June 4, 2024 • 41 mins
Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us to discuss Joe Burrow's day off and the hyseria it created, Ja'Marr Chase's contract extension, minicamp storylines, an NFL offseason proposal, some Elly De La Cruz, and more.
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Podcasts of The Mo Egger Radio Show are a service of Longnecks Sports Grill.
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Podcasts of The Mo Egger Radio Show are a service of Longnecks Sports Grill.
Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
Listen Live: ESPN1530.com/listen
Follow on Twitter: @MoEgger
Podcasts of The Mo Egger Radio Show are a service of Longnecks Sports Grill.
Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Fifteen thirty. What's up, Goodafternoon on my lendar. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty. Thank you so muchfor joining us. Hopefully you're having an
unreal Tuesday afternoon. We have alot to get to today. Red's win
last night. They've now won sevenout of ten. Eli Dela Cruz hit
the ball hard. Eli Dela Cruisealso booted of all in short stop.
(00:22):
We'll spend time on both. JoeBurrow made us all freak out today.
Paul Danner Junior is here to talkabout that. I've got a bold prediction
in the five o'clock hour, abold Cincinnati sports prediction. I'm not even
sure it's that bold, but it'sa prediction, and maybe it's bold.
We'll find out in the five o'clockhour. And a Major League Baseball player
who is terrible at gambling has beenbooted from the sport permanently. We have
(00:47):
to discuss also a big WNBA topic. But first, Paul's here. It's
Tuesday. We've been apart from eachother for a couple of weeks. We
have been a while. It hasbeen a while, and we show up
and things happen. Yeah, itturns out to be very well timed,
very well timed. The old Dannerjunior covering the Bengals for the Athletic dot
Com and podcasting the Growler podcast,of which I was a part while you
(01:11):
were out of town. A goodring of honor discussion. Really good.
Yeah, No, I love thatdiscussion. I thought it was great you.
I'm not gonna say that you swayedme because I was in the same
area that you were on a fewof those topics. But I think you
cemented that some of the thoughts thatI were having were correct. Okay,
and I if you know, DaveLapham gets in and the Bengals decide to
(01:37):
do the right thing, and thatfifty years put him in. I like
to think that you should be presentinghim, you think so. I think
you're leading away. I think you'releading the way. You've led the way
here and and spearheaded the MOO andthe movement. And none of his former
teammates, No, not as notas broadcast partner, absolutely not. No.
Ju for your incredible persuasive speech onthe podcast. Okay, well,
(02:01):
I'm I'm not gonna I'm gonna I'mgonna campaign assuming that lat gets in,
So hope he does. I'm gonnacampaign. Yeah, I do have a
question about that. All right,So the news of the day is really
no news. Well yeah, Imean sort of. But is there such
a thing as no news when itcomes to number nine? So Joe Burrow
(02:24):
didn't practice. This is our life, mo I get it. This is
what it is now. But here'sthe thing. Okay, So Joe Burrow
did not practice today. I'm sureeverybody listening to us knows that. And
for about an hour there was aninternet freak out. Yeah, and really
every day there's an Internet freak outabout something. There's probably an Internet freak
(02:45):
out about something right now that I'mjust not aware of. But there was
an Internet freak out, and Ithink to a degree it was caused by
how the Bengals. And I'm notsaying they did anything wrong, but when
you read, at least from myperspective, Joe's not practicing, Zach going
to explain afterwards, that's that's notregular, that's not normal. No,
And then it turned out it wasa little bit of a misunderstandings as it
(03:06):
relates to when you guys were thereversus when they thought you were there,
and the timing of that around whenJoe took a day off. Yeah,
that's that's the point made by ZachTaylor afterwards, was they've given him this
essentially the second day off of eachweek. They've they've tried not to do
more than two days in a row. And uh they previously the first day
(03:29):
had been on Tuesdays, and theycame in a day earlier this week,
and he was claiming him not realizingthat we were going to be here today
and not yesterday was part of theconfusion. And that's that's fine. I
mean, I don't I don't know. You you take people will will stand
in the corner and say no,they're lying to you, and other people
stand in the corner say I believeeverything they say. It doesn't matter.
(03:53):
You know. This was always gonnabe about training camp. Uh huh.
This was always it's not like we'renever gonna see him again, Okay to
judge. Okay, So if Itend to take them at their word today
and guess where guess we're all benext Tuesday, I'll be there right expecting
to see Joe Burrow next week andjudging it only looks. But this was
(04:14):
always going to be about how helooks in trading camp when it's eleven on
eleven and he's showing where he's atin relation to the season, whatever is
happening. If they want to givehim days off now, fine, If
that's what happened today, fine,If they're covering up something else, fine,
it doesn't really matter. We're gonnajudge it on where it looks down
the line. I understand the theinstant reaction. Yeah, I mean,
(04:38):
there's no question because this is right, this is what this is, that
what starts right. Well, yeah, and so I said when I was
just all with Tony and Austin,I'm gonna come to the to the defense
of Bengals fans who are freaking out, who are being criticized. If you're
a Bengals fan and you're freaking outwhen you read Burrow not practicing, you
mean to tell me we're not supposedto have some sort of visceral negative,
(05:00):
Oh no, kind of reaction tothat. He is a player coming off
a significant injury. He is aplayer who has a significant injury history.
He is the foundation on top ofwhich everything is built. I saw the
same thing a lot of folks did. Burrow not practicing. My heart skipped
a beat. Now then the maybemore pragmatic side of me comes out,
(05:25):
where it's like, Okay, hedid say he was gonna take some days
off, Zach is gonna talk aboutthis. There's been nothing to suggest that
anything dramatic has happened, but sure, for forty five minutes or so,
I was holding my breath. Andif you're a Bengals fan and you have
a pulse, how could you notbe doing the same thing, No question,
I mean this is and when Isay this is the life now,
(05:46):
because this is this is not justa significant injury. This is an injury
with no precedent, right, Soyou're always worried about what does this mean
because you can't say, well,look a million people have had acls and
they take these times off this timeof year is no this could be it.
This could be the one this somethingbad happened. It's always feels like
it's possible because we're just in theseuncharted waters a little bit with the recovery
(06:11):
from this injury, and so yeah, I think it's very natural for everyone
to freak out, and you should. It matters, okay, like whatever,
the possibility of this being a thingmatters. I'm not saying it is
or isn't, but I mean,you you can't sit here and say,
oh yeah, no big deal,Okay, No, we'll see what it
(06:32):
looks like next week. We'll seeif this continues. I'm totally fine,
and I would suggest do more ofgiving him the day off. Okay,
this time of year, no needto do that. I hope, I
certainly hope that that is one hundredpercent the case for the sake of Joe
Burrow, because that's that makes themost sense out of out of anything.
(06:54):
It is weird though, like ifthat was a known thing, why why
are we waiting until the practice isover to address this? And that's and
that's what I think sent a lotof us to this place where we started
to not assume the worst, butfear the worst. It felt it felt
felt different. Yeah, you don'tlike when it when it feels like this
(07:15):
isn't how this should be going rightright. Yeah, I've I've been following
this team for a long time.There's scar tissue, Okay, I've witnessed
it. Yeah, And so youknow, there was the freak out,
and then there was the admonition ofeverybody who had been freaking out, and
I'm like, dude, if you'reif you're criticizing people for sort of losing
their minds here, like you yougot to understand what we're dealing with and
(07:38):
what we have dealt with before.Yeah, I mean zich Tayler could have
said anything there after practice, right, I mean, he could have said,
look, we've we've decided we're justwe're shutting Joe down for the rest
of the rest of the camp.He could have said that. He could
have said, oh, you know, any anything. I mean, you
expect it to be currently having hisarm amputated, right at this point with
(08:00):
what we've been through, right,what we've seen around here were appendectomies and
calves, right, and risks thatwe've never seen before. Like, is
there anything that would surprise someone?No, I'm only anticipating something that is
truly obscure at this point, right, It's the only thing that would feel
like it would fit. All right, let me make sure what we're covering
all our bases here. Has therebeen anything that you have seen or heard
(08:24):
do suggest that this was anything morethan him just taking a day off.
No, No, I mean hehas participated in everything and generally looked fine.
To this point, I have notheard anything in terms of oh,
yeah, something he's doing this orthat behind the scenes about where that is
not something that I've heard to thispoint. No, if the Bengals had
(08:48):
a game tomorrow, do you thinkhe would be cleared to play in it?
Uh? Tomorrow, probably. Imean he was trying to get cleared
for contact, you know, Idon't I don't know. I mean specifically,
And so as long as the answeris to be clear to play at
(09:09):
the beginning of training camp, Iwould think sure. So as long as
the answer to that question, forme at least, as long as the
answer to that question is I don'tknow, than when you see day off,
you're even more excused for assuming thatmaybe something bad has happened. Yeah,
I mean everyone is Cincinnati, Yes, everyone should assume, right,
(09:31):
Yes, that's what it is aroundYes, right, I mean it would
be if you were talking about somebodywho's never had a problem, or we
have total understanding of their recovery andtheir injury, then fine. The unknown
should make everyone nervous every day.Unfortunately, this is the life that we
have, This is the reality thatwe have to live. Right now,
when you're talking about what it iswith Joe braw That's just what it is,
(09:52):
all right. Uh Well, Ienjoyed the freak out, and I
enjoyed the conversation about the freak out, and I really enjoyed the sigh of
leaf that we all enjoyed when weheard it's it's so funny to send a
tweet and know like, oh,this is there's no way to word this,
to make it not elicit what's gonnahappen next? And then just and
(10:13):
then just turn it off on thelist of tweets that you have said,
because obviously you were at the practicelast year when he was carted off.
Yeah, I mean this wasn't asbad. Burrowing cart, burrowing cart.
Burrow and cart is different than burrownot here. Yeah, burrow and cart.
There's there's a lot of unknown,but there's something tangible there, there's
something substantial, there's a visual,there's hard news. Didn't look good.
(10:35):
Uh. I remember sitting here rightaround this time of afternoon when I saw
I saw the tweet, I sawthe picture, and I by the show
changed that day dramatic. You know, suddenly Tony Pike's down there training camp,
you know, just to take itin the sun and it's like,
hey, kid, you gotta work. So yeah, all right, Paul
Dana Junior is here. Joe Burrowhead today off, we have other things
(10:58):
to discuss with talk about wide receivercontracts, some more. Yes, let's
do it. Paul is a goodpiece on what the Justin Jefferson deal in
Minnesota could mean for the Bengals andJamar Chase. Read that at the Athletic
dot Com or ny Times dot com. Yeah, that's right, there you
go. It's sixteen minutes after threeo'clock. I'm Mowegar. He's Paul Danner
(11:18):
Junior. This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station clent ICs. Okay,
it's twenty minutes after three o'clock.This is ESPN fifteen thirty on Mowegar.
Paul Danner Junior is here from theAthletic dot Com and the Growler Podcast.
Joe Burrow didn't practice today, buteverything's fine, everything's fine, All
(11:39):
is well. Nothing to see here. Jamar Chase is gonna sign his contract
today? No? No, Idon't think so. Why not? I
don't think today's today, tomorrow?No, during Mini Caamp next week.
No, I think he's gonna showup allegedly between Minichamp and training camp.
(12:00):
I don't think so. During trainingcamp. I'm betting against it. Before
the season opener. I'm betting againstit during the season. No, why
not? When are we getting there? I mean, it's complicated. It
(12:22):
was funny, you know, justkind of as I I was planning already
on writing a story about extensions andextension candidates and stuff, and the Jefferson
thing pops up, and it's like, well, I guess it's obvious.
So I kind of just in talkingto people, you know, the Jefferson
thing didn't come as a surprise.I think the race across the league to
(12:45):
get all those receiver extensions done wasis kind of obvious in retrospect now where
the word was out like the market'sgoing to change, Okay, if you
don't get in in front of thisthing, you're not going to probably like
what it looks like on the otherside it. And so you saw seven
extensions, and particularly from players inpositions that you don't normally see them.
(13:07):
And I've we documented and talked aboutit a lot, but the fifth year
option players getting a deal before theirfourth year. First former first round picks
is not a thing like it inreceivers. It hasn't happened like almost ever.
And all of a sudden you hadtwo of them come off the board,
uh with Waddell and Devonte Smith.You' even had penn a soul thrown
(13:28):
in there as another. You're allof a sudden you're seeing this, the
spike in the cap, the pendingJefferson deal, I think, I think
push some of that stuff forward.The thing that changed things is is the
guarantee money there, the full guarantee, which was eighty nine million, which
the previous high for receiver was fiftytwo. So that's the thing, right
(13:52):
and the one hundred and ten obviouslytoo. We know that's an uncomfortable area
for the Cincinnati Bengals, right,and so that is gonna be the point
that they're gonna have to work through. The Bengals have a lot of history
and finding ways to make players happyand ways outside of guarantees, because it's
how they've done every contract except forJoe Burrows. So they'll they'll have to
(14:15):
figure that out. The thing though, is before Chase said hell yeah,
I'm waiting till after Jefferson signs.Now, the Bengals are saying, hell,
yeah, we're waiting until the lastpossible minute to sign you because the
market's not changing now. No one'sshowing up and hopping. Justin Jefferson that
money was crazy and so that's gonnabe the top, that's gonna be where
(14:37):
it's gonna be compared to. So, now, what interest do the Bengals
have in going in early? Soto speak for Jamar Chase now, which
is why we kind of always thoughtthis thing would end at next year anyway,
the same way it did for ajGreen literally getting on the bus before
going to play the opener Joe Burrowliterally the day that the Chiefs Alliance played
(15:00):
to take the season last year.These big deals, things like this that
are known that probably happen they getjust ence this DNA on this team is
this kind of you kind of knowwhat it can be Chiefs Ravens. Thursday
night, September the fin as eitherJustin Tucker or Harrison Bucker is lining up
(15:22):
for the opening kickoff, you'll breakthe story that Jamar Chase has signed his
contract extension. No, no,because it'll be next year. Okay,
I think you're looking I think you'relooking at twenty twenty five would make the
most sense. I mean, that'swhat Jefferson did. And if you're Chase
saying, you know, you kindof bet on yourself, I think I
think the takeaway from this year mightbe, Wow, Jamar earned himself more
(15:46):
money. I mean, if theycan really take some of the stuff that
Minnesota and Justin Roscotti being a partof that group was doing with Jefferson,
and they can use the versatility ofthe other players's positions all we talked about
and truly augment Jamar Moore free himup more. He could be setting up
(16:07):
to have his best season, andhe could be setting up to have a
Jefferson type season with a healthy Borrowthrowing to him. So that number,
it might not look crazy for himto get Justin Jefferson's type of contract.
Next Yer said he just watched andJustin Jefferson turned down reportedly twenty eight million
(16:27):
the year before and turn it intothirty five and all those guarantees. Why
wouldn't he look at that and say, that's cool. If they want to
go to next year, I'll probablybe more expensive next year. You eluded
that, basically breaking the rule,which for the Bengals is, with the
exception of Joe Burrow, we're notsigning guys two years out of the expiration
(16:48):
date of their contract. Excuse me, and you wrote it could open a
Pandora's box for every great Bengals playerto claim they deserve the big guaranteed money
as well. Walk me through howslippery that slope could come for them if
they were to indeed go ahead andget the deal done this offseason. You
could always play Joe Burrow as theexception to the rule. Sure, always
yeah, no matter to the endof the time, to the franchise,
(17:10):
right, like you could always saythat was different franchise quarterback is different than
everybody else. He was different thaneverybody else. That's part of it.
Once you get into other positions.Any the next the next player that comes.
If you broke the rule for Jamar, why you break the rule for
me? Why can't they have drawna line organizationally prior to Burrow that was
(17:33):
pretty clear, Like they're just notinterested in that. They don't feel like
it gives them the flexibility to winand build a roster that they desire.
Things change around here all the time. Obviously post Burrow, you never know
and perhaps Burrow. Burrow's influence iscould influence then doing something different for Chase
(17:53):
as a package. We don't knowwhether this is going to end or what
they're thinking in the like truly innercircle of these conversations, but it would
be a it would be a slipperyslope because what if Cam Taylor brit is
unbelievable this year and he's all proand he's a shutdown and he's all of
a sudden he's playing like prime Durellread now what are you doing? Are
(18:15):
you? Are you trying to tellhim? Yeah, Jamar is different.
He's boys with like you gotta haveyour exception and your They've had their line,
and so this would be sort ofthey can draw the line and say,
well it's it's Burrow is his ownthing. If you go beyond that,
then I think anybody that is justas valuable as your team can make
the same contention. If that's thearea they don't want to go, then
(18:37):
they probably have to draw that linein front of Jamar Chase. I think
they can do it. I thinkthey can throw all kinds of upfront cash
in him like they do all theother guys, and they can pay him
more than justin Jefferson an average annualvalue with less guarantees and get away with
it because that's how they they cantrade the structure. And that's fine.
I think if they wait, youwill have folks who look at the t
(18:59):
Higgins situation and then say, well, you didn't pay Tea and you put
yourself in the situation where you knowit's it's not a circus, but it's
it hovers over the team. You'veput yourself in a position where it hovers
over the team. But you werewilling to do that because you were going
to pay Jamar, and then sothe Jefferson deal got done. So then
just go ahead and pay Jamar.But I you know, I think both
(19:22):
sides would, though, would seean advantage in playing out playing out this
year. Like I said, Imean, I don't think there would be
a ton of animastics. I thinkeverybody kind of thought that it would go
to the same place that I'm talkingabout now going to next year. I
think everybody befin. I mean,because it went that way with Jefferson,
and that's how Jamar wants this thingto end. I think it's okay for
(19:44):
it to follow that path. Morethan he probably would care with it following
the tea path because I don't thinkhe thinks it's going to end at the
tea path. I think he knowswhere he stands in terms of look,
he's gonna get it. That's thething I think that's the bottom of that
really matters. I never know ifanybody gives a hoot about all of these
financials, is he gonna be herelong term? Right? Nobody? Does
(20:08):
anybody really care how much money hemakes and the and if it's the greatest
value they want Jamar Chase to playwith Joe Burrow for the duration of the
time that you're a fan of theBengals, if you're listening to this,
right, that's what matters. Andto me that I don't think the Jefferson
deal I don't think changed that.It's he's gonna it's they're gonna be expensive.
You knew it was gonna be expensive. But it's very valuable to have
(20:32):
a franchise quarterback with an unbelievable elitenumber one who he hasn't you know,
chemistry, wistness. Today they startedplaying football. One more thing on this
because you know the Bengals will takesome criticism for allowing it to get to
this point. The Jamar Chase,you know, has said on the record,
Yeah, and in a in anaffable, sort of humorous way,
I want to see Justin Jefferson gethis thing done. And you point this
(20:53):
out in your piece, but Ithink it's worth doubling down on. That
wasn't just a funny viral moment.His position all along has been I want
to see what happens in Minnesota.So there's really to this point nothing the
Bengals could have done. He knewwhat everybody knew. Justin Jefferson is gonna
have such a high number, andthere's very few people in this league that
can claim they deserve anywhere near it. And you can argue rightfully that Chase's
(21:18):
production to this point does not deserveto match Justin Jefferson. Jefferson has been
otherworldly. We've never seen anything likeit in terms of that production. But
you know, I guess him,I guess guess you're talking about ceedee lamb.
I'm not in the same breath.Chase could be the only person can
say I probably could get something closeto that. So why wouldn't he sit
and wait for that number to beestablished? And then go from there.
(21:41):
He's a year behind and didn't haveto rush, so I don't. Yeah,
I think everybody assumed it was gonnago this way. Jamar is saying
that was just his speaking the truth. I mean, I don't think that
that was him spilling anything. HeHiggins got a four part piece from you,
Jamar will get how many. Iwas tempted. I tempted. I
have a whole other I do havea second part to that story that I
(22:03):
wanted to dive more into. ButI was like, I can't go doing
the parts again, Like, yecan't. Why not? I can't?
No, why not? Put there'sthe centerpiece of the off season. There
will be more written about it.I'm not titling it as a part series.
There will be more written about JamarChase. I want to. I
want to do a lot more onhow they can they can implement him to
play justin Jefferson in this offense.I do think that's a really interesting storyline
(22:27):
for this year. I wasn't gonnacall it part two. Okay, maybe
I'll do just for you so youmean that'll be well, that'd be great,
but that'll be a piece that's actuallyabout football. And not corrap not
not all the rest of it.Yeah, and speculations on numbers and markets
and caps and bowls so much.I actually do have some questions about football,
(22:52):
yes, and we'll get to themwhen we come back. Paul Danner
Junior, The Athletic dot Com TheGrowler Podcast. It is twenty eight minutes
away from four o'clock. Follow Paulon x at Paul Danner Junior. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports StationCincy three sixty with Tony Pike. Do
we want to move on? DoctorKeith Gory and Boston Elmore. I think
(23:12):
you should continue to let me keepgoing there, Cincy three sixty Tomorrow which
twelve News on ESPN fifteen thirty,Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. Well Lifetime power
train protection that guaranteed credit approval fromtheir family to yours for life. Kelseyshev
dot com begals had an OTA today. Sheldon Rankins was there. Yeah,
(23:33):
big news. Joe Burrow had theday off. Why was Sheldon not at
the other OTAs? Because it's voluntary, voluntary, He's older, he knows
better any any Jamar Chase News andthen the five minutes that we were away,
No, okay. I. Meanwhile, the Reds and Rockies again tonight
in Denver Cincinnati, looking for aseries win for the third time in fourth
(23:55):
series. They give the bald toFrankie montas Tyle block throws for Colorado.
No starting lineup out yet. Firstpitch tonight, eight forty on a seven
hundred WLW Blake Dunn has been calledup from Louisville and the team is optioned
down to Triple A Nick Martini PaulDander juniors. Here from the Athletic dot
Com. How many more Ellie takes? Like you have to have one a
(24:18):
new one every day? Is thatlike a thing that you have to be
doing right now? Is every day? We have to make a broad brush
statement about his future based on hisperformance from the evening. I've got a
new one later, Yeah, thatI think might be my last new one.
I don't know what's more difficult,Like if you have I talked to
soccer announcers about Lucho Acosta and Igo like, do you kind of run
(24:42):
out of superlatives? Do you runout of adjectives? We could do this
with Joe Burrow, right, likedo you just run out of things?
To say because he's just consistently great. Is that more difficult than talking about
Ellie de la Cruz and the Ellieroller coaster where for a month he looked
like the greatest baseball player of alltime and then the next month it looks
(25:03):
like he never played the sport before. I don't know what's more difficult.
No, it's it's so any ofthese young players where you're so counted on
to just pass the development stage andget no aim, get absolutely no pass
on it. You know, it'slike you're you're not allowed to have struggles
(25:27):
to develop if you just go back. I always love doing this, Like,
can we just go talk about historicallike people that have gone through the
same struggle where you're talk about baseball, football, whatever, where oh,
the first year or two there thisand then you see year three, you
typically see this jump at this point. Nobody gives time for that anymore,
Like nobody gives time for that.Like the idea of Ellie playing at the
(25:51):
level he did at that first monthand then having a bad month is something
that so many young players. That'sthe next step. Okay, now you're
seeing a month where he can doit well and then has a month off
and then and then you get theselonger streaks and then that that bad part
gets whittled down a little bit moreover time, and you either take that
jump or you don't. I mean, I always go back. Always think
(26:12):
about Todd Frasier, Right, hewas like twenty six and all of a
sudden it just clicks right, andhe's just hitting bombs and and he's this
beloved player and having these great seasons. And I'm not comparing the two,
but I'm just saying like it cantake a lot longer for some guys,
and he you, these guys wouldgo through at bat after at bat for
(26:33):
thousands of at bats, and theminers, yep, much less having to
come and go through this at thebig league level and be capable of having
a month like you at the bigleg level. It's just I hate,
now, this is the person whowas certainly accused of a lot of things
Jamar Chase's training camp as a rookie. But for that reason that experience really
(26:56):
cemented we just everyone needs to backoff in the constant analyzation of every day
and every week. As Okay,I've decided this now about a prospect,
a hot top prospect. You know, it's it's unfair. Yeah, it's
I mean, it's why I wishhe was on a better team. Because
(27:18):
the fact that they haven't been goodin quite a while, and the fact
that he is the central figure inthis large collection of dudes who are supposed
to make the Reds better, hestands out. I wish he was on
the sort of team that was sogood that he could be allowed to just
assimilate and he's going to be apiece, and he's going to be a
cog, but not everything has torevolve around him. This the way the
(27:41):
team is constructed right now, inlarge part because of the injuries it has
taken on a Ellie has to carrya larger load than he's capable of.
Dynamic, Yeah, and that justintensifies the scrutiny on him, which is
not fair to him. I wishhe was on a better team so his
struggles could not hurt the team andhis successes could only amplify it. That's
(28:03):
not the case. Last year wasso much easier to tolerate, you know,
the like questions about if he's goingto be the guy or just be
kind of a messy prospect because you'relike everyone was so excited about all the
other guys. You know, it'slike, oh, McLean and Steer and
Marte and and it's okay, andit just kind of blends. He's like,
oh, maybe that one won't panout. But now because they're out,
and because he has played levely has, it becomes so much more the
(28:26):
focal point and conversation piece every singleday. And it's just that stuff.
I mean, it can be exhausting, you can't because you take the fun
out of just enjoying watching him.I guess in a lot of ways.
Look it in the moment, itcan be frustrating, but you signed up
for that. Yeah, like yousigned up for that roller coaster. Uh,
And I'm enjoying it. And Istill feel like there have been more
(28:48):
highs than lows. But it's it'san interesting it's an interesting dynamic. And
I said this on the show yesterday. I think we're in this day and
age where people are addicted to beingright, and so I believe in our
mid are Reds fans, people whoidentify as Reds fans who want to be
right so bad they're secretly and maybeeven not so secretly rooting for him.
To fail. I hate that.I hate that, well, I mean
(29:11):
and like I love it when I'mwrong about something that can make me happy.
If Ellie de la Cruz is greatand you are out on him,
wouldn't you love to be wrong?And I think there's a you talk about
a minority, but a vocal one. I think there's a vocal minority that
is reveling in the fact that he'sstruggling now to throw it in the faces
of those of us who think he'sgoing to be great. Yeah, And
(29:34):
that's just part of that's part oftoday's day and age of the way sports
are looked at it. It's notsports every yes, he's looked at this
way. It's just how loud andabsurd can I be about my opinion and
just waiting for the first instant possibleto express it even louder if if it
(29:56):
looks like it may be right,and no account of if it was wrong
and thought and I that that whole, that whole part. It's kind of
it goes back to the Burrow conversation, like we don't have to freak out
about today. Guess what we'll findout next week. We'll watch in training
camp this whole thing is a longprocess that we should be judging when it
(30:19):
matters, and I think in whetherit's Burrow leading into week one or in
the middle of training camp, orEllie judging his whole season. And if
you see the big jump that youexpect to see by the time we get
into September, then I think thatto me is what you need. But
you're never you know, that's notwhat it is like. That's you're never
(30:41):
gonna You're gonna ever see patience.It's quarter to four Paul Danner Junior on
the Bengals at the Athletic dot comand the Growler Podcast on Twitter slash x
at Paul Danner Junior. A fewmore things to get to, including a
good piece in The Athletic about somethingthat I kind of hope doesn't happen.
Next on ESPN fifteen thirty cents atEyes Sports Station, the pickup Truck Christ
(31:02):
that's with Paul Taylor Junior from TheAthletic and the Growler Podcast. Joe Burrow
had today off. He did weleave it at that? That's it.
Nothing to see here. Next weekis a mandatory mini camp. Yeah,
what's interesting about next week? Giveme one or two things. I think
that you I you'll get the closesttaste to some of the training camp stuff,
(31:26):
a little bit more of a realseven on seven, eleven on eleven
trying to test people. Yeah,you know, not a lot, but
the little taste for which we don'tsee much of around around here this time
of year. And I think thatcan mean something for people like well for
(31:47):
Burrow, if you assuming he practicesand throws, obviously he's going to be
the centerpiece of judging every every throws. We just discussed in the last segment
whether you should or shouldn't, Butthat's part of it. People like Dax
Hill, some of the young players, Burton like a lot of it.
Where where are the rookies at?They've they've thrown a lot at these guys
(32:07):
and cycled new stuff through. Okay, let's redo the first week's stuff again
and we'll see where you're at.So when time you show up for training
camp you can truly be judged.Well, they have one chance before that
to kind of do the last kindof test on some of these rookies.
How much did they take in whereare they at with understanding everything? And
so you can get some of thatstuff next week. But I think it
(32:30):
gets this time of year, specificallywith this team, gets so overblown,
like none of this stuff is,in their eyes, truly changing much,
and it's just about setting a foundationfor what they do. In August,
a bunch of your colleagues at theAthletic Canvas people around the NFL about this
(32:53):
NFLPA proposal that would dramatically reshape theoffseason. We would basically get rid of
OTAs and then slap on to lateJune early July a ramp up to training
camp, which would effectively lengthen trainingcamp, so you'd have more time,
a longer stretch of uninterrupted time away, but you would basically be lengthening the
(33:15):
season. Is there anybody who's infavor of this. I'm yet to meet
them or talk to them. Imean, it's really hard to find somebody
that thinks this is a good idea. There's just there's so much advantage to
having that break where it currently is, for for players, for staff,
(33:42):
for anyone that works in the league, and that there's are the people are
that are affected by this, Okay, and and so the league needs the
time where everyone has summer, kidsare out of school, families. Do
players not have kids in school?Like? Is that not? Those people
don't matter? I mean that's partof this too. Ingreatied. Sure,
(34:04):
and guess what all this voluntary Guyscan choose to skip that too if they
want to and still have both.I mean, I just think there is
nobody that I've really found that thinksthat this will fly or is anything other
than some kind of a weird partof a bigger picture negotiation with this,
with the floating of the eighteenth gamething that Roger Goodell did and all that
(34:27):
off the field stuff that I knowpeople really love hearing about why you love
it's why you love sports. Yeah. Is Evan McPherson going to get a
contract extension this offseason? I thinkso he would be. He would be
a top candidate. I would thinkprobably one year left. Noah, Yeah,
he's like the one guy. AndI mean the template there's these Kicker
(34:50):
deals have been done. It's notover the top. They have money.
It would seem like an easy thingto do. Last year we saw I
want him to reset the Kicker market. Know he reset the Kicker market.
I'm obsessed with this. He deservesit. Let's put McPherson versus Tucker numbers
up on the screen. Right now, let's break it down. I want
to Kicker guarantees need to be atopic. I mean, I just come
(35:16):
on now, Yeah, Evan needsto hold out until he gets second year
kicker guarantees. Okay, I actuallyjust talked to Evan today about if he's
practicing his tackling really because of thenew role, the new rule in Kansas
City's like, look, Justin Reidmight be kicking something for us. Yeah.
I actually talked to Logan Wilson becausehe kicks every once in a while
(35:37):
in practice, like on Fridays.He he kicked in high school. I
was like, would you be theguy? Yes? And he was like,
I mean we joked about it hasn'tgotten to that point yet, but
you know you're gonna that is realthat the new kickoff is going to have
the safety valve potentially involved more often. Evan did specify he is not practicing
tackling at any point in the nearfuture. Okay, good, Okay,
(36:00):
So not counting on him, butI am really interested in the preseason,
but really, when the games begin, to see how this gets executed,
implemented, and how teams approach it. The Kansas City's got a lot of
run because of what they may dowith Justin Reid. But that's a really
fascinating storyline, and I'm excited they'redoing this because now the kickoff is an
(36:22):
actual play that I have to payattention to him. I am, I
love most fascinated with somebody like DarrenSimmons and especial teamers in general. They've
been they've been giving, they've beengiven just a blank slate. Yeah,
there's no technique, right, that'sbeen there's no history really outside of whatever
we're making of the XFL. Likethe athletes a little different here. It
can be a game changer, andso I think the way it looks in
(36:45):
the idea in these coaches heads,and the way it looks in preseason and
even in week one and two couldbe very different than what we start seeing,
where you could see by week ninethe whole league see stuff and is
changing their philosophy, you know,one hundred and eighty degrees because you're seeing
success with something that one team triedand another team had success with. So
(37:06):
it's it's a really fascinating thing.And I think the process of everyone that
you know, the people I talkto you about today are sort of like,
yeah, we're all kind of inthe brainstorming portion of the program of
like what if we did this,what if we did that? What type
of player do you need? Andit's that they need they need more bigger
players. They like smaller wiggle guysare going to be less a part of
the kickoff, the kickoff for turngame on the line because it's so much
(37:28):
more about you know, stacking andshedding one on one and stuff like that,
and the little guy isn't going tohave as much of a role.
Does that eliminate a receiver position onthe back of your roster? Does it
you keep extra tight ends? There'sthere is ramifications all over the place,
and that they're all every team iskind of weighing right now and kind of
starting for scratch. And we geta landing zone in the NFL. Love
landing zone. Love landing zone,man, the graphics landing zone could definitely
(37:52):
be a very sponsorable ground I justI mean, look, you cover the
sport as fans, we obsess over, but there are very casual fans for
whom they put the NFL away whenthe Super Bowl ends and they're gonna turn
on that first game and teams aregonna be lining up for the opening kickoff.
Oh boy, yeah, it's gonnabe it's it looks jarring, like
(38:13):
I think, like my wife,right yeah, like the first time we
sit down that first Thursday night gamethe NFL. She likes to watch football,
but she's not following rule changes,And so we turn that game on
that first Thursday. It's Ravens v. Chiefs, and she's gonna look at
me like, what on earth arethey doing? What is happening? I've
already boned up on how to explainit to her. It's gonna be terrific.
(38:35):
It's gonna take some time, itis, because it's gonna be takeings
to watching the preseason. I don'tknow. Give me, give me kickoff
returns man, Yes, give mekick off football plays. I'm all about
it. Do you think more teamswill use their good players on that play
instead of not using them like we'vehad? I think so. I think.
I think certainly early on as theytry to figure out what it is
(38:57):
and what it can be. Ithink because I think they're scared of it
too, right, Like, arewe gonna get burnt? On kickoff returns
over and over again. If wehave backups in there, they can't make
place. Yeah, it's it's there'sa lot of learning that's gonna happen.
It's gonna be a critical preseason forit, for sure. I can't wait.
I'm all about I'm excited. I'mall about it. All right,
next week you'll join us from aftermini camp. Yeah, I hope oh
(39:22):
Burrow takes a day off. Isay that note. We just we just
need him because it's I'm selfishly Yeah, looking at this, he just needs
to go out look totally normal nextweek because the worst case scenario is he
doesn't take part. And now we'vegot all summer until we get to July
twenty seventh for people to worry andspeculate, and then you'll see him in
(39:45):
the street and will be questioning didhe was he? Was he flexing his
wrist getting getting like a sandwich atthe deli? We're gonna. I don't
want to. I just can't.I can't. Paul Danner Junior, The
Athletic and The Growlar Podcast, thankyou, four o'clock, fifteen thirty.
Of course, I'm Christine Lacy,a lifetime suspension from Major League Baseball for
(40:07):
Padres infielder who took a Peter marcanollfor betting on the scot plays bets on
games in twenty twenty two and twentytwenty three when he was with the Pirates
organization. While commission Rob Manfred's gotconcerns with gambling, they're not enough to
end Baseball's partnerships with gambling operations andthe money made from them. ESPN MLB
insider Jeff Passing to me, ifyou're really that concerned that this is a
(40:30):
top priority of yours, then you'regoing to do everything you can, including
getting rid of partnerships with these companies. But the league has shown no inclination
to do that, and they're happyto throw the players onto the bus.
And I understand that because the playershave free will. Jeff Passen on Freddy
and Harry. San Francisco's Christian McCaffreyhas again reset the NFL running back market.
(40:52):
Signed a two year extension. ESPN'sAdam Schefter reports, averaging nineteen million
dollars a year. Receiver Brandon Ayuxikian extension absent from the start of mandatory
miniicamp. Today, receiver CD lamba no show for the start of Cowboys
Mini Caamp. He's looking for anextension as well. Hey, it's the
resident Super Bowl chap Chris Kennedy comingon Wednesday. As Mini caamps continue,
(41:15):
I'll give you my biggest story linesthat I'm paying attention to. It's U
Sport's been like six am Eastern righthere on ESPN Radio, ESPN two,
and ESPN You. This report issponsored by e Bay Motors
Fifteen thirty. What's up, Goodafternoon on my lendar. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty. Thank you so muchfor joining us. Hopefully you're having an
unreal Tuesday afternoon. We have alot to get to today. Red's win
last night. They've now won sevenout of ten. Eli Dela Cruz hit
the ball hard. Eli Dela Cruisealso booted of all in short stop.
(00:22):
We'll spend time on both. JoeBurrow made us all freak out today.
Paul Danner Junior is here to talkabout that. I've got a bold prediction
in the five o'clock hour, abold Cincinnati sports prediction. I'm not even
sure it's that bold, but it'sa prediction, and maybe it's bold.
We'll find out in the five o'clockhour. And a Major League Baseball player
who is terrible at gambling has beenbooted from the sport permanently. We have
(00:47):
to discuss also a big WNBA topic. But first, Paul's here. It's
Tuesday. We've been apart from eachother for a couple of weeks. We
have been a while. It hasbeen a while, and we show up
and things happen. Yeah, itturns out to be very well timed,
very well timed. The old Dannerjunior covering the Bengals for the Athletic dot
Com and podcasting the Growler podcast,of which I was a part while you
(01:11):
were out of town. A goodring of honor discussion. Really good.
Yeah, No, I love thatdiscussion. I thought it was great you.
I'm not gonna say that you swayedme because I was in the same
area that you were on a fewof those topics. But I think you
cemented that some of the thoughts thatI were having were correct. Okay,
and I if you know, DaveLapham gets in and the Bengals decide to
(01:37):
do the right thing, and thatfifty years put him in. I like
to think that you should be presentinghim, you think so. I think
you're leading away. I think you'releading the way. You've led the way
here and and spearheaded the MOO andthe movement. And none of his former
teammates, No, not as notas broadcast partner, absolutely not. No.
Ju for your incredible persuasive speech onthe podcast. Okay, well,
(02:01):
I'm I'm not gonna I'm gonna I'mgonna campaign assuming that lat gets in,
So hope he does. I'm gonnacampaign. Yeah, I do have a
question about that. All right,So the news of the day is really
no news. Well yeah, Imean sort of. But is there such
a thing as no news when itcomes to number nine? So Joe Burrow
(02:24):
didn't practice. This is our life, mo I get it. This is
what it is now. But here'sthe thing. Okay, So Joe Burrow
did not practice today. I'm sureeverybody listening to us knows that. And
for about an hour there was aninternet freak out. Yeah, and really
every day there's an Internet freak outabout something. There's probably an Internet freak
(02:45):
out about something right now that I'mjust not aware of. But there was
an Internet freak out, and Ithink to a degree it was caused by
how the Bengals. And I'm notsaying they did anything wrong, but when
you read, at least from myperspective, Joe's not practicing, Zach going
to explain afterwards, that's that's notregular, that's not normal. No,
And then it turned out it wasa little bit of a misunderstandings as it
(03:06):
relates to when you guys were thereversus when they thought you were there,
and the timing of that around whenJoe took a day off. Yeah,
that's that's the point made by ZachTaylor afterwards, was they've given him this
essentially the second day off of eachweek. They've they've tried not to do
more than two days in a row. And uh they previously the first day
(03:29):
had been on Tuesdays, and theycame in a day earlier this week,
and he was claiming him not realizingthat we were going to be here today
and not yesterday was part of theconfusion. And that's that's fine. I
mean, I don't I don't know. You you take people will will stand
in the corner and say no,they're lying to you, and other people
stand in the corner say I believeeverything they say. It doesn't matter.
(03:53):
You know. This was always gonnabe about training camp. Uh huh.
This was always it's not like we'renever gonna see him again, Okay to
judge. Okay, So if Itend to take them at their word today
and guess where guess we're all benext Tuesday, I'll be there right expecting
to see Joe Burrow next week andjudging it only looks. But this was
(04:14):
always going to be about how helooks in trading camp when it's eleven on
eleven and he's showing where he's atin relation to the season, whatever is
happening. If they want to givehim days off now, fine, If
that's what happened today, fine,If they're covering up something else, fine,
it doesn't really matter. We're gonnajudge it on where it looks down
the line. I understand the theinstant reaction. Yeah, I mean,
(04:38):
there's no question because this is right, this is what this is, that
what starts right. Well, yeah, and so I said when I was
just all with Tony and Austin,I'm gonna come to the to the defense
of Bengals fans who are freaking out, who are being criticized. If you're
a Bengals fan and you're freaking outwhen you read Burrow not practicing, you
mean to tell me we're not supposedto have some sort of visceral negative,
(05:00):
Oh no, kind of reaction tothat. He is a player coming off
a significant injury. He is aplayer who has a significant injury history.
He is the foundation on top ofwhich everything is built. I saw the
same thing a lot of folks did. Burrow not practicing. My heart skipped
a beat. Now then the maybemore pragmatic side of me comes out,
(05:25):
where it's like, Okay, hedid say he was gonna take some days
off, Zach is gonna talk aboutthis. There's been nothing to suggest that
anything dramatic has happened, but sure, for forty five minutes or so,
I was holding my breath. Andif you're a Bengals fan and you have
a pulse, how could you notbe doing the same thing, No question,
I mean this is and when Isay this is the life now,
(05:46):
because this is this is not justa significant injury. This is an injury
with no precedent, right, Soyou're always worried about what does this mean
because you can't say, well,look a million people have had acls and
they take these times off this timeof year is no this could be it.
This could be the one this somethingbad happened. It's always feels like
it's possible because we're just in theseuncharted waters a little bit with the recovery
(06:11):
from this injury, and so yeah, I think it's very natural for everyone
to freak out, and you should. It matters, okay, like whatever,
the possibility of this being a thingmatters. I'm not saying it is
or isn't, but I mean,you you can't sit here and say,
oh yeah, no big deal,Okay, No, we'll see what it
(06:32):
looks like next week. We'll seeif this continues. I'm totally fine,
and I would suggest do more ofgiving him the day off. Okay,
this time of year, no needto do that. I hope, I
certainly hope that that is one hundredpercent the case for the sake of Joe
Burrow, because that's that makes themost sense out of out of anything.
(06:54):
It is weird though, like ifthat was a known thing, why why
are we waiting until the practice isover to address this? And that's and
that's what I think sent a lotof us to this place where we started
to not assume the worst, butfear the worst. It felt it felt
felt different. Yeah, you don'tlike when it when it feels like this
(07:15):
isn't how this should be going rightright. Yeah, I've I've been following
this team for a long time.There's scar tissue, Okay, I've witnessed
it. Yeah, And so youknow, there was the freak out,
and then there was the admonition ofeverybody who had been freaking out, and
I'm like, dude, if you'reif you're criticizing people for sort of losing
their minds here, like you yougot to understand what we're dealing with and
(07:38):
what we have dealt with before.Yeah, I mean zich Tayler could have
said anything there after practice, right, I mean, he could have said,
look, we've we've decided we're justwe're shutting Joe down for the rest
of the rest of the camp.He could have said that. He could
have said, oh, you know, any anything. I mean, you
expect it to be currently having hisarm amputated, right at this point with
(08:00):
what we've been through, right,what we've seen around here were appendectomies and
calves, right, and risks thatwe've never seen before. Like, is
there anything that would surprise someone?No, I'm only anticipating something that is
truly obscure at this point, right, It's the only thing that would feel
like it would fit. All right, let me make sure what we're covering
all our bases here. Has therebeen anything that you have seen or heard
(08:24):
do suggest that this was anything morethan him just taking a day off.
No, No, I mean hehas participated in everything and generally looked fine.
To this point, I have notheard anything in terms of oh,
yeah, something he's doing this orthat behind the scenes about where that is
not something that I've heard to thispoint. No, if the Bengals had
(08:48):
a game tomorrow, do you thinkhe would be cleared to play in it?
Uh? Tomorrow, probably. Imean he was trying to get cleared
for contact, you know, Idon't I don't know. I mean specifically,
And so as long as the answeris to be clear to play at
(09:09):
the beginning of training camp, Iwould think sure. So as long as
the answer to that question, forme at least, as long as the
answer to that question is I don'tknow, than when you see day off,
you're even more excused for assuming thatmaybe something bad has happened. Yeah,
I mean everyone is Cincinnati, Yes, everyone should assume, right,
(09:31):
Yes, that's what it is aroundYes, right, I mean it would
be if you were talking about somebodywho's never had a problem, or we
have total understanding of their recovery andtheir injury, then fine. The unknown
should make everyone nervous every day.Unfortunately, this is the life that we
have, This is the reality thatwe have to live. Right now,
when you're talking about what it iswith Joe braw That's just what it is,
(09:52):
all right. Uh Well, Ienjoyed the freak out, and I
enjoyed the conversation about the freak out, and I really enjoyed the sigh of
leaf that we all enjoyed when weheard it's it's so funny to send a
tweet and know like, oh,this is there's no way to word this,
to make it not elicit what's gonnahappen next? And then just and
(10:13):
then just turn it off on thelist of tweets that you have said,
because obviously you were at the practicelast year when he was carted off.
Yeah, I mean this wasn't asbad. Burrowing cart, burrowing cart.
Burrow and cart is different than burrownot here. Yeah, burrow and cart.
There's there's a lot of unknown,but there's something tangible there, there's
something substantial, there's a visual,there's hard news. Didn't look good.
(10:35):
Uh. I remember sitting here rightaround this time of afternoon when I saw
I saw the tweet, I sawthe picture, and I by the show
changed that day dramatic. You know, suddenly Tony Pike's down there training camp,
you know, just to take itin the sun and it's like,
hey, kid, you gotta work. So yeah, all right, Paul
Dana Junior is here. Joe Burrowhead today off, we have other things
(10:58):
to discuss with talk about wide receivercontracts, some more. Yes, let's
do it. Paul is a goodpiece on what the Justin Jefferson deal in
Minnesota could mean for the Bengals andJamar Chase. Read that at the Athletic
dot Com or ny Times dot com. Yeah, that's right, there you
go. It's sixteen minutes after threeo'clock. I'm Mowegar. He's Paul Danner
(11:18):
Junior. This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station clent ICs. Okay,
it's twenty minutes after three o'clock.This is ESPN fifteen thirty on Mowegar.
Paul Danner Junior is here from theAthletic dot Com and the Growler Podcast.
Joe Burrow didn't practice today, buteverything's fine, everything's fine, All
(11:39):
is well. Nothing to see here. Jamar Chase is gonna sign his contract
today? No? No, Idon't think so. Why not? I
don't think today's today, tomorrow?No, during Mini Caamp next week.
No, I think he's gonna showup allegedly between Minichamp and training camp.
(12:00):
I don't think so. During trainingcamp. I'm betting against it. Before
the season opener. I'm betting againstit during the season. No, why
not? When are we getting there? I mean, it's complicated. It
(12:22):
was funny, you know, justkind of as I I was planning already
on writing a story about extensions andextension candidates and stuff, and the Jefferson
thing pops up, and it's like, well, I guess it's obvious.
So I kind of just in talkingto people, you know, the Jefferson
thing didn't come as a surprise.I think the race across the league to
(12:45):
get all those receiver extensions done wasis kind of obvious in retrospect now where
the word was out like the market'sgoing to change, Okay, if you
don't get in in front of thisthing, you're not going to probably like
what it looks like on the otherside it. And so you saw seven
extensions, and particularly from players inpositions that you don't normally see them.
(13:07):
And I've we documented and talked aboutit a lot, but the fifth year
option players getting a deal before theirfourth year. First former first round picks
is not a thing like it inreceivers. It hasn't happened like almost ever.
And all of a sudden you hadtwo of them come off the board,
uh with Waddell and Devonte Smith.You' even had penn a soul thrown
(13:28):
in there as another. You're allof a sudden you're seeing this, the
spike in the cap, the pendingJefferson deal, I think, I think
push some of that stuff forward.The thing that changed things is is the
guarantee money there, the full guarantee, which was eighty nine million, which
the previous high for receiver was fiftytwo. So that's the thing, right
(13:52):
and the one hundred and ten obviouslytoo. We know that's an uncomfortable area
for the Cincinnati Bengals, right,and so that is gonna be the point
that they're gonna have to work through. The Bengals have a lot of history
and finding ways to make players happyand ways outside of guarantees, because it's
how they've done every contract except forJoe Burrows. So they'll they'll have to
(14:15):
figure that out. The thing though, is before Chase said hell yeah,
I'm waiting till after Jefferson signs.Now, the Bengals are saying, hell,
yeah, we're waiting until the lastpossible minute to sign you because the
market's not changing now. No one'sshowing up and hopping. Justin Jefferson that
money was crazy and so that's gonnabe the top, that's gonna be where
(14:37):
it's gonna be compared to. So, now, what interest do the Bengals
have in going in early? Soto speak for Jamar Chase now, which
is why we kind of always thoughtthis thing would end at next year anyway,
the same way it did for ajGreen literally getting on the bus before
going to play the opener Joe Burrowliterally the day that the Chiefs Alliance played
(15:00):
to take the season last year.These big deals, things like this that
are known that probably happen they getjust ence this DNA on this team is
this kind of you kind of knowwhat it can be Chiefs Ravens. Thursday
night, September the fin as eitherJustin Tucker or Harrison Bucker is lining up
(15:22):
for the opening kickoff, you'll breakthe story that Jamar Chase has signed his
contract extension. No, no,because it'll be next year. Okay,
I think you're looking I think you'relooking at twenty twenty five would make the
most sense. I mean, that'swhat Jefferson did. And if you're Chase
saying, you know, you kindof bet on yourself, I think I
think the takeaway from this year mightbe, Wow, Jamar earned himself more
(15:46):
money. I mean, if theycan really take some of the stuff that
Minnesota and Justin Roscotti being a partof that group was doing with Jefferson,
and they can use the versatility ofthe other players's positions all we talked about
and truly augment Jamar Moore free himup more. He could be setting up
(16:07):
to have his best season, andhe could be setting up to have a
Jefferson type season with a healthy Borrowthrowing to him. So that number,
it might not look crazy for himto get Justin Jefferson's type of contract.
Next Yer said he just watched andJustin Jefferson turned down reportedly twenty eight million
(16:27):
the year before and turn it intothirty five and all those guarantees. Why
wouldn't he look at that and say, that's cool. If they want to
go to next year, I'll probablybe more expensive next year. You eluded
that, basically breaking the rule,which for the Bengals is, with the
exception of Joe Burrow, we're notsigning guys two years out of the expiration
(16:48):
date of their contract. Excuse me, and you wrote it could open a
Pandora's box for every great Bengals playerto claim they deserve the big guaranteed money
as well. Walk me through howslippery that slope could come for them if
they were to indeed go ahead andget the deal done this offseason. You
could always play Joe Burrow as theexception to the rule. Sure, always
yeah, no matter to the endof the time, to the franchise,
(17:10):
right, like you could always saythat was different franchise quarterback is different than
everybody else. He was different thaneverybody else. That's part of it.
Once you get into other positions.Any the next the next player that comes.
If you broke the rule for Jamar, why you break the rule for
me? Why can't they have drawna line organizationally prior to Burrow that was
(17:33):
pretty clear, Like they're just notinterested in that. They don't feel like
it gives them the flexibility to winand build a roster that they desire.
Things change around here all the time. Obviously post Burrow, you never know
and perhaps Burrow. Burrow's influence iscould influence then doing something different for Chase
(17:53):
as a package. We don't knowwhether this is going to end or what
they're thinking in the like truly innercircle of these conversations, but it would
be a it would be a slipperyslope because what if Cam Taylor brit is
unbelievable this year and he's all proand he's a shutdown and he's all of
a sudden he's playing like prime Durellread now what are you doing? Are
(18:15):
you? Are you trying to tellhim? Yeah, Jamar is different.
He's boys with like you gotta haveyour exception and your They've had their line,
and so this would be sort ofthey can draw the line and say,
well it's it's Burrow is his ownthing. If you go beyond that,
then I think anybody that is justas valuable as your team can make
the same contention. If that's thearea they don't want to go, then
(18:37):
they probably have to draw that linein front of Jamar Chase. I think
they can do it. I thinkthey can throw all kinds of upfront cash
in him like they do all theother guys, and they can pay him
more than justin Jefferson an average annualvalue with less guarantees and get away with
it because that's how they they cantrade the structure. And that's fine.
I think if they wait, youwill have folks who look at the t
(18:59):
Higgins situation and then say, well, you didn't pay Tea and you put
yourself in the situation where you knowit's it's not a circus, but it's
it hovers over the team. You'veput yourself in a position where it hovers
over the team. But you werewilling to do that because you were going
to pay Jamar, and then sothe Jefferson deal got done. So then
just go ahead and pay Jamar.But I you know, I think both
(19:22):
sides would, though, would seean advantage in playing out playing out this
year. Like I said, Imean, I don't think there would be
a ton of animastics. I thinkeverybody kind of thought that it would go
to the same place that I'm talkingabout now going to next year. I
think everybody befin. I mean,because it went that way with Jefferson,
and that's how Jamar wants this thingto end. I think it's okay for
(19:44):
it to follow that path. Morethan he probably would care with it following
the tea path because I don't thinkhe thinks it's going to end at the
tea path. I think he knowswhere he stands in terms of look,
he's gonna get it. That's thething I think that's the bottom of that
really matters. I never know ifanybody gives a hoot about all of these
financials, is he gonna be herelong term? Right? Nobody? Does
(20:08):
anybody really care how much money hemakes and the and if it's the greatest
value they want Jamar Chase to playwith Joe Burrow for the duration of the
time that you're a fan of theBengals, if you're listening to this,
right, that's what matters. Andto me that I don't think the Jefferson
deal I don't think changed that.It's he's gonna it's they're gonna be expensive.
You knew it was gonna be expensive. But it's very valuable to have
(20:32):
a franchise quarterback with an unbelievable elitenumber one who he hasn't you know,
chemistry, wistness. Today they startedplaying football. One more thing on this
because you know the Bengals will takesome criticism for allowing it to get to
this point. The Jamar Chase,you know, has said on the record,
Yeah, and in a in anaffable, sort of humorous way,
I want to see Justin Jefferson gethis thing done. And you point this
(20:53):
out in your piece, but Ithink it's worth doubling down on. That
wasn't just a funny viral moment.His position all along has been I want
to see what happens in Minnesota.So there's really to this point nothing the
Bengals could have done. He knewwhat everybody knew. Justin Jefferson is gonna
have such a high number, andthere's very few people in this league that
can claim they deserve anywhere near it. And you can argue rightfully that Chase's
(21:18):
production to this point does not deserveto match Justin Jefferson. Jefferson has been
otherworldly. We've never seen anything likeit in terms of that production. But
you know, I guess him,I guess guess you're talking about ceedee lamb.
I'm not in the same breath.Chase could be the only person can
say I probably could get something closeto that. So why wouldn't he sit
and wait for that number to beestablished? And then go from there.
(21:41):
He's a year behind and didn't haveto rush, so I don't. Yeah,
I think everybody assumed it was gonnago this way. Jamar is saying
that was just his speaking the truth. I mean, I don't think that
that was him spilling anything. HeHiggins got a four part piece from you,
Jamar will get how many. Iwas tempted. I tempted. I
have a whole other I do havea second part to that story that I
(22:03):
wanted to dive more into. ButI was like, I can't go doing
the parts again, Like, yecan't. Why not? I can't?
No, why not? Put there'sthe centerpiece of the off season. There
will be more written about it.I'm not titling it as a part series.
There will be more written about JamarChase. I want to. I
want to do a lot more onhow they can they can implement him to
play justin Jefferson in this offense.I do think that's a really interesting storyline
(22:27):
for this year. I wasn't gonnacall it part two. Okay, maybe
I'll do just for you so youmean that'll be well, that'd be great,
but that'll be a piece that's actuallyabout football. And not corrap not
not all the rest of it.Yeah, and speculations on numbers and markets
and caps and bowls so much.I actually do have some questions about football,
(22:52):
yes, and we'll get to themwhen we come back. Paul Danner
Junior, The Athletic dot Com TheGrowler Podcast. It is twenty eight minutes
away from four o'clock. Follow Paulon x at Paul Danner Junior. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports StationCincy three sixty with Tony Pike. Do
we want to move on? DoctorKeith Gory and Boston Elmore. I think
(23:12):
you should continue to let me keepgoing there, Cincy three sixty Tomorrow which
twelve News on ESPN fifteen thirty,Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. Well Lifetime power
train protection that guaranteed credit approval fromtheir family to yours for life. Kelseyshev
dot com begals had an OTA today. Sheldon Rankins was there. Yeah,
(23:33):
big news. Joe Burrow had theday off. Why was Sheldon not at
the other OTAs? Because it's voluntary, voluntary, He's older, he knows
better any any Jamar Chase News andthen the five minutes that we were away,
No, okay. I. Meanwhile, the Reds and Rockies again tonight
in Denver Cincinnati, looking for aseries win for the third time in fourth
(23:55):
series. They give the bald toFrankie montas Tyle block throws for Colorado.
No starting lineup out yet. Firstpitch tonight, eight forty on a seven
hundred WLW Blake Dunn has been calledup from Louisville and the team is optioned
down to Triple A Nick Martini PaulDander juniors. Here from the Athletic dot
Com. How many more Ellie takes? Like you have to have one a
(24:18):
new one every day? Is thatlike a thing that you have to be
doing right now? Is every day? We have to make a broad brush
statement about his future based on hisperformance from the evening. I've got a
new one later, Yeah, thatI think might be my last new one.
I don't know what's more difficult,Like if you have I talked to
soccer announcers about Lucho Acosta and Igo like, do you kind of run
(24:42):
out of superlatives? Do you runout of adjectives? We could do this
with Joe Burrow, right, likedo you just run out of things?
To say because he's just consistently great. Is that more difficult than talking about
Ellie de la Cruz and the Ellieroller coaster where for a month he looked
like the greatest baseball player of alltime and then the next month it looks
(25:03):
like he never played the sport before. I don't know what's more difficult.
No, it's it's so any ofthese young players where you're so counted on
to just pass the development stage andget no aim, get absolutely no pass
on it. You know, it'slike you're you're not allowed to have struggles
(25:27):
to develop if you just go back. I always love doing this, Like,
can we just go talk about historicallike people that have gone through the
same struggle where you're talk about baseball, football, whatever, where oh,
the first year or two there thisand then you see year three, you
typically see this jump at this point. Nobody gives time for that anymore,
Like nobody gives time for that.Like the idea of Ellie playing at the
(25:51):
level he did at that first monthand then having a bad month is something
that so many young players. That'sthe next step. Okay, now you're
seeing a month where he can doit well and then has a month off
and then and then you get theselonger streaks and then that that bad part
gets whittled down a little bit moreover time, and you either take that
jump or you don't. I mean, I always go back. Always think
(26:12):
about Todd Frasier, Right, hewas like twenty six and all of a
sudden it just clicks right, andhe's just hitting bombs and and he's this
beloved player and having these great seasons. And I'm not comparing the two,
but I'm just saying like it cantake a lot longer for some guys,
and he you, these guys wouldgo through at bat after at bat for
(26:33):
thousands of at bats, and theminers, yep, much less having to
come and go through this at thebig league level and be capable of having
a month like you at the bigleg level. It's just I hate,
now, this is the person whowas certainly accused of a lot of things
Jamar Chase's training camp as a rookie. But for that reason that experience really
(26:56):
cemented we just everyone needs to backoff in the constant analyzation of every day
and every week. As Okay,I've decided this now about a prospect,
a hot top prospect. You know, it's it's unfair. Yeah, it's
I mean, it's why I wishhe was on a better team. Because
(27:18):
the fact that they haven't been goodin quite a while, and the fact
that he is the central figure inthis large collection of dudes who are supposed
to make the Reds better, hestands out. I wish he was on
the sort of team that was sogood that he could be allowed to just
assimilate and he's going to be apiece, and he's going to be a
cog, but not everything has torevolve around him. This the way the
(27:41):
team is constructed right now, inlarge part because of the injuries it has
taken on a Ellie has to carrya larger load than he's capable of.
Dynamic, Yeah, and that justintensifies the scrutiny on him, which is
not fair to him. I wishhe was on a better team so his
struggles could not hurt the team andhis successes could only amplify it. That's
(28:03):
not the case. Last year wasso much easier to tolerate, you know,
the like questions about if he's goingto be the guy or just be
kind of a messy prospect because you'relike everyone was so excited about all the
other guys. You know, it'slike, oh, McLean and Steer and
Marte and and it's okay, andit just kind of blends. He's like,
oh, maybe that one won't panout. But now because they're out,
and because he has played levely has, it becomes so much more the
(28:26):
focal point and conversation piece every singleday. And it's just that stuff.
I mean, it can be exhausting, you can't because you take the fun
out of just enjoying watching him.I guess in a lot of ways.
Look it in the moment, itcan be frustrating, but you signed up
for that. Yeah, like yousigned up for that roller coaster. Uh,
And I'm enjoying it. And Istill feel like there have been more
(28:48):
highs than lows. But it's it'san interesting it's an interesting dynamic. And
I said this on the show yesterday. I think we're in this day and
age where people are addicted to beingright, and so I believe in our
mid are Reds fans, people whoidentify as Reds fans who want to be
right so bad they're secretly and maybeeven not so secretly rooting for him.
To fail. I hate that.I hate that, well, I mean
(29:11):
and like I love it when I'mwrong about something that can make me happy.
If Ellie de la Cruz is greatand you are out on him,
wouldn't you love to be wrong?And I think there's a you talk about
a minority, but a vocal one. I think there's a vocal minority that
is reveling in the fact that he'sstruggling now to throw it in the faces
of those of us who think he'sgoing to be great. Yeah, And
(29:34):
that's just part of that's part oftoday's day and age of the way sports
are looked at it. It's notsports every yes, he's looked at this
way. It's just how loud andabsurd can I be about my opinion and
just waiting for the first instant possibleto express it even louder if if it
(29:56):
looks like it may be right,and no account of if it was wrong
and thought and I that that whole, that whole part. It's kind of
it goes back to the Burrow conversation, like we don't have to freak out
about today. Guess what we'll findout next week. We'll watch in training
camp this whole thing is a longprocess that we should be judging when it
(30:19):
matters, and I think in whetherit's Burrow leading into week one or in
the middle of training camp, orEllie judging his whole season. And if
you see the big jump that youexpect to see by the time we get
into September, then I think thatto me is what you need. But
you're never you know, that's notwhat it is like. That's you're never
(30:41):
gonna You're gonna ever see patience.It's quarter to four Paul Danner Junior on
the Bengals at the Athletic dot comand the Growler Podcast on Twitter slash x
at Paul Danner Junior. A fewmore things to get to, including a
good piece in The Athletic about somethingthat I kind of hope doesn't happen.
Next on ESPN fifteen thirty cents atEyes Sports Station, the pickup Truck Christ
(31:02):
that's with Paul Taylor Junior from TheAthletic and the Growler Podcast. Joe Burrow
had today off. He did weleave it at that? That's it.
Nothing to see here. Next weekis a mandatory mini camp. Yeah,
what's interesting about next week? Giveme one or two things. I think
that you I you'll get the closesttaste to some of the training camp stuff,
(31:26):
a little bit more of a realseven on seven, eleven on eleven
trying to test people. Yeah,you know, not a lot, but
the little taste for which we don'tsee much of around around here this time
of year. And I think thatcan mean something for people like well for
(31:47):
Burrow, if you assuming he practicesand throws, obviously he's going to be
the centerpiece of judging every every throws. We just discussed in the last segment
whether you should or shouldn't, Butthat's part of it. People like Dax
Hill, some of the young players, Burton like a lot of it.
Where where are the rookies at?They've they've thrown a lot at these guys
(32:07):
and cycled new stuff through. Okay, let's redo the first week's stuff again
and we'll see where you're at.So when time you show up for training
camp you can truly be judged.Well, they have one chance before that
to kind of do the last kindof test on some of these rookies.
How much did they take in whereare they at with understanding everything? And
so you can get some of thatstuff next week. But I think it
(32:30):
gets this time of year, specificallywith this team, gets so overblown,
like none of this stuff is,in their eyes, truly changing much,
and it's just about setting a foundationfor what they do. In August,
a bunch of your colleagues at theAthletic Canvas people around the NFL about this
(32:53):
NFLPA proposal that would dramatically reshape theoffseason. We would basically get rid of
OTAs and then slap on to lateJune early July a ramp up to training
camp, which would effectively lengthen trainingcamp, so you'd have more time,
a longer stretch of uninterrupted time away, but you would basically be lengthening the
(33:15):
season. Is there anybody who's infavor of this. I'm yet to meet
them or talk to them. Imean, it's really hard to find somebody
that thinks this is a good idea. There's just there's so much advantage to
having that break where it currently is, for for players, for staff,
(33:42):
for anyone that works in the league, and that there's are the people are
that are affected by this, Okay, and and so the league needs the
time where everyone has summer, kidsare out of school, families. Do
players not have kids in school?Like? Is that not? Those people
don't matter? I mean that's partof this too. Ingreatied. Sure,
(34:04):
and guess what all this voluntary Guyscan choose to skip that too if they
want to and still have both.I mean, I just think there is
nobody that I've really found that thinksthat this will fly or is anything other
than some kind of a weird partof a bigger picture negotiation with this,
with the floating of the eighteenth gamething that Roger Goodell did and all that
(34:27):
off the field stuff that I knowpeople really love hearing about why you love
it's why you love sports. Yeah. Is Evan McPherson going to get a
contract extension this offseason? I thinkso he would be. He would be
a top candidate. I would thinkprobably one year left. Noah, Yeah,
he's like the one guy. AndI mean the template there's these Kicker
(34:50):
deals have been done. It's notover the top. They have money.
It would seem like an easy thingto do. Last year we saw I
want him to reset the Kicker market. Know he reset the Kicker market.
I'm obsessed with this. He deservesit. Let's put McPherson versus Tucker numbers
up on the screen. Right now, let's break it down. I want
to Kicker guarantees need to be atopic. I mean, I just come
(35:16):
on now, Yeah, Evan needsto hold out until he gets second year
kicker guarantees. Okay, I actuallyjust talked to Evan today about if he's
practicing his tackling really because of thenew role, the new rule in Kansas
City's like, look, Justin Reidmight be kicking something for us. Yeah.
I actually talked to Logan Wilson becausehe kicks every once in a while
(35:37):
in practice, like on Fridays.He he kicked in high school. I
was like, would you be theguy? Yes? And he was like,
I mean we joked about it hasn'tgotten to that point yet, but
you know you're gonna that is realthat the new kickoff is going to have
the safety valve potentially involved more often. Evan did specify he is not practicing
tackling at any point in the nearfuture. Okay, good, Okay,
(36:00):
So not counting on him, butI am really interested in the preseason,
but really, when the games begin, to see how this gets executed,
implemented, and how teams approach it. The Kansas City's got a lot of
run because of what they may dowith Justin Reid. But that's a really
fascinating storyline, and I'm excited they'redoing this because now the kickoff is an
(36:22):
actual play that I have to payattention to him. I am, I
love most fascinated with somebody like DarrenSimmons and especial teamers in general. They've
been they've been giving, they've beengiven just a blank slate. Yeah,
there's no technique, right, that'sbeen there's no history really outside of whatever
we're making of the XFL. Likethe athletes a little different here. It
can be a game changer, andso I think the way it looks in
(36:45):
the idea in these coaches heads,and the way it looks in preseason and
even in week one and two couldbe very different than what we start seeing,
where you could see by week ninethe whole league see stuff and is
changing their philosophy, you know,one hundred and eighty degrees because you're seeing
success with something that one team triedand another team had success with. So
(37:06):
it's it's a really fascinating thing.And I think the process of everyone that
you know, the people I talkto you about today are sort of like,
yeah, we're all kind of inthe brainstorming portion of the program of
like what if we did this,what if we did that? What type
of player do you need? Andit's that they need they need more bigger
players. They like smaller wiggle guysare going to be less a part of
the kickoff, the kickoff for turngame on the line because it's so much
(37:28):
more about you know, stacking andshedding one on one and stuff like that,
and the little guy isn't going tohave as much of a role.
Does that eliminate a receiver position onthe back of your roster? Does it
you keep extra tight ends? There'sthere is ramifications all over the place,
and that they're all every team iskind of weighing right now and kind of
starting for scratch. And we geta landing zone in the NFL. Love
landing zone. Love landing zone,man, the graphics landing zone could definitely
(37:52):
be a very sponsorable ground I justI mean, look, you cover the
sport as fans, we obsess over, but there are very casual fans for
whom they put the NFL away whenthe Super Bowl ends and they're gonna turn
on that first game and teams aregonna be lining up for the opening kickoff.
Oh boy, yeah, it's gonnabe it's it looks jarring, like
(38:13):
I think, like my wife,right yeah, like the first time we
sit down that first Thursday night gamethe NFL. She likes to watch football,
but she's not following rule changes,And so we turn that game on
that first Thursday. It's Ravens v. Chiefs, and she's gonna look at
me like, what on earth arethey doing? What is happening? I've
already boned up on how to explainit to her. It's gonna be terrific.
(38:35):
It's gonna take some time, itis, because it's gonna be takeings
to watching the preseason. I don'tknow. Give me, give me kickoff
returns man, Yes, give mekick off football plays. I'm all about
it. Do you think more teamswill use their good players on that play
instead of not using them like we'vehad? I think so. I think.
I think certainly early on as theytry to figure out what it is
(38:57):
and what it can be. Ithink because I think they're scared of it
too, right, Like, arewe gonna get burnt? On kickoff returns
over and over again. If wehave backups in there, they can't make
place. Yeah, it's it's there'sa lot of learning that's gonna happen.
It's gonna be a critical preseason forit, for sure. I can't wait.
I'm all about I'm excited. I'mall about it. All right,
next week you'll join us from aftermini camp. Yeah, I hope oh
(39:22):
Burrow takes a day off. Isay that note. We just we just
need him because it's I'm selfishly Yeah, looking at this, he just needs
to go out look totally normal nextweek because the worst case scenario is he
doesn't take part. And now we'vegot all summer until we get to July
twenty seventh for people to worry andspeculate, and then you'll see him in
(39:45):
the street and will be questioning didhe was he? Was he flexing his
wrist getting getting like a sandwich atthe deli? We're gonna. I don't
want to. I just can't.I can't. Paul Danner Junior, The
Athletic and The Growlar Podcast, thankyou, four o'clock, fifteen thirty.
Of course, I'm Christine Lacy,a lifetime suspension from Major League Baseball for
(40:07):
Padres infielder who took a Peter marcanollfor betting on the scot plays bets on
games in twenty twenty two and twentytwenty three when he was with the Pirates
organization. While commission Rob Manfred's gotconcerns with gambling, they're not enough to
end Baseball's partnerships with gambling operations andthe money made from them. ESPN MLB
insider Jeff Passing to me, ifyou're really that concerned that this is a
(40:30):
top priority of yours, then you'regoing to do everything you can, including
getting rid of partnerships with these companies. But the league has shown no inclination
to do that, and they're happyto throw the players onto the bus.
And I understand that because the playershave free will. Jeff Passen on Freddy
and Harry. San Francisco's Christian McCaffreyhas again reset the NFL running back market.
(40:52):
Signed a two year extension. ESPN'sAdam Schefter reports, averaging nineteen million
dollars a year. Receiver Brandon Ayuxikian extension absent from the start of mandatory
miniicamp. Today, receiver CD lamba no show for the start of Cowboys
Mini Caamp. He's looking for anextension as well. Hey, it's the
resident Super Bowl chap Chris Kennedy comingon Wednesday. As Mini caamps continue,
(41:15):
I'll give you my biggest story linesthat I'm paying attention to. It's U
Sport's been like six am Eastern righthere on ESPN Radio, ESPN two,
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