March 19, 2024 • 41 mins
Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic joined us to talk about the Bengals' new right tackle, the team's draft plans, Joe Mixon's new deal with Houston, Dax Hill's conundrum in Cincinnati, and his level of annoyance versus his level of amusement with Justin Jefferson rumors.
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(00:01):
That's the end of the radio station. Get afternoon, five minutes after three
o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank you so much for joining us.
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out. Come on out and seeus. We're here until six o'clock tonight.
Paul Daanner Junior is here. What'sup? Fresh off the Trent Brown
media availability. Yeah, big time, big huge, Yeah, I mean
what, there's a lot going on. He is literally huge. Yeah,
there's there's no question. I thinkI sort of tweeted by this last night,
(01:49):
but I love the idea of therebeing an NFL intramural basketball league and
they just put Brown's the Brown Brothers. We'd have to end up calling them.
Yeah, down there in the middleand just know that no one's no
one's gonna get a layup, andthey have to have the biggest, most
like tackles in the history of theNFL to just double down on these massive
(02:12):
mountains that people have to run around. It's not hard to figure out their
strategy. I think we get it. We get your type. Okay,
I think we've figured it out.Sure. Yeah. Do they lead the
league in players with the last nameof Brown. They're up there, They're
you know, certainly moving in theright direction. Yeah. I mean,
maybe I'm gonna have to go doa search for draft prospects with the last
(02:35):
name Brown and see if that's alsoa part of their strategy. Here to
add on to that. All right, So Trent Brown has been signed to
play right tackle. Correct, he'llbe the starting right tackle in week one,
we guess, probably. Will hebe the starting right tackle in week
ten? Less certain? I think. So. Here's a couple of there's
a here's why this is great andwhy he is a particularly snug fit for
(03:00):
their situation. One, he lovesbeing mister versatility. He loves that I
can play left, I can playright. He just said, you know,
I feel like I'm the best inthe league at protecting one on one
on either side, and views thatas sort of his superpower. Well,
guess what Orlando Brown can do thesame thing. Trent Brown can do that.
And if you draft a guy,and a lot of these tackles that
(03:23):
you would draft could be year one, maybe even play guard type guys could
beat him out at right tackle andinjury happens to anybody these two huge guys,
injuries are a possibility. Trent Brown'shad injuries, you now have so
much versatility to withstand injury. Andthis is an under this scenario that you're
still taking a tackle at eighteen towithstand injury, to move somebody inside,
(03:47):
to move left to right, andto be able to handle all of that
for a team that's trying to winnow, to a team that thinks often
about winning in January that has lostin January and February because of not being
able to withstand injuries on the offensiveline, a guy like this with that
type of versatility is particularly enticing fortheir current situation where they're still vision a
(04:14):
win now, but still needing tobuild that vision of protecting Burrow for the
long haul. Yeah, I thinkhe fits the profile, not just from
a size perspective of the sort ofplayer we talked about the Bengals getting in
the absence of Jonah Williams coming back. Is he on the upper range of
those possibilities. Yeah, here's thething. So when you are in since
(04:35):
really you know, Joe Burrow hasreally got here. And we talked to
Dan Pitcher about that and the samethings that Brian Callahan said before him,
that Frank Pollack has said before him. Their offense is what it is.
It is we are here to letJoe Burrow throw and process because he doesn't
better than anybody in the world,and let the receivers win. And he
(04:56):
likes to spread it out. Soyou want. Number one thing you can
do is you better be able topass pro and you know what, you
better be able to do it oneon one a lot because they're gonna go
spread a lot. They're gonna bean empty a lot. That's gonna be
a part of it. Well,last year, hardly anybody was one on
one on the outside more than TrentBrown, and he was second league next
(05:16):
gen stats on pressure percentage out.He can do it. He can do
it on the right side, hecan do it on the left side.
It allows you to play to thosestrengths the rest of it figured out as
you go. The run game figuredout as you go. All if Burrow
can sit back there and feel confidentand feel protected in the pocket and when
he's in spread, well guess whatyour offense is gonna have very little problem
(05:39):
succeeding in that. And that's kindof where they start everything. And when
you're not having at this point foragency, the people available or even free
agency at all, Really the peopleavailable at that position are not gonna check
every box. They're not stars.They're not stars. They are what deficiencies
can we tolerate? Well, ifthere's a big, bold check through the
(06:01):
box that says pass pro one onone in an ad versatility left or right,
the rest of it can kind offigure itself out. And I think
that's another great thing about Trump Brown. This would not preclude them from taking
the right tackle. You wrote aboutthe clarity of the draft strategy. Given
the way the first week or soa free agency played out, this would
not preclude them from taking a righttackle at eighteen. The smart money would
(06:26):
still be if you had to picka position, that'd being the one they
address at eighteen. It almost reemphasizes it, man, you know,
because It is the perfect It isthe perfect combination for what they want to
be now and in the long term. But and if keeping Burrow protected and
investing in your offensive line is alwaysnumber one with this guy, then yes,
(06:48):
you're always doing that. You werenot pigeonholed m But look, the
strength of the draft is the strengthof the draft. I mean, they're
gonna have somebody that's pretty darn goodsitting there that could be their right tackle
of the future at eighteen. Almostcertainly you don't have to do that because
you're right, but Trent Brown's hadinjury. This is I mean to think
(07:11):
that he's definitely gonna play in throughthe playoffs every week. That's you know,
you're you're probably at a coin flipperless on that one. So they
don't have a swing tackle that anybodycould trust. So I still think you're
looking there. Again, you don'thave to, but I just think this
is maybe the the ideal scenario ofthe of the bridge tackle first round pick
(07:38):
plan. So it's not apples toapples. But last year, for seven
weeks we talk about tight end andthere's a thousand tight ends. Boy with
a deep class of tight ends,Bengals didn't take one. Now, I
find it implausible to think the Bengalsaren't gonna draft a right tackle. But
I'm also I'm I'm a little skittichon focusing specifically on tackle at eighteen because
(08:03):
I maybe this is my fault.I did that at tight end last year
with the thirty fifth overall pick.Yeah, but I don't think it was
ever a thought that they were definitelygonna take tight end at thirty. I
thought at some point they thought wasat some point they would and it didn't
fall their way. It's hard tosee scenarios where it doesn't fall their way
just because there's so many guys attheir position and it is early. I
(08:24):
think you can better predict here.So I just we just got done doing
our first post free agency beat writermock draft, which is my favorite one
that we do every year because weall, as you know, across the
league now have clarity on our teamsand the our writers are so plugged into
what everything's going to do. AndI was actually stunned at the choice I
(08:45):
had to make. It was TelisSuaga from Oregon State was available, and
so was Byron Murphy, the defensivetackle from Texas I didn't think there was
a person I would take above ByronMurphy, including everything I just said about
tackle, because he could be areal dude. He could be a the
real three technique that you're dying tohave and they're so hard to find anywhere
else. And I passed because Ifelt like Fuaga is so perfect for what
(09:11):
they would want to be and combiningthat his ability to play garter tackle with
Trent Brown's ability to play left orright and all of that upfront makes so
much sense. He might be theonly one of those tackles that could fall
that I would do that for.But point being like, there's a lot
that's available to you there that youcan that certainly could be there. But
(09:35):
I just think that combination is greatin the area that you want to be
great. If right tackle is sodeep and you're drafting in the middle of
round one, why not trade downif you could still get one later on
in round one. Is that apossibility. Yes, absolutely, it's a
possibility. I don't think that's outof the question. I think being later
in the round, there's still anumber of those guys that would be more
(09:58):
projection that would be available. Geiitonmimes some of the other big guys that
you have to think more, butmaybe you like some of them in particular.
Yeah, and adding picks would nothurt. They have ten already,
but there's a lot of room formovement on day two to potentially pinpoint whether
it's the receiver that you want oryou know whatever, you're trying to figure
(10:20):
out. The defensive tackle for all, that situation would be, uh,
you can't. I don't think that'sout of the question at all. By
the way, Paul covers the Bengalsfor the Athletics Oh yeah, the Athletic
dot Com. I can read hiswork on what the Bengals have done so
far in free agency. I wantto talk about it. I got to
mention in one of your pieces aboutdox Hill that was nice. Yeah,
you did. I try. Itold you I try to mention you as
(10:41):
much as possible. And it hadbeen a while and I felt like,
oh, this is a good opportunityto make sure you know that this is
still something that I like to Eastereight and since last Monday, how many
podcasts have you done well since lastMonday. Let's see, we did five
last week and we just did theone and then one tomorrow with Okay,
we're back kind of normal, backat a normal scout with the growler.
Yeah, growler, So J andI tomorrow morning we'll have all the reaction
(11:05):
to Trent, Paul and I yesterday. Ye. Mark shallafu sort of a
lighter side of the Bengals who daylightyes on Fridays yep, which is terrific.
And so you have it covered fromwith Jay, you have, like
you know, fellow beat reporter peerwith Mark funny. I don't know what
I'm supposed to bring to the table, but I'm honored to be asked.
Nonetheless, you haven't. You havemany opinions. I do. We're both
(11:26):
bald and that's it. We checkedthose boxes. I mean, look,
you know how much I enjoy it, so so you don't have to tell
me twice. It's sixteen minutes afterthree o'clock. We're at Turfway Park,
Racing and Gaming, Churchhills, Bourbonand Brew the Bar right here in the
middle of this awesome facility. Greatplace to watch the NCAA tournament, great
place this weekend, one of thebest parties on the sports calendar, one
(11:50):
of North of Kentucky's best parties theJeff Ruby Stakes. It's coming up on
Saturday. Tickets on sale now atticketmaster dot com. We're gonna give away
some tickets a little bit later onif you know your March Madness schools and
I could not come up with agoofier way to put that, so that's
what we'll do. We'll have thatfor you in the five o'clock hour.
(12:11):
It's seventeen after three o'clock. I'mMoeger. He's Paul Danner Junior. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. After three ESPN fifteen thirty Moeggar broadcasting
this afternoon from Turbway Park Racing andGaming in Northern Kentucky. Right off I
seventy five, a great place towatch college basketball and bet on college basketball
(12:35):
all weekend long. Paul Danner Juniorfrom The Athletic and the Growler podcast is
here. You could follow Paul onsocial media at Paul Danner Junior Bengals.
If you missed it, today theymake it official. Trent Brown signs a
free agent contract right tackle or tackleI guess one year deal with Cincinnati and
so the next step in the longand winding road to the draft and to
(12:58):
the season here in free agency tookplace today. Whatever the hell that happens,
Paul Danny, We're getting food putin front of this. So I
was some onion rings wings like that. It's a good start. That's pretty
good. Do we know what thesauce is on those wings? Mo or
are you a little nervous spot?I'm gonna guess they're more mild than what
I had yesterday. Okay, that'sgood, made fined. You might want
to check on that. I'm goingto guess. But uh, I'm a
(13:20):
big onion rings guy, so I'mpretty excited. Yeah. Uh. On
the offensive line, yeah, youknow you talk about, well you could
you could draft a guy to playtackle long term, but maybe you know
he could play guard? Is howsafe is Cordell Wolson spot? Because I
felt like there was a time duringthe season where we started to talk about,
(13:41):
you know what, maybe you atleast should bring in some competition,
and then I felt like toward theend of the season he played fine.
And then I listened to what DukeTobin had to say about him at the
at the combine, and I'm going, Okay, well, Cordell is safe.
I'm still not sure he should be, Like, could could you see
him being in a competition with aguy they dan to be the left guard?
No, I don't think so.Yeah, No, I think they.
(14:03):
I think they feel pretty confident aboutCordell and his development right now and
who he should be this year.Now, if the year goes on and
you get to a point where he'sregressed or playing more like the guy from
the early part of the year andnot the second part of the year,
and you have somebody with position flexthat could step in, well that's a
different conversation. But I think rightnow, I think there's a lot of
(14:26):
confidence in Cordell that they'll be fineand and it should be all good there.
Yeah, no, DJ reader,Yeah, were you surprised that things
went down the way? No?They did, I mean like some were.
No, I don't know. Idon't know that I was surprised.
I feel like we tried to spellthis out the entire time, age position
(14:54):
in injury history. This is whythat injury was so brutal for him.
For the was I think they allhad eyes that, you know, what
they could invest in maybe another yearor two or DJ and the league was
going to be really interested in investinganother year or two. The injury just
it really just took so much offthe table there, and I think they
(15:16):
felt like they had to be,you know, younger or more confident in
that position. I think they wouldhave liked to have seen it work out.
I think they were open to itworking out, but I don't think
it got particularly close to where Detroitwent with DJ And I'm okay with this.
I think it's hard to think thison top of everything else. I
(15:41):
mean, there's a lot of familiarity. I mean, I think I had
the numbers on the amount of snapsthat went out the door between those five
guys, I mean the last sincetwenty twenty. It's like over fourteen thousand
snaps between the five assuming Tyler Boydgoes and that's just wild and a playoff
starts on all of them captains firstpick and Zach Taylor's tenure, Like,
(16:03):
yeah, I mean these are thisisn't just watching cj usamag ot the This
is this was core culture, foundationalpieces, so Reader being the biggest of
those and literally and figuratively, andso for that to happen, yeah,
I think it was tough to see. But again, it just philosophy is
(16:26):
going to trump sentiment. Yeah,okay, they should. They're gonna be
young, yeah they are. Theywant to be healthy. They look back
at the previous few years and rightfullysay, look, so much of our
our usage the snaps have gone toplayers who are younger, who are in
(16:48):
their twenties. They're not gonna investin player in their thirties because the chances
of those players breaking down and staininginjury and having the level of play decrease
is just so much higher. Sothey're gonna make safer bets and churn it.
Okay, And they've done that atevery single spot, and nothing challenged
that more than DJ Reader. Everyoneeveryone loved, everyone loved, but at
(17:12):
a certain point. He had majorinjuries in three of us four years,
correct, you know, And andhe's now thirty and in that position as
well, does not lend itself toage on top of everything. I would
have made the same decision. Ialso, however, I think I would.
I think I would have too,But as an outside observer, had
(17:33):
I found out they're bringing back DJReader, I wouldn't have been angry.
No, but at what at whatcosts? Right? You know? However,
if I knew that that was thedirection I was gonna go. I
would have been more aggressive for arun stopping defensive tackle earlier in free agency.
I would not have let those guysgo. I would not have said
(17:56):
none of these There's just no wayof all. I mean, there there
were a bunch of guys that thinkwhat you want to think about PFF grades
or whatever. There were a bunchof them that were up there and run
defense grades. A bunch that signedfor less than eight million dollars per year
three, four or five whatever.You couldn't have over extended yourself a little
(18:17):
bit there, the same way youended up doing for Sheldon Rankins, because
it's priority and you knew you weregonna let DJ Reader go. It's the
biggest problem I had with how lastweek unfolded, not with letting Read go.
It's with not covering yourself a littlebetter on the front end, knowing
you were probably gonna let DJ Readergo. And now now this team that
(18:37):
got steamrolled in the division on theground is gonna be grasping at straws trying
to put together answers at the mostimportant part of stopping that. You're gonna
have folks who say I get allthat, but look, I'm concerned about
stopping the pass, yes, right, and so if I'm better rushing the
pass or and on the back end, they have to be a week at
(19:02):
accept being bad against the run.That sounds great in March until Derrick Henry
is running you over and Nick Chubbis running you know. And did you
watch last year's zero to five divisionalstart. I mean that's what it was.
They got run over and left everybodyin third and two over and over
and over again, or just ranthem down the field. And you know
(19:22):
that's not saying that DJ Reader returningwas gonna DJ was there for a lot
of it last year. It wasn't. There were a lot of other problems.
It's not on the defensive tackling.And I thought Sheldon Rankins was really
interesting talking about that yesterday, abouthis ability to look, no one's calling
him DJ Reader, but to assertsome of what DJ does to be a
(19:45):
good run defender in there and notbe the pass rushing third down three technique,
him pointing out, look, I'vebeen on the field first and second
down with every team that I've beenwith. They have wanted me out there.
You can say whatever you want aboutwho I am. There was a
time where people thought, oh,I'm only a run guy, and I
thought all of that was really interestingin his interest and sort of confidence in
(20:07):
being able to take on some ofthat role that can help. He's not
built to do that, though,and you don't want to be putting extra
snaps onto him because he has theage factor that they kind of had to
swallow a little bit because the marketwas so rotten at defensive tackle, so
that you don't want to be puttingmore there. You just you just would
love to have one more really solidrun stopper guy as part of that rotation
(20:33):
today because you don't want to becounting on a rookie to come in and
do that. And there's not reallyreal a bunch of rookies that can come
in and do that with any confidence, and so it just it puts you
in a bit of a spot there, and they've got to kind of figure
out what the creative solution is tothat going forward. All Right. I
have a lot of other stuff toask you about, including the Dak Sill
situation because he's intriguing and some stuffthat went down since you and I last
(20:56):
talked. On Tuesday, both formerBangal and current Bengals and some stuff that
happened in the AFC North as well. Paul Danner Juniors. Here, we're
at the Bourbon Churchill's Bourbon and BrewBar inside Turfway Park, racing and gaming.
It's twenty eight away from four o'clockon ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station
Cincy three sixty with Tony Pike.Do we want to move onct to keep
(21:21):
going? And Boston Elmore? Ithink you che continent? Let me keep
going then Sincy three sixty Tomorrow attwelve noons on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati's esp
see Chevro Light home of lifetime Howarddrained for protection and guarantee credit approval from
their family to yours for life atkelseyschev dot com. Bengals made it official.
(21:44):
Free agent tackle Trent Brown signs aone year contract, getting set for
his tenth NFL season and obviously hisfirst in Cincinnati. Hunter Gain gets the
ball this afternoon. Reds and AngelsCincinnati the road team today for ten first
pitch n It starts tonight in Athensto take on Georgia. Tip off at
seven o'clock on fifty five KRC.Winner of that game will take on either
(22:06):
Wake Forest or Appalasian State. Thosetwo schools play tomorrow, also tonight in
the nit Ohio State squares off againstCornell. First four underway in dayton tonight
Wagner and Howard a pair of sixteen's, and then Colorado State and Virginia a
pair of ten seeds. Both ofthose games can be heard live on Fox
Sports thirteen sixty Hockey tonight, theBlue Jacket Skate against the Detroit Red Wings,
(22:30):
Paul Danner juniors here on the Bengalsand Trent Brown and so much more
covering the Bengals for the Athletic dotCom and the podcast The Growler, as
we say, available where you getyour podcasts. And this week my microphone
was on. Yeah, congratulations onthat one. We made that work.
You know, you have all thesepodcasting people you get on the radio guy,
and I'm the guy whose microphone's noton. It's okay, It's not
(22:52):
okay. You project you projected thepoint that I was even angry with myself.
No, well, don't be,don't be. I mean, I
didn't lose sleep, but I wasempraily. But that doesn't make you wonder,
like, why was I listening tomyself? Yeah? Well that that
was actually my I didn't want tobring that up. I was a little
concerdent you go back and re listento you, to your segments to make
(23:12):
I thought in real time, myperformance on your podcast was so bad.
But I'm honest to god, I'mlike, really, I did the same
yesterday. Like I'm I'm over.I'm over two in the new venture.
So is there something about the newsetup that's making you uncomfortable? I'm getting
used to Mondays. This is partof the this is the Monday issue.
(23:34):
Okay, maybe we should early recordit, like Friday afternoon at five.
That'd be fun. I feel likeI'd get a better interesting version. You
would get an interesting version. Paul'shere, Uh that we're at turf Way
Park, racing and gaming via Churchill'sBruise and bar Bourbon and bar Bourbon and
brew bar. Easy for me tosay. I'm surprised our good friend Richard
(23:55):
Skinner isn't just sitting here right now. This seems like where he would be.
I sort of thought like he'd havehis laptop here. Yeah, do
we just come and he'd be workingor working or this is kind of like
what his basement looks like. Ifeel like just geping up on the tracks,
got the got the crawl, goinga million TVs. Food. I
mean you think he has a bettingkiosk in his basement, would you?
(24:17):
I wouldn't say no. I wouldimagine that's a likely. It just has
a phone that is just strictly forbetting and it's set up in kiosk style.
Holder. Yeah, yeah, peoplewalking? Is that for an emergency
well, for an emergency wager?You and I, uh last week talked
about the fact the Bengals were gonnatrade Joe Mixon and we thought, well,
(24:38):
that's that's kind of cool. TheBengals are going to get something in
return. And then I think,if I'm not mistaken, you leave the
studio and we we do our littlesports show and Tarren says to me,
Joe Mixon just got a contract extensionand thirteen mil from the Texans, and
I'm like, you know, Tarren, this isn't the time the joke around.
Yeah, like, and he's like, where we're here to have fun,
(25:00):
but I'm trying to do or showhere and no, Mo, actually
that that's a thing that happened.Yeah, were you as I was.
I'm not surprised that they leaned intohim for a year beyond twenty twenty four.
I guess I'm really surprised that themoney, even though the running back
market and free agency kind of blewup in maybe unexpected ways. Yeah,
(25:22):
absolutely, I was floored. Andit's not necessarily a not necessarily a Joe
Mixon thing. Any aging running backthat gets significant guaranteed money for a team
that he's never played a down for, you can think it's gonna be a
good fit. You can think everythingshould work out all right. You don't
(25:45):
know that anytime people get extensions beforethey play it down for somebody and don't
really even you don't even know whothe person is, totally yeavy, And
then you throw in what to meis what this is mostly about, which
is just why are people paying agentrunning backs like ever? We've seen this
show so many times that you willoccasionally get someone that hits, but more
(26:06):
often than not, it's Dalvin Cook, it's Melvin Gordon, it's I don't
name any of these guys. There'sbeen so many that just it's just not
the same. You know what thisdoes and you know, how many of
these young rookies come into the leagueand have no problem being successful And and
so that's the stunning part to me, not necessarily that he was let go
(26:30):
or that he was traded for aconditional seventh or whatever, that that there
was an investment like that into andan aging running back with the kind of
where that has been put on Joeis surprising when the ultimate win win win,
like the Texans got what they clearlywanted. Joe got way more money
than he ever thought he was gonnaget in keeping his original contract and getting
(26:52):
this extra guaranteed, and the Bengalswere able to find something that fits them
a little bit better in terms ofMoss and Brown and as a combo,
and everyone's happy. But yeah,I'm still surprised at how as a child
of divorce parents, as somebody who'sbeen through a divorce, as and this
is the greatest divorce of all time. Yeah, I mean, legitimately,
(27:14):
everybody got out of it what theywanted. Everybody feels like they're better off
for what happened. Yeah, andwho knows, maybe that will change.
Everybody feels better off at the youknow, the remarriage and like and then
a couple of years into that andthings, maybe that wasn't such a good
idea. Maybe maybe the Bengals madethe wrong decision, Maybe the Texans made
there. Maybe Joe who knows,it could be like my dad's second marriage.
(27:37):
But yeah, you know, maybethings weren't all that bad. I
don't want to delve into you know, I don't don't. I don't really
either. Uh. Dax Hill isthe most interesting Bengal because he's a a
guy who a year ago is theheir apparent to a player who was very
popular and very good and and nowI don't know what position he's gonna play.
(27:57):
And I think you can make thecase for trading. Yes, yeah,
that's not a question. It's justyes to all three. No,
No, I mean yes it is. And he's also someone that they still
really like and believe in. Idon't believe in him that much. Well,
not safety, that's clear, right. I mean, we we got
(28:18):
the answer there. If you werelooking for that answer, we got it.
So we know that with Bell andStone and Battle and an ty Snanderson,
that room feels cemented right now.And there's stuff you can do,
obviously, But again, the onething that was said was they want Dax
Hill to be good at one thing. They want him to find what his
one thing is and and be goodat it. The most obvious move that
(28:42):
they could make right now would befor him to be Mike Hilton's backup.
And for a guy who has value, he is insanely athletic. He is
a talented guy who two years agowas a first round pick for a reason,
he was consensus first round. Okay, for that that to be in
year three, this is supposed tobe your biggest value you get on any
(29:06):
player, is your first round pickin year three for him to be he
could be Mike Hilton's backup potentially ortrying to compete for something else that's not
where you want it to be.But also you cut your losses a little
bit and say, well, itdoesn't matter what he was supposed to be.
Let's figure out getting the most outof who he we know he is
right now, and maybe that's thespot. It just feels like there's one
(29:30):
more step here. Yeah, itfeels like there's one more thing because you
know, you think, I thinkyou joked about how can Dax Hill play
defensive tackle? Mm? Well no, but he could probably fetch one.
But see, that's why you're goodat what you do, because I'm I'm
just a clown, Like I'm justlaying in bed late at night, and
(29:51):
I thought, well, I'll weighinto the Dack skill thing and report that
he's moving to defensive tackle when everybodyhas a little laugh, and it's fine,
yeah, pat me on the headand go okay, let the adults
talk about football now. But thenyou take my little joke and turn it
into a point, which is,you know, for a position of need,
could you flip Dax Hill for adefensive tackle? And I've got to
(30:11):
think at some point the answer couldbe yes, you could. Now it
doesn't happen often, right, Imean I went back and looked through just
the history of guys playing for twoteams first round picks in their first three
years trade it. It does nothappen often. And there's a reason for
that because there's still so much beliefin that that guy can become who you
put that chip on. And Ithink that still exists with the Bengals,
(30:33):
and the Bengals lack of willingness tomove off picks, lack of willingness to
make trades, in general, bothof those would say this is a very
minor thing. But you know,at a certain point we talked a lot
about, hey, win now andt Higgins is here for one year on
the tag and this team can winit, and you're kind of going for
it a little bit. If that'sthe case, You've got two years of
(30:56):
Dax Hill. Yeah, so couldit get you two year years of another
impact player at a different position thatbetter fits you? You know? Maybe
I think it's I just think it'ssomething that at the very least a conversation
has had when you weigh the currentnew setup of what the roster is,
when you got Von Bell, whenyou still have Mike Hilton, when you
(31:18):
have DJ Turner, when you havea lot in the ability to even add
another corner in the draft, thatcould be a verse. Like, there's
just a lot of different things whereyou could end up being better on the
whole by moving. But I don'tthink that's something that would happen. I
just think it's something that you've gotto be creative in what you're doing right
now because you've got this kind oflost piece. Yeah, you know,
(31:41):
and inevitably, here's what will happenis somebody will get hurt in week three
or four somewhere, whether it beoutside corner, whether it be Mike Hilton,
whether it be one of the twoof the safetyes, and you need
that guy. And we talked aboutthis last year. They built that roster
to win in January. They builtit with depth on defense. It didn't
(32:04):
turn out as they hoped, butthe way they were building it was correct.
There was tons of backup options thatwith high draft picks that you could
believe in, could step in.And maybe that's just what dex Hill is
and he ends up playing a hugerole for you and grows into something like
you've got to have that if youwant to be at play in January team,
you got to have it. Andespecially in the secondary where people are
(32:27):
grasping at absolute straws. Usually atthe end of the year you want to
have backup plans, so that ismore likely where they're sitting. But man,
it just feels like you would lovethat. You just feel like it
should there should be a bigger rolefor what he could potentially provide. I
have like five more topics for you. Yeah, and we only have twelve
(32:47):
minutes, so let's get the breakin and then we'll come back and we'll
go like lightning round. Okay,yeah, I can do It's not gonna
be even I mean, I don'tknow. It's gonna be like eight eight.
All right, we'll see how manyhow many of you? How many
think we can go one, two, three, five, five and eight
minutes? Five and eight minutes?So I think we can do it?
(33:07):
Yeah, I can. I knewyou could even double that if you really
wanted me to go fast, reallyright, we'll find out when we come
back. It's eleven away from fouro'clock. We're at Turfway Park racing and
gaming on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati SportsStation. Hey Cincinnati, did you know?
And there's still a game coming up. No Red has gotten injured today,
which is Nice's been a lot ofa whole lot a lot of injuries.
(33:29):
We always talk about that. Theworst thing is the soreness in spring
training. Yep, And there's alot of soreness. Two guys in the
last two days shoulder soreness. Ah, you don't you just you don't want
that in March, man, don'twant that in March. Are are you
ready? Oh? Yeah, I'mready. It could a depressed market for
Tyler Boyd Meani comes back to Cincinnati. I don't think so. I mean,
I just think everybody is kind ofset their path forward there. Their
(33:53):
ride receiver room is perfectly structured withsix players and an opening it slot receiver.
Like for a draft pick, nobodywants Tyler Boyd. I don't.
I guess it's always possible, butyou don't want to bring Tyler Boyd back
when he's going to be a backuppotentially. I mean, you're clearing the
deck for two young guys to adda little bit more speed at thought receiver.
(34:15):
I think everyone on all sides iscomfortable with that. Is darny chance.
Trent Irwin, now that he's backin the fold, enjoys an increased
role. I think he enjoys thesame role, which is usually at some
point in the season they say,man, we got to lean on Trent.
It's just you got the guy whoruns the routes the way that Joe
Burrow likes him run and is reliablemakes plays. There will be a point
(34:37):
in this season where Trent Irwin willhave a two to three game run where
you're like, man, so gladhe's here and that's why he's still on
the run. He's like the perfectX sixth guy. He's the perfect sixth
guy because he could do that inthe slot, he can do it on
the outside. He's done it before. He's already got the chemistry. You're
good. I feel like the KeemDavis Gather contract surprise some people. I'm
(34:57):
not sure why should it have.It's a little more than you probably thought.
But I also think that he wasmore valued around the league than people
give credit for. He it's justthe circumstances that he hasn't really played more.
I think everybody can see that heobviously has some skill and and could
be a starter potentially in this league, and is a great special teamer.
There's value in that. The capis two hundred and fifty five million dollars.
(35:22):
Three is not a lot. IfI'm a Pittsburgh Steelers fan, should
I be excited about our new quarterbackroom? You should not? I mean,
how much is Denver paying for Russnot to be there right now?
The guy it's like, and howoften did anyone who you put a microphone
in front of in Seattle say he'sgot We got to get this guy out
(35:44):
of here. Dumped all over him, and maybe Mike Tomlin, I mean,
you look, Mike Tomlin can canmake things happen. He can make
he can take some crazy personalities andturn him into wins and maybe he can
do that with Russ here, andmaybe it ends up being Justin Fields,
but I would not be super excited. Although it's probably better than what they
have. Steelers fans are not gonnalike Russell Willson. He is not a
(36:06):
fit for the city of Pittsburgh,That's correct. You know, last week
a lot of folks were having agood time with this Justin Jefferson thing,
including us. They they sent meover to the Kenwood Town Center, what
Yeah, to see if I couldfind them. I went on Tony and
Austin show from the Kenwood Town Center, and I didn't find Justin Jefferson.
(36:28):
I found like a nine month oldgetting her ears pierced, and I was
going to try to rescue her fromlike the dad looked like you could hang
a shower curtain from his nose.So I really felt bad, But I
didn't see Justin Jefferson. When whenthere's fervor for something like that, how
does this impact something like somebody likeyou uh, you, because I feel
(36:52):
bad for point at a certain pointyou you do want to like triple check
like I'm not missing something here,right, And once you kind of get
feel comfordent about that, then wecan commence making fun of it. Yeah.
Actually, and I'm gonna use yourmassive audience here to help. I
am in search of lix bound fiftynine, who did the Facebook post claiming
(37:16):
like through Kroger and like it wasa whole thing that was circulating. That's
kind of where it's okay, that'sbecause that's what everyone was sending to everyone
and reaching it. It looked verymade up in fake uh. And so
I'm really curious if anybody knows whothat person is. I'd love to talk
to them about what it's like tocreate a rumor out of thin air.
(37:37):
There there was someone named Olivia involved, correct and I there's Olivia Ray at
Channel five. And so when Isaw Olivia, I went, Wow,
what a scoop. Olivia Ray gotyou in the middle of this. And
then so I go to her socialmedia and she's like having coffee with her
husband. Yes, so that's notwhere it originated. I don't think.
(37:58):
Maybe that's where justin Jefferson was atthat coffee shop, you know, having
a nice coffee and walked right intoit. And so then we got to
the point where finally somebody asked me, like, where did this start?
And I said, I don't know, but you know, just a goofball.
Like me, about four or fivetimes last week somebody would say,
like my next door neighbor's like,is it gonna happen? Yeah, And
I'm like, uh what, yeah, with Justin Jefferson. So if a
(38:22):
weirdo like me is getting these questions, I can't imagine real journalists like yourself
how often you get them? AndI can have fun with it. I
could go to the Kimwood Town Center. You're trying to report hard news.
Yeah, it's hard because that's whateverybody wanted to talk about, and that
would be a significant story. Ohyeah, there's no doubt about it.
I just I'm trying to figure outthe last time that someone who has worked
(38:45):
their whole lives for one contract toset them and everyone they know it for
the rest of their lives. Who'slike, you know what, I'll take
less a lot less, And Ithink and my buddy will too. And
then my other buddy we're all reallytight. We all have decided, right,
we don't want all the money thatwe're actually worth. We would take
less just so that we can playtogether. For Look, a year ago,
at this time, people were convincingthemselves like Joe Burrow would play for
(39:08):
like the league minimum. So oh, he's he's not that kind of guy.
And I would say competitive, Well, he's very so, because you
know how NFL athletes compete. Who'sthe highest paid? Okay, that's that's
what it is, all right.You could read Paul's work Colaviny Breaking justin
Jefferson News not yet at the Athleticdot Com l i X bound fifty nine.
(39:29):
If you're out there, I'm lookingfor you. Contact. That would
be a good podcast guest. I'dbe a great guest. I'm here for
it, all right. I guessbig good radio show guests too. We'll
talk to you in two weeks.Yeah, looking forward to it, all
right. Paul Danner, Junior atthe Athletic dot Com. Listen to the
Growler podcast. It's four o'clock.We're at Turfway Park, racing and gaming
on ESPN fifteen thirty Sports. I'mChristine Leazy, two of the NBA's top
(39:54):
teams face off tonight when the defendingchampion Nuggets visit the Timberwolves. Each team
has what a eleven of its lastthirteen games, and they're tied for second
in the West, is a halfgame back of Oklahoma City. Of course,
the stars are key, but soare the role players for both teams.
Espn NBA analysts Tim Legler, JaneMcDaniels and his contributions offensively, the
(40:14):
impact that he has defensively, andI look at nas Reed, who has
been more than adequate, you know, filling in for an injured Carl Anthony
Towns. He's been spectacular times.And then for Denver Michael Porter Junior,
who may be playing some of thebest basketball of his career since the All
Star Break. And then Aaron Gordon, which who I think every night the
Nuggets look spectacular. Aaron Gordon hashis imprint all over that Cavaliers shooting guard
(40:37):
Donovan Mitchell out at least one weekafter undergoing a procedure to repair a nasal
fracture. Clenson's accompanying Florida State inthe legal fight against the acc Clenson filed
a lawsuit against the conference over itsmedia rights deal tigers like FSU, seeking
to nullify the one hundred and fortymillion dollar penalty. The ACC says a
widow if the school left the conference. How you it's the resident Super Bowl
(41:00):
Champ, Chris Kennedy coming on Wednesday. With all the shuffling we've seen at
quarterback, I'll tell you which teamsare headed for QB competitions. It's unsportsman
like six am Eastern right here onthe ESPN Radio, ESPN two at ESPNU
That's the end of the radio station. Get afternoon, five minutes after three
o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank you so much for joining us.
We are broadcasting. I am pumpedto be here because I love this
place. Turfway Park, racing andgaming. We're specifically in Churchill's Bourbon and
Brew, the bar area, therestaurant. This place is awesome. It
(00:21):
is going to be awesome for whathappens starting tonight. The NCAA tournament begins
this evening. Obviously, it reallygets underway in Earnest on Thursday. And
here's the cool thing about this place. This is the first NCAA tournament that
you could legally make wagers in Kentucky. And well, they've got betting Kiosk,
they've got a sportsbook, We've gotan awesome place to watch all the
(00:44):
games. We got a great placeto eat and hang out. The Jeff
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This is an incredible facility. It'san awesome place. It's a great restaurant,
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(01:06):
if you want, and if you'relooking for a place to watch games,
whether they beat or night. Then starts this evening Xavier plays, Ohio
State plays or the first four isunderway in Dayton and obviously tip off a
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through Sunday. You cannot do betterthan this spot, and you could wager
on all the games and you're goodto go. Turf Way Park Racing and
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Gaming. We are thrilled to behere and we thank them for having us
out. Come on out and seeus. We're here until six o'clock tonight.
Paul Daanner Junior is here. What'sup? Fresh off the Trent Brown
media availability. Yeah, big time, big huge, Yeah, I mean
what, there's a lot going on. He is literally huge. Yeah,
there's there's no question. I thinkI sort of tweeted by this last night,
(01:49):
but I love the idea of therebeing an NFL intramural basketball league and
they just put Brown's the Brown Brothers. We'd have to end up calling them.
Yeah, down there in the middleand just know that no one's no
one's gonna get a layup, andthey have to have the biggest, most
like tackles in the history of theNFL to just double down on these massive
(02:12):
mountains that people have to run around. It's not hard to figure out their
strategy. I think we get it. We get your type. Okay,
I think we've figured it out.Sure. Yeah. Do they lead the
league in players with the last nameof Brown. They're up there, They're
you know, certainly moving in theright direction. Yeah. I mean,
maybe I'm gonna have to go doa search for draft prospects with the last
(02:35):
name Brown and see if that's alsoa part of their strategy. Here to
add on to that. All right, So Trent Brown has been signed to
play right tackle. Correct, he'llbe the starting right tackle in week one,
we guess, probably. Will hebe the starting right tackle in week
ten? Less certain? I think. So. Here's a couple of there's
a here's why this is great andwhy he is a particularly snug fit for
(03:00):
their situation. One, he lovesbeing mister versatility. He loves that I
can play left, I can playright. He just said, you know,
I feel like I'm the best inthe league at protecting one on one
on either side, and views thatas sort of his superpower. Well,
guess what Orlando Brown can do thesame thing. Trent Brown can do that.
And if you draft a guy,and a lot of these tackles that
(03:23):
you would draft could be year one, maybe even play guard type guys could
beat him out at right tackle andinjury happens to anybody these two huge guys,
injuries are a possibility. Trent Brown'shad injuries, you now have so
much versatility to withstand injury. Andthis is an under this scenario that you're
still taking a tackle at eighteen towithstand injury, to move somebody inside,
(03:47):
to move left to right, andto be able to handle all of that
for a team that's trying to winnow, to a team that thinks often
about winning in January that has lostin January and February because of not being
able to withstand injuries on the offensiveline, a guy like this with that
type of versatility is particularly enticing fortheir current situation where they're still vision a
(04:14):
win now, but still needing tobuild that vision of protecting Burrow for the
long haul. Yeah, I thinkhe fits the profile, not just from
a size perspective of the sort ofplayer we talked about the Bengals getting in
the absence of Jonah Williams coming back. Is he on the upper range of
those possibilities. Yeah, here's thething. So when you are in since
(04:35):
really you know, Joe Burrow hasreally got here. And we talked to
Dan Pitcher about that and the samethings that Brian Callahan said before him,
that Frank Pollack has said before him. Their offense is what it is.
It is we are here to letJoe Burrow throw and process because he doesn't
better than anybody in the world,and let the receivers win. And he
(04:56):
likes to spread it out. Soyou want. Number one thing you can
do is you better be able topass pro and you know what, you
better be able to do it oneon one a lot because they're gonna go
spread a lot. They're gonna bean empty a lot. That's gonna be
a part of it. Well,last year, hardly anybody was one on
one on the outside more than TrentBrown, and he was second league next
(05:16):
gen stats on pressure percentage out.He can do it. He can do
it on the right side, hecan do it on the left side.
It allows you to play to thosestrengths the rest of it figured out as
you go. The run game figuredout as you go. All if Burrow
can sit back there and feel confidentand feel protected in the pocket and when
he's in spread, well guess whatyour offense is gonna have very little problem
(05:39):
succeeding in that. And that's kindof where they start everything. And when
you're not having at this point foragency, the people available or even free
agency at all, Really the peopleavailable at that position are not gonna check
every box. They're not stars.They're not stars. They are what deficiencies
can we tolerate? Well, ifthere's a big, bold check through the
(06:01):
box that says pass pro one onone in an ad versatility left or right,
the rest of it can kind offigure itself out. And I think
that's another great thing about Trump Brown. This would not preclude them from taking
the right tackle. You wrote aboutthe clarity of the draft strategy. Given
the way the first week or soa free agency played out, this would
not preclude them from taking a righttackle at eighteen. The smart money would
(06:26):
still be if you had to picka position, that'd being the one they
address at eighteen. It almost reemphasizes it, man, you know,
because It is the perfect It isthe perfect combination for what they want to
be now and in the long term. But and if keeping Burrow protected and
investing in your offensive line is alwaysnumber one with this guy, then yes,
(06:48):
you're always doing that. You werenot pigeonholed m But look, the
strength of the draft is the strengthof the draft. I mean, they're
gonna have somebody that's pretty darn goodsitting there that could be their right tackle
of the future at eighteen. Almostcertainly you don't have to do that because
you're right, but Trent Brown's hadinjury. This is I mean to think
(07:11):
that he's definitely gonna play in throughthe playoffs every week. That's you know,
you're you're probably at a coin flipperless on that one. So they
don't have a swing tackle that anybodycould trust. So I still think you're
looking there. Again, you don'thave to, but I just think this
is maybe the the ideal scenario ofthe of the bridge tackle first round pick
(07:38):
plan. So it's not apples toapples. But last year, for seven
weeks we talk about tight end andthere's a thousand tight ends. Boy with
a deep class of tight ends,Bengals didn't take one. Now, I
find it implausible to think the Bengalsaren't gonna draft a right tackle. But
I'm also I'm I'm a little skittichon focusing specifically on tackle at eighteen because
(08:03):
I maybe this is my fault.I did that at tight end last year
with the thirty fifth overall pick.Yeah, but I don't think it was
ever a thought that they were definitelygonna take tight end at thirty. I
thought at some point they thought wasat some point they would and it didn't
fall their way. It's hard tosee scenarios where it doesn't fall their way
just because there's so many guys attheir position and it is early. I
(08:24):
think you can better predict here.So I just we just got done doing
our first post free agency beat writermock draft, which is my favorite one
that we do every year because weall, as you know, across the
league now have clarity on our teamsand the our writers are so plugged into
what everything's going to do. AndI was actually stunned at the choice I
(08:45):
had to make. It was TelisSuaga from Oregon State was available, and
so was Byron Murphy, the defensivetackle from Texas I didn't think there was
a person I would take above ByronMurphy, including everything I just said about
tackle, because he could be areal dude. He could be a the
real three technique that you're dying tohave and they're so hard to find anywhere
else. And I passed because Ifelt like Fuaga is so perfect for what
(09:11):
they would want to be and combiningthat his ability to play garter tackle with
Trent Brown's ability to play left orright and all of that upfront makes so
much sense. He might be theonly one of those tackles that could fall
that I would do that for.But point being like, there's a lot
that's available to you there that youcan that certainly could be there. But
(09:35):
I just think that combination is greatin the area that you want to be
great. If right tackle is sodeep and you're drafting in the middle of
round one, why not trade downif you could still get one later on
in round one. Is that apossibility. Yes, absolutely, it's a
possibility. I don't think that's outof the question. I think being later
in the round, there's still anumber of those guys that would be more
(09:58):
projection that would be available. Geiitonmimes some of the other big guys that
you have to think more, butmaybe you like some of them in particular.
Yeah, and adding picks would nothurt. They have ten already,
but there's a lot of room formovement on day two to potentially pinpoint whether
it's the receiver that you want oryou know whatever, you're trying to figure
(10:20):
out. The defensive tackle for all, that situation would be, uh,
you can't. I don't think that'sout of the question at all. By
the way, Paul covers the Bengalsfor the Athletics Oh yeah, the Athletic
dot Com. I can read hiswork on what the Bengals have done so
far in free agency. I wantto talk about it. I got to
mention in one of your pieces aboutdox Hill that was nice. Yeah,
you did. I try. Itold you I try to mention you as
(10:41):
much as possible. And it hadbeen a while and I felt like,
oh, this is a good opportunityto make sure you know that this is
still something that I like to Eastereight and since last Monday, how many
podcasts have you done well since lastMonday. Let's see, we did five
last week and we just did theone and then one tomorrow with Okay,
we're back kind of normal, backat a normal scout with the growler.
Yeah, growler, So J andI tomorrow morning we'll have all the reaction
(11:05):
to Trent, Paul and I yesterday. Ye. Mark shallafu sort of a
lighter side of the Bengals who daylightyes on Fridays yep, which is terrific.
And so you have it covered fromwith Jay, you have, like
you know, fellow beat reporter peerwith Mark funny. I don't know what
I'm supposed to bring to the table, but I'm honored to be asked.
Nonetheless, you haven't. You havemany opinions. I do. We're both
(11:26):
bald and that's it. We checkedthose boxes. I mean, look,
you know how much I enjoy it, so so you don't have to tell
me twice. It's sixteen minutes afterthree o'clock. We're at Turfway Park,
Racing and Gaming, Churchhills, Bourbonand Brew the Bar right here in the
middle of this awesome facility. Greatplace to watch the NCAA tournament, great
place this weekend, one of thebest parties on the sports calendar, one
(11:50):
of North of Kentucky's best parties theJeff Ruby Stakes. It's coming up on
Saturday. Tickets on sale now atticketmaster dot com. We're gonna give away
some tickets a little bit later onif you know your March Madness schools and
I could not come up with agoofier way to put that, so that's
what we'll do. We'll have thatfor you in the five o'clock hour.
(12:11):
It's seventeen after three o'clock. I'mMoeger. He's Paul Danner Junior. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. After three ESPN fifteen thirty Moeggar broadcasting
this afternoon from Turbway Park Racing andGaming in Northern Kentucky. Right off I
seventy five, a great place towatch college basketball and bet on college basketball
(12:35):
all weekend long. Paul Danner Juniorfrom The Athletic and the Growler podcast is
here. You could follow Paul onsocial media at Paul Danner Junior Bengals.
If you missed it, today theymake it official. Trent Brown signs a
free agent contract right tackle or tackleI guess one year deal with Cincinnati and
so the next step in the longand winding road to the draft and to
(12:58):
the season here in free agency tookplace today. Whatever the hell that happens,
Paul Danny, We're getting food putin front of this. So I
was some onion rings wings like that. It's a good start. That's pretty
good. Do we know what thesauce is on those wings? Mo or
are you a little nervous spot?I'm gonna guess they're more mild than what
I had yesterday. Okay, that'sgood, made fined. You might want
to check on that. I'm goingto guess. But uh, I'm a
(13:20):
big onion rings guy, so I'mpretty excited. Yeah. Uh. On
the offensive line, yeah, youknow you talk about, well you could
you could draft a guy to playtackle long term, but maybe you know
he could play guard? Is howsafe is Cordell Wolson spot? Because I
felt like there was a time duringthe season where we started to talk about,
(13:41):
you know what, maybe you atleast should bring in some competition,
and then I felt like toward theend of the season he played fine.
And then I listened to what DukeTobin had to say about him at the
at the combine, and I'm going, Okay, well, Cordell is safe.
I'm still not sure he should be, Like, could could you see
him being in a competition with aguy they dan to be the left guard?
No, I don't think so.Yeah, No, I think they.
(14:03):
I think they feel pretty confident aboutCordell and his development right now and
who he should be this year.Now, if the year goes on and
you get to a point where he'sregressed or playing more like the guy from
the early part of the year andnot the second part of the year,
and you have somebody with position flexthat could step in, well that's a
different conversation. But I think rightnow, I think there's a lot of
(14:26):
confidence in Cordell that they'll be fineand and it should be all good there.
Yeah, no, DJ reader,Yeah, were you surprised that things
went down the way? No?They did, I mean like some were.
No, I don't know. Idon't know that I was surprised.
I feel like we tried to spellthis out the entire time, age position
(14:54):
in injury history. This is whythat injury was so brutal for him.
For the was I think they allhad eyes that, you know, what
they could invest in maybe another yearor two or DJ and the league was
going to be really interested in investinganother year or two. The injury just
it really just took so much offthe table there, and I think they
(15:16):
felt like they had to be,you know, younger or more confident in
that position. I think they wouldhave liked to have seen it work out.
I think they were open to itworking out, but I don't think
it got particularly close to where Detroitwent with DJ And I'm okay with this.
I think it's hard to think thison top of everything else. I
(15:41):
mean, there's a lot of familiarity. I mean, I think I had
the numbers on the amount of snapsthat went out the door between those five
guys, I mean the last sincetwenty twenty. It's like over fourteen thousand
snaps between the five assuming Tyler Boydgoes and that's just wild and a playoff
starts on all of them captains firstpick and Zach Taylor's tenure, Like,
(16:03):
yeah, I mean these are thisisn't just watching cj usamag ot the This
is this was core culture, foundationalpieces, so Reader being the biggest of
those and literally and figuratively, andso for that to happen, yeah,
I think it was tough to see. But again, it just philosophy is
(16:26):
going to trump sentiment. Yeah,okay, they should. They're gonna be
young, yeah they are. Theywant to be healthy. They look back
at the previous few years and rightfullysay, look, so much of our
our usage the snaps have gone toplayers who are younger, who are in
(16:48):
their twenties. They're not gonna investin player in their thirties because the chances
of those players breaking down and staininginjury and having the level of play decrease
is just so much higher. Sothey're gonna make safer bets and churn it.
Okay, And they've done that atevery single spot, and nothing challenged
that more than DJ Reader. Everyoneeveryone loved, everyone loved, but at
(17:12):
a certain point. He had majorinjuries in three of us four years,
correct, you know, And andhe's now thirty and in that position as
well, does not lend itself toage on top of everything. I would
have made the same decision. Ialso, however, I think I would.
I think I would have too,But as an outside observer, had
(17:33):
I found out they're bringing back DJReader, I wouldn't have been angry.
No, but at what at whatcosts? Right? You know? However,
if I knew that that was thedirection I was gonna go. I
would have been more aggressive for arun stopping defensive tackle earlier in free agency.
I would not have let those guysgo. I would not have said
(17:56):
none of these There's just no wayof all. I mean, there there
were a bunch of guys that thinkwhat you want to think about PFF grades
or whatever. There were a bunchof them that were up there and run
defense grades. A bunch that signedfor less than eight million dollars per year
three, four or five whatever.You couldn't have over extended yourself a little
(18:17):
bit there, the same way youended up doing for Sheldon Rankins, because
it's priority and you knew you weregonna let DJ Reader go. It's the
biggest problem I had with how lastweek unfolded, not with letting Read go.
It's with not covering yourself a littlebetter on the front end, knowing
you were probably gonna let DJ Readergo. And now now this team that
(18:37):
got steamrolled in the division on theground is gonna be grasping at straws trying
to put together answers at the mostimportant part of stopping that. You're gonna
have folks who say I get allthat, but look, I'm concerned about
stopping the pass, yes, right, and so if I'm better rushing the
pass or and on the back end, they have to be a week at
(19:02):
accept being bad against the run.That sounds great in March until Derrick Henry
is running you over and Nick Chubbis running you know. And did you
watch last year's zero to five divisionalstart. I mean that's what it was.
They got run over and left everybodyin third and two over and over
and over again, or just ranthem down the field. And you know
(19:22):
that's not saying that DJ Reader returningwas gonna DJ was there for a lot
of it last year. It wasn't. There were a lot of other problems.
It's not on the defensive tackling.And I thought Sheldon Rankins was really
interesting talking about that yesterday, abouthis ability to look, no one's calling
him DJ Reader, but to assertsome of what DJ does to be a
(19:45):
good run defender in there and notbe the pass rushing third down three technique,
him pointing out, look, I'vebeen on the field first and second
down with every team that I've beenwith. They have wanted me out there.
You can say whatever you want aboutwho I am. There was a
time where people thought, oh,I'm only a run guy, and I
thought all of that was really interestingin his interest and sort of confidence in
(20:07):
being able to take on some ofthat role that can help. He's not
built to do that, though,and you don't want to be putting extra
snaps onto him because he has theage factor that they kind of had to
swallow a little bit because the marketwas so rotten at defensive tackle, so
that you don't want to be puttingmore there. You just you just would
love to have one more really solidrun stopper guy as part of that rotation
(20:33):
today because you don't want to becounting on a rookie to come in and
do that. And there's not reallyreal a bunch of rookies that can come
in and do that with any confidence, and so it just it puts you
in a bit of a spot there, and they've got to kind of figure
out what the creative solution is tothat going forward. All Right. I
have a lot of other stuff toask you about, including the Dak Sill
situation because he's intriguing and some stuffthat went down since you and I last
(20:56):
talked. On Tuesday, both formerBangal and current Bengals and some stuff that
happened in the AFC North as well. Paul Danner Juniors. Here, we're
at the Bourbon Churchill's Bourbon and BrewBar inside Turfway Park, racing and gaming.
It's twenty eight away from four o'clockon ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station
Cincy three sixty with Tony Pike.Do we want to move onct to keep
(21:21):
going? And Boston Elmore? Ithink you che continent? Let me keep
going then Sincy three sixty Tomorrow attwelve noons on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati's esp
see Chevro Light home of lifetime Howarddrained for protection and guarantee credit approval from
their family to yours for life atkelseyschev dot com. Bengals made it official.
(21:44):
Free agent tackle Trent Brown signs aone year contract, getting set for
his tenth NFL season and obviously hisfirst in Cincinnati. Hunter Gain gets the
ball this afternoon. Reds and AngelsCincinnati the road team today for ten first
pitch n It starts tonight in Athensto take on Georgia. Tip off at
seven o'clock on fifty five KRC.Winner of that game will take on either
(22:06):
Wake Forest or Appalasian State. Thosetwo schools play tomorrow, also tonight in
the nit Ohio State squares off againstCornell. First four underway in dayton tonight
Wagner and Howard a pair of sixteen's, and then Colorado State and Virginia a
pair of ten seeds. Both ofthose games can be heard live on Fox
Sports thirteen sixty Hockey tonight, theBlue Jacket Skate against the Detroit Red Wings,
(22:30):
Paul Danner juniors here on the Bengalsand Trent Brown and so much more
covering the Bengals for the Athletic dotCom and the podcast The Growler, as
we say, available where you getyour podcasts. And this week my microphone
was on. Yeah, congratulations onthat one. We made that work.
You know, you have all thesepodcasting people you get on the radio guy,
and I'm the guy whose microphone's noton. It's okay, It's not
(22:52):
okay. You project you projected thepoint that I was even angry with myself.
No, well, don't be,don't be. I mean, I
didn't lose sleep, but I wasempraily. But that doesn't make you wonder,
like, why was I listening tomyself? Yeah? Well that that
was actually my I didn't want tobring that up. I was a little
concerdent you go back and re listento you, to your segments to make
(23:12):
I thought in real time, myperformance on your podcast was so bad.
But I'm honest to god, I'mlike, really, I did the same
yesterday. Like I'm I'm over.I'm over two in the new venture.
So is there something about the newsetup that's making you uncomfortable? I'm getting
used to Mondays. This is partof the this is the Monday issue.
(23:34):
Okay, maybe we should early recordit, like Friday afternoon at five.
That'd be fun. I feel likeI'd get a better interesting version. You
would get an interesting version. Paul'shere, Uh that we're at turf Way
Park, racing and gaming via Churchill'sBruise and bar Bourbon and bar Bourbon and
brew bar. Easy for me tosay. I'm surprised our good friend Richard
(23:55):
Skinner isn't just sitting here right now. This seems like where he would be.
I sort of thought like he'd havehis laptop here. Yeah, do
we just come and he'd be workingor working or this is kind of like
what his basement looks like. Ifeel like just geping up on the tracks,
got the got the crawl, goinga million TVs. Food. I
mean you think he has a bettingkiosk in his basement, would you?
(24:17):
I wouldn't say no. I wouldimagine that's a likely. It just has
a phone that is just strictly forbetting and it's set up in kiosk style.
Holder. Yeah, yeah, peoplewalking? Is that for an emergency
well, for an emergency wager?You and I, uh last week talked
about the fact the Bengals were gonnatrade Joe Mixon and we thought, well,
(24:38):
that's that's kind of cool. TheBengals are going to get something in
return. And then I think,if I'm not mistaken, you leave the
studio and we we do our littlesports show and Tarren says to me,
Joe Mixon just got a contract extensionand thirteen mil from the Texans, and
I'm like, you know, Tarren, this isn't the time the joke around.
Yeah, like, and he's like, where we're here to have fun,
(25:00):
but I'm trying to do or showhere and no, Mo, actually
that that's a thing that happened.Yeah, were you as I was.
I'm not surprised that they leaned intohim for a year beyond twenty twenty four.
I guess I'm really surprised that themoney, even though the running back
market and free agency kind of blewup in maybe unexpected ways. Yeah,
(25:22):
absolutely, I was floored. Andit's not necessarily a not necessarily a Joe
Mixon thing. Any aging running backthat gets significant guaranteed money for a team
that he's never played a down for, you can think it's gonna be a
good fit. You can think everythingshould work out all right. You don't
(25:45):
know that anytime people get extensions beforethey play it down for somebody and don't
really even you don't even know whothe person is, totally yeavy, And
then you throw in what to meis what this is mostly about, which
is just why are people paying agentrunning backs like ever? We've seen this
show so many times that you willoccasionally get someone that hits, but more
(26:06):
often than not, it's Dalvin Cook, it's Melvin Gordon, it's I don't
name any of these guys. There'sbeen so many that just it's just not
the same. You know what thisdoes and you know, how many of
these young rookies come into the leagueand have no problem being successful And and
so that's the stunning part to me, not necessarily that he was let go
(26:30):
or that he was traded for aconditional seventh or whatever, that that there
was an investment like that into andan aging running back with the kind of
where that has been put on Joeis surprising when the ultimate win win win,
like the Texans got what they clearlywanted. Joe got way more money
than he ever thought he was gonnaget in keeping his original contract and getting
(26:52):
this extra guaranteed, and the Bengalswere able to find something that fits them
a little bit better in terms ofMoss and Brown and as a combo,
and everyone's happy. But yeah,I'm still surprised at how as a child
of divorce parents, as somebody who'sbeen through a divorce, as and this
is the greatest divorce of all time. Yeah, I mean, legitimately,
(27:14):
everybody got out of it what theywanted. Everybody feels like they're better off
for what happened. Yeah, andwho knows, maybe that will change.
Everybody feels better off at the youknow, the remarriage and like and then
a couple of years into that andthings, maybe that wasn't such a good
idea. Maybe maybe the Bengals madethe wrong decision, Maybe the Texans made
there. Maybe Joe who knows,it could be like my dad's second marriage.
(27:37):
But yeah, you know, maybethings weren't all that bad. I
don't want to delve into you know, I don't don't. I don't really
either. Uh. Dax Hill isthe most interesting Bengal because he's a a
guy who a year ago is theheir apparent to a player who was very
popular and very good and and nowI don't know what position he's gonna play.
(27:57):
And I think you can make thecase for trading. Yes, yeah,
that's not a question. It's justyes to all three. No,
No, I mean yes it is. And he's also someone that they still
really like and believe in. Idon't believe in him that much. Well,
not safety, that's clear, right. I mean, we we got
(28:18):
the answer there. If you werelooking for that answer, we got it.
So we know that with Bell andStone and Battle and an ty Snanderson,
that room feels cemented right now.And there's stuff you can do,
obviously, But again, the onething that was said was they want Dax
Hill to be good at one thing. They want him to find what his
one thing is and and be goodat it. The most obvious move that
(28:42):
they could make right now would befor him to be Mike Hilton's backup.
And for a guy who has value, he is insanely athletic. He is
a talented guy who two years agowas a first round pick for a reason,
he was consensus first round. Okay, for that that to be in
year three, this is supposed tobe your biggest value you get on any
(29:06):
player, is your first round pickin year three for him to be he
could be Mike Hilton's backup potentially ortrying to compete for something else that's not
where you want it to be.But also you cut your losses a little
bit and say, well, itdoesn't matter what he was supposed to be.
Let's figure out getting the most outof who he we know he is
right now, and maybe that's thespot. It just feels like there's one
(29:30):
more step here. Yeah, itfeels like there's one more thing because you
know, you think, I thinkyou joked about how can Dax Hill play
defensive tackle? Mm? Well no, but he could probably fetch one.
But see, that's why you're goodat what you do, because I'm I'm
just a clown, Like I'm justlaying in bed late at night, and
(29:51):
I thought, well, I'll weighinto the Dack skill thing and report that
he's moving to defensive tackle when everybodyhas a little laugh, and it's fine,
yeah, pat me on the headand go okay, let the adults
talk about football now. But thenyou take my little joke and turn it
into a point, which is,you know, for a position of need,
could you flip Dax Hill for adefensive tackle? And I've got to
(30:11):
think at some point the answer couldbe yes, you could. Now it
doesn't happen often, right, Imean I went back and looked through just
the history of guys playing for twoteams first round picks in their first three
years trade it. It does nothappen often. And there's a reason for
that because there's still so much beliefin that that guy can become who you
put that chip on. And Ithink that still exists with the Bengals,
(30:33):
and the Bengals lack of willingness tomove off picks, lack of willingness to
make trades, in general, bothof those would say this is a very
minor thing. But you know,at a certain point we talked a lot
about, hey, win now andt Higgins is here for one year on
the tag and this team can winit, and you're kind of going for
it a little bit. If that'sthe case, You've got two years of
(30:56):
Dax Hill. Yeah, so couldit get you two year years of another
impact player at a different position thatbetter fits you? You know? Maybe
I think it's I just think it'ssomething that at the very least a conversation
has had when you weigh the currentnew setup of what the roster is,
when you got Von Bell, whenyou still have Mike Hilton, when you
(31:18):
have DJ Turner, when you havea lot in the ability to even add
another corner in the draft, thatcould be a verse. Like, there's
just a lot of different things whereyou could end up being better on the
whole by moving. But I don'tthink that's something that would happen. I
just think it's something that you've gotto be creative in what you're doing right
now because you've got this kind oflost piece. Yeah, you know,
(31:41):
and inevitably, here's what will happenis somebody will get hurt in week three
or four somewhere, whether it beoutside corner, whether it be Mike Hilton,
whether it be one of the twoof the safetyes, and you need
that guy. And we talked aboutthis last year. They built that roster
to win in January. They builtit with depth on defense. It didn't
(32:04):
turn out as they hoped, butthe way they were building it was correct.
There was tons of backup options thatwith high draft picks that you could
believe in, could step in.And maybe that's just what dex Hill is
and he ends up playing a hugerole for you and grows into something like
you've got to have that if youwant to be at play in January team,
you got to have it. Andespecially in the secondary where people are
(32:27):
grasping at absolute straws. Usually atthe end of the year you want to
have backup plans, so that ismore likely where they're sitting. But man,
it just feels like you would lovethat. You just feel like it
should there should be a bigger rolefor what he could potentially provide. I
have like five more topics for you. Yeah, and we only have twelve
(32:47):
minutes, so let's get the breakin and then we'll come back and we'll
go like lightning round. Okay,yeah, I can do It's not gonna
be even I mean, I don'tknow. It's gonna be like eight eight.
All right, we'll see how manyhow many of you? How many
think we can go one, two, three, five, five and eight
minutes? Five and eight minutes?So I think we can do it?
(33:07):
Yeah, I can. I knewyou could even double that if you really
wanted me to go fast, reallyright, we'll find out when we come
back. It's eleven away from fouro'clock. We're at Turfway Park racing and
gaming on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati SportsStation. Hey Cincinnati, did you know?
And there's still a game coming up. No Red has gotten injured today,
which is Nice's been a lot ofa whole lot a lot of injuries.
(33:29):
We always talk about that. Theworst thing is the soreness in spring
training. Yep, And there's alot of soreness. Two guys in the
last two days shoulder soreness. Ah, you don't you just you don't want
that in March, man, don'twant that in March. Are are you
ready? Oh? Yeah, I'mready. It could a depressed market for
Tyler Boyd Meani comes back to Cincinnati. I don't think so. I mean,
I just think everybody is kind ofset their path forward there. Their
(33:53):
ride receiver room is perfectly structured withsix players and an opening it slot receiver.
Like for a draft pick, nobodywants Tyler Boyd. I don't.
I guess it's always possible, butyou don't want to bring Tyler Boyd back
when he's going to be a backuppotentially. I mean, you're clearing the
deck for two young guys to adda little bit more speed at thought receiver.
(34:15):
I think everyone on all sides iscomfortable with that. Is darny chance.
Trent Irwin, now that he's backin the fold, enjoys an increased
role. I think he enjoys thesame role, which is usually at some
point in the season they say,man, we got to lean on Trent.
It's just you got the guy whoruns the routes the way that Joe
Burrow likes him run and is reliablemakes plays. There will be a point
(34:37):
in this season where Trent Irwin willhave a two to three game run where
you're like, man, so gladhe's here and that's why he's still on
the run. He's like the perfectX sixth guy. He's the perfect sixth
guy because he could do that inthe slot, he can do it on
the outside. He's done it before. He's already got the chemistry. You're
good. I feel like the KeemDavis Gather contract surprise some people. I'm
(34:57):
not sure why should it have.It's a little more than you probably thought.
But I also think that he wasmore valued around the league than people
give credit for. He it's justthe circumstances that he hasn't really played more.
I think everybody can see that heobviously has some skill and and could
be a starter potentially in this league, and is a great special teamer.
There's value in that. The capis two hundred and fifty five million dollars.
(35:22):
Three is not a lot. IfI'm a Pittsburgh Steelers fan, should
I be excited about our new quarterbackroom? You should not? I mean,
how much is Denver paying for Russnot to be there right now?
The guy it's like, and howoften did anyone who you put a microphone
in front of in Seattle say he'sgot We got to get this guy out
(35:44):
of here. Dumped all over him, and maybe Mike Tomlin, I mean,
you look, Mike Tomlin can canmake things happen. He can make
he can take some crazy personalities andturn him into wins and maybe he can
do that with Russ here, andmaybe it ends up being Justin Fields,
but I would not be super excited. Although it's probably better than what they
have. Steelers fans are not gonnalike Russell Willson. He is not a
(36:06):
fit for the city of Pittsburgh,That's correct. You know, last week
a lot of folks were having agood time with this Justin Jefferson thing,
including us. They they sent meover to the Kenwood Town Center, what
Yeah, to see if I couldfind them. I went on Tony and
Austin show from the Kenwood Town Center, and I didn't find Justin Jefferson.
(36:28):
I found like a nine month oldgetting her ears pierced, and I was
going to try to rescue her fromlike the dad looked like you could hang
a shower curtain from his nose.So I really felt bad, But I
didn't see Justin Jefferson. When whenthere's fervor for something like that, how
does this impact something like somebody likeyou uh, you, because I feel
(36:52):
bad for point at a certain pointyou you do want to like triple check
like I'm not missing something here,right, And once you kind of get
feel comfordent about that, then wecan commence making fun of it. Yeah.
Actually, and I'm gonna use yourmassive audience here to help. I
am in search of lix bound fiftynine, who did the Facebook post claiming
(37:16):
like through Kroger and like it wasa whole thing that was circulating. That's
kind of where it's okay, that'sbecause that's what everyone was sending to everyone
and reaching it. It looked verymade up in fake uh. And so
I'm really curious if anybody knows whothat person is. I'd love to talk
to them about what it's like tocreate a rumor out of thin air.
(37:37):
There there was someone named Olivia involved, correct and I there's Olivia Ray at
Channel five. And so when Isaw Olivia, I went, Wow,
what a scoop. Olivia Ray gotyou in the middle of this. And
then so I go to her socialmedia and she's like having coffee with her
husband. Yes, so that's notwhere it originated. I don't think.
(37:58):
Maybe that's where justin Jefferson was atthat coffee shop, you know, having
a nice coffee and walked right intoit. And so then we got to
the point where finally somebody asked me, like, where did this start?
And I said, I don't know, but you know, just a goofball.
Like me, about four or fivetimes last week somebody would say,
like my next door neighbor's like,is it gonna happen? Yeah, And
I'm like, uh what, yeah, with Justin Jefferson. So if a
(38:22):
weirdo like me is getting these questions, I can't imagine real journalists like yourself
how often you get them? AndI can have fun with it. I
could go to the Kimwood Town Center. You're trying to report hard news.
Yeah, it's hard because that's whateverybody wanted to talk about, and that
would be a significant story. Ohyeah, there's no doubt about it.
I just I'm trying to figure outthe last time that someone who has worked
(38:45):
their whole lives for one contract toset them and everyone they know it for
the rest of their lives. Who'slike, you know what, I'll take
less a lot less, And Ithink and my buddy will too. And
then my other buddy we're all reallytight. We all have decided, right,
we don't want all the money thatwe're actually worth. We would take
less just so that we can playtogether. For Look, a year ago,
at this time, people were convincingthemselves like Joe Burrow would play for
(39:08):
like the league minimum. So oh, he's he's not that kind of guy.
And I would say competitive, Well, he's very so, because you
know how NFL athletes compete. Who'sthe highest paid? Okay, that's that's
what it is, all right.You could read Paul's work Colaviny Breaking justin
Jefferson News not yet at the Athleticdot Com l i X bound fifty nine.
(39:29):
If you're out there, I'm lookingfor you. Contact. That would
be a good podcast guest. I'dbe a great guest. I'm here for
it, all right. I guessbig good radio show guests too. We'll
talk to you in two weeks.Yeah, looking forward to it, all
right. Paul Danner, Junior atthe Athletic dot Com. Listen to the
Growler podcast. It's four o'clock.We're at Turfway Park, racing and gaming
on ESPN fifteen thirty Sports. I'mChristine Leazy, two of the NBA's top
(39:54):
teams face off tonight when the defendingchampion Nuggets visit the Timberwolves. Each team
has what a eleven of its lastthirteen games, and they're tied for second
in the West, is a halfgame back of Oklahoma City. Of course,
the stars are key, but soare the role players for both teams.
Espn NBA analysts Tim Legler, JaneMcDaniels and his contributions offensively, the
(40:14):
impact that he has defensively, andI look at nas Reed, who has
been more than adequate, you know, filling in for an injured Carl Anthony
Towns. He's been spectacular times.And then for Denver Michael Porter Junior,
who may be playing some of thebest basketball of his career since the All
Star Break. And then Aaron Gordon, which who I think every night the
Nuggets look spectacular. Aaron Gordon hashis imprint all over that Cavaliers shooting guard
(40:37):
Donovan Mitchell out at least one weekafter undergoing a procedure to repair a nasal
fracture. Clenson's accompanying Florida State inthe legal fight against the acc Clenson filed
a lawsuit against the conference over itsmedia rights deal tigers like FSU, seeking
to nullify the one hundred and fortymillion dollar penalty. The ACC says a
widow if the school left the conference. How you it's the resident Super Bowl
(41:00):
Champ, Chris Kennedy coming on Wednesday. With all the shuffling we've seen at
quarterback, I'll tell you which teamsare headed for QB competitions. It's unsportsman
like six am Eastern right here onthe ESPN Radio, ESPN two at ESPNU
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