11-27-25 R+L Carriers Pregame Sports Talk with Mo Egger

Mo previews the Bengals' Thanksgiving matchup against the Ravens.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is the R and L Carriers pregame sports Talk
presented by your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers. Pregame
SportsTalk is brought to you by Skyline Hilly Feeling Good.
It's Skyline, Time, Adoor and Twindow Company. They sell the
best and service the rest. Encore Technologies. Visit OnCore dot Tech.

(00:27):
Postman Law Injured call eight four to four, Postman others promise.
Postman delivers your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota dealers. For
all the latest offers, go to Toyota dot com and
by R and L Carriers. Visit RLC dot com and
make R and L Carriers your global transportation provider. And

(00:49):
now pregame sports talk.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
All right, here we go, Get afternoon and Pippy Thanksgiving.
I'm oegar. This is the RNL Carriers pregame sports talk show.
We are presented today by your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky
Toyota Dealers. Hope you're having a great Turkey day. The
Bengals playing on Thanksgiving for the first time since twenty ten.
Bengals and Ravens in Baltimore tonight, the return of Joe

(01:20):
Burrow kickoff at eight twenty. Dan Hord and Dave Lapham
have the game. Wayne box Miller has countdown to kickoff
at seven o'clock. I am with you until then. Joe
is back, maybe not so much miraculously, but certainly to
a large degree unexpectedly. He is back from that turf
toe injury, making his first start since the second game

(01:41):
of the season, which feels like forever ago September the fourteenth,
Week two against the Jacksonville Jaguars, and he comes back
to play against a Baltimore team that he torched last year. Now,
I know what the reaction is gonna be. Mo. They
lost both games to the Ravens last year, and they
did throw much fault of Joe Burrow, although I will

(02:02):
acknowledge in the first game against the Ravens last year
he did throw a really tough pick in the fourth quarter.
But beyond that, thirty of thirty nine Week five here
in Cincinnati three ninety two five touchdowns, and then Week ten,
a game they lose by a point thirty four of
fifty six four to twenty eight four touchdowns. Let's go

(02:23):
and get this part out of the way. The Bengals
cannot have Joe Burrow dropping back fifty six times tonight.
Hopefully that's not the case. Joe Burrow is the story
of this game. Ravens fans might not like to hear that,
but he is. That doesn't mean there aren't other interesting things,
like Jamar Chase coming back his first game since the suspension.

(02:47):
Jamar talked this week about the spinning incident in Pittsburgh.
You talk about somebody who was money against the Ravens
last year. Jamar Chase in the two games against Baltimore
four fifty seven and five touchdown. So Jamar is back.
Jamar and Joe playing without t Higgins. He's in the
NFL's concussion protocol. They're not gonna have him. But there's

(03:08):
a lot of other interesting stuff when it comes to
tonight's game. What else is interesting? I'll start with this,
all eyes on Joe Burrow, All eyes on Joe Burrow's
toe and how he handles any pain that he might
be in. How do the Bengals go about protecting him
amid all the losing. I think what has happened over
the last couple of months is the Bengals have developed

(03:31):
an okay offensive line. It's probably somewhere in the middle
of the pack in the NFL's probably right now playing
better than any Joe Burrow era Bengals offensive line. It's
been a little bit of an asset, and so can
that continue. Can the offensive lines progress over the last
few weeks continue now with Joe Burrow playing, gonna be

(03:54):
worth paying attention to. Can the Bengals run the ball
more effectively? This is something we're gonna talk about a lot.
Early in the season, the Bengals could not run the football.
Chase Brown couldn't get going. Over their last five games, though,
including last week against the Patriots, Chase Brown has been terrific.
He's been great as a rusher. He's also been pretty
reliable as a pass catcher. Can they get him going tonight?

(04:18):
And if the answer is yes, Joe Burrow ain't gonna
be dropping back fifty six times. Can they run the
ball effectively against Baltimore? Can the Bengals defense build upon
what it did last week? I will stop way short
of saying that the Bengals defense played well, though they
did get a defensive touchdown Gino Stone with a pick six.

(04:38):
Though they were good on the goal line last week
against New England. They were far from great, but they
were much better than they've been for much of the season.
So does that continue? Were there things to build upon
last week? And can they correct the biggest issue we
saw from the game against Baltimore, which was they had
no way of covering the middle of the field. If
I'm Mark Andrews or Isaiah Likely, I am licking my

(05:00):
chops looking at those Bengals rookie linebackers tonight. And also
there is this can the Bengals handle the travel snaffoo?
So I'm sure you've heard about this by now, but
the Bengals plane kind of sat on the tarmac for
like five and a half hours last night. They didn't
get to Baltimore until just before midnight. Now, it's not
a one o'clock game, but that's a long time for

(05:22):
those dudes, big dudes to be sitting on an airplane.
That's not going to be an excuse tonight. But that's
not to say that it might not be a factor.
We will see. We have a lot of ground to
cover between now and seven o'clock when Wayne box Miller
takes over with countdown to kickoff. Bengals and Ravens. This
is one of the games, perhaps even more so because

(05:44):
it's on Thanksgiving Night that I think if you're an
NFL fan, you have been looking forward to since the
schedule came out. They played two classics last year. Kelsey
Conway is in Baltimore covering the Bengals for The Inquirer.
She'll join us next. This is RNL Carriers Pregame Sports
Talk presented by your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers.

(06:04):
We continue with RNL Carriers Pregame Sports Talk presented by
your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers on Moweger. We
are getting set for Bengals and Ravens tonight in Baltimore,
the first of back to back road games for Cincinnati.
Bengals will be in Buffalo a week from Sunday. Kelsey
Conways and Baltimore covering the Bengals for The Inquirer and
Cincinnati dot Com does an awesome job and kind enough

(06:27):
to join us. Let's start with this. Joe Burrow is back.
If I would have said to you two months ago,
Joe is going to be playing starting for the Bengals
on Thanksgiving Night, what would you have said.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
No chance?

Speaker 4 (06:40):
But you know, after listening to him talk, I went,
why did I ever think he wouldn't be able to
come back? I think because I had on the reds
Foot doctor on when he first suffered his injury, and
I specifically asked the doctor and I said, is there
any way that he'll be back before three months? He
said he could, but it would be very, very.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
Painful for him.

Speaker 4 (07:03):
So I think my mind just shut down, and he
thought that it could be before three months. But I'll
never forget walking into pay Course Stadium the Monday after
the bye week and the Joe Burrow announcement press press
release email got sent out, and you know, I was like, Wow,
this this is happening. And once he got back, you

(07:25):
knew that it was that it was going to happen
at some point. But and then when he said, you know,
in his press conference that it would be very meaningful,
it just really felt like it was going to trend
in that direction.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
This game means something. The Bengals have a minuscule chance
of making the postseason, of winning the division. We've all
done the different scenarios in your opinion, which are never
afraid to share. If the Bengals get to a point
where there's an X next to their name in the
standings and they're officially eliminated. Should Joe Burrow continue to play?

Speaker 3 (07:58):
Should and will he is two different questions. Should he?

Speaker 4 (08:04):
I think he's getting paid to play, and I think
it sets a bad precedent about the organization if faced him.
I think it's a tricky situation. And I saw your
tweet after the game, and there's part of me that
agrees with you where it's like it's just not worth it.
But my only issue with him playing is if he

(08:24):
is not one hundred percent, then he should not be playing.
And if he's ninety percent, that's not good enough. In
my opinion, he has to be one hundred percent. So
if he does play and his foot starts to hurt
after this Thursday night game and it's they'd really be
maybe like risking further damage, he's got to sit.

Speaker 5 (08:44):
But I do.

Speaker 4 (08:45):
Agree, you know, he gets paid to play there, and
you know once you kind of say he doesn't have
to play. I already think the Bengals are in need
of a massive reset in the locker room next year.
I just think it would it would set them up
for failure with some other players who look to him
as you know, the main leader. But I totally see

(09:05):
where everybody's coming from. Where it's like, is it worth it?
But like you said, they technically still do have a chance,
but if they lose to Baltimore, it's it's over. And
I still think he will play, But if it starts
to hurt, just even a little bit, if I'm Zach Taylor,
I'm pulling.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
The plug on it.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
So you reference my tweet after the game I put
on Twitter. I would basically tell Joe Burrow, you know,
we'll see you in April. And then I added to it,
I'd hand him the keys to a really nice rental
in the Caribbean to ensure that he's not here Like
that's I'll acknowledge this. Number One, I think the Bengals
exercise some prudence by not having him play last week.
That's that's an encouraging thing. That's the thing that you

(09:44):
can't ignore. Number Two. It's very easy for me to
say that because I'm not the coach, and I don't
have to look at his teammates, and I don't have
to look at Joe Burrow and go, dude, you've you've
worked your tail off to come back, and so I'll
acknowledge that. I just for me. Number one, he was asked,
are you one hundred percent? And he didn't say yes.
So if he's not one hundred percent now and he plays,
chances are he's not going to be one hundred percent

(10:05):
between now and the end of the season. And also
chances are they play games at the end of the
season that don't matter. I have no real issue with
him playing tonight. I don't know how anybody could. It's
a winnable game. The Bengals do have at least an
outside chance, and so you go for it. But if
this is Week seventeen and it's the Arizona Cardinals and
they're eliminated and Joe Burrow is out there running around,

(10:27):
or if it's the last game of the season and
Miles Garrett's trying to break the sack record and the
game doesn't mean anything, then what are we doing right?

Speaker 4 (10:34):
And I feel the exact thing may you do? And
you brought up something that I think is progress, Zach
Taylor not playing him against the Patriots. It's progress from
the last time Joe got hurt. I think everyone in
the organization acknowledged they let Joe Burrow make a decision
when he returned from that calf injury.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
That should have been a decision.

Speaker 4 (10:56):
I mean, you guys talk about it all the time
on the Growlar podcast. Needs to be an adult in
the room. And I think Zach Taylor saying, if you
want to play on Thanksgiving and that's that's the one
game that you really want to try and push it for,
we can't afford to put you in harm's way with
two games in five days.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
So I thought that was progress.

Speaker 4 (11:15):
But I totally agree with you, like yesterday when he
wouldn't say one hundred percent. If his toe does not
respond in an encouraging way after this game against the
Ravens and they don't win, I think all bets are
off and he shouldn't play, especially you know you're going to.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
Buffalo if it's going to be cold. Like, I totally agree.

Speaker 4 (11:34):
With you from that standpoint, and it was good to
see some progress in terms of someone other than Joe
Burrow making a decision there. But the other part of
it is Zach Taylor wants him to play. He says,
Zach Taylor needs him to needs his team to show
a pulse at the end of the season, and I
think that's where a lot of Bengals fans are not

(11:54):
on board with it too.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
In addition to like what if.

Speaker 4 (11:56):
He gets hurt, but they're also like, well, what happens
if the Bengals run the table and then the Bengals
don't make any changes and it's last year all over again,
which I'm sure you probably talk about often, you know,
on your show. So it's a tricky deal and you
could go different, different couple of.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
Ways about it.

Speaker 4 (12:12):
But I just think that if it if it goes
well and his toe response, he can keep playing. But
the minute it's you know, we're at seventy five percent,
I think the smart thing to do would be shut
it down.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Well, and you know, they they played the defense played
okay against against New England, but you know, less than
two weeks ago people were saying, God, the Bengals defense
quit against Pittsburgh, And I think that's true. I think
that's true when it comes to a lot of those guys,
not all. Miles Murphy was really good that night for
the first time in his career, but like to me,

(12:45):
that looked and felt like a coach who's lost, at
least to a chunk of his team. I'm not ignoring that.
I'm not ignoring that just because Joe Burrow is back.
I won't ignore that if they win the game tonight.
And so that for me is when the real Zach
Taylor comversation should have started. Because to me, when you know,
the one thing you could say about Zach over the
course of six and a half years has always been

(13:06):
his teams have always played hard. Guys have never quit.
There's never been open fractures. Maybe there have been individual
players here and there who weren't bought in, but you
never saw anything like what we saw in Pittsburgh. So
to me, you know how much Zach is coaching for
his job. You could speak to that better than me,
But he is in the cross here is more than
ever before, because I want to see if down the
stretch we see anything that resembles what we saw in Pittsburgh.

Speaker 4 (13:30):
So you know what's interesting about what you just said
is and this all goes back to what Burrow said
yesterday when he always asked what do you make of
the record, and Joe had this really I thought well
said comment about no scheme can no scheme can transform
a player so much that it can take someone from

(13:50):
who can't tackle to make them tackle, And you know,
I feel like that's very That's been very apparent to
the Bengals this year, like they fired Lulan Rumo and said,
your scheme is too complex, it's not good for younger players. Essentially,
we need this guy who can connect with younger players
that hasn't made one sort of a difference, and honestly,
they've been worse in almost every single metric. But what

(14:14):
he is saying, I felt is that it's.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
On the players. But what do you do when you're
a player that you're trying hard but you just aren't good.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
I think about like Josh Newton and Gino Stone, like
I don't think that they're not trying, I just don't
think they're very good. And so that in lies the
problem where it's like I don't really.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
Think it's an effort thing, and I don't think is.

Speaker 4 (14:36):
I talked to Orlando Browns, Ted Carriss, and you know,
I ask questions like, you know, do you think the
Lockero still believes in Zach?

Speaker 3 (14:43):
Nobody has ever said no.

Speaker 4 (14:45):
I think that there could be a lot of changes,
but I really do think that Zach has flexed his
muscles a little bit more in terms of calling the
shots on the defensive side of the ball than we've
ever seen before, like with the Logan thing, Like Zach
was a huge advocate for Logan Wilson for a majority
of his career, and you know, he could have after

(15:07):
a couple of games, said let's go back to Logan
and Zach is you know, Zach's the head coach and
he's making these calls so to me, And that's been
an interesting development because in the years past, I feel
like his talente just let the defensive coordinator just do
a thing. And this year, you know, he's he's putting
his fingerprints on it, and so.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
I think he I don't think he's coaching for his job.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
I think that Burrough getting hurt is gonna is gonna
make this a what could have this situation been if
Burrow was hurt and Jack still has one year left
on his contract. But I don't think it's a matter
if they're not really trying. I just don't think they're
very good.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
No, yes, I think the list of issues for this
team would be number one, not enough talent. But I
do think like if you started to see a lack
of effort last week or I guess the week before.
You do wonder if that will continue, if you know,
if things really continue to go south and they're not
playing meaningful football down the stretch. Would would the same

(16:08):
thing apply to Duke Tobin?

Speaker 4 (16:12):
That one for me as the one I can't really
get my fingers off because it's like, I feel like
they're gonna do something this offseason. I don't think that
they're going to just run everything back again. And if
they do, that will be that will be something that
won't go over well with anybody, I don't think.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
But it's just really hard for me to believe. And
you would know this way better than me.

Speaker 4 (16:37):
For as long as you've been following this team like that,
that person is, you know, he's essentially part of the
ownership group in every aspect. And I mean, no, has
it ever been Was it ever this bad on the
defensive side of the ball under Marvin?

Speaker 2 (16:53):
No? No?

Speaker 3 (16:55):
No, okay, So they.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Had they had stretches where they didn't draft well, it
got really bad in twenty eighteen, it got really bad
Marvin's last year. You know, that was the game where
the New Orleans Saints cost Terrell lost in his gig
and so yeah, I mean, but you kind of had
a sense, Okay, this is the end and they're moving on,
and you had the sense the year before and they

(17:17):
brought him back for one more season. It's you know,
it's not even about defense, but to me, like the
most daming indictment indictment And we talked about it a
lot last week. So Jamar Chase doesn't play and they
don't even give Jermaine Burton a chance, and like, you
know that to me, if like if Duke Tobin works
for me, I go, okay, man, like really, like, this

(17:38):
is a guy you drafted. And the exercise that I've
done often this year is I pretend I'm Mike Brown
Duke Tobin sitting across from me, and I asked him
about the defense, like dude, why can't you fix this?
Or I go, hey, do we really not have anybody
besides Geno Stone? And then I look at we really
we can't play a guy who was in the third
round last year when we haven't opening up wide receiver
this week. There are just so many of those, and

(18:00):
in particular with the defense that I just I don't
have any faith in Duke Tobin fixing what you labeled
a massive rebuild this offseason.

Speaker 4 (18:09):
From what I have understood about things that happened behind
the scenes at the Bengals, and I think this is
what's going to make this a very complex issue this
off season.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
It will provide a lot of stuff for you to
talk about.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
Is Duke Tobin is certainly in charge of the roster,
but there are a lot of voices.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
In personnel decisions.

Speaker 4 (18:33):
And I think my main question if the organization does
bring Duke Hobin back, my number one question the minute
I get to talk to Katie Blackburn at owner's meetings
or Duke Tobin whenever that will be, will be if
you are going to keep human this position, Are you
going to change anything within your football operations and your

(18:56):
personnel evaluation department? And if they say nothing, then that's
going to be a different story. But I just would
wonder if if they decide to say, you know, we
are not going to move on from Dukey's family, he's
you know, not someone that is ever going to lose
his job here, then what are you going to do

(19:18):
to tell your fan base that you want to buy
tickets and to be excited about your team, and what
are you going to tell Joe Burrow?

Speaker 3 (19:24):
Like, I think that's the other part of this is
you got to.

Speaker 4 (19:27):
Make sure he stays in it with you guys, and
so like that's that's going to be the main question
for me. If they do, in fact keep Duke Tobin
and Zach Taylor, what are they changing? And I'm I'm
going to be pretty relentless on trying to figure that out.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yea, And I think those are things we're all trying
to figure out. Kelsey, I'll let you run read Kelsey
Conway in the Inquirer and Cincinnati dot Com in Baltimore
to cover tonight's game Bengals and Baltimore Ravens. We'll take
a look at a couple of guys who are in
the player's spotlight who are not Joe Burrow after the
four thirty news. This is the RNL Carriers pregame sports
talk show presented by Your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers.

(20:07):
It's a special Thanksgiving edition of the RNL Carriers pregame
sports talk show presented by Your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky
Toyota Dealers. A'm Mowegar we have the Bengals and Ravens
coming up. The Cincinnati Bengals playing on Thanksgiving for just
the second time in their history. The only other time
they've played on Turkey Day was back in twenty ten.

(20:28):
Bengals played on the road against the Jets in New Jersey.
Is a really good Jets team that came into that
game with an eight and two record, had beaten the
Bengals in the playoffs the year before. The Jets would
go on to play in the AFC Title Game that year,
the Bengals would not. Things were really bad that year.
That was the Chad and Too season. That was Carson

(20:50):
Palmer's last season. Bengals won four games that year. It
went south after a two and zero start very very quickly,
and there were all sorts of issues, not the least
of which was the Bengals had a lot of injuries
on defense that year. They had a not great defense
to begin with, and things were so messed up that
with them playing on a Thursday, they had to go

(21:11):
sign a guy named Jonathan Wade, a cornerback, and if
my memory serves me correct, I believe they signed him
like on Tuesday morning. I don't know that he went
through a full practice. He flew with the team the
New Jersey on Wednesday, and I don't remember if he started,
but I remember he played a pretty big role in

(21:33):
that game. So to me, that's always been the Jonathan
Wade game, a game the Bengals would lose twenty six
to ten. Hopefully better results tonight. Let's take a look
at tonight's player Spotlight. It is brought to you by
Furniture Fair. Get the guaranteed low price or it's free
at furniture Fair. Look, the obvious spotlight player is gonna
be Joe Burrow, Right, He's the franchise quarterback. He, for

(21:56):
my money, when he is healthy, is the best in
the NFL at the mechanics of playing quarterback, which is
why it's kind of funny to me that you hear
a lot about him having to adjust his style of play,
and there's merit to a lot of that. But it's
great to have a guy who, for my money, he's
not the most accomplished, not the most well known. He's

(22:16):
obviously not in the best this year. He's not the
healthiest on a consistent basis. I think he is the
best in the NFL at handling the mechanics of playing quarterback.
Hopefully we see that play out tonight. But beyond Joe Burrow,
I'm gonna put a spotlight on two guys who were
taken in the same draft who play the same position,

(22:38):
Chris Jenkins and McKinley Jackson, both defensive tackles. The Bengals
are gonna have to slow down Derrick Henry tonight. Derrick
Henry is going to be in the Hall of Fame.
Lamar Jackson hasn't been a huge threat with his legs.
Chris Jenkins was drafted by this team to be a

(22:58):
run stopper at A Michigan and was not known for
his pass rushing capabilities, although he had three pressures last
week against the Patriots. Chris Jenkins I think showed some
flashes against New England last week. McKinley Jackson has not
shown many flashes at all this year because he's barely played,
but he played against the Patriots. Didn't play a ton,
but when he played, he played well. Just nineteen snaps.

(23:20):
He had a Pro Football Focus grade above eighty one.
He was the third highest graded defensive player against the run.
I read that Pro Football Focus. I read that and
since he jungled dot Com. So the Bengals got to
be really good tonight against Derrick Henry. It starts up front.
We could also talk about the linebackers. We could talk
about second level tackling, which has been atrocious for this

(23:41):
team this year. But it's really going to have to
start at the point of attack. And so I put
the spotlight on Chris and McKinley and not just tonight.
This team's draft classes need to start panning out. Duke
Tobin has taken a lot of criticism for a lot
of different things. For me, at the top of that

(24:01):
list is he hasn't drafted well, especially on defense. If
this is ever gonna change, and when I say this,
this franchise, if they're going to while Joe Burrow is
still here, have this sort of team that can legitimately
contend for a championship, They're gonna have to build their
defense and build a good one through the draft, which

(24:22):
Duke Tobin hasn't been able to do. It would be
great if by the end of the season you could say,
at the very least they do have a couple of
guys who are worth moving forward with on the defensive line,
Chris Jenkins and McKinley Jackson. Those players spotlighted tonight thanks
to Furniture Fair. Get the guaranteed low price or it's

(24:44):
free at Furniture Fair. We're gonna go to Baltimore coming
up in just about ten minutes and learn more about
this Ravens team that started one in five. They've won
five straight games. There's been a dramatic turnaround for them. Defensively,
Offensively they've been okay. More on that coming up here
in just a bit. So Joe makes his return tonight

(25:04):
and we have lots of questions. Are the Bengals going
to run the ball better? Can they protect him? Is
Joe going to adjust how he plays all of that?
What I'm wondering at the outset of the game is
is there gonna be rust? He hasn't played in a
football game since September the fourteenth. He's kept himself in

(25:25):
good shape, He's obviously been practicing, went through a couple
of practices leading up to the New England game. But
is there gonna be rusted? And in Joe Burrow's Bengals career,
we have seen moments where there has been rust. We
always talk about the Bengals issues getting off to fast starts,
which one of the ironic things about this season has
been the Bengals won their first two games. They did that. Now,

(25:48):
in that second game, Joe got hurt. But in the
first game of the season against Cleveland, Joe played unevenly,
maybe not poorly, but unevenly. Didn't play great in the
season opener last year, didn't play great in the season
opener two years ago, had five turnovers in the season
opener of the year before that. Now you might go, well,
wait a minute, mo, He's been coming off of injury.

(26:08):
He's been coming off wrisk surgery, a knee problem, an appendectomy. Yes,
but he wasn't this year. There is a little bit
of a track record, and it's worth paying attention to.
There's a little bit of a track record. When Joe
has not played in an NFL game, a real NFL
game in a while. There seems to be a little rust.
Is there any tonight? And if there is, how long

(26:32):
does it take for him to kind of chip off
the rust By the time he does, What does the
game look like? Are the Bengals losing in by how much?
And if he can't chip off the rust, is he
out there with a never ending leash. One of the
questions that we're not really gonna I'm guessing you know,
the answer to is how compromised is Joe Flacco? Right?

(26:54):
And part of what drove the Joe Burrow conversation last
week was the fact that Joe Flacco has been dealing
with a spring dac joint also banged up his finger
last week. But the Bengals have to win tonight's game.
I wonder, I wonder how long the leash is if
Joe just tonight doesn't have it, and in particular, if

(27:14):
he doesn't have it and he is physically compromised, it's
gonna be worth paying attention to. The conversation about Joe
has surrounded the issue of whether or not it makes
sense for him to be playing now. I'll tell you this.
If you don't follow me on Twitter, first of all,

(27:35):
you should at Moegger. Secondly, walking out of the stadium
last week after the Bengals lost to the Patriots, I
put on social media that I would tell Joe Burrow,
I'll see you at voluntary workouts, like dude, I'll see
you in April, and I said I'd hand him the
keys to like the best rental I could find in
the Caribbean and just tell him, like, dude, just go away.

(27:58):
Maybe a slight exaggerate. I have no issue, and I
think if you're a Bengals fan you should agree. You
should have no issue with Joe Burrow playing tonight.

Speaker 6 (28:08):
Now.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
I might be watching through my fingers. I may want
to see them give him a quick hook. But first
and foremost, Zach Taylor is trying to win football games,
not doing a very good job. And if they do
win football games, you could argue it's probably a little
bit too late. But I do think it's funny that
a lot of the same people who have spent a

(28:31):
lot of time going overboard to tell anybody who will
listen that one of the things they hate about the
Bengals is the fact that they don't try to win,
they don't care about winning. Those same folks will get
mad at Zach Taylor for trying to win a football game.
Trying to win a football game where the Bengals at
least mathematically have a chance to get to the postseason.

(28:52):
I cannot fault him for that, and I certainly cannot
fault Joe Burrow for doing everything he can to come back,
and then insisting I'm a football player, I want to play.
I'm back, Get out of my way. This conversation changes
entirely if the Bengals are playing in games that mean

(29:14):
absolutely nothing in terms of the standings. I'm not saying
the Bengals should tank. I think that the tank topic
is one of the most overrated in sports because tanking
sounds great Monday through Saturday. Players and coaches care too
much to tank. This isn't about tanking. It's about protecting

(29:35):
your most prized asset. I don't know about you. I
will go overboard to protect the things, the assets, the
investments that are most important to me. I'll go overboard.
I will go overboard to protect my biggest investments. Joe
Burrow is the biggest investment in the history of Cincinnati sports. Otherwise,

(30:02):
so tonight, yll nobody loves it because we don't love
the fact that he got hurt. But I think all
of us get it. They're trying to win, and they're
trying to win, and if they do, you might have
to talk yourself into it. But they're only gonna be
two games out of first place behind Baltimore at least,
and you know, Pittsburgh may lose this week, and if

(30:24):
they do to Buffalo, there're six and six and then
it's you know, you might not be making reservations to
you know, get a babysitter for the Bengals playoff game,
but you're gonna be able to talk yourself into it
at least a little bit. So this game means something.
They're trying to win it. I respect that they should
be trying to win it. Joe Burrow represents a better

(30:45):
chance to win the football game than Joe Flacco or
Jake Browning or anybody else. But if we get to
Week seventeen, Arizona Cardinals are here and the bank, despite
their best efforts, have been eliminated and they're not making
the postseason, and there's like a I guess an X

(31:08):
or whatever they put next to your name in the
standings that says eliminated, no chance, not making the playoffs.
If if that's next to Cincinnati and the NFL standings,
Joe Burrow should not be playing in games that do
not matter, whether it's the Miami game, whether it's Arizona,
whether it's Cleveland and Man as long as there's even

(31:32):
the tiniest mathematical possibility. Okay, fine, there is what they
did last year, which is win five straight games, and
they at least gave themselves a chance going into that
last NFL Sunday. Now, if you look at the quarterbacks
the Bengals played during that stretch and compare them to
the qbs the Bengals are facing just over the next
couple of weeks, it's not exactly apples to apples, but

(31:55):
you cannot. And so you know, this to me has
been the topic all week long. And I think I
think Joe playing, hearing him talk, I think that's allowed
him to win some holdovers to his side that says,
I'm a football player, I'm getting paid, I want to play.
And all right, fine, if we win this game, we've
at least got more of a chance than we do

(32:16):
right now to make the postseason. I'm in. I'm in.
And And by the way, I love watching Joe Burrow play.
So why wouldn't I be excited about watching him tonight,
especially against a team that he's had some success with
or against recently. But the moment, the moment they're done,
the moment they're cooked. Send Joe Burrow to that Caribbean

(32:37):
Rental that I tweeted about after the game last week.
It's the Bengals and Ravens tonight. You talk about a
team that has engineered to turn around. The Ravens were
one in five and kind of sort of maybe left
for dead. They have pulled themselves off to Matt They

(32:58):
are the over favorite to win the AFC North and
the main reason why has been their defense. Their defense
was Bengals esque the first five or six games of
the season. It has since been terrific. Six consecutive opponents
have failed to score more than twenty points against the
Baltimore Ravens. The question becomes, I guess two of them.

(33:20):
One can that continue? Number two? Can can Baltimore's offense
go back to looking the way it's supposed to when
you have a quarterback who's been an MVP before Lamar
Jackson has dealt with injury. Lamar Jackson, for what it's worth,
I don't think is one hundred percent. They've been less
than dominant, but they are winning and they are the

(33:41):
favorites to win the AFC North. We'll head to Baltimore
and talk about a team that has been better on
defense but uneven on offense when we come back. It's
the Bengals and Ravens coming up. Countdown to kickoff at
seven pm. Dan Hord and Dave Lapham have the game
coming up at eight twenty. Well head to Baltimore next.
This is the RNL Carriers pregame sports Talk presented by

(34:04):
your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers. I hope you're
having a Boston. Thanks. This is the R and L
Carriers three Games portys Talk presented by your Cincinnati and
Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers. I'm Oeger. It's the Bengals and
Ravens coming up. Kickoff is at eight to twenty tonight.
Wayne box Miller has countdown to kickoff at seven pm.

(34:26):
The Baltimore Ravens at one point this season were one
in five. They open up the season as huge favorites
to win the AFC North. They lost the first game
of the season, they gave it away against the Buffalo Bills.
They end up starting one in five. Their defense was
playing like the worst in the NFL, or at least
the second worst in the NFL after the Bengals. But

(34:47):
what's been interesting is they've they've never, They've never been
a long shot. They've never not had really good odds
to win the AFC North. And for the most part
all season, despite the losses, they have been favored. They've
won five straight games. Offensively a little bit uneven, defensively
much better than they were and it feels like they're

(35:08):
in the driver's seat in the AFC North. Can the
Bengals do something about that? Let's go to Baltimore. Kirk
Mekewan Afternoon Guy ninety eight Rock in Baltimore. He is
also the Ravens pregame and postgame host. Let's start with
Joe Burrow's return. When you have found out that Joe
was going to be coming back and playing against the Ravens,
what was your reaction?

Speaker 6 (35:28):
Well, I don't know, and most thanks for having me.
Joe Burrow is not going to be He's gonna have some.

Speaker 7 (35:34):
Rush on him. He's missed nine games and.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (35:39):
We do a show called The Purple Power Hour with Semi.
I'm Bidejo and Dennis Pitta, both super Bowl champions, different
thirty five and forty seven different super Bowls, and Semi
said he had the same thing that Burrow had and
he missed.

Speaker 7 (35:52):
A lot longer than nine weeks, So I'm just wondering.

Speaker 6 (35:56):
Why bring him back? Why rush back Burrow? But if
that's what you want to do, and he hasn't fared
well against the Ravens in this history three and six.
But Joe Blackough, I mean, I'm not telling you guys
anything new. I mean, you could use a spark in
Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase coming back could be a spark.
And these games are always good between the Ravens.

Speaker 7 (36:16):
And the Bengals.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah, no question about it. Early in the season, the
Ravens defense looked like the Bengals defense. It has been
terrific the last six games. They've held the opponent to
under twenty in each of them. What's been the big difference?

Speaker 6 (36:31):
Two words, Kyle Hamilton, I mean, and I mean that's
contingent upon a couple of other things. A low heat
Gilman coming in and really holding down that back end
where Kyle Hamilton was relegated. Now Kyle can roam around
and he's he's just all over the place. He put
a spin move on Teller of the Browns the other

(36:52):
day and wound up on Shedor Sanders.

Speaker 7 (36:55):
It was a thing of beauty.

Speaker 6 (36:56):
You don't see a safety come up to the line,
line up in the a gap right there over center
and between the center and the guard and throw a
spin move that somebody that's six four to two twenty
can do. This isn't Rokwan Smith. It's Kyle Hamilton doing it.
So he's really His line against the Browns was crazy.
It was like nine tackles, three for a loss, a sack,

(37:19):
two passes defended.

Speaker 7 (37:21):
He's having a.

Speaker 6 (37:22):
Dto Y type year and it's been fun to watch.
And yeah, he's really calm things down and a low
hee Gilman coming in and also Draymond Jones, who is
He comes hard, hat in hand, he's ready to go
every play. He plays like a raven and he just
got here three games ago or whatever. So i'd say

(37:44):
those you know, those three things, and yeah, it was
hard to watch early and you guys are seeing it now.
But the Ravens were giving up an average of thirty
five points a game to the first five games and
they've kept it under nineteen or so. I think it's
been good lately and we'll see what happens.

Speaker 7 (38:03):
The Bengals like to put up points.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Man, Yeah, no, question, and they did last year, albeit
in two losses because Lamar Jackson was super human in
both of those games. He has been good but not
great recently. How much that can be attributed to health?

Speaker 7 (38:19):
Think a lot mo.

Speaker 6 (38:21):
We were looking back and he hasn't been the same
since the Ed Oliver hit in Week one against the Bills.
Week two, he didn't run at all and the Ravens
won against the Browns. Nobody talked about it. Week three,
got sacked seven times against the Lines. He comes out
of the Chiefs game, and he missed a bunch of games,
and so it's not been the same. And Hardball even

(38:42):
alluded to it. He said something like, Lamar's gonna win
a lot of pretty games. He's winning ugly right now.
But he's our quarterback. Meaning Lamar's out there and he's
playing hurt and he's not.

Speaker 7 (38:53):
Going to admit it. It's almost like hockey injury.

Speaker 6 (38:56):
He's got a lower body or an upper body. Well,
he's having me. He had an ankle. He missed yesterday's
walkthrough with a toe. He's just not been right all
year long. And he's a couple of games with no
touchdown passes. I guess the game against the Browns is
one of his worst as a pro. No touchdowns, a
couple of interceptions, it was, but they won and it

(39:17):
was just not the Lamar were used to.

Speaker 7 (39:21):
So we'll see. I think you get past the.

Speaker 6 (39:24):
Bengals, hopefully with a W if you're a Ravens enthusiast,
and then you get the many by and and maybe
things come together because the offensive line has not done
him any favors.

Speaker 7 (39:35):
Yeah, and he's holding the ball a little long.

Speaker 6 (39:37):
There's a lot going on, but still they're winning ugly
and at the end, you want to win games, and
that's what they're doing. Five in a row, going for
six against a tough Bengals opponent.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah, five consecutive dug out of a one in five
hole prohibitive favor to win the AFC North and understandably.
So you mentioned the offensive line. How problematic has it been.

Speaker 6 (39:58):
Well, it's it's the guard, it's Andrew Boorhees and Daniel
Ale and every now and then things come together like
the fifty nine yard Derrek Henry touchdown run or it
wasn't a touchdown Krischmann, and then the hurricane Mark Andrews
touch bush where he spun around and and and got

(40:20):
the touchdown. But yeah, those two have been a liability
this year and it's they've been.

Speaker 7 (40:25):
They were there last year. It's funny. HQ. Shipley on
ESDN going into the Browns game, I.

Speaker 6 (40:33):
Think called the Ravens offensive line one of his top
five and that was a hit scratcher.

Speaker 7 (40:38):
For me and a lot of people from Baltimore.

Speaker 6 (40:40):
But Ronnie Stanley's been hurt a little bit.

Speaker 7 (40:43):
He's been banged up.

Speaker 6 (40:45):
Roger rosen Garten has had some lapses. Miles Gart, Miles Garrett,
I mean, what are you gonna do? That guy's gonna
own most offensive line dood het four sacks, He spun
Roger roseen Garten around, and then they met at Lamar
Jackson together. So it's been tough. There's opportunity there. But
you know, no Trey Anderson, that's a plus. No no

(41:07):
Higgins this week.

Speaker 7 (41:09):
He's not on defense.

Speaker 6 (41:10):
But hey, the Bengals have had a tough goal of it.
They're gonna come an ornary man. They're they're missing Thanksgiving
at home too, so it's gonna be It's gonna be
a classic AFC North battle. These teams know each other,
they respect each other, they don't like each other, and
the Bengals they deserve to get one of these games
at their place. It does seem like they are on

(41:32):
the road for a lot of these sort of milestone games.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
Yes, in the aftermats of the schedule coming out, we
talked about that a ton. It should be It should
be great. Kirk, I can't thank you not for the time, man,
thanks so much.

Speaker 7 (41:46):
No appreciate it, Enjoy the game.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
That's Kirk McEwan. He is with ninety eight Rock in Pittsburgh.
He is the Ravens pregame and postgame host. Kind enough
to join us before he goes on the air. Bengals
and Ravens are coming up since Cincinnati is trying to
jump back into the AFC North race. And I bet
you at least one member of the Ravens watched the
Bengals game nearly two weeks ago. I'll explain next. This

(42:11):
is the RNL Carriers pregame sports talk show presented by
Your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers. It's time for
the five o'clock news.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
This is the r and L Carriers pregame SportsTalk presented
by your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers. Pregame SportsTalk
is brought to you by Skyline. Shilly feeling good. It's
Skyline Time, a door and twindow company. They sell the
best and service the rest. Encore Technologies. Visit OnCore dot Tech.

(42:46):
Postman law Injured call eight four to four Postman others promise.
Postman delivers your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota dealers For
all the latest offers, go to Toyota dot com and
by R and L Carriers visit RLC dot com. Had
to make R and L Carriers your global transportation provider

(43:08):
and no pre game sports talk.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
It is the five o'clock hour. It's the RNL Carriers
pregame sports Talk presented by your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky
Toyota Dealers, Bengals and Ravens coming up on Thanksgiving. I'm
moager with you till seven o'clock countdown to kickoff with
Wayne box Miller takes over for us and then Dan
Horden Dave Lapham have the game. I hope wherever you're going,
if you're going anywhere, if you've been traveling, if you're

(43:35):
traveling right now. If you're if you're traveling car playing,
whatever it is, I hope your travel is easier than
the Bengals travel was to Baltimore where they sat on
the tarmac for like five hours last night, and instead
of getting to Baltimore early in the evening, they arrived

(43:57):
I guess shortly before midnight. This is no excuse. I
even had a buddy of mine say they should they
should move the game to Friday. Number one. NBC ain't
letting that happen. Number two. Look, you gotta adjust. Mature
teams figure it out. Do the Bengals have some maturity.

(44:18):
Jamar Chase has often, to me come off as a
really mature guy. I'm a huge Jamar Chase fan and
that hasn't changed because of what happened in Pittsburgh. And look,
man like, this doesn't need to be said. I haven't
done a ton of topics on this because I think
we all feel the same way about Jamar. Good dude,
great player, did a very regrettable thing, and the punishment

(44:42):
that he got he deserved. And I you know, for me,
I say this all the time. I'm a body of
work guy. I judge people by their bodies of work,
not their isolated poor incidents. Now, if there's a bunch
of isolated poor incidents, then that becomes a large part
of the body of work. Jamar Chase's body of work
on and off the field as a teammate, as a guy,
obviously as a player, has been awesome. This does not

(45:05):
have to be something that comes to define him. I
do think it's kind of interesting that he didn't mention
Jalen Ramsey by name in his apology, in his apology
that he put on social media, or in his statements
to the media the other day. But you know, it's
not that much of a mystery. You don't like Jalen Ramsey.

(45:26):
Probably a lot of bad blood there. We'll see. Bengals
don't play the Steelers anymore. They do play the Baltimore
Ravens tonight, and I guess that's something I'm gonna be
looking for this evening and just for the foreseeable future.
I don't know that Jamar Chase has earned a reputation
for being a guy whose skin you can get under,

(45:48):
but Jalen Ramsey got under it two weeks ago against
the Steelers. So if I'm Marlon Humphrey, or Kyle Hamilton
or one of those Ravens defenders. I'm gonna try to
under Jamar Chase's skin, not because I want to get
spit at, but because I want to see if he'll
do something stupid, whether it's just something silly that earns

(46:08):
his team of fifteen yard penalty or something really dumb
that earns an ejection, like you can't tell me that
if you're Marlin Humphrey, if you're one of the Baltimore dbs,
you're not thinking, huh, Jalen must have gotten under his skin?
Could we get under his skin? If I'm one of

(46:28):
those Ravens defensive backs, I'm gonna try to bait Jamar
into doing something stupid, and hopefully if they do, Jamar
doesn't take the bait, we will see be great to
have him back. Bengals aren't gonna have t Higgins tonight, either,
which I think the moment we saw him come off
the field last Sunday against the Patriots, we all assumed

(46:50):
he had no chance. He's playing four days later against Baltimore,
so at the very least they have a Jamar Chase.
I was asked this question on my show on ESPN.
Fifteen thirty this week about like, would I be open
to the idea of trading T Higgins at the end
of this season and we could talk about this. The
answer is yes, I'm open to it if I ran

(47:11):
the Bengals, because Number One, I've tried it with T
Higgins the last couple of years. It hasn't worked. And
this is also something I shouldn't have to say. T
Higgins is a beloved Cincinnati Bengal and should be. If
we were to do the thing where you mentioned your

(47:32):
favorite player for me, it'd probably be T Higgins. Like
I've loved everything about how he has handled himself, how
he's played like team first guy. Love T Higgins. But
they've tried this with Joe, Jamar and T and the
results haven't worked the last few years. The team building
around those guys hasn't worked, And the tea building around

(47:54):
those guys moving forward is the methods, the overarching philosophies,
the way they do it. I guess those things aren't
gonna change, So keep that in mind. It's not like
it's working right now the way they're trying to do things.
Number Two, in order for them to successfully undergo the

(48:15):
defensive overhaul that they're gonna have to kind of make
define their offseason. They're probably gonna need a lot of
draft capital. They could also use a little extra money.
If you trade T Higgins, you get one and you
free up the other. That's not a bad thing. Like,

(48:37):
you know, they can go sign free agents to play
defense for this team. But they're not gonna be able
to go and do what they did in twenty twenty
twenty twenty one when they just like threw a bunch
of money at dudes like Trey Hendrickson and Shouldobia Woozy
and Von Bell and Mike Hilton and DJ Reader. I
ain't gonna happen, So, you know, might free up a

(48:57):
little bit more. Coin might also helped me stockpile a
draft choice or two high end draft choices. And again,
this isn't giveaway t It's not, you know, give them
away for sixty five cents on the dollar. It's try
to flip them for something of equal or even greater value.
The other part of this, though, is this was the

(49:17):
plan a year ago. Like a year ago, at this time,
by all accounts, the Bengals were ready to move on
from T Higgins and then Joe Burrow changed the narrative,
and Joe Burrow, you know, nearly a year ago, goes
in front of the microphones and cameras after a Monday
night football game and you know, basically changes the direction

(49:40):
the Bengals seemingly were gonna go in. T Higgins was
not in their future plans. Joe Burrow made him, made
T Higgins a part of their future plans. And so
number one, you kind of wonder what would the alternate
universe look like where they don't sign T Higgins the
way they did. Number two too, if you already were thinking,

(50:02):
you know what, it might be best for us as
an organization to move on from this player as great
and as beloved as he is, because we can we
could use we could use the money, we could we
could build our team differently than paying wide receivers. If
you thought that's was the best way of doing things
and you pivoted to something else and the direction you

(50:24):
pivoted in hasn't worked, how then do you not go
back and revisit what you were going to do to
begin with. And again, man, I'm not gonna say I
wanted T Higgins to go away at the end of
last season, I think what they're doing can work, but
I'm not sure it can if you maintain the status
quo as it relates to your draft, how you draft,

(50:44):
and the number of picks you get. And I just
don't know if there's anybody else that you could use
to trade for more draft capital. We will see. By
the way, a part of this conversation is also Jermaine Burton.
It is remarkable. Last week the Bengals needed a receiver
arguably the best in the sport wasn't available. Did the
Bengals dip into their reservoir of receivers and pull out

(51:08):
a guy that they drafted in the third round who
had played at two SEC schools. No, they did not.
It is remarkable. It is remarkable a third round draft
choice from just last year doesn't play. Remarkable. Let's highlight

(51:30):
the delivery of last week's game. It is brought to
you by RNL Carriers. Go to RLC dot com and
make RNL Carriers your global transportation provider. The delivery of
the game for me was Joe Flacco's pick six, the
one that Marcus Jones picked off in the second quarter
last Sunday took thirty three yards to the House. It
gave the Patriots a fourteen to ten lead. I'm probably

(51:55):
like most maybe like you. Prior to Joe Flacco coming
to the Cincinnati I didn't feel that strongly about him
either way. Like he was the quarterback of the Ravens
for a long time, seems sort of likable. Didn't really
care that much to learn about his personality. Since he
has shown up in Cincinnati, I think he has demonstrated

(52:18):
good humor, great perspective, leadership. He's done everything he can.
Like I'm a Joe Flacco fan for life, but it
has felt like over the last couple of weeks like
he has turned into a little bit of a pumpkin.
He makes the throw the pick six, It was another
bad decision. He's physically limited, Like, boy, that's got to
be better. So the Bengals lose that game, not necessarily

(52:42):
because of the pick six, but a game that was
decided by less than a touchdown where the Bengals had
almost no margin for error. You can't make a mistake
like that. Joe Burrow hopefully doesn't make a mistake like that.
We will see, and you know, we'll see if Joe

(53:03):
Flacco takes another snap for the Cincinnati Bengals. One of
the interesting conversations we're gonna have this offseason is who's
the backup quarterback going to be? Joe Flacco is forty,
not under contract. Jake Browning this year as a starting
QB was a disaster. The backup quarterback has to be
somebody that you feel you could trust. For all the

(53:24):
success that Jake Browning had two years ago when he
got pressed into service, I'm not sure he did anything
to make anybody feel like you could trust him if
you have to turn to him in some sort of
meaningful situation, is Joe Flacco interested in coming back and
playing in the NFL next year? If the answer is yes,
why would you not want him back? Why would you

(53:45):
to be a backup? Not play fifteen sixteen games to
be a reliable, steady backup? Provide some perspective, that sort
of thing we will see. But unfortunately, yes, Joe Flacco
did provide the delivery off week's game, which is no good.
The Bengals defense was better, And we're gonna talk a
little bit about Geno Stone, who I feel like we've

(54:07):
talked about almost every single week for purely negative reasons.
But if you're gonna do that. You got to point
out when the dude has a good game, and he
had a really good game last week, and we'll get
to that here coming up in just a bit. Al
Golden's defense was better. It wasn't perfect, it wasn't even
I would say good, but it was better. Was that
a matter of schematics or was that may be a

(54:30):
matter of dudes just lining up and beating the dude
in front of him. We're gonna talk about that with
our guy, Sean Saya. This dude joins me every single
week on ESPN fifteen thirty, and he's kind enough to
join us on the RNL carriers pregame sports talk coming
up here in just a bit. Also, a little bit
later on, we're gonna chat with a dude who writes
a great Bengals column for Cincinnati Magazine. This guy actually

(54:54):
writes for a lot of different publications. He writes a
large Bengals chapter in the f Fantasy Preseason Almanac, which
is a must every July and August. Robert Winstroud will
get his perspective on the Bengals, the Ravens, and everything
related to this game and the Bengals franchise. That is
coming up here in just about twenty minutes. We are

(55:16):
looking forward to that. If you'd like to send me
a tweet during the show, go ahead and do that
At mullegar. We're getting ready for the Bengals and Baltimore
Ravens tonight. This is the RNL Carriers pregame sports talk show.
We are presented today by your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky
Toyota dealers. This is the RNL Carriers pregame sports talk show,

(55:38):
presented by your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota dealers. I'm Moegar.
Hope you're having a great Thanksgiving. We are just about
three hours away from kickoff. The Bengals and Baltimore Ravens
Tonight kickoff at eight to twenty with postgame coverage going
deep into Black Friday with our guy Austin Elmore. Sean
Sayed is with sumer sports dot com. He has a

(56:00):
great newsletter, these Stats and Scheme Newsletter. He joins my
show every Tuesday on ESPN fifteen thirty. Kind enough to
join us on Thanksgiving. Awesome to have you, Sean. The
Bengals last week. Let's start with the defense. Did they
do some new and better things schematically or did they
just line up and beat the dudes in front of them.

Speaker 5 (56:19):
Oh, it was really kind of fun to watch. I
wouldn't say it was necessarily schematic. I thought it was
a little bit more at the player level where on
our AI grade, DJ Turner had a grate out as
an eight, which is seen as like a player of
the week type performance. You also get that really nice
pick six from Gino Stone. You get some stunting success
on the inside, which I did like that, you know,
test the offensive line in a different way, a bunch

(56:41):
of goal line stands and kind of getting in the
face of wide receiver. So actually, now I think about
it was a little bit schematic, but definitely at that
player level where now we're getting okay, good games from
Murphy Hill and Osi like those are things that you
can actually build on, where I do think some of
the issues for the Patriots came down to something as
simple as Drake made just just spraying a few of
those three. It was all the fun, if I may

(57:02):
say so myself, To watch that game.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
Back, it was. It was an entertaining game. It didn't
have the right result. When teams play good goal line defense.
Is that ever schematic or is it just line up
and beat the dude in front.

Speaker 5 (57:14):
Of you sella. I would say for really high level
goal line offenses, it can very much be schematic. I
think when you see four runs right into the middle,
back to back to back to back, I would lean
that to be a little bit more at the player level.
And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. As
much as I talk about skins and stuff, I still
think this is a player makes plays type of league.

(57:34):
So I do think that was just like a really
nice job on the inside at the individual level. How
many times have we talk this year and even look
at it in this game, where are you missing a tackle?
Are you able to destroy a block? And I think
the Bengals did that on the goal line against the Patriots.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
The one thing they did not do well, and it's
been a deficiency all year. I think it stood out
on Sunday because they actually did do a lot of
things well is they had no defense in the middle
of the field. Hunter Henry Austin Hooper combined ten catches.
Hunter Henry had one hundred and fifteen yards. They combined
for over one fifty five Is there is there anything

(58:10):
you can do when you are playing two rookie linebackers
and you have the deficiencies the Bengals have in safety,
Is there anything that al Golden can do to at
least somewhat shore up their defense in the middle of
the field, and.

Speaker 5 (58:23):
You can try and find ways maybe just make their
life a little easier, whether half the time you're sending
one linebacker and you're able to simplify the job of
the other linebacker. Because I agree with you, and I'm
watching that back and like any time the Patriots needed
to find a way to create some explosion, it's like,
let's get the linebackers going in the wrong direction, we're
going to be able to take advantage of them. So
I will say linebacker in the NFL is an extremely

(58:44):
hard job. When you look at the top, there aren't
like fifteen dominant dominant players. Maybe the same way you
think about wide receiver, but it's yeah, sometimes a little
the tough and thin get through some of the film
when you're looking at emotion just like totally kind of
unfolding part of the defense.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
Yeah, it really stood out on Sunday. I'm not sure
that's going to get any better. Given the fact that
they're going to play a team with a couple of
really good tight ends in the Baltimore Ravens. So Joe
Burrow is going to play, and you and I have
talked about this a bunch. I don't expect Joe Burrow
to suddenly start taking a bunch of snaps under center.
But like, given given what they have been able to

(59:20):
touch on offensively without Joe, given Joe's extensive skill set
and all his experience, what can we expect schematically for
Zach Taylor and Dan Pitcher to come up with against Baltimore?

Speaker 5 (59:33):
I mean, can I get some isolation shots from my
guy Mitchell Tinsley? A lot of fun to watch against
the Patriots so much, it was a lot of fun.
Bo I'm looking for anything that can make this stuff
more fun when I'm watching it. I do think, obviously,
with f Ke Higgins in this game, that is a
little bit of a bummer, And I guess like underneath
it all, I feel like, yes, Joe Burrow is probably

(59:54):
not going to just become like a forty under center
type quarterback, but maybe we should have a little bit
of that expectation where you need to find different ways
to make life easier on your offensive line, you need
to find different ways to really put defenses in a conflict.
And I mean, I thought Jakes Brown had a really
good game against the Patriots. You're able to see that burst.
I think he can run from gun and on your center.

(01:00:15):
But if we're getting into under center looks, we're getting
that play action. Look we can have guys running across
the middle of the field. I do want to see
that for the Bengals because the rest of this year
to me, and I like that Burroughs playing because you know,
it's like he's he's paid. And I think that if
you take a full year off of football, that is
really tough. Now, MO don't play this back if he
gets injured at any point over.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
The next two games here.

Speaker 5 (01:00:35):
But I do think, like keep finding ways to shape
that offense and more for the little bit. And I
totally get Burrow is a special, like one of one
type shotgun player, like he really really is. But in
the NFL now, the way things are going, you're not
always able to just sit back there. You don't want
to drop back forty five times from a regular shotgun.
The way that your offensive line kind of has played overall,

(01:00:58):
so let's expect a little bit understand and hopefully be
able to talk about it more.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Next week, I hope, So it'll be interesting. Sean side
As with a Subscribe to his newsletter, the Stats and
Stems Newsletter at sumersports dot com. The Baltimore Ravens in
the first four or five games of the season were
nearly as bad as the Bengals are defensively. Since then,
they've been terrific. Six consecutive opponents, they've given up twenty
points for fewer. The obvious answer I think is they've

(01:01:24):
gotten healthier. But beyond that, what's been the difference you've
seen on tape between Baltimore in the first half of
their game so far and what they've done over the
last month and a half.

Speaker 5 (01:01:34):
The big difference has been Putting Kyle Hamilton in the slot.
You get them a little bit closer to the line,
You get them to play physical against the run, really
as like a linebacker type of body. But also, I
don't want to take anything away from the wins, but
you played the Jets, the Browns, the Vikings, and the Dolphins,
not exactly the greatest stretch of offenses in the NFL
so Kyle Hampton. I think he exited the game maybe

(01:01:56):
twice against the Jets for being banged up. I think
he ends up being healthy and assuming that he's gonna play,
but maybe take it to him a little bit, you know,
at that physical level where I mean, he's an awesome
run defender. So I'm not saying that you're gonna get
positives all the time. But you know, let's see, are
you going to be able to as a safety type
body play in the box for you know, thirty forty
that's a game.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
You point out that if you look at the Bengals
Jets game, Derrick Henry just a nineteen percent rushing success
rate right the first game of the season, and granted
he had a big fumble in that game, but they
lose to Buffalo. Derreck Henry was awesome in that game.
I feel like when I've watched him since, that hasn't
so much been the case. Meanwhile, Lamar Jackson hasn't been himself.

(01:02:35):
Not sure he's totally healthy. What's missing from the Ravens
offense this year?

Speaker 5 (01:02:40):
Yeah, I think those two things are tied together quite well,
because I don't think Lamar Jackson is one hundred percent healthy.
I don't think he's able to like be a conciston. Hey,
we're gonna lean on you for fifteen carries every single game,
and if you're not able to do that, sometimes it
ends up closing some of the lanes for Derreck Henry.
So I it's been interesting to see this offense definitely

(01:03:00):
take a little bit of a step back and it
feels like on the outside, yes, a flowers and had
a good year, but I'm just not sure that this
receiving group like really strikes a ton of fear in
your heart. So if you're able to win over you know,
the left guard, the right guard, where I think you
can take advantage of this offense and you're able to
tackle Henry, you know, just at our near the live
of Scream, which I think is going to be a
real test for the Bengals linebackers. But yeah, I think

(01:03:23):
even at a team that is probably I guess is
gonna win the AFT North because we have to give
the AFC North Championship to someone this season. They're not
really a They're not I think making me shake in
my boots.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Yeah, you know, that's that's the thing, man. You know,
if you're Baltimore, you go, Okay, put the Bengals away.
They should be able to beat Pittsburgh twice. I don't
think the Steelers are very good. H we'll see, Sean sayed.
Statson scheme newsletter shows up in your inbox every Monday
and Thursday. What will folks see when they subscribe?

Speaker 5 (01:03:51):
He had advanced game previews and game reviews for every
single game across the entire season, really specific type stuff,
whether it's hey, how is this team doing against the Bliss?
How is this quarter back doing under pressure? You get
the best storylines from across the NFL.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
And then suomer sports dot Com, which there's a lot there,
but you and I have talked about sumer Brain. For
folks who haven't tried it yet, what are they going
to get when they try it?

Speaker 7 (01:04:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:04:12):
Try it out.

Speaker 5 (01:04:13):
It's free. You can type in any question that you have.
You'll get these advanced data points right back to you.
Whether you want to look up, hey, how is the
Bengals offense done without Joe Burrow on the field, which actually,
Joe Blackow, I'm not talking about you, Joe Blackham. You
can look up things like how the Raven's done out
of certain steps and really get sensitting information to help
you as you head into the weekend.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
Suomer Sports dot com it's an awesome website. So is
Cincinnati Magazine dot com. Robert Wintraub writes a weekly Bengals
magazine for that website. You'll hear him next. This is
the RNL Carriers Pregame sports Talk Show presented by your
Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers. It's the RNL Carriers
Pregame Sports Talk presented by Your Raider, Cincinnati and Northern

(01:04:54):
Kentucky Toyota Dealers. On Maleger the Bengals playing on Thanksgiving.
Bengals playing the Baltimore Ravens trying to break a four
game losing streak to Baltimore. Haven't beaten the Ravens since
that playoff game featuring the the Rumble in the Jungle.
That's what we call it, right, the Hubbard yard Dash
by the great Sam Hubbard. Bengals won that playoff game

(01:05:15):
early in the twenty twenty three calendar year. Twenty twenty
two season, they have lost the last four meetings ever since.
Let's take a look at what happened on this date
in Cincinnati sports history. It is brought to you by
Pella Windows and Doors making life brighter. Pella Now pay later.
I got five significant occurrences on November twenty seventh in

(01:05:41):
Cincinnati sports history. They're actually all Bengals games, starting with
the game in nineteen seventy seven between the Bengals and
New York Giants. This game, for I guess about four
plus years, was considered the coldest game in Bengals history.
We all know, oh what then became the coldest game

(01:06:02):
in Bengals history the freezer Ble eighty one AFC Championship game.
But November twenty seventh, nineteen seventy seven, that game at
Riverfront Stadium held the title Winshills dipped to nine below.
There were mounds of snow on the field that accumulated
throughout the afternoon, but the Bengals played great. Billy Brooks
scored a couple of touchdowns as Cincinnati beat the New

(01:06:22):
York Giants thirty to thirteen. It was on this date,
November twenty seventh, nineteen eighty eight, the Bengals ran for
two hundred and thirty two rushing yards in a thirty
five to twenty one win over the Buffalo Bills. It
dropped Buffalo to eleven to two and prevented the Bills
from clinching home field advantage throughout the AFC playoffs, which

(01:06:44):
the Bengals would go on to claim. It was a
really good Buffalo defense that season, but the Bengals rolled
up four hundred and fifty five total yards against Buffalo.
Prior to that, they had not given up more than
one hundred to one rushing yard in a single game.
It was on this date in two thousand and five,
Carson Palmer had three touchdown passes, the late great Rudy

(01:07:07):
Johnson ran for a couple of scores, and the Bengals
jumped out to a thirty four to nothing lead over
the Baltimore Ravens on their way to a forty two
to twenty nine home victory. The wins sent Cincinnati to
an eight and three record. It was on this date,
November twenty seventh, twenty eleven, the Bengals got two Mike
Nugent fourth quarter field goals and they improved a seven

(01:07:29):
and four with a twenty three to twenty win over
the Cleveland Browns. The Bengals would go on to make
the playoffs that year that was aj Green's rookie season
and Andy Dalton's rookie season. It was on this date
in twenty sixteen where Justin Tucker kicked four field goals
for the Baltimore Ravens and they would go on to
beat the Bengals in Baltimore by a score of nineteen

(01:07:51):
to fourteen, a tough loss for a Bengals team that
did not make the postseason that year. Bengals are getting
set to take on the ball Baltimore Ravens. That game
I just mentioned was a one o'clock Sunday game. It is.
It's kind of remarkable if you think about it, and
this was something that we talked a lot about, and
Joe Burrow himself talked a lot about around the schedule release.

(01:08:13):
Bengals are playing the Ravens on a short week on
a Thursday in prime time. This is the fourth consecutive
year the Bengals have now played the Ravens on a
Thursday night. Go back to twenty twenty two. They lose
in Baltimore that night on a last second field goal.
They lose in twenty twenty three on the game where

(01:08:34):
Joe Burrow injured his wrist and they lost a great
game last year thirty five thirty four, when the Bengals
failed to connect on a two point conversion in the
game's final minute after pulling within a score pulling within
a point in the final minute. So those results plus
the Bengals victory over the Pittsburgh Steelers at pay Corpse

(01:08:56):
Stadium this year, means that AFC North teams on Thursday
Night Football are now two and eighteen when they're on
the road. When they're on the road, that obviously includes
all those Bengals Ravens games of recent vintage and the
Bengals victory over the Pittsburgh Steelers earlier this year two
and eighteen on the road in the AFC North, when

(01:09:18):
teams play on a Thursday, let's salute the performer of
the week. It is brought to you by Crown Royal,
the official whiskey of the Bengals, bringing the spirit to
every game this season. I'm going to mention a guy
that I didn't think I would be mentioning in this
base five days ago. Geno Stone. Geno Stone has not

(01:09:39):
had a very good season. Geno Stone has not been
not proven to be a quality acquisition by the Bengals.
But he had a good game last week, had to
pick six, made a couple of nice plays on the
goal line, and so we'll give it to him. The
Bengals defense was slightly better. The tackling was better, safety

(01:10:00):
play was better. Geno Stone was better. Good for him,
good for Zach Taylor. If tonight he doesn't coach the
way he coached last week when he coached Scared, that
to me was the sequence that stuck in my crawl
after that game and into Monday and Tuesday was fourth quarter,

(01:10:20):
fourth and one at their own forty five yard line.
They had just passed the ball on third down. Didn't work.
They had run the ball effectively all afternoon. Instead of
passing on third and one and then calling a running
play on fourth and one, they tried the old dram
off sides with a hard count, see if we can

(01:10:42):
get a five yard penalty. When it didn't work, they
took a delay a game, and then Ryan Rico just
smashed the ball into the end zone for a touchback.
Bengals were three and seven going into that game. You
cannot coach scared and he, you know, he defended himself
to would agree his explanation didn't make a ton of
sense to me. They've got a defense that, while it

(01:11:05):
was better last week, is just not very good. Everything
about that situation, including the analytics, everything about that situation
screamed go for it. By the way, most NFL plays
gain yardage most of the time. The drawm off sides
play doesn't work, so it doesn't gain yardage. Lean on

(01:11:29):
what's gonna gain yardage? Not the old drawmaf sides play.
All right. I mentioned before we're gonna have Robert Wintroup
on the show, and I meant it. He is gonna
join us to talk about tonight's game and other Bengals
related issues. Next, this is the RNL Carriers pregame sports
talk show presented by your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota dealers.

(01:11:50):
It's an RNL Carriers pregame sports talk show presented about
your Cincinnati and you other Kentucky Toyota dealers on My Legger,
Angles and Ravens coming up tonight. Countdown to kickoff just
over an hour away at seven pm with Wayne box Miller.
Robert win Trump joins My show on Thursdays Today's Thursday
Cincinnati Magazine dot Com. He has a Bengals column that

(01:12:10):
he writes every single week, So uh, do this instead
of instead of, like, I don't know, talking about politics
with your family at the Thanksgiving table, read Robert's column
and then use that to come up with topics for
your Thanksgiving dinner conversation. There you go, Robert is kind
enough to join us. It's awesome to have you. Happy Thanksgiving, Robert,
how are you?

Speaker 8 (01:12:29):
Yes? And uh, you know, I've made a no Bengals
talk rule for this Thanksgiving on the house, just turkey only.
But then the Bengals schedule game that night, so it's
even that season.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Yes, yes, well hopefully hopelieve they don't ruin Thanksgiving. We
will see. I'm gonna start positive. I'm gonna start positive.
The Bengals did lose last week to the Patriots, but
at least we didn't come out of that game complaining
about the lack of effort on defense. That's fight. And
Joe Stone had a good game, like you know, the
walking Pinata. If I'm gonna beat him up when he's bad,
I got a credit on what he he's good. He
had a good game, had a pick six, made a

(01:13:01):
nice play of the goal line. Over All, the defense
wasn't perfect, but it was better. Can I can I
cling to the idea that they started to turn the
corner against the Patriots.

Speaker 8 (01:13:12):
Well, if you mean by they turned a corner into
the path of an on rushing car, then I guess
say that. Yeah. They're still historically bad. They are still
the worst team by DVOA through eleven games in DVOA history.
But they're right on the verge of catching those pesky
nineteen seventy nine forty nine ers, just a tenth of

(01:13:33):
a percentage point behind him. So one more good effort
and I think maybe they'll get out of that odious
last place there. Listen, did they play better on Sunday. Absolutely?
You know, they even showed Drake May kind of confused
a little bit, and I don't want to say he
was chasing ghosts or whatever the you know the term
is for a confused quarterback. But you know, he didn't

(01:13:54):
look like the MVP caliber guy that we were lit
he was. I put So, guys, we've written off, like
you said, g you know Stone, certainly, Miles Murphy had another,
you know, pretty solid game, and even Barry Carter made
a handful of decent plays, just generally, they combined what
they had been doing, which is running around like chickens
with their head cut off. They showed some situational awareness,

(01:14:16):
I think for the first time in a long long time,
and you know, married high energy, which you know, they
it's not like they had completely given up through most
of these games. They were trying. They were just using
the opposing teams were using that effort against them in
a lot of ways, and you know, demoralizing them by
using that energy against them so much. So now you know,

(01:14:39):
you kind of married that energy with actual execution, and
that's what you want to see. Now, you know, does
that mean they're going to hold the Ravens to nine points?
And when the game seems unlikely, does it mean that
we can count on a lot of these guys as
building blocks for twenty twenty six and beyond? Also likely?
But you know, it's at least something in I think
Al Golden is going to point to it and say, hey,

(01:15:01):
this is what we've been telling you guys all along.
See what happens when you actually listen to the message.
And I think that can only be a good thing
going forward. And you know, hopefully as the season plays
out at least we'll have, you know, a defense that
at least keeps the team in the game and doesn't
give it away completely week after week. And that's where
you saw this past Sunday and hopefully for the rest

(01:15:22):
of the year.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
I almost hate to do this because he did play
well last week, but Genostone has been mostly atrocious this season.
There's no getting around it. And so, you know, so
many of us have wondered like there's nobody else, Like
there's literally nobody else. And I watched Tyson Anderson play
on special teams and I see a guy who at
least makes makes tackles, and same for PJ. Jewels, and

(01:15:45):
so like, I get it. They're not being asked to cover,
but they're doing their jobs. And yet I get pushed
back when I say, like, try one of those guys
instead of Geno Stone, and I'm told, well, they're special
teams players. Why why can't Why can't? I thought, if
you excel on special teams, maybe you get a shot,
especially if there's a player who's in front of you

(01:16:05):
who's struggling, get a shot to play your you know,
natural position, so to speak. Why can't they use those
guys in safety?

Speaker 8 (01:16:12):
Yeah, it is a little hard to understand. I mean
I can under I know when you're talking about special
teams aces quote unquote, you know, the all time greats,
the Steve Taskers and the Renee Thompson's going back, you know,
or Matthew Slater. Guys like that who are so great
that you take them off special teams and ask him
to you know, sort of first apply it away from

(01:16:33):
what they're great at. So you don't want to do that.
But with the average ranking special team player, I think
back to a guy from the Bengals, like a Clayton
Fishdella remember him, Yeah, you know, kind of a decent safety,
had his moments, and you know he made his way
onto the team and into the lineup because he played
really good special teams. And I'm not saying Tyson Anderson
necessarily even assidlum, but when you have the guy playing

(01:16:56):
out there, as you say, who's been so bad and
a guy who you know he is only on the
team because he took a pay cut in the off season,
let's remember that, why not give Tyson a chance? Or
PJ Jewles. I mean, it's it's not like you're taking
away a guy who you know, you're all of a
sudden saying, hey, we gotta have you go play special teams,
and this guy who's been on the special team's unit

(01:17:18):
is not going to take your spot, and it's like
you're worried about him poisoning the clubhouse. I mean, the
ship has sailed. Let's get somebody in there or at
least is gonna try hard. And if it doesn't work
out and he gets lost in coverage and he picks
bad angles and doesn't make plays, lit'sten what if you
lost really at the end of the day. So it
does seem a little strange, especially in Anderson's case. Who's

(01:17:40):
you know, a drafted player at one point and a
guy who were at least thinking about counting on as
being a reserved depth player. To give him a chance,
and you say, maybe you catch lighting in a bottle
and next year he's so bad and having to place
the entire unit. Maybe at least you have one guy
you can say, like he could be a third or
four safety for us, and we feel good going into
the season. But you know, apparently they have their own

(01:18:03):
plan in place, and who will we questioning?

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
Of course that's right, yes, who are we to question
anything with Cincinnatimagazine dot com. Uh, if we were, if
we were to do this, we are doing it unscientifically,
like rank offensive lines roughly, where would the Bengals offensive
line b right now?

Speaker 8 (01:18:24):
Uh, they would be right where we've always kind of
wanted them to be in the Joe Barrow era, which
is middle of the pack, you know, I mean their
top ten and I think they're tied for tenth. And
pressure rate allowed. We have a stat called adjusted sack
average allowed, and they're you know, right there in the
top twelve. The running game, their success rate is very high.
They're still digging out from the early season in terms

(01:18:47):
of what we call adjusted line yards, which tries to
separate the line from the running back. But overall, the
running game has obviously been really good the last six
seven weeks, one of the best in football. So that
in the line clearly has a lot to do with that.
They're playing coherently as a unit. You can see it
on Sunday and given the fact and all the amount
of inks filled and talk made over the off season

(01:19:09):
about worrying about the guard play and how this line
was going to come together and what are they doing,
they've gotten what they have always wanted and what they
said they were going to get at you. I don't
think you can really say that, and certainly the way
they've played. Remember we talked about how it was a
ticking time bomb to put a guy like Joe Flacco
behind a line like this. Well, you know what, it
didn't work out. That why the line's played pretty well

(01:19:30):
and they scored a lot of points with Joe Flacco.
And they can certainly look at the line. It's not
a classically great line like the Bengals have fielded in
the past, and they certainly can look to upgrade at
certain spots and depth in the off season. But I
think they can certainly look at it and say, hey,
you know what, we've made a lot of strides. The
overall unit has played well. They've been healthy for the

(01:19:51):
most part, and when guys have had to come in
and play, they've done well too. It's been a decent
season from the offensive line. Who would have thought that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
Coming into the The only thing that I detest right
now more than my mother in law's Cranberry relish that
I'm being forced to eat today is the fourth and one.
Let's try to draw them off sides play and look.
I every team every week tries it. It works occasionally.
Bengals tried it. Tried it against Pittsburgh, it didn't work.

(01:20:19):
Tried it last week against New England from their own
forty five yard line in the fourth quarter, didn't work.
Delay a game penalty. You're an analytics guy, FTN fantasy.
Do do analytics? Maybe there's no answer to this, but
do analytics like the dreaded fourths and short let's try
to draw them off sides with a hard count play.

Speaker 8 (01:20:40):
Well, you're right, there is no real analytics for it
because it's really hard to discern what the intended outcome
of the play is. Most of the time, it's just
sort of a It's what the offensive coaches love more
than anything else, which is to play without any real
downside or consequences. The know, the worst that could happen
is he take it to play a game and just punt.
You are almost certainly planning to do anyway, right, And

(01:21:00):
I think the problem that you have with it is
most of the time it happens in the mission, like
you alluded to with the Bengals, you know, fourth and
one trailing the Pats and then a good spot to
make a fourth down conversion instead of just going for it,
which is what analytics does want you to do. Clearly
they don't want to, but they don't want to just
try it out. The punt team do a courus of

(01:21:20):
booze immediately, so instead they go through the motions of
doing the bake off side play and you know it
harready ever works. But it's sort of the offensive inverse
of the old you know what, three things can happen
when you throw a pass, and two of them are bad.

Speaker 2 (01:21:35):
You know, in this.

Speaker 8 (01:21:35):
Case, three things can happen and only you know one
of them is great. We can draw them off side.
So that's why I think offensive coaches continue to trot
it out there. But almost always it's a situation where
if you just go for it and you know, don't
mess around or even try and pretend like you're thinking
about doing something else or or you know, trying to
you know, it almost feels like you're buttson the other

(01:21:58):
team and their coaches and saying, hey, look, we screwed you.
Here are we geniuses. You know, just line up, get
the first down, or just punt it and be done
with it and trust your defense Obviously, the Bengals don't
trust either their defense or their ability to make a
fourth down play in that case, so it leads to
feeling like you do, which is like, this is horrible.
Why am I looking at this? And it tastes terrible?

(01:22:19):
Just like my Thanksgiving turkey while with that Cranberry I'm said.

Speaker 2 (01:22:24):
Yeah, love my mother in law, but the Cranberry relish,
and I've told this to her face, is truly atrocious.
I propose this, if you try the fourth and one,
you know, try to draw them off sides, and then
you have to take a delay a game, I think
the penalty should be like thirty yards. I think that
should be a competition Yes, the competition committee should review that.
There should be a steep penalty if you have to

(01:22:45):
take a delay a game penalty after trying the dreaded
fourth and one, try to draw them off sides. Play
your thoughts on that, well.

Speaker 8 (01:22:52):
You know, we've talked about this in various other incarnations
of other plays, and especially the Tush push I think
comes to mind. It's it's bad viewing experience. You know,
it's a bad it's bad television. Who wants that?

Speaker 7 (01:23:03):
You know?

Speaker 8 (01:23:03):
We know what's happening. We know what everybody's doing, so yeah,
make there have some consequences. Like I say, it's a
risk free play for the offense, and we shouldn't have those.
We should have plays that you know, both teams have
something to gain and lose. So if you don't make it,
you don't get the defense to jump fifteen yards and
you know, a loss of a timeout or something like that. Yeah,
something that would really make the offense think about going

(01:23:26):
forward and more often, which is you know what we
all want to see anyway, and make the game more exciting.
This just lessens the excitement of your regular game, and
who wants that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
I'm in favor of relinquishing draft picks, maybe relinquish a
whole game next year, a fine for the head coach,
like I want the penalty to be steep. So we'll
see if they if they put that on the on
the agenda this offseason. Awesome stuff. Has always enjoyed the
game tonight. Have a great Thanksgiving and we'll talk to
you next week.

Speaker 8 (01:23:52):
Absolutely, and to you two and everybody out there, Happy Thanksgiving.

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
Robert Wintrob writes a weekly Bengals column for Cincinnati Magazine
dot com Go and read it now. Robert is Awesome
joins us every Thursday on ESPN fifteen thirty. We have
just over an hour ago, getting a set for countdown
to kickoff at seven pm. Let's talk about a guy
who's not going to be on the field tonight for
the Bengals, and it's not t Higgins that coming up

(01:24:16):
back to the top of the hour news. This is
the RNL Carriers pregame sports Talk show presented by your
Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers.

Speaker 1 (01:24:29):
This is the R and L Carriers pregame sports Talk
presented by your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota Dealers. Pregame
sports Talk is brought to you by Skyline Chilly feeling Good.
It's Skyline Time, a door and twindow company. They sell
the best and service the rest OnCore technologies. Visit OnCore

(01:24:50):
dot Tech. Postman Law Injured call eight four to four
Postman Others promise Postman delivers your Cincinnati Northern Kentucky Toyota dealers.
For all the latest offers, go to Toyota dot com
and by R and L Carriers, visit RLC dot com.
Had to make R and L Carriers, your global transportation provider,

(01:25:13):
and now pre game sports Talk.

Speaker 7 (01:25:16):
Let me go.

Speaker 2 (01:25:17):
This is the RNL Carriers pregame Sports Talk, presented by
your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky Toyota dealers. It's the Power Hour,
the final hour, as we get said, for the Bengals
and Ravens. Tonight. Wayne box Miller takes over with countdown
to kickoff at seven pm. Kickoff tonight is at eight
twenty with Dan Hord and Dave Lapham. Austin Elmore has
postgame Sports Talk after the locker Room report. There is

(01:25:39):
a lot going on. I have a feeling right now
this is the hour. If you're a Bengals fan, you've
been stuffing your face all day, You've got a long
night in front of you with an eight twenty game.
I would imagine there are folks listening to me right
now who have drifted asleep, and that's usually an indictment
against me. Today, maybe not so much. If you have
drifted asleep in your drive, that's a problem, So hopefully

(01:26:01):
that's not the case. Nonetheless, there's a lot of ground
to cover between now and seven o'clock. We'll go to
Baltimore coming up in just about fifteen minutes. The storyline
tonight Joe Burrow is back. One of the storylines the
Bengals travel issues. This has been reported Cincinnati sat in
a plane for like five and a half hours last
night on the tarmac and CVG and didn't get to

(01:26:22):
Baltimore until shortly before midnight, didn't get to their hotel
until about twelve thirty. How much of that is a
factor tonight? I have no idea. I would like to
think the answer is none. But Burrow is back, and
we've talked about how good he was against Baltimore last year. Look,
we've all looked at different playoffs simulators. Some of us
use Vegas odds. The bengals chances of making the postseason

(01:26:45):
are minuscule, roughly one percent in some models, a little
bit less than one percent. But but if they can
get a win tonight, they can at least put one
foot in the conversation about getting to the postseason. Win tonight,

(01:27:06):
and look, nobody is saying this is likely. The Bengals
have lost eight out of nine games. Their defense all
season long has been atrocious. I have no idea. I
have a decent idea what to expect from Joe Burrow,
but he's a little bit of a wildcard because of
the fact that he hasn't played since Week two. A
team that has lost eight out of nine games is

(01:27:28):
gonna have to win out win their last six, which
includes Baltimore twice and Buffalo on the road. That said,
that said, and I know you're shaking your head. Win
tonight two games behind a five hundred Baltimore team, and
there's at least a decent chance that Pittsburgh, which has

(01:27:50):
lost four out of six, is gonna lose to Buffalo
this weekend. So your two teams in first place in
the AFC North will be five hundred teams, neither looking
like they're capable of running away with it. Meanwhile, if
the Bengals win tonight, that's a three to one division record.
They'll have a head to head win against Baltimore. You
know this is we say it all the time. It's

(01:28:10):
about surviving and advancing. Just get me the next week
where we can start to look at the Ravens and
Steelers schedules. Heck, we could do it now. Let's just
look at Baltimore real quick. Okay, So Ravens right now
sit there at six and five, they've won five straight games.
If the Bengals can beat them tonight, the Ravens still

(01:28:30):
have to play the Steelers twice. They've got a game
against New England, who's won nine straight. They have a Packers,
they have a game against the Packers, one more against Cincinnati.
They're not running the table. They're not running the table.
Now that the question would then become do they get
to ten wins? If they lose tonight, they would have

(01:28:52):
to win four out of five to get to ten wins.
In the absence of that, they're sitting there at nine
or fewer. We really need the Ravens and st to split.
Pittsburgh has Buffalo this weekend, the two games with Baltimore,
they have a game against Detroit, and they have games
against Miami and Cleveland. The Bengals have six remaining games.
I believe they'll be favored in at least three of them.

(01:29:15):
And we'll see about that Baltimore game here on December
the fourteenth. But you win tonight three and one in
the division game in hand against Baltimore. If you lose tonight,
you're three and nine, and to kind of paraphraser quote
Dan Horde, it's coffin nails. We start talking about next year.

(01:29:36):
So if you lose in your three and nine, it's
four out with five to go. Plus I have a
head to head loss against Baltimore like ballgame win tonight.
Not that it's likely, not that it's exceptionally plausible, but
it would be at least a little bit plausible. Let's
take a look at who's hot in the NFL. It

(01:29:57):
is brought to you by Plumptight Fast Response Time, no
service fees. The hottest team in the NFL is when
we saw last week the New England Patriots. New England
did not come out of that game unscathed. They are
suddenly dealing with a lot of different injury issues, but
they've won nine straight games. They're undefeated on the road.
They have a two and a half game lead over

(01:30:18):
the Buffalo Bills in the AFC East. I think the
most interesting franchise in the sport, though, is the La Rams,
who have won six straight. They're nine and two. They
won that show down with the Seahawks. The NFC West.
La is nine and two, a game lead over Seattle.
San Francisco is sitting there at eight and four. Kyle
Shanahan has worked miracles this year with all the injuries.

(01:30:41):
But the Rams have I think the most balanced team
in the NFL, no real deficiencies. And I'm not the
first person to talk about this, but this is worth mentioning.
So the Bengals lose to the La Rams in the
Super Bowl after the twenty twenty one season, right and
remember how they built that team. They acquire Matthew Stafford

(01:31:02):
f them picks. They just mortgage their future, trade away
all their picks for players who can help them right now.
And I remember the conversation. It was like, Man, if
this doesn't work, holy crap. Not only will they have
not won a title, but they're gonna be bad for
a while. Well guess what they were bad for a year?
They went five and twelve the year after the Bengals
lost to the Rams in the Super Bowl. Since then,

(01:31:23):
they have made the postseason every year. Right now, should
be considered favorites in the NFC. It's remarkable. It's remarkable
what happens when you have a creative GM, an elite
head coach. Matthew Stafford's in the MVP conversation this year,
we talk a lot about, well, the Bengals need to
accumulate draft choices, and we've done that this year. We've

(01:31:43):
talked about that with regards to t Higgins today, Pukin
Nakua was a fifth round pick, might be the best
receiver in the NFL. Maybe it's not so much how
many picks you have, it's what you do with them.
So the Rams haven't had a lot of picks. The
ones they have had, they have used, and they've used successfully.

(01:32:03):
The Rams are an interesting story, by the way. They're
that block kick against the Eagles away from being ten
and one this season. Matthew Stafford's an interesting story. Matthew
Stafford's an interesting case for the Hall of Fame because
at no point during his time would you say he's
like the best quarterback in the NFL or one of
the best two quarterbacks in the NFL. But he's got

(01:32:24):
a ring, he's played forever, I think, beloved by fans
of two different franchises, and he's got a damn good
chance for a second one. We will see. Rams are
red hot right now with the f them picks strategy
paying off, paying off in the short term and paying
off in the long term. Rams are going to be
in the playoffs for a third consecutive year. Meanwhile, we

(01:32:47):
are getting set for the Bengals and the Baltimore Ravens.
And by the way, like the Duke Tobin conversation which
we have had for weeks and will have in the
ensuing weeks, it's it's not about we talk about like
firing people, letting coaches go, letting gms go, and I
think sometimes it gets framed as somebody's going to take

(01:33:08):
the fall. We gotta blame somebody. It's not that. Do
you trust Duke Tobin? The Bengals undertaking with their defense
this offseason is going to be massive. It should have
been massive last year. It's a simple question, do you
trust Duke what they've done to build the defense. They've
had to use the draft. That's not going to change

(01:33:30):
what they did to fix the defense after the twenty
nineteen season, when they overpaid for DJ Reader, by the way,
they had to, and it worked out. When they paid
a lot of money to Trey Hendrickson, when they signed
Shoudobie Wuzia, when they paid Mike Hilton and Von Bell,
they threw money at the defense because they didn't have
any good players and their quarterback was about to be
on a rookie contract. That way of building a defense

(01:33:53):
is not going to be how they build the defense
moving forward. The way they build the defense moving forward
is going to have to be how they've built this
year's defense via the draft and some not that expensive
free agent signings. Do you trust Duke Tobin to be
able to do that when he has failed so far?
I don't know how the answer is yes. We're gonna

(01:34:14):
head to Baltimore talk about the Ravens and why they've
turned their season around after starting one to five. That
is coming up next. This is the RNL Carriers pregame
sports talk show, presented by your Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky
Toyota Dealers