12/9/25 - The Mo Egger Radio Show - Mo Egger

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Ravens fly into Cincinnati for a battle with our Bengals.
Will sach Taylor's Orange and Black bust Baltimore in the
beak and whip up a win. Find out when you
get the call live from Dan Horde and Dave lamp.
The game kicks off at one pm, with coverage starting
at nine am.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Sunday.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Streams for free on the new and improved iHeart Radio
app or ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the
Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
What's up? It's three oh six. This is ESPN fifteen
thirty on Moolegas. Thank you for listening today. Hopefully you're
having an awesome Tuesday. We are posting up at Oakley Greens.
This is what I love about Oakley Greens this time
of year. It's festive. It's festive. You mean, there's holiday lights,
there's a Christmas tree made of beer kegs. We've got

(00:48):
Shibaka and Darth Vader holding a various Christmas paraphernalia. It's
but it's not in your face festive.

Speaker 4 (00:56):
You know.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
It's not like walking into a Chris Kindle market. No, no, no,
it's it's but if you're like, you know what I
don't want it to be that festive cool, then you're
gonna enjoy coming to Oakley Greens. By the way, right now,
if you buy one hundred dollars worth of Oakley Greens
gift cards, you'll get twenty five free, so you can't
beat that. Take advantage of that. It's an awesome place

(01:16):
to watch. Gee, we've got the college football playoff coming up.
You've got the Bengals. Bengals continuing in their pursuit of
an AFC North Championship, which the athletic tells me they
have a three percent chance of winning. You could watch
the game on Sunday. College college basketball is going great
in my life. So if you want to watch the
Bearcats play Georgia, maybe the Bulldogs have a player that'll

(01:39):
go off and score more than twenty points, and perhaps
they'll double team him. You could see if that happens
here at Oakley Greens. All sorts of stuff that you
can hang out here and watch. We love it. There
are gracious hosts. Lauren the bartender always takes great care
of us, and we love coming to this establishment. We're
out of the way early today at five thirty because
the UK basketball, So keep that mind. Our friend Paul

(02:01):
Danner Junior is here from the Athletic in the Grolar podcast.

Speaker 4 (02:03):
How's it going it correct? Yeah, it's going great.

Speaker 5 (02:07):
It sounds like, uh, you know, I think everybody's in
a very similar place with THEIRS CINCINNTI sports teams right now.
So we can you know, go ahead and keep that
tone rolling. You want to talk about Kyle Swarber, why not?

Speaker 4 (02:18):
Hey, how close? Were they not? Close? No?

Speaker 5 (02:21):
You know it was the uh you know, does he
want to come back here and play at home? There
is a way to assure that that happened. Yeah, do
you know what that is?

Speaker 3 (02:29):
You pay the man.

Speaker 4 (02:30):
You just you pay him.

Speaker 5 (02:31):
You pay more than anybody else is willing to because
it matters to you, because he'd be a perfect fit
for you if if that was the way that it was.

Speaker 6 (02:38):
Yeah, I am not.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
I'm genuinely interested in how serious the pursuit was. I
will look at this.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
I would admit.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
I will admit, like late last week, I'm like, all right,
maybe they pull this off. Maybe they pulled it. Maybe
they're like, you know what, this is our shot. We're
gonna like change our brand by financially coming to the party.
And making this work. Like I kind of to convince
myself late last week. I don't know why.

Speaker 5 (03:03):
Yeah, no, I mean it's it certainly doesn't fit any
of the rest of the strategy that they're going with
right now at this point at all. But I don't know, dude,
at what point do we say, oh, we give credit
for pursuit. I don't give much credit for pursuit. You

(03:25):
don't get credit for pursuit anymore.

Speaker 4 (03:27):
You don't get credit for pursuit.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
I don't know what happened to the microphone there, but no, no,
this is the bottom line business. And look what I
would say to the Castellini say, is in your decades
of running businesses, do you give credit for people who
try or to give credit for results. And that's how
I view this, that they get no credit for And
I'm sure there are people willing to give it to them.
Well they you know, they were kind of they were there, Like, no,

(03:50):
they weren't. There's no press conference there. You either got
to the number or you didn't get to the number.
There's either a press conference where Kyle Schwarber tries on
a jersey and then has your logo on it, or
there isn't and there's not, so that's all that matters.
This is results oriented.

Speaker 5 (04:04):
And it you may be able to find a better
way to make it work with the other plan, the
alternative to you know what that would have been, you know,
because there would be holes left if you were gonna
give this money and you're gonna have to trade away
Brady Singer or the other things that you would have
to do, and it would leave you short and you'd
have have bullpen depth issues or whatever. Maybe maybe there's

(04:26):
there's ways that this you gotta go win doing whatever.
But if you don't win and it's because you didn't
hit enough home runs or didn't have enough offense, which
has been a familiar theme around here, it's hard not
to look back and say, Ah, there was the investment
right there in front of you, the perfect fit, the
perfect guy, and just sit here and hit bombs for
the next five years and try to help you win
te And like.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
My question all along has been, this is not likely
to happen. So what's plan B. Like if you're pinning
your hopes on Kyle Schwerber's plan A, Okay, that doesn't
plant pan out. Can't get my words right? If that
doesn't pan out. Plan B to solve declaring issue as
it relates to lack of pop is what what's gonna cost?

(05:09):
Is it gonna involve a trade? Is it gonna involve
a free agent who's a little under the radar. Is
it gonna involve putting together an offense that doesn't have
that guy but still making it better this offseason? Like
what's if it wasn't Kyle Schwarber? What's planned B? Was
my question in October. It's my question here in mid December.
And I'm sure there are I'm sure there are answers.

Speaker 5 (05:31):
I mean, he's not the only guy out there, right
And and you know the idea of giving that kind
of money if you are on a limited budget and
it takes away from somewhere else, there's a diminishing return
element to that because you're taking away from another area. Now,
maybe you can add and not have to take away,
and you can build his strength whatever. I don't know

(05:52):
enough about what that the second, third, and fourth tier
looks like.

Speaker 4 (05:57):
But it needs to be something.

Speaker 5 (05:59):
It can't just be bet on guys getting better because
we've we've kind of been down and that's not a
disbelief in those guys you just us that can be a.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
Part of it, but that that can be a part
of it. I have a feeling that Plan B is
the next version of Austin Hayes.

Speaker 4 (06:14):
Yeah. Probably.

Speaker 5 (06:16):
I mean that's that's what That's what these That's what
it looks like in this model, right in the the
model of the teams that are the lower market teams
that are trying to find their way to moneyball the system,
so to speak, and and win more with less.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
That's what it has to look like.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
Let's talk about what does Sunday look like in Orchard Park.
That game on Sunday encapsulated my biggest gripe about this
team that Joe Burrow has to be perfect. Yeah, and
in the absence of perfection, they have no chance. And
Joe Burrow wasn't perfect. And look man the first to
admit his postgame demeanor told you everything you need to know.

(06:59):
He throws a pick six that you can't throw. He
knows that. Unfortunately it happened. They're not good enough to
overcome that. That is my single biggest gripe about the
Cincinnati Bengals, That it's built on the quarterback being superhuman,
which by the way for three plus quarters. He was like,
for three plus quarters, he was awesome, dude, Like, and

(07:20):
you talked about this on the Growlery like that was
a fun quarterback duel Alan Burrow in the snow high Stakes,
like late in the season, it was awesome. It's great drama,
great theater. Joe Burrow was terrific. The moment he stopped
the Bengals, chances of winning that game went away.

Speaker 5 (07:36):
Yeah, you can't. You can't make mistakes. You can't only
score thirty four. Yeah, thirty four, just thirty four.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
You can't. You can't do that. And that's.

Speaker 5 (07:47):
It's the it's the frustrating element, and it's it's why
we use terms like waste seasons and things like that,
because nobody, just nobody else has asked to do this.

Speaker 4 (07:59):
And I mean that, like.

Speaker 5 (08:01):
No one else is asked to go out here and
if we could be could be forty this week, Joe, Like,
that's not you know, Josh Allen, we saw him do
superhuman things on Sunday and he has done them plenty
in his career. He's not consistently asked to go get forty.
They have a bad defense too, right, But it's it's
not It's not like that, and I mean the numbers,

(08:24):
you know, I tweeted it after the game, but like,
you can't run from this. It's the defining stat of
the last two years. When they score thirty three or
more their four and seven and the rest of the
NFL is one hundred and thirty six.

Speaker 4 (08:38):
Ten and two.

Speaker 5 (08:40):
You can't lose these games. That is that is six
seven wins over the last two years. That because you
were just beyond comprehension bad on defense, you gave away
when your offense did more than enough to win it
for you. That's not on Joe Burrow. He wasn't perfect.
He was more than good enough to beat a playoff

(09:02):
team on Sunday. And that's the shame of it, because
any one of those plays, going back and doing the
rewatch of it and diving a little bit more in
the defense. We spent twenty five minutes at AL Golden yesterday,
I come away with a feeling of it where I
think it actually was very much in line with what

(09:23):
they have been over the last month, incrementally getting a
little bit better, only because we were previously only comparing
them to teams from the twenties and the thirties, but
still incrementally getting better. There's a goal line stand here,
there's a day of turnovers here, there's a couple of plays.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
What you're seeing Mike Paul coming from Miles Murthy and.

Speaker 5 (09:44):
DJ Turner and and you're they're not missing as many
tackles right like, you're seeing some of it incremental growth.
And I think you saw it in this game. They
were getting to the advantageous situations. They forced four fourth downs,
they got them to third and fifteen at the end.

Speaker 4 (10:03):
They all of these things.

Speaker 5 (10:04):
They weren't teams were not sniffing third down and long
earlier in the season. They weren't putting teams, especially good
offenses like the Bills, in to fourth downs that they
have to choose to go for. I think you can
see that. But the bottom line is our question going
into it was can they make the play? Can they

(10:25):
take the next step? Can they get the stop in
the fourth quarter? Can they make that one play that
changes the course of the game.

Speaker 4 (10:33):
And the answer was no, they still can't do it.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
There.

Speaker 5 (10:37):
Maybe they're better than they were, maybe it is coming
along a little bit, but by week fourteen, like it's
just got to start to get there, and it just
hasn't to this point, and that's unfortunate. It doesn't mean
that there isn't still something to the fact that it
has started to get a little bit better. That gives
you some hope that at least it's not going completely

(10:59):
in the opposite direction, which is hard to imagine. But
there's some of that, okay, but there's still nowhere near there.
They're still so far away, and it ends.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
Up think about how you'd be feeling what we'd.

Speaker 5 (11:13):
Be talking about right now if they made one of
those fourth down stops, if they get the interception from
Jordan Battle or DJ Turner or whatever. Think about that
they win this game and Burrow was what he was
just dialed in unbelievable. And they're sitting here and there
are two games back of the Steelers and they are

(11:35):
rolling in Burrow and everything. It is not just that
you're not wasting the season. This could be the most
legendary run ever. Like you're feeling it, you feeling that
is just that was a playoff team, Beals. The Bengals
played like a playoff team against another one in an
environment that felt like a playoff atmosphere. Burrow was doing
the type of stuff that you've seen him do and

(11:56):
you've imagined him being able to do in January, and
it's why you got this guy. It's why you build
towards late in the season. But you just can't make
one more play, right You can't make one more play
on defense. And that's the hard part right now, is
like they're just weren't asking for much and they still
haven't been able to.

Speaker 4 (12:15):
Get it all the way there this year.

Speaker 3 (12:17):
That's the lens through which I watched the game, specifically,
in the fourth quarter, they go up ten early fourth
Buffalo gets possession, and I'm going they get a stop here.
Game on. I'm like keeping an eye on Pittsburgh and
Baltimore and I'm thinking, okay, Like, if they close this

(12:38):
out number one, there is the tangible proof that the
defense is better when it needs to be. Get to
stop here, up ten points, close the deal on the road.
Then let's go fourth and goal. All right, get a
stop here, get a stop here. Gonna have to go
to length to the field, but still get a stop here.

(13:01):
Can't third and fifteen give up fourteen yards, give up
give up a fourteen yard pass, give up a fourteen
yard run, give up a fourteen yard trick play anything
but converting the first down right here, it.

Speaker 4 (13:16):
Is, it is.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
And if you give the ball back to Joe the
way he's playing in spite of the two mistakes, my
money is on him at least making this really interesting.
Right He's gonna have something to say about how this
game ends and maybe how this season unfolds from here
moving forward if you give him the ball, so al
your guys give them the ball. Didn't. So like that's

(13:38):
the lens through which I watched the fourth quarter, thinking
like number one, if they give Joe Burrow a chance,
they're going to win. And number two, when they win,
the conversation is gonna change, and we are going to
start to talk about them them at least having a
clearer path to pulling off the impossible. And yet, as

(13:59):
they have all seen along, the defense failed and the
big moment failed failed.

Speaker 5 (14:05):
Have not been able to get a stop in the
fourth quarter all year, all year. Yeah, in any spot.
I mean, and you're sitting here, you build the lead.
They played the game to essentially perfection before the Benford
pick midway through. I mean, you're up ten points on
the road. You're up ten points on the road. I
mean they they had they gotten that. They said, give

(14:27):
us the ball first, go out. We're gonna go score.
We're gonna jump out. We're gonna try to take their
running game and their crowd a little bit out of it.

Speaker 4 (14:33):
We're gonna get quickly.

Speaker 5 (14:34):
You score touchdowns on your first three drive, and you get.
You get the luck, they got a little bit. They
got the break with the slip, they get the red
zone thing. Then you get you eventually get the fumble
into the end zone by James Cook. You get a
couple of breaks even that fall your way to give
you some stops that maybe you didn't totally deserve. And
still with all of that, you're sitting there in that

(14:56):
perfect spot and you can't just finish a game. It
goes back to the Bears, it goes back to the Jets.
It goes back to all of these games where it's
been like, just get one single fourth quarter stop and
it can be done. They cannot close out anything. And
you know you mentioned the run by Allen, not third
and fifteen, but the forty yarder.

Speaker 4 (15:18):
You have an.

Speaker 5 (15:19):
Untouched head dresher, you have Cedric Johnson, and you bring
the blitz to get a free hitter like this is
what it's about. Now, you dial it up and here
it is and you can't even get your.

Speaker 4 (15:31):
Hand on it.

Speaker 5 (15:31):
You don't even take a tight enough angle to the
quarterback to get a hand in them. Well yeah, well,
when you're bringing blitzes and your free hitter doesn't even
touch a guy, guess what When it's Josh Allen, it's
it's gone. And on third and fifteen, when you apparently
have you know, players that won Geno Stone. I knew

(15:51):
you had to be enjoying that moment when it was
Josh Allen versus Geno Stone. Don't space one on one
for your season. You knew that was coming. I told you, Yeah,
I told you what I said. As the play is unfolding, heget.

Speaker 4 (16:05):
Here we go. This is the one.

Speaker 5 (16:07):
I mean, just imagine the stunning surprise if you would
have actually seen him make that tackle. But to me, though,
it's more it's it's Demetrious Night on the sideline, face
guarding like he's in a box and one defense against
a halfback, completely unaware that behind him, directly behind him

(16:27):
as a linebacker on the team, Josh Allen is running
to end your season. He's twelve yards downfield. Night hasn't
even turned around yet. Still is there not even a
roar of the crowd? Are you here to make you wonder?
Be curious what's happening behind you? I mean that's the
stuff like this is it's and it's you know, you're
fourth and three at the goal line, right, just get

(16:48):
it here at the end of the game that you
know they're going for the juggular, here's your chance to
have your goal line stand to crack back. And what
happens some dude just decides to just go out to
the flat and leave the tight end standing there all
by himself, right in front of Josh Allen.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
And you have that.

Speaker 5 (17:06):
You go through all of those fourth downs, any one
of these where it's like Joseph Osai on a fourth
down decides to try to do a spin move and
he just falls to the ground so Dion Dpkins can
stand on top of him and clear Josh Allen to
just buy two seconds to go out that direction, and
you just Miles Murphy taking an inside path and they
can't cover it on the outside. Like you know, there's

(17:28):
a lot of tip your hat to Josh Allen stuff.
But there's also just awareness on the field from anyone.
But it's stuff bad players do. They can't find a
way to make a play in the big moment, they
can't see what's going on, and they just consistently get
taken advantage of. And that's the story of this team
because it was built on poor players.

Speaker 4 (17:49):
Right now, here's.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
How demented I am in the fourth quarter, up ten,
even up three with the ball, I was gonna close
this out and we have an AFC North race and
the Bengals are coming home to play the Ravens. Yeah,
and the ruler of the jungle will be Kyle Schwarber.

Speaker 4 (18:12):
This is the moment.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
This is what. This is where my headspace was on Sunday.

Speaker 4 (18:18):
Oh, it could have been perfect, it could have been.
This is what this is what this is what it
would have been.

Speaker 5 (18:22):
This is when in the dream Cincinnati sports world, this
is how it all comes together.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
You know.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
That's in the fourth quarter. That's where my headspace, that's
where I am thinking.

Speaker 5 (18:32):
And I honestly, as we as we were sitting there
in the in the third fourth quarter, I thought, after
that unbelievable drive that ended in the Kasiki touchdown, Yes,
the winning the game.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
I did too.

Speaker 4 (18:47):
How about this?

Speaker 5 (18:47):
They came into Buffalo and did it again. They came out,
they executed their game plan and perfection. They just what
an unbelievable drive. That the type of drive you put
a game away with. Probably having watched this team for
for however long, should have known better. But it felt
that way, like it felt as much as it's ever
felt with this team this year, that they were in

(19:09):
complete control in a big moment. It felt that way
like Burrow had seized that for that with that drive,
it was like, Oh, that's the.

Speaker 4 (19:16):
One that we're gonna look back on.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
When Evan McPherson's pat went through the uprights, I went
to FanDuel dot com and their AFC North title odds
dropped to plus four hundred. Yeah, as low as they've
been probably since after Week two. Plus four hundred went
back up not soon thereafter. All Right, we're way late
twenty five after three o'clock. Paul Danner Junior latest Growler

(19:40):
podcast is out. Make sure you catch that and read
them at the Athletic dot com where at Oakley Greens.
Paul's here till four, We're here till five thirty on
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 7 (19:50):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 8 (19:55):
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Also still got that accident on Gilbert Avenue at Elsinore Place.

(20:17):
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I'm at Ezelek with traffic this.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
Week away from four o'clock, we're at Oakley Greens. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty. If you have not been to
Oakley Greens, check it out. By the way, the parking
is free, it's on site. TV situation is awesome. The
staff here is terrific. We love coming out here every
single Tuesday. Paul and I have more to discuss. Paul
Danner Junior from The Athletic and the Growler podcast including

(20:54):
y T. Higgins, was in the game on Sunday. Even
if he was awesome when he was in the game
on Sunday, We'll get to that. I'm back on ESPN
fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 9 (21:04):
Not just talk, This is sports with Soul, sweat and swagger.
Tony Pike, Sincy three sixty Tomorrow at twelve noon on
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

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(21:41):
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Speaker 3 (21:53):
It's our service of Kelsey Chevrolet, home of lifetime powertrain
protection and guaranteed credit approval. From there to yours for life,
Kelsey chev dot com. Kyle Schwarber is not going to
play for the Reds at least not in twenty twenty
six or twenty twenty seven or twenty twenty eight or
twenty twenty nine or two thousand and thirty unless the
Phillies trade into the Reds. I say that because he

(22:15):
has re signed with the Phills five years, one hundred
and fifty million dollars for the Middletown native. Ken Rosenthal
reports the Reds offer was five for one to twenty five.
We'll see what plann b is. Any Bengals news today,
any anything, Yes, there was a big Newsy day.

Speaker 5 (22:29):
They got the news out of the way yesterday. Yeah,
nothing yet today. College basketball tonight on ESPN fifteen thirty.
It's Kentucky battling North Carolina Central. Tip off at seven
pregame at five thirty. Also tonight, Ohio State takes on Illinois,
and Indiana Square is off against penn State. Hockey Tonight
the Blue Jackets skate on the road against Carolina Paul

(22:49):
Danner juniors. Here from the athletic We uh, We've hit
on a lot of things in a short amount of time,
and I have so much more. Yeah, the news I
guess will end up being if someone ends up claiming
Jermaine Burton, which is I guess interesting to see if
anybody thinks that that's worth a fire for them.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
I don't really have a Jermaine Burton question. Yeah, you know,
when it was important he was suspended, I thought like
the news would have been Jermaine Burton's gonna play.

Speaker 4 (23:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
So this this just sort of felt like either they
moved on at the end of this year, or they
moved on at some point during the season and they have.

Speaker 5 (23:23):
Yeah, it's it felt like, oh, Okay, finally, you know, I
mean that was kind of the the I mean, they
had more patients than I would have in terms of
how long the charades sort of went on this year.
But they, yeah, finally finally decided that obviously this is uh,
the trust is.

Speaker 4 (23:42):
Never going to come back between organization and player.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
Explain this to me. T Higgins was in concussion protocol
was last week. Yeah, right, was working out of it.

Speaker 4 (23:53):
It did work out.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
It did work out of it. Plays in the game
on Sunday, Yes, hits his head on the turf. Is
pointing to his head like, hey, hit my head on
the turf. His head hits the turf again in the game.
As he's playing the game and playing very well, it
looks like he's dealing with some effect. There's something there,
something that would make you think maybe T is not

(24:15):
all right, But they never take him out of the game,
and then yesterday we find out he's back in concussion protocol.
Can you make that make sense?

Speaker 5 (24:24):
Yeah, here's the thing, specifically, when it comes to concussions,
they're absolutely, unequivocally have to be guardrails in place to
make it so there is no gray area with this,
and there are, so the coaches and everybody else essentially

(24:45):
has to be taken out of the equation, and they do.
That's why the independent neurologists exists. That's why the guy
with the red hat takes you into the blue tent
and they give you the baseline test to test for
concussions when they take you in there. If you pass that,
that's all anyone can go off of. In the heat
of the game that's happening out there. He passes it, Okay,

(25:09):
he's okay. Then it happens again, take him in there again.
They do it again. In terms of it's it's the
spotter there's no saying that he definitely has it. Just
because a guy hits said it doesn't assign me he
has it. Says he's good, clears him to go back
into the game, whether whether it's making a decision I'm

(25:29):
deciding to keep you out or making decisions like get
back in there, those thoughts, those actions are taken away
from the staff, right and forget, And that's the way
that it should be. Yeah, so I don't I guess
I don't understand. I get what it looks like.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
Well, it's how it looks because then you find out
he's in the protocol.

Speaker 5 (25:51):
Well after the game, he reports that he was feeling
symptoms afterwards. Okay, that wasn't during the game.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (25:58):
Can can we then look back and say, t were
you trying to fake your way through it? Did you
successfully fake your way through it? Maybe that's part of
whatever happened with the neurologists, But to me, that falls
on the independent neurologists.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
Yes, no doubt, Well trust me.

Speaker 5 (26:16):
What or the entire process? My question is, I don't
know that there's I don't know. They certainly haven't come
up with a better way, and we know that they've
tried to.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
My question isn't based on a belief for an assumption
that the Bengals did something wrong. It was it just
it's how it adds up. He was in protocol. I
watched him. He looked like he was struggling by the
way he was also awesome on Sunday. Looks like he's struggling.
Then we find out, well, actually they put him in
the protocol because he reported symptoms after the game. Something

(26:46):
in that process seems broken.

Speaker 5 (26:50):
Trying to diagnose concussions is broken. Yeah, and I mean
generally like it's just it is it is. This is
the NFL gray area. Okay, of they don't really they
haven't come up with any fail safe you know process here.
There's no way to do it right in that moment

(27:10):
other than you end up sometimes taking people out of
the game that don't.

Speaker 4 (27:14):
Have concussions at all.

Speaker 5 (27:16):
Sure because you think that it looks like they might have, right,
and the PA and the NFL sign up for this process.
They abide by this process, and all they can do
is go with it. And I also do think you know,
I mean, I've certainly never played I played it in
some intense games in grade school when I played football.

(27:36):
I don't know what it's like to be out there
and go through one of these games where you don't know,
everything hurts, you're playing through stuff. It's crazy, Like I
can't imagine. I'm not wired like these guys don't do
anything like that. But I imagine there's lots of times
where once you get out of the game, the heat
of the game and it ends, and you're sitting there
in the locker room and you're able to, you take
more stock of how do I actually feel? So that's

(28:01):
probably part of this for Tea right, and for whatever
it's worth, and very little. He was very normal talking
like there wasn't any Do we hear stories of like
after a game where Chad Johnson was just like yelling
thing you right, and like pr had to come in
and stop it. Back in the day, This wasn't It

(28:21):
was a very normal conversation. I've talked to T, been
in parts of interview scrums with T many many times
sounded nothing different than normal.

Speaker 4 (28:32):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (28:32):
I think this is an inherent issue in the NFL.
Is it's just a gray area, man, and then and
all they can go by is whatever this independent neurologist
says that's all they can go by. That's how he
ends up back in the game, and that's how it
ends up after the game with someone saying, I'm feeling
symptoms now, and you end up back in the in

(28:53):
the protocol, and I'd imagine this will probably be a
longer stint there, and it may it may even end
up being the last we see of t this year.
I don't know, but you know, it's I it's it's
it's just a hard thing to navigate.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Uh, finding out that Trey Hendrickson is opting for surgery,
did that feel like an inevitable end to his season
and Bengals career? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (29:18):
Yes, this was where this ended, right, Like.

Speaker 5 (29:22):
There was this idea that, okay, well maybe if they
end up in something, he could come back later in
the year.

Speaker 4 (29:28):
But I think.

Speaker 5 (29:30):
It certainly feels like the timing of that was about
on point.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
Right.

Speaker 5 (29:35):
As soon as it feels like, okay, this thing's over,
we're just gonna move it on here and and and
move along, and you know, so it goes that. It's
the situation. I think it's pretty clear what dell this
is right now. It's yeah, it's it's again more gray area,
but the gray area of like how much could you pain?

(29:58):
Could you push through? Versus are you willing to versus
taking care of yourself and making sure that you're one
hundred percent ready by the time you get to free agency.

Speaker 4 (30:07):
And that's where it's at.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
But do you have a favorite all time Bengals Walter
Payton Man of the Year winner? It's no longer a nominee.

Speaker 4 (30:16):
It's a winner. Oh are we we are? They've changed
the verbont they've changed the verbage.

Speaker 5 (30:22):
Yeah, well it should be that, yes, And And you
know here, can I tell you something I don't.

Speaker 4 (30:28):
Like is teams have now in.

Speaker 5 (30:33):
The chase to win the Big Prize have had to
kind of try to find a way to work the
system where they're nominating the same guy multiple times. And
this is in no way it is no, no, no, I'm
not a digging that, but I'm just saying teams, I
think feel a lot of teams.

Speaker 4 (30:49):
Are nominating the same guy multiple times.

Speaker 5 (30:51):
It does help build your case to win the Big Prize, right,
There are so many players that do great things that
deserve more recognition for them, and and I just hope
people don't. I'm not saying anything that they should that
they shouldn't have a guy like Ted Carris be nominated,
like what he's done here is unbelievable. But I just

(31:11):
want to see more people recognized deserve it for what
they do on teams. I would love to see you
like you can only be nominated once, you only be
the winner once for a team or something like that,
just because I want to see more of the good
work that so many players do put out there and
money given to their causes and things like that and

(31:33):
help build up so much of what everybody else is due.
I would love to see that. But I because I
was curious and I went to look around, Like, man,
a lot of guys are being nominated a second and
third and however many times, I'd love to see more
of these causes that guys have got behind, and more
of the work that they've done get put out there
and so you can have more people benefit, like like

(31:55):
Ted has done with all the work that he has done,
and Sam Hubbard before him, and Carlos done that before him.
There's been a bunch of them. So you don't have
a favorite of my favorite Walter Payton Man of the Year.

Speaker 4 (32:06):
I mean, I think they've all been deserving.

Speaker 5 (32:08):
I mean, I think it's it's pretty I think Anthony
can Anthony muon you has to be my favorite.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
Well, you know, he won the big I guess my
of the Bengals nominee slash winners. And again they not
that it matters, but they changed the verbiage where it
was it used to be he's you know, fill in
the blank. Sam Hubbard is the Bengals nominee for the
Walter Payton Man of the Year, and they've changed it
to Ted Carris is the Bengals Walter Payton Man of

(32:33):
the Year. He wins their award and now he's one
of thirty two. I guess, yeah, I guess, so that's fair.

Speaker 4 (32:41):
I'll take it.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
I did listen to Drew Sample on the pregame show
on Sunday talk about some of the things he's doing,
and I thought, like, boy, that's there's a story there
that should be told. And nothing against the Bengals pregame show,
but like, this should not be the first time I'm
hearing of this.

Speaker 4 (32:59):
And there's stuff that lots of guys do.

Speaker 5 (33:01):
Yeah, and you know, and I think my cause my
cleats has been really good for that out and it
helped to get a little bit more exposure to stuff
that's out there.

Speaker 4 (33:09):
Yeah, I would just I would just like.

Speaker 5 (33:11):
To see more of those stories out there and given
money through the official NFL channels. I think there's a
lot that can be done using that the power of
that particular award, or have multiple nominees and a winner
on each team where you can then have three or
four different guys causes kind of get some get some

(33:32):
love and exposure.

Speaker 4 (33:33):
There's I don't know, I just think there's stuff.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
I agree that's well put. All right, Well, thank you
my pleasure. Back next week talking about the Ravens game.
It's going to be excited. I feel like the process
to make the playoffs is so simple now that I
haven't had to go to the playoffs simulator.

Speaker 4 (33:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (33:51):
I mean, well, there's a chance there's a chance that
Joe Burrow and Patrick Mahomes both end up eliminating from
the playoffs in Week fifteen this weekend, which.

Speaker 4 (34:00):
Is remarkable, isn't it crazy.

Speaker 5 (34:02):
There's there's a longer discussion that we need to have
this off season, and I think that that will have
be held a lot in NFL circles about why did
I why is this happening to not just Burrow, but
I mean so many of these big name quarterbacks struggling
even to get to the playoffs to be and then
having some of these teams built differently, uh that are there, yeah,

(34:25):
I mean that don't have that don't have the big
name quarterback that are showing up there now right now,
and just some of the roster construction I think, because
this is the first time it's felt like this in
a while where I think there's gonna be some interesting
roster construction fallout as we go through the off season.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
What if your general takeaway is Patrick Mahomes isn't that
good anymore.

Speaker 4 (34:46):
That would not be my general takeaway. I mean then
I don't know. I probably would mock myself.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
I guess, well, you can mock me, because that's kind
of where I am right now.

Speaker 4 (34:56):
It's, uh, you don't think he's any good anymore.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
I don't think he's He's We're now in this Mahomes
isn't good by his standards. Thing that we've now done
in consecutive years where he is still capable of doing
awesome things, he just set the bar so damn high
early in his career that I wonder if just like

(35:18):
he's come back to the pack a little bit and
the way he's played, which is still quite good, is
the new norm where I felt like at the end
of last year, everybody was like, ah, he wasn't great
by his standards, but he's still not yet thirty. He's
gonna flip a switch. He's gonna be super human again.
And that didn't happen in Kansas City this year.

Speaker 5 (35:36):
Is it possible, and hear me out that any quarterback
need the decent offensive line in order it would be good.

Speaker 4 (35:44):
Is that possible?

Speaker 5 (35:45):
It is that perhaps it just doesn't diminish the quarterback
when their offensive line is maybe really bad and they
have to try to overcome that.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
I haven't watched every Patrick Mahomes NAT.

Speaker 4 (35:59):
I'm not saying I've watched either, but I know their
offensive line is not good.

Speaker 3 (36:01):
Their offensive line is not good, and it got worse
on Sunday Night. But like I watch a lot of
Patrick Mahomes were just as a fan, I'm like, holy crap,
there's superhuman stuff going on here, and there just hasn't
been nearly as much of that. Maybe the offensive line
woes are the major contributing factor. But I it's that's
that to me is interesting. Does Patrick Mahomes turning this

(36:22):
superman again? And if the answer is no, can achieve
somehow reverse their fortunes.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
You do need some good players around you.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
It does help.

Speaker 4 (36:28):
Yeah, it does help.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
We can send some of the Bengals players to Kansas
City and see if Patrick can.

Speaker 5 (36:34):
Win with those guys, which ones all the defensive plates.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
Okay, Paul Dayler Tringer at the Athletic dot com and
the Growler Podcast. We are here at Oakley Greens. Paul,
thank you so much. But our guy Jeff Carr joins
us to talk about what's next since the redsident. Can
Schwarber next? On ESPN fifteen.

Speaker 7 (36:50):
Thirty Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 8 (36:57):
Traffic from the UC Help Traffic Center at U see Healthy.
more at UCHealth dot com. On the Ohio side, southbound
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(37:19):
delay back from Sinn Day Road southbound seventy five at
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Route twenty eight. That's after Buckwheat Road. I'm at Ezelk
with traffic.

Speaker 9 (37:31):
This report fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
All right, here we go eight out for four. This
is ESPN fifteen th boager, Thank you for listening. We
are late to the hour because I don't know how
to read o'clock. We're at Oakley Greens in Oakley, the
home of your office workplace, holiday happy hour. There's no
better place to post up and have a cold list.
In fact, our favorite bartender in the city is a

(37:56):
young lady by the name of Lauren, who is walking
towards us. Know she reads my mind. I'm ready for
a cold one right now. Right, it's a short show.
We're done at five point thirty. I'm ready for a
cold one. That's the bar. The staff here is so
good it's almost telepathic. They don't need to ask you
could I get you a beer? They just they know.
So Lauren's gonna bring one over, Maybe Drewby's gonna have one.

(38:17):
We'll see. We're done at five thirty. UK basketball, Let's
get right to it. Kyle Swerber is not going to
be a Red. He's re signing with the Phillies five years,
one hundred and fifty million dollars. Jeff Carr locked on
Red's podcast. You know it's it's because I was on
your podcast last week. I really late last week started
to think, you know what, this may happen. So I
kind of blame you for feeling disappointed.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
No, I agree with you. I started to feel this
way because you started to see a whole bunch of
things come together, albeit none of them were the most
important thing, which was the one thing that the Reds
just didn't want to offer up.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
So he signs with the Phillies. Re signs with the
Phillies were portally five years, one hundred and fifty mil
so it's being reported Ken Rosenthal had this. The Reds
offer was five years, one twenty five. What's your reaction
to that.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
I feel like the Reds were bidding against some sort
of ghost or or they didn't feel as though they
were bidding against teams with a lot of money, because
all reports that I had seen were looking at about
thirty million dollars a year, and so the Reds looked
at that and said, Okay, we'll go twenty five and
they come in almost an entire year's worth of money

(39:30):
less than what the Phillies offered. And we said all along,
we're like local, yes, love the team growing up, yes,
obvious connection, yes, but the money's got to make sense.
And in this case, the dollars just didn't make sense
because reportedly even the Baltimore Orioles had matched the Phillies offer,
and yet the Reds were unable to.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
If you make that kind of offer five years, one
hundred and twenty five mil, are you really being serious
about your pursuit of Kyle Swarming?

Speaker 2 (40:00):
No, because I don't believe that that was ever going
to be on the table. I think that there's a
very high likelihood that the Pirates were about the exact
same offer. And we all know when we hear that
the Pittsburgh Pirates are in on a player, we know
this is posture. This is them showing their fans that

(40:21):
they're trying. Kind of feels like we're looking at the
exact same at the Cincinnati Reds team. I get it.
They understood. They say that, you know, we only have
X amount of dollars and all this other stuff. But
this was an opportunity to change the narrative, to make
yourself legitimate, and they scoffed at it and they said, nope,
it's too rich for our blood. We got to move on.

(40:43):
And they said, this is our offer, take it or
leave it. And of course Kyle Schwarber got better offers.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
In your opinion for the Reds understanding their financial way
of doing things. For lack of a better way of
putting it, would five years and one hundred fifty million
dollars for Kyle Schwarber been worth it.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
I think so, because you're definitely getting at least two,
maybe three of those years of elite performance in the lineup,
something that the Reds have not had, especially in the
power realm. I mean, we're talking about a guy, you know,
former manager Dusty Baker said that he could have hit
seventy two a great American ballpark. I don't doubt that
there's some validity to that, but he certainly would have

(41:26):
hit fifty, probably would have hit sixty. And we're talking
about a guy whose pursuit of career home run marks
that would put him near the five hundred mark by
the end of this this this tenure. So I just
don't understand why they're going to kind of turn their
nose up at five million dollars more per year. This

(41:47):
is actually very similar to the reports that we heard
that the Reds had an offer on the table with
the Diamondbacks back at the trade deadline to get a
Euenio Suarez, and the reason that they chose not to
pursue the offer anymore is because the Diamondbacks won to
somewhere around four million dollars more in cash back in
the deal. And so it feels as though the one

(42:08):
thing that is untouchable in this organization is money.

Speaker 3 (42:13):
So no, Kyle Schwarber, what's planned B? I guess the
question is what should be planned B.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
What should be planned B is Pete Alonzo. But what
isn't planned B is Petere Alonzo, Cody Bellinger, Kyle Tucker,
the top shelf, right, the top shelf is just it's
a foreign concept to the Cincinnati Reds. And in fact,
I think Ken Rosenthal even reported in that same article
where he mentioned what the Reds offer was that the

(42:41):
Reds are not in on any of the other big
free agents. I think that there was a report that
said that the Reds are linked to Cody Bellinger. I
think the Reds are linked to Cody Bellinger, like I
am linked to the owner of Skyline, because I was
just there the other day to get me a chicken Toledo,
and I think that that's what we're talking about here,

(43:03):
Like maybe they came up in conversation a little bit,
but I don't think that there's any real interest there,
or at least any legitimate interest in giving the money
that they were going to give to Kyle Schwarber to
any one of these other guys. Because the one thing
that worried me the most MO is that it felt
like this connection between the Reds and Schwarberg was due

(43:25):
to one reason and one reason only, and it's because
he was local. And I think that we will be
talking about the red it is it is, But I
really don't see any other reason as to why this
feels like it was more legitimate than the Reds giving
any one of the other guys on the top shelf.

(43:46):
I think we're going to be topying about a second tier,
third tier guy that will hopefully bounce back next year.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
If you're interested in Kyle Schwarber, I don't understand why
you would have no inde pee Alonzo. Right, it doesn't
make any sense.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
He's younger.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
First, he's younger.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
War wise anyway.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Right, He's durable as hell. I mean, he's played in
I think one hundred and fifty two games every year
since he became a full time member of the New
York Mets.

Speaker 6 (44:23):
And defensive position, yeah, plays defense.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
Plays it. I do not understand for the life of me,
why if you are interested enough in Kyle Schwarber to
at least give him a figure that you wouldn't just
do the same with Pete Alonzo. Now, that may not
reflect with Pete Alonzo's serious pursuit, just like it might
not reflect serious pursuit five for one for Kyle Schwarber.

(44:50):
I need somebody who is much smarter than me to
explain why if you have interest in adding Kyle Schwarber
to your team, which recognizes not just that he's from Middletown,
but on some level the fact that they could use
a guy who could hit the ball out of the ballpark,
why would they have no interest at all in Pee Alonzo.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
I feel like they absolutely should, and in a apples
d apples comparison with the other teams in the league
that are going for the exact same thing that the
goal for. That's what we should expect as Red scends.
But knowing what we know about this organization for basically
the entirety of my life, unless everything else seems to

(45:30):
coalesce into this perfect scenario to bring a guy to Cincinnati,
i e. The King Griffy Juniors of the world. I
just don't understand how the Reds actually do that, because
they've never proven that in my lifetime, to go get
a guy like pie Alonzo who has no other connection
other than we offered him money and he agreed to it,

(45:52):
because it should be that way, Moan. I think the
Reds would be able to transform themselves in a very
similar fashion if they were to sign Pete Alonzo. But
there's a very good chance that they turn around and
they say, we give you five years, one twenty five,
and the Mets give Pee Alonzo four years, one hundred

(46:14):
and sixty or one hundred and fifty whatever. The math
ends up being that it's you know, closer to thirty
million than what the Reds offer, And I think that
that gets that done, and Peede Alonzo stays with the
Mets or goes to the Yankees or goes to the
Red Sox or something like that. It just it feels
as though the Reds continually have this idea of how
much a player should cost and that doesn't have any

(46:37):
bearing on how much other teams value players. And that
makes no sense to me.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
Jeff Carr locked on Reds podcast for another few minutes. Okay,
So if if it's not Kyle Schwarber, and then it's
not that like next rung of Pee Alonzo Cody Bellinger types,
and you're still holding out hope that they acquire a
player via free agency specifically, who would make sense? Who's

(47:03):
in that next here?

Speaker 2 (47:05):
So I'm looking at two different guys who would satisfy
the middle of the order idea, albeit one of them
is with power and one of them is just a
very steady hitter. Ryan O'Hearn, left handed guy, can play
first base pretty well, decent in the outfield, but not
like really grude, you look at him more as the
first baseman, but he would be a guy that you
could put behind Eli de la Cruz and feel good about.

(47:28):
And then Reeth Hopkins we had seen in Milwaukee, who
has the power, albeit it has health concerns. Both of
those guys feel like they fall squarely within the sweet
spot of what the Reds end up doing. I really
want it to be a ped Alanzo, but I just
don't think they're going to be in that market.

Speaker 3 (47:51):
Is there a slugger that realistically could be had via trade? Now,
when I say realistically, like if I'm trading away a slugger,
I either have a chance to win with that slugger
and I need you to give me something that maintains
my chances of winning, or I have no chance of
winning with that slugger and you're gonna have to overwhelm

(48:13):
me with prospects. Is there a like a middle of
the order beat that can give this team some pop
that realistically would make sense as a trade target.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
Looking at there's a guy that I would prefer the
Reds go for, But I think that this would be
a guy who would almost go in front of Elie
de la Cruz rather than behind him. He's Jared Durant
from the Boston Red Sox. Not necessarily a slugger per se,
like not a home run guy, but definitely a really
good hitter all around. The Red Sox reportedly want to

(48:46):
move one of their outfielders The problem is, I think
that will require one of the major league starting pitchers,
which once again the Reds have decided that are at
least reportedly saying that they don't want to trade from.
But I believe that you would have to give up
somebody like Brady Singer or Nicolodolo or somebody like that
in a deal for Jaron Durham, which goes back to

(49:08):
the reason of why we were so excited about Kyle
Schwarber and that it required only money and you didn't
have to get rid of anybody in your organization to
do it.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
Yeah. I mean, and look, I don't want to trade
any of those starting pitchers because I think the most
overblown thing is, well, the Reds have a surplus. Well,
if they did, they wouldn't have kind of run out
at the end of the season last year. But okay, fine,
if they're not going to pay top dollar for a
free agent slugger, then they're unless it's just scrape the
bargain basement, try to turn over stones and find hidden gems.

(49:40):
Then if it's addressed that area via trade, you're almost
gonna have You're gonna have to trade from your place
of strength. While I don't think they have a surplus
a starting pitching. Clearly, starting pitching is their.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Strength, right And I also think that, I mean, because
Boston's looking for a Gan, it's going to be at
the top of the rotation. Kind of feel like grades.
They're number two right now and they love Garrett Crochet,
but if they could get themselves another another ace to
go alongside them, I think that's probably who they're looking for,
which then brings in the Hunter Green thing, which Terry

(50:13):
Francona shut down yesterday. But I think that you're right, Like,
it feels as though the Reds have to do one
of two things. They need to either go spend money
for a marquee bat on the free agent's list, or
they need to spend the prospects or the the players
necessarily necessary in trade to acquire that big bat. But

(50:37):
it feels as though the Reds are telling us that
they're not going to do either one of those things,
and that they will continue to look for upgrades the
way they always have. And that's what worries me the
most about the off season moving forward, because it doesn't
feel like it feels like they're going to go out
They're going to sign Scott Barlow, Brett sueterback, and they
might even sign Miguel Andrew harback and say there we go.

(51:00):
Had an offseason and they just run back the roster
that they had from last year.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
I just I worry that on some level, we're just
gonna see another revolving door of Will Benson's, Jacob Herdabis's
new version of Reese Hines and look, man, they made
the postseason last year, but offensively they need It was

(51:26):
so obvious what they should do. And for me, man like,
I get it, it's not my money. For me, it's
add the slugger, send a message, enjoy the goodwill that
comes from it, and rebrand by extending your budget and
paying top dollar for Kyle Schwarber. I've made this point.

(51:47):
I've done it on your podcast, I've done it on
this show. There's a major difference between not having the
money for something and not being willing to go outside
your budget. This because of all of the tangible pure
baseball benefit, but all of the ancillary benefits. Kyle Schwarber
and Pete Alonso are the type of players that are
worth going outside your budget for, and in the absence

(52:09):
of that, I do not trust them, despite whatever goodwill
they may have built by qualifying for the postseason last year,
I do not trust them to solve this glaring issue
by doing a piecemeal or doing it with bargain basement guys,
or even executing trades. And so that's that, to me,
is why this is as unrealistic as it may have seen.

(52:31):
It's still disappointing for those.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
Reasons, right, and because making the postseason is the opening act.
I think if you look at it in the way
that everybody should, once you make it into the postseason,
all right, what are you doing next? For us? But
it feels as though we are hearing from the Reds organization. Well,
didn't you see what we just did? We we made
the postseeds?

Speaker 6 (52:54):
Yeah, we did that, So made it.

Speaker 3 (52:56):
In game one? Sixty two is the last seed when
the postseason's now been watered down. I don't want to
diminish that as as tangible evidence that what they're doing
has worked. But it's not. I want to win ninety
seven games and run away with the National League Central
and go into the postseason able to set up your
rotation and take a week off before Game one of

(53:17):
the NLDS and until they're in a position to do
that until you can look at their team and say
that is a bona fide possibility. I just don't take
them serious as championship contenders and so maybe next year.
Yet it's scrape by, barely get in and then they
get hot, but scrape by and barely get in and
then get hot sho and not be what you're hanging
your hat on. And it feels to a large degree

(53:39):
that that's what they hang their hat on. See what
we did last year, you know what, we win another
eighty three eighty four games, We scrape in and then
you know, who knows what's gonna happen. That shouldn't be
the goal, and yet it feels to a large degree
for a lot of fans like it is.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
It is, and that's that's what the messaging seems to
be coming out of. And may I also interest you
on top of that, they like to break even on
their budget too. That's that's another another thing that they're
really shooting for. And it's it's beaten. It's beat me down.
The last well four hours, I guess, is when we've
heard the news, but understanding like where the Reds were

(54:16):
in this process, where we thought they were and where
they ended up is what has kind of just flattened
me a little bit. And when you look at everything
that the Reds need to do, which isn't much, I
don't I don't feel like they've got to go get
half of a team. But if you go get a
legitimate slugger man, everybody else in the major leagues takes

(54:38):
you seriously. But that legitimate slugger is not Migueliandoor. That
is a savvy footnote of a move. But it feels
like we're going to be sold that as the feature.

Speaker 3 (54:54):
Frustrated.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
I want to I want, I want to like, I
want to bring a file to your I shouldn't.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
I shouldn't be as frustrated as I am because I
never I never looked at this as the likely outcome,
but it felt like a possible one. And it's just
such a missed opportunity. I've talked about this so much,
such a missed opportunity to send a surge of excitement

(55:24):
through your fan base, and I think there's so much
value to that that you can't necessarily immediately quantify or
judge in dollars. And I got to a point where
I at least allowed myself to think that it was possible,
even if I acknowledged it wasn't likely. And so maybe
I'm the full and maybe maybe we're all foolish for

(55:45):
believing they could get this done, and probably are so.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
I don't know. I also know too, you're you're very
much enthusiasm for wearing the name of another man on
the back of your shirt, and so I know you
were sizing yourself up for a number twelve Schwarmer jersey
and now you have to look at a number four
Noelvi Marte jersey.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
I like noelve Marte. I would have bought a cos
I would have if that's what it would have taken. Hey,
you buy a jersey, we sign them. I'd have done it.
Nobody asked me. But I I just I wonder. I don't.
I don't want to. I don't want to poop poo
what they did last year, because again, like you gotta
get to the postseason. You got it. I mean, that

(56:32):
was a big deal and it was fun. It was
fun watching them play those games in September, was fun
watching them play in the postseason, even if those games
didn't go well. But like my take from from the
moment game to an la ended is the next step
is the most difficult one. The next step is probably
going to require a major acquisition, UH to make the

(56:52):
offense dramatically better. I don't know that it's gonna come
from with it. That doesn't mean there's not room for
players who were on the team last year to get better.
That doesn't mean that a huge reason why the Reds
are better in twenty twenty six isn't gonna come from
improvement from guys who were here a year ago. But
and again it's just one guy. But to hear, you know, well,
they're not connected to any of these other dudes. And

(57:14):
then to make the assumption, and I think it's a
fair one that they were in on Kyle Schwarber because
of where he's from. Like, that's not how you run
a legitimate major League baseball team. So if Kyle Schwarber
was from Illinois, they wouldn't have been interested, Like are
you kidding me? Like that they were interested in because
he's from the greatest Cincinnati area. I want to tell
you that that's totally implausible. But knowing what we know

(57:36):
about some of the things the Reds have done, I can't.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
And that's what is the most maddening because the same
thing applies from Schwarber to Alonzo is that all you
have to do is give up.

Speaker 6 (57:47):
Some money and then you get the guy that you need.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
It's not the scenario where we were, you know, a
decade ago or twenty years ago or however long ago,
whenever they make this big trade or that big signing,
but it feels like they still need to put peace
is around that guy. This is the piece that they
put around the guys they've got, but they just don't
seem to want to make that move to get that
one piece. Pete Alonzo would make this team a National

(58:11):
League Central Division contender, and that is what people thought
whenever they were going after Kyle Schwarber, Miguel andwhrr Ryan
O'Hearn Reyese Hoskins. Don't do that.

Speaker 3 (58:25):
Uh awesome as always, Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
We'll chat soon, hopefully happier times. I appreciate you. Thank
you having me.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
You go, Jeff Carr. Check out the Lockdown Reds podcast.
We are insanely late. I've been awful with time today.

Speaker 9 (58:37):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Naddie brought to you
by bell Terra Casino and Belterra Park on ESPN fifteen thirty,
the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
By the way, hopefully green as gift cards, so you
know Christmas is coming sixteen days away. By the way,
Sanna's gonna be here on Sunday. And I maintain, like
the greatest get of all time. How they got Santa
Claus less than two weeks before Christmas to come here
to Oakley Greens amazing. It's one of the great like

(59:20):
gets of alt They have Anthony Munos on the twenty
first meet and greet before the Bengals game. That's big.
Getting Santa Claus like you get Santa Claus in November,
that's a big deal. Get what they had to pay
to get Santa eleven days before Christmas.

Speaker 4 (59:34):
I have no idea.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
So anyway, you can come meet Santa Claus and get
some Oakley Greens gift cards. And if you buy one hundred,
you get twenty five free. That's pretty good. One hundred
for your buddy, twenty five for you, or twenty five
for you and or twenty five for your buddy. You
know what, You divide it up however you want. Just
come to Oakley Greens, buy some gift cards, meet Santa,
meet Anthony Muno's and have fun. It's twenty three from

(59:57):
five o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 9 (01:00:00):
You've been listening to football in the NATI on ESPN
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Speaker 7 (01:00:12):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

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(01:01:17):
ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
Sixteen away from five. We are at Oakley Greens. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty. You know what would make a
great Christmas gift would be like an Oakley Greens T shirt,
some Oakley Greens gear. Like if if you did a
show every week at Oakley Greens and you wanted to
buy the person who was doing a show from Oakley
Green's a nice gift. That's what I would get them,

(01:01:47):
Like an Oakley Greens T shirt. Just great gift idea.
They sell those here. Let's take a phone caller to
UK Hoops at five thirty, the Walkouts taking on n
C Central. Our guy, Sean said, is going to join
us with some Bengals stuff right now, Sam and Independence.
You're on ESPN fifteen thirty. Sam, good afternoon, How.

Speaker 10 (01:02:06):
Are you, Heym, How are you doing?

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
Wonderful Sam, how about yourself?

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
Good?

Speaker 10 (01:02:12):
It was good to catch up with you. Fank you
game the other night.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
Thanks for saying Hiyah.

Speaker 10 (01:02:18):
Absolutely so I've been I've reached a point in my
adult life, being almost thirty, where I've decided not to
let sports in this city is affect by mood and
how I feel every day.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
Uh, how have you managed to do that? Because I
give you some.

Speaker 10 (01:02:39):
Help, I said, I'm trying. I'm not doing it very well.
Like it just feels so the right now. The Bengals
they're just bad. You see basketball, we know what we
know what they are. We you know, I knew they

(01:03:03):
were going to lose the Xavier and they did. If
we all knew they were going to lose his VI.
You see football, they made a ball. But they're playing
Navy in the Liberty Bowl and it's good, it's fine,
but it's just it's it's a disappointment from what this
was in October. And the Reds we just we've reached

(01:03:24):
the conclusion again that they're just never going to spend
any money to get a star. So I don't know,
maybe this is just a therapy session, but what what
what like? What do we really have to look forward
to in Cincinnati Sports. Ever, Well, this isn't This isn't fun.

(01:03:49):
This really isn't fun right now?

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Yeah, No, I mean that see's good.

Speaker 10 (01:03:54):
I guess I'll give the credit. That's pretty good.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
Consistent playoffs team, championship contender.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
Sam.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
I wish I had a bet answer for you, because,
you know, the Bengals by the middle of the decade,
this was supposed to be a championship was not guaranteed.
You know, when the Super Bowl ended after the twenty
twenty one season, most of us at least thought the
window was going to be open for a while. Doesn't

(01:04:24):
feel like it is right now, And I'm not sure
when the window for serious, serious contention is going to
be opened. It feels like that's going to take a while.
The Reds. I'm so conflicted because I think the Cincinnati Reds,
the state of this franchise is better than it was
four years ago. They were a playoff team this year.

(01:04:47):
They have good players, they have players that are worth
building around. They have players who may have underperformed last year.
But I'm I'm not convinced they're worth giving up on.
Like this isn't twenty sixteen or twenty seventeen when they
were not only losing ninety eight ninety seven games per year,
but you knew they were, like there's something there. But

(01:05:10):
it feels like the next step is the most difficult
and the one they're least likely to take, which is
go from a team that has a chance to be
in the postseason, has some nice play to one that
you look at and go, you know what bonafide powerhouse.

(01:05:31):
You know, getting into the postseason last year as the
last team in the National League. This fun, And again,
like I think it was important. I think if you
want to if you want to start building sustained success,
the first step is get to the postseason. That was
not insignificant, but it's now what and then now what?
I just I don't know how they achieved that if

(01:05:54):
they're not willing to go get the guys who are
the most obvious fits for their most glaring need, which
is somebody who can hit the ball out of the
ballpark on a consistent basis. I certainly will hear people
who say, look, Ellie's gonna have a better season, awesome,
But why can't Ellie have a better season protected by
somebody who's a bona fide slugger in the lineup. I'll

(01:06:16):
hear folks who say that some of the guys who
were on the team last year will just naturally perform better.
Matt McClain will be a year remove from injury. Fine,
why can't you still go get the guy who most
satisfies I guess the Schwerber thing for me is, if
you were willing to go five and one twenty five,
would they have completely thrown off the entire financial structure

(01:06:39):
of the organization if they decided to screw it, Let's
go five for one fifty, Like it's not apples to apples.
But I sometimes I'll go to charity auctions and I'll
see folks that like they're bidding on something, and somebody
will bid two thousand dollars, and then the next person
will bid like twenty two point fifty, and then the

(01:07:00):
person who bid two thousand, it's like, all right, you
won't go to twenty five hundred, like really, well, and
it's not an Apple's apples comparison, but like you were
willing to go to two thousand now, like the extra
five hundred bucks is gonna break you. And I just
I look at the reds similarly with the Schwarber think.
Kyle Schwerber on his own was not gonna guarantee the
Reds we win ninety five games, but he was gonna

(01:07:20):
most directly and most likely satisfy their biggest need. And
I just feel like, when you have a team that
has what the Reds have going for it, that money
is worth paying. You can get that money back, That
budget is worth extending, that budget is worth going outside
of for a player of that caliber. And to me,
this offseason, and who knows what's gonna happen in the

(01:07:42):
coming weeks, but this offseason was a genuine test to
see if they're willing to go to a length that
nobody thinks they will. And as it turns out, the
folks who don't think the Reds will go to that
length were proven correct. I rambled there, Sam for like
three or four minutes, and I apologize. I hope I
made some sense.

Speaker 6 (01:08:00):
Yeah, I agree, I'm just I'm just.

Speaker 10 (01:08:03):
And I'm not saying the Reds are bad.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
Like this is not. Again, Yeah, if the Reds were like,
if the Reds were bad, I wouldn't wanted to get
Kyle Schwarper. Like if the Reds were a bad baseball
team who cares about Kyle Schwarber, Go go build a core.
But they have, and so what are you gonna do?
That's next?

Speaker 10 (01:08:20):
Exactly good Kyle Schwarber. Put him in the lineup with
the twenty two Reds that went sixty three for what
sixty two in one hundred. He wouldn't made it if
they would have lost ninety five games? Right with this
team though, a team that won eighty that went eighty
three and seventy nine, Maybe that's eighty seven and seventy four.
Now that's a big difference. That's it's four games that

(01:08:42):
could you a division.

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
It could put you in the postseason and put you
in the postseason with ease, where now you go into
the postseason with a little bit more of a chance
because you didn't have to burn a guy you wanted
to use in the postseason in game number one sixty
one or one sixty two. Like I watched that team
all season long, you did as well, and thought, for
all the good things they had going for it, they're

(01:09:04):
better players they had, could use more protection, and they
could use a guy who's a certified long ball threat.
And maybe that player's out there. Maybe it is and
and and if it is and Nick Crawl acquires them,
then we'll call them the smartest person in the room.
But this, to me was so obvious. Here's a guy
who hits a lot of home runs. You need home runs.

(01:09:26):
This is you know you're right. If the Reds have
acquired players in the past where it's like, who cares
this team stinks, He's not gonna help. Schwarber would be
that if this team was bad, they're not bad. How
do they go from decent to really good? Kyle Schwarber
could have helped that cause dramatically. Sam, we could hear
the frustration in each other's voice. I appreciate the call man.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
Thanks Bob.

Speaker 3 (01:09:49):
All right, we'll spend a few minutes on this. Coming
up after the top of the hour. We're at Oakley
Greens in Oakley on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 9 (01:09:56):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center.

Speaker 8 (01:10:04):
At UC Health, you'll find comprehensive care that's so personal
it makes your best tomorrow possible. That's boundless care for
better outcomes. Expect more at UCHealth dot com. Northbound seventy
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still about a five minute to lay though back from
seventy four. Another accident westbound Norwood Lateral that is after

(01:10:25):
Montgomery Road. Some slow traffic as well northbound seventy one
between Dana and Ronald Reagan Highway. I'm at ezelic with traffic.

Speaker 6 (01:10:34):
This report is sponsored by all State.

Speaker 7 (01:10:36):
Some people just know I'm fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:10:40):
I don't know if you touched or carb with something,
but we've got people to want to talk. So eight
out for five esp at fifteen thirty, No Egger short show.
We're done at five thirty for UK basketball. We are
broadcasting today from Oakley Greens, which is the place to
be for all your holiday happy hours, the place to
be for the college football playoff, to be for your

(01:11:00):
favorite college basketball team, the place to be to see
Santa claus on Sunday, the place to be every Tuesday
when we come here. The staff at Oakley Greens is
unbe excuse me, unbelievable. By the way, they also have
gift cards. You can buy a gift card Oakley Greens
hundred bucks, you get twenty five free and for your
favorite radio host. You can also buy one of those

(01:11:23):
Oakley Greens T shirts. Uh, Sean Saya is gonna join
us in just a few minutes. But we have folks waiting,
and so we'll try to get to as many. We
don't have a ton of time, so I'll try to
get to as many as we can. Starting with Aaron. Aaron,
you're on ESPN fifteen thirty. Good afternoon, Aaron. How are you?

Speaker 6 (01:11:42):
I'm doing well though, how are you awesome?

Speaker 3 (01:11:44):
What's going on?

Speaker 8 (01:11:47):
So?

Speaker 11 (01:11:48):
I got a couple of things. Uh, the previous car
I was talking about how since he has nothing to
be like hopeful about, I don't know, Like I'm totally
with you on I don't one an average defense. I
won a championship defense. But when I saw on Sunday
against the Buffalo Bills, the Bengals looked damn good. Like now,

(01:12:12):
the defense couldn't get that, the defense couldn't stop a
sentence with a.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
Period, but.

Speaker 12 (01:12:18):
When it mattered at least.

Speaker 8 (01:12:19):
Uh.

Speaker 11 (01:12:20):
But but overall, I thought the Bengals played pretty well.
On another thing, with the kylesch forward thing, Listen, I
don't know if I fooled myself again, Like there's no
chance he was coming.

Speaker 13 (01:12:35):
Here right like.

Speaker 3 (01:12:39):
It does not feel like the pursuit was serious, and
most believe the pursuit was not going to be serious.
So if they weren't gonna be serious, if they weren't
going to be serious enough in their pursuit to make
the sort of offer that other teams were unlikely to match,
then no, there was no chance he was ever coming here.

Speaker 11 (01:13:02):
I also, this is kind of me just being a
Cincinnati fan for the last, you know, thirty years. I'm
thirty seven. So like, if Swarber gets that deal, man,
all we hear about is how he's not worth it,
just like how when we signed Vado, like all I
heard was Vato's not.

Speaker 13 (01:13:19):
Worth it, he's not paid the walk, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 11 (01:13:22):
I don't know that's I think that's just me being pessimistic. Well,
I appreciate you.

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
Brother, Okay, Aaron, thank you. I appreciate the phone call.
I think there's a little validity to that. I think
the problem is that Joey Vado conversation started in earnest
when the team got really bad, you know, or a
twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. Well he's not worth
it because the team around him is really I thought

(01:13:47):
Joey Vado for years was one of the best bargains
in baseball. I think if Kyle Schwarber was contributing to
a winning team, nobody would really pay that much attention
to how much money he was making, at least in
the short term. Bob. I got about a minute. What's up, Bob,
Hey Mo, how you doing?

Speaker 4 (01:14:04):
Man?

Speaker 3 (01:14:05):
Wonderful?

Speaker 4 (01:14:05):
What's up?

Speaker 13 (01:14:07):
Well, I've been struggling. Man. I got to tell you.
It's uh been rough down here. I've been, uh been
on the nicotine patch now for four months.

Speaker 3 (01:14:17):
Oh yeah, I've heard.

Speaker 13 (01:14:24):
No, it's not and uh I've never smoked, but I'm
trying to start and uh i uh I just can't
start cold turkey.

Speaker 3 (01:14:36):
For some of this, it's like a weird It seems
like a weird time in your life to take up
cigarette smoking, Bob. Most people, when they start that habit,
it usually begins pretty early.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (01:14:47):
Well, you know, I figured at this age, I mean,
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna come down with lung
cancer or anything like that. And I'm sixty nine years old.
I mean, my goodness.

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
Well, you know the fact though that it might not
give you lung cancer. It doesn't mean that the cigarette
smoking would be good for you.

Speaker 4 (01:15:04):
No, I guess.

Speaker 13 (01:15:06):
But hey, I did pay take part in one thing
yesterday that was good. At least, going in, I thought
it was going.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
To be good.

Speaker 13 (01:15:14):
Nashville had a walk for Alzheimer's and this was the
goofiest thing I ever saw, because what they have you
do is wander around the city like you don't know
where you are and stuff it. I got some sponsors
and stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:15:32):
I understand. Yeah, so understand, right, But did you at all?
Did you participate? Oh?

Speaker 13 (01:15:40):
Absolutely, yeah. And I don't know where I wound up.
I uh, you know, I talked to a doctor a
while back and he told me I needed to run
five miles a day. And I called him at the
end of the week and I said, hey, man, I'm
thirty five miles from home. I don't know how to

(01:16:01):
get back, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:16:02):
So, but pop coming to the table with Alzheimer there's
always funny Alzheimer's jokes.

Speaker 13 (01:16:10):
Well, you know, you have to laugh at it because otherwise,
you know, I mean, it's a I I I hate
to deceive myself. I mean, I I hope that I
never come down with it unfortunately are Unfortunately I've never
known anyone that did have it, but uh no, it's

(01:16:32):
it's tragic, and I'm I'm trying to make a little
light of it, but no, it's a it's a it's
probably the worst thing that's ever been out there for
for older folks.

Speaker 3 (01:16:40):
So I would offend, I would I would agree, I
would agree with your assessment. It's always a pleasure to
hear from you. But but we we have to move on.
Good luck with picking up the new habit. Okay, well,
thanks a lot man, You're welcome, Tara. How we on time?

(01:17:04):
Do we have time for one more? Do we dare
take one more? Do we think this is a good idea?

Speaker 4 (01:17:11):
Do you want to risk it? It's a risk if
we do.

Speaker 3 (01:17:16):
All right, Jeff, we got like a minute here, Jeff
go ahead, You're on, Jeff gone, Jeff is gone. Mike
is a is really good at a lot of things.
Brevity is not one of them. Do you think Mike
has like forty five seconds in them? Or do we
risk the mean email we get when we don't take
his phone call.

Speaker 4 (01:17:34):
Let's see if I can do it in a forty
five seconds?

Speaker 3 (01:17:36):
Mike, I got like forty five seconds here. Can you
avoid making any jokes at the expense of people who
are living with Alzheimer's Please?

Speaker 13 (01:17:47):
No, you just wasted fifteen seconds trying to decide. Never mind, Okay,
h Herbert gutsy performance last night, very gutsy with there
in crap chin on his arm, very gutsy. Yes, big admiration,
Edwin Diaz goes are the Dodgers. That's what we needed.
We got a big time closure now, and I'm real

(01:18:09):
happy Forber. Look you're gonna come here. Probably not. He
wants to get a ring, and he's got a much
better shot at getting a ring in Philly than he
does in Cincinnati.

Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
And uh, let's well, I don't, I don't. I don't
know that that last I don't think that that last point,
that last point is invalid at all, Mike. I think
if you're Kyleis Forber, who has a ring because of
his time with the Cubs, Yeah, I'm gonna get paid
a lot of money. Phillies could pay them more. I think,
objectively speaking, I can understand why he would look at
Cincinnati and Philadelphia and conclude that the Phillies represent a

(01:18:41):
better chance.

Speaker 13 (01:18:42):
Yeah, and he might really like Philadelphia.

Speaker 6 (01:18:44):
You never know.

Speaker 13 (01:18:45):
Sometimes people don't want to come home.

Speaker 4 (01:18:47):
You know.

Speaker 13 (01:18:47):
It's not like Darren Love with the home barrier. That's
not always the case. And the latest I heard was
now the Bengals Dolphins game has been flexed till four
am so that people can watch the game and go
to church.

Speaker 3 (01:19:03):
All right, Well I hadn't. I didn't know that, but
we'll add. Just start programming schedule accordingly. Mike, Thank you
as as always.

Speaker 13 (01:19:12):
Thank you, Mom, You're a good holman.

Speaker 4 (01:19:14):
I try.

Speaker 3 (01:19:15):
Kyle Schwarber may not want to go home, but I
kind of do. Sean Saya joins us next on ESPN
fifteen to.

Speaker 9 (01:19:21):
Thirty Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. Traffic from the uc Health
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(01:19:50):
back from Plainfield Road. Another accident on Erie Avenue. This
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Speaker 7 (01:19:59):
This report is sponsored by AT.

Speaker 9 (01:20:02):
This is Football I in the Natti, brought to you
in part by Postman Law and Vice Skyline Chile on
ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 3 (01:20:16):
Flat for five. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. We are
broadcasting from Oakley Greens. We are finished in like seven
minutes because we have a UK basketball game. But it's Tuesday,
and that means we talk with our friend, he of
the Stats and Scheme newsletter from Summer Sports dot Com.
Excuse me, our buddy, Sean, Saya and Seawan, how are

(01:20:36):
we doing?

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
No, I'm doing well.

Speaker 14 (01:20:38):
You know it's rewatching the game and you know we've
never talked about it. I personally am out on snow games.
I know the people of Ohio may not love to
hear that, but no, I feel like, you know, it
blurs the film. It makes a little bit harder on replay.
We have white jerseys now where we're not able to
see guys the same lit Why was it not thinking
of me when they were thinking about having these domes?

Speaker 3 (01:21:00):
Interesting? I think you're the first person to say that
I've heard say they're out on snow games. Interesting take side,
and that's okay. We'll consider it. We'll see what you're
trying to happen. We'll have a nice clear weather for
you on Sunday, even if it will be frigid. When
you when you watch other NFL teams and it's a
third and fifteen and the game is hanging in the

(01:21:21):
balance and the other team has a quarterback who can
make a play with his legs, do those teams typically
deploy a defense involving a spy?

Speaker 14 (01:21:30):
You know, I would actually say that the amount of
teams that are dedicating a full defender to being a spy,
that's probably a little bit lower than you actually think,
just because you're fully taking a defender out of coverage. Now,
I will say the way to kind of build in
a spy a little bit within your defenses. You're playing
that zone defense where you get eyes on the quarterback,
so you know you're passing rausos as the quarterback escapes. Hey,

(01:21:53):
I have a linebacker right there, So I think you
do have to do something to kind of stir the
pocket a little bit, which the Bengals did try on
that play, you're getting a little bit of a stunt
kind of on that right side. So I do want
to say across the league, it's less than you think.
Now what I again, Josh Allen probably right, Like you
do have to challenge those receivers, make them play one
on one where I think for a lot of the

(01:22:13):
day the Bengals actually work kind of comfortable in coverage.
So the real way for the Bills to beat you
there is going to be with a quarterback run unfortunately.

Speaker 13 (01:22:22):
So yeah, I think that.

Speaker 14 (01:22:24):
When I look at it, it's so easy to say, Okay,
you should have had a spy in candidly, yes, Like
I think that a lot of teams now will have
like three people rush and then one linebacker kind of
close to the line, so it kind of feels like
a four man rush, but really that second guy is
just sort of.

Speaker 10 (01:22:38):
There to help in case the quarterback wrong.

Speaker 13 (01:22:40):
Real well, bummer of a play to go through.

Speaker 3 (01:22:43):
Joe Burrow was awesome until he wasn't in the fourth quarter,
And you and I have talked about this. The Bengals
unfortunately aren't built for him to be human. They need
him to be superhuman, and he was human in the
fourth quarter, but for those three plus quarters where he
was awesome Schematically, what did you like about what the
Bengals did to the Bills.

Speaker 14 (01:23:02):
I mean, he was fantastic on all of his deep throws,
like really really, I mean I think he missed it
thro up here and there, but overall, just every single
deep path that you're able to be really really competitive
where across the league you're just not able to do
that all the time with every team, like every single
chance to really challenge receivers. I do think Christian Benford
obviously had the pick six, but he probably feels decent

(01:23:23):
about what he did to Jamar Chase on the whole
entire day. Chase obviously didn't explode, but you know Kee
Higgins across the middle, see Higgins on the outside, just
over and over wore Bros able to you know, extend
the play a void pressure offensive line. We talked about
it a little bit last week, said, oh, they're looking decent.
You're able to get a bunch of time for him there.
So it very much feels like still an offense where hey,

(01:23:44):
this is the players make play type offense and I
can draw this on a chalkboard, but Whene Higgins is
standing over you, you're probably not gonna be able to
stop him. So it was really really fun to watch.
And then you would fortunately get those end of the
game situations in the fourth quarter.

Speaker 3 (01:23:57):
Yes, yes, yes, the end of game situation in the
fourth quarter. Unfortunately, are you when you watch DJ Turner
in relation to and this is more of just a
personnel thing than it is anything you know that's that's
necessarily sche matter. But when you watch DJ Turner compared
to other CB ones in the NFL, how does he compare?

Speaker 14 (01:24:20):
So I think he might be on the kind of
bottom end of that list, maybe at the top of
the CB two lift absolutely a player that I want
on my defense. I like the way that he plays.
I forget if he had the passing difference in this
one or the last game. But you also see that
play where you're kind of undercutting that inbreaking route. It's
really close to becoming an interception. This is a player
that I think you want to have in your defense.

(01:24:40):
You should feel good about this. It's not the same
as saying, Okay, this is the defensive player that you're
a candidate, But I mean, how many teams actually have that?

Speaker 10 (01:24:47):
I just really have enjoyed watching him through the.

Speaker 14 (01:24:50):
Whole year because look, come out candidly. You know, I
didn't really know what time about DJ Turner coming into
this season, but now I get to see him every
single week. You can feel comfortable with him.

Speaker 4 (01:24:58):
On the outside.

Speaker 14 (01:24:59):
In this game, the Bengals played a ton of that
single high defense that can have you know, more players underneath.
It puts a little bit more on the place of
those outside guys. And part of that is because you
can do that when you have a guy like DJ Turner,
who you know, I guess I have comfortable call and
I'm kind of a CV one in this league.

Speaker 3 (01:25:15):
Yeah. No, he's he's played to that level. There's there's
there's no question about it.

Speaker 13 (01:25:20):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:25:20):
Are the Baltimore Ravens broken?

Speaker 13 (01:25:24):
You know?

Speaker 14 (01:25:24):
It sure feels like it. No, I will say when
I was I know that bengalsman's distraught after watching the
Bengals games.

Speaker 13 (01:25:30):
When I was watching the Ravens.

Speaker 10 (01:25:31):
Game, it's like, really like, where's the eregency here?

Speaker 14 (01:25:35):
Yes, you can look at like a place here and
there where if the rest can ends up falling out
of your favor, But it really just felt like, you know,
like this is your season that is on the line,
Like you have to be pushing. I think in a
little bit of a different way. So I don't think
it's that simple a thing. Oh, Lamar Jackson will get healthy,
they can flip a switch. I think you can really
attack these guys on the outside. In the past game,

(01:25:56):
Aaron Rodgers was just like out of nowhere, started just chucking.

Speaker 2 (01:25:59):
Up those old deep balls.

Speaker 10 (01:26:00):
I mean, we have a rosy touchdown from.

Speaker 14 (01:26:01):
Aaron Rodgers where Pittsburgh is really able to kind of
create a bunch of problems for them. So I absolutely
feel like it should be a competitive game because we've
won thought, you know against the Steelers where it feels
like the if the Ravens are the team that ends up,
you know, finding a way deep in the playoffs, I
think at this point I would just be really surprised.

Speaker 3 (01:26:21):
Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly. Should be interesting. On Sunday, Subscribe
to Sean sayat Stats and Scheme newsletter. It comes out
every week in your inbox on Mondays and Thursdays. Suomer
sports dot com. Check out sumer Brain. While you're at it,
we uh we got a run to make way for
a college basketball game. Sean but we love talking to
emil chat next week. Thank you as.

Speaker 2 (01:26:42):
Always appreciate I'm always having the best.

Speaker 3 (01:26:47):
Shawn say at Stats and Scheme Newsletters. Subscribe at suomer
sports dot com. We are done, uh thanks, thank you
to the staff here at Oakley Greens and looking forward
to being back here on Tuesday. Thanks to UH Drew
wester High producing on site, and of course our guy
who has I made his job difficult today because I
paid no attention to break times, Tarren Bland for producing

(01:27:09):
back in Kenwood. We are back tomorrow at three h five.
Have an awesome night. Thank you for listening, and we'll
talk to you tomorrow. UK basketball is next on ESPN
fifteen thirty. Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 9 (01:27:26):
You've been listening to Football in the NATI brought to
you by Cincinnati Tax Resolution powered by Tefe Sheldon on
ESPN fifteen thirty, The Official Home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 12 (01:27:41):
Wck Y, Cincinnati, the fifty thousand watt home of the
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ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 6 (01:27:54):
Kentucky on the Run. Welcome through Kentucky Basketball. Tell me
who's in now on the UK or up.

Speaker 15 (01:28:12):
This that Jack Perford shimerlet countdown to tip on the
blue fans, come on.

Speaker 6 (01:28:20):
Your's your host, dam Baker.

Speaker 16 (01:28:23):
Welcome back into the Champions Club adjacent to Upperna here
in downtown Lexington. Cats return to action tonight and put
the foot on the gas in terms of turning things
around as they take on you in C Central, Hi,
Get everybody. I am Dave Baker alongside Andrew Cappus, Cameron Mills. Wow,

(01:28:43):
if you're in our business, you have lost track of
the number of times that people have come up and
said since Friday night, what the heck is going on?
So you know you can ask about that stuff and
you're welcome to do that with us as well. You
can either call the UH Clark's Pump at Chop text
line at two three one two three four that's two

(01:29:04):
O three one two three four, or you can message
us UH at UK Sports Network on x and we'll
answer as much as we can. But the bottom line
is they got to get it done. It's a chance
to start that roadback and to see what kind of
changes Mark Pope has made since Friday. They have UNC
Central tonight, and then of course Indiana comes to town

(01:29:27):
on Saturday coming up. Over the next ninety minutes, we
will of course preview the matchup. We will hear from
UK head coach Mark Pope, We'll talk to the guys
who will bring you the action, the Voice of the Cats,
Tom Leech, and a Wildcat Hall of Famer Jack Goose Gibbons.
Andrew's gonna have scores for us UH from around the
COUNTRYTS and around the country.

Speaker 6 (01:29:47):
Then we're gonna talk a little.

Speaker 16 (01:29:53):
We'll talk about that and much more as we continue
on the Countdown to tip Off show presented by Jack
Burford Chevrolet here on the UK Sports Netflix.

Speaker 4 (01:30:03):
Let's go cast this.

Speaker 15 (01:30:07):
This is the check Perford Chevrolet Countdown to Tipoff on
the UK Sports Network.

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You fans, share a lot of Kentucky basketball. Is brought
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