October 28, 2025 • 41 mins
Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us to discuss the Bengals after what many are calling the worst loss of the Zac Taylor era.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:08):
Well it's closed versus pause. When the Bengals and Bears
battle in the jungle, one thing I know for sure,
somebody's getting mauled. Will the Orange and Black pounce on
the wind or will the team from the Windy City
blow away? Our beloved Bengals coverage begins Sunday at nine am.
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(00:32):
or ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals, the.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Official home, not an unofficial home. What's up, Good afternoon, Mollegger.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank you for listening. We
are broadcasting from Oakley Greens. It's Tuesday, so we're at
Oakley Greens and there's a ton happening at Oakley Greens.
By the way, they've got trigger treating tomorrow and it's
(01:00):
gonna be indoors because I guess the weather is gonna
be DICESO. Uh, don't don't look at the forecast and
go I no, no, no. There'll be trigger treating indoors
from five to eight tomorrow while supplies last. If you're
thinking ahead of the weekend college and pro football. You
can watch the Bengals game on Sunday, and then you
can stick around to watch FC Cincinnati, which won last
(01:22):
night Game two against Columbus, and the college basketball season
starts next week. Obviously, you can watch your favorite team here.
This place is terrific, mini golf, dog friendly, family friendly,
two different bars, extraordinary, extraordinarily attentive staff. We love the
folks here at Oakley Greens. Speaking of FC Cincinnati, our
(01:44):
guy Taylor Twelman from MLS Season Pass on Apple TV
is gonna join us in an hour to talk about
last night's one nothing FC Cincinnati went over Columbus, looking
ahead the game two on Sunday that coming.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Up at four oh five.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Full show preview is available on Twitter at moegg thanks
to share Facts credit Union. Our friend Paul Danner Junior
is here though, who liked me. Stayed up to watch
the eighteen inning baseball game Game three of the World Series,
and we both look like it.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, don't, don't, don't look or field great, but we're
but we're here to do it. Powering through right now,
I've got I did. I stopped and picked up the
extra coffee on the way. I needed the extra jolt.
I get it. I was feeling it, Yeah, I was
feeling but I'm ready now I'm good.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
At what point were you like me? Did you start
just rooting for the game to never end?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Oh? Absolutely, I would say, well, first of all, I
did it. This is the only reason it was possible.
I slept from like the eighth inning to like the thirteenth.
Oh okay, okay, right, and not even knowing that. When
you wake up and the World Series is that far in,
I'm like, okay, I'm in. I'll stick around to see
how this ends, right, And next thing you know, I'm like,
(02:49):
I guess, I guess I'm doing no sleep like that,
because then I'm investing, because then it gets good. I
gotta say. When I moved from laying there watching to
when they were maybe he was actually gonna get to
swing the bat for that one at bat, when they
weren't gonna intentionally walk them. I popped up and I
sat up on my couch. I was like, well, I
guess they got me. Yes, they got me. Off the
actual like, I'm not laying anymore. I'm here to actually
(03:12):
sit up on the edge of my seat, which I did.
But uh and that and when uh, you know, when
they're like pulling the game two starter who had the
complete game, putting him into the bullpen, I'm like, this
is I used to love when regular season games would
do this. Yes, late night reyes would happen and it'd
be like seventeen innings in San Diego and just it
(03:35):
would just be you and like twenty of your friends
who are still up on Twitter talking about the ridiculous
system when that happens in the regular season.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
My favorite part when the Reds would be in a
game like that, and we really don't have them anymore
because now dumb magic runner role is you could tell
when the announcers had postgame plans that were being interrupted
because they get cranky about it.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
They'd get salty when the game continued.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I I'm kind of an insomnia so I wrestle with
this all the time because I do have a hard
time falling asleep. Like once every two weeks I'll be
laying there at two thirty three o'clock and it's like,
all right, at what point am I just gonna say
screw it? At what point will it not matter if
I get any sleep? And that's kind of where I
was last night. So what I was rooting for was
(04:19):
for the game to still be going on when my
wife got up for work. I wanted her to come
down to the living room and see me sitting there
drinking a cup of coffee watching Game three of the
World Series.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Not to belabor this point, but usually my dog will
sit next to me on the couch whenever I stay
down there, Lady. He was until like at a certain point,
even my dog was like, I'm gonna turn in and
just went upstairs midway through, and I was like, man,
he I think he's got a pretty good point that
maybe maybe I should be considering going up.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Well, we're both feeling it a little bit today.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
We're good.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
I would probably.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Rather talk about the baseball game last night for the
next hour, but we do have issues to discuss as
they relate to the Bengals. By the way, guy just
walked in wearing a fire Zac Taylor T shirt.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
So that's that's where we are.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
It's where.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
You wrote about.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
The youth and inexperience on display with the Bengals defense,
and like I I want to use that as not
an excuse but an explanation.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
But I can't.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I can't, And as you pointed out Al Golden to
his gretit is not buying the Hey, we're going to
have to go through growing pains. I guess what I
am clinging to is this that at some point in
the short term, meaning this season, there could still be
a payoff from so many of these young guys accumulating experience.
(05:47):
Right now, I'm skeptical that that'll be the case. I'm
having to talk myself into it. I am as out
on Duke Tobin as I've ever been. The way they
lost that I certainly believe it's the worst loss of
the Zach Taylor era.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
But I'm trying.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
I'm trying to tell myself that if they could just
stay afloat, which is all we do in Cincinnati, just
root for teams to stay afloat, that you know what,
there'll be a payoff and in December we'll talk about see, Hey,
Demitrius Knight knows how to tackle because he learned by
not tackling anybody in October. And all these young guys
who weren't good in the middle of the season, well
now they're really good because the the experience is paying off.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
You're making a face.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I can't. I'm you don't have to, you don't have
to try. I don't. You know your your your skepticism
is right. I mean, this is the ultimate hope is
not a plan.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I mean I feel like the hope is that that
that these guys will look better as they just play more.
And and that's true. I mean, I don't want to.
I'm not trying to discount the future careers of Dimitrius
Knight and Barrett Carter and Schmar Stewart for that matter.
You know, three rookies that are essentially out there starting
(07:06):
to meters. It's like my age, but that's okay, it's
still a rookie. Yes, I hear you, But I'm not
here to discount that what they can eventually grow into.
It's one thing to have one guy that you're living through.
It's another thing to have two of them right next
to each other. It's another thing to then have a
third one where there's moments where they're just this triangle
(07:27):
of youth and bad happening and on plays that are
coming right at them. It's you know, and you're you're okay, Well,
then they've seen that now, so they won't make that
mistake and they see. But there's gonna be a season.
There's nobody will tell you, but you know it's gonna
happen quick like you're gonna it's gonna you're gonna snap
your fingers and all of a sudden, they're gonna be good. No,
(07:48):
everyone tells you this process is slow, it is gradual.
It takes time. It's not gonna happen overnight. Well, they're
gonna lose games in the meantime. Yeah, they're losing you
games right now. I mean, they lost you one on Sunday.
They're gonna continue to lose you games this year as
long as this is the plan. And it is the plan,
I mean, the the line yesterday of this is this
(08:10):
is where we're at, Like this is That's kind of
the thing that I can't get out in my head.
It isn't a mission like this is it. This is
what we're doing, right We're gonna let these guys go
out here and play, and we are going to understand
that it's not gonna be pretty, that these are who
they are right now, and we're hoping that they'll be
a little bit better next week and a little bit
(08:30):
better the week after that, and that by the end
of that that'll be something. But an admission of of
there's there's nothing changing, there's no other changes, there's no
there's not anything major that's gonna happen. I will I'll
give you this if you want some some some I
don't know if it's hope, but it's something to latch onto,
a kind of bit for you. I will say, I
do think what has been under discussed in this latest
(08:54):
downturn by this defense in the last month or whatever
it is, it very much coincides with the Trey Hendrickson injury. Okay,
he as their lone star, you know, was was able
to mask some of the other things that were going
on there. And it's right, and I think that there's
(09:17):
you know, separate conversations about things that have happened since
Trey's injury beyond just him not being out there. But
I think the fact they don't have other stars, the
cliff is so deep after him, clearly, between that and
Miles and Joseph Side and Shamar Stewart and the lack
of pressure is just so debilitating for the team. And
(09:37):
at the very least when Trey was out there, he
was soaking up at tension of an offensive coordinator. You
can see the difference I have in a story it's
going to be up tomorrow on the trade deadline, which
you can imagine where that starts with Trey Hendrickson not
being a part of anything. Is is the is the
point that the the on off field splits this year
(09:59):
are incredible when Trey is on the field versus when
he has not been on the field this year, they
truly do go from the historic, god awful defense that
I think everybody sort of saw on Sunday and for
portions of a lot of their recent life. But like
also they were when he's been on the field, it's
(10:20):
been okay ish. That counts a lot of early in
the season when quarterbacks are different. So again I'm telling you,
like I'm putting asterisks on this and understanding that there's
a bit of a reach it, but it's true. I mean,
they've never needed Trey more when he's the only guy,
him and DJ Turner at this point the only guys
out there. And so I think that whenever he can
(10:42):
get fully healthy, which I don't know that that's gonna
be this week, it would make a major difference in
it not feeling.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
So out of control like it did on some Did
any of his teammates see that dude for the Jets
cheap shot him?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
John Simpson, No, I maybe not. I don't know, although
we know there is a history of not reacting when
one of your major stars.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Get try say what you want about him, Like guy
comes up right behind him and just pushes him in
the back.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, and all the other dudes are like, yeah, well,
I don't know, I don't know, I do Here's I
don't know. I don't really I didn't have like a
major problem with that. I felt like that guy, the
offensive lineman was going up and sort of doing the
look for work thing, and Trey was doing some spinny stuff,
(11:31):
and I think he felt like Trey was gonna turn
back towards me ends up pitting him in the back.
It wasn't great. Doesn't look he'll probably get fine. Yeah,
but I didn't feel like it was like dirty. I
don't was the minority cheap Yeah, that was cheap. It
was unnecessary.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
And apparently his teammates all agree with you, because they
just kind of looked at him like he was like, guy,
get on the bus or something.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Man, it's so.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Not coming in to the defense of their captain.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
So Zach Taylor said, they're gonna he's gonna come up
with creative ways to address the tackling.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
What do you think those look like?
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I don't know. Maybe it's not only.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Allowed to watch a certain part of practice.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, we definitely won't be able to see whatever that
creative part that's.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Within your purview is not.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Maybe we're gonna get Maybe we're gonna get more. I
like the pre practice dummy work that you get there,
you get the dummy with the ball and then these
guys they come running up and they do this like
crazy maneuver to try to show how they're slapping the
ball out on the way down. Maybe they just extend
that to like a full hour of just diving on
the path, which I could get into. It looks fun.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Okay, is it gonna work?
Speaker 1 (12:40):
No? No, nothing they're gonna creatively do in practice is
gonna change anything that's gonna happen. Like, that's not they
You are either able to go out there and tackle.
So whatever you're gonna do when you're not really allowed
to do anything and you're not trying to hurt. Anybody
in practice is not gonna help you. Look like this
(13:00):
is who you look like, tackling like you either want
to go do it, you're able to do it, or
you're unable to do it. And they have too many
guys on the team who they knew weren't great at
doing it, and that has proven to be the case,
and turns out when you put a bunch of those
guys together, it's really bad.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Demitrious Knight tackles like he plays defense like he's standing
on a boat trying to walk from one end of
it to the other.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Wallet's in the middle of the ocean. That's how he
plays football.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Maybe he'd be maybe he'd be good on a boat.
Maybe that's maybe that's his future. Maybe boat football could
be the captain, could be the captain of the boat.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
That's what he looks like.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, the I think that has been He got a
how golden Dan Horde, as he often does, asked a
great question yesterday and it was windy, and know that
young players just aren't very good, right.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Like you know how Goldham asked this.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
No, I'm sorry, Dan Horne, I'm sorry if I said wow,
that's I apologize. No, no, if I say, maybe I misheard,
you know, I'm sorry. Dan asked Al goldon that in
our session with Al goldon yesterday, and the the answer
was he brought up Jermaine Pratt. He was like, you know,
a lot of people would have said after Jermaine Pratt's
(14:17):
rookie year that he would never become the guy that
he was for on the twenty one to twenty two
teams they had and the places and that it just
takes time, and you can you can see it. So
you don't want to, you know, you can't just quit
on guys because of the way that that maybe they
look unsure or what a hesitant is a word that
(14:38):
Zach Taylor used to say about some of these guys.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Ark Carter looks hesitant, like just seric Carter looks hesitant.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
He looks like a guy that just isn't totally sure
what he's doing out there. And so that is something
that theoretically should get washed away with time. So I
buy that. But you're right when you see him and
I think I think he's not there. I think Demetri
Snite looks hesitant as well. But you see that where
you like, you get into the hole and like, oh
am I supposed to go for this or like or
(15:05):
you could just be in your three like Jordan Battle
and just come around the edge and decide to do
some sort of hand dance instead of actually going so cool.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Jordan Battle looked like the Dodgers players when they hit
a double because they Battle looks like that's exactly what
it was.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
It was he's doing like this, like with the weird
dance on the way in, It's like, you know, between
that and and the angles taken with Jordan Battle, I
feel like.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
You know there was Derek Carter looks like you ever
been on a slippery floor where they have to sign
up that says slippery floor, but you can't see where
the wet spots are, so you're sort of trying. That's
what he plays, That's how he plays football. Yeah, I
spent all day Sunday.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I was gonna say, I was like, you clearly are like,
I'm gonna have a lot of time to fill where
I'm gonna have to talk about analogies to what these
players are looking like, and it is it's hard to uh,
it's hard to put into words at this point other
than the fact that you better get used to it.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Paul Danner Junior covering the Bengals and their defense The
Athletic dot com latest edition of the Growler podcast PD
and Jay, of which I made an appearance, and that
was productive.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
We solved a lot of the issues there.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
I actually thought it was great today. I really enjoyed
today's conversation.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
I enjoyed it. Yeah, I got to talk about being
on safety patrol. Yeah, so much more.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Catch that.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
As we say, where you get your podcasts, including on YouTube.
Paul's here till four, We are here till six. There
is a lot of ground to cover before Paul takes
off and takes a nap because he's sayed up too
late watching baseball on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
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Speaker 3 (17:11):
This report twenty five minutes after three o'clock. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty Molwagger broadcasting from Oakley Greens where you
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(17:32):
Athletic dot Com and the Growler podcast is with us.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
You guys get to find out maybe what happened in
the players only meeting with the defensive guys.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Nothing happened, Nothing ever happens in these meetings. It's it's
just we were talking about this in the podcast today
and I can't I keep going back to this, Like
what is the bigger waste of time? The ping pong
tables being taken out of the lock room or the
players only meeting like which which is more overhyped? You know?
(18:05):
Like this? Ah, this is Hey, did you see how
the Ravens played after the ping pong tables got out. Yeah,
just need to straighten up a little bit, get more serious.
This is gonna be a players. Players are gonna hold
accountability that guess what, the same players are gonna walk
out of that meeting that went into that meeting. And
that's the problem right now, Like the accountability. Okay, were
(18:27):
you not trying? We really to believe that no one
was trying, Like I just I don't think it's effort.
I don't think tellents it it's it's it's talent.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Duke Tobin is in charge of acquiring and accumulating the talent.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
And I said this to.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
You on the Growler, So I don't want to redo
the entire segment. This is as pissed as I've been
at him as a fan, right and I feel like,
for the first time ever, he is squarely in the
public's crosshairs.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Now, fans being upset with a coach does not necessarily
translate to their proverbial seat being hot. But you get
the sense with Duke that it's the ground is maybe
not as firm as it has been.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Is that the way I think that's I think I
think there's I think there's cracks in the foundation just
by the nature of the accumulation of time, the Burrow window,
and just how poorly the picks and the free agency
acquisitions and the lack of you know, those has been
(19:40):
And so I think that you're at a point now
where I don't ever feel like there's I wouldn't even
use the word like likely, not at all, Like it's
still very unlikely. They're just the nature of of who
Duke Tobin is, the family, the realct like everything about it,
it is so firmly entrenched. Him being taken out of
(20:07):
this role would be one of the most stunning things
that I've ever covered here, just because of who he
is and where they are. That said it, it feels
shakier than ever. And like you said, the fans have
him more in the crosshairs because that he's the one
that belongs in the cross hairs. There was a sort
of war wage right between Lou and Rumo and kind
(20:30):
of felt like Lumo and Duke Tobin like it was
it was it's the players, No, it's the coaching, right,
and so it felt like there was these two sides
and then if you were gonna come out of that
and one side looks clearly right, and it's the man
in Indianapolis. I think everyone looks around and says, how
is this still going on? Maybe it was all of
(20:50):
these players that have come in, Maybe it's philosophy, maybe
it's whatever it is like that does it inevitably right
now feels more like it has fallen on him than ever.
But you know, it's it's just such a patient place
and it's so different than anywhere else that it's just
it's really hard to foresee that. But yeah, I think
(21:14):
it feels like there's a little bit of those cracks
that maybe haven't even been thought of existing in recent years,
just because of you know, games like Sunday. Yeah, I
mean that that stuff, it makes an impact and the
accumulation of it now over three years of this defense
being terrible because of all of these mispicks and bad
(21:35):
free agent decisions. Directly, it's you can't avoid you can't
avoid that to a.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Certain point, Was that the worst loss of the last
seven and a half years or six and a half years,
Zam Taylor?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
I don't know. I mean, I think in the moment,
when you consider the big picture of this season, yeah,
but it's still October, so it could get worse. Definitely
get worse. But I mean, I just I just think
in terms of stakes, things are on the lineing you've
had late late in the season games that have been debilitating.
But to have a game literally play out to every
(22:09):
way that it's supposed to. You play with the lead,
You've got a team that's zero to seven down at home,
momentum from Flacco in your house, offenses cruising, and then
this thing that had sort of been like been able
to be shoved under the rug a little bit for
a minute while till Flacco came in and everything else
is like, oh, oh, that thing that you felt like
(22:29):
you had maybe quite just enough by winning all of
a sudden just comes out and eat you alive in
front of everybody, and then you get booed off of
a field that you score thirty eight on is just yeah.
I mean, in terms of optics of it in the moment,
it feels like that. I'm not in terms of big
picture impact and stakes, because they can go out and
(22:52):
win a bunch of games the rest of the way
out and overcome that. But yeah, in terms of in
the moment, that was that's that's up there. If not
number one, I.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Haven't ranked them, so I like, I haven't sat down.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Got a full week of time to fill.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Okay, maybe i'll do that this week.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Maybe we get there.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Yeah, I'll do that on the plane ride to Utah
and then tweet it or something on SA.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
You rank that, and I'll rank all your analogies of
what Bengals defensive players look like trying to tackle, and
then we'll compare notes.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
I've got a few more.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, I'm sure you do.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
It's twenty nine away from four o'clock. Where at Oakley
Green's Paul Danner Junior. Follow him on x at Paul
Danner Junior Sports Headlines More with Paul next on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 7 (23:37):
Here at since E three to sixty, there's no shortage
of things to talk about, whether it's the Bengals search
for a quarterback, the Bearcats search for supremacy, or the
Red search for offense. Listen to since E three to
sixty weekdays at noon on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
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Traffic from the UC Health to Traffics Center with a
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He spawnor Kelsey Chevrolet home of lifetime power train and protection.
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Kelseychev dot com. Bengals have made some moves Shaka Heyward
to the surprise of nobody goes on ir with that
busted fibula, Matt Lee goes on ir with a knee injury,
and defensive tackle Mike Pennell has been released. He played
in eight games for the Bengals this season and for
about not a twelve to fIF teen minutes when they
acquired him, he was going to be the big off
(25:02):
season acquisition.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
It didn't really.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Take No, it was a whole lot of like, wait,
he's looking Do you see how he played? He really
solidified the run defense? And did he no nothing, I mean,
did you did he?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Did he not show up at the players only meeting?
Speaker 1 (25:19):
What did he look like? What do you think he
looked like playing defensive tackle?
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Hmm, it's a good question.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
It's a kind of like an old man or rocking chair,
just kind of like.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Let me think about that.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yeah, the problem is I really can't remember watching him play.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
That's definitely a problem.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
Right, Yeah, nothing about his time in Cincinnati.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Stood out to me. No, No, he sure didn't.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Evan Pryor. It's not looking good for Saturday. Scott Saderfield
today said he's going to be listed as out in
all likelihood and the first.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Injury report of the week.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Bearcats on the road against Utah on Saturday night at
ten fifteen. Tonight, it's a game four the World Series,
Blue Jay's Dodgers, Bieber's Show, Hey Otani.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
They may play nine innings tonight, maybe more. Who knows.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
La up two to one after the Freddie Freeman walk
off in the bottom of the eighteenth inning last night.
FC Cincinnati up one to zero on Columbus. The Orange
and Blue are off today before returning to training tomorrow.
The game on Sunday at six forty five on Fox
Sports thirteen sixty. Roman Selatano. His multi save sequence against
(26:27):
Nashville earned him Save of the Year honors from Major
League Soccer. At Hockey Tonight, the Blue Jackets are on
the road against Buffalo Paul Danner Juniors. Here from The
Athletic and the Growler podcast. So like, we made fun
of the players only meeting, but I was talking about
this with Tony yesterday because Tony Pike played on a
winning team but where the offense was awesome and the
(26:50):
defense was atrocious. And one thing we've kind of talked
about this year is say what you want about Zach.
It has never really felt like, in some of the
darkest time that you've ever looked at him and said, boy,
the effort's not there, or that the locker room is
falling apart or things are starting to splinter. But if
that's ever gonna happen, chances are it's gonna be when
one part of the team is really good. And not
(27:12):
that the offense was perfect on Sunday, but when one
part of the team is really good and the other
is wasting its efforts. Should that be the sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
We worry about? Yeah, I mean you're I think you're
always worried about that in situations where it's so dramatically different,
like it has been over the last month. Yeah, But
I also you know what I thought, I mean, leave
it to the wise, the wise man at quarterback. I
thought his point after the game about look, you guys
(27:42):
need to just look to themselves, and what he finds
is just what you'll find is that the guys that
feel the worst about it, they care the most about it,
are the ones where they feel like they're letting everybody
else down. They put that on themselves. It's not as
much a matter as the guys that are playing well,
finger pointing of look at these clowns. It's really far
more about the ones that feel like they're letting their
(28:03):
teammates down. It's the worse than if you just focus
on yourself, do your job and remember, and he said
this before, I think when it's maybe his introductory to us,
it was like, don't worry about what anybody do your
job like, no one cares what you're doing, man, Like,
just you just do your thing, do do your job.
No one's worried about you. Everyone worried about themselves. When
you do that, those things tend to correct themselves a
(28:25):
little bit. So I think they have the right people
in terms of that in there. But you know, I mean,
it's only natural, sure, But.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I watched Jamar Chase on Sunday, and I thought he
gamely handled some questions that.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
I felt like everybody was poking.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
They were trying, Hey, you want to.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Take a shot of the defense. You want to take
a shot of the defense. You want to take a
shot at the defense, and he and he and he didn't,
And we talked about his maturity, and I do think
that he's come a really long way in that regard.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
He was better than I would have been.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, no, yeah, I know exactly exactly. I would not have.
I don't know how well I've been able to handle it.
But I think you could sense him being like, I'm
not going to do it, Okay, guys like, yeah, I'm pissed,
I hate losing and all of that stuff, but I'm
not going to sit here and point fingers in the defense.
Even though everybody knows that I could, I'm not going to.
(29:16):
And I think when you have that at the top.
It does go a long way to everybody just being like, look,
do your thing, go score forty time and try to
go win the game and understand that that's you know,
everybody's everybody's doing everything that they can, or at least
you hope that they are. Yeah, what what.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Would have happened if like Jamar is like, I want
to come to the Defensive Players Only meeting?
Speaker 4 (29:38):
He allowed? Sure, let him?
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I think he would be I don't know how many
you always like to do this game. Who's the least
offensive person, who's the lowest level offensive person that they
would allow into the Defensive Players Only meeting? Jamar would
get in because he's Jamar. He can goa t burrow
like Flacco. They they could come in there. What at
(30:01):
what point is it like is it like Yoshi Pok
poking his head in the door, like, hey guys, No,
I like, I don't know that guy's got.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Problems with his own No A fan, no a fan.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
That's the line. He's a veteran, yes, so he should
be allowed in to come say something.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
He would be like allowed to poke his head in,
poke his head in, but not attend.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
And they're like but hey, Tanner's got to stay outside,
right like they would let like you would think they
would like Keris, they would let Orlando Brown, right.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Those guys right, But but anybody else I think would
be told.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
No, I hate meetings.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
I have a job in radio.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Because I don't have to get dressed up and because
I don't have to go to meetings. When there are meetings,
I asked the same question every single time. Will there
be snacks? Will there be I've worked for people who
are like, all right, well we have to have a meeting. Yes,
we're gonna ask do you think they had snacks?
Speaker 1 (30:50):
No? Booze definitely not.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
Okay, I'm not going I feel like I feel.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Like maybe there was uh imprompt to Sunday night meeting
with Booze. Probably, I would imagine.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Now here's the one thing about the team offensively, they're
like a decent running team.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Now decent how about this? So we had we had
Justin Hill, running backs coach, on the Rewatch Show Monday,
and I went through just parsing out the last month.
And so in the month of October, the Bengals had
the number one rushing offense in the NFL in terms
(31:34):
of efficiency success right, and now they're all they do
is get explosives. Yeah, it's unbelievable. It's and it's p
Ryan too well. They've found a really nice mix. I
think Samaje, you know the nature of the way they
use him, their tendency with him of when he's out there,
he's going to be in pass pro standing next to
(31:56):
Flacco now and you just kind of the look pass
and especially the way they use the receivers on outside
the numbers and stuff. You can find those alleys up.
They have made a living off of these p RN
middle runs on second long which I know you love
second long runs, and they've they've found explosives out of them,
(32:19):
they've found efficient runs out of them. He's he's had
this kind of downhill power thing that helps those be
efficient to get your third and five or six, which
Flacco has been really good at. And so when you
have that, like, it's made for a nice one too.
I would not have thought before the season that you
would have had him carve out this much of a
role with Chase Brown had taken as much as strides
(32:43):
as he had, But I think he's helped Chase Brown
because Chase Brown looks fresh and explosive when he's out there.
He doesn't not that he would wear down, but he
certainly looks fresh and with with a lot of energy.
And they just kind of created a nice, a nice combo.
And that was my question for Justin Hill. I said,
if if I talk to you on the flight back
from Denver on Monday night football and said, guess what,
(33:06):
over the next month, you're going to have the number
one rushing offense in football by efficiency, what would you?
And He's just like, you know, they have had such
an uphill climb to get to that point. Yeah, I
think that there's you know that it's a kudos to
that group because that looked dead in the water. You
talk about historically awful. Yes, maybe that's something as we
try to spend this hour finding things to latch onto.
(33:29):
If you can do that with the run game, then
maybe you can do something with the defense going from
historically awful. But the problem is there's not one person
that can come in and really change the entire dynamic
of the defense like Joe Flacco did for the offense.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Also was seven minutes to go and you're gashing them
on the ground. The previous drive they were awesome on
the ground, and you're trying to kill some clock, salt
the game away. Could you call a running play?
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yeah, no doubt. I mean I think between that and
I don't you know, I know, I've seen the less drive,
second and ten run getting beat up a little bit.
I didn't have a problem with that. I mean the
timing before it. Yeah, I love the amount of time
that they let run off. But I didn't have a
problem because they had been getting explosives out of it,
(34:15):
and they were only a couple of first downs with
multiple timeouts left away from getting into field goal range.
I understand the hesitation of being like, you know, really
when it gets one yard, but they had had so
many productive runs like that in that situation, and you
had to feel like, Okay, you've got the defense. Maybe
thinking past as well, you could pop another one of those.
(34:36):
They had just popped them with Chase Brown. That didn't
bother me as much. Tony brought this up yesterday.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Fourth down. Your quarterback was just in the locker room.
The game and the season are hanging in the balance.
You don't call one of those timeouts to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Now.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
The look I know you like you needed them. Yeah,
but I mean it doesn't matter if you don't convert,
I understand. Just give your quarterback a chance to catch
his breath. Tell Andre, let's put some stick them on
the gloves or something like the second down run.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
I'm not gonna say, and needs to get separation more
than I would fall. I would follow him for the
route more than the catch more. But they're both I
mean they're pile to him. I mean, I thought that
was the moment they missed Kasiki, the one moment they
miss Kasiki more than anything where you get the double
double beater where Gasiki against a linebacker, he just is
(35:28):
beating people off the line. He's getting free, whereas Yoshi
got caught up, couldn't get free, couldn't get that. I mean,
that is I you know, that's a Gasiki ball if
I've ever seen one. And so I thought that was
the first moment since he's gone down that it felt
glaring that they were missing him, and they have been,
because you know, you've seen the Yoshi. Stuff that's happened
that hasn't been catching up is stuff that would be
(35:49):
uh would be directed to Mike.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
I thought about Ermain Burton.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Really, yeah, I mean because if if you're if because
you wanted to break walls in your house.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
No, because if you're frustrated with Andre Joshavas, you go, okay,
well who else is there?
Speaker 4 (36:06):
The answer should be a do you use a third
round pick on? Last year?
Speaker 3 (36:10):
I know he's the lowest of all low hanging fruits,
but like the Andre Yoshavas conversation has kind of picked
up steam, and I get it is having a hard
time getting open, but I feel like he's kind of
being cast in a role that he shouldn't be in
because of their failures, because of the Kasiki.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Being hurt and being Jamaine Burton, right, I mean it's
that problem is not going anywhere.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
How many wins will it take to win the AFC North?
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I think nine in a tie break?
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Can the Bengals get to sure? Think so, yeah, got
goes six and two right the rest of the way.
What's six and five? I mean, yeah, six and three
the rest of the way. Yeah, I mean it's you know,
it's not great. I don't can then, I mean sure,
(37:02):
I don't know. It doesn't feel great obviously, and I
don't think that their defense is gonna get bad. I
went I did the work of looking at the last
ten years, the teams that were in this bottom fifteen
worst defensive suiting the first half of the season over
the last ten years. Bengals are in there, Cowboys this
year in there, And I would just look at those teams,
(37:22):
looked at where they all ended. You don't want to
know it doesn't get better. How about this, Almost all.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Of them still ended up in the bottom three defensively
after their first tex something that the improvement, like the
idea of it improving dramatically. Maybe you get a little bit,
you can maybe get up into the like twenty five
twenty four area, but like you're you're probably gonna still
have the worst defensive football.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
If they score one more point than the Chicago Bears
on Sunday, that's what everybody's gonna talk about for two weeks.
When you know they've survived this, they're a game under
at the bys, do some self scouting, some self scout,
right scout, do some self scouting, get to buy and
(38:07):
come back beat the Steelers once.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Sure, it don't look like world beaters. I mean, I
don't think anybody looks like world beaters. I think we've
now reached to the point where Vegas is looking at
us all like we told you, Yes, the ravens, we
told you the ravens. Okay, that went over Chicago by
the by Snoop Puntley. Yes, is going to turn out
to be massive. Yes, because they could have fallen to
one and six, and we know how that math goes. Now,
(38:32):
now the doors open, the doors open, Lamar's back and
their schedule. They have a chance to really go on
a run here and they you know, they they can
be and and the fact that Pittsburgh has come back
to the pack opens the door for them to come
right back into it. Whereas it would have felt like, man,
maybe that's one loss too many. If the Bears take
them out in Baltimore, we may look back at that
(38:52):
as something.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
Well, thank you as always.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, it was great, It was really was. It really
was great for me.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah, I get to get stuff off my chest. Yeah,
get your analysis of things. I don't feel any better sometimes.
I like we tried though. Look, I felt like we
really tried today. We tried to latch onto some things.
We tried to find something to help people. Yeah, we
don't want people to have their dabbers down all the time.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
No trying.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I don't want down all the time. No, pick it up,
let's go. And the thing is, like I did, we
did fifty two minutes. And I badly want to make
fun of Corey Dylon, but I'm not even gonna make
you do that.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Oh I wouldn't mind. Well, no, I'm not. No, I
mean his I what I pre Here's what I appreciate
about Corey Dillon. Yeah, he has never been anything other
than on brand. Like at every turn, this is who
Corey is. Yes, he's just he's he's gonna be angry,
(39:50):
he's gonna be mad about stuff. He's gonna feel disrespected,
often delusionally, sometimes rightfully.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
Uh, in this instance, it's not rightfully.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
It's not right. Understand. I know it's not rightfully in
the sistance. But over the course of all the way
back to Corey as a player, to the time that
he went off to me and and you know, I said, hey,
what do you want me to do with this? He said,
print it, print every word of it. I did. And
then there was this tour about how I shouldn't have
done that. You know that that happened, and it's like
this is this is kind of this is just kind
(40:21):
of what it is and and if you've decide that
you want to be disrespected and that's going to be
part of your personality. I think that's part of Corey's personality.
I've liked Corey, like every time I have talked to
Corey met Corey interviewed one of.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
My favorite guests.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Whenever he's this Austen phenomenal. I hate that this stuff
repeatedly seems to happen where it's always got to be
so have so much animosity, but you know, so so
it goes. I think it's just kind of it's consistent.
You know, it's remarkable. It's consistent over over every aspect
and every every portion of his career.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
All Right, we have to go.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
Thank you as always, Paul t Energy to read him
in The Athletic, Theathletic dot Com, and Catch the Growler podcast.
Latest episode dropped a little bit earlier this afternoon. Taylor
Twelman from MLS Season Pass and Apple TV is going
to join us in ten minutes talk about FC Cincinnati's
playoff opening win last night on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 5 (41:18):
Station these ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 6 (41:23):
Traffic from the UC Health traffic center with a stroke.
Every second counts, and so does your team. Home to
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is the clear choice for strop Care. Learn more at
UCHealth dot com. Union Center boulevards still closed off from
a vehicle fire in both directions between Mulhauser Road and
(41:45):
I seventy five, looking like cleanup and inspections underway. There
also an accident on Alexandria Pike at Constable Drive on
at Ezelic with traffic.
Speaker 5 (41:56):
This report is spun
Enter this nationwide keyword on our website, and the bills
that's bills enter it now.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Well it's closed versus pause. When the Bengals and Bears
battle in the jungle, one thing I know for sure,
somebody's getting mauled. Will the Orange and Black pounce on
the wind or will the team from the Windy City
blow away? Our beloved Bengals coverage begins Sunday at nine am.
Stream for free. Are the new and improved iHeartRadio app
(00:32):
or ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals, the.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Official home, not an unofficial home. What's up, Good afternoon, Mollegger.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank you for listening. We
are broadcasting from Oakley Greens. It's Tuesday, so we're at
Oakley Greens and there's a ton happening at Oakley Greens.
By the way, they've got trigger treating tomorrow and it's
(01:00):
gonna be indoors because I guess the weather is gonna
be DICESO. Uh, don't don't look at the forecast and
go I no, no, no. There'll be trigger treating indoors
from five to eight tomorrow while supplies last. If you're
thinking ahead of the weekend college and pro football. You
can watch the Bengals game on Sunday, and then you
can stick around to watch FC Cincinnati, which won last
(01:22):
night Game two against Columbus, and the college basketball season
starts next week. Obviously, you can watch your favorite team here.
This place is terrific, mini golf, dog friendly, family friendly,
two different bars, extraordinary, extraordinarily attentive staff. We love the
folks here at Oakley Greens. Speaking of FC Cincinnati, our
(01:44):
guy Taylor Twelman from MLS Season Pass on Apple TV
is gonna join us in an hour to talk about
last night's one nothing FC Cincinnati went over Columbus, looking
ahead the game two on Sunday that coming.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Up at four oh five.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Full show preview is available on Twitter at moegg thanks
to share Facts credit Union. Our friend Paul Danner Junior
is here though, who liked me. Stayed up to watch
the eighteen inning baseball game Game three of the World Series,
and we both look like it.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, don't, don't, don't look or field great, but we're
but we're here to do it. Powering through right now,
I've got I did. I stopped and picked up the
extra coffee on the way. I needed the extra jolt.
I get it. I was feeling it, Yeah, I was
feeling but I'm ready now I'm good.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
At what point were you like me? Did you start
just rooting for the game to never end?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Oh? Absolutely, I would say, well, first of all, I
did it. This is the only reason it was possible.
I slept from like the eighth inning to like the thirteenth.
Oh okay, okay, right, and not even knowing that. When
you wake up and the World Series is that far in,
I'm like, okay, I'm in. I'll stick around to see
how this ends, right, And next thing you know, I'm like,
(02:49):
I guess, I guess I'm doing no sleep like that,
because then I'm investing, because then it gets good. I
gotta say. When I moved from laying there watching to
when they were maybe he was actually gonna get to
swing the bat for that one at bat, when they
weren't gonna intentionally walk them. I popped up and I
sat up on my couch. I was like, well, I
guess they got me. Yes, they got me. Off the
actual like, I'm not laying anymore. I'm here to actually
(03:12):
sit up on the edge of my seat, which I did.
But uh and that and when uh, you know, when
they're like pulling the game two starter who had the
complete game, putting him into the bullpen, I'm like, this
is I used to love when regular season games would
do this. Yes, late night reyes would happen and it'd
be like seventeen innings in San Diego and just it
(03:35):
would just be you and like twenty of your friends
who are still up on Twitter talking about the ridiculous
system when that happens in the regular season.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
My favorite part when the Reds would be in a
game like that, and we really don't have them anymore
because now dumb magic runner role is you could tell
when the announcers had postgame plans that were being interrupted
because they get cranky about it.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
They'd get salty when the game continued.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I I'm kind of an insomnia so I wrestle with
this all the time because I do have a hard
time falling asleep. Like once every two weeks I'll be
laying there at two thirty three o'clock and it's like,
all right, at what point am I just gonna say
screw it? At what point will it not matter if
I get any sleep? And that's kind of where I
was last night. So what I was rooting for was
(04:19):
for the game to still be going on when my
wife got up for work. I wanted her to come
down to the living room and see me sitting there
drinking a cup of coffee watching Game three of the
World Series.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Not to belabor this point, but usually my dog will
sit next to me on the couch whenever I stay
down there, Lady. He was until like at a certain point,
even my dog was like, I'm gonna turn in and
just went upstairs midway through, and I was like, man,
he I think he's got a pretty good point that
maybe maybe I should be considering going up.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Well, we're both feeling it a little bit today.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
We're good.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
I would probably.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Rather talk about the baseball game last night for the
next hour, but we do have issues to discuss as
they relate to the Bengals. By the way, guy just
walked in wearing a fire Zac Taylor T shirt.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
So that's that's where we are.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
It's where.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
You wrote about.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
The youth and inexperience on display with the Bengals defense,
and like I I want to use that as not
an excuse but an explanation.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
But I can't.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I can't, And as you pointed out Al Golden to
his gretit is not buying the Hey, we're going to
have to go through growing pains. I guess what I
am clinging to is this that at some point in
the short term, meaning this season, there could still be
a payoff from so many of these young guys accumulating experience.
(05:47):
Right now, I'm skeptical that that'll be the case. I'm
having to talk myself into it. I am as out
on Duke Tobin as I've ever been. The way they
lost that I certainly believe it's the worst loss of
the Zach Taylor era.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
But I'm trying.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
I'm trying to tell myself that if they could just
stay afloat, which is all we do in Cincinnati, just
root for teams to stay afloat, that you know what,
there'll be a payoff and in December we'll talk about see, Hey,
Demitrius Knight knows how to tackle because he learned by
not tackling anybody in October. And all these young guys
who weren't good in the middle of the season, well
now they're really good because the the experience is paying off.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
You're making a face.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I can't. I'm you don't have to, you don't have
to try. I don't. You know your your your skepticism
is right. I mean, this is the ultimate hope is
not a plan.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I mean I feel like the hope is that that
that these guys will look better as they just play more.
And and that's true. I mean, I don't want to.
I'm not trying to discount the future careers of Dimitrius
Knight and Barrett Carter and Schmar Stewart for that matter.
You know, three rookies that are essentially out there starting
(07:06):
to meters. It's like my age, but that's okay, it's
still a rookie. Yes, I hear you, But I'm not
here to discount that what they can eventually grow into.
It's one thing to have one guy that you're living through.
It's another thing to have two of them right next
to each other. It's another thing to then have a
third one where there's moments where they're just this triangle
(07:27):
of youth and bad happening and on plays that are
coming right at them. It's you know, and you're you're okay, Well,
then they've seen that now, so they won't make that
mistake and they see. But there's gonna be a season.
There's nobody will tell you, but you know it's gonna
happen quick like you're gonna it's gonna you're gonna snap
your fingers and all of a sudden, they're gonna be good. No,
(07:48):
everyone tells you this process is slow, it is gradual.
It takes time. It's not gonna happen overnight. Well, they're
gonna lose games in the meantime. Yeah, they're losing you
games right now. I mean, they lost you one on Sunday.
They're gonna continue to lose you games this year as
long as this is the plan. And it is the plan,
I mean, the the line yesterday of this is this
(08:10):
is where we're at, Like this is That's kind of
the thing that I can't get out in my head.
It isn't a mission like this is it. This is
what we're doing, right We're gonna let these guys go
out here and play, and we are going to understand
that it's not gonna be pretty, that these are who
they are right now, and we're hoping that they'll be
a little bit better next week and a little bit
(08:30):
better the week after that, and that by the end
of that that'll be something. But an admission of of
there's there's nothing changing, there's no other changes, there's no
there's not anything major that's gonna happen. I will I'll
give you this if you want some some some I
don't know if it's hope, but it's something to latch onto,
a kind of bit for you. I will say, I
do think what has been under discussed in this latest
(08:54):
downturn by this defense in the last month or whatever
it is, it very much coincides with the Trey Hendrickson injury. Okay,
he as their lone star, you know, was was able
to mask some of the other things that were going
on there. And it's right, and I think that there's
(09:17):
you know, separate conversations about things that have happened since
Trey's injury beyond just him not being out there. But
I think the fact they don't have other stars, the
cliff is so deep after him, clearly, between that and
Miles and Joseph Side and Shamar Stewart and the lack
of pressure is just so debilitating for the team. And
(09:37):
at the very least when Trey was out there, he
was soaking up at tension of an offensive coordinator. You
can see the difference I have in a story it's
going to be up tomorrow on the trade deadline, which
you can imagine where that starts with Trey Hendrickson not
being a part of anything. Is is the is the
point that the the on off field splits this year
(09:59):
are incredible when Trey is on the field versus when
he has not been on the field this year, they
truly do go from the historic, god awful defense that
I think everybody sort of saw on Sunday and for
portions of a lot of their recent life. But like
also they were when he's been on the field, it's
(10:20):
been okay ish. That counts a lot of early in
the season when quarterbacks are different. So again I'm telling you,
like I'm putting asterisks on this and understanding that there's
a bit of a reach it, but it's true. I mean,
they've never needed Trey more when he's the only guy,
him and DJ Turner at this point the only guys
out there. And so I think that whenever he can
(10:42):
get fully healthy, which I don't know that that's gonna
be this week, it would make a major difference in
it not feeling.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
So out of control like it did on some Did
any of his teammates see that dude for the Jets
cheap shot him?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
John Simpson, No, I maybe not. I don't know, although
we know there is a history of not reacting when
one of your major stars.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Get try say what you want about him, Like guy
comes up right behind him and just pushes him in
the back.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, and all the other dudes are like, yeah, well,
I don't know, I don't know, I do Here's I
don't know. I don't really I didn't have like a
major problem with that. I felt like that guy, the
offensive lineman was going up and sort of doing the
look for work thing, and Trey was doing some spinny stuff,
(11:31):
and I think he felt like Trey was gonna turn
back towards me ends up pitting him in the back.
It wasn't great. Doesn't look he'll probably get fine. Yeah,
but I didn't feel like it was like dirty. I
don't was the minority cheap Yeah, that was cheap. It
was unnecessary.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
And apparently his teammates all agree with you, because they
just kind of looked at him like he was like, guy,
get on the bus or something.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Man, it's so.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Not coming in to the defense of their captain.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
So Zach Taylor said, they're gonna he's gonna come up
with creative ways to address the tackling.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
What do you think those look like?
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I don't know. Maybe it's not only.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Allowed to watch a certain part of practice.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, we definitely won't be able to see whatever that
creative part that's.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Within your purview is not.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Maybe we're gonna get Maybe we're gonna get more. I
like the pre practice dummy work that you get there,
you get the dummy with the ball and then these
guys they come running up and they do this like
crazy maneuver to try to show how they're slapping the
ball out on the way down. Maybe they just extend
that to like a full hour of just diving on
the path, which I could get into. It looks fun.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Okay, is it gonna work?
Speaker 1 (12:40):
No? No, nothing they're gonna creatively do in practice is
gonna change anything that's gonna happen. Like, that's not they
You are either able to go out there and tackle.
So whatever you're gonna do when you're not really allowed
to do anything and you're not trying to hurt. Anybody
in practice is not gonna help you. Look like this
(13:00):
is who you look like, tackling like you either want
to go do it, you're able to do it, or
you're unable to do it. And they have too many
guys on the team who they knew weren't great at
doing it, and that has proven to be the case,
and turns out when you put a bunch of those
guys together, it's really bad.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Demitrious Knight tackles like he plays defense like he's standing
on a boat trying to walk from one end of
it to the other.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Wallet's in the middle of the ocean. That's how he
plays football.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Maybe he'd be maybe he'd be good on a boat.
Maybe that's maybe that's his future. Maybe boat football could
be the captain, could be the captain of the boat.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
That's what he looks like.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, the I think that has been He got a
how golden Dan Horde, as he often does, asked a
great question yesterday and it was windy, and know that
young players just aren't very good, right.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Like you know how Goldham asked this.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
No, I'm sorry, Dan Horne, I'm sorry if I said wow,
that's I apologize. No, no, if I say, maybe I misheard,
you know, I'm sorry. Dan asked Al goldon that in
our session with Al goldon yesterday, and the the answer
was he brought up Jermaine Pratt. He was like, you know,
a lot of people would have said after Jermaine Pratt's
(14:17):
rookie year that he would never become the guy that
he was for on the twenty one to twenty two
teams they had and the places and that it just
takes time, and you can you can see it. So
you don't want to, you know, you can't just quit
on guys because of the way that that maybe they
look unsure or what a hesitant is a word that
(14:38):
Zach Taylor used to say about some of these guys.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Ark Carter looks hesitant, like just seric Carter looks hesitant.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
He looks like a guy that just isn't totally sure
what he's doing out there. And so that is something
that theoretically should get washed away with time. So I
buy that. But you're right when you see him and
I think I think he's not there. I think Demetri
Snite looks hesitant as well. But you see that where
you like, you get into the hole and like, oh
am I supposed to go for this or like or
(15:05):
you could just be in your three like Jordan Battle
and just come around the edge and decide to do
some sort of hand dance instead of actually going so cool.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Jordan Battle looked like the Dodgers players when they hit
a double because they Battle looks like that's exactly what
it was.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
It was he's doing like this, like with the weird
dance on the way in, It's like, you know, between
that and and the angles taken with Jordan Battle, I
feel like.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
You know there was Derek Carter looks like you ever
been on a slippery floor where they have to sign
up that says slippery floor, but you can't see where
the wet spots are, so you're sort of trying. That's
what he plays, That's how he plays football. Yeah, I
spent all day Sunday.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I was gonna say, I was like, you clearly are like,
I'm gonna have a lot of time to fill where
I'm gonna have to talk about analogies to what these
players are looking like, and it is it's hard to uh,
it's hard to put into words at this point other
than the fact that you better get used to it.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Paul Danner Junior covering the Bengals and their defense The
Athletic dot com latest edition of the Growler podcast PD
and Jay, of which I made an appearance, and that
was productive.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
We solved a lot of the issues there.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
I actually thought it was great today. I really enjoyed
today's conversation.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
I enjoyed it. Yeah, I got to talk about being
on safety patrol. Yeah, so much more.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Catch that.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
As we say, where you get your podcasts, including on YouTube.
Paul's here till four, We are here till six. There
is a lot of ground to cover before Paul takes
off and takes a nap because he's sayed up too
late watching baseball on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
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ucehealth dot com. Union Center Boulevard is closed off in
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(16:59):
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Speaker 3 (17:11):
This report twenty five minutes after three o'clock. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty Molwagger broadcasting from Oakley Greens where you
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you might imagine in Oakley, Paul Danner Junior from the
(17:32):
Athletic dot Com and the Growler podcast is with us.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
You guys get to find out maybe what happened in
the players only meeting with the defensive guys.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Nothing happened, Nothing ever happens in these meetings. It's it's
just we were talking about this in the podcast today
and I can't I keep going back to this, Like
what is the bigger waste of time? The ping pong
tables being taken out of the lock room or the
players only meeting like which which is more overhyped? You know?
(18:05):
Like this? Ah, this is Hey, did you see how
the Ravens played after the ping pong tables got out. Yeah,
just need to straighten up a little bit, get more serious.
This is gonna be a players. Players are gonna hold
accountability that guess what, the same players are gonna walk
out of that meeting that went into that meeting. And
that's the problem right now, Like the accountability. Okay, were
(18:27):
you not trying? We really to believe that no one
was trying, Like I just I don't think it's effort.
I don't think tellents it it's it's it's talent.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Duke Tobin is in charge of acquiring and accumulating the talent.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
And I said this to.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
You on the Growler, So I don't want to redo
the entire segment. This is as pissed as I've been
at him as a fan, right and I feel like,
for the first time ever, he is squarely in the
public's crosshairs.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Now, fans being upset with a coach does not necessarily
translate to their proverbial seat being hot. But you get
the sense with Duke that it's the ground is maybe
not as firm as it has been.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Is that the way I think that's I think I
think there's I think there's cracks in the foundation just
by the nature of the accumulation of time, the Burrow window,
and just how poorly the picks and the free agency
acquisitions and the lack of you know, those has been
(19:40):
And so I think that you're at a point now
where I don't ever feel like there's I wouldn't even
use the word like likely, not at all, Like it's
still very unlikely. They're just the nature of of who
Duke Tobin is, the family, the realct like everything about it,
it is so firmly entrenched. Him being taken out of
(20:07):
this role would be one of the most stunning things
that I've ever covered here, just because of who he
is and where they are. That said it, it feels
shakier than ever. And like you said, the fans have
him more in the crosshairs because that he's the one
that belongs in the cross hairs. There was a sort
of war wage right between Lou and Rumo and kind
(20:30):
of felt like Lumo and Duke Tobin like it was
it was it's the players, No, it's the coaching, right,
and so it felt like there was these two sides
and then if you were gonna come out of that
and one side looks clearly right, and it's the man
in Indianapolis. I think everyone looks around and says, how
is this still going on? Maybe it was all of
(20:50):
these players that have come in, Maybe it's philosophy, maybe
it's whatever it is like that does it inevitably right
now feels more like it has fallen on him than ever.
But you know, it's it's just such a patient place
and it's so different than anywhere else that it's just
it's really hard to foresee that. But yeah, I think
(21:14):
it feels like there's a little bit of those cracks
that maybe haven't even been thought of existing in recent years,
just because of you know, games like Sunday. Yeah, I
mean that that stuff, it makes an impact and the
accumulation of it now over three years of this defense
being terrible because of all of these mispicks and bad
(21:35):
free agent decisions. Directly, it's you can't avoid you can't
avoid that to a.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Certain point, Was that the worst loss of the last
seven and a half years or six and a half years,
Zam Taylor?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
I don't know. I mean, I think in the moment,
when you consider the big picture of this season, yeah,
but it's still October, so it could get worse. Definitely
get worse. But I mean, I just I just think
in terms of stakes, things are on the lineing you've
had late late in the season games that have been debilitating.
But to have a game literally play out to every
(22:09):
way that it's supposed to. You play with the lead,
You've got a team that's zero to seven down at home,
momentum from Flacco in your house, offenses cruising, and then
this thing that had sort of been like been able
to be shoved under the rug a little bit for
a minute while till Flacco came in and everything else
is like, oh, oh, that thing that you felt like
(22:29):
you had maybe quite just enough by winning all of
a sudden just comes out and eat you alive in
front of everybody, and then you get booed off of
a field that you score thirty eight on is just yeah.
I mean, in terms of optics of it in the moment,
it feels like that. I'm not in terms of big
picture impact and stakes, because they can go out and
(22:52):
win a bunch of games the rest of the way
out and overcome that. But yeah, in terms of in
the moment, that was that's that's up there. If not
number one, I.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Haven't ranked them, so I like, I haven't sat down.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Got a full week of time to fill.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Okay, maybe i'll do that this week.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Maybe we get there.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Yeah, I'll do that on the plane ride to Utah
and then tweet it or something on SA.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
You rank that, and I'll rank all your analogies of
what Bengals defensive players look like trying to tackle, and
then we'll compare notes.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
I've got a few more.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, I'm sure you do.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
It's twenty nine away from four o'clock. Where at Oakley
Green's Paul Danner Junior. Follow him on x at Paul
Danner Junior Sports Headlines More with Paul next on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 7 (23:37):
Here at since E three to sixty, there's no shortage
of things to talk about, whether it's the Bengals search
for a quarterback, the Bearcats search for supremacy, or the
Red search for offense. Listen to since E three to
sixty weekdays at noon on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 6 (23:57):
Traffic from the UC Health to Traffics Center with a
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(24:18):
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Speaker 3 (24:31):
He spawnor Kelsey Chevrolet home of lifetime power train and protection.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
And guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours for life.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Kelseychev dot com. Bengals have made some moves Shaka Heyward
to the surprise of nobody goes on ir with that
busted fibula, Matt Lee goes on ir with a knee injury,
and defensive tackle Mike Pennell has been released. He played
in eight games for the Bengals this season and for
about not a twelve to fIF teen minutes when they
acquired him, he was going to be the big off
(25:02):
season acquisition.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
It didn't really.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Take No, it was a whole lot of like, wait,
he's looking Do you see how he played? He really
solidified the run defense? And did he no nothing, I mean,
did you did he?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Did he not show up at the players only meeting?
Speaker 1 (25:19):
What did he look like? What do you think he
looked like playing defensive tackle?
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Hmm, it's a good question.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
It's a kind of like an old man or rocking chair,
just kind of like.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Let me think about that.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yeah, the problem is I really can't remember watching him play.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
That's definitely a problem.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
Right, Yeah, nothing about his time in Cincinnati.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Stood out to me. No, No, he sure didn't.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Evan Pryor. It's not looking good for Saturday. Scott Saderfield
today said he's going to be listed as out in
all likelihood and the first.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Injury report of the week.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Bearcats on the road against Utah on Saturday night at
ten fifteen. Tonight, it's a game four the World Series,
Blue Jay's Dodgers, Bieber's Show, Hey Otani.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
They may play nine innings tonight, maybe more. Who knows.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
La up two to one after the Freddie Freeman walk
off in the bottom of the eighteenth inning last night.
FC Cincinnati up one to zero on Columbus. The Orange
and Blue are off today before returning to training tomorrow.
The game on Sunday at six forty five on Fox
Sports thirteen sixty. Roman Selatano. His multi save sequence against
(26:27):
Nashville earned him Save of the Year honors from Major
League Soccer. At Hockey Tonight, the Blue Jackets are on
the road against Buffalo Paul Danner Juniors. Here from The
Athletic and the Growler podcast. So like, we made fun
of the players only meeting, but I was talking about
this with Tony yesterday because Tony Pike played on a
winning team but where the offense was awesome and the
(26:50):
defense was atrocious. And one thing we've kind of talked
about this year is say what you want about Zach.
It has never really felt like, in some of the
darkest time that you've ever looked at him and said, boy,
the effort's not there, or that the locker room is
falling apart or things are starting to splinter. But if
that's ever gonna happen, chances are it's gonna be when
one part of the team is really good. And not
(27:12):
that the offense was perfect on Sunday, but when one
part of the team is really good and the other
is wasting its efforts. Should that be the sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
We worry about? Yeah, I mean you're I think you're
always worried about that in situations where it's so dramatically different,
like it has been over the last month. Yeah, But
I also you know what I thought, I mean, leave
it to the wise, the wise man at quarterback. I
thought his point after the game about look, you guys
(27:42):
need to just look to themselves, and what he finds
is just what you'll find is that the guys that
feel the worst about it, they care the most about it,
are the ones where they feel like they're letting everybody
else down. They put that on themselves. It's not as
much a matter as the guys that are playing well,
finger pointing of look at these clowns. It's really far
more about the ones that feel like they're letting their
(28:03):
teammates down. It's the worse than if you just focus
on yourself, do your job and remember, and he said
this before, I think when it's maybe his introductory to us,
it was like, don't worry about what anybody do your
job like, no one cares what you're doing, man, Like,
just you just do your thing, do do your job.
No one's worried about you. Everyone worried about themselves. When
you do that, those things tend to correct themselves a
(28:25):
little bit. So I think they have the right people
in terms of that in there. But you know, I mean,
it's only natural, sure, But.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I watched Jamar Chase on Sunday, and I thought he
gamely handled some questions that.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
I felt like everybody was poking.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
They were trying, Hey, you want to.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Take a shot of the defense. You want to take
a shot of the defense. You want to take a
shot at the defense, and he and he and he didn't,
And we talked about his maturity, and I do think
that he's come a really long way in that regard.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
He was better than I would have been.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, no, yeah, I know exactly exactly. I would not have.
I don't know how well I've been able to handle it.
But I think you could sense him being like, I'm
not going to do it, Okay, guys like, yeah, I'm pissed,
I hate losing and all of that stuff, but I'm
not going to sit here and point fingers in the defense.
Even though everybody knows that I could, I'm not going to.
(29:16):
And I think when you have that at the top.
It does go a long way to everybody just being like, look,
do your thing, go score forty time and try to
go win the game and understand that that's you know,
everybody's everybody's doing everything that they can, or at least
you hope that they are. Yeah, what what.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Would have happened if like Jamar is like, I want
to come to the Defensive Players Only meeting?
Speaker 4 (29:38):
He allowed? Sure, let him?
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I think he would be I don't know how many
you always like to do this game. Who's the least
offensive person, who's the lowest level offensive person that they
would allow into the Defensive Players Only meeting? Jamar would
get in because he's Jamar. He can goa t burrow
like Flacco. They they could come in there. What at
(30:01):
what point is it like is it like Yoshi Pok
poking his head in the door, like, hey guys, No,
I like, I don't know that guy's got.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Problems with his own No A fan, no a fan.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
That's the line. He's a veteran, yes, so he should
be allowed in to come say something.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
He would be like allowed to poke his head in,
poke his head in, but not attend.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
And they're like but hey, Tanner's got to stay outside,
right like they would let like you would think they
would like Keris, they would let Orlando Brown, right.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Those guys right, But but anybody else I think would
be told.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
No, I hate meetings.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
I have a job in radio.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Because I don't have to get dressed up and because
I don't have to go to meetings. When there are meetings,
I asked the same question every single time. Will there
be snacks? Will there be I've worked for people who
are like, all right, well we have to have a meeting. Yes,
we're gonna ask do you think they had snacks?
Speaker 1 (30:50):
No? Booze definitely not.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
Okay, I'm not going I feel like I feel.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Like maybe there was uh imprompt to Sunday night meeting
with Booze. Probably, I would imagine.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Now here's the one thing about the team offensively, they're
like a decent running team.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Now decent how about this? So we had we had
Justin Hill, running backs coach, on the Rewatch Show Monday,
and I went through just parsing out the last month.
And so in the month of October, the Bengals had
the number one rushing offense in the NFL in terms
(31:34):
of efficiency success right, and now they're all they do
is get explosives. Yeah, it's unbelievable. It's and it's p
Ryan too well. They've found a really nice mix. I
think Samaje, you know the nature of the way they
use him, their tendency with him of when he's out there,
he's going to be in pass pro standing next to
(31:56):
Flacco now and you just kind of the look pass
and especially the way they use the receivers on outside
the numbers and stuff. You can find those alleys up.
They have made a living off of these p RN
middle runs on second long which I know you love
second long runs, and they've they've found explosives out of them,
(32:19):
they've found efficient runs out of them. He's he's had
this kind of downhill power thing that helps those be
efficient to get your third and five or six, which
Flacco has been really good at. And so when you
have that, like, it's made for a nice one too.
I would not have thought before the season that you
would have had him carve out this much of a
role with Chase Brown had taken as much as strides
(32:43):
as he had, But I think he's helped Chase Brown
because Chase Brown looks fresh and explosive when he's out there.
He doesn't not that he would wear down, but he
certainly looks fresh and with with a lot of energy.
And they just kind of created a nice, a nice combo.
And that was my question for Justin Hill. I said,
if if I talk to you on the flight back
from Denver on Monday night football and said, guess what,
(33:06):
over the next month, you're going to have the number
one rushing offense in football by efficiency, what would you?
And He's just like, you know, they have had such
an uphill climb to get to that point. Yeah, I
think that there's you know that it's a kudos to
that group because that looked dead in the water. You
talk about historically awful. Yes, maybe that's something as we
try to spend this hour finding things to latch onto.
(33:29):
If you can do that with the run game, then
maybe you can do something with the defense going from
historically awful. But the problem is there's not one person
that can come in and really change the entire dynamic
of the defense like Joe Flacco did for the offense.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Also was seven minutes to go and you're gashing them
on the ground. The previous drive they were awesome on
the ground, and you're trying to kill some clock, salt
the game away. Could you call a running play?
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yeah, no doubt. I mean I think between that and
I don't you know, I know, I've seen the less drive,
second and ten run getting beat up a little bit.
I didn't have a problem with that. I mean the
timing before it. Yeah, I love the amount of time
that they let run off. But I didn't have a
problem because they had been getting explosives out of it,
(34:15):
and they were only a couple of first downs with
multiple timeouts left away from getting into field goal range.
I understand the hesitation of being like, you know, really
when it gets one yard, but they had had so
many productive runs like that in that situation, and you
had to feel like, Okay, you've got the defense. Maybe
thinking past as well, you could pop another one of those.
(34:36):
They had just popped them with Chase Brown. That didn't
bother me as much. Tony brought this up yesterday.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Fourth down. Your quarterback was just in the locker room.
The game and the season are hanging in the balance.
You don't call one of those timeouts to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Now.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
The look I know you like you needed them. Yeah,
but I mean it doesn't matter if you don't convert,
I understand. Just give your quarterback a chance to catch
his breath. Tell Andre, let's put some stick them on
the gloves or something like the second down run.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
I'm not gonna say, and needs to get separation more
than I would fall. I would follow him for the
route more than the catch more. But they're both I
mean they're pile to him. I mean, I thought that
was the moment they missed Kasiki, the one moment they
miss Kasiki more than anything where you get the double
double beater where Gasiki against a linebacker, he just is
(35:28):
beating people off the line. He's getting free, whereas Yoshi
got caught up, couldn't get free, couldn't get that. I mean,
that is I you know, that's a Gasiki ball if
I've ever seen one. And so I thought that was
the first moment since he's gone down that it felt
glaring that they were missing him, and they have been,
because you know, you've seen the Yoshi. Stuff that's happened
that hasn't been catching up is stuff that would be
(35:49):
uh would be directed to Mike.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
I thought about Ermain Burton.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Really, yeah, I mean because if if you're if because
you wanted to break walls in your house.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
No, because if you're frustrated with Andre Joshavas, you go, okay,
well who else is there?
Speaker 4 (36:06):
The answer should be a do you use a third
round pick on? Last year?
Speaker 3 (36:10):
I know he's the lowest of all low hanging fruits,
but like the Andre Yoshavas conversation has kind of picked
up steam, and I get it is having a hard
time getting open, but I feel like he's kind of
being cast in a role that he shouldn't be in
because of their failures, because of the Kasiki.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Being hurt and being Jamaine Burton, right, I mean it's
that problem is not going anywhere.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
How many wins will it take to win the AFC North?
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I think nine in a tie break?
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Can the Bengals get to sure? Think so, yeah, got
goes six and two right the rest of the way.
What's six and five? I mean, yeah, six and three
the rest of the way. Yeah, I mean it's you know,
it's not great. I don't can then, I mean sure,
(37:02):
I don't know. It doesn't feel great obviously, and I
don't think that their defense is gonna get bad. I
went I did the work of looking at the last
ten years, the teams that were in this bottom fifteen
worst defensive suiting the first half of the season over
the last ten years. Bengals are in there, Cowboys this
year in there, And I would just look at those teams,
(37:22):
looked at where they all ended. You don't want to
know it doesn't get better. How about this, Almost all.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Of them still ended up in the bottom three defensively
after their first tex something that the improvement, like the
idea of it improving dramatically. Maybe you get a little bit,
you can maybe get up into the like twenty five
twenty four area, but like you're you're probably gonna still
have the worst defensive football.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
If they score one more point than the Chicago Bears
on Sunday, that's what everybody's gonna talk about for two weeks.
When you know they've survived this, they're a game under
at the bys, do some self scouting, some self scout,
right scout, do some self scouting, get to buy and
(38:07):
come back beat the Steelers once.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Sure, it don't look like world beaters. I mean, I
don't think anybody looks like world beaters. I think we've
now reached to the point where Vegas is looking at
us all like we told you, Yes, the ravens, we
told you the ravens. Okay, that went over Chicago by
the by Snoop Puntley. Yes, is going to turn out
to be massive. Yes, because they could have fallen to
one and six, and we know how that math goes. Now,
(38:32):
now the doors open, the doors open, Lamar's back and
their schedule. They have a chance to really go on
a run here and they you know, they they can
be and and the fact that Pittsburgh has come back
to the pack opens the door for them to come
right back into it. Whereas it would have felt like, man,
maybe that's one loss too many. If the Bears take
them out in Baltimore, we may look back at that
(38:52):
as something.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
Well, thank you as always.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, it was great, It was really was. It really
was great for me.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah, I get to get stuff off my chest. Yeah,
get your analysis of things. I don't feel any better sometimes.
I like we tried though. Look, I felt like we
really tried today. We tried to latch onto some things.
We tried to find something to help people. Yeah, we
don't want people to have their dabbers down all the time.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
No trying.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I don't want down all the time. No, pick it up,
let's go. And the thing is, like I did, we
did fifty two minutes. And I badly want to make
fun of Corey Dylon, but I'm not even gonna make
you do that.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Oh I wouldn't mind. Well, no, I'm not. No, I
mean his I what I pre Here's what I appreciate
about Corey Dillon. Yeah, he has never been anything other
than on brand. Like at every turn, this is who
Corey is. Yes, he's just he's he's gonna be angry,
(39:50):
he's gonna be mad about stuff. He's gonna feel disrespected,
often delusionally, sometimes rightfully.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
Uh, in this instance, it's not rightfully.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
It's not right. Understand. I know it's not rightfully in
the sistance. But over the course of all the way
back to Corey as a player, to the time that
he went off to me and and you know, I said, hey,
what do you want me to do with this? He said,
print it, print every word of it. I did. And
then there was this tour about how I shouldn't have
done that. You know that that happened, and it's like
this is this is kind of this is just kind
(40:21):
of what it is and and if you've decide that
you want to be disrespected and that's going to be
part of your personality. I think that's part of Corey's personality.
I've liked Corey, like every time I have talked to
Corey met Corey interviewed one of.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
My favorite guests.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Whenever he's this Austen phenomenal. I hate that this stuff
repeatedly seems to happen where it's always got to be
so have so much animosity, but you know, so so
it goes. I think it's just kind of it's consistent.
You know, it's remarkable. It's consistent over over every aspect
and every every portion of his career.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
All Right, we have to go.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
Thank you as always, Paul t Energy to read him
in The Athletic, Theathletic dot Com, and Catch the Growler podcast.
Latest episode dropped a little bit earlier this afternoon. Taylor
Twelman from MLS Season Pass and Apple TV is going
to join us in ten minutes talk about FC Cincinnati's
playoff opening win last night on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 5 (41:18):
Station these ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 6 (41:23):
Traffic from the UC Health traffic center with a stroke.
Every second counts, and so does your team. Home to
rapid life saving treatment and clinical trials, u see Health
is the clear choice for strop Care. Learn more at
UCHealth dot com. Union Center boulevards still closed off from
a vehicle fire in both directions between Mulhauser Road and
(41:45):
I seventy five, looking like cleanup and inspections underway. There
also an accident on Alexandria Pike at Constable Drive on
at Ezelic with traffic.
Speaker 5 (41:56):
This report is spun
Mo Egger News
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