November 11, 2025 • 42 mins
Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us to discuss Joe Burrow's return, the improved Bengals' offensive line, Trey Hendrickson, a massive defensive rebuild, and whether he will properly give Mo credit for predicting a Bengals victory over the Steelers, if it actually happens, which it probably won't.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Enter this nation.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Y keyword on our website, grant, that's grand. Enter it now.
Bengals Nation lives here.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
That's right, it's a three minutes after three o'clock. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty one.
Speaker 4 (00:16):
ED.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
We are posting up inside at Oakley Greens, which is
an awesome place to watch college basketball, which you can
do tonight. You got UC versus Dayton, you got Kentucky
versus Louisville. You could watch those games here at Oakley Greens.
You can watch any college basketball game you wanted Oakley Greens.
They are fully decorated for the holiday season. They even
(00:41):
have some of the TVs right now. They got like
a fake fireplace, which just it doesn't really bring any heat,
but it just makes me feel warmer. We love the
folks at Oakley Greens. We are here every single Tuesday.
Great place to watch Bengals games. Bengals Steelers on Sunday,
FC Cincinnati a week from Sunday as the Orange and
Blue plays in the Eastern Conference semi finals. Awesome for
(01:03):
your holiday parties, Awesome for us every single Tuesday, especially
when Paul Danner juniors here as he is for the
three o'clock hour from the Athletic dot Com and the
Growler Podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
How are we doing? I'm doing great. You know, the
Oakley Greens has enough space that you could have a
separate cheering section tonight. Yes, for your your Dayton people
and your Cincinnati people. Keep them, keep them separated, you know,
much like we need between you guys here.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Cat fans and Dayton fans. We're not talking about a
bunch of ruffians.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Ok.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
These are nice people who can live with somebody else
rooting against their team. There's no reason to keep everybody separate.
You talk about the two kindest, most understanding fan bases,
Cincinnati and Dayton.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah. Sure, And I just say that if you want
to sit in separate, there's plenty of space to do, yes,
so you don't have to worry about being like next
to the guy who's rooting a little too hard and
a little too in your face about a team. I'm
not saying it would be these two lovely fan bases
of no, of course not. But it does happen with
sports Kentucky and Louisville right now. Excepate I would need
(02:12):
separate buildings.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Well, you could put them all in here and and
and sort of just work your way among all the
use and Dayton fans tonight and you'll be good to go.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Absolutely plenty of plenty of good games.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
It's awesome to have you. Not a lot going on
in the Monday after the bye week. I really thought
we'd get a nice call Monday. I think, you know
what coming out of.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
The by it's it's what's gonna happen today? You know,
let's just let's just ease into the week, and then
no easing into the week this week. That's okay, though,
I'll take a distraction from the topics that we have
been hammering home. So at least for a few minutes,
it felt like we could be like, oh hey, a
(02:52):
nice thing. So that's kind of how I was for
a few minutes, and then immediately brought back down to earth, realizing, yeah,
it doesn't really.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I never would have thought that Joe Burrow announcing his
pseudo return and offering a timeline earlier than anybody expected,
would have listened a shoulder shrug. And yet that's where
a lot of us were yesterday. That's where I ended up.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I mean, I think it's I mean, I think what
Joe is doing is again I sort of wrote about it.
It's like, hey, Joe's doing the hero stuff again, Like
this is unbelievable. He does this all the time, and
he always it's it's always unbelievable, and people understandably rally
around it, and it can it can pull a whole
(03:36):
organization along with him when he when he does these
types of things. The problem inevitably is though, Like to me,
my take on yesterday was that the Joe Burrow return
news was not the biggest news to come out of yesterday. No,
the biggest news to come out of yesterday was already
Trey Hendrickson is doubtful for this weekend. That's who they need.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
That's the hero they need right now is number ninety one.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yes, they they have the I'm not everybody wants to
take this the wrong way when I say this, they
already have. Over the last month since Joe Flacco arrived
at Cincinnati, the number one offense in football by Epapril play,
they've scored thirty eight. They scored eighty and two weeks
thirty three. Like the offense is just not the problem.
They need something otherwise, You're back in the same situation
(04:24):
when we were in last year, when Burrow was playing
right at at the level he was, So, yeah, it's cool, Yes,
I Burrows better than Flacco. I shouldn't have to say that,
but like you do, and it's fine, like, yeah, yes,
obviously that would be good. This is a good development.
But it doesn't change the point of the twenty twenty
five season is that this it doesn't matter if they
(04:46):
can't find somebody or some way to get a stop.
The only hope was that maybe Trey Hendrick saying can
get healthy and be the one to come back and
give you that stop that you need. And now he's
already viewed as doubt which they're not even not even
playing the fake game, you know, the game where we
do the like I don't know, we'll see you're gonna
(05:07):
get him through the week now Wednesday, Yeah, no, doubtful.
And so we're just all ready to that point in
a game where, let's be honest, they're gonna need them.
They're gonna get into the fourth quarter in Pittsburgh, it's
gonna be close or something like that, and you're gonna say, oh,
they just need third and eight, just need one guy.
To get back there, and nobody will the.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Pittsburgh game last year, the game, yeah, or or a
few weeks ago, you know, before the very end where
every game ever for the last two years, it feels
like when he's not out there, So yeah, to me,
it's great, and we can talk all about the borough contingencies,
but they don't really matter because even Burrow at his best,
(05:46):
as we learned last year, can't counter what's happening on
the other side of the football.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And that's sort of the sad thing. Like I Bengals
fans sent me the Lieutenant Dan on New Year's meme
that I feel like that's just how it feels. It's
like everyone should kind of be celebrating, but the one
that knows it's like, yeah, I know, but I'm still
sad because the reality is that this is your life
right now.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
So we were doing the show yesterday, the Tony and
Mo Football Show, and I was driving to go do it,
and I thought like I should be stoked, like I
should feel like, all right, game on, just in the
nick of time, the season can be saved. And I
felt at two o'clock yesterday afternoon the same way that
I felt at nine o'clock yesterday morning, before I saw
(06:31):
that Joe Burrow was coming back in practice. Yeah, Joe
Burrow's return should not not move the meter the way
it did.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, well, you know, we shouldn't be talking about the
nineteen sixty six New York Giants or the nineteen twenty
one Takawanda Whatever's like. I mean, this is where this
is just the part of the issue. I mean, this
is part of everything right now, is there's a hopelessness
because you don't see answers that can really help you
(07:00):
right now. But yeah, I mean, it's exciting. It'd be
cool to see Burrow come back and be that guy again.
And I think that there's a juice that you can
get from that in a locker room. Yeah, you know,
but I don't know that that goes, you know, all
that far when you have so much to overcome.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
So I think for a lot of us, the discussion
has become about the value in Burrow playing if the
losing continues. So he's not gonna play on Sunday. I
certainly think they have more than a puncher's chance to
beat the Pittsburgh Steelers, but you know, they are underdogs
on the road. They've won one of their last seven,
so you certainly don't assume victory. It's completely plausible to
(07:42):
think that they will lose the next two games against
Pittsburgh and home for New England. At that point, they're
three to eight and maybe not mathematically out of it.
But what is already a long shot becomes even longer,
and then so for a lot of us, there's then
no value in Joe playing. You wrote this quote, even
if out of it, Even if they're out of it,
don't expect Burrow to stand down in his desire to
(08:05):
get back under center. So he's playing no matter what,
when when he's cleared, when he when he finally feels
right close to one hundred percent, at least, he's playing
no matter what.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, I think so, I think his sense is when
I'm healthy, I'm the quarterback and I'm here to play.
I mean, this goes back to last year at four
and eight. We're gonna find out who is this you
know we're going to go forward with on this team,
and that all this stuff matters.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
I can help answer that question for this year right now.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I know DJ Turner, yes, yes, but I yeah, I
feel like it goes back to that idea that this
is not to me, this is not gonna be Yeah,
you're impacted by wins and losses, somebody. This is gonna
be about what the doctor says, is there is there
(08:53):
a risk here of reinjury. You know, if you had
surgery and you're all the way back and cleared and
you're doing and there's not not really any risk of
re injury, then if he wants to then you should
play like I mean, this is I get like shelving him,
but if this is not about reinjury, he's a quarterback, Yeah,
(09:13):
like he wants to play football, he should play football.
There's there's value in it. Playing out the string or
not playing out the string. I mean, no one would
have thought at all they would have had a chance
to get back into it at four and eight last
year and they ripped off a bunch of wins and
did find a way. Like to me, I understand the
desire to be like it's over, man, like, just don't
(09:34):
go hurt yourself that right, Joe Burrow didn't get to
this point with that attitude. That's not who he is, right,
And it's not who he is as a person, as
a player and he's gonna want to play, and I
don't think anybody should tell him not to if he's
healthy and there's no extra chance of re injury associated
with this, and that's that's for the doctors to say
(09:57):
at that point in time.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Even if we get to a point where they are
mathematically eliminated.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I think so. I mean, again, if he's healthy, what's
holding him back? I mean other than than should you
shut him down every time we how many times we
watch this guy in the fourth quarter of a game
where they were down by thirty, Yeah, taking zero blitzes
in the face, didn't want to come out, not going
to come out in respect. That not who I am.
(10:25):
I need this team. This is my team met no
matter what out of it, in it, whatever, If he's healthy,
that's you know, that's what they want to be. It's
what they want this team to be. They want this
team to be people that don't quit, that are like, look,
we're in it. We're with as long as we can
(10:46):
go out there and play. And again the risk situation,
but as long as that's not an issue, then go
play football. And I think that everybody, as long as
the doctors are on board with that, would be on
board with that.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I understand.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I understand why fans like I don't want to see
him every no play when it doesn't matter. But that's
just that's not what's gonna help build this team back better.
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
To me, it's kind of like the preseason. It sounds
great on Tuesday afternoon, Hey, Joe should play in the preseason,
and then I watch those preseason games and it's like, uh, man,
just make this end. Please, for the love of God,
what are we doing. These games have no value. Get
him out there. Get him out of there.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Like it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
It sounds great, Joe's gonna play, and you admire it.
And he's a football player, and he's a quarterback and
he's gonna play football, and he's gonna play quarterback, and
that's what you want, and it is what you want
until I'm watching him against the Arizona Cardinals in Week
seventeen in a game that means nothing, and I'm watching
dude's tee off on him so the Bengals can get
win number six or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I don't know, man, I understand. Yeah, I don't know.
I understand. But my point is, if if we're saying
that the toe doesn't.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
It's not so much about the toe, it's about well,
the other way is me is.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Needs to move.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I understand, point to a place on his body to.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Send send a sacrificial Flacco out there the rest of
the year.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Joey having fun. Yeah, go out there and do what
you gotta do. I understand that. Said, I do believe
there is probably if you are on the side of
the fan base that says they have to change how
Joe Burrow plays because of the risk he is under
when he plays the way he does, the way the
offense is functioned with Joe Flacco as quarterback. I can
(12:37):
certainly understand someone saying, well, the best way to do
that is to have Joe Burrow play and play in
a somewhat newly restructured offense, regardless of how much meaning
the games actually have.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, yes, I mean I think there's something to be
said for that. Joe not exactly interested in that storyline yesterday, No,
not at all.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
You know, I mean I thought that to me was
that was my big takeaway from yesterday, Like.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, it wasn't gonna go there. It wasn't really like
interested in that in that thought, which is fine. And
guy Yeah, I mean I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're
here for it. But I mean it's yeah, I I
I understand what you're saying. I just I keep going.
I keep going back to, you know, organizationally, the same
(13:25):
thing we talked about around the trade deadline. M h.
They're not gonna wave the fly. They're not gonna want
it ever to look like there's a game where they're
out there and not doing everything they can to win
as an organization, as the way they just operate. And
I think that could involve Joe Burrow and you know,
if if it's like Joe's good to go, He's it's
all good, go go play, Go play football, and go
(13:48):
play the way that maybe it is using just playing
us the safer, get the ball out faster portion of it.
It's just understanding there's no need to go taking crazy
risks in this game, but go play. Yeah, maybe that
is part of it. Maybe that teaches them something, and
maybe that's connected to the Flacco stuff, Like I don't know,
that's probably minimal in my mind in terms of that.
(14:11):
I think you've got a lot of time to deal
with that. He knows how to play quarterback like that
is a conscious that is not something where he needs
to get reps at it. That's a conscious decision of
I'm gonna get the ball out, you know, a higher
percentage of the time and do less of the trying
to do crazy playmaking unless I have to. He knows
what that is. If he wants to do it, he
(14:32):
doesn't have to do anything. So I just I don't
think he needs I don't think that. I don't think
that's big of a part of the equation. All right,
So him back to not playing. You're backing on.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Find by me. Look, here's to shut down the season,
So why play anybody? Well, okay, if there are games
that mean absolutely nothing, to shut down everyone, shut down everybody, like,
I have no problem with that. If there is a
mathematic chance, as there was last year, go for it,
go for it as against the odds as it may be.
(15:05):
I have no problem. But if if you're playing out
the string and you decide we want to protect our
most important assets, I don't have any issue.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
With that at all, So shut down Jamar and t too. Yeah,
those are the most important assets.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
That everybody just says if the games mean and it
would be one thing if you're playing an opponent that's
playing for something and you could be a spoiler. That's something.
There's I get the integrity of the league sort of thing. Yeah,
but if you're playing Arizona and Cleveland the last two
weeks and the games have zero bearing on the postseason,
I have no issue with anybody who says I would
(15:37):
rather protect my most prized assets and the pieces that
give me a chance to win next year, even if
it puts a more inferior product on the field in
the short term.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, that's fine, And I think that's a one a
week eighteen conversation, right. I don't you know, I don't
know how much earlier you're gonna you're gonna get. I
do not expect saying why we're in it now. That's
because we're talking about the plan for Barack.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I do not expect them if they lose the next
two to tell Joe Burrow if he's cool, if he's
one hundred percent. I don't expect them to say, you
know what, we're three and eight, we're not gonna play
against Baltimore. That doesn't bother me at all. I would also, though,
have no issue with there's an X or a Y
or is it whatever they put next to the team
that's been eliminated and they're playing out the string, whether
(16:25):
it's Miami or Arizona Cleveland. And by the way, I
hope they beat the Pittsburgh Steelers and think they have
a chance and this becomes a moot conversation. But if
you if you play those last few games and they
have no bearing whatsoever on the postseason, I would absolutely
have no issue with the Bengals going These are our
most important assets. We are protecting them to the best
(16:47):
we can.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Remember the end of the season where Sam Hubbard was
hurt and he played. I go back to that. I
feel like they want that to be the core of
who they are, right Sam Hubbard battling through stuff. Nobody
for an absolute second would have thought twice about that
(17:10):
dude hanging it up and not playing in the final game.
That absolutely meant nothing. But I'm a captain of this team.
With my team's on the field, I'm out there with
my guys, right, That's what I am. I think that
there's value in that in terms of this is the
standard around here? Okay, we have enough problems we see
(17:33):
in this building with standards not being upheld sure, and
people not living up to certain levels of caring that
you want to see. And I feel like the same
way they held Joe Flacco with the ac join up
and said, this is it. This guy, No one would
fault him for not going out there and playing while
(17:55):
his arm's falling off. He's forty by week, come in,
but he plays right. I feel like we see this
and we see this being shown by them as far
as this is what we want to be, and who
else to show who you want to be other other
than Joe and Jamar and some of these guys. And
I understand the big picture, and there's nervousness. It's just
(18:18):
I think the value organizationally in holding people to this
standard and this is what we want to kind of
be and who we want to be known for. I
think there's I think there's value in that that can
inevitably be trumped by logic in certain situations. But I
just think there's gonna be an extremely in the other
direction when we start if we start talking about this down.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
The stretch, but we're not. We're not because you don't
need to, because they're gonna be Pittsburgh.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
It's they did just do it a few weeks ago.
So it's not like it's off the table. It's not
like they weren't one play away from having three wins
in a row and actually being in first place right now.
Like it's crazy when you think about it.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
I said on this, and I know I gotta get
a break in midweek last week, somebody after the bye
is gonna rush to the front of the line to
be the first to change the narrative and talk about
how they're going to be Pittsburgh. At three twenty two today,
I am the first in line.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Well, let's go.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
They're beating Pittsburgh on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, for many reasons, yes, I mean, and we will
discuss them. I assume I was waiting. I didn't want
to step on your little seg going to.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Beat the Pittsburgh Steelers on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah, it feels it feels very a season of plotists.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
There will be another one and then by Monday afternoon.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Here we go, Here we go, how they beat the Patriots.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
It is twenty three minutes after three o'clock. We're at
Oakley Greens. I'm drinking a coke right now.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I've yeah, I see that.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Just in case anybody thinks something sitting here all afternoon
pounding them back.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I don't know. It is a coke. It is a
straight Coca cola. Class making bold claims about this team
going on the road to beat Pittsburgh. You could have
been infused with something.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
All right, we'll talk about how bold that like. Take
maybe coming up here and just a bit. Paul Danner Junior,
Theathletic dot Com, The Growler Podcast on Twitter at Paul
Danner Junior. He's here till four, We're here till six.
Oakley Greens on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station Cincinnati's
ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center. You'll find more
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(20:40):
at dining Lane. Right now. Traffic is being directed around
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the Paddock on that Ezelic with traffic.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
This reason, Taylor versus Tumlin in the Steel City, the
Bengals look to toss the Steelers into the recycling bin.
There's a lot I can say about Pittsburgh, but none
of it can be setting the radio. The Bengals slug
it out with the Steelers someday. Coverage begins at nine am.
Stream for free on the new and improved Igheart Radio
(21:11):
app or ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the
Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Three thirty, ESPN fifteen thirty mo Igorant Oakley Greens. Paul
Beaner Junior is here from The Athletic and the Growler podcast.
This is going to be a very short segment. I
have a lot of things on my piece of paper
here that I want to talk about that seems hard
to do. I've written down some things you have written about,
like I've quoted you and I just did one. I've
got a couple from your mail bag.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I see you wrote it, you wrote it down, Yeah, no,
no printer access.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
And then actually today no, okay, I was I was
at uc between getting ready for a basketball game and
waiting for Scott Saderfield.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
So old school, loose leaf and penn, oh school, loose
leaf and pen look at you go? All right, I
appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
So some of those larger topics we're going to to
get to in the second half hour. I've visit because
we'll have more time, and then I have a request
for what happens this weekend. But since we only have
a second here. When you were last with me, we
were closing it on the trade deadline, and you were
a little antsy thinking maybe Trey Hendrickson is going to
be traded.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
He was not.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
So now the conversation advances, although it really doesn't because
time with Trey is a flat circle. Should they franchise
tag them? Will they franchise tag them?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
No? Okay, I think I think the experiment is probably
just gonna come to a merciful end. It's probably my guest.
I mean, here, do we do this all the time.
Right now, we're gonna be back and they're like, oh, well,
you know they're tagging trade and this is just not
something I see them executing, you know, And that's just
this just feels like it just goes It goes the
(22:49):
way of Trey goes off or get the cop pick.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
I'm not ready for it.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
To end. You want more?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I want I'm not ready for it to end.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, I am.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
But are the Bengals I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I mean, they still don't have any answers, right, but
they also have so many problems. It's the same flat
circle conversation. They still have so many problems. So what
are you gonna do? I mean, are you really gonna
pour the amount of money that it would take to
keep him for his older seasons when you need, like,
you need to use that money on four competent starters,
right they Trey is at this point, he's almost luxury item.
(23:28):
You need competent starters, somebody that will keep your defense
from being historically bad and compared to the Dayton triangles. Okay,
this is what you are searching for, and so if
you need competent levels starters, you need that money to
go acquire competent level starters. That's where I feel like
(23:48):
it sits. There's also a lot of decisions between now
and then to get figured out, but it feels like
the end.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Trey Hendrickson for a while now has been a part
of my daily routine where I wake up in the
morning and as I'm brushing my teeth. I go, Okay,
what are we going to say today about Trey Hendrickson.
I'm not ready for that. I can't just pull that
band aid off. That's not something you just quit cold Turkey.
You can still do that with whatever he does. If
he goes somewhere else, I'm sure he'll still be saying
and doing things over there.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I don't care. Then, Yeah, that's less interesting. I understand.
I'm saying you could. You can always think about him.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I want to talk about a sentence I did not
think I would read earlier this year. When we come
back to Oakley Greens.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Well done.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
After sports headlines on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station
where Passion mes play.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Welcome to the Ultimate Sports Showdown Tony Pike, Sincy three
sixty today at twelve noon on ESPN fifteen.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Thirty Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
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Kelsey chevro Light home of lifetime powertrain protection and guarantee
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Speaker 2 (25:29):
News Tonight, thank your not really nothing nothing A major note.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
College basketball tonight, you see host dayon both teams two
and oh tip off at seven at fifth third on
seven hundred WLW Tonight at the Young Center, Louisville hosts UK.
That game tips off at eight. You can listen to
it on ESPN fifteen thirty with pregame coverage beginning at
six pm. Also this evening, Ohio State takes on app
State and Wright State hooks up with Toledo. The Columbus
(25:57):
Blue Jackets skate on the road tonight against the Seattle
Paul Danner Junior's here from the Athletic.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
You did something that made me nervous. You just quickly,
at the last second, pulled up the story and did
a finding replace for a keyword, to go find something
specifically in there, and now I'm nervous.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
There's no reason to be nervous.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, what's it about?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So you did a mailbag? Yeah, I would like to
see the correspondence that you don't reply to? Could we do?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
There were? No, there were a lot.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Actually, could we do like a segment where I respond
to the letters or the emails? You don't?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Boy, do I have some Do I have some comments
for you? You should? You should? Actually that actually would
have been a better mail bag is just the emails
and the and the questions that I got. Yes, they
weren't questions like I got a lot that were just
like one thousand word diatribes with lots of expletives and
all caps, and I'm like, I don't know like what
(26:52):
you're asking of me here, but the answer is probably
not what you want it to be.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
You you were asked a question about the offensive line. Yeah,
and the reason I highlighted it is I didn't write
down the exact passage.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
No, that's good of you.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
So, but I knew you mentioned one of the offensive lineman.
So I did a quick search for Carris.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I could have done Rivers, I could have done Mims.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
I just did Carris.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
But you were asked a question about, hey, the offensive line,
is it like really getting better? And you acknowledged something
that I would not have thought was a possibility a
month ago. You wrote being able to confidently say Orlando Brown, Junior,
Dylan Fairchild, Ted Carris, Jalen Rivers and a Marius Mims
are the twenty twenty six opening day starters. Would be
particularly advantageous if everyone could continue this momentum that feels
(27:39):
like something that's on the table. And I would have
laughed at you six weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, and it's like, okay, you might have some stability here.
It's now I think Rivers, I don't know. Man, Like
we'll see sure. Yeah, Like he's not all the way there,
he's still out, but they've been good enough to make
this offense do what it's done. Flacco is in the
(28:05):
top five in terms of sack percentage in on the
good top five. They're protecting him. He's yeah, he's getting
the ball out fast, but they're running the ball. They're
most efficient running games and football. They're doing all these
things with those guys in there, you can say, oh, well,
you know, Flacco has gone run. You can say all
these other things, but like they've done it. And so
(28:25):
if we're gonna sit here and we're gonna rip the
offensive line when they're not doing those things, let's give
them credit here because these things that have changed with
this offense, a lot of it has come back to
things that the offensive line had to change and do better.
And that has been a large part of Jalen Rivers
and Dylan Fairchild and rising when he's been in and others.
(28:47):
But like them finding some development, some cohesion and getting
things done a lot more consistently. So I think there's
you know, there seems to be real hope there. I mean,
we talked to Dan Pitcher last week and I sort
of was asking about this and he's like, I just
I don't want it to sound at all like it
(29:08):
seems like we've arrived, because we have not. He's like,
but you know, there really are. There's just a lot
of positive things that you can build on. There's plenty
that they're working on, but there's a lot of positive
things that you're seeing now and they're just starting to
see some of the gains after that incredibly rocky start.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Well, and the key for me second year player and
two rookies. Yeah, that we're at least acknowledging. I think
it's fair to wonder, like how long in the tooth
is Orlando Brown and Ted Carris. Those are legitimate concerns.
You can't have enough offensive line and I'm sure we'll
be talking about O line depth this offseason no matter what.
But right there is what we had talked about prior
(29:46):
to the twenty twenty four draft. If you're gonna build
a good offensive line and have it be sustainable, it's
gonna have to come via the draft. And there are
some decent early returns. Yeah. I don't want to get
ahead of myself either. Yeah, but when I read that
part of your mail bag and I'm like, you know
what that's not, I didn't. I didn't WinCE when you
(30:06):
wrote that.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
So this has this has been my theory where I've
It's kind of where I've sort of started on offense
and with that conversation with the offensive line, when I've
been asked a lot about how big is this defensive rebuild?
Like it's obviously massive, I mean, but what are we
talking how many years? And my point is name me
who's not back on offense next year. Your whole offense
(30:30):
is set. Yeah, So when your whole offense is set,
you can use every pick, every dollar in free agency,
everything that you have at your disposal you can throw
at this defense. And that could be a lot of things,
and so you can you can change it all over
fairly quickly. You can throw a top ten pick in
there and a serviceable levels. That's why you don't play
(30:54):
Joe there, you go tank tank for RVL rees. I mean,
I don't yeah, I don't know, like I'm I'm just
saying the state of the offense in terms of everything
being very set for a while now, I mean all
your positions and whatever you you know, you're you're always
thinking next for the offensive line. But I mean, for
(31:17):
the most part, you can use the vast majority of
your resources in next offseason where you are top ten
in cap space, you're gonna have some picks. You can
keep throwing those at the defense and hope that you
find some that stick. I just when you don't have
to worry about really anything on offense right now, it
does open up some doors for you to make quick
(31:39):
work of a flip over.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
So you went where I was gonna go to next
because you referred to quote a multi year down to
the studs. Gut job. Yeah, when it comes to the defense, yeah,
And the way I'm thinking, the way that gets accelerated
is if I don't have to devote as much, well,
you know, with them, it's an issue of time, because
we saw that with Chason Higgins. Devoted all the time
to those dudes and then couldn't sign anybody in free agency.
(32:01):
But if you want to hasten what looks like a
very very very substantial rebuild on defense, the easiest way
to do that is to be set on the other
side of the ball. Yeah, and if that offensive line
continues its current trajectory, that might.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Be the case. I mean, it's like everything though, it
all comes back to the young players getting better. Is
how many years there are on this defensive rebuild, and
that would include the guards. If Jalen Rivers falls off
the second half of this season and you're like, oh,
we still got an issue there that we got to
figure out, or you know, you start to be like, well,
we've got to find a tackle of the future in
(32:38):
case we're not in Orlando Brown. Unless you start to
worry more about that or and the same way that
Shamar Stewart and Demitrius Knight and Barrett Carter if they
just don't show any progress over the second half of
this season. Yeah, it extends the length of how far
this rebuild must go. You want more, you know, if
we're going down to the studs, I'd like for there
(32:59):
to be more than one stud Yeah, you know, like
I need more than one thing to build on. If
I could, if you could get a couple more guys
that you feel like over the second half of this season,
you're like, can build around that that that I put
that with with Turner and one other thing and okay,
now filling all the rest, then it doesn't feel as
(33:21):
far off. I don't think that. I mean, you know,
a lot things happen quick in the NFL, but like
the idea of them rebuilding and being some sort of
top ten unit next year feels crazy. But you can
I think that I'll take I'll take top thirty. How
about how about only comparing it to teams that are
bad this year and not from the sixties. If we
(33:43):
can get to that, I think the way you can
turn things over in the NFL, I mean the heck
much less we talk about in college football, like the
way you can turn it over fast. If you make
the right moves, you can get to a mid level.
You can you can put serviceable pieces in there if
you can find a few things to build around. If
you can't, then you know you're you're gonna keep doing
this searching for young players and living with growing pain,
(34:06):
stuff that they've kind of been doing this year.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
One thing they could do, and you reference this, is
go ahead and get a jump start on getting DJ
Turner locked in long term.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
I think it's an interesting uh test. Yeah, two, are
you doing the same thing? We're gonna keep doing the
same thing that gots you in this spot? Are you
gonna wait or are you going to say, Hey, here's
a chance for a philosophy switch, Tom. Let's start building
around something right. Here's this guy who earned it and
(34:39):
is doing it the right way and played himself into
one of the best cornerbacks uh in the game this year.
Let's build around him. Let's pay him extension eligible now
for the first time, Let's pay him. Let's get ahead
of the market, and let's let's let's show that we're
trying something new. Or or you're or you're gonna say
(34:59):
I want to see another year of health and the
same level of play. Go do it again? Right? And
then and then you're talking about Okay, you're, you're, but
at some point then he's is he gonna hit free agency?
Are you gonna what do you can do this? Although?
Are you gonna go back? We're gonna franchise tag DJ Turner? Uh?
Is he gonna request a trade? And then and then
you have then you can talk about DJ Turner. He'll
(35:21):
be the next to the line, right, Yeah, we had
we had Jesse Bates. Of course we have had Trey
Hendrickson Higgins, and maybe DJ Turner will be next for
you and you can wake up thinking about him every
day and what he's got going on.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
I want to wake up and read your gamer and
I know you don't at the Athletic don't write you know,
traditional gamers or watch the walkout. Yeah, and after the
Bengals have beaten the Pittsburgh Steelers, I want to either
read or hear or both references to how as was
predicted on this show.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Mo had it first, Mo had it first. You were
the first one in the Yes, not afraid to say it.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
The offense is cooking. They're coming off a bye. The
Steelers are not intimidating. No, Mike Tomlin's getting mad at
reporters for asking legit questions about his quarterbacks. Quarterbacks like
one hundred years old. They've beaten them already recently. They
should go to Pittsburgh and win.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yes, I think this is one hundred percent a game
that you should expect this team to win. I mean
they are when you have the offense playing. One thing
that that teams run into when they play the Steelers
is if you're just not familiar with the style of
game you have to play against them. It's different like teams.
Teams get wrapped up in that. I think that happened
(36:37):
to the Colts. Yeah, I think that happened to the
Colts a little bit.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
But I don't think they played that style here. I
don't think they've played it against the Bengals.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Don't the Chargers. The Bengals don't play into it. I
think the Chargers knew what they were doing with it, right,
and you know what are they I mean, who's the
corner opposite Porter right now? Is going to be Pierce
and they're moving Jalen Ramsey to safety, right, they are searching, okay,
and if you know, I think the one thing you
(37:06):
could say is okay, all right, young defense.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yeah, you just saw this a few weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
You know what they're gonna do. Let's let's go through
this again. Let's try this a second time. It could
be a good test for this defense in regards of
can you start learning from your mistakes? Here's literally the
same mistakes and the same people you just did this
against the week before. Can can you just find a
way to clean those up a little bit? You're gonna
see the same players and the same plays, the same
(37:32):
stuff here. Can you be a little bit better? Whereas
I don't I have thoughts that maybe that could happen.
I don't have many thoughts that the Steelers are all
of a sudden just gonna like shut down this offense.
I just think the offense is in too good of
a place right now, and the matchup is, you know,
too nice for what the Bengals want to do. And
how quickly Flacco is getting the ball out.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
You you can reference it even if I'm not right.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, go ahead. No, most said first they were gonna win,
and then they lost by twenty eight, right, and then
we can use it to talk about you.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
But fine by me. It's okay. But somebody was gonna
be for there will be others by Friday. Everybody is
gonna have the Bengals win. In fact, it's then I
may do it a heel turn to go. Actually, nah,
they're not gonna beat the Steelers. Somebody was gonna be first.
What is it about the Steelers that makes that crazy?
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Though? Is the only thing? I mean to me, that's it.
It's it's you had their game against the Colts, which
just seemed like a weird thing. Otherwise, I mean, look
at the team that the Steelers have been, even.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Even when they have won games earlier in the season,
they were not imposing that indye, win is a very
good wine. The Colts, I think, are really good. But
there's the brand and there's what you've come to expect.
And look, the Bengals have all sorts of defensive issues,
and so they may give up forty two points to
know what he would be surprised. I don't think there's
anything scary about the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Certainly not a few. I mean, when you just experienced
this a few weeks ago, and they're you know, their
their offense is not scary. Their offense is whatever Dk
Metcalf is gonna be able to get for them in
very little else Sometimes they run the ball and defensively
they're kind of a mess, and and they're either turnovers
or bust. They either get turnovers and find a way
(39:14):
to win or they don't when they lose. That's been
the case pretty much across the board. That's how they
beat Indianapolis. I mean Daniel Jones with all those turnovers
in that game, and so the one that's the one
thing Flacco has been good at. That's what they've They've
found a way to protect the ball, manage the game,
get the ball out quick, don't let t J. Watt
and Keanu Benton and Cam Hayward and all those guys
(39:36):
tear you up. And you know, the the recipe is there.
They just at some point mo in the fourth quarter
are gonna need to go out there and get a stop.
And that's probably where nol God has been working on.
What got misconstrued was you thought they were just saving
(39:57):
all the stuff and hiding everything in the preseason. What
he actually meant was through the first half too, and
then after the bye week, just unleash on the league.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Can I tell you what I think the most annoying
thing about the Steelers is right now? It's their special
teams coach. Oh yeah, that guy.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Chewing the gummy.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
He gets more TV time than any special teams coach
in the league. Chris Collins weren't done talk about special
teams coaches. I'm watching the game. You would think the
guy like invented kicking. He's been there a long time.
I'm sure he's a nice guy. There's no other team
where you see the special teams coach as much as
you do when you watch.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
The Steelers, unless you have one of these like big
special teams coaches that likes to run the field with
his team. Yeah, jump in the air and do all
kinds of crazy stuff. Sometimes you get that guy, that
crazy guy.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
But this guy back in the day, the Cowboys had
a special teams coach because he had like Jesus hair,
so you kind of noticed him. Other than that, you
don't notice special teams coaches until the Steelers play. They
don't stop showing that guy, Like, bro, you're a special
teams coach.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Let's put an over undrawn number of cutaways for our
guy on Sunday nine and a half, count them up
nine and a half? Think I think under Night under nine.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Well, the Bengals win by more points than cutaways to
the special teams code.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Oh wow, you heard it here first.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Thank you as always Reed Paul's work The Athletic dot Com.
Listen to the podcast or watch the podcast The Growlar
Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Pat noon and joins
us Next word Oakley Queen's This is ZESPN fifteen.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
Thirty, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic from the UC Health
Traffic Center. You'll find more options and clinical trials for
pancreatic cancer care at the UC Cancer Center. Get a
second opinion Fast Call five one three five eighty five
U SECC northbound seventy five after Town Street. The left
(41:49):
lane blocked from an accident looking at about a fifteen
minutes to laid back from Mitchell westbound on three rivers
Parkways still got that accident at Dining Lane with traffic
being directed around the area, and Cole Raine an accident
at hoppole I met Ezelic with traffic
Enter this nation.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Y keyword on our website, grant, that's grand. Enter it now.
Bengals Nation lives here.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
That's right, it's a three minutes after three o'clock. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty one.
Speaker 4 (00:16):
ED.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
We are posting up inside at Oakley Greens, which is
an awesome place to watch college basketball, which you can
do tonight. You got UC versus Dayton, you got Kentucky
versus Louisville. You could watch those games here at Oakley Greens.
You can watch any college basketball game you wanted Oakley Greens.
They are fully decorated for the holiday season. They even
(00:41):
have some of the TVs right now. They got like
a fake fireplace, which just it doesn't really bring any heat,
but it just makes me feel warmer. We love the
folks at Oakley Greens. We are here every single Tuesday.
Great place to watch Bengals games. Bengals Steelers on Sunday,
FC Cincinnati a week from Sunday as the Orange and
Blue plays in the Eastern Conference semi finals. Awesome for
(01:03):
your holiday parties, Awesome for us every single Tuesday, especially
when Paul Danner juniors here as he is for the
three o'clock hour from the Athletic dot Com and the
Growler Podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
How are we doing? I'm doing great. You know, the
Oakley Greens has enough space that you could have a
separate cheering section tonight. Yes, for your your Dayton people
and your Cincinnati people. Keep them, keep them separated, you know,
much like we need between you guys here.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Cat fans and Dayton fans. We're not talking about a
bunch of ruffians.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Ok.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
These are nice people who can live with somebody else
rooting against their team. There's no reason to keep everybody separate.
You talk about the two kindest, most understanding fan bases,
Cincinnati and Dayton.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah. Sure, And I just say that if you want
to sit in separate, there's plenty of space to do, yes,
so you don't have to worry about being like next
to the guy who's rooting a little too hard and
a little too in your face about a team. I'm
not saying it would be these two lovely fan bases
of no, of course not. But it does happen with
sports Kentucky and Louisville right now. Excepate I would need
(02:12):
separate buildings.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Well, you could put them all in here and and
and sort of just work your way among all the
use and Dayton fans tonight and you'll be good to go.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Absolutely plenty of plenty of good games.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
It's awesome to have you. Not a lot going on
in the Monday after the bye week. I really thought
we'd get a nice call Monday. I think, you know
what coming out of.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
The by it's it's what's gonna happen today? You know,
let's just let's just ease into the week, and then
no easing into the week this week. That's okay, though,
I'll take a distraction from the topics that we have
been hammering home. So at least for a few minutes,
it felt like we could be like, oh hey, a
(02:52):
nice thing. So that's kind of how I was for
a few minutes, and then immediately brought back down to earth, realizing, yeah,
it doesn't really.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I never would have thought that Joe Burrow announcing his
pseudo return and offering a timeline earlier than anybody expected,
would have listened a shoulder shrug. And yet that's where
a lot of us were yesterday. That's where I ended up.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I mean, I think it's I mean, I think what
Joe is doing is again I sort of wrote about it.
It's like, hey, Joe's doing the hero stuff again, Like
this is unbelievable. He does this all the time, and
he always it's it's always unbelievable, and people understandably rally
around it, and it can it can pull a whole
(03:36):
organization along with him when he when he does these
types of things. The problem inevitably is though, Like to me,
my take on yesterday was that the Joe Burrow return
news was not the biggest news to come out of yesterday. No,
the biggest news to come out of yesterday was already
Trey Hendrickson is doubtful for this weekend. That's who they need.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
That's the hero they need right now is number ninety one.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yes, they they have the I'm not everybody wants to
take this the wrong way when I say this, they
already have. Over the last month since Joe Flacco arrived
at Cincinnati, the number one offense in football by Epapril play,
they've scored thirty eight. They scored eighty and two weeks
thirty three. Like the offense is just not the problem.
They need something otherwise, You're back in the same situation
(04:24):
when we were in last year, when Burrow was playing
right at at the level he was, So, yeah, it's cool, Yes,
I Burrows better than Flacco. I shouldn't have to say that,
but like you do, and it's fine, like, yeah, yes,
obviously that would be good. This is a good development.
But it doesn't change the point of the twenty twenty
five season is that this it doesn't matter if they
(04:46):
can't find somebody or some way to get a stop.
The only hope was that maybe Trey Hendrick saying can
get healthy and be the one to come back and
give you that stop that you need. And now he's
already viewed as doubt which they're not even not even
playing the fake game, you know, the game where we
do the like I don't know, we'll see you're gonna
(05:07):
get him through the week now Wednesday, Yeah, no, doubtful.
And so we're just all ready to that point in
a game where, let's be honest, they're gonna need them.
They're gonna get into the fourth quarter in Pittsburgh, it's
gonna be close or something like that, and you're gonna say, oh,
they just need third and eight, just need one guy.
To get back there, and nobody will the.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Pittsburgh game last year, the game, yeah, or or a
few weeks ago, you know, before the very end where
every game ever for the last two years, it feels
like when he's not out there, So yeah, to me,
it's great, and we can talk all about the borough contingencies,
but they don't really matter because even Burrow at his best,
(05:46):
as we learned last year, can't counter what's happening on
the other side of the football.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And that's sort of the sad thing. Like I Bengals
fans sent me the Lieutenant Dan on New Year's meme
that I feel like that's just how it feels. It's
like everyone should kind of be celebrating, but the one
that knows it's like, yeah, I know, but I'm still
sad because the reality is that this is your life
right now.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
So we were doing the show yesterday, the Tony and
Mo Football Show, and I was driving to go do it,
and I thought like I should be stoked, like I
should feel like, all right, game on, just in the
nick of time, the season can be saved. And I
felt at two o'clock yesterday afternoon the same way that
I felt at nine o'clock yesterday morning, before I saw
(06:31):
that Joe Burrow was coming back in practice. Yeah, Joe
Burrow's return should not not move the meter the way
it did.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, well, you know, we shouldn't be talking about the
nineteen sixty six New York Giants or the nineteen twenty
one Takawanda Whatever's like. I mean, this is where this
is just the part of the issue. I mean, this
is part of everything right now, is there's a hopelessness
because you don't see answers that can really help you
(07:00):
right now. But yeah, I mean, it's exciting. It'd be
cool to see Burrow come back and be that guy again.
And I think that there's a juice that you can
get from that in a locker room. Yeah, you know,
but I don't know that that goes, you know, all
that far when you have so much to overcome.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
So I think for a lot of us, the discussion
has become about the value in Burrow playing if the
losing continues. So he's not gonna play on Sunday. I
certainly think they have more than a puncher's chance to
beat the Pittsburgh Steelers, but you know, they are underdogs
on the road. They've won one of their last seven,
so you certainly don't assume victory. It's completely plausible to
(07:42):
think that they will lose the next two games against
Pittsburgh and home for New England. At that point, they're
three to eight and maybe not mathematically out of it.
But what is already a long shot becomes even longer,
and then so for a lot of us, there's then
no value in Joe playing. You wrote this quote, even
if out of it, Even if they're out of it,
don't expect Burrow to stand down in his desire to
(08:05):
get back under center. So he's playing no matter what,
when when he's cleared, when he when he finally feels
right close to one hundred percent, at least, he's playing
no matter what.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, I think so, I think his sense is when
I'm healthy, I'm the quarterback and I'm here to play.
I mean, this goes back to last year at four
and eight. We're gonna find out who is this you
know we're going to go forward with on this team,
and that all this stuff matters.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
I can help answer that question for this year right now.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I know DJ Turner, yes, yes, but I yeah, I
feel like it goes back to that idea that this
is not to me, this is not gonna be Yeah,
you're impacted by wins and losses, somebody. This is gonna
be about what the doctor says, is there is there
(08:53):
a risk here of reinjury. You know, if you had
surgery and you're all the way back and cleared and
you're doing and there's not not really any risk of
re injury, then if he wants to then you should
play like I mean, this is I get like shelving him,
but if this is not about reinjury, he's a quarterback, Yeah,
(09:13):
like he wants to play football, he should play football.
There's there's value in it. Playing out the string or
not playing out the string. I mean, no one would
have thought at all they would have had a chance
to get back into it at four and eight last
year and they ripped off a bunch of wins and
did find a way. Like to me, I understand the
desire to be like it's over, man, like, just don't
(09:34):
go hurt yourself that right, Joe Burrow didn't get to
this point with that attitude. That's not who he is, right,
And it's not who he is as a person, as
a player and he's gonna want to play, and I
don't think anybody should tell him not to if he's
healthy and there's no extra chance of re injury associated
with this, and that's that's for the doctors to say
(09:57):
at that point in time.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Even if we get to a point where they are
mathematically eliminated.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I think so. I mean, again, if he's healthy, what's
holding him back? I mean other than than should you
shut him down every time we how many times we
watch this guy in the fourth quarter of a game
where they were down by thirty, Yeah, taking zero blitzes
in the face, didn't want to come out, not going
to come out in respect. That not who I am.
(10:25):
I need this team. This is my team met no
matter what out of it, in it, whatever, If he's healthy,
that's you know, that's what they want to be. It's
what they want this team to be. They want this
team to be people that don't quit, that are like, look,
we're in it. We're with as long as we can
(10:46):
go out there and play. And again the risk situation,
but as long as that's not an issue, then go
play football. And I think that everybody, as long as
the doctors are on board with that, would be on
board with that.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I understand.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I understand why fans like I don't want to see
him every no play when it doesn't matter. But that's
just that's not what's gonna help build this team back better.
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
To me, it's kind of like the preseason. It sounds
great on Tuesday afternoon, Hey, Joe should play in the preseason,
and then I watch those preseason games and it's like, uh, man,
just make this end. Please, for the love of God,
what are we doing. These games have no value. Get
him out there. Get him out of there.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Like it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
It sounds great, Joe's gonna play, and you admire it.
And he's a football player, and he's a quarterback and
he's gonna play football, and he's gonna play quarterback, and
that's what you want, and it is what you want
until I'm watching him against the Arizona Cardinals in Week
seventeen in a game that means nothing, and I'm watching
dude's tee off on him so the Bengals can get
win number six or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I don't know, man, I understand. Yeah, I don't know.
I understand. But my point is, if if we're saying
that the toe doesn't.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
It's not so much about the toe, it's about well,
the other way is me is.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Needs to move.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I understand, point to a place on his body to.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Send send a sacrificial Flacco out there the rest of
the year.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Joey having fun. Yeah, go out there and do what
you gotta do. I understand that. Said, I do believe
there is probably if you are on the side of
the fan base that says they have to change how
Joe Burrow plays because of the risk he is under
when he plays the way he does, the way the
offense is functioned with Joe Flacco as quarterback. I can
(12:37):
certainly understand someone saying, well, the best way to do
that is to have Joe Burrow play and play in
a somewhat newly restructured offense, regardless of how much meaning
the games actually have.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, yes, I mean I think there's something to be
said for that. Joe not exactly interested in that storyline yesterday, No,
not at all.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
You know, I mean I thought that to me was
that was my big takeaway from yesterday, Like.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, it wasn't gonna go there. It wasn't really like
interested in that in that thought, which is fine. And
guy Yeah, I mean I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're
here for it. But I mean it's yeah, I I
I understand what you're saying. I just I keep going.
I keep going back to, you know, organizationally, the same
(13:25):
thing we talked about around the trade deadline. M h.
They're not gonna wave the fly. They're not gonna want
it ever to look like there's a game where they're
out there and not doing everything they can to win
as an organization, as the way they just operate. And
I think that could involve Joe Burrow and you know,
if if it's like Joe's good to go, He's it's
all good, go go play, Go play football, and go
(13:48):
play the way that maybe it is using just playing
us the safer, get the ball out faster portion of it.
It's just understanding there's no need to go taking crazy
risks in this game, but go play. Yeah, maybe that
is part of it. Maybe that teaches them something, and
maybe that's connected to the Flacco stuff, Like I don't know,
that's probably minimal in my mind in terms of that.
(14:11):
I think you've got a lot of time to deal
with that. He knows how to play quarterback like that
is a conscious that is not something where he needs
to get reps at it. That's a conscious decision of
I'm gonna get the ball out, you know, a higher
percentage of the time and do less of the trying
to do crazy playmaking unless I have to. He knows
what that is. If he wants to do it, he
(14:32):
doesn't have to do anything. So I just I don't
think he needs I don't think that. I don't think
that's big of a part of the equation. All right,
So him back to not playing. You're backing on.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Find by me. Look, here's to shut down the season,
So why play anybody? Well, okay, if there are games
that mean absolutely nothing, to shut down everyone, shut down everybody, like,
I have no problem with that. If there is a
mathematic chance, as there was last year, go for it,
go for it as against the odds as it may be.
(15:05):
I have no problem. But if if you're playing out
the string and you decide we want to protect our
most important assets, I don't have any issue.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
With that at all, So shut down Jamar and t too. Yeah,
those are the most important assets.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
That everybody just says if the games mean and it
would be one thing if you're playing an opponent that's
playing for something and you could be a spoiler. That's something.
There's I get the integrity of the league sort of thing. Yeah,
but if you're playing Arizona and Cleveland the last two
weeks and the games have zero bearing on the postseason,
I have no issue with anybody who says I would
(15:37):
rather protect my most prized assets and the pieces that
give me a chance to win next year, even if
it puts a more inferior product on the field in
the short term.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, that's fine, And I think that's a one a
week eighteen conversation, right. I don't you know, I don't
know how much earlier you're gonna you're gonna get. I
do not expect saying why we're in it now. That's
because we're talking about the plan for Barack.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I do not expect them if they lose the next
two to tell Joe Burrow if he's cool, if he's
one hundred percent. I don't expect them to say, you
know what, we're three and eight, we're not gonna play
against Baltimore. That doesn't bother me at all. I would also, though,
have no issue with there's an X or a Y
or is it whatever they put next to the team
that's been eliminated and they're playing out the string, whether
(16:25):
it's Miami or Arizona Cleveland. And by the way, I
hope they beat the Pittsburgh Steelers and think they have
a chance and this becomes a moot conversation. But if
you if you play those last few games and they
have no bearing whatsoever on the postseason, I would absolutely
have no issue with the Bengals going These are our
most important assets. We are protecting them to the best
(16:47):
we can.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Remember the end of the season where Sam Hubbard was
hurt and he played. I go back to that. I
feel like they want that to be the core of
who they are, right Sam Hubbard battling through stuff. Nobody
for an absolute second would have thought twice about that
(17:10):
dude hanging it up and not playing in the final game.
That absolutely meant nothing. But I'm a captain of this team.
With my team's on the field, I'm out there with
my guys, right, That's what I am. I think that
there's value in that in terms of this is the
standard around here? Okay, we have enough problems we see
(17:33):
in this building with standards not being upheld sure, and
people not living up to certain levels of caring that
you want to see. And I feel like the same
way they held Joe Flacco with the ac join up
and said, this is it. This guy, No one would
fault him for not going out there and playing while
(17:55):
his arm's falling off. He's forty by week, come in,
but he plays right. I feel like we see this
and we see this being shown by them as far
as this is what we want to be, and who
else to show who you want to be other other
than Joe and Jamar and some of these guys. And
I understand the big picture, and there's nervousness. It's just
(18:18):
I think the value organizationally in holding people to this
standard and this is what we want to kind of
be and who we want to be known for. I
think there's I think there's value in that that can
inevitably be trumped by logic in certain situations. But I
just think there's gonna be an extremely in the other
direction when we start if we start talking about this down.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
The stretch, but we're not. We're not because you don't
need to, because they're gonna be Pittsburgh.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
It's they did just do it a few weeks ago.
So it's not like it's off the table. It's not
like they weren't one play away from having three wins
in a row and actually being in first place right now.
Like it's crazy when you think about it.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
I said on this, and I know I gotta get
a break in midweek last week, somebody after the bye
is gonna rush to the front of the line to
be the first to change the narrative and talk about
how they're going to be Pittsburgh. At three twenty two today,
I am the first in line.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Well, let's go.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
They're beating Pittsburgh on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, for many reasons, yes, I mean, and we will
discuss them. I assume I was waiting. I didn't want
to step on your little seg going to.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Beat the Pittsburgh Steelers on Sunday.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah, it feels it feels very a season of plotists.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
There will be another one and then by Monday afternoon.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Here we go, Here we go, how they beat the Patriots.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
It is twenty three minutes after three o'clock. We're at
Oakley Greens. I'm drinking a coke right now.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I've yeah, I see that.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Just in case anybody thinks something sitting here all afternoon
pounding them back.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I don't know. It is a coke. It is a
straight Coca cola. Class making bold claims about this team
going on the road to beat Pittsburgh. You could have
been infused with something.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
All right, we'll talk about how bold that like. Take
maybe coming up here and just a bit. Paul Danner Junior,
Theathletic dot Com, The Growler Podcast on Twitter at Paul
Danner Junior. He's here till four, We're here till six.
Oakley Greens on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station Cincinnati's
ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center. You'll find more
options and clinical trials for pancreatic cancer care at the
UC Cancer Center. Get a second opinion, Fast call five
one three five eighty five UCCC On southbound seventy five
at seventh Street. It's an accident that's off onto the
right shoulder. Also an accident westbound on three Rivers Parkway
(20:40):
at dining Lane. Right now. Traffic is being directed around
that area and some slow traffic northbound seventy five. Mitchell
the Paddock on that Ezelic with traffic.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
This reason, Taylor versus Tumlin in the Steel City, the
Bengals look to toss the Steelers into the recycling bin.
There's a lot I can say about Pittsburgh, but none
of it can be setting the radio. The Bengals slug
it out with the Steelers someday. Coverage begins at nine am.
Stream for free on the new and improved Igheart Radio
(21:11):
app or ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the
Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Three thirty, ESPN fifteen thirty mo Igorant Oakley Greens. Paul
Beaner Junior is here from The Athletic and the Growler podcast.
This is going to be a very short segment. I
have a lot of things on my piece of paper
here that I want to talk about that seems hard
to do. I've written down some things you have written about,
like I've quoted you and I just did one. I've
got a couple from your mail bag.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I see you wrote it, you wrote it down, Yeah, no,
no printer access.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
And then actually today no, okay, I was I was
at uc between getting ready for a basketball game and
waiting for Scott Saderfield.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
So old school, loose leaf and penn, oh school, loose
leaf and pen look at you go? All right, I
appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
So some of those larger topics we're going to to
get to in the second half hour. I've visit because
we'll have more time, and then I have a request
for what happens this weekend. But since we only have
a second here. When you were last with me, we
were closing it on the trade deadline, and you were
a little antsy thinking maybe Trey Hendrickson is going to
be traded.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
He was not.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
So now the conversation advances, although it really doesn't because
time with Trey is a flat circle. Should they franchise
tag them? Will they franchise tag them?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
No? Okay, I think I think the experiment is probably
just gonna come to a merciful end. It's probably my guest.
I mean, here, do we do this all the time.
Right now, we're gonna be back and they're like, oh, well,
you know they're tagging trade and this is just not
something I see them executing, you know, And that's just
this just feels like it just goes It goes the
(22:49):
way of Trey goes off or get the cop pick.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
I'm not ready for it.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
To end. You want more?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
I want I'm not ready for it to end.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, I am.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
But are the Bengals I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I mean, they still don't have any answers, right, but
they also have so many problems. It's the same flat
circle conversation. They still have so many problems. So what
are you gonna do? I mean, are you really gonna
pour the amount of money that it would take to
keep him for his older seasons when you need, like,
you need to use that money on four competent starters,
right they Trey is at this point, he's almost luxury item.
(23:28):
You need competent starters, somebody that will keep your defense
from being historically bad and compared to the Dayton triangles. Okay,
this is what you are searching for, and so if
you need competent levels starters, you need that money to
go acquire competent level starters. That's where I feel like
(23:48):
it sits. There's also a lot of decisions between now
and then to get figured out, but it feels like
the end.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Trey Hendrickson for a while now has been a part
of my daily routine where I wake up in the
morning and as I'm brushing my teeth. I go, Okay,
what are we going to say today about Trey Hendrickson.
I'm not ready for that. I can't just pull that
band aid off. That's not something you just quit cold Turkey.
You can still do that with whatever he does. If
he goes somewhere else, I'm sure he'll still be saying
and doing things over there.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I don't care. Then, Yeah, that's less interesting. I understand.
I'm saying you could. You can always think about him.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I want to talk about a sentence I did not
think I would read earlier this year. When we come
back to Oakley Greens.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Well done.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
After sports headlines on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station
where Passion mes play.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Welcome to the Ultimate Sports Showdown Tony Pike, Sincy three
sixty today at twelve noon on ESPN fifteen.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Thirty Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center. You'll find more
options and clinical trials for pancreatic cancer care at the
UC Cancer Center. Get a second opinion Fast call five
one three five eighty five U SECC on southbound seventy
five at seventh Street. It's an accident that's off onto
the right shoulder. Also an accident westbound on three Rivers
(25:08):
Parkway at dining Lane right now traffic is being directed
around that area and some slow traffic northbound seventy five
Mitchell the Paddock. I'm at ezelic with traffic this report.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Kelsey chevro Light home of lifetime powertrain protection and guarantee
credit approval from their family to yours for life, Kelsey
chev dot Any Bengels.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
News Tonight, thank your not really nothing nothing A major note.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
College basketball tonight, you see host dayon both teams two
and oh tip off at seven at fifth third on
seven hundred WLW Tonight at the Young Center, Louisville hosts UK.
That game tips off at eight. You can listen to
it on ESPN fifteen thirty with pregame coverage beginning at
six pm. Also this evening, Ohio State takes on app
State and Wright State hooks up with Toledo. The Columbus
(25:57):
Blue Jackets skate on the road tonight against the Seattle
Paul Danner Junior's here from the Athletic.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
You did something that made me nervous. You just quickly,
at the last second, pulled up the story and did
a finding replace for a keyword, to go find something
specifically in there, and now I'm nervous.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
There's no reason to be nervous.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, what's it about?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So you did a mailbag? Yeah, I would like to
see the correspondence that you don't reply to? Could we do?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
There were? No, there were a lot.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Actually, could we do like a segment where I respond
to the letters or the emails? You don't?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Boy, do I have some Do I have some comments
for you? You should? You should? Actually that actually would
have been a better mail bag is just the emails
and the and the questions that I got. Yes, they
weren't questions like I got a lot that were just
like one thousand word diatribes with lots of expletives and
all caps, and I'm like, I don't know like what
(26:52):
you're asking of me here, but the answer is probably
not what you want it to be.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
You you were asked a question about the offensive line. Yeah,
and the reason I highlighted it is I didn't write
down the exact passage.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
No, that's good of you.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
So, but I knew you mentioned one of the offensive lineman.
So I did a quick search for Carris.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I could have done Rivers, I could have done Mims.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
I just did Carris.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
But you were asked a question about, hey, the offensive line,
is it like really getting better? And you acknowledged something
that I would not have thought was a possibility a
month ago. You wrote being able to confidently say Orlando Brown, Junior,
Dylan Fairchild, Ted Carris, Jalen Rivers and a Marius Mims
are the twenty twenty six opening day starters. Would be
particularly advantageous if everyone could continue this momentum that feels
(27:39):
like something that's on the table. And I would have
laughed at you six weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, and it's like, okay, you might have some stability here.
It's now I think Rivers, I don't know. Man, Like
we'll see sure. Yeah, Like he's not all the way there,
he's still out, but they've been good enough to make
this offense do what it's done. Flacco is in the
(28:05):
top five in terms of sack percentage in on the
good top five. They're protecting him. He's yeah, he's getting
the ball out fast, but they're running the ball. They're
most efficient running games and football. They're doing all these
things with those guys in there, you can say, oh, well,
you know, Flacco has gone run. You can say all
these other things, but like they've done it. And so
(28:25):
if we're gonna sit here and we're gonna rip the
offensive line when they're not doing those things, let's give
them credit here because these things that have changed with
this offense, a lot of it has come back to
things that the offensive line had to change and do better.
And that has been a large part of Jalen Rivers
and Dylan Fairchild and rising when he's been in and others.
(28:47):
But like them finding some development, some cohesion and getting
things done a lot more consistently. So I think there's
you know, there seems to be real hope there. I mean,
we talked to Dan Pitcher last week and I sort
of was asking about this and he's like, I just
I don't want it to sound at all like it
(29:08):
seems like we've arrived, because we have not. He's like,
but you know, there really are. There's just a lot
of positive things that you can build on. There's plenty
that they're working on, but there's a lot of positive
things that you're seeing now and they're just starting to
see some of the gains after that incredibly rocky start.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Well, and the key for me second year player and
two rookies. Yeah, that we're at least acknowledging. I think
it's fair to wonder, like how long in the tooth
is Orlando Brown and Ted Carris. Those are legitimate concerns.
You can't have enough offensive line and I'm sure we'll
be talking about O line depth this offseason no matter what.
But right there is what we had talked about prior
(29:46):
to the twenty twenty four draft. If you're gonna build
a good offensive line and have it be sustainable, it's
gonna have to come via the draft. And there are
some decent early returns. Yeah. I don't want to get
ahead of myself either. Yeah, but when I read that
part of your mail bag and I'm like, you know
what that's not, I didn't. I didn't WinCE when you
(30:06):
wrote that.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
So this has this has been my theory where I've
It's kind of where I've sort of started on offense
and with that conversation with the offensive line, when I've
been asked a lot about how big is this defensive rebuild?
Like it's obviously massive, I mean, but what are we
talking how many years? And my point is name me
who's not back on offense next year. Your whole offense
(30:30):
is set. Yeah, So when your whole offense is set,
you can use every pick, every dollar in free agency,
everything that you have at your disposal you can throw
at this defense. And that could be a lot of things,
and so you can you can change it all over
fairly quickly. You can throw a top ten pick in
there and a serviceable levels. That's why you don't play
(30:54):
Joe there, you go tank tank for RVL rees. I mean,
I don't yeah, I don't know, like I'm I'm just
saying the state of the offense in terms of everything
being very set for a while now, I mean all
your positions and whatever you you know, you're you're always
thinking next for the offensive line. But I mean, for
(31:17):
the most part, you can use the vast majority of
your resources in next offseason where you are top ten
in cap space, you're gonna have some picks. You can
keep throwing those at the defense and hope that you
find some that stick. I just when you don't have
to worry about really anything on offense right now, it
does open up some doors for you to make quick
(31:39):
work of a flip over.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
So you went where I was gonna go to next
because you referred to quote a multi year down to
the studs. Gut job. Yeah, when it comes to the defense, yeah,
And the way I'm thinking, the way that gets accelerated
is if I don't have to devote as much, well,
you know, with them, it's an issue of time, because
we saw that with Chason Higgins. Devoted all the time
to those dudes and then couldn't sign anybody in free agency.
(32:01):
But if you want to hasten what looks like a
very very very substantial rebuild on defense, the easiest way
to do that is to be set on the other
side of the ball. Yeah, and if that offensive line
continues its current trajectory, that might.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Be the case. I mean, it's like everything though, it
all comes back to the young players getting better. Is
how many years there are on this defensive rebuild, and
that would include the guards. If Jalen Rivers falls off
the second half of this season and you're like, oh,
we still got an issue there that we got to
figure out, or you know, you start to be like, well,
we've got to find a tackle of the future in
(32:38):
case we're not in Orlando Brown. Unless you start to
worry more about that or and the same way that
Shamar Stewart and Demitrius Knight and Barrett Carter if they
just don't show any progress over the second half of
this season. Yeah, it extends the length of how far
this rebuild must go. You want more, you know, if
we're going down to the studs, I'd like for there
(32:59):
to be more than one stud Yeah, you know, like
I need more than one thing to build on. If
I could, if you could get a couple more guys
that you feel like over the second half of this season,
you're like, can build around that that that I put
that with with Turner and one other thing and okay,
now filling all the rest, then it doesn't feel as
(33:21):
far off. I don't think that. I mean, you know,
a lot things happen quick in the NFL, but like
the idea of them rebuilding and being some sort of
top ten unit next year feels crazy. But you can
I think that I'll take I'll take top thirty. How
about how about only comparing it to teams that are
bad this year and not from the sixties. If we
(33:43):
can get to that, I think the way you can
turn things over in the NFL, I mean the heck
much less we talk about in college football, like the
way you can turn it over fast. If you make
the right moves, you can get to a mid level.
You can you can put serviceable pieces in there if
you can find a few things to build around. If
you can't, then you know you're you're gonna keep doing
this searching for young players and living with growing pain,
(34:06):
stuff that they've kind of been doing this year.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
One thing they could do, and you reference this, is
go ahead and get a jump start on getting DJ
Turner locked in long term.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
I think it's an interesting uh test. Yeah, two, are
you doing the same thing? We're gonna keep doing the
same thing that gots you in this spot? Are you
gonna wait or are you going to say, Hey, here's
a chance for a philosophy switch, Tom. Let's start building
around something right. Here's this guy who earned it and
(34:39):
is doing it the right way and played himself into
one of the best cornerbacks uh in the game this year.
Let's build around him. Let's pay him extension eligible now
for the first time, Let's pay him. Let's get ahead
of the market, and let's let's let's show that we're
trying something new. Or or you're or you're gonna say
(34:59):
I want to see another year of health and the
same level of play. Go do it again? Right? And
then and then you're talking about Okay, you're, you're, but
at some point then he's is he gonna hit free agency?
Are you gonna what do you can do this? Although?
Are you gonna go back? We're gonna franchise tag DJ Turner? Uh?
Is he gonna request a trade? And then and then
you have then you can talk about DJ Turner. He'll
(35:21):
be the next to the line, right, Yeah, we had
we had Jesse Bates. Of course we have had Trey
Hendrickson Higgins, and maybe DJ Turner will be next for
you and you can wake up thinking about him every
day and what he's got going on.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
I want to wake up and read your gamer and
I know you don't at the Athletic don't write you know,
traditional gamers or watch the walkout. Yeah, and after the
Bengals have beaten the Pittsburgh Steelers, I want to either
read or hear or both references to how as was
predicted on this show.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Mo had it first, Mo had it first. You were
the first one in the Yes, not afraid to say it.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
The offense is cooking. They're coming off a bye. The
Steelers are not intimidating. No, Mike Tomlin's getting mad at
reporters for asking legit questions about his quarterbacks. Quarterbacks like
one hundred years old. They've beaten them already recently. They
should go to Pittsburgh and win.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yes, I think this is one hundred percent a game
that you should expect this team to win. I mean
they are when you have the offense playing. One thing
that that teams run into when they play the Steelers
is if you're just not familiar with the style of
game you have to play against them. It's different like teams.
Teams get wrapped up in that. I think that happened
(36:37):
to the Colts. Yeah, I think that happened to the
Colts a little bit.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
But I don't think they played that style here. I
don't think they've played it against the Bengals.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Don't the Chargers. The Bengals don't play into it. I
think the Chargers knew what they were doing with it, right,
and you know what are they I mean, who's the
corner opposite Porter right now? Is going to be Pierce
and they're moving Jalen Ramsey to safety, right, they are searching, okay,
and if you know, I think the one thing you
(37:06):
could say is okay, all right, young defense.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yeah, you just saw this a few weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
You know what they're gonna do. Let's let's go through
this again. Let's try this a second time. It could
be a good test for this defense in regards of
can you start learning from your mistakes? Here's literally the
same mistakes and the same people you just did this
against the week before. Can can you just find a
way to clean those up a little bit? You're gonna
see the same players and the same plays, the same
(37:32):
stuff here. Can you be a little bit better? Whereas
I don't I have thoughts that maybe that could happen.
I don't have many thoughts that the Steelers are all
of a sudden just gonna like shut down this offense.
I just think the offense is in too good of
a place right now, and the matchup is, you know,
too nice for what the Bengals want to do. And
how quickly Flacco is getting the ball out.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
You you can reference it even if I'm not right.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, go ahead. No, most said first they were gonna win,
and then they lost by twenty eight, right, and then
we can use it to talk about you.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
But fine by me. It's okay. But somebody was gonna
be for there will be others by Friday. Everybody is
gonna have the Bengals win. In fact, it's then I
may do it a heel turn to go. Actually, nah,
they're not gonna beat the Steelers. Somebody was gonna be first.
What is it about the Steelers that makes that crazy?
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Though? Is the only thing? I mean to me, that's it.
It's it's you had their game against the Colts, which
just seemed like a weird thing. Otherwise, I mean, look
at the team that the Steelers have been, even.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Even when they have won games earlier in the season,
they were not imposing that indye, win is a very
good wine. The Colts, I think, are really good. But
there's the brand and there's what you've come to expect.
And look, the Bengals have all sorts of defensive issues,
and so they may give up forty two points to
know what he would be surprised. I don't think there's
anything scary about the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Certainly not a few. I mean, when you just experienced
this a few weeks ago, and they're you know, their
their offense is not scary. Their offense is whatever Dk
Metcalf is gonna be able to get for them in
very little else Sometimes they run the ball and defensively
they're kind of a mess, and and they're either turnovers
or bust. They either get turnovers and find a way
(39:14):
to win or they don't when they lose. That's been
the case pretty much across the board. That's how they
beat Indianapolis. I mean Daniel Jones with all those turnovers
in that game, and so the one that's the one
thing Flacco has been good at. That's what they've They've
found a way to protect the ball, manage the game,
get the ball out quick, don't let t J. Watt
and Keanu Benton and Cam Hayward and all those guys
(39:36):
tear you up. And you know, the the recipe is there.
They just at some point mo in the fourth quarter
are gonna need to go out there and get a stop.
And that's probably where nol God has been working on.
What got misconstrued was you thought they were just saving
(39:57):
all the stuff and hiding everything in the preseason. What
he actually meant was through the first half too, and
then after the bye week, just unleash on the league.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Can I tell you what I think the most annoying
thing about the Steelers is right now? It's their special
teams coach. Oh yeah, that guy.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Chewing the gummy.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
He gets more TV time than any special teams coach
in the league. Chris Collins weren't done talk about special
teams coaches. I'm watching the game. You would think the
guy like invented kicking. He's been there a long time.
I'm sure he's a nice guy. There's no other team
where you see the special teams coach as much as
you do when you watch.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
The Steelers, unless you have one of these like big
special teams coaches that likes to run the field with
his team. Yeah, jump in the air and do all
kinds of crazy stuff. Sometimes you get that guy, that
crazy guy.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
But this guy back in the day, the Cowboys had
a special teams coach because he had like Jesus hair,
so you kind of noticed him. Other than that, you
don't notice special teams coaches until the Steelers play. They
don't stop showing that guy, Like, bro, you're a special
teams coach.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Let's put an over undrawn number of cutaways for our
guy on Sunday nine and a half, count them up
nine and a half? Think I think under Night under nine.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Well, the Bengals win by more points than cutaways to
the special teams code.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Oh wow, you heard it here first.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Thank you as always Reed Paul's work The Athletic dot Com.
Listen to the podcast or watch the podcast The Growlar
Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Pat noon and joins
us Next word Oakley Queen's This is ZESPN fifteen.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
Thirty, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic from the UC Health
Traffic Center. You'll find more options and clinical trials for
pancreatic cancer care at the UC Cancer Center. Get a
second opinion Fast Call five one three five eighty five
U SECC northbound seventy five after Town Street. The left
(41:49):
lane blocked from an accident looking at about a fifteen
minutes to laid back from Mitchell westbound on three rivers
Parkways still got that accident at Dining Lane with traffic
being directed around the area, and Cole Raine an accident
at hoppole I met Ezelic with traffic
Mo Egger News
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