December 17, 2024 • 34 mins
Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us to discuss the Cincinnati Bengals, Sunday's win over the Titans, Joe Burrow yelling at his coach, Sam Hubbard's future, Chase Brown, and playoff possibilities.
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Podcasts of The Mo Egger Radio Show are a service of Longnecks Sports Grill.
Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
Listen Live: ESPN1530.com/listen
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Follow on X: @MoEgger
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's the Battle of Ohio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
You touchdown pass number five for Joel Burrow.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Joe Burrow and his Big bad Bengals White for their
playoff lives like May line up against the Brownstar in October,
the Orange and Black beat the Brown. Yes, Gongo, you'll
May triumphant victory again and keep their postseason Greens alive.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Up and nail, I am Bam fame when.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
You get the call from Dangerous Dan ord A Mighty
Dave Black. Coverage begins Sunday morning at nine on ESPN
fifteen thirty, the official home of the Bengals.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
I'll tell you what. I'm ready now after hearing that,
I am ready now for this massive Battle of Ohio
playoff boats on the line Bangles and Browns on Sunday.
Holy crap, are you kidding me? Sign me the hell up.
First things first, we are broadcasting on Mulegger at Buffalo
Wild Wings in Milford this afternoon. If you want to
(00:57):
win tickets to that game Bengal and Browns on Sunday,
our friends at bud Light have given us a pair,
so sign up. You might win. You can't win if
you're not here. We've also got a couple of Bengals.
Nike golf hoodies were given away. We've got to buy one,
get one half off traditional Wings. We've got the six
for nineteen ninety nine menu, which you cannot beat. We've
(01:19):
got Buffalo Wild Wings gift cards where if you buy
twenty five dollars worth you get a five dollars bonus.
We're loaded today here at beat ups in Milford right
off I two seventy five. So when you're getting off
for it, come on out and see us. Last time
we were here we had a great crowd, so hopefully
we can double that up. Perhaps Paul Tanner Junior's here.
(01:39):
What's up covering the Bengals and they're pushed toward the postseason.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
The push for the adles.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
You know what, I love it, hold on to hope.
What else you're doing right? It rights? It beats talking
about I don't know the future of Muma Jong Meta
and and maybe the spandid role of Josh Newton or whatever.
Like I mean, let's let's let's talk at Devin Cochrane.
(02:06):
What a what a performance off the off the practice
squad from Devon. Yes, yes, it beats that. We can
talk about percentage points. Let's go yes, let's go, right,
we can.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
We can go into different playoff predicting models. And do
we need to. I don't know if we need to.
I don't know if we need to, but but we can,
we can.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Paul covers the Bengals for The Athletic dot Com and
the Growl of podcast latest episode, out Balls Don't Lie.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah, very good?
Speaker 4 (02:37):
All right? So, uh on your podcast this morning, I
joined you to talk about Joe Burrows.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
What are we calling it? Outburst explosion? What what are
we calling venting? Okay, venting session? Joe Burrows venting session. Yes, Okay,
That's what I'm here for.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Yeah, And so I want folks to listen to or
watch that conversation because I thought it was at least
the part that I was able to participate it, I
thought it was good. I just want to ask you this,
how big of a deal?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Is this minimal? I don't think it's some huge thing.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
We were talking to dam Pitcher about this yesterday, and
I was kind of specifically asking him because really, nobody
has sat right next to Joe Burrow more in his
professional career than Dan Pitcher and sat next to him
for all those years a quarterback coach, And you said,
how that that attitude, that feeling, you know, that out
kind of of eventing outburst whatever. How rare is that?
(03:40):
And he said, you know what, it happens a lot
more than people think.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
So I said, he's.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Gotten into it multiple times with Joe over the years.
He said, that's just part of it. When you have
somebody who is and he called him pretty much the
most competitive athletes he's ever been around. That when that
is the feeling of the moment, that's the type of
stuff that happens. It happens more than you would think,
or certainly more that gets reported on. But you know what,
(04:05):
when a season's going like this and you've had it's
not like this is the first time we've talked about
what Joe has looked like ord the feelings he's emoting
on the sideline. Certainly after the Vegas game it was
pretty notable, which I thought, this was really more that.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I mean, this has felt like that again, just this.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Time you get actual words that we can, you know,
parse through and try to determine exactly.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
What was said.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
And then it ends up in the direction of the
head coach who is embattled, and you know, a sign
of things that of frustration from people, and so to me,
that's really different.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
But his point was, like, I don't think this is anything.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
It doesn't happen all the time, and it's part of
the relationship with quarterback coach, any player and their position,
coach or head coach or whatever in terms of especially
when you wield the kind of power and care about
the entire team in the.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Process like Burrow does.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So I don't think it's as big as certainly not
as it's being made out to be or talked about.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
But you know, it's just the latest.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Drop in the bucket of this year, Like it's just
the latest throw them all together at this point. I mean,
whether it's whether it's throwing something on the sideline, whether
it's say the things that we're said about t Higgins
and whatever, whether it's the Vegas game, whether you know,
all of these things that have happened along the way.
You know, it was a long day, the end of
(05:35):
a long week, at the end of a long season,
kind of an even worse year for a dude that
just wants to go win and the team is not
winning and they're doing dumb things like they did all
day on Sunday. And that's frustrating and it makes you
want to say fat right, Like that's just that's the
type of spot that it was. I just think it's
(05:56):
more encapsulation of all of it than it is about
one single moment in time or one person.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
I mean all year along, Joe has looked like you
ever seen somebody that you want to say to him, like, dude,
you just got you got something to say?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yeah, Joe just has.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Looked like a guy that has something to say.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
And now he's saying him yeah, And now he's kind
of saying it's like it yeah, I like it too.
This was again we mentioned I mentioned Vegas a couple
of times because it's this is exactly that. This, this
is that, but this is the next level of that,
and you can you would would you prefer the op
would you prefer to not see this stuff?
Speaker 3 (06:30):
No? Right? I mean to me, like, this is this
is what it should look like. One.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
You should be comfortable to vent on the sideline at
the end of a game.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Like that, to a coach, to a player, to whoever.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I don't care, especially if you're Joe Burrow and and
I want you want that, you want that tone to
be sent. You want everybody to know that you're not happy.
Maybe you weren't, you know, announcing it to the team
there more like he did after the Vegas game.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
In the locker room. But you you aren't.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
It's out there now, So I don't think that there's
any problem with that, And I don't think he was
shy about that with anybody else there on the sideline either,
seeing what they saw.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
So I just this is what it. This is what
it looks like, and it's probably what it should look like.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yes, And I think that that's that kind of gets lost.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Everybody wants.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I want to fight the trauma right now, see it,
everybody I wish. I think I think they would be
much better off if we had about six videos like
that right now.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
So right I was thinking about it because I'm I
admittedly I said this to you on your podcast. That
game on Sunday was so drunk that there was so
much other stuff that happened that I kind of just
mixed Joe's what are we calling it? Tirade?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I went, I went, I went venting, venting that.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
I I just kind of threw Joe's venting into that
large collection of stuff that happened on Sunday, And there's
a part of me that's like, you know, those things
do happen during the course of an NFL game. But
the more I thought about it, like, that's yep, you've
seen Moneyball. Billy Bean goes into the A's clubhouse and
(08:14):
everybody's having a good time, and the Jeremy Giambi, the
character in the movie, is up dancing and the music's
playing and Brad Pitt's playing Billy Bean and he goes
in the clubhouse and he smashes the stereo and he
says something like, is losing fun?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
You know?
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Then then then why you guy's having fun? And at
the end of it, he says, hear that and there's
no sound, there's no you know, everybody's quiet, and he goes,
that's what losing sounds like. That's what losing looks like
on Sunday. The guy, the star who has the most
on the line here, the guy with the high standards
getting pissed off at the circumstances surrounding him. In some way,
(08:56):
shape or form. That's what losing looks like. Yes, that's
losing sounds like. That's what should come with losing because
if it didn't, that's even more problematic.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, and that's also a guy who has never had
to do this before.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
I mean, I think that you know.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
You you you think of Joe Burrow.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
He's like, man, he's done everything, He's done it all.
He's never done this.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
He has never you know, he's gotten hurt a couple
of years, so he hasn't had to play out the
string of a season that was over. He has made
it to the championship game in the super Bowl, but
he's he's and he's gone through rehabs and he's won
the Heisman all these things.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
He's never done this.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Where he's dealing with a team where around him is
just a bunch of shenanigans and a bunch of people
who aren't getting it done. And that's not even discussing
the high level that he is playing at and trying
to hold people accountable to. And so you're watching him
live that and adjust to that and figure out what
that feels and looks like in real time. Now, you
(09:58):
don't you hope this isn't something that certainly organizationally, they
don't want to be going through this again. But I'm
sure that he'll come out of this with some lessons,
whether it's about body language or time and place, or
a need to be more like this or less like
this or whatever he deems, you know, his takeaway of
the result of seeing this stuff and then the reaction
(10:19):
to this stuff. But it's his first time going through it,
and I think that you know, you're just seeing a
dude live it in real time. And he's not really
hiding much, which is saying something because that's something that
he does normally do. Is Yeah, he's not trying to
put out you know, he's very aware of body language
and everything he says. It's all very calculated, and I
think at this point there's just there's just no reason
(10:42):
to do that anymore.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Well, when he guides this team to the postseason, Yeah, right,
of course you know that the tone, the visual, the
tenor it'll it'll all change.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
So how close do they have to get for them
to admit they have a chance at the postseason because
still waiting on that.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I mean, I've never been around a team and out
here been around.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
A lot of seasons where the percentages were at similar
numbers like this.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, there's always the until we're dead. It doesn't feel
that way.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
No, there's almost an admitt There's been an admittance for
weeks of like yeah, I mean no one's out there
saying like, yeah, we got that, we still got a chance, okay,
until until it says zeros, it's chipping a chair and
a prayer and off we go, right, Like that's that's
that is not the way it has felt for weeks.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
It has.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
It has felt like resigned, right that. Yeah, I mean yeah,
I mean a chances.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Are they aware that mathematically they have a chance, they
are aware? Are they aware that those odds will increase
if the Chargers win on Thursday?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I think they're more aware now, Okay, certainly prior to
this there has and there's really I think they've just
taken on the idea of like, let's just go play,
let's try to play good football, and there's nothing nothing
we can do about the fact that we need fourteen
things to happen.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Yeah, I'm not really sure they played good football.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Try Titans. No, uh, well.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
They do have a chance. They do have it, And
so that was one of my questions, like is because
the game, watching it on television on Sunday felt like
Red's Pirates on like a Tuesday night in September, right,
but you know they they're still you know, they're still there,
still have a chance, And I just I wonder when
when could things turn and my senses at least to
(12:23):
a degree, like you'll be there on Friday if the
Chargers win the game on Thursday. Not that it's likely
because a billion things still have to happen, but conversation
does shift a little bit.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, No, I think that's I think that is clearly
when it becomes real ish, I think they can start
to admit, Okay, it's a little more in their hands now.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Now the next step is.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Beat the Browns on Sunday, beat the Broncos after that,
and you're playing for it, you know, in the final
week of the season, right, you're gonna play yourself into
a chance. It's in your hands to do that. I
think it changes that the conversation, but it has not
been that to this point.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
Okay, very good. It's eighteen. I hope they ruined their
own vacation plans, do you.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yeah, sure, yeah, it could be fun story.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I want them in the playoffs, yes, no, but I
mean yes, yes, yes, yeah, obviously, But I'm just saying,
like I do think.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
I like the idea of the Bills or the Chiefs
being like, I thought we got.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Rid of this exactly right exactly and being like, oh,
trust me, that's the last thing you want to say.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
I am not counting on this happening. I'm not betting
on this happening. I am I am not going to
be like crushed if it doesn't happen. But yeah, Like,
I think it'd be an awesome story if this team
went from not even in the in the Hunt column,
everybody running their obituaries for the season counting them out,
and now here they go into Buffalo or Kansas City
(13:54):
with Joe Burrow and oh boy, now what might happen? Yeah,
that would be awesome.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Remember the year they went to in twenty fourteen and
they went to Indianapolis and yeah, like and Kobe Hamilton
had to play a bunch of receiver. I feel like
it's gonna feel a lot like that right where you're
in the fact that who's gonna be out there? Right
I mean you're you're defensively, they're you know, they're gonna
be that the point that they're at right now in
terms of health and everything else.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
The Hawking secondary we saw against will lewd against that.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
If you throw it right to them, they'll catch it.
Don't forget it.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
But you know, even on the offensive line, I mean,
they are the pieces that we're watching getting put together
at this point.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I mean, I'm sure that there's always you know, but there's.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
There's just imagine being like sitting here before a playoff game,
being like, if Devin cochrane can just hold up, you know,
and and being like, I think it could. I think
they can hold you know. That's that's probably more the
likely with the conversations because twenty minutes.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
After three o'clock, he's Paul day Or Junior. Follow him
on next side, Paul Days Junior. We're here at Buffalo
Wild Wings and Milford. Paul's here till four. We're here
here till six. We've got Bengals Brown's tickets to give away,
and so you can win them if you get here.
A lot more to get to with Paul when we
come back on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. This
(15:17):
is ESPN fifteen thirty Molegger with Paul day Or Junior.
Here till four o'clock. We are at Buffalo Wild Wings,
Milford until six o'clock tonight and we're giving away tickets
to go see the Bengals and Browns. Your chance to
go see Dorian Thompson Robinson start that game for Cleveland.
What other Bengals note, Bengals Broncos a week from Saturday
(15:39):
will now be on Saturday.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Four to thirty kickoff. I like the four thirty.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Love the four thirty Saturday for you know, I mean,
I'm on the record Sunday at one personally sure, just
strictly personally for me, yea, getting home, having dinner at.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
The house, all that.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
But from a like pay course stadium perspective, it'd be
fun the four to thirty start. I always always felt
like those have felt good because it gets dark towards
the end. You kind of get a little bit of both.
You can you're still like day drinking, which you can do,
and still you know, you sleep in enough. I feel like,
from a Cincinnati perspective, love the four thirty.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Kis.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Now here's the thing about this game. Yeah, in their
quest to make the postseason. Yeah, so the Bengals need
the loser of Thursday's game to go winless, right, So
if the Broncos lose, they need them to lose their
last two, including obviously the game head to head with Cincinnati.
If the Chargers lose, the Bengals need them to lose
(16:38):
their last two. The Chargers play right before the Bengals
four to thirty game, so the ultimate air out of
the balloon could be if the Chargers beat the Patriots
and then at four thirty on Sunday, business decisions have
to be made.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, oh, business decisions? You love that? No?
Speaker 4 (16:55):
Not really?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Yeah, well, I will say the moment the Chargers Denver
result goes the wrong way, if Denver wins that game
on Thursday, you don't.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Need to walk? Are you?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Is anyone here banking on the Patriots and the Raiders
in back to back weeks being able to pull off
a way?
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Well, Pike and I did say on our show yesterday
that if if if the Broncos win, we can call it. Yes, yes,
it's like election, that's election night.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Where we've reached Yeah, we've reached this point. Yeah, enough
precincts of reporting.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yep, Yeah, we've reached that point where okay, we an
elimination game is officially upon us, right, and they've kind
of there's been versions of that, but this is one
result that basically is an elimination game on Thursday.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
If not opens the door.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Has Sam Hubbard taken his last nap as a Bengal?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
It's a great question, uh, on this contract. Absolutely, I
don't think that's a stretch to say, like the money
taking him taking everything else out of it, which is
significant him, his contribution, his relationships on the team, what
he means to everybody there. Taking even taking all that
out of it, there's no it's gonna be a hard justification.
(18:14):
They've you know, similar to Joe Mixon when he.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Took his pay cut.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
If if there is a future for Sam Hubbard here,
it would have to be a rethinking of what that
looks like, and it would probably be some form of
a pay cut.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Now, can he play tight end better than Cam Grandy? Probably?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
At at least Sam Hubbard hasn't jumped off sides fall started,
So you have that going for you. I like his hands,
I mean at this point, so but I will say,
I mean I think that that feels like, that feels
like Probably where the discussion is going to end up
(18:52):
is what does Sam want to do? How much do
the Bengals view the idea of his presence being meaningful,
which and don't snicker at that, Let's rethink. Let's rehab
the DJ reader conversation. Okay, a dude whose presence would
have been just as meaningful off the field as what
would have been on the field this year for a
defense that lost its soul this year.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
I drive the T. Higgins conversation in that same direction.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
But I think there's a lot of value still left
to Sam Hubbard. Now it's not gonna be in the
role that he's played in his career here, but it
doesn't have to be that and that and that also
is gonna come down to health wise, like how does
he feel physically? Does he want to go forward with?
Speaker 3 (19:37):
That?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Is it is this two sour of an ending. Although
I can't think of a better play if you were gonna.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Take a last play to do, but would it be
like I'm not going out like that. I can rehab.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I can get back to a level and feel fully
healthy that can contribute to a team. Maybe I'm not
gonna be playing eighty percent of the snaps or even
fifty or whatever. Maybe I'm still helping young guys. I'm
in a rotational role and I'm a run stopping edge
or whatever, and the Bengals feel like that's something they
could use, including his presence, there's a match there. I
think there's certainly a middle ground there if all sides
(20:13):
feel like that's worth their time and worthwhile I don't.
Sam is unique because of how beloved he is in
the city and him being a Cincinnati guy, everything he's
done and is doing with his foundation here. You know,
he's a guy who has a lot of the rest
of my life value to being in Cincinnati and having
(20:33):
only played in one place in his career and being
the Cincinnati kid. That can help him certainly as a
jumping off point to whatever he wants to do in
his post football career, which is probably gonna be significant
if you look what he's already done off the field
and his current football career. So I think there's value.
There's less value to him doing what a lot of
guys do, which is go jump and you play one
(20:55):
or two years and you know what are you gonna
Sam Hubbard with like playing a year for the Hawks
and a rotation like.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Like guys do that, absolutely, But I think for somebody
who's specifically positioned the way he is, it doesn't make
as much sense, but if he wants to play football,
maybe that's a decision he has to make.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
To my sneaky favorite moment of the season.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Okay, Sam scores.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
The touchdown, which is cool, right, and at least on television,
you're watching him spike the ball, flexes and then you
sort of see looking like a bat boy, Joe Burrow
going over and retrieving the football for him. And because
I have a spot in my heart for hokiness, I
just thought that was cool.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah. Yeah, we did the same thing with Andrea he did.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
I don't know how many I don't know how many
quarterbacks would have had the awareness to go do that.
Maybe with a defensive guy where it's like, all right,
he's he's never had a chance to get one on
offense and they're they're very tight. But I just I
said out loud, like I think that's cool.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah, it is cool.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Well, I you wouldn't think if that happened in the
spur of a moment and a weird thing. You know,
they were planning, they everybody knew this play was on deck,
like they Sam's out there on Friday running routes, catching
balls from Joe and from Jake Browning and practicing the
play and making sure he's gonna do it just right,
and so everybody knew exactly what it was gonna be.
(22:21):
And so when you know that, and I mean Sam's
out here practicing his spike flex combo during the week,
Joe's like, Okay, I'll be the one to go get
the ball for you. We'll make sure we get the
ball for you. When if you're gonna do that, I
feel like it's in the back of your mind.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
But the fact that he thinks.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
That way and understands the value of it does speak,
you know, a lot to Joe and his and it
is cool. But I like, I loved burrows reaction specifically
when talking about that play, like, oh, whether maybe other
options you could have considered there or whatever. Throwing the balls,
he tells you they were gonna go ford On, they
(22:57):
were gonna go four and fourth. I'm throwing it to
my boy. I don't care how covered it looks like
it is. I'm giving him the chance to go get
the touchdown pass. And the fact that he was able
to come down with it, uh, just just really cool
and on everyone could Sam come back for the playoffs?
I mean the fact that there the IR and the
unlikely the lack of IR and using the term unlikely
(23:22):
happened yesterday would suggest that that's possible. So he could
maybe take the Grandy role at that point, all right, Yeah,
so he would be active for like the Super Bowl, yeah, Huson, Yeah,
Aiden Hutchinson, Sam Hubbard both both. I don't know what
the possibility are when the Bengals are playing, right, of course,
(23:45):
of course, because this is the part of this is
the part of this. Okay, that's like, couldn't you just
see everything fall their way? Yes, and then lose to
the Steelers right or to the Broncos either way.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Yeah, but I gotta see this.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I'm still waiting on this team to beat somebody good
this year.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
By the way, Well, it's not gonna have it on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
We know that, That's what I'm saying, but we still
haven't seen that yet.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
It's like, and they haven't lately been playing that great
against these not so great teams. So you tell me
what part of the eye test convinces you that they'll
even be able to beat Denver and Pittsburgh?
Speaker 4 (24:21):
Can they sure?
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Because they'll play the games and they have nine and
one in whatever.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
But I'm still waiting to look like a team that
that could pull that they could pull off beating Denver
and Pittsburgh. Like, that's the part of the math that's
not ending up in these percentages.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Which one do you subscribe to? What if to just
whichever one's highest one?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
What?
Speaker 4 (24:41):
So I've memorized them. Okay, so I think you guys
had it at four. Okay, New York Times Athletic four percent.
NFL dot com had them at six. D v O
A two point one playoff status dot com.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Two Yeah, DVOA taking the Bengals head team more into account, yes, yeah, right,
the way that they're playing, in the levels that they're
playing at A yeah. So I again, that's the part
that I feel like does get a little bit lost,
is they still got to prove they can do that. Sure,
but what you keep We'll see what the numbers are
(25:14):
after Thursday.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Yeah, I can't wait. It's twenty three away from four o'clock.
We are way late. He's Paul Danner, Ginioromoegger. We're a
Pufalo Wild Wings and Milford on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Station SINCY three sixty with Tony Pike.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Do we want to move on? Would like to keep going?
And Boston Elmore, I think you should continue to Let
me keep going.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
There Sincy three sixty tomorrow which twelve noons on ESPN
fifteen thirty.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Cincinnati's and the sports headlines are a service. Excuse me
of Kelsey Chevrolet home of lifetime powertrain protection and guarantee
credit approval from their family to yours for live Kelsey
chef dot com. Bengals Broncos Game Week seventeen will be
a week from Saturday, four to thirty. Kickoff, Write it
down now. Jorian Thompson Robinson's going to start for the
Browns on Sunday. Bengals Browns Sunday afternoon at one. The
(26:05):
game live on ESPN fifteen thirty. Pre game coverage starts
at nine oh five. According to a number of broadcast reports,
the Reds are either kicking the tires, interested in, showing interest,
in asking about, or in on any number of potential
free agents. College basketball Dayton's playing U and l V
tonight and the Columbus Blue Jackets skate against Tampa Bay.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
That was a very specific Baseball Report.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Every time I look at social media, I read about
how a player signed somewhere. Well, the Reds kick the
tires on. Yeah, the Reds asked about they're into free
agents the way I was in the girls in high school.
Like a lot of them. I'm interested in none of them.
My date right, same thing.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Sorry, these wings smell really good. You should have one. Yeah,
I'm really good. Are you a hot Are you like
a hot wings guy?
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yeah, you are?
Speaker 4 (26:56):
I am.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I'm not that would make we can do like a
hot Ones type show these days where you just kind
of make me feel very uncomfortable having to eat a
bunch of hot wings and just see what comes out
of my mouth.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
That's just the garlic parmesan.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, I like this is this is I'm good with this.
It's not too hot. That's pretty mild.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
I like the garlic.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
You don't want to do super hot while you're trying
to execute a three hour talk.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Show, but I like to see it one of these times.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
Those are really good. I feel bad for Brian Callahan.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
It to sit there and watch both sides play out right,
where it's like, Okay, this is the quarterback I used
to be in charge of he does these things with
this guy, and now I get this guy who just
keeps throwing it to the other team and seems to
have no discernible clue.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
What's going to the point where you're like, I think
Mason Rudolph's a better option. That's got to be a
low place.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
But at least, you know what though, at least he
gets a pretty clear decision. There's no there's no gray
area where any one in the organizations like, I don't.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
Know, should we maybe maybe try to develop its crystal clear?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
And now you know, you got to go get a
quarterback in the draft or free agency or whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
And and that's, uh, that's a good thing.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
You wrote last week about Chase Brown, Yeah, which was
really good, And then he had another game where he
had a positive impact, including catching the pass on the
the nine second Joe Burrow scramble, which was awesome. Chase
Brown is a better football player than Joe Mixon. Discuss
haven't we already? I think with they had it right
with him right now. I wish Zach Moss would have
(28:36):
been better when he played, and I wish he was healthy,
But Joe Mixon's having an alright ear both players are
averaging four point eight yards of touch. Chase and Joe,
they got it right.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Well, I will say this, Chase Brown is a better
player for the Bengals than Joe Mixon and that's clear. Yes,
they're different styles. You know, Chase Brown style fits a
team that wants to throw the ball more than anybody
in football. Specifically the way he developed himself this offseason
into a better receiver, that's apparent. The fact that Luke
(29:10):
Gifford's wearing number fifty seven, had to try to chase
him around for nine seconds is the perfect example of that.
You're forcing these linebackers to have to chase Chase Brown.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Sorry about that, but you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
You're forcing them to do these things. That is why
they made this move. That is the reason, because that's
the type of team that they want to be.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
They want to be able to.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Get teams into that matchup consistently. And you've noticed they've
done that in tons of big spots. Now as they've
continued to get comfortable with Chase Brown, and not just
they're just anywhere they can get him. He's out here
on the outside running slants. They threw the go to
him the other day on.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Fourth and three.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
They're just trying to get Chase Brown isolated on a
linebacker that's their go to, even with everybody else healthy,
And you think about that and how they've come in
that regard. That's just a much better fit than somebody
who's gonna be you know, more of a pounding need
to be in there and has to get twenty twenty
five carries, and that's where they make their money and
(30:12):
make their impact, like Mix, and that's no discounting Mix,
and you've seen what he can do still in Houston.
It's just a different style of ball that makes more sense,
and you're seeing that just come to fruition.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
And then some for them.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I don't think even if you gave him truths here
him even they couldn't have seen Chase Brown developing the
way that he has to become this central of a
figure because the unknowns were one before entering the season.
The unknown was his receiving ability, but it certainly was
his ability to help in pass pro and to show
a lot of awareness there and he's been really good
at that and that's why he wasn't playing more over
(30:47):
Zach Moss in the first place was because it wasn't
that they didn't think he could do it, He just
hadn't really done it. So why take that chance when
you had everything else going on? Now You're like, man,
you wish they would have gone to Chase Brown earlier.
How many more wins would that have given him?
Speaker 4 (31:00):
No question, he seems like a guy who never screws up.
Not that every play is a positive, but but you
know what I mean, Like it just it seems like
he seems like a guy who always knows what his
assignment is, who is supposed to block, what his route
is supposed to be, where the running play is supposed
to go. Like I've watched this for long enough, I
think you could identify those guys. He's obviously got great
(31:23):
athletic ability, but he just he seems like a really
smart player.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yes, well, he played a lot of football. I mean
the amount of we you know, I.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Felt it was almost a detraction on his scouting report
when he came out because of the sheer volume of
carries that he had. But he played a ton of football,
just situational football, understanding the game, learning from stuff that's
gone on. That shows And I mean I remember scouts
talking to me but before the Bengals even took them
and being like this, talking about him and his and
(31:54):
his brother Sidney who ended up in Philadelphia, being like this,
these guys like these are really solid people, like they
are reliable, they are consistent. They're the type of people
you want to build around from personality, perspective, culture stuff.
And I think that shows through. I mean that has
shown since the moment Chase. I mean, take just take
(32:15):
what I mentioned before, what he did this offseason. I mean,
I Drew Lieberman, the wide receiver coach I wrote a
story about with him and Andre down there, say he's
never seen anything like it, Like the dedication that him
and Andre both had to that is what made the
difference in them both making the strides that they did.
Where they were he was in Vegas doing stuff for
(32:35):
some other client, and they said, all.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Right, well we'll fly to Vegas. They can just go
work out.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
They didn't go to the strip. They just wanted to
get their workouts in with him. So they went there
and they did their work there. They were never gonna
miss They spent all the time there. And it pays
on when you get people that it matters too, Like
that and have that next level you can get results
in production and the type of personality that you're talking
about there where you just feel like never messes up.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
So that little soliloquy about Chase Brown keeps us from
having to talk about how I would rather pour wing
sauce into my eyeballs than watch the two starting guards anymore.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
You might not have to, Hey, would you? So your team?
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Are you team stupor I'm team anybody? Okay, okay, I'm
team put a refrigerator there? Whatever?
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Are you team Matt Lee to center? No, I had
Carris to guards.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
I'm team feeling bad for Ted Carris who has to
look to one side and go, okay, I gotta help him,
And then wait a minute, I might have to go
help him, like what are we doing?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
But hey, but then you wouldn't be able to see
as much of the Joe Burrow magic as you get
to see, because when you have one quick turnstile that
happens all of a sudden, you get to see all
the cool moves he makes before it throws.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Thus and then when I see him get carted off,
that'll be a lot of fun too, all right, Read
Paul Tanner Junior's work in the Athletic dot com. Catch
the podcast. It's called The Growler. Today's episode balls Don't Lie.
Go get that, as we say, where you get your podcasts. Uh,
we're not doing this next Tuesday. So have a great Christmas.
Awesome you do the same, body, all right. We're at
Buffalo Wild Wings, Milford here till six o'clock giving away
(34:00):
Bengals Browns tickets on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports take
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Cincinnati's
It's the Battle of Ohio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
You touchdown pass number five for Joel Burrow.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Joe Burrow and his Big bad Bengals White for their
playoff lives like May line up against the Brownstar in October,
the Orange and Black beat the Brown. Yes, Gongo, you'll
May triumphant victory again and keep their postseason Greens alive.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Up and nail, I am Bam fame when.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
You get the call from Dangerous Dan ord A Mighty
Dave Black. Coverage begins Sunday morning at nine on ESPN
fifteen thirty, the official home of the Bengals.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
I'll tell you what. I'm ready now after hearing that,
I am ready now for this massive Battle of Ohio
playoff boats on the line Bangles and Browns on Sunday.
Holy crap, are you kidding me? Sign me the hell up.
First things first, we are broadcasting on Mulegger at Buffalo
Wild Wings in Milford this afternoon. If you want to
(00:57):
win tickets to that game Bengal and Browns on Sunday,
our friends at bud Light have given us a pair,
so sign up. You might win. You can't win if
you're not here. We've also got a couple of Bengals.
Nike golf hoodies were given away. We've got to buy one,
get one half off traditional Wings. We've got the six
for nineteen ninety nine menu, which you cannot beat. We've
(01:19):
got Buffalo Wild Wings gift cards where if you buy
twenty five dollars worth you get a five dollars bonus.
We're loaded today here at beat ups in Milford right
off I two seventy five. So when you're getting off
for it, come on out and see us. Last time
we were here we had a great crowd, so hopefully
we can double that up. Perhaps Paul Tanner Junior's here.
(01:39):
What's up covering the Bengals and they're pushed toward the postseason.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
The push for the adles.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
You know what, I love it, hold on to hope.
What else you're doing right? It rights? It beats talking
about I don't know the future of Muma Jong Meta
and and maybe the spandid role of Josh Newton or whatever.
Like I mean, let's let's let's talk at Devin Cochrane.
(02:06):
What a what a performance off the off the practice
squad from Devon. Yes, yes, it beats that. We can
talk about percentage points. Let's go yes, let's go, right,
we can.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
We can go into different playoff predicting models. And do
we need to. I don't know if we need to.
I don't know if we need to, but but we can,
we can.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Paul covers the Bengals for The Athletic dot Com and
the Growl of podcast latest episode, out Balls Don't Lie.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah, very good?
Speaker 4 (02:37):
All right? So, uh on your podcast this morning, I
joined you to talk about Joe Burrows.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
What are we calling it? Outburst explosion? What what are
we calling venting? Okay, venting session? Joe Burrows venting session. Yes, Okay,
That's what I'm here for.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Yeah, And so I want folks to listen to or
watch that conversation because I thought it was at least
the part that I was able to participate it, I
thought it was good. I just want to ask you this,
how big of a deal?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Is this minimal? I don't think it's some huge thing.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
We were talking to dam Pitcher about this yesterday, and
I was kind of specifically asking him because really, nobody
has sat right next to Joe Burrow more in his
professional career than Dan Pitcher and sat next to him
for all those years a quarterback coach, And you said,
how that that attitude, that feeling, you know, that out
kind of of eventing outburst whatever. How rare is that?
(03:40):
And he said, you know what, it happens a lot
more than people think.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
So I said, he's.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Gotten into it multiple times with Joe over the years.
He said, that's just part of it. When you have
somebody who is and he called him pretty much the
most competitive athletes he's ever been around. That when that
is the feeling of the moment, that's the type of
stuff that happens. It happens more than you would think,
or certainly more that gets reported on. But you know what,
(04:05):
when a season's going like this and you've had it's
not like this is the first time we've talked about
what Joe has looked like ord the feelings he's emoting
on the sideline. Certainly after the Vegas game it was
pretty notable, which I thought, this was really more that.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I mean, this has felt like that again, just this.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Time you get actual words that we can, you know,
parse through and try to determine exactly.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
What was said.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
And then it ends up in the direction of the
head coach who is embattled, and you know, a sign
of things that of frustration from people, and so to me,
that's really different.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
But his point was, like, I don't think this is anything.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
It doesn't happen all the time, and it's part of
the relationship with quarterback coach, any player and their position,
coach or head coach or whatever in terms of especially
when you wield the kind of power and care about
the entire team in the.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Process like Burrow does.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
So I don't think it's as big as certainly not
as it's being made out to be or talked about.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
But you know, it's just the latest.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Drop in the bucket of this year, Like it's just
the latest throw them all together at this point. I mean,
whether it's whether it's throwing something on the sideline, whether
it's say the things that we're said about t Higgins
and whatever, whether it's the Vegas game, whether you know,
all of these things that have happened along the way.
You know, it was a long day, the end of
(05:35):
a long week, at the end of a long season,
kind of an even worse year for a dude that
just wants to go win and the team is not
winning and they're doing dumb things like they did all
day on Sunday. And that's frustrating and it makes you
want to say fat right, Like that's just that's the
type of spot that it was. I just think it's
(05:56):
more encapsulation of all of it than it is about
one single moment in time or one person.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
I mean all year along, Joe has looked like you
ever seen somebody that you want to say to him, like, dude,
you just got you got something to say?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yeah, Joe just has.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Looked like a guy that has something to say.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
And now he's saying him yeah, And now he's kind
of saying it's like it yeah, I like it too.
This was again we mentioned I mentioned Vegas a couple
of times because it's this is exactly that. This, this
is that, but this is the next level of that,
and you can you would would you prefer the op
would you prefer to not see this stuff?
Speaker 3 (06:30):
No? Right? I mean to me, like, this is this
is what it should look like. One.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
You should be comfortable to vent on the sideline at
the end of a game.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Like that, to a coach, to a player, to whoever.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I don't care, especially if you're Joe Burrow and and
I want you want that, you want that tone to
be sent. You want everybody to know that you're not happy.
Maybe you weren't, you know, announcing it to the team
there more like he did after the Vegas game.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
In the locker room. But you you aren't.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
It's out there now, So I don't think that there's
any problem with that, And I don't think he was
shy about that with anybody else there on the sideline either,
seeing what they saw.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
So I just this is what it. This is what
it looks like, and it's probably what it should look like.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yes, And I think that that's that kind of gets lost.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Everybody wants.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I want to fight the trauma right now, see it,
everybody I wish. I think I think they would be
much better off if we had about six videos like
that right now.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
So right I was thinking about it because I'm I
admittedly I said this to you on your podcast. That
game on Sunday was so drunk that there was so
much other stuff that happened that I kind of just
mixed Joe's what are we calling it? Tirade?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I went, I went, I went venting, venting that.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
I I just kind of threw Joe's venting into that
large collection of stuff that happened on Sunday, And there's
a part of me that's like, you know, those things
do happen during the course of an NFL game. But
the more I thought about it, like, that's yep, you've
seen Moneyball. Billy Bean goes into the A's clubhouse and
(08:14):
everybody's having a good time, and the Jeremy Giambi, the
character in the movie, is up dancing and the music's
playing and Brad Pitt's playing Billy Bean and he goes
in the clubhouse and he smashes the stereo and he
says something like, is losing fun?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
You know?
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Then then then why you guy's having fun? And at
the end of it, he says, hear that and there's
no sound, there's no you know, everybody's quiet, and he goes,
that's what losing sounds like. That's what losing looks like
on Sunday. The guy, the star who has the most
on the line here, the guy with the high standards
getting pissed off at the circumstances surrounding him. In some way,
(08:56):
shape or form. That's what losing looks like. Yes, that's
losing sounds like. That's what should come with losing because
if it didn't, that's even more problematic.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, and that's also a guy who has never had
to do this before.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
I mean, I think that you know.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
You you you think of Joe Burrow.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
He's like, man, he's done everything, He's done it all.
He's never done this.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
He has never you know, he's gotten hurt a couple
of years, so he hasn't had to play out the
string of a season that was over. He has made
it to the championship game in the super Bowl, but
he's he's and he's gone through rehabs and he's won
the Heisman all these things.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
He's never done this.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Where he's dealing with a team where around him is
just a bunch of shenanigans and a bunch of people
who aren't getting it done. And that's not even discussing
the high level that he is playing at and trying
to hold people accountable to. And so you're watching him
live that and adjust to that and figure out what
that feels and looks like in real time. Now, you
(09:58):
don't you hope this isn't something that certainly organizationally, they
don't want to be going through this again. But I'm
sure that he'll come out of this with some lessons,
whether it's about body language or time and place, or
a need to be more like this or less like
this or whatever he deems, you know, his takeaway of
the result of seeing this stuff and then the reaction
(10:19):
to this stuff. But it's his first time going through it,
and I think that you know, you're just seeing a
dude live it in real time. And he's not really
hiding much, which is saying something because that's something that
he does normally do. Is Yeah, he's not trying to
put out you know, he's very aware of body language
and everything he says. It's all very calculated, and I
think at this point there's just there's just no reason
(10:42):
to do that anymore.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Well, when he guides this team to the postseason, Yeah, right,
of course you know that the tone, the visual, the
tenor it'll it'll all change.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
So how close do they have to get for them
to admit they have a chance at the postseason because
still waiting on that.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I mean, I've never been around a team and out
here been around.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
A lot of seasons where the percentages were at similar
numbers like this.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, there's always the until we're dead. It doesn't feel
that way.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
No, there's almost an admitt There's been an admittance for
weeks of like yeah, I mean no one's out there
saying like, yeah, we got that, we still got a chance, okay,
until until it says zeros, it's chipping a chair and
a prayer and off we go, right, Like that's that's
that is not the way it has felt for weeks.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
It has.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
It has felt like resigned, right that. Yeah, I mean yeah,
I mean a chances.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Are they aware that mathematically they have a chance, they
are aware? Are they aware that those odds will increase
if the Chargers win on Thursday?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I think they're more aware now, Okay, certainly prior to
this there has and there's really I think they've just
taken on the idea of like, let's just go play,
let's try to play good football, and there's nothing nothing
we can do about the fact that we need fourteen
things to happen.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Yeah, I'm not really sure they played good football.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Try Titans. No, uh, well.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
They do have a chance. They do have it, And
so that was one of my questions, like is because
the game, watching it on television on Sunday felt like
Red's Pirates on like a Tuesday night in September, right,
but you know they they're still you know, they're still there,
still have a chance, And I just I wonder when
when could things turn and my senses at least to
(12:23):
a degree, like you'll be there on Friday if the
Chargers win the game on Thursday. Not that it's likely
because a billion things still have to happen, but conversation
does shift a little bit.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, No, I think that's I think that is clearly
when it becomes real ish, I think they can start
to admit, Okay, it's a little more in their hands now.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Now the next step is.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Beat the Browns on Sunday, beat the Broncos after that,
and you're playing for it, you know, in the final
week of the season, right, you're gonna play yourself into
a chance. It's in your hands to do that. I
think it changes that the conversation, but it has not
been that to this point.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
Okay, very good. It's eighteen. I hope they ruined their
own vacation plans, do you.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yeah, sure, yeah, it could be fun story.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I want them in the playoffs, yes, no, but I
mean yes, yes, yes, yeah, obviously, But I'm just saying,
like I do think.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
I like the idea of the Bills or the Chiefs
being like, I thought we got.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Rid of this exactly right exactly and being like, oh,
trust me, that's the last thing you want to say.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
I am not counting on this happening. I'm not betting
on this happening. I am I am not going to
be like crushed if it doesn't happen. But yeah, Like,
I think it'd be an awesome story if this team
went from not even in the in the Hunt column,
everybody running their obituaries for the season counting them out,
and now here they go into Buffalo or Kansas City
(13:54):
with Joe Burrow and oh boy, now what might happen? Yeah,
that would be awesome.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Remember the year they went to in twenty fourteen and
they went to Indianapolis and yeah, like and Kobe Hamilton
had to play a bunch of receiver. I feel like
it's gonna feel a lot like that right where you're
in the fact that who's gonna be out there? Right
I mean you're you're defensively, they're you know, they're gonna
be that the point that they're at right now in
terms of health and everything else.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
The Hawking secondary we saw against will lewd against that.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
If you throw it right to them, they'll catch it.
Don't forget it.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
But you know, even on the offensive line, I mean,
they are the pieces that we're watching getting put together
at this point.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I mean, I'm sure that there's always you know, but there's.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
There's just imagine being like sitting here before a playoff game,
being like, if Devin cochrane can just hold up, you know,
and and being like, I think it could. I think
they can hold you know. That's that's probably more the
likely with the conversations because twenty minutes.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
After three o'clock, he's Paul day Or Junior. Follow him
on next side, Paul Days Junior. We're here at Buffalo
Wild Wings and Milford. Paul's here till four. We're here
here till six. We've got Bengals Brown's tickets to give away,
and so you can win them if you get here.
A lot more to get to with Paul when we
come back on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. This
(15:17):
is ESPN fifteen thirty Molegger with Paul day Or Junior.
Here till four o'clock. We are at Buffalo Wild Wings,
Milford until six o'clock tonight and we're giving away tickets
to go see the Bengals and Browns. Your chance to
go see Dorian Thompson Robinson start that game for Cleveland.
What other Bengals note, Bengals Broncos a week from Saturday
(15:39):
will now be on Saturday.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Four to thirty kickoff. I like the four thirty.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Love the four thirty Saturday for you know, I mean,
I'm on the record Sunday at one personally sure, just
strictly personally for me, yea, getting home, having dinner at.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
The house, all that.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
But from a like pay course stadium perspective, it'd be
fun the four to thirty start. I always always felt
like those have felt good because it gets dark towards
the end. You kind of get a little bit of both.
You can you're still like day drinking, which you can do,
and still you know, you sleep in enough. I feel like,
from a Cincinnati perspective, love the four thirty.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Kis.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Now here's the thing about this game. Yeah, in their
quest to make the postseason. Yeah, so the Bengals need
the loser of Thursday's game to go winless, right, So
if the Broncos lose, they need them to lose their
last two, including obviously the game head to head with Cincinnati.
If the Chargers lose, the Bengals need them to lose
(16:38):
their last two. The Chargers play right before the Bengals
four to thirty game, so the ultimate air out of
the balloon could be if the Chargers beat the Patriots
and then at four thirty on Sunday, business decisions have
to be made.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, oh, business decisions? You love that? No?
Speaker 4 (16:55):
Not really?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Yeah, well, I will say the moment the Chargers Denver
result goes the wrong way, if Denver wins that game
on Thursday, you don't.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Need to walk? Are you?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Is anyone here banking on the Patriots and the Raiders
in back to back weeks being able to pull off
a way?
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Well, Pike and I did say on our show yesterday
that if if if the Broncos win, we can call it. Yes, yes,
it's like election, that's election night.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Where we've reached Yeah, we've reached this point. Yeah, enough
precincts of reporting.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yep, Yeah, we've reached that point where okay, we an
elimination game is officially upon us, right, and they've kind
of there's been versions of that, but this is one
result that basically is an elimination game on Thursday.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
If not opens the door.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Has Sam Hubbard taken his last nap as a Bengal?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
It's a great question, uh, on this contract. Absolutely, I
don't think that's a stretch to say, like the money
taking him taking everything else out of it, which is
significant him, his contribution, his relationships on the team, what
he means to everybody there. Taking even taking all that
out of it, there's no it's gonna be a hard justification.
(18:14):
They've you know, similar to Joe Mixon when he.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Took his pay cut.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
If if there is a future for Sam Hubbard here,
it would have to be a rethinking of what that
looks like, and it would probably be some form of
a pay cut.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Now, can he play tight end better than Cam Grandy? Probably?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
At at least Sam Hubbard hasn't jumped off sides fall started,
So you have that going for you. I like his hands,
I mean at this point, so but I will say,
I mean I think that that feels like, that feels
like Probably where the discussion is going to end up
(18:52):
is what does Sam want to do? How much do
the Bengals view the idea of his presence being meaningful,
which and don't snicker at that, Let's rethink. Let's rehab
the DJ reader conversation. Okay, a dude whose presence would
have been just as meaningful off the field as what
would have been on the field this year for a
defense that lost its soul this year.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
I drive the T. Higgins conversation in that same direction.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
But I think there's a lot of value still left
to Sam Hubbard. Now it's not gonna be in the
role that he's played in his career here, but it
doesn't have to be that and that and that also
is gonna come down to health wise, like how does
he feel physically? Does he want to go forward with?
Speaker 3 (19:37):
That?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Is it is this two sour of an ending. Although
I can't think of a better play if you were gonna.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Take a last play to do, but would it be
like I'm not going out like that. I can rehab.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I can get back to a level and feel fully
healthy that can contribute to a team. Maybe I'm not
gonna be playing eighty percent of the snaps or even
fifty or whatever. Maybe I'm still helping young guys. I'm
in a rotational role and I'm a run stopping edge
or whatever, and the Bengals feel like that's something they
could use, including his presence, there's a match there. I
think there's certainly a middle ground there if all sides
(20:13):
feel like that's worth their time and worthwhile I don't.
Sam is unique because of how beloved he is in
the city and him being a Cincinnati guy, everything he's
done and is doing with his foundation here. You know,
he's a guy who has a lot of the rest
of my life value to being in Cincinnati and having
(20:33):
only played in one place in his career and being
the Cincinnati kid. That can help him certainly as a
jumping off point to whatever he wants to do in
his post football career, which is probably gonna be significant
if you look what he's already done off the field
and his current football career. So I think there's value.
There's less value to him doing what a lot of
guys do, which is go jump and you play one
(20:55):
or two years and you know what are you gonna
Sam Hubbard with like playing a year for the Hawks
and a rotation like.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Like guys do that, absolutely, But I think for somebody
who's specifically positioned the way he is, it doesn't make
as much sense, but if he wants to play football,
maybe that's a decision he has to make.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
To my sneaky favorite moment of the season.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Okay, Sam scores.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
The touchdown, which is cool, right, and at least on television,
you're watching him spike the ball, flexes and then you
sort of see looking like a bat boy, Joe Burrow
going over and retrieving the football for him. And because
I have a spot in my heart for hokiness, I
just thought that was cool.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah. Yeah, we did the same thing with Andrea he did.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
I don't know how many I don't know how many
quarterbacks would have had the awareness to go do that.
Maybe with a defensive guy where it's like, all right,
he's he's never had a chance to get one on
offense and they're they're very tight. But I just I
said out loud, like I think that's cool.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah, it is cool.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Well, I you wouldn't think if that happened in the
spur of a moment and a weird thing. You know,
they were planning, they everybody knew this play was on deck,
like they Sam's out there on Friday running routes, catching
balls from Joe and from Jake Browning and practicing the
play and making sure he's gonna do it just right,
and so everybody knew exactly what it was gonna be.
(22:21):
And so when you know that, and I mean Sam's
out here practicing his spike flex combo during the week,
Joe's like, Okay, I'll be the one to go get
the ball for you. We'll make sure we get the
ball for you. When if you're gonna do that, I
feel like it's in the back of your mind.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
But the fact that he thinks.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
That way and understands the value of it does speak,
you know, a lot to Joe and his and it
is cool. But I like, I loved burrows reaction specifically
when talking about that play, like, oh, whether maybe other
options you could have considered there or whatever. Throwing the balls,
he tells you they were gonna go ford On, they
(22:57):
were gonna go four and fourth. I'm throwing it to
my boy. I don't care how covered it looks like
it is. I'm giving him the chance to go get
the touchdown pass. And the fact that he was able
to come down with it, uh, just just really cool
and on everyone could Sam come back for the playoffs?
I mean the fact that there the IR and the
unlikely the lack of IR and using the term unlikely
(23:22):
happened yesterday would suggest that that's possible. So he could
maybe take the Grandy role at that point, all right, Yeah,
so he would be active for like the Super Bowl, yeah, Huson, Yeah,
Aiden Hutchinson, Sam Hubbard both both. I don't know what
the possibility are when the Bengals are playing, right, of course,
(23:45):
of course, because this is the part of this is
the part of this. Okay, that's like, couldn't you just
see everything fall their way? Yes, and then lose to
the Steelers right or to the Broncos either way.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Yeah, but I gotta see this.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I'm still waiting on this team to beat somebody good
this year.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
By the way, Well, it's not gonna have it on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
We know that, That's what I'm saying, but we still
haven't seen that yet.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
It's like, and they haven't lately been playing that great
against these not so great teams. So you tell me
what part of the eye test convinces you that they'll
even be able to beat Denver and Pittsburgh?
Speaker 4 (24:21):
Can they sure?
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Because they'll play the games and they have nine and
one in whatever.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
But I'm still waiting to look like a team that
that could pull that they could pull off beating Denver
and Pittsburgh. Like, that's the part of the math that's
not ending up in these percentages.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Which one do you subscribe to? What if to just
whichever one's highest one?
Speaker 2 (24:41):
What?
Speaker 4 (24:41):
So I've memorized them. Okay, so I think you guys
had it at four. Okay, New York Times Athletic four percent.
NFL dot com had them at six. D v O
A two point one playoff status dot com.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Two Yeah, DVOA taking the Bengals head team more into account, yes, yeah, right,
the way that they're playing, in the levels that they're
playing at A yeah. So I again, that's the part
that I feel like does get a little bit lost,
is they still got to prove they can do that. Sure,
but what you keep We'll see what the numbers are
(25:14):
after Thursday.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Yeah, I can't wait. It's twenty three away from four o'clock.
We are way late. He's Paul Danner, Ginioromoegger. We're a
Pufalo Wild Wings and Milford on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Station SINCY three sixty with Tony Pike.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Do we want to move on? Would like to keep going?
And Boston Elmore, I think you should continue to Let
me keep going.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
There Sincy three sixty tomorrow which twelve noons on ESPN
fifteen thirty.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Cincinnati's and the sports headlines are a service. Excuse me
of Kelsey Chevrolet home of lifetime powertrain protection and guarantee
credit approval from their family to yours for live Kelsey
chef dot com. Bengals Broncos Game Week seventeen will be
a week from Saturday, four to thirty. Kickoff, Write it
down now. Jorian Thompson Robinson's going to start for the
Browns on Sunday. Bengals Browns Sunday afternoon at one. The
(26:05):
game live on ESPN fifteen thirty. Pre game coverage starts
at nine oh five. According to a number of broadcast reports,
the Reds are either kicking the tires, interested in, showing interest,
in asking about, or in on any number of potential
free agents. College basketball Dayton's playing U and l V
tonight and the Columbus Blue Jackets skate against Tampa Bay.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
That was a very specific Baseball Report.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Every time I look at social media, I read about
how a player signed somewhere. Well, the Reds kick the
tires on. Yeah, the Reds asked about they're into free
agents the way I was in the girls in high school.
Like a lot of them. I'm interested in none of them.
My date right, same thing.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Sorry, these wings smell really good. You should have one. Yeah,
I'm really good. Are you a hot Are you like
a hot wings guy?
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yeah, you are?
Speaker 4 (26:56):
I am.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I'm not that would make we can do like a
hot Ones type show these days where you just kind
of make me feel very uncomfortable having to eat a
bunch of hot wings and just see what comes out
of my mouth.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
That's just the garlic parmesan.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, I like this is this is I'm good with this.
It's not too hot. That's pretty mild.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
I like the garlic.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
You don't want to do super hot while you're trying
to execute a three hour talk.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Show, but I like to see it one of these times.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
Those are really good. I feel bad for Brian Callahan.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
It to sit there and watch both sides play out right,
where it's like, Okay, this is the quarterback I used
to be in charge of he does these things with
this guy, and now I get this guy who just
keeps throwing it to the other team and seems to
have no discernible clue.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
What's going to the point where you're like, I think
Mason Rudolph's a better option. That's got to be a
low place.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
But at least, you know what though, at least he
gets a pretty clear decision. There's no there's no gray
area where any one in the organizations like, I don't.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
Know, should we maybe maybe try to develop its crystal clear?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
And now you know, you got to go get a
quarterback in the draft or free agency or whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
And and that's, uh, that's a good thing.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
You wrote last week about Chase Brown, Yeah, which was
really good, And then he had another game where he
had a positive impact, including catching the pass on the
the nine second Joe Burrow scramble, which was awesome. Chase
Brown is a better football player than Joe Mixon. Discuss
haven't we already? I think with they had it right
with him right now. I wish Zach Moss would have
(28:36):
been better when he played, and I wish he was healthy,
But Joe Mixon's having an alright ear both players are
averaging four point eight yards of touch. Chase and Joe,
they got it right.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Well, I will say this, Chase Brown is a better
player for the Bengals than Joe Mixon and that's clear. Yes,
they're different styles. You know, Chase Brown style fits a
team that wants to throw the ball more than anybody
in football. Specifically the way he developed himself this offseason
into a better receiver, that's apparent. The fact that Luke
(29:10):
Gifford's wearing number fifty seven, had to try to chase
him around for nine seconds is the perfect example of that.
You're forcing these linebackers to have to chase Chase Brown.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Sorry about that, but you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
You're forcing them to do these things. That is why
they made this move. That is the reason, because that's
the type of team that they want to be.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
They want to be able to.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Get teams into that matchup consistently. And you've noticed they've
done that in tons of big spots. Now as they've
continued to get comfortable with Chase Brown, and not just
they're just anywhere they can get him. He's out here
on the outside running slants. They threw the go to
him the other day on.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Fourth and three.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
They're just trying to get Chase Brown isolated on a
linebacker that's their go to, even with everybody else healthy,
And you think about that and how they've come in
that regard. That's just a much better fit than somebody
who's gonna be you know, more of a pounding need
to be in there and has to get twenty twenty
five carries, and that's where they make their money and
(30:12):
make their impact, like Mix, and that's no discounting Mix,
and you've seen what he can do still in Houston.
It's just a different style of ball that makes more sense,
and you're seeing that just come to fruition.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
And then some for them.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I don't think even if you gave him truths here
him even they couldn't have seen Chase Brown developing the
way that he has to become this central of a
figure because the unknowns were one before entering the season.
The unknown was his receiving ability, but it certainly was
his ability to help in pass pro and to show
a lot of awareness there and he's been really good
at that and that's why he wasn't playing more over
(30:47):
Zach Moss in the first place was because it wasn't
that they didn't think he could do it, He just
hadn't really done it. So why take that chance when
you had everything else going on? Now You're like, man,
you wish they would have gone to Chase Brown earlier.
How many more wins would that have given him?
Speaker 4 (31:00):
No question, he seems like a guy who never screws up.
Not that every play is a positive, but but you
know what I mean, Like it just it seems like
he seems like a guy who always knows what his
assignment is, who is supposed to block, what his route
is supposed to be, where the running play is supposed
to go. Like I've watched this for long enough, I
think you could identify those guys. He's obviously got great
(31:23):
athletic ability, but he just he seems like a really
smart player.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yes, well, he played a lot of football. I mean
the amount of we you know, I.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Felt it was almost a detraction on his scouting report
when he came out because of the sheer volume of
carries that he had. But he played a ton of football,
just situational football, understanding the game, learning from stuff that's
gone on. That shows And I mean I remember scouts
talking to me but before the Bengals even took them
and being like this, talking about him and his and
(31:54):
his brother Sidney who ended up in Philadelphia, being like this,
these guys like these are really solid people, like they
are reliable, they are consistent. They're the type of people
you want to build around from personality, perspective, culture stuff.
And I think that shows through. I mean that has
shown since the moment Chase. I mean, take just take
(32:15):
what I mentioned before, what he did this offseason. I mean,
I Drew Lieberman, the wide receiver coach I wrote a
story about with him and Andre down there, say he's
never seen anything like it, Like the dedication that him
and Andre both had to that is what made the
difference in them both making the strides that they did.
Where they were he was in Vegas doing stuff for
(32:35):
some other client, and they said, all.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Right, well we'll fly to Vegas. They can just go
work out.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
They didn't go to the strip. They just wanted to
get their workouts in with him. So they went there
and they did their work there. They were never gonna
miss They spent all the time there. And it pays
on when you get people that it matters too, Like
that and have that next level you can get results
in production and the type of personality that you're talking
about there where you just feel like never messes up.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
So that little soliloquy about Chase Brown keeps us from
having to talk about how I would rather pour wing
sauce into my eyeballs than watch the two starting guards anymore.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
You might not have to, Hey, would you? So your team?
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Are you team stupor I'm team anybody? Okay, okay, I'm
team put a refrigerator there? Whatever?
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Are you team Matt Lee to center? No, I had
Carris to guards.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
I'm team feeling bad for Ted Carris who has to
look to one side and go, okay, I gotta help him,
And then wait a minute, I might have to go
help him, like what are we doing?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
But hey, but then you wouldn't be able to see
as much of the Joe Burrow magic as you get
to see, because when you have one quick turnstile that
happens all of a sudden, you get to see all
the cool moves he makes before it throws.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Thus and then when I see him get carted off,
that'll be a lot of fun too, all right, Read
Paul Tanner Junior's work in the Athletic dot com. Catch
the podcast. It's called The Growler. Today's episode balls Don't Lie.
Go get that, as we say, where you get your podcasts. Uh,
we're not doing this next Tuesday. So have a great Christmas.
Awesome you do the same, body, all right. We're at
Buffalo Wild Wings, Milford here till six o'clock giving away
(34:00):
Bengals Browns tickets on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports take
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Cincinnati's
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