11/4/25 - The Mo Egger Radio Show - Mo Egger

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:08):
You found Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
We half what's up to afternoon mallegor ESPN fifteen thirty.
Thanks for listening today. Hopefully we're having like the most
awesome Tuesday of all time. It is gorgeous out. We're
at Oakley Greens, which is where we are every single Tuesday.
We're here till five thirty today. Out of the way early.
We've got UK basketball coming up, the Wildcats beginning year
two of the Mark Pope era against Nichols. Nichols State,

(00:36):
I believe says in our scheditule Nichols tip off at
seven o'clock. Bumps us out of the way with pregame
show at five thirty. We have a lot of ground
to cover. The NFL trade deadline is fifty five minutes away.
We'll do some MC Cincinnati stuff in the four o'clock hour,
some college hoops stuff as well. Show preview is available
on Twitter at moegar. Thanks to share Effects Credit Union,

(00:59):
become a member now at share fact dot org. If
you haven't been to Oakley Greens. Yet I do not
know what you're waiting for. I will say this, it
is impressive, you know, like I hang Christmas lights up
in my house and it's it's me and it's maybe
a step stool, and it's not that big of a production.
We have like an entire crew here. There's ladders coming out,
there's a big van, there's stringing the lights out in

(01:20):
the parking lot. Like it is gonna be impressive here
by the time they're done. And so could you can
have a holiday party, a holiday happy hour, you know,
the holiday season. One might argue it's already here. I
would combat that a little bit, but it's certainly coming.
You could do your holiday party in one of these
cabanas if the weather allows, or you could just post
up inside. You can get a game of mini golf in,

(01:41):
you can get dinner. We've got an outdoor bar and
indoor bar. You cannot beat Oakley Greens. It's in Oakley,
so keep that in mind when you punch it in
your GPS. Oakley Greens, we thank them for having us
awesome for watch parties. You could have a Bengals free
Sunday and watch all the good teams play and see
teams that when they score forty points win the football game.

(02:02):
Chances are pretty decisively. Could watch all those games at
Oakley Greens. You can watch FC Cincinnati on Saturday in
the playoffs against Columbus. A great time will be head
at Oakley Greens. A great time has always had. When
our friend Paul Danner Junior joins us. He is busy,
he's on trade deadline, Watchtheathletic dot Com, the Growler podcast.
You have a lot going on. I'm thrilled that you're here.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah, I'm happy to be here. This is always one
of my favorite ones every year where I'm like, please
don't make me work during this.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
But I mean, but I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
In most years, i'm just already under the assumption that
the ship has sailed and that and and I've kind
of thought I would feel that way today, But when
things start happening like they have today, you kind of
throw all preconceived notions out for a minute and say, Okay,
the NFL is.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Doing crazy things.

Speaker 4 (02:52):
Yeah, so maybe a crazy thing could happen, but I'm
not counting on it right now.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
But the NFL is a little unhinged at the moment. Well,
Logan Wilson has gone, yeah, that did happen. He's been
traded by the Cowboys to the or by the Bengals
to the Dallas Cowboys. So he goes from one awful
defense to another slightly less awful defense. Bengals get a
seventh round pick in exchange for Logan. The barometer for
any Bengals trade, or any Bengals maneuver where they cut

(03:18):
a player is whether or not on the press release
there's a quote from somebody, and Logan got a quote
from Zach Taylor And what level did this come from?
This wasn't gonna be a Mike Brown.

Speaker 4 (03:28):
No, the Mike Brown is top of the line. Uh yeah,
you know, I'm still I'm not. It's certainly not surprising
when you consider his situation. It is surprising when you
consider the Bengals breaking from history.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
Again.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
You know, we've never really seen them, you know, do
many in season.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
Trades, trades hardly at all.

Speaker 4 (03:52):
Then this year, not only did they for the first
time trade with the Browns and go get the quarterback
in Joe Flacco, but now, for the first time ever,
they trade away someone who could help them this year
that hadn't sort of blown up their way out of town.
I don't know, however you view the trade request issued
by Logan.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
I didn't feel like it was anything.

Speaker 4 (04:10):
It's certainly in the vicinity of Carlos Dumbmap or Carson Palmer,
but I think it's a recognition of this might be
just an addition by subtraction. And I don't mean that
as Logan is not a good player. It's look, they've
chosen to go down this road. We're going down this
road with Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight. And I actually

(04:32):
felt like Zach Taylor essentially announced this trade at the
press conference on Monday when he went onto a long
spiel about Sam Hubbard and the analogy about Sam Hubbard
not really feeling able to put himself out there and
really become a leader early in his career because Carlos
and Gino were in the room with him, and who

(04:52):
is he to speak up? And even though he had
a lot of respect and people understood who he was
and he worked hard and he was everything they wanted
to be about going forward, he could read the room
and see, that's not my place.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
To say anything.

Speaker 4 (05:04):
You gotta get those guys out of there for the
if you want the young people to then grow up.
And and I feel like the benching was the beginning
of this, and now this trade is the finalization of this,
of saying, we just want these guys to be our future,
and we think leadership traits is part of that. And
you know, I talked to Barrett today and he said,

(05:24):
you know, to that idea, to that question, the idea
of like, yeah, yeah, I did feel like.

Speaker 5 (05:28):
I need to read the room.

Speaker 4 (05:29):
I you know that guy loves Logan Wilson, right, I
mean her, He professed that openly today. Is like it's
gonna be for life what he did for me, and
he was the first person to text him, and so
many things, A ton of respect you. I had so
much respect you. I'm not gonna step on that guy's toes. Yeah,
you you feel a little bit of a need to
go and now you can more fill that space. I

(05:52):
also thought he said the right thing with that of like,
but it starts with playing better, Like you have to
play better. And the truth is, no one's fotollowing anybody
that plays terribly anywhere. Okay, so until that starts, until
they start actually playing better, none of this other stuff matters.
But you know, maybe that if they're hoping that they'll
start playing better and then they'll feel a little bit

(06:14):
more open to let the other stuff start to show
a little more.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
Well, and if you could add a seventh round pick
obviously to the arsenal of selections the Bengals will have
next year, it's just it's just more damage they can
do in the draft.

Speaker 4 (06:26):
It's something yeah, right, yeah, let's let's go down the
what's your favorite seventh round pick?

Speaker 3 (06:31):
Right, let's go down not Kyle Manogi or right, I
mean a guy how do we say his name? Manangay, Manangay,
Thank you, Kyle Manangai. That that's my least favorite seventh
round pick of all the time. Pretty good, yeah, pretty good.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
You know it can apparently run for a lot of
yards when they're there available to them.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
I could run for a lot of yards against this defense.
So we'll tap the brakes on that just a little bit.
But there's my least round pick. Yeah, that's that's that's fair.
You were an oudentate guy at one point. No I
was not no, no I was. I was a T. J.
Hushman zaa guy he was a seventh round pay.

Speaker 4 (07:05):
That's I think that's a lot of people's favorite seventh
round paper.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
So the deadline is forty nine minutes away. By my calculation,
you have done Tuesday with me for eleven years. I
think that's accurate. Yeah, it's eleven years, So that's eleven
trade deadline Tuesdays. Usually we barely mention it. Yeah, I
detect from you a little pensiveness, Yeah, a little bit

(07:30):
the deadline, like a little bit. Maybe something could happen.

Speaker 4 (07:33):
Maybe, I don't know, Like I just think the the
nature of today in the NFL keeps me a little
bit more on edge, in the fact that teams are
hunting and calling about Trey Hendrickson.

Speaker 6 (07:45):
I had.

Speaker 4 (07:46):
The Bengals have been pretty resolute. I've never gotten the
feeling during this and I've written it that they were
ever gonna do that. Yeah, but I think that's because
they knew their asking price would continue to be the
same number that no one has ever been willing to meet.
And so if the league is now doing things where
people are throwing around first round picks, then maybe maybe

(08:08):
that could you could see a desperation move come from somebody,
And we knew anybody that is close to this team
knows that that was the only thing that was gonna happen.
Here would be a desperate, a desperation move where the
Bengals feel like they would be pretty big winners in
a deal. Because here's the thing, and I've said this
a million times and why this has never made sense
to me, and it would be the all it would

(08:30):
be the ultimate change is they're just not gonna wave
the white flag on the season, whether you think they
should or not. I just don't see a world where
right now they're gonna wave the white flag on this season.
Giving up Trey Hendrickson would be saying it's over, we quit,
we're not trying. That has never been their philosophy. That

(08:52):
has never been something they would ever allow or really
stand for. Yeah, the Logan Wilson thing is like, again
I talked about it, but it's like it's like a
tiny version of the tiniest version of that.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
That's a small departure.

Speaker 4 (09:06):
B It's why they've never made in season trades giving
up someone who can help them because they're just not
gonna wave the white flag in any capacity. So for
that reason is why it's never really felt like something
was going to happen here because Trey Hendrickson is the
one guy that can actually make things look different on
the defensive side of the ball. If Trey plays in

(09:29):
the second half the last four weeks, they the last
two weeks even they probably win both those games. He's
a closer. It's literally the one still they needed. Yes,
the one skill they made the last two weeks was
what he is, maybe as good at as anybody in football.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
Has been here. He has closed out for years.

Speaker 4 (09:48):
Remember, you know, Joe Burrow and quarterback, come on Trey, like,
you know what time it is. The last two weeks,
it's been Trey time, and he hasn't been out there.
And they don't have anybody who is remotely like him
or even you know, his New Orleans version of himself.
They don't have anything that looks like that, and so

(10:10):
the games have ended the way they have. I feel
like if they had a full Trey Hendrickson out there,
they would have finished both of those games off and
would be in a different place.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
They didn't. It doesn't matter.

Speaker 4 (10:22):
But if you're talking about like how could the second
half look different? I look at the on off splits
this year from Trey Hendrickson when he's on the field
this year and when he hasn't been.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
And really this goes back because isn't just.

Speaker 4 (10:33):
The shit, they're just massive. They're two different, totally different defenses.
And so when we talk about all these historical futility
in the second halves and games in a hole, but
certainly in the second halves, we've seen this over and
over again. Trey Hendrickson with zero second half snaps the
last four weeks because he's gotten hurt in the first

(10:55):
half of the two games he tried to play him.
And you see the difference. You see what's happening, and
they just don't have any answers regardless. No one's saying
they'd be great, no one's saying they'd even be serviceable.
But it could be enough to win when you score
forty two, right, and I just don't see them saying
we're gonna take that chance off the table.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
That's that's what's felt like.

Speaker 4 (11:17):
The biggest driver for me in the conversation around him
before the last you know, forty eight hours.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
So we've seen Sauce Gardner get traded by the Jets
to the Colts. Two first rounders involved is that move
in particular the one that is giving you slight pause
as it relates to what they may do with Trey.

Speaker 4 (11:36):
Yeah, I mean I think both jets. I mean the
Quinn Williams to Dallas, which I have a thought on
at some point if you want to hear it. Yeah,
But like I think that that is the thing that Okay,
teams are out here. You know, there's right, it's the
it's the FM Pick's mentality Storry with three. I think
there's there's lots of the Jags. Like, there's just teams

(11:58):
that are just so much more will to say, you
know what, let's go now.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
It feels accessible.

Speaker 4 (12:04):
The super Bowl feels on the table for Seattle, for Indianapolis,
for Dallas at three five and one. You know they're
sitting here saying, let's go for it now. Sauce and
Quinn in The difference for them is they're under contract
for multiple years and Hendrickson is clearly a rental. But
if a team feels like they really want it that,

(12:24):
I think that gives you pause when you see the
aggressiveness level happening.

Speaker 3 (12:28):
It's a sense.

Speaker 4 (12:30):
Around the league that the Super Bowl can be taken by.

Speaker 5 (12:34):
A team that makes the right move today.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
Is Trey the only current Bengal that's on your radar
as it relates to a possible deal, Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 4 (12:46):
I mean there are others that I mean, there's really
very few players I wouldn't I mean, I wouldn't trade
DJ Turner.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
No, and that might be it on defense, right, like, oh,
on defense? That is it? Yeah, I'm not. The list
is DJ Turner. The list is DJ Turner.

Speaker 4 (13:03):
I'm keeping Uh, that's and that's pretty much, you know,
that's probably it I would listen to. I mean, you
would think maybe somebody like Osai or a bj Hill would.

Speaker 5 (13:12):
Have some kind of if anybody was just looking.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
For depth or whatever. Yeah, maybe, I mean McKinley Jackson,
our teams beating down the Bengals not quite hadn't seen
that yet.

Speaker 4 (13:24):
Look, still still still poking around, though there's still time.
We got forty two minutes for the the Jackson rush.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
Would then this might be a stupid question. Would a
Cam Taylor Britt or a Dax Hill illicit interest from
a team that's like, you know what, they're still upside,
we can fix them.

Speaker 4 (13:41):
Yeah, I think Dax would. I think there's enough there
with Dax and and maybe maybe someone would look at
Cam and say, give me a shot. Maybe maybe that's
where lou Ana Rumo's conversation started with Chris Ballard in Indianapolis.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
He's like, look, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (13:56):
If you can't get me Cam, I guess okay, right,
Like I guess we'll just google go that way. Maybe
that's how that began. But yeah, I think that there
would be I don't know. I don't think so. I mean,
it's it's hard for how does anybody watch the tape? No,
you know, and it's like, I think that's gonna put

(14:16):
us over the top. No, there are none.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
I mean, but I there are times where a move
is made involving a player where you're like, man, that
guy's no good, and the team that acquired to me go, okay,
they must have had a great grade on them, and
they think in a different system they can get more
out of them. And Cam, Taylor, brid and Dax Hill
struck me as players that someone may view through that lens.
But I certainly didn't wake up this morning think they're

(14:40):
gonna trade me one of those guys.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
No, And you know, I mean, you know, the Cam
roller coaster is well documented. I think they feel like
maybe they're on one of those good upswings with Cam today.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
A lot of ball to go.

Speaker 4 (14:53):
Yeah, yeah, No, we know what comes up. It's like
when the chain's pulling you up the hill. It's not stopping. Okay,
it doesn't just keep going up into the clouds. We
know that we.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
Know what comes on the other side.

Speaker 4 (15:03):
But I think that there's a feeling like, Okay, maybe
there's some stability with with dj and and Dax and
if they can start to get CAM back on the
right track at least for right now.

Speaker 5 (15:16):
But that's all. That's kind of a separate story.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
Forty one minutes away from the trade deadline.

Speaker 5 (15:20):
Oh, Ken, you need like a clock sounder, a tick sounder.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
In years past, I think we've had Tarren play some
sort of obnoxious you know, horn Blair or something that
we could we can get that And no, you don't
want I'm not a horn Blair guy. No, it has
to get people's attention. I just think a little clock,
there's a little ticking, that's all. Do you want the
ticking in the background for the duration of the top
of your I mean maybe going maybe something in some
of your buyers tear little teasers that you do. Taryn

(15:47):
Tarren producing back and Ken we'll he'll have something ready
for us. It is twenty minutes after three o'clock trade deadline.
Is it for Paul Danner Juniors? With us? Till then?
We are here at Oakley Greens until five thirty today,
hanging out on a gorgeous Tuesday afternoon on ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
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Speaker 2 (16:42):
This report is sponsored by This is Football in the NATI,
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Skyline Chile on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of
the Cincinnati Bengals five after three o'clock.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Bolegger with Paul Danner Junior
from the Athletic dot Com and the Growler podcast, which
I get to be a part of tomorrow. Yeah, that's fun.
Tomorrow Trade deadline recap, Yeah, sort of thing. No, just no,
I think.

Speaker 4 (17:13):
Jay and I are are doing live tonight at seven thirty, okay,
and we're gonna do trade deadline stuff and the normal
PD and Jay.

Speaker 3 (17:20):
So I can watch that on YouTube to catch up.
And now then I'm we're just gonna see where you
and I go tomorrow. That's why those are my favorite shows.
Those are my favorite shows with you and when when
we just sort.

Speaker 4 (17:31):
Of turn the mics on and and just go with
a discuss this.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
Let's see where this goes. So it's Trade Deadline right
four o'clock. Yeah. With every passing minute, I see you
looking more and more relaxed. I'm getting I'm getting there.
I'm getting there. It's always nerve racking. Who is making
the decisions for the Bengals today in the front office
it's Duke Tobin. Yes, who will be making the Bengals

(17:58):
decisions tomorrow.

Speaker 5 (18:00):
Duke Tobin was making the Begals decisions.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
Smile. Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk says, quote, there's bubbling
up now the duke Tobin is going to be out,
maybe during the bye week. Maybe suoner heads are gonna
roll in Cincinnati. What do I do with that?

Speaker 4 (18:14):
Well, first, I didn't know it was Floria season already.
That we had to go said, yeah, he's like a
he he's like a winter guy.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
Combine, Yeah, yeah, you need.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
The first snowfall till it's Floria.

Speaker 5 (18:26):
It's a little early.

Speaker 4 (18:28):
I will say, if there was one person on earth
that would not know.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
This answer, it might be Mike Floria.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
But I just you know, I don't think that he
has connections inside of the building that way. I I
do not look that we're in We're in the chaos
times right now. Okay, this is there's a lot going
on in terms of the team. Has we haven't seen

(18:59):
it be in this shape. You know, the last time
it was in this shape.

Speaker 5 (19:04):
The move was about Marvin Lewis.

Speaker 4 (19:05):
And they made the move, and you know, it was
sixteen years and so much of that and then things
were it was the good times.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
It was the good old days after that.

Speaker 4 (19:16):
So we haven't really Duke has never been in the
crosshairs like this, and his role has never really been
challenged at any level like this. In terms of that,
I don't you know, it just feels that feels like

(19:37):
an aggressive thing to say.

Speaker 5 (19:38):
First of all, as soon as.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
The bye week is literally right now, So you're saying
this person could be fired anytime from today to the
end of the earth. Okay, as soon as right now
he could be fired, and then anytime after that. Right,
I think that there's Yes, he's under the microscope. You

(20:03):
and I have talked about, talked about this last week.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yes, So I.

Speaker 4 (20:05):
Don't like, I don't want to have to keep doing
this every week. I understand that we have to right
now because of you know what Mike said, But like
I just feel like, yes, there is more focus. Yes,
I think there's more cracks here than we've ever seen,
but it's just would still be so stunning. He's still

(20:27):
part of everything they believe in as an organization and
what he's been such a central part of everything there.
I think everything is on the table right now because
of the nature of we've just never seen anything quite
like this, and you've put it perfectly I've heard.

Speaker 5 (20:44):
You talk about this multiple times.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
Of look like, this is your job to fix this defense,
and it's just gotten so much worse. It feels so unrecoverable.
And it's all because of so many of these picks
are not panning out. And at what point and the
free agent things that have happened, Like, at what point
does all of this just pile up where it's just

(21:10):
for the betterment of everybody that you try doing something different.
I think the logical side of it is no one
is gonna contend with that. It's just the reality side
of what it actually happened. I'm not buying that just yet.

Speaker 5 (21:24):
I'm just not.

Speaker 4 (21:26):
But you know that anybody can, anybody can say that
things are bubbling up, and no one will care if
they don't, no one will call back to that.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
I think there's bubbling up amongst US fans. It's bubbling
up that's undeniable. Yeah, there's a pretty sharp difference between
bubbling up here with idiots like me and bubbling up
among people who are in a decision making capacity at
pay Court Stadium. Yes, and there's no distinction in what

(21:56):
Mike is referring to, Like bubbling up is that in Cincinnati,
their mad Duke Tobin. Yes, yes, the main roll. Yeah,
I don't.

Speaker 4 (22:03):
People aren't just gonna come out of this thing unscathed,
like obviously, but who is that?

Speaker 3 (22:08):
I mean, there's there's levels to.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
This, as they say, I mean, and and I just
think that's, uh, that's a level that is I mean,
it takes unprecedented times and here we are, right, So
so I'm not I don't want to sit here and
rule anything out, but like it that doesn't it certainly
didn't land or really register with me as something that

(22:30):
I feel like.

Speaker 5 (22:33):
Makes a whole lot of sense in this in this
exact way.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
I have a few questions kind of related to this specifically, Okay,
but I do want to get a break and let
me let me ask you this though before we pause.
So last week we talked about it feels like this
is really the first time where Duke Tobin is in
the public's crossairs, and you said, you know, this is
the first time, and I'm paraphrasing here, this is the

(22:57):
first time where it's plausible that maybe they do something,
but still so unlikely that if they did it, it would
be shocking. Would you frame it the same way after Sunday.

Speaker 4 (23:09):
Yeah, I mean, you can only take so many of those.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
Yeah, I mean, I still I still think that at
at the end of.

Speaker 4 (23:22):
The day, you know, there is a a patience and
a need to see everything play itself out.

Speaker 5 (23:32):
And maybe some people say it played out like we
saw it.

Speaker 3 (23:35):
You know, this is it.

Speaker 5 (23:35):
It's it's been, it's played. But there's that's always that's always, even.

Speaker 4 (23:41):
Going back to Marvin Lewis here, you know, I feel
like it's let's see the whole book. Mike in the
family are let's see the whole book before we judge it,
and let's not go in and so doing it now
before a lot of these young players that they're clearing
the decks for have a chance to show the level
of improvement they're looking for.

Speaker 5 (24:03):
Would be again just crazy, out of character.

Speaker 4 (24:09):
And maybe that's what they I mean, there's a lot
of arguments about that's what they need. I think most
people would make those right now, but I'm trying to
speak in the reality of how realistic I think it is.
It would be stunning and out of characters still even
to me, even after even after.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
What happens, it's got twenty seven minutes counting it down.
Where's the ticker? I'm listening. I don't hear it. Terren's
working on it.

Speaker 4 (24:34):
He's working on it. He's trying to find that. They're
trying to find the ticker anything on this here internet.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
Well, yeah, you're right. I don't have a joke, but
terrens I'm sure he's working on it. Oh, yeah, he's
got it. Is twenty seven away from four o'clock and
the trade deadline. Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and
the Growler podcast Live tonight at seven thirty with Jay Morrison.
There it is. Oh, look at that Commings. I knew
you'd come through Tarran, Yeah, I knew it. Man.

Speaker 5 (25:02):
If that can happen, anything can.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
Happen anything, literally anything. Possibilities are endless. Sports headlines coming
up were in Oakley Greens on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati
Sports Station.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
You've been listening to football in the NATI, brought to
you by Cincinnati Tax Resolution powered by Tefe Sheldon on
ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 8 (25:27):
Here at since three sixty, there's no shortage of things
to talk about, whether it's the Bengals search for a quarterback,
the Bearcats Search for Supremacy or the Red Search for Offense.
Listen to since E three to sixty weekdays at noon
on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic from the.

Speaker 7 (25:49):
a care plan fast meet with a specialist. In today's
call five one three five eight five UCCC. On the
Ohio side of westbound two seventy five, there is a
disabled vehicle on the entrance ramp from seventy one. The

(26:10):
right lane blocked off on the ramp. What's their pike?
Also an accident at Oak Street in slow traffic northbound
seventy five. Mitchell the paddock, I'm atie zelek with traffic.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
This report is sponsored by Cheval home of lifetime powertrain
protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours
for life, Kelsey chev dot com. Logan Wilson has been
traded by the Bengals to the Dallas Cowboys, Cincinnati getting
a return a seventh round pick in the twenty twenty
sixth draft. Clearly that player will be a franchise altering acquisition.

(26:44):
The trade deadline is in twenty one minutes. We'll see
if Cincinnati acquires any more draft picks for Duke Tobin
to waste. Bengals have a bye this week. They're in
Pittsburgh week from Sunday. Take on the Steelers on ESPN
fifteen thirty. Former UC star Sauce Gardner traded by the
New York Jets to the Indianapolis Colts, where he gets
to be coached by lul Anarumo. In exchange, indiescends to

(27:06):
the Jets a pair of first round picks. Kentucky Basketball
tonight on ESPN fifteen thirty. Kentucky battling Nickel State pregame
show at five thirty. Tip all tonight at seven pm
right here on ESPN fifteen thirty. Who you think won
the battle between Duke Tobin and Louannarumo. Mo hemo, This
team is seven to two. I know he gets to

(27:27):
coach Sauce Gardner. I didn't have to move very far.
He just keeps getting great players thrown into his laugh.
He's on it. They keep winning. They don't have to
be great defensively. They can do lou Anarumo ben but
don't break, which statistically they do. And then everything you
want to happen.

Speaker 4 (27:42):
When you have a blow up that leads to you
leaving a job or you get fired, you just want
the other place to be in shambos stress. That's all
you want. You just want you all your former co
workers and friends. You want them to be calling you
being like, this is a disaster. You just want to
hear all the horror story. And so I just you
gotta feel like he just like goes he collects his

(28:04):
w cracks open a cold on the couch.

Speaker 5 (28:06):
He's like, let's watch some Bengals highlights.

Speaker 4 (28:08):
Right like, and just sits up every Sunday night. Uh,
and then then waits for the call Chris Ballad to
tell them that they're giving him sauce Gardner. It's just
an embarrassment of riches for for lou over there right now.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
A few more questions about Tobin, okay, and maybe what
it would look like if they did move on. We
haven't had a de facto general manager search. What would
that look like?

Speaker 4 (28:34):
I mean, well, I think you probably in the meantime,
you would probably have one of the three agms would
step in, right You'd have Trey Brown or Steve Orusivik
or Mike Potts, they're they're there right. Trey has has
notably interviewed for GM jobs across the league. He'd be familiar,

(28:55):
Like if you were doing something like that, you probably
would would start there and then open up. I don't know.
I mean, we've never and it's so this is the heart,
it's so gray. There's so much unknown onto what any
of this would look like. And truthfully too, like, you know,

(29:17):
is Mike gonna be like we need a new guy?
Like because there's it's a unique situation there where they
like Duke for the fact that they it's a very
tough relationship to manage with him and the family and
the football aspect and what Mike still does and what

(29:38):
he does and his role and all. It's just all
of it is really hard to step into and have
a feel for. So I I don't know that anybody
could sit here and say they would know what that
would actually look like, you know, because we haven't ever

(29:58):
really seen it.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
When this possibility has come up, even when it has
seemed extraordinarily unrealistic, many have countered with who would want
that job? Is that a fair way to look at
it because of what you just outlined. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (30:16):
I think a lot of people would do you want
patients and job security?

Speaker 3 (30:21):
You know? I mean do you want?

Speaker 4 (30:22):
I mean they have when new head coach like Zach
Taylor is coming in, they have given him rain.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
To do a lot of things that he wanted to do.

Speaker 5 (30:31):
They've been willing to make changes.

Speaker 4 (30:32):
They have been a bit adaptable as an organization, specifically
comparison to previous times.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
You have Joe Burrow like it's important.

Speaker 4 (30:44):
Yeah, I mean, you have the hard stuff here in
place in a lot of ways, I don't think. And
the biggest problem that many gms in this league face
is feeling like they have to make moves for their
jobs and you don't have to do that here. You
can play the longer game the same way that Baltimore

(31:06):
and Pittsburgh do and and in the success that I
think that those two teams and the Bengals have had
in this division in comparison to like, you know, when
you see the the interchanging that happens with Cleveland or
a lot of other places that are unstable across the league.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
Is part of what.

Speaker 4 (31:22):
Would make a job like that one that people would
want everybody. Everybody has a challenging ownership situation in some way,
Like there's only so many openings that happen where it's like, oh,
but the ownership is just clean. It can be no
issues there. You're gonna that's that's that's the NFL man.
You gotta you got it the same way we used

(31:43):
to talk about this with Marvin Lewis and and and
the job is as much about managing up as it
is managing down. You have to be able to make
all sides work and get your vision across, like that's
gonna be part of that here, the same as it
would be in any market that has an NFL team
in America.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
One more on this and then I will ask about
other things. So Florio says heads will roll. You don't
disagree with that. So if Duke Tobin's head is not
the most likely to roll, whose head will be rolling?

Speaker 4 (32:17):
Well, I mean we know Zach Taylor is on the seat.
You have to be in some capacity. I mean we
talked about this the moment they let go of a Luannarumo,
like you only get to do this once. And so
I think that's clear.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
Even with all the.

Speaker 4 (32:34):
Things happening offensively that have been good. You know, he's
not gonna to me. We're at the point where you're
not judging him for that as much.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
We've established that you can have good.

Speaker 4 (32:46):
Offenses, yes, and you can do it apparently with multiple
quarterbacks that both times he's been given backup quarterbacks besides
Joe Burrow. It's been remarkable what they've been able to
do offensively. What they're doing right now is a masterclass.
But the bottom line is, and you know, I asked
about this on Monday specifically because of this is you know,
what are what are you gonna do to help the defense?

(33:08):
And the answer is that's not my specialty, Like I'm.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
Here to help.

Speaker 4 (33:11):
And they're building the thing and things that that that
they find tough and challenging as an offense. At a
certain point, as the head coach that this team has
to fix their defense. They have the quarterback, like you
have the quarterback that can that can make your offense go.
You you need people that can figure out what's going
on defensively, and too often, uh, the defense just hasn't

(33:35):
been able to figure itself out in here. And so
if if that's the direction that you're gonna look at
things and say, Okay, let's pair a defensive head coach
with with Joe Burrow. Then maybe then maybe that's you know,
you could see that being a direction that that you
would want to go. That's worked before. You're thinking Brady
Belichick all that type of stuff, right, and and you

(33:55):
can maybe go forward some in that way.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
But that's that's.

Speaker 5 (34:00):
Part of the conversation. That would be the heads.

Speaker 4 (34:02):
I mean, this is what you're where you're when you
reach historical levels, when when every week is a new
set of five or six things, this league has not
seen triangles the sixty six New York Siety six Giants.
Jay had a stat with like the twenty one like

(34:23):
a team I'd never the Takawanda something's I was like,
they didn't even have like a forward pass at that point,
Like when you're when when these are the comparisons where
this is all we can find that has ever looked
like this. Yeah, like everybody of any importance in the
building is under fire.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
There's there's no doubt.

Speaker 4 (34:45):
And that doesn't mean that we know how it's gonna go,
but yeah, it's it's everybody.

Speaker 3 (34:51):
You wrote after the game about going into the locker
room and not a lot of defensive guys wanted to talk.
Some did, and you pointed that out. You reference there
being laughter in certain corners of the locker room. How
sharp of a departure was that on Sunday from other
similar low points with that side of the ball or

(35:12):
even the other side of the ball since you've been
covering the team.

Speaker 4 (35:16):
Uh, A decent amount. I mean, the the the lack
of fire and the lack of seriousness that you felt
over there. They just the guy, the people that you
did see or hear from felt sounded beaten down and demoralized.
And then you had a lot of young players who

(35:37):
just didn't seem to think that they had any real
reason to care about certainly us not they not they
only anything that every time Like, no, this is not
about taking stock, right, But this is about that. It
is about comparing to what it looks like when teams
do pull out of it and not that right. So
my my thing is I felt like and I don't know,

(35:59):
like what with Chase Brown is kind of a separate
story that I I just I wanted to see where
are the players not just Sunday, during this entire downfall
of this defense. That sound like Jamar Chase, that sound
like Chase Brown. I don't care if your emotion comes
out right or wrong.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
I want to see it. Yes, where is it where?

Speaker 4 (36:23):
That's what you usually get right before it gets to
the beaten down, demoralized portion of the program. You usually
see the like dude who wants everyone to know this
ain't me and I hate that this is where we're
at and we got to get this and maybe they maybe, Man,
these players only meetings are just just tearing the paint
off the wall. I don't, you know whatever, I don't

(36:46):
is there gonna be another one? I mean, I feel
like you just keep having bye week. It was one
thing that I that I was looking for when I
walked in the locker room today and you know exactly
what it was.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
Punk table, ping pong table.

Speaker 5 (36:57):
I said, no, it was nothing to change the ping
pong table.

Speaker 4 (36:59):
Maybe next Okay, after the bye week, after a week
of retrospection, they came back and said, we think we've
got it.

Speaker 5 (37:05):
Ping pong table.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
Right, Maybe that's where they go next to it. I mean,
but that's my point.

Speaker 4 (37:11):
Is is I feel like you usually see the blow up,
the emotion, the like fire in the form of some
kind of weather. It's anger, even if it's misplaced, or
like guys getting at each other a little bit more
like there just.

Speaker 5 (37:25):
Really hasn't been hardly any of that over there.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
It's just felt like a went wrong again.

Speaker 4 (37:32):
Yeah, we missed the tackles and we just got to
keep working at it and we're gonna get it right,
and we're looking for leaders, and it's.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
Just where's the fire? Yeah? Where? Where?

Speaker 4 (37:42):
Where are seven guys on defense that sound and look
like Jamar Chase and Chase Brown and some of the
other people and and you know, it's just it's not
that that has to be the way out, Like there's
you want to be smarter and more constructive in the
way that you deal with your problems, but it has

(38:03):
to start with the true fire and want to be
better and feeling pushed and driven to just not accept
any of what's happening on your watch as a player,
and that just where is that where is Like I'm
not right, that just hasn't really existed yet to this point.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
You want the defense to.

Speaker 5 (38:24):
Be as angry as the offense seems to be.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
What I feel bad about, among a lot of things,
is because there's just so much stuff happening here. We
don't have enough time to examine the difference between the
quarterback ball and the kicking ball.

Speaker 4 (38:38):
Oh I got to see them side by side too. Yeah,
they're like they're from different sports. It's unbelievable, right, how
different they are. I never would have thought that they
really were that different. It looks like if you put
a football next to a rugby ball or whatever. Yeah,
I mean it's they're totally different. They feel different, they
are shaped different, they're the leather, all of it is

(38:59):
like totally rougher and different.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah, it's it's unbelievable. But the Bengals hosted demonstration for
you so they can make it. Yeah, they showed me.
They showed me the two side by side. Why why
White cut the long snapper, touch it and go huh?
Does the scoring play call a time out? Are you
allowed to do that? I know they once once the
offenses on the field, they put the quarterback ball in

(39:21):
the field, they're not gonna swap out the ball, but
are you allowed to call it out the.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
Discretion of the sideline referee? Weather Because they don't get this.
They don't want to be caught being the ones when
the CA ball has to come in to have to
toss it and want their like referee to be juggling
it and unable to get it. So they make it
their discretion whether they have to restart the play clock
or not. And the last thing they want have to
do is restart a play clock apparently no matter what.

(39:44):
So that includes like not running out there with the
ball and handing it to them or anything like that.
They just say, Nope, not gonna get the CA ball
in and they and they rule it off and you
have to go. You have to go play with it
and unless you unless you do stop the clock or whatever,
and like, uh, this happened with this happened with Tennessee. Yeah,
with this big part of Brian callihan situation. They took

(40:05):
a delay and had to kick a sixty two yard
to get the other ball in there. They're so different now.
The difference is way bigger this year than ever has been.
But I'm like, okay, So the referees don't want to
look dumb, so they make the kicker look dumb right instead.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
Yeah, like you know, way more the coach look dumb
for having the offense on the field on fourth and
thirteen and then oh, you know what, maybe we want
to kick here, but that that whole thing was a mess.

Speaker 4 (40:27):
Yeah, it was an absolute mess, right, but the bottom
line is like this should not be about this also
should not be about restarting the play clock, like look,
get the get the right ball is yes, you know,
and then to me, can you just have can can
will Wagner have the kick caball under his arm at
all times and.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
Be able to go run out there and hand it
to the official. He's that should be long. You're on
the field for this one play. You have the ball
and if you can't bring the proper ball out then
your team suffers because of it. You will handle the
CA ball. Yes, we solve this. The job job by us.
Wait again, but we're like out of time, But you
wanted to say something about that, Quinna Williamstrang.

Speaker 4 (41:04):
That's what I would have done if I were the Bengals. Yeah,
I would have traded Trey Hendrickson. Use the compensation you
get back from trading Trey Hendrickson to help fuel a
deal for a real player who's going to be here
for multiple years going forward, and help fix your pass
rush right now and for essentially the same amount of
money that you already have. Trey Hendrickson, Like, if you're
paying him right now, it could help you know you

(41:26):
you have that money available if you ever have done
an extension with him at one point, can you be
the de facto GM, I'll apply. We still come here
on Tuesdays, I'll be I'll be so accessible. I'm gonna
be at the bye week. Then forget the bye weekend.
After the season, every game, I'm here every Tuesday Day

(41:47):
from three to four.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
Yeah, that's it. It's it's GM Tuesdays. Your due. Bosses
will love GM. Yes, all right. Tonight seven thirty special
Live Growler podcast, Paul and Jay talking about everything swirling
around the team, the Logan Wilson trade, a trade that
may come in the next six minutes. Bubbling general, bubbling, general, bubbling. Yeah,
we guys have any bubbling with you?

Speaker 4 (42:10):
We might, we might We need it this season at
this point I've never needed needed bubbles in good by
week for the bye weekn Yes, I have right now?

Speaker 3 (42:18):
All right? Check that out tonight seven thirty YouTube and
where you get your podcasts and uh Repauldeathletic dot com.
We're at Oakley Greens. Paul, thank you so much. Pleasure.
I'm here at all five thirty. We've got a lot
of Bengal stuff to get to. FC Cincinnati is getting
set for Saturday. Sasha question from MLS's a past. Apple
TV is going to join us in just about ten

(42:38):
minutes on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic from.

Speaker 7 (42:47):
The UC Health Traffic Center. The Lung Cancer Rapid Access
Program at the UC Cancer Center is built to give
you a care plan fast meet with a specialist. In
twoday's call five one three eight five u CCC. On
the Ohio side of westbound two seventy five, there is
a disabled vehicle on the entrance ramp from seventy one.

(43:09):
The right lane blocked off on the ramp. What's their pike?
Also an accident at Oak Street in slow traffic northbound
seventy five. Mitchell the paddock. I'm at e Zelk with traffic.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
This report is Dad's win enter it now ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (43:26):
No, it's five minutes after four o'clock. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty. Opolegger, thank you so much for listening today.
There is a lot going on here at Oakley Greens,
by the way, awesome place on Saturday evening to watch
FC Cincinnati versus Columbus Game three, the final game. FC

(43:46):
Cincinnati could not close out Columbus in Game two on
Sunday night, so pivotal decisive Game three six o'clock is
your kick. You could watch it here on MLS Season
Pass on Apple TV, watch it at home on MLS
Season Pass on Apple TV. And what a great Saturday
of MLS soccer. You're gonna have FC Cincinnati and Columbus

(44:09):
and if the Orange and Blue win, they're gonna take
on either Miami or Nashville. That series has gone to
a Game three that immediately follows the hell is Real tilt.
So MLS Season Pass is gonna be very busy Apple TV.
The great Sasha question kind enough to join us to
talk about the series. Sasha, it's good to have you.
How are you?

Speaker 6 (44:26):
And I'm good?

Speaker 3 (44:27):
How you guys doing? We are well? So FC Cincinnati
kind of came on glued on Sunday, and I think
if that's a game in June, you can do what
Pat Noonan said and just kind of forget it right
burn the tape. How much more concerning was that performance
given the stakes of the game.

Speaker 9 (44:46):
Yeah, it was concerning. I think that Columbus came out
and played the game like it could be the last
game of their season, and they fought hard and Cincinnati
didn't match that intensity whatsoever, and so they were sent,
you know, they were sent, you know, to the showers,
I think, with a disgusted taste in their mouth after

(45:06):
the game. And I do kind of agree with Pat
Noonan that you just burn the tape and you say, hey, guys.

Speaker 6 (45:11):
Listen to or die time.

Speaker 9 (45:13):
Now, the mentality has got to be better. But also
if you just look up and down the pitch, I
don't think anybody on Cincinnati can say that they gave
everything they had in that game and that they played
up to their usual level.

Speaker 10 (45:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
I guess that was my takeaway, right. Columbus played desperate
FC Cincinnati the exact opposite of desperate, which, like I
get it, they had the breathing room of having a
one game to none lead, But this is the playoffs,
it's a rival. This trip between these two teams is
often not tilted in FC Cincinnati's direction. In games like this,

(45:44):
I walked away disappointed from just how it looked. If
you compare the two teams on Sunday.

Speaker 9 (45:49):
Well, I think every FC Cincinnati fan should be pretty
upset and pretty disgusted with the effort.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
You know.

Speaker 9 (45:56):
Obviously, I think when they come back home and play
at TQL State and the fans are going to be
behind the team and there they're.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
Going to be that twelfth man.

Speaker 9 (46:03):
They're going to be loud, they're going to be supportive,
and I think the Cincinnati players will thrive off of that.
But there were just a lot of performances up and
down the starting eleven that you can just say that's
nowhere near good enough in a game where you can
eliminate your biggest opponent, your biggest rival in State Darby,
and it just was not good enough at all.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
And it was glaring to me because I thought in
Game one, while it was just a one goal game,
they were in control. You know, Columbus didn't possess the
ball as often as they do. FC Cincinnati didn't feel
like it was helter skelter those final twenty twenty five
minutes once they took the lead, And so the performance
on Sunday was sobering on a number of levels. I
guess the comparison to Game one being one of them. Tactically,

(46:46):
is there an adjustment you'd like to see Pat noon
to make.

Speaker 9 (46:50):
No, I don't think it's tactical. I think it's gonna
end up being personnel decisions for him. Obviously, Kubo is
now suspended, so who plays on the left? You know,
does he go with Angle, who's a little bit more safe,
or does he go with Orishano, who's a little bit
more attacking and gives you a little bit more talent
on the field. Alvis Powell started in that game. I
don't think we see him start again. He was not

(47:11):
very good. So if Hagland is healthy, I would put
him straight back into the lineup. Otherwise then he's got
another decision to make. Us to who plays as his
third center back. If Wobado is healthy and you think
you can get seventy minutes out of it, does he
go back into the lineup. So Pat Newton's got some
big decisions to make personnel lies. But tactically no, I
think in Game one they played very good. They were

(47:33):
totally in control. Like you said, they probably should have
scored two or three more goals in that game, but
they never really seemed threatened.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
The East. We have three series coming down to a
game three, beyond Philadelphia closing out Chicago into how do
you handicap the remaining two series in the East beyond
FC Cincinnati and Columbus.

Speaker 6 (47:53):
So inter Miami.

Speaker 9 (47:55):
I thought going into this series against Nashville they would
wipe the floor with them, But then Nashville played very
good in Game two, also played with a great mentality,
a bunch of fire playing at home, you know, behind
their home fans, and they got themselves back into it.
So I know now going into Game three, I think
Miami is going to have some doubt creeping into their minds.
They're going to think back to last season when they
got eliminated by Atlanta in this same round in a

(48:16):
big upset, So that one's going to be close, But
I do think that Inter Miami is going to prevail.
Then we've got Charlotte against New York City, which is
a tough one to handicap because this game is the
series has been so tight. They've played one hundred and
eighty minutes.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
And scored one goal.

Speaker 9 (48:31):
It may come down to just a difference maker, and
it's hard to bet against Charlotte FC at home this season.
They've been so good now that Wilfrid Zaha is back,
I give the edge to Charlotte.

Speaker 3 (48:42):
You've got three game threes on Saturday, a game three
on Friday, another one on Sunday. It's going to be
an extraordinarily exciting weekend. Certainly a lot of fun down
at TQL Stadium. FC Cincinnati and Columbus. That game starts
at six o'clock. All the playoff coverage all weekend long
LS season pass, Apple TV. Sasha, we appreciate the time, man,

(49:03):
Thanks so much, Thanks so much.

Speaker 9 (49:05):
Talk to you guys soon.

Speaker 3 (49:06):
You got it. And you know for FC Cincinnati and
Columbus kind of takes center stage here in Cincinnati. The
Bengals don't play, Bearcats don't play. I think the weather
for Saturday should be pretty good. Six o'clock game, massive
party on the West end of Cincinnati. If the Orange
and Blue prevail, not so much. I guess. If Columbus
gets the win six o'clock on a Saturday, you can

(49:28):
listen to that match on Fox Sports thirteen sixty. We
are at Oakley Greens where you can watch that game,
where you could also watch your favorite college basketball team.
You know, UK plays tonight. Last night we had Cincinnati,
we had Xavier, we had NKU, we had Dayton, we
had Miami play. Last night, Ohio State played a game
where the two teams combined for two hundred and thirteen points.

(49:50):
Go watch your favorite college basketball team here at Oakley Greens.
We talk often about like you could post up and
watch football here. You can a full NFL slate on
Sunday minus the Bengals, all the college football games. But
it's a great place to watch college hoops all season long,
indoors or out. By the way, I have never seen
people work harder to put up holiday lights, Like I

(50:12):
might hire these dudes to like do my house because
I like having holiday lights up. I don't like putting
them up right. Number one, everybody in my neighborhood always
has an opinion. You know, I have a white lines.
They didn't get any blue or red? Is that all
you got? I just want to hire these dudes to

(50:33):
put up my lights. See if I can contract them out.
They are putting up holiday lights also while we are here,
and now we announced this yesterday. We're excited. This is
gonna last for a little bit more than a month,
we are sut up for the Ultimate Fan Cave Giveaway
thanks to Sim's Furniture. Now, this is how this works.
SIMS Furniture has given us this prize package of a

(50:54):
power recliner fifty five inch television TV console that's got
an electric fireplace so you can put your TV on
it and then turn it on. It'll heat up like
your entire house. You can snuggle up next to it,
an area rug I'm a big area rug guy. And
also an end table with a built in speaker. All
of those things together that's like a three thousand dollars value.

(51:17):
SIMS Furniture has given it to us to give away
while we're doing this Number one. You can go to
any of the five Greater Cincinnati area SIMS Furniture stores
and they'll give you a QR code and you click
on the QR code and you sign up and you're good.
Or you can come to one of our live broadcasts
like this one here at Oakley Greens hold your phone
up to the QR code. I just show my mom

(51:38):
over the weekend, had to do a QR code as
in Salt Lake City. My mom lives pretty close to
salt Lake City and we went to a restaurant where
the menu was a QR code, no idea, So I
had to show her So this would not maybe be
ideal for my mom. Plus he's not eligible. But scan
the QR code. You could do it here at Oakley Greens.
You could do it when we're out at other establishments,
or just go to any Sim's Furniture store. And we're

(52:02):
drawing the winner on December the seventh, so you can't
beat that. And again, like think about it. You can
redo like your entire living room or your basement, your
man cave, if that's what you want to call it.
We thank Sims Furniture for hooking us up. If you
can't get to Oakley Greens, we'll take it with us
to the next established We broadcast from Thanks to Sim's

(52:23):
Furniture for hooking us up with the Ultimate fan Cave
giveaway fourteen minutes after four o'clock. That was a painful
twenty minutes, by the way, showing not even twenty maybe five,
showing my mom how a QR code works, Like, I mean,
you know, she's asking, can I get a paper menu? Like, no,
we don't have paper menus. It's on your phone. I

(52:44):
don't know how to do that, like you literally your camera,
hold it, click, You're there, just just a comical display
of trying to think of the right word here age,
we'll call it age. It is a quarter after four.
NFL trade deadline is coming gone and unless there is

(53:04):
something breaking late, Trey Hendrickson is a Bengal, and so
or a whole lot of the other players not name
Logan Wilson. Logan Wilson's been traded. Chances are you know
that Trey Hendrick Logan Wilson's been traded. Trey Hendrickson, to
the best of our knowledge, has not. So status quo
remains for everybody but Logan Wilson. Let's talk about the

(53:25):
guy that we are probably not going to hear from
this week, but we should. Next on ESPN fifteen.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Thirty, since this is Football in the NATI, brought to
you by Modern Office Methods, on ESPN fifteen thirty, the
official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
Twenty eight minutes after four o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty,
Am Bowegger. We're broadcasting today from Oakley Greens which is awesome.
It's awesome that we're here. Oakley Greens is awesome. Bob
from Bowling Green is awesome. We're gonna talk with him
in just a second, Just a quick again. The NFL
trade deadline is coming gone. Logan Wilson traded this morning

(54:05):
to the Dallas Cowboys, who played just last night on
Monday Night Football. Sauce Gardner has been sent by the
Jets to the Indianapolis Colts in exchange for a couple
of first rounders, which is an interesting transaction. Then there's
the story. Mike Florio said this on Pro Football Talk
that there's bubbling around the Bengals that has him wondering

(54:27):
if Duke Tobin is going to be employed much longer,
and he says heads are going to roll in Cincinnati.
I'm ready for a fresh start, and I speak, I'm
a fan. I'm ready for a fresh start. I don't
love using a public forum like this to talk about

(54:48):
how people should lose their job. Among all the things
in my job, which is the best, ever, the only
thing I really don't like doing is saying that somebody
should be fired because I would like it, and let's
like that. But I'm just ready for a fresh start,
and I think it's there are times in a in
a franchisees evolution where it just it feels like it's

(55:12):
best to hit the reset button and not do it
to punish anybody, not do it for any vindictive reason,
just because what you're doing isn't working and it just
might be time for somebody else to give it a shot.
My guess is Duke Tobin's going to be employed by
the Bengals at the end of the season. We'll see
what that might mean for Zach Taylor. But this, when

(55:34):
it comes to player acquisition and roster construction isn't working.
Does Duke Tobin have things that work against him because
of how the Bengals just historically have done things, or
how the franchise is structured, or how they maybe don't
have the human resources so to speak, that other franchises have,

(55:58):
of course, but much of that might not change. If
you're Duke Tobin. You have a job with a certain
responsibility to get the job done within those parameters, and
if you can't, then I think you have to give
somebody else. This isn't about punishing. I think sometimes in
our business, and I think sometimes as fans, we just
we want bloodlust, like somebody's gotta pay for when something

(56:20):
goes poorly. I am completely uninterested in that. I'm interested
in the Cincinnati Bengals winning a championship while they still
have a dude at the most important position. I'm interested
in watching them not waste what they have. And I
just I have zero faith in the person in charge

(56:42):
of the roster being able to get that done. If
he's the guy next offseason, I certainly hope he does
a hell of a job with the draft, with free agency,
with roster construction. I just don't know how you could
look at the job that he has done in the
draft and the way the team has performed with his
roster over the last couple of years and legitimately feel

(57:04):
good about the direction of the Bengals are going in.
If status quo in the front office remains, that's it.
Twenty three minutes after four o'clock. Uh five three, fifteen
thirty is our phone number. We are actually guest free
until five twenty today. We got time drewby right now,
Bob and Bowling Green, thanks for hanging on. You're on
ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 6 (57:26):
Hey Mom, how are you well?

Speaker 3 (57:28):
How about yourself?

Speaker 6 (57:30):
Doing good?

Speaker 10 (57:30):
Doing good? Hey, I watched you Thieve game last night,
and speaking of roster construction, I really like what they've done.

Speaker 6 (57:38):
The The only thing.

Speaker 10 (57:39):
That kind of messed me up last night, mo Is
I was watching the game and there was a Da da,
a day day and a and a bapa, and I thought,
why don't we get Jelly Jones and Tuffy Kennedy to
show up and we could have a version of Sestame
Street or something.

Speaker 7 (57:58):
You know.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
It was a At one point, Dotta fouled Baba and
we pointed that out in the broadcast last night. Yes,
very international flavor, very international flavor to the Bearcats. I
thought the good outweighed the bad. I didn't love. I
didn't love how Western Carolina held its own on the glass.

(58:19):
I think they had fourteen offensive rebounds. You know, you
recognize at the pace that Wes wants his team to play,
you're gonna have to put up with some slop. But
the fifteen turnovers I thought were a little bit much
because it didn't feel like Western Carolina really forced many
of those turnovers. But Sean Abayah was certainly impressive, Boba
Miller was certainly impressive. At one point, Western Carolina was

(58:43):
trying to initiate its offense, and they had Boba Miller
at six foot eleven guarding the ball, and Western Carolina
was trying to set a ball screen for him, and
had they switched seven foot two, Mustafa Chom was going
to pick up the ball handler. That's not the sort
of scene, the sort of thing we've seen Bearcat Biggs

(59:03):
be able to do in a very long time.

Speaker 6 (59:07):
Oh, that's for sure.

Speaker 10 (59:08):
And actually somebody who's able to take the ball five
figs from the basket and score.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Yeah, somebody who's been able to take the ball five
feet from the basket. And I think the thing that
was most impressive to me watching Bob Bob Miller especially
was somebody because I thought I thought we'd see Dylan
Mitchell do this last year. Somebody who could grab it
off the glass on the defensive end and then handle
it himself right and bring it up the floor and
initiate the offense and not need a guard to come

(59:37):
circle back to the basketball. They had a sequence also
last night where there was a rebound, two passes without
the ball hitting the floor and a current crease of three.
Now he didn't make the shot. It felt like it
was a little bit rushed, but all off season long,
I think a lot of us have. You know, it's
inevitable you compare what you're doing now to what happened

(59:57):
the previous year. And I think you and I have
talked about this. Last year, it felt like Wes Miller,
they just let's acquire dudes, and we'll figure out who
can do what once they get here. It feels like
this year they really went out to build a roster
where the pieces fit and where roles could be a
little bit more clearly defined. And while maybe there's not

(01:00:18):
the kind of you know, role definition in November that
there should be in January, I do feel like watching
last night, you got a sense of who is supposed
to do what.

Speaker 10 (01:00:28):
Well, that's true, Mo, and I think more importantly, and
I know we've talked about this. I think at least
with Buck Harris and probably Creasa and maybe some other
guys as well. You got some guys in there that
I think we'll fight a little bit. And I don't
mean physically fight, but yeah, some tough guys.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
You know. We talked about that in the broadcast last night. Kirkriesa,
when he was playing in Arizona, I was lucky enough
to fill in for Dan when they played Arizona in
the Maui Invitation, and the Arizona broadcasters told me, by
the end of the night, you're going to hate kerk Crisa,
and they were wrong because it only took about five

(01:01:09):
minutes before I hated him. It has been years, It
has been years since you see has had that type
of player that the other teams fans love to hate
because he gets under your skin. And I think with
Buck Harris, and I am worried about his wrist because
you know, he came out of the game last night
and there was no real answer as to the severity

(01:01:32):
of it, but there was a there was a level
of competitiveness. I watched him play at West Virginia and
then what we saw last night, there is a level
of competitiveness and tenacity on top of just how good
he is guarding the basketball that they haven't had from
an individual player in quite a while, that they badly
could have used last season, and we saw a little

(01:01:54):
bit of that last night.

Speaker 10 (01:01:56):
So there's no no word on Harris yet.

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
No, it was interesting he was holding it. Then he
got fouled on the play where he hurt his wrist.
He shot a free throw and it was an ugly
looking free throw. He then came out of the game,
went to the locker room, came back and sat on
the bench, went back into the locker room. And the
only thing that Wes would really say is, man, I

(01:02:19):
really hope he's okay, because I think he realizes how
important he could be to the team. And then from
my perspective, you just go, okay. You had an injury
during the preseason with Jalen Haynes, and then an injury
in the first game of the season. If that ends
up being the sort of thing that lasts a while,
it's like, you know, we're a game of the year
and you're already down two guys. That's not a good omen.

Speaker 10 (01:02:39):
Hey, well, I'll tell you one thing. The big men
they have coming off the bench, McKinley and the guy
from France last year, they both have.

Speaker 6 (01:02:49):
Been McKinley's case.

Speaker 10 (01:02:50):
I didn't know if he had improved, but he's a
good ballplayer, I think, and the other kid has improved
a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:02:56):
Yeah, Tyler McKinley's first college basketball game last night. Local
guy who got hurt didn't play last year. By the
end of the season, he was doing full scale workouts.
Looked like he knew where to be right, you know,
look like and frankly, that's what you're looking for from
a young big who's going to come off the bench, Right,
Does he look like he knows where to be? And

(01:03:18):
he did. I thought, by and large, that was a
good first game. I've watched a lot of season openers
where it looks disjointed, and that's you know, during the
era where teams brought back all their players pretty much
all new guys except for two, and it didn't look disjointed.
Last night did not look bad.

Speaker 10 (01:03:37):
Hey Moe, thanks again for your uh for the ability to.

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
Speak with you. I appreciate it. Bobb. It's always a
pleasure to hear from you. Thanks so much. Four thirty,
ESPN fifteen thirty U see wins last night. The Bearcats
played Georgia's State on Friday, Xavier. It was a struggle.
Richard Patino after the game said he you know, he
wants blowouts. He also talked with us last week about

(01:04:01):
his how aware he was of the fact that you
couldn't take a victory over Marist For granted, I think
it's gonna be a tough year on Victory Parkway. And
I'm not the first or only person to say that.
Rick Brooring was with us last week and it just
it's year one, which is tough. It's it's a roster

(01:04:23):
that I look at it and I'm not sure who
the best players are supposed to be. They got out
of there with a win last night. Lemoyne coming up
on Thursday. We will see and like I'll say that,
and I'm the UC guy, so to be thrown back
in my face as we get closer to the Skyline
Chili Crosstown shootout. But the consensus is it's going to

(01:04:44):
be a tough year for Xavier basketball. I'm not sure
anything last night, anything was done last night to kind
of dissuade anybody from going along with the consensus. Twenty
nine from five o'clock, I want Duke Tobin to do
with a what a former boss of mine once did.
I'll explain next on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
You've been listening to football in the NATI on ESPN
fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals. Cincinnati's
ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic from the.

Speaker 7 (01:05:21):
a care plan fast meet with a specialist in two days.
Call five one three five eighty five UCCC northbound seventy
one seventy five. The entrance ramp from US forty two
in Florence is shut down due to an accident. Police

(01:05:42):
have also got the right lane blocked off on seventy
one seventy five and on Corby Street. An accident at
Beachmont Avenue on at Eazelic with traffic.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
This report is.

Speaker 7 (01:05:53):
Cincinnati's sports station ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
Headline a service of Kelsey Chevro Leigh home of lifetime
powertrain protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family to
yours for life, kelseyshev dot com. Logan Wilson traded by
the Bengals to the Dallas Cowboys. That means there's only
one Logan Wilson remaining playing football in Cincinnati. He plays

(01:06:19):
for the Bearcats. Logan Zach Taylor says, quote, I appreciate
everything he's done as a player and as a person
during his time in Cincinnati. He has been a central
part of our defense over the past six years and
He'll be remembered as a leader in our locker room.
I wish him the best moving forward. Good luck to
Logan Wilson in Dallas. Cincinnati gets a seventh round draft

(01:06:42):
choice in next year's draft. The Colts have acquired former
UC star Sauce Gardner from the New York Jets in
exchange for a couple of first round picks. New York
also sending Quinn Williams to Dallas. What else do we have?
College basketball? Tonight? Kentucky battles at Nickel State, tip off

(01:07:02):
at seven pm. Pregame coverage at five thirty on ESPN
fifteen thirty. Year or two of the Mark Pope era underway.
The Wildcats lost their second exhibition game to Georgetown last week,
twenty away from five o'clock. I got folks waiting on hold.
Should we talk to those folks or should I give
another Innan Duke Tobin take. I teased the Duke Tobin take,

(01:07:25):
but instead I'll talk with Matt. Matt, you're on ESPN
fifteen thirty. Matt, good afternoon.

Speaker 9 (01:07:30):
How are you kid yourself?

Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
Mam? I've never been better? What's going on? So?

Speaker 6 (01:07:37):
I have a question for you?

Speaker 11 (01:07:39):
As a big Cincinnati fan and a lifelong follower. What
job do you think is harder to do or would
be harder being a Reds GM and Nick Krawl and.

Speaker 12 (01:07:54):
Always having his hands tied financially as he said today
the payroll will be the same next year as it
was this year, Or a guy like Duke Tobin, where
we want to get better but we refuse to get better.

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
Which job do I think is more difficult? I think
the job of baseball general manager is inherently more difficult
than football general manager for the simple reason that if
you're a football general manager, you're you're drafting guys that
I think it's a little bit easier to tell whether
or not. Now again, take this with a grain of salt,
because Duke Tobin recently has failed, but you're drafting guys

(01:08:32):
for them to help you right now. Baseball general managers,
you know, players come through minor league systems faster than
ever before, but you're still really relying on in many
respects on whether an eighteen or nineteen year old kid
is going to end up being a good mature adult
at twenty five. Does that make sense? So I just think,

(01:08:53):
like inherently, I think inherently that job is more difficult
now Duke Tobin has Joe Burrow to build around, and
part of what makes like all the criticism aimed at him,
I think very very valid, is like, Dude, the most
significant thing in sports you have solved. I was talking
before the game on Sunday with a Chicago Bears fan

(01:09:15):
cause I was we were doing the show from the
Holy Ground. We were talking about Caleb Williams, and I'm like,
in my adult life, you've never had like a legit
franchise quarterback. Jay Cutler filled that role for a while
and they went to a super Bowl with Rex Grossman.
But from the time that Jim McMahon got done in
Chicago to now, it's been a revolving door of okay quarterbacks,

(01:09:37):
pretty good quarterbacks, quarterbacks you thought were maybe gonna be
the guy. There's no uncertainty here. Duke Tobin has that, dude,
And so the hardest thing to get, the hardest mystery
to solve, is solved for Duke Tobin. And so I
don't know that such a thing exists in baseball. I
don't know that Nick Krawl has that.

Speaker 6 (01:09:56):
So I.

Speaker 3 (01:09:59):
Think Nick's John job is a little bit more difficult
because of the inherent just nature of the job. There
are financial inequities that are in place that you don't
necessarily have to the same degree in the NFL. And
if you have quarterbacks soft as an NFL GM, then
I think half the job is done for you. I
don't think such a thing applies to Nick or any
of his fellow baseball gms.

Speaker 12 (01:10:19):
So as in Duke Jovin's position, why not get rid
of Trey Hendrickson for some draft picks. Instead, you're going
to not pay him next year because you're unlikely to
franchise tag M or could they franchise tag.

Speaker 3 (01:10:34):
Am, They could franchise tag them. I don't know at
this stage why you would. I think they set an
asking price that nobody wanted to meet. Like, I don't
know if this was we're not trading trade no matter what,
although if we found out that that came from ownership,
it would be unsurprising. I think they set the asking

(01:10:54):
price too high. I do think it's interesting that we
saw first round picks get moved today Indy cent two
to New York. I think there would have been teams
they were engaging with teams. I mean, I haven't talked
to anybody who has who has said that the Bengals
just wouldn't talk to teams about Trey Hendrickson. I think
they've been talking with teams about Trey Hendrickson for a while,

(01:11:15):
but there's been an unwillingness to come down from their
asking price. I think you or I would have said, Okay,
we're not getting a one for a guy who's gonna
play half a season and has spent time not playing
because of a hip injury. I would have taken almost
anything for Trey Hendrickson. Duke Tobin and perhaps the people
that he works for obviously do not agree.

Speaker 12 (01:11:36):
First round pick outside of Joe and Jamar that have
actually been worth a thing. I mean I would have
been happy with a couple of twos or threes.

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
Yeah, I went draft capital. I'd have taken Day three
picks for him now, I think, and Paul was talking
about this with us before. The Bengals have always shown
an unwillingness. Like in twenty nineteen, they were at the
trade deadline. They had Andy Dalton, who clearly was not
going to be the quarterback moving forward. They had already

(01:12:06):
benched him. They had aj Green, who could play but
really was refusing to. They still had Geno Atkins, they
still had Carlos dung Laft, They had a bunch of
players that were not going to be a part of
the team. By the next time the Bengals were good
and at zho to eight, they didn't trade any of them.
So to me, it's unsurprising that at three and six
the lens they view this through says, we still have

(01:12:28):
a shot, and as long as we have a shot,
we're not trading players that we think can help us win.
I think you and I would say, dude, watch the team.
They can't stop anybody. The defense is maybe the worst ever.
Your schedule is incredibly tough. Over the next couple of weeks,
you're gonna have to finish six and two just to
get to nine wins, and that certainly doesn't seem possible.
But the Bengals historically, much to my frustration and I'm

(01:12:51):
sure yours, have never viewed things that way. The Duke
Tobin has said famously it's not my job to help
other teams, and while there's certainly some truth to that,
I do think it's your job to be realistic and
get a jumpstart on a future that has to be
brighter than your present, which you're not winning right now.
Why not get a jumpstart on what's next by accumulating

(01:13:12):
as much as much draft capital as possible.

Speaker 12 (01:13:17):
You know, my twelve year old and me watched the game,
and he was so excited the other day when they
hit forty two. I looked right dead in his eyes,
and I said, I looked at Joe Space when they
showed him on the sidelines that he's telling you forty
two is not enough.

Speaker 3 (01:13:31):
Uh huh.

Speaker 12 (01:13:32):
And I said, he's looking at him, he goes, forty
two is not enough, And I'm telling you forty two
isn't enough. And I said, when when do you look
at somebody and say, how is forty two not enough?

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
Uh huh? A week after?

Speaker 12 (01:13:48):
Who does that fall more on ownership or does that
fall on the leadership of Duke Cobin and Dat Taylor.
I mean, I don't know whose hands are more to
blame here, and I think everybody's kind of had all that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:02):
Yeah, And so you know, to me, I'm less interested
in blame than I am. What's next. Ownership's not gonna
change right to not selling the team. They're probably not
gonna suddenly shift their their philosophies. Although they have done
some things in recent years that historically don't associate them
with Ownership's not gonna change. Duke Tobin is the person

(01:14:22):
in charge of the roster. Duke Duke Tobin is the
person in charge of player acquisition, trades, the draft. There
are people who work underneath him, and you could certainly
make the argument that Duke would be better equipped if
he had more people working for him, But at the
end of the day, he is in charge of the roster.
I'd come back to the offseason. They had a terrible
defense last year, a defense that cost them four games

(01:14:45):
where they scored thirty points and still lost, and they
didn't do enough to it. They haven't drafted players who
can make an immediate impact. They were not that active
in free agency. They they kept a lot of players
who I think we looked at last season and said,
not sure if I can count on that guy. They

(01:15:07):
didn't add a safety, that position stunk last year. They
didn't add a corner that position wasn't very good last year.
And Duke Tobin, you talked about the draft. If you
look at this decade, he's it's not like they haven't
drafted any good players. Te Higgins is a good player,
Jamar Chase is a good player. Evan McPherson's a good player,
Chase Brown's a good player. None of those dudes played defense.

(01:15:28):
It's been a whole bunch of Miles Murphy's and Cam
Taylor Britz and Joseph Osie and Dax Hills. Like we're
still talking about guys they drafted years ago waiting to
see what they could do. So now moving forward, Okay, Duke,
we're gonna have to lean heavy into the draft to
fix the defense. He hasn't been able to do that yet.
Why should I count on him to do it moving forward?

Speaker 12 (01:15:51):
Is he would be the classic person that I would
say is a definition of insanity doing the thing thing
over and over and hoping and get any the same results.

Speaker 3 (01:16:03):
Yeah, and look I will Duke Tobin was the Executive
of the Year a number of years ago and deserved
it because he built that defense that in twenty twenty
one got the team to the Super Bowl. But how
he built that defense was throw money at it.

Speaker 6 (01:16:17):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:16:17):
People said they overpaid for DJ Reider, and my take
on it was they had to. They had to overpay
to get good players. To play here, and Duke was
able to throw money and give Chadobie Woozier and Von
Bell and Mike Hilton and Trey Hendrickson greatest free agent
acquisition ever. Duke was responsible for that. If this coming
offseason he said, you know what, they're gonna be able

(01:16:38):
to just throw money at the defense, I'd say go
ahead and let him do it. But they can't. Now,
Joe Burrow's not on a rookie contract five years ago.
He was. Jamar Chase is not under a rookie contract
five years ago. He was same with t Higgins. So
the way they have to build the defense moving forward
is the same way that Duke Tobin has tried to
build the defense over the last couple of years and

(01:16:59):
has failed. Why would I give somebody repeated opportunities to
do something that they have proven they're not good at.

Speaker 12 (01:17:07):
So in a fantasy world, one more thing before I
get off, I'm sure you gotta get going. In a
fantasy world. Let's say the Bengals do the right thing.
That is, in a fantasy world, getting rid of Duke
Tobin and getting rid of Zach Taylor.

Speaker 11 (01:17:23):
Who would you.

Speaker 12 (01:17:24):
Look at as a replacement for the two. Do you
look outside the organization for both? Do you look at
former players?

Speaker 4 (01:17:34):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:17:35):
What I want to do is I want to mine
the most well run and consistent franchises in the sport
and interview people who work for them. Like the Baltimore
Ravens are always good. They always have good rosters. Now
they have years where they're not very good, but the
cycle doesn't seem to trap them in these long stretches

(01:17:56):
where they're awful. The Kansas City Chiefs. The Kansas City
Chiefs didn't suddenly get good when Patrick Mahomes took the field.
They were a playoff team every single year starting in
two thousand and thirteen when Andy Reid became the head coach.
What about that franchise has allowed them to fix defficiencies,
stay relevant, win championships. What about what they're doing in

(01:18:18):
Detroit where two teams have hired coaches from that organization,
they seem to have a terrific roster. I would look,
and it's not guaranteed to work, right because for years
people try to hire folks who are with the Patriots
and hey, we're going to be like New England. But
to me, in any if you're ever hiring right, and
you're looking for people to I don't know, lift your

(01:18:40):
franchise or lift your company to higher heights. I'm looking
for folks who are getting it done or helping get
it done in elsewhere for you know, places that are
what I want my company or my organization to be.

Speaker 12 (01:18:55):
And I think you've hit the nail on the head
when it comes to that. You need a GM and
a co coach that are on the same page. And
I don't think that that is the case in Cincinnati.

Speaker 3 (01:19:07):
It doesn't feel like it. I think what would be fascinating,
and Matt, thank you very much for the phone call.
I think what would be what would thank you? I
think what would have been really interesting would be if
if you could somehow get Zach Taylor to speak truthfully
about how about how he has felt about a number
of decisions the Bengals have made in relation to the roster.

(01:19:28):
I also, quite frankly, think it would be fascinating to
see what this past offseason would have looked like had
they stuck to their original plan as it relates to
t Higgins. But yes, and I think one of the
more interesting things, like if you want to remove Duke Tobin,
which I'm certainly not opposed to. The new guy is

(01:19:48):
probably gonna want some say into who is head coaches.
You know, remember when Zach Taylor got hired, the Bengals
made a big deal about how this was Duke Tobin's call. Now,
I do not believe for a second it was one
one hundred percent Duke Tobin's call. But if you're going
to hire somebody to be Duke Tobin two point zero,
that person, I'm sure is going to want to hire

(01:20:10):
his or her own head coach. Seve it away from
five o'clock. We're at Oakley Green's short show today done
at five thirty. UK basketball bumping us out of the
way our guy Sean Sayat's Tats and Scheme podcast. I
do want to spend a few more minutes on Duke
Tobin and why I wish he was like a former
boss of mine. Coming up on ESPN fifteen.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
Thirty Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

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Speaker 3 (01:21:17):
He said, what's up. This is ESPs fifteen thirty. I'm
a Lewis. Thank you for listening. Much appreciated. We are
broadcasting from Oakley Greens. We are done thoroughly today. UK
basketball is coming up in twenty five minutes as the
Wildcats take on Nichols. There's a dog marking. We've got
folks signing up for the SIMS Furniture Ultimate Fan Cave giveaway,

(01:21:39):
which you could sign up for. You can you can
come see us at any one of our live broadcasts,
which those are better than debt broadcasts. You could sign
up here in Oakley Greens. We're here every single Tuesday.
We love Oakley Greens, which we're gonna talk about here
in just a second. Or you can go to any
one of the five Sims furniture stores in Greater Cincinnati

(01:22:00):
and win a power recliner, a fifty five inch TV,
a TV console with an electric fireplace and area, rug
and end table with built in speakers. Folks are signing up.
It's insane, So get out here to Oakley Greens. We'll
here for another twenty five minutes. It's also the bud
Light five o'clock Happy Hour. Thanks to our friends at
bud Light, I've got an ice cold Bengals branded bud

(01:22:21):
Light can enjoy a cold one for the duration of
the show. And Oakley Greens obviously is awesome. They are
putting up a beer Keg Christmas tree, which is pretty
damn awesome and now I want one of those in
my house. Great for holiday parties, you know you're starting

(01:22:41):
to think about holiday parties. You can rent a cabana,
you can hang out. We're in the outdoor area, but
it's heated, so it feels great. Tons of TVs. You
can watch FC Cincinnati this weekend. You can watch good
NFL teams this weekend because the Bengals aren't playing. Just
have a blast here at Oakley Greens. By the way,
you get food here at Oakley Green, we never talk
about food. Sliders at Oakley Greens are top notch. So

(01:23:03):
come on out. We don't have a ton of time.
Sean say Hat Statson Scheme Podcast and the Stats and
Schemes newsletter is gonna join us from Sumer Sports in
just a few minutes. We'll grab another phone call or
two here in just a second. Bengals have traded Logan
Wilson to the Cowboys. They did not trade anybody else.
This is the bye week. There's no game this week,

(01:23:25):
and many will go, well, you know, this is a
good opportunity for Duke Tobin to speak. And I don't
know that Duke Tobin is gonna say anything that makes
any one of us feel better. I don't know that
he could offer an explanation that is legitimately gonna make
any one of us feel like, you know what, things
are fine, We're okay here, Trust Duke. Let him pick

(01:23:48):
the players next year. I don't think that's gonna happen.
But if I were him and Duke Tobin is made
available at the combine, I know some of the folks
who cover the team have have done one on ones
with him at the Senior Bowl. I think he's made
available during that mock turtle soup thing they do every July.

(01:24:11):
And then that's like it. And you know, for the
most part, I have no issue with that doesn't matter
to me. It's not like Duke Tobin when he talks
is some like magical content machine. But on a human level,
if I was Duke Tobin, I would watch my head
coach have to answer questions about the team that I

(01:24:33):
put together. Three times a week during the season. Zach
Taylor has to talk after the game on Sunday, it's
got to talk again on Monday. He's got to talk
again on Wednesday. He's got to answer questions, and he's
gotta answer questions that he should have to answer, you know,
his own coaching and play calling and personnel decisions during
the game and all that sort of stuff. An NFL

(01:24:54):
head coach is essentially the spokesperson for a particular franchise.
If I Duke Tobin, I go, you know what, this
dude every week has to answer questions for a roster
that I put together, for a roster that is underperforming.
And then you know, to a lesser degree, Al Golden's
made available and say what you want about Al, but
he has made available, and Al is complicit. He's the

(01:25:15):
defensive coordinator. It's arguably the worst defense of all time,
and so you know, should he be held accountable? Of
course he should. And I'm watching players. I'm watching Jamar
Chase and Chase Brown have to answer questions about a
defense that I put together. If I was Duke Tobin,
I go, you know what, nobody else should have to
answer for this team that I put together, at least

(01:25:36):
for this defense that I put together. So you know
what I'm gonna do. It's the bye week here, I
am ask away, and at least for a day, I'm
the guy having to answer questions about the defense that
I put together years ago. And I'm not gonna dive
into the deep particulars of this. Years ago, at the

(01:25:58):
radio station, a popular air personality was taken off the air, and,
as is usually the case when that happens, no executive
has to go in front of a microphone. Right, it's
usually us, like the other on air personalities, who have

(01:26:18):
to explain why this person's no longer there. And then
hear from angry listeners. I've had to do it, many
of us have. It's kind of part of the gig.
But this one particular time, this is many many years ago,
popular on air personality was let go and in the
vacated seat that day, the boss took over and did

(01:26:42):
the show that day and answered questions from angry listeners
and then you know, trying to conduct a normal show,
but at least didn't make anybody else answer questions for
something that they weren't responsible for. And I gained a
whole different level love respect for this guy. I'm like,
you know what, that's cool. I don't know if it

(01:27:03):
was the greatest radio show ever, but it's like, all right,
this decision was made, the people you're putting on the
air are not responsible for it. Why should they have
to answer to it? And I thought that was cool
as hell, and I gained a level of respect for
him doing something that wasn't necessary. He wasn't told he
had to do it, wasn't really in his job description.

(01:27:24):
I would think it would be cool as hell if
Duke Tobin would do something similar. Might not make me
think that he should be the guy moving forward, but
you know, what all right? I built this roster. This
roster is underperforming the part of the roster that I
was supposed to spend the off season fixing. Not only
have I not fixed it, it's worse. This isn't on

(01:27:45):
my coach, This isn't on my new defensive coordinator. It's
on the players. And the players are in the locker
room with reporters coming in multiple times a week. You
know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna walk down to
that interview room, make it known Thursday at one o'clock,
ask away, and at least for a day, the arrow

(01:28:06):
is pointed at me, and the tough questions are pointed
at me, And then maybe I'm not really gonna say anything,
but there's a level of accountability there where I'm answering
questions about something I am responsible for, not somebody else.
Do I expect Duke Tobin to do that?

Speaker 7 (01:28:23):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:28:23):
Is there a world where Duke Tobin is told he's
not allowed to do that? I suppose. Do I think
it would be respectable of him to do that? Absolutely?
Twelve minutes after five o'clock, Sean said, is gonna join
us in just a few minutes. I cannot believe that
Mike from LA hasn't been on hold since Saturday night,

(01:28:44):
still basking in the glory, still perhaps drunk, after celebrating
the Dodgers winning a second consecutive World Series in a
remarkable classic Game seven, Mike, congratulations, how are you?

Speaker 6 (01:28:58):
Yeah? It was thanks mom. It was a tree for
everyone to enjoy this World series. You had the first
highest payroll versus the fourth highest payroll, and it played
out to be a It's the best one I can
remember a moment at least the last twenty years. Come out.

Speaker 3 (01:29:17):
You know, here's one of the reasons that I love sports.
So all I was rooting for was a good series, right.
I wanted a good world so we got a really
good world series. Game three was a classic, Game six
was interesting. Game seven is one of the all time best.
But one of the reasons why I love sports, right
is when you think of the Dodgers, it's Otani, Mookie Bets,

(01:29:42):
Yoshi Yamamoto, Freddie Freeman, all of these stars. Right, But
who won it?

Speaker 6 (01:29:47):
Tell them?

Speaker 10 (01:29:48):
Mo?

Speaker 3 (01:29:48):
Who won it?

Speaker 6 (01:29:49):
The guys that aren't making billions, tell them, MO, tell them.

Speaker 3 (01:29:53):
Miguel Rojas, a thirty six year old second baseman hits
the game tying home run in the ninth inning and
then makes the play where if I'm a Blue Jays fan,
I'm not going to sleep all winter thinking about the
bang bang play to play now. Will Smith is a
good player hit the game winning home run. But one
of the reasons I love sports, and I think this
presents itself in baseball more than the others, is the

(01:30:15):
unlikely hero right where the Dodgers don't win the World
Series if mcguel Rojas doesn't hit a home run of
the ninth inning and so yes, it's big pay roll
and all that go ahead.

Speaker 6 (01:30:27):
Andy jumps over the top of Kek to pick that
ball off to a left field fence. Unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (01:30:34):
And I thought Dave Roberts big.

Speaker 6 (01:30:37):
Money guys for the Dodgers, So quit talking about that
all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:30:41):
Yeah, and I thought, I thought Dave Roberts managed a
great game seven. His gut told him to use Miguel Rojas.
He puts paw Hez in the game in the middle
of the inning to have him go and make that catch.
He knew exactly when to bring in Yamamoto new to
stay with him like it was an extraordinarily entertaining World Series.

(01:31:02):
I could understand the agony Toronto fans are dealing with.
You have a three to nothing lead, you had the
wedge ball in the ninth inning of Game six, you
had all those opportunities to win Game three. Your team
bounces back, there's a bang bang play to play. There's
a silly bunt that your manager called that never should
have happened. I mean it was I we've all experienced

(01:31:23):
our team losing. That is a level of losing the
Toronto fans are dealing with right now that I hope
I never again have to relate to. But the Dodgers,
with the story, Game seven was awesome. I'm happy for you.

Speaker 6 (01:31:36):
I feel sorry for the Toronto fans.

Speaker 3 (01:31:38):
I really truly do.

Speaker 6 (01:31:39):
Even the players. I feel real sorry for them, guys,
There's no question about it. But I just wanted the
nonsense to be put to bed because Snookie did nothing.
I mean, so you can pay guys different guys a
lot of money. That doesn't mean you're going to perform.
It doesn't mean.

Speaker 10 (01:31:57):
It at all.

Speaker 6 (01:31:58):
So just click quick picking up on my guys, because
oh they got to the highest payroll, not by much.
If you look at the Phillies and the Yankees and
the Mets right and even Toronto. So anyway, thanks for
recognizing that. Wonderful women. I wanted to talk about football,
but you don't have time.

Speaker 3 (01:32:15):
I got like one minute, go ahead.

Speaker 6 (01:32:18):
I think the search for players should be secondary to
the search for a general manager for the Bengals. Someone
of the Roseman ilk, someone of the less snead ilk
from the Rams, someone of the todd light ilk from
the from the Bucks that you know are going to
perform well in the third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh rounds

(01:32:42):
in his draft.

Speaker 3 (01:32:44):
Couldn't agree more your thought? Yes, no, I could not
agree more. They need new players. I don't know that
anybody can trust Duke Tobin to identify who those new
players are. And all you have to do is look
at what you just talked about. I mean, the most
glaring example for me is you have two third round
picks in twenty twenty four that have done literally nothing

(01:33:06):
for you this year, that never play, that never dress.
I don't know how if you're if you run a
football team and you have a general manager who did that,
who's responsible for that? On top of all of these
other draft whiffs. I don't know how he could sit
in front of you and in a way that saves
his job explain that I don't get it. So I

(01:33:28):
couldn't agree more, Mike, you need somebody as long as
they have the money thrown at the players who are
earning the dough. The way they try to build this
defense is going to be the same way they've tried
to build the defense, the same way that Duke Tobin
has had a crack at it and has failed. When
somebody has failed repeatedly as something, do you give them
unlimited cracks at it? For me? And I think for

(01:33:50):
you might answer is.

Speaker 6 (01:33:51):
No, Well, I don't even know what you would start
to do in a search for a general incredible general manager,
do you.

Speaker 3 (01:34:01):
Well? It's interesting. I mean I would, I would mind
the the better run franchises in the NFL. I would
certainly talk to Troy Brown, who has worked in the
in the front office now for a while here. But
I think it's what makes it fascinating. I asked Danner
this in the first hour. We have no idea what
a de facto general manager search would look for. Mike,

(01:34:22):
I got a run awesome to hear from Yashan sayed
stats and Scheme Newsletter.

Speaker 2 (01:34:26):
Next Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic from.

Speaker 7 (01:34:32):
The UC Health Traffic Center. The Lung Cancer Rapid Access
Program at the UC Cancer Center is built to give
you a care plan fast meet with a specialist. In
two day's call five one three, five eighty five UCCC
northbound seventy one seventy five. The entrance ramp from US
forty two and Florence closed off due to an accident.

(01:34:53):
Also got a crash on way Cross Road at Hanover
Road and one more accident on Beachmont Avenue at five
Mile Road that he sound like with traffic.

Speaker 2 (01:35:03):
This report is ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:35:07):
You know our one of our most loyal listeners is
a woman by the name of Mary from Mount Washington.
I think she's top candidate. If the Bengals removed to Tobin,
I would interview her first. Mary from Mount Washington A
lot of work. Mary, and I have your hands full.
We're done in six minutes because we have UK basketball.

(01:35:27):
So let's get to our guest. Our guy, Sean Saya,
the Stats and Schemes newsletter Summer Sports dot Com, joins
us every single Tuesday to ride the Hamster Wheel that
is talking about the Bengals defense and schemes and how
they fix it and Sean, it's good to have you
as always. How are you. Oh, it's great.

Speaker 14 (01:35:46):
Every week, you know, it feels like the Bengals come
up with something new. It's not always positive, but yeah,
I do want to start with saying I like watching
DJ Turner play football, so I want to make sure
I said something positive on the radio by this time.

Speaker 3 (01:36:00):
You know what, But put DJ Turner on film for me.
Tell me what you like about him.

Speaker 10 (01:36:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (01:36:05):
I think he's a he's a good corner. He's competitive
at the catch point.

Speaker 14 (01:36:08):
I think you can put him in multiple schemes, whether
you're playing that deeper cover three, while you're playing that
kind of in the cornerback space sort of cover.

Speaker 13 (01:36:16):
Two type look and look. He's improved, I think in
his years in the league so far. So it's nice
to see. You know, you can take.

Speaker 14 (01:36:23):
Something positive away when I look at all the grades,
and then when I go at the film, it's like,
all right, well, you can remember early in the game
against the Bears, you have that nice pass deflection on
the throat to Caleb Williams's left, So look at us
just feeling good and fine on this Tuesday.

Speaker 3 (01:36:37):
Right. Yeah, so there's a building block. There's a building block.
The problem is it's it's building blocks singular and not plural.
They traded Logan Wilson, they didn't trade anybody else. We're
not surprised because this is sort of how the Bengals
do things. But put a GM head on reasonably, what
would you have given the Bengals for Trey Hendrickson.

Speaker 13 (01:36:57):
Well, it's probably good. It's gonna be a shorter thing.

Speaker 14 (01:37:00):
I think you you you start the call at a three. Uh,
and then the obviously the Bengals say absolutely not that.

Speaker 13 (01:37:07):
Give me a one. No, I would I would get
maybe a two. You could talk me into throwing a
second round pick.

Speaker 3 (01:37:13):
You're away.

Speaker 13 (01:37:13):
But I have to assume there.

Speaker 14 (01:37:15):
Were conversations about it. I think just giving them the
benefit of the doubt there. But yeah, it did feel like,
all right, well, you're at a point in your season
where I don't ever want to be like, oh, you know,
you're tanking the season, it's all over. But you have
a resource that you can get a bunch of draft
capital for. You know, what kind of move can you make?
So you look at the Jalen Phillips trade, for example

(01:37:36):
with the Eagles, where that pulls a third round pick,
and I think that's like the absolute worst that you
do in that situation. I think you should look at
Hendrickson as a full step of from Philip. So you know,
I had to feel like at least a second round pick.
I think a first round pick would have been unreasonable,
even though obviously that would have loved for that to
happen for the Bengals.

Speaker 3 (01:37:53):
You could be honest on this show, Sean, It's it's over.
You could you could say it here, We're not gonna
give it's it's three and six. They couldn't stop you
and ten of your buddies. It's over.

Speaker 14 (01:38:04):
It's like, it's funny because you look at it, and
when I watch the defensive film, it's like, all right, well,
I could criticize and be like, all right, well this
scheme is kind of simple.

Speaker 3 (01:38:11):
Overall.

Speaker 13 (01:38:13):
Damn football is the game of blocking and tackling. It
really really is.

Speaker 14 (01:38:16):
That is what it is, and it is a game
where the Bengals have not been great at tackling. I
think they missed like fifteen tackles and then there was
like over one hundred yards that the Bears were able
to have after those mistackles. So drop whatever you want
on a whiteboard, Mel If you're not able to tackle
in the NFL, it's unfortunately going to be a pretty
long day.

Speaker 3 (01:38:34):
Exactly like I've talked about this this week. The problem
is there's no nuance to it, right, Like I'd love
to explore things that Al Golden can do with his
personnel that can amplify the pass rush or help them
in coverage right, or bring out some area of their
defense make them better against the run. They're bad at
everything right, and they're bad at the basics. They're bad

(01:38:57):
at tackling, and so when they're there's only one building
block and every unit has deficiencies, and they're not good
at anything and they can't master the basics like bringing
the ball carrier to the ground. I bring you on
to talk schemes, I it's I don't know. I don't
know where you start. And that's that to me is
the frust I like talking about strategies and personnel and

(01:39:19):
the nuance of football. There is no nuance to this.

Speaker 14 (01:39:23):
Yeah no, But other than that, other than all of them,
I look forward to say, you know, like for the
rest of the season, like, well, what are your building blocks?

Speaker 13 (01:39:32):
Like Turner? I feel good about where Turner is.

Speaker 14 (01:39:35):
Now let's look at the younger guys, like what are
you getting from Osai, from Stuart, from Hill? Just as
you go through the rest of the way, Like, you know,
you have to decide are your young linebackers? But these
the guys you're gonna go forward with? Or is it
you know next year we're gonna kind of be in
the spot again because you know, the clock's ticking a
little bit on this whole entire organization.

Speaker 13 (01:39:55):
It feels like I hate the idea that I got.

Speaker 14 (01:39:57):
To sit and watch that awesome Joe Burrow Super Bowl
on and say, this is awesome.

Speaker 13 (01:40:02):
This is a wildcard.

Speaker 14 (01:40:03):
I think it was a wildcard team right that made
that Like are they going to be able to get back?
And if the answer is no, that I mean it's
gonna be heartbreaking, Like it really is when you consider
all the talent on this team obviously, Now do I
think this is a situation where hey, go be the
Jets and literally sell every single thing you have and
just stop pile picks it and really run this kind
of experiment to the end. No, it's obviously not like that, right,
like there is light at the end of the tunnel.

(01:40:23):
But I'm sure you know everyone is getting a little
bit tired of saying, oh, well next year, oh well
next time. Oh if this guy stays healthy, maybe things
will be a little bit different.

Speaker 3 (01:40:32):
Yeah, music says the clock is ticking on us, Sean.
I'll send folks to the Stats and Scheme newsletters. Subscribe
at suomer sports dot com sumer and maybe sumer Brain
has a solution to what ails this franchise. I don't know.
It's awesome to have you as always. I'm sorry to
cut our time short, but well, well I'll have something
to complain about next there's no game. Maybe we'll talk

(01:40:52):
about good teams since good teams played this weekend.

Speaker 13 (01:40:55):
That would be fun appreciated bull talk soon.

Speaker 3 (01:40:57):
All right, that's our guy, Sean say its Stats and
Schemes newsletter. Thanks to our friends at Oakley Greens for
having us. Thanks to Drew West Heidi for producing on site.
Taron Blandback and Kenwood. UK basketball is next on ESPN
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