12/3/24 - The Mo Egger Radio Show - Mo Egger

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's going down in Big d.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Oho, spikes the ball at the back of the outside.

Speaker 3 (00:05):
Sag Taylor's Orange and Black march into Texas for a
lone star showdown with the Cowboys, Ya Tavahak Chops under
the ground, the Bengals high flying offense overpower the Dallas.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Defense secured a two per BacT check.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
Get a cool from Dangerous Dan Hood and Mighty Dave.
Coverage begins Monday at three on ESPN fifteen thirty, the
official home of the Bengals.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
What's up, Good afternoon on a legger. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty. Thank you so much for joining us. Hopefully
you're having a great Tuesday. After good We are back
in Hamilton at Buffalo Wild Wings, Bridgewaterfalls. We broadcast from
here about two months ago and had a great time
to staf here. Very hospitable, a large room, a great room,

(00:52):
and you can take advantage of all sorts of stuff
like the six for nineteen ninety nine deal right, you've
got two entrees, two two fountain drinks for nineteen ninety nine.
You could get by one, get one half off traditional Wings.
You can get a five dollars bud light tall. You
could take advantage of all sorts of bud Light specials.
You could win a prize thanks to our friends at

(01:13):
bud Light. And all you gonna do is is get
here between now and six o'clock. Very easy to get
to if you're in the Hamilton Fairfield area. Come on
out and see us maybe when you get off work.
We are here till six o'clock. We have a lot
of ground to cover and a lot of Bengals stuff today,
some college football, some college hoops. Jesse Winker, I guess
might come back and play for the Reds in an

(01:34):
effort to redo the twenty twenty one team. I'm in
favor of this though, and I'll explain why. Two words
for you. I'll tell you what they are in the
four o'clock hour. And I want Ohio State to win
the national title. I'll explain why coming up in just
a bit. We also have to have a tough conversation
about a Bengals player. But first, our buddy Paul Danner Jr.

(01:54):
Usually joins us in person on Tuesdays, whether we're in
studio or here in Buffalo Wild Wings. He has personal
obligations so not able to sit next to me here
at Buffalo wild Wings, but kind enough to give us
a few minutes on the phone. He's with the Athletic
dot Com. He's with the Growler podcast. He is the host.
Latest edition Balls Don't Lie came out a short while ago.

(02:15):
Go get that. Follow Paul on X at Paul Danner Jr.

Speaker 4 (02:19):
How you doing doing good?

Speaker 5 (02:22):
No?

Speaker 4 (02:22):
I always feel empty not sitting next to you. We
don't get our time together, and I feel a bit lost,
but I'm I'm still happy to be here. So I'm
is the cooler? Do you guys giving away the cooler
or what's the what do you got over there to do?

Speaker 5 (02:37):
Well?

Speaker 2 (02:37):
You know the way it works. I'll pull back the curtain.
If there's the the upcoming Sunday there's a Bengals home game,
we give away tickets. And if the upcoming Sunday is
not a Bengals home game, which obviously this one is not,
it's it's the cooler, and so the cooler right now
probably a hotter commodity than the tickets.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
It's a nice cooler. I would say, the value with
its certainly rising pass the tickets pretty quickly. It's a
nice cooler.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
We took our I got one of those coolers. We
took it to my sister in laws for Thanksgiving, and
I probably could have sold that for like four hundred bucks,
so I didn't because then I would have had all
the stuff. But I mean, yeah, that's that cooler is
a a hot commodity. Uh where do you want to begin? Yeah,
you want to you want to talk about the game
itself on Sunday? You want to talk about who's gonna

(03:26):
get fun? I mean, what, like, there's lots of different
directions we can go in. I didn't know if you
were chomping at the bit to like just go into
one one specific area.

Speaker 4 (03:36):
I'm I'm not chomping at the bit. Today's podcast is
an hour and twenty minutes. You know, we've just kind
of gone all over this, and I've written multiple pieces
sort of about the defense that we've been talking about
it four months. It was kind of I guess maybe

(03:56):
the crescendo a little bit, wasn't it of this defensive
storyline over the course of this year for it to
be Russell Wilson and Pittsburgh and all of that. So
I'm happy to continue going in on the defense because
I'm pretty sure there's very few aspects of it that
I haven't got my thoughts together on at this point.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Well so for me, I think there are good conversations
to have about lou Anarumo and Sunday really felt like
the bottoming out for him as DC. And when there's
a bottoming out, typically there's a goodbye, right, there's a
dismissal and a search for a new defensive coordinator. But
I fear that if I focus on that too much,

(04:36):
it ignores what you and I talked about on your
podcast today, which is a defense that just doesn't have anybody.
And I was listening after the game and you were
busy going down to the locker room. I was listening
to Dan Horde's postgame comments on the radio network with
Wayne box Miller, and he was just talking about the
lack of difference makers, and all due respect to Dan,
I'm like difference makers. I just want guys I can

(04:57):
put out there that aren't gonna screw up, And that
to me, is what Sunday was about. We'll talk about
lou and he talked at length with you guys yesterday,
but if you needed, if you needed evidence more evidence
that defensively, the cupboard is about bear just put on
the tape of Sunday's game.

Speaker 4 (05:19):
Yeah no, And I think that's where the ultimate decision
and the conversation about lou Ana Rumo will come from,
is what is this What is the root of this problem?
Is this the root of a problem where the players
just aren't good enough that you're asking a coordinator who
is been accomplished, who has done great things here, who

(05:42):
has turned out some of the best defenses that you've
had in terms of individual runs to the Super Bowl,
in terms of really totality of that twenty two season,
and you're gonna tell me that he doesn't know what
he's doing right now. There's a lot of different ways
you can go in there, but the end of it
is are the players that bad or were the players

(06:05):
put in front of him struggling to develop because there's
some kind of a disconnect there. I mean, the answer
that the Bengals front office or Zach Taylor or a
combination of all of them comes up with in regards
to that topic is probably where you get your decision
of what ends up happening there. But to me, you're right,

(06:26):
I mean, at face value you're looking at right now,
you know you don't have piece think about how many
different people made plays in that time frame that we're
talking about for this defense in twenty one, in twenty
two when they were I mean, you would have Trey
hendrickson one day, you'd have a Jesse Bates pick. You'd

(06:47):
have Von Bell popping the ball out in New England.
You'd have Logan Wilson was all over the place, he
had all these interceptions, and you'd have twa Use was
playing like a number one shutdown corner. And you know,
Mike Hilton was the best slot in football, and Sam
Hubbard was doing it all and DJ Reader might be

(07:08):
the best defensive tackle there is. Like those were every
single week. I used to call that team they were inevitable,
right like they were gonna find some kind of a
way because they had so many guys that wanted to
make that play and could make that play. This team
has nobody that can make that play right now, Nobody,
at least nobody that is making that play outside of

(07:30):
the guy that wears number ninety one and sees three
different blockers in front of him every time he tries
to go to the quarterback. So you're just in an
impossible spot. You at some point you have to have
somebody who can go out there and win one on one.
This is a This is a player's game. Man. You
can scheme all you want and be a wizard all

(07:51):
you want. You're doing that to create one on ones.
You know, you know you're gonna get a free runner
a couple times a game, and they can't win. They
can't create enough of them. And there's clearly a disconnect
in understanding situations in the game, awareness of angles, of

(08:11):
what they're supposed to be doing, and then you throw
in some of the stuff that you know they might
contend otherwise. I see poor effort on tape. They don't
see it as much. That's fine, I know what I
am looking at. You know all of that together, you know,
there's blame everywhere. Everybody's got their hand in the cookie jars.

(08:33):
Kind of been my line this year. There's there's nobody
that doesn't have a part in this. But you know
it's I think inevitably there is a lot of like
for whatever reason it is, certainly they don't have anywhere
near enough good players on that side of the wall.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
So you you reference the E word, and I will
admit to you I'm I'm always very hesitant to question
a professional athletes effort because it's what they do, and
I think that is sometimes the easy default that people take,
and I think it's lazy and I think it's unfair
in many cases. You know as well as anybody, how

(09:12):
hard these guys work, what it means to them. They're professionals,
and don't I don't love questioning a professional's effort, but
a lot of people have gone there. How much is
effort of problems, specifically on defense.

Speaker 4 (09:26):
I don't think it's a problem for this defense. I
thought it showed up at times on Sunday and by effort,
I think there's an extra level. DJ Reader he used
to call it that strain, that extra that you were
willing to do that you knew the guy across from you, wasn't.
I love talking to DJ Reader all the time. I
missed him. I missed your DJ.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
I miss him.

Speaker 4 (09:49):
He would talk Yeah, I know, yeah, some are the
guys that used to play next to him, but he
would he would talk about that extra strain, and that
became such a personality of the defense. Right when he
was there, they all had that. They were flying to
the ball constantly, and you look, we've seen some of
the plays this year. I mean the game in Baltimore

(10:12):
where you've got the like chasing lay half push out
the side. I mean, we've seen these plays. So it's
not that there don't care or they're not trying. It's
that strain. It's that extra effort. It's that every little
bit to the last second by all eleven guys out there.
And I'll go I'll go back to von Bell and

(10:34):
something that leuen Orromeau referenced yesterday about how von Bell
helped build this thing and talking about not just the
Ac Chamison game but the hit on Juju Smith Schuster.
It's just from a personality, from an attitude of that
extra strain to make that big hit, to chase it
down to be just tenacious, where every player is showing

(10:57):
that every play. And I just don't think you see
that at all out of this defense. So it's not
that they're not trying or they don't want to. And
and they you know this, certainly Loui yesterday via me
Lea disagreed with any idea that there's a missing want
to or that his message isn't getting through. But like
that strange stuff, that extra level of everyone doing that

(11:19):
every play. I mean, you're not seeing that right now,
and I think that's a big difference, uh, when you
talk about the difference between those teams and where this
team is at right now.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
I have taught you very little, and you've taught me
a lot about the Bengals about football. But if there's
one thing I have taught you, it's that the most
basic radio trick is if you want the guest to
stick around for a segment, you ask them on the
air because I gotta I gotta get a break in. Typically,
if you're with me in studio or here at beat ups,

(11:51):
you know you're here for an hour and so we
just talk for an hour, but you know you're you're
on the phone right So it's I've got to ask
you to stick around for another segment. But you know
the trick I'm employing here because whenever you ask the
guests on air to stick around for another segment, they're
compelled to say yes because they don't want to be
the bad guy. They don't want to create an awkward conversation.
So I know I'm doing that, but I have a

(12:13):
lot more that I want to ask you. So do
you mind sticking around?

Speaker 4 (12:16):
Well, this does challenge my my core belief that the
next time this happened to me, I really wanted to
be the one to be the bad guy and be like, look,
I clearly have better things to do, but I won't.
I know, I mean, I would be happy to. It
would be my joy and pleasure to come back for
toms you want.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
When you're on with the guys down the Hall, do
they ever ask you to stick around for another segment?
Say no to them.

Speaker 4 (12:43):
I will. I will make sure to do that. That's
officially on my list.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Now, hang tight. Paul Danner Jr. Covering the Bengals for
The Athletic and the Growler podcast. Latest episode Baalds Don't Lie,
by the way, and you've got like an extra episode
now which Charlie go Smith.

Speaker 4 (13:01):
Yeah, yeah, Charlie is doing a rewatch reaction show with
me on Mondays where he go We got to pour
through what we are reactions to the initial rewatch, which
is what we used to do just hanging out inside
of the media room on Mondays. So now we're just
going to report it while we do it.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
That popped up in my YouTube feed last night and
was a pleasant surprise, So go catch that and then
watch balls don't lie too. It is twenty minutes after
three o'clock. Paul Danner Junior. I'm here at Buffalo Wild
Wings in Hamilton, Bridgewater Falls here till six on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station twenty five after three. This

(13:38):
is esp AND fifteen thirty broadcasting today from Buffalo Wild
Wings in Hamilton in Bridgewater Falls. I love coming up here.
Woman's applauding, so we've managed to keep her interested for
twenty five minutes, which is a minor miracle. Paul Danner
Junior is here. Covers the Cincinnati Bengals for the Athletic
and Theathletic dot Com and hosts of the Growler podcast

(14:01):
and uh on x at Paul Dander, Am I leaving
anything out with you?

Speaker 4 (14:06):
No? Thank goodness, O, thank goodness. I mean, I don't
think there needs to be any more than there already is.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
You know, there are some folks I have on the
air where it's like I mentioned all like five or
six things they do, and invariably I leave something else
I didn't. I didn't want to do that with you.

Speaker 4 (14:21):
No, I'm not offended. No, you've covered it all, and
I don't I don't plan on adding anymore anytime soon.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Very good? Is this it for Lui Ana Romo?

Speaker 4 (14:34):
It sure feels like it, right, I mean it does.
It's hard to see a world where you just say
run it back. You know, you got to look at
the situation and the standard disclaimers of why this place
is different than most. This coaching staff has benefited from

(14:55):
patients with them over the years, and and and pointed
out that, you know, there's not a lot of places
that would have given it to them, and they paid
they felt like they paid it off back in after
the nineteen and twenty seasons. That's obviously a very different
situation than this one. That was them building from scratch
something that was going to take time. This is they

(15:18):
have been the builders for a long time now, this
is their house, and and so it just makes it
certainly feel different. I we've seen many years, Mo, You've
been around here as long as I have, where it
seems like there's no path for anybody, whether it be coach, player, assistant,
head coach, whatever. And all of a sudden, a couple

(15:40):
of games at the end of the season and there's
a thought that figured it out and things are trending
in the right direction, and turn it around and next thing,
you know, there's continuity and and and we know how
that has traditionally turned out. So I'm certainly I don't
think anything is definitive. I don't think any is decided

(16:01):
or maybe even thoroughly talk through at this point. But yeah,
I think it does feel like it seems really hard
when you consider how bad, how historical, how frustrating it's
been for Joe Burrow to see this all happen. There's
just there's just no way there isn't some version of

(16:24):
a fall guy here. And when you have all of
these picks, you know, we continue to reference, you know,
these nine top one hundred picks that they've given them
over the last few years, and really getting very little
out of any of them, you know, it just feels
like all of that needs some sort of a new

(16:44):
voice and new direction and just a true blow it up,
fresh start. That doesn't mean that that's where this ends,
but it sure seems like it's trending pretty hard in
that direction.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Will he be one of these defensive coordinators that's like
out of job for five minutes and just be fielding
a whole slew of offers.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
Boy, I gotta tell you if I was, if I
was a head coach in the AF two s H,
I would certainly be considering. I don't. I think he
should have plenty of offers. I think he has proven
himself as understanding how to run a defense in this league,
how to do it at a high level, how to
win you games in the biggest spot, and how to

(17:27):
slow down Patrick Mahomes, amongst others. Right when he's when
he's had when he's had the firepower on his side,
when he's had it to play with, man, they they've
just been great. I mean, and had a legion of
players that believe in and at every stuff that he's been.
So yeah, I I certainly would be stunned. I mean,

(17:49):
he was rightfully up for head coaching jobs very recently.
I mean, that wasn't a thing that was that was
made up. There were multiple teams pursuing and pursuing hard.
There's so much turnover in this league from a coordinator's side,
offensive and defense every year, and it feels like every
year or two half the league has already turned over.

(18:10):
There's gonna be lots of spots, and if you're looking
for somebody that knows what they're doing, that has a
recent history of success and success against the people that
you probably are most interested in beating. Yeah, I would
have a hard time seeing that he wouldn't quickly be
a coordinator again.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
So we've watched players move on where it felt like,
you know what, it's time to move on, and then
they go and succeed elsewhere, and then we rip them
for letting that player walk. So like lu Go go somewhere
else and he's Loana Roumo again and he's coaching the
defense up and it's achieving good results. We're not going
to do the same thing with him.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
Yeah we are. You know it would. It's part of
the reason you do is because of what's currently happening.
And you know, like you talked about this for when
the Lord knows how many times we've all talked about
this before. Whether you're talking about Jesse Bates, you're talking
about Andrew Whitworth, you're talking about DJ Reader, it's not
about them leaving. It's about the lack of what happens

(19:09):
from their replacements. And if lou leaves and the defense
still struggles with the current group of players or whatever
reconstructive group they put together. Yeah, it shows that it
was the players. The conversation we started this with back
in the beginning of this hour, like what is it?
Is it the players, is it the coach? Is it
the combination of both? Well, it certainly could be very

(19:30):
possible that whoever comes in next looks at it and says,
what is this and doesn't get what he needs and
suddenly we're saying, well, I guess it was the players,
and so yeah, of course, I mean that's very real possibility.
And well you have to see how it eventually plays out,
but you could see that.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
So a few more on that'lllectch run. This is the
time of year now because the Bengals have a four
and eight record, we have to start talking about business decisions.
I have a business decisions question, all right, So if
your bow knicks, do you tell Sean Payton like, Hey,
I'm not feeling it because you want to set out
these next two games to ensure that you're healthy when
you play the Bengals week seventeen.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
Yeah, that's the business decision you're talking about. Is everybody
just changing their entire setup to make sure that they're
rudy for their big Bengals game.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Did you see some of the throws that kid? You see? Yeah,
do you see some of the throws that dude was
making last night? Like I'm watching that going Gino Stone
will be there to make that play, and you know,
Cam Taylor Brett, they'll be over there to make that.
Black guy's gonna throw for eight hundred yards. If I'm
bow Knicks, I'm telling Sean Payton, like I got this.
We'll be good. I'll go there. We'll score fifty six
points even if we lose these next two. But I

(20:46):
need to be on the field in Cincinnati to play
against that secondary.

Speaker 4 (20:49):
But some of his throws won't be as impressive when
there's actually no one even in the area, right, Like
some of the stuff that made those throws impressive was
that the windows were small, and he you know, avoided
a bunch of you know, potential stacks in order to
make the play. Well, when you don't have to worry
about that, it just looks like almost like you're just
out there doing routes on air in August. So it's

(21:11):
not going to be quite as impressive as you think.
And a bonus, when do they stup like Bonix only
puts up like, you know, three hundred and fifty yards
pass and you're like, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Mean Russ went over four hundred mm hmm, yeah with
that screen game that apparently nobody had ever employed before.
In all seriousness, when when do the business decisions begin?
Because he here's where we were at the point that
we talked about the Bengals hopefully not being at this
past summer as it relates specifically to T Higgins, and

(21:43):
maybe you could apply this to Jamar Chase and perhaps
a handful of others as well. Right, Like, there were
those wondering about T Higgins, like, you know, is he
is he gonna make a business decision, which, by the way,
have come to loathe that term. But is he suddenly
going to come up with an injury? And people were
doing that when he you know, pulled up lay right
before the opener, I felt that was drastically unfair. And
you and I talked about this, and you know, my

(22:05):
take was T Higgins has always been a gamer. T
Higgins always been a guy that you know, I'd go
back to New Year's Eve last year putting himself back
on the field when he was obviously not one. But
that game meant everything. These games moving forward me nothing.
So here we are, do the business decisions.

Speaker 4 (22:21):
Begin, the discussion of them rightfully begin, and and and
if you're T Higgins again, and we've we've said this,
what he has every right. Uh, if this season doesn't
mean anything, and there's two games left and he's looking
at an off season of his life in front of him,

(22:42):
and the team that didn't want to pay him wants
him to play, he doesn't have to do that, and
no one should would probably fault him otherwise, Certainly the
other thirty one teams would not care. It would not
affect his evaluation in free agency one dime if he
chose to that. And so that's gonna be probably the

(23:05):
biggest one. I think that that you would that you
would look at and I don't think anybody would fault him.
That's what you get when you don't pay a guy
when you could have, and you didn't value him at
the level that he felt like he was valued. And
now the season doesn't mean anything and he doesn't gain
anything out of it anymore. Yeah, I think that's rightful.
I don't know what he'll do. I don't know that
he knows what he'll do. I probably has some thoughts

(23:27):
on it, but you know, I think, yeah, once you
get to the last couple of games of the season
and you feel like you've done what you wanted to do,
I could see somebody like him certainly the rest. I
think there's a lot of people that are still have
things that they're playing for, whether it be positions, whether
it be proving a point, whether it be stats. There's
stuff there.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah, like what's what's the what's the Bengals record for
most mistackles in a season? Because Gino Stone might chase it,
chase it down?

Speaker 4 (23:53):
Yeah, absolutely, no for it.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yeah, do you think they would like you?

Speaker 4 (23:57):
But or or the or the really the battle for
most misstackles on this team. I mean you talk about
man as the best. I mean, if you can beat
out Jermaine Pratt, who's right on his heels right now,
or whoever to to take that crown, that's one where
you say, man, I was the worst tackler on one

(24:18):
of the worst tackling teams that we've ever seen in
franchise history. Like, you know, trophy trophy up high.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Is that something like are you're still ahead of the
Pro Football Writers Chapter here, right.

Speaker 4 (24:31):
I'm I'm I'm part of it.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
So you could like commission like a statue, like if
a guy like lunging and missing a tackle, and like
the yeah we have like.

Speaker 4 (24:40):
The Media Cooperation Award formerly known like the Good Guy Award,
there's a plaque. Right. I would be definitely for the
the with Tackle Trophy if we could find a way
to make that happen. That feels very possible. It's certainly
something I'd be willing to invest in.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
Well, if ginos Stone, let's say it was a home
game and he breaks this the franchise record for most
mistackles in a single season, would would they like? Would
they stop the game? Would it be something on the
video board?

Speaker 5 (25:12):
Like?

Speaker 2 (25:12):
How would that work?

Speaker 4 (25:13):
That would be great? Could we two minute montage of
all of the mistackles in slow motion with like one
shining moment playing in the background for this? I think
we're onto something right here.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
And and one more thing really quick, so you know
the they brought the ping pong table back into the
locker room last week. It didn't work. So I was
on a website about like corporate team building activities, and
I found the four that I liked the most, and
I put it as a poll question, but I wanted
your input on what the next team building exercise slash

(25:48):
Gimmicks should be. A giant jigsaw puzzle, show and tell,
have everybody untangle a human knot or a cooking class.

Speaker 4 (26:02):
Wow, wow, I would say, yeah, I think the uh oh, well,
that's a really hard one. I think the giant jigsaw puzzle.
That's what I want to see. And I want to
see the offense and defense all have to work together,
you know, right and and and then like you know,

(26:23):
the defense is in charge of the edges, but like
can't finish it, and the offense is mad because they
finished the middle, but they got nowhere to hook it
up to, right, Like, you get all of that and
they can start working out their problems that way. I like.
I like the idea of that. I think that's the
things where you I think that's where you go. I
like it.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
All right, very good. Uh well, that's what we mark
you down for giant jigsaw puzzle. Awesome stuff. As always,
I do appreciate the time, and we'll see you next week.

Speaker 4 (26:49):
What are the results of that pull? By the way,
do you do you know what though? I'm really curious
where people are pulling.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
On that pretty lopsided. Fifty five point two percent say
have the team take a cooking class?

Speaker 6 (27:01):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, nineteen point six percent say show and tell, uh,
fourteen percent say untangle a human knot, and just over
eleven percent say giant jigsaw puzzle.

Speaker 4 (27:15):
Wow. I'm in the full minority. Nobody else thinks the
giant jigsaw puzzle is fun or interesting. What's interesting about
them taking a cooking class together.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
That's the thing I don't understand. I was reading this
woman's website and she's like, Yeah, something you could do
for bonding is you know, everybody takes a cooking class,
but then everybody has to, like, you know, help cook.
It's like a giant holemech project. And uh maybe because
we have young kids, I've done a lot of jigsaw
puzzles over the last seven years, so I'm kind of
pro jigsaw puzzle too.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
Yeah, I am, I am as well.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Well.

Speaker 4 (27:46):
Anyway, I'm I appreciate that. That's a great question, and
I look forward to seeing if the results may be
change after after this really influential discussion of it. All right, man,
thank you, as always, everybody.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Paul Danner Junior covers the Bengals four the Athletic. He's
got a podcast, and like a good one, not like
you know how everybody has a podcast and then only
a few people have good ones. Paul is a good one.
The growler. Go get it where you get your podcast,
including the iHeartRadio app, and of course follow him on
x at Paul Danner Junior. We are way late, twenty
minutes away from four o'clock. We're at Buffalo Wild Wings

(28:25):
in Hamilton, home of the six for nineteen ninety nine
deal which I am taking advantage of before six o'clock
on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. All right, I'm
way late for this. Sports headlines and service of Kelsey
Chevrolet loaded college basketball slates, and I U see is
on the road in Philadelphia to take on Villanova. That
game will tip off at six thirty on seven hundred WLW.

(28:47):
Bearcats playing their third road game of the season and
arguably their most difficult Tonight. On ESPN fifteen thirty, it's
Kentucky battling Victor Lockin and the Clemson Tigers. That game
tips off at nine thirty. Pregame at eight on ESPA
in fifteen thirty. Fox Sports thirteen sixty has a nku
at Akron. Also tonight, The Sean Miller Show is at

(29:07):
seven o'clock on fifty five KRC. Indiana takes on Sam Houston,
The Dayton Flyers battle Western Michigan, and the Columbus Blue Jackets.
Tonight will try to extend their point street to seven games.
They hit the road to take on Calgary. Anything you
might have missed on the show, go get on the
iHeartRadio app. I thought yesterday's Tony Andmo Football Show covered

(29:29):
the Bengals debacle on Sunday from every conceivable angle, and
if you missed it, go get it. Also on my
page at ESPN fifteen thirty dot com. We'll jump back
into the Bengals. There's a conversation we have to have
that nobody's gonna want to have. We'll get to that
coming up in the four o'clock hour. The Reds offseason
has thus far been I don't want to say quiet.

(29:52):
They have a new manager and a guy who's kind
of a big deal in Terry Francona. They traded away
Jonathan India, who I guess yesterday put a note to
Red's country if you will on Instagram and got back
what they were looking for, which is a starting pitcher
who has been through a full big league season. I
don't know how valid this is because I don't know
who Mark c heally is, but he tweeted out and

(30:16):
Mark c Heally, for what it's worth, is the founder
of Gotham Baseball, which is a reputable New York baseball website.
He's on Sirius XM. He works for Baseball Digest, so
it feels like he has some bona fides. Up until
last night, I had never heard of him put on
social media last night that he has heard that Jesse
Winker may be close to a deal with the Reds Now.

(30:39):
I had a lot of fun with this on Twitter
last night because I like naming guys, and when I
think of Jesse Winker, I think of the twenty twenty
one Reds, And when I think of the twenty twenty
one Reds, I think of well like Brad Brock and
Shogowakayama and Tyler Naquin and Ryan Hendricks and a team
that won eighty three games. You will find folks who

(31:03):
do not want this to happen. You will find folks
because they know and like Jesse Winker, and Jesse is
a good guy. At least I thought he was. It
was nice to me. I want I'm back. I want
Jesse Winker to come back if that's an option. And
I'll give you two words that will illustrate why Mike Ford.

(31:30):
Remember Mike Ford was with the team at spring training.
Wasn't good enough to make the team at a spring
training sign with the team when their depth got tested,
ended up betting third for a while, was terrible, and
they moved on Mike Ford when injuries started to take

(31:51):
their toll. Last season, a shocking lack of depth was revealed.
I don't want the Reds to have a shocking lack
of depth. So there's a difference between the Reds are
gonna sign Jesse Winker and he's gonna play one hundred
and fifty games in left field, no thanks, not good
against lefties, doesn't bring much speed to the table. Is

(32:13):
atrocious on defense, and the Reds have to be better
on defense. If it's Jesse Winker is gonna be signed
and he's gonna dh you know, against some right handed pitching,
there's some validity to that. I would argue I could
probably find better. But okay, if it's Jesse Winker is
gonna be on the team and he's gonna give the

(32:33):
Reds some depth. Hell yeah, because what did we see
last season? A revolving door of guys who got playing
time who were not big league players. Is Jesse Winker
a really good big league player?

Speaker 6 (32:47):
No?

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Is he a big league player? Yes? I want the
bench to have big league players now again. If this
is gonna be the big splash move of the offseason,
and we're gonna run it back and hope that he
could be as good as he was in twenty twenty
one hard pass and by the way, you know some
life in his bad with the Mets last season after
he got sent to New York from the Nationals and

(33:10):
had some really big hits, including a homer in the
postseason for New York. The Reds have to have a
deeper team this season because injuries will take their toll.
They just traded away Jonathan India, who I thought was
going to be best utilized ideally if Matt McClain was
healthy as a utility guy. They had a startling lack
of death last season. Fill the depth with big leaguers,

(33:34):
not Jacob hurdubees, Connor Capele and Mike Ford. Sign me
up for Jesse Winker to add some depth. Ate away
from four o'clock. We're at Buffalo Wild Wings in Hamilton.
We are here until six. We've got some awesome giveaways
thanks to our friends at bud Light. We've got five
dollars bud Light Talls. We've got buy one, get one

(33:54):
half off Traditional Wings. We've got the six for nineteen
ninety nine deal. We have every reason in the world
for you to come on out and join us. We
are here till six. If you can't be here before six.
All that stuff I just mentioned happening tonight. Great place
to watch a loaded college basketball slate this evening as well.
It is eight away from four o'clock. Still ahead. Hell, yes,

(34:15):
I went to Ohio State to win the national championship,
and I will explain why. And in a few minutes,
we've got to have a conversation about a Bengal that
you're not gonna want me to have. We'll do it
at four oh five on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 4 (34:29):
Join the Cincinnati Cyclone.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
It's going down in big ded.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Hello, spikes the ball in the back of the outside.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
Sag Taylors, Orange and Black march into Texas for a
lone star showdown with the Cowboys.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Gave hot chops up to the ground.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
The Bengals overpower the Dallas defense secured it to get
that call from Dangerous Dan Hood and Mighty Dave LEPAP
coverage begins Monday at three on.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
The official all right, there you go, it's one might
argue I must.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Have went on one day. Our tragic numbers down to
two because your Broncos won that game last night. What's
up a Leger five? After four, ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank
you for joining us. We are broadcasting as we do
on Tuesdays, except for next week. It's a Wednesday. We're
at Buffalo Wild Wings in Hamilton Bridgewater Falls. This is

(35:27):
the second time we have been here and the staff
here could not be more hospitable. We've got buy one,
get one half off traditional Wings. We've got the six
for nineteen ninety nine deal, which is awesome. You've got
two entrees, two sides, two fountain drinks for just nineteen
ninety nine. We've got five dollars butt light talls we've
got giveaways, We've got me. All we need is you.

(35:49):
We're here till six. And if you're like, well I
can't get there before six, moll, well, it's good plays
for dinner time. UC plays tonight, Kentucky plays tonight, MKU
plays tonight, dayton plays tonight and they'll show all those
games for you here at Buffalo Wild Wings in Hamilton.
We thank them for having us. I just threw up

(36:09):
on I didn't just throw up, I just put up
on X, which you know, Blue Sky doesn't let you
do poll questions, so we're doing them on X and
also have a lot more followers on that site at Mullleger.
Thanks to United Heartland Insurance. If you got to insure
something your home, your boat, your motorcycle, your car, yourself,

(36:31):
go to uchions dot com head lunch with the guys
from United Heartland Insurance yesterday and that was a lot
of fun and they are excited for twenty twenty five
and we thank them for supporting our show. Go to
uchions dot com. They have locations or offices i should say,
in Burlington, in Cincinnati, and right here in Hamilton. The

(36:53):
last few weeks we have been like rapid fire with guests.
And then when we haven't been run and fire with guests,
I haven't been on the air because I've been off
we had Thanksgiving holiday, and what that means is we
haven't had a lot of room for you for phone calls.
And actually today we are guest free between now and

(37:16):
five twenty. So I know that there's always a reluctance
by many in the audience to call a show when
it's out on location, but I'll throw it out there
anyway at five win three seven four nine, fifteen thirty
and eight six six seven oh two three seven seven
six works as well. And here's somebody that I don't

(37:37):
think I have talked to in like three weeks, and
I'm about to be very happy to hear his voice
or old friend Mike. Mike, you're on ESPN fifteen thirty.
How are you?

Speaker 6 (37:48):
So are you? And you're excellent as usual.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah, it's good to hear your voice. How are you doing?
How are you feeling?

Speaker 6 (37:58):
Eh? Not that great, buddy. You know, I'm not regressing.
I'm just kind of stuck in the mediocrity, kind of
like the redsin of angles.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
So well, there you go, you all right, But but
you know what, you're here and you're on the phone
with me, and that's that's all the counts.

Speaker 7 (38:14):
Yeah, I just lived by the moment.

Speaker 6 (38:16):
Now we that's it, and that's the I should have
been doing it my whole life. It's easier said than
done because I always tend to worry about the future
and pining over the past. But my priorities have changed
quite a bit. So, yeah, it's great talking to you.
I might have tried to call a couple of times,
but you know, I knew you had a lot of
guests and stuff and just couldn't get me in. And
I understand that. But I always listen to you, brother,

(38:38):
I mean almost always anyway.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
You mean almost.

Speaker 6 (38:44):
Well, every once in a while, I'm getting a procedure done,
or you know, I got needles or something.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Do you know, Mike on on on on Thursday, I
am having a medical procedure of my own.

Speaker 6 (38:58):
What's up.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
You know, when you get into your forties, you have
to start having certain examinations done, and I'm gonna have
one of them done. Uh huh, go on with man,
that's it.

Speaker 6 (39:10):
Yeah, they're not bad, They're easy.

Speaker 4 (39:11):
You'll like it.

Speaker 6 (39:12):
You'll love the feeling never it's like it's like about
ten Budweiser's that nice feeling before you go sleep you by,
and uh, you'll enjoy it. It's not bad. It's really
not bad. It'll be a little groggy, you know, it's
not bad. And I'm sure they won't find a lot
of poll up, so you'll be great. This has turned
into one of your not commers. I'm sorry about that.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
What is on your mind? That sports related?

Speaker 6 (39:36):
Mike, Well, I'd love to be there before six, but
being out here, I couldn't even get back there until
tomorrow by six, So that question, but uh, I'm just
confused with with what has happened to lou Please no morrow?
What's happened to the guy?

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Mo? Well?

Speaker 6 (39:57):
How does the bottom fall out? Because tailor gets to
and and that leads me to another question real quick?
Do you think that jobs should be more delineated, maybe
even in college, between the coach sticks to coaching, the
GM and the player development guys stick with the drafting
and the free agency? In other words, do you think

(40:19):
coaches that get too involved in those aspects that aren't
coaching can can ruin things to a degree? And I
think Shanahan's been a little guilty of that.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Uh maybe, you know, I think that's kind of anecdotal.
I think there are there are coaches who have a
really acute knowledge of the player personnel side of it,
but could also be really good coaches. And I'm sure
I know there are also coaches who just pretty much

(40:51):
say like every coach has a say, Like, you know,
coaches don't just take the off season off. I watched
I watched an interview with a Read I think it
was prior to the draft in twenty twenty three, and
you know he was he was in the middle of
draft prep. He's not the guy who picks the players.
That's Brent Veach. He's the general manager, but he certainly

(41:13):
has input. I mean, why would you not take advantage
of his input. I tend to think of that if
I've ran an organization, I don't want people serving in
those roles because I'm kind of a believer that if
you have more than one job, it's hard to do
any one of those jobs really really well. And so
I want to coach, and I want that coach to
be really good at coaching, and then I want to
go hire the best personnel person I can find and

(41:33):
have that person be really good, but I need him
to be I need him to have a really good
working relationship. And they don't always have to agree, right,
I mean, you know, I don't want robots. They don't
always have to agree, but they have to have a
shared vision. But I you know, there have been coaches
in the NFL who have had extreme control over the personnel.

(41:55):
And there have been coaches. John Harball is one of them.

Speaker 6 (41:57):
Right.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
I've heard John Harball talk about this in Baltimore, where
he's had an incredibly successful run where you know, he
has said, like, I haven't put in the draft and
I haven't put in free agency, and there are players
I desire. At the end of the day, I'm not
in charge of the roster. I'm in charge of getting
the most out of the roster they give me. And
then there are coaches who have had and demanded more control.

(42:17):
You know, Bill Belichick did, certainly Bill Parcells did. If
it's me, I kind of want a coach and I
want a personnel person. But you know, not every team
is the same, and I don't think there's any one
way to do it.

Speaker 6 (42:30):
Okay, cool, I'm really you know, I think we all
thought the Eagles. Well, I know last year we thought
the Eagles might slide back, and this year they lose Kelsey,
But no, they're better this year without Kelsey. That guy
that kid they got playing center. They got out of
Iowa somewhere a few years ago, that Philadelpia. I think

(42:51):
they're gonna get in a super Bowl in Center Detroit.
I think it's gonna be the Eagles and the Bills.
What do you think that you had to pick?

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Now, I'll tell you what. I have a hard time
picking the AFC because I think you can find a
bit of an inherent flaw in each one of those teams.
If you asked me to pick one, I'd say Buffalo

(43:18):
because I feel like Cook has solved some of the
running issues. Allen hasn't made nearly as many mistakes. And
you know, they would have to beat a Kansas City
team that offensively hasn't been great, Pittsburgh team that offensively
hasn't been great, a Baltimore team that defensively isn't very
good and makes a lot of mistakes, and a quarterback

(43:39):
has got a very checkered postseason history. The Texans don't
feel like they're there yet. I guess Buffalo, but I
don't feel that strong about it. You know, Philadelphia's defense
as the season has gone on has gotten better and
better and better. But that Detroit team has looked all
season long like the best in the NFL. And since

(44:02):
they would be playing at home, I don't know that
I'm picking against that bunch, but I think in the NFC,
I think Detroit's interesting. I think Philadelphia is interesting. I
also really think the Green Bay Packers are interesting.

Speaker 5 (44:14):
Now.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Jordan Love throws a lot of picks, but I think
they have an elite coach. I think Love can make
some plays. They've won without him at times this year.
You know, Tony said this to me last week and
I echoed it yesterday. I think that's the best team
that nobody's talking about.

Speaker 6 (44:32):
Yeah, that's not a bad you know, really they think
about that for a minute like you always do. Can
I just do one quick basketball and one quick baseball
question and get out of your hair?

Speaker 2 (44:42):
Please? Do?

Speaker 6 (44:44):
Okay? Thanks? Well, I know you got time finscreen. So
you what, I don't understand this spread on the UC
game tonight. Does the team low to you? Is this
some kind of a I don't. I don't understand.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
So three and a half last I looked, is that
still the case?

Speaker 6 (45:00):
Yep, yep.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
Yeah. So I think what Vegas is telling you is
the Bearcats are good and should be favored, but they
haven't played anybody yet, and so you know, even though
they have gone on the road, and even though they
are you know, nationally ranked fourteenth in both major polls,
I think eleventh in the net rankings. I mean, they're
laying points at a big Eiet school. But I think

(45:24):
Vegas is telling you, yes, Villanova has lost four games,
but we're not sure we yet trust Cincinnati to cover
a big number on the road against a high major school.
And as good as you see is Villanova will probably
have the best player on the Florida to night and
Eric Dickson, and you know, he is a guy. He's

(45:45):
averaging over twenty five points a game, and to me,
number one, he's been really good at getting to the
free throw line. Number two, I don't know that UC
has a post defender that they could put on him
to slow him down. Now, they might try to do
something schematically and you know, throw a bunch of bodies
at him. But I as much as I love this
UC team. I don't know that they have a really

(46:08):
good post defender that can keep Eric Dixon from doing
what he wants to do. And so I think what
Vegas is telling you is number one, we like the
berit Katz, we don't love them enough because they haven't
given us reason to Georgia Tech is not very good.
They did go in the road and beat NKU, but
they were big favorites in that game, and so we'll
lay some points, but we're not gonna lay a big number.

(46:30):
And Villanova might have the best at least offensively, might
have the best player on the floor. If you watched
when Villanova played in Maryland, Maryland shot fifteen percent. And
the reason why I think U See is gonna win
the game tonight is I don't think Villanova can defend
Cincinnati on the perimeter. Eric Dixon was a man in
that game, was unbelievable, got to the free throw line,

(46:50):
scored thirty eight points. He is going to be a
very very tough task for you see. In terms of
an individual player, tonight, I do think that Bearcats have
the better team. I'm also really interested in seeing what
it looks like when the Bearcats get some resistance because
nothing against Georgia Tech, nothing against NKAU, nothing against the

(47:11):
schools they've played. Nobody really has proof, nobody really has
pushed back against them. UC hasn't really had to face
adversity on the floor this year. It's a pretty good
chance they face some tonight. How do they respond? I
can't wait to find out.

Speaker 6 (47:26):
Isn't it? Isn't it exciting?

Speaker 2 (47:27):
Though?

Speaker 6 (47:27):
Mo, I'm so glad. This is so exciting to see
the Bearcat basketball bag. I'm telling you, I'm giddy about it.
I'm absolutely giddy.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
Well, Mike, if you're giddy, how do you think I
feel you.

Speaker 6 (47:39):
Have because you're mister bear Cat?

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Well, I mean, you know, I had a conversation with
with somebody on the staff when when Wes Miller was
in the middle of year one, and I said, you know,
if you guys get this turned around, uh, you're gonna
see how much buzz your program can create. And I
think it's getting there. I think I think there's still
a lot of folks sitting on their hands wondering, Okay,

(48:02):
are they really that good? I think there's a lot
of folks looking at the Xavier game with great apprehension
and frankly understandably. So I don't think the Muskies are
as bad as they have played the previous two games,
and obviously that is a series where if it can
go against the Bearcats, it has. But yeah, I think
Wes Miller has a really good team this year. I
think they have not just an NCAA tournament team, but

(48:23):
a team that can go in the NCAA Tournament and
be a problem for people. I think they are hard
to prepare for. I think they are hard to defend.
I do think their rotation is gonna shrink a little bit.
But yeah, I mean it's been a while since they've
had a really, really good team. You have to go
back to Gary Clark senior year twenty eighteen, which was
forever ago. I don't know if this team can be

(48:43):
quite that good that was a two seed, but it
is great to have them nationally relevant again. Mike and
I am really excited. I can't wait to watch the night.

Speaker 6 (48:51):
I am too, and I'm happy the Red did something.
They got Winker because Winker can hit at least right handers.
And did they still have the guy I'm sorry, I
can't remember his day, the Hispanic guy that was such
a valuable utility guy last year. Did they still have him?
I can't think of his.

Speaker 4 (49:10):
Yes, yes, yeah good.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
And by the way, Jesse, the the Jesse Winker thing
is is not done. It's being rumored, it's not done.
Santiago Espinal will be back with the Reds this year. Yeah,
you're right. I mean in the role that he was
asked to play in was fine. Do you won him
starting one hundred and thirty five games for you? No?
But he played third, second, short, he played left, he

(49:36):
played right, held his own in each one of those positions.
Was not a total zero at the plate. If if
that's one of your guys coming off the bench, sign
me up. I have no issue with that whatsoever.

Speaker 6 (49:49):
Kind Keith Hernandez and a wife for the Dodger and
speaking of that, and then I'll shut up. I gotta admit,
these guys just keep on playing within the rules and
spending money because they snagged Blake Snell. I mean, and
it's unbelievable. Yeah, you know, I was.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
I was.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
I was off when that happened. And then there was
the invariable, you know, reaction to it, where people lose
their minds and the sport is broken. And there's two
different issues here. There's what the Dodgers did and there's
how the sport is structured. Don't blame the Dodgers for
playing within the rules. The sport has given them an advantage.
They've chosen to exploit it. Look, man, I work for

(50:25):
a major media company. We have advantages over Mom and pops.
We're not going to exploit them. So I do not
join the chorus of people who get mad when the
big market team. In fact that if I'm a fan
of the Yankees or the Red Sox, or the Mets
or the Cubs or a big market team, I'm wondering,
why can't our ownership and the Mets have done this?
But why can't our ownership show a willingness to do

(50:47):
what the Dodgers do, which is go over the luxury
tax threshold. So don't have any issue with the Dodgers. Now,
if you want to take issue with the sport and
say it needs a salary cap, well, then what you
want the owners to do is force the players to
accept one. And in the history of baseball, owners have
never done that. They never break the union. They know

(51:09):
what they should have done, And I didn't believe this
at the time, but I do now what they should
have done is in twenty twenty, the COVID year, they
should have shut down the sport and said, we're not
gonna play this year. We're not gonna have some Mickey
Mouse sixty game season. We're gonna go away, and when
we come back, we're gonna have a framework for how
the sport is gonna look moving forward. And maybe that

(51:31):
involves a salary cap. Uh, maybe that involves earlier free agency.
They didn't do that, and so the CBA they're playing
under is up in twenty twenty six, and I'm sure
it's gonna be contentious, and I'm sure they're gonna want
a salary cap and they're not gonna fight for it
the way you want them to. If you want the
sport to have a salary cap.

Speaker 6 (51:52):
Well, I'm Chuck Martin echoed out today when Tony interviewed
him from Miami, Ohio, he said, look, we don't have
any money for an eye and everything. But he said,
that's the rules. I can't dictate them. I have to
just deal with it and try to do our best,
and that pretty much thumbs it up.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
And he's doing a great job no question about him.
My guy got a run man. Great to hear your voice.
Take care of yourself.

Speaker 6 (52:13):
Okay, enjoydadlamensely, have a great one.

Speaker 4 (52:16):
Well, there you go.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
There are a lot of topics. There are a lot
of topics that I liked twenty two after four o'clock,
including Bearcat basketball. I think that game tonight's going to
be a struggle. I think you see has some good bigs.
I don't know that they have anybody who can guard
a player like Eric Dixon in the post. We will see,
But I do think it's I think when you I

(52:38):
think a lot of folks when they saw that Villanova
lost to Saint Jones, or they saw that Villanova had
lost four games, made the assertion that this was going
to be a walk in the park. And by the way,
I hope it is. I don't think it will be. Well,
I'll find out together. Tip off is just over two
hours away. We are late. You can watch that game
tonight here at Buffalo Wild Wings in Hamilton twenty two
after four o'clock ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
Station Cincinnatus is Football in the NATI brought to you
in part by modern opus methods on the official home
of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
More of your phone calls are coming up. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty broadcasting today from Buffalo Wild Wings in Hamilton.
We are thrilled to be here. Folks here are unbelievably hospitable.
We're here till six o'clock. I mentioned more of your
phone calls are coming up really quick.

Speaker 4 (53:32):
Here.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
I get a few Paul questions on X thanks to
United Heartland Insurance. One of them is the byproduct of
a bad season. When you're having a bad season, you
know what gets revealed are the deficiencies on the roster
and the deficiencies on the coaching staff, and the stuff
that populates a longer offseason to do list than any

(53:53):
over the last three or four years. Bengals need a
lot of really good players. That goes without saying, and
in order to get them, they're gonna have to use
the draft, and they're gonna have to use free agency wisely.
And it's what they need. What they need is more
than just a guy. They need more than just filling

(54:13):
a hole. And so you need money and you need
draft capital, which is why we've got to talk about
Trey Hendrickson. We all love Trey, one of the best
free agent acquisitions in franchise history. Having a terrific year
wasn't very good against the Steelers, but having a terrific
year plays his ass off. He is their one tradable asset.

(54:40):
A year left on his deal still playing at a
high level. Makes a lot of money. I know it
doesn't make the money he wants, but makes a lot
of money could get you a lot of return. Look
at all the needs the Bengals have, every position group
on defense, offensive line have to replace t Higgins, could
use a running back. You can't acknowledge all that and

(55:02):
then be against anything that enables them to add as
much as they possibly can. I hate to do it.
I hate that we're talking about this in the middle
of December. I wish we were talking about a playoff push.
We are not. What the Bengals have to do is
pretty comprehensive. You've got to accumulate draft capital. Who else

(55:26):
in this team can help you get it? The one
guy is Trey Hendrickson. They didn't trade him when he
requested a deal last offseason because they were trying to
win with him. This year. Are you winning with him
next year if you don't fix all the other stuff.
The answer is no. This is not about Trey. This

(55:47):
is not about He's the problem. Time to move on.
This is about I need assets. Trey Hendrickson represents my
best chance to accumulate some and I can free up
some money that I could use to address the any
number of areas they've got to address on both defense
and offense. Twenty nine away from five o'clock, more of

(56:10):
your phone calls are coming up. And have I told
you I'm ruin for Ohio State to win the national
title for two reasons? Those are coming up on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
You've been listening to football in Minetti on the official
home of the Bengals Cincinnatis.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Sports head Lines and service of Kelsey Chevrolette of lifetime
power train protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family
to yours for life kelseyshev dot com. College basketball busy nights.
Tonight UC and Villanova game tips off at six thirty.
The Wildcats are four and four on the season. U

(56:53):
SEE is six and zero games on seven hundred WLW
NKU is on the road at Akron take on the Zips.
A game can be heard tonight at seven o'clock on
Fox Sports thirteen sixty. Kentucky battles Clemson tonight. It's a
big week for the Wildcats with a tilt against the
Tigers this evening and then Gonzaga looming on Saturday night.

(57:15):
Also tonight, it's Indiana taking on Sam Houston and the
Dayton Flyers, the greatest seventh place team in the history
of the Maui Invitational, battling Western Michigan tonight. Seawn Miller
Show tonight at seven o'clock on fifty five KRC, and
it should be a very poignant atmosphere, very charged atmosphere tonight,

(57:40):
and Calgary is the Columbus Blue Jackets to take on
the Flames. This will be Columbus first game in Calgary
since the passing of Johnny Gudreau, obviously, the Columbus Blue
Jacket star spent his first nine seasons with the Flames,
was killed along with his brother in that tragic car
accident involving an alleged junk driver back on August to

(58:02):
twenty ninth, and so players are all going to be
wearing a number thirteen packs tonight it's going to be
a poignant scene in Calgary. Uh, what do we have?
Should we get to our pole question? Let's talk to
Mark Mark here on ESPN fifteen thirty. Good afternoon, Mark.
How are you?

Speaker 7 (58:18):
Hey, bo?

Speaker 4 (58:18):
How are you?

Speaker 2 (58:20):
I've never been better in my life? How about yourself?

Speaker 4 (58:23):
Great?

Speaker 7 (58:24):
Well, I got a couple of questions for you to
start to start the conversation. Who star? Who is the
star receiver for the Baltimore Ravens?

Speaker 2 (58:34):
The star receiver for the Baltimore Ravens.

Speaker 7 (58:37):
Yeah, who is the star receiver for the Buffalo Bells?

Speaker 2 (58:42):
Marik Cooper's been been a quality acquisition, but they traded
away their best receiver in Stefon Diggs.

Speaker 7 (58:50):
Yeah, who was the star receiver for the fifthbarsh Steelers.
You know you're still good?

Speaker 6 (58:57):
We've got we've got so.

Speaker 7 (58:58):
Many holes right now?

Speaker 4 (59:00):
Oh where the bank goes?

Speaker 7 (59:02):
I don't know if we can afford to have Jamar
Chase on our team.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
So you want to create another hole by getting rid
of a guy who is perhaps the best of his position.

Speaker 7 (59:12):
Well, you know how many good players could we get
for Jamar Chase?

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Uh? Via trade?

Speaker 4 (59:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (59:21):
I can't get I don't trust this, and I don't
trust us with draft picks, but I think in this,
in a trade, we could get a lot of We
could get a lot of players to fill a lot
of different needs that we that we have.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
Mm hmm, yeah, I don't.

Speaker 7 (59:36):
I just think that you.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
Would would would that would that affect what you did
with T Higgins? Then would you then want to keep
him or just lose both?

Speaker 7 (59:46):
Maybe? I mean I think that with an elite quarterback
by Joe Burrow, he can he can you know, he
can make these guys you know that are and look
at all the years with Brady, who did Brady have?
You know, all these guys with Joe Burrow, he can
make them.

Speaker 4 (59:59):
Better, you know?

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Yeah, I mean I certainly believe that there's some validity
to that. I don't know, man, I see where you're going.
But the one thing the Bengals do really well, I
don't want to cut into that. I don't want to.
I've watched them lose players in their prime and not
be able to replace them. They've got to find replacements

(01:00:25):
on the offensive line. They've got to find replacements in
the secondary, They've got to find replacements on the defensive line,
both inside and out. Do I really want to have
to go fine, not one, but two wide receivers. Yeah,
I mean and by the way, like I mean you
mentioned you mentioned the Baltimore Ravens, well, I mean they've
they've got a great running back. By the way, Zay

(01:00:47):
Flowers is having a very good year. I think in
the top five in receiving yards. I mean, it's it's
not like they have nobody playing wide receiver. George Pickens
has is going to have about a twelve to thirteen
hundred yards se and you know, it's not like Pittsburgh's
leading receiver is going to end the year with seven
hundred and fifty yards. I mean, those are those are
good players, not are Jamar Chase. Those are good players.

(01:01:10):
And by the way, players who with their teams are
going to make a lot of money because that's what
happens a wide receiver.

Speaker 7 (01:01:15):
Yeah, I mean, I hate to even I hate to
even say it, but it's you know, it's such a
guy to have Jamar Chase. You know, it's can we
really you know, can we get can we sell some
needs and and really get make you know, make our
team about better the offense is well, this is great.
It's unbelievable, you know, Yeah, but it's.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Great in large part because you have Jamar Chase.

Speaker 4 (01:01:35):
Right right right?

Speaker 7 (01:01:36):
Yeah, I understand that. But defense wins championships.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
Does it?

Speaker 6 (01:01:42):
No?

Speaker 7 (01:01:43):
I think so.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
I mean if if if if the Bengals had an
okay defense, they'd be a playoff team and might be
leading the division. And we wouldn't say they were doing
that on the strength of their defense, right right right.
I mean, I tend to think teams would champion I
think teams win championships. The whole defense wins championships. I

(01:02:04):
think teams win championships. But I see where you're going,
and I mean, I like, I see where you're going.
You could unload Jamar get a lot in return. I think, then, though,
you have really cut into the the true DNA of
your team and the one thing you have going for it. Now,

(01:02:26):
I'll acknowledge that when you are having the season the
Bengals have, there should perhaps be no one untouchable. But man,
I think that's really hard. I think that's really hard
to do. I think that's really hard. What I think
would be what I think would be fascinating, though, would
be to see if Duke Tobin's phone rings with the

(01:02:46):
team that's like, hey, we'll take Jamar Chase. Here's the offer,
and how seriously it would be mouled.

Speaker 7 (01:02:51):
Over right right again.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
And it's worth mentioning they've screwed this thing up because
now Jamar Chase is gonna cost so much more than
he would have had they signed him last year.

Speaker 4 (01:03:03):
Exactly.

Speaker 8 (01:03:04):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I I love I love kind
of bringing up somebody that, you know, bringing up something
that nothing, no one's gonna like.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
But I just I just Mark, I appreciate the phone call. Man.
I just don't know. I don't know that I could
do that. No one's untouchable. I don't know that I
could do that. And I see where you're going. They
have so many holes to fill at the same time,
Like you know, I was talking about Trey Hendrickson before.
Trey Hendrickson's a guy who's kind of I had to

(01:03:36):
say closing it on the end of his career because
he's still playing at a really high level. It's a
really good chance Trey Hendrickson's best years by the end
of the season will be behind him. It's a very
good chance Jamar Chase who is the best receiver in
the sport this season, At least for my money, there's
a really good chance he still has a lot of
years that look just like this. That's not a guy

(01:03:57):
you replaced and you can you could throw me the
whole thing out. Well, you know, the better teams in
the league don't have very good wide receivers. Well, Buffalo
was so satisfied with its wide receiver output that they
traded for one in the middle of the year. They've
also got a very good tight end in Dawson Knox.
Baltimore has spent the better part of the last decade
doing whatever it can define wide receiver help. Rashad Bateman

(01:04:21):
mentioned Zay Flowers. I looked it up as seventh in
the league in receiving. I thought he was going to
be in the top five. But it's just on the
outside looking in, seventeen yards away from Jerry Judy. Who's
where he is. After an insane night last night, the
Bengals got good when they got good at quarterback and
wide receiver. I don't know that. I don't know that
I want to change that, but yeah, I mean I

(01:04:43):
do think there's a I do think there's a non
hot takey argument out there that they might be better
off trading away a guy that they could get a
lot for. But trading Trey Hendrickson doesn't, doesn't cut into
your team's DNA, doesn't compromise what your team does best.

(01:05:06):
Trading away Jamar Chase does. Unfortunately, these are the sort
of conversations that come up when you're four and eight.
Like you might get mad at Mark for bringing it up,
and you might get mad at me for taking the
phone call. But when you're four and eight, unfortunately, a
lot of stuff is suddenly on the table that we

(01:05:28):
don't want to be on the table. There you go,
Maybe that should be a poll question. Twelve away from
five o'clock, we're here at Buffalo Wild Wings and Hamilton
on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. I just told
you Columbus plays Calgary tonight. Seven away from five o'clock,
we're at Buffalo Wild Wings and Hamilton. Our guy Sean

(01:05:52):
Sayat is going to be with us from a Summer
Sports I am eating some garlic parmesan wings. I need
a drink.

Speaker 4 (01:06:00):
Hang on.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
That's got some kick to it now Summer sports dot Com,
Sean said, coming up at five twenty and more on
the Reds and also the Golden at Bat which might
be coming to baseball, which I do not like this idea,
but I love where it's coming from. That coming up
in the five o'clock hour, we're giving away some cool

(01:06:25):
stuff thanks to a bud light here between now and
six o'clock. Come on out and join us. We touched
briefly yesterday on the Ohio State Michigan game and Ryan
Day's future and a lot of Ohio State fans are
mad at him. You know, it's it's interesting to me

(01:06:45):
in college football because of the playoff. We have made
every game in the regular season less important. And wasn't
that long ago you lost a game, you had no chance,
no access to the national time. And then we expanded
the playoff where we implemented the playoff, made it for

(01:07:05):
teams kind of forgiving. You could lose a game in
some cases too and have access to the national title.
We've expanded it to twelve. It's never been more forgiving.
We've made the games matter less. Doesn't mean the games
aren't awesome. I've enjoyed this college football season, maybe more
than any other when it hasn't come to the Bearcats.

(01:07:27):
We've made the regular season games matter less, and yet
with this one game Ohio State Michigan, we've made it
so that it's never mattered more. That doesn't mesh So
Ryan Day can't beat Michigan. The game on Saturday, I

(01:07:50):
thought Ryan Day coached a really poor game, and of
the four consecutive that he's lost to the Wolverines, I
felt like the one on Saturday was the one that
he was most directly was ponsible form I understand, man,
like I get, I get the rivalry. I've been told
by some Buckeye fans, you just don't understand. Dude. It's
not that hard. I get it. But still, maybe the

(01:08:12):
problem isn't Ryan Day. Maybe it's the fact that outsiders
have inflated the importance of the game. Ohio State still
has a chance to win a national championship, you might.
You might argue Ohio State has one of the better
chances to win the national championship. And yet I've I've

(01:08:35):
I've heard people like I've heard people that I know
that I trust, that like have put their names on
this that'll say, well, they can win the national title.
But it's hollow if I was Ryan Day. I do
everything I could to win the national title. I'm rooting
for this to happen because I don't think he's the
world's greatest coach. Dude sixty six and ten seems like

(01:08:58):
he runs this program with integra, feels like a good guy.
He's won a lot of big games. He's beaten two
Top five opponents this year, and yet we have chosen
to let him be defined by one game per season.
That's not a Ryan Day issue. That's a U issue.

(01:09:19):
If you're an Ohio State fan, I want Ryan Day
to win the national title. Like legitimately, I am rooting
for the Buckeyes to win the national title and then
for Ryan Day to go deuces out see you. I'm
gonna set out a year and then I'm gonna take
my national title with me and I'm gonna go somewhere
where we play a twelve game season and not a

(01:09:41):
one game season. I know I'm gonna be told, no,
you don't understand. I get it. I know what it's
like to watch your favorite school continually lose a rivalry game.
It stinks, But if it doesn't and in this day
and age, it doesn't necessarily keep you from playing for
national title. Ohio State's not gonna play for a Big

(01:10:03):
Ten championship this year. Let's be honest, No one cares
conference championship, No one cares. Are they gonna make the playoff?
The answer is probably yes. I think we have inflated
the importance of that game to such a degree it
is completely obscured and otherwise really good body of work.

(01:10:27):
I say this all the time. I'm a body of
work guy. Like you know, we talk about athletes. I
do this all the time because I'm a huge Barry
Larkin fan, and people will say to me, what about
when he ripped the captain c off? And it's like, okay,
eighteen year career, one thing you didn't like. I'll take
all the other stuff. I'm a body of work guy.
Ryan Day's body of work is awesome, and yet you

(01:10:48):
will find people who hate him because they've chosen to
inflate the importance of that one game. That's not a
Ryan Day problem, that's a you problem. So hell yeah, man,
I hope that dude wins it and says, see ya,
would he forego a lot of money? Of course, so

(01:11:10):
it's probably not gonna happen. I'll go somewhere where my
body of work is more appreciated, because my body of
work is really good. You legitimately will find people who
will say, well, now it doesn't matter if they win
the national title. Okay, well then don't watch. Those people
will probably still watch in an era where the games
matter less than ever, where the games don't carry nearly

(01:11:32):
as much weight. We have decided to put so much
weight on this one game that it takes a guy
who is sixty six and ten and obscures everything else
that he has done. That is not a Ryan Day problem.
That's a good football coach. Does he have his faults? Yes?
I think he stuck too strictly to the running game

(01:11:54):
on Saturday, without question, that's a game you can't lose.
It's not a game that should define you. We've inflated
this game so much that we're allowing it to define
coaches who are otherwise really really, really good. That's not
Ryan Day's fault. That's an Ohio State fans fault. If

(01:12:18):
that's the perspective you have if you're a Buckeye fan,
I know not all do say hell yeah, I want
your coach to win a national title. I genuinely do,
because I think he deserves it and I want to
go deuces and go coach at a place in twenty
twenty six where they play a twelve game season. Five
o'clock ESPN.

Speaker 4 (01:12:34):
Fifteen thirty, the Madero Road. I'm Nicole with traffic. This
report is fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:12:41):
What's up? We are late, so start at the hour
because I do not know how to read a clock.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank you for listening our mowegger.
We are broadcasting from Buffalo Wild Wings in Hamilton to
Bridgewater Falls, our second visit here. We've got the folks
from bud Light with us. We've got giveaways at the

(01:13:03):
end of the show. We're excited for that. It's the
bud Light five o'clock Happy Hour, which is a service
of bud Light. You can get five dollars bud Light
talls here at Buffalo Wild Wings and you could also
get buy one, get one half off Traditional Wings and
you could take advantage of this is the best deal
Man six for nineteen ninety nine. So you and your

(01:13:24):
significant other or a buddy, or maybe you're one of
your children, whatever, you too andres two sides and two
Fountain Drinks for nineteen ninety nine. You can't beat that.
You cannot beat that, So take advantage of that. If
you're looking for a place, if you're in the Hamilton
Fairfield area to watch the college hoops tonight, you see Kentucky, Dayton,

(01:13:48):
Indiana and Ku or whoever coming out. Tons of TVs.
Great weight staff. The folks here are very very friendly,
and we thank them for having us here at b
in Hamilton. Our guy, Sean Sayed Stats and Scheme podcast
is going to join us and about ten minutes he
broke down the Bengals film, which man again, better him

(01:14:11):
than me. I got to come up with new ways
to ask him questions about the Bengals defense. Denver's win
last night makes the Bengals Tragic number two. Any combination
of Bengals losses and Denver wins eliminates the Bengals from

(01:14:31):
postseason contention. And that doesn't even factor in the Dolphins
and Colts, who are ahead of Cincinnati. The Bengals are
not going to the postseason, we know that, but they
will take the field on Monday night mathematically alive. Mathematically alive,
maybe not realistically, but mathematically alive. There are five games

(01:14:54):
to go, which means there's a better than average chance
that the Bengals will play games, multiple games that don't
mean anything. Five games to go, there's a very good
chance the Bengals will play more than just Week eighteen
and have the game not matter. Meaningless games might matter

(01:15:16):
to the other team. Might met at the Denver Broncos
when they played them Week seventeen, maybe, but Bengals is
gonna be playing a lot of meaningless football here and
down the stretch. Do you want Joe Burrow playing in
those games? I know what many are gonna say. Look,
he's a competitor, he's gonna want to play. I respect

(01:15:38):
that one thousand percent. I hope that my franchise quarterback,
if we have a game, wants to be out there.
They're gonna be some who said, well, you have to
set an example for the other players on the team.
They're gonna be some who say you owe it to
the integrity of the league. There will be some who
say you owe it to ticket holders, ticket buyers who

(01:15:58):
have tickets to go see the Bengals play, specifically at
home when they take on Cleveland and Denver. Let me
ask you this. We've all kind of agreed. We don't
want Joe to play in games that don't matter in August.
Why then, do we want to play in games that
don't matter in December. I have a hard time. I

(01:16:25):
have a hard time believing that it makes any sense
to have him play in games that don't matter in December.
I'm guessing I'm kind of in the minority here. I
may I'm gonna protect the investment. Guy I used talking
about this all the time with Joey Vado. Protect the investment.
There is no bigger investment in the history of Cincinnati

(01:16:46):
sports than Joe Burrow, right, which is why I'm typically
okay with him not playing in the preseason. I don't
want him to play in games that don't matter where
you know he's at risk of injury, could be carted off.
The guy's had a hard enough time staying healthy. Now
you can at least hit me with the argument in August. Hey, look,
they've got to be better at the start of the season.

(01:17:07):
And that's one of the conversations we're gonna have this offseason, right, like,
how do they do a better job of preparing to
hit the ground running when the season begins, because they've
been so awful in September over the last couple of years,
and so does it make sense to put him out
there in games that don't count in August in an
effort to be better come September. What's the argument for

(01:17:29):
having him out there in December? What is there to
be gained in August? As much as I cringe the
idea of him playing in games in August, Okay, we
want to be better week one. What are you trying
to get better for in December when the games don't matter.
I know there's gonna be this real old school sort

(01:17:52):
of mentality that flies in the face of what I'm
getting at here. He's a competitor, he's being paid. Okay, fine,
Let's say Joe is playing Week sixteen against the Browns.
Something bad happens. Now Joe's twenty twenty five is in jeopardy,

(01:18:14):
or at least the start of it, because he got
hurt in the game that didn't matter. How would we feel?
So I asked this on X A whole bunch of
different poll questions thanks to United Heartland Insurance go to
UHI ins dot com. One of them is what should
the Bengals do with Joe?

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
Burrow.

Speaker 2 (01:18:34):
When the Bengals are officially eliminated, fifty two point seven
percent of you say they should put him on the bench.
I agree. What is to be gained, what is the upside,
what is the downside? What can be lost? Protect the investment.

(01:19:00):
Years ago, twenty sixteen, remember AJ Green wanted to play
on Christmas Eve against the Texans, and Mike Brown was
like the voice of reason who in Houston said like,
uh yeah, Aj, You're not gonna do that. And AJ
didn't like it. Like the competitor, I respected the hell,
respect the hell of it out of any competitor who
wants to give it a go. Orlando Brown was doing

(01:19:21):
what he could on Sunday. A coach should have stepped
up and said big, oh, this ain't happening. We're gonna
put somebody else in. Mike Brown in twenty sixteen with
Aj Green was the adult and said, look, man, you're
too important to this team. We're not gonna put you
out there in a game that does not matter. And
because it's Mike Brown, people got mad at him. Mike
Brown did the right thing. Somebody's gonna have to do

(01:19:44):
the right thing. With Joe Burrow. It's often been said
about Joe because he pushes himself in the offseason and
pushes himself in training camp, like, hey, you know, somebody's
got to tell him no, tell him no, here, Joe,
we're looking out for your best interests, Joe, We're looking
out for our investment. I'm not putting you out there.
I'm not saying on Monday again, Bengals will take the

(01:20:06):
field in Dallas. Realistically, you and I know they have
no chance. But fine, mathematically you want to put him
out there. I get it. You're running them out there
against the Browns, Miles Garrett, that team, putting him out
there in bad weather, putting him on the field in
a game against the Pittsburgh Steelers week eighteen, which who
knows what that's going to mean to Pittsburgh. Yeah, man,

(01:20:29):
Hard pass on that sometimes you got to protect the investment.
Sometimes you got to take the long view, and sometimes
you have to tell the most important person, no, Joe
Burrow doesn't play in games that don't matter in August.
I don't want him to play in games that don't
matter in December. You are welcoming the chime in on that.
Sean Sayan is going to join the stats and Scheme Podcast.

(01:20:51):
We'll talk about what he saw when he watched the tape.
I can't say it with a straight face, and Rob
Manford has a bad idea, but I applaud him for it.
That is coming up on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 3 (01:21:03):
Station run to you in part by blend Light and
by Skyline Shuley on the official home of the Bengals,
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
There are two things that happen on Tuesdays. We do
our show from Buffalo Wild Wings. Today we're in Hamilton
and we chat with our friend Sean Sayed. One of
the hosts of the Stats and Scheme podcast and the
author of the Monday Morning Mashup column is Shawn Not
with us? Do I have to fill a buster right now? Well,

(01:21:34):
Shawn will be with us here in justin second. He
is the host of the Stats and Scheme podcast and
he is also the author of the Monday Morning Mashup
column at suomer sports dot com. This guy is smart,
This guy is analytical. This guy like you know, you
and I watch football. This guy studies it. Hey, you
and I are football fans. This guy's football obsessive. You

(01:21:57):
and I think we know a lot about football. This
guy knows a lot about football, like like a lot,
like makes his living doing it, uh and has been
a tremendous addition to our show, joining us every single Tuesday.
Is he with us?

Speaker 6 (01:22:09):
Now?

Speaker 2 (01:22:09):
Tarren? The phone is ringing? Does Sean forget that he's
on with us? He retweeted my tweet, Oh did you
forget he was on with us? Oh? See, If I

(01:22:30):
was you, I would have come up with some sort
of excuse like, oh, the studio's on fire, the phone's
not working mo. And I do appreciate the honesty and
transparency because back in my day I would have totally
fabricated something. Sean's with us? Thank god, Hi, Sean? How
you doing?

Speaker 4 (01:22:47):
No, I'm doing well.

Speaker 1 (01:22:48):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:22:48):
I think back to early in the season. You know,
you were kind enough to have that on after the
Patriots game. I wasn't sure what I was getting into you.
He extended me the the kind invite to come on
every week, and now we're here after you know, having
four times were the Bengals lose, scoring thirty or more points,
tied for the most in NFL history. Fuilds like a
really crazy three months.

Speaker 1 (01:23:10):
Of the season.

Speaker 2 (01:23:11):
Yeah, you know, we had you on. You were so
good that I reached out to the intermediary that got
you on the first time and I said, man, that's
Sean Sayad. Guy was was really good. I enjoyed reading
this column, enjoyed having them on, and I thought like, man,
if we can con that guy into coming on every week,
this will be great. We'll talk deep into in the February.
And now here we are playing at the string. This

(01:23:32):
is not how I imagine that.

Speaker 5 (01:23:35):
Oh yeah we could have we could have hung out
in New Orleans.

Speaker 6 (01:23:37):
You know, we could have done a lot. I started down,
but but no, I won't say nothing.

Speaker 7 (01:23:42):
Nothing.

Speaker 5 (01:23:43):
Finga staling from watching the film every single week, and
I think there are nuggets of good, you know, as
you look forward to kind of the Bengals and they're
just roster building looking forward. Yeah, I think there are
some positive aspects.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
Yeah, but they're all on offense. I mean like that.
That's the thing. So at the game on Sunday, I
watched I watched it through that lens. Okay, this this
defense is getting worked by not a great offense. And
that's not to take anything away from Russell Wilson and
what they were able to do. But Pittsburgh is a
team that came in in the last few games hadn't

(01:24:18):
been all that productive offensively, and so I'm watching the
Bengals just get absolutely worked up and down the field
through the lens of all right, let's look at this player.
Do I want this guy back next year? And very
rarely was the answer, yes, like it. It feels like
the cupboard is. It's not entirely bare moving forward, but
pretty damn close. And that's frustrating.

Speaker 5 (01:24:38):
It's incredibly frustrating.

Speaker 7 (01:24:39):
You know, it's really frustrating.

Speaker 5 (01:24:41):
To watch on film. I know it's frustrating for fans
to be watching.

Speaker 4 (01:24:44):
At home as well.

Speaker 5 (01:24:46):
I do think when you start looking ahead to the draft,
I hate to do the hey, you know you gotta
start looking ahead to the.

Speaker 4 (01:24:51):
Draft this sort of thing.

Speaker 5 (01:24:52):
But you know, it is a draft loaded with strong
defensive players up fright, and I think that you're you're
gonna hopefully be able to find some help on the
back end as well. So and you look, defense is
year to year, they are so high variants. But when
we think about the Eagles, who I think have the.

Speaker 4 (01:25:06):
Best defense in the league, you.

Speaker 5 (01:25:08):
Could absolutely argue that they were the worst defense in
the league last year, and look, maybe the Bengals got
down from thirty second to first next year, but you
just have to be an average defense, that's all you
have to do.

Speaker 4 (01:25:18):
You do not have to be top five.

Speaker 5 (01:25:20):
You can be fifteen or sixteen or seventeen.

Speaker 7 (01:25:23):
The way that the offense has continued to play.

Speaker 5 (01:25:25):
And so you just hope that you know, the last
few drafts and some of the defensive players, they just
have not panned out to be what you want them
to be.

Speaker 7 (01:25:32):
So if you're able to fix up some of those.

Speaker 5 (01:25:34):
Personnel decisions, just got a hit on a few pieces,
you get you know, you get them turnover lock or
maybe something in your direction a little bit, and all
of a sudden, you're just back to the top of
the AFC North.

Speaker 2 (01:25:45):
The player on this year's team, at least defensively, that
has incurred the most amount of wrath is Geno Stone,
and I will admit I was excited when the Bengals
signed him because I felt like that that's a player
who's still he's still a sending and every year the
Ravens asked him to do more. He rose to the challenge.
This year he's done the exact opposite.

Speaker 6 (01:26:08):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
I look at him through very untrained eyes, and I
see a guy who takes bad angles when you watch
him more critically. Why has he been so bad? I?

Speaker 5 (01:26:16):
I do think, you know, the angles is a really
important thing, and that's really a theme for the whole
entire defense, like that not every miss ackle is created equality.
So you have the situations where a player, you know,
maybe they stop their feet and they launch, or they're
taking as you mentioned, like a bad angle where you're
going a little bit too inside. Maybe you think you're
getting there faster uh than the player that's gonna get there.

(01:26:37):
So there's a lot of situations there.

Speaker 9 (01:26:39):
And then you know, in coverage, it just it's it's
kind of a bit of everyone Like I'm kinda I
always have a hard time pointing directly, Hey it was
this person like I wanted to touchdown, Like it's you know, Mike.

Speaker 4 (01:26:49):
Colton gets beat.

Speaker 6 (01:26:50):
So it's like, all right, well, Geno Stone, like as
long as you're doing your aside, but you know that's
not fully on you.

Speaker 5 (01:26:54):
I just think that you're just not getting the exit
or like the play up the level of expectation. Uh,
and kind of what you say, I'm that player for
which is really really tough. You know, you can just
considering the safeties that have played for the Cincinnati Bengals
that are close near India to everyone's part listening, I know.

Speaker 6 (01:27:10):
So it's just it feels like.

Speaker 5 (01:27:12):
The personnel pocisions like that that just not in the
right spot. I don't know how much of it even is coaching,
just as when I look at it, it's just not
the most talented unit. So it feels like a combination
of everything. Where like you mentioned, the covered is there.
I mean, no, we need to buy a new cupboard.
We got to get like a face the wall that
it's covering, Like it really is like a tear it
down to the subs type job to just kind of

(01:27:35):
see what you can kind of put together going forward.

Speaker 2 (01:27:38):
I mean, this is not so much a question as
it is just a repeat of my biggest gripe maybe
of the season on Sunday. You know, late in the game,
they still have a chance, they get the ball back.
You know, Joe Burrow's got a shot. Justin Fields comes
onto the field third and four. Everybody with a remote

(01:28:01):
passing interest in the game knew what the Steelers were
gonna do and yet the Bengals couldn't stop it. Like
that's mo is that coaching? Is that just? Is that
just the bad? What is that it?

Speaker 6 (01:28:14):
Like?

Speaker 5 (01:28:15):
I mean, my my nephews that that like don't even
know what football is because they're so young. They know
that Fields's in there to keep the ball like that's exact.

Speaker 4 (01:28:24):
It's just such a frustrating situation.

Speaker 5 (01:28:26):
Where look the Steelers, I mean they get like two
tight ends to.

Speaker 4 (01:28:28):
The right side.

Speaker 5 (01:28:29):
They're running kind of like a zone read type play
where fields just kind of working in the second level
and the cornerback just get sucked in. Like it's just
it's just unacceptable at that point, I know, you feel
like it's at least partially on you know, the coaches
to make them aware, or obviously on the player himself
to be able to execute that job. It's just so

(01:28:49):
tough because you're right, like they mangles could have gotten
the ball back and it could have been at least
having a.

Speaker 7 (01:28:54):
Little bit more of a fun discussion. You get the
ball back.

Speaker 5 (01:28:56):
With what I'm right, even if it's like a minute
twenty left, I'm not sure everyone would be happy for
Burrow to have that situation. So, I mean, we talked
in Week one against the Patriots about cornerbacks having trouble,
half of the running backs on the outside, and now
you know, you get just sucked in. You haven't missed assignment.
You have a little bit of a mentaliyer and that
execution aspect of it is it's not the one reason

(01:29:17):
why you lost, but obviously it's the microposm of just
so many issues where it's the combination of player, it's
the combination of just the coaching and kind of what's
going on there where like.

Speaker 4 (01:29:27):
This you mentioned, I mean the Steelers offense.

Speaker 5 (01:29:28):
It's like it's not this like we're gonna set the
world on fire offense, but to turn in a day
or Russell Wilson has over four hundred passing yards I
think it was like two hundred of them, or after
the catch he's not even just throwing the ball deep downfield.

Speaker 4 (01:29:41):
Just a lot of frustration. I think.

Speaker 5 (01:29:44):
I think those film room meetings with the coaches.

Speaker 6 (01:29:46):
And that player may may not be the most fun
place to be the speak.

Speaker 2 (01:29:50):
Well, and you know, like there's there's and I've said
this this week too, there's a difference between your defense
gets beat and your defense shows no resistance. Right, it's
professional football. Sometimes the other quarterback is going to make
a throw and there's not a lot you can do.
Or sometimes he's going to make a play with his
legs and extend it and then somebody gets open on

(01:30:10):
the back end, and all right, it happens. You tip
your cap. Or sometimes you know a guy, a receiver
is covered well and he still figures out a way
to go get it. Like the other team makes plays
and you go, okay, well that's what happened to a
big deal. And then there's no resistance. And I think
that was the sobering thing about Sunday, And really, to me,

(01:30:30):
the word that I've brought up a lot this year,
it's it's it's just a defense. You don't have to
do a lot to beat them. You don't have to excel,
you don't have to go deep into your playbook, you
don't need superlative individual offensive efforts. When the opposing defense
shows no resistance in any area whatsoever.

Speaker 6 (01:30:48):
That's I mean, that's such a good point and that
game is interesting to look.

Speaker 5 (01:30:56):
Then the Bengals, but like Burrell put up a performance
against the Steelers, defense still though the Steelers provided resistance
right like they did make it a little.

Speaker 7 (01:31:05):
Bit harder on the bangles.

Speaker 5 (01:31:06):
They obviously created a bunch of big plays for themselves, so.

Speaker 4 (01:31:11):
You don't have that unfortunately in.

Speaker 5 (01:31:13):
This situation where it's like it's not like, oh, there's
issues with this scene.

Speaker 10 (01:31:18):
Particularly, it's not like the Steelers had the normal game
plan to have the bangles and some unique it's just
like snap after snaf just not beason enough in multiple stops.
Feels like the spots if they're sitting the wrong whongle for.

Speaker 5 (01:31:32):
Us not being a lessen the casles or things to
find any moves from from the opposite direction to this.

Speaker 4 (01:31:39):
It's just it's.

Speaker 5 (01:31:42):
Within the game now, within the weeks and unfortunately over
the entire team.

Speaker 2 (01:31:47):
Uh, this was cathartic.

Speaker 7 (01:31:49):
UH.

Speaker 2 (01:31:49):
I appreciate you coming on as always.

Speaker 6 (01:31:51):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
I wish the season would have gone better, but having
you joined me on Tuesdays has still been a lot
of fun. Thank you as.

Speaker 7 (01:31:57):
Always, appreciate them.

Speaker 4 (01:32:00):
It's great to talk.

Speaker 2 (01:32:01):
You're the best. Go listen to Shawn's podcast it's informative,
the Stats and Scheme Podcast, and you can read them
at Summer sports dot com. Look for the Monday morning
mashup column, sports headlines, Big College Basketball Night, and a
bad commissioner coming up with bad ideas and I like it.
I'll explain why I Next. ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 3 (01:32:22):
You've been listening to football in Minetti on the official
home of the Bengals Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:32:33):
It is eighteen away from six. This is ESPN fifteen
thirty on my leg Sports Headlines or a service of
Kelsey Chevrol home of lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed credit
approval from their family to yours for life, Kelsey chev
dot com. Loaded College Basketball Night. You see us on

(01:32:55):
the road against Villanova. That game will tip off at
six thirty than an hour from now on a seven
hundred WLW. Wildcats have lost four games this season. Cincinnati
has lost none. Bearkats are three and a half point favorites.
Kentucky takes on Clemson tonight. That game tips off at
nine thirty. Pre game coverage on ESPN fifteen thirty starts

(01:33:16):
at eight o'clock. NKU will battle Akron tonight on Fox
Sports thirteen sixty. The Sean Miller Radio Show is tonight
at seven o'clock on fifty five KRC Musketeers getting set
to go on the road take on TCU on Tuesday night.
Also tonight, Indiana Battle Sam Houston State. After a lackluster
performance in the Battle of Atlantis, and Dayton after a

(01:33:39):
good performance that resulted in a seventh place finish in
MAUI will take on Western Michigan Tonight, Columbus Bluejackets skate
against Calgary. Anything you might have missed on the show,
go get on the iHeartRadio app. This was floated in
a piece written by Jason Stark in The Athletic, where

(01:33:59):
he writes about Rob Man for floating the quote golden
at bat rule. The Commissioner of Baseball claims that the
golden at bat rule is I quote creating a little buzz.

(01:34:20):
The best way that I could explain the quote golden
at bat rule is the basic idea is that a
team would be allowed to pick one at bat in
every game to send up their best hitter, even if
it's not their turn at bat. So, ninth inning, two outs,

(01:34:41):
two on, down or run, it's Santiago Espinal's turn, and
Terry Francona can send up Ellie Dela Cruz. Even though
Ellie Dela Cruz is actively playing in the game, or
Spencer Steer or whoever. That's the basic framework of the rule.
Opposed to this rule because I I am. I have

(01:35:05):
embraced most every role change baseball has made, and even
one that I didn't embrace, I've come around on. I
didn't think banning shifts was going to work. It's been fine.
I'm never going to be on board with the magic
run rule in the tenth inning, but a lot of
the other stuff I love, limited pickoff throws, bigger bases, pitchclock,
good stuff. I do think with this you are starting

(01:35:29):
to go down a road that I hate to say
is compromising the integrity of the sport, but is cutting
into something that makes the sport a little more unique
compared to some of the other sports.

Speaker 6 (01:35:45):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:35:45):
I know what the basic idea here is, like we
want more key moments with the best players at bat,
great matchups, pitcher versus hitter, that sort of thing I understand.
But this, to me at least sort of strikes at
one of the things that makes baseball different from the
other sports, that there's a a a greater likelihood. But

(01:36:11):
it feels like in baseball, that there is a better
chance for a hero to emerge from out of left field,
so to speak, than there is in other sports. And
there have been, you know, heroes from out of left
field and football and basketball and the other sports. But

(01:36:32):
you know, to me, that's kind of what makes baseball unique.
And I'm not really doing the best possible job of
outlining this, but this, to me cuts into part of
the uniqueness of baseball just a little bit too much.
And so I don't like this rule. I do like

(01:36:53):
the fact that the Commissioner of Baseball is willing enough
to discussing and float ideas out there that might be
outside the box in an effort to make the game better,
more telligenic, more progressive, more appealing. That's a good thing.

(01:37:14):
I also like the fact that he's not treating things
in the sport as if they're sacred. In a few
years ago, we had the argument about, well, because of
heightening velocity in baseball, should we move the pitcher's mound back?
And I think there are lots of arguments in favor
of keeping it where it is. That makes sense from

(01:37:35):
a physiological standpoint, But you would hear people that treated
sixty feet six inches like it was sacred. There's nothing
sacred about it. There's nothing sacred about a lot of
things in a lot of sports that we treat as sacred.
I like the fact, and I'm not a big Rob
Manford guy. I like the fact that he's willing to
take some things that perhaps previous commissioners or a lot

(01:37:58):
of people would view as almost untouchable, way too sacred,
and he's willing to at least kick around the idea
of messing with those things a little bit. I think
that's good. I think that's healthy. I think when you're
trying to be progressive and forward thinking, you've got to
do some those things. I also think, like anybody who's

(01:38:18):
I'm just gonna say, been married, but anybody who's been
in a relationship has probably tried to do this. Sometimes
you'll throw stuff out there just to see what the
reaction is. I think Rob Manford's doing this year and
the Jason Stark piece. He references Rob Manford going on
a podcast, the Varsity Podcast with John Oran, which I've

(01:38:41):
actually listened to, and Manfred talks about like there's a
handful of rule changes out there, and he goes on
to explain the Golden at Bat rule. He doesn't say
he's going to implement it. He doesn't say, hey, it's
something we're targeting. He just kind of throws it out there.
Sometimes in life, that's what you do just to gauge
the response. If I wanted to go to London in

(01:39:01):
twenty nineteen, the Bengals were out there, I had been
there in twenty sixteen. Twenty sixteen, I didn't have any kids.
Twenty nineteen, I had a two year old. I still
wanted to go to London because some of my friends
were going, and so just in the course of conversation,
I just kind of throw it out there, it would
be kind of cool to go back to London. That's
my favorite all time city, just to get the reaction.

(01:39:23):
And when the reaction was like, yeah, it'd be kind
of cool, you should try to go, all right, let's
do it. I didn't say, hey, I'm planning on going
to London. I'm booking a trip to London. I just
sort of let's see what the reaction is. Let's see
I've done it before. You know, Hey, I want to
go to the conference tournament. That'd be kind of cool
to go out there to the Conference tournament. Yeah, well
we've got this plan, this plan, and this plan, so okay, cool,

(01:39:45):
guess what topics done? And you just kind of gauge
the reaction, right, just you don't ask, you don't go
ahead and say this is what I'm doing. You just
let's let's see what the reaction is to this. I
think there's some of that here where it's all right,
you know what, I've put some stuff that's worked. I've
put some stuff in that some people didn't like and
has been proven to work. And I've put some stuff

(01:40:05):
in that a lot of folks are never gonna like.
I think there's something about just kind of throwing this
out there and see what do people say, What do
people write? How opposed to the golden app bat rule?
Would people be? Like? I again, man, I've criticized Rob
Man for a lot. I think it's good to have
a commissioner that's like, all right, let's take a look
at some things, and they might be outside the box,

(01:40:26):
and they might not necessarily be the best ideas, and
let's let's take a look by the way. Minor leagues
exist for that reason, and a lot of the stuff
they want to put in baseball and have put in baseball.
The pitch clock was used for years in the minor leagues.
So I often criticize Rob Manford and I don't like this,

(01:40:46):
but I do like the fact that the commissioner is
at least not treating everything in the sport as if
it's sacred. That's a good thing. It's also a good
thing to come to Buffalo Wildwins. We love coming out here.

(01:41:06):
By the way, we are doing our show from beat
Ups next Wednesday because the Bengals play on Monday Night Football.
We'll be back in Cole Rain. We were in Cole
Rain in early October. We'll be back in Cole Rain
in mid December. That's next Wednesday, the eleventh on Stone
Creek Boulevard. We look forward to that. The staff here

(01:41:29):
in Hamilton has been awesome. Met a lot of cool
people out here. Thanks to Mike Mills for producing on site.
Thanks to Arren Bland for producing back in Kenwood. We
gotta go had a great night. Thank you for listening.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty and about light five o'clock
Happy Hour ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station

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