November 4, 2025 • 43 mins
Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us to discuss the Logan Wilson trade to Dallas, Trey Hendrickson, Duke Tobin's future, the crappy Cincinnati defense, and more.
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Podcasts of The Mo Egger Radio Show are a service of Longnecks Sports Grill.
Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now your chance to win one thousand dollars. Enter this
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Speaker 2 (00:08):
You found Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
We half what's up to afternoon mallegor ESPN fifteen thirty.
Thanks for listening today. Hopefully we're having like the most
awesome Tuesday of all time.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
It is gorgeous out.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
We're at Oakley Greens, which is where we are every
single Tuesday. We're here till five thirty today.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Out of the way early.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
We've got UK basketball coming up, the Wildcats beginning year
two of the Mark Pope era against Nichols. Nichols State,
I believe says in our scheditule Nichols tip off at
seven o'clock. Bumps us out of the way with pregame
show at five thirty. We have a lot of ground
to cover. The NFL trade deadline is fifty five minutes away.
(00:50):
We'll do some MC Cincinnati stuff in the four o'clock hour,
some college hoops stuff as well. Show preview is available
on Twitter at moegar. Thanks to share Effects Credit Union,
become a member now at share fact dot org. If
you haven't been to Oakley Greens. Yet I do not
know what you're waiting for. I will say this, it
is impressive, you know, like I hang Christmas lights up
in my house and it's it's me and it's maybe
(01:11):
a step stool, and it's not that big of a production.
We have like an entire crew here. There's ladders coming out,
there's a big van, there's stringing the lights out in
the parking lot. Like it is gonna be impressive here
by the time they're done. And so could you can
have a holiday party, a holiday happy hour, you know,
the holiday season. One might argue it's already here. I
would combat that a little bit, but it's certainly coming.
(01:34):
You could do your holiday party in one of these
cabanas if the weather allows, or you could just post
up inside. You can get a game of mini golf in,
you can get dinner. We've got an outdoor bar and
indoor bar. You cannot beat Oakley Greens. It's in Oakley,
so keep that in mind when you punch it in
your GPS. Oakley Greens, we thank them for having us
awesome for watch parties. You could have a Bengals free
(01:56):
Sunday and watch all the good teams play and see
teams that when they score forty points win the football game.
Chances are pretty decisively. Could watch all those games at
Oakley Greens. You can watch FC Cincinnati on Saturday in
the playoffs against Columbus. A great time will be head
at Oakley Greens. A great time has always had. When
our friend Paul Danner Junior joins us. He is busy,
he's on trade deadline, Watchtheathletic dot Com, the Growler podcast.
(02:20):
You have a lot going on. I'm thrilled that you're here.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah, I'm happy to be here. This is always one
of my favorite ones every year where I'm like, please
don't make me work during this.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
But I mean, but I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
In most years, i'm just already under the assumption that
the ship has sailed and that and and I've kind
of thought I would feel that way today, But when
things start happening like they have today, you kind of
throw all preconceived notions out for a minute and say, Okay,
the NFL is.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Doing crazy things.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Yeah, so maybe a crazy thing could happen, but I'm
not counting on it right now.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
But the NFL is a little unhinged at the moment. Well,
Logan Wilson has gone, yeah, that did happen.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
He's been traded by the Cowboys to the or by
the Bengals to the Dallas Cowboys. So he goes from
one awful defense to another slightly less awful defense. Bengals
get a seventh round pick in exchange for Logan. The
barometer for any Bengals trade, or any Bengals maneuver where
they cut a player is whether or not on the
press release there's a quote from somebody, and Logan got
(03:23):
a quote from Zach.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Taylor And what level did this come from? This wasn't
gonna be a Mike Brown.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
No, the Mike Brown is top of the line. Uh yeah,
you know, I'm still I'm not. It's certainly not surprising
when you consider his situation. It is surprising when you
consider the Bengals breaking from history.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Again.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
You know, we've never really seen them, you know, do
many in season.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Trades, trades hardly at all.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Then this year, not only did they for the first
time trade with the Browns and go get the quarterback
in Joe Flacco, but now, for the first time ever,
they trade away someone who could help them this year
that hadn't sort of blown up their way out of town.
I don't know, however you view the trade request issued
by Logan.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I didn't feel like it was anything.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
It's certainly in the vicinity of Carlos Dumbmap or Carson Palmer,
but I think it's a recognition of this might be
just an addition by subtraction. And I don't mean that
as Logan is not a good player. It's look, they've
chosen to go down this road. We're going down this
road with Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight. And I actually
(04:32):
felt like Zach Taylor essentially announced this trade at the
press conference on Monday when he went onto a long
spiel about Sam Hubbard and the analogy about Sam Hubbard
not really feeling able to put himself out there and
really become a leader early in his career because Carlos
and Gino were in the room with him, and who
(04:52):
is he to speak up? And even though he had
a lot of respect and people understood who he was
and he worked hard and he was everything they wanted
to be about going forward, he could read the room
and see, that's not my place.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
To say anything.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
You gotta get those guys out of there for the
if you want the young people to then grow up.
And and I feel like the benching was the beginning
of this, and now this trade is the finalization of this,
of saying, we just want these guys to be our future,
and we think leadership traits is part of that. And
you know, I talked to Barrett today and he said,
(05:24):
you know, to that idea, to that question, the idea
of like, yeah, yeah, I did feel like.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I need to read the room.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
I you know that guy loves Logan Wilson, right, I
mean her, He professed that openly today. Is like it's
gonna be for life what he did for me, and
he was the first person to text him, and so
many things, A ton of respect you. I had so
much respect you. I'm not gonna step on that guy's toes. Yeah,
you you feel a little bit of a need to
go and now you can more fill that space. I
(05:52):
also thought he said the right thing with that of like,
but it starts with playing better, Like you have to
play better. And the truth is, no one's fotollowing anybody
that plays terribly anywhere. Okay, so until that starts, until
they start actually playing better, none of this other stuff matters.
But you know, maybe that if they're hoping that they'll
start playing better and then they'll feel a little bit
(06:14):
more open to let the other stuff start to show
a little more.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Well, and if you could add a seventh round pick
obviously to the arsenal of selections the Bengals will have
next year, it's just it's just more damage they can
do in the draft.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
It's something yeah, right, yeah, let's let's go down the
what's your favorite seventh round pick?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Right, let's go down not Kyle Manogi or right, I
mean a guy how do we say his name? Manangay, Manangay,
Thank you, Kyle Manangai. That that's my least favorite seventh
round pick of all the time.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Pretty good, yeah, pretty good.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
You know it can apparently run for a lot of
yards when they're there available to them.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I could run for a lot of yards against this defense.
So we'll tap the brakes on that just a little bit.
But there's my least round pick. Yeah, that's that's that's fair.
You were an oudentate guy at one point.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
No I was not no, no I was. I was
a T. J. Hushman zaa guy he was a seventh
round pay.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
That's I think that's a lot of people's favorite seventh
round paper.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
So the deadline is forty nine minutes away. By my calculation,
you have done Tuesday with me for eleven years. I
think that's accurate. Yeah, it's eleven years, So that's eleven
trade deadline Tuesdays. Usually we barely mention it. Yeah, I
detect from you a little pensiveness, Yeah, a little bit
(07:30):
the deadline, like a little bit.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Maybe something could happen.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Maybe, I don't know, Like I just think the the
nature of today in the NFL keeps me a little
bit more on edge, in the fact that teams are
hunting and calling about Trey Hendrickson.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I had.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
The Bengals have been pretty resolute. I've never gotten the
feeling during this and I've written it that they were
ever gonna do that. Yeah, but I think that's because
they knew their asking price would continue to be the
same number that no one has ever been willing to meet.
And so if the league is now doing things where
people are throwing around first round picks, then maybe maybe
(08:08):
that could you could see a desperation move come from somebody,
And we knew anybody that is close to this team
knows that that was the only thing that was gonna happen.
Here would be a desperate, a desperation move where the
Bengals feel like they would be pretty big winners in
a deal. Because here's the thing, and I've said this
a million times and why this has never made sense
to me, and it would be the all it would
(08:30):
be the ultimate change is they're just not gonna wave
the white flag on the season, whether you think they
should or not. I just don't see a world where
right now they're gonna wave the white flag on this season.
Giving up Trey Hendrickson would be saying it's over, we quit,
we're not trying. That has never been their philosophy. That
(08:52):
has never been something they would ever allow or really
stand for. Yeah, the Logan Wilson thing is like, again
I talked about it, but it's like it's like a
tiny version of the tiniest version of that.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
That's a small departure.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
B It's why they've never made in season trades giving
up someone who can help them because they're just not
gonna wave the white flag in any capacity. So for
that reason is why it's never really felt like something
was going to happen here because Trey Hendrickson is the
one guy that can actually make things look different on
the defensive side of the ball. If Trey plays in
(09:29):
the second half the last four weeks, they the last
two weeks even they probably win both those games. He's
a closer. It's literally the one still they needed. Yes,
the one skill they made the last two weeks was
what he is, maybe as good at as anybody in football.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Has been here. He has closed out for years.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Remember, you know, Joe Burrow and quarterback, come on Trey, like,
you know what time it is. The last two weeks,
it's been Trey time, and he hasn't been out there.
And they don't have anybody who is remotely like him
or even you know, his New Orleans version of himself.
They don't have anything that looks like that, and so
(10:10):
the games have ended the way they have. I feel
like if they had a full Trey Hendrickson out there,
they would have finished both of those games off and
would be in a different place.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
They didn't. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
But if you're talking about like how could the second
half look different? I look at the on off splits
this year from Trey Hendrickson when he's on the field
this year and when he hasn't been.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And really this goes back because isn't just.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
The shit, they're just massive. They're two different, totally different defenses.
And so when we talk about all these historical futility
in the second halves and games in a hole, but
certainly in the second halves, we've seen this over and
over again. Trey Hendrickson with zero second half snaps the
last four weeks because he's gotten hurt in the first
(10:55):
half of the two games he tried to play him.
And you see the difference. You see what's happening, and
they just don't have any answers regardless. No one's saying
they'd be great, no one's saying they'd even be serviceable.
But it could be enough to win when you score
forty two, right, and I just don't see them saying
we're gonna take that chance off the table.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
That's that's what's felt like.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
The biggest driver for me in the conversation around him
before the last you know, forty eight hours.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
So we've seen Sauce Gardner get traded by the Jets
to the Colts. Two first rounders involved is that move
in particular the one that is giving you slight pause
as it relates to what they may do with Trey.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Yeah, I mean I think both jets. I mean the
Quinn Williams to Dallas, which I have a thought on
at some point if you want to hear it. Yeah,
But like I think that that is the thing that Okay,
teams are out here. You know, there's right, it's the
it's the FM Pick's mentality Storry with three. I think
there's there's lots of the Jags. Like, there's just teams
(11:58):
that are just so much more will to say, you
know what, let's go now.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
It feels accessible.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
The super Bowl feels on the table for Seattle, for Indianapolis,
for Dallas at three five and one. You know they're
sitting here saying, let's go for it now. Sauce and
Quinn in The difference for them is they're under contract
for multiple years and Hendrickson is clearly a rental. But
if a team feels like they really want it that,
(12:24):
I think that gives you pause when you see the
aggressiveness level happening.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
It's a sense.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Around the league that the Super Bowl can be taken by.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
A team that makes the right move today.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Is Trey the only current Bengal that's on your radar
as it relates to a possible deal, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
I think so.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
I mean there are others that I mean, there's really
very few players I wouldn't I mean, I wouldn't trade
DJ Turner.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
No, and that might be it on defense, right, like, oh,
on defense? That is it? Yeah, I'm not. The list
is DJ Turner. The list is DJ Turner.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
I'm keeping Uh, that's and that's pretty much, you know,
that's probably it I would listen to. I mean, you
would think maybe somebody like Osai or a bj Hill would.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Have some kind of if anybody was just looking for
depth or whatever.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Yeah, maybe, I mean McKinley Jackson, our teams beating down
the Bengals not quite hadn't seen that yet.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Look, still still still poking around, though there's still time.
We got forty two minutes for the the Jackson rush.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Would then this might be a stupid question. Would a
Cam Taylor Britt or a Dax Hill illicit interest from
a team that's like, you know what, they're still upside,
we can fix them.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Yeah, I think Dax would. I think there's enough there
with Dax and and maybe maybe someone would look at
Cam and say, give me a shot. Maybe maybe that's
where lou Ana Rumo's conversation started with Chris Ballard in Indianapolis.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
He's like, look, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
If you can't get me Cam, I guess okay, right,
Like I guess we'll just google go that way. Maybe
that's how that began. But yeah, I think that there
would be I don't know. I don't think so. I mean,
it's it's hard for how does anybody watch the tape? No,
you know, and it's like, I think that's gonna put
(14:16):
us over the top. No, there are none.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
I mean, but I there are times where a move
is made involving a player where you're like, man, that
guy's no good, and the team that acquired to me go, okay,
they must have had a great grade on them, and
they think in a different system they can get more
out of them. And Cam, Taylor, brid and Dax Hill
struck me as players that someone may view through that lens.
But I certainly didn't wake up this morning think they're
(14:40):
gonna trade me one of those guys.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
No, And you know, I mean, you know, the Cam
roller coaster is well documented. I think they feel like
maybe they're on one of those good upswings with Cam today.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
A lot of ball to go.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Yeah, yeah, No, we know what comes up. It's like
when the chain's pulling you up the hill. It's not stopping. Okay,
it doesn't just keep going up into the clouds. We
know that we.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Know what comes on the other side.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
But I think that there's a feeling like, Okay, maybe
there's some stability with with dj and and Dax and
if they can start to get CAM back on the
right track at least for right now.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
But that's all. That's kind of a separate story.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Forty one minutes away from the trade deadline.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Oh, Ken, you need like a clock sounder, a tick sounder.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
In years past, I think we've had Tarren play some
sort of obnoxious you know, horn Blair or something that
we could we can get that And no, you.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Don't want I'm not a horn Blair guy. No, it
has to get people's attention. I just think a little clock,
there's a little ticking, that's all.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Do you want the ticking in the background for the
duration of the top of your I mean maybe going
maybe something in some of your buyers tear little teasers
that you do. Taryn Tarren producing back and Ken we'll
he'll have something ready for us. It is twenty minutes
after three o'clock trade deadline. Is it for Paul Danner Juniors?
Speaker 1 (15:55):
With us? Till then?
Speaker 3 (15:56):
We are here at Oakley Greens until five thirty today,
hanging out on a gorgeous Tuesday afternoon on ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
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Speaker 2 (16:42):
This report is sponsored by This is Football in the NATI,
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Skyline Chile on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of
the Cincinnati Bengals five after three o'clock.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Bolegger with Paul Danner Junior
from the Athletic dot Com and the Growler podcast, which
I get to be a part of tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, that's fun. Tomorrow Trade deadline recap, Yeah, sort of thing. No,
just no, I think.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Jay and I are are doing live tonight at seven thirty, okay,
and we're gonna do trade deadline stuff and the normal
PD and Jay.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
So I can watch that on YouTube to catch up.
And now then I'm we're just gonna see where you
and I go tomorrow. That's why those are my favorite shows.
Those are my favorite shows with you and when when
we just sort.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Of turn the mics on and and just go with
a discuss this.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Let's see where this goes.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
So it's Trade Deadline right four o'clock.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
With every passing minute, I see you looking more and
more relaxed.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
I'm getting I'm getting there. I'm getting there. It's always
nerve racking.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Who is making the decisions for the Bengals today in
the front office it's Duke Tobin. Yes, who will be
making the Bengals decisions tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Duke Tobin was making the Begals decisions. Smile.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk says, quote, there's bubbling up
now the duke Tobin is going to be out, maybe
during the bye week.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Maybe suoner heads are gonna roll in Cincinnati. What do
I do with that?
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Well, first, I didn't know it was Floria season already.
That we had to go said, yeah, he's like a
he he's like a winter guy.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Combine, Yeah, yeah, you need the first snowfall till it's Floria.
It's a little early.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
I will say, if there was one person on earth
that would not know.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
This answer, it might be Mike Floria.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
But I just you know, I don't think that he
has connections inside of the building that way. I I
do not look that we're in We're in the chaos
times right now. Okay, this is there's a lot going
on in terms of the team. Has we haven't seen
(18:59):
it be in this shape. You know, the last time
it was in this shape.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
The move was about Marvin Lewis.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
And they made the move, and you know, it was
sixteen years and so much of that and then things
were it was the good times.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
It was the good old days after that.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
So we haven't really Duke has never been in the
crosshairs like this, and his role has never really been
challenged at any level like this. In terms of that,
I don't you know, it just feels that feels like
(19:37):
an aggressive thing to say.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
First of all, as soon as.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
The bye week is literally right now, So you're saying
this person could be fired anytime from today to the
end of the earth. Okay, as soon as right now
he could be fired, and then anytime after that. Right,
I think that there's Yes, he's under the microscope. You
(20:03):
and I have talked about, talked about this last week.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yes, So I.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Don't like, I don't want to have to keep doing
this every week. I understand that we have to right
now because of you know what Mike said, But like
I just feel like, yes, there is more focus. Yes,
I think there's more cracks here than we've ever seen,
but it's just would still be so stunning. He's still
(20:27):
part of everything they believe in as an organization and
what he's been such a central part of everything there.
I think everything is on the table right now because
of the nature of we've just never seen anything quite
like this, and you've put it perfectly I've heard.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
You talk about this multiple times.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Of look like, this is your job to fix this defense,
and it's just gotten so much worse. It feels so unrecoverable.
And it's all because of so many of these picks
are not panning out. And at what point and the
free agent things that have happened, Like, at what point
does all of this just pile up where it's just
(21:10):
for the betterment of everybody that you try doing something different.
I think the logical side of it is no one
is gonna contend with that. It's just the reality side
of what it actually happened. I'm not buying that just yet.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
I'm just not.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
But you know that anybody can, anybody can say that
things are bubbling up, and no one will care if
they don't, no one will call back to that.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
I think there's bubbling up amongst US fans. It's bubbling
up that's undeniable. Yeah, there's a pretty sharp difference between
bubbling up here with idiots like me and bubbling up
among people who are in a decision making capacity at
pay Court Stadium. Yes, and there's no distinction in what
(21:56):
Mike is referring to, Like bubbling up is that in Cincinnati,
their mad Duke Tobin.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yes, yes, the main roll. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
People aren't just gonna come out of this thing unscathed,
like obviously, but who is that?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I mean, there's there's levels to.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
This, as they say, I mean, and and I just
think that's, uh, that's a level that is I mean,
it takes unprecedented times and here we are, right, So
so I'm not I don't want to sit here and
rule anything out, but like it that doesn't it certainly
didn't land or really register with me as something that
(22:30):
I feel like.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Makes a whole lot of sense in this in this
exact way.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
I have a few questions kind of related to this specifically, Okay,
but I do want to get a break and let
me let me ask you this though before we pause.
So last week we talked about it feels like this
is really the first time where Duke Tobin is in
the public's crossairs, and you said, you know, this is
the first time, and I'm paraphrasing here, this is the
(22:57):
first time where it's plausible that maybe they do something,
but still so unlikely that if they did it, it would
be shocking. Would you frame it the same way after Sunday.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Yeah, I mean, you can only take so many of those.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, I mean, I still I still think that at
at the end of.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
The day, you know, there is a a patience and
a need to see everything play itself out.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
And maybe some people say it played out like we
saw it. You know, this is it. It's it's been,
it's played. But there's that's always that's always, even.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Going back to Marvin Lewis here, you know, I feel
like it's let's see the whole book. Mike in the
family are let's see the whole book before we judge it,
and let's not go in and so doing it now
before a lot of these young players that they're clearing
the decks for have a chance to show the level
of improvement they're looking for.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Would be again just crazy, out of character.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
And maybe that's what they I mean, there's a lot
of arguments about that's what they need. I think most
people would make those right now, but I'm trying to
speak in the reality of how realistic I think it is.
It would be stunning and out of characters still even
to me, even after even after.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
What happens, it's got twenty seven minutes counting it down.
Where's the ticker? I'm listening. I don't hear it. Terren's
working on it.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
He's working on it. He's trying to find that. They're
trying to find the ticker anything on this here internet.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Well, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
I don't have a joke, but terrens I'm sure he's
working on it.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Oh, yeah, he's got it.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Is twenty seven away from four o'clock and the trade deadline.
Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and the Growler podcast
Live tonight at seven thirty with Jay Morrison.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
There it is. Oh, look at that Commings. I knew
you'd come through Tarran, Yeah, I knew it. Man. If
that can happen, anything can.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Happen anything, literally anything. Possibilities are endless. Sports headlines coming
up were in Oakley Greens on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati
Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
You've been listening to football in the NATI, brought to
you by Cincinnati Tax Resolution powered by Tefe Sheldon on
ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
Here at since three sixty, there's no shortage of things
to talk about, whether it's the Bengals search for a quarterback,
the Bearcats Search for Supremacy or the Red Search for Offense.
Listen to since E three to sixty weekdays at noon
on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic from the.
Speaker 6 (25:49):
UC Health Traffic Center. The Lung Cancer Rapid Access Program
at the UC Cancer Center is built to give you
a care plan fast meet with a specialist. In today's
call five one three five eight five UCCC. On the
Ohio side of westbound two seventy five, there is a
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(26:10):
right lane blocked off on the ramp. What's their pike?
Also an accident at Oak Street in slow traffic northbound
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Speaker 3 (26:21):
This report is sponsored by Cheval home of lifetime powertrain
protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours
for life, Kelsey chev dot com. Logan Wilson has been
traded by the Bengals to the Dallas Cowboys, Cincinnati getting
a return a seventh round pick in the twenty twenty
sixth draft. Clearly that player will be a franchise altering acquisition.
(26:44):
The trade deadline is in twenty one minutes. We'll see
if Cincinnati acquires any more draft picks for Duke Tobin
to waste. Bengals have a bye this week. They're in
Pittsburgh week from Sunday. Take on the Steelers on ESPN
fifteen thirty. Former UC star Sauce Gardner traded by the
New York Jets to the Indianapolis Colts, where he gets
to be coached by lul Anarumo. In exchange, indiescends to
(27:06):
the Jets a pair of first round picks. Kentucky Basketball
tonight on ESPN fifteen thirty. Kentucky battling Nickel State pregame
show at five thirty. Tip all tonight at seven pm
right here on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Who you think won the battle between Duke Tobin and Louannarumo.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Mo hemo, This team is seven to two. I know
he gets to coach Sauce Gardner. I didn't have to
move very far.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
He just keeps getting great players thrown into his laugh.
He's on it. They keep winning.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
They don't have to be great defensively. They can do
lou Anarumo ben but don't break, which statistically they do.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
And then everything you want to happen.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
When you have a blow up that leads to you
leaving a job or you get fired, you just want
the other place to be in shambos stress. That's all
you want. You just want you all your former co
workers and friends. You want them to be calling you
being like, this is a disaster. You just want to
hear all the horror story. And so I just you
gotta feel like he just like goes he collects his
(28:04):
w cracks open a cold on the couch.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
He's like, let's watch some Bengals highlights.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Right like, and just sits up every Sunday night. Uh,
and then then waits for the call Chris Ballad to
tell them that they're giving him sauce Gardner. It's just
an embarrassment of riches for for lou over there right now.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
A few more questions about Tobin, okay, and maybe what
it would look like if they did move on. We
haven't had a de facto general manager search.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
What would that look like?
Speaker 4 (28:34):
I mean, well, I think you probably in the meantime,
you would probably have one of the three agms would
step in, right You'd have Trey Brown or Steve Orusivik
or Mike Potts, they're they're there right. Trey has has
notably interviewed for GM jobs across the league. He'd be familiar,
(28:55):
Like if you were doing something like that, you probably
would would start there and then open up. I don't know.
I mean, we've never and it's so this is the heart,
it's so gray. There's so much unknown onto what any
of this would look like. And truthfully too, like, you know,
(29:17):
is Mike gonna be like we need a new guy?
Like because there's it's a unique situation there where they
like Duke for the fact that they it's a very
tough relationship to manage with him and the family and
the football aspect and what Mike still does and what
(29:38):
he does and his role and all. It's just all
of it is really hard to step into and have
a feel for. So I I don't know that anybody
could sit here and say they would know what that
would actually look like, you know, because we haven't ever
(29:58):
really seen it.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
When this possibility has come up, even when it has
seemed extraordinarily unrealistic, many have countered with who would want
that job? Is that a fair way to look at
it because of what you just outlined.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
I think a lot of people would do you want
patients and job security?
Speaker 1 (30:21):
You know? I mean do you want?
Speaker 4 (30:22):
I mean they have when new head coach like Zach
Taylor is coming in, they have given him rain.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
To do a lot of things that he wanted to do.
They've been willing to make changes.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
They have been a bit adaptable as an organization, specifically
comparison to previous times.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
You have Joe Burrow like it's important.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Yeah, I mean, you have the hard stuff here in
place in a lot of ways, I don't think. And
the biggest problem that many gms in this league face
is feeling like they have to make moves for their
jobs and you don't have to do that here. You
can play the longer game the same way that Baltimore
(31:06):
and Pittsburgh do and and in the success that I
think that those two teams and the Bengals have had
in this division in comparison to like, you know, when
you see the the interchanging that happens with Cleveland or
a lot of other places that are unstable across the league.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Is part of what.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Would make a job like that one that people would
want everybody. Everybody has a challenging ownership situation in some way,
Like there's only so many openings that happen where it's like, oh,
but the ownership is just clean. It can be no
issues there. You're gonna that's that's that's the NFL man.
You gotta you got it the same way we used
(31:43):
to talk about this with Marvin Lewis and and and
the job is as much about managing up as it
is managing down. You have to be able to make
all sides work and get your vision across, like that's
gonna be part of that here, the same as it
would be in any market that has an NFL team
in America.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
One more on this and then I will ask about
other things. So Florio says heads will roll. You don't
disagree with that. So if Duke Tobin's head is not
the most likely to roll, whose head will be rolling?
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Well, I mean we know Zach Taylor is on the seat.
You have to be in some capacity. I mean we
talked about this the moment they let go of a Luannarumo,
like you only get to do this once. And so
I think that's clear.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Even with all the.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Things happening offensively that have been good. You know, he's
not gonna to me. We're at the point where you're
not judging him for that as much.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
We've established that you can have good.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Offenses, yes, and you can do it apparently with multiple
quarterbacks that both times he's been given backup quarterbacks besides
Joe Burrow. It's been remarkable what they've been able to
do offensively. What they're doing right now is a masterclass.
But the bottom line is, and you know, I asked
about this on Monday specifically because of this is you know,
what are what are you gonna do to help the defense?
(33:08):
And the answer is that's not my specialty, Like I'm.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Here to help.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
And they're building the thing and things that that that
they find tough and challenging as an offense. At a
certain point, as the head coach that this team has
to fix their defense. They have the quarterback, like you
have the quarterback that can that can make your offense go.
You you need people that can figure out what's going
on defensively, and too often, uh, the defense just hasn't
(33:35):
been able to figure itself out in here. And so
if if that's the direction that you're gonna look at
things and say, Okay, let's pair a defensive head coach
with with Joe Burrow. Then maybe then maybe that's you know,
you could see that being a direction that that you
would want to go. That's worked before. You're thinking Brady
Belichick all that type of stuff, right, and and you
(33:55):
can maybe go forward some in that way.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
But that's that's part of the conversation. That would be
the heads.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
I mean, this is what you're where you're when you
reach historical levels, when when every week is a new
set of five or six things, this league has not
seen triangles the sixty six New York Siety six Giants.
Jay had a stat with like the twenty one like
(34:23):
a team I'd never the Takawanda something's I was like,
they didn't even have like a forward pass at that point,
Like when you're when when these are the comparisons where
this is all we can find that has ever looked
like this. Yeah, like everybody of any importance in the
building is under fire.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
There's there's no doubt.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
And that doesn't mean that we know how it's gonna go,
but yeah, it's it's everybody.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
You wrote after the game about going into the locker
room and not a lot of defensive guys wanted to talk.
Some did, and you pointed that out. You reference there
being laughter in certain corners of the locker room. How
sharp of a departure was that on Sunday from other
similar low points with that side of the ball or
(35:12):
even the other side of the ball since you've been
covering the team.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Uh, A decent amount. I mean, the the the lack
of fire and the lack of seriousness that you felt
over there. They just the guy, the people that you
did see or hear from felt sounded beaten down and demoralized.
And then you had a lot of young players who
(35:37):
just didn't seem to think that they had any real
reason to care about certainly us not they not they
only anything that every time Like, no, this is not
about taking stock, right, But this is about that. It
is about comparing to what it looks like when teams
do pull out of it and not that right. So
my my thing is I felt like and I don't know,
(35:59):
like what with Chase Brown is kind of a separate
story that I I just I wanted to see where
are the players not just Sunday, during this entire downfall
of this defense. That sound like Jamar Chase, that sound
like Chase Brown. I don't care if your emotion comes
out right or wrong.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I want to see it. Yes, where is it where?
Speaker 4 (36:23):
That's what you usually get right before it gets to
the beaten down, demoralized portion of the program. You usually
see the like dude who wants everyone to know this
ain't me and I hate that this is where we're
at and we got to get this and maybe they maybe, Man,
these players only meetings are just just tearing the paint
off the wall. I don't, you know whatever, I don't
(36:46):
is there gonna be another one? I mean, I feel
like you just keep having bye week. It was one
thing that I that I was looking for when I
walked in the locker room today and you know exactly
what it was.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Punk table, ping pong table. I said, no, it was
nothing to change the ping pong table.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
Maybe next Okay, after the bye week, after a week
of retrospection, they came back and said, we think we've
got it.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Ping pong table. Right, Maybe that's where they go next
to it. I mean, but that's my point.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
Is is I feel like you usually see the blow up,
the emotion, the like fire in the form of some
kind of weather. It's anger, even if it's misplaced, or
like guys getting at each other a little bit more
like there just.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Really hasn't been hardly any of that over there. It's
just felt like a went wrong again.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
Yeah, we missed the tackles and we just got to
keep working at it and we're gonna get it right,
and we're looking for leaders, and it's.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Just where's the fire?
Speaker 6 (37:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Where? Where?
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Where are seven guys on defense that sound and look
like Jamar Chase and Chase Brown and some of the
other people and and you know, it's just it's not
that that has to be the way out, Like there's
you want to be smarter and more constructive in the
way that you deal with your problems, but it has
(38:03):
to start with the true fire and want to be
better and feeling pushed and driven to just not accept
any of what's happening on your watch as a player,
and that just where is that where is Like I'm
not right, that just hasn't really existed yet to this point.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
You want the defense to be as angry as the
offense seems to be.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
What I feel bad about, among a lot of things,
is because there's just so much stuff happening here. We
don't have enough time to examine the difference between the
quarterback ball and the kicking ball.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
Oh I got to see them side by side too. Yeah,
they're like they're from different sports. It's unbelievable, right, how
different they are. I never would have thought that they
really were that different. It looks like if you put
a football next to a rugby ball or whatever. Yeah,
I mean it's they're totally different. They feel different, they
are shaped different, they're the leather, all of it is
(38:59):
like totally rougher and different.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah, it's it's unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
But the Bengals hosted demonstration for you so they can
make it.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, they showed me. They showed me the two side
by side.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Why why White cut the long snapper, touch it and
go huh? Does the scoring play call a time out?
Are you allowed to do that? I know they once
once the offenses on the field, they put the quarterback
ball in the field, they're not gonna swap out the ball,
but are you allowed to call it out the.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
Discretion of the sideline referee? Weather Because they don't get this.
They don't want to be caught being the ones when
the CA ball has to come in to have to
toss it and want their like referee to be juggling
it and unable to get it. So they make it
their discretion whether they have to restart the play clock
or not. And the last thing they want have to
do is restart a play clock apparently no matter what.
(39:44):
So that includes like not running out there with the
ball and handing it to them or anything like that.
They just say, Nope, not gonna get the CA ball
in and they and they rule it off and you
have to go. You have to go play with it
and unless you unless you do stop the clock or whatever,
and like, uh, this happened with this happened with Tennessee. Yeah,
with this big part of Brian callihan situation. They took
(40:05):
a delay and had to kick a sixty two yard
to get the other ball in there. They're so different now.
The difference is way bigger this year than ever has been.
But I'm like, okay, So the referees don't want to
look dumb, so they make the kicker look dumb right instead.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Yeah, like you know, way more the coach look dumb
for having the offense on the field on fourth and
thirteen and then oh, you know what, maybe we want
to kick here, but that that whole thing was a mess.
Speaker 4 (40:27):
Yeah, it was an absolute mess, right, but the bottom
line is like this should not be about this also
should not be about restarting the play clock, like look,
get the get the right ball is yes, you know,
and then to me, can you just have can can
will Wagner have the kick caball under his arm at
all times and.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Be able to go run out there and hand it
to the official.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
He's that should be long. You're on the field for
this one play. You have the ball and if you
can't bring the proper ball out then your team suffers
because of it. You will handle the CA ball. Yes,
we solve this.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
The job job by us.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Wait again, but we're like out of time, But you
wanted to say something about that, Quinna Williamstrang.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
That's what I would have done if I were the Bengals. Yeah,
I would have traded Trey Hendrickson. Use the compensation you
get back from trading Trey Hendrickson to help fuel a
deal for a real player who's going to be here
for multiple years going forward, and help fix your pass
rush right now and for essentially the same amount of
money that you already have. Trey Hendrickson, Like, if you're
paying him right now, it could help you know you
(41:26):
you have that money available if you ever have done
an extension with him at one point, can you be
the de facto GM, I'll apply. We still come here
on Tuesdays, I'll be I'll be so accessible. I'm gonna
be at the bye week. Then forget the bye weekend.
After the season, every game, I'm here every Tuesday Day
(41:47):
from three to four.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, that's it. It's it's GM Tuesdays. Your due. Bosses
will love GM. Yes, all right.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Tonight seven thirty special Live Growler podcast, Paul and Jay
talking about everything swirling around the team, the Logan Wilson trade,
a trade that may come in the next six minutes.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Bubbling general, bubbling, general, bubbling. Yeah, we guys have any
bubbling with you?
Speaker 4 (42:10):
We might, we might We need it this season at
this point I've never needed needed bubbles in good by
week for the bye weekn Yes, I have right now?
Speaker 1 (42:18):
All right?
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Check that out tonight seven thirty YouTube and where you
get your podcasts and uh Repauldeathletic dot com. We're at
Oakley Greens. Paul, thank you so much, pleasure. I'm here
at all five thirty. We've got a lot of Bengal
stuff to get to. FC Cincinnati is getting set for Saturday.
Sasha question from MLS's a past. Apple TV is going
to join us in just about ten minutes on ESPN
(42:40):
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 6 (42:46):
Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center. The Lung Cancer
Rapid Access Program at the UC Cancer Center is built
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In twoday's call five one three eight five CCC. On
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a disabled vehicle on the entrance ramp from seventy one.
(43:09):
The right lane blocked off on the ramp Bolster Pike.
Also an accident at Oak Street in slow traffic northbound
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Speaker 5 (43:20):
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Speaker 2 (00:08):
You found Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
We half what's up to afternoon mallegor ESPN fifteen thirty.
Thanks for listening today. Hopefully we're having like the most
awesome Tuesday of all time.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
It is gorgeous out.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
We're at Oakley Greens, which is where we are every
single Tuesday. We're here till five thirty today.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Out of the way early.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
We've got UK basketball coming up, the Wildcats beginning year
two of the Mark Pope era against Nichols. Nichols State,
I believe says in our scheditule Nichols tip off at
seven o'clock. Bumps us out of the way with pregame
show at five thirty. We have a lot of ground
to cover. The NFL trade deadline is fifty five minutes away.
(00:50):
We'll do some MC Cincinnati stuff in the four o'clock hour,
some college hoops stuff as well. Show preview is available
on Twitter at moegar. Thanks to share Effects Credit Union,
become a member now at share fact dot org. If
you haven't been to Oakley Greens. Yet I do not
know what you're waiting for. I will say this, it
is impressive, you know, like I hang Christmas lights up
in my house and it's it's me and it's maybe
(01:11):
a step stool, and it's not that big of a production.
We have like an entire crew here. There's ladders coming out,
there's a big van, there's stringing the lights out in
the parking lot. Like it is gonna be impressive here
by the time they're done. And so could you can
have a holiday party, a holiday happy hour, you know,
the holiday season. One might argue it's already here. I
would combat that a little bit, but it's certainly coming.
(01:34):
You could do your holiday party in one of these
cabanas if the weather allows, or you could just post
up inside. You can get a game of mini golf in,
you can get dinner. We've got an outdoor bar and
indoor bar. You cannot beat Oakley Greens. It's in Oakley,
so keep that in mind when you punch it in
your GPS. Oakley Greens, we thank them for having us
awesome for watch parties. You could have a Bengals free
(01:56):
Sunday and watch all the good teams play and see
teams that when they score forty points win the football game.
Chances are pretty decisively. Could watch all those games at
Oakley Greens. You can watch FC Cincinnati on Saturday in
the playoffs against Columbus. A great time will be head
at Oakley Greens. A great time has always had. When
our friend Paul Danner Junior joins us. He is busy,
he's on trade deadline, Watchtheathletic dot Com, the Growler podcast.
(02:20):
You have a lot going on. I'm thrilled that you're here.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah, I'm happy to be here. This is always one
of my favorite ones every year where I'm like, please
don't make me work during this.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
But I mean, but I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
In most years, i'm just already under the assumption that
the ship has sailed and that and and I've kind
of thought I would feel that way today, But when
things start happening like they have today, you kind of
throw all preconceived notions out for a minute and say, Okay,
the NFL is.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Doing crazy things.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Yeah, so maybe a crazy thing could happen, but I'm
not counting on it right now.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
But the NFL is a little unhinged at the moment. Well,
Logan Wilson has gone, yeah, that did happen.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
He's been traded by the Cowboys to the or by
the Bengals to the Dallas Cowboys. So he goes from
one awful defense to another slightly less awful defense. Bengals
get a seventh round pick in exchange for Logan. The
barometer for any Bengals trade, or any Bengals maneuver where
they cut a player is whether or not on the
press release there's a quote from somebody, and Logan got
(03:23):
a quote from Zach.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Taylor And what level did this come from? This wasn't
gonna be a Mike Brown.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
No, the Mike Brown is top of the line. Uh yeah,
you know, I'm still I'm not. It's certainly not surprising
when you consider his situation. It is surprising when you
consider the Bengals breaking from history.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Again.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
You know, we've never really seen them, you know, do
many in season.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Trades, trades hardly at all.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Then this year, not only did they for the first
time trade with the Browns and go get the quarterback
in Joe Flacco, but now, for the first time ever,
they trade away someone who could help them this year
that hadn't sort of blown up their way out of town.
I don't know, however you view the trade request issued
by Logan.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I didn't feel like it was anything.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
It's certainly in the vicinity of Carlos Dumbmap or Carson Palmer,
but I think it's a recognition of this might be
just an addition by subtraction. And I don't mean that
as Logan is not a good player. It's look, they've
chosen to go down this road. We're going down this
road with Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight. And I actually
(04:32):
felt like Zach Taylor essentially announced this trade at the
press conference on Monday when he went onto a long
spiel about Sam Hubbard and the analogy about Sam Hubbard
not really feeling able to put himself out there and
really become a leader early in his career because Carlos
and Gino were in the room with him, and who
(04:52):
is he to speak up? And even though he had
a lot of respect and people understood who he was
and he worked hard and he was everything they wanted
to be about going forward, he could read the room
and see, that's not my place.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
To say anything.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
You gotta get those guys out of there for the
if you want the young people to then grow up.
And and I feel like the benching was the beginning
of this, and now this trade is the finalization of this,
of saying, we just want these guys to be our future,
and we think leadership traits is part of that. And
you know, I talked to Barrett today and he said,
(05:24):
you know, to that idea, to that question, the idea
of like, yeah, yeah, I did feel like.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I need to read the room.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
I you know that guy loves Logan Wilson, right, I
mean her, He professed that openly today. Is like it's
gonna be for life what he did for me, and
he was the first person to text him, and so
many things, A ton of respect you. I had so
much respect you. I'm not gonna step on that guy's toes. Yeah,
you you feel a little bit of a need to
go and now you can more fill that space. I
(05:52):
also thought he said the right thing with that of like,
but it starts with playing better, Like you have to
play better. And the truth is, no one's fotollowing anybody
that plays terribly anywhere. Okay, so until that starts, until
they start actually playing better, none of this other stuff matters.
But you know, maybe that if they're hoping that they'll
start playing better and then they'll feel a little bit
(06:14):
more open to let the other stuff start to show
a little more.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Well, and if you could add a seventh round pick
obviously to the arsenal of selections the Bengals will have
next year, it's just it's just more damage they can
do in the draft.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
It's something yeah, right, yeah, let's let's go down the
what's your favorite seventh round pick?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Right, let's go down not Kyle Manogi or right, I
mean a guy how do we say his name? Manangay, Manangay,
Thank you, Kyle Manangai. That that's my least favorite seventh
round pick of all the time.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Pretty good, yeah, pretty good.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
You know it can apparently run for a lot of
yards when they're there available to them.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I could run for a lot of yards against this defense.
So we'll tap the brakes on that just a little bit.
But there's my least round pick. Yeah, that's that's that's fair.
You were an oudentate guy at one point.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
No I was not no, no I was. I was
a T. J. Hushman zaa guy he was a seventh
round pay.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
That's I think that's a lot of people's favorite seventh
round paper.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
So the deadline is forty nine minutes away. By my calculation,
you have done Tuesday with me for eleven years. I
think that's accurate. Yeah, it's eleven years, So that's eleven
trade deadline Tuesdays. Usually we barely mention it. Yeah, I
detect from you a little pensiveness, Yeah, a little bit
(07:30):
the deadline, like a little bit.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Maybe something could happen.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Maybe, I don't know, Like I just think the the
nature of today in the NFL keeps me a little
bit more on edge, in the fact that teams are
hunting and calling about Trey Hendrickson.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I had.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
The Bengals have been pretty resolute. I've never gotten the
feeling during this and I've written it that they were
ever gonna do that. Yeah, but I think that's because
they knew their asking price would continue to be the
same number that no one has ever been willing to meet.
And so if the league is now doing things where
people are throwing around first round picks, then maybe maybe
(08:08):
that could you could see a desperation move come from somebody,
And we knew anybody that is close to this team
knows that that was the only thing that was gonna happen.
Here would be a desperate, a desperation move where the
Bengals feel like they would be pretty big winners in
a deal. Because here's the thing, and I've said this
a million times and why this has never made sense
to me, and it would be the all it would
(08:30):
be the ultimate change is they're just not gonna wave
the white flag on the season, whether you think they
should or not. I just don't see a world where
right now they're gonna wave the white flag on this season.
Giving up Trey Hendrickson would be saying it's over, we quit,
we're not trying. That has never been their philosophy. That
(08:52):
has never been something they would ever allow or really
stand for. Yeah, the Logan Wilson thing is like, again
I talked about it, but it's like it's like a
tiny version of the tiniest version of that.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
That's a small departure.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
B It's why they've never made in season trades giving
up someone who can help them because they're just not
gonna wave the white flag in any capacity. So for
that reason is why it's never really felt like something
was going to happen here because Trey Hendrickson is the
one guy that can actually make things look different on
the defensive side of the ball. If Trey plays in
(09:29):
the second half the last four weeks, they the last
two weeks even they probably win both those games. He's
a closer. It's literally the one still they needed. Yes,
the one skill they made the last two weeks was
what he is, maybe as good at as anybody in football.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Has been here. He has closed out for years.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Remember, you know, Joe Burrow and quarterback, come on Trey, like,
you know what time it is. The last two weeks,
it's been Trey time, and he hasn't been out there.
And they don't have anybody who is remotely like him
or even you know, his New Orleans version of himself.
They don't have anything that looks like that, and so
(10:10):
the games have ended the way they have. I feel
like if they had a full Trey Hendrickson out there,
they would have finished both of those games off and
would be in a different place.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
They didn't. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
But if you're talking about like how could the second
half look different? I look at the on off splits
this year from Trey Hendrickson when he's on the field
this year and when he hasn't been.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And really this goes back because isn't just.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
The shit, they're just massive. They're two different, totally different defenses.
And so when we talk about all these historical futility
in the second halves and games in a hole, but
certainly in the second halves, we've seen this over and
over again. Trey Hendrickson with zero second half snaps the
last four weeks because he's gotten hurt in the first
(10:55):
half of the two games he tried to play him.
And you see the difference. You see what's happening, and
they just don't have any answers regardless. No one's saying
they'd be great, no one's saying they'd even be serviceable.
But it could be enough to win when you score
forty two, right, and I just don't see them saying
we're gonna take that chance off the table.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
That's that's what's felt like.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
The biggest driver for me in the conversation around him
before the last you know, forty eight hours.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
So we've seen Sauce Gardner get traded by the Jets
to the Colts. Two first rounders involved is that move
in particular the one that is giving you slight pause
as it relates to what they may do with Trey.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Yeah, I mean I think both jets. I mean the
Quinn Williams to Dallas, which I have a thought on
at some point if you want to hear it. Yeah,
But like I think that that is the thing that Okay,
teams are out here. You know, there's right, it's the
it's the FM Pick's mentality Storry with three. I think
there's there's lots of the Jags. Like, there's just teams
(11:58):
that are just so much more will to say, you
know what, let's go now.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
It feels accessible.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
The super Bowl feels on the table for Seattle, for Indianapolis,
for Dallas at three five and one. You know they're
sitting here saying, let's go for it now. Sauce and
Quinn in The difference for them is they're under contract
for multiple years and Hendrickson is clearly a rental. But
if a team feels like they really want it that,
(12:24):
I think that gives you pause when you see the
aggressiveness level happening.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
It's a sense.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Around the league that the Super Bowl can be taken by.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
A team that makes the right move today.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Is Trey the only current Bengal that's on your radar
as it relates to a possible deal, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
I think so.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
I mean there are others that I mean, there's really
very few players I wouldn't I mean, I wouldn't trade
DJ Turner.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
No, and that might be it on defense, right, like, oh,
on defense? That is it? Yeah, I'm not. The list
is DJ Turner. The list is DJ Turner.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
I'm keeping Uh, that's and that's pretty much, you know,
that's probably it I would listen to. I mean, you
would think maybe somebody like Osai or a bj Hill would.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Have some kind of if anybody was just looking for
depth or whatever.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Yeah, maybe, I mean McKinley Jackson, our teams beating down
the Bengals not quite hadn't seen that yet.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Look, still still still poking around, though there's still time.
We got forty two minutes for the the Jackson rush.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Would then this might be a stupid question. Would a
Cam Taylor Britt or a Dax Hill illicit interest from
a team that's like, you know what, they're still upside,
we can fix them.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Yeah, I think Dax would. I think there's enough there
with Dax and and maybe maybe someone would look at
Cam and say, give me a shot. Maybe maybe that's
where lou Ana Rumo's conversation started with Chris Ballard in Indianapolis.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
He's like, look, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
If you can't get me Cam, I guess okay, right,
Like I guess we'll just google go that way. Maybe
that's how that began. But yeah, I think that there
would be I don't know. I don't think so. I mean,
it's it's hard for how does anybody watch the tape? No,
you know, and it's like, I think that's gonna put
(14:16):
us over the top. No, there are none.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
I mean, but I there are times where a move
is made involving a player where you're like, man, that
guy's no good, and the team that acquired to me go, okay,
they must have had a great grade on them, and
they think in a different system they can get more
out of them. And Cam, Taylor, brid and Dax Hill
struck me as players that someone may view through that lens.
But I certainly didn't wake up this morning think they're
(14:40):
gonna trade me one of those guys.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
No, And you know, I mean, you know, the Cam
roller coaster is well documented. I think they feel like
maybe they're on one of those good upswings with Cam today.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
A lot of ball to go.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Yeah, yeah, No, we know what comes up. It's like
when the chain's pulling you up the hill. It's not stopping. Okay,
it doesn't just keep going up into the clouds. We
know that we.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Know what comes on the other side.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
But I think that there's a feeling like, Okay, maybe
there's some stability with with dj and and Dax and
if they can start to get CAM back on the
right track at least for right now.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
But that's all. That's kind of a separate story.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Forty one minutes away from the trade deadline.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Oh, Ken, you need like a clock sounder, a tick sounder.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
In years past, I think we've had Tarren play some
sort of obnoxious you know, horn Blair or something that
we could we can get that And no, you.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Don't want I'm not a horn Blair guy. No, it
has to get people's attention. I just think a little clock,
there's a little ticking, that's all.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Do you want the ticking in the background for the
duration of the top of your I mean maybe going
maybe something in some of your buyers tear little teasers
that you do. Taryn Tarren producing back and Ken we'll
he'll have something ready for us. It is twenty minutes
after three o'clock trade deadline. Is it for Paul Danner Juniors?
Speaker 1 (15:55):
With us? Till then?
Speaker 3 (15:56):
We are here at Oakley Greens until five thirty today,
hanging out on a gorgeous Tuesday afternoon on ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
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Speaker 2 (16:42):
This report is sponsored by This is Football in the NATI,
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Speaker 3 (16:59):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Bolegger with Paul Danner Junior
from the Athletic dot Com and the Growler podcast, which
I get to be a part of tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, that's fun. Tomorrow Trade deadline recap, Yeah, sort of thing. No,
just no, I think.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Jay and I are are doing live tonight at seven thirty, okay,
and we're gonna do trade deadline stuff and the normal
PD and Jay.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
So I can watch that on YouTube to catch up.
And now then I'm we're just gonna see where you
and I go tomorrow. That's why those are my favorite shows.
Those are my favorite shows with you and when when
we just sort.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Of turn the mics on and and just go with
a discuss this.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Let's see where this goes.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
So it's Trade Deadline right four o'clock.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
With every passing minute, I see you looking more and
more relaxed.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
I'm getting I'm getting there. I'm getting there. It's always
nerve racking.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Who is making the decisions for the Bengals today in
the front office it's Duke Tobin. Yes, who will be
making the Bengals decisions tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Duke Tobin was making the Begals decisions. Smile.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk says, quote, there's bubbling up
now the duke Tobin is going to be out, maybe
during the bye week.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Maybe suoner heads are gonna roll in Cincinnati. What do
I do with that?
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Well, first, I didn't know it was Floria season already.
That we had to go said, yeah, he's like a
he he's like a winter guy.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Combine, Yeah, yeah, you need the first snowfall till it's Floria.
It's a little early.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
I will say, if there was one person on earth
that would not know.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
This answer, it might be Mike Floria.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
But I just you know, I don't think that he
has connections inside of the building that way. I I
do not look that we're in We're in the chaos
times right now. Okay, this is there's a lot going
on in terms of the team. Has we haven't seen
(18:59):
it be in this shape. You know, the last time
it was in this shape.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
The move was about Marvin Lewis.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
And they made the move, and you know, it was
sixteen years and so much of that and then things
were it was the good times.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
It was the good old days after that.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
So we haven't really Duke has never been in the
crosshairs like this, and his role has never really been
challenged at any level like this. In terms of that,
I don't you know, it just feels that feels like
(19:37):
an aggressive thing to say.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
First of all, as soon as.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
The bye week is literally right now, So you're saying
this person could be fired anytime from today to the
end of the earth. Okay, as soon as right now
he could be fired, and then anytime after that. Right,
I think that there's Yes, he's under the microscope. You
(20:03):
and I have talked about, talked about this last week.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yes, So I.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
Don't like, I don't want to have to keep doing
this every week. I understand that we have to right
now because of you know what Mike said, But like
I just feel like, yes, there is more focus. Yes,
I think there's more cracks here than we've ever seen,
but it's just would still be so stunning. He's still
(20:27):
part of everything they believe in as an organization and
what he's been such a central part of everything there.
I think everything is on the table right now because
of the nature of we've just never seen anything quite
like this, and you've put it perfectly I've heard.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
You talk about this multiple times.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Of look like, this is your job to fix this defense,
and it's just gotten so much worse. It feels so unrecoverable.
And it's all because of so many of these picks
are not panning out. And at what point and the
free agent things that have happened, Like, at what point
does all of this just pile up where it's just
(21:10):
for the betterment of everybody that you try doing something different.
I think the logical side of it is no one
is gonna contend with that. It's just the reality side
of what it actually happened. I'm not buying that just yet.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
I'm just not.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
But you know that anybody can, anybody can say that
things are bubbling up, and no one will care if
they don't, no one will call back to that.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
I think there's bubbling up amongst US fans. It's bubbling
up that's undeniable. Yeah, there's a pretty sharp difference between
bubbling up here with idiots like me and bubbling up
among people who are in a decision making capacity at
pay Court Stadium. Yes, and there's no distinction in what
(21:56):
Mike is referring to, Like bubbling up is that in Cincinnati,
their mad Duke Tobin.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yes, yes, the main roll. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
People aren't just gonna come out of this thing unscathed,
like obviously, but who is that?
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I mean, there's there's levels to.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
This, as they say, I mean, and and I just
think that's, uh, that's a level that is I mean,
it takes unprecedented times and here we are, right, So
so I'm not I don't want to sit here and
rule anything out, but like it that doesn't it certainly
didn't land or really register with me as something that
(22:30):
I feel like.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Makes a whole lot of sense in this in this
exact way.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
I have a few questions kind of related to this specifically, Okay,
but I do want to get a break and let
me let me ask you this though before we pause.
So last week we talked about it feels like this
is really the first time where Duke Tobin is in
the public's crossairs, and you said, you know, this is
the first time, and I'm paraphrasing here, this is the
(22:57):
first time where it's plausible that maybe they do something,
but still so unlikely that if they did it, it would
be shocking. Would you frame it the same way after Sunday.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Yeah, I mean, you can only take so many of those.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, I mean, I still I still think that at
at the end of.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
The day, you know, there is a a patience and
a need to see everything play itself out.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
And maybe some people say it played out like we
saw it. You know, this is it. It's it's been,
it's played. But there's that's always that's always, even.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Going back to Marvin Lewis here, you know, I feel
like it's let's see the whole book. Mike in the
family are let's see the whole book before we judge it,
and let's not go in and so doing it now
before a lot of these young players that they're clearing
the decks for have a chance to show the level
of improvement they're looking for.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Would be again just crazy, out of character.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
And maybe that's what they I mean, there's a lot
of arguments about that's what they need. I think most
people would make those right now, but I'm trying to
speak in the reality of how realistic I think it is.
It would be stunning and out of characters still even
to me, even after even after.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
What happens, it's got twenty seven minutes counting it down.
Where's the ticker? I'm listening. I don't hear it. Terren's
working on it.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
He's working on it. He's trying to find that. They're
trying to find the ticker anything on this here internet.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Well, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
I don't have a joke, but terrens I'm sure he's
working on it.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Oh, yeah, he's got it.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Is twenty seven away from four o'clock and the trade deadline.
Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and the Growler podcast
Live tonight at seven thirty with Jay Morrison.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
There it is. Oh, look at that Commings. I knew
you'd come through Tarran, Yeah, I knew it. Man. If
that can happen, anything can.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Happen anything, literally anything. Possibilities are endless. Sports headlines coming
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This report is sponsored by Cheval home of lifetime powertrain
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(26:44):
The trade deadline is in twenty one minutes. We'll see
if Cincinnati acquires any more draft picks for Duke Tobin
to waste. Bengals have a bye this week. They're in
Pittsburgh week from Sunday. Take on the Steelers on ESPN
fifteen thirty. Former UC star Sauce Gardner traded by the
New York Jets to the Indianapolis Colts, where he gets
to be coached by lul Anarumo. In exchange, indiescends to
(27:06):
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Speaker 1 (27:19):
Who you think won the battle between Duke Tobin and Louannarumo.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Mo hemo, This team is seven to two. I know
he gets to coach Sauce Gardner. I didn't have to
move very far.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
He just keeps getting great players thrown into his laugh.
He's on it. They keep winning.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
They don't have to be great defensively. They can do
lou Anarumo ben but don't break, which statistically they do.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
And then everything you want to happen.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
When you have a blow up that leads to you
leaving a job or you get fired, you just want
the other place to be in shambos stress. That's all
you want. You just want you all your former co
workers and friends. You want them to be calling you
being like, this is a disaster. You just want to
hear all the horror story. And so I just you
gotta feel like he just like goes he collects his
(28:04):
w cracks open a cold on the couch.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
He's like, let's watch some Bengals highlights.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Right like, and just sits up every Sunday night. Uh,
and then then waits for the call Chris Ballad to
tell them that they're giving him sauce Gardner. It's just
an embarrassment of riches for for lou over there right now.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
A few more questions about Tobin, okay, and maybe what
it would look like if they did move on. We
haven't had a de facto general manager search.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
What would that look like?
Speaker 4 (28:34):
I mean, well, I think you probably in the meantime,
you would probably have one of the three agms would
step in, right You'd have Trey Brown or Steve Orusivik
or Mike Potts, they're they're there right. Trey has has
notably interviewed for GM jobs across the league. He'd be familiar,
(28:55):
Like if you were doing something like that, you probably
would would start there and then open up. I don't know.
I mean, we've never and it's so this is the heart,
it's so gray. There's so much unknown onto what any
of this would look like. And truthfully too, like, you know,
(29:17):
is Mike gonna be like we need a new guy?
Like because there's it's a unique situation there where they
like Duke for the fact that they it's a very
tough relationship to manage with him and the family and
the football aspect and what Mike still does and what
(29:38):
he does and his role and all. It's just all
of it is really hard to step into and have
a feel for. So I I don't know that anybody
could sit here and say they would know what that
would actually look like, you know, because we haven't ever
(29:58):
really seen it.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
When this possibility has come up, even when it has
seemed extraordinarily unrealistic, many have countered with who would want
that job? Is that a fair way to look at
it because of what you just outlined.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
I think a lot of people would do you want
patients and job security?
Speaker 1 (30:21):
You know? I mean do you want?
Speaker 4 (30:22):
I mean they have when new head coach like Zach
Taylor is coming in, they have given him rain.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
To do a lot of things that he wanted to do.
They've been willing to make changes.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
They have been a bit adaptable as an organization, specifically
comparison to previous times.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
You have Joe Burrow like it's important.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Yeah, I mean, you have the hard stuff here in
place in a lot of ways, I don't think. And
the biggest problem that many gms in this league face
is feeling like they have to make moves for their
jobs and you don't have to do that here. You
can play the longer game the same way that Baltimore
(31:06):
and Pittsburgh do and and in the success that I
think that those two teams and the Bengals have had
in this division in comparison to like, you know, when
you see the the interchanging that happens with Cleveland or
a lot of other places that are unstable across the league.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Is part of what.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Would make a job like that one that people would
want everybody. Everybody has a challenging ownership situation in some way,
Like there's only so many openings that happen where it's like, oh,
but the ownership is just clean. It can be no
issues there. You're gonna that's that's that's the NFL man.
You gotta you got it the same way we used
(31:43):
to talk about this with Marvin Lewis and and and
the job is as much about managing up as it
is managing down. You have to be able to make
all sides work and get your vision across, like that's
gonna be part of that here, the same as it
would be in any market that has an NFL team
in America.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
One more on this and then I will ask about
other things. So Florio says heads will roll. You don't
disagree with that. So if Duke Tobin's head is not
the most likely to roll, whose head will be rolling?
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Well, I mean we know Zach Taylor is on the seat.
You have to be in some capacity. I mean we
talked about this the moment they let go of a Luannarumo,
like you only get to do this once. And so
I think that's clear.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Even with all the.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Things happening offensively that have been good. You know, he's
not gonna to me. We're at the point where you're
not judging him for that as much.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
We've established that you can have good.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Offenses, yes, and you can do it apparently with multiple
quarterbacks that both times he's been given backup quarterbacks besides
Joe Burrow. It's been remarkable what they've been able to
do offensively. What they're doing right now is a masterclass.
But the bottom line is, and you know, I asked
about this on Monday specifically because of this is you know,
what are what are you gonna do to help the defense?
(33:08):
And the answer is that's not my specialty, Like I'm.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Here to help.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
And they're building the thing and things that that that
they find tough and challenging as an offense. At a
certain point, as the head coach that this team has
to fix their defense. They have the quarterback, like you
have the quarterback that can that can make your offense go.
You you need people that can figure out what's going
on defensively, and too often, uh, the defense just hasn't
(33:35):
been able to figure itself out in here. And so
if if that's the direction that you're gonna look at
things and say, Okay, let's pair a defensive head coach
with with Joe Burrow. Then maybe then maybe that's you know,
you could see that being a direction that that you
would want to go. That's worked before. You're thinking Brady
Belichick all that type of stuff, right, and and you
(33:55):
can maybe go forward some in that way.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
But that's that's part of the conversation. That would be
the heads.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
I mean, this is what you're where you're when you
reach historical levels, when when every week is a new
set of five or six things, this league has not
seen triangles the sixty six New York Siety six Giants.
Jay had a stat with like the twenty one like
(34:23):
a team I'd never the Takawanda something's I was like,
they didn't even have like a forward pass at that point,
Like when you're when when these are the comparisons where
this is all we can find that has ever looked
like this. Yeah, like everybody of any importance in the
building is under fire.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
There's there's no doubt.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
And that doesn't mean that we know how it's gonna go,
but yeah, it's it's everybody.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
You wrote after the game about going into the locker
room and not a lot of defensive guys wanted to talk.
Some did, and you pointed that out. You reference there
being laughter in certain corners of the locker room. How
sharp of a departure was that on Sunday from other
similar low points with that side of the ball or
(35:12):
even the other side of the ball since you've been
covering the team.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Uh, A decent amount. I mean, the the the lack
of fire and the lack of seriousness that you felt
over there. They just the guy, the people that you
did see or hear from felt sounded beaten down and demoralized.
And then you had a lot of young players who
(35:37):
just didn't seem to think that they had any real
reason to care about certainly us not they not they
only anything that every time Like, no, this is not
about taking stock, right, But this is about that. It
is about comparing to what it looks like when teams
do pull out of it and not that right. So
my my thing is I felt like and I don't know,
(35:59):
like what with Chase Brown is kind of a separate
story that I I just I wanted to see where
are the players not just Sunday, during this entire downfall
of this defense. That sound like Jamar Chase, that sound
like Chase Brown. I don't care if your emotion comes
out right or wrong.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I want to see it. Yes, where is it where?
Speaker 4 (36:23):
That's what you usually get right before it gets to
the beaten down, demoralized portion of the program. You usually
see the like dude who wants everyone to know this
ain't me and I hate that this is where we're
at and we got to get this and maybe they maybe, Man,
these players only meetings are just just tearing the paint
off the wall. I don't, you know whatever, I don't
(36:46):
is there gonna be another one? I mean, I feel
like you just keep having bye week. It was one
thing that I that I was looking for when I
walked in the locker room today and you know exactly
what it was.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Punk table, ping pong table. I said, no, it was
nothing to change the ping pong table.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
Maybe next Okay, after the bye week, after a week
of retrospection, they came back and said, we think we've
got it.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Ping pong table. Right, Maybe that's where they go next
to it. I mean, but that's my point.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
Is is I feel like you usually see the blow up,
the emotion, the like fire in the form of some
kind of weather. It's anger, even if it's misplaced, or
like guys getting at each other a little bit more
like there just.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Really hasn't been hardly any of that over there. It's
just felt like a went wrong again.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
Yeah, we missed the tackles and we just got to
keep working at it and we're gonna get it right,
and we're looking for leaders, and it's.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Just where's the fire?
Speaker 6 (37:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Where? Where?
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Where are seven guys on defense that sound and look
like Jamar Chase and Chase Brown and some of the
other people and and you know, it's just it's not
that that has to be the way out, Like there's
you want to be smarter and more constructive in the
way that you deal with your problems, but it has
(38:03):
to start with the true fire and want to be
better and feeling pushed and driven to just not accept
any of what's happening on your watch as a player,
and that just where is that where is Like I'm
not right, that just hasn't really existed yet to this point.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
You want the defense to be as angry as the
offense seems to be.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
What I feel bad about, among a lot of things,
is because there's just so much stuff happening here. We
don't have enough time to examine the difference between the
quarterback ball and the kicking ball.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
Oh I got to see them side by side too. Yeah,
they're like they're from different sports. It's unbelievable, right, how
different they are. I never would have thought that they
really were that different. It looks like if you put
a football next to a rugby ball or whatever. Yeah,
I mean it's they're totally different. They feel different, they
are shaped different, they're the leather, all of it is
(38:59):
like totally rougher and different.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah, it's it's unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
But the Bengals hosted demonstration for you so they can
make it.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, they showed me. They showed me the two side
by side.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Why why White cut the long snapper, touch it and
go huh? Does the scoring play call a time out?
Are you allowed to do that? I know they once
once the offenses on the field, they put the quarterback
ball in the field, they're not gonna swap out the ball,
but are you allowed to call it out the.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
Discretion of the sideline referee? Weather Because they don't get this.
They don't want to be caught being the ones when
the CA ball has to come in to have to
toss it and want their like referee to be juggling
it and unable to get it. So they make it
their discretion whether they have to restart the play clock
or not. And the last thing they want have to
do is restart a play clock apparently no matter what.
(39:44):
So that includes like not running out there with the
ball and handing it to them or anything like that.
They just say, Nope, not gonna get the CA ball
in and they and they rule it off and you
have to go. You have to go play with it
and unless you unless you do stop the clock or whatever,
and like, uh, this happened with this happened with Tennessee. Yeah,
with this big part of Brian callihan situation. They took
(40:05):
a delay and had to kick a sixty two yard
to get the other ball in there. They're so different now.
The difference is way bigger this year than ever has been.
But I'm like, okay, So the referees don't want to
look dumb, so they make the kicker look dumb right instead.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Yeah, like you know, way more the coach look dumb
for having the offense on the field on fourth and
thirteen and then oh, you know what, maybe we want
to kick here, but that that whole thing was a mess.
Speaker 4 (40:27):
Yeah, it was an absolute mess, right, but the bottom
line is like this should not be about this also
should not be about restarting the play clock, like look,
get the get the right ball is yes, you know,
and then to me, can you just have can can
will Wagner have the kick caball under his arm at
all times and.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Be able to go run out there and hand it
to the official.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
He's that should be long. You're on the field for
this one play. You have the ball and if you
can't bring the proper ball out then your team suffers
because of it. You will handle the CA ball. Yes,
we solve this.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
The job job by us.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Wait again, but we're like out of time, But you
wanted to say something about that, Quinna Williamstrang.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
That's what I would have done if I were the Bengals. Yeah,
I would have traded Trey Hendrickson. Use the compensation you
get back from trading Trey Hendrickson to help fuel a
deal for a real player who's going to be here
for multiple years going forward, and help fix your pass
rush right now and for essentially the same amount of
money that you already have. Trey Hendrickson, Like, if you're
paying him right now, it could help you know you
(41:26):
you have that money available if you ever have done
an extension with him at one point, can you be
the de facto GM, I'll apply. We still come here
on Tuesdays, I'll be I'll be so accessible. I'm gonna
be at the bye week. Then forget the bye weekend.
After the season, every game, I'm here every Tuesday Day
(41:47):
from three to four.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, that's it. It's it's GM Tuesdays. Your due. Bosses
will love GM. Yes, all right.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Tonight seven thirty special Live Growler podcast, Paul and Jay
talking about everything swirling around the team, the Logan Wilson trade,
a trade that may come in the next six minutes.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Bubbling general, bubbling, general, bubbling. Yeah, we guys have any
bubbling with you?
Speaker 4 (42:10):
We might, we might We need it this season at
this point I've never needed needed bubbles in good by
week for the bye weekn Yes, I have right now?
Speaker 1 (42:18):
All right?
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Check that out tonight seven thirty YouTube and where you
get your podcasts and uh Repauldeathletic dot com. We're at
Oakley Greens. Paul, thank you so much, pleasure. I'm here
at all five thirty. We've got a lot of Bengal
stuff to get to. FC Cincinnati is getting set for Saturday.
Sasha question from MLS's a past. Apple TV is going
to join us in just about ten minutes on ESPN
(42:40):
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 6 (42:46):
Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center. The Lung Cancer
Rapid Access Program at the UC Cancer Center is built
to give you a care plan fast meet with a specialist.
In twoday's call five one three eight five CCC. On
the Ohio side of westbound two seventy five, there is
a disabled vehicle on the entrance ramp from seventy one.
(43:09):
The right lane blocked off on the ramp Bolster Pike.
Also an accident at Oak Street in slow traffic northbound
seventy five. Mitchell the paddock. I'm at ezelic with traffic.
Speaker 5 (43:20):
This report is
Mo Egger News
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