October 18, 2024 • 12 mins
Robert Weintraub writes a weekly Bengals column for Cincinnati Magazine. We discussed this week's column on the Bengals not needing style points, and Sunday's tilt against the Browns.
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Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
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Follow on X: @MoEgger
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Robert Wintrom joins us every Thursday. Right, So weekly Bengals
column for Cincinnati Magazine dot Com. Last week, amid the
one and four start, you were expressing optimism. You were
imploring Bengals fans to feel optimistic. They won, they covered,
go ahead and take a victory lap.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I feel like a gold medal winner and track and field.
I'm taking so many victory laps on this show. Really,
I really appreciate it. I mean, it didn't play out
exactly the way I thought it would in New York,
but I thought that they could win eventually. It might
not be pretty, but they get the job done and
that's all that really matters, especially when you're one and
four going into the game. And I think that still
(00:38):
applies this week. Whatever method it takes to stack a
couple of w's together will take it at You know,
aesthetics are not important right now. Victories are.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
No And obviously that was the theme to this week's
column at Cincinnati Magazine dot Com. I guess my big
takeaway from the Giants game, and I don't want to
get too wrapped up in the results or even how
they played, but they were healthy on defense, right Obviously,
they didn't have Dax Hill, but on the defensive line,
they had a full complement of guys, right, and so
(01:11):
you know, we know what Trey Hendrickson can do, and
he was really good in that game. But the idea
has been able has been to rotate all these defensive
linemen and sort of I don't know, come at teams
with quantity, even if not so much quality. And that's
probably not a very fair characterization. And so I guess
here's my question. If defensively this is what they are
(01:34):
and they can maintain some degree of health. They're remarkably
healthy right now, is the ceiling for this defense maybe
a little bit higher than we thought?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, and I think we've talked before even it isn't
quite as bad as it seems. You know that they've
played a couple of explosive offenses that unsurprisingly put up
some numbers on them when they weren't healthy. I think
they can do a lot better and they they'll start
to rise in the rankings as you see the season
go along. And you talked about the front line, I mean,
(02:06):
you know that's what you really want. I think we
saw in a lot of the games so far this
year is not only guys playing too many snaps, but
losing you know, sort of their mojo as the game
went along. And the two are directly related, right, I mean,
he had eight players on the defensive line play this game.
No one played over sixty percent of the snaps except
(02:27):
for bj Hill, who is having his revenge game so
he had to be in there. He had, you know,
the rookies Jenkins and McKinley Jackson combined for sixty plays
in the game that were basically missing for the first
few weeks. You know, It's just we don't really think
about it. When we think about teams defensively, it's either oh,
they have a star pass rusher or they just have
this great scheme that you know opponents can't crack. But
(02:51):
to me, so much, a defense is a combination of
really will you know, and and getting to the ball
with speed and knowing where you have to be, having
a lot of guys so that you can spell your
team throughout a game, especially when you want to play
high scoring games like the Bengals do. Offensively, you're gonna
need your defense to keep up and be fresh for
four quarters. And that's hard to do. And it was
(03:13):
very hard to do for the Bengals when they were,
you know, shorthanded so badly along that front line. And
of course, the bigger the player, the harder it is
for them to keep up over four quarters. They need
a lot of rests. So that's really a great formula.
You saw it in New York. You saw they had
four quarters of good play along that front line and
so long knock on wood as the guy stay healthy.
(03:33):
That should be the case going forward. And you know,
that was really the one thing I took away from
the game and really that they can build upon for
the future.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Joe Burrow took some hits. He got sacked four times,
He was pressured on forty percent of his dropbacks. He
didn't throw any picks, the pressures didn't turn into mistakes.
He obviously also had that remarkable forty seven yard touchdown
run on third and eighteen. But did the Giants exploding
with a really good defensive front. But the Giants exploit
(04:03):
anything that maybe Cleveland on Sunday or other teams moving
forward can take advantage of.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, I guess we have to start calling him Lamar
Burrow from now on. After that run, I was talking
about track star. That was impressive. Well, listen, I mean,
I think in general terms, a great front four and
a great pass rush is going to cause your team problems.
It doesn't really matter how good you are offensively. And
you know, we've seen that over the years that the
(04:31):
Bengals have struggled to block really good pass rushes. They've
struggled to block average pass rushes. And I think right
now the difference is they're good against average pass rushes,
but teams that can throw a couple of all pro
level defensive guys on the front four against them are
going to give them problems. And of course that leads
right into Miles Garrett, who has always given them a
(04:51):
lot of problems. But the key to me, I thought
was that, you know, despite the fact that they got
a lot of pressure on Joe and it wasn't the
offensive for four ormans they were looking to have obviously,
you know, it didn't destroy the game for him. They
played from the lead thanks to Burrows scramble. You know,
a lot of that was complimentary football and the fact
the defense played well, but they were always sort of
(05:13):
in control and made some plays when they needed to.
They had a few, certainly dead areas and dead periods
of play there. But that's what they really need to
do against Cleveland. I feel like it's just not let
Garrett destroy the game and those key moments when he
always seems to rise to the occasion when he plays
the Bengals and get that sack or strip sack or
(05:33):
chase down tackle, whatever it is. You know, don't let
those guys do that. And they have a lot of
good defensive players other than Garrett, and you know, pretty
solid pass rush. But you know, their defense has fallen
off a little bit this year in large part because
their offense has been so dire, and you know, you
have to think at a certain point they are they're
looking to crack there. You know. I mean, it's again
(05:55):
the dreaded cliche complimentary football, but it's true. Ones side
of the ball is not, you know, holding up, it's
into the bargain. It's very easy for the other side
to sort of make those dreaded business decisions and decide
not to play quite as hard as they've played in
the past. So hopefully the Bengals can get on top.
Gamescript has always meant so much in these games between
(06:15):
the Browns and the Bengals, and you know, when they're
not down fourteen nothing immediately, the Bengals look a lot
different than they do in games when you know they're
they're able to match offensive firepower in previous incarnations with
the Browns, and of course this year's Browns are terrible offensively,
So you know, all they have to do is get
up by ten points I feel like, and they'll be
in great shape.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah. No, I'm with you there, Robert Wintrop, Cincinnati Magazine
dot com. And you know, obviously the Browns. The term
dumpster fire is often overused. It feels like it applies
to what's happening in Cleveland. Deshaun Watson has been historically terrible.
They do get Nick Chubb back for this game, and
you mentioned Miles Garrett. He's a tough matchup for anybody.
(06:55):
It's been said in recent years, and it was said,
you know, I think a lot after that first game
of this season last year where Joe wasn't quite one
hundred percent and the Browns blew them out that well,
Cleveland's just a bad matchup for Cincinnati. Is that going
to apply on Sunday?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Well, I mean you mentioned Chubb. I mean he's a
big part of the reason that they've been in that
matchup for Cincinnati, and you know, Chubb and Garrett, it
was really those two guys in the main who were
just having their way in previous incarnations of this rivalry.
But you know, other than the fact that the Browns
probably looked at themselves and feel confident about, oh, we're terrible,
(07:30):
but at least we get to play Cincinnati because they've
had success in recent years against the Bengals, much as
the Bengals had a decade plus of success against Cleveland.
Let's not forget for many years, even when the Bengals
weren't that good, they could always circle two easy ws
against the Browns. So you know, right now, it's really,
like I said a moment ago, if they can corral Garrett,
(07:51):
and you don't really know what Schubb's going to bring back.
But the Browns offensive line, the vaunted offensive line, is
not nearly the same as it's been in the years past.
Losing Bill Callahan, the offensive line coach, part of it.
Injuries have devastated their line. They just aren't the same
unit at all. And expecting Chubb to immediately come back
from a devastating knee injury and run for one hundred
(08:12):
and fifty yards might not be you know, something they
can bank on. So you know, the bad matchup bowls
down to those two guys in a lot of ways.
And to me, you know this, you know, with Chubb
being where he is and the line being where that
is for Cleveland, the Bengals are really poised to tilt
that part of the matchup. Still have to block Garrett,
(08:34):
still have to do the things that they want to
do on their terms, and you know, going into the
game not being in a defensive crouch, so to speak,
on offense and you know, putting their entire you know,
it's a different kind of Bengals offensive scheme. We've talked
about it a lot this year. They've come out and
been a lot more physical, a lot more multiple, using
all those tight ends. That's something that Cleveland hasn't really
(08:55):
experienced when they play Cincinnati, and you know, there's a
good time to unleash some different looks on them and
change the dynamic really overall. So you know, you would
assume that they would come out and be play with
the desperation that we think they need to have, and
if they do that, they shouldn't worry about matchup problems,
particularly except left tackle against right end Garrett against Orlando Craft.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
All right, one more Robert Wintrop, Cincinnatimagazine dot com. Go
read this weekly Bengals column. It is up as we speak.
The NFL has changed in recent years where when the
trade deadline gets closer, we start to talk about it
like we talked about the baseball trade deadline right where
we speculate which teams can add, which teams might be
in quote cell mode, and we do that weeks before
(09:44):
the deadline gets here. We've seen teams make trades this week.
I am going to assume that on deadline day the
Bengals are not going to be in quote cell mode.
So assuming they're looking to get better, I know you're
going to have folks who say, look, this is something
they just do not do.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
But let's pretend they're in the mark.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Can at least who should they target?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Boy? I mean the easy answer, and yes, I agree
with you by the way that you know, the lion's
share of probability is that they won't do anything. Just
history points in that direction. But let's say that they
are and you know the guys who the big names
that people throw out there. Oh, let's go get a
Max Crosby or you know, some high priced defensive sack
(10:24):
artists which they obviously could use. That's pretty unrealistic as
it is now. It's Hassan Reddick in that mode where
he would only cost you, you know whatever the percentages
half of the season the contract, and it might be
worth it if you think for you know, just for
the stretch run, that you can make something go with
improving the fact that they're you know, thirtieth in the
(10:45):
league in sacks. I would certainly kick the tires on them.
Maybe somebody a little lesser, but another body up front,
you know, maybe even like Chase Young, or's somebody Emanuel Agba.
Miami teams are obviously out of it. Even maybe it's
a Darius my coming over from the Browns. We'll see
him and he can just change locker rooms. You know.
Another sacker pass rusher would be you know, something the
(11:07):
team could really use. Even as we say, they played
eight defensive linemen and the rotation was looking good, can't
count on those guys being healthy. And even with the eight,
they need some more pass rush and that's their achilles
heel right now. And you could argue maybe looking to
the secondary and get a cornerback. You know, is Marshawn
Lattimore available if you really want to swing for defenses,
(11:27):
Saints have fallen off a cliff. He'll be expensive. You know,
maybe at Jonathan Jones from the Patriots as a guy
I've seen thrown out there and they're going nowhere. He's
thirty one, but he knows what he's doing. Had a
good game against Sincy and the opener. You know, there's
not it's not impossible that they would think that they
would try and find a mid season replacement who can
help the team at a lower level. It's happened before,
(11:50):
but not usual, and it's definitely not usual that they'll
go after a high priced guy. So I wouldn't get
our hopes up too high dreaming about trade deadlines. Let's
just approve to play with the guys that we have
first and foremost and see if we're in a position
at the deadline to make a move like that. And
if they are, that's a sign that most of the
guys on the team are playing better and they probably
won't look to make a move as it is, So
(12:13):
you know, it's all it's all talk radio stuff at
the moment. But you know, that's what we're doing right now, right.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Makes it worth for it's it's in my wheelhouse for sure.
Robert Wintrop Sinsimagazine dot com. Awesome stuff. We'll chat next week, man,
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Look forward to it though. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Robert Wintrop read his Bengals column at Cincinnati Magazine dot com.
Robert Wintrom joins us every Thursday. Right, So weekly Bengals
column for Cincinnati Magazine dot Com. Last week, amid the
one and four start, you were expressing optimism. You were
imploring Bengals fans to feel optimistic. They won, they covered,
go ahead and take a victory lap.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I feel like a gold medal winner and track and field.
I'm taking so many victory laps on this show. Really,
I really appreciate it. I mean, it didn't play out
exactly the way I thought it would in New York,
but I thought that they could win eventually. It might
not be pretty, but they get the job done and
that's all that really matters, especially when you're one and
four going into the game. And I think that still
(00:38):
applies this week. Whatever method it takes to stack a
couple of w's together will take it at You know,
aesthetics are not important right now. Victories are.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
No And obviously that was the theme to this week's
column at Cincinnati Magazine dot Com. I guess my big
takeaway from the Giants game, and I don't want to
get too wrapped up in the results or even how
they played, but they were healthy on defense, right Obviously,
they didn't have Dax Hill, but on the defensive line,
they had a full complement of guys, right, and so
(01:11):
you know, we know what Trey Hendrickson can do, and
he was really good in that game. But the idea
has been able has been to rotate all these defensive
linemen and sort of I don't know, come at teams
with quantity, even if not so much quality. And that's
probably not a very fair characterization. And so I guess
here's my question. If defensively this is what they are
(01:34):
and they can maintain some degree of health. They're remarkably
healthy right now, is the ceiling for this defense maybe
a little bit higher than we thought?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, and I think we've talked before even it isn't
quite as bad as it seems. You know that they've
played a couple of explosive offenses that unsurprisingly put up
some numbers on them when they weren't healthy. I think
they can do a lot better and they they'll start
to rise in the rankings as you see the season
go along. And you talked about the front line, I mean,
(02:06):
you know that's what you really want. I think we
saw in a lot of the games so far this
year is not only guys playing too many snaps, but
losing you know, sort of their mojo as the game
went along. And the two are directly related, right, I mean,
he had eight players on the defensive line play this game.
No one played over sixty percent of the snaps except
(02:27):
for bj Hill, who is having his revenge game so
he had to be in there. He had, you know,
the rookies Jenkins and McKinley Jackson combined for sixty plays
in the game that were basically missing for the first
few weeks. You know, It's just we don't really think
about it. When we think about teams defensively, it's either oh,
they have a star pass rusher or they just have
this great scheme that you know opponents can't crack. But
(02:51):
to me, so much, a defense is a combination of
really will you know, and and getting to the ball
with speed and knowing where you have to be, having
a lot of guys so that you can spell your
team throughout a game, especially when you want to play
high scoring games like the Bengals do. Offensively, you're gonna
need your defense to keep up and be fresh for
four quarters. And that's hard to do. And it was
(03:13):
very hard to do for the Bengals when they were,
you know, shorthanded so badly along that front line. And
of course, the bigger the player, the harder it is
for them to keep up over four quarters. They need
a lot of rests. So that's really a great formula.
You saw it in New York. You saw they had
four quarters of good play along that front line and
so long knock on wood as the guy stay healthy.
(03:33):
That should be the case going forward. And you know,
that was really the one thing I took away from
the game and really that they can build upon for
the future.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Joe Burrow took some hits. He got sacked four times,
He was pressured on forty percent of his dropbacks. He
didn't throw any picks, the pressures didn't turn into mistakes.
He obviously also had that remarkable forty seven yard touchdown
run on third and eighteen. But did the Giants exploding
with a really good defensive front. But the Giants exploit
(04:03):
anything that maybe Cleveland on Sunday or other teams moving
forward can take advantage of.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, I guess we have to start calling him Lamar
Burrow from now on. After that run, I was talking
about track star. That was impressive. Well, listen, I mean,
I think in general terms, a great front four and
a great pass rush is going to cause your team problems.
It doesn't really matter how good you are offensively. And
you know, we've seen that over the years that the
(04:31):
Bengals have struggled to block really good pass rushes. They've
struggled to block average pass rushes. And I think right
now the difference is they're good against average pass rushes,
but teams that can throw a couple of all pro
level defensive guys on the front four against them are
going to give them problems. And of course that leads
right into Miles Garrett, who has always given them a
(04:51):
lot of problems. But the key to me, I thought
was that, you know, despite the fact that they got
a lot of pressure on Joe and it wasn't the
offensive for four ormans they were looking to have obviously,
you know, it didn't destroy the game for him. They
played from the lead thanks to Burrows scramble. You know,
a lot of that was complimentary football and the fact
the defense played well, but they were always sort of
(05:13):
in control and made some plays when they needed to.
They had a few, certainly dead areas and dead periods
of play there. But that's what they really need to
do against Cleveland. I feel like it's just not let
Garrett destroy the game and those key moments when he
always seems to rise to the occasion when he plays
the Bengals and get that sack or strip sack or
(05:33):
chase down tackle, whatever it is. You know, don't let
those guys do that. And they have a lot of
good defensive players other than Garrett, and you know, pretty
solid pass rush. But you know, their defense has fallen
off a little bit this year in large part because
their offense has been so dire, and you know, you
have to think at a certain point they are they're
looking to crack there. You know. I mean, it's again
(05:55):
the dreaded cliche complimentary football, but it's true. Ones side
of the ball is not, you know, holding up, it's
into the bargain. It's very easy for the other side
to sort of make those dreaded business decisions and decide
not to play quite as hard as they've played in
the past. So hopefully the Bengals can get on top.
Gamescript has always meant so much in these games between
(06:15):
the Browns and the Bengals, and you know, when they're
not down fourteen nothing immediately, the Bengals look a lot
different than they do in games when you know they're
they're able to match offensive firepower in previous incarnations with
the Browns, and of course this year's Browns are terrible offensively,
So you know, all they have to do is get
up by ten points I feel like, and they'll be
in great shape.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah. No, I'm with you there, Robert Wintrop, Cincinnati Magazine
dot com. And you know, obviously the Browns. The term
dumpster fire is often overused. It feels like it applies
to what's happening in Cleveland. Deshaun Watson has been historically terrible.
They do get Nick Chubb back for this game, and
you mentioned Miles Garrett. He's a tough matchup for anybody.
(06:55):
It's been said in recent years, and it was said,
you know, I think a lot after that first game
of this season last year where Joe wasn't quite one
hundred percent and the Browns blew them out that well,
Cleveland's just a bad matchup for Cincinnati. Is that going
to apply on Sunday?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Well, I mean you mentioned Chubb. I mean he's a
big part of the reason that they've been in that
matchup for Cincinnati, and you know, Chubb and Garrett, it
was really those two guys in the main who were
just having their way in previous incarnations of this rivalry.
But you know, other than the fact that the Browns
probably looked at themselves and feel confident about, oh, we're terrible,
(07:30):
but at least we get to play Cincinnati because they've
had success in recent years against the Bengals, much as
the Bengals had a decade plus of success against Cleveland.
Let's not forget for many years, even when the Bengals
weren't that good, they could always circle two easy ws
against the Browns. So you know, right now, it's really,
like I said a moment ago, if they can corral Garrett,
(07:51):
and you don't really know what Schubb's going to bring back.
But the Browns offensive line, the vaunted offensive line, is
not nearly the same as it's been in the years past.
Losing Bill Callahan, the offensive line coach, part of it.
Injuries have devastated their line. They just aren't the same
unit at all. And expecting Chubb to immediately come back
from a devastating knee injury and run for one hundred
(08:12):
and fifty yards might not be you know, something they
can bank on. So you know, the bad matchup bowls
down to those two guys in a lot of ways.
And to me, you know this, you know, with Chubb
being where he is and the line being where that
is for Cleveland, the Bengals are really poised to tilt
that part of the matchup. Still have to block Garrett,
(08:34):
still have to do the things that they want to
do on their terms, and you know, going into the
game not being in a defensive crouch, so to speak,
on offense and you know, putting their entire you know,
it's a different kind of Bengals offensive scheme. We've talked
about it a lot this year. They've come out and
been a lot more physical, a lot more multiple, using
all those tight ends. That's something that Cleveland hasn't really
(08:55):
experienced when they play Cincinnati, and you know, there's a
good time to unleash some different looks on them and
change the dynamic really overall. So you know, you would
assume that they would come out and be play with
the desperation that we think they need to have, and
if they do that, they shouldn't worry about matchup problems,
particularly except left tackle against right end Garrett against Orlando Craft.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
All right, one more Robert Wintrop, Cincinnatimagazine dot com. Go
read this weekly Bengals column. It is up as we speak.
The NFL has changed in recent years where when the
trade deadline gets closer, we start to talk about it
like we talked about the baseball trade deadline right where
we speculate which teams can add, which teams might be
in quote cell mode, and we do that weeks before
(09:44):
the deadline gets here. We've seen teams make trades this week.
I am going to assume that on deadline day the
Bengals are not going to be in quote cell mode.
So assuming they're looking to get better, I know you're
going to have folks who say, look, this is something
they just do not do.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
But let's pretend they're in the mark.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Can at least who should they target?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Boy? I mean the easy answer, and yes, I agree
with you by the way that you know, the lion's
share of probability is that they won't do anything. Just
history points in that direction. But let's say that they
are and you know the guys who the big names
that people throw out there. Oh, let's go get a
Max Crosby or you know, some high priced defensive sack
(10:24):
artists which they obviously could use. That's pretty unrealistic as
it is now. It's Hassan Reddick in that mode where
he would only cost you, you know whatever the percentages
half of the season the contract, and it might be
worth it if you think for you know, just for
the stretch run, that you can make something go with
improving the fact that they're you know, thirtieth in the
(10:45):
league in sacks. I would certainly kick the tires on them.
Maybe somebody a little lesser, but another body up front,
you know, maybe even like Chase Young, or's somebody Emanuel Agba.
Miami teams are obviously out of it. Even maybe it's
a Darius my coming over from the Browns. We'll see
him and he can just change locker rooms. You know.
Another sacker pass rusher would be you know, something the
(11:07):
team could really use. Even as we say, they played
eight defensive linemen and the rotation was looking good, can't
count on those guys being healthy. And even with the eight,
they need some more pass rush and that's their achilles
heel right now. And you could argue maybe looking to
the secondary and get a cornerback. You know, is Marshawn
Lattimore available if you really want to swing for defenses,
(11:27):
Saints have fallen off a cliff. He'll be expensive. You know,
maybe at Jonathan Jones from the Patriots as a guy
I've seen thrown out there and they're going nowhere. He's
thirty one, but he knows what he's doing. Had a
good game against Sincy and the opener. You know, there's
not it's not impossible that they would think that they
would try and find a mid season replacement who can
help the team at a lower level. It's happened before,
(11:50):
but not usual, and it's definitely not usual that they'll
go after a high priced guy. So I wouldn't get
our hopes up too high dreaming about trade deadlines. Let's
just approve to play with the guys that we have
first and foremost and see if we're in a position
at the deadline to make a move like that. And
if they are, that's a sign that most of the
guys on the team are playing better and they probably
won't look to make a move as it is, So
(12:13):
you know, it's all it's all talk radio stuff at
the moment. But you know, that's what we're doing right now, right.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Makes it worth for it's it's in my wheelhouse for sure.
Robert Wintrop Sinsimagazine dot com. Awesome stuff. We'll chat next week, man,
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Look forward to it though. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Robert Wintrop read his Bengals column at Cincinnati Magazine dot com.
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