1/7/25 - The Mo Egger Radio Show - Mo Egger

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
PN fifteen thirty You.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Sure have what's up gonna have to doing on my legger.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Thank you so much for listening.
Today we are I am at Twin Peaks in Westchester
on ESPN fifteen thirty nine. You might be going, wait
a minut Tonia Mo football show. No no, no, no, no,
no no. We did that yesterday TONI and Mo Football Show.
We did it with Tony and studio and me and

(00:23):
my house. But I wasn't gonna let the weather keep
me away from broadcasting from Twin Peaks one more time
until next football season. And so I put my foot
down and I went to management and I said, I
don't care. I don't care what you say. I don't
care what the local meteorologists say. I don't care what
anybody says. I'm going to Twin Peaks and we're gonna

(00:44):
bring some microphones and crap with us, and we're gonna
do a show. So we're here at the Twin Peaks
in Westchester, hanging out. We are on until five thirty today.
UK basketball bumping us out of the way a little
bit early, the Wildcats taking on Georgia, but the Roads
are in pretty good shape. I drove from the West
Side to here in Westchester. It took about the same
amount of time it normally does. We've got a great staff,

(01:07):
great menu, ice, cold beer, anything you could ever ask for.
We have a roaring fire that I shot the pre
show video from, so hang out. You sit by the
fire if you want. We are here until five thirty
typically on Tuesdays. I'm joined in person by our friend
Paul Daanner Junior from The Athletic and The Growler podcast,
a guy who has been very busy over the last

(01:28):
couple of days, and he's not with us here in
person because he's got a lot going on in his life,
both personally and professionally. But we've got him here on
studio on the phone and probably gonna ask him like
to stick around for multiple segments. So I'm giving him
a warning now because publicly on the air, he can't

(01:49):
say no to that.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
Hi, Paul, I appreciate the preemptive move by you there
to try to get ahead of it. Stay ahead of
it early, be honest, be truthful, right off to jump.
I'm here p as many callbacks as you need if
you need me to get you to five point thirty.
Then I'll do it for you. That's that's my level
of care for you and your show. I hope that

(02:11):
your listeners don't want that. Hope, I hope they wouldn't
want that. That sounds awful even for myself.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
I think they'd rather hear from you than me, especially now,
because there is a lot to talk about, and so
let me uh, let let's start with what's happening right now.
Bengals are interviewing defensive coordinator candidates. What can you tell
me about the two men who have been reported to
have locked up interviews with the Bengals. One of them

(02:37):
is the Raiders defensive coordinator Patrick Graham, and the other
one is DeMarcus Covington, the defensive coordinator of the New
England Patriots. Should I want any of those guys to
replace Luena Romo?

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Yeah, I mean sure, I don't think that that's bad.
I think you know, there's you're gonna see a wide
range of just and you know, names, but I just
think but of styles of experience. You know, you're gonna
see some people that have never been a defensive coordinator before.
You're gonna see some people that have been defensive counters before.

(03:12):
You'll see conversations at least with people that have been
head coaches before. I think the idea is take a
wide swath, get a good feel for everybody. But inevitably,
I think it comes back to a couple of things here.
I think what Zach Taylor is going to want out
of this is somebody who is hungry and still views

(03:34):
themselves as as motivated and a sending in their career.
I think there's value in that. You don't want somebody
who is got all kinds of experience but is just
looking for the next job. Right. That's a name can
sound great, but when they get there and they're just like, yeah,
I guess I'm gonna have to do this for a
while because I have to work, right. I don't think

(03:59):
you know that that can be a problem when you
when you hunt big fish sometimes, and so I think
that's the the parsing out that needs to happen is
is who is really motivated, who wants to come in
and feels like they are trying to prove themselves to
get to this next level that they want in their
career or to win as whatever is motivating them, but

(04:21):
to really feel that and so that's I don't think
it's necessarily about specific experience, whether the head coach DC
never been to DC. It's it's about it's about some
type of experience that you can feel really comfortable with
them leading the room and then match that with a
real motivated hunger and desire to go out there and

(04:44):
and get after it. And so finding that person isn't easy.
And this is These are the exact type of names
you would expect to show up people who are currently
DC's that are available, because this is a heck of
a job. Man, if you're a DC, you can't line
it up better than this. By the way, where if
you're like, Okay, yeah, all I gotta do is go
not be twenty eighth, and I might make the super Bowl,

(05:06):
I mean the bar is low, the stakes are massive,
the stage could be huge. Sure, it's a lot of pressure,
but you know, no one's asking you to go have
the number one defense and carry a team. It's a
great job with a chance for a big time you know,
ascension in your career. So I think, yeah, there's a

(05:28):
lot of people that will be interested in it, current dcs,
just about anybody. So they're they're trying to They're gonna
learn to check out as many people as they can.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, I mean, if if you're a co coaches love credit.
If this team goes eleven and six next year with
the seventeenth ranked defense in the NFL, the new DC
is gonna get a ton of credit, probably some head
coaching interviews. And also, like these dudes want their fingerprints
all over stuff, You're gonna have your fingerprints over the

(05:57):
makeup of the defense next year because I don't know
if a total overhaul is gonna happen, but there's gonna
be a lot of guys who get major run defensively
who probably aren't currently Cincinnati Bengals right now. Correct.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah, no, absolutely, I think that's gonna be a part
of it. I think it's two part. Anytime you have
a new DC come in, you got to figure out,
you know, what, what does your system look like and
and who here could fit it. And that's part of
why there's a lot of unknown. When Zach Taylor was
asked about a bunch of this stuff yesterday, you know, yeah,

(06:31):
Chuck Burks and Jordan Kovac's Zach really likes them as
a corner and safety's coach but the new DC is
gonna have some say in whether they say or not
some of the players currently on the roster, would they stay,
would they go? You can't really say that until you
get the coach in there, understand their vision, you know,
Gino Stone's a great talking point in this, like, is

(06:51):
a new DC gonna come in and say, look, I
know how this this guy can work in this system?
Or no, I mean, look at all the mistackles, look
at tape, look at look at all that he's He's
not He's not the type of thing. He's not a
starting guy. There's different players can be divisive, and and
so I think that a lot of it's gonna be
pick the coach, you like, let him come in and

(07:13):
and and try to try to mold it. But inevitably, Mo,
it's gonna come back to what we have talked about
this entire time, and and and and really what spelled
Leuin or Remo's downfall. You gotta get these young players
to play well. There the I it's it's chicken in
the egg at this point. Whether they're bad players or

(07:33):
they were coached strong, whatever, I don't I don't really
know that I have the answer to to whether it
was the you know, these players stink or they haven't
played well. But they haven't played well. These are guys
that were picked high in the draft. There were there's
eight of them still left right now, and we'll see
how many remain next year. There's a bunch of high
picks that have not lived up to expectation. Yet. You

(07:54):
need to be a coach that can come in and
turn these guys into quality players, to starting level players.
Maybe a pro bowler or two could bubble up. That
needs to happen. These are not nobodies. These are not
guys that would have gone in the seventh round if
the Bengals hadn't taken them. At least I don't think,
you know, and I think they're players that can play.

(08:16):
You've got to find a way to make it work.
You've got to find a way to get the most
out of them. That has been a problem, and that
was a problem specifically in the front seven, and that's
why you've seen some of the cleaning house that's happened there.
And the inconsistency has been a problem on the back end,
and that's why Luanna Rumo also is not here. That
was supposed to be his specialty, so all of that
stuff that's gonna be such a huge part of it.

(08:37):
So yes it will look different, Yes it has to
look different, But the core of it is this group
plus a whole new sloop and you know they're gonna
throw a bunch of picks at it this year. That
group has to be able to develop, become a young, exciting, fast,
aggressive defense. That's what they want it to look like.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
I hate that, This was my first reaction. I hate
to see people lose their jobs. Lou and Arumo had
a large, large role in this team's success in twenty
twenty one, in twenty twenty two, and I you know,
I said this to you a few weeks ago. The
fall here over the last two years has been sudden,

(09:21):
and it's been something to behold. Where here was a
guy that two years ago we were worrying, God, are
they gonna lose Lou Narumo. He was a hot coaching candidate,
at least we thought he was. He was in line
to maybe be the coach of the Cardinals. And now
two years later he's gone, And I think most of
us were okay with it. I guess my first thought was,
and I think a lot of people felt the same

(09:41):
way that you know, they played well down the stretch.
The defense is you know, for the most part, why
they won the game and kept their playoff hopes alive
on Saturday. I think there was a fear that this
franchise would again get caught up in putting too much
stock in late season, largely aimingless results, and that didn't happen,

(10:02):
specifically on the defensive side of the football. And so
as much as I hate to see people lose their
jobs and there were other assistants involved in here as well,
I took that, and maybe irrationally so, but I took
that as a bit of a positive. Should I have.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
Uh yeah, I think it's I think it's changed. I
think that it's it's a step in the right direction
from not being satisfied, from not saying, oh I saw progress,
build on it. You know, we saw that for years
when we were talking specifically about coaching. And this isn't
to pick on on Marvin or any of the staff
that he had there, but you know, we saw that
a lot that was kind of the that was the

(10:40):
annual right of winter was I don't know, those last
few games really made me believe in the next thing.
You know, it's been sixteen years, and so that urgency
you want to see that and the word you know,
I wrote about this, The word unacceptable was thrown around
a lot to me. And you can't say unacceptable. You

(11:01):
take that can't be a word that's used and and
then nothing happens that there's it's unacceptable. Then you're not
going to accept that things are going to change. And
there was no way around this one. I mean, there
just isn't. You're the biggest games of the year, the
biggest moments, the biggest portions of the schedule. There were

(11:21):
no excuses. Yeah, okay, when things simplified and a bunch
of young players actually got more playing time at the end,
things went better. Well, it can't take that long, Like,
it can't take that long to figure that part out.
I I pointed this out on Twitter and it got
a bunch of reaction, but I you know, it was
we were I was joking about when you sat there

(11:41):
and watched the game on Sunday, which of the seven
one score losses you go back and do you think
about most. A lot of people pointed to New England
and and there's and there's it was a fun topic
that that people ran with, but like to me, it
was that section of three games in the middle of
the season at Baltimore, at LA, the Pittsburgh game. You

(12:07):
had two months to figure out the defensive issue. You
knew what you were working with, you knew the problems.
You had to find solutions. Burrow was rolling, he came
back in LA. Jamar was on his way to the
triple crown. Trey Hendrickson is playing out of his mind.
You have all of these things happening, and you blow

(12:29):
multiple double digit leads in Baltimore, giving up touchdowns on
four straight possessions in the second half. You go to
LA and lay an absolute egg in the first half
and give up twenty four points, and LA just goes
up and down the field on you. And then when
you have your really back against the wall in the season,

(12:50):
back at home a week a bye week to get
things figured out against Pittsburgh, Russell Wilson throws for four
hundred plus and you give up thirty seven offensive points
to the Pittsburgh Steelers. It ended that day. It ended
that day, that section right there, at that point, it's
over you. That can't be something that happens, and I

(13:12):
think that's that's what it's about, like you, because there's
excuses in a lot of other parts, and I'll buy those.
Early in the season and things are different and you're
figuring stuff out, and no, this is disappointing. I didn't
expect that by that point. It can't be a thing
that the message is so lost that it looks like
that historically bad and that's there's nothing you can do

(13:34):
to come back from that.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
So you referenced your tweet from Sunday. I do have
my masochism rankings. You do, Yes, I hope, So, I hope.
So I'm ready for that. I'm gonna give them to
you here. I'm gonna give them to you here in
a little bit. I do want to talk about and
we got to get a break in, so I'm gonna
hold you through the break. I want to talk about
what you wrote about in the aftermath of yesterday morning's

(13:59):
news as relates to to Zach Taylor, and then a
few other offseason topics when we come back. Paul Danner Junior.
Follow him on x at Paul Danner Junior, Read his
work at the Athletic dot Com, and check out the podcast,
The Growler Podcast. As we say, where you get your podcasts.
It's eighteen minutes after three o'clock on Mowegger. Broadcasting today

(14:20):
from a Twin Peaks in Westchester on ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports.

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Speaker 2 (15:04):
We're broadcasting from Twin Peaks in Westchester today here until
five thirty. UK basketball bumps us out of the way early.
Paul Danner Junior with us from the Athletic dot Com.
And so you wrote in the aftermath of yesterday morning's
news that now the arrow gets pointed very directly to

(15:25):
Zach Taylor and the suddenly warm hot seat that he
is sitting in, And you made the point that coaches
don't get a chance for multiple staff overhauls, and when
you're replacing four assistants, I think that qualifies as a
staff overhaul. When Zach was hired, the Bengals made a
big show of it being this was Duke Tobin's guy,

(15:46):
right he was at the podium with Mike Brown and
Zach Taylor. The point was made, this was Duke's guy.
So if a coach only gets one overhaul, how many
coaches does Duke Tobin get to hire?

Speaker 3 (16:01):
I don't know the answer to that. I feel like,
you know, it's that that feels like a bit of
an untouchable situation, and that I don't because it's just different.
I don't you know, that would have to take a
truly disastrous run, and I don't think that they're near

(16:22):
that yet, so multiple I guess. I don't know that
I have a great answer for that.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
And Zach Taylor has had success, so you know, I mean,
you could say that Duke Tobin hired a successful head coach,
and I always going to go hire another. But I
I think that's I think, if if we get to
a point where in a year, and hopefully from my standpoint,
we're not there in a year, the Bengals are on
the outside looking in, and Zach Taylor loses his job

(16:50):
because of it, I think you're gonna have a lot
of people who go, yeah, but what about Duke two?

Speaker 3 (16:55):
And rightfully so, and I think that that is something
that you know, we're that's that's being said now and
and that's being called into question. You can only you know,
blame the coach so many times, you know, Okay, well,
it must have been the coordinator not getting the most
out of these draft picks on defense, because look, some
of the offensive guys are doing well. Amariusmims has done well,

(17:17):
Chase Brown has done well, Andreo Swash has done well.
You know, we've given all of these picks over to
the defensive side to haven't so it can't be the
personnel's fault. Okay, Well, if if then, if if things
fall apart with some of the other guys and a
new coordinator comes in and he can't get the most
vit or the trenches continue to struggle, you miss on
a few o line picks again, and yeah, I think

(17:38):
that that's that's all, that's all real. I just it's
so murky. It's it's you know, it's it's it's in
family business. And it's like, I don't, you know, I
don't know. I don't I don't know how how that
would go down or how long if that would ever
necessarily go down like that. I mean, at some point, yes,
I think they're far far from having those conversations. As

(18:01):
much as people don't like to to hear that and
think that someone can be that kind of untouchable, I
just think they're far far from that. There's too much
belief in trust in what Duke Tobin has done and
here in building rosters that they're gonna bail on him.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
If Zach goes into twenty twenty five with a hot seat,
does that come with a specific mandate make the playoffs
and you're good nine to eight on the outside looking in,
not good when the division advance in the postseason or
is that totally unknown as well?

Speaker 3 (18:40):
I don't think it's unknown. I mean Joe Burrow said,
what the truth is, you know when you have him
as your quarterback, and this is under assumption that you know,
Joe plays and is healthy and all those things. That
you don't make the playoffs, it's a failure, you know,
And you get to burrow to the playoffs, and you
know what can happen, and you know, you know what

(19:01):
it can look like. And and honestly, you know what
a Zach Taylor team looks like in December and January.
They they've played well almost regardless of situation in December
and January under him, certainly since since twenty twenty one,
they're twenty two and eight December in January in the
regular season, in playoffs since twenty twenty one. So you're
you're talking about it, you know, you know what that

(19:22):
should and can look like. That He's got to get
him there. And that's why I think so much of
this is about It does in many ways come down
to these starts, these starts, to these seasons and this problem.
Can he fix that problem? And where is there a
can he find the balance to to find the things
that can push and motivate and get guys playing cleaner,
higher brands of football earlier in the season without giving

(19:47):
up some of the long term freshness that he kind
of has has tried to make a part of the
calling card of a franchise. That's up to him. That's
a that's a hard thing to figure out. That's why
he's paid what he's paid. But yeah, I think making
the playoffs is kind of a bare minimum, uh that.
I think if if you can get you get yourself
into the tournament, you expect to make noise there obviously,

(20:10):
But yeah, if you if you if you're sitting here
at the same time next year and you went nine
to eight and started slow again and looking and it's
basically a repeat of this year, and Burrow continues to
look good because you assume he's gonna look good every
time he's out there. That's that's gonna be uh uh.
That's that's a tough one. That's a tough one to
survive because these are these are failed seasons. They are
wasting the prime of Joe Burrow, and you assume Jamar

(20:34):
Chase is playing uh for the team at that point
and everything else. So yeah, I think that's the line.
I think that's the line.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
The slow starts. So for for a lot of folks,
it's gonna be well, they've they've got to be more physical.
During training camp, they had multiple joint practices with other
NFL teams this year, right like it it felt talking
to folks like yourself who were there every day, like
things did get ratcheted up a little bit during in
the camp this season. You saw more guys of consequence

(21:03):
play in the preseason. You know, sure, maybe more guys
should play more. Beyond that, though, are there things this
franchise could do to enjoy better septembers.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
I think there needs to be a renewed sense of
importance in the spring and in the summer. I feel
that feels like something that has been just cast aside as.
I guess we have to do these to keep up appearances.
You know, we've called it country club summer around here
for a while. It's just like it feels like it's

(21:38):
non important and and there was an excuse for that
when they were coming off of long seasons in twenty
one and twenty two. And you know, you can give
they try to to trade these guys. You know, we'll
take it easy on you all through the summer, but
you'd be ready to go to the beginning of camp
and and well we'll help manage you and get you
to the end of the season. Feeling fresh on Sundays

(21:59):
like that. That's great. But I feel like when you
have problems with chemistry and young player development and all
of this, I mean you have to. I just feel
like you have to find ways to try to get
more of that. Is that gonna count in a bunch
of wins? I don't know, but I think I think
that's one that probably doesn't get talked about enough that

(22:20):
I feel like it's time to take that more seriously.
It's time to take that time and try to get
more out of it, whether that's more good versus good,
high intensity type of practices and doing whatever you can do.
And you know you're the rules do limit you, but
you know you certainly can be out there and be
more competitive with your best players that are there at

(22:43):
that time of year, and that's hard. A lot of
them don't show up and you go through that. But whatever,
I think you've got to take that more seriously, and
I think these guys have to. You have to get
real extended work for Burrow in the offense in the preseason.
I think he wants that. I think I think that
if it weren't for the injury stuff, the risks whatever,
that he would have been doing that this year. I

(23:06):
think the game against Pittsburgh where he had all the
turnovers the beginning of twenty two taught that lesson, and
he's wanted to do that since but not been healthy
enough to do so. Really, I think that's gonna be important,
you know, whether it's playing the first half of multiple
games to really get out, get that first game junk
out of their system. There's a risk in that no

(23:27):
one wants to go see anybody get hurt. But at
a certain point, like it's a game that these guys
are playing that they need to be more ready to
go Week one. Well, there's one way to go, and
that is to get the old Week one out of
your system before it counts.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
All right, I have two more players to ask you
about and my masochism rankings, but I do have to
get one more breaking. Are you okay with that?

Speaker 3 (23:51):
Let's go, Let's go. I like it all right?

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Good stuff. Paul Tayner Junior at the Athletic dot Com
on the Bengals will get to two players and masochism
rankings next, I'm a twin peaks in Westchester on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.

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The wives Chelsea tres Dog col Beangals reportedly interviewing Raiders
defensive coordina Patrick Graham as they search for new DC
to replace Low at a Romo DeMarcus, Covington. The Patriots
defensive coordinators set to get an interview tomorrow. College basketball tonight,
UC still looking for their first Big twelve win on
the road. Tonight against Baylor, tip off in Waco at

(25:13):
eight o'clock on seven hundred WLW Xavier hosting Saint John's
the Musketeers badly in need of a big East win.
That game tips off at six thirty on fifty five KRC.
Kentucky is on the road at Georgia. Dayton takes on
UMass and Amherst, and Miami battles ball State hockey. Tonight,
the Blue Jackets skate at Pittsburgh Paul Danner Juniors here

(25:35):
for one more segment. I promise, by the way, on
the defensive coordinator interviews, I know these interviews last like
four or five hours. This would be very simple for
me if Zach is doing the interviewing.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
Right, Yeah, yeah, he's part of it for sure.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
So the guy comes in and we exchange pleasantries, and
then we pop on film the first Pittsburgh game, third
and four, Justin Fields comes jogging out onto the field,
and I simply ask the guy, what do you think
the Steelers are gonna do here? And if if he says,
probably have Justin Field's run, then we advance to the

(26:13):
rest of the interview. If the coordinator's like, god, I
don't know, you know what, We're not gonna waste his
time or ours.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
Yes, no, that's the end the door. That's the end
the or I think you do that before you bring
the guy in for sure, Like that's it's it's a
it's an email. It's just an email with a screen
shot and it's just it says the situation and the lineup,
and then they get the email back Field is probably
gonna run and then you say, okay, we got you
a plane ticket.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
Right perfect, That's that's the first one. So like I
would advance to the next stage of questions because I
know the answer to that. Now from that point forward,
we all know I'm not qualified, but I would at
least get to Like I would get to what's next,
I would qualify.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
That's you. You thought the bar was previously low, that's
about as low as bar as he could possibly get.
I mean, I think even Josh Newton is now getting
over top of that bar.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
So yes, yes, no question. So God knows. We have
weeks to talk about t Higgins and free agency and
what they could do with players who may leave and
players they want to bring in. But last offseason, two
players asked for trades. One of them was Trey Hendrickson,
who was coming off a really good twenty twenty three,

(27:30):
two years left on his deal as for a trade,
doesn't get it. Since then, he's had a season that
has put him understandably so in the conversation to be
the defensive Player of the Year, ends up running away
with the NFL sack title. Has one less year on
his deal. So what's he going to do this offseason?

Speaker 3 (27:52):
It's a great question I have. I know everybody's doing
the offseason checklist. I heard you and Tony going through
it yesterday and I have it too, And I've got
all the things in here, and I have one in
the middle of it, and it just says Hendrickson and
I decided to go with eight question marks. It's just
I don't know. I mean, is he gonna is he

(28:12):
gonna want more? Is he gonna demand? Is it gonna
be like last year where it's you know, you know
he's gonna ask for more. We're gonna balk, he's gonna
play his face off. Anyway, he's in the contract here,
they can sit there and say, look, you go have
a good year again and you'll get what you want.
You'll hit free agency to they they talk about extending him.

(28:34):
I mean that would be out of the ordinary for
them with a player of his age now past thirty
or at thirty, So you're you're talking about things that
they don't necessarily like to do. There. Do they get
very forward thinking? Do you go, you know, old school
school New England style here and trade the guy one
year before to get premium value. You'll never have more

(28:55):
trade value than you have right now for tradeinders if
you actually do make a trade and not have to
pay that use that money to pay t Higgins and
acquire a couple of draft picks in the process. There's
a couple. There's a many different ways to look at it.
I would love to be a fly on the wall
for those conversations of what is the approach with Trey Henderson.

(29:17):
You have this guy who is everybody in the league
wants someone like this, but this defense needs a lot
of things. They also need to be young. So so
how are they going to approach him, and especially how
is he going to approach this? Is he gonna come
in throwing bows again or is it gonna be Look,
he's just gonna be solely focused on this one more

(29:38):
year until he hits free agency. It's fascinating, It's it's
under the radar. One of the most interesting things about
this entire very interesting offseason. I don't have answers on that.
I think those are going to start playing themselves out
once they get this whole coordinator thing locked in.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
Have they reached the point of no return with Jermaine Burn.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
Sure feels like it. I mean, I don't This feels
like a big It was already hard to say how
they could ever trust the guy again after the first
time this stuff happened in mid season, Right, I don't know,
it's okay to say with on that one. Right, it's

(30:23):
okay to say, shoot, took a chance, it was it
was turned out to be a bad risk. Let's not
let it eat up a second ear don't let the
same team beat it twice, Right, And so you're that
feels like what this is? I think this is this.
I don't know how you trust any of this again.
And I think they as a as an organization, as

(30:44):
a staff kind of had their hands up a little
bit of we don't really even know what to do
with this anymore. And so yeah, it feels like to me,
the easiest thing, the most obvious thing that you should
do is is just be done with it. If if
he goes and takes off and somebody else figures it out,
than good for them, you know, but it doesn't have
to be your problem. It doesn't.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Are they getting unfairly dinged for their evaluation of him?
And look they they've whipped on Jermaine Burton. It happens,
But like, say what to one about how they've built
this team? Their recent drafts have included the likes of
Marius Mims, who looks like a guy who gets it,
Chris Jenkins who looks like a guy who gets it,
Chase Brown, who comes off as a guy who who

(31:30):
gets it. Like, like, there's a lot of guys that
we could we could debate how good some of these
players are gonna be, but like, there's there's a lot
of guys even in recent drafts where it feels like,
you know, impressive young men and then you can go
back even you know, deeper if you want to, you know,
players like t Higgins, et cetera. Are they getting unfairly
beaten up for misevaluating or ignoring some things about Jermaine Burton.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
No, they're not not unfair. They should be getting get
beat up that they went away from who they built
the thing that way. They built the thing off of
going for the player who you can count on, who
it will matter more to, who will be reliable, who
will get the most out of what they have, rather
than these you know, flyers on guys with traits and

(32:16):
possibility and maybe some bat and background issues. Right that
that's the stuff that they got away from, and that's
what they built that whole team on.

Speaker 7 (32:26):
But then they got this locker room full of good
guys and they saw this is a type of locker
room that can really take one of those types of
players and put their arm around them.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
And man, you love your coaches and may with this
wide receiver room. If you can't go into a wide
receiver room with Jamar Chase working harder than everybody, Key
Higgins working just as hard as anybody. Tory Walsh is
one of the best wide receivers coaches in the game.
A guy like Yoshiavasho's getting the most out of his talent.
Like this stuff is a bunch of like if you
can't drop somebody into that room and they realize what
it's like to be a premature and move into this

(32:58):
first round ability, then man, and it's enticing to do that.
It's so enticing to do that and say it will happen.
It doesn't work like that, It just doesn't. And they
knew that when they started building this thing. And I
think you lose your way when you get greedy, when
you think you have so much good around. I think
that's a part of the lesson here. It's a part
of the lesson with Jackson Carmen. It's part of the

(33:20):
lesson with a lot of these busts. They know the
reasons these players bust. It's because you take these risks.
Sometimes it's worth a gamble because it's later in the
draft and you can Maybe that's the unfairness, fairness of
the ding on them there as it is, you're in
the eighties. But they needed a receiver, they needed answers
at receiver. They had all kinds of uncertainty coming up.

(33:40):
Guy like Jayalen McMillan's just sitting there. He's the obvious pick.
He would be. You know, he's solid as compedient. You
like him, you can take him. But no, you want
to roll the dice and take the risk because you
see this insane potential and you pay for it and
you eat it. Now, so that's not unfair to diging
them for that. They got away from kind of the
way they like to build things. And I think they

(34:00):
have to realize now that you just gotta stop taking
these chances, or you better be really, really sure that
you have a different version of the background on this
player than everybody else has.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
I'm looking here at the bottom of the screen, here
at twin Peaks on FS one and the reporting that
Antonio Pierce has been fired by the Raiders. So you know,
Marvin Lewis now is a free agent, and that was
a defensive coordinator.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
I I see, I see no problems with this. I mean,
let's do it. Let's let's let's bring them in, let's
talk about it. I actually think you're wrong. I don't
think that's the fit. I think game management coach, no, no, no, no,
in your job. Yeah, I would really, just for your sake,

(34:54):
I would love if if Marvin got that job over you.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
There. There are very few things that would make me
sort of push my chips to the middle of the table.
That might be one of them. All right, So, as
I'm laying there late on Sunday afternoon, the Chiefs are playing.
They had like eight guys on the field on offense
and defense against the Denver Broncos in a blatant lay

(35:19):
down like I was wrong. I thought the players who
played would play hard. I mean, that was August football,
and fine, they're right to do. How IM not blaming them,
you know, like Andy Reid's job is to do what
is best for his team. He thought that was best
for his team. But from about four thirty five in
the afternoon on, my attention went from what the Broncos

(35:41):
were doing to people pretending to be Kansas City Chiefs.
And I started to think back to all the games
that could have like swung the season, and some many
of those games could have swung and did swing on
one play. And you asked the question, which of the
seven to one score defeats are you most replaying in
your head right now? And the question from the the

(36:01):
answer for me was all of them. And so I've
compiled from seven to one. Uh In, I guess it
would be ascending order. Which ones I which ones I
relitigated least to most? Are you ready?

Speaker 3 (36:17):
Okay? So least to most? All right, let's go.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Number seven was Washington, which kind of the beginning of
the end for Lou you know, sort of foreshadowed how
miserable this defense was going to be. Uh, you know,
I I think I think of that night more just
in real time. Was in awe of how good jayde
Daniels was. But but also there was no pass rush.
He makes a great throw to essentially see all the game.

(36:42):
I thought of that game, but I didn't think much
of it. So that would be number seven.

Speaker 3 (36:46):
Yeah, I'm with you, I I have I have my
rankings in front of me as well. Washington also at
the bottom. Plus they were really banged up. It was early.
You're like, all right, Jadon Daniel was bare, and you
thought they're banged up. It's early time to recover from
that one.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
Right, Uh. Number six the Pittsburgh loss, because by then
I had kind of given up. I didn't go into
that game thinking like, boy, if they win this one.
This like what I was watching from the defense was
horrific and and that might have you know, who knows,
sealed lose fate. But by then I knew they couldn't

(37:19):
stop anybody decent. Not that the Steelers offensively ended up
being all that good, but like I spent more of
that time laughing at what the Bengals were doing defensively
than I was getting mad or thinking, God, this was
a game that they could have used to pivot their
season in the right direction. So I put that at
number six.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
That's fair. Yeah, no, I mean it's more. It's more
just so Wilson, right, Yeah, that's more. I had it
one spot higher strictly for the Russell Wilson shock value.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Okay, I know, and you talked about this lumping the
three games where they scored ninety nine points and didn't
win any of them. I thought a lot about the
Chargers game, and specifically the three possessions they had. They
obviously got the ball back with a chance for a
hail Mary down by seven points, but the three possessions

(38:12):
prior to that one where they kind of mismanage it
with Jamar Chase on the sideline and two miss field
goals could have capped off a remarkable comeback that you
thought in real time, Boy, if they do this now,
this thing can take off.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
Mm hmm. Yeah, that's that's what. And then and in
the beginning of the you know, really the I guess
the full throat of the Evan McPherson, what the hell
is going on here right and now. And that's that
was sort of and when you get into you know,
the the mass kids of breakings, I think it's the

(38:47):
the incredulous. It's it's the really that that that is
the thing that's going to be going wrong to seal
the face. I think that's why that that moves up
a little bit as well.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Number four Kansas City, fourth and sixteen to John Anthony
not rushing Patrick Mahomes, you know, nearly getting a win
when the Chiefs offensively were not at their best. Now,
we didn't know they were gonna go fifteen to two
and play unevenly for much of the season, but it
felt like they were this close to stealing one that

(39:19):
would have washed away much of the bad tape in
the previous week. And we were kind of framing that game,
it's like, well, you know, these two teams could be
neck and neck in the AFC, and boy, the tiebreaker
would go to Cincinnati, and man, the Chiefs would have
to come here. Obviously, it didn't come close to playing
out that way, but I do wonder what that game
being so early and everything that goes into playing the

(39:40):
Kansas City Chiefs. I just I wonder what the intangible
effect would have been from getting that game week two,
And I thought about that a lot.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
Yeah, that one was the one, I mean well New England,
but I mean that one was the one that had
the most ripple effect that you think it could have
changed the entire tone of this season, would have people
You win that and nobody even cares about New England anymore,
you know, like you you reset the bar. It was
just a bad first week. You went into Arrowhead and
took down the Chiefs like that changes the entire feel

(40:13):
and every step of the way where we were, you know,
we spent every week doing the bad mass it was,
it'd be a little less bad and there'd be a
little bit more optimism encouragement along the way. That's the one,
and then to me it's higher. I have all the
way up at two just because of the referee angst
factor from Bengalis fans versus the Chiefs. It's like it

(40:33):
that that dug up so many old wounds when it
was another referee situation in Kansas City, and the fact
that it's you know what, de Jon Anthony, what is
the seventh rounder doing out here in the spot too?
All of it the incredulous nature of all of that.
I had that all the way up at two. All right.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Number three. Ravens won the first Baltimore game two different
times in the fourth quarter they had a double a
two score lead. The Marlin Humphrey pick I replayed a
thousand times the sequence leading up to the bad Ryan
Rico hold. We talked about so much and I've thought
about so much over the last forty eight to seventy

(41:14):
two hours. Painful Ravens won is number three.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
Number one for me. That's I mean that because that
also has the same effect. That also has the same
effect of the Kansas City game. You know, where the
math is not so bad, the optimism is different. You
get that win. I mean, they're in the division race
right up until the very end because you're bringing Baltimore
back down a pay Who knows what that change is

(41:40):
going forward after that. And just the fact of like
they got the mistake, like they they got the break.
Look they get the fumble on the snap and there
they are right there and lining up money.

Speaker 6 (41:53):
Matt can't even get properly.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
The uh, you know, unbelievable nature of that. And then
plus the ripple effects I had that as I had
that as number one, all right.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
Number two for me was Baltimore to one play the
two point conversion, because when they lose to Baltimore, I go, okay,
win free out of the next four, which they did.
Eagles loss had its own set of issues, but they
still My thing was get to Baltimore and use that
as a pivot point when they're you're five hundred and
then we go. And they were a play away from

(42:29):
doing that. They were a play away from surviving everything
else that happened that night. When Joe Burrows stayed on
the field Ice I was at that game, I said
out loud, they're gonna get out of here with a win,
and now we take off and yep, there are there
are two missed penalties. One was egregious. He doesn't look
at Jamar. I mean, it just it felt like everything

(42:52):
frustrating about the season in a nutshell in one play
where they were just good enough to lose. I have
thought of about that almost every single day since November
the seventh, which I guess exactly to your two months ago.
I thought about that play in that game almost every
single day, and I certainly did on Sunday night.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
I mean the Chase Brown fumble could be looked at
as a turning point in the entire season. You know,
where they're up there, dominating, and all of a sudden,
the entire building changes, and then you get the half
effort on the wallace eighty four yard touchdown from from
everybody on the defensive side, and it's just, you know,
you have those types of leads late in games, and

(43:35):
you should you should win. It shouldn't even come down
to that. And then you have that play. They make
the play Jamar, I mean, Jamar goes for two What
the number is escaping me right now? For two hundred
and whatever? Joe is amazing. I mean, that was the
ultimate Tungsten Armodoyle game where you should never How is

(43:55):
it possible that these things happening in the Bengals lose
the game? Yeah, now there's it's hard to it's so
hard to make these decisions.

Speaker 5 (44:03):
Mo.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
There's so many bad moments and incredulous moments.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
And then number one for me is New England. And
there was a lot in that game. But what I
think about when I think of that game more than
anything is all right, here we go. NFL is giving
them a gift bad team, rookie head coach, backup quarterback.
They're huge favorites. The NFL is giving them an easy win.
They're gonna blow these guys out, and all they're gonna
do is is just throw gas onto the fire of

(44:30):
how people are excited, can't wait, and they come out
drive number one, free and out, Drive number two, free
and out, drive number three, free and out. Energy from
stadium gone. Suddenly this game that they were going to
win is in jeopardy. They end up losing lots of

(44:51):
nuts and bolts of the game itself. It remains unforgivable
four months later, losing to that team that would go
four and thirteen and fire its coach that was playing
Jacoby Brissett. Uh No, Joe Burrow wasn't wasn't comfortable. They
barely use Chase Brown. They miss a billion tackles. You
to me, that was number. They had plenty of time

(45:12):
to recover. I get it. All those other one score games,
those other losses were to playoff teams. The Patriots didn't
come close. It remains agonizing three four months later.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
Yeah, I mean I remember most from that game though,
thinking the is Joe Burrow broken right? Because he was?
It was he would drop back. He looked uncomfortable, he
wasn't doing anything he normally does, and he wasn't broken.
But it is remarkable how different he looked in that
game compared to pretty much the rest of the season.
I mean, it took that game for him to feel

(45:46):
to get more comfortable or force himself to be more
comfortable in game situation with that risk, which is part
of why I go back to some of the stuff
that we talked about with the slow starts, where that
was still a part of it when Burrow wasn't his
full self this year until he got through that first month.
I mean the numbers back that up and the way
he threw it, and obviously he played different. And that's

(46:06):
when will the season where truly fully healthy Joe Burrow
with no issue gets out there and is ready to
go From week one, maybe that's when you get the
fast start. But from this point forward, when we reference
slow starts and one and eleven in the first two
games under Zach Taylor of the season, it will always

(46:26):
start with I mean, you never know, you just assume
they're gonna lose. After what happened against New.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
England, all right, I am way late. I appreciate it.
You gave us the entire hour. That wasn't my intent,
but I thank you nonetheless.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
No, you're good, no problem, though, appreciate it. Have a
good one.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
YouTube the great Paul Danner Junior atthathletic dot com. My
apologies to a terran for totally butchering the clock where
twin peaks in Westchester on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 5 (46:57):
Traffic from the UC Health traffic so you see helps
weight Loss Center offers comprehensive obesity care and advanced surgical
expertise called five one three nine nine two two sixty three.
That's nine three nine two two sixty three. Northbound seventy one.
The exit ramp to Ridge Avenue has now been reopened

(47:17):
after earlier two vehicles off in the snow. There southbound
seventy five after Sharon Road, the left lane blocked off
from an accident. One vehicle there in the median on
that he's alk with traffic.

Speaker 4 (47:29):
This report is sponsored by thirty.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
That's us. What's up? It's six after four. We are
one minute la CESC fifteen thirty. Thank you so much
for listening. We are broadcasting from trem Geeks in Westchester,
the home of the Tonia Loo Football Show. One of
the two homes of the Tonia Mo Football Show this season. Obviously,
we were supposed to be here yesterday. That did not
happen because of the winter storm. But we we wanted

(47:57):
to uh wind up the season with a show at
Twin Peaks, and so got to come on out here
and do the show by myself today because Tony had
since he three to sixty and well, we did the
Tony and Mo Football Show from his studio in my
house yesterday. If you are getting off work here shortly.
First of all, the roads I drove from the west

(48:19):
side of Cincinnati to here, and it took me no
longer than it would on a day where it was,
you know, eighty one degrees in Sonny, although I badly
wish right now it was eighty one degrees in Sonny.
So the roads, at least on my commute, really really good.
And so we've got I got the chicken tenders in
honor of Tony, I got the chicken tenders. I recommend

(48:40):
the meatball skillet. We've got plenty of ice cold beer.
We've got an awesome Bourbon Selection. We are here till
five thirty. UK basketball is coming up at five point thirty,
with a tip off against Georgia at seven o'clock tonight
on ESPN fifteen thirty. It is a pretty busy college
basketball night. Kentucky has come off a big, high scoring

(49:03):
home win over Florida in the Wildcats SEC opener, an
extraordinarily entertaining game led by my guy Kobe Bryan making
seven threes. The Wildcats in the loaded SEC are among
the teams that can win that conference, which is saying
something because this season, at least so far, I think

(49:23):
that's been the best conference in college basketball. Cincinnati and
Xavier both played tonight in games that are massive, and
we're gonna spend some time on this coming up in
just a bit. I'm less interested in bracketology and the
net rankings, and I'm more interested in the basketball part
of this for the Bearcats. For Xavier, I think it's

(49:44):
quite simple. I think they have to win their next
three games, including a game tonight as underdogs at home
against Saint John's. More on that coming up here in
a bit. More on the Bengals later on. The Reds
made a trade last night Reds made a trade for
a guy who's an established Big leaguer. The Reds made
a trade for a guy who won a World Series
last year. The Reds made a trade for a guy

(50:05):
that people have heard of. And the Reds made what
I think is a good trade acquiring Gavin Lucks from
the Los Angeles Dodgers. I think this is a good trade.
Now we're looking at this in a vacuum. They didn't
give up an insignificant package to get Gavin Lucks, but

(50:26):
what they get is a guy who is essentially a
replacement for Jonathan India, who is just turned twenty seven
years old about six weeks ago, who you get for
two more years of team control. So it's a player
in his prime who you get for the next two seasons.
Who is you know, if you look at his numbers,

(50:48):
you're not going to be overwhelmed by them. But coming
off a year where he didn't play because of injury
in the second half of the season last year, he
had an ops of eight ninety nine. Now that's a
small sample side, but if you're thinking, well, we can
bottle what he did over the final two and a
half months and then you know, hope that that translates

(51:08):
into good production in twenty twenty five. I think that's
a pretty good bet. Gavin lux is a replacement for
Jonathan India, who it feels like has some offensive upside
and certainly has a little bit more positional versatility, which,
you know, let's face it, it feels like we're always
talking about moving players to a different position. That's obviously

(51:31):
been a big part of the Matt McLain conversation in
over the last year or so. We talked about it
with Jonathan India last offseason and really the offseason before
that as well.

Speaker 6 (51:41):
Well.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
With Gavin Lucks, you have a guy who's played primarily
second base, but also has manned three hundred and forty
innings in the outfield in the big leagues. He's also
played a little shortstop, so there's some positional versatility. He's
effectively replacing Jonathan India, which, all right, I get a
twenty seven year old guy who's last two and a
half months, specifically in July and August last year, was

(52:02):
really really good. Dude was good enough to get regular
playing time for a team that won the World Series.
So that in a vacuum, that's a good acquisition like that,
that's that's a good acquisition. Not some old, washed up guy.
Not some dude who's you know, fringe minor leaguer that
you're hoping can have a great spring and crack the roster.

(52:25):
Not some guy who's thirty three years old and his
best years were six years ago. Like twenty seven year
old guy who just played for the World champions last season,
was an everyday player, played in one hundred and thirty
eight games. Like that's that's a good acquisition with some
positional flexibility and some offensive upside. Good acquisition in a vacuum. Now,

(52:50):
along with that, outside the vacuum is what hovers above
this trade and everything the Reds have done so far
this season. The fear a legitimate fear until the Reds
prove it wrong that a move like this is going

(53:11):
to be basically it for the offseason. They've done some
other things, most notably acquiring Brady Singer to add to
the pitching rotation. But I think there's a legitimate fear,
and the fear may prove to be unfounded, may prove
to be unfair. It might be something we laugh at

(53:32):
in five or six weeks, but with a spring training
fast approaching. They haven't acquired from outside someone who fills
what I think, and I think what most agree is
their biggest need, which is an outfield bad Davin Lux

(53:54):
might play the outfield, but he's probably a middle infielder.
By the way, he's going to be on the Reds
Hot Stove Show tonight an at six o'clock on a
seven hundred WLW. You don't look at Gavin Lux and go, boy,
that's that's the guy who's going to solve their power
problem in the outfield. He's guy with twenty eight Big
league home runs and nearly fifteen hundred plate appearances. You

(54:18):
know that doesn't it doesn't solve It doesn't solve their problem.
And so you know, all off season long, I think
most of us have waited to see are they gonna
use trades or free agency to address that problem. Now,
I think most of us understand that the success of

(54:42):
the Reds in twenty twenty five is going to depend
mostly on players who were a part of the organization
last season, either players performing better, players getting healthy and performing,
or staying healthy and performing. Like if the Reds are
a playoff team this coming season, which should be not

(55:05):
sure it is, but should be the expectation. Chances are
the main reasons why are players who were drawing a
paycheck from the Cincinnati Reds in twenty twenty five. Whether
it's Matt McLain who didn't play at all last year,
or jam Or Candelario who played last season, or Christian
and Carnassi and Strand who barely played last season, and
obviously all those starting pitchers who have yet to get

(55:26):
through a full big league season. If the Reds are
a playoff team in twenty twenty five, the main reasons
why are going to be players who are part of
the team, part of the organization, at least in twenty
twenty four. At the same time, did anybody look at
the Reds at the end of twenty twenty three, which
were twenty twenty four, I'm sorry, which the season ended

(55:47):
one hundred days ago, one hundred days ago today. Did
anybody look at that team and try to piece everything
back together, that the players who finished the season on
the roster, the players who didn't finish the season because
they were hurt, the players who never played because they
were hurt. Did anybody piece together that roster and go,
you know what, pretty good this team can win ninety
games in twenty twenty five. No, everybody looked at it

(56:10):
and said, need help from outside. Help from outside. Might
have been experienced starting pitching. Could use another help from outside,
might have been a bullpen arm could use another help
from outside, could have been move Jonathan India and find
someone who's better. Maybe they did that, but they haven't

(56:30):
acquired the piece that most of us thought they needed,
which is an outfield bat, somebody that can hit the
ball out of the ballpark, provide some pop and give
them a little juice in the middle of the order
that may manifest itself in Will Benson or Jake Frayley,

(56:51):
or maybe jam Er Candelight or Noel Van I mentioned
some infielders there. They haven't addressed their biggest need. And
so I look at the Gavin Lux thing and a
vacuum a go awesome. But I also think it's fair
until they prove otherwise to wonder, like God, is that

(57:11):
going to be it? I mean, we've heard Nick Krawl
last night even he's asked about budget and what's left over,
and he says, well, we've got some, but not a ton.
And we've spent all off season reading about players they've
been close to acquiring, or guys they've been in on,
or players they've kicked the tires on, and there's still
some time, but one hundred days since last season ended.

(57:35):
This is I think pretty factual, or it's at least
a very strong opinion. They have not used what you
use during the offseason, which are trades and free agency acquisitions,
to get what I think we all agreed was their
biggest need. An outfield bat, a guy that can hit
twenty five, thirty, maybe thirty five home runs, a guy
that can give them a real boost to the middle

(57:56):
of the order. And until they get that, you're then
taking a humongous leap of faith on guys who are
mostly unproven or coming off years where they had significant injuries.
And that doesn't necessarily add up to a feeling of
confidence that this team is gonna win ninety to ninety
five games, which is the goal. It should be the

(58:18):
goal this year, win ninety to ninety five games. If
you look at the team as currently constructed, how many
players do you look at and go, and I'm not
talking even about the pigeon right now, how many guys
do you look at and go? You know what that
guy could be an All Star Elie de la Cruz
for sure. I think Tyler steven Sin who had a

(58:39):
nice year last year. Who else All Star? Which in
a granted there's always an All Star too who might
have underwhelming numbers and they make it because they got
voted in because their team had nobody else. But for
the most part, we're talking about like top two or
three guys at their position. How many guys like I
know there's a good chance you're yelling at your listening
device right now, go on, Matt McClain and maybe, but

(59:01):
are we sure dude cannot stay healthy? Didn't play at
all last year? I mean the guy's middle name should
be set Back, right, because every time I see Matt McClain,
I see Setback Christian and Carnacio Strand maybe based on
what though Jamier Candelario like, there's still and this is
gonna feel like a pessimistic exercise. I did this during

(59:23):
the season last year. How many guys that they have
would you say are top five at their position in
the National League? Couldn't find many. I'm not sure we
can find many now. So the Gavin Lucks thing, I
do believe there are two different ways of looking at it.
Individually in a vacuum, awesome, like fine, whatever gave up
a prospect and a draft choice, and that's not insignificant,

(59:45):
but cool, like that guy could help. That guy could
play multiple positions, that guy could be an asset, that
guy has some upside, that guy's not old and washed up.
That guy you get for two years, so there's team control.
But until they prove of wise. This franchise, which over
the last couple of years when it comes to acquiring
help from outside, has either been defined as being passive

(01:00:08):
or not willing to go to go the extra base,
so to speak, no pun intended, has earned skepticism, has
earned skepticism that they're going to use what they need
to use in the off season to make the team better.
They haven't done it yet, and until they do, you
can't help but look at a move like Gavin Lux
and wonder, like, God, is that going to be it?

(01:00:29):
I hope the answer is no. I guess the next
four or five weeks will tell us if that's the
case or not. Nineteen after four, we'll have a red
S Poll question coming up here. In just a bit,
I want you to want you to put yourself in
Joe Burrows shoes, which for the most part there's are
pretty good shoes to be in. I'm not sure i'd

(01:00:49):
want to be in them. This weekend, we'll do that
coming up in the five o'clock hour. Get to some
college basketball as well. We're at Twin Peaks in Westchester
nineteen after four o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
From excuse me, we're broadcasting from Twin Peaks in Westchester
on the SPS fifteen thirty on moleggor glad you're with

(01:01:11):
us today. We're done at five thirty. But you know,
if if you can't get here till after five thirty, guests,
what Twin Peaks doesn't close when our show is over.
You can hang out here. You could watch all the
college basketball tonight. You see Xavier Kentucky. By the way,
I said last hour, the dayton play tonight. I was
wrong about that. They play on the road tomorrow night

(01:01:32):
against UMass. So the gentleman who sent me the real
nasty email, congratulations on being perfect. You can watch any
of those games here tonight or tomorrow at Twin Peaks
in Westchester. We have not had an opportunity to open
up the phone lines because we've had we've been busy.
Tony and Mo Football Show. Paul Danner Junior, So five win, three, seven,

(01:01:55):
four nine, fifteen thirty can get you in. Let's start
with Dustin. Dustin, you're on ESPN fifteen thirty. Good afternoon,
How are.

Speaker 6 (01:02:02):
You gird, Mo?

Speaker 8 (01:02:05):
It's been a while.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
How you been.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
Good? Good?

Speaker 8 (01:02:09):
You know, like you were snowed in. Uh finally kind
of ventured out today. Uh just learned that the kids,
uh school is canceled again tomorrow. So you know that's
a that's a real spiritual moment in our household.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
So but I have great kids.

Speaker 8 (01:02:27):
But you know, hey, after fifteen days off, I think
it's it's we're kind of ready. So but you know
what I wanted to what I wanted to talk about Wash.
You know, I think about you and I are pretty
close in age. But I think about those those guys
back in nineteen eighty nine when the Bengals lost the
Super Bowl and they thought, man, we're right there. You know,

(01:02:50):
I just if we could just do this or we
could do that, and you know, we add this piece,
we get a new coordinator or a new air line coach,
whatever it may be, and you know, we're right back
in this thing. And then thirty one years happened, and
so those guys in their forties were in their seventies.
Hopefully they were still around to see that next Super Bowl.

(01:03:10):
And I think, you know, as a pessimistic kind of
fans some times, as Bengals fans, you can't help them
sort of think about that and think back to, you know,
just how close it was and how close it could
possibly not come again.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
So yeah, it's you know, Tony and I talked about
this a little bit yesterday. I've thought about this often
during the season. You know, when the Bengals made the
Super Bowl three years ago, it was awesome, and in
the immediate aftermath, it was impossible to not get caught
up in thinking, God, that was unexpected, and how much
gratitude we had that we got a chances fans to

(01:03:51):
enjoy a season like that, and how cool and you know,
to a degree unexpected it was, and to think about
the future that lay out head. But there was also
a part of you, I think there wasn't least for
me where you go God, you know what you don't
know when they're gonna get back. You don't know when
they're gonna get You don't know when they're going to
be that close to winning. And then you know, when

(01:04:13):
they were so close to getting back to the super
Bowl the next year. I remember, you know, the game
against Case that they lost. Burrow gets the ball back
with excuse me, I think two and a half minutes
to go, and I said out loud like, well, you
know what, who knows when you're back in this position?
And they they didn't get it done. They lose the game,
and they obviously still have Joe and they still have

(01:04:34):
some terrific players, and they still have a quarterback in
his prime who's not going anywhere. But yeah, man, you know,
when when you come that close, you can't help. But
wonder could that be as close as they ever get?
You know, we used the example yesterday, and I know
there's gonna be people too young to remember this. And
Madan Marino got to a super Bowl in his second season,

(01:04:56):
lost and everybody thought that's the first of many for
that guy, and he never got back.

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
You know, Aaron Rodgers won a Super Bowl I think
in his third year as a starting QB, and he thought, man,
sky's a limit for that guy, and statistically it has been,
but he hasn't gotten back. You just don't know. And
so yeah, the next time there, Yeah, you guys thought,
you know, you got to you got to seal the deal.

Speaker 8 (01:05:22):
You guys hit on some great points yesterday. And you
know that walking out of that that LA Stadium, you know,
I think that was one of the obviously disappointment at
the Super Bowl. But walking out of there, You're just like, gosh,
ninety seconds. You know, how how much it's going to
take to get back to this just this moment, this

(01:05:43):
this this moment of ninety seconds that could go fifty
to fifty and how much that's gonna take and will
ever happened again? You know, you brought up yesterday about thinking,
you know who in the playoffs would would replace their
coach with Zach Taylor. And I know Zach has done
some good things. He's he really has, but this is
just there's a couple of numbers for US so ten

(01:06:04):
and twenty one in the record in the Division, seven
and fourteen and one in September fifteen eighteen, one in
October sixteen twenty nine and one in one score games.
I just don't know how many teams are gonna give
a guys seventh year of that, But I don't know.
I know something that's without Joe, But it just seemed

(01:06:26):
like a time to potentially turn the page. And I
know a lot of fans are kind of afraid of that,
but sometimes you just can't be afraid to change. And
I guess we'll see what happens after this next iteration
of some coaches coordinators.

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
So yeah, I look at it. I look at it.
I guess from two different perspectives. One is, if the
Bengals let Zach Taylor go today, what I feel like, OMG,
they just let a great coach get away, right, Like
you know, Philadelphia Eagles have turned out fine, but I
I can't imagine what it must have been like in Philadelphia.

(01:07:02):
Andy Reid was there for years and he goes to
Kansas City and immediately got the franchise turned around. And
that was well before they added Patrick Mahomes. And you
just wanted, like, do we do we let an? Do
we let a great coach get away that? Now you
know some other team is going to make us regret
doing that with Zach. I don't I don't gather that
the answer is yes, I don't think anybody would feel
like man, the Bengals let him get away. I guess

(01:07:26):
the other one though, for me is I've I've kind
of talked myself into this. Zach. You know, I gave
him a past year one. I gave him a past
year or two. In fact, I thought the best thing
he did in year two was he helped get Joe
Burrow ready to play Week one without a real offseason
and with a weird training camp and no preseason. So
the first two years total pass the next two years

(01:07:49):
smashing successes. You know, within those years some individual things
that you maybe wish the coach would have done better,
would have done differently, but smashing success. And he used
those two years is to build up equity with me.
I'm allowing him to cash in that equity. So, okay,
you're spending it to buy yourself a seventh season, to

(01:08:09):
buy yourself out of this organizational failure, which that's what
twenty twenty four is. And you've bought yourself an opportunity
to prove that you can get this turned around and
to prove that twenty twenty four is not anything that
we're ever going to see again where you waste your
quarterbacks individual greatness. I look at twenty twenty five as

(01:08:30):
all right, you built up the equity the two years
where your team made the AFC Championship game in the
Super Bowl. Now you're spending it. You're buying yourself next year.
But if we're doing the same thing a year from now,
we can't keep doing this. This is the year where the
results have to be closer to what they were in
twenty one and twenty two. And so I'm okay bringing

(01:08:50):
him back because I do believe you know, people in life,
they build up equity. You let him spend it with
Zach with me. I'm letting him spend it this year.

Speaker 8 (01:09:01):
Right, Yeah, no, and I can I and I totally
understand that. I think, uh, I go back and forth
on it for sure, you know, you know if obviously
we all hope it works out, if if unfortunately it doesn't.
You know, Zach does strike me as kind of that
guy that would go back, maybe coordinate for four or
five six years, get that second opportunity, and then maybe

(01:09:23):
really go uh just because you know, a good personality
is like a players coach and everything. You know, obviously
we hope that this new coordinator, because it is.

Speaker 3 (01:09:32):
It's true.

Speaker 8 (01:09:33):
It's if the defense would have just you know, when
you score thirty two points a game, those those those
those teams are ninety five percent of the time they win,
and if you just get one of those, you know,
it's different and we're having it, we're you know, we're
probably having a different conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
You know.

Speaker 8 (01:09:48):
Obviously the defense you'd still have to address that in
the off season, but we'd be looking forward to playing
Buffalo and it would be you know, the narrative would
be god Zach, you know, he turned them around by
being winning streak and so but you know, not sports.
So you know, that's that's what makes the thing that
gives us all these things to talk about.

Speaker 2 (01:10:06):
So no question. Hey, good to hear from you, as
always call again.

Speaker 8 (01:10:10):
Okay, I appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
Mo you got it. One of the very best basketball
events in the area. It's happening this weekend. We'll preview
it next on ESPN fifteen.

Speaker 4 (01:10:22):
Thirty, Cincinnati's e ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati's sports stations.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
Twenty away from five o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty
on Moegar, I am a little bit late for this
because I don't know how to read a clock. One
of the best high school basketball events in the country
is happening this weekend and right in our backyard. Thomas
Moore University the Connor Convocation Center will be host to

(01:10:50):
the Griffin Elite Basketball Classic. Some great area teams and
some of the country's top D one recruits will be
in northern Kentucky for a three day event which starts
on Friday night. Helping to put this all together is
the former associate head coach at the University of Cincinnati,
joined us about a year ago at this time, Larry Davis, coach.

(01:11:11):
It's good to have you.

Speaker 6 (01:11:11):
What's going on, Thanks mon, It's good to talk to
you man. Good to see you and back again for another.

Speaker 2 (01:11:17):
Year this event. And I am familiar with some of
the players who are going to be on the floor
this weekend, starting on Friday. Roll through everything that's going
to be happening across three days of Thomas Moore.

Speaker 6 (01:11:30):
Okay, I'm going to give you the game schedule first,
and then we'll go back and talk about each team
and some of the players on those teams. Okay, So
on Friday night, we open up with Spire Academy, which
is where lamellow Ball went out of Ohio versus Kentucky Wesley,
which is down in Louisville, ben That is our seven

(01:11:53):
o'clock game, Huntington Prep versus Simon Kenton and Huntington Prep
is over out of West virgin and they have the
number one player in the two thousand twenty eight class
who is also an Ohio kid. I'll talk more about
him just in a second. Then on Saturday, we have
Great Crossing out of Georgetown, Kentucky who has features the

(01:12:17):
seven foot kid who signed at University of Kentucky versus
Cathedral High School out of Indiana who currently is number
one in the state in Indiana and Triple A. And
then we had Saint Xavier out of Cincinnati versus Spire
Academy again, they're going to play two games. On Sunday,
We've got Lloyd High School from over here in Kentucky

(01:12:38):
versus Summit Country Day, who currently is ranked I think
number five in three A R excuse me, number three
and five A and high school basketball in Ohio and
number ten overall in the state and all classes. And
then we have Newport High versus Walton Verona and then
the final game at six o'clock will be Huntington Prep

(01:13:00):
versus Moravian Prep. And Moravian Prep it comes to us
out of the Overtime of League Overtime Elite League, which
is one of the premier basketball high school basketball leagues
in the country. They have about six or seven guys
who will be first round draft picks, and Moravian Prep
currently leagues that league, and we have the leading scorer

(01:13:22):
out of that league and a young man by the
name of Eli Ellis. So that's the lineup and we
currently have they'll be at least as of right now,
about forty five guys that will play that have Division
one offers, and we have about fifteen high major offer

(01:13:43):
kids that will be playing. So it is high level basketball.
You'll see some of the best players in the country
play and some really really good high school teams play.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
It's going to be three days Friday, Saturday and Sunday
at Thomas Moore. How do you put together an event
like this get so much of this talent concentrated into
one gym.

Speaker 6 (01:14:05):
Well, two things happen. First of all, the Griffin family,
who puts it on is has a tremendous organization and
they you know, you have to put some money out
in order to do this, and they have done a
great job in raising money and helping sponsor this, and

(01:14:26):
I do want to mention this mode before I go on.
We are giving this year, and we've done it every year,
but this year we're giving a portion of the proceeds.
We'll go to a young man by the name of
Levi's Stamper. Levi is five years old. He was prematurely
born and he has had to this point, he's had

(01:14:47):
fifty different operations to try to help him correct all
the different things that have happened to him. And his
family and the young man have literally been through hell.
And we are going to on Sunday. He has an
aunt that's going to sing the national anthem for us,
and after that game, we're going to surprise the family
with a check to help for depray a lot of

(01:15:10):
his costs for his operations that he's been through. And
I will tell you this, it might be one of
the best national anthems I've ever heard some in my life,
and I've heard a lot of it. No, as you know,
his aunt is about five foot tall, maybe ninety eight pounds,
but you would think her voice is coming from a

(01:15:31):
three hundred pound woman. I mean, she can sing it, boy,
So that'll be a treat in itself. But it's going
for a great cause, and you know, we're happy to
help that. And when you know, I've been forcing the
mode and to be in basketball as long as I have,
So I've got a lot of contacts across the country,
which allows me to call up some high school coaches

(01:15:54):
and places that I recruited and say, hey, we'd love
to have you. And because we have some previous relationship,
they've been willing to come. And so it's been it's
been good. It's been really good.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
It's a three day event. Where do folks go to
get tickets?

Speaker 6 (01:16:11):
Okay, there's a you go online and you get your
ticket digitally, and I don't have it written down in
from me, and that is my bad. Go to Griffin Elite.
Just go to Griffin Elite Tournament and it'll come up
and you can purchase your ticket online and that way

(01:16:32):
you don't have There are none sold at the door,
so you do have to purchase it online. Go to
griff and Elite Basketball Tournament and it'll pop up. The
link will pop up.

Speaker 3 (01:16:44):
Real quickly.

Speaker 6 (01:16:45):
All go through these. I'll just go down some of
the kids that are coming huntingson Prep. As I mentioned
as a young man by the name of cam Mercer.
He's a Cincinnati kid. Currently he is number one in
the nation in the twenty twenty eight class. They all
have seven other guys that we recruited anywhere from high
major to mid major. Now I've got it Everbright. Go

(01:17:11):
google ever Bright and the tournament will come up there
in order to purchase pickets. I knew I had it
right here and I couldn't find it. Moravian Prep features
the Ellis Brothers and if you want to treat for yourself,
google the Ellis Brothers and look at some of their podcasts.
They are two young men that are terrific players and

(01:17:32):
terrific personalities. They are both committed to the University of
South Carolina. Eli Ellis was the MVP of the Overtime
League last year. He set the game record from most
points ever scored in the game at ote at fifty
five and he is a six foot white guard. He

(01:17:56):
is a phenomenal player and an atypical what you consider
to be you know the number one player in in
the OTE and he was m VP there last year.
Over about six guys that get they ended up getting
drafted in the NBA. So they also feature they have

(01:18:17):
seven other six other guys that have signed Division one.
Every single player on their team has signed a scholarship
to play either Division one or Division two.

Speaker 3 (01:18:26):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:18:26):
They also have a local kid by the name of
Caden Miller who is Jeff Ruby's grandson. By the way,
six nine kid. Uh, he is playing for them as well. Uh.
And he has signed at High Point University along with
one of his other teammates and uh so he's a
little homecoming for him. Spire Academy, as I said, is

(01:18:49):
the home of LaMelo Ball. That's where he played.

Speaker 3 (01:18:52):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:18:52):
They have a young man my named of Kyle Wats
who's committed to Ohio University here and for the Red
play for the Red Hawk sixty seven kid. They got
another six ' ten kid name of Seaton Ross who
has multiple excuse me. Division one offers great crossing has

(01:19:13):
a seven foot kid by the name of Malachi Moreau
Moroe who has committed to the University of Kentucky. He's
the number one center in the state of Kentucky, and
he's a top twenty five player nationally. Cathedral, as I
said before, is number one and three a team in
the rank right now in the state of Indiana, and
they feature six eight senior Rady Teacher, who's committed and

(01:19:40):
signed with Notre Dame Lloyd House High School over here
in Kentucky, a local team. They have EJ. Watts and EJ.
Excuse me, e J. Walker, not EJ Wats. E J.

Speaker 3 (01:19:51):
Walker. He is also.

Speaker 6 (01:19:52):
Committed to the University of South Carolina, six eight power forward,
small forward, top hundred kid in the country, and he's
a lot of fun to watch. UH Saint X out
of Cincinnati has Jacob Wassler, who's already committed development six
ten kid, and they've got a couple of other kids
that will I think by seasons then and or who

(01:20:14):
are juniors by over the next couple of years, will
also be UH recruiting. Division one. We've got Summit Country Day,
who I mentioned before, who is number three currently in
Division five basketball, number ten overall in the state, and
all their kids are underclassmen, all are being recruited as well,

(01:20:35):
or they're starting five I think three of their starting
five will be recruited currently by Division one and they've
got they've got a couple of real young ones who
will be who play a lot. Walton Verona and Simon
Kenton are also top area teams they'll be playing. And
then last and at least is Newport High and Newport

(01:20:56):
High UH has fake of Turner, our James Turner, six
to seven kid who's got high to mid level Division
one offers, Griffin Starks. And then most of you will
remember his father who played at University of Cincinnati. He
is there, he's a sophomore. He's one of the top

(01:21:17):
sophomores in the country in the twenty twenty seven class.
And then they have a point guard also, Almani Love.

Speaker 3 (01:21:24):
Below, who is.

Speaker 6 (01:21:26):
Has multiple Division one offers. So again it's gonna be
high level basketball with a lot of good players and
should be great competition. Uh, if you if you like
watching high school basketball, and particularly you know for the
Cincinnati people, who we've got Cincinnati teams coming, and you
know you've got one of the best players in the

(01:21:47):
country out of Cincinnati. We'll be back here and cam
Mercer playing. So I would I know for a fact
that University of Cincinnati the bear Cats will definitely recruit him.
So if you want to see maybe a kid will
be future Bearcat early on, it would be great to come,
you know, come watch them.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
You can get tickets. Look for the Griffin Elite Basketball Classic.
It's at Thomas Moore. There's an event bright page, or
you can just simply google or seerge Griffin Elite Basketball
Classic Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Some of the best players
in the country. An awesome event. Coach, good to have
you always, man, thanks so much.

Speaker 6 (01:22:25):
Hey, thank you, thanks for having us on. And you know,
if you're not doing anything more, come I know you've
got a business schedule, but come on and receive a
few games.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
That's my plan. There you go, They'll see you there.
Thomas more this weekend Connor Convocation Center Friday, Saturday and
Sunday eight away from five o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station. You know when I miss this one.
The United at Heartland Insurance. If you need to get
something insured, go to United Heartland Insurance. They've got offices

(01:22:54):
in Burlington, Hamilton, and Cincinnati. Go to uhi ns dot com.
Two POLP quests, one the Reds offseason so far has been.
I gave you three choices terrific, mildly productive, marginally disappointing,
or a disaster. Vote now at Moeger. Question number two.
If you have watched the college football playoff, you have
seen the commercials for Great Clips haircut. I have not

(01:23:18):
sat in a barber's chair in literally now eleven years,
so I don't go to I just do it myself.
But it's what bal we get to save money on haircuts.
But I've been to a Great Clips before. The commercials
now feature Jesse Palmer, and Jesse Palmer's a good television personality,
a good commentator on college football games. I guess he

(01:23:40):
was the Bachelor many moons ago. He's also a game
show host. I am skeptical of Jesse Palmer ever going
into a Great Clips and getting his haircut, so we
put it to you. Do you believe that he has
ever walked into a Great Clips and allowed a scissors
blade to touch his hair? Vote now at Moegar on X,

(01:24:00):
I quickly want to say this. I just saw this
on social media. Congratulations to Joe Daniman of Fox nineteen,
the dean of Cincinnati television sports anchors He has been
named the Ohio Sportscaster of the Year by the National
Sports Media Association. I grew up watching Joe Daniman and
he and Jeremy some job at Fox nineteen. But Joe

(01:24:24):
has been really good for a really long time, a
magnificent storyteller and someone who, whether whether you're watching him
narrate high school football highlights or talking about the Bengals, whatever,
does it with such great enthusiasm and professionalism and is

(01:24:44):
just also an awesome dude as well. So congratulations to
Joe Daniman at Fox nineteen. That is a well deserved honor.
We're here at Twin Peaks in west Chester, a couple
minutes away from five o'clock. I want you to pretend
you're Joe Burrow and we'll talk about tonight's college basketball
games as well on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 4 (01:25:07):
Traffic from the uc Health Traffic Center.

Speaker 5 (01:25:10):
U See Health's Weight Loss Center offers comprehensive obesity care
and advanced surgical expertise called five one three, nine three
nine two two sixty three. That's nine three, nine two
two sixty three. Westbound two seventy five and it's an
accident on the exit ramp to southbound seventy one in Ohio.
That's got that closed off. And northbound seventy five at

(01:25:31):
Butler Regional Highway, the left lane block from an accident.
Slow traffic back from Tylersville Road. I'm at eazeleek with
traffic this report.

Speaker 3 (01:25:40):
Guess what day it is?

Speaker 2 (01:25:43):
Du Day? Well, chicken tesday. It's twenty pigs to today
because I just had chicken tenders yours when pigs could
have New Ball ESPN fifteen thirty six minutes after five o'clock.
We're broadcasting today from a twinter Geeks in Westchester, typically

(01:26:04):
the home of the Tony and Mo Football Show. We
were supposed to be here yesterday. Because of the winter storm,
we didn't come to Twin Peaks, so Tony we did
the Tony and Mo Football Show. Tony was in studio.
I stayed at home, but I did not want I
didn't want to let the last week come and go
without getting my Twin Peaks fixed. So we are here

(01:26:27):
a short show. We're done at the bottom of the hour.
Kentucky Basketball takes over at five thirty UK and Georgia tonight.
This is a good place to watch that game, the
u SE game tonight, the Xavier game tonight, whatever you
want to watch. Maybe it was a good sitcom on tonight.
You can watch that too, I'm sure if you ask
here at the Twin Peaks in Westchester, we have a
lot of ground to cover. I do want to spend
a few minutes on you see and Xavier specifically. Both

(01:26:49):
teams played tonight. Both teams play games. You know, you
hate to say that a game on January seventh is
must win, but there's there's there's something about these two
games that are very, very important for both teams tonight.
We'll get to that coming up here in just a bit.
As as things relate to the Bengals, the news of

(01:27:10):
the day is they have begun the process of interviewing
defensive coordinator candidates. The defensive coordinator of the Raiders, Patrick Graham,
interviewed today. This originally reported by NFL Media's Tom Pellisero.
DeMarcus Covington, the defensive coordinator of the New England Patriots,
is said to interview tomorrow. I brought this up to

(01:27:31):
Paul Dayner Junior before. This is one of those topics
that I think has kind of taken a back seat
to a lot of the other stuff that's gonna have
to happen this offseason, right the t Higgins thing, who
they draft, who they acquire, who they say goodbye to,
what they do in free agency, how they fix the
offensive line, how they fix the defense, Who the new

(01:27:52):
DC is going to be, who the new offensive line
coach is gonna be. Like, there's a lot of stuff
to fix. One of the many offseason story we spent
time on last year involved Trey Hendrickson's trade request, which
kind of came and went, and you know, Trey still
showed up and went to training camp and all that stuff,

(01:28:14):
and you know, I think publicly at least handled the
questions he got about the request. And I saw Trey side.
I saw Trey side, which was well, hell man. In
twenty twenty three, I was awesome, Let's see if I
can get a pay raise, Let's see if I can
get more years on my deal, Like totally makes sense
at a great year. Let's see if I could parlay

(01:28:36):
that into a better situation for me. I also don't
think the Bengals were wrong for going, Yeah, we're good like,
dude was gonna turn thirty this season. He did have
a very good year last year, but he also had
two years remaining on his contract, So like, what's the rush?
Like neither side. Neither side was wrong. This wasn't the

(01:28:57):
Bengals being cheap. Tray the year before had signed a
contract extension for one season. I don't blame him for
looking for a better situation for himself, and I don't
blame the Bengals for going, yeah, we're good, like we've
got you for two more years. There's no rush. We
have no real reason to give you a pay raise,

(01:29:18):
we have no reason to give you a contract extension.
Let's just see how things play out. Well, how did
things play out? Trey had seventeen and a half sacks.
He might be the Defensive Player of the Year. I
don't think he's gonna win the award. He'd be the
winner for me, because, frankly, the dude had no help.
He was the Bengals pass rush this season. He was

(01:29:39):
the pass rush this season. He is a guy that
you have to consider if you have a Defensive Player
of the Year award vote, and maybe you'll vote for him.
But he had an even better season this year than
he did last year, had an even better season this
year than he did last year. So, if you're a tray,

(01:30:04):
if you asked for a trade last year because you
couldn't get a contract extension last year, because you were
coming off a really good season last year, what are
you gonna do this offseason? Now? You might not ask
for a trade, You're most definitely gonna ask for more years.

(01:30:28):
You're most definitely gonna ask for more money. How did
the Bengals handle that? On one hand, you might say, dude,
he's Trey Hendrickson, He's like the one good defensive player
you have. On the other hand, by the end of
next season, he'll be thirty one years old. That's gonna
be worth paying attention to. By the way, I don't
blame Trey at all if he tries to parlay another
excellent season, a season where he could win the Defensive

(01:30:51):
Player of the Award, and try to parlay that into
a longer deal, more money, whatever. The Bengals do have
a bit of a long standing policy of not wanting
to sign guy two third contracts. They've already given him
one more year. What are they gonna do with Trey Hendrickson.
What's Trey Hendrickson gonna do? That is a storyline this year.

(01:31:12):
If you're Joe Burrow, just put yourself in Joe's shoes
for just a couple of minutes. Those are usually really
good shoes to be in. Right, He's Joe Burrow, he
makes a lot of damn money. Got life where you
want it. Wouldn't want to be Joe this weekend? Any

(01:31:32):
other time I'd want to be Joe Burrow. Would you
want to be Joe Burrow this weekend? Let's see. You know,
you're measured by championships won, and you're measured against the
guys at the absolute top of the food chain among quarterbacks.
You're not measured against Desmond Ritter, Right, You're not measured

(01:31:53):
against Kirk Cousins. You're measured against well, the quarterbacks are
going to be playing this weekend. Just put yourself in
Joe's shoes for a second. Here, you're watching these playoff games,
and you also know the teams that are playing next

(01:32:13):
weekend that don't have to play this weekend. How do
you feel watching all of these other quarterbacks who you
believe you're better than play in the postseason play on
this stage play this weekend with a chance some obviously
better than others of winning a championship, Like, I can't

(01:32:37):
get over this thing here, and this is why, this
is why Zach Taylor should be on the hot seat,
and it's why you're you're not being unreasonable if you
think it's time the Bengals move on from their head coach.
So why you're not being unreasonable. If you look at
the Bengals and go organizationally, they've got to do more
than just fire the defensive coordinator, like this represents a

(01:32:58):
massive organizational fail. You are not supposed to miss the
postseason when you have an A lister and there's there's
only a handful of A listers in the NFL. Mike
Sando Theathletic dot Com. We have them on every summer,
does the NFL QB tiers. He had three Q one
or three Tier one quarterbacks. They had Mahomes, he had
Josh Allen, he had Joe Burrow. I don't think he's

(01:33:20):
gonna knock Patrick Mahomes just because he didn't have a
Patrick Mahomes type years team won fifteen to two. Those
are the guys now. I think Lamar Jackson belongs there,
Lamar would get my MVP vote. But like there's the
the absolute upper crust. When you have one of those
upper crust quarterbacks, you might not win a title every year.
You're not gonna You're not supposed to miss the postseason.

(01:33:43):
Like the conversation that Joe is in now is he
would be in a conversation with guys like Brady and
Manning twenty years ago. Like the the absolute upper crust,
top tier guys. When you have a top tier guy,
you're not supposed to be on the up on the
outside looking in, especially when you have a tier guy
who played like a top tier guy like Dak Prescott.

(01:34:05):
For example, Mike Sando had him as a tier two
guy this past offseason. First of all, Dak Prescott didn't
play the entire season. Secondly, when he did play, it
wasn't that good. Joe Burrow was that good. You can
make the argument, I would he's the best quarterback in
the NFL right now, even if you don't think he is. Again,
you can't have the conversation about who is without discussing

(01:34:26):
Joe Burrow. It must be maddening to be him this
weekend and you're watching these other dudes, some of whom
are your peers, most of whom you're clearly better than,
all of whom you think you're better than. They're playing,
you're not. Some of them are playing, and as they're playing,

(01:34:49):
they're gonna be talked about as possible MVPs. Josh Allen
will take the field this weekend, and when he does,
part of the conversation surrounded the game will be a
about his MVP case. Obviously that Hey is in the
bar and it's a regular season award. Lamar Jackson the
same thing. So, like, you know, we've talked about Joe's

(01:35:09):
sway and what he's had to say about t Higgins,
Like we also talk about what you don't want to
be doing a year from now. Do not put your player,
Do not put your franchise, your franchise face in a
position where, on a regular basis, he's watching all these
other dudes play while he's sitting at home, Like, what

(01:35:30):
will you be thinking right now if you're Joe Burrow,
I just went out there through for nearly five thousand yards.
I had an MVP caliber season. I don't get to
play this weekend. Bo Nicks does, Russell Wilson does, or
maybe justin fields and Lamar gets to play, and Josh
Allen gets to play, and Patrick Mahomes gets to sit
and rest this week and then play next week, and

(01:35:50):
you know some of these. Herbert gets to play a
guy that I was drafted ahead of, and Jalen Hurts
gets to play a guy that I was drafted ahead
of in the NFC. How would that make you feel? Now,
I think we know how it would make you feel.
Based on those feelings, what would you be thinking about
all the stuff around you? Would you think, you know what,

(01:36:12):
Golly G firing the defensive coordinator? Yeah, that's enough. I'm
guessing the answer is no. I'm guessing the answer is no.
Just think about it for a second. How would you
feel about who you worked for, who you worked with,
who you were most closely tied to. I know what

(01:36:34):
I'd be thinking this weekend. I think I know what
Joe Burrow was thinking this weekend, and it's probably not
golly G had a night we won those last five games.
I'd be stewing. And if you've watched Joe's demeanor play
itself out over the course of the last two months,

(01:36:55):
I think you're with me in guessing that he is
going to be spending this weekend fuming. I'm watching those
quarterbacks play. I'm sure Joe thinks he's better than all
of them. He knows he's better than most of them.
They get to play. Joe sits at home. That can't happen.

(01:37:16):
That cannot happen, and yet it is seventeen minutes after
five o'clock. We're at Twin Peaks in Westchester. Let's do
some college troops next on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station,
Cincinnati's we are moments away from the Kentucky Sports Network

(01:37:37):
taking over at five thirty UK and Georgia tonight. The
Great Tom Leach, Jack Goo's Gibbons on the call, Dave Baker,
and Cameron Mills on the pregame show. I believe that
comes your way in just about four minutes. Kentucky coming
off a one hundred and six point performance on Saturday
in the SEC opener against Florida, you see in Xavier

(01:38:00):
play tonight. The Bearcats can make the NCAA tournament. If
they lose this game, they can do that. My question is,
do you want to flirt with that? We've talked all
season long, so far at least about how the Bearcats
should make the tournament, can make the tournament, Wes is
gonna end the school's NCAA tournament drought. I've always talked

(01:38:22):
about those things through the lens of like make the
tournament with ease, like us knowing by the middle of
February their locks where they can afford a loss late
in the season, or they can play in the Big
twelve tournament, and they don't need to win games in
the Big twelve tournament in order to make the NCAAA.
The more games you'll lose early, the more you gotta

(01:38:43):
win late. It's just like we've talked about with the Bengals.
More than that, though, I'm kind of more into the
basketball part of this right now because you see, as
eighteen games to go, the way they're playing offense right now,
they will not win the majority of them. Is it
poor shooting, Yes, you see started two of twenty two
on Saturday in the lost to Arizona. It's also and look, man,

(01:39:08):
I'm the last guy to pretend I can grab a
whiteboard and draw stuff up. But I know what broken
offense looks like. I know what good offense looks like.
This looks more like broken offense than good offense. They
the offense isn't creating shots. Wes Miller would be the
first to admit that the offense isn't creating shots, and
they don't have enough guys right now who can create

(01:39:28):
their own shot. That's not a good recipe. I feel
like you have to have one of the other, right
somebody who can create their own offense or an offense
that can create looks and create scoring opportunities. Right now,
they're getting neither. That's not a criticism aimed just at
the Arizona game or just at the Arizona in Kansas
State games. Those things were true when they were winning.

(01:39:51):
They were true when they beat Xavier. They were true
when they beat Dayton. They were masked by the fact
that they won those games. They're not being massed anymore.
That's got to get fixed, and if it doesn't get
fixed soon, then they're gonna have dug too deep of
a hole to recover from. Xavier's got to win the
next three games. Starting tonight, they are home underdogs against

(01:40:13):
Saint John's, a red store and team that is five
points away from being undefeated this season. The good news
is Zach Fremantle is back earlier than a lot of
people thought he was gonna come back. You get Saint
Johnson home at DePaul home for Villanova. If you don't
win the next three, you're staring at road Tilts against Marquette,
the return engagement in New York against Saint John's, Yukon

(01:40:36):
coming here and at Creighton. They've lost six out of nine.
The basketball part of this is, I don't know, if
you're Sean Miller on either end of the floor, what
can you count on? Like, what can you hang your
hat on tonight? I guess we'll assume that Zach Freemantle,
as he continues to work his way back, will be
what you can count on. I'm not sure in this
league that that's gonna be enough. Xaviers dug itself of

(01:41:00):
quite a whole one in three in the league, six
of nine losses overall, and it really feels like the
season hasn't even started yet, and suddenly they're in a
position where, not just tonight, they gotta win their next three.
We'll talk about all of that tomorrow. I want to
thank the staff here at Twin Peaks in Westchester for
having us anything you might have missed, go get on

(01:41:21):
the iHeartRadio app. Thanks to Mike Mills and Tarren Blandford producing,
We are Done. UK basketball Next on ESPN fifteen to
thirty

Speaker 1 (01:41:34):
Cincinnati's

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