this starts is just
take these people and have them go fix the defense
and use that as the way to go ahead rather
than bringing in unforced complexity a little bit into and
then say do you trust them to get all of that?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Right?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Okay, that's where it's It's not saying that they're not there,
shouldn't be on deck, that this in three hundred and
sixty five days might not feel very different, or that
there wasn't even that media would have been better to
do it last year, right like that. It's this point
in time right now is where I think just going
(05:18):
forward with it, in the nature where everything sits, it
was the better move. And I understand why people would
be very very mad about that.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
So this was published this morning and then you had
to go into a bunker.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, it just felt better to do that, I understand.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
And you turned off your ads or you weren't checking
social media. I thought what I would do is just
to give you maybe a little bit of your your
audience feedback, because the beauty of the Athletic is you're
allowed to comment, right. It's a subscription based website, and
so oftentimes there are some very good and meaningful discussions
that folks have in the comments. Actually, and I thought,
(05:53):
what I would do is read, over the course of
the next hour, read some of the comments to you. Yes,
charting with this one by R P P. Paul, I
love you. Your content is top notch, but this is
one of the hottest pieces of garbage you have ever written.
Not a lot of context there, Well, there's more. I
(06:14):
mean I could read the whole paragraph. Okay, it's a
good start. Yeah, that's fine. Then you know he or
she goes on to make a bunch of points about
the team. They finish it with love you, Paul, great writers,
huge fan. Now go burn this article. I appreciate that.
We just want people to read. Here's here's one we
have every subscriber. Here's one from Michael R. Hope you
(06:37):
get a nice bonus from Mike Brown for carrying in
the water.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Wow. See, I would. Here's here's a point that I
would make.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I feel like there is a lot of people being like, oh,
this is straight.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Out of Katie.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
The premise of the thing is that they can't handle this.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Right, yes, yes, The premise is that do not ask
the owner's ship here to try to do something this complicated.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
It's actually the opposite of that, and I don't. I don't.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
You know, it's fine, Like what however you want to
read it or view it or view me as I
was called propaganda Paul today.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
That's fine. I don't. I'll enjoy the nicknames, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
The point is that the inability to handle a very
complex off season is the entire premise right here.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
It's this is not out of ownership's printer, right. That's oh.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
I said it to you on the Growlary today that
this premise, your premise is a damning indictment against this organization.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
And I think that's how it should be taken. Yeah,
I mean, that's kind of where it's coming from. I
in that I think that the people that are in
there now understand how to operate in a franchise that
everyone listening knows is just different than everywhere else. And
I'm sure sure in that building they would say that
doesn't say that it's right or wrong or whatever like
(08:04):
they can we can debate that, but it is different.
And so the people that know how to work with
the different and have had success with that at points
in time, even though they haven't been recent would have
a better chance at in this spot than somebody knew
coming in.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
That's sort of the point. Well, Ryan C. Would disagree.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Ryan writes, this is a very bad take from the
best beat writer.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
In the game. Hey, I'll take that. So you know,
at least people are acknowledging that they like you, they
read you, they.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Follow at least those are the ones that you chose.
They like your work. But there's there's a level I
think there's disappointment here. Yeah. I appreciate that we have
Victor H who says, clearly Paul has been compromised. Paul,
Paul blink twice. If you could hear me. Yeah, I'm okay.
I think I'm okay.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
I understand it's very unpopular and maybe poorly time.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Can I ask you about a couple of things you
mentioned in the article. Yes, the word disconnect, So you're
write about there were lessons learned during the defensive transition
debacle of this past year, a disconnect between the staff
and personnel personnel department on what Golden needed and the
front office's ability to deliver it.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Now, I know there is a.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Huge desire by a lot of fans and certainly people
in the organization to talk about what's next. I guess
this is my question with that specifically, is how do
you have that disconnect?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
How do you not flesh that out during the interview process.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
How in the process of vetting Al Golden and making
the decision that he is going to be the defensive coordinator,
which the timing was Jankie because of Notre Dame in
the college football playoff, How before you hire him, before
he moves into his office, how does not everybody get
on the same page with regard to what they have
to do with his side of the football.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
How do you not have deals done for Jamar Chase
and Ti hig How do you not have a decision
on Trey Hendrickson. How do players constantly complain about communication
and make trade requests and voice public frustration every single year?
How are you constantly in hold ins and holdouts? And
(10:18):
this is it's a symptom of other things that we
hear in other places. It just feels like somewhere in
that mix, whether it was dealing with the receivers at
the same time, whether it was miscommunication over what they
actually planned to do in free agency, whether it was
just being unable to execute what they thought the plan
(10:40):
was going to be and having to settle and being
surprised at the settling whatever that was. Yeah, that was
a disconnect in the execution of what I don't think
it wasn't discussed.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Or fleshed out.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I think the execution of it went off the rails
in a complex offseason. When we talked about last year
about how it was one of the most challenging, complex
offseasons that this team had had and most important because
of the nature of all the different things they had
going on and hanging in the balance with Joe wanting
all those guys in the stadium and the deals and
Trey Hendrickson and like, plus fixing the defense and a
(11:17):
new coordinator. It feels like in retrospect and it felt
like in the moment, it feels like one too many
things is on their plate right now and they're not.
And I think that's a big part of what the
disconnect I'm referring to is something I don't know who's
at fault. I don't really care to be honest, it's
it's all of them are responsible for coming together and
(11:37):
finding a way to execute a plan that feels like
it played out, And I don't think anyone can say
that that was executed and played out correctly.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Well, John Jay here would say, like others have said, Paul,
I really love your work and content. You're simply one
of the best there is, but this is just terrible.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Cool, all right, So there's a lot and I want
to stay on time today, which we never do.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
But there's a lot to get to here.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Read Paul's piece the Athletic dot Com all the comment
they have a comment.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yes, the comments are great.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, this might be a new feature as we get
into the off season, or maybe like once a month.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I'll have a hard time having a more unpopular column
than this one, though. Yeah. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I don't know what you could do to top this one.
But you know what, Actually, there is a guy hang on,
hang on, hangout?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Did you find one?
Speaker 4 (12:28):
No?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
No, no no.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
So I like what this person said. This is Junior
G going to take the opposite side here and say, well,
I think Paul is wrong in his analysis. I'm glad
we have a writer who won't always do the easy
thing and agree with the fan takes all the time.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Thanks. I appreciate that. I just it's the way I
feel about it.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Knowing what I know, about the organization in terms of
what do we talk about all the time, though you
say it to me all the time from a fan perspective,
you want to win next year, you want to win
the Super Bowl. I'm telling you, in my opinion, their
best chance to win the Super Bowl next year is
through this method. And people are probably going off the
(13:10):
road hearing that. But for everything that we just talked
about and explained, adding the complexity does not give them
a better chance of winning the super Bowl next year.
In the fallout from that not happening is obviously significant
in what is turning into the ultimate pressure cooker season
next year.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
You know who's not going off the road, Cam Taylor
Britt because he apparently already did that that spending the
week in jail. It is seventeen minutes after three o'clock.
Read Paul's work the Athletic dot Com. Catch the latest
episode of the Growler podcast as well.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
He's here till four.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
We're here till six on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati sports station.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
It is twenty two minutes after three o'clock.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Cincinnati's most popular sports writer, Paul Danner Junior, is here
from the Athletic I tweeted out the link a few
minutes ago. If you don't know what we're talking about,
it it's a piece. Well take it from a Clifford
w Here who writes, gosh, mister, you sure right pretty?
Speaker 1 (14:13):
I like that one a compliment.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
So the word complex is used a lot, right, like,
let's not make the off season more complex than needed
because on surface level, on a surface level, what they
have to do is really easy. Fix the defense. Now,
that sounds easy as we saw last offseason. Eh, you know,
don't put it past them to screw it up. I
(14:36):
guess one of the things I wonder, and one of
the things that I think a lot of people wonder,
is how will they make it more complex than they
need to be? Because that feels like it's the Cincinnati
Bengals mo to make things more difficult than they need
to be. And you talked about Chasin Higgins and the
soap opera that both of those contract issues became the
(14:57):
Shamar Stewart thing this offseason, Trey hendrickson any number of things,
and we talked on the Growler today. For me, the
litmus test is Dalton Reisner, Like you got a guy
who plays a position you've had a hard time filling.
He's pretty good. He wants to be here. Just get
it done, don't don't add another wrench to the off season.
(15:18):
And so I guess what I wonder, maybe not so
much with that situation in particular, I wonder what things
are they going to do this offseason to get in
their own way, to get in the way of doing
what should be Again, not easy, but it's easy. It's
easy to understand what they have to do to fix
the team, whether or not they do it. What do
(15:40):
they do to complex to make as I'm doing right now?
What do they do to make the simple more complex
that it needs to be?
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Well?
Speaker 3 (15:46):
It usually comes back to negotiations gone wrong in communication, right,
That's where a lot of this typically stems from.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
We've heard that word a lot from players.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
So I look to the two things that you would
think are on their plate DJ Turner, Dax phill Right,
extensions that would need to be done that they would
like to get done. You'd love to have that, Probably
something you do before the year starts to set. Theoretically
that we've talked about this, don't let this play out.
Don't let these guys see free agency get ahead of it,
(16:19):
if you can get it, get in there now, if
you could, or will it go by what we've seen
happen a lot of times here where it gets dragged
out into training camp. Next thing, you know, we're referencing
how Holden's and hat Watch and DJ Turner is offended
by the you know, a low ball offer, doesn't feel
(16:41):
like they value them, and we're back down the Jesse Bates,
the t Higgins, the all of these roads that we've
been down every single off season. It feels like right
like so it's an ability to get those things stand
up because also, you know, you're gonna think they're gonna
want to have money set aside for that. That would
take away from maybe spending more on free agency, and
(17:05):
maybe there would be an unwillingness to do things with
say like Joe Burrow's contract to what we don't want
to do for money or make things make some of
the contracts they do have work to have more money
in free agency or void years that they've usually reluctant
to use even though they have. Sporadically, things like that
(17:27):
can get in the way. Things like that can make
it harder, and you just want you want the quiet
training camp, Yes, and they just haven't had enough of those.
And I guess they had as close to one as
they can this year and saw what happened. But you
still had so much of a very distracting off season,
with Trey being the most notable aspect of that. Trying
(17:48):
to have everybody happy on board. Some of the positivity
that you guys heard Zach Taylor talk about in these
exit meetings that he had carry over, well, you can
lose that in contentious negotiations with guys that are viewed
as what the core they want to go forward with
on this defense, the ones they actually like that are
(18:09):
worth investing it. I wonder about that. I don't know
where that's gonna go. We'll see, but that's where I
would start.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Can't wait to see what they do to make my
job easier in May. So like for what we do.
The slow times are February, right, you're kind of post football,
pre baseball, and then you kind of get the newness
of the baseball season behind you in the draft and
you get to May in June. I had no such
issues the last couple of years. Coming up with things
(18:43):
to discuss has been very easy because the Bengals have
always given put you know, stuff on a platter for me.
The objective should be, let's make mo work this year.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Let's make him.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Sit down some days during the off season and stare
to the heavens and go, huh, what do we talk
about as it relates to the Bengals that And now
the Reds could have something to do with that, obviously
if they're good this year.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
But still, let's make Moe's job hard.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
The last few years, Duke Tobin, this front office, this
ownership group, and a number of players have made the
job very easy because they create these distractions. They create
these soap operas. They create these series of circumstances that
feel like they could get in the way of a nice,
quiet offseason, in particular one this year where it's it's
(19:29):
paramount to use Joe Burrow's word, that they put themselves
in a position to win big well.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
And you know, the other thing would be, what does
that free agency week feel like? You know, I mean,
is it quiet again? Is there a we believe in
our guys? And there's a few small additions that don't
exactly change the nature of linebacker or safety or the
defensive line or whatever or and that has everybody wondering
(19:58):
what the heck's going on? Are they just really running
this back. I don't necessarily think that will be the case,
but there is going to be. You said it, Joe
Burrow said it. It's of paramount importance that that thing
feels impactful in some kind of way, whether whatever that is.
I mean, it doesn't have to be in signing free agents.
It can be in doing other things, but like, it
(20:19):
has to feel a real effort to bring quality level
of play up a level at safety, at linebacker, on
the defensive line, all over the place. And if you
don't do that and you just say, well, we saw progress,
then you run into trouble because now the rest of
(20:41):
the building, those players are like, we're really doing this,
you know, And you don't want that, like try to
keep everybody on board and believe in and having confidence
in the movies that you made and excited. You want
that excitement as the team enters camp in the season
and all those things.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Well, excitement is not exactly what I read in the
comment for Matt Kay, who writes spoken like a guy
who wants to be greeted warmly and have a nice
front row seat at Friday's press conference. Duke Tobin's gonna
talk on Friday. Yeah, we're gonna talk about that next.
Look forward to it on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. Traffic from the UC Health
Traffic Center.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
U S Health's Weight Loss Center offers surgical and medical
obesity care and expertise. Call five one three nine three
nine two two sixty three. That's nine three nine two
two sixty three. A new accident in northbound on Cole Raine.
That's over at High Forest Lane northbound Hamilton's still got
that crash approaching John Gray Road on southbound seventy five.
(21:46):
Traffic is slow between Zer Charles Drive and Fort Washington.
Wait a two minute delay. I'm at ezelic with traffic.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
This report is service of Kelsey Chevrolet, Home of Lifetime
powertrain protection and gart credit approval from their family to
yours for life kelseyshow dot com. Jamar Chase has been
named the Bengals twenty twenty five MVP by the Cincinnati
Chapter of the Pro Football Writers of America.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Congratulations to Jamar.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Cam Taylor Britt is in jail for five days because
of he pled guilty to reckless driving and driving with
a restricted license in Hamilton County Municipal Court. He was
immediately sentenced. He was given two sets of tickets in
twenty twenty five. First came in June when Cincinnati police
said he was driving a twenty twenty two Dodge Charger
(22:35):
recklessly with five occupants in the car and four street
Second set of tickets came in September, police said he
was street racing on Joe Knucks Allway.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
He shouldn't do that. Cam Taylor Britt in jail for
five days. Have you ever Have you ever done street
racing beforema? No? No, never, never had an appeal to me.
Never quite understood street racing.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
If I was going to do street racing on Joe
knuxall Way between a whole slew of establishments and Great
American Ballpark is probably not where I would street race.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
No, No, I feel like there's some places in the
country maybe when you.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Decide a street race and you go, okay, we need
a place. Where do you want to go? Let's go
over there by the Holy Grail, Like that's what are
we doing sitting in jails?
Speaker 1 (23:21):
What we're doing?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
College basketball? I don't know if they'll show this game
in jail. It's UC West Virginia. Game tips off at
seven o'clock on seven hundred WLW. Miami tries to stay
undefeated as the RedHawks host Western Michigan. Dayton takes on
George Washington Hockey Tonight. The Blue Jackets skate at San Jose.
Paul Danner Junior from the Athletic and the Growlar podcast
(23:43):
is here. Duke Tobin's going to talk on Friday. This
is unprecedented as far as I'm concerned. I can't recall
a situation like this where the season has ended and
without him sitting up there with a coach that has
been hired.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
He has answered questions from you guys.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Do you think this is Duke raising his hand going okay,
here I am or you do do you think he
is being pushed to the podium by the people that
he works for.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I think it's more push than than stepping up. But
I think there's a recognition that it was necessary. I think,
you know, this time last year, we were very vocal
and critical over the fact that they didn't do it.
This time last year, I think that's kind of where
(24:31):
this started. It gained steam during the year when it
was like people want to hear from him over what's
gone on.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And let's be clear about this. It's not like you
guys haven't asked for him.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
No, this has been going on.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
But I think it's been the it's the timing, and
it's because it's not like he also hasn't talked. I
think there's maybe some misconception out there that like Duke
doesn't know, Like it's just about the timing of it. Normally,
this period of discussion happens in Mobile, Alabama at the
Senior Bow when you're three or four weeks removed and
you know you're not in all the media is here, right,
(25:05):
there's only so many people being stream live, right, there's
none of that stuff going on. It's it's it's much
more out of sight. You're outside of out of mind.
You're kind of a dead period in the schedule, and
it's easy in Mobile to you're you're flipping forward, you're
looking forward. You're not having to answer for what happened.
And when you don't talk since before you know, a
(25:27):
mock turtles suit before camp starts, well there's never a
chance to answer for the questions that play that the
where the answers played out over the course of the season,
it felt there was that never existed, and that's kind
of what we've been wanting. And so I I do
I commend the Bengals for doing it, though I know
it's late and it feels like it should have been
happened there, maybe it should be more whatever, But I
(25:49):
do commend them for offering this transparency to their fans
through us or whatever. But like I I, that's what
it's a It's not about us, right, It's about people
want these answers from And we have to ask Zach Taylor,
who can't answer that, right. And so if the timing
of this is what this is about, But yeah, I
think it's the recognition of the need for transparency and
(26:13):
a little bit of accountability from him.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Do you think this launches us into a new era
of transparency and accountability where Duke Tobin speaks more frequently.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Not necessarily. I think this is a one of them
test balloons. Maybe I don't know see how it goes.
This is not a this isn't a precedent, This isn't
like every year now this is going to happen. I
don't think that's the case. But I would agree that's
certainly been my contention for a while. I think it's helpful.
(26:46):
I only think it's fair if Joe Burrow has to
answer the questions, if Jamar Chase has to get up
to answer the questions, Zach Taylorzach Taylor has to get
up there and answer the questions, and oftentimes they are
answering questions that should be directed towards the person putting
the roster together, then yeah, I think that that should
at least happen once in in that particular timeframe. So yeah,
(27:10):
I think that's fair. I don't I don't know what
will happen, and I don't know anybody knows for sure
what will happen in terms of precedent.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
I just know that they're doing it now.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I appreciate the fact that he's doing it, whether it's
him raising his hand and saying I'll do it or
them telling him he has to.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
I don't know that he can say anything on Friday
to make me or any other fan feel any better.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, I don't know that.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yeah, I don't know that there's some thing that he's
gonna say that's just gonna make it click for everybody, Like, yeah, yeah,
you know what I mean. I just think people just
it's the same reason that I've said said that this
is necessary. People just want to understand the perspective. Yeah
(27:52):
they want to be mad too, but that's fine. But
I just think it's it's it doesn't help anybody when
I think people don't feel like they under nderstand your
view of what went wrong, and they do what they
assume ineptitude and that's not the case. Like, I know
that that's painted that way, but I just think there's
an assumption of that when you're not able to offer
(28:12):
the transparency and an explanation that people want to hear
from your point of view.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Well, in your piece, you use the term trial balloon
your lead balloon piece, because that's what it's gone over
with the athletic. You wrote about new opportunities to learn
about miscommunications, right, and look, every season provides opportunities to learn.
You learn about your team, you learn about your coat,
you learn about the process, learn about the league, learn
about your opponents. I guess the two things I'm interested
(28:41):
in and I don't necessarily need a show. I don't
need an apology I don't need fireworks. I do think
the perspective of Duke, given his position, is interesting, and
so given that this went so poorly, I would want
to know your perspective why did this go poorly? I
(29:03):
don't know that he could say anything that makes me
go okay, great, great, okay, Well that wasn't so bad,
but all right, like you, you were in charge of
this roster. This roster underperformed, and one part of the
roster that underperformed, I think we thought coming into the
season was likely not going to be all that good.
So give me your perspective on why this went sideways.
And then the other one would be what did you learn,
(29:25):
whether it be about the team, the coach, your relationship
with Zach, how you have to communicate, how you have
to be on the same page with all of the coaches?
What did this season? What lessons did this season provide you?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Yeah, it's a question that I think poorly asked yesterday,
trying to talk about how can the continuity that you
guys have had be different?
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Now?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah, like what are those lessons? And it's the main
question we all have. How do you do things differently
with the same people?
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Right?
Speaker 3 (29:54):
How can those lessons and how can the continuity that
you have now be a weapon to where maybe it
hasn't been enough in the past. And I think Zach's
answer was that you know, they have more continuity now.
That meant that's when he started talking about the year
two of out Golden and the pieces that are in
place and just bringing everybody back and they haven't necessarily
(30:15):
had this much continuity before and that can lend itself
to more success and clarity. But yeah, I would want
to know. It's fine to hear that from one set.
I want to know what the other side feels about
that too, about how the same people can work better
together going forward and why that is you know, a
solution to believe in and whatever the answer there the
(30:35):
answer is. But yeah, I think that's what everybody wants
to know, is how do you make how do you
make this thing produce different results with the same people.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
A couple of other things.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
In the coming weeks, You're going to do the list
of pending free agents, and you always assign a percentage.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Yes, in the process of writing there right now.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
As to the odds, you know that each guy is
going to sign, So I look forward to that what
of all of the and I'll make it about pending
free agents, but also players from the twenty three class
that have a year left on their deal or a
guy like Dax Hill as well. Which player represents the
most difficult decision?
Speaker 3 (31:16):
I think BJ Hill is an interesting one. They could
move on from BJ and they have to take on
like seven and change and dead money and save almost
five in the cap, which is, you know, not a
lot of money in the big picture of it, but
when you're trying to figure out how to reorganize the
(31:38):
defense and how much do you want to kind of
run it back and how much do you want to
take a chance on new players and that do different things.
BJ is was a really interesting guy, and that you know,
he was a captain, which we know doesn't really mean
anything on defense. We particularly learned that like, but he
was a captain and he was playing all year. He
played hurt. They were using him in a weird way
(32:01):
in that he wasn't really used as a pass rusher.
He was using an early down run stopper, which I
don't know how much that fits who he is. I
think there's still value in him as a player, but
can you get better for that money that you would save. Also,
I don't think there's I think there's some internal belief
in Chris Jenkins, but there's big time question mark around
(32:23):
whether he'll ever be a guy yeah right now. Like
I quite famously felt better about Miles Murphy than I
last year than I than I do about Chris Jenkins
right now.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
I just I don't You.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Got to see a lot, I think from him to
feel like he's going to get there, and so you
need an insurance on that under the assumption you're also
bringing in more players of his position.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
So how they view that if they want to.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Totally get out of that game and change, I think
is going to be maybe a little bit indicative of
what direction the offseason goes. He has a two million
dollar roster bonus in the fifth day of the league
year that will kind of can maybe give us a
clue on what their decision has been rather than waiting
it out until camp or whatever. So I think that'll
(33:05):
be an interesting one. But I like BJ Hill in
the b.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
J Hill role.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
In the BJ Hill role, yes, so the reserve yea
or rotational defensive tackle can do different things. They've constantly
asked him to do too much since Larry Ogan Joey
left and so yeah, but but is that what is
that worth can they I just think that's gonna be
an interesting one to watch.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
I expected you to say, Joseph, I.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Just don't think he fits what he's gonna get what
they need like they like you have Shamar Stewart, you
have Miles Murphy, you have like two's and.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
He's a two.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
And he's gonna be paid like paid, like maybe more
like a one because he dictates in free agency and
he's had an injury history, He's got this risk thing.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Like I just I think someone will.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Pay Joseph, and he's played well enough to get it.
I just don't know that what that costs what they
need fits here, And so for that fact, I feel
like more than likely will go. It's just a matter
of that. It's not that he's a bad player, it's
(34:19):
just where they're at. I think they could get They
probably feel like they could get somebody better that does.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Fit them better for that amount of money.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
This is maybe a stupid question. It's not the first
one that I've asked. We're in the coaching cycle and
there's a lot of underwhelming names for what it's worth.
Lou An Romo is going to get a shot to
interview with the New York Giants for their vacancy and
the Titans. And the Titans, I'm looking at the ESPN
on Sunday morning during their pregame show, and they're throwing
(34:48):
up all these names of guys who could get a
chance to interview, and there's some retread to it. Man,
So the Bengals offense is good. Dan Pitcher's been here
for a while. Is it remotely surprise that somebody hasn't said,
let's give him an interview.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
I thought it was more than remotely surprising last year
and they went six and eleven, and I get it,
you know there, So it's hard. If you need, you
usually need to win. But you know, Brian Callahan, when
they had to play with the backup quarterback, got his job.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, I think it's I have not.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
I think it's there's there's a partial nature of the
just people just give Joe Burrow all the credit.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
I have not for the life of me. Do you think.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Callahan's failure in Nashville hurts Pitcher as a prospective head
coach while the team is Maybe I mean it doesn't help.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
It certainly doesn't help. I'd like to think of them
as different people. I don't think you can just lump
them together as you know, Burrow's kids. I don't think
that's fair. I don't think it's definitely not fair to Dan.
I have been surprised at how little he's gotten because
his background is different, Like Brian's background was quarterback guru,
(36:06):
so if you're taking a quarterback, you need to get
your quarterback situation fixed. He was the guy and it
didn't go well, get fired for cam mooreon ever really
even started playing and whatever. It's just a different story.
But pitches a much broader background in his background in analytics,
in scouting, is much more of an all encompassing head
(36:26):
coach type background than even Brian's was. And so that's
where I feel like I'm surprised more teams aren't intrigued
by that when he also brings the quarterback and the
offense stuff with him. So that's yeah, I don't will
see how that plays out, but yeah, you're right, I
mean in those names. That's the other, you know, less
discussed portion of the conversation that we had with my
(36:49):
piece is that this ain't a Ben Johnson Mike Rabel year.
I mean, it's different if that's sitting out there. If
Ben Johnson's sitting out here wants to come coach Joe
Burrow or Mike Rabel's like, let's do it, then then
maybe you're having different conversations. But that candidate doesn't exist.
I mean, the Bengals aren't the only ones that sat
(37:10):
okay Indy, I felt like I saw my guy zat
Kiefer for US wrote the Indie story on why they
decided to stand Pat with Shane Steichen and Chris Ballard
felt like he wrote the same story I did not
as pand.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
I haven't read the comments, but I can.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
It's fine, it's much more explanatory, but there's a new
ownership situation whatever.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
That's not the only one.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Lot of places stood Pat that maybe you would have
thought changes could have happened, and so that I think
that's also partially response to just the lack of big
time candidates that happened to be out there this year.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Is this the least popular piece you've ever written? Probably?
I mean, I don't know, man, I'd have to think
of something the top it. I knew it.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
I said, I told, I said to my editor yesterday, Dave,
I said, I said, we might break the angry comments
effort tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
I'm not trying to.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
I was like, I just feel like I want to
say this, and I know it's gonna probably be taken
the right way, the wrong way I mean and just
and obviously be poorly timed and the wrong topic.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
At this moment.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
I sat down this morning at ten minutes after nine o'clock.
I had taken my daughter to school, made a cup
of coffee, did a few things, and I sit down
at my desk in my office to you know, start
on the day. And the very first thing I see
is the tweet right from you sending out the piece.
And I wanted to just text you. We'd be like, oh,
thank you, thanks, one more thing, one more thing. Did
(38:41):
you guys want to laugh at Zach Taylor when he
was whining about the game being stopped on Sunday?
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Not really well, I was more I was actually more
interested in the logistics of the fact that it truly
wasn't discussed to just write, what are we gonna do
if you were, as an as an officiating crew going
to stop the game? How does that not when you
knew they did talk about Miles's record in the pre
(39:10):
ninety minute before the game meeting, right, and you didn't say,
we'll probably stop the game. So even mention that, like,
to me, I was much more interested in just the
logistics over than the fact that he was whining about it.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
So I was wondering about the logistics, but I was
wondering about it from Zach's perspective because we were doing
our show on Sunday morning, and I asked, kind of
just rhetorically, like if he breaks the record, is there
going to be a pause in the action? Like not,
we allowed a stage and let's bring him a car
and shower him with gifts like forty one ninety two,
But like, there's there have been records that have fallen,
(39:44):
and granted usually the player is performing at home, but
records that fall and they pause the game to acknowledge it.
If I'm wondering that at nine thirty in the morning,
shouldn't Zach Taylor be wondering that at nine thirty in
the morning enough to say to one of the officials, Hey, guys,
if he gets the sack, what happens. Yeah, So then
at least he can plan if our guy gets sacked
(40:05):
and it's Miles Garrett, here's what's gonna happen. So I
pin that on Zach. Yeah, and an example of his
lack of preparation for the moments.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Fair.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Yeah, I mean I I would assume that the I mean,
I don't know who the hell knows I would have.
I've never been in one of those meetings specifically. I
do know that they discussed Miles Garrett situation. But yeah,
if it wasn't said like are you going to stop
the game and we're in a two minute drill? M
m uh, yeah, that is probably on him as well.
But you would think the officials think that they're supposed
(40:35):
to be on top of that. I don't whining about it.
I mean I was so over the season at that point,
like whatever, does anybody care about what happened in this game?
Speaker 2 (40:43):
No.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Only it mattered in that game was that Joe Burrow
was healthy. That's what I put on social media.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
And he and they they had they coached and played
like it like they were in that game trying to
keep him healthy. And I don't have any problem with
that that personally, if not only that could have gone
wrong if I wrote it before the game even started.
The only thing that can go wrong today doesn't have
to do the winning, losing.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Any of it. None of it matters.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
The only thing that matters is does Joe Burrow walk
off this field healthy?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
I was watching though a local television station on Sunday night,
and one of the people on this local television station
referred to the loss as a heartbreaker.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Oh really, uh, it really was tough.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
You just want to be seven and ten, I guess
so you can't six and eleven. It just feels so
much worse. Thank you as always, Thank you? Are there
any more any more comments that you didn't get into
any more nicknames?
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Really? Just this is from Andy W. Really disappointing article, Paul.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
This is a take that is incredibly myopic and misguided,
which is ironic considering the content is about how enacting
change would be a short sighted decision.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
That wasn't as good as the other one that called
it hot garbage. Yeah, I'm sure they're a pilot up.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
I'm sure you know you have the thing there where
like you have to hit load comments, there's more. I
do that like three times and I'm like, all right,
I got stuff to do. I can't do this all day,
but there were There's a lot there.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I know there is. I know there is.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Repaul's piece at the Athletic dot com. Make sure you
leave a comment and listen to the Growlar podcast as well.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
We'll see you next week.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
It is a five away from four o'clock. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati sports station.
Mo Egger News
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