June 10, 2025 • 39 mins
Fresh from day one of Bengals minicamp, Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us to discuss Shemar Stewart's comments about his contract situation and more.
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Podcasts of The Mo Egger Radio Show are a service of Longnecks Sports Grill.
Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen in oh Man, you are listening right
now to a very very happy, very very grateful man.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Good afternoon. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. My name is Moeger.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Thank you for listening right when the shine had war
off from last night's Ohio Cup clincher. Not that I
wasn't still basking in the aftermath, but you know, professionally,
I started to turn the page. Okay, what about today's show,
and then dropped from heaven by.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
The sports talk.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Radio gods, we have Schamar Stewart versus the Bengals, and
even better, this happened on a Tuesday, so here he's
forced to talk about this now with.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Me covering Schamar Stewart versus.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
The Bengals for the Athletic, Theathletic dot Com and the
Growler Podcast, our friend Paul Dayner Jr. It is awesome
to have you. I am so excited.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's great. Let me just tell you what.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
The best just dropped from heaven by the sports talk
radio gods.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
Can we get one day in the middle of June
like this? No, just one time. Can I just be like, oh,
nothing weird to report today? Kind of a very simple day,
very calm practice. Nobody's yelling at management. No, we have
like multiple people. This is the best, and I mean.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
We have Joe.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
We talked to Joe Burrow today. No one even cares
about that anymore.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Irrelevant the only day the five years that Joe Burrow
has been with the Bengals that anything they get out
of his mouth is totally irrelevant.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
Although knew he had a good joke. Last year they
had two people holding out and this year there's just one.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
So that's good going in the right direction. It's a joke, mo, okay,
how it's like this all right?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
I doubt there's anybody who is uninitiated, but let's just
do a reset for anybody who's maybe been at work
all day and they want to know what's going on.
So the Bengals today, day one of miniicamp right o
Trey Hendrickson, which was not unexpected. Shamar Stewart is still
not practicing, but he is there, and today he talked
with you.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Guys, yes, and he sounded off.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
He sounded off, yeah, I mean he he essentially he
essentially voiced his displeasure with the organization.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I mean, there was no real holding back, I mean.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
A part of the Bengals. He just got here six weeks.
He doesn't have any contract yet. He just got here,
and he's like, let me tell y'all something.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
He says, you know, he says, let's see.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
He says, he's not asking for anything that hasn't been
done before. Y'all just want to win arguments more than
winning more games. Just got here. He's honestly pretty observant.
Quickly observe it, dud dude learns quick quick.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
He called it.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
He called this something very simple to fix. Its kind
of disappointment to disappointing. Excuse me, and you know, you
just he's totally just disenchanted with everything in this conversation.
And he said, I can't really say what I really
want to say. It's their contract. They can do with
what they want with it. He is there is he's
(03:16):
upset about language inside of the contract. That has to
do with avoiding future guarantees. At some point, they didn't
like language in the waiver originally that a lot of
people sign, these rookies. He's not the only unsigned rookie
didn't like language and that and that led to this
(03:37):
not participating, saying he wants to participate, but deciding, you
know what, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna fire off
how I feel and I get it. Here's here's my
side on this. Because I think everybody is seeing it
through different views. I think everybody's to blame.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
But I I.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
Will say this, I understand him not knowing how to
handle this situation. He's a twenty one year old kid
who never really thought he would ever be This was
supposed to be simple. I don't know anything about the
specific type of guidance he's getting from an agent or
what they would have in his agenda. And I don't
know why the Bengals are so dug in on trying
to take this fight out and this precedent out on
(04:17):
Shamar Stewart, other than they feel like they need to.
I probably would have advised him not to do this.
Like to me, it's this is your home, this is
your work home. You just got here, right, you may
feel this way. Would keep that to yourself for now,
because guess what, it's probably gonna happen like next month.
(04:39):
Sometime you'll figure it out and sign and you'll be
there to begin a training camp and you'll wish you
didn't say all that stuff. Now, maybe not, Maybe he'll
be like, I'm not gonna sit here and just take
this and let them try to take money away. So
I hear both sides. I think this is probably not
the greatest way. That wouldn't have been what I would
have done. But I'm not in a situation where they, yeah,
you feel like they're trying to take money away from me.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I just cannot believe.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
This. That's the easiest thing in contracts in the NFL today.
I cannot believe this has reached this level where the
guy you just picked is just throwing it shots at
everyone in the organization as high up as it goes.
Already already he doesn't even know what the shoulder pads
(05:27):
feel like yet.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Drafted six weeks ago.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
So I had a handful of thoughts. Number one was,
if I didn't know any better, I watched the video
Mike Petrellia.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I watched his version, Yeah Trags.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
He's sitting at his locker, and if I didn't know
any better, I would think that was a player who
had been here for four years, who had reached a
point of exasperation during the course of his NFL career
with the Cincinnati Bengals. That's obviously not the case. He's
been here for six weeks, he hasn't signed his contract yet,
So there's number one. Number two. I know, realistically this
wasn't gonna happen, but I kept waiting for a teammate
(06:03):
to come up and go, dude, like Schamar, come on,
you know, not make a but like I kept waiting
for like a veteran teammate to look at that and
come over and.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Go, hey, let's uh, let's get out of here.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
We got a meeting to go to, Like, I mean,
just because the more he talked, the worse it got.
And I love it because I'm in sports talk radio.
But the more he talked, the less good came out
of it, right, Yeah, So I kept waiting for that,
and then there was just something interesting. Twice we've had
Trey Hendrickson's stand on a Cincinnati Bengals practice field and
(06:36):
air out the organization. And then we had Shamar Stewart,
who hasn't signed his contract yet, sitting inside the locker
room inside the stadium, at his locker that the Bengals
have given him and he's got to like go off
to a meeting after that I guess and just air
out the franchise and the dude has barely been here.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
That is remarkable. Yeah, that is a remarkable visual. Yeah
it is. I'll just say that.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
I mean, I feel like I don't know what there's
immaturity at play here because he's a young kid, and
which is.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Why I kept waiting for a veteran teammate to come
up and go. But he's in the middle of this, like,
no one knows what he's saying. Sure, right, you don't
know he could be in their view. No, if you're
not in there. I mean there's a little huddle around
him that lasted.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
You can't know.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
I mean, you couldn't hear even in the outside of
the huddle. It's hard to hear what was actually being
said in there, So no one knows what's going on.
And I'm guessing no one approached him with like, hey,
don't say anything, or maybe there was people saying, like
you've talked about stars, say I'm doing what's right or
whatever that exact quote was. I don't I'm not pulling.
I don't have a directly in front of me. But
(07:43):
you know, maybe he feels vindicated in things that he's
hearing behind closed doors, and so he's just gonna say
what he wants to say. It's just not great because
because my point in this is that no one will
remember this, and I don't I think if he would
have been quiet here, I still think no one would
remember this, right because he if he shows up at
(08:05):
training camp, no one would remember that, oh yeah, he
didn't participate in mini camp.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Right.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
And again I'm gonna continue to reiterate what I often do.
There's just, especially for linemen, there's just not a lot
happening out there.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Would it be better to these out there?
Speaker 5 (08:20):
Of course, until the pads come on and it gets
real in training camp, I don't think this is an impact.
But now it feels like it's escalated to this point
where now this guy just feels like he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Like it here.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Yeah, where it went from a little annoyance in your
contract thing that's like, okay, there's still a bunch of
guys that aren't signed, we can work this out to
like I don't like it here is what his body
language and a lot of his words are saying, Yeah,
he just got raped number seven set overall, and the
(08:51):
one thing was like, look, I'm not saying he's not
a good kid. I think he's in a tough spot here.
But it was like, okay, we doesn't have production, Okay,
but now we have this. So it's like the same
problems that you were having with Trey Hendrickson's situation, minus
the sacks.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Okay. So I don't know, like.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
All this over what over some setting, some precedent off,
some void language, okay, and maybe the Bengals have decided, Man,
it is really important right now, Like this is the
moment we have to Maybe maybe it shouldn't be.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Here's what I do know. If you're not practicing, maybe
you shouldn't have a locker. And if you don't have
a locker because you're not changing into anything, then you
can't sit there and say bad things about us.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Problem solved. Yeah, no contract, no locker.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Yeah right, you get a locker, you get some stuff
like why do you have a locker? You're not dressing
for practice, didn't do anything out there, Why do you
have a locker. If you don't have a locker, you
can't sit an hour locker and dump all over us.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
I just we it just seems like, you know, we
talked to about the Bengals being up to the task
this offseason. A monumentous off season in terms of the
challenge in front of them, Right, they had to do
so much, and they did some things. You know, they
get t and Jamar done and that's great, but like
(10:26):
they have not been up to the task on so
much of this. It's like this, so much of this
is how is this? It's the lingering. It's that it
goes on and you had the ability to nip some
things in the bud and avoid the distractions. It's the
same conversation we had last year with Jamar Chase. It's
the same conversation we've had this off season with Trey Hendrickson.
(10:46):
I'd throw in the Jermaine Pratt situation into this too,
of just letting that unnecessarily linger and kind of hold him.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Hostage for god knows why.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
And now this thing over just fighting with your first
round pick over this stuff. It's just it's the lingering
and the constant battling and bickering over this stuff that
it's just it's pervasive and it affects more than the
guy that it's happening to.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
With respect to Schamar specifically, It's just not a good
way to start a new relationship. No.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I mean, he may end up.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Having a terrific career and sign a second contract and be,
you know, a guy who's here for a decade, and
it may be awesome, but this is just not the
way to get started with with a guy who they
obviously view as central. We took him in the first
round at a position of need where they, you know,
have a guy that they're in another standoff with, Like
(11:42):
it's I've watched Bengals players show dissatisfaction. We've witnessed you know, holdouts.
We're not really in that era anymore. I guess we're
not supposed to be. I've not seen anything like this.
I've heard the holdouts agent sound off. You know, we
all remember the nineties and early two thousands when invariably,
you know, the agent would speak on behalf of the player.
The player was nowhere to be seen. Here, the player
(12:04):
is very much to be seen.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
He's right there, yeah, right there.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I said this to you about the Trey Hendrickson thing
four weeks ago. I had never seen anything like that before.
I certainly have not seen anything like this. It's remarkable
and it's such a bad way, regardless of where you
want to lay the blame. It's such a bad way
to start what has to be a good working relationship.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
Yeah, I mean, it's a bad taste in your mouth immediately,
even if he signed it to you know, tomorrow, is
he gonna come back and say, oh, I didn't feel
any of that. I was just making that stuff. Well,
I don't really really have these problems. I don't really
feel this way. I'm not really you know, everything that
I was doing and saying, ah, that's not really how
I feel. You know, it's out there now, which and
that's fine if that's it's just public and maybe there
(12:47):
were there's a lot of people that feel that way.
The good I mean, the you know, I do think
that it's it's easier for the team and everybody to
kind of sluff that stuff, this stuff off a little
bit more than last year. But god, the it's the
ultimate Okay, if there was a lesson to be learned
from last year, is like, let's just forget all that stuff.
(13:08):
And they haven't been able to because just in the
it's like the easy stuff, not calling Trey Hendrickson situation easy,
but like when you get to a certain point, you
know what the decision you need to make is. It's
A or B, and the and the inability to just
make the decision and move on. It's just it hangs
out there and it makes so many of these things
just drag out and cause days like this. Although this
(13:29):
was fairly unprecedented.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
So does does the sixteenth overall pick Walter Nolan signing
his contract with the Cardinals shape this in any way,
shape or form.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
Maybe, I don't know. I love talking about contract language
in June Mo. It's my favorite. Yeah, absolutely. I mean
we're we're in weird, uncharted territory here with this, at
this point where there's this thing. So I don't know
that that changes that it changed Maybe maybe it changes
the view of one side or the other.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I just don't know.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
At this point, I can't sit here and say that
I have a feel for what that's.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Gonna how it's gonna affect it.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
Because this is a guy who clearly sounds different than
most rookies that don't haven't signed yet sound This isn't
like your standard oh waiting for the slot to come
through conversation.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
I do have some things to ask you about that
don't necessarily have anything to do with Shamar Stewart, but
not yet. Nineteen minutes after three o'clock, He's Paul Tanner Junior.
Read his work The Athletic dot Com and catch the
podcast The Growler multiple times per week. As we say,
where you get your podcasts, including YouTube. Twenty minutes after
(14:40):
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This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
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Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and the Growling podcast
is here till four o'clock. Bengals had a day one
of minicam today and some stuff happened on the field.
I guess that we'll discuss that much right now. Shamar
Stewart is digging in in his battle with the Bengals.
(15:47):
That's made waves today and it's been a lot of
fun for me.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Schamar intimated that the star players are on his side.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, do you believe him?
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (15:59):
Yeah, that would be a weird thing to make up
or know that you even could make up when you
just got here, when you just got here.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
What he did today though, was weird. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
I would think that there's probably, you know, that could
be as simple as somebody like Jamar or t or
Trey being like, man, fight for yourself, fight for what
you believe in, like a passing comment. It could be
a something as simple as that. It could be something
as large as a lunch meeting with all of them
gathering around, you know, like like I that could be
(16:31):
when you're talking about something a twenty one year old
kid says, surrounding by media like that in that situation
for the first time in his life. The background on
it is hard, you know, to know specifically what would
warrant him saying that, But yeah, you would think that
there was probably there. I don't think it's something would
make up.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
So they're putting this language in a contract, and they
want to put this language in his contract, the sort
of language they haven't included in the deals for any
of their other first round picks. Yeah, do people with
the club suggest to you why they want to do this,
because it feels it feels from out of left field.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
It would be helpful to know their side, right and
there's nothing there is There is nothing there, no and
and no one. You know, there are ways to do that,
but there, you know, there is nothing there right now
in terms of help me understand why you would want
to do it.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
You know, there's nothing suggesting that they think there's maybe
a character issue or a professionalism issue, or some sort
of issue with Shamar that is exclusive to him that
they want to protect themselves from by including language they
haven't with other picks.
Speaker 5 (17:49):
I mean, the only thing is the nature of who
he is as a prospect being raw maybe percent as
a risk reward, high risk, you know, chance of busting
situation in terms of just the lack of production. Maybe
it's fear over that, you know, wanting to hedge a
little bit more because of the nature of who he
of who he was in college. Then don't take him right, right, Like,
(18:12):
if that's what this is about, then then then he
shouldn't have been your pick.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Is there anything that would suggest that if Shamar Stewart
had come off the board at sixteen and they take
any other player at seventeen, that they're putting the same language.
Speaker 5 (18:23):
In no way to know that, Yeah, I have no
way to know that. I mean, there is just isn't.
I mean, it's to speculate it, you'd be speculation, right,
I don't.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I don't know because some have taken this is this
is just how the Bengals want to do their contracts
moving forward, and it just it feels like a weird
It just feels like a weird thing to just decide
we're going to start doing this year when we're taking
a player who is drafted in a comparable place to
players we have taken recently. Yeah, Shamar Stewart's dad said
(18:53):
in a podcast, I think a week ago, Look, you
want to set a new precedent whin the Super Bowl
this year, then do it next year with the guy
you take thirty seven and overall that would make sense.
Or doing it with a guy if you really stink
and you draft in the top five or top ten,
do it then. Like it's so I think what a
lot of us have done after we have gotten done
kind of just laughing at the absurdity of the situation.
(19:15):
Is like, all right, what is there specifically about Shamar
Stewart that compels the Bengals to do something differently than
they've done with any other player who has been drafted,
especially when they have drafted close to seventeen in the
first round in recent years.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
The I mean to me, it goes back to what
I was saying. I think it's the it's the bust potential,
you know, the chance of if he doesn't start becoming
the athlete that he was, if he is one and
a half sack per year guy, you know, if that
is the case, versus becoming, you know, growing into what
(19:51):
they think he can be as a player. The ability
to not be stuck on that money. They feel like
it's a higher risk right now than in previous That's
that's the day diference between him and others and I.
You know, you could have probably made a similar argument
about Marius mims.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Raw a little bit of a project, yeah, not a
lot of experience.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Yeah, but also you know you could have had. It's
just that it goes back to me. It also goes
back to though, you know, just the willingness to sign
the waiver and just go practice by the player, which
meant so maybe that is part of it where it's like, okay, well,
if you're willing to go sign and practice and you're
you're about the right stuff and you you land there,
(20:32):
nobody knows if you felt this way. I just you know,
I think he I I just I don't know what
to say about it anymore, right, Like what do you
what do you say? Yeah, it's ridiculous. You could just
sit and laugh the way I do. That's what I've
been doing. It's ridiculous that we're talking about language and
(20:56):
contracts and deferring guarantees in June with the guy who
just got here. It just for everybody involved, there's there's
just there's no reason for it to be at this level.
There's nothing.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Maybe the Bengals don't care, maybe most listening to this
conversation don't care. But what is more damaging to the
bengals reputation what they're doing with Trey Hendrickson or the
Shamar Stewart situation.
Speaker 5 (21:27):
Probably the Shamar Stewart thing, because it looks more petty
and it looks more like, man, they're just impossible to
deal with you. We've made the argument about not signing Trey,
but yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
See the basic premise of their position.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
Like creating Trey Hendrickson was the number two thing of
my ten things the Bengals need to do this offseason, right,
Like we there's a real argument to be made for
moving on from the guy who's turning thirty one at
that position this year and not paying him the top
of the market. Like I think you can make football,
you know the way it's gone down obviously, and compile
(22:01):
with everything else it's not great. But I think this
just feels petty and silly, and it's that they're just
gonna fight you tooth and nail on every single thing,
no matter who you are, even if your first round
pick who just got here in a slotted contract. That
should be easy. So yeah, I think that is more
damaging to reputation than something that you can you can
make football arguments about and see where they're coming from.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Many have said over the years that the Bengals care
more about winning negotiations than they do football games. That
has been something that has been lobbed against the Bengals
for decades. To have a guy come in and say
pretty much the same thing when he was drafted six
weeks ago is extraordinarily striking.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, maybe he is talking to the stars.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
I mean really like, because those are the people that
would say that is a line that has been spit
out about the Bengals for a long time. Twenty one
year old kid who just got here doesn't just manufacture that.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
So that's what I'm kind of curious. Like someone says
that to him.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Someone someone says that to him, someone who matters said
that to him. Yeah, and it could be his agent, sure, right,
I mean that would that sounds like the type of
thing that an agent would say. I mean, and probably,
and there's a lot of agents that have a lot
the vast majority probably, But like I I'm just saying
(23:23):
that's that's where that's something like that more than likely
comes from.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Wow, you know there's other stuff. I promise you.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Joe Burrow talked today, mo Joe Burrow talked today and
acknowledged that the Trey Hendrickson situation is a distraction.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, and that's like the second thing we're going to
talk about. Yeah, it's another there's another distraction. Uh, all right,
Well we'll get a break in. Paul Danner Junior's with
this from the When do we get to talk about
the Ohio Cup? You know, we can do that next
if you want.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
No, No, I'm here. No, I mean, I just I
just you know, I'm excited. I love the Ohio Cup.
How could you not?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
The question now tonight is like, is there a little
bit of a hangover? Oh?
Speaker 5 (24:04):
Oh, okay, hangover?
Speaker 3 (24:05):
What happens do the Reds sort of you know, burst
through because they're riding that afterglow or a little bit
of a hangover.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
And then from a guardian's perspective, what do you play for.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Twenty six away from four o'clock sports headlines and more? Next,
Paul Tanner Juniors. Here, This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Sincy three sixty with Tony Pike. If we want to
move on, they'd have to keep going and bustin Elmore.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
I think you should continue.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Let me keep going there Sincy three sixty tomorrow which
twelve News on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
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Yours for Life kelseyshev dot com. With the champagne still
being soaked up from the visiting clubhouse in Cleveland, the
Reds are preparing to take on the Guardians tonight, game
two of their three game series. Andrew Abbot's going to
pitch against Slade scone six forty tonight seven hundred WLW.
(25:38):
Starting lineup this evening. TJ Friedel is leading off in center.
Lux's dhing Ellie's at short cees third, Tyler Stevenson is
catching Will Benson and left Spencer Stewart first. Jake Freeley,
after a big night last night's in right field, hitting eighth.
Matt McLain is playing second base and batting nine. Florence
on the road against Windy City tonight, and the Bengals
(25:59):
held day one of minicamp today. I'm sorry, really quick.
Florence is hosting Wendy City, so you can go to
that game. Don't drive to Chicago to go watch the
Alls tonight. They're home six forty two, first pitch. I
don't want to give out bum information. The Bengals held
day one of minicamp today. Trey Hendrickson was not there.
(26:20):
Schamar Stewart was there but not practicing.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Because he's upset stuff. I can tell you.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Really want to talk about things that have nothing to
do with Shamar Stewart anything else. I just I'm just
over I'm just over all of this. The practice today,
did anything interesting happen? Very little Okay.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
Previous weeks we're talking about the competitiveness, right, it felt
like it ended, And I said, when did it start?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
It was very very slow, very slow.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
Today. Not a whole lot that that really happened today.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Okay, Joe Burrow talked, Yes, Yes, anything interesting from Joe today.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
You know a little bit.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
I think it's just sort of you know, business as usual,
a little bit with him where he talks about, you know,
his health and the risk and that he still works
through it and working on spin rate and still you know,
trying to work on that, but feeling like he has
(27:24):
a feel for what he needs to do to get
through the year. I I just think he feels like
he's in It's almost like he's trying not to jinx it,
you know. He just feels like he's in a really
good place, the best place he's probably been at this point.
(27:45):
And so there's a okay, feels like, gosh, got your
guys out there and something.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
And I know I mentioned this last week.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
I'm writing this story on Dann Pitcher in year two,
and I was gathering a little bit more on it today.
It will be out soon, I promise, I promise. It's
mostly done. I got time other things keep pushing the
good stories back. Mo. I don't want it to be
this way. This is probably where a lot of my
frustration comes from. I'm like, I'd love to talk about
football stuff. Don't you like talking about football stuff?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Not in June, no September through January? Hell yeah, yeah,
get a lawyer on the phone, let's go.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
And so.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
But I think him talking about this being the first
time they felt like they haven't had to get a
new guy into the mix or work on some new
aspect of something, and just the general continuity that is
happening right now really has them feeling like they're in
a great place offensively, then the guard thing will work
itself out. But like there's just everybody you talk to
(28:47):
involved in this offense feels great about where they are,
the adjustments there they are able to tweak to see,
you know, how they learned from all the personnel that
is back this year, and the way that they can
build better around them, whether it be tweaking the running
game to build better around Chase Brown and what his
skill set is to get SICKI to Yoshabash, having a
(29:11):
better understanding of how he can be used in him
being clearly bigger, stronger, faster, Twitchyre being used I think
the t Higgins use last week and feeling like they
have so many more answers and year two for Dan
and all of that stuff. You can just sense that
when Burrow was talking about it today of just man,
(29:32):
you just feel like you're just in a really good
place offensively with what they were coming off of last year,
and so that they have answers even if there's injuries,
even if there's which they're inevitably there will be, I think,
feeling like they have a lot of answers that they
can get to and just being as prepared as they
could be right now to do exactly what they haven't done,
and that's start fast.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
The Bengals made it official today. Jermaine Pratt is being released.
This is something we've talked about for five months now,
months to release?
Speaker 4 (30:02):
Cool?
Speaker 5 (30:03):
What do we do?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
What is happening? They turn him into a sympathetic figure.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
Yeah, where it's you essentially hold this guy hostage. Okay,
you you want to wait until after the draft?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Undersid? I get it? Like, Yeah, first of all, he's
not in your plans.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
Wasn't in your plans in January, the same way he
wasn't on Monday.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Not in your plans. You know you can.
Speaker 5 (30:26):
It's not about where, it's not about distribution of money
or any of that. You knew what you were gonna do.
You're gonna try to get Okay, try to get a trade.
No one is taking that money for Jermaine track. Nobody
was doing that, right, and they knew that the moment
that there was the idea that Jermaine has requested a trade. No,
you guys just said go find a trade for yourself
and see if someone will take on your contract and
(30:48):
get you the money for you.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Okay, and okay, you want to.
Speaker 5 (30:53):
Hold on to something that you didn't have to bring
him back into the mix and be hey, go go
get him come. Well, good to have you back, Jermaine.
Is that what was gonna happen if if you really
didn't get a Okay, So let's just say that you're
keeping that alive. Okay, But the moment you draft Barrett Carter,
the move should it should have been the Bengals select
Barrett Carter and released your main prep. Right, You've you've
(31:14):
signed linebackers, you've traded, you've you've drafted to.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
What is happening. There's no reason to do that.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
It's okay whatever, whatever your reason is, it doesn't matter.
It becomes it becames you. This guy doesn't deserve this.
He deserves to be able to move on with his
life and go find his team. You already caught. You
know you're not gonna do it before free agency where
it's easier for him to find a landing place where
he can go play. Okay, that's your right, you can
do it that way. I'm sure the player hates it.
(31:41):
I'm sure a lot of players see that treatment and
don't like seeing that happen to a friend of theirs.
But it's like, it doesn't have to be this way,
and I feel like he is a guy for his sours.
It went for him last year, and you know everything
that happened that went wrong last year on that defense
he did. He didn't deserve that. It's nice to say
(32:03):
thank you Jermaine for all that you did. You know
what a better way to say thank you would have
been to let him go the moment after the drafter earlier, I.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Did feel like I mentioned he kind of became a
sympathetic figure when you know it was out there that
they're officially going to release him, which we all knew
they were going to do. I kind of felt like
Bengals fans spent more time talking about some of the
moments that Jermaine authored here. I mean, I said on
my show yesterday, is a handful of athletes in this town.
Sam Hubbard's one of them two that when you mentioned
their name, your mind instantly goes to a specific play,
(32:32):
And with Jermaine, it's that night against the Las Vegas Raiders.
And what I thought was cool yesterday, at least on
social media, is that's what Bengals fans did. I feel
like the way Jermaine played this year and how he
kind of handled himself kind of obscured the fact that
if you look at that twenty nineteen class, you could
argue he was the best pick of that draft class.
You know that included Jona Wims, that included Drew Sample,
who's still with the team. And then if you kind of,
(32:54):
you know, understood what his role in those teams in
twenty one and twenty two were, he was a contributing
to teams that won lots of games. Yeah, I did
lots of really cool things, and it was a big
part of that. I felt like, had they cut him
in January, nobody's talking about that. I think because of
the timing of this, more people focused on some of
the good stuff Jermaine did while he was here.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
Yeah, and he deserves that, yes, you know, I mean,
I just think you think about those defenses he was
a big part of, so, I mean the opener against
the Vikings, yeah, I mean when he just pulls that
ball out of nowhere of Travis Kelce in the home
Chiefs game, and then obviously the interception. I mean he's
also a part of the of the fumble in the jungle.
(33:35):
I mean it's not like I mean, he was just
as much part of it as anybody. And so he
was a big part of that. I always he had
one of the coolest sideline moments when he got caught
on video and he was looking up into the stands
that kill kill and I was like, they use that
and I think every video for about a year and
a half because it was great. But I was like
always I think of him in that way and that
(33:57):
he was just he was part of the personality and
swagger of that defense in a lot of ways, and
it was usually in the biggest moments. It showed up,
and so I think he you know, this happens. Guys
have bad years, careers go south, it stops working out,
and it changes a little bit of the way that
(34:18):
they're viewed. I think it doesn't take long or in
this case, six months, I guess, for people to see
Germine a little bit more of the way he probably
deserved to be seen.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Which beat would you find more enviable the one that
you're on now covering Shamar Stewart and Trey Hendrickson or
having to cover Aaron Rodgers and the Steelers.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
I'll still take the bagels at this point, I don't
I want nothing to do with anything that has to
do with the Aaron Rodgers beat, just the toxicity of
that and the constant nature of that, and then the
national uh maybe the flammability, Yeah, everything that happens with him,
And then you have to worry about him. Where is
(34:58):
he appears? What is he on a pot? Am I
gonna have to like get a vaccine expert on the phone,
like where do we end up? You never know where
you're gonna end up with these And then the only
thing is that you haven't ended up in a lot
of winning with him, and so yeah, I probably would
take this current situation over having to deal with Aaron.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
It's interesting. It's interesting in the AFC north man. I mean, look,
I don't know how much he raises Pittsburgh ceiling, and
as a fan, I am desperate to watch that go sideways.
That would be awesome. But it's an extraordinarily interesting dynamic.
This relatively stable franchise that sort of holds itself to
a different standard, I think lowering itself to kind of
(35:40):
letting Aaron Rodgers dictate the off season is a really
interesting dynamic.
Speaker 5 (35:43):
Grasping its straws is what they're doing. I mean, they're
just this is a I mean, fittingly Fraron Rodgers. It's
a hail Mary, you know what I mean. It's like, well,
I don't know, maybe maybe we can find a way
to get service will play out of a guy who
has been great. Maybe he has one last great season
we can build around him. I don't you know. It's
(36:03):
since Ben, since the end of Ben Roethlisberger, this is
what the Steelers have been, Yeah, grasping its straws at
the quarterback position, looking for any level of serviceability from
anybody that could do it, and talking themselves into that,
and they'll and and you know what, they'll I don't
know if you knew this. Mike Tomlin has never had
a losing season in his head coaching coaching career. Every
(36:26):
year he's at least won one more game. Yeah, yeah,
so so so they'll probably get themselves to that level. Suh.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
That yeah, I mean, but if it goes if it
goes south, it just has tremendous like toxicity and flammability potential.
Speaker 5 (36:44):
Oh, there's no doubt. I mean Tomlin Rogers relationship, Uh,
I would have I wouldn't mind hard knocks there this year,
just to get a feel for that, because obviously he
hasn't been the easiest to deal with in his last
couple stops.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Right, he can't move.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
And so if Shamar Stewart or Trey Hendrickson end up
playing for the Bengals, I think that first game here
is week six, Week seven, then they should Shamar Stewart
should get a sack and then he can find out
what it feels like to sack a quarterback.
Speaker 5 (37:16):
Most most likely to sack a to sack Aaron Rodgers first,
Miles Murphy.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Shamar Stewart or trade. My money's on Miles. He's here.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
At least he's here.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Like this huge like make or break season for Miles Murphy.
No one's talking about him. He's gonna be like, this
is awesome, this is great. I'm gonna get some reps.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
Now where they really need him to make it.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Huh sure, all right, well thank you?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yes, always this was uh this was fun mo. Yeah, yeah,
I enjoyed it.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
I always enjoy time with you, even when even when
it's something that I despise talking about. We like the
fun in football, of course, and this is just it's
not not fun. It's annoying, and it's dumb stuff, and
it's lawyer stuff, and I just like, I just don't
find it. And I'm I understand the need to know
(38:05):
and the need to understand the pick sides, and I
and and I'm here to We just did talk through
all of it. I just I just don't like it.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
I I don't want to say that I don't love it,
because if you don't love it, then why you're doing this? Yeah,
but there's a big part of me that wants this
to get resolved so we can start to talk about
the the fun part of this, which is the Yeah.
Speaker 5 (38:27):
Like I've had a lot of fun, like doing stuff
on the on the evolution of the Bengals offense in
the background for the last week and a half, Like,
I have a lot of good stuff.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
I can't wait to get out and listening to Joe
talk about to today it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 5 (38:38):
It was I really, I really like am excited to
write more about what I've got on all of this,
and I feel like it keeps getting pushed back because
stupid things keep happening.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Mote, It's Harry Season, Talk Football. Well, thank you as
always my pleasure. Paul Danner Junior read his work covering
Shamar Stewart and no football at the Athletic Doc.
Speaker 5 (38:58):
Come and get the Cup, Ohio Cup talk, Ohio Cup talk.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yes, she truns ran about the Ohio Cup.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Yeah. Pattock dot Com Absolutely, and Paul's podcast The Growler
as well. It is a seven away from four o'clock.
I'm Owger glad you with us today on ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 6 (39:20):
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Speaker 2 (39:52):
This report is SPOR
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen in oh Man, you are listening right
now to a very very happy, very very grateful man.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Good afternoon. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. My name is Moeger.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Thank you for listening right when the shine had war
off from last night's Ohio Cup clincher. Not that I
wasn't still basking in the aftermath, but you know, professionally,
I started to turn the page. Okay, what about today's show,
and then dropped from heaven by.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
The sports talk.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Radio gods, we have Schamar Stewart versus the Bengals, and
even better, this happened on a Tuesday, so here he's
forced to talk about this now with.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Me covering Schamar Stewart versus.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
The Bengals for the Athletic, Theathletic dot Com and the
Growler Podcast, our friend Paul Dayner Jr. It is awesome
to have you. I am so excited.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's great. Let me just tell you what.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
The best just dropped from heaven by the sports talk
radio gods.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
Can we get one day in the middle of June
like this? No, just one time. Can I just be like, oh,
nothing weird to report today? Kind of a very simple day,
very calm practice. Nobody's yelling at management. No, we have
like multiple people. This is the best, and I mean.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
We have Joe.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
We talked to Joe Burrow today. No one even cares
about that anymore.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Irrelevant the only day the five years that Joe Burrow
has been with the Bengals that anything they get out
of his mouth is totally irrelevant.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
Although knew he had a good joke. Last year they
had two people holding out and this year there's just one.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
So that's good going in the right direction. It's a joke, mo, okay,
how it's like this all right?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
I doubt there's anybody who is uninitiated, but let's just
do a reset for anybody who's maybe been at work
all day and they want to know what's going on.
So the Bengals today, day one of miniicamp right o
Trey Hendrickson, which was not unexpected. Shamar Stewart is still
not practicing, but he is there, and today he talked
with you.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Guys, yes, and he sounded off.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
He sounded off, yeah, I mean he he essentially he
essentially voiced his displeasure with the organization.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I mean, there was no real holding back, I mean.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
A part of the Bengals. He just got here six weeks.
He doesn't have any contract yet. He just got here,
and he's like, let me tell y'all something.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
He says, you know, he says, let's see.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
He says, he's not asking for anything that hasn't been
done before. Y'all just want to win arguments more than
winning more games. Just got here. He's honestly pretty observant.
Quickly observe it, dud dude learns quick quick.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
He called it.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
He called this something very simple to fix. Its kind
of disappointment to disappointing. Excuse me, and you know, you
just he's totally just disenchanted with everything in this conversation.
And he said, I can't really say what I really
want to say. It's their contract. They can do with
what they want with it. He is there is he's
(03:16):
upset about language inside of the contract. That has to
do with avoiding future guarantees. At some point, they didn't
like language in the waiver originally that a lot of
people sign, these rookies. He's not the only unsigned rookie
didn't like language and that and that led to this
(03:37):
not participating, saying he wants to participate, but deciding, you
know what, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna fire off
how I feel and I get it. Here's here's my
side on this. Because I think everybody is seeing it
through different views. I think everybody's to blame.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
But I I.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
Will say this, I understand him not knowing how to
handle this situation. He's a twenty one year old kid
who never really thought he would ever be This was
supposed to be simple. I don't know anything about the
specific type of guidance he's getting from an agent or
what they would have in his agenda. And I don't
know why the Bengals are so dug in on trying
to take this fight out and this precedent out on
(04:17):
Shamar Stewart, other than they feel like they need to.
I probably would have advised him not to do this.
Like to me, it's this is your home, this is
your work home. You just got here, right, you may
feel this way. Would keep that to yourself for now,
because guess what, it's probably gonna happen like next month.
(04:39):
Sometime you'll figure it out and sign and you'll be
there to begin a training camp and you'll wish you
didn't say all that stuff. Now, maybe not, Maybe he'll
be like, I'm not gonna sit here and just take
this and let them try to take money away. So
I hear both sides. I think this is probably not
the greatest way. That wouldn't have been what I would
have done. But I'm not in a situation where they, yeah,
you feel like they're trying to take money away from me.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I just cannot believe.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
This. That's the easiest thing in contracts in the NFL today.
I cannot believe this has reached this level where the
guy you just picked is just throwing it shots at
everyone in the organization as high up as it goes.
Already already he doesn't even know what the shoulder pads
(05:27):
feel like yet.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Drafted six weeks ago.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
So I had a handful of thoughts. Number one was,
if I didn't know any better, I watched the video
Mike Petrellia.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I watched his version, Yeah Trags.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
He's sitting at his locker, and if I didn't know
any better, I would think that was a player who
had been here for four years, who had reached a
point of exasperation during the course of his NFL career
with the Cincinnati Bengals. That's obviously not the case. He's
been here for six weeks, he hasn't signed his contract yet,
So there's number one. Number two. I know, realistically this
wasn't gonna happen, but I kept waiting for a teammate
(06:03):
to come up and go, dude, like Schamar, come on,
you know, not make a but like I kept waiting
for like a veteran teammate to look at that and
come over and.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Go, hey, let's uh, let's get out of here.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
We got a meeting to go to, Like, I mean,
just because the more he talked, the worse it got.
And I love it because I'm in sports talk radio.
But the more he talked, the less good came out
of it, right, Yeah, So I kept waiting for that,
and then there was just something interesting. Twice we've had
Trey Hendrickson's stand on a Cincinnati Bengals practice field and
(06:36):
air out the organization. And then we had Shamar Stewart,
who hasn't signed his contract yet, sitting inside the locker
room inside the stadium, at his locker that the Bengals
have given him and he's got to like go off
to a meeting after that I guess and just air
out the franchise and the dude has barely been here.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
That is remarkable. Yeah, that is a remarkable visual. Yeah
it is. I'll just say that.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
I mean, I feel like I don't know what there's
immaturity at play here because he's a young kid, and
which is.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Why I kept waiting for a veteran teammate to come
up and go. But he's in the middle of this, like,
no one knows what he's saying. Sure, right, you don't
know he could be in their view. No, if you're
not in there. I mean there's a little huddle around
him that lasted.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
You can't know.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
I mean, you couldn't hear even in the outside of
the huddle. It's hard to hear what was actually being
said in there, So no one knows what's going on.
And I'm guessing no one approached him with like, hey,
don't say anything, or maybe there was people saying, like
you've talked about stars, say I'm doing what's right or
whatever that exact quote was. I don't I'm not pulling.
I don't have a directly in front of me. But
(07:43):
you know, maybe he feels vindicated in things that he's
hearing behind closed doors, and so he's just gonna say
what he wants to say. It's just not great because
because my point in this is that no one will
remember this, and I don't I think if he would
have been quiet here, I still think no one would
remember this, right because he if he shows up at
(08:05):
training camp, no one would remember that, oh yeah, he
didn't participate in mini camp.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Right.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
And again I'm gonna continue to reiterate what I often do.
There's just, especially for linemen, there's just not a lot
happening out there.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Would it be better to these out there?
Speaker 5 (08:20):
Of course, until the pads come on and it gets
real in training camp, I don't think this is an impact.
But now it feels like it's escalated to this point
where now this guy just feels like he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Like it here.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
Yeah, where it went from a little annoyance in your
contract thing that's like, okay, there's still a bunch of
guys that aren't signed, we can work this out to
like I don't like it here is what his body
language and a lot of his words are saying, Yeah,
he just got raped number seven set overall, and the
(08:51):
one thing was like, look, I'm not saying he's not
a good kid. I think he's in a tough spot here.
But it was like, okay, we doesn't have production, Okay,
but now we have this. So it's like the same
problems that you were having with Trey Hendrickson's situation, minus
the sacks.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Okay. So I don't know, like.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
All this over what over some setting, some precedent off,
some void language, okay, and maybe the Bengals have decided, Man,
it is really important right now, Like this is the
moment we have to Maybe maybe it shouldn't be.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Here's what I do know. If you're not practicing, maybe
you shouldn't have a locker. And if you don't have
a locker because you're not changing into anything, then you
can't sit there and say bad things about us.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Problem solved. Yeah, no contract, no locker.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Yeah right, you get a locker, you get some stuff
like why do you have a locker? You're not dressing
for practice, didn't do anything out there, Why do you
have a locker. If you don't have a locker, you
can't sit an hour locker and dump all over us.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
I just we it just seems like, you know, we
talked to about the Bengals being up to the task
this offseason. A monumentous off season in terms of the
challenge in front of them, Right, they had to do
so much, and they did some things. You know, they
get t and Jamar done and that's great, but like
(10:26):
they have not been up to the task on so
much of this. It's like this, so much of this
is how is this? It's the lingering. It's that it
goes on and you had the ability to nip some
things in the bud and avoid the distractions. It's the
same conversation we had last year with Jamar Chase. It's
the same conversation we've had this off season with Trey Hendrickson.
(10:46):
I'd throw in the Jermaine Pratt situation into this too,
of just letting that unnecessarily linger and kind of hold him.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Hostage for god knows why.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
And now this thing over just fighting with your first
round pick over this stuff. It's just it's the lingering
and the constant battling and bickering over this stuff that
it's just it's pervasive and it affects more than the
guy that it's happening to.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
With respect to Schamar specifically, It's just not a good
way to start a new relationship. No.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I mean, he may end up.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Having a terrific career and sign a second contract and be,
you know, a guy who's here for a decade, and
it may be awesome, but this is just not the
way to get started with with a guy who they
obviously view as central. We took him in the first
round at a position of need where they, you know,
have a guy that they're in another standoff with, Like
(11:42):
it's I've watched Bengals players show dissatisfaction. We've witnessed you know, holdouts.
We're not really in that era anymore. I guess we're
not supposed to be. I've not seen anything like this.
I've heard the holdouts agent sound off. You know, we
all remember the nineties and early two thousands when invariably,
you know, the agent would speak on behalf of the player.
The player was nowhere to be seen. Here, the player
(12:04):
is very much to be seen.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
He's right there, yeah, right there.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I said this to you about the Trey Hendrickson thing
four weeks ago. I had never seen anything like that before.
I certainly have not seen anything like this. It's remarkable
and it's such a bad way, regardless of where you
want to lay the blame. It's such a bad way
to start what has to be a good working relationship.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
Yeah, I mean, it's a bad taste in your mouth immediately,
even if he signed it to you know, tomorrow, is
he gonna come back and say, oh, I didn't feel
any of that. I was just making that stuff. Well,
I don't really really have these problems. I don't really
feel this way. I'm not really you know, everything that
I was doing and saying, ah, that's not really how
I feel. You know, it's out there now, which and
that's fine if that's it's just public and maybe there
(12:47):
were there's a lot of people that feel that way.
The good I mean, the you know, I do think
that it's it's easier for the team and everybody to
kind of sluff that stuff, this stuff off a little
bit more than last year. But god, the it's the
ultimate Okay, if there was a lesson to be learned
from last year, is like, let's just forget all that stuff.
(13:08):
And they haven't been able to because just in the
it's like the easy stuff, not calling Trey Hendrickson situation easy,
but like when you get to a certain point, you
know what the decision you need to make is. It's
A or B, and the and the inability to just
make the decision and move on. It's just it hangs
out there and it makes so many of these things
just drag out and cause days like this. Although this
(13:29):
was fairly unprecedented.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
So does does the sixteenth overall pick Walter Nolan signing
his contract with the Cardinals shape this in any way,
shape or form.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
Maybe, I don't know. I love talking about contract language
in June Mo. It's my favorite. Yeah, absolutely. I mean
we're we're in weird, uncharted territory here with this, at
this point where there's this thing. So I don't know
that that changes that it changed Maybe maybe it changes
the view of one side or the other.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I just don't know.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
At this point, I can't sit here and say that
I have a feel for what that's.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Gonna how it's gonna affect it.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
Because this is a guy who clearly sounds different than
most rookies that don't haven't signed yet sound This isn't
like your standard oh waiting for the slot to come
through conversation.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
I do have some things to ask you about that
don't necessarily have anything to do with Shamar Stewart, but
not yet. Nineteen minutes after three o'clock, He's Paul Tanner Junior.
Read his work The Athletic dot Com and catch the
podcast The Growler multiple times per week. As we say,
where you get your podcasts, including YouTube. Twenty minutes after
(14:40):
three o'clock, Paul's here till four, I'm here Toll six.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 6 (14:50):
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(15:10):
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Speaker 5 (15:22):
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Speaker 3 (15:25):
Rapid Radios are instant push to talk walkie talkies offering
national LTE coverage and no subscription as ZESPN fifteen thirty.
Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and the Growling podcast
is here till four o'clock. Bengals had a day one
of minicam today and some stuff happened on the field.
I guess that we'll discuss that much right now. Shamar
Stewart is digging in in his battle with the Bengals.
(15:47):
That's made waves today and it's been a lot of
fun for me.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Schamar intimated that the star players are on his side.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, do you believe him?
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (15:59):
Yeah, that would be a weird thing to make up
or know that you even could make up when you
just got here, when you just got here.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
What he did today though, was weird. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
I would think that there's probably, you know, that could
be as simple as somebody like Jamar or t or
Trey being like, man, fight for yourself, fight for what
you believe in, like a passing comment. It could be
a something as simple as that. It could be something
as large as a lunch meeting with all of them
gathering around, you know, like like I that could be
(16:31):
when you're talking about something a twenty one year old
kid says, surrounding by media like that in that situation
for the first time in his life. The background on
it is hard, you know, to know specifically what would
warrant him saying that, But yeah, you would think that
there was probably there. I don't think it's something would
make up.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
So they're putting this language in a contract, and they
want to put this language in his contract, the sort
of language they haven't included in the deals for any
of their other first round picks. Yeah, do people with
the club suggest to you why they want to do this,
because it feels it feels from out of left field.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
It would be helpful to know their side, right and
there's nothing there is There is nothing there, no and
and no one. You know, there are ways to do that,
but there, you know, there is nothing there right now
in terms of help me understand why you would want
to do it.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
You know, there's nothing suggesting that they think there's maybe
a character issue or a professionalism issue, or some sort
of issue with Shamar that is exclusive to him that
they want to protect themselves from by including language they
haven't with other picks.
Speaker 5 (17:49):
I mean, the only thing is the nature of who
he is as a prospect being raw maybe percent as
a risk reward, high risk, you know, chance of busting
situation in terms of just the lack of production. Maybe
it's fear over that, you know, wanting to hedge a
little bit more because of the nature of who he
of who he was in college. Then don't take him right, right, Like,
(18:12):
if that's what this is about, then then then he
shouldn't have been your pick.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Is there anything that would suggest that if Shamar Stewart
had come off the board at sixteen and they take
any other player at seventeen, that they're putting the same language.
Speaker 5 (18:23):
In no way to know that, Yeah, I have no
way to know that. I mean, there is just isn't.
I mean, it's to speculate it, you'd be speculation, right,
I don't.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I don't know because some have taken this is this
is just how the Bengals want to do their contracts
moving forward, and it just it feels like a weird
It just feels like a weird thing to just decide
we're going to start doing this year when we're taking
a player who is drafted in a comparable place to
players we have taken recently. Yeah, Shamar Stewart's dad said
(18:53):
in a podcast, I think a week ago, Look, you
want to set a new precedent whin the Super Bowl
this year, then do it next year with the guy
you take thirty seven and overall that would make sense.
Or doing it with a guy if you really stink
and you draft in the top five or top ten,
do it then. Like it's so I think what a
lot of us have done after we have gotten done
kind of just laughing at the absurdity of the situation.
(19:15):
Is like, all right, what is there specifically about Shamar
Stewart that compels the Bengals to do something differently than
they've done with any other player who has been drafted,
especially when they have drafted close to seventeen in the
first round in recent years.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
The I mean to me, it goes back to what
I was saying. I think it's the it's the bust potential,
you know, the chance of if he doesn't start becoming
the athlete that he was, if he is one and
a half sack per year guy, you know, if that
is the case, versus becoming, you know, growing into what
(19:51):
they think he can be as a player. The ability
to not be stuck on that money. They feel like
it's a higher risk right now than in previous That's
that's the day diference between him and others and I.
You know, you could have probably made a similar argument
about Marius mims.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Raw a little bit of a project, yeah, not a
lot of experience.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Yeah, but also you know you could have had. It's
just that it goes back to me. It also goes
back to though, you know, just the willingness to sign
the waiver and just go practice by the player, which
meant so maybe that is part of it where it's like, okay, well,
if you're willing to go sign and practice and you're
you're about the right stuff and you you land there,
(20:32):
nobody knows if you felt this way. I just you know,
I think he I I just I don't know what
to say about it anymore, right, Like what do you
what do you say? Yeah, it's ridiculous. You could just
sit and laugh the way I do. That's what I've
been doing. It's ridiculous that we're talking about language and
(20:56):
contracts and deferring guarantees in June with the guy who
just got here. It just for everybody involved, there's there's
just there's no reason for it to be at this level.
There's nothing.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Maybe the Bengals don't care, maybe most listening to this
conversation don't care. But what is more damaging to the
bengals reputation what they're doing with Trey Hendrickson or the
Shamar Stewart situation.
Speaker 5 (21:27):
Probably the Shamar Stewart thing, because it looks more petty
and it looks more like, man, they're just impossible to
deal with you. We've made the argument about not signing Trey,
but yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
See the basic premise of their position.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
Like creating Trey Hendrickson was the number two thing of
my ten things the Bengals need to do this offseason, right,
Like we there's a real argument to be made for
moving on from the guy who's turning thirty one at
that position this year and not paying him the top
of the market. Like I think you can make football,
you know the way it's gone down obviously, and compile
(22:01):
with everything else it's not great. But I think this
just feels petty and silly, and it's that they're just
gonna fight you tooth and nail on every single thing,
no matter who you are, even if your first round
pick who just got here in a slotted contract. That
should be easy. So yeah, I think that is more
damaging to reputation than something that you can you can
make football arguments about and see where they're coming from.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Many have said over the years that the Bengals care
more about winning negotiations than they do football games. That
has been something that has been lobbed against the Bengals
for decades. To have a guy come in and say
pretty much the same thing when he was drafted six
weeks ago is extraordinarily striking.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, maybe he is talking to the stars.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
I mean really like, because those are the people that
would say that is a line that has been spit
out about the Bengals for a long time. Twenty one
year old kid who just got here doesn't just manufacture that.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
So that's what I'm kind of curious. Like someone says
that to him.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Someone someone says that to him, someone who matters said
that to him. Yeah, and it could be his agent, sure, right,
I mean that would that sounds like the type of
thing that an agent would say. I mean, and probably,
and there's a lot of agents that have a lot
the vast majority probably, But like I I'm just saying
(23:23):
that's that's where that's something like that more than likely
comes from.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Wow, you know there's other stuff. I promise you.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Joe Burrow talked today, mo Joe Burrow talked today and
acknowledged that the Trey Hendrickson situation is a distraction.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, and that's like the second thing we're going to
talk about. Yeah, it's another there's another distraction. Uh, all right,
Well we'll get a break in. Paul Danner Junior's with
this from the When do we get to talk about
the Ohio Cup? You know, we can do that next
if you want.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
No, No, I'm here. No, I mean, I just I
just you know, I'm excited. I love the Ohio Cup.
How could you not?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
The question now tonight is like, is there a little
bit of a hangover? Oh?
Speaker 5 (24:04):
Oh, okay, hangover?
Speaker 3 (24:05):
What happens do the Reds sort of you know, burst
through because they're riding that afterglow or a little bit
of a hangover.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
And then from a guardian's perspective, what do you play for.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Twenty six away from four o'clock sports headlines and more? Next,
Paul Tanner Juniors. Here, This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Sincy three sixty with Tony Pike. If we want to
move on, they'd have to keep going and bustin Elmore.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
I think you should continue.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Let me keep going there Sincy three sixty tomorrow which
twelve News on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
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(25:05):
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Speaker 2 (25:15):
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Yours for Life kelseyshev dot com. With the champagne still
being soaked up from the visiting clubhouse in Cleveland, the
Reds are preparing to take on the Guardians tonight, game
two of their three game series. Andrew Abbot's going to
pitch against Slade scone six forty tonight seven hundred WLW.
(25:38):
Starting lineup this evening. TJ Friedel is leading off in center.
Lux's dhing Ellie's at short cees third, Tyler Stevenson is
catching Will Benson and left Spencer Stewart first. Jake Freeley,
after a big night last night's in right field, hitting eighth.
Matt McLain is playing second base and batting nine. Florence
on the road against Windy City tonight, and the Bengals
(25:59):
held day one of minicamp today. I'm sorry, really quick.
Florence is hosting Wendy City, so you can go to
that game. Don't drive to Chicago to go watch the
Alls tonight. They're home six forty two, first pitch. I
don't want to give out bum information. The Bengals held
day one of minicamp today. Trey Hendrickson was not there.
(26:20):
Schamar Stewart was there but not practicing.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Because he's upset stuff. I can tell you.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Really want to talk about things that have nothing to
do with Shamar Stewart anything else. I just I'm just
over I'm just over all of this. The practice today,
did anything interesting happen? Very little Okay.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
Previous weeks we're talking about the competitiveness, right, it felt
like it ended, And I said, when did it start?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
It was very very slow, very slow.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
Today. Not a whole lot that that really happened today.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Okay, Joe Burrow talked, Yes, Yes, anything interesting from Joe today.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
You know a little bit.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
I think it's just sort of you know, business as usual,
a little bit with him where he talks about, you know,
his health and the risk and that he still works
through it and working on spin rate and still you know,
trying to work on that, but feeling like he has
(27:24):
a feel for what he needs to do to get
through the year. I I just think he feels like
he's in It's almost like he's trying not to jinx it,
you know. He just feels like he's in a really
good place, the best place he's probably been at this point.
(27:45):
And so there's a okay, feels like, gosh, got your
guys out there and something.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
And I know I mentioned this last week.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
I'm writing this story on Dann Pitcher in year two,
and I was gathering a little bit more on it today.
It will be out soon, I promise, I promise. It's
mostly done. I got time other things keep pushing the
good stories back. Mo. I don't want it to be
this way. This is probably where a lot of my
frustration comes from. I'm like, I'd love to talk about
football stuff. Don't you like talking about football stuff?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Not in June, no September through January? Hell yeah, yeah,
get a lawyer on the phone, let's go.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
And so.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
But I think him talking about this being the first
time they felt like they haven't had to get a
new guy into the mix or work on some new
aspect of something, and just the general continuity that is
happening right now really has them feeling like they're in
a great place offensively, then the guard thing will work
itself out. But like there's just everybody you talk to
(28:47):
involved in this offense feels great about where they are,
the adjustments there they are able to tweak to see,
you know, how they learned from all the personnel that
is back this year, and the way that they can
build better around them, whether it be tweaking the running
game to build better around Chase Brown and what his
skill set is to get SICKI to Yoshabash, having a
(29:11):
better understanding of how he can be used in him
being clearly bigger, stronger, faster, Twitchyre being used I think
the t Higgins use last week and feeling like they
have so many more answers and year two for Dan
and all of that stuff. You can just sense that
when Burrow was talking about it today of just man,
(29:32):
you just feel like you're just in a really good
place offensively with what they were coming off of last year,
and so that they have answers even if there's injuries,
even if there's which they're inevitably there will be, I think,
feeling like they have a lot of answers that they
can get to and just being as prepared as they
could be right now to do exactly what they haven't done,
and that's start fast.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
The Bengals made it official today. Jermaine Pratt is being released.
This is something we've talked about for five months now,
months to release?
Speaker 4 (30:02):
Cool?
Speaker 5 (30:03):
What do we do?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
What is happening? They turn him into a sympathetic figure.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
Yeah, where it's you essentially hold this guy hostage. Okay,
you you want to wait until after the draft?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Undersid? I get it? Like, Yeah, first of all, he's
not in your plans.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
Wasn't in your plans in January, the same way he
wasn't on Monday.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Not in your plans. You know you can.
Speaker 5 (30:26):
It's not about where, it's not about distribution of money
or any of that. You knew what you were gonna do.
You're gonna try to get Okay, try to get a trade.
No one is taking that money for Jermaine track. Nobody
was doing that, right, and they knew that the moment
that there was the idea that Jermaine has requested a trade. No,
you guys just said go find a trade for yourself
and see if someone will take on your contract and
(30:48):
get you the money for you.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Okay, and okay, you want to.
Speaker 5 (30:53):
Hold on to something that you didn't have to bring
him back into the mix and be hey, go go
get him come. Well, good to have you back, Jermaine.
Is that what was gonna happen if if you really
didn't get a Okay, So let's just say that you're
keeping that alive. Okay, But the moment you draft Barrett Carter,
the move should it should have been the Bengals select
Barrett Carter and released your main prep. Right, You've you've
(31:14):
signed linebackers, you've traded, you've you've drafted to.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
What is happening. There's no reason to do that.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
It's okay whatever, whatever your reason is, it doesn't matter.
It becomes it becames you. This guy doesn't deserve this.
He deserves to be able to move on with his
life and go find his team. You already caught. You
know you're not gonna do it before free agency where
it's easier for him to find a landing place where
he can go play. Okay, that's your right, you can
do it that way. I'm sure the player hates it.
(31:41):
I'm sure a lot of players see that treatment and
don't like seeing that happen to a friend of theirs.
But it's like, it doesn't have to be this way,
and I feel like he is a guy for his sours.
It went for him last year, and you know everything
that happened that went wrong last year on that defense
he did. He didn't deserve that. It's nice to say
(32:03):
thank you Jermaine for all that you did. You know
what a better way to say thank you would have
been to let him go the moment after the drafter earlier, I.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Did feel like I mentioned he kind of became a
sympathetic figure when you know it was out there that
they're officially going to release him, which we all knew
they were going to do. I kind of felt like
Bengals fans spent more time talking about some of the
moments that Jermaine authored here. I mean, I said on
my show yesterday, is a handful of athletes in this town.
Sam Hubbard's one of them two that when you mentioned
their name, your mind instantly goes to a specific play,
(32:32):
And with Jermaine, it's that night against the Las Vegas Raiders.
And what I thought was cool yesterday, at least on
social media, is that's what Bengals fans did. I feel
like the way Jermaine played this year and how he
kind of handled himself kind of obscured the fact that
if you look at that twenty nineteen class, you could
argue he was the best pick of that draft class.
You know that included Jona Wims, that included Drew Sample,
who's still with the team. And then if you kind of,
(32:54):
you know, understood what his role in those teams in
twenty one and twenty two were, he was a contributing
to teams that won lots of games. Yeah, I did
lots of really cool things, and it was a big
part of that. I felt like, had they cut him
in January, nobody's talking about that. I think because of
the timing of this, more people focused on some of
the good stuff Jermaine did while he was here.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
Yeah, and he deserves that, yes, you know, I mean,
I just think you think about those defenses he was
a big part of, so, I mean the opener against
the Vikings, yeah, I mean when he just pulls that
ball out of nowhere of Travis Kelce in the home
Chiefs game, and then obviously the interception. I mean he's
also a part of the of the fumble in the jungle.
(33:35):
I mean it's not like I mean, he was just
as much part of it as anybody. And so he
was a big part of that. I always he had
one of the coolest sideline moments when he got caught
on video and he was looking up into the stands
that kill kill and I was like, they use that
and I think every video for about a year and
a half because it was great. But I was like
always I think of him in that way and that
(33:57):
he was just he was part of the personality and
swagger of that defense in a lot of ways, and
it was usually in the biggest moments. It showed up,
and so I think he you know, this happens. Guys
have bad years, careers go south, it stops working out,
and it changes a little bit of the way that
(34:18):
they're viewed. I think it doesn't take long or in
this case, six months, I guess, for people to see
Germine a little bit more of the way he probably
deserved to be seen.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Which beat would you find more enviable the one that
you're on now covering Shamar Stewart and Trey Hendrickson or
having to cover Aaron Rodgers and the Steelers.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
I'll still take the bagels at this point, I don't
I want nothing to do with anything that has to
do with the Aaron Rodgers beat, just the toxicity of
that and the constant nature of that, and then the
national uh maybe the flammability, Yeah, everything that happens with him,
And then you have to worry about him. Where is
(34:58):
he appears? What is he on a pot? Am I
gonna have to like get a vaccine expert on the phone,
like where do we end up? You never know where
you're gonna end up with these And then the only
thing is that you haven't ended up in a lot
of winning with him, and so yeah, I probably would
take this current situation over having to deal with Aaron.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
It's interesting. It's interesting in the AFC north man. I mean, look,
I don't know how much he raises Pittsburgh ceiling, and
as a fan, I am desperate to watch that go sideways.
That would be awesome. But it's an extraordinarily interesting dynamic.
This relatively stable franchise that sort of holds itself to
a different standard, I think lowering itself to kind of
(35:40):
letting Aaron Rodgers dictate the off season is a really
interesting dynamic.
Speaker 5 (35:43):
Grasping its straws is what they're doing. I mean, they're
just this is a I mean, fittingly Fraron Rodgers. It's
a hail Mary, you know what I mean. It's like, well,
I don't know, maybe maybe we can find a way
to get service will play out of a guy who
has been great. Maybe he has one last great season
we can build around him. I don't you know. It's
(36:03):
since Ben, since the end of Ben Roethlisberger, this is
what the Steelers have been, Yeah, grasping its straws at
the quarterback position, looking for any level of serviceability from
anybody that could do it, and talking themselves into that,
and they'll and and you know what, they'll I don't
know if you knew this. Mike Tomlin has never had
a losing season in his head coaching coaching career. Every
(36:26):
year he's at least won one more game. Yeah, yeah,
so so so they'll probably get themselves to that level. Suh.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
That yeah, I mean, but if it goes if it
goes south, it just has tremendous like toxicity and flammability potential.
Speaker 5 (36:44):
Oh, there's no doubt. I mean Tomlin Rogers relationship, Uh,
I would have I wouldn't mind hard knocks there this year,
just to get a feel for that, because obviously he
hasn't been the easiest to deal with in his last
couple stops.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Right, he can't move.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
And so if Shamar Stewart or Trey Hendrickson end up
playing for the Bengals, I think that first game here
is week six, Week seven, then they should Shamar Stewart
should get a sack and then he can find out
what it feels like to sack a quarterback.
Speaker 5 (37:16):
Most most likely to sack a to sack Aaron Rodgers first,
Miles Murphy.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Shamar Stewart or trade. My money's on Miles. He's here.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
At least he's here.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Like this huge like make or break season for Miles Murphy.
No one's talking about him. He's gonna be like, this
is awesome, this is great. I'm gonna get some reps.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
Now where they really need him to make it.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Huh sure, all right, well thank you?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yes, always this was uh this was fun mo. Yeah, yeah,
I enjoyed it.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
I always enjoy time with you, even when even when
it's something that I despise talking about. We like the
fun in football, of course, and this is just it's
not not fun. It's annoying, and it's dumb stuff, and
it's lawyer stuff, and I just like, I just don't
find it. And I'm I understand the need to know
(38:05):
and the need to understand the pick sides, and I
and and I'm here to We just did talk through
all of it. I just I just don't like it.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
I I don't want to say that I don't love it,
because if you don't love it, then why you're doing this? Yeah,
but there's a big part of me that wants this
to get resolved so we can start to talk about
the the fun part of this, which is the Yeah.
Speaker 5 (38:27):
Like I've had a lot of fun, like doing stuff
on the on the evolution of the Bengals offense in
the background for the last week and a half, Like,
I have a lot of good stuff.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
I can't wait to get out and listening to Joe
talk about to today it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 5 (38:38):
It was I really, I really like am excited to
write more about what I've got on all of this,
and I feel like it keeps getting pushed back because
stupid things keep happening.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Mote, It's Harry Season, Talk Football. Well, thank you as
always my pleasure. Paul Danner Junior read his work covering
Shamar Stewart and no football at the Athletic Doc.
Speaker 5 (38:58):
Come and get the Cup, Ohio Cup talk, Ohio Cup talk.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yes, she truns ran about the Ohio Cup.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Yeah. Pattock dot Com Absolutely, and Paul's podcast The Growler
as well. It is a seven away from four o'clock.
I'm Owger glad you with us today on ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.
Speaker 6 (39:20):
Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center from massage therapy
to stress relief and cancer surveillance. The uc Cancer Center
offers the region's largest supportive services program for cancer patients
and survivors, called five one, three, five eight, five UCCC Roadways.
Right now, that's on Lynn Street and accident over at
(39:42):
Ezer Charles Drive. Construction causing delays on westbound two seventy five.
That's down to one lane near the Carrol Cropper Bridge
on that Ezelic with traffic.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
This report is SPOR
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