February 17, 2026 • 41 mins
Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us to discuss tagging-and-trading Trey Hendrickson, his Mock Draft 0.5, a few Bengals draft possibilities, and whether he wants to get Nick Lachey on his podcast.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Stunning strikes, shot back to last second saves the Orange
and Blue deliver drama every game.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
And if that won't give you goosebumps, I don't know
what will.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
FC Cincinnati Soccer lives.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Here, Bayard dan Fee, Kidnap Bailey Tonight on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Paul Dayner Junior is here, and we are so soaked
to talk to him because in fifty five minutes, theoretically
the Bengals can tag Trey Hendrickson and I am absolutely
gonna do everything I can to just gnaw every even
most minuscule piece of meat off to Trey Hendrickson bone.
(00:45):
I'm not sure I like how that sounds anyway. So
Paul's here. In an hour, we have on Derek Cardy
Derek Carty over the weekend. You know, this is the
power of the internet. Reds fans like shame Derek Carty
into changing his opinion about the Reds. He's this ESPN
analytics betting expert who said the Reds are going to
go under their posted total because they're going to have
(01:07):
close to a bottom five starting rotation. Now I don't
agree with that. Nobody did. The Internet shame Derek Carty
into backtracking, and so he is going to talk about
his process, his thoughts on the reds, and maybe with
the meanest thing that anybody said to him was That
is coming up at four oh five. Full show preview
is available on Twitter right now at Moeger thanks to
(01:30):
share facts credit Union. Share Facts credit Union is your
credit union and you can become a member right now
at share facts dot org. Also, we are as we
have the last couple of weeks, we're streaming this hour
with Paul in studio on Twitter. So you could watch this.
This is really exciting. You could watch a radio show,
watch two middle aged guys talk about football. It's very exciting.
(01:53):
At Moegger on Twitter. Go ahead and watch how we
doing Paul.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
I'm doing great. Have you thought with Derek Carty maybe
bringing out a list of all the mean comments that
people made as take and reading them to him periodically
in between his points. I've heard that it can be
very funny thing that you can do, and I might
do this.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
We're going to sort of have to to get a
feel for what kind of sense of humor Derek has,
you know, because there's only there's a certain type of
person you can do that with someone who doesn't take
themselves that seriously, like Present Company. Yes, I don't know
if Derek is sensitive to internet comments. I mean, the
dude has been taken an absolute pounding on social media.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So it's not great to be the villain of the week.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
No, but I told him that on I DMed him
a big DM guy love DM and people love it,
love sliding in.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Don't do that.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
And I DM him and I'm like, hey, man, I'm
here in Cincinnati, I do radio. You are taking an
absolute pummeling. My apologies. Want to come on the radio.
And he's like, yeah, sure, no problem, And I'm like, cool,
I'm not going to add to the chorus of people
just destroying you.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I just have questions. I appreciate somebody willing to come
on and be like, yeah, let's do it. You know what.
No need to hide.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Then when I announced on social media Derek is joining
us on Tuesday, it was like, yeah, get them.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I'm like, that's not what we do.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
No, No, that's not Get him and say you have
this take, I want to know more about it. Explain
let's have a fun, friendly conversation about baseball.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, it's we're allowed to just discuss it like rational people.
I appreciate that and I've always enjoyed That's why I'm here.
I like coming on here.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
We're by the way, Paul Danner Junior covering the Bengals
for the Athletic dot Com. He's got the Growler podcast.
Latest episode came out a short while ago with the
great Steve Paulozolo.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
He's so good. Can't believe he didn't want me today.
I mean, I I have aliens topics that we need
to go over, like there was actual aliens news. Normally
we kind of just make up aliens news a news,
but there's real news. So I actually felt like we
did miss a bit of an opportunity. But Steve was
so great, he went long. You were allowed to have
(03:57):
a week off.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Thanks, thank you so much. By the way, Paul has
done mock draft zero point five. You could read that
at the Athletic dot Com. And we are going to
get to that. But we have to talk about the
tag window opening up.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
This is great. It feels like Christmas morning, does it. Yeah,
there's a different Holliwau. This is this is my last
go around with this in all likelihood, Yeah, that's true.
Potentially we maybe are finally getting to the end. Can
you imagine if it's not. That's all I keep going
back to. There's just like the you know, it's always
know how I feel so used to going down the
(04:29):
darkest timeline over here, Like I just feel like we're
always I'm so prepared for that that all I get
in my head is what if they go down the
darkest timeline? Please don't do this, Please don't do this.
Just let this. Let this be the last bit of
Trey Hendrickson news, this window, and whatever happens at the
end of the window, just please be it whatever it is.
(04:50):
Do not let this draw out and continue. Although you're
I'm sure you would love it for the sake of content.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yeah, So, as a Bengals fan, I don't want Trey
hendricks And to play for the team anymore.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I'm ready for this to be over.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
As a quote content creator, dude, are you kidding me?
This has been the gift that has kept on giving
for a while. I'm not ready to give it up.
This is like being in like a weird like a
pseudo toxic relationship, but like the craziness is something you
just can't totally quit.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's kind of how I feel about this, Yeah, that's fair.
I feel like it's just distracting from a really important time.
Like I feel like we're spending a lot of time
energy from what I see out there, yes, discussing the
potential acquisition of a third round pick. Right when how
(05:40):
many words did you get out of this last week?
Eleven hundred in the part of a middle of a
three part series. Not last week. This was multile weeks ago.
I got ahead of it, but because now I wanted
to leave this time open to focus on a really,
really important week for this team. And I feel like
there's not enough people recognizing that we're less than three
(06:03):
weeks away from the start of the tampering period, when
this team has to check off a number of different boxes,
none of them really have to do with Trey Hendrickson,
and I am finding myself diving more into that more
obsession over players that feel like they maybe are becoming
available in terms of, you know, the teams that are
(06:24):
starting to work out who's going to go, the potential
of trades that are starting to bubbling up beyond the
Trey Hendrickson situation, and I just think this is one
thing that they need to do and because of who
he is in the history, I understand. Yeah, I just
feel like, hey, there's a lot bigger fish to fry
(06:46):
here for this team right now now that they don't
know all of it. But just like that's kind of
where my mind has gone, is that free agency is
kind of where I'm looking at stuff right now, and
you're seeing what they need to be doing and they
should be getting closer to thinking about that unless you know,
domination of the news cycle with like are they going
to be able to tag in trade tre you said
(07:08):
trades bubbling up? Is that Bengals related? I just think
you're hearing so. I mean there's a lot of talk
and Steve and I were talking about this a lot
today about you know, with free agency not being as
strong this year as in terms of a class, and
you have also a lot of the coaching changes can
influence this as well, where you will have a lot
(07:30):
of coaches are going to come in and say, what,
that's not my guy, that's not he may be good,
he's making a lot of money, that's not my guy,
or a lot of times he's coaches in a new
place want somebody from their old place, or who is
under a under contract, and these in there there's teams
get creative and feeling like what they need is not
(07:53):
out there in free agency are more willing to do deals.
It feels like this could be a year because of them,
the may Cup of free agency, that you could see
more teams going that route because that's the only way
they can get what they need at certain positions. We've
talked a lot about the scarcity a defensive tackle, and
(08:13):
I think when you start getting into how are you
going to do this when you know you're talking about
John Franklin Myers or who I don't know, like the
type of guy you want, how do you get that guy?
Where does he come from? And so do you have
to trade? Do you have to start looking into other
avenues or even any kind of a pass rusher on
the type of deal you want. I just think because
of a lot of this, the situation, the state of
(08:36):
the league right now, with coaching changes, with the low
impact top of the free agent market combined, I think
that you just could see that start to turn into
a little bit more active market than it traditionally is.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
In your Trey Hendrickson eleven hundred word piece that was
a part of a three part set examining how the
Bengals improve their pass rush. You wrote this, the most
likely result is that Cincinnati follows the Jesse Bates template
and Hendrickson moves to another team.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
They still feel that way, I do, because I still
think that there is they need to and maybe they do.
They need to get compensation that they feel like they
deserve and can make that deal happen, and they haven't
in multiple opportunities to try to trade Tray in the past,
(09:35):
or how far down are they willing to go? Are
they willing to just take anything? Is are they going
to be able to execute a deal with if there's
multiple teams bidding? Can they pull that off? Trey's agent,
how's that going to go? Because what's the best case
scenario for him in his camp to hit free agents?
(09:55):
Of course, and so the idea that they're just gonna
be like let's do a Kumbai, Yeah, holding hands and
skipping together into the trade market, I don't think is
totally the truth, right, and other other and other teams,
other teams are gonna know they don't want him on
the team anymore. He's gonna end up a free agent.
(10:18):
I don't want to have to give up draft capital
to do this. It's just there's resistance at all these points.
And it's not that it can't be done, it's just
all those factors and the resistance there. I I don't
know that. It's not like it's some slam dunk because
of those resistance points. It's certainly possible, but you know,
(10:39):
it does not happen all the time.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
The chances are zero that if he was tagged he
would go ahead and sign it, that he would sign it,
that he would say, cool, you're stuck with me thirty
point two mil let's go.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I mean, if you won, heck of a bluff. I
don't think so. I think he just wants to get
his long term content somewhere. I don't think he would
take that route. But it's not like we've never seen it.
Feel like it has gotten low and out of control
between these two sides before, in terms of people trying
(11:13):
to make plays to get whatever they want. I wouldn't
rule anything out between these two when you can see
no possibility. Would I don't see it happen that. I'm
not going to rule it out. I'm not going to zero.
Anything can't zero me.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Multiple publications when they list this year's crop of free
agents from the very top to the very bottom, have
Trey Hendrickson is his number one or number two? The
latest one that I read today was the Ringer dot Com.
There he is at number one. How much of that
is a reflection he is going to be thirty two
years old, He's coming off a season where he missed
more than half of it because of injury. How much
(11:49):
of that, how much of that where he is ranked
in relation to the rest of the class is an
indictment against this class a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I mean some of it. I mean, it's pretty rare
to see somebody of that age. But it's also, I
mean an ode to what he was doing before he
got hurt lest year. I mean, and we have seen,
you know a few more players kind of defy the
tradition of age, sure by a year or two, you know,
(12:18):
where last year there were a few players too, and
there maybe thirty one, thirty two, thirty three season. We're
having productive years more so that certainly more so than
we have in the past.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Once upon a time there was this Andrew Whitworth guy. Yeah,
but the Bengals were like peace out, brother, yes, and
do you remember that I do. Yeah, it can happen.
It can happen, So I yeah, I mean I think
that it is. It is partial, it's it's a little
bit of both. I mean, there's not a lot of
overwhelming talent, young talent that's just sitting out there. Teams
(12:48):
are largely resigning their own guys, and that's a part
of this too. But I think it's also you know,
teams need pass rush man, they're always going to pay
for it. When you look at him, what he he's done,
when he's been healthy before last year, and you feel
like you're getting an inspired change of scenery.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Guy who's just been begging to go let lose somewhere.
He's worth it, certainly.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
So I promise we're going to talk about things that
don't have either much to do with Trey or nothing
to do with Tray.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I promise. Okay, I have a whole page of stuff here. Good.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
But so I read these lists where he's the best
free agent and right now the Bengals have some control
over him. If Trey Hendrickson was a free agent and
the Bengals needed a pass rusher and he was the
best guy available, I would say they should go after
Trey Hendrickson, right they pass rush is King need a
(13:45):
pass rusher. He's the number one free agent available. Why
shouldn't they be interested right now? I get it, they
have a lot of other positions to fix. They have
to spread the money across the defense because of the
pseudo overhaul that's needed. But is that a ridiculous way
of looking at things? Wait a minute, if the Bengals
were another If this was Trey Hendrickson who played the
(14:06):
last five years for the Arizona Cardinals, and he was
the best free agent available, we would want the Bengals
to sign him.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
So why shouldn't I want them to keep them? Because
it's time to move on, because there's other options, and
because they're already top heavy. I mean, I think there's
an interesting analysis. Like we've talked about them being bold
and the idea of Max Crosby and anybody that's come available.
(14:34):
Jeffersonmons name was thrown around by t and Jamar and
gain guys like that, and that's fine, that's cool, that's
the exciting thing, right, Yes, And the idea of signing
Trey Hendrickson is the same way. But I think they
ran into problems last year because they were top heavy,
because they were paying a lot of money to four
people and half of those people got hurt. Okay, And
when you do that, now you have given all of
(14:58):
so much of that money to one person or to
four people. When injuries happen, you're just sitting there and
you are six and eleven, right, and you can't close
a game, and you can't right now what they they
are top heavy already before they even sign anybody else.
So the idea of taking that and using it across
(15:19):
multiple starting level and bringing up the floor rather than
adding another ceiling person is a bigger part of where
they need to be now. I that doesn't mean you
close the door to being bold and a splash at all.
I think there's value to that in the right place.
The energy it can bring, the excitement we've talked about this, right,
I think that's all valuable. But I think in terms
(15:40):
of it has to be feel like a really exciting fit. Yeah,
it does not feel exciting. The first Trey Hendrickson to
come back here and play anymore like that does not
feel That feels speak for yourself, that's sick. I'm just
saying it feels like maybe that ship has sailed on
the excitement. Can I, okay, this is the last one
(16:02):
on this. Can I outline for you my dream scenario
Trey Hendrickson and the Bengals agree to terms on a
long term deal and then after about four months, Trey
is unhappy with said deal and mad that he signed it,
and we start this all over again. Yeah, that'd be great.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Would you rule out that possibility based on how this
is unfolded for the last two years.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
You've forgot the last fact on that story there, Bengals
Athletic beat writer quits comes next. That's at the end
of that. Now hiring. I don't know, man, post my
job on LinkedIn. You're big on there. Left it there
(16:45):
be almost worth it, man, almost almost. It's fine. It's fine.
Maybe he can he could take my spot every Tuesday
from three to four. You guys can talk about it
every week. And actually I listen to that three o'clock.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Paul Danner Junior of Theathletic dot Com and The Growler podcast,
which the latest episode dropped earlier today. You can catch
Paul's mock draft zero point five at the Athletic dot Com.
We will discuss that coming up on ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty traffic.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
From the UC Health Traffic Center. Around forty percent of
cancers are preventable. Lifestyle changes and screenings can make a difference.
Call five one three five eighty five. UCCC out there
on Vine. It's south of McMicken Avenue. Police there on
scene as well. Northbound seventy five looking at a five
(17:44):
minute delay between Mitchell and Paddock and southbound seventy five
construction between Ronald Reagan Highway and the Norwood Lateral. Three
minute delay from Cooper on at Ezelic with traffic.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
At three o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. More legg
Or Paul Danner Junior's here. We're streaming this hour line
on Twitter, so you could you could watch us. So
I went along that segment, which means this segment is short.
So I have a lot of these little smaller things
I like to throw at you.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I'm gonna do them here. Okay, you want me to
be quick? Oh no, no, I want you to talk
to the extent you feel like you need to be
round or something. We're wanna call it something lightning round.
How about that. That's original.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
I like that. Yeah, the NFLPA report cards being made public,
that's done.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
What should we make of that? There, We're still going
to probably see them, Okay, and that's good. That part
is good. But I yeah, it's the owner's man. They
got some thin skin big time. I mean yeah, just
any little thing that makes them look bad for a
second or holds them a little truth to them. Yeah,
they just can't. They just can't take it. I mean, like,
(18:46):
I just it's it's it's petty. I'm not the only
person to have this take. But like I think of
the life of an NFL head coach well compensated, but
still like every little thing you do, not only is
in public view, you have to answer questions. For an
NFL head coach has to do what like three press
conferences a week during the season and answer to everything.
An NFL player's performance has never been more picked apart, graded, debated, discussed, dissected,
(19:14):
and that's part of the gig for both. We can't
do a little of that with owners. No, they any
little bit of leverage the players ever have, they make
a case to squash it out in any capacity. And
this is just the latest example.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Joey Porter says, Ben Roethlisberger's like the worst human being ever?
Is this the least surprising development in your years covering
the NFL.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Look, there's a long line of history and stories you
can google about that, and non, no, I don't need
to go into that outfit.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
He didn't have one of his teammates come to his defense,
which I thought was yes, yeah, if.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
We were doing like one. Yeah, I was gonna say
if we did like a if you put at a
giant football field of his former teammates, how many would
go to the Ben Roethlisberger defense side and how many
would go to the other side is what I want
to know. I think I already know.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I have not listened to the latest episode of the
Fits and Wit podcast, but they did have on Nick
lache I saw that when does he make an appearance
on The Growler?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I told Steve Palzolo today that I was happy to
have somebody that had a much better chance of delivering
real news about the Bengals on my podcast as compared
to Fits All. Due respect to Fits in Wit, which
is a great podcast, very good podcast, I skipped that episode.
I'm not gonna lie it's it's a fair decision. I
would say that that was probably the right call.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
I didn't know if Nick Lache was conducting a media tour.
You know, he already appeared on our show.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
I did. I Yeah, I mean, I assume no one's
offered me the request. No, uh no, And I'm happy
to if he really wants to, happy to have him on.
I mean at this point, at this point, I feel
like it would be actually worth listening to. Okay, I
just want to know. My question would just be, do
you do you think that what you say about the
(20:58):
Bengals is news? That's all. That's all.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I'm gonna guess he thinks it's news. Sure, he's making
the rounds. He has a song that's out there, Yeah, sure, Yeah,
that's all right. I did like the fact that our
friend James or Peane's website referred to him as a
former pop star in the headline.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Say what is he then currently actively has a song
out right? He actively has a piece of music? Well,
I don't know, he's that's why anybody's talking about him.
Can you be a former pop star if there's a
piece of music that is quote new, that's out there
now that's a new release pop sugget. But that's just it.
He's not currently a star. Okay, artist, he could be
(21:42):
just an artist. Okay. Hey, I can put a song out,
does it make me a pop star? Okay, I'm not
putting a song out. I would like to hear that.
I know people have asked for the dis Track's not happening. Okay.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
We have the first mock draft to discuss, and also
the the Athletics run down of all the players who
may be cap casualty, because that's an interesting list. Is
interesting list, and then we'll go through it when we
come back. Sports headlines as well. Paul Danner Junior from
the Athletic and The Growler podcast on ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Nation, not just talk.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
This is sports with Soul, sweat and swagger. Tony Pike,
Sincy three sixty tomorrow at twelve noon on ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center. Around forty percent
of cancers are preventable. Lifestyle changes and screenings can make
a difference. Call five one three five eighty five UCCC
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Speaker 2 (23:02):
This report a sponsored Bouerla.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Home of lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed credit approval from
their family to yours for life kelseyshev dot com red
with another full squad workout today in a goodyear, Hunter
Green throwing live batting practice, Reds and Guardians on Saturday
at three ten on Fox Sports thirteen sixty. Tony Clark
has stepped down as the head of the Major League
(23:26):
Baseball Players Association.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
A significant development.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
If you understand that we're probably gonna have a lockout
at the end of this baseball season, we have twenty
four minutes for the window to open, and then Trey
Hendrickson could theoretically be franchise tagged by the Bengals. I
have an obligation to mention that in sports say we're
not going to pivot to another topic college basketball Tonight,
Xavier host Villanova at six point thirty on seven hundred WLW.
(23:51):
Miami looks for a twenty sixth consecutive victory on the
road tonight against UMass at seven o'clock. Kentucky battles Georgia
on ESPN fifteen thirty, tip off at nine pm, and
Ohio State takes on Wisconsin. Tonight we'll chat with Derek Carty,
who's the guy who the Internet just destroyed over the
weekend ESPN betting writer who said the Reds are not
(24:13):
going to win a lot of games and they're going
to have a bad pitching rotation, and then he was
bullied into changing his mind.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
That is coming up at four oh five. Have you
ever been an Internet villain? Yeah, just recently. I was
not bullied into changing my mind though, so my stand
still still is in place. Do you want to elaborate
on that? No, or pivot to what's next? I want
to it's your show. You drive him, right, I'm just
(24:39):
in the passenger seat. Take me where you want to go.
Let's go. Let's talk about your mock draft. Okay, first
of how many? How many were we gonna have? Well?
This so this is zero point five, zero point five,
there will probably be I did. We had a beat
writer one today just with the first round. So it's
just the first round pick, which I had to do,
which is an interesting decision. And then I'll have another
(25:00):
one before free agency zero point seventy five. Okay, one
another one before free agency, so I keep. And then
the post free agency mock draft is the first real
big one. And after that and then there's usually we
usually get into the three or four range. Okay, So
but that's like the first where you can make the
accurate seven round deal because we know the path that
(25:24):
they need to go to get to you know, the
starting roster.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
All right, this will not make you an Internet villain
because you have them in the first round taking rubin Dan.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, wouldn't that be nice? That'd be awesome. I went
off of Dane's top one hundred just to give some parameters,
because you can say whatever, but I used as an
eighty percent rule. Anything as eighty percent to where their
actual pick is. Put the universe of players out there,
and Bain was he has not hit him nine. Talk
(25:55):
about a storyline of the combine next week is how
long is arms? How freak right, and it's like you
feel like the Bengals are gonna be like trying to
push the tape measure in a little bit to try
to I don't know. I heard it was like twenty
seven inches. We've never seen that. It's not even human. Uh,
they would love it because though they would love to
(26:17):
see that be the reason he falls out. I don't
know that that's gonna happen, but it's gonna be a
really interesting topic to hear how it lands in Indie
with coaches and evaluators because his production is certainly speaks
for itself and they would love to be able to
see him be the guy. We did our mock draft
today and most of the names that people really like
(26:42):
to see, Caleb Downs, Rubin Bain, Bailey, all these kind
of are all gone. And I kind of came down
to a decision between Sunny Styles at linebacker from Ohio
State and man Sword Delaye. I'm not great. I haven't
done the pronunciation key on him yet. The cornerback smells
you who's the number one cornerback in the league. It's
(27:04):
an interesting topic because if you come down to that,
what do you do right premium number one player at
a premium position or playmaker at a non premium position,
but maybe the better overall player but less valuable and
(27:25):
what is more important to you and to me, like
we're also fresh off the rookie linebacker experience and so
no one wants to have to start doing that again.
But it's different when you're talking about a guy who
you would take ten overall. But to me it is
the tiebreaker is what happens in free agency because if
you are able to take care of that position and
(27:48):
feel like you don't need starters in what we talk about,
actually check your boxes off in free agency so you
can be best player available. You have the luxury of
taking the number one corner who gives you depth at
that a premium position, who gives you certainly that's type
of player you take to go win in January, right
because not everyone's going to make a Dax Hill and
DJ and two guys in the last year. There are
(28:10):
contracts you're in negotiations with. Doesn't force your hand on
those in case you're like thinking down the line, but
you build out a deep team and a deep roster
capable of playing and winning in December and January by
doing things like that, and it's a move the Bengals
have made a lot, and so it's intriguing. But if
you're like, are we really running to Metrius Knight and
(28:31):
Barrett carterback out there again? Yeah, you're like throw sunny
styles into the mix. So I think it's a really
interesting situation where if you are in that grouping, that
next grouping where you would want to go, and I
you know, it'll be interesting to you know, tap into
what Duke Tobin and Zach Taylor have to say in
terms of non premium positions and some of their feelings
(28:51):
on that. If maybe that's changed after last year.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
When I watch smart people break down Caleb Down's tape,
I almost get aroused easy. I mean, I'm you know,
I didn't, I wasn't graphic, but it becomes impossible for
me to stop thinking about what he would do for
the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
He would obviously have to be there.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
But when you watch and I'm sure you could do
this with all the other players you just mentioned, but
it kind of felt like there was a time last
week where a lot of the tape heads were focusing
in on Caleb Downs and watching some of that content.
Maybe I'm spoiled after watching two years of Genostone. I
don't know, but like, how do you not get excited
about the possibility of what that could mean for the
(29:37):
Bengals if he was there at ten?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
He's exactly the type of player they need. Yes he is.
He's a floor razer, he's a culture setter, He's a
super intelligent guy that's going to be a professional from
the moment he walks in. Yeah, he's the type of
guy that you can build your defense around in terms
of the instinctual way that he plays and the way
he carries himself. That's his from the day he walked
(30:01):
into the door at Ohio State. And when you throw
that just feels like stuff they need more of. And
I don't care what position he plays, especially when it's
a position that is becoming more premium by the year
in this league the way that we've seen the league trend,
so I he just seems like a no brainer if
he's there at ten. I just think it's a it's
(30:22):
a shame for the Bengals that this isn't a better
year in the top ten where he you could say, yeah,
Caleb Downs should be there because he's in a quote
unquote non premium position. It's just it's a lot harder
to see that when you know, we were going through
this exercise with the Athletic writers and it was the
person with the six overall pick was like willing to
(30:43):
trade down. The person with fifth came in next, me too,
fourth was like, I'll get out everybody. You know what
he wants. So you're gonna end up being like, I
know it's a non premium position, but I'll take Caleb down.
That feels like how this goes with somebody in the
top ten, So we don't. I'm just I understand what
you're saying.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
But oh, if the if your consolation prize is that, dude,
are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah? Right, find me an NFL team he doesn't help immediately. Yeah,
there's there's no doubt. And I it's hard to envision
a better fit uh than here, because it's just he's
he's perfectly made for what they most need.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
The Reuben Baine arm size discussion that will be had
next week. Right, So for the Bengals last year, it
was they couldn't get past Samar Stewart having all these
amazing physical traits, right, and then now it's you know,
maybe they should lean into the production on the field.
Does that Is that the same if now there's like
(31:46):
a genuine question about the physical trade, right, well, will
it be Will that be a disqualifier for them? Will
that be something that they just it's a tie breaker. Yes,
show me whatever tape you want, show me the the
level of disruption he provided playing college football. But sorry,
the arms are too small. That feels like something that
(32:07):
they would do if you buy that what they did
last year is going to be the template they use
moving forward.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Yeah, but I think you know, they would look at
their own personal examples of guys like Trey Hendrickson and
on the interior Geno Atkins who have had short arms notably,
and it's been part of the reason why they slipped
down the draft. But I mean, if there was a
team that knows that it's not that big of a deal,
it would be the Bengals. Two of their top sack
(32:35):
artists of all time had this issue. But yeah, you're right,
I mean they would want bigger, faster, longer, stronger that
all that stuff. So it's a question if if your
team Shamar Stuart, how can you be team Rubin Baine necessarily.
I do think there's a middle ground there. But yeah,
I really am curious about what the Shamar Stuart impact
(33:00):
is a little bit, if there, if there is one,
because you know, not just that and obviously the amount
of time it took Miles uh to try to start
to come along, you know, if that is leaving more
of an impact than it had in the past, and
where Ruben Bain fits in that. I still think they
look at Bain and say that's enough. The production is
(33:23):
more than enough to overlook some of the other stuff.
Though at the end of the day, did you watch
him play football?
Speaker 3 (33:29):
I mean that would be that would be like, all right,
bring out the tape measure, give me to the exact
centimeter how long his arms are? Cool, then let's let's
turn off. Let's put let's flip on this screen and
put the tape on of him at Miami, Like stop
telling me about the short arms?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yes, Like sorry, well, and especially and like we just said,
especially when you're talking about a year where you're you're
at ten and you're willing to settle for deficiencies, when
you're talking about who's even gonna be if that was
a real thing you're like, whatever the production is enough,
especially when you're comparing it to what you're settling for
if you're going in another direction.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Your fellow Beat writers that the Athletic went through a
list of for every team potential cap casualties, and some
of those names seemed inevitable, some seemed like, you know, possibilities,
some intriguing, some maybe a little bit less so. But
you've pointed out like, if you look at that list
of players who could be cut by other teams, there's
(34:25):
a lot of guys that would make sense to wonder
should the Bengals be interested and would they be a
good fit. Here, Give me one or two of those
names that jumped to the top of the list for years.
It relates to this team. Rashawan Gary from Green Bay,
who Matt Schneidman our Green Bay Riders said, I don't
see him on the team this next year. Now, Rashwan
(34:49):
has one hundred and seventy five pressures and twenty six
acts the last three years.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
He fell off a little bit at the tail end
of last season. But you know, they're paying Michael Parsons
a lot of money and they have other guys. I
think they're potentially looking to cut and can save a
lot of money by letting him go. Sean Gary Jerry
Montgomery was his coach when he had his kind of
coming out party in Green Bay, and the Bengals love
that stuff. They a feeling like they know the guy
(35:18):
and so that and the production that he's had he's
twenty eight years old, is certainly a name that if
he became available because they just let him go, or
because there was a possibility to pull some kind of
a trade for him and take on it, that would
be a name that would be certainly be pretty intriguing
and would be a fit for what you traditionally see
(35:39):
the Bengals. It kind of reminds me of like when
Orlando Brown fell into their lap a little bit, where
it's like he's a really good player. Now he might
not be at the top tip, but he's like more
than enough for what you're looking for. Yeah, and then
when you add in a guy that might have a
connection to your defensive line coach that you really like.
That was the most intriguing one that I was expecting
(36:00):
to see that stood out on the list, certainly, But
there there was, but that one that one stood out
to me, how long are his arms? I don't care.
So once they've gotten to the NFL, we no longer.
I don't care anymore. I don't care anymore. I saw,
I saw, you know, one hundred and seventy five pressures
and twenty six acts, I said their mother, I'm good.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Yeah, yes, perfect, don't don't need to worry about that.
You had them cutting BJ Hill. Now this is an
exercise where like you have to have somebody right. You
couldn't say, well, they're not going to cut anything. Yeah,
they asked most like essentially like most likely, so most
likely for that exercise. But is that a likely decision
they make? No, I don't think it's a likely decision.
I I think it's one that you could see them
(36:45):
making if they it's an is there an upgrade out there?
Because then Chris Jenkins could be your rotational backup guy
and you're using BJ Hill's money to get whatever the
other guy is.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Another like, Kenny Clark has been a name that's been
thrown around because in Dallas they've got a little bit
of a backlog with the defensive tackles they've gotten. If
you could acquire a Kenny Clark and maybe you're mixing
and you need money and you're figuring out what the
new rotation looks like. He could fall. I just his
his money and production are the type that you have
(37:19):
to look at, and he has a roster bonus coming,
so those are That's why it stands out. I wouldn't
say likely yet, but it's certainly going to be analyzed.
You'll be at the Combine next week and so Tuesday
is the day that Zach and Duke are going to talk. Duke,
I'm sure we'll spend five minutes talking about Joe Flacco,
(37:39):
So I'm excited for that. Then later on in the week, coordinators,
from a Bengals perspective, when you go to Indy, what
is the thing you're most interested in learning? Finding out
that sort of thing, Well, you know, there's been a
lot more to find out in recent years, and it
is much like the last couple of months. It feels
(38:00):
like one of the more boring trips to the Combine
from a Bengals perspective, because a lot of things feel
like they're in order. But I think you want to
you want to get a good feel for their aggressiveness
level at free agency, their approach to what those positions
that they're attacking are going to be how they view
(38:21):
maybe a few of their other players guys. I mean,
like we just talked about the bj Hills of the world,
and some of the guys they have conversations that need
to be had about and some of the stuff we
were talking about non premium positions. Maybe we'll have a
question about arm length. Oh yeah, like all I think
there's they're in an interesting spot that way, But to me,
(38:43):
it will start with what their view of free agency
is right now, because if you're getting a sense of, well,
we don't feel like we like where Barrett and Demetrius
are at, or we.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Feel like if I hear that sentence and I'm driving
a car, lookout.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I'm just saying, like, these are the type of sentences, yeah,
that you'll occasionally hear uttered like like the year that
they they said, look, I thought Bobby Hart played great,
Like I'll never forget it right. We were walking out
of there, like I think he just said he they
like Bobby Hart, and you just hear these sentences and
you're like, oh, they have a little bit different view
(39:23):
than I was anticipating. So that's I think their view
of what this defense needs, who needs to be a
part of it, Who is capable of being the starter
on opening day? Is going to be interesting to see
where they've kind of landed after there, you know, a
couple months here of evaluation.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Next Tuesday, I will be in Lubbock, Texas and congratulations, thanks,
I'll be you see plays that night against Texas Tech,
right for their second consecutive upset against a national rank team.
As I'm following everything happening in Indy on Tuesday, if
I read or hear the words we like where we
are with Barrett and Demetrius, I'm going to go to
a cattle ranch and I'm gonna instruct a cowboy to
(40:02):
take one of those branding irons.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
And like, do it in my stomach or something. Suggest
so don't tweet it is what you're saying. Give me
a heads up, okay, all right, you know, just give
me a text like, hey, why do you why don't
you log off? Why don't you not go on the
interesting thing?
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Yeah? Right, I will go to a ranch and say, cowboy,
heat it up. Paul Danner Jr. On Twitter at Paul
Danner Junior covering the Bengals forth the Athletic dot Com.
He'll have full coverage of the Bengals to the Combine
next week. And the latest episode of the Growlar podcast
features Steve Pelozzolo, who is awesome. So check that out,
(40:40):
which I will do on my ride home. It is
seven away from four o'clock. Derek Carty, who Reds fans
have shamed, is gonna join us in ten minutes on
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
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Accident on the off ramp to State Route one twenty
(41:22):
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Speaker 2 (41:31):
This report is sponsored by cap
Stunning strikes, shot back to last second saves the Orange
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Speaker 2 (00:08):
And if that won't give you goosebumps, I don't know
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
FC Cincinnati Soccer lives.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Here, Bayard dan Fee, Kidnap Bailey Tonight on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Paul Dayner Junior is here, and we are so soaked
to talk to him because in fifty five minutes, theoretically
the Bengals can tag Trey Hendrickson and I am absolutely
gonna do everything I can to just gnaw every even
most minuscule piece of meat off to Trey Hendrickson bone.
(00:45):
I'm not sure I like how that sounds anyway. So
Paul's here. In an hour, we have on Derek Cardy
Derek Carty over the weekend. You know, this is the
power of the internet. Reds fans like shame Derek Carty
into changing his opinion about the Reds. He's this ESPN
analytics betting expert who said the Reds are going to
go under their posted total because they're going to have
(01:07):
close to a bottom five starting rotation. Now I don't
agree with that. Nobody did. The Internet shame Derek Carty
into backtracking, and so he is going to talk about
his process, his thoughts on the reds, and maybe with
the meanest thing that anybody said to him was That
is coming up at four oh five. Full show preview
is available on Twitter right now at Moeger thanks to
(01:30):
share facts credit Union. Share Facts credit Union is your
credit union and you can become a member right now
at share facts dot org. Also, we are as we
have the last couple of weeks, we're streaming this hour
with Paul in studio on Twitter. So you could watch this.
This is really exciting. You could watch a radio show,
watch two middle aged guys talk about football. It's very exciting.
(01:53):
At Moegger on Twitter. Go ahead and watch how we
doing Paul.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
I'm doing great. Have you thought with Derek Carty maybe
bringing out a list of all the mean comments that
people made as take and reading them to him periodically
in between his points. I've heard that it can be
very funny thing that you can do, and I might
do this.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
We're going to sort of have to to get a
feel for what kind of sense of humor Derek has,
you know, because there's only there's a certain type of
person you can do that with someone who doesn't take
themselves that seriously, like Present Company. Yes, I don't know
if Derek is sensitive to internet comments. I mean, the
dude has been taken an absolute pounding on social media.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So it's not great to be the villain of the week.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
No, but I told him that on I DMed him
a big DM guy love DM and people love it,
love sliding in.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Don't do that.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
And I DM him and I'm like, hey, man, I'm
here in Cincinnati, I do radio. You are taking an
absolute pummeling. My apologies. Want to come on the radio.
And he's like, yeah, sure, no problem, And I'm like, cool,
I'm not going to add to the chorus of people
just destroying you.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I just have questions. I appreciate somebody willing to come
on and be like, yeah, let's do it. You know what.
No need to hide.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Then when I announced on social media Derek is joining
us on Tuesday, it was like, yeah, get them.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I'm like, that's not what we do.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
No, No, that's not Get him and say you have
this take, I want to know more about it. Explain
let's have a fun, friendly conversation about baseball.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, it's we're allowed to just discuss it like rational people.
I appreciate that and I've always enjoyed That's why I'm here.
I like coming on here.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
We're by the way, Paul Danner Junior covering the Bengals
for the Athletic dot Com. He's got the Growler podcast.
Latest episode came out a short while ago with the
great Steve Paulozolo.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
He's so good. Can't believe he didn't want me today.
I mean, I I have aliens topics that we need
to go over, like there was actual aliens news. Normally
we kind of just make up aliens news a news,
but there's real news. So I actually felt like we
did miss a bit of an opportunity. But Steve was
so great, he went long. You were allowed to have
(03:57):
a week off.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Thanks, thank you so much. By the way, Paul has
done mock draft zero point five. You could read that
at the Athletic dot Com. And we are going to
get to that. But we have to talk about the
tag window opening up.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
This is great. It feels like Christmas morning, does it. Yeah,
there's a different Holliwau. This is this is my last
go around with this in all likelihood, Yeah, that's true.
Potentially we maybe are finally getting to the end. Can
you imagine if it's not. That's all I keep going
back to. There's just like the you know, it's always
know how I feel so used to going down the
(04:29):
darkest timeline over here, Like I just feel like we're
always I'm so prepared for that that all I get
in my head is what if they go down the
darkest timeline? Please don't do this, Please don't do this.
Just let this. Let this be the last bit of
Trey Hendrickson news, this window, and whatever happens at the
end of the window, just please be it whatever it is.
(04:50):
Do not let this draw out and continue. Although you're
I'm sure you would love it for the sake of content.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yeah, So, as a Bengals fan, I don't want Trey
hendricks And to play for the team anymore.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I'm ready for this to be over.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
As a quote content creator, dude, are you kidding me?
This has been the gift that has kept on giving
for a while. I'm not ready to give it up.
This is like being in like a weird like a
pseudo toxic relationship, but like the craziness is something you
just can't totally quit.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's kind of how I feel about this, Yeah, that's fair.
I feel like it's just distracting from a really important time.
Like I feel like we're spending a lot of time
energy from what I see out there, yes, discussing the
potential acquisition of a third round pick. Right when how
(05:40):
many words did you get out of this last week?
Eleven hundred in the part of a middle of a
three part series. Not last week. This was multile weeks ago.
I got ahead of it, but because now I wanted
to leave this time open to focus on a really,
really important week for this team. And I feel like
there's not enough people recognizing that we're less than three
(06:03):
weeks away from the start of the tampering period, when
this team has to check off a number of different boxes,
none of them really have to do with Trey Hendrickson,
and I am finding myself diving more into that more
obsession over players that feel like they maybe are becoming
available in terms of, you know, the teams that are
(06:24):
starting to work out who's going to go, the potential
of trades that are starting to bubbling up beyond the
Trey Hendrickson situation, and I just think this is one
thing that they need to do and because of who
he is in the history, I understand. Yeah, I just
feel like, hey, there's a lot bigger fish to fry
(06:46):
here for this team right now now that they don't
know all of it. But just like that's kind of
where my mind has gone, is that free agency is
kind of where I'm looking at stuff right now, and
you're seeing what they need to be doing and they
should be getting closer to thinking about that unless you know,
domination of the news cycle with like are they going
to be able to tag in trade tre you said
(07:08):
trades bubbling up? Is that Bengals related? I just think
you're hearing so. I mean there's a lot of talk
and Steve and I were talking about this a lot
today about you know, with free agency not being as
strong this year as in terms of a class, and
you have also a lot of the coaching changes can
influence this as well, where you will have a lot
(07:30):
of coaches are going to come in and say, what,
that's not my guy, that's not he may be good,
he's making a lot of money, that's not my guy,
or a lot of times he's coaches in a new
place want somebody from their old place, or who is
under a under contract, and these in there there's teams
get creative and feeling like what they need is not
(07:53):
out there in free agency are more willing to do deals.
It feels like this could be a year because of them,
the may Cup of free agency, that you could see
more teams going that route because that's the only way
they can get what they need at certain positions. We've
talked a lot about the scarcity a defensive tackle, and
(08:13):
I think when you start getting into how are you
going to do this when you know you're talking about
John Franklin Myers or who I don't know, like the
type of guy you want, how do you get that guy?
Where does he come from? And so do you have
to trade? Do you have to start looking into other
avenues or even any kind of a pass rusher on
the type of deal you want. I just think because
of a lot of this, the situation, the state of
(08:36):
the league right now, with coaching changes, with the low
impact top of the free agent market combined, I think
that you just could see that start to turn into
a little bit more active market than it traditionally is.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
In your Trey Hendrickson eleven hundred word piece that was
a part of a three part set examining how the
Bengals improve their pass rush. You wrote this, the most
likely result is that Cincinnati follows the Jesse Bates template
and Hendrickson moves to another team.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
They still feel that way, I do, because I still
think that there is they need to and maybe they do.
They need to get compensation that they feel like they
deserve and can make that deal happen, and they haven't
in multiple opportunities to try to trade Tray in the past,
(09:35):
or how far down are they willing to go? Are
they willing to just take anything? Is are they going
to be able to execute a deal with if there's
multiple teams bidding? Can they pull that off? Trey's agent,
how's that going to go? Because what's the best case
scenario for him in his camp to hit free agents?
(09:55):
Of course, and so the idea that they're just gonna
be like let's do a Kumbai, Yeah, holding hands and
skipping together into the trade market, I don't think is
totally the truth, right, and other other and other teams,
other teams are gonna know they don't want him on
the team anymore. He's gonna end up a free agent.
(10:18):
I don't want to have to give up draft capital
to do this. It's just there's resistance at all these points.
And it's not that it can't be done, it's just
all those factors and the resistance there. I I don't
know that. It's not like it's some slam dunk because
of those resistance points. It's certainly possible, but you know,
(10:39):
it does not happen all the time.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
The chances are zero that if he was tagged he
would go ahead and sign it, that he would sign it,
that he would say, cool, you're stuck with me thirty
point two mil let's go.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I mean, if you won, heck of a bluff. I
don't think so. I think he just wants to get
his long term content somewhere. I don't think he would
take that route. But it's not like we've never seen it.
Feel like it has gotten low and out of control
between these two sides before, in terms of people trying
(11:13):
to make plays to get whatever they want. I wouldn't
rule anything out between these two when you can see
no possibility. Would I don't see it happen that. I'm
not going to rule it out. I'm not going to zero.
Anything can't zero me.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Multiple publications when they list this year's crop of free
agents from the very top to the very bottom, have
Trey Hendrickson is his number one or number two? The
latest one that I read today was the Ringer dot Com.
There he is at number one. How much of that
is a reflection he is going to be thirty two
years old, He's coming off a season where he missed
more than half of it because of injury. How much
(11:49):
of that, how much of that where he is ranked
in relation to the rest of the class is an
indictment against this class a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I mean some of it. I mean, it's pretty rare
to see somebody of that age. But it's also, I
mean an ode to what he was doing before he
got hurt lest year. I mean, and we have seen,
you know a few more players kind of defy the
tradition of age, sure by a year or two, you know,
(12:18):
where last year there were a few players too, and
there maybe thirty one, thirty two, thirty three season. We're
having productive years more so that certainly more so than
we have in the past.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Once upon a time there was this Andrew Whitworth guy. Yeah,
but the Bengals were like peace out, brother, yes, and
do you remember that I do. Yeah, it can happen.
It can happen, So I yeah, I mean I think
that it is. It is partial, it's it's a little
bit of both. I mean, there's not a lot of
overwhelming talent, young talent that's just sitting out there. Teams
(12:48):
are largely resigning their own guys, and that's a part
of this too. But I think it's also you know,
teams need pass rush man, they're always going to pay
for it. When you look at him, what he he's done,
when he's been healthy before last year, and you feel
like you're getting an inspired change of scenery.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Guy who's just been begging to go let lose somewhere.
He's worth it, certainly.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
So I promise we're going to talk about things that
don't have either much to do with Trey or nothing
to do with Tray.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I promise. Okay, I have a whole page of stuff here. Good.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
But so I read these lists where he's the best
free agent and right now the Bengals have some control
over him. If Trey Hendrickson was a free agent and
the Bengals needed a pass rusher and he was the
best guy available, I would say they should go after
Trey Hendrickson, right they pass rush is King need a
(13:45):
pass rusher. He's the number one free agent available. Why
shouldn't they be interested right now? I get it, they
have a lot of other positions to fix. They have
to spread the money across the defense because of the
pseudo overhaul that's needed. But is that a ridiculous way
of looking at things? Wait a minute, if the Bengals
were another If this was Trey Hendrickson who played the
(14:06):
last five years for the Arizona Cardinals, and he was
the best free agent available, we would want the Bengals
to sign him.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
So why shouldn't I want them to keep them? Because
it's time to move on, because there's other options, and
because they're already top heavy. I mean, I think there's
an interesting analysis. Like we've talked about them being bold
and the idea of Max Crosby and anybody that's come available.
(14:34):
Jeffersonmons name was thrown around by t and Jamar and
gain guys like that, and that's fine, that's cool, that's
the exciting thing, right, Yes, And the idea of signing
Trey Hendrickson is the same way. But I think they
ran into problems last year because they were top heavy,
because they were paying a lot of money to four
people and half of those people got hurt. Okay, And
when you do that, now you have given all of
(14:58):
so much of that money to one person or to
four people. When injuries happen, you're just sitting there and
you are six and eleven, right, and you can't close
a game, and you can't right now what they they
are top heavy already before they even sign anybody else.
So the idea of taking that and using it across
(15:19):
multiple starting level and bringing up the floor rather than
adding another ceiling person is a bigger part of where
they need to be now. I that doesn't mean you
close the door to being bold and a splash at all.
I think there's value to that in the right place.
The energy it can bring, the excitement we've talked about this, right,
I think that's all valuable. But I think in terms
(15:40):
of it has to be feel like a really exciting fit. Yeah,
it does not feel exciting. The first Trey Hendrickson to
come back here and play anymore like that does not
feel That feels speak for yourself, that's sick. I'm just
saying it feels like maybe that ship has sailed on
the excitement. Can I, okay, this is the last one
(16:02):
on this. Can I outline for you my dream scenario
Trey Hendrickson and the Bengals agree to terms on a
long term deal and then after about four months, Trey
is unhappy with said deal and mad that he signed it,
and we start this all over again. Yeah, that'd be great.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Would you rule out that possibility based on how this
is unfolded for the last two years.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
You've forgot the last fact on that story there, Bengals
Athletic beat writer quits comes next. That's at the end
of that. Now hiring. I don't know, man, post my
job on LinkedIn. You're big on there. Left it there
(16:45):
be almost worth it, man, almost almost. It's fine. It's fine.
Maybe he can he could take my spot every Tuesday
from three to four. You guys can talk about it
every week. And actually I listen to that three o'clock.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Paul Danner Junior of Theathletic dot Com and The Growler podcast,
which the latest episode dropped earlier today. You can catch
Paul's mock draft zero point five at the Athletic dot Com.
We will discuss that coming up on ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty traffic.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
From the UC Health Traffic Center. Around forty percent of
cancers are preventable. Lifestyle changes and screenings can make a difference.
Call five one three five eighty five. UCCC out there
on Vine. It's south of McMicken Avenue. Police there on
scene as well. Northbound seventy five looking at a five
(17:44):
minute delay between Mitchell and Paddock and southbound seventy five
construction between Ronald Reagan Highway and the Norwood Lateral. Three
minute delay from Cooper on at Ezelic with traffic.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
At three o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. More legg
Or Paul Danner Junior's here. We're streaming this hour line
on Twitter, so you could you could watch us. So
I went along that segment, which means this segment is short.
So I have a lot of these little smaller things
I like to throw at you.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I'm gonna do them here. Okay, you want me to
be quick? Oh no, no, I want you to talk
to the extent you feel like you need to be
round or something. We're wanna call it something lightning round.
How about that. That's original.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
I like that. Yeah, the NFLPA report cards being made public,
that's done.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
What should we make of that? There, We're still going
to probably see them, Okay, and that's good. That part
is good. But I yeah, it's the owner's man. They
got some thin skin big time. I mean yeah, just
any little thing that makes them look bad for a
second or holds them a little truth to them. Yeah,
they just can't. They just can't take it. I mean, like,
(18:46):
I just it's it's it's petty. I'm not the only
person to have this take. But like I think of
the life of an NFL head coach well compensated, but
still like every little thing you do, not only is
in public view, you have to answer questions. For an
NFL head coach has to do what like three press
conferences a week during the season and answer to everything.
An NFL player's performance has never been more picked apart, graded, debated, discussed, dissected,
(19:14):
and that's part of the gig for both. We can't
do a little of that with owners. No, they any
little bit of leverage the players ever have, they make
a case to squash it out in any capacity. And
this is just the latest example.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Joey Porter says, Ben Roethlisberger's like the worst human being ever?
Is this the least surprising development in your years covering
the NFL.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Look, there's a long line of history and stories you
can google about that, and non, no, I don't need
to go into that outfit.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
He didn't have one of his teammates come to his defense,
which I thought was yes, yeah, if.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
We were doing like one. Yeah, I was gonna say
if we did like a if you put at a
giant football field of his former teammates, how many would
go to the Ben Roethlisberger defense side and how many
would go to the other side is what I want
to know. I think I already know.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I have not listened to the latest episode of the
Fits and Wit podcast, but they did have on Nick
lache I saw that when does he make an appearance
on The Growler?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I told Steve Palzolo today that I was happy to
have somebody that had a much better chance of delivering
real news about the Bengals on my podcast as compared
to Fits All. Due respect to Fits in Wit, which
is a great podcast, very good podcast, I skipped that episode.
I'm not gonna lie it's it's a fair decision. I
would say that that was probably the right call.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
I didn't know if Nick Lache was conducting a media tour.
You know, he already appeared on our show.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
I did. I Yeah, I mean, I assume no one's
offered me the request. No, uh no, And I'm happy
to if he really wants to, happy to have him on.
I mean at this point, at this point, I feel
like it would be actually worth listening to. Okay, I
just want to know. My question would just be, do
you do you think that what you say about the
(20:58):
Bengals is news? That's all. That's all.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I'm gonna guess he thinks it's news. Sure, he's making
the rounds. He has a song that's out there, Yeah, sure, Yeah,
that's all right. I did like the fact that our
friend James or Peane's website referred to him as a
former pop star in the headline.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Say what is he then currently actively has a song
out right? He actively has a piece of music? Well,
I don't know, he's that's why anybody's talking about him.
Can you be a former pop star if there's a
piece of music that is quote new, that's out there
now that's a new release pop sugget. But that's just it.
He's not currently a star. Okay, artist, he could be
(21:42):
just an artist. Okay. Hey, I can put a song out,
does it make me a pop star? Okay, I'm not
putting a song out. I would like to hear that.
I know people have asked for the dis Track's not happening. Okay.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
We have the first mock draft to discuss, and also
the the Athletics run down of all the players who
may be cap casualty, because that's an interesting list. Is
interesting list, and then we'll go through it when we
come back. Sports headlines as well. Paul Danner Junior from
the Athletic and The Growler podcast on ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Nation, not just talk.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
This is sports with Soul, sweat and swagger. Tony Pike,
Sincy three sixty tomorrow at twelve noon on ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center. Around forty percent
of cancers are preventable. Lifestyle changes and screenings can make
a difference. Call five one three five eighty five UCCC
only accident out there now cleared away. That was on
Vine Street south of mcmickon Avenue northbound seventy five some
slow traffic between the Norwood Lateral and Paddock Road. That's
(22:53):
a two minute delay southbound two seventy five down the
one lane at the Indiana Kentucky line for repairs to
the Carroll Crop Bridge on at Ezelk with traffic.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
This report a sponsored Bouerla.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Home of lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed credit approval from
their family to yours for life kelseyshev dot com red
with another full squad workout today in a goodyear, Hunter
Green throwing live batting practice, Reds and Guardians on Saturday
at three ten on Fox Sports thirteen sixty. Tony Clark
has stepped down as the head of the Major League
(23:26):
Baseball Players Association.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
A significant development.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
If you understand that we're probably gonna have a lockout
at the end of this baseball season, we have twenty
four minutes for the window to open, and then Trey
Hendrickson could theoretically be franchise tagged by the Bengals. I
have an obligation to mention that in sports say we're
not going to pivot to another topic college basketball Tonight,
Xavier host Villanova at six point thirty on seven hundred WLW.
(23:51):
Miami looks for a twenty sixth consecutive victory on the
road tonight against UMass at seven o'clock. Kentucky battles Georgia
on ESPN fifteen thirty, tip off at nine pm, and
Ohio State takes on Wisconsin. Tonight we'll chat with Derek Carty,
who's the guy who the Internet just destroyed over the
weekend ESPN betting writer who said the Reds are not
(24:13):
going to win a lot of games and they're going
to have a bad pitching rotation, and then he was
bullied into changing his mind.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
That is coming up at four oh five. Have you
ever been an Internet villain? Yeah, just recently. I was
not bullied into changing my mind though, so my stand
still still is in place. Do you want to elaborate
on that? No, or pivot to what's next? I want
to it's your show. You drive him, right, I'm just
(24:39):
in the passenger seat. Take me where you want to go.
Let's go. Let's talk about your mock draft. Okay, first
of how many? How many were we gonna have? Well?
This so this is zero point five, zero point five,
there will probably be I did. We had a beat
writer one today just with the first round. So it's
just the first round pick, which I had to do,
which is an interesting decision. And then I'll have another
(25:00):
one before free agency zero point seventy five. Okay, one
another one before free agency, so I keep. And then
the post free agency mock draft is the first real
big one. And after that and then there's usually we
usually get into the three or four range. Okay, So
but that's like the first where you can make the
accurate seven round deal because we know the path that
(25:24):
they need to go to get to you know, the
starting roster.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
All right, this will not make you an Internet villain
because you have them in the first round taking rubin Dan.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, wouldn't that be nice? That'd be awesome. I went
off of Dane's top one hundred just to give some parameters,
because you can say whatever, but I used as an
eighty percent rule. Anything as eighty percent to where their
actual pick is. Put the universe of players out there,
and Bain was he has not hit him nine. Talk
(25:55):
about a storyline of the combine next week is how
long is arms? How freak right, and it's like you
feel like the Bengals are gonna be like trying to
push the tape measure in a little bit to try
to I don't know. I heard it was like twenty
seven inches. We've never seen that. It's not even human. Uh,
they would love it because though they would love to
(26:17):
see that be the reason he falls out. I don't
know that that's gonna happen, but it's gonna be a
really interesting topic to hear how it lands in Indie
with coaches and evaluators because his production is certainly speaks
for itself and they would love to be able to
see him be the guy. We did our mock draft
today and most of the names that people really like
(26:42):
to see, Caleb Downs, Rubin Bain, Bailey, all these kind
of are all gone. And I kind of came down
to a decision between Sunny Styles at linebacker from Ohio
State and man Sword Delaye. I'm not great. I haven't
done the pronunciation key on him yet. The cornerback smells
you who's the number one cornerback in the league. It's
(27:04):
an interesting topic because if you come down to that,
what do you do right premium number one player at
a premium position or playmaker at a non premium position,
but maybe the better overall player but less valuable and
(27:25):
what is more important to you and to me, like
we're also fresh off the rookie linebacker experience and so
no one wants to have to start doing that again.
But it's different when you're talking about a guy who
you would take ten overall. But to me it is
the tiebreaker is what happens in free agency because if
you are able to take care of that position and
(27:48):
feel like you don't need starters in what we talk about,
actually check your boxes off in free agency so you
can be best player available. You have the luxury of
taking the number one corner who gives you depth at
that a premium position, who gives you certainly that's type
of player you take to go win in January, right
because not everyone's going to make a Dax Hill and
DJ and two guys in the last year. There are
(28:10):
contracts you're in negotiations with. Doesn't force your hand on
those in case you're like thinking down the line, but
you build out a deep team and a deep roster
capable of playing and winning in December and January by
doing things like that, and it's a move the Bengals
have made a lot, and so it's intriguing. But if
you're like, are we really running to Metrius Knight and
(28:31):
Barrett carterback out there again? Yeah, you're like throw sunny
styles into the mix. So I think it's a really
interesting situation where if you are in that grouping, that
next grouping where you would want to go, and I
you know, it'll be interesting to you know, tap into
what Duke Tobin and Zach Taylor have to say in
terms of non premium positions and some of their feelings
(28:51):
on that. If maybe that's changed after last year.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
When I watch smart people break down Caleb Down's tape,
I almost get aroused easy. I mean, I'm you know,
I didn't, I wasn't graphic, but it becomes impossible for
me to stop thinking about what he would do for
the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
He would obviously have to be there.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
But when you watch and I'm sure you could do
this with all the other players you just mentioned, but
it kind of felt like there was a time last
week where a lot of the tape heads were focusing
in on Caleb Downs and watching some of that content.
Maybe I'm spoiled after watching two years of Genostone. I
don't know, but like, how do you not get excited
about the possibility of what that could mean for the
(29:37):
Bengals if he was there at ten?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
He's exactly the type of player they need. Yes he is.
He's a floor razer, he's a culture setter, He's a
super intelligent guy that's going to be a professional from
the moment he walks in. Yeah, he's the type of
guy that you can build your defense around in terms
of the instinctual way that he plays and the way
he carries himself. That's his from the day he walked
(30:01):
into the door at Ohio State. And when you throw
that just feels like stuff they need more of. And
I don't care what position he plays, especially when it's
a position that is becoming more premium by the year
in this league the way that we've seen the league trend,
so I he just seems like a no brainer if
he's there at ten. I just think it's a it's
(30:22):
a shame for the Bengals that this isn't a better
year in the top ten where he you could say, yeah,
Caleb Downs should be there because he's in a quote
unquote non premium position. It's just it's a lot harder
to see that when you know, we were going through
this exercise with the Athletic writers and it was the
person with the six overall pick was like willing to
(30:43):
trade down. The person with fifth came in next, me too,
fourth was like, I'll get out everybody. You know what
he wants. So you're gonna end up being like, I
know it's a non premium position, but I'll take Caleb down.
That feels like how this goes with somebody in the
top ten, So we don't. I'm just I understand what
you're saying.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
But oh, if the if your consolation prize is that, dude,
are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah? Right, find me an NFL team he doesn't help immediately. Yeah,
there's there's no doubt. And I it's hard to envision
a better fit uh than here, because it's just he's
he's perfectly made for what they most need.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
The Reuben Baine arm size discussion that will be had
next week. Right, So for the Bengals last year, it
was they couldn't get past Samar Stewart having all these
amazing physical traits, right, and then now it's you know,
maybe they should lean into the production on the field.
Does that Is that the same if now there's like
(31:46):
a genuine question about the physical trade, right, well, will
it be Will that be a disqualifier for them? Will
that be something that they just it's a tie breaker. Yes,
show me whatever tape you want, show me the the
level of disruption he provided playing college football. But sorry,
the arms are too small. That feels like something that
(32:07):
they would do if you buy that what they did
last year is going to be the template they use
moving forward.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Yeah, but I think you know, they would look at
their own personal examples of guys like Trey Hendrickson and
on the interior Geno Atkins who have had short arms notably,
and it's been part of the reason why they slipped
down the draft. But I mean, if there was a
team that knows that it's not that big of a deal,
it would be the Bengals. Two of their top sack
(32:35):
artists of all time had this issue. But yeah, you're right,
I mean they would want bigger, faster, longer, stronger that
all that stuff. So it's a question if if your
team Shamar Stuart, how can you be team Rubin Baine necessarily.
I do think there's a middle ground there. But yeah,
I really am curious about what the Shamar Stuart impact
(33:00):
is a little bit, if there, if there is one,
because you know, not just that and obviously the amount
of time it took Miles uh to try to start
to come along, you know, if that is leaving more
of an impact than it had in the past, and
where Ruben Bain fits in that. I still think they
look at Bain and say that's enough. The production is
(33:23):
more than enough to overlook some of the other stuff.
Though at the end of the day, did you watch
him play football?
Speaker 3 (33:29):
I mean that would be that would be like, all right,
bring out the tape measure, give me to the exact
centimeter how long his arms are? Cool, then let's let's
turn off. Let's put let's flip on this screen and
put the tape on of him at Miami, Like stop
telling me about the short arms?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yes, Like sorry, well, and especially and like we just said,
especially when you're talking about a year where you're you're
at ten and you're willing to settle for deficiencies, when
you're talking about who's even gonna be if that was
a real thing you're like, whatever the production is enough,
especially when you're comparing it to what you're settling for
if you're going in another direction.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Your fellow Beat writers that the Athletic went through a
list of for every team potential cap casualties, and some
of those names seemed inevitable, some seemed like, you know, possibilities,
some intriguing, some maybe a little bit less so. But
you've pointed out like, if you look at that list
of players who could be cut by other teams, there's
(34:25):
a lot of guys that would make sense to wonder
should the Bengals be interested and would they be a
good fit. Here, Give me one or two of those
names that jumped to the top of the list for years.
It relates to this team. Rashawan Gary from Green Bay,
who Matt Schneidman our Green Bay Riders said, I don't
see him on the team this next year. Now, Rashwan
(34:49):
has one hundred and seventy five pressures and twenty six
acts the last three years.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
He fell off a little bit at the tail end
of last season. But you know, they're paying Michael Parsons
a lot of money and they have other guys. I
think they're potentially looking to cut and can save a
lot of money by letting him go. Sean Gary Jerry
Montgomery was his coach when he had his kind of
coming out party in Green Bay, and the Bengals love
that stuff. They a feeling like they know the guy
(35:18):
and so that and the production that he's had he's
twenty eight years old, is certainly a name that if
he became available because they just let him go, or
because there was a possibility to pull some kind of
a trade for him and take on it, that would
be a name that would be certainly be pretty intriguing
and would be a fit for what you traditionally see
(35:39):
the Bengals. It kind of reminds me of like when
Orlando Brown fell into their lap a little bit, where
it's like he's a really good player. Now he might
not be at the top tip, but he's like more
than enough for what you're looking for. Yeah, and then
when you add in a guy that might have a
connection to your defensive line coach that you really like.
That was the most intriguing one that I was expecting
(36:00):
to see that stood out on the list, certainly, But
there there was, but that one that one stood out
to me, how long are his arms? I don't care.
So once they've gotten to the NFL, we no longer.
I don't care anymore. I don't care anymore. I saw,
I saw, you know, one hundred and seventy five pressures
and twenty six acts, I said their mother, I'm good.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Yeah, yes, perfect, don't don't need to worry about that.
You had them cutting BJ Hill. Now this is an
exercise where like you have to have somebody right. You
couldn't say, well, they're not going to cut anything. Yeah,
they asked most like essentially like most likely, so most
likely for that exercise. But is that a likely decision
they make? No, I don't think it's a likely decision.
I I think it's one that you could see them
(36:45):
making if they it's an is there an upgrade out there?
Because then Chris Jenkins could be your rotational backup guy
and you're using BJ Hill's money to get whatever the
other guy is.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Another like, Kenny Clark has been a name that's been
thrown around because in Dallas they've got a little bit
of a backlog with the defensive tackles they've gotten. If
you could acquire a Kenny Clark and maybe you're mixing
and you need money and you're figuring out what the
new rotation looks like. He could fall. I just his
his money and production are the type that you have
(37:19):
to look at, and he has a roster bonus coming,
so those are That's why it stands out. I wouldn't
say likely yet, but it's certainly going to be analyzed.
You'll be at the Combine next week and so Tuesday
is the day that Zach and Duke are going to talk. Duke,
I'm sure we'll spend five minutes talking about Joe Flacco,
(37:39):
So I'm excited for that. Then later on in the week, coordinators,
from a Bengals perspective, when you go to Indy, what
is the thing you're most interested in learning? Finding out
that sort of thing, Well, you know, there's been a
lot more to find out in recent years, and it
is much like the last couple of months. It feels
(38:00):
like one of the more boring trips to the Combine
from a Bengals perspective, because a lot of things feel
like they're in order. But I think you want to
you want to get a good feel for their aggressiveness
level at free agency, their approach to what those positions
that they're attacking are going to be how they view
(38:21):
maybe a few of their other players guys. I mean,
like we just talked about the bj Hills of the world,
and some of the guys they have conversations that need
to be had about and some of the stuff we
were talking about non premium positions. Maybe we'll have a
question about arm length. Oh yeah, like all I think
there's they're in an interesting spot that way, But to me,
(38:43):
it will start with what their view of free agency
is right now, because if you're getting a sense of, well,
we don't feel like we like where Barrett and Demetrius
are at, or we.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Feel like if I hear that sentence and I'm driving
a car, lookout.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I'm just saying, like, these are the type of sentences, yeah,
that you'll occasionally hear uttered like like the year that
they they said, look, I thought Bobby Hart played great,
Like I'll never forget it right. We were walking out
of there, like I think he just said he they
like Bobby Hart, and you just hear these sentences and
you're like, oh, they have a little bit different view
(39:23):
than I was anticipating. So that's I think their view
of what this defense needs, who needs to be a
part of it, Who is capable of being the starter
on opening day? Is going to be interesting to see
where they've kind of landed after there, you know, a
couple months here of evaluation.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Next Tuesday, I will be in Lubbock, Texas and congratulations, thanks,
I'll be you see plays that night against Texas Tech,
right for their second consecutive upset against a national rank team.
As I'm following everything happening in Indy on Tuesday, if
I read or hear the words we like where we
are with Barrett and Demetrius, I'm going to go to
a cattle ranch and I'm gonna instruct a cowboy to
(40:02):
take one of those branding irons.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
And like, do it in my stomach or something. Suggest
so don't tweet it is what you're saying. Give me
a heads up, okay, all right, you know, just give
me a text like, hey, why do you why don't
you log off? Why don't you not go on the
interesting thing?
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Yeah? Right, I will go to a ranch and say, cowboy,
heat it up. Paul Danner Jr. On Twitter at Paul
Danner Junior covering the Bengals forth the Athletic dot Com.
He'll have full coverage of the Bengals to the Combine
next week. And the latest episode of the Growlar podcast
features Steve Pelozzolo, who is awesome. So check that out,
(40:40):
which I will do on my ride home. It is
seven away from four o'clock. Derek Carty, who Reds fans
have shamed, is gonna join us in ten minutes on
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center. Around forty percent
of cancers are preventable. Lifestyle changes and screenings can make
a difference. Called five one three five eighty five UCCC.
A disabled vehicle has now been cleared out inbound on
Columbia Parkway that was approaching Kemper Lane northbound seventy five.
Accident on the off ramp to State Route one twenty
(41:22):
two in Middletown and also northbound seventy five. There's slow
traffic between Mitchell and Paddock ten minute delay on that
ezelic with traffic.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
This report is sponsored by cap
Mo Egger News
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