April 10, 2025 • 17 mins
Joe Goodberry's "Bengals On The Brain" show is a must-watch for Bengals fans, and no one talks about the draft in greater detail.
Joe joined us on ESPN1530.
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Joe joined us on ESPN1530.
Podcasts of The Mo Egger Radio Show are a service of Longnecks Sports Grill.
Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
Listen Live: ESPN1530.com/listen
Get more: https://linktr.ee/MoEgger
Follow on X: @MoEgger
Instagram too: @MoEgger
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Twenty Surge three o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. The
NFL Draft is two weeks from tonight. Round one is
two weeks from tonight. By the way, April twenty fourth,
we are broadcasting from Long Necks in Wilder. You cannot
have a draft without talking with Joe Goodberry Bengals on
the Brain. His YouTube show is absolutely terrific in depth, detailed, nuanced,
(00:23):
and so go watch it. I appreciate the time, Joe.
Let's get started. So if things go the way you
want them to go over the first sixteen picks, who
do you want the Bengals to take with the seventeenth pick?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Ooh, that's a good way to start it. I would
say I'm circling down to my last few guys, and
I would really love Calvin Banks Junior. He's a left
tackle at Texas. We're talking about a five star recruit
twenty one years old, but I think he'd be a
better guard, especially early in his career the way he plays.
I just put on the Michigan game for Bengals on
the Brain, our last episode, and he's taking on Mason
(00:59):
Graham Nneth Grant because they slide the protection a lot
and he ends up inside even playing left tackle, but
he gets Josiah Stewart on another fifteen or so reps,
and man, he has a dominant performance versus all three
of them. He plays low, he plays aggressive, he's strong,
he's got great balance and anchor. I think he'd make
an excellent guard and one of the few guards that
(01:19):
probably hit the ground running as rookies because they don't
tend to perform really well offensive lineman offense defensive lineman
tend to take a year. But I still would do
it and say hey, because we have such a big need,
because I think he'd normally be a top ten pick
in every other class, but it's a pretty strong a
line class. If Kelvin Banks is still there, I would
see that as a home run.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
So what they do at guard is at least to
a degree, a reflection of what they've done with the
position so far in free agency, and they can still
maybe add a guy. Are you surprised that they have
taken the approach they have to this point at that position.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I am, because I want to protect Joe Burrow first
and foremost right, and I think the guard position has
been a sore spot for them since Burrow's been here.
Manh probably even longer than that, since they lost Kevin
Zeitler and you know, twenty seventeen or so. So yeah,
it's it's been an issue for them. But it's funny
because I don't get to my to the end of
the draft process where I feel really strong about my
(02:14):
opinions or these these the grades that the formula fits
out for the work we do on these prospects until
about late March, so it's after free agency, and I
assume the Bengals and NFL teams are ahead of me.
I'm assume they have grades on these guys before that.
So when I get to early April, I go, wow,
this guard class is excellent. There are a ton of
guards in this class. And then I start getting the
(02:35):
feeling as we approach the draft. But the Bengal are
gonna take a care heart at some point, and it
starts to make sense why they didn't go out and
overpace for some of these guys in free agency, like
an Aaron Banks who got crazy contract from the forty
nine ers to the Packers. I don't think he's that
could have a player got a great contract both for
I've got a big contract and preegency. I'm not into
any of those guys. So if the alternative is, well,
(02:56):
we're going to spend a premium pick on at least
one guard and maybe we'll find an other one after
free agency, as Zach Tiler kind of alluded to, or
maybe they draft too, you know, somewhere in this draft.
Because it's that strong. I come home and say, Okay,
this is a long term solution rather than a one
year deal for Kevin Zeitler or a one year deal
for Brandon Shirp, which I would have accepted completely. Don't
get me wrong, but looking long term, this is a
(03:17):
really good class to say we're going to take a guard,
and we're going to take one with a premium pick.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
So if they don't take a Garden round one, I
should feel pretty good still about their chances to get
a guy who can be plugged in and played in
in in the in the last two days. Let me
do that again, I'm sound like I'm moron. So with
the depth of that position, if they don't get a
Garden round one, they can get a guy later on
that could start and play this year.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
No doubt about it. As long as they don't Jackson
Carmen this thing and say all right, we're going to
take someone that's, you know, a fourth fifth round pick
in round two, that they should be all right. I
like the guys that'll be there in round two. I
don't know like some of the fringe first guys like
Great Zabel, I think it's probably gone by the time
they get to forty nine. Maybe that's a trade option.
I think pretty much same for Donovan Jackson on the state,
he probably goes before they pick at forty nine because
(04:06):
he is a true guard and a really good player,
and he played left tackle. Like the teams are gonna
be like, hey, he can kick out there if we
need him. This guy knows what he's doing. But if
you get down to like Tate Ratlich from Georgia, I
do expect he'll be there at forty nine. And that's
a plug and play right guard that played next to
Marius Men's. In fact, his twenty twenty three tape the
first time I was exposed to him because we were
watching men so much. He was excellent in twenty twenty three.
(04:28):
In fact, he probably was the first round guard based
on that tape, and then he wasn't as effective last year,
new right tackle, new center. Jared Wilson being the other
Georgia guy who I think is an instant starter, could
probably play in mcguard even though he played center. He's
got the size of a guard. He's a second or
third rounder. There are a ton of guys here. We've
got ten guys with startuble grades for the interior offensive line,
(04:49):
and I don't expect maybe one, two, maybe it's three
by the time that are gone by the time they
get to forty nine. So we have a ton of
options there in round two and potentially round three.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Of the position where they have the biggest needs, where
can they least afford to wait?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I would say defensive tackle, and defensive tackle is an
interesting one because I want a pass rusher right If
we're saying, if we're trying it with needs, they need
to get more explosive inside, they need to get more
athletic in side. They need some pass rush help. Signing TJ.
Slaton is great for defending the run and giving you
a big body, nose tackle, but for sixty percent of
the game when the other teams throwing the ball, you
need someone to go get the quarterback. And I'm not
(05:27):
sure they have a guy that can do that. Chris
Jenkins was never profiled as a high end pass rusher.
Neither was kim Lee Jackson. I assume they expect those
guys to take steps in year two, But is that enough.
Do you have defensive tackle number one or is that
bj Hill? Because I would say that's not good enough
for a championship team. They need a DT one. But
because you drafted McKinley, Jackson and Chris Jenkins last year,
(05:49):
kind of that's your second and third round pick. I mean,
are you going to spend another second third rounder on
a similar player? I think if it happens, it would
be first round. It would be Walter Nolan out of
Old Mess. It'd be Derek Men out of Oregon. Guys
that can rush the pass or get upfield, provide some athleticism,
give you an instant impact, and give you something you
don't have of the four guys on the roster right
(06:10):
now in that room. But if you don't get them
at seventeen and you wait, I think you're adding similarly
similarly graded players as Chris Jenkins. Which at that point,
if it's a position that takes a year to develop,
is it really helping you in twenty twenty five. I
don't think it is. So they have to be strategic
if they're going to add to the defensive tackle room,
and maybe a guy if it's not in the first round.
(06:30):
Maybe it's just a guy that can straight up rush
the pass, or maybe it's an end that kicks inside.
Maybe it's an Omar Norman Lot from Tennessee who plays
about two hundred fifty snaps a season for the last
five years in college, and he's on a thirty visit
because they're probably going to answer, why don't you play more?
But your flashes are extremely high and he's probably like
a third, fourth, fifth round or because of that experience
(06:50):
in playtime that I think a guy like that can
help you. But again we're talking about maybe the fifth
defensive tackle. If you wait that.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Long, do you agree with what seems to be the
consens which is edge rusher is deep?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I do I think ed rusher. If you talk to
other draft guys or listening to it, they were applauding
the defensive tackle room the whole process in this draft,
and I was like, yeah, it's good, but I don't
think it's great. I think there's a bunch of guys
that are going in round one, and that's what makes
that class great. But otherwise afterwards it's deeper than it's
been in recent years. But I don't see future starters.
Like we had a first round grade on Milton Williams
(07:25):
in our process in twenty twenty one, so like, I
don't see that guy again. We had a first round
grade on Justin Madabekee. I don't see that guy again
in the mid rounds. Maybe it's DJ Sanders at defensive tackle.
So the opposite is correct. We hurt that d end room.
Our class was good this year, and then the grading
process spits it out and there are twelve, thirteen, fourteen
guys that I think can help you and contribute not
(07:46):
just early but long term eventually be starters. So it
may not have to happen in round one, despite they
might be flacked in the face at seventeen with like, hey,
here's a d ND still there, depending on how they
feel about James Pierce Junior and Green right, each guy
is character and background stuff that has to get figured
out that is above us that we don't even know
how to talk about it unless it happens and they
draft them then we'll have to dive in further and
(08:08):
figure it out. But other than that, is it a
Shamar Stewart, isn't a mikel Williams, This is a Nick Gorton?
Is it a Donovan Izaraku? All these guys to me
are end of the first round type players. But then
you get in the rounds two and three, I think
there are a ton of guys. Whether it's Ashton Jelodi Louisville,
who is probably a third round pick, Landon Jackson Arkansas
is probably a second round pick, and then even further
(08:30):
a Braden Swinson lsu second third round. He's seventy third
on the consensus board right now. Josiah Stewart, who I
mentioned earlier from Michigan probably seen as a third maybe
fourth rounder because he didn't test. There are a ton
of guys this year at descentsive end that I think
can come in, and they have a young room. You
have Joseph Siemles Murphy. Same reasons why I said they
may not draft a defensive tackle in that same range
(08:52):
of an Osaian and Murphy because they believe there's still
some development there. I do think there are guys that
can come in and be a little bit different than
those two and provide a something.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Joe Goodbarry with Us Bengals on the Brain, which you
should watch on YouTube, and by the way, you should
have subscribed to Joe on X as well. I don't
want to watch Geno Stone next year. I'm resigned to
the fact that I'm gonna have to watch Geno Stone
next year, but I would like for someone to eventually
replace Genostone this coming season. Can that guy be had?
And can that guy be had after round one?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I believe all of that can be had, and it
may happen in round one. I think that's probably the
sneaky thing in this class for the Bengals is, hey,
they may just get there and say, you know what,
it's a weird first round. Some prognosticators say there's fifteen
first round guys in this class, which is lower than
normally you get to the twenty two to twenty five
great at first round prospects. If there's only fifteen, you
(09:44):
may get there at seventeen and say, you know what,
just take a guy you think is going to be good.
I don't care about where his great is, and maybe
that is Malachai Starks who was originally thought of as
a top twelve or so player in this class out
of Georgia because he's super young, he's been playing who
was a freshman at Georgia. He's a free safety type,
made a lot of plays. He didn't take that next
(10:05):
step in twenty twenty four that everyone thought he was.
When they're saying he's a top twelve pick and now
he's somewhere around twentieth. I'm a consensus. I still think
he could an appoent later than that. But if the
Bengals say, you know what, we don't care about his testing.
The safety is one of the positions where as the
lowest correlation from athletic testing to future success in the pros,
they may just say, that's our guy. Go back to
(10:25):
January rankings, go back to when our scouts submitted their
notes and numbers. Malki starts, Probably great's pretty high for them,
and I have to remind myself every time we get
in April that they go back to January and look
at those rankings. That's probably closer to how the Bengals
feel now. They don't want the data influence them over
the next few months of the draft process, so I
think Starts is still a sneaky pick at seventeen. I
(10:47):
think nick Emm and Worrie, even though he's more of
a strong safety, so not really if you know, still
in replacement he can do some split safety stuff. So
I don't know if it's a direct fit. But for
the next five years, even worry is. Again he was
twenty years old on so when you watch him, a freak.
He's six three two twenty hit one hundreds percentile testing athletically,
but he's really good on tape two like this, you
(11:08):
think of a big guy, he's just going to be
a physical Cam Chancellor. He's not. He's actually more of
a Tyrone Matthew cover the slot, be really smart, flip
his hits and run and undercut routes and make plays
on the ball. And I like that and I want
that if we're talking the next five years, I don't
know who the playmaker on this defense is, you know,
not Trey Hendrickson for the future, and plus he's thirty
to be thirty one this year. Who is the playmaker
(11:30):
on this defense? Maybe it is a Nicky men morior
for the next five years. I picked seventeen, But if not,
I do like rounds two and three, whether it's Kevin
Winston Junior out of Penn State, Davier Watts out an
Order Dane who gets his hands on the ball consistently,
or Andrew mccoubaugh who's kind of a free safety he
played at center free safety snaps, but kind of a
slack guy too. When he came down and had to
cover out of Texas Lacooba covered really well. But he's
(11:53):
one hundred and eighty five pounds. He's the smallest guy
out of all of them, so maybe he goes a
little bit later. I've seen Lox with them in the
fourth round, but I think Winston and Watts go round two.
I think mccouba is round three, and then after that
it really falls off. So if you're gonna do it
and you're gonna find an upgrade to Gino Stone, it
probably happens in the first three rounds, all right.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Two More one is really more about players they have
on the roster right now, because they're going to run
it back with a lot of corners who I think
individually have shown that they have upside, but collectively, boy,
I've got concerns. And maybe Al Golden gets more out
of these guys. We're talking about a lot of guys
who have been drafted early by this team, and so
(12:31):
there is some upside, it still feels like a really
dangerous approach. Do you share my concern with what it
appears they're doing with respect to the cornerback position.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I do share it, because if you're going to an
al Golden More scheme that he showed a Notre Dame,
they're gonna play more man coverage. I mean that means
you're gonna rely on these guys to win one on
one more often. And while they're athletic and fast, so
maybe that is a better scheme for them, get them
thinking a little bit less and just let them do
their athletic And then Dax Hill's a high end athlete.
(13:02):
DJ Turner's a high end athlete. Can Taylor Brett is
as well. Maybe you need them to think a little
bit less. That makes sense. But at the same time,
as of now, we don't know what any of those
guys are and that's scary. And they've all flashed, they've
all made plays, they've all had individual moments, and I
think DJ Turner last year was on the cusp of
maybe making a statement until he broke his collar bone
(13:22):
or clavic or whatever it was in that Chargers game.
Very good game, but still that's basically the story for
all these guys. They've all had flashes, they've all had
moments in games. It's the one handed interception by Can
Taylor Brett is going to be a highlight that you'll
see forever because it's one of the craziest interceptions they've
ever seen. But consistency wise, they've been terrible from all
those guys, and even the death guys and Mike Hilton
still out there in free agency. So I mean, teams
(13:44):
don't even want the probably their best corner last year.
So you sit here and you go, okay, are they
going to draft the corner? When will it be again?
A ton of young guys that need development from You
can't draft everything, and I don't think this corner class
is as good as last year. Last year week Quenya
and Mitchell and Cooper Degenius twelve graded prospects. We don't
have anyone that touches them, not even Will Johnson, who's
going to test on Monday ten am. We're going to
(14:06):
see his athleticism then. Because I ask some questions about
a speed and agility, and he's more of his own
corner and off zone corner let him read and react anyway.
So I'm not sure he's a great fit. But if
he's there at seventeen, maybe say, you know, screw fit
a little bit. We're gonna get a good player and
we'll figure it out from there. But again probably get
similar how State fans growing, Do we need any more
Michigan corners? Which you know, I get it, but you
(14:27):
take good players right and you figure it out afterwards.
I don't know if they get a corner in this draft,
because I also think they like the depth, or at
least I should say they're intrigued by the depth of
Josh Newton and dj Ivy, So I think at some
point you've got to roll with the young guys you
have at some positions. And if there was a position
I had to pick of, like the pass rushers, the
defensive tackles, and the corners, I would say, you know what,
(14:50):
if I have to roll with one of those groups
and just say I'm not going to add a guy
this year that's going to compete with them, it's going
to be corner because they spent premium picks on all
three of those guys. They're all still young, and they've
all flashed. We can't say that about Murphy or Chris
Jenkins or McKinley Jackson. Some flashes out of Justico's side,
but he's not a one year deal. So I feel
a little bit better about the corner room.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
All right, One more in the first round. How aggressively
would you be looking to trade down?
Speaker 2 (15:13):
If at all, I would completely be looking to trade
on unless I'm sitting there and it's Calvin Banks is
still on the board. You know, you asked me if
it would be a perfect scenario, that would be one
of them where I just say, no, I'm taking a guy. Otherwise,
it's if it is Melaki starts. Let's say, if it
is Nicky mn worry if it is Donovan Jackson or
Gray Zabel on the offensive line or Josh Connery on
(15:35):
the offensive line. This guy they brought in for a
thirty visit on Oregon, who I think probably goes between
twenty eight and forty, so you never get really to
get your hands on him. Maybe he's a good player,
if that means you could pick up an extra third
round pick when you only have six picks, and we're
talking about which position don't we want to address? You know,
do you not want to address running back? And maybe
the strongest running back class in a long time? Do
(15:56):
you not want to address tight end? After Eric All
is not going to be here this year and then
Tanner McLaughlin played like six snaps last year? Is the
tight end room good enough? Do you not want to
address corner? Do you not want to address linebacker? Who
Tremaine pratztill on the roster? So I would love to
get an extra third round pick. And I went back
and looked at similar draft classes where there's only fifteen
(16:17):
to twenty let's say considered a week first round graded class.
You do see those those years where teams will trade
up aggressively to get that last first round guy. Maybe
that's at seventeen, right, Maybe there's a couple of quarterbacks go,
maybe a couple of reaches happen, and there's still two
or three first round graded guys on the board. Now
that could go to ways bangles say we want one
of these guys. We want a first rounder for our
(16:38):
first round pick. Another teammate call and say, we really
want that guy, and here's this third round pick for
to move back four spots. You can still get the
guy you really want. We get the guy we want.
Let's make a deal. I think we're going to see
a lot of trading in that middle to early twenties
portion of the draft. On Day one.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
I could talk to you for the next ninety minutes,
but you have more important things to do. I will
bother you after the draft. You're the best man. Thanks
so much, Thank you boy. Joe Goodbury, Bengals on the Brain,
go watch and Chad Breundle coming up on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
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Speaker 1 (17:45):
This report is sponsored by straight Talk Wireless. It's time
to bring people
Twenty Surge three o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. The
NFL Draft is two weeks from tonight. Round one is
two weeks from tonight. By the way, April twenty fourth,
we are broadcasting from Long Necks in Wilder. You cannot
have a draft without talking with Joe Goodberry Bengals on
the Brain. His YouTube show is absolutely terrific in depth, detailed, nuanced,
(00:23):
and so go watch it. I appreciate the time, Joe.
Let's get started. So if things go the way you
want them to go over the first sixteen picks, who
do you want the Bengals to take with the seventeenth pick?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Ooh, that's a good way to start it. I would
say I'm circling down to my last few guys, and
I would really love Calvin Banks Junior. He's a left
tackle at Texas. We're talking about a five star recruit
twenty one years old, but I think he'd be a
better guard, especially early in his career the way he plays.
I just put on the Michigan game for Bengals on
the Brain, our last episode, and he's taking on Mason
(00:59):
Graham Nneth Grant because they slide the protection a lot
and he ends up inside even playing left tackle, but
he gets Josiah Stewart on another fifteen or so reps,
and man, he has a dominant performance versus all three
of them. He plays low, he plays aggressive, he's strong,
he's got great balance and anchor. I think he'd make
an excellent guard and one of the few guards that
(01:19):
probably hit the ground running as rookies because they don't
tend to perform really well offensive lineman offense defensive lineman
tend to take a year. But I still would do
it and say hey, because we have such a big need,
because I think he'd normally be a top ten pick
in every other class, but it's a pretty strong a
line class. If Kelvin Banks is still there, I would
see that as a home run.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
So what they do at guard is at least to
a degree, a reflection of what they've done with the
position so far in free agency, and they can still
maybe add a guy. Are you surprised that they have
taken the approach they have to this point at that position.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I am, because I want to protect Joe Burrow first
and foremost right, and I think the guard position has
been a sore spot for them since Burrow's been here.
Manh probably even longer than that, since they lost Kevin
Zeitler and you know, twenty seventeen or so. So yeah,
it's it's been an issue for them. But it's funny
because I don't get to my to the end of
the draft process where I feel really strong about my
(02:14):
opinions or these these the grades that the formula fits
out for the work we do on these prospects until
about late March, so it's after free agency, and I
assume the Bengals and NFL teams are ahead of me.
I'm assume they have grades on these guys before that.
So when I get to early April, I go, wow,
this guard class is excellent. There are a ton of
guards in this class. And then I start getting the
(02:35):
feeling as we approach the draft. But the Bengal are
gonna take a care heart at some point, and it
starts to make sense why they didn't go out and
overpace for some of these guys in free agency, like
an Aaron Banks who got crazy contract from the forty
nine ers to the Packers. I don't think he's that
could have a player got a great contract both for
I've got a big contract and preegency. I'm not into
any of those guys. So if the alternative is, well,
(02:56):
we're going to spend a premium pick on at least
one guard and maybe we'll find an other one after
free agency, as Zach Tiler kind of alluded to, or
maybe they draft too, you know, somewhere in this draft.
Because it's that strong. I come home and say, Okay,
this is a long term solution rather than a one
year deal for Kevin Zeitler or a one year deal
for Brandon Shirp, which I would have accepted completely. Don't
get me wrong, but looking long term, this is a
(03:17):
really good class to say we're going to take a guard,
and we're going to take one with a premium pick.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
So if they don't take a Garden round one, I
should feel pretty good still about their chances to get
a guy who can be plugged in and played in
in in the in the last two days. Let me
do that again, I'm sound like I'm moron. So with
the depth of that position, if they don't get a
Garden round one, they can get a guy later on
that could start and play this year.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
No doubt about it. As long as they don't Jackson
Carmen this thing and say all right, we're going to
take someone that's, you know, a fourth fifth round pick
in round two, that they should be all right. I
like the guys that'll be there in round two. I
don't know like some of the fringe first guys like
Great Zabel, I think it's probably gone by the time
they get to forty nine. Maybe that's a trade option.
I think pretty much same for Donovan Jackson on the state,
he probably goes before they pick at forty nine because
(04:06):
he is a true guard and a really good player,
and he played left tackle. Like the teams are gonna
be like, hey, he can kick out there if we
need him. This guy knows what he's doing. But if
you get down to like Tate Ratlich from Georgia, I
do expect he'll be there at forty nine. And that's
a plug and play right guard that played next to
Marius Men's. In fact, his twenty twenty three tape the
first time I was exposed to him because we were
watching men so much. He was excellent in twenty twenty three.
(04:28):
In fact, he probably was the first round guard based
on that tape, and then he wasn't as effective last year,
new right tackle, new center. Jared Wilson being the other
Georgia guy who I think is an instant starter, could
probably play in mcguard even though he played center. He's
got the size of a guard. He's a second or
third rounder. There are a ton of guys here. We've
got ten guys with startuble grades for the interior offensive line,
(04:49):
and I don't expect maybe one, two, maybe it's three
by the time that are gone by the time they
get to forty nine. So we have a ton of
options there in round two and potentially round three.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Of the position where they have the biggest needs, where
can they least afford to wait?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I would say defensive tackle, and defensive tackle is an
interesting one because I want a pass rusher right If
we're saying, if we're trying it with needs, they need
to get more explosive inside, they need to get more
athletic in side. They need some pass rush help. Signing TJ.
Slaton is great for defending the run and giving you
a big body, nose tackle, but for sixty percent of
the game when the other teams throwing the ball, you
need someone to go get the quarterback. And I'm not
(05:27):
sure they have a guy that can do that. Chris
Jenkins was never profiled as a high end pass rusher.
Neither was kim Lee Jackson. I assume they expect those
guys to take steps in year two, But is that enough.
Do you have defensive tackle number one or is that
bj Hill? Because I would say that's not good enough
for a championship team. They need a DT one. But
because you drafted McKinley, Jackson and Chris Jenkins last year,
(05:49):
kind of that's your second and third round pick. I mean,
are you going to spend another second third rounder on
a similar player? I think if it happens, it would
be first round. It would be Walter Nolan out of
Old Mess. It'd be Derek Men out of Oregon. Guys
that can rush the pass or get upfield, provide some athleticism,
give you an instant impact, and give you something you
don't have of the four guys on the roster right
(06:10):
now in that room. But if you don't get them
at seventeen and you wait, I think you're adding similarly
similarly graded players as Chris Jenkins. Which at that point,
if it's a position that takes a year to develop,
is it really helping you in twenty twenty five. I
don't think it is. So they have to be strategic
if they're going to add to the defensive tackle room,
and maybe a guy if it's not in the first round.
(06:30):
Maybe it's just a guy that can straight up rush
the pass, or maybe it's an end that kicks inside.
Maybe it's an Omar Norman Lot from Tennessee who plays
about two hundred fifty snaps a season for the last
five years in college, and he's on a thirty visit
because they're probably going to answer, why don't you play more?
But your flashes are extremely high and he's probably like
a third, fourth, fifth round or because of that experience
(06:50):
in playtime that I think a guy like that can
help you. But again we're talking about maybe the fifth
defensive tackle. If you wait that.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Long, do you agree with what seems to be the
consens which is edge rusher is deep?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I do I think ed rusher. If you talk to
other draft guys or listening to it, they were applauding
the defensive tackle room the whole process in this draft,
and I was like, yeah, it's good, but I don't
think it's great. I think there's a bunch of guys
that are going in round one, and that's what makes
that class great. But otherwise afterwards it's deeper than it's
been in recent years. But I don't see future starters.
Like we had a first round grade on Milton Williams
(07:25):
in our process in twenty twenty one, so like, I
don't see that guy again. We had a first round
grade on Justin Madabekee. I don't see that guy again
in the mid rounds. Maybe it's DJ Sanders at defensive tackle.
So the opposite is correct. We hurt that d end room.
Our class was good this year, and then the grading
process spits it out and there are twelve, thirteen, fourteen
guys that I think can help you and contribute not
(07:46):
just early but long term eventually be starters. So it
may not have to happen in round one, despite they
might be flacked in the face at seventeen with like, hey,
here's a d ND still there, depending on how they
feel about James Pierce Junior and Green right, each guy
is character and background stuff that has to get figured
out that is above us that we don't even know
how to talk about it unless it happens and they
draft them then we'll have to dive in further and
(08:08):
figure it out. But other than that, is it a
Shamar Stewart, isn't a mikel Williams, This is a Nick Gorton?
Is it a Donovan Izaraku? All these guys to me
are end of the first round type players. But then
you get in the rounds two and three, I think
there are a ton of guys. Whether it's Ashton Jelodi Louisville,
who is probably a third round pick, Landon Jackson Arkansas
is probably a second round pick, and then even further
(08:30):
a Braden Swinson lsu second third round. He's seventy third
on the consensus board right now. Josiah Stewart, who I
mentioned earlier from Michigan probably seen as a third maybe
fourth rounder because he didn't test. There are a ton
of guys this year at descentsive end that I think
can come in, and they have a young room. You
have Joseph Siemles Murphy. Same reasons why I said they
may not draft a defensive tackle in that same range
(08:52):
of an Osaian and Murphy because they believe there's still
some development there. I do think there are guys that
can come in and be a little bit different than
those two and provide a something.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Joe Goodbarry with Us Bengals on the Brain, which you
should watch on YouTube, and by the way, you should
have subscribed to Joe on X as well. I don't
want to watch Geno Stone next year. I'm resigned to
the fact that I'm gonna have to watch Geno Stone
next year, but I would like for someone to eventually
replace Genostone this coming season. Can that guy be had?
And can that guy be had after round one?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I believe all of that can be had, and it
may happen in round one. I think that's probably the
sneaky thing in this class for the Bengals is, hey,
they may just get there and say, you know what,
it's a weird first round. Some prognosticators say there's fifteen
first round guys in this class, which is lower than
normally you get to the twenty two to twenty five
great at first round prospects. If there's only fifteen, you
(09:44):
may get there at seventeen and say, you know what,
just take a guy you think is going to be good.
I don't care about where his great is, and maybe
that is Malachai Starks who was originally thought of as
a top twelve or so player in this class out
of Georgia because he's super young, he's been playing who
was a freshman at Georgia. He's a free safety type,
made a lot of plays. He didn't take that next
(10:05):
step in twenty twenty four that everyone thought he was.
When they're saying he's a top twelve pick and now
he's somewhere around twentieth. I'm a consensus. I still think
he could an appoent later than that. But if the
Bengals say, you know what, we don't care about his testing.
The safety is one of the positions where as the
lowest correlation from athletic testing to future success in the pros,
they may just say, that's our guy. Go back to
(10:25):
January rankings, go back to when our scouts submitted their
notes and numbers. Malki starts, Probably great's pretty high for them,
and I have to remind myself every time we get
in April that they go back to January and look
at those rankings. That's probably closer to how the Bengals
feel now. They don't want the data influence them over
the next few months of the draft process, so I
think Starts is still a sneaky pick at seventeen. I
(10:47):
think nick Emm and Worrie, even though he's more of
a strong safety, so not really if you know, still
in replacement he can do some split safety stuff. So
I don't know if it's a direct fit. But for
the next five years, even worry is. Again he was
twenty years old on so when you watch him, a freak.
He's six three two twenty hit one hundreds percentile testing athletically,
but he's really good on tape two like this, you
(11:08):
think of a big guy, he's just going to be
a physical Cam Chancellor. He's not. He's actually more of
a Tyrone Matthew cover the slot, be really smart, flip
his hits and run and undercut routes and make plays
on the ball. And I like that and I want
that if we're talking the next five years, I don't
know who the playmaker on this defense is, you know,
not Trey Hendrickson for the future, and plus he's thirty
to be thirty one this year. Who is the playmaker
(11:30):
on this defense? Maybe it is a Nicky men morior
for the next five years. I picked seventeen, But if not,
I do like rounds two and three, whether it's Kevin
Winston Junior out of Penn State, Davier Watts out an
Order Dane who gets his hands on the ball consistently,
or Andrew mccoubaugh who's kind of a free safety he
played at center free safety snaps, but kind of a
slack guy too. When he came down and had to
cover out of Texas Lacooba covered really well. But he's
(11:53):
one hundred and eighty five pounds. He's the smallest guy
out of all of them, so maybe he goes a
little bit later. I've seen Lox with them in the
fourth round, but I think Winston and Watts go round two.
I think mccouba is round three, and then after that
it really falls off. So if you're gonna do it
and you're gonna find an upgrade to Gino Stone, it
probably happens in the first three rounds, all right.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Two More one is really more about players they have
on the roster right now, because they're going to run
it back with a lot of corners who I think
individually have shown that they have upside, but collectively, boy,
I've got concerns. And maybe Al Golden gets more out
of these guys. We're talking about a lot of guys
who have been drafted early by this team, and so
(12:31):
there is some upside, it still feels like a really
dangerous approach. Do you share my concern with what it
appears they're doing with respect to the cornerback position.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I do share it, because if you're going to an
al Golden More scheme that he showed a Notre Dame,
they're gonna play more man coverage. I mean that means
you're gonna rely on these guys to win one on
one more often. And while they're athletic and fast, so
maybe that is a better scheme for them, get them
thinking a little bit less and just let them do
their athletic And then Dax Hill's a high end athlete.
(13:02):
DJ Turner's a high end athlete. Can Taylor Brett is
as well. Maybe you need them to think a little
bit less. That makes sense. But at the same time,
as of now, we don't know what any of those
guys are and that's scary. And they've all flashed, they've
all made plays, they've all had individual moments, and I
think DJ Turner last year was on the cusp of
maybe making a statement until he broke his collar bone
(13:22):
or clavic or whatever it was in that Chargers game.
Very good game, but still that's basically the story for
all these guys. They've all had flashes, they've all had
moments in games. It's the one handed interception by Can
Taylor Brett is going to be a highlight that you'll
see forever because it's one of the craziest interceptions they've
ever seen. But consistency wise, they've been terrible from all
those guys, and even the death guys and Mike Hilton
still out there in free agency. So I mean, teams
(13:44):
don't even want the probably their best corner last year.
So you sit here and you go, okay, are they
going to draft the corner? When will it be again?
A ton of young guys that need development from You
can't draft everything, and I don't think this corner class
is as good as last year. Last year week Quenya
and Mitchell and Cooper Degenius twelve graded prospects. We don't
have anyone that touches them, not even Will Johnson, who's
going to test on Monday ten am. We're going to
(14:06):
see his athleticism then. Because I ask some questions about
a speed and agility, and he's more of his own
corner and off zone corner let him read and react anyway.
So I'm not sure he's a great fit. But if
he's there at seventeen, maybe say, you know, screw fit
a little bit. We're gonna get a good player and
we'll figure it out from there. But again probably get
similar how State fans growing, Do we need any more
Michigan corners? Which you know, I get it, but you
(14:27):
take good players right and you figure it out afterwards.
I don't know if they get a corner in this draft,
because I also think they like the depth, or at
least I should say they're intrigued by the depth of
Josh Newton and dj Ivy, So I think at some
point you've got to roll with the young guys you
have at some positions. And if there was a position
I had to pick of, like the pass rushers, the
defensive tackles, and the corners, I would say, you know what,
(14:50):
if I have to roll with one of those groups
and just say I'm not going to add a guy
this year that's going to compete with them, it's going
to be corner because they spent premium picks on all
three of those guys. They're all still young, and they've
all flashed. We can't say that about Murphy or Chris
Jenkins or McKinley Jackson. Some flashes out of Justico's side,
but he's not a one year deal. So I feel
a little bit better about the corner room.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
All right, One more in the first round. How aggressively
would you be looking to trade down?
Speaker 2 (15:13):
If at all, I would completely be looking to trade
on unless I'm sitting there and it's Calvin Banks is
still on the board. You know, you asked me if
it would be a perfect scenario, that would be one
of them where I just say, no, I'm taking a guy. Otherwise,
it's if it is Melaki starts. Let's say, if it
is Nicky mn worry if it is Donovan Jackson or
Gray Zabel on the offensive line or Josh Connery on
(15:35):
the offensive line. This guy they brought in for a
thirty visit on Oregon, who I think probably goes between
twenty eight and forty, so you never get really to
get your hands on him. Maybe he's a good player,
if that means you could pick up an extra third
round pick when you only have six picks, and we're
talking about which position don't we want to address? You know,
do you not want to address running back? And maybe
the strongest running back class in a long time? Do
(15:56):
you not want to address tight end? After Eric All
is not going to be here this year and then
Tanner McLaughlin played like six snaps last year? Is the
tight end room good enough? Do you not want to
address corner? Do you not want to address linebacker? Who
Tremaine pratztill on the roster? So I would love to
get an extra third round pick. And I went back
and looked at similar draft classes where there's only fifteen
(16:17):
to twenty let's say considered a week first round graded class.
You do see those those years where teams will trade
up aggressively to get that last first round guy. Maybe
that's at seventeen, right, Maybe there's a couple of quarterbacks go,
maybe a couple of reaches happen, and there's still two
or three first round graded guys on the board. Now
that could go to ways bangles say we want one
of these guys. We want a first rounder for our
(16:38):
first round pick. Another teammate call and say, we really
want that guy, and here's this third round pick for
to move back four spots. You can still get the
guy you really want. We get the guy we want.
Let's make a deal. I think we're going to see
a lot of trading in that middle to early twenties
portion of the draft. On Day one.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
I could talk to you for the next ninety minutes,
but you have more important things to do. I will
bother you after the draft. You're the best man. Thanks
so much, Thank you boy. Joe Goodbury, Bengals on the Brain,
go watch and Chad Breundle coming up on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
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seventy one seventy five accident on the ramp to Kyle's Lane.
That one blocking off the left shoulder on the ramp.
(17:37):
He's found US twenty two. It's an accident near Willow
Pond Boulevard. Left lane blocked off there on that Ezelak
with traffic.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
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