December 30, 2025 • 40 mins
Mo & Paul Discuss the Cody Ford Game, Fossils and should Joe Burrow play against the Cleveland Browns.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fifteen thirty, Cincinnati's sports station.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hi, what's up. Good afternoon, I'm Onleggar. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty. Thank you so much for listening. Hopefully you're
having an awesome Tuesday, the second to last day of
twenty twenty five. No better place to celebrate the new
year than right here at Oakley Greens, where we've been
every Tuesday since August. We were here when it was hot,
(00:25):
We're here when it's cold. It's warm inside, it's festive.
Great place to post up on New Year's Eve. An
awesome place for the college football Playoff, the upcoming NFL Playoffs.
Important NFL games this weekend. Also Bengals, Browns, college basketball,
the Liberty Bowl, you name it, you can watch it
here at Oakley Greens.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
The staff here is awesome.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
They have been so hospitable to us, and so many
events happening throughout the course of twenty twenty six here
at Oakley Greens. I just talked to a gentleman a
few minutes ago who had not been here before, and
this is his first Oakley Greens experience, and he called
it life changing. So change your life. Come to Oakley Greens.
We are here till six o'clock. We we have just
(01:08):
a boatload of stuff to get to today. Our friend
Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and the Growlar podcast
is here.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
How you doing, I'm doing great. How are you wonderful? Yeah?
Feel like we just talked. We did just talk.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
We just just recorded a whole other podcast did but
we left a lot of topics on the table, A
lot of topics, topics, a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well there is we could spend an hour on Cody
Ford wide receiver. Could uh you know we we talked
about this on your podcast that when he was lined
up to catch a pass, I knew he was gonna catch,
because why would you have him line up there if
we're not going to throw it to him in the
game that's lopsided against an opponent that's quit. So he
catches the pass, and I instantly start thinking of you
(01:48):
and your your peers in the on the Bengals beat,
because it's I don't know what the story is if
the Cody Ford catch doesn't happen. Quite frankly right, the
catch and run by Cody Ford. Because they played a
similar game against Miami. It's not the last game of
the season, so you really can't write your official oh bit.
And then Zach Tech with this late Christmas gift for you,
(02:08):
putting Cody Ford on the field as a wide out
and he catches a pass and rumbles for twenty one yards.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
You can't beat you can't beat it, God bless him.
I will say that it was It was sort of
like the old journalism school days where you get you
give an assignment to the whole class on something that's
kind of weird and cookie out of nowhere and see
how everybody handles it. And everyone wrote, like, you know,
eight or ten different versions of kind of the same
basic storyline.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Who can go? So I feel like Bengals figures kind
of got to be.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Like a little upperfessor sitting there reading through everybody's papers.
How they handle this was a little different, Oh this
is oh this person went this route. I thought it
was a fun, little, fun, little exercise for us to
liven up otherwise meaningless sunday.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
As somebody who has a friend who is a social
studies teacher and you know, you know, we'll go home
at a weekend and have to read like twenty five
papers on you know, the Civil War. I would imagine that.
That's what it was like for me as a reader.
It's what it was like. Your piece, of course.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Was the best. Obviously. You know, I appreciate you saying.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
There's Well for years now from from now, that'll be
known as the Cody.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Ford the Cody Ford Game. Yes, sure, sure it will.
I mean, why not. It's it's fun. It is fun,
like I I I do, I do enjoy. I thought
it was cool.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Joe Danoman had a a thing with Zach Taylor yesterday,
yes going through the play and he stopped and pointed out,
look at the sideline. All the players are like all
the way up on the line. No one's on the
bench because everyone's looking to see like they know what's
coming and they want to see see what happens.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And that was cool.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
I asked Dan Pitcher about something very much related to
this yesterday, and I see, you know, you guys have
not always been trick play, fun play type of people.
It certainly hasn't been like Ben Johnson has been in
Detroit and Chicago or whatever like is does this kind
of remind you because players were talking so much about
(04:00):
the excitement during the week when it was going in
how it kept practice, you know, both light and.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Have energy and bring that excitement.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
And I go back to like remembering you hear these
stories about the Sam Weis days when everybody couldn't wait
to show up on Wednesday to see what the new
weird thing they were gonna do this week could be,
And he said, you know, I think it kind of
was a good reminder for me of the secondary effects
that a play like that, just having one in the
(04:29):
in the books like that that week can can have
on a team in terms of energy, especially if you
are in the court the dog days of a season,
right or energy just feels low for whatever reason, as
it does during the course of a year, and you
want to do something to do something up, to spice
something up, to keep guys engaged and involved, something like that,
(04:49):
can't you know?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
His point was, we don't really feel a lot of
need to.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Do gadgets because like, why are we gonna take on
some risk when we could just go let Jamar and
t go do what they do. Have the time where
it's like it's just easier to let the guys who
are unbelievable do that rather than take on unnecessary risk
trying to accomplish the same goals, I understand, but I
thought it was an interesting response talking about secondary effects
of plays like this and maybe having a few more
(05:15):
of those that you dabble in over the course of
the year.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
My favorite part was the reaction of his teammates.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Yeah, easily so excited for it. For him and for that,
I mean, it was uh, it was, it was. It
was a fun moment and and I think that's just
part of it. Is kind of what this time of
year is. I mean, you just have to do stuff
like that to be fun. And I I I sort
of so.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
But see what I would do is I would expand
upon this and for the game this Sunday, everybody gets
a turn to play quarterback. Cody, Yeah, Cody, I want
to take some snaps. Yeah, Like I want to expand
upon this, like let's go grow empty the bag this week.
In fact, I would maybe play like the entire game.
(05:59):
What would happen if its team played the entire game
without a quarterback or just ran the wildcat?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Do we think Cody could play safety? I would rather
watch him than Geno Stone.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Although you know Geno Stone and I for these two years,
it's it's been a it's been a rocky relationship. Name
my dog after him. I'm gonna enjoy Sunday. Sunday is
gonna be Geno and I were. I want him to
have a good game, have a good game that or
just like blatantly just misstackles like try you know.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Well is it? You know you don't want to have
the fear?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
What if he has the greatest game of his life
and it's like I think we it's finally the light
came on.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Here we go, time to bring him back. Let's good,
that's right.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
So but what I would like to see them do
is decide, like, man, this gadget play thing is working,
and then spend the entire week just coming up with
ways to run offense.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Without a quarterback. Yeah yeah, let's see if that can
work out. That work out, which sounds better than the
concept of.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Because like here's how it works, okay, And I don't
believe in jinxes, but like, folks are feeling my man
Burrow's back, and you know what, if they could just
fix the defense, it all goes up in smoke. If
Miles Garrett breaks the sack record by destroying Joe Burrow,
let him get the sack record with I don't know
Todge Brooks at quarterback.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Yeah, that's that's true, Right, that's true. Yeah, sure have
have Todge Brooks throw like five. The whole first drive
is just TODJ Brooks passes. Just no one will ever
see it coming.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
No, not at all. Absolutely, I'm all for it. I'm
not against it. Are you? Are you in the uh?
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Joe Burrow can go ahead and take a vacation now camp, Yes,
yeah I had.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I would have had no issue with them not having
them play once. The game's got meaningless, right, the Miami game.
But but I understood it, like I get it. Guy
wants to play. There are three games to go. Fine,
but okay, he got his reward for coming back, which
is he got a chance to play and show what
he can do and are there down the road benefits
(07:57):
to him coming up, coming back and playing in those games. Sure,
but like this one, this feels like Joe you got,
you got your chance, you got to come back. This
could not be more meaningless. We got a guy going
for the sack record. It's probably the best. You know,
Zach Taylor talked about him in extraordinarily glowing terms and understandably,
so let's let this dude, Zach Jake Browning or Joe
Flacco or Drew Plitt or whoever the hell they want
(08:20):
to have played quarterback.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
I am Joe, welcome back. It's good to have you back.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
You played, you did your thing, you bought some fossils,
go go to Tahiti or something.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
I feel like the coming back and having fun with
the guys.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Thing happened, did it? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Crew, you see where the offense is at. There's no
reason to go out there and do it one more
time in week team. And meanwhile, here's Joe Flacco, who
this team, the Browns just cast aside earlier this season,
who probably would take some enjoyment out of this, and
you're fine with him getting hit in the back by
Miles Garrett for the sack record.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Right, A little bit more?
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Sorry, Joe, I mean, but I mean, I just think
that's everybody's comfortable with that, and I just I feel
like we've seen it and I don't think.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Anybody needs to see it anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
I understand you're trying to quote unquote win every game,
but I just feel like, what was what this was supposed.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
To be about?
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Through In my mind and what we saw was just
about going out there and playing these There's no there's
no need for this week eighteen thing. You re established
the offense, you showed where you're at. Everybody's in a
great place with it.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
See yah.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, this is like you know, I go on a
spring training trip every year with friends of mine, and
and since I met my wife, I remember telling her, like,
I go on this trip every year. I'm gonna go
on this trip every year for the rest of my life.
And I was smart enough to establish those ground rules.
So as life is unfolded and we have a daughter
and responsibilities, like early March, late Feb I go to
(09:58):
spring training and she's cool with that.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
She's awesome.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
One year, I said like, hey, we're gonna add a
Vegas component, and she's like, do you have to?
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Like, well, I don't have to.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
She's like, so you're gonna go to spring training, how
about not the Vegas thing? And that's kind of how
I feel.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
About this game.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
For Joe Burrow got a chance to playing a couple
of games. You got sacked a few times. That was
an awesome watching Klays Campbell throw you around like a
rag doll.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Uh, You're good. Do you have to play against the Browns?
I guess I don't have to cool, so don't? Yes?
Maybe maybe you don't.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
Yeah, I mean was everybody I assumed everybody that was
at the game was doing the same, muttering under their
breathes as Burrow was laying on the ground being thrown down.
Please get up, pace, get up, Please get up. Yes, nobody,
nobody wants that. Nobody wants to see that happen. No
one wants to see the five seconds after Miles Garrett
(10:48):
pops back up and the carcass of Joe Burrow's laying
on the ground and wondering what's gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
As somebody who has gone out of his way to
make things in his life overly complex, way too often,
what the Bengals have in front of him this offseason,
it's not easy, but it's also not that complex.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Fix the defense, right, Fix the defense.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Now, that's not to say that they will or can
or will to the degree that it will put him
in the championship conversation, But like the objective for this
team is very very clear. Fix the defense and that
offense we've seen the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
It's gonna be good enough. You should be back in
the hunt.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Don't complicate the offseason by putting Joe Burrow at risk.
And then you walk out of the last game of
the season going into your off season, and suddenly there's
a Joe Burrow question. Well, like, don't it's needless, it's pointless.
Don't have him playing.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Yeah, and I understand the organizational philosophy whatever.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I understand. Yeah, this is what exists is.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
Yeah, they play to win every game no matter what.
They don't ever want to feel like they're not well.
The preseason exists, and right, that's that's fine too. I
just I just feel like everything that was supposed to
be proven by Burrow coming back has been proven. We've
seen it. It's okay. He wanted to play in the preseason.
He played the first two game, he didn't play it third.
You know, there's no reason to go do the third.
(12:11):
This is the third preseason game. He didn't play every
snap of the preseason. Actually not, Joe, you're gonna play
in these these handful of series.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Okay, cool?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Good, Like, I don't see why you can't have just
a mutual understanding so that that, to me is the
only thing that's interesting about Sunday is that yeah, well, well,
well something happened that completely changes how we talk about
this off season. And if nothing does, then how we
talk about this offseason hopefully involves no protracted contract disputes,
(12:41):
no sideshow soap operas, and an off season that's all
about devoting a ton of time, energy, money, and resources
to a defense.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
You do not want to add any more variables to it.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Yes, people are already concerned about the simplicity of this
being too complicated, right, and he's like, Okay, this shouldn't
be too hard. Let's not add a Okay, what's happening
in another rehab situation?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Nobody nobody wants that. I'm with you.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
That's where I sit with it. I that would be
my call. I understand it doesn't appear to be theirs.
I understand that they just feel like they want to
put value on every game, and Joe wants to play
and and there's maybe there's something too. Okay, let's see
how this offense is playing so good looks against a
maybe the best defense so in the North, I'm I'm
(13:30):
just I'm speaking and like, okay, maybe there's.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Did you watch the first game of the season. Remember
bad matchup. No, they can't play against the Browns. They
got sticky corners and they got Miles Like we saw
them play against they can't Like they won that game.
And everybody's like, look, you're just gonna have to understand
they can't play offense against the Browns. So now we're
gonna have them try to play offense against the Browns
in the game.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
That doesn't mean anything. What are we doing?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Go back to Week one? All anybody said is can't
do it. It just it's a bad match up. Okay, it's
a bad matchup Week one. It's a bad matchup week
Show how far you've come?
Speaker 4 (14:01):
I mean, how much better you feel about the offensive
line and the offense as a whole.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Uh? You know?
Speaker 4 (14:06):
And you if you go, if you go into the
offseason and now you you did it. You ran up
thirty points on on the best defense in the North,
one of the best defenses in football, coming off with
Maybe maybe they're that's what that's Maybe they they kept
Miles Garrett from getting the sack record.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Maybe maybe you're now you're feeling even better? Right?
Speaker 5 (14:24):
No?
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Is that it? No? Not really?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
I I feel pretty good about not where the Bengals
are right now. But I there are some off seasons
where it feels like the to do list is really lengthy,
and there's lots of different things that's not that lengthy.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Fix the defense, don't don't add another box unchecked, and
when you click the fix the Defense tab and a
whole bunch of other tabs open up, and.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yeah, a lot, a lot. Yeah, just fix the defense
and that's it. Yeah, don't hit the drop down on
fix the defense.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I don't want to have to call it doctor next
week and go Okay, can can Joe be ready for
training camp?
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Is Joe? Is his ability to play the first game
gonna be threatened? Like?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Who's plan is Flacco? Does he have to prepare him?
Like he's I don't just have him not play. I
wouldn't even have him go to the game. I wouldn't
even have him in the country. Like, I just know
where you want to go?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Right? Is there another met galer or something?
Speaker 4 (15:16):
No, I'm sure go on like an archaeological dive, right,
like a big dig somewhere.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
It's gotta be something like that going on.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I want to talk about, not Joe Burrow buying presence
for his offensive lineman, but who should also buy presents
for Joe Burrow's offensive lineman.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
When we come back, We're at Oakley Greens.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Paul Danner Juniors here at the Athletic dot com covering
the Bengals as well as the Growler podcast on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
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(16:05):
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Speaker 3 (16:17):
This report is sponsored by AUDI twenty five. After three
word Oakley Greens. This is esd F fifteen thirty. Thank
you so much for joining us. It's our last show
of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
No better place to celebrate New Year's Eve and more
than Oakley Green's Paul Danner Junior is here. You and
I discussed this a little bit on the Growler podcast today.
So Joe Burrow buys fossils for Bengals offensive line, which
is cool.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah, Meat, I think.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Duke Tobin should buy the offensive line presence for Christmas.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yeah, because he's made his job this offseason easier. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Well, I mean he he did draft and sign some
of these guys, sure, right, yeah, and so maybe maybe
he gives himself a gift.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
So I.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Mean twenty twenty six mode as I think most fans
are sure. I think for twenty twenty six, the two
most important developments are one that you and I talked
about and you wrote about extensively last week. The ascension
maybe slower than we would like. Ascension though of the
twenty twenty three class, because there's a lot of guys
you want to be there next year. Maybe beyond The
(17:31):
other thing is the offensive line's good. Yeah, like they
I don't know what PFF's overall grades or rankings are.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
I care, but not that much. They're not great.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
They're not the twenty fifteen offensive line. They have players
who need to get better with more experience.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
But it's a pretty good offensive line.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Yeah, it's got a high floor where you have you
don't have what were the old, the old no donkeys
line that we used forever. Yeah, just don't have the
one hole that just gets exploited. They don't have that right.
They feel solid at the very least everywhere. Amarus Mims
has taken the step like what's happened with him? It's
(18:13):
interesting I wrote about him and it'll be up tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Is that over? Since Joe Burrow has come back.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
You've seen Amarus Mims. I think the progress that he
was making during over the course of the year was
a little bit hidden in some of the challenges of
protecting for Flacco and when the offense is a mess
with Browning, And when Burrow came back, it's like everything
is snapped into place and you see it much clearer.
(18:40):
Joe Burrow has not been touched due to a Marius
Mims according to PFF, no.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Hits, no sacks. When memes is out there, I mean,
and they have been awesome.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
And then you saw it clear as day when he
had to go out for those series, a couple of series,
all of a sudden, it felt like everything was kind
of falling apart. You know that that was when the
Saxon and the struggle was happening, and it made it
that much clearer. We were talking with Zach Taylor and
went Damn Pitcher about this a little bit yesterday and
(19:11):
Pitch said, look, I mean, he has the ability to
be the best in the world at what he does,
and he's moving in that direction, like you see it.
This is what you've seen over the last five weeks
since Joe has come back, has really been the accumulation
of a lot of nice steps, and all of a sudden,
it feels like it's really taking off and they're leaving him.
(19:32):
It's not just their words. I mean they're leaving him
out there on an island a lot more. They're just
no matter who's over there, they trust Amarus to take
care of business. If there's help happening on an edge,
it's going to Orlando at this point, like they are
viewing him as the just eraser over there.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Every snap he plays looks the same, Yeah, I mean
it does every snap he plays.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
I'm not gonna pretend that I watched right tackle.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Play exclusively, but what I do like, every every snap
looks the same.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Yeah, he's just so big it's so hard for anybody
to really get around him. Yeah, and he does this
and this was I remember this during his draft season
after he was picked, and you know the same time,
we were talking about these big, long guys they can
just demoralize and end and I feel like he just
demoralizes guys that have to keep trying over and over
(20:23):
again to run into a brick wall and not be
able to go around it. And his ability to now
you know, understand and recognize what guys are trying to
do to him. This is what Zach Taylor focused on
yesterday was that that's such a huge step. Whereas before, yeah,
guys would try a lot of the same moves, but
they could get him because he didn't always he didn't
(20:44):
quite know what was coming. Now he sees the twists,
he sees the stunts. He's got a pretty good relationship
going with Dalton Reisner. He understands what edges what are
going to try to do to him, and how to
protect that and how to see it coming. And when
you do that, when you now get him where his
recognition game is catching up to his traits, that's how
you end up with a guy who literally could be
(21:05):
as good as anybody in football doing it. If he
continues on this path, that's encouraging. When you have that,
and then you can direct your help elsewhere. It really
accentuates everything even more. So you have a high floor,
and you have one at least one player with a
really high ceiling, veterans, continuity, good chemistry is.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
In that room. Everything about it has really come together.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
And if you would have told me that after the
first month of the season and that looked like a
train wreck, I would have said, there's just absolutely no shot.
So yeah, certainly a top development of this entire season
is what has happened.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
So the strike technique has worked as much as I
made fun I guess I don't is that it I
don't know.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
I think there I legitimately, I do think, especially at
that position, there is something too. Chemistry and guys really
liking each other and playing next to each other and
being good communicators is more important there than anywhere else
on the field. It really is kind of a one
group thing, and they have that. They felt very disjointed
(22:08):
at the end of last year. They felt disconnected and
frustrated and angry, and I think that I don't know
if it's the strike technique or just generally people seem
happier in the room. But it does feel like that
has gone a long way to help everybody play a
little bit better.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I do worry.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
You know, their death has been offensive Line depth is
tested almost every year. Hasn't been tested that much this year, No,
And so like you think about things that rarely carry
over from one year to the next, offensive line health,
And there's a part of me that does worry, like
and they stunk this year. Their offensive line was good
and intact, and I wonder about the intact part kind
(22:51):
of falling apart next season, because that year to year
is what tends to I think they would like to
have basically the same group that's in there back next year.
And then, to me, the perfect thing that's happening next
is is is what what's gonna happen with Orlando Brown?
You know, he's entering the last year of his contract
next year.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
He's played fine, he would I'm sure he would admit
this hasn't been his best season. Yes, if you're watching
a player starting to think about think about is this
what's gonna happen next year? Is it going to be
another step down. Is it going to be a bounce back?
Is this who he is now? I think you got
to think about that. But I also think that they're
happy with who he is in this group, and I
(23:32):
don't think that they're willing to add that to their
offseason list to save, even though it would be a
substantial cap saving and still be I don't see that
being the direction want to go. I think they have
the same thing back, But I think you could drop
in a first, second, or third round pick that's a
potential tackle.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Of the future. Who's a they need a swing tackle,
like nobody's business.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Who could be somebody maybe it's a developmental guy, whatever
it is, but somebody who could go in the background there,
maybe somebody who could play guard if they had an
issue there could maybe catch a couple of different spots
and then if that goes well, is perhaps your answer.
And I know everyone's like, oh, here we go, Cedric
obway he again or whatever, But you have to think
(24:13):
that the man's contract is actually up at the end
of next year, so you have to think about what
that looks like on a number of different levels. So
you're either extending him or signing him. Maybe you're signing
him back as a free agent. There's options there, but
I think one of them probably has to be a
pick ending up in the background as you're swinging.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
But when is and it's probably the old way he
Jake Fisher year. When is the last time that the
most pressing question about the offensive line was who's gonna play?
Down the road? Every other year it's who's gonna play?
Can this went left?
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Not? Really? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I mean a Maria can he play right now? Dylan
Farreshaw can he play right now? I mean Joona Williams?
Can he play right now?
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Hell? Billy Price? Can he? If your biggest.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Offensive line question is can can we groom this guy
to be the left tackle or right tackle? If you
move with Marius mems in twenty twenty seven? Awesome, Yeah,
Like that's never not going to be a thing. There's
always there's You're always going to be looking down the
road on the offensive line. If your offensive line is good,
that's where I want it to be.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Yeah, And exactly you were mentioning the left right thing
was sparked this in the sense I get is that
you know, I think they like mems right like he's
not moving. I get to say that's where they want
him to be because they can only pay him like
a right tackle. Then why don't get I think you
look at tell me you tell me you look at
the list of the guys that predominantly rush off the
(25:34):
against the right tackle and the left tackle, and tell
me what's the harder group.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
I mean, you're right, there's a lot.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Of the best guys coming off that side now that
that you'll see each year. I mean I would actually
maybe it's something I'll do at some point this offseason,
But I mean, I don't know that there's a huge difference.
You know, the whole blind side thing is a little
of rad and I'm certainly everyone that's been banging the
drum about Willie Anderson getting into the Hall of Fame
would suggest the same thing they've been saying with that
guard is that the blindside thing hasn't been as much
(26:02):
of a deal for a while now.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
But that said, I think, just you.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Got a guy who's great, an elite on that spot
and what he's doing, and you can you know you're
gonna have a lot of the best rushers coming off
that side anyway, why mess with it? And maybe there's
some scenarios where like they could only sign a guy
who's good at right and you'd consider it.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
But I just think it's like, let that be the thing.
Let that be it.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Let this guy be a great right tackle and that
means a lot so and things can change if Orlando
wasn't around, But for now, I think that's the best
way spot for him, and I think that's how they
view his feet.
Speaker 6 (26:37):
Would you want to fossil Yeah, yeah, I mean as
long as I'm not paying for it, right, yeah. I mean,
if it's gifted, I'll take it as a gift you
bring here, only a huge one, like I don't. I
heard I think Dylan Fairchild was on with on Pepper
Rally on Friday with with Dan and Lapp and mentioned
that he had gotten.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Like a shark tooth or like a tooth or something
like that or whatever it was. I would want the
biggest thing in the room. Give me the tusk, right,
like I want that on a wall. Huge. I don't.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
I don't want anything where it's like somebody in the corners,
Like I'm strictly doing it for someone to see it
when they walk in my house.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Why else am I doing?
Speaker 2 (27:15):
I just thinking if I bring a tusk call, my
wife is gonna be like, yeah, we're not We're not
putting out above the couch.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
I mean, you know, no, it's a man cave item. Sure, sure,
I mean that's not it's it's not above the mantle.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
It seemed to me the way I look at it
is if it's any sort of dinosaur fossil and yeah, right,
and then you have a weird people who like deny
the existence of dinosaurs that I can, you know, have
over my house to talk about my dinosaur fossil, you
know it. I would be like, if it's a dinosaur fossil,
that's what I want.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
Yeah, that's more so than a wooly mammoth or a
bear bear skull.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
I also am anti skull. I think skulls are creepy. Yeah,
even I I I'd rather just.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
I think I am. I'm a tusk guy.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
So or Lando Brown has gotten in his career slushy machine,
Rolex watch some luggage and uh, the the fossil of those.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Four which would be your preference? That's hard.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Slashing machine sounds good, but you have you're in charge
of all the slushy stuff.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I gotta make the slushy.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Yeah, now if I if there was I mean, if
there was slushy machine and someone who makes the slushies,
like an assistant like that, or or just a button
that instantly creates you're.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Like having to like restock the supplies of slushies. I
don't love that one, don't look, I don't want to
have to do any more work. I'd probably go fossil.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
I think as long as it was big and it
could be seen, I'm for that. With sword, I have
a sword, Yeah, I think the sword is probably the
coolest though, without question.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, the sword better than fossil, and I think any
other quarterback gift and.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I definitely don't need. I'm not I'm not like here
for the luggage and the I'm not in the watch.
I'm not a watch guy. I like watch guy. I
like so.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I wear a watch every single day, and I like
watches a Rolex. I cannot imagine wearing a watch that
expensive on my wrist and banging it against something or
if I just know I'm not cool enough in anything
else that I wish watch I'm wearing costs to be
able to like wear a rollleox it would be so
it's like you've seen the meme with like the sports
(29:23):
car under the beat up house in the car report, right,
that would be me wearing a Rolex.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
It makes no sense. Yes.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I used to work a show with Archrell Hawkins who
had some really really really nice watches, and he came
to me one day He's like, we're gonna up your
watch game, and I think I was wearing like a
like a Dakota Watch Company watch. So he like brings
in this book of watches. He's like, you got to
get one of these. I'm like, oh, those are really nice.
I'm like, you know, oh that one's eighty nine dollars
art Trail, Like, you know.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
That's not my game if I know your game?
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yes, yeah, like what's on the back page? Any fossil
watches on there?
Speaker 4 (30:00):
So it would have been really cool if he came
in and had a trench coat and just opened it
up and had all the watches inside of it, you know,
like straight out of the cartoons.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Yeah, you know. Butch Jones, when he would lose a game,
would go watch shopping. Is that what he would do?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
What he would do, he would he would comfort himself
by buying a really nice watch.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
I've heard I've heard stories about a lot of things
that put Jeff to do after losses.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Likewise and wins Uh.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
We're late twenty one away from four o'clock Paul Danner Junior,
The Athletic dot Com and The Growler Podcast. We're here
at Oakley CRE's on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Traffic from the uc Health Traffic Center from non invasive
to surgical treatments. The uc Health Backneck and Spine Center
offers every option to improve quality of life with convenient
locations across Greater Cincinnati and northern Kentucky. Learn more at
uc health dot com. Northbound Coal Raine remains closed down
(30:57):
due to an accident between round Top Road and Common Circle.
Police fire there on scene. Northbound seventy five at Tom Left.
Two lanes blocked from an accident at he'sund Like with traffic,
this reput is.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
ESPN Figeratt Oakley's Lanes and Oakley Paul Danner Juniors here
for another few minutes.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
You can read his work at the Athletic dot com.
You can catch the Growl of podcast.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I would imagine the most recent one has not been
dropped yet.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
No, it'll probably be ready for doople in the morning.
Post production post production process is happening as we speak,
when files are doing the like spinning thing.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Gotcha, the AFC North, the division the Bengals are in,
is still up for grabs. You've got this massive tilt
on a Sunday between the Ravens and Steelers.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Do you believe there will be negative fallout for the
head coach of the losing team on Sunday?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
I do not.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
No, no, not gonna move on from Mike Tomlin. No,
not gonna move on from John Harbaugh.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
No, okay, I mean I want the Steelers to keep Mike.
I think I don't understand.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Well, I'm with you. I would have said Tomlin. I
would have thought myself, they're in this rut with Tomlin.
Like clearly they're in this rut with Tomlin. But they're
pretty dedicated to him. I mean that's been apparent for
a long time, Like they and he. I mean, the
man does seem to He takes a team that you
(32:23):
think should win five games and gets them to win
nine every year. There's very much value in that. Like,
I'm for that, And if they can ever give them
a little bit more in terms of the offensive side
of the ball or at quarterback, then maybe he'd have
a chance to do something special. Again, I'm not saying that.
They just certainly don't seem like they have any interest
(32:44):
in moving on from Mike. And I don't see Mike
walking away from anything even if they lose, Like, I
just don't.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
I just don't see that.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
What do I what do I know exactly what's gonna happen,
But more than most I don't think. I just have
never gotten that when you hear how dedicated they are.
I don't see Tomlin all of a sudden walking away
from it because they lose one game, like he's not
gonna budge like that and start going and doing TV
or whatever like. And John Harbaugh isn't going anywhere. And
(33:12):
John Harbaugh has done a great job, He's had great teams.
One year, Lamar is struggling a little bit and they're
not winning as much, and all of a sudden, John
Harbaugh is not going to be a part of things,
right Like, I don't believe that for a second. So no,
I don't. I don't think. I think and in fact,
I think all four AFS and North coaches will be back.
Is gonna come back and clean?
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I don't know. I know he's under fire, but I
don't see him. I just think that they'll stick with him.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Yeah, I mean there's a lot of there's more smoke
than we've ever seen around Stefanski here, mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
But you know, I still I still feel it just.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Seems to me like the moment I'm the Browns fan,
but the moment they saddled him with Deshaun Watson, they
made his job almost impossible.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Yeah, the whole every I mean, what are they supposed
to be doing right now?
Speaker 3 (33:56):
What are they winning right with? With the With the
quarterback situation being what it is, you can have a
great defense. They don't have a quarterback or a lot
of receivers.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Right, Yeah, Well, so all four guys back in the
AFC North.
Speaker 4 (34:11):
I mean that'd be my bet Stefanski, with the being
the obvious, the one who would be.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Most would would Sunday. I know, you don't cover the Browns.
Would Sunday's game have any any bearing on that? I
don't think so.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
I think this this feels like one of these year
long battles that have been going on internally, you know,
and it's like whether they're either going to decide that
I'm okay with everything that you said, maybe when you
didn't mean some things and that I said, and that
we all felt about it, and we all either agree
on what the path forward should be, or you're gonna
(34:47):
say you don't agree with what the path forward should be.
Do you think anything to do with winning or losing
at the Bengals?
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Do you think it would be reasonable for Zach Taylor
and Kevin Stefanski to meet up before the game on
Sunday morning and agree to not throw a pass?
Speaker 3 (35:00):
So again, could just be over do it?
Speaker 4 (35:02):
You remember there's been a number of final preseason games. Well,
he felt like that was the agreement. Yes, Marvin Lewis
had a bunch of those where it was like did
they just run it like forty nine times? I feel
like that's the way to go six three final. It's
just I just keep her, get Chase Brown his thousand,
you know, and just keep right ongoing.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
I think if you're Zach Taylor, you call Kevin Stefanska
and go, hey, how would you like to be one
of two head coaches who coached in the shortest game ever,
right and have that bad boy like, let's let's try
to be at our like Zach says, like I want
to be at my house by four o'clock.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
I'm going safe game plan. There's no doubt about that.
I mean, if it's like, okay, if Joe's gonna play,
I certainly will not be calling any seven step drops
or long developing plays or anything that doesn't have three
people staring right at Myles Garrett.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Is there somebody playing their last game in a Bengals
uniform on Sunday that we aren't necessarily talking as much
about them playing the last game in a beform on Sunday,
Whether it be because they can walk as a free agent,
the team cuts, the guy decides he wants to go
do something else, anybody like that.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Bj Hill's the most interesting decision in that regard. I
think they there would be some they would save some money,
but it'd be a little more dead money than they
usually prefer to take on. But that said, he has
a two million dollars roster bonus on the fifth day
of the league year, which is always an indicator of
what's going to happen there. They're potentially going to be
(36:35):
looking for somebody to give you a little bit more
pass rush juice out of the three technique position. It's
not really what BJ has been doing. How much do
they view his injuries as part of what's happening. He's
only a year older. All of that I think plays
into Okay, are they trying to turn over leadership anyway?
So you're you're okay, just moving on? That could be
(36:57):
this could be that for him that maybe not all
to be are thinking about are talking about, because that'su
a position where they could upgrade with someone who is
must much more of a pass rusher than what that
BJ is. And and he's been you know, it's been
okay this year, but no, you know, it's it's like
it has to be better on the on the line
(37:18):
as a whole.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Talk about somebody who represents one of the best trades
they've ever made though. Absolutely, you know Billy Price, who
they were gonna cut anyway, and got a piece who
was a part of two teams in made AFC Championship
games and made the critical play in the game that
they won against Kansas City. Yeah, absolutely, what I mean
for all that has filled a fantastic girl to me,
the Bengals lost their way when they took him out
(37:40):
of the role. Like to me, when they started asking
him to be more. He was great as a rotational
guy in there, and everybody gets older and things change
or whatever. But like in that role when you give
him as a real one two punch and the problem
with that is Chris Jenkins hasn't developed. But when you
give him that and don't ask him.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
They asked him to play way too many snaps for
multiple years, way too many snaps, and I think when
you keep that number lower, it was always a you're
you're getting more with less, uh from from him, And
I think they too often asked him to do too
much and it took away I think a little bit
from what he's been later in his career. But yeah, still,
by every stretch, an unbelievable deal. It's like, man, why
(38:22):
can't you guys just try to throw away center for
a guy who's gonna be a defensive centerpiece for the
next five years all the time?
Speaker 2 (38:28):
They should do that more. I've thought of the emotions.
I'll have one number twenty two jogs off the field
for the last time.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
Will you go down to where the they go in
the tunnel and ask for his gloves.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
I might, you know, I might.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Could you please throw me your gloves or and your
cleats and you're you know, all of it. Could you
imagine how big that would be if you could put
them on your dog?
Speaker 3 (38:47):
He'd miss I mean, you know, he'd throw the Yeah,
I know where you're going. I get it. I don't
know if there is an athlete.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I feel like I have complained about more yeah in
my career than Geno Stones.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Yeah, and he's only been here two years.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
You know, I think it's interesting here. He's a lovely man,
but they like a lot of what he has done.
Behind the scenes, I think they've looked when they felt
like there aren't a lot of people that seem to
care very much, right.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Or at least that was certainly a part of the problem.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
At one point this year, he always felt like somebody
who did care does care, does try to make things
work for the better. I think off the field, his
presence has been good. The problem is he is largely
paid for what you do on the field, and that
has not been TOOKO. No, we'll talk to you next year.
(39:39):
Thank you as always looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Thanks for Paul Danner Junior Rita's work Theathletic dot com,
catch the Growler podcast on YouTube, among other places. We're
here at Oakley Greens till six o'clock. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 5 (40:00):
From the uc Health Traffic Center. From non invasive to
surgical treatments, The uc Health Backneck and Spine Center offers
every option to improve quality of life with convenient locations
across Greater Cincinnati and northern Kentucky. Learn more at UCHealth
dot com. Northbound Coal Raine remains closed down due to
an accident between round Top Road and Common Circle. Police
(40:24):
fire there on scene. Northbound seventy five at Town left
two lanes blocked from an accident. I met Exelic with traffic.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
This report is sponsored by
Fifteen thirty, Cincinnati's sports station.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hi, what's up. Good afternoon, I'm Onleggar. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty. Thank you so much for listening. Hopefully you're
having an awesome Tuesday, the second to last day of
twenty twenty five. No better place to celebrate the new
year than right here at Oakley Greens, where we've been
every Tuesday since August. We were here when it was hot,
(00:25):
We're here when it's cold. It's warm inside, it's festive.
Great place to post up on New Year's Eve. An
awesome place for the college football Playoff, the upcoming NFL Playoffs.
Important NFL games this weekend. Also Bengals, Browns, college basketball,
the Liberty Bowl, you name it, you can watch it
here at Oakley Greens.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
The staff here is awesome.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
They have been so hospitable to us, and so many
events happening throughout the course of twenty twenty six here
at Oakley Greens. I just talked to a gentleman a
few minutes ago who had not been here before, and
this is his first Oakley Greens experience, and he called
it life changing. So change your life. Come to Oakley Greens.
We are here till six o'clock. We we have just
(01:08):
a boatload of stuff to get to today. Our friend
Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and the Growlar podcast
is here.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
How you doing, I'm doing great. How are you wonderful? Yeah?
Feel like we just talked. We did just talk.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
We just just recorded a whole other podcast did but
we left a lot of topics on the table, A
lot of topics, topics, a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well there is we could spend an hour on Cody
Ford wide receiver. Could uh you know we we talked
about this on your podcast that when he was lined
up to catch a pass, I knew he was gonna catch,
because why would you have him line up there if
we're not going to throw it to him in the
game that's lopsided against an opponent that's quit. So he
catches the pass, and I instantly start thinking of you
(01:48):
and your your peers in the on the Bengals beat,
because it's I don't know what the story is if
the Cody Ford catch doesn't happen. Quite frankly right, the
catch and run by Cody Ford. Because they played a
similar game against Miami. It's not the last game of
the season, so you really can't write your official oh bit.
And then Zach Tech with this late Christmas gift for you,
(02:08):
putting Cody Ford on the field as a wide out
and he catches a pass and rumbles for twenty one yards.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
You can't beat you can't beat it, God bless him.
I will say that it was It was sort of
like the old journalism school days where you get you
give an assignment to the whole class on something that's
kind of weird and cookie out of nowhere and see
how everybody handles it. And everyone wrote, like, you know,
eight or ten different versions of kind of the same
basic storyline.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Who can go? So I feel like Bengals figures kind
of got to be.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Like a little upperfessor sitting there reading through everybody's papers.
How they handle this was a little different, Oh this
is oh this person went this route. I thought it
was a fun, little, fun, little exercise for us to
liven up otherwise meaningless sunday.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
As somebody who has a friend who is a social
studies teacher and you know, you know, we'll go home
at a weekend and have to read like twenty five
papers on you know, the Civil War. I would imagine that.
That's what it was like for me as a reader.
It's what it was like. Your piece, of course.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Was the best. Obviously. You know, I appreciate you saying.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
There's Well for years now from from now, that'll be
known as the Cody.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Ford the Cody Ford Game. Yes, sure, sure it will.
I mean, why not. It's it's fun. It is fun,
like I I I do, I do enjoy. I thought
it was cool.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Joe Danoman had a a thing with Zach Taylor yesterday,
yes going through the play and he stopped and pointed out,
look at the sideline. All the players are like all
the way up on the line. No one's on the
bench because everyone's looking to see like they know what's
coming and they want to see see what happens.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And that was cool.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
I asked Dan Pitcher about something very much related to
this yesterday, and I see, you know, you guys have
not always been trick play, fun play type of people.
It certainly hasn't been like Ben Johnson has been in
Detroit and Chicago or whatever like is does this kind
of remind you because players were talking so much about
(04:00):
the excitement during the week when it was going in
how it kept practice, you know, both light and.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Have energy and bring that excitement.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
And I go back to like remembering you hear these
stories about the Sam Weis days when everybody couldn't wait
to show up on Wednesday to see what the new
weird thing they were gonna do this week could be,
And he said, you know, I think it kind of
was a good reminder for me of the secondary effects
that a play like that, just having one in the
(04:29):
in the books like that that week can can have
on a team in terms of energy, especially if you
are in the court the dog days of a season,
right or energy just feels low for whatever reason, as
it does during the course of a year, and you
want to do something to do something up, to spice
something up, to keep guys engaged and involved, something like that,
(04:49):
can't you know?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
His point was, we don't really feel a lot of
need to.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Do gadgets because like, why are we gonna take on
some risk when we could just go let Jamar and
t go do what they do. Have the time where
it's like it's just easier to let the guys who
are unbelievable do that rather than take on unnecessary risk
trying to accomplish the same goals, I understand, but I
thought it was an interesting response talking about secondary effects
of plays like this and maybe having a few more
(05:15):
of those that you dabble in over the course of
the year.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
My favorite part was the reaction of his teammates.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Yeah, easily so excited for it. For him and for that,
I mean, it was uh, it was, it was. It
was a fun moment and and I think that's just
part of it. Is kind of what this time of
year is. I mean, you just have to do stuff
like that to be fun. And I I I sort
of so.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
But see what I would do is I would expand
upon this and for the game this Sunday, everybody gets
a turn to play quarterback. Cody, Yeah, Cody, I want
to take some snaps. Yeah, Like I want to expand
upon this, like let's go grow empty the bag this week.
In fact, I would maybe play like the entire game.
(05:59):
What would happen if its team played the entire game
without a quarterback or just ran the wildcat?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Do we think Cody could play safety? I would rather
watch him than Geno Stone.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Although you know Geno Stone and I for these two years,
it's it's been a it's been a rocky relationship. Name
my dog after him. I'm gonna enjoy Sunday. Sunday is
gonna be Geno and I were. I want him to
have a good game, have a good game that or
just like blatantly just misstackles like try you know.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Well is it? You know you don't want to have
the fear?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
What if he has the greatest game of his life
and it's like I think we it's finally the light
came on.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Here we go, time to bring him back. Let's good,
that's right.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
So but what I would like to see them do
is decide, like, man, this gadget play thing is working,
and then spend the entire week just coming up with
ways to run offense.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Without a quarterback. Yeah yeah, let's see if that can
work out. That work out, which sounds better than the
concept of.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Because like here's how it works, okay, And I don't
believe in jinxes, but like, folks are feeling my man
Burrow's back, and you know what, if they could just
fix the defense, it all goes up in smoke. If
Miles Garrett breaks the sack record by destroying Joe Burrow,
let him get the sack record with I don't know
Todge Brooks at quarterback.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Yeah, that's that's true, Right, that's true. Yeah, sure have
have Todge Brooks throw like five. The whole first drive
is just TODJ Brooks passes. Just no one will ever
see it coming.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
No, not at all. Absolutely, I'm all for it. I'm
not against it. Are you? Are you in the uh?
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Joe Burrow can go ahead and take a vacation now camp, Yes,
yeah I had.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I would have had no issue with them not having
them play once. The game's got meaningless, right, the Miami game.
But but I understood it, like I get it. Guy
wants to play. There are three games to go. Fine,
but okay, he got his reward for coming back, which
is he got a chance to play and show what
he can do and are there down the road benefits
(07:57):
to him coming up, coming back and playing in those games. Sure,
but like this one, this feels like Joe you got,
you got your chance, you got to come back. This
could not be more meaningless. We got a guy going
for the sack record. It's probably the best. You know,
Zach Taylor talked about him in extraordinarily glowing terms and understandably,
so let's let this dude, Zach Jake Browning or Joe
Flacco or Drew Plitt or whoever the hell they want
(08:20):
to have played quarterback.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
I am Joe, welcome back. It's good to have you back.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
You played, you did your thing, you bought some fossils,
go go to Tahiti or something.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
I feel like the coming back and having fun with
the guys.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Thing happened, did it? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Crew, you see where the offense is at. There's no
reason to go out there and do it one more
time in week team. And meanwhile, here's Joe Flacco, who
this team, the Browns just cast aside earlier this season,
who probably would take some enjoyment out of this, and
you're fine with him getting hit in the back by
Miles Garrett for the sack record.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Right, A little bit more?
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Sorry, Joe, I mean, but I mean, I just think
that's everybody's comfortable with that, and I just I feel
like we've seen it and I don't think.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Anybody needs to see it anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
I understand you're trying to quote unquote win every game,
but I just feel like, what was what this was supposed.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
To be about?
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Through In my mind and what we saw was just
about going out there and playing these There's no there's
no need for this week eighteen thing. You re established
the offense, you showed where you're at. Everybody's in a
great place with it.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
See yah.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, this is like you know, I go on a
spring training trip every year with friends of mine, and
and since I met my wife, I remember telling her, like,
I go on this trip every year. I'm gonna go
on this trip every year for the rest of my life.
And I was smart enough to establish those ground rules.
So as life is unfolded and we have a daughter
and responsibilities, like early March, late Feb I go to
(09:58):
spring training and she's cool with that.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
She's awesome.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
One year, I said like, hey, we're gonna add a
Vegas component, and she's like, do you have to?
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Like, well, I don't have to.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
She's like, so you're gonna go to spring training, how
about not the Vegas thing? And that's kind of how
I feel.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
About this game.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
For Joe Burrow got a chance to playing a couple
of games. You got sacked a few times. That was
an awesome watching Klays Campbell throw you around like a
rag doll.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Uh, You're good. Do you have to play against the Browns?
I guess I don't have to cool, so don't? Yes?
Maybe maybe you don't.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
Yeah, I mean was everybody I assumed everybody that was
at the game was doing the same, muttering under their
breathes as Burrow was laying on the ground being thrown down.
Please get up, pace, get up, Please get up. Yes, nobody,
nobody wants that. Nobody wants to see that happen. No
one wants to see the five seconds after Miles Garrett
(10:48):
pops back up and the carcass of Joe Burrow's laying
on the ground and wondering what's gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
As somebody who has gone out of his way to
make things in his life overly complex, way too often,
what the Bengals have in front of him this offseason,
it's not easy, but it's also not that complex.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Fix the defense, right, Fix the defense.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Now, that's not to say that they will or can
or will to the degree that it will put him
in the championship conversation, But like the objective for this
team is very very clear. Fix the defense and that
offense we've seen the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
It's gonna be good enough. You should be back in
the hunt.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Don't complicate the offseason by putting Joe Burrow at risk.
And then you walk out of the last game of
the season going into your off season, and suddenly there's
a Joe Burrow question. Well, like, don't it's needless, it's pointless.
Don't have him playing.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Yeah, and I understand the organizational philosophy whatever.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I understand. Yeah, this is what exists is.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
Yeah, they play to win every game no matter what.
They don't ever want to feel like they're not well.
The preseason exists, and right, that's that's fine too. I
just I just feel like everything that was supposed to
be proven by Burrow coming back has been proven. We've
seen it. It's okay. He wanted to play in the preseason.
He played the first two game, he didn't play it third.
You know, there's no reason to go do the third.
(12:11):
This is the third preseason game. He didn't play every
snap of the preseason. Actually not, Joe, you're gonna play
in these these handful of series.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Okay, cool?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Good, Like, I don't see why you can't have just
a mutual understanding so that that, to me is the
only thing that's interesting about Sunday is that yeah, well, well,
well something happened that completely changes how we talk about
this off season. And if nothing does, then how we
talk about this offseason hopefully involves no protracted contract disputes,
(12:41):
no sideshow soap operas, and an off season that's all
about devoting a ton of time, energy, money, and resources
to a defense.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
You do not want to add any more variables to it.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Yes, people are already concerned about the simplicity of this
being too complicated, right, and he's like, Okay, this shouldn't
be too hard. Let's not add a Okay, what's happening
in another rehab situation?
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Nobody nobody wants that. I'm with you.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
That's where I sit with it. I that would be
my call. I understand it doesn't appear to be theirs.
I understand that they just feel like they want to
put value on every game, and Joe wants to play
and and there's maybe there's something too. Okay, let's see
how this offense is playing so good looks against a
maybe the best defense so in the North, I'm I'm
(13:30):
just I'm speaking and like, okay, maybe there's.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Did you watch the first game of the season. Remember
bad matchup. No, they can't play against the Browns. They
got sticky corners and they got Miles Like we saw
them play against they can't Like they won that game.
And everybody's like, look, you're just gonna have to understand
they can't play offense against the Browns. So now we're
gonna have them try to play offense against the Browns
in the game.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
That doesn't mean anything. What are we doing?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Go back to Week one? All anybody said is can't
do it. It just it's a bad match up. Okay, it's
a bad matchup Week one. It's a bad matchup week
Show how far you've come?
Speaker 4 (14:01):
I mean, how much better you feel about the offensive
line and the offense as a whole.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Uh? You know?
Speaker 4 (14:06):
And you if you go, if you go into the
offseason and now you you did it. You ran up
thirty points on on the best defense in the North,
one of the best defenses in football, coming off with
Maybe maybe they're that's what that's Maybe they they kept
Miles Garrett from getting the sack record.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Maybe maybe you're now you're feeling even better? Right?
Speaker 5 (14:24):
No?
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Is that it? No? Not really?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
I I feel pretty good about not where the Bengals
are right now. But I there are some off seasons
where it feels like the to do list is really lengthy,
and there's lots of different things that's not that lengthy.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Fix the defense, don't don't add another box unchecked, and
when you click the fix the Defense tab and a
whole bunch of other tabs open up, and.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yeah, a lot, a lot. Yeah, just fix the defense
and that's it. Yeah, don't hit the drop down on
fix the defense.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I don't want to have to call it doctor next
week and go Okay, can can Joe be ready for
training camp?
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Is Joe? Is his ability to play the first game
gonna be threatened? Like?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Who's plan is Flacco? Does he have to prepare him?
Like he's I don't just have him not play. I
wouldn't even have him go to the game. I wouldn't
even have him in the country. Like, I just know
where you want to go?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Right? Is there another met galer or something?
Speaker 4 (15:16):
No, I'm sure go on like an archaeological dive, right,
like a big dig somewhere.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
It's gotta be something like that going on.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I want to talk about, not Joe Burrow buying presence
for his offensive lineman, but who should also buy presents
for Joe Burrow's offensive lineman.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
When we come back, We're at Oakley Greens.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Paul Danner Juniors here at the Athletic dot com covering
the Bengals as well as the Growler podcast on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
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(16:05):
due to an accident. That's between round Top Road and
Common Circles found on State Route twenty eight. It's an
accident between Cedar Lake Lane and Smith Road. I'm at
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Speaker 3 (16:17):
This report is sponsored by AUDI twenty five. After three
word Oakley Greens. This is esd F fifteen thirty. Thank
you so much for joining us. It's our last show
of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
No better place to celebrate New Year's Eve and more
than Oakley Green's Paul Danner Junior is here. You and
I discussed this a little bit on the Growler podcast today.
So Joe Burrow buys fossils for Bengals offensive line, which
is cool.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah, Meat, I think.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Duke Tobin should buy the offensive line presence for Christmas.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yeah, because he's made his job this offseason easier. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Well, I mean he he did draft and sign some
of these guys, sure, right, yeah, and so maybe maybe
he gives himself a gift.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
So I.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Mean twenty twenty six mode as I think most fans
are sure. I think for twenty twenty six, the two
most important developments are one that you and I talked
about and you wrote about extensively last week. The ascension
maybe slower than we would like. Ascension though of the
twenty twenty three class, because there's a lot of guys
you want to be there next year. Maybe beyond The
(17:31):
other thing is the offensive line's good. Yeah, like they
I don't know what PFF's overall grades or rankings are.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
I care, but not that much. They're not great.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
They're not the twenty fifteen offensive line. They have players
who need to get better with more experience.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
But it's a pretty good offensive line.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Yeah, it's got a high floor where you have you
don't have what were the old, the old no donkeys
line that we used forever. Yeah, just don't have the
one hole that just gets exploited. They don't have that right.
They feel solid at the very least everywhere. Amarus Mims
has taken the step like what's happened with him? It's
(18:13):
interesting I wrote about him and it'll be up tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Is that over? Since Joe Burrow has come back.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
You've seen Amarus Mims. I think the progress that he
was making during over the course of the year was
a little bit hidden in some of the challenges of
protecting for Flacco and when the offense is a mess
with Browning, And when Burrow came back, it's like everything
is snapped into place and you see it much clearer.
(18:40):
Joe Burrow has not been touched due to a Marius
Mims according to PFF, no.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Hits, no sacks. When memes is out there, I mean,
and they have been awesome.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
And then you saw it clear as day when he
had to go out for those series, a couple of series,
all of a sudden, it felt like everything was kind
of falling apart. You know that that was when the
Saxon and the struggle was happening, and it made it
that much clearer. We were talking with Zach Taylor and
went Damn Pitcher about this a little bit yesterday and
(19:11):
Pitch said, look, I mean, he has the ability to
be the best in the world at what he does,
and he's moving in that direction, like you see it.
This is what you've seen over the last five weeks
since Joe has come back, has really been the accumulation
of a lot of nice steps, and all of a sudden,
it feels like it's really taking off and they're leaving him.
(19:32):
It's not just their words. I mean they're leaving him
out there on an island a lot more. They're just
no matter who's over there, they trust Amarus to take
care of business. If there's help happening on an edge,
it's going to Orlando at this point, like they are
viewing him as the just eraser over there.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Every snap he plays looks the same, Yeah, I mean
it does every snap he plays.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
I'm not gonna pretend that I watched right tackle.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Play exclusively, but what I do like, every every snap
looks the same.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Yeah, he's just so big it's so hard for anybody
to really get around him. Yeah, and he does this
and this was I remember this during his draft season
after he was picked, and you know the same time,
we were talking about these big, long guys they can
just demoralize and end and I feel like he just
demoralizes guys that have to keep trying over and over
(20:23):
again to run into a brick wall and not be
able to go around it. And his ability to now
you know, understand and recognize what guys are trying to
do to him. This is what Zach Taylor focused on
yesterday was that that's such a huge step. Whereas before, yeah,
guys would try a lot of the same moves, but
they could get him because he didn't always he didn't
(20:44):
quite know what was coming. Now he sees the twists,
he sees the stunts. He's got a pretty good relationship
going with Dalton Reisner. He understands what edges what are
going to try to do to him, and how to
protect that and how to see it coming. And when
you do that, when you now get him where his
recognition game is catching up to his traits, that's how
you end up with a guy who literally could be
(21:05):
as good as anybody in football doing it. If he
continues on this path, that's encouraging. When you have that,
and then you can direct your help elsewhere. It really
accentuates everything even more. So you have a high floor,
and you have one at least one player with a
really high ceiling, veterans, continuity, good chemistry is.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
In that room. Everything about it has really come together.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
And if you would have told me that after the
first month of the season and that looked like a
train wreck, I would have said, there's just absolutely no shot.
So yeah, certainly a top development of this entire season
is what has happened.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
So the strike technique has worked as much as I
made fun I guess I don't is that it I
don't know.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
I think there I legitimately, I do think, especially at
that position, there is something too. Chemistry and guys really
liking each other and playing next to each other and
being good communicators is more important there than anywhere else
on the field. It really is kind of a one
group thing, and they have that. They felt very disjointed
(22:08):
at the end of last year. They felt disconnected and
frustrated and angry, and I think that I don't know
if it's the strike technique or just generally people seem
happier in the room. But it does feel like that
has gone a long way to help everybody play a
little bit better.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I do worry.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
You know, their death has been offensive Line depth is
tested almost every year. Hasn't been tested that much this year, No,
And so like you think about things that rarely carry
over from one year to the next, offensive line health,
And there's a part of me that does worry, like
and they stunk this year. Their offensive line was good
and intact, and I wonder about the intact part kind
(22:51):
of falling apart next season, because that year to year
is what tends to I think they would like to
have basically the same group that's in there back next year.
And then, to me, the perfect thing that's happening next
is is is what what's gonna happen with Orlando Brown?
You know, he's entering the last year of his contract
next year.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
He's played fine, he would I'm sure he would admit
this hasn't been his best season. Yes, if you're watching
a player starting to think about think about is this
what's gonna happen next year? Is it going to be
another step down. Is it going to be a bounce back?
Is this who he is now? I think you got
to think about that. But I also think that they're
happy with who he is in this group, and I
(23:32):
don't think that they're willing to add that to their
offseason list to save, even though it would be a
substantial cap saving and still be I don't see that
being the direction want to go. I think they have
the same thing back, But I think you could drop
in a first, second, or third round pick that's a
potential tackle.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Of the future. Who's a they need a swing tackle,
like nobody's business.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Who could be somebody maybe it's a developmental guy, whatever
it is, but somebody who could go in the background there,
maybe somebody who could play guard if they had an
issue there could maybe catch a couple of different spots
and then if that goes well, is perhaps your answer.
And I know everyone's like, oh, here we go, Cedric
obway he again or whatever, But you have to think
(24:13):
that the man's contract is actually up at the end
of next year, so you have to think about what
that looks like on a number of different levels. So
you're either extending him or signing him. Maybe you're signing
him back as a free agent. There's options there, but
I think one of them probably has to be a
pick ending up in the background as you're swinging.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
But when is and it's probably the old way he
Jake Fisher year. When is the last time that the
most pressing question about the offensive line was who's gonna play?
Down the road? Every other year it's who's gonna play?
Can this went left?
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Not? Really? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I mean a Maria can he play right now? Dylan
Farreshaw can he play right now? I mean Joona Williams?
Can he play right now?
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Hell? Billy Price? Can he? If your biggest.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Offensive line question is can can we groom this guy
to be the left tackle or right tackle? If you
move with Marius mems in twenty twenty seven? Awesome, Yeah,
Like that's never not going to be a thing. There's
always there's You're always going to be looking down the
road on the offensive line. If your offensive line is good,
that's where I want it to be.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Yeah, And exactly you were mentioning the left right thing
was sparked this in the sense I get is that
you know, I think they like mems right like he's
not moving. I get to say that's where they want
him to be because they can only pay him like
a right tackle. Then why don't get I think you
look at tell me you tell me you look at
the list of the guys that predominantly rush off the
(25:34):
against the right tackle and the left tackle, and tell
me what's the harder group.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
I mean, you're right, there's a lot.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Of the best guys coming off that side now that
that you'll see each year. I mean I would actually
maybe it's something I'll do at some point this offseason,
But I mean, I don't know that there's a huge difference.
You know, the whole blind side thing is a little
of rad and I'm certainly everyone that's been banging the
drum about Willie Anderson getting into the Hall of Fame
would suggest the same thing they've been saying with that
guard is that the blindside thing hasn't been as much
(26:02):
of a deal for a while now.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
But that said, I think, just you.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Got a guy who's great, an elite on that spot
and what he's doing, and you can you know you're
gonna have a lot of the best rushers coming off
that side anyway, why mess with it? And maybe there's
some scenarios where like they could only sign a guy
who's good at right and you'd consider it.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
But I just think it's like, let that be the thing.
Let that be it.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Let this guy be a great right tackle and that
means a lot so and things can change if Orlando
wasn't around, But for now, I think that's the best
way spot for him, and I think that's how they
view his feet.
Speaker 6 (26:37):
Would you want to fossil Yeah, yeah, I mean as
long as I'm not paying for it, right, yeah. I mean,
if it's gifted, I'll take it as a gift you
bring here, only a huge one, like I don't. I
heard I think Dylan Fairchild was on with on Pepper
Rally on Friday with with Dan and Lapp and mentioned
that he had gotten.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Like a shark tooth or like a tooth or something
like that or whatever it was. I would want the
biggest thing in the room. Give me the tusk, right,
like I want that on a wall. Huge. I don't.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
I don't want anything where it's like somebody in the corners,
Like I'm strictly doing it for someone to see it
when they walk in my house.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Why else am I doing?
Speaker 2 (27:15):
I just thinking if I bring a tusk call, my
wife is gonna be like, yeah, we're not We're not
putting out above the couch.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
I mean, you know, no, it's a man cave item. Sure, sure,
I mean that's not it's it's not above the mantle.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
It seemed to me the way I look at it
is if it's any sort of dinosaur fossil and yeah, right,
and then you have a weird people who like deny
the existence of dinosaurs that I can, you know, have
over my house to talk about my dinosaur fossil, you
know it. I would be like, if it's a dinosaur fossil,
that's what I want.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
Yeah, that's more so than a wooly mammoth or a
bear bear skull.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
I also am anti skull. I think skulls are creepy. Yeah,
even I I I'd rather just.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
I think I am. I'm a tusk guy.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
So or Lando Brown has gotten in his career slushy machine,
Rolex watch some luggage and uh, the the fossil of those.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Four which would be your preference? That's hard.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Slashing machine sounds good, but you have you're in charge
of all the slushy stuff.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I gotta make the slushy.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Yeah, now if I if there was I mean, if
there was slushy machine and someone who makes the slushies,
like an assistant like that, or or just a button
that instantly creates you're.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Like having to like restock the supplies of slushies. I
don't love that one, don't look, I don't want to
have to do any more work. I'd probably go fossil.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
I think as long as it was big and it
could be seen, I'm for that. With sword, I have
a sword, Yeah, I think the sword is probably the
coolest though, without question.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, the sword better than fossil, and I think any
other quarterback gift and.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I definitely don't need. I'm not I'm not like here
for the luggage and the I'm not in the watch.
I'm not a watch guy. I like watch guy. I
like so.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I wear a watch every single day, and I like
watches a Rolex. I cannot imagine wearing a watch that
expensive on my wrist and banging it against something or
if I just know I'm not cool enough in anything
else that I wish watch I'm wearing costs to be
able to like wear a rollleox it would be so
it's like you've seen the meme with like the sports
(29:23):
car under the beat up house in the car report, right,
that would be me wearing a Rolex.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
It makes no sense. Yes.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I used to work a show with Archrell Hawkins who
had some really really really nice watches, and he came
to me one day He's like, we're gonna up your
watch game, and I think I was wearing like a
like a Dakota Watch Company watch. So he like brings
in this book of watches. He's like, you got to
get one of these. I'm like, oh, those are really nice.
I'm like, you know, oh that one's eighty nine dollars
art Trail, Like, you know.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
That's not my game if I know your game?
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yes, yeah, like what's on the back page? Any fossil
watches on there?
Speaker 4 (30:00):
So it would have been really cool if he came
in and had a trench coat and just opened it
up and had all the watches inside of it, you know,
like straight out of the cartoons.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Yeah, you know. Butch Jones, when he would lose a game,
would go watch shopping. Is that what he would do?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
What he would do, he would he would comfort himself
by buying a really nice watch.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
I've heard I've heard stories about a lot of things
that put Jeff to do after losses.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Likewise and wins Uh.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
We're late twenty one away from four o'clock Paul Danner Junior,
The Athletic dot Com and The Growler Podcast. We're here
at Oakley CRE's on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Traffic from the uc Health Traffic Center from non invasive
to surgical treatments. The uc Health Backneck and Spine Center
offers every option to improve quality of life with convenient
locations across Greater Cincinnati and northern Kentucky. Learn more at
uc health dot com. Northbound Coal Raine remains closed down
(30:57):
due to an accident between round Top Road and Common Circle.
Police fire there on scene. Northbound seventy five at Tom Left.
Two lanes blocked from an accident at he'sund Like with traffic,
this reput is.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
ESPN Figeratt Oakley's Lanes and Oakley Paul Danner Juniors here
for another few minutes.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
You can read his work at the Athletic dot com.
You can catch the Growl of podcast.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
I would imagine the most recent one has not been
dropped yet.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
No, it'll probably be ready for doople in the morning.
Post production post production process is happening as we speak,
when files are doing the like spinning thing.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Gotcha, the AFC North, the division the Bengals are in,
is still up for grabs. You've got this massive tilt
on a Sunday between the Ravens and Steelers.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Do you believe there will be negative fallout for the
head coach of the losing team on Sunday?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
I do not.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
No, no, not gonna move on from Mike Tomlin. No,
not gonna move on from John Harbaugh.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
No, okay, I mean I want the Steelers to keep Mike.
I think I don't understand.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Well, I'm with you. I would have said Tomlin. I
would have thought myself, they're in this rut with Tomlin.
Like clearly they're in this rut with Tomlin. But they're
pretty dedicated to him. I mean that's been apparent for
a long time, Like they and he. I mean, the
man does seem to He takes a team that you
(32:23):
think should win five games and gets them to win
nine every year. There's very much value in that. Like,
I'm for that, And if they can ever give them
a little bit more in terms of the offensive side
of the ball or at quarterback, then maybe he'd have
a chance to do something special. Again, I'm not saying that.
They just certainly don't seem like they have any interest
(32:44):
in moving on from Mike. And I don't see Mike
walking away from anything even if they lose, Like, I
just don't.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
I just don't see that.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
What do I what do I know exactly what's gonna happen,
But more than most I don't think. I just have
never gotten that when you hear how dedicated they are.
I don't see Tomlin all of a sudden walking away
from it because they lose one game, like he's not
gonna budge like that and start going and doing TV
or whatever like. And John Harbaugh isn't going anywhere. And
(33:12):
John Harbaugh has done a great job, He's had great teams.
One year, Lamar is struggling a little bit and they're
not winning as much, and all of a sudden, John
Harbaugh is not going to be a part of things,
right Like, I don't believe that for a second. So no,
I don't. I don't think. I think and in fact,
I think all four AFS and North coaches will be back.
Is gonna come back and clean?
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I don't know. I know he's under fire, but I
don't see him. I just think that they'll stick with him.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Yeah, I mean there's a lot of there's more smoke
than we've ever seen around Stefanski here, mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
But you know, I still I still feel it just.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Seems to me like the moment I'm the Browns fan,
but the moment they saddled him with Deshaun Watson, they
made his job almost impossible.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Yeah, the whole every I mean, what are they supposed
to be doing right now?
Speaker 3 (33:56):
What are they winning right with? With the With the
quarterback situation being what it is, you can have a
great defense. They don't have a quarterback or a lot
of receivers.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Right, Yeah, Well, so all four guys back in the
AFC North.
Speaker 4 (34:11):
I mean that'd be my bet Stefanski, with the being
the obvious, the one who would be.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Most would would Sunday. I know, you don't cover the Browns.
Would Sunday's game have any any bearing on that? I
don't think so.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
I think this this feels like one of these year
long battles that have been going on internally, you know,
and it's like whether they're either going to decide that
I'm okay with everything that you said, maybe when you
didn't mean some things and that I said, and that
we all felt about it, and we all either agree
on what the path forward should be, or you're gonna
(34:47):
say you don't agree with what the path forward should be.
Do you think anything to do with winning or losing
at the Bengals?
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Do you think it would be reasonable for Zach Taylor
and Kevin Stefanski to meet up before the game on
Sunday morning and agree to not throw a pass?
Speaker 3 (35:00):
So again, could just be over do it?
Speaker 4 (35:02):
You remember there's been a number of final preseason games. Well,
he felt like that was the agreement. Yes, Marvin Lewis
had a bunch of those where it was like did
they just run it like forty nine times? I feel
like that's the way to go six three final. It's
just I just keep her, get Chase Brown his thousand,
you know, and just keep right ongoing.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
I think if you're Zach Taylor, you call Kevin Stefanska
and go, hey, how would you like to be one
of two head coaches who coached in the shortest game ever,
right and have that bad boy like, let's let's try
to be at our like Zach says, like I want
to be at my house by four o'clock.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
I'm going safe game plan. There's no doubt about that.
I mean, if it's like, okay, if Joe's gonna play,
I certainly will not be calling any seven step drops
or long developing plays or anything that doesn't have three
people staring right at Myles Garrett.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Is there somebody playing their last game in a Bengals
uniform on Sunday that we aren't necessarily talking as much
about them playing the last game in a beform on Sunday,
Whether it be because they can walk as a free agent,
the team cuts, the guy decides he wants to go
do something else, anybody like that.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Bj Hill's the most interesting decision in that regard. I
think they there would be some they would save some money,
but it'd be a little more dead money than they
usually prefer to take on. But that said, he has
a two million dollars roster bonus on the fifth day
of the league year, which is always an indicator of
what's going to happen there. They're potentially going to be
(36:35):
looking for somebody to give you a little bit more
pass rush juice out of the three technique position. It's
not really what BJ has been doing. How much do
they view his injuries as part of what's happening. He's
only a year older. All of that I think plays
into Okay, are they trying to turn over leadership anyway?
So you're you're okay, just moving on? That could be
(36:57):
this could be that for him that maybe not all
to be are thinking about are talking about, because that'su
a position where they could upgrade with someone who is
must much more of a pass rusher than what that
BJ is. And and he's been you know, it's been
okay this year, but no, you know, it's it's like
it has to be better on the on the line
(37:18):
as a whole.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Talk about somebody who represents one of the best trades
they've ever made though. Absolutely, you know Billy Price, who
they were gonna cut anyway, and got a piece who
was a part of two teams in made AFC Championship
games and made the critical play in the game that
they won against Kansas City. Yeah, absolutely, what I mean
for all that has filled a fantastic girl to me,
the Bengals lost their way when they took him out
(37:40):
of the role. Like to me, when they started asking
him to be more. He was great as a rotational
guy in there, and everybody gets older and things change
or whatever. But like in that role when you give
him as a real one two punch and the problem
with that is Chris Jenkins hasn't developed. But when you
give him that and don't ask him.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
They asked him to play way too many snaps for
multiple years, way too many snaps, and I think when
you keep that number lower, it was always a you're
you're getting more with less, uh from from him, And
I think they too often asked him to do too
much and it took away I think a little bit
from what he's been later in his career. But yeah, still,
by every stretch, an unbelievable deal. It's like, man, why
(38:22):
can't you guys just try to throw away center for
a guy who's gonna be a defensive centerpiece for the
next five years all the time?
Speaker 2 (38:28):
They should do that more. I've thought of the emotions.
I'll have one number twenty two jogs off the field
for the last time.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
Will you go down to where the they go in
the tunnel and ask for his gloves.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
I might, you know, I might.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Could you please throw me your gloves or and your
cleats and you're you know, all of it. Could you
imagine how big that would be if you could put
them on your dog?
Speaker 3 (38:47):
He'd miss I mean, you know, he'd throw the Yeah,
I know where you're going. I get it. I don't
know if there is an athlete.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I feel like I have complained about more yeah in
my career than Geno Stones.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Yeah, and he's only been here two years.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
You know, I think it's interesting here. He's a lovely man,
but they like a lot of what he has done.
Behind the scenes, I think they've looked when they felt
like there aren't a lot of people that seem to
care very much, right.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Or at least that was certainly a part of the problem.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
At one point this year, he always felt like somebody
who did care does care, does try to make things
work for the better. I think off the field, his
presence has been good. The problem is he is largely
paid for what you do on the field, and that
has not been TOOKO. No, we'll talk to you next year.
(39:39):
Thank you as always looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Thanks for Paul Danner Junior Rita's work Theathletic dot com,
catch the Growler podcast on YouTube, among other places. We're
here at Oakley Greens till six o'clock. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 5 (40:00):
From the uc Health Traffic Center. From non invasive to
surgical treatments, The uc Health Backneck and Spine Center offers
every option to improve quality of life with convenient locations
across Greater Cincinnati and northern Kentucky. Learn more at UCHealth
dot com. Northbound Coal Raine remains closed down due to
an accident between round Top Road and Common Circle. Police
(40:24):
fire there on scene. Northbound seventy five at Town left
two lanes blocked from an accident. I met Exelic with traffic.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
This report is sponsored by
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